Chris Kluwe: Taking a Stand – Activism, Justice & Using Your Voice

Please listen to this compelling episode of The Locher Room featuring former NFL punter and outspoken activist Chris Kluwe.

Known for his unwavering commitment to social justice, Kluwe has consistently used his platform to advocate for marginalized communities. In this episode, we'll delve into Kluwe's February arrest during a peaceful protest against a MAGA-themed plaque in Huntington Beach, California. His courageous stand against what he perceives as harmful ideologies exemplifies the power of using one's voice to challenge injustice. We’ll also discuss the fallout from his activism, including how his protest cost him his job as a high school football coach. We’ll also revisit Kluwe’s impactful 2012 open letter, "They Won't Magically Turn You Into a Lustful Cockmonster," where he passionately defended marriage equality and called out discrimination.

This discussion will highlight the importance of standing up for equal rights and the enduring relevance of Kluwe’s message. Don't miss this unique opportunity to hear from Chris Kluwe as he shares his experiences and insights on activism, allyship, and the significance of taking a stand.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
[Music]

(00:07):
Hi everybody, happy to have you here with me this evening in the locker room. I'm Alan Locker.
And tonight's conversation is one you won't want to miss.
My guest has never shied away from speaking truth to power, whether on the football field, in the media, or in the streets.
From advocating for LGBTQ+ rights, for standing up against harmful ideologies, Chris Clouy has used his platform to push for justice no matter the cost.

(00:34):
Recently, his activism made headlines again after a peaceful protest in Huntington Beach led to his arrest and cost him his job as a high school football coach.
We'll also dive into that and revisit his powerful 2012 open letter and discuss so much more.
It is my pleasure to welcome Chris Clouy to the locker room.

(00:57):
Hey Chris. How's it going?
It's going well, thank you. I'm really looking forward to our conversation.
Before we dive into that recent headlines, I'd love to hear when and how did you first begin using your voice to speak up for things that matter to you that you truly believe in.

(01:19):
Yeah, so for me personally, until I was with the Vikings, I really started speaking out.
Before then, I'd always held opinions that we should treat people the way we want to be treated. We probably should oppress people.
I was never really like a college activist or out in the streets or anything like that.

(01:42):
One reason why is because I was playing football. So that took a couple of my time.
Yeah, no, it was pretty much when I was with the Vikings. A group called Minnesotans for Marriage Quality approached me and asked me if I'd be willing to help defeat the amendment in Minnesota that would have banned St. Sex Marriage.
I was thinking myself, I'm like, I have the platform to do this. I would want someone to speak out for me if the situation was reversed.

(02:06):
Yeah, I do want to help you out. I don't think states should be in shining discrimination in their constitutions.
Yeah, then it just kind of evolved from there.
Amazing. Thank you as somebody who is married. I very much appreciate it.
Thinking back to that time with the Vikings and when you started speaking and to what being arrested recently,

(02:35):
is there someone that you maybe model your activism after? Is there someone you admire that has done this and you try to emulate or...
Yeah, so I was a history and polycyme major. So I studied a broad array of topics.

(02:57):
And really for me, kind of the obvious ones, like Martin Luther King Jr. John Lewis Malcolm X, the people fighting for the suffragette to write to vote,
the students protesting during the Vietnam War. I mean, America has a very rich tradition of protesting and being civilly disobedient.
You can go all the way back to the founders, right? Like the Boston key party and then the Federalist papers. I mean, where you see the founders lay out their idea for what a government should look like.

(03:27):
And within that idea is the fact that if the government isn't treating its population correctly, well then the population should do something about that.
And it starts with peaceful civil disobedience. And obviously before that, you make your voice heard you vote.
If a government is not listening to its population, well then the next step is peaceful civil disobedience. Because it shows people that you care.

(03:49):
It shows people that this issue is so important to you that you are willing to break the law in order to make sure that they are paying attention.
What led you into history?
I originally went to college for computer science. And unfortunately at the time at UCLA, the computer science major was in the engineering department. So I had to pass an engineering level physics class to actually get into the major.

(04:14):
And I normally did really well in school. And that physics class was the first class in my life. I just did not understand. I couldn't make the math work.
I understand the basic concepts of physics. I just couldn't make the equations work. So I was like, well, I need to stay eligible. So I need to find a different major.

(04:36):
And my roommate at the time told me about there was a polypsi professor that gave open book open note tests. I'm like, oh this is amazing.
I read really fast. So I'll just read the book, you know, the night before the midterm in the final. And I only have to show up for two days of class. So I transferred over to polypsi, finished that degree in three years.

(04:57):
Still had two years of eligibility left. So I was like, oh, I got to keep taking classes. I can't keep playing football. And then I was like, well history is basically polypsi that's already happened. So I'll just go take history.
And yeah, I've got my history degree in two years. And yeah, I got double major. Well, that's incredible. You know, just listening to you speak the history definitely had an impact on you.

(05:21):
Oh, for sure. Yeah, it's like, well, because the other thing is that when you study history, you realize that technology changes civilizations change, you know, the world itself can change.
And if you and nature stays fairly constant, like we really don't act much differently than we did 2000 years ago, you know, 4000 years ago, we're social animals that tried to cluster together to create a better life for ourselves.

(05:48):
And we also have jerks who want to take power for themselves and tell other people what to do.
Like the technology and surroundings change, but that dynamic has pretty much stayed constant throughout the entirety of human history. And so, you know, you start looking at what happened in the past and how people interacted with each other.
And then you start seeing how it's happening again in modern times. And it's like history doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme a lot. So studying history is a really good way to figure out, okay, where are we going? You know, what are the potential consequences of our actions?

