History of Psychedelic Mysticism with Jay Dyer

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Post me those.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
The hell.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
C all right, welcome everybody. We're back with my good
buddy David Patrick Harry, who is now doctor David Patrick Harry.
Don't you dare fail to leave out that PhD. He's
got the ability to write dissertations, he can do surgeries.

(00:32):
He's a doctor now he can do it all. Just kidding. Congratulations,
doctor d.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Thanks brother, I appreciate that. You know, it's been a
long time in the making, and I remember talking to
you back in like twenty twenty one, twenty two about
and I changed my dissertation topic so I had to
basically restart after doing all the research to start on
one which is actually gonna tie with today's stream because
the initially I was going to do one on the
history of psychedelic mysticism, which and got changed to transhumanism.

(01:01):
So finally glad to be done with that, and pretty
anxious to finally get that published and have an actual
physical book to sell and go along with some of
my research and work. So I appreciate the congratulations and
thanks for having me on to I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, I caught the debate that you you got you
guys had as your sort of panel debate with your
gnostic dude, and I was just I was just realizing
how like it seems like gnostics and cult leaders like
they all kind of drift in the domain of looking
more and more like Manson. They all kind of like
take a Manson vibe and aesthetic.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, he was convinced that, you know, the whole Rigaman role,
that Jesus was a mushroom, which comes out of John
Marco Allegro's book. It's like the Sacred Mushrooms.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
When you said that, I was going to ask you
about Allegro, but we'll get to that here in a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, okay, Yeah, well I'll save it from when we
get to it then.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, well before we get to before we get to
all that. So, you know, you've had a pretty wild,
exciting journey. I mean, you had, you know, time that
you spent overseas. You were in China for a long time.
Did you get into a lot of like did you
study kind of Eastern Eastern philosophy during that period in

(02:18):
your life? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Uh, during my undergrad so I grew up kind of
like conservative Methodist, and I remember I took a Bible
course at my university during undergrad and it was by
a critical scholar who wasn't Christian, and so I was
introduced like the multiple multiple authorship theory of the Gospels
and the syncretism between the Epic of Gilgamesh and just
totally annihilated this naive methodist Christianity I grew up with.

(02:44):
And so I took another course on intro to World
religions and became really interested in Daoism, Buddhism specifically, but
also also Hinduism and just Eastern mysticism generally speaking. And
so I did to study abroad trips to southern China
at Sunyat, sin junk Shandashue and Guangzhou, and that was

(03:06):
really eye opening because Chinese culture is not the antiquated
Confucian Dallas blend that most people think. I mean, they're
very pragmatic, like capitalist oriented people, so they are not
very much interested in some of that ancient history that
I liked. But yeah, I spent two summers there and
was really interested in the Eastern mysts. At that time.
I was like getting into Alan Watts and that type

(03:28):
of stuff and thinking that this perennial spirituality somehow led
to like ultimate universal truth so yeah, that was a
go ahead.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
No, I mean yeah, I was just trying to refresh
myself on I know, you spent time over there, and
I remember you saying that when you came back, you know,
you realized, like this wasn't really the the mysticism that
I expected it to be. The Chinese people weren't really
that into it that you said. They were very pragmatic
and basically kind of a pretty much just capitalist for

(03:59):
the most part, I guess, But how and then you
and then you kind of got more into focusing academically
on writing originally on shrooms or you said you changed
the original thesis. What did it change from?

Speaker 2 (04:15):
So? Uh that was during undergrad and I finished the
capstone project was on theories of magic. So I was
interested in the ways in which some of the founders
of the field of religious studies began to categor categorize
the difference between magic and religion and science. That was
a you know, uh, Frasier and Taylor and those types

(04:36):
of guys, those early sociologists Durkheim. And then during my
master's degree, which was at the University of Illinois, I
was deeply embedded into the psychonauts psychedelic mysticism worldview, Terence mckinna,
Timothy Leary, Robert Anton Wilson, you know, the all those
same characters. And during the Masters program, I worked with

(04:58):
an early Christian scholar and focused on really gnosticism and
hermeticism during the time of the kind of the first
three hundred years of Christianity and looking at that cultural
malu And then there was a Native American scholar doctor
treat at the University of Illinois, and with him I
did a research project on like psychedelic shamanism, and at

(05:18):
that time I was completely convinced of this sort of
perennial hermetic, magical, psychedelic worldview. But that my time there,
especially working with the early Christian scholar, is that he
told me one time he spent like a whole year,
year and a half writing an article, and I was
asking him about it during office hours. He's like, yeah,

(05:38):
I essentially write this. There's one other scholar in Europe
then they study the exact same thing and he spends
all his time to write articles. And essentially it's just
a handful of other academics around the world that are
even engaging in that conversation and I realized, damn, that
your whole career is just doing research for like three
or four other people to actually interpret and understand. I thought, man,

(05:59):
I I don't want to do any historical scholarship. It
seems kind of boring. And so when I applied for
the PhD program, initially I got accepted to study people
who are spiritual but not religious and why they appropriate
certain symbols. So, anybody who's familiar with the rise of
the nuns inne that's not in u n Those are

(06:20):
people that when they fill out a Pew Research Center
like religious demographic in the United States, they fill out
the very bottom selection, which is none of the above,
and that incorporates atheists, agnostics, but mostly people who are
spiritual not religious, which is like eighty five percent of
that cohort. So the majority of the people who are
nuns are actually people who identify as I'm spiritual, but

(06:42):
I'm not religious. And I think it was twenty eighteen
that that nun category became the and they differentiate Protestant
from Catholicism, but it became the like thirty eight percent,
like the biggest single demographic in the Pew Research Center,
And so it was a kind of a hot topic.
That's why I got for it. And during that period

(07:03):
I actually read this book right here of the Psychedelic Gospels,
which is going to come up in our conversation. And
actually doctor Jerry Brown was on my PhD committee. So
the people that were on my PhD committee had a
you know, very different They weren't Orthodox Christians, they had
different interpretations of stuff. But what his research did was
basically show that these frescoes that arrive really from the

(07:26):
late nine hundreds and into the very early thirteen hundreds
depicted like this weird mushroom relationship with Christ and people
during that time really began to argue, based on John
Marco Allegro and tying all this stuff, well, look, this
is evidence that Christianity used magic mushrooms. And at that
time I was I had a previous YouTube channel promoting psychedelics,

(07:49):
and so I thought, oh, that's great. Well, even as
a psycho nod. When I read the book and then
did a research paper on that topic, I came to
the conclusion that this really wasn't connected with his historical Christianity.
I wasn't even a Christian at the time. What it
was tied to was the resurgence of a Gnostic heresy
that came from the East and entered into southern France,

(08:09):
the Cathars, the Albagensians, and so where they were finding
a lot of this evidence, be it in Germany and France,
northern Italy and even places in Turkey. There were always
around these sort of Gnostic heresies. So I wrote a
paper not arguing that it was the historical Eucharist, but
actually there were Gnostic practices, and that led to another

(08:32):
research paper I wrote trying to look at Gnostic sects
like the Carpocrations and the Borbarites who were actually engaging
in explicit psychedelic and debrigating use for these magical gnostic
initiation purposes. So from there I thought, man, I bet

(08:52):
because I was familiar with at least Eastern Orthodoxy having icons.
I thought, man with all those icons, because when you
look at some of the evidence here it is sort
of I kind of graphic if you will, like this
is in this right here is the depiction of Adam
and Eve at the bottom of the Jesse tree in Hildesheim, Germany,

(09:13):
and clearly they're pulling these little white balls off and
eating them, which again was insinuated by the author, and
other people have looked at it at some type of
psychedelic aminitemyscaria use. So I thought, man, I wonder if
Eastern Orthodox he's gonna have all this stuff. So I
took a PhD Course on the history and theology of
the Orthodox Church, and that didn't and so I was

(09:35):
ingratiated to Orthodoxy from that. Definitely didn't find any of
the mushrooms I found in these cathar frescoes, but became
aware of the worldview in the paradigm. I thought, wow, that.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Let me ask you a question. Hold on, I say,
let me ask your question. So, just for my own
interest in research, I remember encountering this idea, probably probably
around twenty ten eleven twelve was the first time I
heard this idea, maybe a little bit early, maybe two
thousand and seven or eight, And I think it was
like the early early phases of like the Joe Rogan
remember when Joe Rogan started out and he was doing

(10:10):
podcasts on his couch, and I remember them discussing this,
you know, el John A Lagro's book, and so first
question is is a Legro the first one to pause
of this theory or this other book that you're talking about.
And second question, uh, are they actually looking at frescoes

(10:31):
that actually have mushrooms or are they interpreting the frescoes
to be mushrooms? And they and but they're actually you
said they're cathar or frescoes. So what how much of
this how much of its bullshit? How much of it's real?
I want to try to say.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Sure so John marcro Alegro's book, The Sacred Mushroom in
Across is First, he worked on the Dead Sea scrolls.
He was one of the scholars, and he was an
expert in Semitic languages and Samerian and stuff like that. Well,
apparently there was some time type of problem he had
with some of the other scholars because they weren't presenting

(11:05):
all the translations and stuff they had found. So he
wrote this book arguing, based on linguistics and etymology, that
Christianity emerges from a mushroom fertility cold, that Jesus Christ
was not a historical person, that the name Jesus actually
came from a Samerian word for semen dripping mushroom, and

(11:27):
that this was the sort of origins and that because
of the dogmatization of Christianity and the institutional forming of it,
that they cleanse the inebriating Eucharist and made it essentially
a sober symbol as opposed to what the or the
early Christians or some of the ancient period that they
are engaging with. So that has been totally debunked at

(11:49):
this point. That book is only regurgitated by the psychedelic
psychoknot culture. I double checked today just looking at like academia,
find a single linguist, a single classicist, and these are
atheist scholars. These aren't Christians or a single religious studies
scholar that that still argues that John Marco Allegro's book

(12:10):
has any validity to it.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
I know I did, and I knew he was actually
eventually sort of kicked out of academia because he had
some other weird theories that he tried to push beyond
just the mushroom thing. But that guy that you guys
had on the stream, he was saying, Christ is the
the mushroom is the flesh of Christ, or Christ is
the flesh of God. Is that an allegro idea?

Speaker 2 (12:32):
That is an allegro idea. Yeah, and that and and
he and it's not I mean Gnostics were doing that.
So we know for the fact that carpent Crations and
the Barbarites and some of these other groups they were
claiming the same thing. Now, gnosticism is kind of a
dubious term because there's totally there's so many different schools
in the ancient period, and they're competing with each other.
So the Valentinians and the o Fights or their Barbarites,

(12:54):
these they're not friendly per se. They're actually competing for
a sort of dominance on the Gnostic interpretation. So those
things were occurring. They were using aneebriating substances and claiming
this was like the flesh of the gods, which is
actually the title of one of McKinnon's books, The Food
of the Gods, which is getting back to psilocyphin much that.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
One I've read. Now, when you were showing those pictures,
were you saying those were like frescoes and reliefs that
were Catharai reliefs that had mushrooms.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Or you're all in the area, yeah, where the cathars were,
and so like some of the so this like this
one right here, this is the famous one in Plaine
Cult France. This is the depiction of Adam and Eve
and it clearly looks like some type of a mushroom fresco. Now,
the Plain Karlt Chapel, if you look into it, was
actually created by the Knights Hospitallers, which according to at

(13:43):
least my theory, is that many of these crusading groups,
including the Knights Templars, kind of rediscovered these ancient gnostic
heresies when they got to the Holy Land and they
brought them back. So this like Plain Karalt Chapel was
built by the Hospitallers and it has this really weird fresco. Now,
no it's not used anymore, but this fresco you can
actually still go visit. Now, another church in France depicts

(14:06):
like this is the entrance of Christ, like his entry
into Jerusalem, and you can see all these guys holding
what appeared to be these red mushrooms and like once
extending one out to Christ. And then if you follow
that chapel around you'll see here is this one is
the purification of Isaiah's lips, where it looks like God's
handing out a sort of mushroom cap. And then if

(14:29):
you follow the chapel around at the top. Then it
gets to the Towers of Jerusalem and these guys look
like they're cutting down mushrooms. And then the very last
depiction in the chapel is the Last Supper, and of
course you see these same mushrooms then cut up and
placed on the table here. So regarding how much of

(14:50):
it is fake or how much of it is just
pure interpretation, and how much is their actual evidence, I
would argue for some of these churches, I mean, it's
hard to come to a different conclusion. Now, some of
this other stuff, you know, like the Great Canterbury Salter
is used to argue like the creation of plants right
here is fun Guy. Now I've actually looked into that

(15:11):
and the way that they're presented as fun Guy is
actually used in different iconography, and it's not trying to
depict mushrooms. It's just a sort of esthetic. But the
Hildesheim Chapel, as I was talking to about this one,
right here on the front doors Bishop Bernard who was
head of that parish in Germany, hild his Heim, Germany,

(15:33):
the metal doors going into the church actually have anatomically
correct psilocybin mushrooms of that area in Germany. So I
think some of it is legitimate that the that something
was going on in the historical period. Of all this evidence,
some of it, I think is dubious interpretation, claiming, oh,

(15:55):
that's a mushroom right there, but it's all within, you know,
we can't I can't find any evidence before like the
late nine hundreds, which is right around the time where
these nosti groups. You know, during the Byzantine period, they
hated gnostics and so if you were in like say
Anatolia proper, you were either forced to recant your heresy

(16:17):
and convert or you had to get kicked out of
the empire. And so tons of these nostic groups actually
begin to move towards Armenia, and so you get like
the tone Drachians and the Polisians, and then from there
eventually they they moved to Bulgaria where you get the
Boga mills, and it's believed that the Cathars are a

(16:37):
form of the Boga mills that move then further into
western Europe. So the way I look at as the
historical progression is you know, around the Mediterranean area northern
Africa ancient period, and then it moves eastward and then eventually,
through more persecution, it moves westward and ends in south
southern France, southern Germany and northern Italy that type of area.

(16:58):
And then during the Pope Innocent the Third you have
the beginning of the Inquisition and the killing of the
Albergensians for these heresies, and also the leaders of the
Knights Templars, which eventually then go up to Scotland where
Robert the Bruce accepts all these Knights Templars and according
to their own legends, they are the founders of the

(17:20):
Scottish Freemasonry, and that they then institute these ancient gnostic
rituals into Scottish Freemasonry. And that's also echoed by Albert Pike.
So that's not me just making a theory. That's what
these people actually claim. And I have this Book of
Chemically Stone, which is by P. D. Newman who is
a Freemason and is claiming the exact same thing, that

(17:40):
Freemasonry is actually based off these ancient gnostic and nebriating rituals.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, for those that are interested in the medieval heresies,
there's a really well known scholarly text by Malcolm Lambert
that some years back I read, and I took a
whole bunch of notes on it. If you want a
full sort of three hours our walk through of that,
you can find that on my channel. It's called Medieval Heresies.
And then we go through the Bogga Mails. We go
through the history of the Cathariye all the way up

(18:10):
to the Waldensians, and how that Gnostic trend actually ends
up influencing a lot of Protestantism. But let's rewind a
little bit, go back to the time of those many,
many Gnostic sects that we were talking about. I remember
reading some years ago Aeronaeus is Against Heresies, and in
the first few hundred pages he details dozens and dozens

(18:30):
and dozens of varying Gnostic sects, all kind of competing,
like you noted, and he does mention several of them,
at least a few that I can recall. I remember
one of them is a guy named Marcus, and Marcus
had his own cult, and he was a ritual magician,
and he was utilizing some form of consciousness altering, inebriating substance.

(18:54):
And Ernais talks about this, and when Jamie, now we're
on a journey to Las Veigs, Vegas last year on
our own little esoteric journey to Vegas, we read on
the way there, on the way back the Cambridge Companion
to Western Mysticism and Esoterism. And this isn't I'm not
trying to like stump you or quiz you or anything.

