Behind the Drama: Texas Author Tom Lisanti & Cast Spill All!

Relive the bold ambition of Texas, the NBC soap that aimed to be daytime’s Dallas!

Author Tom Lisanti joined cast members Kin Shriner, Caryn Richman, John McCafferty, and Tom Wiggin to discuss his new book, Texas: An Oral History of Daytime TV’s Answer to Dallas.

The cast shared stories of working with the incomparable Beverlee McKinsey to summers in the Hamptons and behind-the-scenes tales with EPs Paul Rauch and Gail Kobe — this episode is packed with heartfelt memories and soap history gold.

Episode Transcript

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[Music]

(00:07):
Hi everybody, thank you for joining me in the locker room tonight. I'm Alan Locker.
Tonight we're diving into a slice of soap history with the soap history that
burned bright and fast. Texas NBC and Procter & Gamble's 1980 spin-off of
another world, build as daytime's answer to Dallas. Joining me is author Tom

(00:27):
LaSante who captures the wild ride of this ambitious series in his brand new book
Texas and oral history of daytime TVs answered a Dallas. If you're a fan of
daytime television you may know Tom's previous work. He's also the author of
Ryan's Hope and oral history of daytime's groundbreaking. So a favorite of mine

(00:47):
and a must read for any soap fan and we've got a fantastic lineup of Texas
cast members joining us this evening. Kim Schreiner who played Jeb Hampton is
best known to daytime fans as Scotty Baldwin on General Hospital. A role he
originated back in 1977. Karen Richmond who portrayed Elena Decker. Karen went

(01:10):
on to play Gidget in the New Gidget and appeared in numerous prime time
series. John McCafferty who played Billy Joe brought music, swagger and a lot of
heart to the canvas. He also enjoyed successes in Indi actor singer and performer
beyond daytime. Tom Wiggins who played Joe Foster later went on to memorable
bull rolls on another world guiding light and of course Kirk Anderson on as the

(01:34):
world turns and he is a familiar face to longtime daytime fans. We'll hear
their stories, their memories behind the scenes ups and downs and why Texas
still holds a special place in the hearts of so many fans. Please help me
welcome Tom, Ken, Karen, John and Tom to the locker room. Here we go. Hi everybody.

(02:00):
We're only 25 so I don't know that's at all possible but oh my god what a trip.
Well Karen let's start with you. Do you remember your audition for this show? I do. Oh

(02:21):
my gosh Ellen I had just moved back to LA from New York thinking that I was
going to try my hand at television and was about to give up to be honest. I
just felt like there wasn't a lot going on for me and I remember my agents
calling me about this soap opera Texas. I remember him saying that they're

(02:43):
shooting in New York and as I remember I don't know for you guys and Ken you
were a whole different thing but Tom so were you because you came in later but
for those of us that came in from the beginning it seemed to have been a long
process as I remember and then I remember the day that my agent said you got

(03:03):
the part of Elena Decker and you're going back to New York so definitely
that changed the projectory of what I was doing at the time. I probably would
not have continued at that point I don't think so. Well I'm gonna ask everybody
the same question but Tom LaSante who introduced you to Texas? How did you get

(03:25):
hooked on this job? I was in college I was a freshman I was working at a bank filing
mortgages and the mortgage vault was opposite the lunchroom and the ladies would
come down to watch the soaps but it was all ABC it was you know Ryan's hope at
12.30 then the one o'clock crowd would come to watch one life to lit all my

(03:47):
children to a clock it was one life to live and then they would leave the
chat TV on and then General Hospital would come on and then a renegade
join the staff she was an NBC person so she came down to a clock and she beat the
ABC people she watched another world and when they all left Channel 4 is kept on
and Texas popped up and I never liked Luke and Laura so I would get if I would

(04:14):
start it to watch Texas and if the ABC people were there and they left the
channel on I would get up and change General Hospital and turn it over to
Texas and I loved Iris I love Dennis Billy Joe Elena they they enthralled me
more so than General Hospital and that's how I started that's how I watched
Texas I love that John do you remember your audition for the part? There were a

(04:39):
few there was the first audition which I didn't think I did very well and
what and actually I was auditioning for Ricky Decker and it was supposed to be
that Billy Joe was blonde hair blue eyes and his wife was going to be Anita

(05:04):
which meant she was going to be Spanish and eventually they just switched I
turned out to be the one with the dark hair and she she was the one that was the
blonde but I remember is that the woman who test us and I didn't do a very good
job they didn't like anybody but as it turns out Paul Rouse came out and they

(05:29):
wanted to see everybody again and that was like okay I'm not gonna mess this up
this time you so it was like a gift you know really I knew the last audition
the you know for the taping for you know to send to the you know casting gods or
whatever was at the NBC studios and I remember that I said oh this could be a

(05:55):
big change in my life and I kind of walked around and I walked in on the Johnny
Carson set and I'm going this is you know pretty incredible and and the rest is
when I got the part it was like I called my mom and said I got a soap I got a
soap and you know it's a new soap called Texas and my mom goes well can't you get

(06:16):
on Ryan's hope that's what well they didn't give me a multiple choice mom
that's amazing so you that screen test was California and then you came to New
York yes after I got wild Tom Wigan when did you come into Texas and did you

(06:37):
have to audition for this part no actually I didn't I I was I was in my agent's
office really pissed off because I hadn't gotten work I just finished doing a
prime top starring in a prime time series called breaking away and unfortunately
it didn't go and we did eight episodes and and and it ended and I was really

