3AM—God’s Whisper or the Witching Hour?

In this first episode of the Lightbulb Ministries Podcast, Richard Moore, Rick Becker, and Daniel Long take aim at the popular but unbiblical idea that God wakes you up at 3:00 a.m. to give you fresh revelations, prophetic downloads, or mystical visions. We’ll expose the roots of this teaching, compare it with Scripture, and show why it’s more superstition than sound doctrine.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, if lad Savchuk's tune in the Holy Spirit, then
I got to figure out how to tune into the
Holy Spirit. And you try so hard in the end,
and you work so hard to be tuned in that
you actually are listening to yourself. You're listening to your
own thoughts in the end, and you're thinking that you
are tuned in the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
They've got to tune into their art frequency. They've got
to tie at least ten percent or God won't prosper them.
They've got to find out their prophetic personality to be
able to give accurate words of knowledge.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
And now they have.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
To wake up at three am on top of everything,
otherwise they're going to miss out on business plans or
this and that. It's a lot of rubbish. It's really
a form of divination.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Guys, I'm not kidding. Psychics do this. They talk about angels.
I have literally watched videos from psychics that talk about
how they communicate with their angels at certain times of
the day and early morning hours.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
You must understand is that the third watch of the
night is roughly from midnight twelve am to three am,
and then from three am to six am is the
fourth watch. Why is that important? Because Jesus spends time

(01:33):
with the Father at night, and around three am he
begins to walk towards his disciples on the water.

Speaker 5 (01:42):
One of the things I will say, I know that
the dreams that I have between three am and six
am are usually where God is talking to me more profoundly.
And I was talking to my doctor and he said,
the people that God talks to a lot in dreams,
it's that fourth watch normally when he speaks to that.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Right, yes, it is.

Speaker 6 (02:03):
That's what he.

Speaker 7 (02:04):
Said a lot of times. Right when I wake up,
I actually can hear the voice of the Lord. And
I don't hear an audible voice, but I can hear
the words. I can actually hear. It's like someone is
speaking inside my head. Now I'm not crazy.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
Welcome to episode one, everybody of the light Bulb Ministries podcast.
I'm your co host, Daniel Long, and I'm joined by
my other two co hosts. In the middle, we have
Rick Becker from the YouTube channel Famine in the Land,
and over on his other side we have Richard Moore
from Richard Moore's YouTube channel, and Richard, you call that

(02:40):
firm foundation. So I'm really excited guys, this is our
first episode. We have been wanting to get together and
do this for months now, and we've even I even
shared it on social media and everything, and we hadn't
we just record, and then something would come up and
then we had to just postponed. So really glad to

(03:02):
have you, guys. My other three bald fellas sitting with.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Sitting with.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Rick, Rick wife was Rick's wife was just in the room.
She said, what does she say?

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Rick? She said, she said, looked, that's.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
All right, all right? So why you know, why how
did this whole thing come together? I'm let what do
you guys explain how this whole thing came together?

Speaker 2 (03:30):
I think Jake Idiot, well, you know, our good our
mutual friend, Jake Idiot, he saw something. I'm not sure
what he saw, but he said, you guys really do something,
because you know, you look like light bulbs. I think
that's where we came up with the idea of old ministries. Yeah,
I think it was Rich's idea, you know, preaching preaching

(03:52):
the gospel with boldness.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Is actually I got a corrector there. That was Robin who.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Came up.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
She came up with the preaching the Gospel with baldness.
I really I really like. But this is our first,
this is our first episode, and we are gonna be
talking about the I don't want to call it the
witching Hour, but uh three a m Is what the
new agers call their witching hour, but cares a lot
of I want to say, hyper charismatic teachers will talk

(04:23):
about the same thing, like it's some kind of special hour,
some kind of special spiritual hour that God is working
more clearly and and you can see, you can hear
more clearly from him, and you can maybe have some
dreams and visions and other things. And so we're gonna
be discussing that.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
But you forgot revelations, dreams, visions and revelations. You can got.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Dreams, visions and revelations. And we're gonna be we're gonna
be looking at well, not not full videos. I made
some clips, but we've got uh Savchuck we're going to
be looking at because he talks about this. We've got
one clip from Perry Stone, and we've got a few

(05:10):
clips from the Bevier's John and Lisa from their their podcast.
So you guys have watched the videos, what are your
first What are your first? Richard what's your first thought
on these videos that you've checked out, this this whole
idea of the three am thing special time.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, you know, I don't know. I was kind of weird,
honestly right at first, like what is what's it about
three am? And why that? And then I immediately thought, well,
that is the witching hour. Three to four am is
the witching hour. And I'm like, and so, you know,
all these guys that we're going to cover today talk

(05:48):
about there's revelations to be had, there's extra you know,
visions you can have, and and I thought, what, why
are why is so many? Why are so many people
talking about this three am thing? And it's three am,
you know, and the Bevier's I believe it was, they
speak specifically it has to be three am or some
god wakes you up exactly at three am, you know,

(06:09):
you look over at your alarm and it's three am,
you know, not one three oh one or two fifty nine.
And I thought, what's that about? Where? Where is that
even from? And then I actually thought, just right before
we started recording here, where do I see a lot
of people being woken up and getting extra dreams and
visions and revelations and it's sid Roth's It's Supernatural show.

(06:31):
If you go on that show, you have to have
some kind of special dream and vision of revelation. You know,
you wake up at three am and you're you know,
transported to Heaven or something like that, you know what
I mean. Or you have are you transported to Hell
maybe you know, or you have electricity pulsing through your
body like like Bill Johnson, and so you know, like

(06:55):
that might be the actual kind of glue that holds
the thing together. Where these guys getting that or they
actually seeing like sid Ross show and thinking, well, I
got to have my own little three am experience, so
maybe I'll just make that up. I don't know, It's
just it was it thought I had when I Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, they try they try to. They try to get
this stuff from the Bible, right they they they have.
It's just it just amazes me. I don't understand it.
But they do try to use versus and they take
these ver isolated, these these verses and they pull them
right out of their context and they try to make
it match their doctrine that somehow three am is this

(07:37):
special time you know, uh, and we'll see that as
we as we look at these clips. But Rick, you
got anything you want to add?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, just similar to what you guys thought initially. Isn't amazing,
Like you get teachings that seem to be popular, and
you know they cotton onto each other's teachings, so they
just added a little bit in and uh it is,
uh yeah, very mystical and more into paganism than Christianity
what they're actually teaching. But I'm sure we're gonna get

(08:06):
into that.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, all right, well you want to go ahead and
watch the first clip. This is gonna be from Vlad
sav Chuck.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
Three pm, your phone is buzzing, you're busy. By nine
ten pm, your brain is fried. But at three am,
it's just you and God. It's a perfect time to
reconnect with him for prayer, some journaling, tears and just listening.
And it's not that God is trying to be inconvenient.
Actually he's being intentional and sometimes it may feel like

(08:38):
an interruption, when in reality it's actually God's invitation Psalm
sixty three, ver six. It says, when I remember you
on my bed, I meditate on you in the night
watches see David understood something powerful. God often stirs people
in the middle of the night, not to mess with
their sleep, but to draw them close. In Job chapter

(09:01):
thirty three, verses fourteen through fifteen, it says, for God
speaks again and again, he speaks in dreams, in the
visions of the night, when deep sleep falls on people
as they lie on their beds, God might be speaking, warning, revealing,
and you got to respond, not just the roll over.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
David understood this principle. I mean that, I mean I
went and I went and looked at that Psalm and
just read it in context, which is I think we're
going to do that, but it has nothing to do
with what he's talking about at all. But yeah, David,
David understood something really powerful there. That God works at

(09:43):
that time of the morning. They call it the night,
so they called the fourth watch. And they're going to
be talking about that a lot too, this this idea
of fourth watch of the night. Each each one of
them do that, Perry Stone, the Bevier's, they all say,
they all say the same thing.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
But well, now let me jump in here, Dan, I
want to jump in here right away because that that clip,
and early on in all three of the clips that
we were looking at, you know, all three viers, and
it seems like these are pretty good ideas, like, you know, yeah,
I woke up, I woke it up at three am

(10:21):
before you know, probably because of you know, we haven't
used restroom. I don't know if y'all ever seen that. Uh,
you know, Yoda is sitting there on the toilet trying
to you know, stay asleep. You know, that's me most
of the time, you know, but that seems pretty good,
like pretty good advice, Like maybe the Lord is trying
to lead me to something and that can this these clips.