(19:14):
I just want to get your take on something that
I had not really seen before, which kind of seems
like it would be obvious and it's right up your alley.
But the person that wrote the first chapter on the
Ancient Mysteries goes into great detail discussing the the Eleusinian
mysteries and the Greek esoteric cults, maybe a little bit

(19:38):
prior to the Gnostic era, the Mithra cult, and what
the conclusion that this person came to was that most
likely in the Eleusinian mysteries, and you might take you
may have a different view, I'm not sure, but that's
what I want to ask you about it. They argue,
this person argues that it's a death and resurrection journey

(19:58):
of the soul, sort of rich that goes on when
you're given the kaikon, which is a hallucinogenic drink, and
then you sort of go through the demeter persephone underworld
resurrection sort of rituals, and I think there's even like
a crazy dance involved. Just wanted to know if you

(20:19):
came across anything like that, or what do you think
of the kaikon No.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
I actually think that there is some legitimacy to the
kekion theory. And so what you're referring to, the book
that founded this is called The Road to eleusis unveiling
the secret of the mysteries, and so our Gordon Wawson,
who will probably come up. He's famous for actually re
if you want to say, rediscovering, but at least popularizing
psilocybin mushrooms. In nineteen fifty seven he wrote an article

(20:48):
in Life magazine. He did this shamanistic retreat with Maria
Sabina and he wrote about it. And this was kind
of the first time, at least in the modern period
in the West where there's explicit discussion about the psychedelic mushrooms.
He sends those mushrooms then to Albert Hoffman, who is
the synthesizer of LSD in nineteen thirty eight, has his
famous bicycle Day April was it nineteenth? Nineteen forty three,

(21:11):
where he accidentally consumes it and then rides his bicycle home.
And then Karl ap Ruck, who's a classicists who all
of his work is trying to validate even Christianity. His
thing is trying to validate the legitimacy of psychedelic use
in all this ancient period. He uses his skills as
a classics collar to do so. So this book argues

(21:31):
that based on pottery that they found that the kikkion
is some type of ergot fungus, and so ergot is
a fungus that grows on barley and ryegrain, and it's
common in again across Greece and where the Alosinian mysteries
took place. And as you said, that's where they talk
about persephones quest it's about persephones, death and rebirth, going

(21:54):
to Haitedites and coming back. It's believed that anybody who
is a who's who in the ancient period participated in
these mysteries and they were taken into some type of
enclosed almost like a theater space. Yeah, they would consume
the beverage, they would be revealed the mysteries, and then
hours later they would leave and then they would be
initiated into this ancient mystery. I actually think that there's

(22:17):
something legitimate about that and ergot in Ergamine, which is
found in some of those potteries, is a precursor to LSD.
So Albert Hoffman, who synthesizes the psilocybin mushrooms from Maria
sapina by way of our Gordon Wawson and discovered LSD
about twenty over twenty years previously, they start synthesizing various

(22:41):
forms of ergamine and come to the conclusion that in
a lab at least they could construct an LSD like
beverage through this. And so it's believed that they don't
know the exact process, but somehow they would allow this
ergot and they would mix it with probably wine and
then some measure that we don't exactly. No, they're able
to take out the toxins because there's actually quite a

(23:02):
few toxins in the fungus, and then you could consume
this beverage and get, you know, initiate inebriated through this
and get initiated into the mystery. So I actually think
that there's something there. Now. I I don't support some
of the larger conclusions that these scholars have made, but
I think it's the best explanation for what was going

(23:23):
on in eleusis because it was some type of beverage.
And I think that at least through some of the
chemistry that they've done, that's probably that's probably most likely
of what they actually well.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Probably you're tripping balls. They take you sort of underneath
the temple or something, and then it's the book describes
it as like then they bring you out the climax
of the rituals, sort of like a light comes on
and then you see like the goddess you see Isis
or something, Yeah, or persephone. But it's funny you say that,
because yeah, I just looked in the footnote of disguised

(23:55):
paper and first footnote is our Gordonson Albert Hoffman, the
very book that you decided at the bottom is right,
So yeah, you're absolutely right that that's where they're pulling from.
Did you a little side note did you know or
did you come across anything pointing out that according to
John Marx and his book on the history of m

(24:17):
k Ultra, that it was Gordon Wasson was funded by
the Macy Foundation, and then that was kind of a
original sort of mk ULTRACA project.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
There are some I've looked into the R. Gordon Watson connection.
He was clearly funded by some of the major moguls
at the time, and of course he was working for
JP where he was a banker. Yeah, yeah, which makes
it very again, very strange that this high level banker
working for JP, Morgan just so got contacted and told

(24:50):
to go to this place and meet this shamanis in
Mexico and then him and his wife Valentina go and
participate and then kind of make it now known to
the first time in the Western world about these ancient
psychedelic mysteries through through shamanic practices. I do think that
there's something something behind the funding, and they traveled all

(25:12):
over the world. I mean, his big thing was trying
to solve the Soma mystery, which is one of the
gods in the rig Veda, and Soma is mentioned over
a hundred times. It is a god that you consume.
It strengthens you, it illuminates you, it gives you courage. Again,
potentially a connection even back with the berserkers in Europe
who took mushrooms because they felt like they were strengthened,

(25:36):
they had courage and they could go fight in battle.
But our Gordon Watson along with Timothy Leary, I mean
Timothy Leary also made a comment that he was, you know,
you got to pick teams like the Yankees or the
or the Dodgers, and he chose the CIA, and so
so there is some real interesting, potentially nefarious connections with

(25:56):
an mk ultra. By the way, this is the intro
saying thing to your point. His article r Gordon Wawson's
article about Maria Sabinez in nineteen fifty seven, and we
know that the mk ultra project began in nineteen fifty six.
So hmm, interesting little timeline there that mk Ultra begins
a year before our Gordon Wawson goes to Mexico and
makes all this stuff famous.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, exactly. Do we know if there are any other
if we go further back, is there any evidence, if
you know, if we go back to like Babylon or Egypt,
is there evidence in those ancient cultures of something like
a consciousness altering initiation.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Certainly there's scholarship arguing for that. There's different different plants,
you know, cannabis, hayoma, progomenharmela emini, tomiscaria, psilocybin, mushrooms. There's
all these different plants that people have speculated. I've seen
multiple scholars argue that ancient Egypt was participating in some

(27:01):
of these inebriating rituals. I would assume Babylon is noted.
They're a cult and magical orientation and ritualistic framework for
those practices. I would absolutely imagine they were the earliest
historical evidence that we have really comes out of the
Indian subcontinent, as I said, through the rig Veda, and

(27:22):
this this whole soma thing, and so soma, which in
Persian is known as heyoma, which hayome is also another
inebriating substance. After you know, hundreds of years passed by
and soma develops, and in my estimation my argument is
it then is incorporated into these mythraic rights. And so

(27:46):
Mithra is not a huge He's in the rig Veda,
but he's not a huge figure. And we really don't
get these devotional cults until later. But hayoma wine drinking
like these these nebrias wine beverages, we know that that
was being taken place during these mythraic rituals. I've looked
at evidence from some scholars arguing that also orgiastic activity,

(28:10):
which is typically associated with like collective groups, inebriating experiences
they participate, and this was true for the Manicheans. So
we have descriptions from China that the Manicheans went all
the way to China and they said they're constantly consuming mushrooms,
they're debatrous, filthy people, they don't shower enough, and that
they participate in these weird sexual practices. This is according

(28:33):
to Chinese sources.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
So there was Chinese, there was hippies back then.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, the Chinese. Yeah, they're like, these Manicheans are filthy.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Manichean hippies trying to get the ancient Chinese to go
to Grateful Dead concerts.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Pretty much pretty much. And so there's an article that
I've found, and this is the is the only scholar
that I've seen make this connection. His name's Robert Bedrosian.
He's an Armenian scholar, and he actually has a of
paper where he argues that Armenia is the key to
solving the Soma mystery. And I have not seen anybody

(29:10):
but him, and I haven't even seen other scholars pick
up this article. But he argues that Armenia being in
that caucus region before it converted to Christianity, was actually
the mountains in Armenia were a fertile place for growing
these aminitomuscaria, these red and white mushrooms that could be
used ritualistically. He claims that the mythraic rituals and some

(29:31):
of the ancient mythology, the pre Christian pagan mythology of
Armenia was deeply embedded within these psychedelic cults and these
mythraic these mythraic cults and rituals, and he claims he's
got evidence and he writes about this in his article
that the Persian elite, the Zoroastrians, were actually purchasing massive
amounts of these mushrooms from Armenia to have for these

(29:53):
ritualistic purposes, and that you know, some of the elites
of the Zoroastrian Persian society would could consume these in
a ritualistic manner every year, and that they were purchasing
these from Armenia. And then he claims in his article
that he's found the continuation of the preservation of these
mushrooms all the way up towards the end of the
twentieth century in Armenia. We already just mentioned that Armenia

(30:16):
is an interesting place because that becomes a hotbed for
some of these gnostic heresies during the Byzantine period because
the Buzant teams weren't having it, so you either had
a converter you're getting kicked out, and a lot of
them went there, and it's that cultural malou that then
goes and infuses it within the bogamills in Bulgaria. So
I think there's actually something really there that Armenia is

(30:38):
the sort of historical key that unlocks the Soma mystery
that so many people have been trying to say what
it is. Terrence McKinnon believed it was like the psilocybin mushrooms.
Our Gordon Wawson argued that it was the amine to
mascaria mushroom. Others have argued it's actually cannabis. Others argue
it's pagama, harmla or hayoma. So we really don't know

(30:59):
what it is. But according to Robert Bidrosian, he claims
that it is psilocybin iminy myscarity mushrooms and that when
the Mithraic cult was at its height in Armenia that
this infused their culture and that they were actually providing
these mushrooms and these rituals for the Persian elite. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
One thing, just a little bit of a shift of
focus I noticed as I read through this text from
the Cambridge Companion on all the esoter stuff, whether it's
the ancient inebriating ritual cults, or whether it's the Gnostics,
or whether it's even Greek philosophy at times. And then
if you fast forward all the way up to modern

(31:44):
Rosicruci mysteries, or if you go all the way up
into Gerdjeff and Blovatsky, there was a commonality in this
book that I didn't expect, which was that the tendency
in Western Hermeticism, even the Middle Ages, with some of
the weirdos like Jacob Boem and Gertrude the Great, some
of these so called mystics in the history Onic, crazy

(32:06):
Roman Catholic sphere, they end up in the same revelation,
which is that the meaning and the answer of all
the mysteries is you are your own God.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
And I'm not joking. That's like common throughout this book.
It wasn't something I don't think that the author's planned.
I just think that as they work through these different traditions.
There's this underlying tendency to basically come to the revelation
that you're your own God, you determine your own reality.
Even when we get into kral Young Carl Jung just
basically thinks, as a gnostic sort of platonic figure, you're

(32:44):
projecting your subconsciousnes is projecting your external reality. You're creating
your own reality. Is that a feature that you see
as well? Did you come across this kind of stuff
and does that maybe lead us into the transhumanist side
of things?

Speaker 2 (32:59):
I would certain say what you picked up on that
thread is absolutely the case. After the ancient period, I
would argue, at least from my reading of some of
the Ancients, I mean even some of these gnostic groups,
they were on a path of deification. From their perspective,
I think they would be submissive to say that they're

(33:20):
not God or equate themselves in nature to God. But
especially after the Renaissance, so much of everything that you mentioned,
once we get Renaissance humanism and the Zohar, the cabalistic
texts of Judaism that gets written in the thirteenth century
in Spain, and that's during the Umiyat Caliphate where they
allowed the Jewish mystics, the Cabalistic mystics, the Sufis, and

(33:45):
then these Christian mystics to actually form what I would
argue becomes the Zohar. And that's where you get Giovanni
Piccadella Marendola in what they call Christian Kabbalah, and it
sort of re reinterprets man and his relationship to God,
and that then becomes I would say, the foundation for

(34:06):
the Rosicrucians, vice shop in the Illuminati. Eventually the speculative
freemasonry that emerges. So the worship of oneself, I think
is tied with this sort of general tendency as we
move closer to modernity and especially post the Enlightenment. Yeah,
that's exactly. Every single psychedelic teacher or author that I've

(34:29):
read believes that you're on a process to realize of
your unity with collective consciousness or collective divinity, something abstract
like that. That's the case with everyone that I've come across.
So I would say that's sort of this residue of
Renaissance humanism mixing with the Hermeticism and the Cabbalism and

(34:50):
all these occult theories that emerge. So you got Paracelsus,
you know, he was this very famous alchemist. He's the
inventor of laudanum, and so getting high on opium was
part of his part of his magical process. We know
Henry Cornelius Agrippa, like a lot of these major magicians.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
And press also that are on the shelf. I was
going to get those out. But what would you say,
sort of the the the underlying feature of the Renaissance
era magicians in Italy and other places in Europe and
then the rise of Rosicrucianism is this focus inward towards
a man himself. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, And it's tied with a millinery and expectation. I
think Yakima Fiore's dispensational tripartide understanding of history. I mean
that's going to connect with actually my research on transhumanism.
But that millinery and ethos that somehow were like moving
towards collective utopia. I mean, that's what the Rosicrucians were.

(35:54):
And you can't fully understand that, Malu without understanding the
impact of the Protestant Reformation and that these Protestants in
the North were seeking some sort of legitimacy against the
Catholic Church. And that's why I always say the sixteenth
century is like one of the most magical centuries in
European history. And it's during this period where you get
these Rosicruci Confessios and the vis Shop and the Illuminati,

(36:20):
John d all these different figures, Paracelsus, Grippa, all these
different people are during the sixteenth century, and so Protestantism.
When you look at somebody like Frederick the Elector Palatine,
he was trying to incorporate cabalistic hermeticism and the Rosicruci
ethos with a form of Protestantism. I mean, this is
what is ended at the first battle of the Thirty

(36:46):
Years War when he's defeated at the Battle of White Mountain.
So that whole ethos was tied with like this Protestant Christianity,
which is less sacramental, combined like the sacramentality of ritualistic magic.
We're going to create this brotherhood, this utopian king.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Well, a lot of the early first generation Rosicrucians were Lutherans,
and they were in the spheres of the Lutheran Church.
I think Johann Andre, who is believed to be one
of the compilers of the you know, Rosicrucian Manifesto or whatever,
was a famous Lutheran. Other famous Lutherans were also in

(37:26):
that sphere. Sometimes people sort of make the assumption that
Luther's Cross, you know, the famous Luther Rose, just happens
to also be a Rosicritian. Simple right. I don't know
that Luther himself was into Rosicritianism. I think you predated
that a little bit. However, there is evidence that Luther
was influenced by the Theologia Germanica, which is another one
of these mystical texts that tends to focus on sort

(37:48):
of what you get in some of these Medieval Latin,
Roman Catholic mystical texts is basically the union with God
is so intense, and it's almost because about divine simplicity
and other kind of weird esoteric ideas well. If I
become one with God truly, then I am God and
so in other words, because there's no essence inner distinction,

(38:09):
there's an uncreated grace. They don't maintain the creator creature distinction,
absolute divine simplicity. If you don't believe in creative grace
requires that you become the essence of God, so you
become God. And you actually see that in the chapter
in this text, for example, on Jacob Boheme and on
Gertrude Bell, both of them tended to say that basically,

(38:31):
in the mystical Union, you actually become God. So they're
they're throwing out sort of you know, needed theological nuances
here and basically just sort of falling into a kind
of apotheosis, which I know you've talked a lot about
on your channel and probably in your thesis, where man
just becomes his own God, not by grace but by
his own will, knowledge, gnosis, tech et cetera. All these

(38:54):
are different pathways to become your own God. One book,
I I'm curious if you've got a chance to look
at her. Ever heard about what's Michael Hoffman has a
book called a Cult Renaissance Church of Rome. Have you
heard of that?

