From London to Auschwitz Robert Desmond's Mission to Educate and Inspire Through Ride for the Living
February 25, 2025 • 59 mins
“We are cycling away from the gates of death to the gates of life.”
Don’t miss a powerful episode of Conversations with Alan featuring Robert Desmond, who joins us from Poland.
11 years ago, Robert set out on a solo bike ride from London to Auschwitz, determined to honor Holocaust victims and educate others about what intolerance can lead to. Along the way, he formed a profound friendship with Marcel Zielinski, who, as a small child, walked alone and afraid from Auschwitz-Birkenau to Krakow nearly 79 years ago. Marcel’s story serves as a powerful reminder of the journey from darkness to light—from leaving Auschwitz scared and alone to the celebration of Jewish life’s rebirth in Krakow today.
What began as Robert’s personal mission grew into Ride for the Living, an annual event uniting hundreds of people from around the world—survivors, supporters, and families—on a symbolic journey from Auschwitz to Krakow. This ride honors the past while celebrating the resilience, survival, and renewal of Jewish life.
In our conversation, Robert will share his deeply personal journey and reflect on the profound impact of Ride for the Living, a ride that transformed his life and the lives of so many others. We’ll also discuss the urgent need to educate future generations about the Holocaust amid rising antisemitism and Holocaust denial, and how this ride helped inspire the powerful documentary For the Living.
Listen to this moving conversation that highlights the journey from darkness to light and the importance of honoring those who came before us while committing to a brighter future.
Don’t miss a powerful episode of Conversations with Alan featuring Robert Desmond, who joins us from Poland.
11 years ago, Robert set out on a solo bike ride from London to Auschwitz, determined to honor Holocaust victims and educate others about what intolerance can lead to. Along the way, he formed a profound friendship with Marcel Zielinski, who, as a small child, walked alone and afraid from Auschwitz-Birkenau to Krakow nearly 79 years ago. Marcel’s story serves as a powerful reminder of the journey from darkness to light—from leaving Auschwitz scared and alone to the celebration of Jewish life’s rebirth in Krakow today.
What began as Robert’s personal mission grew into Ride for the Living, an annual event uniting hundreds of people from around the world—survivors, supporters, and families—on a symbolic journey from Auschwitz to Krakow. This ride honors the past while celebrating the resilience, survival, and renewal of Jewish life.
In our conversation, Robert will share his deeply personal journey and reflect on the profound impact of Ride for the Living, a ride that transformed his life and the lives of so many others. We’ll also discuss the urgent need to educate future generations about the Holocaust amid rising antisemitism and Holocaust denial, and how this ride helped inspire the powerful documentary For the Living.
Listen to this moving conversation that highlights the journey from darkness to light and the importance of honoring those who came before us while committing to a brighter future.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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[MUSIC]
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>> Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining me for conversations with Alan.
I'm Alan Locker, the child of two Holocaust survivors.
I created this series to foster honest discussions about the rise of anti-Semitism and
hate with the hope of sparking conversations that encourage us all to reflect on our role in shaping history.
(00:28):
My goal is to inspire collective action to eradicate hate in all its forms.
These conversations are even more crucial than ever as anti-Semitism continues to rise around the world.
Tonight, I'm honored to welcome Robert Desmond, a British foreign software developer whose passions for
cycling, history, and Holocaust education led to an extraordinary journey.
(00:53):
In October 2013, Robert embarked on a 25-day, so-loub bike ride from London to Auschwitz,
retracing the path of World War II liberation sites to honor the past and keep its lessons alive.
The life-changing ride inspired the creation of Ride for the Living, a global initiative that
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connects history, resilience, and hope through a symbolic ride from Auschwitz to crack out.
During this journey, Robert developed a profound friendship with Marcel Zelinski, who has a young
child of 10 walked 60 miles alone and afraid from Auschwitz, Burkinau, to crack out nearly
79 years ago.
(01:34):
Marcel's story is a powerful reminder of the journey from darkness to light, from leaving
Auschwitz scared on alone to the celebration of Jewish life's rebirth in crack out today.
Marcel's inspiring story and their friendship is now the focus of the powerful new documentary
for the living, which follows Robert and Marcel's journey.
(01:55):
The film will be shown next week at the Miami Jewish Film Festival on Wednesday, January
15th at 8 p.m. at Oath's Cinema South Beach.
Joining us now from Poland, please welcome Robert Desmond to Conversations with Alan.
Hey, Robert.
Hi Alan, thanks for having me.
(02:15):
Thank you for being here.
Did I get that right?
Yeah, that was a great summary.
That's great.
Good, good, good.
Well, you know, after seeing the film and speaking to the film's director is Mark Bennett
and Tim Roper, I wanted to meet you.
I love the creation of this ride.
And as I mentioned backstage, I have, you know, personally written many rides, 275 to 500
(02:42):
miles for AIDS when I was a bit younger, but what you're doing, I think, is truly inspiring.
I'd love to start really with your passion for history in the Holocaust.
Where did that first begin?
Yeah, it's kind of interesting.
I didn't really develop it until I actually went to Auschwitz for the first time.
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So during, like in my upbringing, we kind of knew about the Holocaust.
We were taught it in school and obviously we sort of spoke about it a bit in our family,
but you never really understood what had happened.
It was only when I was, I must have been about 20 or 21 that I went on a trip to Auschwitz.
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And I was actually dedicating like a whole day to go around a tour there and actually stand
in the camp where I realized, oh, I did not understand this at all.
It was the facts or the number 6 million which you learn at school.
That doesn't encompass the true evil that happened here.
And like this really happened and it didn't happen so far away from my comfy life in North
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London and it didn't actually happen that long ago as well.
I think that was when I sort of got hooked, as they say, and wanted to learn more and then
also wanted to tell other people that was really what came out of it because I had this very
profound experience and I wanted to share that with other people and I would go back and
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tell people, hey, you should go, you should go and visit and lots of people, you don't want
to go, you don't want to go and be depressed.
It sounds like a tough experience.
Yeah, it was that first trip when I actually was standing in Auschwitz that brought me.
What led you there on that first trip?
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It was really serendipity.
So a friend of mine happened to be going on a trip or he just got back from a trip and
I said, oh, that sounds really interesting.
And he's like, oh, there's another trip.
Let me get you signed up and that's, yeah, it just happened through a random conversation.
Would you have imagined the, you know, you went there I guess with one idea and left with
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a completely different understanding of what transpired there.
So now since that trip, I've gone back many times and even taken groups with much of the
living for the UK delegation and also friends and families.
And one of the things that always happens is when you're touring, there's always something
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little that makes you question.
It develops more questions.
And so you almost, once you unearth something, you're like, wait, how did that happen?
How did people let this happen?
Like, what happened to that person?
What happened to that group of people from this country?
Oh, wow, there's like a thread of what happened to the Hungarian Jews.
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Suddenly, there's more questions every time that you go and visit.
It becomes overwhelming as I'm sure you know.
Well, you know, the fact that you just said you take many different people and groups, I'm
going to make it a point that at some point you take me.
That would be fantastic to have you to show you.
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I definitely feel that need to see it up close for not really grasping the full scope of
what my parents had experienced, you know, and losing family there.
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Not at Auschwitz, but at different camps per se.
Before you set out on your 25-day solo bike ride, you took a Roots trip with your dad to Poland.
What was that experience like?
Yeah, so we actually sort of combined it.
So my father's family, that side of from what is now Ukraine, which was Russia.
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So we stopped on the way and did the Auschwitz trip on that first trip.
So sort of like, if we're going to go there, we might as well sort of do all these things together.
And it was very sort of humbling to realize that again, like luck and serendipity of deciding,
hey, let's get out of here and let's go.
