Mark and Avoid the Beveres

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But when you'll get teachers, false teachers, they pervert teaching.
You know, the Holy Spirit, he is the only one
of the Godhead that is actually here on this earth.
Do you understand that you have a promise of God
if you honor your parents, that you can look at
cancer and say, get out of this household. I have
honored my parents, I will live long and I will
be successful.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Toga love it.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
The question is are we believing lies? Yeah? I mean
that is a question I want everybody to stop and
think about, are you believing a lie? When I started
in church back in the early eighties, I mean, we
were watching blind people's walk out hole. We had wall
filled with crutches and canes and wheelchairs. We literally had

(00:41):
Jesus appear in the service, four thousand people in the building.
When he did left an imprint of his face on
the wall ten feet tall, eight feet wide. I mean,
I remember ambulances pulling up to our church in front
of four thousand people and people have less than twenty
four hours left to live. The paramedics wheel him down
and the guy gets healed so powerfully that he pushes
is gurney out while the parametics set there with their

(01:03):
jaws down and the people are going crazy and screaming
the roof down.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
The biggest thing and the most important thing that you
can do is go to the Bible. You can take
what people are saying and be like, Okay, that's a
great argument, that's a great understanding of that. But if
you don't know what the Bible says, if you don't
looking at the different scriptures that it's talking about that
specific topic through throughout the different chapters of the Bible,
then you're just gonna be swayed by whatever anyone else says.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
So often the Protestant Church divides off of doctrine. And
that's why I love the Barean Christians. The Brians they
heard the Apostle Paul speak. I mean, come on, can
you imagine if the Apostle Paul was like speaking in Dallas,
Texas next week, they would have to rent out Texas
Stadium where the Cowboys play, and then do screens everywhere

(01:51):
for all the people that would come and listen. Yet,
the Brians were wise, and that the fact that they
look through the scriptures. They searched diligently through the scriptures
to see if what Paul was saying was true. I
would encourage everybody in this podcast, all right, you're going
to start coming and maybe listening because you're enjoying walking
through a book of the Bible like this. Hey, you
need to search out what Arden and I are saying.
So notice the Lord Jesus himself gives the leaders in

(02:14):
the church the fivefold ministry, and Jesus said, when you
receive them, you're receiving me. I went to a church recently.
They blew me away. We got off our plane, we
were walking out, and I was with my assistants and
there were four guys there with tuxedos and they had
two white limousines picked me up. But I looked at
the way that they received me as a man sent

(02:34):
from Heaven. God forbid we ever mislead somebody because we're
preaching lies.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
Welcome to the Long for Truth Podcast. I'm Robin Long.
Join my husband Dan and I as we explore the
roots of the early Pentecostal and Charismatic movements and we
shine a light on false doctrines and false teachers in
the modern church. Let's get started.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Hello, everyone, welcome to Along for Truth. My name is
Daniel Along. Today we are going to be talking about
John and Lisa Bevie. Now, we have not done a
video on this channel about the Beviers, but today we
are going to do one. Because these guys are dangerous

(03:19):
false teachers. They need to be marked and avoided. Now
I'm not going to be doing this video by myself.
I have got a guest joining me who has done
two videos on the Bevier's and so I have brought
Rick Becker with me. Rick Becker is the curator of
the Famine in the Land website and the Famine on

(03:44):
the Land Facebook page. He also has a YouTube channel,
and I'll put links to everywhere you can find Rick
on or in the description. So Rick, thank you so
much for joining me today. We are going to have
a really important discussion because, let me tell you, I
knew that the Beaviers were false teachers, but I did

(04:05):
not realize just how bad they were until I started
diving into their teaching.

Speaker 6 (04:13):
Daniel, I'm really glad you're doing it because they are
couple that often fly under the radar, and you know,
sort of I've been thinking of giving the false teachers
that the sheep skin rating. So for example, that Joel
Ostein Joel Ostein doesn't have a good sheep skin. He'd
probably be a nod out of ten. Chris Vedaton maybe
a one or two out of ten. But the Beavias

(04:34):
are up reaching seven eight. And I think part of
the problem is that they do have some good material
and they seem to be hot on sin in some instances,
and that's what sort of draws people in. So it's
almost like the curse of the are to the truth,
the more dangerous they can be, and that's the case
of the Viers.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, if you type in John BeVier or John Elisa
Bavier in YouTube, their video titles are kind of attractive. Hey,
you know, God wants you to be holy, you know
they and even with like their podcast where he's sitting
down with his son and his wife. In those podcasts,
they're talking about some pretty biblical things. You almost got to,

(05:15):
you know, go beneath the surface to really see some
of the harmful teaching. And that's what both you and
I have done. So we've got some clips. One of
the things that I've noticed, and I'm sure you've noticed
the same thing, and I'll get your take on this,
is that the well, this is one of the first
things I noticed is that John Beavie loves to talk

(05:37):
about himself. I mean, would you agree.

Speaker 6 (05:41):
Yeah, definitely. That's a characteristic of most of his false teachers,
isn't it. They? You know, under that veneer gardiness is
the food learnt narcissist and inevitably it comes out at
some point, and that's you know, speaking about themselves and
their stories and a God spoken to them in.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
One of the things he also likes to do is
he likes to talk about how much the Holy Spirit
in him, you know, converse, he's talking about how much,
you know, the Lord talks to him all the time.
And so I made a compilation of clips and it's
a it's a pretty long it's a pretty long clip,

(06:18):
A bunch of clips into one, and these are just
some of the videos that I've watched. I can guarantee
you if you go into any place where he is preaching.
I didn't see a lot of this in his podcast,
but when he's preaching, when he's when he's standing up
in front of an audience, he loves to talk about
how the Holy Spirit spoke to him. And I can

(06:39):
tell you you'd probably go to any of those services that
you find on YouTube and just go into the transcript
and just type in Holy Spirit and you're gonna see
him saying that multiple times. So, Rick, I'm gonna play
this clip and then I'm gonna get your take on it. Okay, yeah, sure,
any one.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
I'm out praying. It's early in the morning. I was
at a construction site. It's like five thirty in the morning,
and the Holy Spirit spoke and said, Son, I want
you to write. I laughed. I said, ah Lord, you
got so many of us kids, and now you're getting
as an exeb with one another. And the Holy Spirit said, Son,
don't throw it away. I said, God, nobody should ever

(07:17):
hear that message. Ever, I'm throwing it away. Son, don't
throw it away, I said, God, that could be used
against me someday. Why do you want me to keep this,
he said, because I always want you to know how
bad you are without me. One way. I emprayer and

(07:38):
the Holy Spirit speaks to me and he said, Son,
you know how God says, my ways are not your ways.
My thoughts are not your thoughts. He said. He said, Son,
I am not socialistic in the way I think. And
the Holy Spirit said, go read the parable The towns
and I woke up this morning. I was like, gosh,
I'd love to preach on that and love. And the

(07:58):
Holy Spirit is like, no, you're here at this conference
because of what I've given you, and that's the new
book and it's not even out yet. I mean literally,
I finally just said I don't like this book. I
don't want to write it. And the Holy Spirit said, son,
if you don't write it, I'm gonna give it to
somebody else, you know. And I'm thinking about all these
positive messages and the Holy Spirit just goes uh uh.