(10:44):
But the deeper you go into the clips and the
deeper they go into their explanationial scripture, the more you see, wow,
this is sideways and a lot of different for a
lot of different reasons. But on the first, you know,
the first few minutes, I think I'll actually communicate with
you all during the week, like oh yeah, the Bevier's
and how they talk. It's you know, first ten minutes

(11:06):
or so, it seems really great. You know, like, hey,
this is a great idea to you know, use your
time wisely and not just you know, if you're awake,
you're like, oh, what do I do now to put
all your thumbs or you know, you actually get a
journal out and try to pray and try to connect
with God and try to read the word. And and
then the more you dig into it these videos, really

(11:27):
the more sideways you see that it gets. And these scriptures,
like you said, Dad just taken out of the context
and you know, may put an emphasis on the wrong syllable.
As we say, you know, three am is there's some
real reason for three am having this spiritual significance that
some other time in the day does not have.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, I mean there's there's we're not
criticizing people for getting up early and praying early. There's
nothing wrong with That's a good thing, you know. It's
it's it's good to get up, it's good to spend
time with the Lord. It's good to read your Bible,
it's good to spend time in prayer. That's not what
we're saying. But the way that these guys make it
seem is that this whole time period, this early morning

(12:14):
three am kind of thing, there's some kind of spiritual
significance here, like like it's like you're gonna be more
in tune with God at three am, then you're gonna
be with him while you're working. But one of the
things I want to bring up is, I mean, think
about the early Christians. That's one of the things I

(12:35):
was thinking about the early Christians when they you know,
you know, they they they many of them were slaves,
I mean, and so they they ended up there. They're working,
you know, throughout the early morning hours and they're taking
care of things. And you know, Paul says is speaking
to to Christians like that saying, and I believe that's

(12:58):
one of the reasons why says, pray conti annually. There's
no there's nothing a scripture that says there is some
kind of special time that you're going to be able
to connect with God. Like there's some kind of time
period where God's going to be able to get through
to you more like three am. Because there's no distractions
or something. God's going to be able to He's going

(13:18):
to be able to talk to you better at this time. No,
I mean passes, pray continually, pray without ceasing, you know,
And that's what that's what we have to do. I mean,
I don't know, I don't know what are your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, it's Benny Johnson talks about a thin veil. And
in one of her books she talks about standing into
this thin veil with her friend. They got so drunk
they could hardly find their way back to the car.
But it's a thing we see, particularly in the new
Epistolic Information, isn't it? Thin veil? Open Heaven? Richard Gordon
from Bethel speaks about opening portals. So this really is

(13:57):
the kind of magic I mean. And if you look
at Glad, you know a lot of these guys are
just as you said, Daniel, taking Old Testament scriptures way
out of context, taking a descriptive text and making it
into a prescriptive text. And actually, if you read you
know these guys are going to reference Job a lot.
But if you read that passage, it says that God
speaks to them in dreams. It doesn't say that he

(14:17):
wakes him up. And if you read the very next
verse what happens, it says he terrifies the hearts of men.
That's what he does during the night watch. We're not
going to see a lot of terror. We're going to
see a lot of business plans and revelations and all
kinds of nonsense.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Let's go over, let's go around and just look at
that passage really quickly and uh, yeah, I've got it.
I've got it said here. So well, I'm in psalm
right now because I wanted to. Let me just try to.
I gotta get over here on my main computer here
and get that. Uh, give me a second, guy, there
we go. Okay, so let me come over here to job.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
I mean if you look at it in context. For
God speaks in one way and in two, though man
does not perceive it in a dream and a vision
of the night when deep sleep falls on men while
they slumber on their beds. Then he opens the ears
of men and terrifies them with warnings that he may
that he may turn aside, that he may turn man

(15:23):
aside from his deed and conceal pride from a man.
He keeps back his soul from the pit, his life
from perishing from the sword. So God does these things
to bring you know, according to this passage, he's doing
it to bring about repentance and to save a man's
life from judgment.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
You know, they kind of to conveniently leave those six
portions of this out. You know, God wants to wake
you up, according to the Bevier's to you know, really
just love on you and just squshy ushy gushy love,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
And so we lost Richard there. So we're back now
and Richard's with us. So Richard, you had something to
say about this passage?

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, you know, I don't know where we are and
in the story of Job. But maybe Job, the Book
of Job, is not a great idea to take, uh,
you know, wisdom from because his friends are dufuses, you
know what I'm saying, like they're just I'm just thinking,
you know, I don't know where what what chapter is?
We have to look at Continent.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
Chapter thirty three, thirty three, Yeah, it's chapter thirty so
it's getting close to the getting close to to the
to the end. And Job's got like forty chapters.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
I think, is this Job speaking though? So these are
things we got.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
No, this is not Joe's thinking. No, this is not
Job speaking. This is this is go back up. This
is Eli Eli Eli who Ili who.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Those guys were not the smartest tools in the shed,
you know what I'm saying, Like they were dufuses. They
gave him really bad advice. So maybe may just maybe
this is not wisdom from God. Does that make sense.
So you know, scripture is scripture. It's all inspired by God.
But we have we have hermeneutics and exegetical rules and law.

(17:14):
May we interpret things? So you got to know who's speaking?
Is Eli who? Now we got to see this his
wisdom line up with the wisdom of scripture or is
this yeah speaking? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I see Yeah, bad
gave bad advice.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah yeah they did. They did. Go ahead, Richard Ricky,
We're gonna say something.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Well, I mean God does say he will speak in dreams,
so you know that part is correct. But as we
saw the message that came with the dream, wasn't it tickling?
You know, you're amazing, You're awesome, you know, do this
and do that.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, but it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
How they ye know, they you know, give the whole
scope of God speaking from Genesis to Revelation. How does
he speak to the believer under the New Covenant in
the New Testament church?

Speaker 3 (18:03):
They totally Yeah, that's where I was going next. Right
here in Hebrews chapter one, long ago, at many times
and in many ways. Right here, long ago, at many
times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers
by the prophets like the dreams, like the visions like uh,
you know, the terrors in the night. But in these

(18:25):
last days he has spoken to us by his son,
whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom
he also created the world. So we have, you know,
we have places in scripture in the New Testament that
tells us how God speaks today. That's how he used
to speak. He spoke through prophets, and he spoke through

(18:50):
you know, in dreams and in visions. But in these
last days he speaks through his son. And how does
he do that. He does that through scripture, through the
apostles teaching. You know, you go back to the last
few chapters of the Gospel of John, and you can
see Jesus telling them that he's going to bring to

(19:11):
remembrance the things that he had said, and he's referring
to that. And these guys wrote down with Jesus, some
of them wrote down what Jesus said, you know. And
the guys that did, we have, we have that teaching,
We have what Jesus, what Jesus said.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Through one thing we could add to that passage, exactly
one thing we could add to that passage is tewod
Peter one seventeen. Maybe I'll read it while if you
can look it up, it's where Peter is exactly, starting
at one seventeen. Or let's see, you know, starting at

(19:49):
verse eighteen to Peter one verse eighteen, and Peter's describing
the Holy Transfiguration, and he's describing the Holy Transfiguration and
he says, we saw that we were there, you know.
So second Peter at one eighteen and I have an ESV.