Speaker 2 (39:05):
I have not.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
It's really good. It's right up your alley. I mean,
even though Hoffman ended up, I think he's still a
trad cat or something. But as Orthodox we would actually
pretty much agree with his critique of the Renaissance era
papacy because he's basically just arguing that as a trad
cat he's trying to make sense of Rome and what happened,
and he basically ends up reading all the way back
into the Renaissance papacy and saying, here's where things take

(39:29):
a noticeable change. Even though Hoffman doesn't know a whole
lot about the first thousand years of Christianity, he's accurate,
I think in pinpointing the turn towards the esoteric in
the Medici Renaissance era papacy, which is definitely what happened,
and hence why they promoted and love. They love the
idea of magic, Christian cabala, etcetera. That was all super

(39:52):
popular at that time, and I think that's part of
the influence and trek of Western civilization, at least Europe
in the second millennium, the papal Europe.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Right, And to your point about this the absolute divine
simplicity being a type of presuppositional framework for this form
of mysticism. It, I mean, all of this magical stuff
is tied with neoplatonism, and so this privileging of monism
is essential. And then once you incorporate inebriating substances, now

(40:25):
people can go from a rational articulation of neo platonic
values and monism to in a phenomenological experiential union with
like divinity or something. And I think both those together
are a huge catalysts. I mean, Terrence McKinnon's famous for saying,
you know, psychedelics dissolved boundaries. Yeah, I would agree with him.
That's exactly what they do. That's not necessarily a great

(40:48):
thing for him. This is how we dissolve the the
you know, the deleterious framework of history, so we can
return back to the archaic goddess and I well, we
can talk about the archaic revival. I think actually, given
the trends in culture with the LGBTQ and and the
whole Skittles community and what they're doing, it kind of

(41:09):
does feel like we're returning back to a pre Christian
period and that you know, Marshall mccleban's theories about the
the you know, the global village and how digital technology
was going to actually take us from the literate man
back to a primitive style culture. It's like, Wow, I
think there's some validity there because it feels like that's
where we're going, is that people are becoming less literate,

(41:30):
more impulsive, and has since becoming more iconic.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
To savages, making people on the savages.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yeah, so I think all those things are working together.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
So here's the question. I have something I've wondered about.
I had several brad classes where we talked about Elizabethan
Renaissance erah alchemy. We focus on you know, John Don
Ben Johnson, Edmund Spencer, a lot of these you know,
Shakespearean era writers and poets and and a lot of
them were obsessed with esoteris and a lot of people

(42:02):
don't know that. But what I've never really heard about.
We know about this possibility of maybe something going on
in terms of the Renaissance Middle Ages era with Templars
and Pico della Mirandola and these characters, and maybe they
experienced something to do with shrooms and drugs. Is there
any evidence after this period? We don't hear about drugs

(42:24):
or substances for so many centuries until more recently. So
I'm just curious, like, do we have evidence of like
experimentation in British Empire. I mean, we know about opium
being you know, used as war against you know, China
and British Empire. Uses opium, war to syops and whatnot.

(42:44):
What about are any of these is Elizabethan poets experimenting?

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Do you know? Yeah? So what during the Elizabethian era,
Opium was certainly one that was going around, and potentially
cannabis and shish. We know for a fact multiple scholars
have documented that hashish used for quote unquote mystical purposes
was already present in Spain by the thirteenth century, by

(43:10):
the time the Zohar was written, and that all these practices,
all these practices actually moved from uh Syria, Egypt, across
northern Africa and then entered into Spain. So we know
for a fact that before the re conquista of Spain,
people were using hashish and ritualistic practices due to Islamic sufi's.

(43:32):
Actually either is this from.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
The Hashimites the hashashin the assassins.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
It's tied with that, and obviously it's people question whether
the Nazari Ismaili's were they really high on hashish when
they committed these assassinations. It's a debated topic. But what
is a fact is that cultural that the culture Malu
that the Hashashins come from were actually using these practices

(43:58):
and that you can literally the Sufi use of hashish,
and then certain communities actually saying okay, no more of that,
and then it just continues to move eventually across northern Africa,
where in Morocco we have cases in the twelfth century
where we people go and are saying, yeah, the Muslims
are literally consuming hashish before they enter in the mosque
and getting high and then going to the mosque for

(44:21):
various ceremonies. When the rika Quista happens, they tried to
stamp all this hashishi use out, but be it with
Giodanno Bruno, for example, it speculated that he was actually
high on hashish when he came up with his the
belief that all the stars were actually sons. And so
by the time that uh in France in particular was

(44:43):
very infatuated with the Oriental and so by the time
the English I forget the englishman's name that wrote one
thousand and one Nights, but by the time that was written,
and especially into the Victorian era, people were absolutely experimenting
with cannabis and hishish and it was very popular, specifically
in France, and that's where you get people, you know,

(45:05):
poets and stuff in the English period going down to Paris.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
I remember like some of the Irish and you know,
famous British poets were you know, taken opium and stuff
like that. But that was the only thing I really
ever heard, and.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
It came from this belief that from again the book
the One thousand and one Nights was actually incredibly influential
in Europe for the normalization and consumption of his sheesh,
in the belief that it actually elevated you to these
ancient spiritual beliefs and truth to some sort. And that's
why so people, famous poets were actually traveling to France

(45:40):
during that period to engage in these practice, these practices
believing that the Oriental was able to preserve something that
Christianity tried to stomp out. Again, we just talked about
the Rican Quista, and they were not in favor of
these practices. So by the time just before the Victorian era,
they were like, oh, well, now we have these practices back,
just like the Orientals had, and now we're not tainted

(46:02):
by you know, the Catholic Church can't control everything we
do anymore. And so then you start getting into the
eighteen hundreds and the experimentation with nitrous oxide and anesthetics
becomes a huge thing for people to engage for mystical
spiritual purposes. I mean this is you know, by the
time of William James, so this is late eighteen hundreds,

(46:24):
early nineteen hundreds, William James, that's his first experiment. So
the whole book on his belief on definition of religion
it has to do with his nitrous oxide experiences and
arguing that these getting inebriated actually again for them allows
you to bypass the rational mind so that you can
then engage or interact with these sort of spiritual I

(46:48):
guess you could say superrational or irrational entities. So you
can literally trace even though our Gordon Wawson in nineteen
fifty seven really makes psilocybin mushroom is come onto the
stage for the first time, all before that Western Europe
was engaging in opium use laudanum, drinking various form of anesthetics,

(47:12):
nitrous oxide and then hashish. So those things were absolutely
being used from the Renaissance forward. Uh you can you
can find evidence of that throughout Western Europe.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
And of course, uh, you know, we know that Afghanistan
is a is a region Kashmir region very important going
back to ancient times for poppies for opium. So that's
an that's an ancient thing too, And there's a whole
there's a whole book on this called a Visible Empire
that's really good from Golden Fitzgrail, where you know they

(47:45):
kind of theorized that for a long time empires and
kingdoms have sought to really try to control that region,
not just because it's the gateway to Eurasia, but also
because of this you know magical poppy that grew os
there that you know can be used for these for
these rituals and whatnot. We got we're gonna super push,

(48:07):
go ahead.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Cush comes from from that Central Asian area where all
that stuff grows, and it's believed by scholars that's actually
how the Indians got it, so you know, spoking ganja
in the Indian context, like that whole tradition comes from
their proximity to to Cush in that Central Asian area.

(48:29):
And then they've incorporated into their Hindu practice, so now
you can find various practices and spiritual men that that's
literally all they do is they get high and then
do these meditations or perform yoga all day. So, yeah,
that region is incredibly important in regards to opium and
marijuana or cannabis used, that's where that stuff really comes from.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Jarhead Orthodox ten dollars says, this is a great topic.
Can people like Joe Rogan and his guests stop trying
to convince everybody the early Christians were on shrimp and
then icons are all shrooms because there's a cow in
the icon. Yeah, it's kind of funny. I didn't even
realize until that guy was on with you guys that
I heard the cows somehow. Oh, because cow's poop, that
that means that there's That was the dumbest argument I've

(49:14):
ever heard. But I mean, that is that just a
I mean, are they just like making up stuff? Like
where does this idea that because there's a cow it
means I mean, are there even hallucinogenic mushrooms that grow
in the Middle East? Maybe they are, And I just
don't know, but it seems like a climate maybe that
wouldn't foster this. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
I I mean, I I'm not sure I would. I
wouldn't be surprised, given again my understanding of Hinduism. If
you know, some people think it's an astrological thing of
why they don't eat.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
No, not Hinduism. I'm talking about the the like Middle East, Israel, Palestine,
like that region that area. Is there a growth of
a mushroom or hallucinogenic? I mean, I know there's not
a yoti.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Yeah, they don't have payout. I am not sure I
know they have like the acacia bush. Like, that's the
argument from actually Rick Strassman. He's the he's the the
DMT researcher that really was behind the Spirit Molecule documentary
of Joe Rogan. It's all based on this book. And
in this book they put them on IV drips of

(50:24):
d MT. And in this book he claims that the
acacia bush has DMT and if you could distill it
in the proper way, that these people could be inebriated.
He makes the argument which I've never seen another scholar
actually try to validate that the burning bush, what he
calls the myth of the burning bush with Moses, was

(50:44):
actually an acacia bush and that he was getting high
on DMT in front of that burning bush. And that's
where this whole thing comes from.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Okay, So I was gonna say I mean, the rest
of these things, it seems like I have to be imported.
You know, maybe they were. I remember some druggy gnostic
Ish person at one time trying to argue that, you know,
when the Israelites are in the desert and they wake
up and the the mana is there, Oh, the mana

(51:12):
must be you know, shrooms or something, And I'm like,
I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't be mushrooms in the desert.
That doesn't seem like a thing that would grow in
the desert.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yeah, in the desert, I doubt there's Again, according to
some of the these guys, find the most minuscule amounts
of anything that's psychoactive and then and then create a
theory of how this could be ritualistically used in some manner.
In regards to psilocybin, obviously it grows out of cow dung,
so I could see potentially. But again with the Alasinian mysteries,

(51:42):
that's in the Mediterranean, and that just has to do
with a fungus. And so if the Alasinian mystery in
the Kakekion is some sort of ergoamine fungus, well maybe
there's something going on around that period or those areas,
I wouldn't be surprised, but I do not know of
any specific psychoactive substance that is indicative or exclusive in

(52:05):
that region.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
What about this has kind of changed the focus a
little bit because of something that pops in my head
A lot is a lot of the Russo Finnish Nordic
stories and tales have this sort of father mushroom father.
It's not Father Christmas, but he's like, I don't know,
like ice claws, like snow claws version of Santa. There's actually,

(52:32):
I forget the Russian name for like father snow time
whatever he is. But there's like an older pagan version
of like you know what I'm talking about, Like yeah,
And then sometimes in the Russo Finnish sort of pagan traditions,
this is linked to mushrooms at times.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Have you heard this, Yeah, the it's kind of it's
kind of like the John Marco Legro where this is
it's blown out of proportion, where people argue that Christian
Christmas is rooted within this pagan Amititomyscaria mushroom ritual. But
at least from what we actually do know regarding that
argument is that these eskimo people that live closer towards

(53:15):
the North Pole and the Siberia, that they do practice
a form of shamanism, and that they do ingest amity
and Muscaria mushrooms, and that they do pluck these things,
and that they drink the urine of reindeer because it filters.
So the amity muscary mushroom is actually toxic, has muskemol

(53:36):
in it, and so you have to let it sit
and dry for an extensive period of time before it
can be consumed or you'll get really sick. That's why
they say it's a toxic mushroom. You can kill you. Well,
if you just eat it when it's wet, it can
kill you. And so they have to let this thing
dry or another mechanism is allow the reindeers, which we
do know that reindeers do eat this particular mushroom, and

(53:57):
then you drink their urine, which we know that they did.
And so there's an argument that the mythology of Santa
Claus flying around on a sleigh behind reindeer dressed red
and white is tied with this sort of ritualistic use
of the aminimscaria mushroom. They claim that the reasons we
put presents under the Christmas tree is because these mushrooms

(54:19):
grow under coniferous trees, and that they're like the gifts
that the gods have given the people. And then they
take the presence and they set them on the tree
so that they can dry in the sun, and that
the reindeers consume them, and because the reindeers can get
high along with the people, that they fly across the
world together, and that Santa Claus is like Shaman Claus

(54:41):
or something like that. Certainly those practices do exist. But
once you then try to say that's the origin of Christmas, like,
that's just an achronistic ahistorical argument. It just doesn't hold
up to then argue, which they do, is that the
entirety of Christian Christmas is a solar ritual that's tied

(55:02):
with these pagan practices that is reincorporated into the birth
of God, which is really due to the death and
rebirth of the people that ate the aminy Muscary mushroom.
So regards to the grand narrative, there's no historical evidence
for that. In regards to the specific use of the
Siberian Eskimo native peoples, yes, but then to take what

(55:23):
those people did and then say, look at Christmas, it's
all that. No, that's not a strong argument at all.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
What I was trying to remember the name I couldn't
think of is he's called dead Moreause and that's that's
the Russian pagan name for Father Frost or grandfather Frost.
And if you look at him, it's funny because he
looks kind of like the way he's drawn and the
way they make him up, he kind of looks like
a pagan version of like Bishop Nicholas. He's like, yeah,

(55:52):
he's an interesting character, but it reminds me too of
there's a really funny kind of classic episode of Mystery
Science Theater called Jack Frost, and then riff tracks the
more recent instantiation. They redid the old Mystery Science Theuitter version.
It's nineteen sixty four movie that they kind of riff
on and make fun of. It's really right up this
alley because they basically take a bunch of the Russo

(56:14):
Finnish pagan myths and tales and they put it into
this really weird trippy movie with Father Frost and with
Father Mushroom, all these weird sort of pagan characters. Everybody
should watch it because it ties in perfectly what we're
talking about. I'm gonna put in the checks. Actually found
it on YouTube. But every time we talk about this,

(56:37):
I think of Father Frost, and it makes me think
of this movie because in the movie, before Father Frost arrives,
you have to have this encounter with Father Mushroom, who's
this little weird, sort of trippy dude out in the
He's a little trickster deity who exists as a gnome
in the forest. And this is again a combination of
a bunch of the mythology from that region. But Thomas

(57:01):
trezier Be can remember what's up?

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Man.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
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Speaker 2 (57:23):
You don't need to split it, man, just I appreciate
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Speaker 1 (57:26):
Well, you guys, if you want to also, I've got
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(57:47):
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Autonomy or a marketplace that's in the show description too.
You can get my lost we course. We'll talk about
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(58:10):
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I think this is the book that Jamie, my wife has,
I think she has that book. Me and Eugene five dollars.
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(58:31):
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Speaker 2 (58:40):
You're huge in that community.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
I am growing. I'm gonna be like the I'm gonna
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Thank you, c K appreciate that. Harvest five dollars. Somehow
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I'm here.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Well.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
We do all kinds of stuff, so that might be
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the place. We do it all here. But thank you
for being with us. Harvest Shairers for twenty sex, which

(59:22):
is some shitty currency that ends up being about thirty cents,
But thank you for that. Dph are you Let me
preface this with I don't know if he is, but
I am familiar. Of course, we had a bad interaction
with this individual some years back, and I think this
person has ended up in Mormonism. But Kotail, are you
familiar with Jan Irvin and gnostic media claims? And he

(59:46):
was one of the characters that was on those early
Joe Rogan podcasts when Joe was first talking about alegro
and all that.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
I am familiar with Jan. I've never inner acted or
engaged with him from my understanding. He he was big
into the psychedelic stuff, and then he was like big
into calling out the intelligence agencies behind McKenna and Leary.
And then last I was aware he like changed all
of his stuff to like logos media and was Christian.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
He's Mormon.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
He's Mormon now, Okay, So yeah, I really don't follow
that guy. He was. He actually wrote a book that's
mentioned in this one, the Psychedelic Gospels, where he tried
to argue for this eucharistic mushroom theory within Christianity. So unfortunately,
his book for him, unfortunately was never touted in no

(01:00:42):
academic actually used it or cited. Even Jerry Brown says
that the research and it's very dubious, and that is
him literally interpreting anything that he could pull in regards
to mushroom or psychedelics, trying to argue that this is
the origin of Christianity.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Hush Tones says, for five dollars, we all know that
you're honorary black because you always show up later than
your lives streams are set for. Well, the explanation for
that is that Jay Dier time just also happened to
coincide with black people time, and so we actually linked
up on being late, and we decided that we're all
one people. Bro Jet for five bucks, we need David

(01:01:20):
Patrick carry on Sam Tripoli's tenfoil hat. That would be
an interesting conversation. I know Sam likes to go out
there in the weeds in terms of the psychedelic speculations,
so maybe I don't know if Cotel would you be
interested in going on some of the comedians streams?