(08:22):
And I'm walking on the beach and the Holy Spirit
said this to me. He said, my church has majored
on the peripherals of love, not the core definition of
what love is. I went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa what?
So one day I'm praying and the Holy Spirit whispers
to me, he goes, people in this church say you're

(08:43):
a very loving man, don't they? And so I cautiously said, yeah,
that's what people are saying. And then he said this
to me. He said, do you know why you tell
people only positive things? Do you want to know why
you'll even lie sometimes about somebody to make them feel good.
You think it's love. It's not love. He said. The

(09:05):
reason you do this is because you fear their rejection.
One day, I'm reading this I was younger in ministry,
and the Holy Spirit said, what would you have done?
John is the wealthiest man in Nashville on the streets.
Came running up, sliding to his knees, grabbing you and

(09:25):
say what do I do to get saved? What would
you have done? And I'm going to tell you something.
This past month of my life has just been really,
really amazing. It started about a month ago. I was
on a fast and the Holy Spirit spoke to me
and said, read the Book of Acts. Now, the ironic
part of this is the last time I went on
extended fast, the Holy Spirit said, read the Book of Acts.
And and I'm like, oh God, this is wonderful. Right.

(09:47):
So last year or three minutes they lifts and Lord said,
whispers in my heart, said lead him in a prayer repentance.
So I let him in a prayer repentance. All of
a sudden, now here comes another wave of his presence
even stronger. Now people are weeping right all over the place.
You can hear. It's wonderful right last about three minutes
lips and the Holy Spirit whispered to me, said, I'm
coming one more time tonight. And the only way I

(10:08):
know how to describe this, and I can never describe this,
but I'm gonna try, is that you're at the end
of the runway at DFW and a seven thirty seven
takes off right in front of you. That kind of
a violent wind came blowing into that auditorium. Next morning,
I'm in prayer my Malaysian hotel, and the Holy Spirit
just speaks to me and said, read Psalm nineteen. I

(10:28):
have no idea what Psalm nineteen said. And the Holy
Spirit said to me, he said, Son Lucifer, lad worship
right at my throne. He didn't fear me. He didn't
endure forever. He said. A third of the angels were
around my throne. They didn't fear me. They didn't endure forever.

(10:53):
He said. Adam and Eve walked in my presence. They
didn't fear me. They didn't endure in the garden forever.
He said. Every every single being that surrounds my throne
throughout eternity will have been tested in the fear of
the Lord. And I said, God, what do I do?

(11:15):
And the Holy Spirit said, fire him. But I believe
with all my heart because in nineteen ninety the early nineties,
God spoke to me and he said, the next major
move of my spirit on the earth. See, we've had
the Browns Bill, we've had the pockets, we haven't had
one that's really covered the whole country, but we're about to.

(11:36):
And God spoke to me in nineteen ninety and he said,
the next one that comes that covers the earth is
going to be a move of the Holy fear of God.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Okay, Rick, I want to get your impression. What did
you think about that clip?

Speaker 6 (11:53):
Well, it's me. You don't tell people when you're FoST
you know, I keep that between yourself and God. That's
just party his whole narcissistic putting his good works out there.
But you know, he seems to have more conversations, have
had more conversations with God than all the biblical characterists combined.
And I think you know this sort of you know,

(12:16):
when you come out of the whole, you know, those
people come out of the naar and whatever, they really
have to understand that what they often thought will perceive
to be God speaking or the Holy Spirit whispering to
them is just their own thoughts, and in some cases
they're not even bad thoughts, they're good and sanctified thoughts.
But this is one of the ploys that these guys use,

(12:37):
and that is by claiming to have heard directly direct
revelation from God or the Holy Spirit, they've automatically elevated
themselves above the ordinary Christian so to speak, and this
puts them in a prime position to not only manipulate
their followers, but to sell their materials. So it's sort of,
you know, they've climb to the top of the feud

(12:57):
chain by claiming to have there's such an intimate relationship
with God where he speaks to John Vivie. As you said, Daniel,
you know, point out God is on the Holy Spirit.
He's always speaking to John Vivia explaining the scriptures to him,
telling him that they, you know, God needs him to
write this book or whatever. So it's a it's already
a boastful claim, and unfortunately that gives the wrong perception

(13:20):
of what the normal Christian life should be. So a
lot of Christians fall into condemnation because well, I'm not
hearing from God like John Vivie, what's wrong with me?
And that starts a whole you know, it opens up
a real rabbit trail, a rabbit trail where you can
just get caught up in so much deception and mystical
ways to learn to hear from God. It's really a

(13:42):
tragic story actually, you.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Know, you're talking about the trap of you know, hearing
from a leader that says, hey, you know, I hear
from God, and then you thinking to yourself, well, I'm
not hearing like that. So I'm watching a documentary right
now on this Mormon cult from back in the nineties,
and it's a fundamentalist Mormon cult, you know, polygamous Mormon cult.

(14:08):
And the leader of this cult, one of the ways
he kept them in bondage, kept them connected to himself,
was by claiming that he was hearing the very words
of God and they needed his voice, they needed to
hear what he had to say, and he kept the

(14:30):
people in fear. And so that what John Vivier doing.
And I'm gonna say John Vivier is a cult leader,
But what I'm i am saying is those are cult
like tactics. They keep their people. It allows or it
causes I should say, there are people to elevate the

(14:51):
prophet or the leader or the preacher to such a
high level that, you know, the Bible kind of becomes
the secondary thing and the prophets of voice becomes primary,
you know. So it's just it's just a shame. And
it just reminds me of that. Also, like you were
talking about, he seems to hear from God a lot

(15:12):
in prayer, and he talks a lot about that. He
talks a lot about his fast, and he talks a
lot about his prayer time and how God speaks to
him in prayer time, and it just is not becoming
of a very godly leader, you know.

Speaker 6 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah, because so at the end of the day,
he's pointing to himself the whole time instead of pointing
to Christ pacally, so.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Exactly. And so now comes the part about prophecy, because
when I was watching one of his videos, he was
at Bethel Church and reading. He was speaking at a
conference there, Open Heaven's Conference is what it was, back
in twenty seventeen, so it was an older one. But

(15:57):
he near the end of that video started he mentioned
it sounded to me like he was calling himself a
prophet so I want to play this clip and then
we'll talk about it. I'll get your take on it.
So check this out.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Now. You ever hear somebody say, now, don't sugarcoat it. Shoot,
I say, sugarcoated as much as you can. Why because
the sugar diminuced the potency of the medicine. No speakes
it easier to swallow. That's why I look at my
team and they're all comedics, and I say, guys, I

(16:33):
realize what God's put on my life. I would love
to be the Bill Johnson who just speaks about the
goodness of God, because I love that and I really
really really really really really believe he's a good daddy.
But you have to understand there's something different that God

(16:54):
put on my life to serve as church. I mean,
I had a friend look at me and said, you
you prophet, And he started laughing and he said, if
you're a prophet, I'll be a pastor. And he was
the guy that two hundred people went to his his
his Sunday school class, and twenty went to mine because
he spoke, he spoke boldly, right, he ended up being
a pastor for years.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
All right, So right there near the end he talked
about a guy telling him, what, you're a prophet. If
you're a prophet, I'm going to be a pastor. And
the guy ends up being a pastor. So to me,
that sounds like that prophetic fulfillment there. Now he didn't
he didn't talk any more about this at all. So
he that's the only time I have ever heard him

(17:42):
claim prophetic status. But here's the thing, Rick, he he's always,
as we saw in the very big in the first clip,
talking to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit talking to him,
giving him direct revelation, giving him direct revelation for the church.
Because the Holy Spirit is giving him words to write

(18:03):
for his books. And he makes that very clear. Both
him and his wife talk about how important their books
are and how God is saying I need you to
write these books and things like that.