(20:10):
What do you have there, I've got ESV.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
You can start at verse sixteen. I read it.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, maybe we just start verse sixty and give context,
because context is king. For we did not follow cleverly
devised miss when we made known to the power in
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. But we were eyewitnesses
of his majesty, the majesty on the mountain of Transfiguration.
For when we received honor, he received honor and glory

(20:36):
from God the Father, and the voice was born to
him by the majestic glory. This is my beloved son,
with whom I am well pleased. We ourselves heard this
very voice born from heaven. For we were with him
on the holy mountain. We saw the thing man, and

(20:56):
this real vision too, I mean not vision. This was
a really experience. This actually happened.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
They saw transfigured, they heard the Novice, they saw Moses
and Elijah.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Not the silly dreams of visions revelations that we see
on said roths. That's supernatural. No, not those exactly exactly
vision of Jesus Christ. And then he says, and we
have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you
will do good well to pay attention to as a
lamp shining in dark place until the day dawns and

(21:31):
the morning star rise in ourts. What's the prophetic word.
It's scripture, Yeah, he is. And he says that in scripture.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
And he says that in verse twenty one, for no
prophecy produced by the will of man, but men spoke. Well,
I'm sorry, I'm I'm off there. Knowing first of all,
there it is starting in verse twenty knowing this first
of all that no prophecy of scripture comes from someone's
own interpretation, was ever produced by the will of man,

(22:01):
But men spoke from God as they were carried along
by the Holy Spirit. So we're we know he's talking
about scripture and how that is a that that's more
fully confirmed than even Peter's real experience. When experience, you know, experience.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
See count it.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
They would pull it an encountert Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yes, they would call it an encounter. That's exactly right.
Let's move on to the next clip. If you guys
don't mind, we're still on Vlad Savchalk.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
I remember when this happened to me on my international trip.
At first, I perceived that as a jet leg where
I arrived it was a total different time zone and
I couldn't sleep. So around three o'clock in the morning,
you know, I went out. There was a very tall building.
I think I was like on twentieth floor or something,
and you know, I was looking into the city and

(22:52):
you know, everybody's sleep and there's this quietness about it,
and I just can't sleep. And so I've had this
happen before, and you know, some people to recommand take
a little bit of melatonein to help you fall asleep,
and some people, you know, recommend this, and some people
recommend that. And I remember, at that point, instead of
trying to find a way, how do I go back
to sleep as soon as possible, or how do I

(23:13):
try to beat this jet leg, I actually tuned myself
to the Holy Spirit, and I started to spend time
with him. It wasn't very loud praying because there was
other people staying in the room. I started to connect
with the Holy Spirit. I remember this encounter till this
day because that day he told me to walk away

(23:38):
from my real estate. So I had a little bit
of real estate investment. And the Holy Spirit pulled a
scale over my eyes. He removed the veil, and I
saw that the reason why I was doing that, this
was me communicating with him, was because of my fear
that if things don't work out with ministry or this
and that. And then he challenged me. He said, I

(23:59):
want you to give up that real estate. I want
you to sell the first property and give all the
proceeds away, and then the second year, sell the second
property and give the proceeds away as you and your
wife decide, but it has to be generous. And then
he said, on the third year, I will give you
an idea that's consistent with your calling, and it will

(24:21):
have some passive income, but it will have an active
impact on my kingdom and everyone around the world.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
So do you notice how they use their own stories
as evidence that this doctrine is correct, they'll throw a
few verses of scripture that have nothing to do with
what they're talking about.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Okay, what's really irritating, frustrating and makes my blood boil
is like, you've seen a perfect example of God giving
him very specific plans, right, and you wont do this
in you to do that in year three? This is
going to happen such specific, detailed business plans. But at
the same time they pitch all kinds of false doctrines

(25:10):
and God doesn't ever tell him listen, you preaching heresy,
you need to repent. That's never the case. So immediately
we know you can dismiss anything they say that God
has told him, because the biggest thing that God would
ever tell him is repent of your false doctrines. And
that just doesn't happen from these people who are so
tuned into the Holy Spirit and hear from God on

(25:31):
a daily basis. Yeah, it's it's so obvious that they're frauds.
They're not hearing from God.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
No, yeah, I think you know, I'm thinking, you know,
tune into the Holy Spirit. He says at the beginning,
how do we do that exactly? And where a scripture
that shows us how to do this. It's just made up.
It's contrived to tune into the Holy Spirit. I think
it was Benny hen actually in his book Good Morning,
Holy Spirit, he said he was tuned into the Holy

(25:59):
Spirit and that that that encounter with the Holy Spirit
led to his conversion. So it was it's backwards, it's backwards. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
Well for all of them, and they they make it
seem like you have to be doing something in order
for in order for you to hear God's voice. So
if God wants to speak to us, is he not
powerful enough just to you know, just to speak right
to us. But the way they make it out, the

(26:30):
way they make this stuff out, is you have to
be really in tune with God. So you have to
cut off all distractions and you have to really allow
God to speak. And I don't know of any prophet
or Anyboddy in scripture who heard God's voice that where

(26:52):
they had to allow God to speak. They had to
go sit in a quiet place, and they had to
turn off all distractions and they had to listen, you know,
for the voice of God. It's like they have this week,
this week God.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
But yeah, can you think of any prophet of God
who said, you know, I was really at three am,
I was really tuned into the Holy Spirit, and he
said to me that you need to walk away from
these real estate things that you have. In the first year,
you've got to sell the first property. The second year
you've got to sell the second property. Is any of
that sound at all like biblical prophecy or biblical revelation.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
No, not at all, not at all.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
And I wanted to to say one thing too, sorry, sorry,
one more thing. He told him to walk away from
real estate. I just doubt that the Holy Spirit said
such a specific thing to him to sell real estate.
And it reminds me, you know, it reminds me of
a biblical story. It does. It reminds me of the

(27:55):
couple Anonias and Saphira. Do you all remember that story.
I think they they both sold some real estate as well,
but they wanted to be seen by men. And it
seems like lad Savajak is showing how great it has
to be generous. The Spirit told him I had to
be generous, and so what's he doing. He's saying, look

(28:17):
at me, I am generous, and and an Issen Saphira
did the same thing. And they lied to the Holy Spirit.
And Peter said, who has how has Satan filled your
heart to lie to the Holy Spirit by basically making
yourself look better than you really are.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
But they all do this, I mean, and that's the thing,
and that that's what this thing does, is it elevates it.
It elevates them to a position of authority where you know,
if God is speaking to me, you better listen to
what I'm saying. Kind of authority. You know, we've talked
about this, all three of us have on our own,

(28:56):
on our own channels. But if God speaks, it doesn't
matter if he whispers to your heart or if he
speaks audibly, or if you're reading it in scripture. If
God is speaking to you, then that that message, whatever
it is that he gives, is as authoritative as scripture
because it is God actually doing the speaking. But these

(29:18):
guys will say things like I feel God is saying
to me, I think God is saying to me. And
yet at the same time they say that they you know,
they say that they're doing greater works than Jesus. Now,
wouldn't that translate over to hearing the voice of God.
It was justin Peters who said, when you look at

(29:40):
New Testament prophecy, and you look at anything from New Testment,
the New Testament is better. It's a better covenant. So
wouldn't prophecy be better too? But prophecies not better because
they say you can get it wrong, you know. And
so hearing the voice of God is something now in
the in the New Covenant that you have to strive for.

(30:03):
That you have to you have to to remove the
distractions and give God a chance. Just give them a chance,
you know that kind of thing or permission any way,
permission or do you have to have you have to
have a radio receiver to tune in.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
I mean how you do that? Do you tune in
with the dials or something like back in the day
when we're in our cars or we had to tune
into the I mean, what are we talking about?