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And fortunately, they went west as opposed to east.
And it was, you know, we owe a lot to that side of that family that decided to get out.
Other sides is Lithuania and everyone moved before the war, fortunately for my family.
And yeah, I couldn't imagine.
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It's such a different life in rural Ukraine than North London.
Yeah, definitely.
Is it that trip that led you to do the ride from London to Auschwitz?
Pretty much. That was definitely the seed.
It was again, this trying to convince people, hey, you should really go and learn about this more.
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Because I kind of knew about it, but I didn't really understand them.
I'm sure there's other people.
I remember one particular incident at university, where I would go to Friday night dinners at the Jewish society.
And I was just on my way to go and a friend of mine says, oh, do you want to come out for a drink with us?
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And I said, no, I'm going to the Jewish society for Friday night.
And they said, oh, you're Jewish.
And I was like, yeah, I mean, I'm not outwardly.
It's not the first thing that I say to people.
And I remember she made a comment that was like, but you're so nice.
And this sort of level of underlying anti-semitism that just is in society made me realize that, okay,
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if I didn't understand what happened in the Holocaust, I didn't fully comprehend what happened.
As a Jewish person.
As a Jewish person with family who came from this part of the world,
how is my friend who hasn't met a Jew before?
Didn't realize she'd met a Jew.
How is she meant to connect to this and learn?
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And I almost made it sort of a mission to come back and tell as many people as I could to try
educate as much as I could.
I mean, that is really surprising, I guess, to me.
It's down to me that that was roughly 2012.
That question, how she phrased that.
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You came out of her mouth.
Kind of shocking, really.
Well, many worse things have happened.
Simulcy, then so.
Yes.
100%.
But, you know, it's still,
it still astounds me.
How did that ride and doing it so though changed you?
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It actually changed me in several ways.
I'd say the first thing is,
every day at the end of the day, I would write a sort of blog post about where I'd be and
what I'd learned and whether it was the beaches of Normandy or the Palace of Versailles or the American
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Cemetery in Luxembourg or even some camps like Flossenberg or Auschwitz or Teraisenstatt.
I would kind of reflect and share that experience.
And what I found that if I wrote a relatively short blog post, a lot of my friends would actually
read that and there was almost like this, "Oh, what's Robert up to? What's he doing?"
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And you could almost sneak in some education.
And that made me have this realization that, "Ah, it's not necessarily that people don't want to
learn. It's that they're scared of this big scary sort of Holocaust genocide topic.
But if you can wedge in like a hook to get them interested in it, which I guess is the
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genesis for the right as well, right? The right is the hope to get you to go and
sort of have the uplifting, exciting, fun experience while also commemorating what happened."
Does that blog still live online?
You know what? I actually took it down, it went down earlier this year,
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but I'm hoping to put it back up. I actually made a book out of all of the blog posts.
Wow. Would you have in the other room? I should have put it in.
Yeah. I mean, because I was going to say, I'd, you know, happy to put the link up if it was up for
people to read. At the end of the ride, you reconnected with the crack-out JCC, where you had gone
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for Shabbat dinner with your now wife. And that is where you and the JCC's executive director,
Jonathan Ornstein came up with the ride. Can you sort of describe the conversation
and how the genesis of it?
Yeah. So I finished the ride from London to Auschwitz. I finished on a Wednesday, I think.
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And then on the Friday, my wife and I went to the Jewish Community Centre for Friday,
19, and it was there that we met young members of the congregation as well as
older members who were Holocaust survivors who had somehow stayed in crack-out or stayed in
Poland of Monown and Crack-out. And they were part of this community that was
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new because there hadn't been anything under the Soviet occupation, and they were now allowed to
be Jewish, be like outwardly Jewish. And it was just so moving to me, I became sort of fascinated with
and, and, and I'm at by, by the whole community that. And very good friends with Jonathan and Justin
and Rabbi Avi, and we were sitting around one day and and I say Jonathan came up with the idea,
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he says I did, but this idea that the ride should not end in Auschwitz. The story of the Jewish people
doesn't end there. It continues, you know, we have life today and we have to continue to live,
and that's what the JCC is. That we're not forgetting about the past, definitely not, but we also have to
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bring back sort of a focus on today. And he said, what if we continued the ride from Auschwitz to the JCC
and then we put two and two together slowly and and that first year we actually decided we would
have, we would raise money for the Holocaust survivors to go on a trip to Israel, many of whom hadn't
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traveled abroad before and we, there were 15 of us and we raised about $40,000 and it was a very
special, yeah, it was a very special first ride. Wow. And this was you on the first ride, correct?
That was when I just arrived after the 25 days. Wow. From London to Auschwitz. Yes, yeah.
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Incredible. Incredible journey. How long have you now been living in Poland?
So I have been here basically pretty much nonstop since that ride. We did go back to London for a few
years, but now yeah, I've been here basically 12, 13 years, I think. Wow. And what is Jewish life?
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How would you describe Jewish life there? So Jewish life is small. It's definitely not what it once was,
but it's powerful, right? It's particularly with, I mentioned the JCC community in Krakow.
The Holocaust survivors were able to sing sort of Yiddish songs that weren't sung in that community for
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70 years. And to hear those tunes and to hear sort of many of the survivors remember these songs
and repeat them is something very powerful that's so close to Auschwitz. Wow. Did you grow up
religious in London? I grew up in liberal Judaism, which I think is referred to as reform in America maybe.
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So I'm Jewish as they say. I don't keep Jewish, but I'm very fond of the community and I'm very fond of
discussing teachings and yeah. Yeah, I would probably consider myself similar. I have always wished I
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learned more. I think I told you backstage not growing up in a Jewish community or most of my
friends went to church. I think it made me miss out on embracing it more. And I try to do so a little more
this day and without my parents living, sort of this is a way to, by doing this show is a way to
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honor them as well. The first ride took place for a ride for the living in 2014. What do you remember
about the inaugural ride and finishing that, you know, like coming to... Yeah, it was an amazing
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experience because I bought a few friends from London, came over. My now wife did the ride with us
and our friends from Crackout too. And it was this intimate little sort of there was no organization. We
had a rough route that was planned out and we just kind of did it. And it was very powerful to
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firstly to get other people, other friends of mine, to go to our fits to do the tour. Like that was my
original motivation, right? As I mentioned, I wanted to get people to go and visit. So that was very
meaningful to me that people went and they did the education piece. Were they a mix of Jews and non-Jews?
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They were actually, yes. Yes, they were. I'm curious. Because that's... Yeah. It's great to be able to
introduce both. 100%. In fact, I think the film talks about this as well. I mean, the film does this
extremely well. It's not just a... This isn't a Jewish tragedy, only it's a human tragedy. And it's
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not the only human tragedy of genocide that we've experienced. So if anything, it's almost more
important to get those who don't have that Jewish connection to go and be educated about it.
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, correct. It is not the only genocide in the world. I mean, I felt
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sort of even more connected to what my parents lived through when the Ukraine war began. Because
you and I could watch that unfold before our eyes where video footage of World War II is not...
It wasn't as prevalent as how we have access today to those things.
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Ride for the living combines the Holocaust education and the 60 mile ride. And with the rise
of anti-Semitism, the education really is such an important element. Will you talk about how that
is brought in to the ride? Yeah, so the ride itself is not just one day ride. There's actually like a full
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program for several days. There is a full day tour of Auschwitz, Auschwitz-Wormen, and Berkinau as well.
And we have several survivors. You mentioned Marcelo Zielitski. He has been attending and is a
witness who was actually in Auschwitz. Bernad was also a novel Holocaust survivor who joins us.