Speaker 6 (18:14):
Yeah, definitely, I don't think he's meaning it in the
sense of, you know, the typical prophet in Charasmania or
the New Epistotic Reformation, somebody goes and gives words of knowledge,
or you know, did you live at this address or way,
have you've got a kitten called Fluffy? That he's not
talking about that. He's actually talking about something far more
important a prophet who really has from God and speaks

(18:36):
from God revelations for the whole body of Christ. Because
that's one of the other things they do. They don't say,
you know, this is a prophetic word for this church.
Whatever they claim to have. He claims to have information
that is vital to the whole body of Christ. So
that's would put him up in the Old Testament on
par with Moses. So he sees himself as that sort

(18:59):
of figure I think in the church, and once again
it just innovates his status and gives him an authoritative
voice when he speaks.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah. Absolutely, I've got a clip I want to play
right now where he talks about the importance of one
of his books. Watch this cliptul.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Kryptonite' is real. But we'll get to that in a moment,
all right. In prayer, as I was laboring over this message,
and I'm going to tell you this right now, I
wanted to stop writing this book six times. I'm not kidding,
I mean literally. I finally just said I don't like
this book. I don't want to write it, and the
Holy Spirit said, son, if you don't write it, I'm
gonna give it to somebody else, because this contains keys

(19:40):
to releasing the move of God. And you know, I
thought how appropriate open heavens. Kryptonite is what closes heavens.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
This book Kryptonite, which I know you've done, you know,
some work on the Bevier's and I think you've done
some slides, and you've talked about his book Kryptonite in
your first video exposing both the Bevie's. You did too.
You did the one on the Bevie's as a whole,

(20:06):
and then you did the one on his book under cover.
But so Kryptonite, his book Rick is so important. God
needed him to do it. God needed him to write
that book.

Speaker 6 (20:21):
And if you read the book, you'll see that he
really doesn't understand the basics that any Bible teacher should.
He makes no distinction between the law and the Gospel,
and he hijacks so many of the Old Testament texts.
And that's the thing, Daniel, what people don't understand is
that he's basically a prosperity Gospel teacher. And his whole

(20:44):
sort of thing in killing Kryptonite is we've got to
deal with sin, etc. And that your sins, your individual sins,
can effective body of Christ, which is true. But then
he draws all of his examples, and you'll find it
in a lot of his teaching, he always reverts back
to the Old Testament because he's still operating in that
blessing and curses thing. And so God would not tend

(21:06):
to write a run of heresy, which which the book
is is just it's just a hot mess of gobbled
nonsense and full of what God told him this would
mean or what that means. So now God didn't tend
to write that book at all.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
I agree, I agree, you know, Rick, one of the
things that I've talked about with Robin is that these
guys love to use Old Testament versus when it suits them.
They'll use the head, not the tail. They'll use all
the Old Testament prosperity verses to to validate their lavish
lifestyles and their teachings. But when it comes to verses

(21:45):
that warn against false prophecy, you know, they are just
like there that doesn't apply to us today, because New
Testament prophecy is you know, not as good, not as not,
not like Old Testament prophecy. It's like Justin Peters said,
he said, everything in the New Testament is better than

(22:05):
the Old Testament everything you you know, except for prophecy.
Prophecy is the one that's not better. So it's like,
you know, so, yeah, they use these Old Testament passages
when it suits them. But let's talk about there we
were mentioning, you know, the prosperity. We might as well
talk now a little bit about their financial status or

(22:26):
at least, you know what the amount of money that
they bring in, which of course they're going to they're
going to get speaker fees. And you and I were
talking earlier, and there's no way to find out exactly
how much of a speaker fee that these guys get.
But let me just say this, folks, I know for

(22:50):
a fact it is a lot thousands of dollars and
I mean thousands of dollars they get for going to
the speaking engagement. So you got the money there that's
made from the speaking engagements. Because he's not a pastor,
although correct me if I'm wrong, Rick, but his ministry

(23:12):
Messenger International is you know, it's it's registered as a church, okay,
And that's because they stopped filing nine nineties back in
I think twenty seventeen was the last time they filed
a nine ninety. So it's just uh yeah, it's and

(23:34):
and when you don't, when you when the reason why, folks,
you your nonprofit ministry becomes or I don't even know
if it was a nonprofit ministry then, but the reason
why you register your ministry as a church is so
that you don't have to file a nine ninety, you know,
because church if your church status, you don't have to
file him. That way, you don't have to be transparent,

(23:57):
you know, you don't have to. People can't look at
what you're bringing in. And I was talking to Barry
Bowen of the Trinity Foundation this week about the Beavers,
and they have their ministry has brought in millions and
I've got some I've got some pictures here because they
they actually they actually have had several properties worth millions

(24:22):
of dollars. Here, let me just put that up on
the screen. You can see the the first two pictures
there at the top that's their current home that's worth
over two million. And then the bottom two pictures there
is their beach house in Florida and that's worth about
four million. Now they do share that with I think

(24:46):
you know, they share that with someone else but it's
still a four million dollar it's still a four million
dollar home. So I mean you can see there that
you know, it's just uh, you can't you can't deny
that these guys are making a ton of money off

(25:06):
of this this ministry. So any anything you want to
add to that.

Speaker 6 (25:12):
Well, yeah, just regarding their speaking fees, I looked up
you know, there's some third party platforms through that you
can book them to speak at your church conference or whatever.
And both the sites that I look at the average purpose.
So if you want to book John or Lisa Bevere
for a single service whatever, it's between ten and twenty

(25:32):
thousand US dollars. Wow. Yeah, So and then this is interesting.
So on on their own website, I'm looking at it now.
Messenger International. Obviously, you know we couldn't get a quote
because we'd have to pretend to be a church or something.
But it's stipulated here that they expect you to cover
the travel expenses. And then this is interesting. But their request,

(25:56):
John or Lisa, this is what you have to do
for them, one refundable round trip business class ticket and
one hotel room, you know, full service property close to
the venue. But he here's an interesting thing. They normally
travel with the team member, so if it's domestic note
it's if it's where you guys live in the USA,

(26:16):
they normally bring a team member with them. So while
John Alice is sitting quite comfortably in the business class,
their team member, they require one a refundable economy class ticket,
so saying business class and the little what do you
call the lapdog or whatever will be in the economy class.

(26:36):
So you know, yeah, what about James, you know, considering
others better than yourself and favorable treatment. So I mean
that just that there just tells a story, man, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah? You You and I were talking this week and
we're It was Verry actually Barry Bowen that that talked
to me and told me about this golf tournament that
they have. I want to just put a couple of
slides up on the screen. They have this golf tournament
called Messengers Cup, and this is what it says there.
It says this will be this will be the fifteenth

(27:10):
Messenger Cup we've hosted at the beautiful five star, five Diamond.
I'm up again. I'm bringing my screen up because I'm
trying to read it right off the screen. Here, five Diamond,
broad More Resort and SPA. Each year, the event brings

(27:32):
together roughly two hundred and fifty leaders in business, church
and the arts. Our goal is to create an intimate
and unforgettable experience, one that fosters new relationships and shared
adventures and you get to change the world while having
fun because all proceeds from the event support our efforts

(27:56):
to make discipleship resources available to everyone everywhere. And those
discipleship resources, by the way, they are there books and
CDs and all of that stuff from Messengers International. So
it's not like they're they're doing a charitable fundraiser there.
They're actually the money's going to Messenger International and speak

(28:20):
talk about money. You you were able to I couldn't
find it, but you were able to. Uh, you were
able to find out the amount to become you know
one of the golfers in this event. What did you
find out?

Speaker 6 (28:34):
Well, there's a baby, you have the starts for that drug?

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yes, I do. Actually let me put it right now.
Look at that. So look at this seventeen thousand and
five hundred.