(07:02):
frustrated because I'd go back to New York we shot it in Athens Georgia and I
been out in LA for a while and I came back to New York nothing was happening I
finally just marched up to my agent's office and said what's up you know come on
while I'm literally while I'm standing there are the phone rings and I think
it's I can't remember who who the casting director was but he he says hold on

(07:25):
one sec he looked at me he said do you want to do you want to do a soap do you
want to do a character on a soap and I said well what's the character what's the
soap he said it's a show called new so called Texas you're gonna be playing some
kind of I don't know some kind of kidnapper or something it's a limited time
series and I said what is it called what's the pay he told me I said sure I'm not

(07:46):
doing anything else let's go and so he said yeah I got Tom Wiggin here and
and he and he wants to do it and so that was it you know and it was of course
intended it was of course intended to be a non-contract for about I don't know
two to three weeks so I figure okay no no harm no foul I'll do it make a little
money and then we'll see see how things roll and that was your foray in today time

(08:12):
that was it I mean you know my you've heard the story before Alan but you know
my times got his soap stories of liking soaps I've got my story of being in
college and a new publication coming on to campus trying to hire students to
watch soaps and write synopsis for them and the name of this the name of the

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magazine was a little thing called soap opera digest this was in 1975 so I was
like and they were paying really good money or paying like 75 bucks a
synopsis which in 1975 for a college student was big time so I start doing it I
last three days and I'm so depressed watching these shows I fold them up I

(08:58):
said I can't do it I can't do this I cannot watch these things for a living and
so imagine my surprise when I did when I'm standing in my agents often you
want to do a soap I'm like uh oh so you know I wound up doing it not knowing what
to expect that's amazing Ken you had a role a Scotty Baldwin on General

(09:19):
Hospital and left GH to play Jeb what what was it about Jeb that drew you to
Texas what was it about Jeb that I liked yeah we you know why did you want to
you know leave GH and go to Texas well I didn't I made a major blunder I think

(09:42):
it's called I think it's called the police love and I backed it up I ran into a guy
at a TCM party Spencer Garrett and his father was Dick Hackencamp who was my
agent at the time that made this deal for me to go to New Texas and I said oh I have a

(10:09):
great story about your father because it's a good story I said so yeah no it's a
very good story but somehow he was an old Hollywood agent and he negotiated
this big fat deal for me to leave General Hospital and go to New York and do
Texas and at the time you know I had done three years on General Hospital and I
thought well you know maybe maybe there's something to be said about a New York

(10:33):
actor you know these New York actors were big at the time the Danero's everybody
was a New York actor so you know it was like well what do they know in New York
that we don't want Hollywood so turns out they don't own anything more than
anybody because I thought it would be fun to live in New York and since I you know

(11:02):
knew how to do it so I guess it was you know that's easy work you know and money
talks what money talks money yeah the whole thing but it was yeah it was a great time

(11:22):
for me for the year I was there I remember when Tom came on and I thought I've
got he's a young Steve McQueen he's gonna deal the thunder here and you know John
over there was always fun to work with you because we had fun and Karen you know
what the first weekend with you I broke my arm and that silly vice in the last we were

(11:45):
we were in the Hamptons yep yep that was that was an awful experience but I don't
think it was the first weekend but it was soon into it one thing we did have I
have to say and I think I speak for all of us we really had fun with each other
and I I'm guessing Tom you know Lissanti when you interviewed so many of us no

(12:09):
matter what we had to say about the soap and our experiences and the ups and
the downs and the backstage front stage whatever I and I don't like throwing
this out to you guys as well it was one of the most joyful like it was fun to
complain and it was just fun we were all young we were all doing our thing I

(12:31):
feel like the luckiest beginning actress on the planet having gotten the
experience of working with all of you and you know nothing but respect and
Ken knowing that you weren't all that happy to be there at times we still
laughed our behind-soft all the time and we did a lot of stuff together on camera

(12:54):
and you know we just played a lot and in that respect I think it was amazing but
boy there was a lot going on that I never knew about and listening to you all
tell your stories to it's somewhat fascinating to look backwards and hear what
was gone on but there was a lot of people are aged I mean between Rick Porter

(13:18):
and Ray Leona you know and all of those guys from another world that were
hanging around our set because we're all out in Brooklyn it was like there's a
lot of fun being to be had and and even this house that we were all gonna take in
the Hamptons for the summer that was the plan a bunch of actors were getting

(13:39):
this house I don't know well it was mixed up in that but it didn't work out for
me because I broke my arm the first weekend so but you know it was a fun ride
everybody did have a good time I'd say that yeah I didn't realize when you
went to Oakdale to as the world turns you were returning home to the same

(14:02):
studio well me yeah right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
I love that no it was another world there was another world no no no
wasn't as the world turns ended up there when he was on a return yeah yeah later
years later yeah oh really wow as I say he had to have a second tour duty going to

(14:28):
Brooklyn yeah Karen and John being there from the beginning and not having daytime
experience was it intimidating to both of you what was that like so and I'll let
you take it first I'm putting on my glasses so I can I was terrified because I

(14:50):
did not have a photographic memory so that was my fear is that I got to memorize
this stuff every night a lot a lot a lot of so that was the you know there's
anything terrifying about that that that would be it but I definitely this was a
wonderful a great adventure and I was you know I was I was hungry to do what I