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah, absolutely, help me to suggest Yeah please, Okay'll.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
See if Tripley is interested. Seamus twenty dollars says, have
you ever thought about consulting for Orthodox or Roman Catholics
on the issue related to converting Pagans and occultis. Both
churches have seen their exorcism ministries grow, and they say
that the growth of occultism is an issue. I'll answer

(01:02:05):
this and then I'll let Cotail answer, I don't really
know that the priests need consultation from myself. I wouldn't
call myself an expert on the occult. I've read a
lot about the occult, written some books on it in
terms of Hollywood and symbolism, but I don't really think
typically for catechisis anything like that's really necessary. Maybe just

(01:02:30):
more so, perhaps awareness that occult traditions are growing and
becoming more popular. We probably will need more and more
exorcisms as time goes by. But in the Orthodox Church,
exorcisms are typically just part of baptism. They're not. It's
not like this special ritual like in the Roman Catholic world,
the Latin rite of exorcism and all this kind of stuff.

(01:02:52):
It's a little more hollywoodized. Cotel, what do you think
about consulting Roman Catholics on occultism.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
I think that's a dubious idea. And really, for catechisis
the only thing that an Orthodox priest needs to make
aware of. To a Catechuman is that occultism and the
effectiveness of actual occult rituals is real. And I get
people that are Catechumans, they ask me that, quite well,
what do you think about magic, and it's like, well,
our paradigm says that this stuff is actually real, you

(01:03:23):
don't need to learn about it. And especially I wouldn't
recommend anybody until you're brought into the church and really
understand and gain a fronom of Orthodoxy, because I've talked
with a handful of guys that had like one foot
still in this occult, magical, spiritual world and then one
foot in the Orthodoxy, and Orthodoxy for them was very
like a rational argumentation and then I talk with them

(01:03:45):
and lo and behold, you know, six months goes by
and the asceticism and the spirituality of Orthodoxy isn't as
appealing as being able to still take drugs and do
all this other stuff. So I think for anybody getting
in the church, just focus on Orthodoxy, and once you're in,
if you then go back and look at the history
of this stuff, feel free.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
John of San Francisco since twenty five dollars says, thank
you for this all this help. You've helped me learn
a lot and sent me kept me sane at my work.
God bless Yeah. A lot of people listen at work,
and I'm glad that it helps keep you guys, sane.
That's good to know. Ellie's w's became a member for
three months. Welcome Ellie, guys. Be sure and check the

(01:04:28):
member section over here, and of course also have the
member section at the website. It's largely the same material,
but of course I haven't been able to move everything
from the website over here on YouTube because we've only
been remonetized for a few months now on YouTube. But
anything new, of course goes into the member section on
YouTube as well. And yes, overall it is pretty much
the same material, but the full archive is available at

(01:04:51):
the website. Feels for days five pounds we evolved from monkeys.
They was eating magic poopoo peepe mushrooms. Also, Father Frost
is a Communist verse of Santa. I think Father Frost
is way pre communism. He's an older pagan version. But
perhaps the Soviets did utilize Father Frost as some sort
of way to kind of war against the you know,

(01:05:13):
Saint Nicholas or something in the church. But communists, interestingly,
they tended to socialists, and communists have tended, at least
in the terms of the party, to be anti drugs.
Isn't that what you find to be the case.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Yeah, hardcore communists tend to, yeah, be kind of anti
drugs because that could give you some pernicious ideas that
are anti communists. They can't control that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Yeah, I mean it seems like, you know, I'm pretty
sure the Soviet Party didn't want, you know, drugs going
on on a larger scale, but maybe early Bolsheviks were
super party oriented, and then you know, I don't know,
I don't know the whole history of exactly how they
view drugs, but I would think that my guess would

(01:05:58):
be there, thay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Alcohol, Alcohol was definitely warmly welcome, But I don't know
of any at least me personally. I don't know of
anything regarding inebriate substances and Communism. Typically, from my understanding,
the Bolsheviks were not interested in allowing people to get inebriated.
You could drink as much alcohol as you want. They
didn't care about that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Yeah. Dance Commodore two hundred and fifty rons. I love
David Patrick carry Also thank you for your comedy Jay
the only place where I laugh and get educated at
the same time. Yeah, I think that's kind of what
we've always wanted to do, was you know, synthesize both
of those both of those things. Have it be edutainment

(01:06:39):
infotainment and have it be funny and fun at the
same time. Let's see, we've got some more super chats.
Cholo mechicano ten dollars. When are we going to slaughter
some of those sacred cows and make hamburgers? Yeah, I mean,
I've always wondered. I can't prove this, but I've always
wondered if India's worship of the cow was somehow related

(01:07:00):
to like the ancient you know, you know, an erin
and when Moses goes up on the mountain and they're
worshiping the calf, the god of Egypt, like maybe Egypt
bequeathed this you know, deity in some way to India.
Maybe India was reverencing the deity earlier and it somehow
got into Egypt. Do you know much about that? Any

(01:07:21):
theories on that?

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Uh? No? There, I mean the theories regarding the veneration
of the calf. Some believe it has to do with
an after the zodiac, that these practices originated in that
it may have been a veneration of was it aries,
which one's the ball no Taurus during some like the
tourist period. Again, this is kind of in the wheelhouse

(01:07:44):
of the Graham Hancock, like looking at the maderial time
and the zodiacs and trying to figure out mythology and
stuff like that. Some people argue that's where this stuff
comes from. Others have argued, like the gnostic guy that
was on my open panel, that this has to do
with psilocybin, mushrooms, with cow dung. Potentially, it's kind of

(01:08:06):
an unsolved mystery as what is the actual reason why
cows are so highly venerated within Hinduism because at least historically,
at least like in the rig Veda period, that wasn't
the case.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
Let's see, we got jets ands five bucks and says no,
we read that. Excuse me, bust down, Jubilee, okay, Joe
one dollar. Let's give doctor Dph some flowers. How much
do you guys love and watch dph Jay? I watched
pretty much. I would say ninety of Dph's streams I

(01:08:40):
end up watching. Let's see John Jason Kassel. Wow, he
sends a hundred bucks. Thanks man. I appreciate that. He says, Hello, gentlemen,
I'm a new Orthodox, but I am wrong. Am I
wrong to assume that people that claim to have spiritual
awakenings and finding God suffering from pre list, Well, we

(01:09:03):
don't know. I think time usually tells whether that person
was having a real experience. I think it's possible that
even a bad drug trip could spur a person on
to go to church or to seek God. I mean,
that's possible. I just think that time is the ultimate
sort of determiner because if a person isn't really serious

(01:09:26):
or interested in it, and they have some sort of
ecstatic drug experience, that tends to fade, and then people
move on to other things. But we'll ask to doctor
David Patrick, carry to what degree in your life did
hallucin engens indirectly maybe point you in the direction of
Christianity in God, or maybe it didn't. And do you

(01:09:48):
think these things can potentially be ways where people accidentally
wake up to real Christianity or something.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
So obviously, because of my background, I've dealt with a
lot of Orthodox converts that come from the sort of
psychoonot area, and there are a handful of cases in
which people had some type of mystical encounter that changed
their direction and orientation. I had something similar. I would
never say that taking psychedelics like brings you closer to God,

(01:10:19):
because I also had a lot of weird things that
I thought were going to come true that never did.
I mean Terence McKinnon his time wave zero theory. He
thought that like time machines were going to be invented,
or the apocalypse of some sort at the end of
history was in the year two thousand and I think
this is consistent with like these weird fabrications you get
when you go into altered psychonautic space and then you're

(01:10:41):
totally convinced because of the phenomenological experience that something is
getting ready to occur, and then it never does. For
me personally, it was actually after I did that PhD
course on Orthodoxy, history and theology, and I began watching
some Josiah Trinham videos that summer, and Jay actually told
you that it was the first video I watched of yours.

(01:11:01):
Now I'm blanking on the title, but it was on
logos and theories of numbers or something of that. I
forget exactly what the title was, but I clicked on
your video and you were talking about sort of the
paradigm and really doing a kind of presuppositional approach to
philosophy and theology. And I was still psychedelic, but I

(01:11:21):
really liked this paradigm of Orthodoxy. But again, I'm a
non believer. I'm not interested in joining a man made institution,
and that just kind of wore on me. Towards that
last semester that I took, I did a high dose
LSD trip in my apartment in Berkeley, California, and at
the end of it, I had this quote unquote epiphany

(01:11:44):
that all these things I liked about psychedelic spirituality or
the New Age, be it fractal mathematics, sacred geometry, cymatics,
the unity of peoples, that actually all this stuff is
reinterpreted and properly express within Christianity regarding logos metaphysics. And
that's where your video on numbers like actually influenced this

(01:12:08):
realization later. But loving your neighbor as yourself as opposed
that we're all one, like this syllopsism of psychedelics is
properly interpreted. Is that no, you love your neighbor as yourself,
but actually you were just think people's And so I
had this quote unquote epiphany. And it was that night
in twenty eighteen that I began to pray for the

(01:12:28):
first time since again that I lost my naive Methodist faith,
and then I was convinced that I was John Cyril.
For those who don't know, he's a famous analytic philosopher,
arguably the most famous still living, and he was fired
from Berkeley, California when I was there, And as he
was fired, that next semester, I did a chorus on
person in Neuroscience where he presented his Chinese room thought experiment,

(01:12:52):
which kind of debunks the functionalist definition of AI Synthian
intelligence and stuff like that. But he talked a little
bit about out being fired and how he again he
asked like some woman who was like almost fifty years
old out to dinner and he was in his seventies,
and yeah, he's probably the biggest, one of the biggest
figures at Berkeley. Uh. Well, they fired him for that,
for sexual harassment. And so I'm sitting there in Berkeley

(01:13:15):
with him also being an instructor now at the Dominican
School because he can't teach at Berkeley.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
You're also a straight white male who's going to get
fired for asking you know exactly. I mean, that's what
they do like I think, I mean, you know this,
but like when I decided that I didn't want to
be in academia, I wanted to get a PhD and
all that, you know, I was in grad school and
I was like, okay, I realized it's very much a click.
And you know, these feminists, these radical liberals, like they

(01:13:40):
don't want anyone like us in the in that sphere.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
No, no, and I and that was very palpable being
in the Bay Area. And so after that experience, I decided,
holy shit, I got to do something because I cannot
depend on working for a university. And that's actually what
eventually led to me creating Church of the Eternal Logo
is I thought. And I had this pro psychedelic channel,

(01:14:03):
but my whole again that journey from Orthodoxy and then
you and Josiah, Father Josiah, and then eventually now in
my heart feeling like Christianity is the truth. I didn't
want to keep making all that content promoting Terrence McKinnon,
Timothy Leary. So I thought, man, the only option for
me is to create a new YouTube channel. And so

(01:14:24):
my mom got diagnosed with an illness at that time,
and I was kind of going through a crisis. I
needed to decide if I was going to stay in
Berkeley to finish my dissertation and use their resources or
just do it remotely. And so I went. The last
time I took quote unquote psychedelics, I did an ayahuasca
ceremony and Joshua Tree. And this is before becoming Orthodox,

(01:14:45):
but during this whole transitional phase and during that experience,
I had done a lot of psychedelics, but I never
had the experience I had during this ayahuasca ceremony where
I consumed the eyewaskingbody who's done these things again?

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
Don't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
I'm not advising any of this stuff, just sharing you
what my journey and my experience was consumed it. I
got people around me at this ceremony, this female shaman,
the shaman is is, She's singing songs and doing her
ekeroes and all this stuff. I got people crawling around
the floor acting like jaguars and I'm not feeling anything.

(01:15:18):
So I asked for another cup. Then I asked for
another cup. I do three cups of ayahuasca. The trip
comes on, and the realization I had was if we're
going to be judged, which almost every religious mythology has
some type of judgment after death, Well, it only makes
sense if God took on human form. And so I
became like fully convinced in my heart that Jesus Christ

(01:15:41):
was historical, a historical person, and it was God incarnate.
And then the second realization was, if I want to
be like Christ, it's time for me to build something
and stop consuming, consuming drugs, consuming the ideas of McKenna,
consuming culture. And I felt compelled to create Church with
the Eternal logo. So that was in July of two

(01:16:01):
thousand nineteen, and then in August of twenty nineteen, I
launched Church's Eternal logos, and in September twenty nineteen, I
move home from Berkeley and try to begin finishing all
my PhD stuff while starting the new YouTube channel where
I'm no longer doing what I'm doing. I'm producing my
own content and I'm trying to present it from the

(01:16:22):
lens of Orthodoxy. And so once I moved back to
Indiana in September twenty nineteen, that's when I got became
a catechumen in the Orthodox Church and never done that since.
So did psychedelics lead me to Christ? Not really? If anything,
I almost felt convicted when I got into those spaces.

(01:16:43):
The last two times I did it, one reaffirming Christianity
is actually fulfilling the things that I believe to be true,
and then the second one it was time for me
to start my own business and actually become a man.
And if christ was you know, if he built things,
if he was a carpenter, time for me to begin
to build something. And the iron. The irony of that

(01:17:03):
experience is that the ayahuasca stopped and this, you know,
and people said, oh, that's because you were doing too
much drugs, man, your serotonin levels were no We this
had been a long, long period before I'd done psychedelics
before this. I'm very aware of how all that stuff worked.
We even did like the spiritual fasting before the ceremony,
but it shut down like there was no trip at all.

(01:17:24):
I was completely sober. The shaman was surprised. She couldn't
believe it because I was telling her, look, I'm not
feeling it anymore, and she's like, you just had three cups,
like I can't. I'm not going to give you any more.
And then there's a second night. There's a in the
second night, it just didn't work, and so to me
that was God telling me, look, you got to stop
doing this stuff. And to me it was almost like
a mystical experience in the sense that the drugs didn't work,

(01:17:47):
because that had never ever happened before. So did Christ
meet me in that state? Potentially? I think he can
meet people anywhere. Do psychedelics take you towards Christ? Absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
Yeah, I would say it reminds me of you know,
you and I both have been on your Mate Tooms's
channel and podcast, and you know we did some pretty
in depth interviews with him, and you know, there was
a period where he was really interested in Orthodoxy and
Christianity and it was because he says he had had
this really dark sort of demonic trip and he was
seeing you know, demonic entities and stuff like that, and

(01:18:23):
you know, and then he ended up for whatever reason.
I'm not knocking the dude, it's just, you know, he
ended up just not continuing in the direction of Christianity. So,
you know, even when you have these sort of bad
trips or intense experiences and you think you're seeing spiritual
realities or you're experiencing demons, I'm not saying or not.
I'm just saying, like the these trips kind of I

(01:18:44):
would take them with a grain of salt, as I
guess what I'm trying to say. In terms of drug trips,
I've had bad trips. My first trip was a really
bad trip. It didn't immediately make me, you know, go
to church or seek out Christianity maybe a year or
two later because of a bad trip, and sort of
I guess I would say in my situation, it did

(01:19:04):
kind of wake me up to spiritual realities, but I
wasn't moving the direction of Christianity after it. Maybe it
did make me start asking some questions that I maybe
wouldn't have asked before doing LSD, But I definitely wouldn't
attribute conversion to drugs. Panos, what's up? Panoesays for five

(01:19:26):
dollars congratulations on the PhD cotel. You guys should consider
a collaboration with doctor Nathan Jacobs. I know he's be
buddies with FDA. I've just not yet. I haven't met him,
we haven't spoken. I'm sure he's a cool dude. I
think the conversations that you guys would have would be beefy.
What are your recommendations for people outside of academia in

(01:19:50):
terms of something to look into to say, sharp informed
and constantly learning. I'm sure Kotel would recommend his course
which is linked Logos Academy, which is linked in the
show description. Why don't you go ahead and tell us
a little bit about that, because I do want to
get back into some more of the topics. I want
to talk about Esselin Institute. You know, you've recommended a

(01:20:10):
lot of books over the years. Uh, and one of
those that I got was this history of Esselin that
you recommended. What did you think most of the books
that you mentioned on these topics I do end up buying.
This one maybe is not for people trying to stay
up on top of things. It's just a book that
I that I heard you mentioned that I wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
To get, But I would argue it's the it's the
bet now. It's written by doctor Jeffrey Cripel, who runs
a gnostic esoteric mystical institute out of Rice. It's kind
of one of the only programs in the US like it.
There's a few in Europe where you can get like
a PhD. And Eric Davis, who's a famous author. He
was like the last one to interview Terrence McKenna. He
just got a PhD from Rice under doctor Kripel. Jeffrey

(01:20:50):
Kriipel was asked by Michael Murphy, the founder of the
Esslin Institute, to write the sort of ultimate historical overview.
And so if you're an academic like Jay or myself,
it's a useful book. Not that you agree with like
how the author is presenting it, but it's really useful
in seeing the historical trajectory and narrative of that institute.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
Are you going to take your thesis and put it
into something readable or like, what is there a book?
Maybe there is a different book that you would recommend
that's like the best overview of like hallucinogens and spirituality
and what do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
I have not found a great overview of Most of
the work that gets into psychedelics is almost always written
by somebody exactly, so it's very biased most of the stuff,
and even amongst the scholars, because in the academia most
people don't engage with this stuff unless they're like closely
associated with the practices of it. Almost every PhD that's

(01:21:50):
involved with psychedelic studies is themselves a psychoonot. So my
plan is to eventually, right, some type of book, be
it about one hundred and fifty to one hundred pages.
It's for an average reader on a literal historical overview

(01:22:10):
of these substances and their relationship to mysticism and how
it then emerges in the twentieth century and kind of
take you up to the twenty first century. It's really
just a historical overview. I do plan on doing that.
I have a paper titled Technologies of Transcendence that I
wrote during the PhD program that I want to rework
and expand on for that, and it's basically arguing that

(01:22:34):
drugs are a form of technology for mystical transcendence. I'm
not arguing in favor of them. And then I just
document from the ancient period. The paper only goes up
to Aleister Crowley, but adding a whole another chapter, a
whole couple sections on the twentieth century. Yeah, that's something
that I want to do and I'll probably make that

(01:22:54):
turn that into a course for the Logos Academy. Eventually
you're muted. I can't hear you tell us about Logos Academy.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
I'm looking at it over here. The link long form
lectures private breakdown's philosophical training. What are you envisioning here?
Is there a course already up? I see you've got
already eighty six Members's the what's the overall plan here?