Speaker 7 (28:45):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
For like, this is the big one. If you want
to go hog wild here, you want to be one
of the top dogs. It only cost It's only going
to cost you seventeen thousand, five hundred dollars, and you
get to participate in the event for two people, four
nights in an upgraded room, priority status for one additional
standard room for guests or teens, airport transfers from and

(29:12):
to the Colorado Springs Airport. You will also be able
to participate in the following act activities and that list
several activities there that I don't think I need to
read now. If you can't afford this, though, folks, if
this is something that you can't afford, seventeen five hundred
dollars seems a little too steep for you, then perhaps
you want to pay for the seven thousand, five hundred

(29:34):
dollars package, which you know, I mean, you're gonna you're
not gonna get as many benefits there, but you can
participate in the event with for two people. You get
three nights in a beautiful room, not an upgraded room.
I'm sorry about that, two days of activities to golf tournament,
alpine adventures or spa services, and then you get other

(29:54):
activities and events. You get to meet and greet the ladies,
hang out with Lisa. Oh, for seven thousand dollars, you
get to hang out with Lisa bevir Uh, you get
to be a part of a bankwet Friday cookout, dessert
reception and leadership for them, oh and more.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
So. I mean.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
It's it's shameful. It really is shameful.

Speaker 6 (30:19):
Just do the math, right, two hundred and fifty at
the bottom at the entry levels. Two hundred and fifty
times seven thousand, five hundred US dollars. Man, that's a
lot of money. And as you've said, you know, the
proceeds go to printing his book, so you know that's
the majority. And they are one of the top what
I want to say, not companies, but organizations in the

(30:41):
world when it comes to sending out Christian Christian literature,
and it's all John and Yobavia's books. And so who's
becoming famous? You know who they're pointing to Jesus Christ
or to the private revelations and interpretations and all the
stories of John and Isobavia. But this is a lot
of money, Dan, it's really you know, just think what

(31:03):
that money could be put to, you know, feeding widows
and orphans or whatever, you know, helping uplift believes you
are really struggling. Instead, it just gets pumped into their
materials while while the rich, the rich and the influential
have a good laugh and a chuckle and feast like
Kings and Queen's. It's disgusting.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
It really is, it really is. So we've talked a
little bit about John, let's talk a little bit about Lisa.
I want to I want to bring up some slides
because these are your slides. You have read some of
her books, and some of the things that she has
said in her books are just they're just horrible, and
I mean that they are they are really really awful.

(31:43):
And I'm going to start with this one right here.
This comes from what book? Is that? Is that a
book or is that something that was quoted like s
website or something.

Speaker 6 (31:54):
This was actually from her instagram.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Ah, gotcha, gotcha?

Speaker 6 (31:58):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
So she says, I confess and renounce my sin and
or the sins of my forefathers in the areas of
drug and alcohol abuse. Father closed any door this may
have opened in the spirit realm to sin, bondage, or oppression.
I renounce my involvement with specifically call the drugs out
by name. If applicable, and I break the power of

(32:24):
their curse off my life and off the lives of
my children, their children, and their children's children. Here's another slide,
and this comes from uh is that a book there?

Speaker 6 (32:37):
Rick's you know why we lose when you're given?

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, and you can just see the the nar terminology here,
this idea of generational curses, this idea of binding and loosing,
that kind of thing that both of them teach, Father,
release your angels to retrieve the fragments of my soul
from these men or women, restore them to me by
your spirit, so that I might be whole, holy, and

(33:04):
set apart for your pleasure. Rick, what exactly what exactly
is she talking about?

Speaker 3 (33:11):
Do you read? Do you? Do you all?

Speaker 2 (33:13):
I mean, I'm sure it's been a while since you've
read the book.

Speaker 6 (33:15):
But yeah, So it's basically, you know, they're talking about
your past relationships. So if you sort of had an
ungod in your relationship or or things went tire in
your relationship, you know, whether it's you know, male or female,
and you hurt. So basically you've got hurt from this
relationship and you need to cut off, especially if it

(33:36):
was a sinful relationship, you know, so you need to
cut off and repent of that. And this whole notion
of fragments of the soul, you can look it up.
It's actually as it's not obviously not a biblical view,
but it's actually a chalmanistic practice where the sharmans would
go and retrieve those fragments of your soul. So there's

(33:59):
nothing Christian about it at all. It's so it's basically
a shamanistic way of heating trauma. So you've had some
sort of trauma, nasty breakup or the spouse or a
boyfriend who abused you, verbally abused you or in other
ways whatever. So you know, it's really looking outside of
the scripture for help. You know. Angels, you know, don't

(34:22):
go around looking for broken fragments of our soul and
bring them back to us to put us together. It's
really a dangerous and deceptive teaching. Like as you said, Dan,
the general rational curses and this is what this is
back to what we said earlier, is they fly under
the radar. But if you just scratch a little bit,
you're going to find all the naar false spiritual warfare

(34:43):
teachings that bring people into incredible bondage.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah. Absolutely, here's another one. Before we go any further,
pick up a pen. Now, this is this is just,
this is crazy, this is this is awful. Before we
go any further, pick up a pen, close your eye,
and ask your creator to whisper his unique designations over you.

(35:07):
Don't be afraid that you are making up words of
love and value. These words are really how he sees you,
So don't be afraid you're making them up, right, be
still a moment, and no, I challenge you to write
down three words or phrases that he whispers to you.

(35:28):
I mean, wow, wow, Jesus calling times to Jesus calling
what how do they say that? Two point oh? Jesus
calling two point zero? I mean, uh, so what book
was that from? I didn't even I didn't even look
at the bottom of it. I let me let me
go back and have a look at it again, actually,
and just take a look here. That is from uh

(35:50):
without Rival, Embrace your identity and purpose in an age
of confusion? And uh was that in comparison? So yeah,
I mean.

Speaker 6 (36:00):
Well you're going to be confused and be comparing yourself
the whole time if you read that book. And I'll
tell you what you know by these books normally on Kindled,
so I can research them, and you know, you type
in a word and it will give you all the
instances where that word is used. One of the reasons
I like Kendle. And if you're just in that specific
book type in the word whisper, it's so many times,

(36:24):
you know, I basically stop counting how many times they
use that word whisper. So I don't think this is
necessarily automatic writing, right, It's more your own sort of
imagination and pretending that God is whispering these words of you.
But as you can see that Daniels, she says, don't
be afraid to make things.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
Up right and right.

Speaker 6 (36:43):
So and so, what is your carnal nature and yourself
going to make up? Well, obviously it's going to be
amazing things. You're not going to hear a whisper from
God saying HNT. No, it's going to be you're awesome,
You're amazing. I've called you to do this, this amazing
thing or whatever. In this whole you know, whisper thing
as we know it comes from me, Larjah. And yeah,

(37:05):
that's a whole nother story. You know, just look at
the context. Elijah heard it whisper, but eventually he went
outside and God spoke to him in an audible and
external voice and slushed this inner feeding or sense. God
is saying, well, this word popped into my mind, and
that's possibly the Holy Spirit. So basically it's teaching people

(37:25):
to look inward instead of to Christ.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
And that's what gets me when when Isaiah, like, you're
you're exactly right. When Isaiah heard that that still small
voice that they're always referencing, it was an external voice,
it was an audible voice. It was it was you know,
it was not this whisper inside of your heart. There's
nothing in scripture that teaches us that we are to
try to hear God's voice by listening. Do you know

(37:50):
I have listened to hours and hours of lectures from
not it. Well, it's not Gnostic Teachings dot organ more,
but it's changed its name, but it used to be
called Gnostic Teachings dot org. And there was a lecture
on the Gnostic Prayer Book and it was given by

(38:12):
a lady at a retreat, a Gnostic retreat. She is
not a Christian at all, and she talked about hearing
her God and how and she mentioned Jesus Christ, and
she she sounded so Christian and some of these these
things that she was saying, but she mentioned how, you know,
you should be going in your prayer closet and you

(38:33):
should be listening for the voice of God. And you
should be. But the God that she's speaking of is
not the God of scripture. It's that God because that
God that's in you, because they believe. Gnostics believe that
we all have this divine spark living in us, and
we should be able because we are actually little gods.
We can you know, or I shouldn't say little gods,

(38:54):
that's word of faith, but we are actually gods. We
have this divine spark, so we we can. We can
hear that divine spark, that God within us speaking to us,
and we can name that God whatever we want. He
can be Jesus, he can be uh, you know, Buddha,
he can be anyone. Uh, he could be any God
you want him to be. But that's that's so similar

(39:18):
to what you know, I hear in a lot of
these you know, go into your prayer closet and listen
to God, listen for God teachings, because if you listen
to what these gnostics say they're basically doing the same thing,
and uh so, yeah, it's just it's really disturbing. But
I've got a clip now, Rick, from Lisa Bevie. It's

(39:40):
the only clip I'm going to play today by Lisa Vivie.
But I think it's a really important one because this
is this is something that she well, it's it's something
that she almost equates herself to. Well, you'll see something
in scripture. Watch.