(06:22):
Incredible. I want to Vicki who is watching said, Chris, you have so much support here in Los Angeles. We appreciate all of your activism.
Oh, thank you, Vicki.
So let's talk on February 18th. You attended the Huntington Beach City Council meeting to protest a proposed plaque outside of the Central Library.
And a week before I think you also spoke at the Community and Library Services Commission meeting. Will you share for those who don't know why were you protesting and why did you end up getting arrested?

(06:54):
Right. Yeah. So this is totally like local small town city politics, right?
So Huntington Beach, I've been at the city council meetings for about two and a half years now. That's when they first started messing with the library.
And we have a council member, Gracie Bandermark, who initially this was two and a half years ago.
She wanted to ban certain books from the Children's and Teen section because she didn't like their content. She thought they were pornographic.

(07:20):
You know, the kids, they were depraved. Kids shouldn't be looking at them.
The books primarily were about LGBTQ issues. And so, you know, a lot of it was like learning how your body works. You know, how do I interact with another person?
And it's, first off, you can't have porn in the library because that's the librarian's job to make sure there's no porn in the library.
Second off, booksellers can't sell porn because it's illegal for them to do it.

(07:46):
So when a book is in the library, it's gone to several layers of bedding to get there.
Like they're just going to the liquor store picking up a copy of hustler and sliding into the kids section. Like that doesn't happen.
So anyway, so Gracie tries to ban these books. There's this huge community out there and I think it would be like, "No, that's a book ban. You can't do that."

(08:07):
So then the city council decided they were going to install a book advisory board.
You know, I forget their exact name for it, but it's basically this group of people that decides what content is appropriate in the library.
And if they deem something inappropriate, it goes into its own special little section and you have to ask for permission to see it.
And of course the community was like, "Well, that's just a book ban." Like you're still trying to ban books.

(08:29):
So another big community out there and that's when the first petition started.
So the petition was to get rid of this committee because like we didn't want it.
We raised over either 16 or 17,000 signatures for it. It's currently on a special election. I'll get to that in just a second coming up in June.
So that was the second thing they did. The third thing they did was they tried to privatize the library.

(08:53):
As you can imagine, the community was not very happy about that because the Huntington Beach Public Library is widely regarded like across the state as one of the crown jewels of like Huntington Beach and the surrounding area.
Like we get people from cities all around us coming to the library because it is a great library and it's beautiful. Like it's just a fantastic library.

(09:15):
So yeah, when they tried to privatize it, people were like, "Well, no, no, we don't want that at all." Like the library runs fine.
It's a minuscule portion of the city budget. Like we see why are you messing with the library.
So that was the second petition. We got over 16,000 signatures for that one. That is also in the special election.
Then the fourth thing they did, then this leads up to me getting arrested, was they brought this MAGA plaque that was going to be installed on the city library.

(09:42):
Ostensibly to celebrate the 50th year anniversary of the library. Now, I had several issues with the plaque.
The first one was that it was Ugly's Health. This proposed design was gross. And it was funny because at the library commission meeting, there were people who normally are like MAGA supporters who were just like, "No, this thing just looks bad."

(10:05):
Even your own people are telling you this thing is Ugly's Health. Maybe don't put it up. But the primary thing that pissed me off was the fact that it had a MAGA Acrostic.
It's like the central part of the design. And for a plaque that's supposed to be honoring the city library, when the MAGA Acrostic is in the largest font, and then the library name is in the smallest font, honoring the library might not be the message here.

(10:32):
So, yes, so I spoke out at that one along with a bunch of other people. I'd say it was over like 90% people against the plaque who were at that commission.
So, obviously we didn't like it. The commission rubber stamped it straight to the council. No debate, no nothing. No acknowledgement that the community didn't like it. Just said, "Nope, we're signing it to the council as is."
So, then the next week the city council had their meeting. I knew they were going to approve it 7-0 because that's what they do. That's just who they are. And I wanted to bring attention both to the fact that it's not okay to put this plaque on the library because the library is supposed to be an apolitical space.

(11:06):
Like, you know, it doesn't matter what slogans are on the plaque. There shouldn't be any slogans on the plaque. Like, a library is where anyone can go, check out a book, read, you know, enrich themselves. It's a public resource.
The second thing that maybe want to protest and engage in civil disobedience was that I saw what's happening in Huntington Beach as a microcosm of what's happening in our country as a whole.

(11:27):
So, our city council has made it very clear. They're not interested in listening to the community members who don't agree with their viewpoint. There's no debate. There's no consideration. There's no acknowledgement. They just do what they want to do regardless of who it hurts or what it costs us as a community.
And we're seeing that happen on the national level. We're seeing that happen with the Trump administration, with their gutting of our federal government, with the constant firing of federal employees who serve vital, vital jobs to make sure that you don't have metal shavings in your food or that, you know, your child's baby formula is not filled with rat poison.

(12:04):
These are important positions that don't garner a lot of attention because when they're doing their jobs, you just accept the fact that you have clean water and you have clean air. It's not something you really worry about. You probably going to have to start worrying about it.
So, anyway, so that was kind of the second point to the protest was to kind of show that, hey, this isn't just a Huntington Beach problem like this. This is a nation problem, writ small in our specific area.

(12:30):
Getting back to the special election that I mentioned previously about the two ballot measures. So the city council first tried to ignore the ballot measures. Realize they were going to run a foul of state law by doing so.
Then I'm, we're pretty sure they tried to run the election themselves because they passed this voter ID law in the last election.
But then they realized that doesn't go into effect until 2026. So they actually had to kick it back to the OCE register of voters. And so now they had three choices on how they could address these ballot conditions.

(13:02):
The first choice was they could just accept it. So get rid of the oversight board or the, you know, the judgment board, the bookbading board.
And if they wanted to privatize the library, it would go to a public vote. So the entire city would get to weigh it.
So option one, you just accept the measures, put them into play. Option two is you put it on the general election, which is taking place next year.