Speaker 2 (30:29):
That that's actually Methyl actually teaches that. They use the
word frequency and they will say, if you're not hearing
from God, it's because you're tuned into the wrong frequency.
But that's so true. You know, everything has been upgraded
in the New Testament, accept you know, prophecy and how
we hear from God. So it leaves the poor believer
in this no man's land, hoping that God is powerful

(30:52):
enough or that he's on the right frequency to tune
into God. It's such a despicable doctrine that plays such
a heavy burden on people.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
That that is exactly right. And I think that's why
episodes like this from not just you know, from this podcast,
but from others. So you know, you hear Chris Rosberg
talking about this, Steve Cozar talking about this, that this
is this is really important stuff because this really does
leave a heavy burden on people. How many how many

(31:22):
emails have you gotten from people that said, you know,
when I was in this movement, it was like this,
this just this weight on me. But now that I've
come out of it, it's like it's it's lifted, you know,
because you don't have to strive to hear the voice
of God. All you have to do is open up
scripture and you're going to hear the voice of God.
That is that is God's that's the surefire way you're

(31:45):
gonna hear God speak ye.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
And that's what it does to people. That actually really
hurts people in the sense of, you know, so, oh,
if lad Savchuk's tune in the Holy Spirit then I
got to figure out how to tune into the Holy Spirit.
And you try so hard in the end, and you
work so hard to be tuned in that you actually
are listening to yourself. You're listening to your own thoughts

(32:07):
in the end, and you're thinking that you are tuned
in the Holy Spirit, and they're not. It's not God
speaking to you. It's your own Maybe it's your own
sanctified thought life. Maybe it's scripture maybe, but you're actually
in the end, you are thinking that God is speaking
to you when you're putting an immense amount of pressure

(32:28):
on yourself to get a word from God that whether
that's prophetic word, whether it's a vision, whether it's three
am or whatever. You want to write something, you have
to write something in your journal, and it's really ends
up coming from your own conscience or whatever.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
And we want to be clear, we're not saying that
God can't do these things. We're not saying that God
can't speak apart from scripture, that he's limited like somehow
you know he has he's you know, he's powerless to
do that. He's God. He can do whatever he wants
to do. But the primary way does speak is through scripture.
That's the surefire way we know we are actually hearing

(33:06):
from God. I mean, when you hear that little, still
small voice that you or that what you think is
a still small voice in your heart, you have to
sift through. Okay, was that and me? Was that God?
Let's see, maybe Jeremiah says that the heart is deceitful
and desperately sick above all things, and that doesn't change

(33:27):
just because we become Christians. I've heard excuses like, well,
you know that's you know, that's before we were saying
because Ezekiel says that God gives us a new heart, Well,
it does give us a new heart, but it doesn't
mean that our new heart isn't sinful, and it doesn't
mean that our new heart can't be deceived. Otherwise there
would be no Book of Galatians, there being no Book
of Colossians. At first John wouldn't have been needed to

(33:50):
be written because these guys were writing to combat false
teaching that had come in crept into the church and
deceived Christians. So I mean, yeah, we can still be
deceived even though we have new hearts, and so you
have to sift through this. This whole Oh, it was
it God or was it me? Well, let's see, I
gotta see if it matches through scripture. Why not just

(34:11):
open just open the Bible and read it. I mean,
then you're going to know for sure that God is
actually speaking to you. You don't have to worry about sifting
through a bunch of sinful stuff in your heart, you
know anyway?

Speaker 1 (34:24):
All right, yeah, yeah, it is objective.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
What did you say, Rick, m.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Hm, No, I'm saying no. We we we saved, you know,
we justified and cleansed in his blood. But until we die,
we are stuck with the biggest problem that we all have.
And it's not the devil. It's an unsinful flesh. So
even as a because a lot of people get confused
about this and say, well, you know, how can that be,
so that you know what you mentioned in Jeremiah, how

(34:55):
can I have a wicked heart when I'm born again?
But you're living with the flesh, your own flesh, and
that I mean, in fact, if you read through the epistles,
the biggest war we wage is with our own flesh,
isn't it. And unfortunately there's no quick fix and magic
cure for that. And you can't cost or bind your
own flesh. So it's a process of dying to self daily.
But that is a big problem, is our flesh.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yeah yeah. Martin Luther said that we are similar useless
at pecatur at the same time righteous and center. So
we we have that sinful flesh that we have to
deal with day in and day out, and yet at
the same time we have been made righteous in Christ.
All of Christ's righteousness, all of his perfection, was credited

(35:43):
to our account, and he has God looks at us
as if you know, we did the same good works
as Christ did, because all of his works is counted
as our works, you know, which is just glorious.

Speaker 8 (36:01):
But at the same time, yeah, I'm sorry, rich, Yeah,
exactly overlap, no worries, Yeah, I think sorry, it's hard
to hear the delay, guys, so we feel it's not
like we're interrupting each other.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
But yeah, sorry about that. So I would contend actually
that these folks, they don't believe we have a sinful nature.
I think there's a lot of Pelagianism floating around in
this movement. We see it with people like Bill Johnson's
son who years ago preach we don't have a sid nature.
I think there's a lot of belief actually in the

(36:36):
movement that we do not have a sin nature, that
we are not similusas at Pecatur, like Luther said, we
have to say, you know that the flesh still working
in us. You know, you see Bethel, you know, the
root of sin is uprooted. It's uprooted, it's completely out.
You are you have no, you don't have that sin anymore.

(36:56):
And so I think there is a tendency. I don't
know what you think, Rick, because you know Bethel a
lot well pretty well too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Well, actually I think it was Eric Johnson and he
said we have to come from the assumption that man
is inherently good. You know, that's from a message many
years ago. But you're right, And Chris Valeton teaches you
if you focus on your sin nature, there's something wrong
with you. So you know that you're right, Richard. That's
exactly what they teach, and even Bill Johnson teaches, you know,

(37:29):
when it comes to evangelism, call out the gold in people.
So they just see, you know, righteousness inherent in man
that is absolutely not there. Without the imputed righteousness of Christ,
we're all in big.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Trouble, right, Yeah, that would be a really good episode
for us to do, guys, for us to talk about
you just have a conversation.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Definitely got there. Let's do that would be a good one.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
And in the meantime, let's move on to the next
clip because we have a few more clips to go.
So here's the next one.

Speaker 7 (37:55):
So my point that I want to make to you is,
if you ever wake up at three o'clock, be very
sensitive because usually if you pray, you can go back
to sleep, and you can actually receive something from the
Lord through a dream or a vision or through an inspiration.
A lot of times, right when I wake up, I
actually can hear the voice of the Lord. I've had
this on probably five major occasions where he told me

(38:18):
something that actually came to pass. And I don't hear
an audible voice, but I can hear the words. I
can actually hear. It's like someone is speaking inside my head.
Now I'm not crazy, because the Bible said Jesus said
my sheep here and know my voice. But I knew
that we were going to kill Ben Lauden. I heard
the whole conversation right when I was waking up one
morning many years ago, and it happened one week later.

(38:40):
I've heard the Lord tell me certain people were going
to be married, and that happened exactly the way the
Ord told me. So three o'clock in the morning gets significant.
So I'm suggesting to you that if you ever wake
at three o'clock, excuse me and your troubled, you may
be having a burden to pray for someone. So don't
ignore that time, because there seems to be a period
of time where there is this really tremendous he's full
open window of heaven during that time in the morning.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
All right, So first thing that comes to mind, what
is the first thing that comes to mind for you guys?
What listening to that? What is the first thing that
comes to your mind after listening to that? What do
you guys want to chime in?