Speaker 7 (39:56):
That is what my life looked like when God had
the audacity to interrupt it with a night vision.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
I went to.

Speaker 7 (40:05):
Sleep and I found myself wildly awake, standing in front
of a platform of stone. Laying on top of the
platform was a lioness. On the front of the platform
was the word numbers and then the Roman numerals x
x three. The longer I looked at this lioness, I

(40:28):
realized that she was more alive than me, even though
she didn't move. See. I believe the lioness I saw
was a revelation of what God wants his bride to
look like. People are at ease with their strength and
at rest with their power. People who will not strive

(40:48):
with one another, but people who know who they are.
I remember looking at her and it looked like her
fur was combed gold. I don't know if you've ever
had a glimpse where God has pulled back the veil
and you've just seen a little bit of heaven. But
I will tell you when I saw that, I realized
that we live in a shadow realm, and everything there

(41:12):
is the prototype. The longer I looked at this vision,
the more I felt like something inside of me was expanding.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
And when I felt like I.

Speaker 7 (41:22):
Couldn't take anything else in, I heard, with the birth
of this sun, you will awaken a lioness.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
All right. So to me that sounded like that child
is going to be something special, because with the birth
of this child, God is going to raise a lioness.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
You know.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
It just it's just very, very disturbing. And these guys
kind of do that. I've noticed that in watching their
videos that they they kind of compare themselves to these
special things that happened in Scripture. I've noticed that a lot.
So what's your what's your thoughts?

Speaker 6 (42:04):
I was thinking of John the Baptist and maybe even
the birth of Jesus because it's such a significant, you
know event. Yeah, yeah, it's almost like she's you know,
it's like a biblical story that she's telling. And you know,
if you if you dig under her sort of she's
sort of fighting this this whole spirit in the world today,

(42:25):
you know, the feministic movement, and she seems to be
fighting that. But but under the surface, she's a full
blown feminist. I mean, you know, she she's a full
blown feminist. And if anything, we're not we're not. You know,
the bride of Christ is not alarmed. We're usually stupid
sheep and Jesus is the line of Judith, so you know,
so you know, she's she's really interesting things there. But yeah,

(42:47):
I know, yeah, every event and you know with John
Viviae as well, he always like exaggerates things. You heard
him there saying when he was in the in the Amphitheater,
believe it wasn't the result a big rushing wind came
and you know what, does that remind you of the
day of Pentecost? So you absolutely right, Daniel though, always
comparing it to the cata cosmic or very significant events

(43:08):
in scripture. Yeah, I think she just said too much
pizza that evening.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
That's all I do too. She's actually, uh, I watched
that video and it it's a mess all the way through,
but she's actually talking about how I guess how normal
her life was, and how you know, she just all
she had was right then her husband was out, you know,
doing book tours and speaking engagements, and she was stuck

(43:35):
home with the kids. And so God gives her this
this vision and and and then of course what I
don't have a clip of and I should have got
a clip of is her saying that God told her
to write. God wanted her to write a book. And
so she teaches the same kinds of things that her
husband does about the books that God just needs her

(43:55):
to write, you know, just like God needs John to write.
And so yeah, so let's talk about who they are
connected with, because that's really important as well. Rick. They
first of all, if you go to the Bethel website,
I don't have a slide of a lot of things
that I just didn't get we you know, for this
that I'm I'm sitting here thinking, oh, I should have

(44:16):
got to I should have got the slide for that,
But anyone can do it. Go on the Bethel website
and just type in John Bevie and you'll see him
him him pop up there. He is a you know,
he frequents Bethel, so he's connected to the Bethel clan.
And you saw the video clip that we did earlier.
He was at Bethel Church speaking at the Open Heavens
conference in twenty seventeen. Who else is he connected with?

(44:39):
I'm going to actually put a picture up here so
that slide so that everyone can see his connections. There
we go, So how about that so you can see
there he's connected to a bunch of people. We got
Robert Morris, we got Brian, we got is that is
that the John and Jane? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (45:02):
Yeah, I thought? And then Jan Fitzgerald Top rights YEP,
Awakening Europe, whose mother is the occultist under a charad
of a ministry called christ Alignment. It's actually just an app.
They offer readings that basically gets a fortune tennis lift.
You can see the books that they use, Chris Feederton's

(45:23):
book and they both read from the Passion translation Laser
Red Flag and the message.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, and you can see they're on the on the
left there on the very bottom right, I should say,
looking if you're looking at it, it's Joyce Meyer and
Lisa Beavie. There sitting hanging out together. So yeah, yep,
so so they they are connected to a lot of
false teachers. You can go on minnows Where's website n

(45:48):
AR Connections and just type in John BeVier and you
can see all of that there. It's very, very easy
to find. But now comes the most important part of
this episode, Rick, and I think that is going to
be the tea because this is where this is where
it really gets bad. It really gets bad here. And
the twisting of scripture in these next to these next

(46:11):
two clips is just egregious because this first one it's
picture Acts chapter one, or is it Acts chapter two?
It's Act chapter one. The disciples are in the upper
room and Judas has gone to be you know, he's
hung himself. Peter says, he's gone to his own place,

(46:34):
and they need to choose another another apostle, and there's
two that's put forth and they draw lots, and the
lot is cast and Matthias has chosen and they you know,
they pray, actually Lord, you know the hearts. But you've
listened to what John Bavie says, because John Vivere actually
says that Peter shouldn't have done it that way. He

(46:56):
made a mistake.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Watch now, I was Catholic, and then he brought up
the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has far fewer breakups.
Why because family doesn't break up over doctrine. And I
heard that, and that has revolutionized the way I think,
the way I am. I think I've come to that point.

(47:17):
But he identified it. And so you know, think about
the Upper Room. Okay, how many of you know Peter's
just kind of out of sink half the times in
the gospels. You right, you're the Christ. Get behind me.
Satan walking on water, he's drowning, right, He's in the
presence of the glory of God. Then he wants to

(47:38):
build a tabernacle for Moses. I mean, the guy is
out of sink. Well, he's out of sink in the
upper room. I mean, Jesus left him in charge. But
I'm telling you he's out of sink because he comes
bursting out of his private time and he says, oh
my gosh, I found Judas. In the scripture, it says
in Psalms he was gonna follow and somebody's got to
take his place. He said, quick, find everybody's been with

(47:59):
us from the beginning. We're gonna pray and drive lots
to see who God's chosen to replace him. How many
of you know God doesn't pick an apostle through a
lottery system. I mean, come on, Peter, Jesus is your example.
He stayed up all night and prayed before he chose
the twelve. In Luke six and later on they were

(48:20):
in sync and Acts thirteen when they fastened a minister
of the Lord and right, Paul was God's choice to
replace Jesus. That's my opinion, Okay. He was the one
said I was born as one out of due time.
In other words, I was too young to be one
of the original twelve. If you look at the timeline,
it's true. But you know what I love. The very
next verse says they were with one a card, they

(48:43):
were family, they were obedient to the word of Jesus.
He told five hundred to go to the upper room,
but this one twenty said hey, we're Jesus people, and
he said go to the upper room. We're staying. We
don't care if he is picking apostle through a lottery system.
I think we didn't fast and pray, but who cares.
We're won.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
I mean, I don't. I don't really have too many
words there, because they literally prayed and said, Lord, which
one do you choose? And the lots were cast and
the lot fell on my thighs, and that was one
of the ways they chose. That's just how they did

(49:21):
things back then. You see lots cast throughout the Old
Testament as well. I mean, this is not I mean
when I first saw that, when I first heard him
say that, I was just literally shocked. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 6 (49:36):
Yeah, it's uh, it's crazy, you know that you can't
just do a little bit of research in a readiverse
problem sixteen thirty three. The lot is cast into the lap,
but it's every decision is from the Lord. And then
you know in the Old Tiste and they used the
what you roman, the simon. It's very difficult words to pronounce,
so the high priest would actually carry them in his breastlet.