(13:23):
Cost of the city may be 300 grand. I think they cost it out like 300 to 400 grand. So it's going to cost some money, but there will be voter turnout because people generally turn out for general elections. And then, okay, everyone has a voice.
And I can see the reasoning behind putting it on, you know, on an actual election. You do want to make sure like everyone has their voice.
The third option, which is the one they went with was spend $1.4 million to have a special election in and off year three months away.

(13:48):
So that way voter turnout is depressed. They waste even more of our money. And then they can whip all their voters at the mega church. They all attend to come and try and defeat these petitions.
So that's how our city council operates.
Wow. When you went into the city council meeting, were you planning to do this, the civil disobedience?

(14:11):
Yeah, so it was in my mind. I was like 70 30 at the start. And then our current mayor, patterns made this big speech on like we insist on decorum.
And you know, we're going to crack the hammer down. You know anyone who doesn't respect to the time and so then.
And like this is a dude who never shows respect to anyone else. Like he'll berate people, he'll yell at people and like he's the kind of guy that demands respect from you.

(14:36):
He doesn't earn it.
And once I heard him say that, I was like, well, guess that makes up my mind.
I'm a bit of an oppositional, you know, a defiant person. And so yeah, is it. And it also made it clear that like, hey, they're already engaging with the community in an antagonistic way.
Like they've made it very clear. They don't want to listen to us. And it's not just me. Like you get the sense if you come to these city council meetings when people speak.

(15:04):
They're speaking because they know they want to have their voices heard, but there's this resigned frustration in how they talk because they know the council isn't listening.
And like a city council normally when people speak up and they have opposing viewpoints, the council will spend time actually debate, right?
Like they'll talk over the issue and be like, okay, these points were brought up, you know, let's address them. Let's figure out, you know, should we keep going ahead with what we're doing?

(15:27):
Or, you know, is there a valid concern by the community? I have never once heard this council debate anything.
Like they, they just ignore public comment and then they go and do what they want to do.
They also cut down our public comment time. We're supposed to get three minutes. Usually they drop it down to one minute because they complain that there's too many people.
I've been at meetings where there's been over 100 people and we got our three minutes. So it's again, it's all these small little details that show just the contempt they hold this community with the parts that they don't view as, you know, equal to them.

(15:58):
And that's not what a city council is supposed to be. A city council is supposed to be what's best for the city, right? Like when they run for office, there's no R or D next to their names.
Like you're supposed to represent the city. You represent the entire community. You don't just represent a part of the community. And it's very clear that they think they only represent a part of the community and that's fine with them.

(16:21):
During the, when you made your speech, you were talking because the plaque had MAGA on the plaque. Will you share your thoughts on what the MAGA movement is right now in your eyes and what it represents in 2025?
Yeah, so I called the MAGA movement explicitly a Nazi movement. And I was, I was very careful about making that consider that, that, you know, exact comparison because Nazi is a very loaded term, right? Like and it should be a loaded term.

(16:50):
Like that was a horrendous period during human history. But the fact remains is that everything that the MAGA movement has done has been the same things that the Nazis did.
And people need to remember that Nazis didn't start out with death camps. Like that was just the natural in stage of their goals. They started out by trying to erase people from existence, trans people first.

(17:13):
Guess who this administration is trying to get rid of trans people first, right? Then they're going to go after overfell. They've already said they want to go after overfell.
So they're going to try to get rid of same sex marriage. Then they're going to outlaw being gay or lesbian or bisexual or transgender. Like that's the next step. You can see that with them trying to repeal section 230, which is this gets a little technical.

(17:35):
But basically it's a statute that prevents internet providers from being sued for content that is on their platforms. So essentially when you post something online, you can't sue Blue Sky or Twitter if, you know, for the words that you put online or someone else puts online.
They're held immune from that. Basically they want to repeal it. So that way they can start suing these providers. And if someone says something illegal and they consider being gay to be illegal.

(18:01):
Then they can be like, well, no, we can't have that speech up there. Again, another attempt to erase people from existence. They're already talking about starting unnecessary wars.
Like, I mean, Trump talking about making Canada the 51st state. Canada is a sovereign nation. They have been our allies for over a hundred years. Like talking about taking Greenland. Greenland is a sovereign nation.

(18:27):
You don't just get to take these things. Like even if you think it will make the economy better, Hitler thought taking the student land in Poland and France would make the economy better. So he went and did it.
It's like, that's what Nazis do. They don't care about rules. They don't care about laws. They just want to do what they want to do. And so yeah, it was a very deliberate comparison.

(18:49):
And I think the line that really resonated with a lot of people was that like I said, you may have replaced the swastika with a red hat, but it's still the same thing.
That's your chosen symbol. We know what it stands for and what it stands for is explicitly Nazism.
I mean, as a Jewish person, as a gay person watching the president retweet the pink triangle this week.

(19:16):
I get it. And I understand deeply what this implies and don't really fully disagree.
I know many people were upset that you used that term painted a broad stroke. But I don't believe all who voted for the president understand the similarities.

(19:43):
When you share the history lesson, you shared on CNN about.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, because this is something I've also been trying to make people aware of is that like when Hitler got elected, a lot of good German people voted for Adolf Hitler to go into power because they thought he had their best interests in mind.
Like they thought he was going to fix their economy because because at the time, you know, Germany, Germany was crumbling under the way to reparations. Like they got hit with punitive reparations for more or more one.

(20:10):
The country was in shambles. People didn't really have an economic future. So they're like, you know, we need someone who's going to make our lives worth living again. And they thought Hitler was going to be that guy. Right.
So they didn't really realize what they were signing on for.
Until all of a sudden, why are all my neighbors disappearing? Why are we at war with these countries? Right.

(20:31):
So I think there are a lot of good Americans who voted for Donald Trump because they think he has their best interests in mind. But if you know anything about Donald Trump, you know, he only has his own interests in mind.
Like I have never seen him perform a selfless act. Like not once. I mean, this is a guy who always makes it about him and him alone.