Speaker 1 (39:18):
I'll chime in. Go ahead, we're all good jumping out
your gun there, Oh my goodness.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
And let me let me just say to the folks,
we are having a delay. I'm having a delay on
this end. You can see the video freezing up. So
we're gonna do our best to take care of that
in post. But anyway, go ahead, Richard.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
I think it was wild, he says, he knew that
we were gonna kill Ben Lawden.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
Yeah yeah, so so like that, Yeah, well that's the
thing that's a big prophecy his I mean that that
that's something that Perry Son talkt has talked about multiple
times that God is given him this. God gave him
this prophecy, so he must be a genuine prophet. My
question is, what was the purpose?

Speaker 1 (40:06):
What?

Speaker 3 (40:07):
What purpose did it solve?

Speaker 1 (40:08):
What?

Speaker 3 (40:08):
What good did it do for anything? You know that
God's going to tell him people's people are going to
be married and they are married. Boy, that's kind of
scary we had with the whole you know, especially after
that whole Sean Bolts incident, you know, where you know,
he told somebody prophesied that somebody was going to be married.

Speaker 6 (40:28):
My goodness, scripture so strictly for it's this sculpture forbids
this to forbid people to marriage or to or to
control people in marriage. It's it's as clear as day.
I don't know why how this this is not seen.
I knew a guy who was caught up in the
Morning Star movement years ago, and a prophet tried to

(40:50):
forbid him from marrying this girl he was interested in
and the reason he wanted to he was doing that
was because he wanted he was interested in the girl.
I mean, wowp scripture really forbids.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, of course he was. Of course he was interested in.
But it's just amazing to forbid or to tell people
that you're getting married like you, like you said you
mentioned Sean Bowles and Jubilee Dawn and and uh, prophesying
people get married is wow. I mean it gives me

(41:23):
shades of of Iye Hoop and their control and manipulation
there where you know, uh, Mike Bickle that his wife
would die that he could marry these other girls. It's amazing. Man,
Perry Stone, he's he's in a lot of trouble lately. Anyways,
I don't know Mike Wingers exposing him over there on

(41:44):
his channel too, is.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
He exposing Perry Stone as well?

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Like we were got on the train and it's it's
just got more of a visibility now because Mike's throwing
his his platform to it. And anyways, but that was yours.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Yeah, exactly, very good, very good. Any anything else on
that clip that you guys wanted to mention Nothing.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
I'll tell you what with with with without Google Modern
day profits wouldn't exist. They would have a voice because
they were you know, That's that's all they can do.
And as you rightly say, Dan, you know what is
it got to do with salvation or sanctification. It's just
to point to themselves. And obviously we know, you know,
when Jesus said my sheep, hear my voice, he was
talking in a in a figurative sense, and that was

(42:27):
to do with salvation, you know. So and and also
you know every time, every time, you know, when they
talk about God whispered something, Lisabervia does it open over.
But but eventually, you know, a larger heard, an audible voice,
you know, forget about all these whispers and things we
have to try and decipher of what God is trying
to get through to us.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
It's yeah, yeah, absolutely, And speaking of the Beaviers, are
you guys ready to jump on the Bavier bandwagon?

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Here? Let's do it. This.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
This is Lisa and John's podcast. They have a couple
of you They have what three YouTube channels or something,
but yeah, this is one of their YouTube channels. This
is the two of them together.

Speaker 5 (43:09):
I tell a little story because I know you are
an early riser. I remember when I had. I just
had Addison, it didn't have any other kids, and I
really wanted to hear.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
The voice of God.

Speaker 5 (43:22):
I was really tired of everybody saying God said this,
and God said that.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
I'm like, okay.

Speaker 5 (43:26):
I love scripture and I love the feeling I get
when I listen to worship music and I feel like
the Holy Spirit just wraps it with love and I'm
emostally connected with it. I love when I hear a
gifted minister, or you know, the Holy Spirit brings repent.
But I want to hear the voice of God. I
want to know his voice the way these people know

(43:47):
his voice. And so I offered God my most precious gift,
which was sleep. I mean, you have a newborn kid.
You're like, yeah, yes, breastfeeding mother.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
I was like, you can even wake me up at night.

Speaker 5 (43:59):
And I remember he woke me up during this watch
and I remember thinking, no, no, not the three am
six am. I was going to get them at six
am anyway. And the first night I just went back
to bed, and then the next night I think I
might have done the same thing. And then the third night,
when it happened three times, I was like, it's God

(44:19):
calling to me.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
There you go. Now, this is this is one of
the things that really bothered me, is one of it.
This was at the beginning of that the beginning of
that podcast episode. I want to hear the voice of God.
You know, I love scripture. I love it. It's the best.
But I wanted to hear God speak to me personally.

(44:44):
And it sounds very much like Sarah Young. She gives
that same testimony in Jesus Calling, where she says, I
love scripture, but I wanted to hear the voice of
God for myself, you know, And so same kind of thing,
as if as if scripture is not sufficient enough to

(45:05):
hear the voice of God. That's that's the sad thing,
you know, scripture not you know, kind of put on
the scriptures, put on the back burner. This this experience
trumps it, you know. All right, yep, we're on, go ahead, Rick.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
So the thing is when these are Ravera refers to
these people who supposedly are from God. Who are those
people that she's referring to, And I can guarantee you
it's going to be some false teacher like like Benny Hinton.
And then interesting that she said, you know, God work
up or is trying to get hold of her three times?
Who does who does that remind you of? In the
scripture Samuel right, always comparing themselves to these oblical figures.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Two things I noticed in the in the clip. First
of all, it doesn't really have much to do with
the the other the things about the dreams. She said,
I love the Holy Spirit when he raps worship with love,
as if she's receiving love from the Holy Spirit while worshiping. Also,

(46:13):
one one thing she said, one thing that she intimated
was that, you know, I didn't want to wake up.
You know, I was a mother. Sleep was precious to me.
I understand that, right. But as soon as she as
soon as she really you know, relented and as soon
as she gave up control, that was breakthrough, right. You know.

(46:36):
That's a common theme in these.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Guys, exactly exactly. They all say that this is the
breakthrough hour. And I, you know, I didn't play the
clip from Vlad that I hadn't I had another clip
that we just didn't we don't have time for. But
he he said that in his clip that this is this,
this whole time, this whole uh three am fourth watch,
and that's what they call it fourth Watch. This is

(46:58):
a time for breakthrough. This is this is when breakthrough
actually comes, you know, and you can and you can
hear these these messages from God. Anyway, let's move on.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
If there's as if there's as if there's a more
holy moment in the day than any that's the thing
of this thing, and it's actually mostly connected to the
witching hour, to the you know, so there is more activity,
more occult activity in those times in the day than
there is in any other time. You think of Halloween
and all these other high holy holidays of you know, occultism,

(47:33):
and that's when they're those those things are happening. So
to actually say that's more of a sanctified time of
the day is really bordering on occultism. To say that
that the time when the occult is active is where
we hear from God.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
And we're going to look at that too. We we've
got a we've got a i've got a an article
that I want to show. But before we get there,
let's take a look at the fact that it's not
three eight. The fourth watch. The three to six am
period is not just about hearing from God, but you
might actually get to see some angels as well.