(50:00):
And when it came to important decisions, that's how decisions
were made. And I just had to look you, dad,
there's at least eighty references to lots in the Old Testament,
that's eight zero eighty. And there were some really important
decisions made, like the choosing of Joshua was through the
Urim and the Thumman. So you can look at up
the so many instances where they actually used lots. And

(50:21):
remember this is before the disciples were folded the Holy Spirit,
before the full canon of scripture. And as you said
in the beginning, it's one of the ways that God
used for to help his people to make decisions. So
for him for him to say that, and I mean,
it's a whole lot of what he says that is
absolute nonsense. And but this is typical of Bevia. So

(50:41):
what he's doing this is saying it's okay to sweep
huge mistakes under the rug. Except it wasn't a big mistake.
And you'll see that in his other books, and we're
probably going to get into that where he sort of
he makes excuses for corrupt pastors and big errors. Then
you know, just ignore that and let's just be a
happy Femi. But this is absolutely nonsense. Shame on him

(51:03):
for coming up with this concept, you know, And he says,
it's his opinion. We don't want your opinion, we want
the word of God exactly. Keep quite about your opinions.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Amen, Amen? And wait, do you hear his teaching on
the Holy Spirit. But first we've got you know, Peter's
not the only one that made mistakes and didn't follow
God's will. The Apostle Paul did the same thing. Watch.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
I'm going to tell you something. This past month of
my life has just been really, really amazing. It started
about a month ago. I was on a fast and
the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said, read the
Book of Acts. Now, the ironic part of this is
the last time I went on extended fast, the Holy
Spirit said, read the Book of Acts, and I was like, okay.
And as I read through the Book of Acts at

(51:48):
the time previous, I remember what stood out is the
Apostle Paul, his calling upon his life was to go
to the Gentiles. But because of his natural love, he
kept going first in every city, to the Senate of Gogs,
to his Jewish countrymen. And the result of that was
he kept getting in trouble and trouble and trouble. And
the greatest trouble that was caused for him was from

(52:08):
those Jewish people. And God spoke to me in that
fast and said, stay within what I've called you to do,
because if you go outside of it, you're asking for trouble.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Think about the audacity of that statement. All right, God
was confirming to actually revealing to job Bevere that the
apostle Paul made a lot of mistakes. He should have
he should not have gone into the synagogues because he

(52:39):
loved the Jews. You know, that's where his first love was,
and he needed to go in there and win the Jews.
And that's where he just got in all kinds of trouble.
He got persecuted and all that without even I mean, okay,
every single place that Paul went except for one, and
that's in Acts chapter seventeen, when he went into the marketplaces.

(52:59):
If I if I remember correctly, every place Paul went
when he first came into a town was a synagogue
or by the river he went by. That's right. There
in Philippi there was no synagogue, so there was a
meeting place by the river. But it was always to
the synagogues. Why because there were god fearers there. There
were both Jews and Gentiles. There there was Cornelius. He

(53:23):
attended a synagogue, He gave alms to the poor. He
was a god fearer. Now the god fearers weren't They
hadn't converted completely to Judaism, but they were gentiles who
worshiped the One True God. And so that's why Paul
went into the synagogues. Paul wasn't going into the synagogues

(53:44):
just because I just want to go. And yes, he
loved his fellow Jews. And Romans chapter nine, he makes
that clear, you know, But and Romans chapter ten, Roman
chapters nine, ten and eleven actually where he's talking about
how much his love is for the Jews. But the
point is is that he was going there to win
anyone he could win with the Gospel included you and gentile.

(54:10):
You know, It's just it's just absolutely bizarre and just blasphemous,
you know.

Speaker 6 (54:17):
Yeah, once again another revelation after he fastered and prayed. Yeah,
you know, I often think of I's when God told
and then asked to go to Paul. And it's sort
of the first sort of one could say word of knowledge,
although it's from God and first prophetic word. And God said,
I will show him how much he's going to suffer.

(54:39):
That's an only prophetic word, isn't it. I'll show you
how much you're going to suffer. So so Bavilla sort
of saying that, you know, if Paul was obedient, you'd
have had a much easier time on earth. That sounds
to me like what he's saying or love this persecution.
But you know, and then when Paul's before King of Grippy,
he says, I was not disobedient to him and the vision.

(55:02):
And then he says, you know, I went to Judea Samiria.
So the area is once again with John Vivie, not
with the apostle Paul. You know, this is nonsense what
he's teaching it after fasting. So it just shows that
his faster was absolutely blintless because once again he just
is hearing from his own imagination and coming up with

(55:22):
something novel to teach his followers.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Yeah, that's it. So those are that's that's the apostles
that he really messes up there. But what's even worse
is what he teaches about the Holy Spirit. So listen
to what he says. Hear about the Holy Spirit, about
God the Father, and about God the Son.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
Watch you know, the Holy Spirit. He is the only
one of the Godhead that is actually here on this earth.
So who is the Holy Spirit? We got to ask that. Amen.
He is the most amazing, wonderful toful, kind, tender, sensitive,
mighty person. On the face of this earth, you say, John,

(56:07):
on the face of this earth. Oh yeah, on the
face of this earth. Because you have to understand, the
Father is not here on earth. He's on his throne
in heaven. Jesus is not here on the earth. I
hear people say all the time, Jesus is in my heart.
He's seated at the right hand of God. And the
angel specifically said, while the Zachs one nine and eleven,

(56:29):
while the disciples watched, Jesus was taken up and a
cloud received them out of their sight. The two angels said,
men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven?
The same Jesus who was taken up from you into heaven,
will so come in like manner as you saw him
go into heaven. In other words, he's gonna come in
the clouds. Has he come in the clouds? No, there's

(56:49):
some people that might think that, but you know they're
out in a ranch somewhere, you know where we can't
find them. But he hasn't come in the clouds yet.
That means he's at the right hand of God in heaven.
Because when Stephen was being stone, Stephen looked and he
saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at his
right hand. I love that.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Okay, let's de bunk that with scripture. Shall we I've
got several passages that I would like to read that
just absolutely debunks that. And I know what he does here.
He you know what he does after this is he
he talks about they that the Holy Spirit is the
spirit of Jesus and the spirit of the Father, but
it's not the Father, it's not the Son. But scripture

(57:29):
just totally denies that. Now, Actually, you know what, Rick,
Before we read the scripture passages, I want to talk
for a minute about where he actually gets that teaching from,
because I've heard Jesse do Plantis say it. When Jesse
do Plantus talks about his heaven visit, when he went
to heaven and he sees, Yeah, I see on the

(57:53):
throne the Father, and I see Jesus at the right hand.
But you know the Angel standing right next to him.
But where's where's the Holy Spirit. I don't hear the
I don't see the Holy Spirit. And Angel looks at
me and he says, Jesse, he's on the earth. So
I mean, so that's that's Jesse to plants. But Benny
Hen also uh taught this. This is an old clip

(58:14):
of Benny hen on. And remember Benny Hen was Uh
he was under Benny Hen. I don't think we members,
did we?