Speaker 2 (01:23:17):
So the idea is this is a men's community. So
I'm sorry women out there, this is for men and
it's a male only space. And the idea of the
Logos Academy obviously I've you know, I don't run a church,
but my YouTube channels called Church of the Eternal Logos.
It's just a theological perspective from logos on various topics,
and Logos Academy is trying to basically build an environment

(01:23:41):
for men young men. But most of the people in
there already like established men where we can talk about
and discuss anything, and I can then utilize my academic
or educational skills for that community specifically. So the first
thing that we're going to do, I mean, right now,
what we have is I have all my exclusive members

(01:24:03):
content and part two streams that I actually have to
thank Jay for because he's the one that gave me
the idea, and then we actually need to thank Jamie
because she's the one that gave him the idea. But
all those streams that I've done, those are over on
the Logos Academy, now much more accessible and easily to access.
The goal is for to take the dissertation, which is very,

(01:24:25):
very academic. This is not a mass reader. This is
like three hundred pages of DNSE academic intellectual history on
the relationship of technology from really the medieval period, and
it's tied with millenarianism and how transhumanism. I make the
argument actually emerges out of a Christian ethos beginning with

(01:24:48):
John scotos I Regina. He was one of the court
philosophers for the Carolingian Empire right in the middle of
the eight hundreds, and he was a neil Platonist. He
was an Irish Neil Platonist, and he developed this idea
that the mechanical arts because during the Carolingian era there
was referred to as the Carolingian Renaissance, where like the
plow and the watermill and these things emerge as technologies

(01:25:11):
that allowed labor to be easier. And of course during
that period you have the rise of the Benedictines of
the ore at Lebora, tying a sort of spirituality with work.
And I argue that John Scotosi. Regina then presented that
technology was going to redeem all the lost attributes of Adam.
So Adam was a perfect spiritual person and what everything

(01:25:33):
he lost to become the corrupted man, technology was going
to redeem in us. And then I traced that concept
and the dispositions towards technology through people like you of
Saint Victor Roger Bacon, and this gets tied with Yakima
Fiore's millenarianism, where he believed this third Age, the Age
of the Holy Spirit. Sacraments were no longer important, the

(01:25:57):
priesthood was no longer Essentially, it's a form of Protestants
because it was the age of Holy Men. As long
as you were virtuous and spiritual, the Holy Spirit would
inform you. And this was going to be a utopian age.
It was kind of a millinery and disposition. Well that
literally informs somebody like Francis Bacon when he writes The
New Atlantis, where he develops a new understanding of science

(01:26:19):
and he does away with the Aristotilian understanding of categories
and logic. Not that he's against that stuff, but he
presents a new utilitarian form of science that science and
knowledge is all about practical utility, and I trace that
into then the founding of the Royal Society, the founding
of speculative freemasonry, and the rise of the engineer. You

(01:26:41):
get people like Henry Saint Simone and Augusta Kompte, where
now you have this positivist scientific philosophy which is still millenarian.
And then I tie that with America being the city
on the hill, and that many people, theologians, whether it
be John Edwards moving forward, believe that America was going

(01:27:01):
to be the millinery and kingdom. And so that dissertation
traces that idea into then contemporary transhumanism as a form
of post secular deification Orthodox theosis. And then I demonstrate
how both of these are basically two competing narratives coming
out of the Christian world. Regarding deification, one is pre
modern the Orthodox thiosis, which maintains the old metaphysical order

(01:27:23):
and essentially Aristotelian categories and all this stuff. Where the
new one is coming out of this historical thread where
technology and existential pursuits are going to lead us towards utopia,
and that Orthodox he views transhumanism in its own eschological
terms related to the Antichrist.

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
Yes, well we both you and I both covered in
our videos the Peter Teele interview where Teal seems to
seems to sort of take Christianity as this allegory for
technological transhumanism and immortality. That's kind of my reading of
that weird interview. He mentioned what was a Renee Garard

(01:28:02):
I've not read. I have the book, somebody recommended it,
but I haven't never gotten to it yet. So I'm
assuming that he just sort of takes the Christianity in
this sort of a symbolic way, kind of a Jordan
Peterson style.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Yeah, you know, yeah he does. And So to wrap
up that whole dissertation, that is basically an orthodox Christian
critique of transhumanism utilizing the methodology of intellectual history. That's
what that is, and my goal is to have that
published by the end of August. So the Logos Academy

(01:28:35):
that is a separate project obviously tied related to it,
and that may turn into courses. But the first thing
we're going to do in the Logos Academy we have
bi monthly meetings where we have free form conversations and
then we just had one last night and the members
want to do like topic themed two hour conversation, So
maybe I post an article or something, and then if

(01:28:56):
people want to read it, you don't have to read it,
but you can then join the meeting and we can
talk about things like a classroom setting. And then we
have a fitness group that kind of holds people accountable
for fitness, diet, spiritual life, and then career of life goals.
And so those are the three meetings we do every month,
and my goal is to create The first course will
be a history on the logos, beginning with the pre Socratics,

(01:29:17):
people like Heraclitis and this idea of logos moving into
eventually the Gospel of John and the ending of the
Neoplatonic academies, and that will be tied with my goal
is to create an ebook related to that, and then
another course on the history of metaphysics essentially from the
medieval period to the postmodern turn in the twentieth century,

(01:29:39):
and that is the kind of continuation of the same conversation.
And then I want to build out a course that
is going to go into deeper to regards to that ebook.
So those are kind of the two big projects that
we talked about last night. In the group that I
want to try to get done by the end of
this year. So by the end of twenty twenty five,
there should be two full courses on the history of

(01:30:02):
logos the history of metaphysics, tied with ebooks that are
kind of introductions to those topics, and then part two
streams exclusive videos all my show notes or study guides
are available for the group. And then of course our
three meetings each month plus sometimes Q and a's. So
that's kind of what we do with the group, and
it's kind of themed like an ancient academy. I mean

(01:30:22):
we want I mean last night, some of the guys
are like professional powerlifters, and it's an interesting amalgamation of
different guys and it's just a place for us to
come together as you know, adults, as men and be
able to learn and discuss things that you really can't
with other people.

Speaker 1 (01:30:41):
Yeah, it's good to reclaim men's spaces. That's such a
neglected thing given you know, the dominance of the feminism
in our era. I want to remind you guys that
I will be speaking to the third annual Ludwell Orthodox
Fellowship Conference in Stafford, Virginia. This is outside of DC,
So if you're in the DC region, this is September sixth,
twenty two. I will be speaking there along with Metropolitan Jonah,

(01:31:04):
Jim Jatras, our good buddy Buck Johnson, our good friend
Proto Deacon Doctor Patrick, Father Turbo, and some other priests
and people I'm not familiar with. I'm sure they're all
great people I'm just not familiar with, and of course
Rebecca that runs Dissident Media. It's going to be a
great conference Saturday, September sixth, twenty twenty five, Stafford, Virginia

(01:31:26):
and you can get the tickets in the link in
the show description in the link right there. We'll also
be having a upcoming conference here in Florida once again.
This will be our second conference at my church here
in Florida. The first conference that we did on iconography
with Father Deacon and Father Vladimir was a big hit.
We had a lot of fun. We had a nice crowd,

(01:31:49):
so we're going to have an even bigger conference, bigger
crowd this year. This year's focus. I don't have the
ticket page up. It will be in November, just let
you guys know, so we do have plenty of time.
The theme this year will be Athens in Jerusalem. So
we're going to be contrasting these two approaches to reality,

(01:32:09):
to society civilization, one of course focusing on human reasoning
and philosophy, and of course Jerusalem focusing on the person
of Christ, the Messiah and divine revelations. So what is
the relationship. Is it an antipropy, is it an antithesis
as Tratolian said, What have Athens to do with Jerusalem?

(01:32:31):
Or is there a possibility of overlap or or what
that will be the focus. UH will also be getting
into aesthetics. Of course, Father Vladimir lectures on art history.
He's an art history teacher. He focuses on the techniques
and styles of the Renaissance masters and how they put

(01:32:51):
certain structures and geometric patterns and forms into their works,
and that also of course influences or Russian art styles.
Dance commodore no way we did that one textus became
a member. Shout out to textas Jonathan Britton two dollars.

(01:33:12):
This is a kind of a complicated question. Basically, he
asks what is the Orthodox Church's idea on THC, CBD, silo, cybin,
et cetera. In short, I will answer it as saying
that I think that anything can be medicinal because everything

(01:33:34):
that exists God created and created it good. But any
of those things could also be conceivably abused. This is
a great question, though, that I'm going to ask a Cotel.
I'll ask doctor p dvh.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
Is it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
Are there any potential medicinal usages for mushrooms and these
kinds of things. I know we have this maps thing going,
which is I think Soros funded. And I'm not talking
about minor attracted persons. I'm talking about a different thing,
the thing that has to do with like studying hallucinogens.
I would say, like I knew a guy who was

(01:34:13):
a severe alcoholic. He was a good friend of mine
from high school. He ended up dying a couple of
years ago, one of my good friends, and I would say, like,
in his case, he's at such an advanced state of
extreme alcohol addiction that I don't think some extreme measure,
like perhaps some program that might have utilized this to

(01:34:37):
to help him break free of extreme alcoholic addiction. Maybe
in some of these extreme cases, something like that could work.
But doctor David Petricarry, what do you think.

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
I agree with you that that's the always the response
whenever I do a stream on psychedelics, people in the
chat go, well, what about the John Hopkins research? And
the the point is that these things are nuanced, and
so has psilocybin or mbma shown signs of effectiveness regarding
PTSD or severe forms of addiction? Even I begain, Yeah,

(01:35:14):
they have. Well, I thought you just told me that
these things are spiritually you know, problematic. Why Well, clearly
it's helping people. Well, as I would argue, is that
they do dissolve boundaries. And if you have a boundary
due to post traumatic stress disorder that you're constantly reliving,
you're constantly moving through every single time, every time a
firework goes off. That Yeah, it has shown that if

(01:35:36):
you get into these altered states and you sort of
kind of dissolve these boundaries and have a phenomenological experience
where you're able to sort of move beyond them when
you become sober, you're not as throttled with that same
stress and that trauma. So are they beneficial in that way? Yeah?
I could see how somebody who's in extreme mental anguish

(01:35:58):
due to trauma that this might be beneficial. Same thing
with potential CBD use. I mean, obviously that's not ANEEB
grating THHC. You know everybody points to glaucoma or appetite
suppression for people that are cancer patients. Yeah, I could
see how that could be beneficial. At the same time,
every time you alter your consciousness, you open yourself up

(01:36:21):
to spiritual warfare. I mean, as orthodox, we're being inundated
with thoughts that aren't entirely are all the time. When
you dissolve the ability of self awareness and even recognize
things that are infiltrating your mind, you are way more
susceptible to believing and falling victim to prelast than ever before.
So there, they are spiritually dangerous, even if there are

(01:36:43):
potential medical applications in certain circumstances. But just because there
are potential benefits doesn't mean that that should be a
free pass for your own consumption or use because you're
self medicating. You know, if you have a really strong
tide to these things and you find it hard to
give them up, well there's probably a deeper problem there.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
Yeah, let's see. Pano says again, five dollars, thank you guys,
listening to you guys talk about this. I'm reminded about
the horrors of narcissistic abuse, where the victims are made
to doubt their perceptions of reality. Would you say that
these substances destroy the gnomic will? I would say that

(01:37:31):
any addiction or any mind altering substance could conceivably maybe
not destroy the will, but enslave the will.

Speaker 2 (01:37:45):
What do you think, No, I totally agree. I mean
anybody who smoked weed. I had a bad habit through
my twenties, smoked every single day. Once you get sober,
despite what a pothead will tell you, that, well, it
helps me be creative.

Speaker 1 (01:37:59):
It helped me.

Speaker 2 (01:38:00):
It helps me come up with ideas. If you're sober,
you have a stronger drive for work, to accomplish things,
to achieve goals. That yeah, absolutely, it makes you apathetic
to some degree. And so if you're sober and living
a healthy life, I promise you the quality of your
work and the desire to actually accomplish something, and your

(01:38:21):
testosterone is going to go up. Marijuana is a female plant.
It lowers It's been shown to lower your testosterone.

Speaker 1 (01:38:30):
I might have missed this super chat a couple of
days ago. Jeff cost us five dollars American Egle releases
an ad that isn't super gay, and people complain neat
me and Eugene, I think we read that one. We'll
see here here we go storm the cat ten dollars.

(01:38:56):
My dad's friend and other friends have encountered witches in
the woods. They were standing in a circle, and there
they had drawn in the mud a circle, and there
was a Ouiji board, and they were moving in unnatural ways,
and supposedly one of them levitated, well, I would just
stay away from the witches. J Mel thirty dollars. Why

(01:39:19):
would Kraljung think Christianity rose out of a mythri cult?
Do you think Jordan Peterson believes that?

Speaker 2 (01:39:26):
Well?

Speaker 1 (01:39:29):
I mean probably in the case of Kral Young, who
I've read a decent amount of crawl Young, I think
he probably was just looking for alternative explanations and why
he settled on this one or that one, who knows?
I think probably out of just pride in academic you know, arrogance.

(01:39:50):
And I would say maybe in Jordan Peterson's case, I
don't know if he thinks Christianity is mithra or not,
but he just still, you know, can't he can't bite
the bullet on Christianity in Toto.

Speaker 2 (01:40:06):
So what do you think you're the phenomenon first launched off.
I think there's a video on my old YouTube channel
before I became christian I posted a video from Jordan
Peterson essentially spouting the you know this mushroom type theory
related to Christianity. So I can find it on my

(01:40:27):
old YouTube channel. I can find it downloads.

Speaker 1 (01:40:29):
So you're saying Peterson has in the past endorsed this
type of an allegro theory.