Speaker 5 (48:10):
So chapter six, verse twelve through thirteen says, one day,
soon after Jesus went up on a mountain. He didn't
have tennis courts, so he went to a mountain tort
and he prayed to God all night at daybreak, So
he's up there all night, all the watches, and at
daybreak he called together. So I guess that would be
at six am. He called together all of his disciples

(48:31):
and chose twelve of them to be apostles. And so
Jesus understood the importance of praying through these different watches.
And I want to highlight, first of all, we've you know,
strategic time to hear from God first thing in the morning,
three to six am. That's that strategic time for the

(48:52):
fourth watch, first thing in the morning. But then it's
also a time of divine intervention, breakthrough, and angelic activity.
This is interesting, It is interesting.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (49:04):
So okay, so you think where are you guys getting
that from. Well, in Genesis chapter thirty two, verses twenty
four through twenty six, they said this left Jacob all
alone in the camp, and a man came and wrestled
with him. We know he's going back to see his brother.
He sent some of his family ahead, so he's all alone,
and a man came and wrestled with him until the

(49:27):
dawn began to break. When the man saw that he
would not win the match, he touched Jacob's hip and
wrenched it out of its socket. Then the man said,
let me go, for the dawn is breaking, but Jacob said,
I will not let you go unless you less.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
So there you go. You might actually have an angel
come into your bedroom that you can wrestle between you know,
three and six am, because Jacob did the same, The
same exact thing happened with him. Of course, you guys know,
and I mentioned to you this in the text in
one of the texts we were texting back and forth yesterday,

(50:05):
that Kenneth Copeland actually had Jesus come into his bedroom.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
I don't like.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
There's probably three, probably around the same time, with a
tray of cookies, and Jesus told commanded Kenneth Copeland to
take a cookie and eat a cookie. There was Jesus
at the foot of my bed, of course in the spirit,
you know, and he had this big tray of cookies.

(50:31):
I mean, there was such a big tray of cookies
it was armed.

Speaker 6 (50:34):
Mistray was this big, and usually somebody with a tray
of cookies is smiling.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
He wasn't founding, but he's stern. He said, have a cookie.
There was something significant, prophetically significant about that, I guess.
But the point is is that, you know, you can
do the same kinds of things and maybe have an
angel come into your room and you can communicate with him.

(51:04):
You don't have to wrestle him, you know, because you
don't want your hip knocked out aside, you know, you
don't want him to do that to you. For sure,
you're gonna need that for work. But you can talk
to them and carry on a conversation with him. Guys,
I'm not kidding. Psychics do this. They talk about angels.
I have literally watched videos from psychics that talk about

(51:26):
how they communicate with their angels at certain times of
the day and early morning hours and things like this.
There's nothing. This isn't this is mysticism. That's all this
stuff is anyway, thoughts.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, well, Satan masquerades as what an angel of an
angel of what?

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Yeah, so yeah, Richard, you go to say something, I'm.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Sure, Yeah, man, this is why exegesus exposition. Hermonutics are
so because this passage is sure where Jacob wrestled with
the Angel of the Lord is a theophany, It's a
pre incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ. And that is not

(52:13):
a normative happening for us. Folks, guys, we are not
to take that passage of scripture and say, well, then
I should wrestle with the angel and angels will come
into my room at three to six in the morning. No,
that is not normative. It's describing a description of what
happened in history. And this is think about what they're

(52:36):
actually saying. They're saying that you can have the same
experience that Jacob had with the Angel of the Lord,
the pre incarnate Christ appearing to him and giving him
a new name, making him and turning him into the
nation of Israel. That's crazy, guys like that. This is

(52:59):
a total misuse and a abuse of descriptions. No, yeah,
I'm gonna get out, get upset.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
No, no, wow, that's it. Yeah, And and notice what
she said too, she said, and I've got it written down.
Jesus understood the importance of praying through these watches. So Jesus,
Jesus had to take you know, all of this into
context as he's up there praying, okay, this this, this

(53:33):
is the fourth watch of the night. So God's activity
is going to the Father's activity is going to be
much more prominent. So now what should I do? I know,
I can walk on the water in front of my
disciples because during this time and I can. I can
now walk on the water. And and we we know

(53:53):
that that the whole purpose of Jesus walking on the
water was to show his disciples that he was God,
or that he is God, you know, that he is deity.
This is you know, it was. I hate how they
take text like this, these descriptive texts, and they make

(54:13):
it into prescriptive texts trying to show trying to say
that we can do these these same kinds of things,
you know. And just a side note, and you guys,
can you know, chime in on this, But it's just
funny to me how they are constantly talking about how
we're going to be doing greater works in Jesus, and
they never do. They don't do any they don't do

(54:36):
greater works, all right, Richard.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Go ahead, Okay, Yeah, It's just it's really astounding that
she would say that Jesus has to have that three
to six hour you know window to be more connected
to the Father God as if he is not connecting,
he needs that, He needs that three to six hour connection,
you know window to be more connected to the Father.

(54:57):
He is the second person to try you, Godhead. He
does not need three o'clock in the morning to be
more connected to his father. And then she actually says
that the apostles or he chose the apost that hour,
and that we would actually receive similar revelation at that
hour as Jesus received. I'm sorry, you're just not going

(55:19):
to receive a similar revelation as Jesus choosing his twelve apostles.
You're not going to Nothing is as important as Hey, seriously, man,
these guys just make it stuff.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Rick, Rick, you were gonna, you were gonna. I'm in
here too, I.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Think, Yeah, that's a that's just such a great point.
Always develing the authoriteen status of Christ as though he
needs the same little formulas that we need or that
they teach that we need. It's ridiculous. But Dan, just
on what you sit on greater works. If you look
at the scriptures from the history of beginning with Edam
and Eve in the Garden of Eden to the end

(56:00):
of the Age of the Apostles, and you look at
the miracles and you actually divide the miracles over that
span of what was it about four thousand years. Miracles
are very infrequent in scripture, and these events they are
talking about, as you know, this happens every second day,
was like sometimes years between these events these miracles in scripture,
there were sometimes years where God didn't speak and there

(56:24):
was no miracle. But they have like compacted this and
not giving the context and ignoring the period, the span
that these miracles took place over and expecting the ordinary
believer to experience these things almost on a daily basis.
You know, I'm sorry to say, but you know, we

(56:44):
are not. The reason why there's so many problems is
that these people do not have the spirit of God
because they're not saved. That's my opinion. That's why there's
so many discrepancies and nonsense going on to them. They
are not Christians. And I know that might be offensive
to some people hearing that, but that's a simple truth
because their fruits are they and one of the fruits

(57:05):
of somebody who should be an elder or teaches that
they can rockly divide the would have God, and these
people never do.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
The reason why they would say that Jesus, you know,
had to tune in to the Father is because he
does everything he does now or then, he did everything
as a man with the power of the Holy Spirit.
You know, it's this whole canotic stuff. You know that Jesus,
Jesus at his baptism received the Holy Spirit and he

(57:34):
did that as an example for us. So now every miracle,
everything he did, he did by the power of the
Holy Spirit. So Richard, that's that's how they would come
back that, I think, which is just not true. It
just isn't he He his natures work together, the divine,
the divine nature and human nature work together in tandem

(57:56):
with the one person Christ, and that is that is
how that works. So yeah, it's just that that it's
just bad teaching. And you're right, Rick, you know, these
people Juke talks about people like these guys being void
of the spirit, you know, and if you're void of
the spirit, then you're not a Christian. You don't have

(58:16):
a you don't have a Holy Spirit, you don't you're
not a Christian. So so folks, we had a we
had another issue with I'm sorry about all the video
and audio issues here, but we're going to try to continue. Richard,
you were talking about the one of the councils I'm
gonna put you on.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Yeah. So the Council of Nicea, the Council of Calcidon
describe and real detail, and those are simple. I mean,
I would really recommend every listener go read those councils.
They're real short, they're real compact. They described the nature
of Christ in minute detail, and that and anybody who
diminishes the nature of Christ by saying that Jesus had

(58:53):
to tune into the Father connect with the Father, it's
anti trinitarian one thing. First of all, because the triun
God here does to tune into each other. They are
already in tune with each other. Yeah, and uh, you know.
And and then to diminish Christ by saying that he

(59:15):
had to tune into God in some way or another
means that he wasn't divine in some way. For God
to not know the mind of God is diminishing his nature.
And then the second thing I want to say about
what they're what these guys are talking about altogether is
I don't think the Word of God is enough for them. Really,
what is really what it comes down to. They do