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And it's extremely powerful to be standing in Auschwitz when you're with a survivor who I visited
with many survivors. And there's many moments to stand out. But one in particular is when you're standing
with Marcelo and he remembers the spot where he last saw his father in the car. The personal story,
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the personal connection makes it so much more powerful and real that you just can't get from reading
a book or just reading a history book. So yeah, the full day tour gives you an opportunity to learn
what happened and to learn more and to ask questions and also to reflect and sort of pay your
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respects at the monument they have there as well and we say "cadish". And then the following day we do
the ride, which is an early start and we leave from the gates of Berkinau and it's quite
I mean maybe you have pictures of it but it's quite a sight to see several hundred people now who
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do the ride each year standing together and sort of doing this as a unity as a way of commemorating
but also celebrating life today. Yeah, I can't imagine you know having done the rides that I have and
having that behind me, that's a whole other element. It's extremely powerful and it's very quite often
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it's it's very overwhelming you're sort of realizing that you're especially when the weather's nice
in June and you're I know you're half an hour away and you're having a great time and the sun's nice
and and everyone's sort of enjoying themselves. It's you have moments where you reflect back to oh
but we just left this place that it's such an evil place in human history. It's very surreal as well.
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Yeah, correct because it is a living breathing place that has so much history behind it.
And before leaving the ride in 2019 you gave a speech where you said we are here for two reasons.
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Would you mind sharing those again? Sure, I actually have the exact words that I said so I'll
repeat them here. That'd be great. The first reason that we're here is to commemorate and pay
respects to all of the victims of the Holocaust and that clearly goes without saying and it's
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a primary reason for which we're all here but we also have to celebrate life. We recognize how lucky
we are in our lives today. We must come back to our reality today and live our lives now.
So powerful and this is Benard I think the back of Benard. Yes, actually, but that's
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famous ponytail. You can't mistake it. I love that famous ponytail. The 10th annual ride and I think
it would be longer but because of the pandemic will take place in June and people can register now.
The link is down below but people can also participate which I found fascinating from from home
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in the right for the living global challenge. Tell us about the global challenge.
Yes, so this is essentially I mean I think we actually did it before the pandemic but it was a way
to connect to communities that couldn't make the trip all the way over to Poland and so we have this
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idea of like a satellite event where you can do a spin class or you could ride your own
distance of 60 miles or you could even just do some other physical challenge or something.
I think some people do yoga. It's just a way to connect if you can't make the trip all the way to
Poland. Have you found a lot of people participating? Yeah, I don't know the exact number of how many
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people have done it but there's been many, many groups from all over the world who you've
I'm sort of so mad I didn't learn about this until meeting the directors for the living because
it's incredible and I will be do you know something so um right what has inspired you the most or
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what do you think you've learned since the rides have taken off or even I'd be curious just um
if you recall some of the reactions of people who have come to do this.
Um I mean what is the most that there's so many powerful moments that have happened
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particularly on the ride itself where you're either with Marcel um particularly I when you
did a tandem with Marcel and it's there's something unbelievably powerful about doing this
with someone who was forced to do the same journey um so many years ago that's as a 10 as a 10-year-old
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boy as a 10-year-old boy in the depth of Polish winter which is not fun it was snow on the ground and
not properly thinking no no google maps to get you anywhere and no you know um and he had he had no idea
and he was with a group of um other kids and they were trying to find family members and he was lucky
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enough to find his his mother several months later when he got back to Krakow um that's particularly
powerful it's also very powerful to be with um other second generation so not just survivors but
the children of survivors like yourself who can connect to this event to the history in an extremely
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powerful way and to be doing this in sort of commemoration that's extremely powerful um and then
also to see how you know we have writers from all over the world from from South America to Europe
to North America to South Africa um and or even Australia there's a fair contingent from that and we
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all have this shared well a lot of people have this shared history of kind of Jewish history and coming
from Eastern Europe and for us to kind of come together and be together with our very different
lives that's that's something that's really almost beautiful to to say here are all these different
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people from different parts but we all have this thing in common and we're all going to dedicate
some time and money and flights and everything to to go and do this thing because we all believe in
it and we and we want to commemorate um so that so the people on the right come on on a on a
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charity ride I'm sure it was the same with your rides I know you just got me really all choked up because
it just reminded me of that Robert like some of the dearest friends in my life are from those
rides today um and I you just it hit me really hard as you just said that but it it it is true we
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you know you come together and it changes you you know what you have to endure too I mean we slept
in tents and you know road through a bridge a random blizzard in in summer yeah you know we had
a little harsh experience but yeah it is that community coming together for a cause
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that and what's what's also nice about a bike ride as well is you get to meet so many different people
because I'm sure you had this on your bike rides like not everyone goes at the same pace so you
stop or you right next to someone for a couple of miles you talk about their history uh and then you
activated it just moves and you go and talk to someone else and you build another friendship and
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yeah it's it's very powerful it's very I it's same as you I've got many friends many lifelong friends
that I will be friends with forever who I made on that ride yeah well speaking of one of them
Marcel Zalinsky who you met in 2015 how did um Marcel get involved um what made you to I mean
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first of all your friendship is such a beautiful part of the documentary I mean we hands down it is
so special um talk about that friendship yeah I went I mean when we started it we never expected to
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have a holocaust survivor and like obviously we didn't know about Marcel before we started it was
after that first ride where we had 15 people we said let's do it again and open it up and try and get
more people along and we I think we got a call from someone in Canada and you're like wow we've
reached someone in Canada this is this is on the second ride when when we were expecting maybe I
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don't know 20 people or something um we're like oh we met someone from Canada who's gonna come and um
turns out he's a survivor from Auschwitz and he was a boy in Auschwitz he's also a keen cyclist and he's
gonna um he's gonna join the ride together to to retrace his steps which he was liberated from
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and he's not only just gonna do the ride with us which is already like wow what a this is
so fantastic and amazing um but he's gonna come with his son and his wife is also gonna join and his
son's gonna join and his granddaughters are gonna ride with us too like there's something that was
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I immediately fell in love with Marcel before I'd even met him um he'd done a uh I think he'd done
a little newspaper article a local paper in Montreal had interviewed him and I they made a little
video of him and yeah I was just before I'd even spoken to him I knew there was this strong connection
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uh that I felt and when we met uh you know the first time we hugged it was actually outside of Auschwitz
um on the on the day of the ride I think it was the morning of the ride and we just stood there hugging
for like it must have been 10 minutes um we'd spoken on the phone but it was our first meeting yeah
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there is that was at the end of the 2016 ride I think that must have been the year we did a tandem
together um yeah and and I said this in the documentary as well he's like this long lost brother and
even though there's a couple of generations between us we feel you know we're kindred spirits we both
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have this shared passion of cycling um and yeah and unfortunately fortunately we have this
connection through Auschwitz and and but this is where we are and and we want to do the ride and celebrate
life today I mean that you know to when you think of the the darkness I mean that that really is the
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light that comes out of that tragedy um and it also is you know what is it 70 five years or so
after the war when you two came together or roughly in you know 70 something um really that that's
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something um what was it like riding with him it you know it's really interesting because the first
time we rode uh in fact it was it was even on the on the tour lots of the the people the attendees of
of the trip wanted to come up and ask him questions and when you're riding with him you want to
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ask him questions of like what was it like tell me tell me your story we want to know first hand
from from your experience what actually happened and was really interesting and and it's happened
I don't know about your parents but many survivors didn't talk for many many years about what
had happened and Marcel was no different um he hadn't really spoken about it and so he some survivors