(15:15):
love you know and it was a I read your forward you know Karen that for the book
and it's just it you just nailed it as how you know exactly how I felt about
life-changing event and I was grateful and I was gonna give a hundred and fifty
percent you know that's basically it and boy did you ever I mean no matter who I

(15:39):
taught to you know again I am the lucky recipient of having had the pleasure of
working with all three of you and I you know can sing your praises till the
cows come home and that's a little reference to Texas maybe but I will say I'm
such a comedian I'm here all week okay but working with John in particular we

(16:05):
had so much to do with each other for that entire time and your energy your
enthusiasm your commitment I always say in you helped me find my way I was a
god-awful actor walking on to that set in the beginning I watched some of that

(16:25):
old stuff and I just think wow you know but you grow and you're forced to grow
your throne into the lion's den and you you have to do it and you have to do it
quickly and I learned so much from all three of these gentlemen but John your
energy and your you know you were playing some really challenging stuff and boy

(16:49):
did you really commit to it and and help us all make that work you know I have to
say it was the part of Billy Joe was an absolute gift it was because of what he
went through and you know it and it was you know it's more difficult for other parts

(17:10):
when people are you know basically talking about other people or whatever but
Billy Joe was just such an opportunity for me to you know tear down sets or
we need to do and I you know it was it was it was a like I said it was a gift and I

(17:35):
got to use all my muscles and I got to use all the dimensions and emotions so
you know it was it was I knew right away I was so grateful for that part because
and as a villain you're the instigator everybody else is you know you're doing
stuff to them but you're the one and I loved it when I used to show up to the set

(17:56):
the crew as a joke would start booing me you know and I just oh boo you know so it
was fun I love that. Tom Lissanti you got to interview Joyce Carrington who
created Texas with her husband Bill what were your biggest takeaways from
speaking with her and and how exciting was that for you speaking with you know

(18:18):
the person who created the show. Well I was only gonna do the book if Joyce
participated because same thing with Ryan's hope I did that book when Paul
Mayor's daughters and Clara the blind's daughter all gave me the thumbs up and
unfortunately with Ryan's hope they were both passed away but Joyce was great
Joyce would email me everything she could remember we talked on the phone

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the things that surprised me the beginning was from Joyce was they were really
successful on searcher tomorrow they brought in the Centel family and they
they really got the ratings up they were going head to head to Ryan's hope and
they started to beat them and then they was stolen by Fred Silveman to come
over to NBC and and a Procter and Gamble to create a new show called Reunion and

(19:07):
it was set post Civil War and that's why they left CBS thinking they were
going to do this post Civil War soap opera but then NBC ran some type of
something similar to it in prime time and it got killed in the ratings and
then Silveman changed his mind and he said we're gonna do that we're gonna do
Dallas in daytime and we're gonna spin it off of another world and they chose

(19:32):
the William McKenzie's character Iris and her son Dennis to be the focal point
to shift over to Houston nobody told Beverly McKenzie about it until the last
second so she went into negotiations and she demanded money and billing and
everything and she sort of had them by the you know what and the cow towel to her

(19:53):
another interesting thing was the Decker family was the Decker family was
most Mexicans it was Texas it's 1980 the ranch hands so and Texas Mexicans a lot of
Mexicans work the ranches Silveman came back with the Bible with two notes on
and Joyce told me one was more young people and that's how Billy Joe and I think

(20:20):
Ricky and Alena came about and that's why they were cast in Los Angeles because
it was like the last minute casting and he said no Mexicans and so the
they changed the last name of Alena and her brothers Ricky and Ricky Decker
what was the other brothers name Max and the sister they kept their first

(20:44):
names but they changed the angle size the last name and they became Deckers and
so that was some of the surprising things that I learned from Joyce and the other
surprising thing is before before for poor Ken Jeb was not part of the Bible NBC
foisted them to write Jeb into the story as already it started so his character

(21:09):
never really they never really give him a good story so poor Ken came in there
sort of like you know halfway through and they had to like slip them in so they
they didn't really know what to do with them according to Patrick I interviewed
Patrick Mulkei who was one of the writers they never knew what to do with Ken but
they knew Jeb you know they had to have them on the show for the

(21:31):
General NBC was an NBC deal and so he kind of bopped around from all different
storylines and stuff but Joyce couldn't remember anything about Jeb Hampton
Ken did you feel that way that they didn't know what to do with Jeb?

(21:51):
here's I came there to sit in the Paul Rouse's office Paul Rouse shoved me
across the office and said you think you're a big star and I said no I'm just
here and he goes well we're not sure what to do with you but we got you so I'm

(22:14):
gonna put you on the phone with the writers right now so I thought well this is
a little weird and so I'm in Paul's office and you know he's you know staying
well go ahead come up with something and and I don't even know what happened but I
just know that that they're really like you said there was no Jeb and I don't

(22:37):
even know I'll tell you what I do know they told me a couple of weeks that I got
to learn how to play fire and rain James Taylor I took guitar lessons for six
weeks or four weeks when I miss something I had and I said to the guitar guy this

(22:57):
is not a work is it and now you really can't do it so they had a guy off camera
playing the poor player music but what am I gonna be a singing cowboy I just
can't do it and I still can't get it right down and can't tell you what I even had to do