(20:52):
And so yeah, it's he is the leader of the Republican Party at this moment. It's very clear that he holds all the power in that relationship. And I mean, let's also not get it twisted.
The Republican Congress has abdicated their duties. Like the whole point of Congress existing is to be a co-equal branch of power. So that way they can check a runaway executive.

(21:15):
Because the executive can make all the executive orders at once. But if Congress says, nope, we're not paying for any of it, it becomes really hard to carry out your executive orders. Like that's why our founders made the system that way.
And you know, I'd say the judicial branch is really the only one kind of upholding the constitution right now. But even that's going to be suspect when some of these cases start reaching the Supreme Court.

(21:36):
Because who knows how the Supreme Court is going to come down. I mean, they already declared the president is essentially a king and I'm afraid that he's actually ruling.
But yeah, it's essentially by putting a crown on his own head.
Yes, declaring himself a king. And that's as Americans, regardless of your political affiliation, we have to be able to agree on the fact that being an American means you do not support a king.

(22:00):
Like you can't wave an American flag and support a guy with a crown on his head. Those two things cannot coexist. They are fundamentally opposed to each other.
And you also said, 1930s people wanted to support Hitler, believing he had their best interests. And then a lot of those people in 1946 regretted that decision.

(22:24):
Yeah, I know lots of regrets. Like, and again, I don't want a lot of Americans to have those regrets.
I don't want a lot of Americans to die due to policies that this administration is going to put into place. I mean, earlier today, they're talking about invoking the War Time Powers Act to start engaging in mass deportations.
That's how we ended up with the internment camps for Japanese people during World War II. Like that was literally the act that they use.

(22:48):
And so again, it's very clear that this administration does not care about the constitution. They don't care about America itself.
They only care about their own political power and how to accumulate more of it and then just grabbing whatever they can. That's not the basis of the sound government.
I couldn't agree more. James 75 says sadly in the current government, legal protests are not tolerated.

(23:16):
Get ready for another repeat of what happened to DC protesters in 2020. Chris is an inspiration and I am grateful.
I assume you have people, you know, just like I do, who voted for Donald Trump.
Do you, because you definitely have the smarts, the knowledge, do you engage in trying to educate them?

(23:49):
Because that is something I do as much as I oppose and I get angry and I will share things. I haven't fully engaged in a conversation with people close to me fully who voted for him.
So my parents are both small sea conservatives. My dad worked in the oil industry. My mom was anesthesiologist. That was back when HMOs first became a thing.

(24:15):
So the medical industry kind of got screwed when that happened. But yeah, I would get into screaming matches with them back in 2016.
I don't know how to explain it to you in any other way. I am pretty sure they voted independent or libertarian for that election.
Now I had a conversation with my dad the other day. He is now fully like no, this dude is bad, he is bad news.

(24:42):
He had a conversation with his brother, my uncle, who watches entirely too much Fox News. But yeah, my dad had a conversation with him explaining this is what maggot stands for. It is not okay to be on the side of maggot.
So yeah, I think he is listening. And I think there are people out there who we can reach who really are small sea conservatives. They just want lower taxes. They don't want houses in their backyards.

(25:08):
We can agree to disagree on that. We can have debates about what the budget should look like, what housing projects should look like, what our level of involvement in foreign affairs should look like. Those are all debatable concepts.
What we cannot have a debate about is whether or not a group of people are allowed to exist. Because that is the first step towards genocide.
And that debate was settled back in the 1940s. Like a lot of people died to settle that debate. I would prefer not to relitigate it because it means a lot more people will die. And I would prefer to avoid that.

(25:42):
There is so much whitewashing of history. People who deny the Holocaust basically Trump has wiped the T for transgender out of the LGBTQ lexicon.
It has taken off plaques. It has taken off websites. It is insane what they are doing to different communities.

(26:07):
And today I think they cut pancreatic cancer research. One of the number one cancer killers. I lost my cousin two years ago. 62 years old basically.
Harval.
It is crazy because they are declaring war on basic science.

(26:30):
These are medical issues that we need to address. These are scientific studies that have long term implications. And they are just like, no we are shutting it all down.
And it is going to cause so much harm over the next five to ten years. Because those are things you easily bring back.
When you realize you made a mistake by getting rid of all the scientists, you don't just flip a switch and they come back in the studies resume. A lot of these people won't work in federal government.

(27:02):
Why would they? They got betrayed. A lot of these studies require continuous observations. Well that is out the window now.
And that is not even going into our natural resources. They are shutting down the park services. Good luck going to the national parks this summer. There is not going to be anyone there.
Hope you don't fall off a cliff or get eaten by a bear. No one is coming to save you.

(27:24):
It is just a pure contempt for this country and for the public of this country.
These cuts, they don't affect the wealthy. They don't affect the older rich. They can do whatever they want. These cuts affect us. They affect everyday Americans who want to go to a park, who want to have cancer research and hopefully solve, who want to not have lead in their paint.

(27:49):
These are issues that will affect you.
100%. Amelia says I have lived in Huntington Beach my whole life. Many young people in Huntington Beach don't seem to know or care about what is going on with our city.
How do you think we can get more young people involved?
I know you spoke at a rally the first week of March, March second, and there were some young people and you were quite happy to see them there. What would you say to Amelia about to get more young people involved?

(28:23):
We have to give them a reason to want to get involved. I fully understand the dissatisfaction from the younger generation because our democratic elected leadership has been in office since I was a kid.
These are people who they have had their time. And empirically what they've done hasn't worked. We can just call it right now.