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might have like a polished story that they've told thousands of times and and this was really one of
the first times that he actually spoken about his experience and and you could see the the connection
that he still had as you said 75 years later to that memory of his father the last place of his
or him um and yeah this this it's it's very meaningful it's extremely meaningful to to to ride with him
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I I can't I have no words for it yeah I can imagine and and you know I always knew my parents for
Holocaust survivors um my mother last saw her father at a work camp and we have a picture of him
at that work camp but it it was after Schindler's list that we convinced my sister and I convinced
(34:08):
them to do the Shoah Foundation and even even then I mean they were interviewed by a stranger
basically who come to the house and we learned a lot but you you could still see and that was 1994
ish how difficult it was for them to speak about what had happened you know so long
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after this is why it's so important I mean especially now we life there are some certain
season life and and at some point in the future there won't be any survivors left to tell their
story directly and we are at a stage now where we have survivors who we can get testimony from
(34:58):
still and we should take advantage of that as as as much as we can and to learn as much as we can
I don't know what's going to happen in the future when there aren't when it when it's
are there educators and second generation there's less of a direct connection
and I think it's extremely important that we continue this exactly what you're doing with education
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piece because although the the world needs people like us who are going to try to get the word out
try to explain what happens so that we can try to prevent these things from happening again
100 percent you know it like I said backstage it took me a long time you know I realized you and I
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having this conversation is because of the family who risked 11 lives for my mother and grandmother
and the other family that you know for my father you know they were helped as well I don't know
them as well I am still very connected to the family that helped my mother and grandmother
they they are still a part of my life which is and and will be forever their their family
(36:12):
what have you learned through your friendship with Marcel about the impact the Holocaust had on him
um I mean one of the one of the most powerful things that that I've seen from Marcel directly is that
the trauma the trauma is is never eradicated like you can you can hear it in Marcel's story you can hear
(36:42):
it in his voice you can see it in in in his face like he can be transported back to those traumatic
experiences that he had in our shirts immediately and we we we always talk about sort of time
hills or wounds but it it doesn't and no it it does not you know I wanted to speak up in 2017
(37:10):
about what my you know both of my parents were gone in 2017 but after the Charlottesville
Virginia I don't know if you recall that you know um incident and seeing for myself those visuals
of the men holding teaky torches and screw you know shouting Jews will not replace us
it took me to a place that I I know my mother knew anti-semitism still existed when she was alive
(37:39):
but that was to it to an extreme that I think it would have sent her you know under the bed I really
and sort of glad she wasn't there to see that and to see where we are today even because I don't
you know what happened in Israel on October 7th I can imagine what that would have done
and what it has done to other Holocaust survivors it's um it's incredibly upsetting and
(38:08):
I I personally feel very powerless a little bit of time um I think one of the only things that I
actually can have control of is through sort of Holocaust education and trying to get the word out
which is why I'm so proud that this film has has been made and I'm a part of it and and that it's
(38:32):
trying to help the world become more educated about what what can happen in humanity what has happened
many times over um and we should look we need to learn from these these horrible mistakes and learn
that it's a it's a very slippery slope um the themes in the in the documentary about this dehumanization
(38:54):
process and from each stage it's very it's very easy to get from one stage to another and and
we and it's going to happen very quickly yeah while speaking of the film what did you think
when you were approached when you and Marcel were approached that they wanted to make this film what
was your first reaction um my first reaction is who are these crazy people who want to talk to me
(39:22):
who want to document our our connection it um but no when I first spoke to Mark over the phone
I think we spoke for several hours um and he really understood kind of it's not just uh the the
ride is a great story in itself but there's also a wider message of education that can also
it's a great backdrop exactly yes um it's a hook it's the same as getting people to come to the
(39:49):
education on the trip it's like do let's go on a fun bike ride oh by the way you need to learn these
things it's uh yeah um and then I got to know Tim as well and Lisa and the whole crew and
we came up with this I can I don't want to ruin things that are in the yeah definitely don't I didn't
(40:11):
because I didn't want to talk about the end of the movie at all because that's so great um so
we did some filming and it was it was wonderful to sort of document our connection with with
me and myself that's something that I'm gonna hold for the rest of my life and and be very proud to be
to be part of um I think they've done a great job and to go back to my original I never expected this
(40:37):
but my original trip to Auschwitz when I was standing there and thinking wow the whole world should
learn more about this and now like I've written a book and I actually filmed my original ride and I
have this very indie indie movie um and these guys have taken it to a much higher level much more
professional level and it's it's fantastic that it's there and very I'm very proud to be part of it
(41:03):
did you and Marcel get to watch it together we did there was a premiere in crackout last year at the
ride and yeah we were sitting right next to him and my wife was also uh eight and a half months pregnant
with our third son uh so that was that was nice that we got him to see it through the belly
(41:25):
we all there was it was really really nice and and very I mean there was not a dry eye in that house
I think that night it was it was the day after the ride and everyone was already emotional and exhausted
that then uh you are you are no matter what those things yep at the end you're emotional so I can't
(41:48):
imagine watching that after for sure um what was Marcel's reaction was he was he was he happy that
you know he shared his story yeah I think he he was they captured his story in an overwhelming
(42:10):
way that he like he gave the proverbial thumbs up for the way that they captured it they told
they told it the way that he remembered it and I think that's that's extremely powerful to know
that this is really accurately what happened and that this is and this is how he remembers it
(42:33):
and it's told others in that same way and that's how we educate you know it's the truth of the story
Marcel turned 90 last September how's he doing? He's doing well he's now back in Israel
with not just his son and his granddaughters but also his great grandchildren he's got three great
(42:56):
grandchildren now which is amazing um I'm not sure they're old enough to ride yet I think there are
a couple of the oldest is two or three maybe now um but yeah no it's it's very he's doing okay
obviously Israel is a it's a tough place to be these days but but as always Marcel is in high
(43:18):
spirits wow yeah that that to me what I would feel like that would be a scary place
in the climate it is for him because it it must bring back some memories it's really interesting he's
and I found this with a lot of Holocaust survivors they're often quite
(43:44):
calm or forgiving or empathetic even themselves I think they they in particular have learned a lot
of of life and and they they've experienced a lot of life and Marcel is extremely mature and
he's very insightful about the whole thing he's very balanced and and yeah wow you said the book
(44:12):
are you releasing the book or is it out already I printed a few hundred copies from myself and my friends
but I will make sure that I send you one you you should definitely you know make it available absolutely
I'm not even on the on the rides site yeah maybe it's part of it as especially as part of this
documentary coming out we could yeah correct you get get a lot of exposure so for anyone watching
(44:39):
Robert who might you know hear 60 miles and and are feeling scared or intimidated what would you
say to them to get them to join ride for the living there's lots of things I could say I could say
don't worry if you well firstly 60 miles is not a huge long way with the bilitrating you could
(45:03):
definitely do that and even if you can't do the ride you can still come and do the educational
piece and maybe even ride the first hundred meters or a few miles if you like there's a support vehicle
to come and help any stragglers it's all very well organized now not like the first year where we got
lost a few times so it's a very powerful event and yeah come along to crack it on and experience
(45:29):
ride for the living well Robert thank you so much for doing this the film for the living
has a screening next Wednesday evening at the Miami Jewish Film Festival at the O Sinema South
Beach the link is down below for both for the ride ride for the living yeah for the living
(45:53):
documentary ride for the living the ride and the Miami Jewish Film Festival such a pleasure to
meet you and I am we are you and I are gonna stay in touch because I I would love to have you share
your knowledge if I can ever get over there experience it's so very very nice to meet you Alan thank
(46:17):
you and thank you for doing this well appreciate truly thank you for creating this and continuing to
you know speak up because I think you know there are many other Jewish individuals who are
are scared to speak up truly because of what is going on in the world I have a holocaust survivor
(46:41):
in my family who's in her 90s and she sort of gets very nervous every time I post something you know
and and worries for me but knowing that I would not be here without all of the other people who risk
their lives it's the and knowing that you know my how far my parents came from that place it's something
(47:07):
I have to do you know I I proudly wear my high you know so well I'm gonna do we definitely do
thank you again for being here thanks Alan cheers thanks everybody thank you to Robert Desmond for
joining us from Poland today and for creating ride for the living for more information on the ride
(47:33):
go to ridefortheliving.org the next ride takes place June 25th through June 29th and for more
information on the documentary please visit for the livingmovie.com and then don't forget remember
if you're in Miami the screening is on January 15th as I leave you tonight remember we all have
(47:53):
choices to make in life speak up do the hard things and let's all fight hate for good I truly
believe conversations like this can change the world around us war is certainly not the answer feel
free to share this episode or any of these episodes with your friends and family and until the next
(48:14):
conversation please stay safe
[MUSIC]
(00:07):
>> Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining me for conversations with Alan.