(23:19):
with I know I was mixed up with with with Karen I know I was mixed up with
gathered Hicklin but I really don't I don't know what what was going on there
really I don't know what my story I love you I love you I love you I love you
I love you until Tom Tom kidnapped me and then I love Tom and I love I love

(23:47):
John after that but you know this is interesting I will have to interject here
because you know my career was a little bit affected by Fred Silver because the
show that I had done before Texas which was breaking away was I mean Fred Silver
man was trying to recapture the the glory days you know of I where was he

(24:09):
originally was it ABC or NBC I can't even see yeah I think he was a CBS so he he
did breaking away because he thought it was gonna be you know four guys in a
car sort of like almost like dukes of hazard and when it turned out to be a
really thoughtful kind of more meditated film make show he wouldn't give it a

(24:35):
chance because he was like this isn't what I signed up for we want boom boom boom
and now to hear that you know he goes to NBC he's got a deal and he's just sort of
he's just sort of trying to get stars and doesn't have a real place for them
doesn't surprise me because I have to say that's what we all felt on the show we
felt like there isn't a real strong mission here creatively and and that was

(25:02):
my situation I got there I'm you know I'm with Karen Karen you know Karen and I
get a we immediately hit it off just personally and professionally like okay
I'm getting that vibe and something in my head said huh the little I know about
soap operas is there about one thing there about romance so if some and I

(25:28):
hadn't even heard of Luke and Laura I didn't even know that that was basically the
same storyline right and and I didn't I hadn't heard about that but I just thought
you know if I can turn this relationship into something a little more
substantial romantically then maybe I'll stay longer than three weeks and so

(25:48):
Karen was down you know she was just she's the most giving actor you'll ever see
she just started giving it back and then we suddenly had we had what they call
chemistry and then the next thing you know the writers are noticing it and going
okay and they start writing it and then the whole thing snowballs but it was
that I mean that was the good news and the bad news about the show it was

(26:12):
malleable enough because they didn't have an ironclad vision I don't think I
think they were sort of trying to find their way but if you came up with something
they could work with boom they went with and and that was that benefited me I
don't it guess it didn't benefit kin that much but it benefited me that they

(26:32):
were willing to they were willing to go along with you know what I was doing and
what Karen and I wound up doing so it was and it was it it was an interesting
creative process on that show really was I couldn't agree more and I
and you know right back to you Tom in terms of that storyline I it was
heaven getting a chance to create that story with you and I say right back to

(26:59):
your generosity got me through every single day and our laughter but yeah we
were doing the same storyline as Luke and Laura practically right after if I
if I got that chronology right and it is true Michael Maloney who's a writer
for soap central told me that when you guys were on the run learning to ask you

(27:27):
mean like Luke and Laura did they do that on the air I think they did yeah yeah
yeah yeah they did they they basically I think they didn't what they did I think
what I mean we should probably go to the expert Tom was anti on this but
because he he's he's taking a look at all this but but I think that is what

(27:47):
happened what happened was they sort of went oh light bulb we got a we got a
Luke and Laura thing and we got the triangle for Luke and Laura who's now on our
show and so you know let's let's go with it and and again I didn't know anything
about that you know I had no idea about Luke and Laura I did start to watch Tony

(28:11):
I started to watch GH to see what people were talking about and I gotta say I I
loved Tony Geary and what he was doing he was a groundbreaking actor he broke
the mold of what you know of what people were doing on soaps in terms of
leading men he had humor he was he was saucy you know he was spicy he was irreverent

(28:37):
and and you know I was like that's good that ain't just regular soap opera that's
cool and in fact I kind of took some of that when I did Kirk Anderson on Ask the
World Turns because I thought he's sort of opened the door to unorthodox
leading you know unorthodox love intro male love interest in this medium and I

(29:01):
really respected that and then I got to talk to Kim Ken about you know some of
the behind the scene stuff at GH which was you know which was really cool to to
learn some of that backstory and how he fit into all that and it was you know it was
the most successful storyline in the history of day time you know what they had
going so just a little yeah and Ken while we're on general hospital the fans

(29:26):
would love to hear your memories of Denise Alexander who we lost earlier this
week what do you remember about Denise was he was the tough cookie because she'd
been on a lot of soaps and those actors had mastered the teleprompters and so

(29:47):
back in the day so she she was very good as the most those actors were using
those teleprompters and the young actors go the hell are they looking at and then it
that was she had a real skill for that but she was also you know a real because
she was playing Jeanne's mother and Scott he was so in love with Jeanne it kind of

(30:16):
translated that I was always kind of a little Eddie Haskell around her you know
so it's not always be you know I didn't really you know she was fun she was a great
great great she loved animals she loved you know life she was she was fun to work
with she was a lot of fun just like I said that those actors that could do those

(30:41):
promptures they were they were good that was a whole different breed of actors
they can with those the scrolls were those the scrolls on the floors at the
promptures you're talking about yeah yeah those I I couldn't believe it when I
saw I really saw that when I went on to another world and and yeah yeah

(31:05):
Connie for and what you couldn't do was what rookies like me would do they
look down at it and then they look up and look down what you what the pros did
like Connie Ford they look they see a cockroach walking across the floor and they
sort of lean back and they stare at and then just stare at it and then slowly get

(31:27):
their lines and look back up and you wouldn't know you thought they were just in
a reverie or something but it really did take some amazing skill I eventually
didn't even look at it they threw me off so badly I just said I guess I'm gonna have
memorize this stuff did you detect it? I was just gonna ask I have no recollection
of having telepromptial I don't think so I think the first time I saw it was on a