Speaker 3 (58:22):
So so he was.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
He was mentored by Benny Hen And that was in
the eighties.

Speaker 6 (58:28):
Rights correct, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
And I think he was a youth pastor and his
personal assistant if I remember correctly. But yeah, so he
was discipled by Benny Hen. And this is Benny hen
saying something similar. Watch please touch me, heal me.

Speaker 8 (58:44):
You'd respond right away, the father said before they call
al anza. Yes, but it's through Jesus. So's it happens
through the Sun, who gives it to me. But now
the healer, he is the deliverer. See God gives it,
Jesus delivers it. Okay, I try to reach it, but
I can't. You know why, because flesh and spirit don't mix.

(59:07):
This is spirit, this is but I'm so I'm trying
to touch his spiritual gift and I can't. And then
I get all upset and I look back and I say,
oh God didn't hear me. But he heard me the
second I said touch me? What it is somebody is
missing in this picture, somebody at my side, not in
the godhead. He left the God and he's on earth.

(59:29):
Of course, he's one with the Father and the Son,
and he's ever, but he is on earth now.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
He was sent by uh. He proceeds from the Father
and the Son, and so he is here with us.
But he and he does live within us. And so
we're not denying that at all, but we are. But boy,
I mean, even Benny hen tries to kind of correct
this out there, but I did not. I do not
hear John Bevere ever do that in any time. And

(59:56):
he's mentioned that in more than one sermon or teaching
that I listened to this week. That wasn't the first
place I heard that. But any any thoughts before we
look at what the scripture passages say about.

Speaker 6 (01:00:11):
This, I've just done that they could make such such
an error. I'm just stunned, you know, just that the
little clipt should make you want to run.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like he's breaking the Trinity
up into parts, you know, and it's just it boggles
the mind. But let's look at what the Bible says
about Jesus and the Father. So let's start with Christ.
And there's not many passages that talk about the Father
in us, but there is a couple, but there's a
lot that talk about Christ. So let's look at Matthew

(01:00:42):
twenty eight twenty, and we're just gonna these are just
short little verses, but here we go Matthew twenty eight twenty,
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you,
and behold, I am with you always to the end
of the age John fourteen twenty. And that day you
will know that I am in my Father, and you
in me, and I in you. So He's with us

(01:01:04):
to the end of the age. So he's president on earth,
he's present in us, and he is in us as well.
Galatians two twenty. I've been crucified with Christ, and it
is no longer I who live, but Christ, who lives
in me and the life. I now live in the flesh.
I live by faith and the Son of God, who
loved me and gave himself for me, so he lives
in me. Colossian's one twenty seven. To them God chose

(01:01:25):
to make known how great among the gentiles are the
riches of the glory of this mystery. Which is Christ
in you the hope of glory. Here's a really clear
one right here, tewod Corinthians thirteen to five. Examine yourself
to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves,
or do you not realize this about yourself, that Jesus
Christ is in you? You know this isn't We're not

(01:01:48):
talking here like he says about the spirit of Christ.
Only this is those spirit. No, it says Jesus Christ
is in you, unless indeed you fail to test Ephesians
three seventeen, So that Christ may dwell in your hearts
through faith, that you being rooted and grounded in love.
John seventeen twenty three. I in them, and this is

(01:02:08):
talking about the Father as well. I in them, you
and me, that they may become perfectly one, so that
the world may know that you sent me and love
me even as I and loved them even as you
love me. And then here's a couple of verses about
the Father John fourteen twenty three. Jesus answered him, if
anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my

(01:02:29):
father will love him, and we will come to him
and make our home with him. So the father as
well as the son comes and abides in us as well.
If Esys four five through six, One Lord, one Faith,
one Baptism, one God and Father of all, who is
over all and through all and in all. So these

(01:02:56):
passages of scripture absolutely debunk what John Bavie says about
the Holy Spirit and you it just it just boggles
the mind. But anyway, any anything you wanted to add
or any thoughts you had about that.

Speaker 6 (01:03:12):
No, just agree with you. It's almost like they're they're
splitting the trinityes though, you know, the Holy spirits here
and the Father and Jesus on heaven waiting for the
Holy Spirit to read that information to them about how
things are going down on earth. You know what is
busy with you know, And it's isn't it frightening that
a manner of his caliber, such a huge worldwide ministry

(01:03:34):
is messing with the Trinity and with the omnipresence of
God and missing such basic, important, vital doctrines. It's it's frightening, actually.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
It really is. It really is.

Speaker 6 (01:03:45):
So yeah, sorry, let me just think there. You know,
we're speaking about Benny Inn and I once reached out
to Messenger International and obviously, you know, people said, have
you ever contacted these people. Why don't you sit down
with the privately? I reached out, You only get a
social media person. And my question was, why doesn't John
Bevie warn about Benny Hinton because he teaches all these

(01:04:07):
false doctrines. And I used the example of Costy who's
come out and is actually related and warned about Benny
in And so she said to him that the official
policy of Messenger International and John and Lisa Vivie is
to not make any public statements about any other ministry.
Isn't that scary? And what did we see in the photograph?

(01:04:27):
We saw a picture of him next to two predators,
Brian Houston and Robert Morris. And even now there are
there's silence from those called absolute silence. So don't come
and pretend that you're a good shepherd when you're silent
about the sheep who come in to devour the flock.
It's disgusting.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Yeah, and think about this too, Rick. The Holy Spirit
talks to him all the time. I mean like he's
he everywhere he goes, you know, he brushed his teeth
going to the bathroom, whatever. The Holy Spirit's always whispering
something to him. And why didn't he the Holy Spirit
tell him about you know, Robert Morris or Brian Huston.
You know, yeah, exactly. I'm happy. Well, the Holy Spirit

(01:05:11):
talks to him like, you know, like like you and
I are talking to each other. But except for the
fact that you and I don't talk to each other
five minutes, you know, every five minutes, you know, it's like,
I mean, oh my, which brings up which is this
is a good transition into the next teaching, and that
is the false teaching on repentance, because okay, he was

(01:05:37):
speaking at a Consecrate conference back in twenty twenty two,
I believe. And when you look at that audience, you
can't see anything from the front because of the camera.
The only camera they have throughout the entire video is
that back camera that you're about to see, and you
just see him on staging here really really well. But
you can see the back of the heads of these

(01:05:58):
people in the audience, and if I am not wrong,
and you can correct me, when you look at the crik,
when you look at the clip, it's mostly young people,
and so I think that's who he's talking to. But
there I watched this entire video, which is I think
it's like an hour over an hour long, and there
was not one one mention of the Cross of Christ.

(01:06:25):
It was all about repentance. That's good, Yeah, let's talk
about repentance. Yes, that that that that should be talked about,
But not one mention of the cross. He talked about
the hands, the nails, uh pierced the nail piercing Jesus once.
I think he mentioned and he mentioned the Great Exchange once,
but he didn't even explain what that was at all.

(01:06:47):
This was the most law and I commented on the video,
I was so angry after watching this. This is the
most law heavy sermon I think I have ever heard.
And he's speaking to young people. So this we've got.
I've got one, two, three, four, I've got like five
clips that I'm I'm not I'm gonna play each one,
we'll talk about them, and then we'll go to the

(01:07:08):
next one. Because this is the most egregious I think
of all of us, of all of the videos that
I've watched, because he does not give a gospel presentation.
He leaves these young people burdened with heaviness. And you'll
see exactly what I'm talking about because his idea of

(01:07:29):
knowing that you're a Christian is giving your life to
Jesus the way he gave his life to you. And
the reason why this miffs me is because this is
the kind of stuff that I was taught, stuff like this.
So I want you to just check this clip out
and tell me what you think.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
The only way to enter an authentic relationship with Jesus
is to break up with all those things that offend
him him and to give yourself to him the way
he gave himself to you. How did he give himself
to you? I want you to stop and think. Close
your eyes, close your eyes and think.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Think with me.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
This is your creator. This is the one who put
the stars in the universe with his fingers and called
every one of them by name. This is the one
who weighed every drop of water on the planet in
the palm of his hand. This is the one who
created everything you see and you don't see. He chose
to leave what you can't you and I can't even

(01:08:34):
imagine yet. And he came to this earth, and he
knew that he would be despised. He knew that he
would be shamed, He knew that he would be rejected.
He knew that he would be punched in the face.
He knew that he would be spit on in his face.