(28:47):
What you did didn't work because it ended up with Donald Trump. So time for you to go. Let's let a new generation take over and maybe start trying to fix things.
That's the first thing we have to do is we have to give them role models that they want to emulate because if I was a young person and I saw Chuck Schumer betraying us, if I saw Hakeem Jeffries betraying us and refusing to fight, if I saw Nancy Pelosi pushing out AOC in order to make room for an 87 year old,

(29:15):
why would I get involved in politics? Why would I care? This isn't a party that cares about me. Why should I care about them?
That's going to be a really big hurdle is giving young people those role models. One way we can do it is getting them involved at the local level, getting them involved in a grassroots level.
So like local indivisible chapters, the 505-01 protests are another good way, Tesla takedowns, those protests are another good way. Just to get people used to the idea of making their voices heard and getting them used to the idea that what happens out in the broader world will affect their everyday life.

(29:48):
Because then once we get them to understand that, we can get them to understand, "Hey, even if you think your vote doesn't matter, it's only one vote." It really does matter. When you show up in vote, it really does make a difference because if all of us do that, then we can affect change.
And it's very hard to affect change in a country when half the population didn't vote in the last election. That makes it really difficult to get things done.

(30:13):
It's so true. I mean, you need to get out there and be engaged. And I've found it difficult after the election. Like I've tuned out the news for you, Chris. Where do you look for the facts? Because as we know, there is so much misinformation.
So I'm curious. Yeah, it's insane. We're living in a post-truth society. Like we are literally living in a society where propaganda is nonstop on our airwaves and our social media. I mean, Fox News, obviously, OANN, Newsmax, Facebook, X/Twitter, which is just purely a Nazi bar at this point.

(30:55):
So yeah, for me personally, I'm on Blue Sky because it's a decentralized program that still feels like Old Twitter and a lot.
All the people who made Twitter like weird and cool have pretty much migrated to Blue Sky at this point. So please join Blue Sky. There are a lot of really interesting people on there. And there's no algorithm.
Like Blue Sky does not push any content. You get who you follow. And so the way I get by news is I find people that I can trust. Like I find people who are journalists, who care about issues. And I know aren't going to spread disinformation or misinformation.

(31:29):
And then I see what they're interested in. I see what's important to them. And then if they happen to put me on to someone else, that I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, you're engaged in an issue that I'm interested in, then I'll follow that person.
Because again, that's what we want from our news is we want to know that we can trust what's being told to us. And we want to know things that impact us.

(31:50):
And so Blue Sky is very good. Hopefully it continues getting better and that more and more people join. Because as we've seen, allowing a billionaire to run a social media platform just turns it into a propaganda tool.
And it doesn't matter if it's something like Twitter or the New York Times or the Washington Post, once a billionaire takes over, it becomes their toy. It's no longer a new source. You can't trust it, which is unfortunate because some of these institutions are storied institutions. But yeah, I don't trust the New York Times anymore.

(32:20):
I refuse to do an interview with them because they bear responsibility for what has happened. They deliberately shaped their coverage to help get Trump into office and they have refused to acknowledge that.
Obviously Washington Post, but there are recent decisions with their editorial board.
Yeah.
I mean, like it's again, it's propaganda. Fox News is at least blatant about it.

(32:41):
You know what you're getting with Fox News.
Yeah. So yeah, so I would say if you want to find out the stuff that matters, Blue Sky is good. Find sources you can trust that are engaged and the things that you want to know about.
And on the local level, go attend your city council meetings. Like if you care about what's happening in your local area, the other people who care will be at the city council meetings.

(33:04):
They will be able to help you get information and local resources. Like that's the best place to start.
So interesting and I didn't realize that about Blue Sky that it wasn't based on an algorithm. I love that because I totally shut down Twitter.
Amelia, who asked the question about Huntington Beach is 23 years old and says, I want to see more people my age getting involved.

(33:30):
And she said, thank you for answering so thoughtfully. I didn't realize she was 23 when she asked that question.
So that's actually really nice to see that she's watching and engaged. So that yeah, that's when we need more people like Amelia. Like we need I actually did a talk at UC Irvine couple a couple of nights ago.
And you know, it was cool. It was for the local democratic club. And I'm like, it is great to see young people who are invested in what's going on.

(33:54):
Because I know when I was young, I wasn't that invested. And like, I wish I had been better right now.
Yeah, correct. I mean, same. I wish I follow, you know, sadly, and I maybe because my parents were Holocaust survivors, I really didn't engage in history or social studies.
It wasn't my thing. And maybe it's for, you know, for some other reason, but I, you know, there's so much I wish I knew and could articulate.

(34:23):
That's why I don't feel as comfortable as someone like yourself to have that conversation. But I can see with my own eyes the damage that, you know, this administration is doing, you know, it doesn't.
The genius for that. Right. And that's also why I say like, like show up to your local city council meetings, right.
And I'll make those connections show up to your local Tesla take down protest because you'll meet a whole bunch of people there and there will be young people there. There will be older people there.

(34:50):
Like I went to a Tesla take down in Long Beach and there is a dude there who had protested against the Vietnam war. And I was like, respect.
Like your, your geez. Like, thank you.
And so, yeah, like that's even just showing up to something like that. You don't even necessarily have to bring a sign. You don't have to speak. Just be there. And you'll realize there are so many people out there that are like you that are tired of the way that things are going and want to do something about it.

(35:19):
And that's, that's where everything starts is finding where those people are learning to connect with them. And then we go.
Wow. Wow. Wow. Well, we didn't discuss, you know, your peaceful protest unfortunately led to your dismissal as a high school football coach. Did that come as a surprise to you?

(35:41):
I knew it was a potential consequence, but I had hoped the school would be braver. And I think it highlights something that we're seeing across the country right now with with our academic institutions and our institutions of higher learning.
And it's that they cracked down on protesters during the Gaza protests. And when people ask, well, why aren't there student protests? Well, guess what? You made it very clear that you were going to send kids to jail and try to deport people.