I'm Alan Locker, the child of two Holocaust survivors.
I created this series to foster honest discussions about the rise of anti-Semitism and
hate with the hope of sparking conversations that encourage us all to reflect on our role in shaping history.
(00:28):
My goal is to inspire collective action to eradicate hate in all its forms.
These conversations are even more crucial than ever as anti-Semitism continues to rise around the world.
Tonight, I'm honored to welcome Robert Desmond, a British foreign software developer whose passions for
cycling, history, and Holocaust education led to an extraordinary journey.
(00:53):
In October 2013, Robert embarked on a 25-day, so-loub bike ride from London to Auschwitz,
retracing the path of World War II liberation sites to honor the past and keep its lessons alive.
The life-changing ride inspired the creation of Ride for the Living, a global initiative that
(01:14):
connects history, resilience, and hope through a symbolic ride from Auschwitz to crack out.
During this journey, Robert developed a profound friendship with Marcel Zelinski, who has a young
child of 10 walked 60 miles alone and afraid from Auschwitz, Burkinau, to crack out nearly
79 years ago.
(01:34):
Marcel's story is a powerful reminder of the journey from darkness to light, from leaving
Auschwitz scared on alone to the celebration of Jewish life's rebirth in crack out today.
Marcel's inspiring story and their friendship is now the focus of the powerful new documentary
for the living, which follows Robert and Marcel's journey.
(01:55):
The film will be shown next week at the Miami Jewish Film Festival on Wednesday, January
15th at 8 p.m. at Oath's Cinema South Beach.
Joining us now from Poland, please welcome Robert Desmond to Conversations with Alan.
Hey, Robert.
Hi Alan, thanks for having me.
(02:15):
Thank you for being here.
Did I get that right?
Yeah, that was a great summary.
That's great.
Good, good, good.
Well, you know, after seeing the film and speaking to the film's director is Mark Bennett
and Tim Roper, I wanted to meet you.
I love the creation of this ride.
And as I mentioned backstage, I have, you know, personally written many rides, 275 to 500
(02:42):
miles for AIDS when I was a bit younger, but what you're doing, I think, is truly inspiring.
I'd love to start really with your passion for history in the Holocaust.
Where did that first begin?
Yeah, it's kind of interesting.
I didn't really develop it until I actually went to Auschwitz for the first time.
(03:05):
So during, like in my upbringing, we kind of knew about the Holocaust.
We were taught it in school and obviously we sort of spoke about it a bit in our family,
but you never really understood what had happened.
It was only when I was, I must have been about 20 or 21 that I went on a trip to Auschwitz.
(03:27):
And I was actually dedicating like a whole day to go around a tour there and actually stand
in the camp where I realized, oh, I did not understand this at all.
It was the facts or the number 6 million which you learn at school.
That doesn't encompass the true evil that happened here.
And like this really happened and it didn't happen so far away from my comfy life in North
(03:53):
London and it didn't actually happen that long ago as well.
I think that was when I sort of got hooked, as they say, and wanted to learn more and then
also wanted to tell other people that was really what came out of it because I had this very
profound experience and I wanted to share that with other people and I would go back and
(04:15):
tell people, hey, you should go, you should go and visit and lots of people, you don't want
to go, you don't want to go and be depressed.
It sounds like a tough experience.
Yeah, it was that first trip when I actually was standing in Auschwitz that brought me.
What led you there on that first trip?
(04:38):
It was really serendipity.
So a friend of mine happened to be going on a trip or he just got back from a trip and
I said, oh, that sounds really interesting.
And he's like, oh, there's another trip.
Let me get you signed up and that's, yeah, it just happened through a random conversation.
Would you have imagined the, you know, you went there I guess with one idea and left with
(05:04):
a completely different understanding of what transpired there.
So now since that trip, I've gone back many times and even taken groups with much of the
living for the UK delegation and also friends and families.
And one of the things that always happens is when you're touring, there's always something
(05:26):
little that makes you question.
It develops more questions.
And so you almost, once you unearth something, you're like, wait, how did that happen?
How did people let this happen?
Like, what happened to that person?
What happened to that group of people from this country?
Oh, wow, there's like a thread of what happened to the Hungarian Jews.
(05:49):
Suddenly, there's more questions every time that you go and visit.
It becomes overwhelming as I'm sure you know.
Well, you know, the fact that you just said you take many different people and groups, I'm
going to make it a point that at some point you take me.
That would be fantastic to have you to show you.
(06:13):
I definitely feel that need to see it up close for not really grasping the full scope of
what my parents had experienced, you know, and losing family there.
(06:34):
Not at Auschwitz, but at different camps per se.
Before you set out on your 25-day solo bike ride, you took a Roots trip with your dad to Poland.
What was that experience like?
Yeah, so we actually sort of combined it.
So my father's family, that side of from what is now Ukraine, which was Russia.
(07:02):
So we stopped on the way and did the Auschwitz trip on that first trip.
So sort of like, if we're going to go there, we might as well sort of do all these things together.
And it was very sort of humbling to realize that again, like luck and serendipity of deciding,
hey, let's get out of here and let's go.
(07:25):
And fortunately, they went west as opposed to east.
And it was, you know, we owe a lot to that side of that family that decided to get out.
Other sides is Lithuania and everyone moved before the war, fortunately for my family.
And yeah, I couldn't imagine.
(07:47):
It's such a different life in rural Ukraine than North London.
Yeah, definitely.
Is it that trip that led you to do the ride from London to Auschwitz?
Pretty much. That was definitely the seed.
It was again, this trying to convince people, hey, you should really go and learn about this more.
(08:11):
Because I kind of knew about it, but I didn't really understand them.
I'm sure there's other people.
I remember one particular incident at university, where I would go to Friday night dinners at the Jewish society.
And I was just on my way to go and a friend of mine says, oh, do you want to come out for a drink with us?
(08:31):
And I said, no, I'm going to the Jewish society for Friday night.
And they said, oh, you're Jewish.
And I was like, yeah, I mean, I'm not outwardly.
It's not the first thing that I say to people.
And I remember she made a comment that was like, but you're so nice.
And this sort of level of underlying anti-semitism that just is in society made me realize that, okay,
(08:56):
if I didn't understand what happened in the Holocaust, I didn't fully comprehend what happened.
As a Jewish person.
As a Jewish person with family who came from this part of the world,
how is my friend who hasn't met a Jew before?
Didn't realize she'd met a Jew.
How is she meant to connect to this and learn?
(09:19):
And I almost made it sort of a mission to come back and tell as many people as I could to try
educate as much as I could.
I mean, that is really surprising, I guess, to me.
It's down to me that that was roughly 2012.
That question, how she phrased that.
(09:40):
You came out of her mouth.
Kind of shocking, really.
Well, many worse things have happened.
Simulcy, then so.