Speaker 2 (01:40:35):
Uh, yeah, some type. I mean, it's been a while
since I watched it, but it was tied with this
with the connection between mushrooms and Christianity, and essentially was
promoting the benefits of this sort of inebriating spirituality to
enlighten oneself. And he refers to the John Hopkins research

(01:40:57):
and stuff like that, but pulls basically from everybody that
we've already discussed presently about this sort of general theme
of how Christianity may be tied with with inebriating substances.
But maybe his opinion has changed. I just remember downloading
that and posting it like twenty seventeen, and it was
when he became popular. He had like tons of videos

(01:41:18):
already on his YouTube channel, and it was an old
video that I found on there. At the time, I
was into psychedelics, and I thought, oh, wow, Peterson, he
knows what's going on. But now it makes you think
his gnostissism and his unwillingness actually identify as Christian. It's like, Okay,
maybe he's actually still in that camp.

Speaker 1 (01:41:39):
Santo's Bnacci is an insane person. I don't know what
people in the chat like, I don't know, you put
this topic in and it just attracts like the most
ridiculous people in the chat. No, we don't deal with
insane people over here.

Speaker 2 (01:41:54):
Yeah. I remember.

Speaker 1 (01:41:58):
We went through on my channels quite a bit of
Jordan Peterson's personality lectures, and in those there's a significant,
maybe an entire lecture on Christianity and the Trinity and
the person of Christ, and basically it was just Zeitgeist
level stuff that like isis and Horace and Mary's Isis
and Jesus is the Son of Raw. It was it

(01:42:21):
was like Zeitgeist level stuff. So maybe he's still sort
of hung up in that mindset. I remember the when
he debated z Zec in twenty nineteen or twenty twenty.
You know, Jesus isn't divine, but he's like this, he's
like a symbol for suffering and overcoming or something.

Speaker 2 (01:42:40):
Yeah, and he's like the Adam Kadman of the astrological cycle.
So I remember Santos is stuff. It's all tied with
this astrology. It's a mixture of like Jordan Maxwell and
you know a lot of this like New Age spirituality.
So I haven't I haven't seen or heard of Santos

(01:43:00):
in a while. I'm not sure what he does, but
his spirituality is a gnostic illuministic framework where Christ is
an archetype for who you're supposed to become, and all
the religions are pointing towards this perennial truth and that
the zodiac is the sort of ultimate rubric to understand
medicine and healing and the passing of seasons, time history,

(01:43:25):
all these different things. So it is.

Speaker 1 (01:43:31):
We get I appreciate you guys being so supportive. It's
a good sign when we can't move along because there's
so many super chats. Appreciate that you guys are being
the beloved pay piggies that we appreciate evolving Double Monkey
twenty dollars. I spoke to a charismatic. He said that
God sent him a dream about his knee surgery. He
looked for a doctor who agreed that he needed knee surgery. However,

(01:43:53):
the surgery didn't work. I asked him how he knew
the dream wasn't from the devil, and he didn't say anything. Yeah,
it's I mean, that's why in the Orthodox Church we
just don't focus and pay attention to this kind of
stuff because everybody in the charismatic world, and the Roman Tholicism,
by the way, has accepted charismaticism holds from the papacy down.
It just leads to everybody being diluted, and they follow

(01:44:15):
their dreams and their visions, which, as Jeremiah says, are
from their hearts and not from God. So exactly any
thoughts on dreams and visions, And I mean, I think
psychedelics are a big part of prelest too, Like they
give you this like you think you're seeing these great insights,
and it's like, nah, dude, like the seventeen year old
staring at a candy wrapper realizing that reality is all

(01:44:37):
one is not some great mystical insight.

Speaker 2 (01:44:40):
Right, No, I agree. I think, you know, just be
cautious at dreams. I've seen too many people, even Orthodox Christians,
try to make like ultimate conclusions from a dream. Obviously,
we know the Prophet Daniel was able to interpret dreams,
so dreams do have some significance. But who are you.
You're not the prophet Daniel. You know your ability to

(01:45:02):
interpret the you know, the walking dog headed entity that
you encountered in your you don't know what that means,
so just stop.

Speaker 1 (01:45:10):
I think also, like probably Deacon says, like if you,
if you, if you were given dreams from God, from
the spirit or something like that, like you would be
interpreting this in the context of your spiritual father kind
of helping you in guiding you, and he's gonna not
let you be diluted or fall into some you know, prelust,
So it would be in the context of the church.

(01:45:31):
It wouldn't be you know, I don't know, like I mean,
for example, Sam Shimun sam Chomun's whole ethos is a
bunch of dreams and visions and nonsense and orbs flying
around his room. All that's pre last No. One five dollars.
You should investigate all the people who claim to see
visions of Christ and angels during the time of Joseph Smith.

(01:45:52):
This is a very odd part of history. I think
in the in the case of Joseph Smith at number one,
he's just a con man. I mean it's impossible. It's
possible that he saw some sort of angelic entity claiming
to be Moron I or he just understood the power
of you know, of the con and just claiming to
have seen visions. Any comments on Joseph.

Speaker 2 (01:46:15):
Smith, I totally agree. I mean, Joseph Smith, Yeah, I mean,
that's a mixture. His dad was deeply interested in the occult.
I mean, I would argue Mormonism is the mixture of
Western Asotericism, Protestant Christianity, and Freemasonry. It's kind of the formation,
the foundation of what Mormonism is. So you know, yeah,
anybody who believes are that, or believes in the revelations

(01:46:38):
of Joseph Smith has problems with their critical reasoning skills exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:46:43):
Maximus Pike seven pounds, Thank you, gentlemen, Thank you, Maximus.
Appreciate that a panini two pounds, Jay, they're euros, not pounds.
Excuse me, that's a hero, not a pound. Whatever. That
to me, it's all a fake. They're all fake unless
it's bit Quinn in m I bee spirit led pul
ten dollars. Do you have any thoughts on zoroastrian and
the claims that it influenced Christianity or any videos about

(01:47:05):
Orthodoxy debunking this. Well, I'll say that that's something that
was very popular in like older one hundred year old scholarship,
like late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds. I don't know
that that's that popular anymore in academian scholarship, and you'll learn,
I think, if you get deep into academic stuff, that
a lot of these things are fads, right, So academia

(01:47:27):
has fads, and they'll say things like, oh, early Christianity
is influenced from Zoroastrianism, and this is really popular in
that you're nineteen hundred, and then by nineteen seventy nobody
believes this anymore. So I don't think that's really happening
in academia anymore. But I don't keep up with academia
because it's a bunch of nonsense anyway. So any thoughts

(01:47:47):
on Zoroastrianism, Doctor David Patrick here.

Speaker 2 (01:47:50):
I mean outside of it being an early monotheistic faith. No,
I've seen the arguments on door Astrianism influencing Christianity, but
the very different paradigms, the presuppositions are different, you know, people,
I think the word concept fallacy is problematic because maybe

(01:48:11):
there are similar things that are meant, but they're they're
interpreted by those traditions very differently. So outside of Zoroastrianism
being an early form of Monotheism at a period in
which it wasn't prevalent, I think it's historically significant for
that it allowed for more literate culture and persia, allowed
for a little bit more cultural cohesion compared to the

(01:48:33):
mythrism of previous times. But now there's not a there's
not a huge correlation between the same thing, like as
you said with the Zeitgeist, I mean, the whole thing
with Christ being another form of Mithra or Apollo or
solen Victus. I mean, yeah, that was cool in the
early two thousands, but that's just not taken seriously anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
Let's see last super chet here that I see, and
then we'll get back to some of the books and
the text here. Yeah, Kubi and Yapper tight one dollar
Doctor David Patrick Curry, you should do a drama stream
after this? What's I love the drama streams, by the way,
what's the next drama stream?

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
I don't know. Whenever something, I think I get enough
interesting news that comes up. But I mean, right now,
I don't know what the big drama is to do.
But yeah, those are fun.

Speaker 1 (01:49:20):
I just kind of go with, Well, apparently the only
big drama is that Sydney Sweeney wore blue jeans and
reference genetics and that's somehow, you know, the third Reich
or something.

Speaker 2 (01:49:29):
So that's the Well, then Arby's just did it commercial
and some juice company just did it commercial, both kind
of playing off the same theme. So that is a
little cultural drama because we're seeing even major corporations like RB's,
American Eagle and whatever that smoothie place was that the
white guy did, that's all kind of saying the same thing.

(01:49:50):
So it feels like there's kind of a cultural shift
in some way that's going on.

Speaker 1 (01:49:56):
Jeff Coast is five dollars. Yes, I've answered this question
many times, not being a douchebag. It's come up a lot.
Have you seen the people that claim that yahweh was
a storm God? Then he became the God of the Bible. Yeah,
so basically there's a great I don't usually recommend this person,
but Weemland Craig does have one good book that's called
Creation x Nilo, where he shows that the way that

(01:50:18):
God has presented in just the Torah shows that he
is not at all like the surrounding ancient Near Eastern
deities that encompass the nation of Israel, and he lists
I think about ten different distinctives that set that God off. Furthermore,
within the text itself, Bail is a storm god and

(01:50:42):
that is not Yahweh. One reason that very low IQ
low tier people think this is because the word about
all can mean something generic, like just a lord, and
so you might call you know, Jesus lord, you might
call Satan lord, you might call something you know, Elohem

(01:51:02):
is another one of these terms that can just be
a generic word for a deity, and so very stupid
people who don't know about language and how word concept
fallacies work, they will think that that word always refers
to the same thing. So if you have an Old
Testament statement of Lord in one seen as section referring
to you know, Yahweh in another section where the Lord

(01:51:25):
of the Canaanites right by all or whatever. They'll think
it's the same reference. It's just a generic term like
lord lord can be. You could call Satan lord, you
could call Jesus lord. It's a very very simple grammar mistake.
Harvest two dollars. Is this a Christian YouTube channel? We're
both Orthodox Christians.

Speaker 2 (01:51:46):
Yeah. I think the icons kind of give it away.

Speaker 1 (01:51:50):
Unbound. Five dollars, Jay, I thank you for everything. Can
you explain the Jay's Analysis membership and what a subscriber gets.
It's very simple, very boomer friendly. You just when you subscribe,
you just go to the one single tab called member tab,
and everything is under the members tab. There's no going
all around. You just have one tab. Or there's the
part one of the part two. Very boomer friendly. That's it.

(01:52:12):
You get access to all of the interviews and talks
that I've done for the last i'd say ten years.
I think jays Analysis is about ten years in terms
of the archives. Okay, so let's we'll get another super
red Fox. Ten dollars, Jay, Doctor dph. What is the
subtle way that spiritual warfare and manifests in our culture?

(01:52:33):
And how does Orthodox practices like prayer and fasting equip
you to counter the influences. Well, I would just say that,
you know, really, fasting and that kind of stuff is
only a useful tool in terms of helping us to

(01:52:54):
maintain and keep self control. Fasting itself doesn't do like
we don't pay God with fasting. God doesn't benefit from
us not eating. It's really just a way for us
to discipline ourselves to attain to and maintain self control
and the means of grace, like prayer and especially you know,

(01:53:15):
the Eucharist. That's the way in which we obtain the
actual ontological power to not fall prey to the cultural influences,
the demonic influences. And that's because we're participating in the
uncreated grace and life and love of God through the
sacraments and prayer and so forth. So that's what I
would say, Cotel. Do you have anything to add to that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:38):
I mean, basically what you said, I would add that prayer, fasting,
the Eucharist, participating in the sacraments. This helps give you
spiritual discernment, allows the Holy Spirit to be present within you.
If you have more discernment, you're going to be able
to navigate whether it be propaganda internal thoughts people you
encounter much easier. So basically what Jay said, the practice

(01:54:01):
is the spiritual practice of Orthodoxy allow you to be
a carrier of the Holy Spirit and have more discernment
regarding the things that are happening. That's that's how you
navigate and offend yourself against it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:15):
Jacob Kaba ten dollars. I was watching doctor David Patrick
Carey's talks on Saint Piezios and the prophecies. What are
your opinions on in times and the prophecies and could
they be used by elites or are they more guided
by God's will? Well, I mean, this is an area

(01:54:35):
that I don't really delve into. I don't know a
whole lot about it, so I don't have a positive
or a negative opinion. I know that Cotail spend a
lot more time in this domain than I have, so
I would say that when the end times come, will know.
I don't think we have to worry too much about it.
I'm not saying that people can't study, you know, the prophecies,
the elders and whatnot. They absolutely can. That's up to

(01:54:58):
you and what you you know, what you get into,
what you find interesting. It's possible that elites could fake prophecies,
there could be forgeries, or any of these things are possible.
I don't have any evidence necessarily of that, but it
is definitely within the realm of possibility. Are they more
guided by God's will? I think holy men absolutely are

(01:55:20):
more guided by God's will, But I would I would.
My take on this would just be that I think
that divine revelation as a public binding thing ceased. That
doesn't mean that there aren't elders and clairvoyant people in
the church, but I don't think you can like bind
everybody to these private revelations. That's my understanding.

Speaker 2 (01:55:41):
Yeah, I would. I would agree, and also say that
I've done a lot of streams regarding looking at some
of the eschological visions of various saints and elders, and
if this stuff gives you anxiety, like, that's not the point.
And really, these aren't these aren't timelines for history. And
as that Jay said, these are private revelations among some

(01:56:03):
holy men. Some of them are very insightful, and it
appear based on a third party, that they've been fulfilled,
that they've come true. But really, if you read this
stuff in St. Piecios included was that these are just
signs to be aware of. Saint Piacio's was big on
the encroachment of technocracy and ecumenism, and that these are

(01:56:24):
signs that every Orthodox Christian needs to be aware of
because they are going to move towards the new Babylonian kingdom,
you know, the kingdom of the Antichrist. Does that mean
that you know something he said in the nineteen eighties.
You need to be like searching the news every day
and concerned and trying to pinpoint like no spiritual discernment,

(01:56:45):
participating in the sacraments of the church, and then just
hearing what the saints and elders have to say and
looking for signs when they emerge. That's the point of it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:55):
Let me ask you this because I overlooked this question.
Red Fox originally said the first line and his super
chat was doctor or David Patrick Harriet, what are the
subtle ways that spiritual warfare manifests and culture that we
don't notice?

Speaker 2 (01:57:12):
I would say, obviously your imagination. That's the one that
I talk with guys the most about is they get
weird thoughts and everybody's had the experience you know, maybe
you're on a tall building and you kind of walk
towards the edge and all of a sudden you get
a thought like to jump, like to just kill yourself.
We would believe that that's not you thinking, that that

(01:57:33):
is a suggestion, that's low giz me, that's a suggestion
from a demon or the evil one, and that these
are the subtleties that are occurring every day. But also
though subtleties can emerge through the music you listen to,
through propaganda, through if you're believing news or mainstream news
like these are another ways in which subtle subversion can
take place. And you just have to believe a lie

(01:57:55):
to move in the wrong direction. And that's the whole
point of the sort of subtle spiritual war. I want
to say one last thing on the eschatology thing is
this stuff isn't for everybody. I know people love to
hear about in time for the apocalypse, but the whole
point is just to get this stuff available with what
I work with with the Eskaton Vigil in English, a

(01:58:16):
lot of this stuff. Almost everything we've translated has been
either in Russian, Serbian, Romanian or Greek, and they've never
been in English. So our goal is just to try
to get this stuff in English. And if you're wanting
to participate in a community of men that are aware
of these things and can interpret them in a way
that doesn't cause anxiety and stress, which is absolutely not

(01:58:36):
the purpose of any of it, then you can join
the Logos Academy. Because the Eskaton Vigil, the founder of that,
he's in our group. And if you sign up today tomorrow,
the price is going to go up. I told for
the first week it was a founding members price, so
right now if you join, your price will be locked
in for twenty five dollars a month. Again, that includes
three meetings a month, all the exclusive content, and then

(01:58:59):
the courses that I'm going to build out. So my estimation,
it's a great value compared to what other people are
doing with the amount of time that I'm putting in
with actual Zoom meetings, because as j knows, those are
actually very time intensive and it takes you away from
doing other work. So but if that's the kind of
community you want to be in where if you have

(01:59:19):
a question Jacob on stuff like this, like we actually
have guys that are reading this stuff and are not
consumed by anxiety about about it and can talk to
you in a very rational and well tempered.