(36:06):
So yeah, like if institutions aren't going to protect their students or their employees, I mean, there have been other teachers that have been fired for speaking out.
You know, there's been a bunch of them. It's one of the for as much as the right says that they hate cancel culture like they love canceling people. They do it all the time. It's one of their favorite weapons.
So yeah, like we can't we can't crack down on protesters and then act surprised when people are protesting, especially young people. And that starts with those administrations.

(36:35):
Like you don't cow toe to a bully and expect things to go your way. Like that never works. You can't appease a dictator.
Like a chamberlain showed that didn't work. And so we need to stand up. We need our leaders to stand up and stay firm and say, you know what?
This might cost me politically. This might be unpopular, but it's the right thing to do. So I'm going to do it.

(37:01):
Well, you you even said this. I think it was seen and I'm or one of the interviews. I mean, you know, where are our democratic leaders?
And speaking up, you know, that exactly like I seem I've seen a couple in the recent days, but something that literally just happened that really pissed me off is freaking Chuck Schumer saying he's going to vote for closure on the spending bill that the Republicans are trying to pass.

(37:27):
Because they need democratic help to pass this bill. And unfortunately, we have democratic leadership that does not understand they are in an existential fight for democracy.
Like you you cannot have bipartisanship when the other party is trying to erase you from existence. Like there is no reason to cooperate.

(37:50):
There is no reason to give them anything and it's infuriating as a democratic voter to see leadership not do anything.
I mean, it's it feels like when John Lewis died, the party just kind of like was like, well, guess we can't do good trouble anymore.
It's like, no, no, like take up the mantle.

(38:12):
And you heard what Trump said about Schumer yesterday.
Yeah, I didn't get the exact words, but he's no longer Jewish. He's a Palestinian.
Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, that's one of his favorite things. He loves to be little people.
He loves to try to erase their identities. And again, it's it's he's trying to negate the very humanity of someone, which is why I equated mega to a Nazi movement.

(38:37):
Because that is also what the Nazis did, right? They call Jews vermin. They called them filth. Right? I mean, you see that in musk's language. Like the tweets that he posts, he's literally using Nazi language.
Like it's not it's not even.
Well, he's also used, you know, his salute.
Yeah, I mean, it's it's a Nazi salute. Like if you ever have to ask the question, did my salute look like a Nazi salute?

(39:03):
You just gave a Nazi salute. There's no like a gray area there. And there's no need to do that. If that's not your intent. Right?
Yeah, I mean, nobody is doing a Nazi salute by accident. Yeah, it's not a normal hand gesture. Right. Yeah, 100%.

(39:25):
You have two children. What do they think of your activism? And are they somewhat politically active?
Yeah, so they're not super politically active because they're ones in high school, ones in middle school. So they're they're more concerned with like schooling and you know, being a kid.
And it's not something that I want to force on them. Like I'll invite them to go along with me to, you know, rallies and protests or whatever.

(39:49):
But it's not like you have to come with me as more like, hey, if you want to come, like that's cool. If not, like that's fine. Like I'm, you know, I'm the one that's out there.
My younger one actually did come with me to the Tesla Pro, the Tesla take down protests and Long Beach. And you know, she had a good time. Like it was, it was a good crowd.
But yeah, it's it's something where they're they're they're proud of me for doing it. Like they've had their friends come up and say, hey, you're dead.

(40:10):
I love that he's doing that. Like he's you know, it's that's so cool. And I mean, that's that's a good sign. And I think it's it's unfortunate that we expect so much from the younger generation.
But we're the ones who have caused the problem, right?
Donald Trump is not a 16 year old fall. Donald Trump is a white man and white woman's fault. Like we have some cleaning up to do. And so yeah, it's it's I would hope that you know they're getting the right things from from my political activism.

(40:43):
But same time I also understand there are a lot of people who don't want to be politically active. You know, they don't they don't feel comfortable doing it. And and I under and I get that like I I fully do get that.
The only thing I'll say is please show up and vote. Like even if you don't want to go protest, even if you don't want to be politically inclined, you still got to vote.
Like you because it will affect you. Like even even if it seems like these are national issues, everything starts at the local level. So you have to care about your local issues. And then you have to go vote for people who will help you.

(41:13):
So true, but you know, you're saying a great example for your daughters, you're actually, I mean, fighting for their future more, you know, more than yours and mine. I mean, you know, we're we're on the older, you know, I mean, I'm much.
Yeah, you know, I mean, you really are fighting for their future and survival. Darren says appreciate the work you've done, Chris and the voice you've given for many years now.

(41:40):
Thank you, Darren. Appreciate that.
Will you take us back to the 2012 and you wrote to Maryland State delegate, Emmett Seaburn's junior.
Will you share what happened, what drove you to write the open letter that got quite a bit of attention.
Those watching, if you didn't read Chris's letter, it is on YouTube. I put the link up so you can read it after the show.

(42:06):
Chris, there's a lot of swearing. Just be warned. Yeah. Well, I'm going to read a little.
So so basically, I've been that summer, I've been approached by a group called Minnesotans for Marriage Quality who would ask me, hey, you know, do you mind like speaking out against this amendment that they're trying to put in the state constitution?
It would have banned same sex marriage in the state. It was the same amendment that had been passing in other states. I think it had previously passed on like 27 or 28 other states.

(42:33):
And so when they came to me, I was like, I thought about it. I was like, yeah, you know what, I think I think I would like to help you because I don't think a state should be enshrining discrimination into its constitution.
And if I was ever in the situation where someone had a platform and I wanted them to speak for me, well, I would want them to do that.
And I'm the one with the platform, so I'm the one that has to speak. Otherwise, you know, that equation just does work.

(42:55):
So yeah, so initially it was just I made some appearances. I did some like local radio spots. And then I saw this letter from, it was an open letter from Delegate Burns to the Ravens where he was telling the ownership and leadership of the team that one of their players, Brendan, I am the dayho, needed to stop speaking out on gay rights.
And so I saw that and I was like, okay, I got two problems with this. The first one is as an elected official, you cannot tell someone to stop talking on official state stationery.