Yes.
100%.
But, you know, it's still,
it still astounds me.
How did that ride and doing it so though changed you?
(10:04):
It actually changed me in several ways.
I'd say the first thing is,
every day at the end of the day, I would write a sort of blog post about where I'd be and
what I'd learned and whether it was the beaches of Normandy or the Palace of Versailles or the American
(10:29):
Cemetery in Luxembourg or even some camps like Flossenberg or Auschwitz or Teraisenstatt.
I would kind of reflect and share that experience.
And what I found that if I wrote a relatively short blog post, a lot of my friends would actually
read that and there was almost like this, "Oh, what's Robert up to? What's he doing?"
(10:53):
And you could almost sneak in some education.
And that made me have this realization that, "Ah, it's not necessarily that people don't want to
learn. It's that they're scared of this big scary sort of Holocaust genocide topic.
But if you can wedge in like a hook to get them interested in it, which I guess is the
(11:14):
genesis for the right as well, right? The right is the hope to get you to go and
sort of have the uplifting, exciting, fun experience while also commemorating what happened."
Does that blog still live online?
You know what? I actually took it down, it went down earlier this year,
(11:37):
but I'm hoping to put it back up. I actually made a book out of all of the blog posts.
Wow. Would you have in the other room? I should have put it in.
Yeah. I mean, because I was going to say, I'd, you know, happy to put the link up if it was up for
people to read. At the end of the ride, you reconnected with the crack-out JCC, where you had gone
(12:01):
for Shabbat dinner with your now wife. And that is where you and the JCC's executive director,
Jonathan Ornstein came up with the ride. Can you sort of describe the conversation
and how the genesis of it?
Yeah. So I finished the ride from London to Auschwitz. I finished on a Wednesday, I think.
(12:24):
And then on the Friday, my wife and I went to the Jewish Community Centre for Friday,
19, and it was there that we met young members of the congregation as well as
older members who were Holocaust survivors who had somehow stayed in crack-out or stayed in
Poland of Monown and Crack-out. And they were part of this community that was
(12:48):
new because there hadn't been anything under the Soviet occupation, and they were now allowed to
be Jewish, be like outwardly Jewish. And it was just so moving to me, I became sort of fascinated with
and, and, and I'm at by, by the whole community that. And very good friends with Jonathan and Justin
and Rabbi Avi, and we were sitting around one day and and I say Jonathan came up with the idea,
(13:14):
he says I did, but this idea that the ride should not end in Auschwitz. The story of the Jewish people
doesn't end there. It continues, you know, we have life today and we have to continue to live,
and that's what the JCC is. That we're not forgetting about the past, definitely not, but we also have to
(13:36):
bring back sort of a focus on today. And he said, what if we continued the ride from Auschwitz to the JCC
and then we put two and two together slowly and and that first year we actually decided we would
have, we would raise money for the Holocaust survivors to go on a trip to Israel, many of whom hadn't
(13:58):
traveled abroad before and we, there were 15 of us and we raised about $40,000 and it was a very
special, yeah, it was a very special first ride. Wow. And this was you on the first ride, correct?
That was when I just arrived after the 25 days. Wow. From London to Auschwitz. Yes, yeah.
(14:28):
Incredible. Incredible journey. How long have you now been living in Poland?
So I have been here basically pretty much nonstop since that ride. We did go back to London for a few
years, but now yeah, I've been here basically 12, 13 years, I think. Wow. And what is Jewish life?
(14:56):
How would you describe Jewish life there? So Jewish life is small. It's definitely not what it once was,
but it's powerful, right? It's particularly with, I mentioned the JCC community in Krakow.
The Holocaust survivors were able to sing sort of Yiddish songs that weren't sung in that community for
(15:22):
70 years. And to hear those tunes and to hear sort of many of the survivors remember these songs
and repeat them is something very powerful that's so close to Auschwitz. Wow. Did you grow up
religious in London? I grew up in liberal Judaism, which I think is referred to as reform in America maybe.
(15:51):
So I'm Jewish as they say. I don't keep Jewish, but I'm very fond of the community and I'm very fond of
discussing teachings and yeah. Yeah, I would probably consider myself similar. I have always wished I
(16:13):
learned more. I think I told you backstage not growing up in a Jewish community or most of my
friends went to church. I think it made me miss out on embracing it more. And I try to do so a little more
this day and without my parents living, sort of this is a way to, by doing this show is a way to
(16:40):
honor them as well. The first ride took place for a ride for the living in 2014. What do you remember
about the inaugural ride and finishing that, you know, like coming to... Yeah, it was an amazing
(17:01):
experience because I bought a few friends from London, came over. My now wife did the ride with us
and our friends from Crackout too. And it was this intimate little sort of there was no organization. We
had a rough route that was planned out and we just kind of did it. And it was very powerful to
(17:25):
firstly to get other people, other friends of mine, to go to our fits to do the tour. Like that was my
original motivation, right? As I mentioned, I wanted to get people to go and visit. So that was very
meaningful to me that people went and they did the education piece. Were they a mix of Jews and non-Jews?
(17:49):
They were actually, yes. Yes, they were. I'm curious. Because that's... Yeah. It's great to be able to
introduce both. 100%. In fact, I think the film talks about this as well. I mean, the film does this
extremely well. It's not just a... This isn't a Jewish tragedy, only it's a human tragedy. And it's
(18:15):
not the only human tragedy of genocide that we've experienced. So if anything, it's almost more
important to get those who don't have that Jewish connection to go and be educated about it.
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, correct. It is not the only genocide in the world. I mean, I felt
(18:39):
sort of even more connected to what my parents lived through when the Ukraine war began. Because
you and I could watch that unfold before our eyes where video footage of World War II is not...
It wasn't as prevalent as how we have access today to those things.
(19:02):
Ride for the living combines the Holocaust education and the 60 mile ride. And with the rise
of anti-Semitism, the education really is such an important element. Will you talk about how that
is brought in to the ride? Yeah, so the ride itself is not just one day ride. There's actually like a full
(19:25):
program for several days. There is a full day tour of Auschwitz, Auschwitz-Wormen, and Berkinau as well.
And we have several survivors. You mentioned Marcelo Zielitski. He has been attending and is a
witness who was actually in Auschwitz. Bernad was also a novel Holocaust survivor who joins us.
(19:51):
And it's extremely powerful to be standing in Auschwitz when you're with a survivor who I visited
with many survivors. And there's many moments to stand out. But one in particular is when you're standing
with Marcelo and he remembers the spot where he last saw his father in the car. The personal story,
(20:18):
the personal connection makes it so much more powerful and real that you just can't get from reading
a book or just reading a history book. So yeah, the full day tour gives you an opportunity to learn
what happened and to learn more and to ask questions and also to reflect and sort of pay your
(20:45):
respects at the monument they have there as well and we say "cadish". And then the following day we do
the ride, which is an early start and we leave from the gates of Berkinau and it's quite
I mean maybe you have pictures of it but it's quite a sight to see several hundred people now who
(21:05):
do the ride each year standing together and sort of doing this as a unity as a way of commemorating
but also celebrating life today. Yeah, I can't imagine you know having done the rides that I have and
having that behind me, that's a whole other element. It's extremely powerful and it's very quite often
(21:37):
it's it's very overwhelming you're sort of realizing that you're especially when the weather's nice
in June and you're I know you're half an hour away and you're having a great time and the sun's nice
and and everyone's sort of enjoying themselves. It's you have moments where you reflect back to oh
but we just left this place that it's such an evil place in human history. It's very surreal as well.
(22:04):
Yeah, correct because it is a living breathing place that has so much history behind it.
And before leaving the ride in 2019 you gave a speech where you said we are here for two reasons.