Speaker 1 (01:59:30):
Way, spirit led palpi dollars. Do you have blessings to
debate so that I can send crazy people to you?
Please do not send crazy people to me. I mean,
I don't think that you need a blessing to do
a debate. I mean I think that the more that
you move into trying to teach people, you know, spiritual

(01:59:52):
life stuff and to try to be like a spiritual
father or something like that, you need that that blessing.
But I think everything that we do, you know, people
know who our priests are, we know they know, you
know where we go, what we're up to. You don't
have to get your priests or your bishop's blessing for
everything that you do. It really and also kind of
depends on the context of what you're doing it, like

(02:00:14):
you know, uh, you know doctor Cotel, can you calling
you doctor?

Speaker 2 (02:00:19):
Doctor?

Speaker 1 (02:00:19):
David Patrick Carry and I we both went on whatever
and debated kind of crazy feminist chicks that either we
don't need to we don't have to call the bishop
to you know, see if we can debate some crazy
chick on whatever podcast. But uh, but no, please don't
send crazy people my way. Please don't tennis racket eleven
dollars and forty one cents. Guys, thank you for the stream.

(02:00:42):
Bless God, bless you both. David. I'm sorry, brother, I
wanted to say something hurtful in your stream. You are
great well. I think we're both men here. I don't
think your word, your words are not going to hurt us.
You're we're we're rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces
off us and sticks to you, so our feelings are

(02:01:03):
not hurt. We're big boys. Let me see him. Make
sure I'm not missing a super chat here. Okay, let
me ask you about the Esslin Institute because you recommended
this book. I have read some of it by Jeffrey Cripple.
It is a very enlightening and I think the thing
that really first stuck out to me that made me
want to get it as I was sort of flipping
through it was the chapter Sex with Angels, the non

(02:01:27):
Local Mind UFOs, and the end to Ordinary History, where
we talk about this figure of Russell targ the Cia
psychic spy who became a mystic. Once I see that,
I'm enthralled Aslin seems to me to be the sort
of the boomer think tank that birds almost it's sort
of the the brains behind the sixties counterculture revolution. And

(02:01:53):
it even gets into this out there sort of alien
and CIA stuff. What about Esslin? What about this book?
And how does Esslin play into your thesis when it
comes to hallucinogens and transhumanism?

Speaker 2 (02:02:08):
So, I mean, Eslin is the foundation of what's called
the human potential movement, and whether you're talking about transhumanism
or psychedelic mysticism, the human potential movement is essential to
both of those. And the belief is that we're capable
a way more than we're actually presenting now, and that
these are sort of spiritually latent abilities and stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:02:30):
By the way, by the way, I'm sorry, let me
just at one point, don't forget this human potential thing,
because Jamie asked me about this last night. She said,
who's Norman Vincent Peel. People don't know that Norman Vincent
Peal is the father of positive thinking, And I'm assuming
that also is going to tie into what you're saying
with Essolin, And don't forget that positive thinking is also
what influenced people like Robert Schuler, the first big megachurch

(02:02:53):
Crystal cathedral stuff to take Christianity and turned it into
a positive thinking with the cult with a Christian veneer.

Speaker 2 (02:03:03):
And that's the official Christianity according to the White House
right now? The was it Paula White? Oh?

Speaker 1 (02:03:08):
Is she part of that?

Speaker 2 (02:03:09):
Yeah? So, And that's how I know that Trump is
because Trump was a big Peel fan and he's all
into positive thinking. That's part of his rhetoric is that
he always wants to rhetorically display something in the way
in which he wants it to be. He's very convinced
that this positive thinking and the law of affirmation and
the way you the words.

Speaker 1 (02:03:27):
Hey dude, I'm manifest that stuff. I just manifested. I
want it and I'm manifested.

Speaker 2 (02:03:31):
Bro. Yeah. Well, and that's why Paula White was his
personal pastor. I mean, she's one of these prosperity Gospels,
but she's all positive thinking. And that's why Trump latched
onto hers because she basically validated his secular law of
attraction into a form of Protestant Zionis Christianity. So regarding
the Human Potential movement, Eslin, though Eslin is a fascinating

(02:03:55):
little piece of history that most people, as the average person,
is never even heard of. But this was really the
thing tank, I mean, in nineteen sixty three. So just
you know, everybody knows the nineteen sixties counterculture, but it's
nineteen sixty three that Leary gets fired from Harvard because
ram Das was having a gay relationship with an undergraduate student. Ram, yeah, exactly,

(02:04:21):
So they get fired from Harvard. So from sixty to
sixty three is the early Harvard research on psilocybin. Sixty
three is also then when the Esslin Institute begins to
have people like Aldus Huxley come and present his sort
of perennial philosophy. And so you know, sixty seven is
the Summer of Love, sixty nine is Woodstock, and so

(02:04:42):
that gives you a little bit of a time frame.
And so through the sixties, the Esslin Institute is where
the people of the counterculture, you know, essentially, and Krypel
talks about that, it's a who's who, I mean, everybody
who goes there basically as a PhD. So this isn't
like the average, you know, run of the mill kind
of person, and this is an institute dedicated to advancing

(02:05:04):
humanity to its like ultimate endpoint and its capabilities. So
they're using gestalt therapy, they're using psychedelics, they're using tantric
forms of yoga. Anything in regards to the elevation of
personal consciousness is being used there. There's a famous story
that you probably read of Hunter Thompson actually being pissed

(02:05:28):
because they have there's like a natural spa there at
Esslin and even in the early sixties a gay men
would go there and Hunter s Thompson, who was not
fan of homosexual he was part of the counterculture, and
he was actually hired by Michael Murphy to be the
sort of security guard for the premises and allowed him
to stay there while he worked on some of the
different stuff. He actually went out there to confront four

(02:05:50):
gay men who were frolicking with each other in the
bath and actually got beat up by them, and he
never returned to Esslin again.

Speaker 1 (02:05:58):
No, I did not know that we have. Jamie and
I took a road trip some years back when we
were first dating, and we did drive up Big sur
and we drove past it, but we didn't go to it.
It's beautiful the area, I mean, it is gor Yeah, big, sir,
is awesome. I mean you literally look out, there's whales, dolphins.
I mean it is like an ideal scenic Yeah, it's perfect.

Speaker 2 (02:06:19):
Yeah place, and it's built on the ruins of a
Native American.

Speaker 1 (02:06:25):
I don't know, Well, this becomes I mean, it becomes
a hub right of the counter culture. You know, you've
got Deepak Chopra, You've got like all of these sort
of big counterculture figures at some point have gone and
done lectures and seminars at Esselon.

Speaker 2 (02:06:43):
Yeah. Abraham Maslow, I mean for his his hierarchy of
values again, that's all that was tied with the Human
Potential movement because they're trying to get the you know,
what do people need, which then kinds ties with socialist ideas. Well.
They need they need food and shelter, they need education,
we need to provide all these things so that each individual.

Speaker 1 (02:07:02):
That was also part of M culture too. Maslow was
part of M cultra. The Human Potential Movement was studied
in mcultra too. In fact, they even put that into
military studies where they were experimenting on certain troops and
certain special operations divisions where they tried to inculcate them
with like extreme forms of positive thinking to see if

(02:07:22):
it could like alter how well they performed in battle.

Speaker 2 (02:07:26):
Yeah, and so the Esslin Institute to your point, I mean,
we're talking like a skinner and his behaviorism, Like he
went there to give lectures. This this whole thing was
about advancing and acquiring like supernatural abilities. And this gets
tied with quantum physics. You know, Russell targ he was
like a remote viewer and they have this research. So

(02:07:48):
one of the interest things about Eslin is that during
the Cold War, somehow they had permission by the CIA
to be involved with other mystics in Russia. Now we
were told, you know, there was no community between Russian
and America wearing a sky spies.

Speaker 1 (02:08:02):
Mark Hackert is a good essay on Russian psychic spies
called sci Spies.

Speaker 2 (02:08:07):
And there's a whole section in that book talking about
how somehow, you know, they were they were able to
take trips government sanctioned to Russia, Russians coming to Esslin,
and that they performed some remote viewing experiment where one
of the mystics in Russia was able to hold some
object it was like a toy elephant or something, and
that one of the remote viewers at Esslin could then

(02:08:29):
tap into his awareness and they accurately described the thing
that they were holding. And so Russell Target is one
of these individuals that really big and promoting remote viewing
and access to these supernatural abilities.

Speaker 1 (02:08:40):
Well, this is like verging on like X men levels,
you know stranger things, you know, super kid type stuff
that that there were evolving these like latent powers.

Speaker 2 (02:08:52):
Right, yes, Well Kreipel has a famous article talking about
superheroes and comics and how this was actually the Again
that fifty sixties culture of science fiction was absolutely influencing
what they thought they were doing at the Eslin Institute,
and it was literally to create these supernatural humans through
psychological process against stalt therapy, different things like that to raise.

Speaker 1 (02:09:17):
Conscious Oh, if you've seen that Brian de Palmer movie
called The Fury, you should watch that. We did a
siop cinema, the CYP cinema, guys and I we did
an analysis of we called it MK Kids, which was
the idea of like movies that dealt with getted children
evolving to have these sort of X men abilities. Three

(02:09:40):
come to mind, one of which is from nineteen seventy eight,
and it's like Brian De Palmer's version of the Exorcist,
but it's actually worth watching because I mean it's there's
some crazy, like CIA intelligence type stuff in there. Like
it begins with Michael Douglas in Israel faking a T
E R R O R attack on like an Israeli

(02:10:02):
beach from Palestinians. It's very bizarre, and then it turns
into this whole big intelligence drama where they're experimenting on
his son because his son has these sort of latent
telekinesis abilities, so it turns into like a total sort
of MK Ultra style thing. There's also the Stephen King
Fire started with Drew Barrymore, which is about children developing

(02:10:25):
these things being studied by secret government projects telekinesis and whatnot.
And then there is The New Mutants with Anya Taylor Joy,
where it's a backstory to The X Men, where it's
like they're putting these children in this like secret school,
which is kind of what Professor X is doing, but
in that case it's more explicitly that trauma based mind

(02:10:47):
control is believed to spur on and cause these psychic abilities,
which is something that does come up in this literature.
So I'm not trying to get off into the weeds,
but there's actually quite a few moves these to touch
on this theme, right, I.

Speaker 2 (02:11:02):
Mean, we did a whole stream on Project Stargate point
well documented CIA funding project on again really research we
talked about this research coming out of Eslin is what
influences in the CIA in the eighties, developing Project Stargate,
which is ironically the same name of the new AI

(02:11:23):
project that Trump just oh right, So yeah, there a
lot of interesting connections in Eslin was essentially the intellectual
catalyst for all this stuff. This isn't I mean, you
can go as a regular person's very expensive, but as
Crypel talks about in that book, I mean almost if
you go in, you know, on a regular day, almost
everybody there's an academic or some type of professional. This

(02:11:46):
is kind of an elite place for elite people that
are interested in these projects. And eventually, you know, by
the eighties you get somebody like Terence McKenna who becomes
a resident lecturer there, and so you know, by the
eighties and into the nineties, psychedelics and psychedelics being something
that can liberate you from the historical constraints of man

(02:12:09):
is part and parcel of the Esslin Institute and where
it connects with transhumanism is By the nineties, Leary is
kind of given up on being the psychedelic LSD guru.
He writes a book like Your Brain Is God, where
he's arguing that computers are the new LSD and that
transhumanism is the future, and that everything that happened in
the sixties and seventies that he was a part of,

(02:12:31):
he's saying is going to be fulfilled through technology and
computer and AI.

Speaker 1 (02:12:36):
Did you ever there's a great documentary that's pretty famous.
It's called The Unibomber, The Net and mk Ultra or
something like that. Have you seen that?

Speaker 2 (02:12:45):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (02:12:45):
You got to see that because they actually go and
interview people at Esslin Institute and they even get into
stuff like the Vienna the positivists of the Vienna Circle
and how it all ties into LSD. And it's a
really good documentary. I'll try to dig that up and
find that you should definitely watch. Everybody audience to watch
that too, and everybody should watch the movies that we

(02:13:06):
just mentioned, including The Fury. They're they're all very relevant
to what we're talking about and demonstrate I think that
this is this is all real. This is not conspiracy stuff.
This's actually very legitimately. Like I'm not saying the telekinesis
powers are real. I'm just saying that they really do
study and are interested in this, and it's infected the
society so far as to like literally be the origins

(02:13:28):
indirectly of as he pointed out, the prosperity Gospel all
coming out of positive thinking. New thought, I think is
one of this too, is a new thought part of that.

Speaker 2 (02:13:38):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:13:39):
Okay, So anything else you want to tell us about this,
and then maybe we can tie it into you know,
transhumanism and anything else you want to say about your
your thesis here, because this is all this is how
we got in the modern world.

Speaker 2 (02:13:53):
Yeah, this is this is how we got to the
modern world. And I mean, I don't have much more
to say about es when we kind of hit it,
unless you want to get into minutia that maybe some
of the people would be interested in. But generally speaking,
I mean Eslin's just an important spot. I mean, when
you start talking about like Alan Watts and his Asian studies,
I forget exactly what it was the American study of

(02:14:15):
Asian culture or something in San Francisco. All this stuff
is spawned out of the Esslin Institute, which was closely
tied with Stanford University, which Stanford University is, and it's
closely tied. And this is the conduit of how all
this stuff is connected. And when you read the history
of Esline, you see that the government was not interested

(02:14:35):
in shutting all this stuff down, you know the way
that's presents the counter culture, right, they're fighting against the man.
But even in Kreipel's book, which is celebrated by the
founder of the Eslin Institute, it clearly shows that the government.

Speaker 1 (02:14:49):
Was completely retarded. I hate that narrative so much. Just
like the CIA, the Foundations, the Thing tanks, the military,
the Pentagon bankers, they're all putting zillions of dollars into
those exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (02:15:01):
And just like you pointed out about Maps, Maps is
now the academically respected study of like psychedelics. So if
you are an academic, you're going to be affiliated with
this group and publish your research and association with them.
And again that is all tied back to the Eslain Institute,
which as you said, is tied with Soros funding and
globaliss initiatives and all that different stuff, because it's fundamentally perennialists.

(02:15:25):
So the thing about Eslin that they don't accept is
if you to say one religion is absolutely true.

Speaker 1 (02:15:31):
The way the truth in the life John fourteen six, right,
that's the only thing that you can't say out.

Speaker 2 (02:15:36):
But if you're interested in perennialism, which is the basis
of that entire project, you're warmly welcomed and they don't
care where you come from or what you're into.

Speaker 1 (02:15:44):
I would add too, people overlook that Crowley is also
the father of the modern drug counterculture, right because Croly
wrote his drug Diary way before even Huxley was doing stuff,
and Uxley would go and do that. They would go
to borgies and drug parties together, him and Crowley, and

(02:16:05):
so doctor Richard Spence theorizes that Huxley got the idea
for drug experimentation, which is what would become in k Ultra,
through reading Croley's drug Diary. And I remember that Crowley
was of course an asset for British intelligence, so that
these things always overlap, and this is decades before the
existence of Esslin.

Speaker 2 (02:16:24):
And even tied with that general history is Jack Parsons,
who was a member of the Hermitic Golden Dawn with
Alix Da Crowley. They had it falling out because Parsons
was more radical than Crowley was according to Crowley. And
a little tidbit about l Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology,
is he documented an attempt that Jack Parsons had to

(02:16:48):
give birth to the Antichrist, in which him, Babylon working
committed participate in a sexual ritual with Jack Parson's girlfriend
at the time, which ended with el Ron Hubbard being
ashamed of himself because he's watched Jack Parson masterban Well.

Speaker 1 (02:17:02):
Also in Craig Heimbager's book, he even alleges that Parsons
was sleeping with his mom because in one of the
Suckybis rituals he believed that you know, I n c e. S. T.
Was was required for that.

Speaker 2 (02:17:17):
They're into weird stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:17:19):
Red Fox ten dollars day. Do you remember what the
military study was called? If you're referring to the one
that I mentioned about like black Ops and Positive Thinking,
it's it's from a online book that was published I
think by an Australian guy, and I did a podcast
on this because this is a really obscure, hard to

(02:17:39):
find book. And if you go to my rock Fin,
I don't I think it's it's probably from members too,
but it's like a rock fin is something like MK
ultra uh in Australia because people don't even know that
M culture wasn't just in America and Canada, it was
actually at universities all over the world. And uh, I
mean it's a lot. There needs to be like new

(02:18:01):
research done on this because I didn't even realize that
like Carl Jung and you and Cameron they were at
they were at Bergoldsey in Switzerland doing experiments and people
don't even talk about or know this.