(43:27):
Like that is clear violation of the first amendment. Like you really just can't do that.
My second issue is why do you care gay people getting married will not affect your life in the slightest? They're not going to make you get gay married. Like that's not what's going to happen.
It's people who want to be recognized for who they are and enjoy the same legal and civil protections that every other taxpayer American citizen gets to enjoy.

(43:57):
So yeah, so I wrote a scathing letter with some very creative swearing at it and I went a little viral.
It certainly did, but I want to read a few lines and you articulated this so well. And as someone like I said, who's gay and who will celebrate my 12th wedding anniversary in April, I can, you know, I appreciate you for doing that.

(44:21):
So this is what you said I can assure you that gay people getting married will have zero effect on your life. They won't come into your house and steal your children. They won't magically turn you into a lustful cock monster.
They won't even overthrow the government in an orgy of hedonistic debauchery because all of a sudden they have the same legal rights as the other 90% of our population.

(44:43):
Right, like you said earlier, Social Security benefits child tax credits, family and medical leave to take care of loved ones and co-bere health care for spouses and children. Bravo on those words. Bravo.
What was the reaction from the LGBTQ+ community? What do you remember? It was 2012. Right. Yeah, it was wildly enthusiastic.

(45:07):
It was all of a sudden people were like, holy crap, that letter was amazing. I got to be the grand marshal at the Minisota Pride parade, which was really cool.
I wore a t-shirt. It was too small. So there's quite a few shots showing like plumbers crack. I was sitting in the back of his car. I was like, what? We're in a long journey.
It was a long place for that Chris. Let me tell you. It was a lot of really good feedback. The thing was, it's very similar to now where people say thank you for saying something.

(45:42):
Thank you for speaking up and speaking for other people. One thing I do want to point out that is actually really important is that the attention and everything that's happening right now is almost one to one identical as to what I was getting back to.
The thing that is different and it is a very important thing is that back then it still felt we were operating within the bounds of the American political system. Right.
We had two opposing sides. Each one was going to present their views. It would come to a vote and then we would abide by the vote.

(46:08):
Now it feels like one side is America and the other side wants to be something else.
That's a scary difference because if we can't come together and agree that we are Americans, well then it doesn't matter what we call our country. It's not going to be America anymore.
I really hope people do get that sense of urgency in that. We are in a constitutional crisis. We are in an existential threat to our democracy.

(46:37):
We have to be aware of that and we have to be ready to fight and we have to make our elected officials understand the urgency of the vote.
This is not a time for bipartisanship. This is not a time for word games. This is a time to do shit and get things done.
There is a gentleman who watches my show quite a bit and he just breaks my heart. He says I barely speak with neighbors and live in fear as a gay gentleman.

(47:08):
In 2025, that is ridiculous. We are actually getting to that point where I might start feeling scared again.
I mean, taking the T out of the LGBT, I think they are going to try to take the G. As he said, they want to overturn gay marriage.

(47:34):
I didn't grow up saying I always wanted to be married and that's probably because it wasn't possible. But it really wasn't when I was living in New York and New York State was voting on it.
The fact that they thought they could take the right away from me made me so angry that when it finally passed, I wanted to get married.

(48:00):
Why shouldn't I have the same rights? We are all Americans.
That is the foundational concept of America. Let me be clear. We haven't lived up to the American dream for a lot of America's existence.
But the ideal that's there, that every person in this country is born equal and born free and has the same chance to succeed, no matter who you are, no matter your sexuality, no matter your gender, no matter your religion, like that, that is what America is about.

(48:34):
I think that's a dream worth striving towards and it's really clear that this current administration and the Maga movement in particular does not believe in that dream. They do not think that the American dream is something worth fighting for. They view it as an obstacle.
That's why we have to understand this isn't a right versus left issue. This is an America versus an America issue.

(49:01):
Our president is doing commercials from the White House.
You couldn't write that on TV and we wouldn't believe it. It's crazy.
The problem is when you try to tell people literally just the facts of what's happening, you sound like you're unhinged.

(49:26):
Today our president decided that he wants to annex Canada. He talked about taking over Greenland. He did a car commercial for Tesla. Then he advertised for a mean coin.
I'm sorry sir, you having a stroke? Totally. Well Lawrence Ordano on MSNBC was basically saying that last night about what he said about Chuck Schumer.

(49:52):
He basically, you know, about, you know, not being Jewish, like how anti-Semitic is that and calling him a Palestinian?
And you know, Lawrence basically said if that had been President Biden, the New York Times would have had it on the front page of the entire paper that he had lost his marbles.
And you know, no one with no one in the press court even questioned Donald yesterday after he said those words.

(50:21):
I disagree with Schumer on his political stance. I'm never going to say that you're not Jewish, because only a insane person says that.
Like that's, or a Nazi. That's, that's Nazi rhetoric.
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I love what you shared on Blue Sky about people asking what they can do to support you.

(50:46):
And you said rather than buy a Jersey or something else, you were encouraged folks to make a donation to the Trevor Project as someone who was a volunteer Lifeline counselor for them. Thank you.
Yeah, no, well, it's really important because you know, both the Trevor Project and trans Lifeline, like they're, they're helping the people that are really feeling the heat right now, right?

(51:10):
Those are the organizations that need your resources because there are a lot of very scared and rightfully scared transgender and LGBTQ people out there because they see what's happening.
They see the rhetoric being directed at them and we can't let them succumb to despair.
We have to let them know, hey, there are people for you here. Like there, there, there are people who want you to keep living.

(51:31):
We want you to exist in this world and we will fight for your right to be able to do that.
So true. I mean, and you know, I've said this probably in the last year a lot, but like here I am, you know, a gay Jewish man at a very, you know, strange time in our country.
But I, you know, I'm not going to hide who I am at, you know, 58 years old.