(22:27):
Would you mind sharing those again? Sure, I actually have the exact words that I said so I'll
repeat them here. That'd be great. The first reason that we're here is to commemorate and pay
respects to all of the victims of the Holocaust and that clearly goes without saying and it's
(22:48):
a primary reason for which we're all here but we also have to celebrate life. We recognize how lucky
we are in our lives today. We must come back to our reality today and live our lives now.
So powerful and this is Benard I think the back of Benard. Yes, actually, but that's
(23:10):
famous ponytail. You can't mistake it. I love that famous ponytail. The 10th annual ride and I think
it would be longer but because of the pandemic will take place in June and people can register now.
The link is down below but people can also participate which I found fascinating from from home
(23:36):
in the right for the living global challenge. Tell us about the global challenge.
Yes, so this is essentially I mean I think we actually did it before the pandemic but it was a way
to connect to communities that couldn't make the trip all the way over to Poland and so we have this
(23:57):
idea of like a satellite event where you can do a spin class or you could ride your own
distance of 60 miles or you could even just do some other physical challenge or something.
I think some people do yoga. It's just a way to connect if you can't make the trip all the way to
Poland. Have you found a lot of people participating? Yeah, I don't know the exact number of how many
(24:23):
people have done it but there's been many, many groups from all over the world who you've
I'm sort of so mad I didn't learn about this until meeting the directors for the living because
it's incredible and I will be do you know something so um right what has inspired you the most or
(24:45):
what do you think you've learned since the rides have taken off or even I'd be curious just um
if you recall some of the reactions of people who have come to do this.
Um I mean what is the most that there's so many powerful moments that have happened
(25:09):
particularly on the ride itself where you're either with Marcel um particularly I when you
did a tandem with Marcel and it's there's something unbelievably powerful about doing this
with someone who was forced to do the same journey um so many years ago that's as a 10 as a 10-year-old
(25:34):
boy as a 10-year-old boy in the depth of Polish winter which is not fun it was snow on the ground and
not properly thinking no no google maps to get you anywhere and no you know um and he had he had no idea
and he was with a group of um other kids and they were trying to find family members and he was lucky
(25:57):
enough to find his his mother several months later when he got back to Krakow um that's particularly
powerful it's also very powerful to be with um other second generation so not just survivors but
the children of survivors like yourself who can connect to this event to the history in an extremely
(26:22):
powerful way and to be doing this in sort of commemoration that's extremely powerful um and then
also to see how you know we have writers from all over the world from from South America to Europe
to North America to South Africa um and or even Australia there's a fair contingent from that and we
(26:46):
all have this shared well a lot of people have this shared history of kind of Jewish history and coming
from Eastern Europe and for us to kind of come together and be together with our very different
lives that's that's something that's really almost beautiful to to say here are all these different
(27:06):
people from different parts but we all have this thing in common and we're all going to dedicate
some time and money and flights and everything to to go and do this thing because we all believe in
it and we and we want to commemorate um so that so the people on the right come on on a on a
(27:27):
charity ride I'm sure it was the same with your rides I know you just got me really all choked up because
it just reminded me of that Robert like some of the dearest friends in my life are from those
rides today um and I you just it hit me really hard as you just said that but it it it is true we
(27:52):
you know you come together and it changes you you know what you have to endure too I mean we slept
in tents and you know road through a bridge a random blizzard in in summer yeah you know we had
a little harsh experience but yeah it is that community coming together for a cause
(28:17):
that and what's what's also nice about a bike ride as well is you get to meet so many different people
because I'm sure you had this on your bike rides like not everyone goes at the same pace so you
stop or you right next to someone for a couple of miles you talk about their history uh and then you
activated it just moves and you go and talk to someone else and you build another friendship and
(28:43):
yeah it's it's very powerful it's very I it's same as you I've got many friends many lifelong friends
that I will be friends with forever who I made on that ride yeah well speaking of one of them
Marcel Zalinsky who you met in 2015 how did um Marcel get involved um what made you to I mean
(29:07):
first of all your friendship is such a beautiful part of the documentary I mean we hands down it is
so special um talk about that friendship yeah I went I mean when we started it we never expected to
(29:28):
have a holocaust survivor and like obviously we didn't know about Marcel before we started it was
after that first ride where we had 15 people we said let's do it again and open it up and try and get
more people along and we I think we got a call from someone in Canada and you're like wow we've
reached someone in Canada this is this is on the second ride when when we were expecting maybe I
(29:52):
don't know 20 people or something um we're like oh we met someone from Canada who's gonna come and um
turns out he's a survivor from Auschwitz and he was a boy in Auschwitz he's also a keen cyclist and he's
gonna um he's gonna join the ride together to to retrace his steps which he was liberated from
(30:13):
and he's not only just gonna do the ride with us which is already like wow what a this is
so fantastic and amazing um but he's gonna come with his son and his wife is also gonna join and his
son's gonna join and his granddaughters are gonna ride with us too like there's something that was
(30:35):
I immediately fell in love with Marcel before I'd even met him um he'd done a uh I think he'd done
a little newspaper article a local paper in Montreal had interviewed him and I they made a little
video of him and yeah I was just before I'd even spoken to him I knew there was this strong connection
(30:57):
uh that I felt and when we met uh you know the first time we hugged it was actually outside of Auschwitz
um on the on the day of the ride I think it was the morning of the ride and we just stood there hugging
for like it must have been 10 minutes um we'd spoken on the phone but it was our first meeting yeah
(31:18):
there is that was at the end of the 2016 ride I think that must have been the year we did a tandem
together um yeah and and I said this in the documentary as well he's like this long lost brother and
even though there's a couple of generations between us we feel you know we're kindred spirits we both
(31:39):
have this shared passion of cycling um and yeah and unfortunately fortunately we have this
connection through Auschwitz and and but this is where we are and and we want to do the ride and celebrate
life today I mean that you know to when you think of the the darkness I mean that that really is the
(32:01):
light that comes out of that tragedy um and it also is you know what is it 70 five years or so
after the war when you two came together or roughly in you know 70 something um really that that's
(32:21):
something um what was it like riding with him it you know it's really interesting because the first
time we rode uh in fact it was it was even on the on the tour lots of the the people the attendees of
of the trip wanted to come up and ask him questions and when you're riding with him you want to
(32:46):
ask him questions of like what was it like tell me tell me your story we want to know first hand
from from your experience what actually happened and was really interesting and and it's happened
I don't know about your parents but many survivors didn't talk for many many years about what
had happened and Marcel was no different um he hadn't really spoken about it and so he some survivors
(33:14):
might have like a polished story that they've told thousands of times and and this was really one of
the first times that he actually spoken about his experience and and you could see the the connection
that he still had as you said 75 years later to that memory of his father the last place of his
or him um and yeah this this it's it's very meaningful it's extremely meaningful to to to ride with him
(33:42):
I I can't I have no words for it yeah I can imagine and and you know I always knew my parents for
Holocaust survivors um my mother last saw her father at a work camp and we have a picture of him
at that work camp but it it was after Schindler's list that we convinced my sister and I convinced
(34:08):
them to do the Shoah Foundation and even even then I mean they were interviewed by a stranger
basically who come to the house and we learned a lot but you you could still see and that was 1994
ish how difficult it was for them to speak about what had happened you know so long
(34:34):
after this is why it's so important I mean especially now we life there are some certain
season life and and at some point in the future there won't be any survivors left to tell their
story directly and we are at a stage now where we have survivors who we can get testimony from
(34:58):
still and we should take advantage of that as as as much as we can and to learn as much as we can
I don't know what's going to happen in the future when there aren't when it when it's
are there educators and second generation there's less of a direct connection