(31:49):
world Tina Johnson when I interviewed her she played Lurlene and she said she
remembers the cast being asked you guys want teleprompt as you also you voted
and you said no no telepromptial it was and in Beverly of course didn't need a
telepropter I know you all didn't work with Beverly much but what was it like

(32:15):
watching her master their craft of acting? I'll start this off just because as a
young very naive female on the show and I've since learned from Reading Tom's

(32:35):
book that the upstairs executives thought that the newer actors and younger
actors were not very good but I which really upset me now that I think
so far but okay you know she was like you should be you should be I mean come on we were

(32:56):
giving it our all I couldn't help it but anyway she was like the goddess you know
she would she would walk through the hallways and I don't even know she ever
looked at me to be honest I sort of not because she was high and mighty it's just
our storylines never overlap to be honest unless it was some sort of a party but

(33:18):
I thought she was this beautiful you know dignified regal the way she spoke the
way she carried herself and I don't even know how old she was you know
chronologically at that time but she seemed ageless and powerful to me and I

(33:39):
was just sort of stumbling all over myself so that was my impression of her I
didn't find her particularly warm and cuddly to be honest not that that was ever
asked of her we just didn't overlap I'm sure she would have been and I wish I
had gone to her and maybe asked her for more guidance at the time that I was

(34:01):
intimidated I mean she's a so-popig goddess you know so that was my
impression I don't know about anybody else yeah thanks yeah she basically scared
the hell out of me I mean I was like you know she was like this is not somebody to
be trifled with if I can you know if I if I if I get through this this day

(34:23):
without having her give me a sideways glance you know I'm good I'm well ahead of
the game well Tom that's a little that's a little crazy because you know then you
end up with Elizabeth Hubbard who I know we compare that to a very apt
comparison they were very much the same but you know what you learned from these

(34:44):
women same Connie Ford I you know and Irene Daley you know these all of these
people you know all of these veterans were veteran they'd done it all I mean
they'd done stage they'd done movies they'd done TV they'd done it all this was
this was just this is where they were now but they were all about how do we make

(35:08):
the bet who's doing what what do we want how do we make this seem great you know
that's what we're here to do and if you're not here to do that get out you know
we're not interested in playing around we're gonna take whatever words we like
and whatever words we don't like but we're gonna make this thing come alive and

(35:31):
you know it it was amazing to watch how because we saw the script and you'd see
the script and go oh Lord how are they what are they gonna do with that and then
the next thing you look up and it's like bam you know I'm saying whoa okay they
made that they made that thing work and it was that was a cool thing to watch
always but John I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm gonna say John has a funny story

(35:57):
about his one his big your big scene with Beverly did you tell me yes I just had a
very short scene and of course Billy Joe everybody thinks I killed the person I
was supposed to kill but I got drunk and and I killed the wrong one but anyway so
you know the you know the police are you know obviously you know they think

(36:23):
it's me and Beverly McKinsey comes in and suddenly says you know I'll pay the
bills or whatever because I I didn't know why she was doing it but you know
like I said I she didn't think she knew Billy Joe didn't kill she hit what she
knew that oh yeah she knew Billy Joe didn't kill her shoot her husband she thought it was

(36:47):
what's his name Jerry Lannings character oh that's right and anyway so she comes
and saves the day you know I'm there you know and and I'm with Neeta and and and
all of a sudden she says you know I'll take care of it I'm so oh thank you thank you
thank you very much or whatever and that's basically it and then when the scene was

(37:07):
over she goes she just makes a declaration over it says bathe him and send him to my room
what the bathe hasn't take a bath well it was a joke you know but it was like like like like the

(37:29):
scenes over and that's what she says that's funny yeah that's kind of funny
can you're in the jar Ken I know Ken your lights went out Karen David says I
first watched Karen on the new gadget then a very Brady Christmas and thanks to YouTube
Texas yeah Texas Lizlana David thank you that was my heart

(37:54):
see fans find these shows 45 you know years later I have a friend that I've known for years
and when I started to do the Texas book he came out of the closet about being a Texas
fan he started to sing Elena's songs to me over the phone and I told him about this he

(38:14):
wish it was his name is Sean Chang and he wishes it was a call and show because he wanted
to do a duet with oh I think I saw his post actually that was such a that was a
trippy part of our show too incorporating all the music in the middle of so
many other things that we were trying to find our way and clearly there was a

(38:36):
changing of the guards upstairs and and we half of us didn't know what we were
playing you know our storylines were changing daily not really but the singing was
an interesting element and I feel very grateful that I got to do that and I
loved how they incorporated it you know into the soap I thought that was you know

(38:58):
ambitious to be honest and yeah was that part of the audition did they know you could
both you could sing not not they did not know that I could sing I had started on
Broadway and musical theaters so they might I'm assuming somebody knew that

(39:19):
somewhere along the line but no I don't that was not part of the audition at all
it might have been so for Ricky Decker for oh my god my old brain how can I not
remember a hand Randy thank you for still working okay Randy Hamilton I think they
knew that he could sing he had a great voice he sounded like Bill Withers he

(39:42):
could he had a great Randy he was quite the showman but yeah I mean we it was
what a journey it was you know and it's only when you get to look back
and I remember John McHapardy over the summer last year left me a voicemail and it
was like so filled with energy saying oh my god god bless Tom LaSante we just