(59:36):
not believe that the that the that the Word of
God is sufficient for all of life and faith. They
don't believe it because they actually even say, you know,
I wanted I had the Word of God in all,
kind of like Sarah Young you mentioned, I think Dan,
I had the Word of God in all, but it
wasn't enough. I wanted more. I wanted more and more
and more and more and more. Lord. You know they

(59:57):
say that all the time in this moment anyways, But
the Word of God is not their full and final authority.
It's not sufficient for life and faith for them. They
don't believe in the sufficiency of the Word of God.
They need more, they need the three am.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Yeah, they would say they do. I've heard them, you know,
Wayne Grutem and Sam Storms and guys like that, they
would say they do. And even even the vlad Sabchuks
and the Bevier's they would say they believe in the
sufficiency of Scripture. But when it you're right, when it
comes down to it, when when you when you take

(01:00:32):
it to it's logical point, you know endpoint, they don't.
How can you if you if you are like Lisa said,
if you're you know, I love scripture, but I want
to hear God for myself, or like Sarah Jung saying
the same thing, how can you say that scripture is sufficient?
It's not just in that just in that one comment,

(01:00:55):
you're showing that scripture isn't sufficient anyway, we're talking about
the Witching Hour. This is the this is the final,
very interesting thing. So we see the angels were involved
here in that watch right. Also what's really crazy is
that witches and warlocks actually that's a big hour for them.

(01:01:15):
They actually call it the Witching Hour? Did you which
one the fourth watch?

Speaker 7 (01:01:20):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
Wow, if I'm not mistaken, I've got it somewhere. Here's
the thing.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
Anything that God does, the enemy twists, Oh absolutely, like divination,
he twists, He twists the divine, He perverts it. And
so it's not wrong for us to understand the timing
because they have twisted it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:01:44):
It's it's like, you know, you hear all this stuff
about people saying I'm going to manifest something, Well, we
understand for this purpose was the Son of God manifests
to destroy the works of the evil one. So it's
not about me being the focus. It's about setting captives free.
It's about preaching the gospel. It's about healing the sick,
about raising the dead, whether that is you know, speaking

(01:02:04):
people from a place of death to life. It's just
crazy but manifestation. The way the New Age talks about
is I'm the focus. The way Jesus talks about is
other focus.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Yeah. Wrong, because their whole, their whole premise or the whole,
their whole thinking is, Oh, I'm the focus. It's it's me.
Look what God is doing through me. You see that.
Use me as an example and you can do the
same thing as I'm doing. And if you're not well,
you just need to you just need to try harder,

(01:02:35):
or you need to be more in tune, or there's
some kind of sin in your life, or there's something
happening in your life. But use me as an example.
So they're talking about the witching hour here. Any of
you guys before we look at this article, any of
you guys, Oh, I know what I wanted to say, Rick,
You're I think you would you would?

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Have you?

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
Have you heard that from Bethel? That kind of reasoning that, well,
you know God, you know, the the enemy, he tries
to he twists what God says. So we can you know,
the New Age and and and in the the occult
stuff they've just how did how did they go? The

(01:03:20):
New Age stuff they've twist, they've twisted, right, So it's
okay for us to redeem that and to bring that
back into you know, a into a more scriptural biblical practice.
Have you heard that before?

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Yeah, that's that's actually the premise of the book, that
book that they all contributed, the Physics of Heaven, and
you had Benny Johnson not a chapter, Bill Johnson, Gudy Franklin,
and the whole idea was we need to take back
what the New Age has stolen. And so that's why
they're going to vibrations and quantum physics and frequencies. So

(01:03:58):
that's such a common argument, you know. So it's almost
like in the in the Christian music industry, this take
back rock and roll, because you know, rock and roll
is just a counterfeat of what we should be doing.
So yeah, you're right, it's it's it's you know, and
not everything the devil does is a counter offeat, is it?

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Yeah, exactly, Richard, I've got anything.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Yeah. The Physics of Heaven. The purpose of the book says,
sole purpose is to share what we have discovered so
you can go on your own journey of discovery with
God into the realms of sound, light, energy, vibration, quantum physics.
Why because I believe that the Lord has been showing
both of us is the absolute truth that will help

(01:04:44):
us bring God's kindly earth. The Lord is ready to
use sound light energy in ways we never dreamed, but
we first need to have foundational understandings. And then they
do go on to say a has counterfeited the true
Christian experience and we need to take it back. The

(01:05:05):
Church needs to take it back. This book is the
craziest book that wants to try to call itself Christian.
The Physics of Heaven. It's a wow. It's great though
approved book just by the way, so we're clear on
what it is. Bethel Seal of approval on the back,
even though they've taken it out of their bookstore because
Mike Winger did a big, long expose a on it.

(01:05:26):
They took it out of their bookstore. But it is Yeah,
I mean Bill Johnson wrote a chapter Chris Falton wrote
the forward, and other Bethel authors I think one time
Pop Jones. His chapter says that God's breath, God's presence
smells like apples. So if you weren't aware of that, Dan,

(01:05:47):
so yeah, wow, hey, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
All right, so let's let I want to move over
to this article here because there is an article. Let
me see if I can get it up here on
my end. Okay, So this is called Can you guys
see this? Okay, yeah, it's lagging pretty good. Okay, what
does it mean if you wake up at three am? Now?

(01:06:15):
This comes from a site called Parade. This is parade
dot com. And I want to just I want to
highlight a couple of things in this article, just to
kind of show you, you know, the folks, you guys
and the folks some similarities. I want to read this
section right here, and this is what it says. If
you keep waking up at three am without an alarm,

(01:06:37):
there might be more to it than bad sleep habits.
Sleep experts and spiritual healers alike say these middle of
the night wake ups could actually be the universe trying
to get your attention. So there's a similar God's trying
to get your attention right. According to these guys we
listen to, the early morning hours are a time that's

(01:07:02):
when our world in the spirit world gets closer together
and spiritual traditions and healing practices. Waking up in these
hours might be a message to you about spiritual growth
or shifting energy, or even a message from the divine,
whether they happen on a regular basis or only rarely.

(01:07:25):
Think of it as a cosmic phone call you didn't expect.
All right, now, I wanted to show you that because
I want to show you who they're going to be
talking about here. Now, look at this paragraph here, waking
up at three am usually means something spiritualist happening. Soulless.
This guy soulless is a psychic soulas a psychic who's

(01:07:45):
been doing spiritual healing for over twenty four four years
calls it the witching hour or spiritual veil hour, basically
the time when the wall between our world and spirit
world gets really thin. Now, what's really interesting is what
they talk about here, And let's see if I can
find it here. It is, well, I passed it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
There.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
It is biblical meaning, biblical meaning of waking up at
three am, so even I can get it to do
its thing here, So it's not going to Yeah, boy,
I tell you delayed, delayed. Can you see it the
biblical Yeah, okay, biblical meaning, so not highlighted there, it is. Yeah,

(01:08:31):
this is what it says. In Christianity, the story of
Jesus has a deep connection to three am. Biblically, three
am is symbolically linked to Jesus' time will, betrayal and
suffering in the early hours, explains Solace. That's the psychic
that's that's talking here. Okay, waking up at three am
can hold deep biblical significance. Adam agrees. It is often

(01:08:55):
seen as a time when the spiritual realm is especially
active and God may be calling you into prayer. It's,
like Vlad Sabchuk says, into reflection or deeper spiritual connection. Basically,
God could be trying to get your attention. So yeah,

(01:09:17):
it's very similar to what these guys are saying. Now.
They would say, well, you know, ours is redeemed because Christ,
you know, what we do has been redeemed because Christ's
death on the cross is death beryl and resurrection has
redeemed everything. And so it's it's not it's not a
problem for us, but it is a problem because the

(01:09:39):
new agers and psychics are doing the same exact thing.
And as you said, Richard, or was it Rick, Satan
appears as an angel of light. He's not gonna he's
not gonna. Yeah, that's the thing. Well, I would know
it's the devil. Well, the Devil's not gonna come as
an angel and say, excuse me. I'm just gonna let
you know real quick before we get started here, I'm
a demon. And but you know, just to let you

(01:10:02):
know that it's gonna he's gonna say he's an angel
of what he's going to It's just so dangerous, so
so very very dangerous, you know. So any uh any
any thoughts, guys?