and I think it's extremely important that we continue this exactly what you're doing with education
(35:21):
piece because although the the world needs people like us who are going to try to get the word out
try to explain what happens so that we can try to prevent these things from happening again
100 percent you know it like I said backstage it took me a long time you know I realized you and I
(35:45):
having this conversation is because of the family who risked 11 lives for my mother and grandmother
and the other family that you know for my father you know they were helped as well I don't know
them as well I am still very connected to the family that helped my mother and grandmother
they they are still a part of my life which is and and will be forever their their family
(36:12):
what have you learned through your friendship with Marcel about the impact the Holocaust had on him
um I mean one of the one of the most powerful things that that I've seen from Marcel directly is that
the trauma the trauma is is never eradicated like you can you can hear it in Marcel's story you can hear
(36:42):
it in his voice you can see it in in in his face like he can be transported back to those traumatic
experiences that he had in our shirts immediately and we we we always talk about sort of time
hills or wounds but it it doesn't and no it it does not you know I wanted to speak up in 2017
(37:10):
about what my you know both of my parents were gone in 2017 but after the Charlottesville
Virginia I don't know if you recall that you know um incident and seeing for myself those visuals
of the men holding teaky torches and screw you know shouting Jews will not replace us
it took me to a place that I I know my mother knew anti-semitism still existed when she was alive
(37:39):
but that was to it to an extreme that I think it would have sent her you know under the bed I really
and sort of glad she wasn't there to see that and to see where we are today even because I don't
you know what happened in Israel on October 7th I can imagine what that would have done
and what it has done to other Holocaust survivors it's um it's incredibly upsetting and
(38:08):
I I personally feel very powerless a little bit of time um I think one of the only things that I
actually can have control of is through sort of Holocaust education and trying to get the word out
which is why I'm so proud that this film has has been made and I'm a part of it and and that it's
(38:32):
trying to help the world become more educated about what what can happen in humanity what has happened
many times over um and we should look we need to learn from these these horrible mistakes and learn
that it's a it's a very slippery slope um the themes in the in the documentary about this dehumanization
(38:54):
process and from each stage it's very it's very easy to get from one stage to another and and
we and it's going to happen very quickly yeah while speaking of the film what did you think
when you were approached when you and Marcel were approached that they wanted to make this film what
was your first reaction um my first reaction is who are these crazy people who want to talk to me
(39:22):
who want to document our our connection it um but no when I first spoke to Mark over the phone
I think we spoke for several hours um and he really understood kind of it's not just uh the the
ride is a great story in itself but there's also a wider message of education that can also
it's a great backdrop exactly yes um it's a hook it's the same as getting people to come to the
(39:49):
education on the trip it's like do let's go on a fun bike ride oh by the way you need to learn these
things it's uh yeah um and then I got to know Tim as well and Lisa and the whole crew and
we came up with this I can I don't want to ruin things that are in the yeah definitely don't I didn't
(40:11):
because I didn't want to talk about the end of the movie at all because that's so great um so
we did some filming and it was it was wonderful to sort of document our connection with with
me and myself that's something that I'm gonna hold for the rest of my life and and be very proud to be
to be part of um I think they've done a great job and to go back to my original I never expected this
(40:37):
but my original trip to Auschwitz when I was standing there and thinking wow the whole world should
learn more about this and now like I've written a book and I actually filmed my original ride and I
have this very indie indie movie um and these guys have taken it to a much higher level much more
professional level and it's it's fantastic that it's there and very I'm very proud to be part of it
(41:03):
did you and Marcel get to watch it together we did there was a premiere in crackout last year at the
ride and yeah we were sitting right next to him and my wife was also uh eight and a half months pregnant
with our third son uh so that was that was nice that we got him to see it through the belly
(41:25):
we all there was it was really really nice and and very I mean there was not a dry eye in that house
I think that night it was it was the day after the ride and everyone was already emotional and exhausted
that then uh you are you are no matter what those things yep at the end you're emotional so I can't
(41:48):
imagine watching that after for sure um what was Marcel's reaction was he was he was he happy that
you know he shared his story yeah I think he he was they captured his story in an overwhelming
(42:10):
way that he like he gave the proverbial thumbs up for the way that they captured it they told
they told it the way that he remembered it and I think that's that's extremely powerful to know
that this is really accurately what happened and that this is and this is how he remembers it
(42:33):
and it's told others in that same way and that's how we educate you know it's the truth of the story
Marcel turned 90 last September how's he doing? He's doing well he's now back in Israel
with not just his son and his granddaughters but also his great grandchildren he's got three great
(42:56):
grandchildren now which is amazing um I'm not sure they're old enough to ride yet I think there are
a couple of the oldest is two or three maybe now um but yeah no it's it's very he's doing okay
obviously Israel is a it's a tough place to be these days but but as always Marcel is in high
(43:18):
spirits wow yeah that that to me what I would feel like that would be a scary place
in the climate it is for him because it it must bring back some memories it's really interesting he's
and I found this with a lot of Holocaust survivors they're often quite
(43:44):
calm or forgiving or empathetic even themselves I think they they in particular have learned a lot
of of life and and they they've experienced a lot of life and Marcel is extremely mature and
he's very insightful about the whole thing he's very balanced and and yeah wow you said the book
(44:12):
are you releasing the book or is it out already I printed a few hundred copies from myself and my friends
but I will make sure that I send you one you you should definitely you know make it available absolutely
I'm not even on the on the rides site yeah maybe it's part of it as especially as part of this
documentary coming out we could yeah correct you get get a lot of exposure so for anyone watching
(44:39):
Robert who might you know hear 60 miles and and are feeling scared or intimidated what would you
say to them to get them to join ride for the living there's lots of things I could say I could say
don't worry if you well firstly 60 miles is not a huge long way with the bilitrating you could
(45:03):
definitely do that and even if you can't do the ride you can still come and do the educational
piece and maybe even ride the first hundred meters or a few miles if you like there's a support vehicle
to come and help any stragglers it's all very well organized now not like the first year where we got
lost a few times so it's a very powerful event and yeah come along to crack it on and experience
(45:29):
ride for the living well Robert thank you so much for doing this the film for the living
has a screening next Wednesday evening at the Miami Jewish Film Festival at the O Sinema South
Beach the link is down below for both for the ride ride for the living yeah for the living
(45:53):
documentary ride for the living the ride and the Miami Jewish Film Festival such a pleasure to
meet you and I am we are you and I are gonna stay in touch because I I would love to have you share
your knowledge if I can ever get over there experience it's so very very nice to meet you Alan thank
(46:17):
you and thank you for doing this well appreciate truly thank you for creating this and continuing to
you know speak up because I think you know there are many other Jewish individuals who are
are scared to speak up truly because of what is going on in the world I have a holocaust survivor
(46:41):
in my family who's in her 90s and she sort of gets very nervous every time I post something you know
and and worries for me but knowing that I would not be here without all of the other people who risk
their lives it's the and knowing that you know my how far my parents came from that place it's something
(47:07):
I have to do you know I I proudly wear my high you know so well I'm gonna do we definitely do
thank you again for being here thanks Alan cheers thanks everybody thank you to Robert Desmond for
joining us from Poland today and for creating ride for the living for more information on the ride
(47:33):
go to ridefortheliving.org the next ride takes place June 25th through June 29th and for more
information on the documentary please visit for the livingmovie.com and then don't forget remember
if you're in Miami the screening is on January 15th as I leave you tonight remember we all have
(47:53):
choices to make in life speak up do the hard things and let's all fight hate for good I truly
believe conversations like this can change the world around us war is certainly not the answer feel
free to share this episode or any of these episodes with your friends and family and until the next
(48:14):
conversation please stay safe
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