(40:05):
worth this amazing book and I'm reliving all of our memories about it and you
know our lives have gone on and on but when we get this opportunity and thank you
Tom and thank you Alan for letting us be together you know have the
opportunity to be in the same space and reminisce because there was so
much there and so much going on and we were all we were young we were it's just

(40:30):
it's an incredible chapter in all of our lives even even Kinshwinner's life
you know and it's not just yours who were in front it's the fans too you know
the show was such a short lived for a day time drama but there are you know

(40:50):
fans who have loved it ever since miss it and like David who are just
finding it today so it's really astounding to see something in the mom I just I
do do I do really remember that as Kinshwinner said and Karen is saying we

(41:11):
were we got we all got personally very close very quickly and it was Tom would you
say Tom would you say that was part of Brooklyn because yeah it was it was it was
it was it was for me well I had a good time in Athens Georgia make no doubt

(41:32):
make no mistake about that I mean that was that was fun being and being a
working actor making good money on this can this amazing campus you know at
University of Georgia when I did breaking away but but here I was with peers you
know I mean it was like and I knew people from theater and I knew people that I'd

(41:52):
struggled with coming up and it was but it was like it was like summer camp for
professional actors I mean it was just this explosion of energy and we were we
were all about the same age you know I mean we had we had Phil Clark the old man
at like 34 you know and and but we got very close very fast and we all got along

(42:17):
really well we had these two houses out in the Hamptons which were just beyond
outrageous oh my god I mean that was like you know it's a great we we all loved that
summer for one reason we survived you know and it was like outrageous but it's
like if you could draw it together when we were also like struggling actors and you

(42:41):
say what what what what would be what would be successful look like that would
that you know we show up to this place where people are paying us a good amount of
money to do what we love we're hanging out with each other we got tar beach on
the top of the bill to the studio and you know we're all getting sun we're going

(43:02):
out to the Hamptons on the weekends it was outrageous but we genuinely that's the first time
that I've ever heard I think Tunnel of Santa you have you of the group of actors
getting a house in the Hamptons like that I don't know that I've really oh people
look out of the egg but you know well from the Texas people I've learned about they all

(43:26):
told me about that the two houses in amaghan's it it was the you know the world house
and the Texas house but now my next book I'm doing about what was going on across the
whole way from you in another world so I'm interviewing the Europeans who who worked
on another world from 1978 82 and I heard about those two houses and amaghan's it

(43:47):
with the big party houses but then Judy McConnell and yeah pull cats they had a
house in East Hampton which or the older crowd would go to and it was more stayed
right right right right right right right right right right right right right right
right at house I think Laura Malone's in in Quagg which is sort of in between so you

(44:08):
would they Laura Malone told me they would all go if they wanted the party they would go
up to amaghan's it and yeah yeah stay up all night and drink and whatever and we were
crazy we were we were insane yeah youth was not wasted on the young let's just put it
that way and I bet you're all very glad social media didn't exist oh boy yeah we would

(44:32):
have been we would have been destroyed but I also remember nights especially with Kim by
the way in New York City yeah where we would be partying all night long in fact Ken and
I were at a club I think Zinnon the night that yeah right where do you remember these clubs
what the night that John Lennon was shot we were in standing in that right but we were there

(44:58):
we were there we were doing yep okay I'm glad you remember that but we would like roll
into work sometimes after being out all night and I'm not going to mention names Ken Shreiner
but you know we would sort of show up and groom ourselves a little bit and get into makeup

(45:25):
and and go do scenes when I think I mean you talking New York nineteen eight I mean that
time was just you know that was like Berlin in the 20s I mean that was like crazy time and
but it was it was a lot of fun if you were young and I mean hey Ken if you told did you tell Tom

(45:45):
LaSante your your mugging story did you tell him no you did Tom I put it under you yeah okay
that's one of it it's just one of it one of the great share please tell it to tell it to
tell it story no there was an actor and I forget who the actor was was on but he was getting

(46:08):
picked out anyway there there was a gang and they circled around me and I said oh brother
and hey look at me and say Scotty ball but give me give me your autograph so my friend thought
I was being you know mugged and I was just you know what what is your name exactly and so
I was just it was like a possible mugging turned into a fan event only in New York City

(46:37):
all the days yeah but as I was doing the book oh but the fourth person who told me about
Hurley he's I was like he's has to be a character in the book and I tracked down Steve Hurley who
was married to Barbara Rucker who played in he passed away I interviewed him and he's not he

(46:59):
told me stories and the book but the one thing I asked them I said did all these Texas people
pay or did you give them free drinks he's like oh no they all paid no one was getting free drinks yeah
you did probably he was the hottest spot on the east side everybody was there uh and did you speak
with him or did you yes I spoke with Steve he's in the book okay and he told he actually loved you

(47:27):
and he told stories about you coming out with Barbara and you went to the like he told the Burger King
story about you the girls the blinded counters with scream Scotty and the Kim running after you and
going to buy a rye land oh yeah there's there's also fire island not just the end that's right

(47:50):
there's there was perpetual there was perpetual party yeah really I don't know how other shows
experienced their time you know I know that for us it was you know a definitive period of time we
had a beginning and an end on this show we had an older contention but then the whole other