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Yeah, yeah, I think I think. I think angels and
demons apparently hate the Watch Out between three a m.
To six am, because that's the only time they apparently
do anything, you know, And what do they do, you know,
flip between when it's you know, when it's when it's

(01:10:38):
your daytime, then it's my evening time. So I do
the angels leave the USA or scream over to South Africa?
You know, just imagine the spirture on if you could see,
you're just the angels and demons scurrying during the daytime
to get to be able to do their job during
the even It's absolutely absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
It is. And and here's this, and here's the sad part.
Jen Jensen Franklin says that angels are unemployed, and so
you know, uh, what he's gonna do with this storage angels.
So now you've got you've got some of these angels
going to the United States, some of them going to Germany,
someone going to South Africa. You know, they're going everywhere
to try to get the job done. But that you know,

(01:11:19):
it's it's really we joke about this, but it really
is extremely dangerous to even be involved in this kind
of thinking because us of all, like we said in
the beginning, God doesn't have a timetable where he's more active,
you know, or or where he's going to be able

(01:11:40):
to speak to you more clearly, it's there's there's nothing
like that in scripture. The fact of the matter is
is that God is omni present, He's everywhere, and if
he wants to speak to you in an audible voice,
he's not gonna have any problem getting through to you.
And you know, it's just it's just such like like

(01:12:04):
you were saying, Rick, it is such a burden to
try to just constantly have to sift through all of
the gobblygook just to find out if you're listening, if
you're hearing from God.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
Anyway, this is this is a different gospel. Yeah, yeah,
I've got I've got a thought here. If y'all can hear,
this is a different gospel. And I'll tell you why
because she actually, I think it's Lisa Beavie at the
last clip says that you know, connects the witching hour
and everything that we're hearing to destroy the works of

(01:12:38):
the devil, right, that we're meant to do that, except
that First John three eight does not. And they're talking
about occultism. They're trying to you know, we we need
to get up at three to six a m. So
we can destroy the works of the devil, as if
occultism and all these things were his work.

Speaker 4 (01:12:54):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
First John three to eight. It actually says it directly
in the context, whoever makes a practice of sinning is
of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from
the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared, was
to destroy the works of the devil. What did Jesus
come to do to destroy the works of the devil? What
are the works of the devil? Sin? So, folks, if

(01:13:19):
anybody in this movement claims that you have to cast
out demons and do all this other semi occult stuff,
they are teaching to you a false gospel. Because the
gospel of Jesus Christ is that Jesus appeared, the Son
of God appeared to destroy the works of the devil.
What are his works? Sin? If you are not destroying

(01:13:40):
sin and killing sin, then you are engaged in a
false gospel.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
What do we have here? I mean, if you look
at the underlying philosophy, it's yet another thing that the
poor miscarded, biblically ignorant, false convent or you really believe it,
you know, mostly it's false. Unfortunately, would probably fall for
the stuff. But the problem is it's another thing they
have to do. Okay, so they've already taught. They got
to fast, they've got to pray, they've got to pleed

(01:14:08):
the blood of Jesus, they've got to bind a generational curse.
They've got to tune into the right frequency. They've got
to tie at least ten percent or God won't prosper them.
They've got to find out their prophetic personality to be
able to give accurate words of knowledge. And now they
have to wake up at three am on top of everything.
Otherwise they're going to miss out on business plans or
this and that. It's a lot of rubbish. It's really
a form of divination. But here's the thing, like I

(01:14:30):
said initially, that puts such a burden on people. And
what it does is, this is a thief that comes
and steals from the ordinary means of grace, which are
not that ordinary, they're supernatural. But it's studying the scriptures,
it's praying, it's baptism, it's the word of God performing
a workiness. It's just chatting from the ordained means that

(01:14:52):
God has given every believer that he has access to.
Twenty four to seven. God has provided everything we need,
and there's not a special time where you can access
that thing that's going to be more, you know, more
effective than the others. So I would say, actually, this
is as you guys say, it's another gospel. It's divination.

(01:15:13):
It's a cultic and the fact that they have to
bring Jesus down to our level as well, as Richard
so eloquently explained, is absolutely despicable. You need to mark
an avoid and fee from any of these people who
are talking about this. Three are rubbish. Three a m rubbish.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Rick.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
I'd yeah, I'd like to piggyback on that idea there, Rick,
especially about the other gospels we have who has gone
to the Us on our behalf to destroy the works
of the devil, the sin that so easily entangles us.
And on the cross the temple curtain was torn and
top from top to bottom into we now have access

(01:15:54):
to God freely. The author of Hebrews says, we can
find grace in our time of need. Where you can
approach the Throne of grace, and there we will find
our help in our time of need. You don't need
a special three out three am thing. You don't need
a special anointing. You don't need a special activation. You
don't need this or that or the other thing in

(01:16:15):
this movement tries to sell you it's a works gospel.
You need to enter into the Holy of Place, buy
the blood of Christ on your behalf, and you will
be set free. You will receive help and mercy and
grace in your time of need. Here, do not buy
into these silly concoctions. For three am, whatever you have,

(01:16:37):
all you need, you have full access to God through
Jesus Christ, our Savior.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
Amen. Amen. And I want to just jump and give
my final thought here, and that is gonna be like
you were piggybacking on Rick. I'm gonna piggyback on Richard.
It's all three It's all free. There's nothing you have
to do for any of it. It's already been done

(01:17:05):
for you. Christ came and did it all, all of
the work, all of the I think about what Jesus said.
Jesus had come to me, all you who are weary
and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my
yoke upon you and learn for me, for I am

(01:17:26):
gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest
for your souls. How are these guys given you are
given any of their people rest? Are they pointing them
to Jesus? Who is their rest? Who has done all
of the works that God requires. God requires you to
be one hundred percent perfect. Well, you can't be. And

(01:17:48):
Christ was one hundred percent perfect for you as your substitute,
and that's given to you for free. It's already done.
It's already been done two thousand years ago at the Cross.
It was already done. And all you do is you
reach out with those hands of faith and you take
with yours because you were there, your sin was there
on the cross. This is just such a burden to people.

(01:18:08):
And uh and I and I think that's that's really
what what it boils down to, is the heavy loads.
So folks, uh, market avoid these teachers, Rick Richard, this
has been a really really good discussion, minus the audio
and video issues that we had. Hopefully our next episode

(01:18:30):
will be much better. I don't know, could be weather.
I haven't experienced this, uh, you know, this bad of
a Maybe maybe maybe we need a breakthrough with our
internet here.

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
Maybe it was because maybe it was because there was
an illegal balding, illegal balding on this lovey or something
like that. Yeah, Uh, I seem to seem to think that,
uh that I heard you said there was a piggyback
as well. You're we all piggybacked on each other so free.

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
That's kind of scared when you think about it. It's
just not a very good picture for me to have
in my brain here as we get ready to leave.
But anyway, yeah, guys, I really really appreciate it. I
really do. And I think this is going to be
a really good podcast, and folks, we plan to do more.
I think we were talking about maybe a once a
month episode right now and seeing if we can't get together.

(01:19:23):
But yeah, so, folks, hopefully this has been helpful to
you and you're going to benefit from us. I know
you will. Guys, thanks so much.