Speaker 2 (02:18:14):
Well. The Sandals Lab where Albert Hoffman created LSD was
also on.

Speaker 1 (02:18:18):
Switch Land exactly exactly, and some guy wrote this book.
I'll have to I found it just randomly on like
a message board somewhere. I don't even remember the name
of it. I'll have to dig it up. But he
wrote a book about the history of M culture projects
in Australia basically, so there was all this research that

(02:18:38):
was done, even supposedly that serial killer who was doing
sleep studies and basically killed dozens of people at a
psychiatric and instead he's a famous he's most famous serial
killer in Australia. That was actually part of m kulture.
He was studying putting people to sleep to the point
of death and then bringing them back so like they're
when their heart rate would go all the way down
to death, and then bringing them back to see what

(02:19:02):
he could figure out. I mean, but that was actually
just a serial killers' getting off on doing it. I
forget that guy's named doctor Henry something. But that's all
basically all of it. Australia is a bunch of ultra stuff,
is all it is. But I did not remember the
name of the book. I'd have to dig it up,
but it is in my archive under M culture stuff.
You could find it in there. And in that talk

(02:19:24):
I referenced the book random Name two dollars. Mister Mythos
did an excellent video on Stargate. I don't know mister Mythos,
but I will say that doctor David Patrick, Harry and
I did a really good talk on Stargate, so I
would say, check out ours. I don't know this other dude,
a panini two euros? What is your SBD? What does

(02:19:45):
that stand for? We don't know what that means death
culture ten dollars. What do you guys take on intentional communities?
What are your thoughts, If you have any, it would
be get to develop social capital for Orthodox You know,

(02:20:06):
this does exist to a degree amongst Orthodox there are
people who are almost experimenting but attempting to create Orthodox
only communities sort of outside of town. And I mean,
I think that that's probably a wise approach in terms
of this country sort of going downhill. I don't think
that would be a problem. But I think when you

(02:20:28):
talk about intentional communities with like yoga chicks and you know,
man bun dudes doing you know, meditation, that's probably not
going to work out too well. So what do you
think about intentional communities?

Speaker 2 (02:20:45):
I mean, I think long term it's probably a good idea.
We talk about this in some of our group meetings
about in an ideal world, it'd be nice if there
were hubs of Orthodox all across the United States that
theoretically Orthodox Christians could travel and stop from community to community. Obviously,
there's one kind of already growing and exists outside Saint

(02:21:08):
Anthony's in Arizona. I mean, they basically have their own neighborhood.
So I think if if people were able to actually organize,
that's the difficult part. I think first we need to
begin with some type of some type of document that
can demonstrate all the Orthodox business owners. So if you
live in upstate New York and there's an Orthodox guy

(02:21:30):
that follows Jay and he's a plumber, go hire him.
We need to create some type of economic incentive first
of all, which we're so disconnected, we're so small in
the United States. It's kind of hard. But you know,
one of the ideas I had a place like Mississippi.
There's like old towns that have like one hundred to
two hundred people that used to be thousands of people

(02:21:51):
live there, and so they have like an infrastructure old,
kind of decrepit. But theoretically, imagine like one hundred Orthodox
families move into a town that has infrastructure like that
and begins to rejuvenate it, and then we can elect
our own mayor and we could kind of build our
own local government with something that already exists. But again,
making that happen logistically is just pretty difficult. But if

(02:22:15):
you know people that are interested have the same values, yeah, absolutely,
we need more of community and we need places where
people can actually have reassurance with each other in their neighbor.

Speaker 1 (02:22:27):
Big Iron, five dollars Jay, Doctor David Patrick carry, there's
a narrative that early Christians use psychedelics. I doubt it
was ever accepted. Do you think this is credible? Well,
you must have missed the first hour, because we covered
all that in the first hour, And no, we don't
believe that. A Panini says SBD means squat, bench deadlift.

(02:22:49):
So doctor David, what is your SBD? Silent but deadly.

Speaker 2 (02:22:54):
I don't do any maxing right now, so everything I'm
doing is like eight to fifteen reps, so squats, a
couple forty five's on each side, same with bench, and
probably three plates and a twenty five on deadlift stuff
like that. But I'm not a powerlifter, so I really
don't do any maxing out and try to find the
max amount of weight I can lift.

Speaker 1 (02:23:17):
Yeah, also, I would say, I mean, this is just
my opinion, But there are some issues like for example,
Rokor has had some issues with the monasteries in Arizona,
and when Laity go for confession or they go to
the monasteries, think they thinking that they're being like super
pious and then they get advice that monastics give to

(02:23:39):
other monastics. There have been multiple problems with this. Yes,
so it may not be the best idea to try
if you're going to set up an intentional community, to
necessarily think that we have to move next to a monastery.
And I mean, I'm not saying you can't, but I'm
just saying that may not be like the ideal situation.

(02:24:00):
But that's because I'm in rocor and there's certain issues
with that. Bon Jovi nineteen twelve, fifty dollars and says nothing. Well,
thank you so much. Appreciate that, sir, Jeff cost Us.
I'm sorry about the Galway storm gut question. You don't
have to apologize. That's just a question that you know.
We have answered that. I appreciate you answering it in
different ways, detail ways. Keep up the good work. Yeah,

(02:24:21):
I would just say read at Creation X Neilo by
William Line Craig, even though I don't typically recommend William
Liane Craig. But okay, so guys, don't want to remind
you too. We do have a show sponsor, which is
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remind you guys that next up, I'm halfway through Siphadin
almost is excellent book, The Bitcoin Standard. The first half
of the book covers the history of money. I didn't
even realize that you're basically getting an entire history lesson
on money. Of course, he is coming from the Austrian

(02:25:03):
school of economics largely, which is I would say about
eighty to ninety percent correct. I have some reservations about
Austrian economics, but overall it's definitely way better than socialist
or Keynesian economics, of which the first half is a
great critique. The second half then gets into the value
proposition for bitcoin as a currency, So we're gonna be

(02:25:25):
covering that next maybe tomorrow we'll see what I'm ready
to do part one, So be sure and come on
over and listen to our defense a bitcoin. I'm gonna
be dealing with all the objections. I've heard them all
a million times for the last nine years. I'm sure
all of you in the audience are going to have
all the same thought objections, So go ahead and bring it.
I'm ready. Let's get into Siphidine's book. And then of

(02:25:49):
course we have a doctor David Patrick. Harry's channel is
linked to be sure and follow him, and he is
in the show description and his logos academy. Do you
have any other issues, any other things on your mind
that you want Again, by the way, I don't remind
everybody the last time that Cotel and I did a stream,
it was one of my favorites because he brought me

(02:26:09):
on to talk about British intelligence and Islam. I love
talking about espionage and spy stuff, probably more than anything else. Well,
I said that it's equal up there with I mean,
obviously I talk about theology, but I'm saying, like, other
than the theological stuff, I like to talk about the
spy stuff and I like to do the comedic stuff.
So that's up there. So be sure and check out
our stream on British intelligence and Islam. That was a

(02:26:30):
fascinating topic. Kotel, What is on your mind? What are
you doing next? What should we be looking for?

Speaker 2 (02:26:39):
I mean The big thing that I'm doing next is,
as I mentioned earlier, is trying to get this dissertation published.
And so some of the stuff, as I kind of
gave an overview, I don't want to repeat myself, but
if you're interested in a detailed and then again, this
is very academic take on comparing Orthodox deification theosis and

(02:27:02):
how this has kind of been bastardized and how we
got to a point in which transhumanism is actually competing
with other Christian sentiments. And so there there is like
the Christian Transhumanist Association. It's actually i think headquartered in Tennessee,
maybe around Nashville.

Speaker 1 (02:27:18):
Even so that's in our neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (02:27:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's and it's not it's not really super influential,
but they are very outspoken and they try to they
try to incorporate like Saint Maximus the Confessor and Orthodox
Saints as like oh look again, they're not Orthodox. It's
a very progressive form of Christianity. It's non denominational, but

(02:27:41):
they are constantly appealing to Orthodox theosis as being the
continuity and strand that transhumanists is emerging from. And so
the dissertation, like, if you're interested in theories of mind.
We're talking about functionalism and what is the the the
metaphysics of a transhumanist paradigm, and these various groups that
are explicitly religious in their transhumanism. You know, there's the

(02:28:05):
Alcore Life Extension Center in Scott Steale, Arizona, this where
they're doing cryonic freezing and stuff like that. And the
head philosopher of transhumanism is Max Moore. He's an atheist
guy who actually has an article that I quote in
the dissertation called in Praise of the Devil where he
appeals to Satan. He argues, not an ontologically real figure,

(02:28:27):
but a perfect archetype to rebel against this constraining system
of Christian morality and Christian it's almost like a Nietzschean thing,
like the Christian slave morality. So that transhumanism can actually
elevate us to the promise that Lucifer, the true inspiration
of human liberation, can move us towards. And so that dissertation,

(02:28:51):
like I said, it's going to be a book titled
Return to Babylon From Adam to Antichrist is the kind
of working title that I got. I'm trying to come
up with a book cover right now, and so we
haven't fully landed on one that's perfect. But the general
theme I was thinking, and anybody has advised, feel free
to reach out to me, was something like an apocalyptic

(02:29:12):
dystopian wasteland where a Darwinian evolution of man actually begins
with like fallen Adam and leads to the transhumanist Antichrist,
and behind them is like an Orthodox Byzantine church or something,
and it's not affected by the detritus and all the
debris of the dystopian scene behind it, because there's not
really again, the academic title so long and verbose that

(02:29:36):
it's not catchy. So I came up with return to
Babylon from Adam to Antichrist, and I hope that something
of that theme. Again, we haven't landed on something. I've
been trying to use AI and stuff to get a
template and then my thumbnail guy who's going to help
actually create the actual book cover, so it's not just
AI generated. But I hope, as I said, to have
that out by August, and so I launched the Low

(02:30:00):
Academy that was the big one after the whatever podcast,
is trying to launch the community, get all the content
up there, again, if you joined today, it's it's the
last day to get the founding member price, which is
just twenty five dollars, and if you purchase for the
full year, it's two fifty. So you get two months
free and you get a free week. So if you
sign up, you automatically get a free week trial. So
if you get on there and you like.

Speaker 1 (02:30:20):
You get free weed. Yeah, free weed, it'd sound a lot.
Free week. That's a joke free week.

Speaker 2 (02:30:27):
Yeah. So you get on there and you're like, yeah,
this dph is full of shit, he doesn't, you know? Okay,
you can leave and not spend any your money. I
would assume if you spend your time and you actually
engage with the guys in the community, you're going to
appreciate it and find it worth your value. I mean,
this is gonna My goal is once we have three
four courtses, you know, the price to be a member

(02:30:48):
is going to continually to go up. So if that's
something you're interested in, and so, as I said, trying
to get some ebooks out, So by the end of
the year, my goal is to have one academic book,
which I know is not going to be a popular seller.
A couple general books for regular people, tied with courses
on the on the academy. But then I was speaking

(02:31:11):
with and I mentioned, actually, Rachel thought this was a
great idea. Is I was thinking about writing a book
for an eighteen year old male, because you look at
like Relo Tomoc, he's got the rational mail or you know,
a lot of the people in the manosphere are these
online content. I think Ruslan has his own book. They're
very general books for the average reader. And so everything

(02:31:31):
that I've written is not for the average reader, and
it's not going to be popular. It's very academic. So
I thought for something more popular oriented, is I was
going to do it write a book called The Crisis
of Man, and I want to start on this by
the end of the year and basically bring an eighteen
year old male who knows nothing up to speed on
the state of the world, so central banking, federal reserve,

(02:31:54):
Fiat currency, the meaning crisis, the death of God, you know,
the history of philosophy, how we get to the postmodern turn,
the death of masculinity, the destruction of a nuclear families,
all this different stuff that we're dealing with in culture,
and write it not so much for somebody who has
a background knowledge and this stuff, but assuming an eighteen

(02:32:14):
year old guy knows absolutely nothing to have like a
one hundred and fifty one hundred and seventy five page
book that kind of brings them up to speed. And
then the conclusion is orthodoxy. But it's not going to
be marketed as an orthodox book. It's just going to
demonstrate everything that we're dealing with again the crisis of
man and why orthodoxy is the ultimate solution. So my
goal is that will be a general reader, physical copy book,

(02:32:38):
and I hope to have that done by next summer.
So that's kind of the big things on the agenda.
And of course creating streams so you know, church eternal logos,
that's always going to kind of be the same thing.
And then I have an old YouTube channel that we mentioned,
the one on Psychedelics that I've kind of rebranded as
doctor David Patrick Harry, and I think that's going to

(02:32:59):
be more of like whatever's the popular topic people are
talking about. Do like video reviews. I mean you look
at like the Daily Wires level of content, it's really
just commentary on things that the people are doing.

Speaker 1 (02:33:09):
I watched it one hour of Ben Shapiro and I
was just just because I've never watched it, and it's like,
basically he just watches a clip and then tells you
what was in the clip that you just watched. And
I'm like, well, why are people paying for this? I
don't understand, literally, what's the value in this? Is so lame?
Go ahead?

Speaker 2 (02:33:23):
Basically the Daily Wire, Yeah, p Man two dollars.

Speaker 1 (02:33:26):
Is there an Elamite Islamistan, Mason, Persian caa connection? I
don't know. It's a lot of things strung together. I
think the CIA definitely has an interest in Shia Islam
and Iran and in that sense Persia. I don't know
about all that other stuff though. V Scott two dollars
is the site something that women can eventually join or

(02:33:47):
only menu?

Speaker 2 (02:33:49):
It's only for men right now. So last night we
had our first group meeting and it was overwhelmingly supported
by all the men that no women can join our meetings.
It's just an all male space. It's for male formation,
and we got guys that are very successful, like mature men,
and so the goal is to get young guys, established

(02:34:10):
men together and then talk about and learn about a
variety of different things. So no no women are allowed. Unfortunately.
I'm sure there's women only spaces, but the logos against.

Speaker 1 (02:34:21):
It's a woman. It's a black woman only space over
here on my channel. So all of you ladies, especially
black ladies, You're all welcome over here on my channel,
even though Cotel doesn't want you. I do, right, I'm
like Lady Liberty over here. I got that torch. Bring
me all of your sullen masses and your black ladies
over here on my channel. I'm just kidding. You look mad?

(02:34:46):
Is that making you med? You look like you're We've
been making jokes on my channel for a while now
that like there's only like nine percent female audience of
my channel in terms of the demographics. But I keep saying,
like black people popping up in the car. So I'm thinking,
like maybe I just have like nine percent black girl audience.
Don't know, but I'm just joking. I'm just joking, you know.

(02:35:10):
I think we need more all male spaces. It doesn't
even exist anymore, no, And that like feminists will like
sue you if you try to create that kind of
stuff on a big scale, Like if you try to
create a business, you know, like a cigar bar, that's
only for you know, guys, and then you'll get feminist.
It'll sue you. It's just insane. V. Scott says, two dollars.

(02:35:30):
It's totally fine. That's why I asked. Yeah, I think
I think probably most of the women in our audience
wouldn't care. I'm just making jokes and being silly. All right. Well,
hey man, thank you, great interview. Love to hear things
are going well for you. Congratulations on finishing the degree.
I know there's a lot of work. Really proud of you.

Speaker 2 (02:35:49):
I appreciate that, you know, and I would love to,
once I get it formatted, send you a copy.

Speaker 1 (02:35:56):
Yeah absolutely, I'll read it and you come on and
we'll do an interview.

Speaker 2 (02:36:00):
Yeah yeah, I'd love that. I'd love that.

Speaker 1 (02:36:02):
All right, Well, thank you so much. If you would
like to share a comment below and subscribe, and everybody
have a good evening.

Speaker 2 (02:36:10):
God bless.

Speaker 1 (02:36:14):
Hey, Thanks man, really good chat.

Speaker 2 (02:36:16):
Hey, thank you brother. I appreciate I appreciate that, especially
the opportunity just to expose it to people, So thank you. Man.

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