(48:14):
contention which is what we're referencing and it really wasn't really more a couple of special
time and I don't know if it's the same experience when you come on to a show that's already been going
on for 10 years and you drop in like we started together and if you weren't there from day one
even whenever you came in we were all just starting with each other we were starting that new

(48:38):
storyline we were starting that connection trying to figure out how to make it all work and
I just feel like it was such a special time maybe I'm just remembering all the good stuff but
do you guys are you left feeling that I mean Tom said he felt that from writing the book like
are you left with thinking about those days yeah with a lot of love I mean you said you were talking

(49:03):
I mean I absolutely feel that way and you know what I think about I mean I don't know exactly who
was working on where but you know in that building were some extremely competent and upstairs people
I mean Carsey Werner came out of that building you know and a few years later we're like the Cosby

(49:24):
show produced by Carsey what wait I'm mad at I know people you know and so there was a lot of
juice you know and you know Ray Leo that's across the hall Chris you know we have all these all these
compadrace who are there and there's a there was a lot of creative juice but we you know we played
hard we did work hard we worked very hard you know we weren't you know we weren't showing up messing

(49:50):
around and and you know it was we took you know we didn't take ourselves seriously but we took the
work seriously and and but we enjoyed ourselves and though I look back on that as a fairy you know
of course it blew up every stereotype I ever had about soap opera you know once I understood what
A how hard it is you know I mean Jen says it's easy because he was a pro by the time he got through

(50:16):
and he was you know but it's hard and I remember I just told my wife this I remember when I think I
was on Ask the World Turns or maybe it was another world hearing about Sammy Davis Jr.
Living his dream of being he went on one life to live I think and I think Carol Burnett went on one
life to live and I remember people and it went on all my job Carol is a huge on my children fan well

(50:43):
and I and I heard about Sammy Davis Jr.'s day on the set he had to retake eight times because he
couldn't handle the pressure of doing that medium and I'm thinking Sammy Davis Jr. Let's see let's
go back he's done Broadway he's done Vegas he's done Broadway he's done movies he's done TV he's

(51:06):
done everything you can do he gets on a soap set and can't do it he has to do it eight times you know
and that just lets me know there was a there's a unique pressure and a unique technique that we all
wound up learning to be able to do these pretty intense scenes five six page like theater links

(51:28):
scenes in one take in one take more often than not and you know that's what was kind of interesting
for me having come from primetime TV and Broadway this was a completely different animal you know
for me it was very cool creative people can Paul Roush and Gell Coby you had quite different

(51:52):
experiences from Thomas book working under each of them what what do you remember about Paul and Gell
do we lose Ken Ken can you hear us oh he's not there on mute I think you're on mute
I see little glimmers of him somewhere yeah I do too but I don't hear him

(52:20):
I see I see something going on John while playing I mean you said it earlier about playing a villain
how did you parlay playing a villain and into you know make him somewhat likeable and become one of
the show's most popular characters I don't think it was a plan as much as I wanted to just do

(52:47):
the best and whatever they gave me I interpreted I just knew I knew when like after Billy Joe hits his
wife I played it that I was truly truly sorry me and and then I loved doing comedy you know and

(53:09):
I thought of Billy Joe he thought even though he was in prison he thought he was a badass but he
wasn't a badass and he thought he was smart but he wasn't smart so he just bungled through everything
and just you know just sheer luck kept out of prison or whatever you know so but it had some very
heavy scenes too you know some some big issues you know when there was one scene where Nita was

(53:38):
just telling me look I've had enough of this or what and I'm really listening to her so for me
my job was just to make myself believe it at the time and the rest was up to the writing
as a viewer I mean I was in college 18 watching it and his character was such a badass I mean

(53:59):
he slapped his wife he pushed the lady down the stairs he assaulted Dawn Dawn but he had such
charisma and like he said he injected him with a little comedy that as a viewer at home I was like
how poor Billy Joe he's just misunderstood he's just misunderstood but he really was a down and
dirty villain under the quarantine when the quarantine got let go one of the first things the new

(54:22):
writer head writers Dorothy Perseure and Sam Rathcliffe did was lighten up Billy Joe because I think
they really thought he was getting too bad and he become too bad you usually dead or written off
the show and they didn't want to lose him so they come up I hated that they they castrated me you
know it was like I said it became the victim apologizing to everybody but I do have to tell you an

(54:45):
interesting fact you know Randy and I shared dresser rooms and whatever Randy was the romance and
and you know the sex symbol he would get pictures of naked girls you know and and I tell him
else I would see what and what I would get is male from old people literally saying Billy Joe if

(55:08):
you just find Jesus and for some reason I appeal to the older people but Randy got all the great
pics I'll take I wanted you to find your way but I'm not absolutely can I'm not sure if you heard

(55:29):
my question you had the pleasure of working with Paul Roush and Gell Coby and had very different
experiences will you share your memories with us yeah can you hear me we can oh yeah okay so Paul
Roush was cool he you know ever since he pushed me across the room I got along with Paul and

(55:52):
and all the actors would always tell me you know you should go to talk to Paul because he likes you
to change the scenes or something but then when Gell Coby came on she was a tough cookie
and she she was like she just thought I just wanted to get out of there go back to General

(56:13):
Hospital so I didn't really have a very good relationship with Gell Coby I don't even know how long
I was there with her but I love Paul Roush and I you know work for the Paul again years later and so
that Paul was great
did we have different experiences I'm sorry I just talked over everybody