(51:57):
And I shouldn't have to, you know, but it gives you pause because of all of the BS that is going on.
That's, well, and again, that's why I think it's so important to form those local connections and to like just realize how many of us there are out there because you know that the United States one world war two.

(52:21):
Like that, that took a lot of people to make that happen. And I still believe there are a lot of people in this country that do not agree with the direction the country is going in.
We just need them to make their voices heard and be visible. So that way it is overwhelming that no, this is not what America is. This is not what America stands for. We as citizens will not stand for it either.

(52:48):
Have you ever thought about running for office? Yeah, so many people have asked me that.
So the thing is for me, I want to be the most effective that I can be. I'm not sure running for political office will be that because a, I don't know that I have the mentality for it.
Like, you know, I can definitely like call out issues that I see and you know, like talk to people and make them aware of stuff.

(53:11):
The problem is when it comes like going line by line down a budget, I'm just like, I don't want to do that. I don't care about the small minutia, which you need to care about the small minutia to be an effective public servant.
And there are people like that out there. Um, like Katie Porter, for example, like who just announced her run for governor California.
Like she's a fantastic public servant. Like she cares about those really super small detail issues, the procedure, you know, all the little things and government should be boring.

(53:41):
Government should be filled with policy nerds and people who care about the small details. City Council meetings should not involve people getting arrested or yelling and screaming matches because the people there should be handling their business.
Um, unfortunately, we're working for the community working for exactly unity. Yes. I mean, what happened at that with representative Sarah McBride was off right? Yeah. I mean, I mean, how I can't even describe how really awful that was.

(54:17):
Yeah, it's a well, and part of the problem is that like our media environment has turned politics into entertainment. Politics should never be entertainment. Like you don't, I get that yeah, you want a personable person to run for office.
But I want someone who knows how to do the job to run for office. Like and frankly, I don't think I am that person to do the job.

(54:39):
I mean, I don't know like maybe I can, but again, it's the other problem I have is that in Huntington Beach in particular for city council to run here, we don't use a precinct system.
We use a essentially an at large. So the first three or four people to get the most votes, depending on the voting year, are the ones who get elected to the city council.

(55:01):
So we also have a very big mega church in the area, Calvary Chapel. They donate a lot of money to the right wing candidates. And our fourth place finisher this year, Natalie Mosher, she was a previous council member, she was an incumbent.
She raised $260,000 for a city council race. Yeah, and she lost like she was the fourth place finisher. That like that's what we're dealing with in Huntington Beach.

(55:27):
And a lot of this money is coming in from out of state. So like first off, there's the financial difficulty of running here.
My second issue is that I'm actually fairly happy with my congressional representative. I feel like Dave Minnes doing a pretty good job.
He said some problematic those, but on the whole, I think he gets it. Like I think he knows how to do the job. I think he's doing a good job.

(55:50):
I don't want to take his job. He's doing fine. At the higher level, like Katie Porter is running for governor. I want her to be my governor.
Like I want to be the governor of California. It seems miserable.
Yes it does. Right?
In terms of a Senate seat, I have attention now, but I'm not a Senate person. I'm not a politician. And I have clear lines that I will not cross.

(56:20):
And there are things that I will not compromise on.
And you probably yelled out for what you wear to the right exactly.
Like I would show up like this. I'm actually planning on showing up like this at a local Democratic club that I'm speaking at later tonight.
So yeah, like I don't want to be a politician. Like I just want to sit at home and play video games and people leave me alone.

(56:46):
But I can't sit at home and play video games while the world's burning down. Because then I won't be able to sit at home and play video games.
100% well, I appreciate that so much.
Before I let you go, what gives you hope?
So what gives me hope is the fact that humanity is really resilient. Like we've gone through very dark patches.

(57:09):
You know, empires fall, new new civilizations rise to replace them. It really sucks to be in the middle of that.
It's not very fun for anyone involved. But as a whole humanity is generally is more positive than negative.
Because we are social animals. We're social creatures. We want to help other people.

(57:30):
And I know like especially in fiction, there's this popular idea of a dystopia always being like it's a mad Max thunder dome.
Like it's the brutal wasteland. We're knowing trust each other.
But when you look at what actually happens in emergencies and natural disasters, that's not what happens.
Like the vast majority of people come together to help each other.
I mean, we saw that with the LA fires that just occurred. Right?

(57:51):
Like we saw that back when Katrina happened. Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. Right?
Yeah, you get, you know, right? Yeah, 9/11. Like yeah, there's going to be bad actors.
Like there's going to be people who there's going to be people who you know take stuff.
But that always happens. Humanity is also filled with assholes.
But those aren't the people that define us. What defines us is that people come together, try to fix problems and then make life better for everyone involved.

(58:17):
So I firmly believe that like that is at the end of the day, what most people are like.
We just need those people to show up and vote and realize that voting is really important in a democracy.
Chris, I really can't thank you enough for doing this and for everything you're doing really.
You're quite special and you articulate it well with a smile on your face.

(58:43):
So, and you know, I think that goes a long way, truly. I mean, you're not angry.
You're just really speaking your voice to make a change.
Well, thank you. And thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it.
Back at you. I hope tonight's talk goes well as well and stay in touch if we can do it again in lighten people.

(59:05):
It would be my pleasure. Awesome. We'll do. Thanks, Chris.
Thanks everybody for watching. Thank you to Chris Clouy for joining us.
You know, do what he says. You know, get out there. Get to a city council meeting.
If you haven't yet subscribed to my YouTube channel, you can do so down below.
Turn on notifications for reminders of all upcoming shows and if you like to stream audio versions, just search the locker room on your favorite podcast platform.

(59:34):
Thanks everybody. Please, as always, stay safe.
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