(56:38):
no I was asking about everybody's experience with Paul because I worked with Paul a guiding light
Paul Paul was a scary character to walk into Paul's office I had no personally I had no
relationship with him I was terrified I was you know just I just wanted everyone to like me I just
wanted to make it through you know didn't want to get fired that was sort of my goal for the first

(57:01):
at least six months on that show so I had no relationship with him I had a better relationship with Gell
how about you guys yeah I had Paul Paul became a big fan of mine he cast me you know he tried to
give me a shot on a guiding light after I left world turns and then he cast me on another world

(57:24):
and so I always liked him yeah he's a hard guy he's kind of old school right you know
you know you can almost imagine a cigar and his you know in his mouth oh yeah he had a
smile yeah right so I mean Gell Gell was tougher because I kind of

(57:44):
I she got the worst of me and and in return I got the worst of her you know because I was fed up
with the way the writers were handling my character and I just had gotten to the point where you know
some of the stuff was getting really sloppy you know like remember that whole thing Karen where I

(58:08):
get I somebody shoots me like point blank and then and then I'm we're in a hay loft right and it's
like two days later and nobody's even told the makeup people what side the bandage needs to go on
you know I'm saying wait a minute I just got shot by a shot going point blank and now I'm I mean

(58:32):
I love Karen and I love having these love scenes romantic scenes with her but really would I be doing
this two days after getting shot you know I mean let's be realistic and it got sort of more out
there and I went to Gell and I didn't pull back I was like Gell this is ridiculous this is really
and it's shoddy and so I kind of gave it to her um and she gave it right back and eventually she was

(58:59):
like okay well you're so unhappy then I'm the adios and that's one even though I'd sign the contract
that was now a contract player we sort of mutually agreed to like I'm gonna go so you know hey look
what I've learned producing because they tried to do it in Europe and they couldn't do it producing

(59:22):
an hour's worth of drama for national television a day is a hairy proposition now you know
everybody's under stress everybody's doing the best they can it's an insane proposition right we're
gonna do 42 minutes of drama a day five days a week right and somehow make it all work and so it's

(59:49):
a really hard thing to do and she was under as much pressure as anybody else and and you know I
wasn't very gracious about that well well I think think about it that it was 45 years ago you did
Texas and Ken you know 45 years ago on the set of Texas in Brooklyn can you explain to these guys

(01:00:11):
how fast like general hospital is today compared to what Texas was like 45 years ago right you mean
how they shoot general hospital they shoot 130 pages a day you're like a soldier of fortune you go
out you go and and the horrible thing is that yeah there's an old thing about great older actors when

(01:00:35):
you know the old actors you complain about being in the past five o'clock but now there's no age
you could be there you could be stuck there at 8 30 at night with the with 50 pages of dialogue
floating around in your head and when they call item 54 to the stage you better deliver that
shit and get out there's don't there's don't take over it's like it so members are shot like like

(01:00:57):
factory it's a factory job now they just make wire hangers they just crank it out as fast as they can
so that's the trouble is that when we were there and there was actually thought given and takes
given and and we can do this better that's all gone now it's just you know you know just crank it out

(01:01:18):
yeah I saw some of that on guiding light like 10 years ago you know when I was on it for a short
stint they were doing it in these little cubicle size sets and it was just like no rehearsal I mean
I remember rehearsal remember the rehearsal you know when I remember we have rehearsal you know
we had we could work things out and I remember on the Asterole Tertans we had lots of rehearsal and

(01:01:42):
that's where we re-road everything we really did and it was and then you have camera blocking and
then you have a dress rehearsal and then you shoot it so Kim that blows my mind I mean that there's
nothing there's nothing of that today stand down that's rough yeah well thank you oh I'm so sorry we're
done I just had this again this sort of heartwarming thought about how much we trusted

(01:02:17):
each other because we had no choice like and when I hear Kim talk about how the shoot general hospital
that's insane but even for us once we were out on that floor and those cameras were rolling we didn't
get a lot of takes so we in that moment really relied on each other and I could never have asked or

(01:02:39):
wished for better comrades than the three of you and I'm forever ever grateful that's what I wanted to
say likewise and Tom for writing that book but yeah I'm telling for I think I've come to
see you know I have not had the pleasure yet of reading the Texas book and I will I read his

(01:02:59):
Ryan's hope book and I never watched a day of Ryan's home and I loved it it was so just incredible
to hear the stories and I can't wait to do the same with your book and I know the fans who
are watching tonight and who have read it are raving about it Tom so let's go do you keep doing

(01:03:22):
them my friend keep doing that another world well we'll do this again Tom Karen Kin John Tom thank you
so much for being here and spending this thank you Alan for having us hey Karen what Karen

(01:03:44):
does that mean I got a Frankenstein I got a Frankenstein score on my arm that fucking bike
you always remember me Ken
yeah see you again Jen everybody is great great catch you all right thank you thank you thank you
thank you bye bye everybody thank you to Tom LaSante for bringing everybody together John

(01:04:09):
McAfry Karen Richmond Kin Shriner and Tom Wigan and please everybody pick up a copy of Tom's book
Texas and oral history of daytime TV answered a Dallas it's available now where books are sold
if you haven't yet subscribed to my YouTube channel you can do so down below turn on the notifications
for reminders of all upcoming shows and if you like to stream audio versions just search the locker room

(01:04:33):
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