(01:08:56):
He knew that they would pluck every one of his
beers follicles out. He knew that they would weave a
crown of thorns that were like nails and shove them
into his skull. He knew that they would whip him
forty times and rip his flesh open. He knew that
when they were done, listen, Isaiah said that you wouldn't

(01:09:17):
even recognize him to be a human being because he
is so beaten.

Speaker 9 (01:09:23):
He knew that, because he told Isaiah that's what's gonna happen,
that he'd be mocked.

Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
He knew that he'd be put on a cross and
have nails driven into his hands. This is your creator,
and he chose to give himself entirely to you, and
we think he's coming back for a bride that's still
in bed with the world.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Never all right, That is uh. That is how you
you become a Christian. You give yourself to Jesus the
way he gave himself for you. We are never told.
We are told that Christ is the one who gave
himself for us. We are not told that we are
to give ourselves to Jesus the way he gave himself

(01:10:23):
for us. We are told to believe in the one
who came and gave himself for us. So this is
this is just horrible, horrible, and but wait, there's more.
But I want to get your comments.

Speaker 6 (01:10:37):
You asked me if you if it looks like young people. Corrected,
it looks like youth service or something.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Yeah, but.

Speaker 6 (01:10:45):
What a horrible burden to place on people. I haven't
watched the whole bit. Here I mentioned sin, and here
I mentioned the wrath of God. I didn't you know
he's you know what, Daniel, I mean you you know
exactly what the law is for ar It's to show
us then be concentertain a standard. Yeah, just to Christ.

(01:11:05):
And it sounds to me like he's making the law
of the standard.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
He is he is, He's absolutely doing that throughout this
entire video. And you're right. Not once does he mention
does he mention the cross? Now? I can't remember if
he mentioned the wrath of God? But to me, just
listening to this law, heavy heavy handed preaching, how can

(01:11:30):
you not feel the wrath of God because you have
to give everything up? If you want Christ to even
think about giving himself for you. So it's not something
that's already been done for us, because Christ has already
given himself for us. He's already bled and died for
our sins. He has taken the wrath of God completely

(01:11:53):
for our sins. There's not one thing we have to do.
It's already been done. But he doesn't tell this to
these this group of people here, And like I said,
I do believe it is young people. But you think
that's bad, watch this next one.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
So this is what I want to ask you, with
your head's a bout and your eyes closed, have you
given yourself to Jesus? Have you given yourself to him
the way a bride gives herself to a husband on
her wedding day. Only you can answer that, and the
Holy Spirit is helping you right now to answer it.

(01:12:30):
And if you ignore what he's saying in your heart,
if you ignore the uncomfortableness, your heart will be harder
and it will be harder for you to hear the
next time. That's why the Bible says, now, if you
hear his voice, don't harden your heart. You know, if

(01:12:51):
you gave yourself to him, the way a bride gives
herself to the man she's married. If you haven't, and
you'd say, wow, my eyes have been opened up to
the truth. I've heard the word of God tonight. I'm responding.
I realize, Yeah, I pray to sinners, prayer. I'm even
here at the conference, a great conference. Hey, but I

(01:13:14):
haven't given my life to him the way a bride
gives her life to her groom on her wedding day.
I'm ready to do it right now. If that's you,
I want you to stand up immediately. If you say
I have not given myself to him the way a
bride gives herself to her groom on that wedding day,

(01:13:34):
and I want to do it right now, stand up immediately, Yes, sir,
stand up immediately. Look at people stand up as beautiful.
Stand up immediately. Don't wait and see if a lot
of other people are going to stand up, because if
you can't stand up now here in front of these guys,
how are you going to do it out there in
the streets of Nashville.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
Okay, So there's the beginning there. He's actually calling people
to come forward. He has not even he said here,
if God is convicting you or speaking to your heart
because of you know what you heard. But they didn't
hear the gospel. So God is not speaking to them
now because I mean, and I'm telling you, folks, he

(01:14:14):
did not preach the gospel. This entire message was just
all about this repentance. And he even went through scripture
passages Rick where he talked about he said, see, Jesus
said repent for the kingdom of heaven is and he
kept going on about repentance, and the apostles talking about
repentance and Jesus talking about repentance, which they did. But
the fact is is that there's the broad view of repentance,

(01:14:38):
which in which which is the preaching of the law
and the gospel, And that's what's going on there. When
Jesus said repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand,
that's the broad view. But then there's the narrow view
of repentance as well, and that's where you're preaching the
law and you're you're hammering at home and then you
give the gospel. He didn't do that it all, and

(01:15:01):
he's confusing law and gospel and it's just a mess.
It's an absolute mess. So Anyway, I digress, But that's
that's that's yeah, that's just horrible. And like I said,
I that's the kind of stuff I used to hear.

Speaker 6 (01:15:16):
Yeah, it's almost like you, well, you know, Jesus came
for the sick. You know, it's almost like he's saying,
go and see the doctor when you're better. You know,
you know, that's what he's saying. So it's just as
you said, you know, it is. It is totally backwards.
And you know, if you think what Christ actually has

(01:15:37):
done for us, and you know, his righteousness that he's
given to us sweetly, and then to make these poor
people feel like they've got attended themselves, it makes me sad,
you know, angry, and said.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
Yeah, I've got another clip here that from the same video,
and I think if it's not this one, it's the
next one. But in one of these two clips, he
actually he actually says to these guys as they're coming down,
why do you look so sad? Why wouldn't they look
so sad after hearing something like that? Watch this clip, Yeah,
watch this Come on, man, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:16:10):
So proud of you. First one to stand up. Come
on when you break up, come on down. Shouldn't take
that long. You made the decision already. Hey, come on, man,
come on, so proud of you, so proud of you.
Come on, come on, give my hand. So proud of you.
I'm so proud of you. And ju come on, give
them a hand. I'm so proud of you. I'm so
proud of you. Yeah, I'm proud of you. Come on,

(01:16:32):
I'm proud of you. Come on, give them a hand.
Keep coming, keep coming, keep coming. All right, all right,
all right, keep coming. There's a lot of room here
in the center. Come into the center. Coming in the center.
You got a lot of people in there. Okay, okay,
now look at me, Look at me, Look at me.
Everybody stand up and look at me. Why do you
have the sad looks on your face? You know, I

(01:16:54):
mean I've never seen a bride walking down the aisle
like I mean you have on the look on your
face right now. This is the great decision you've ever made.
If you could see Jesus right now, Afrigant, I'm gonna
pray you do. He has the massive smile on his face.
His eyes are like dancing with joy. He's so happy.
I mean, he was hopeful when you were sitting out there.

(01:17:15):
He was hopeful. I saw that. I saw him. He
was hopeful.

Speaker 4 (01:17:18):
He was hoping.

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
Man, I died for them. I hope they make this decision.
And now he's got this big old smile. Close your eyes.
I want to pray. I want to pray that you
see this. Now open up the eyes of your heart.
Just open close your physical eyes close him. Okay, Now
open up the eyes of your heart. Open up, open
him up, the eyes of your heart. Now, Holy Spirit,
I'm gonna ask Master, please do what you love to do.

(01:17:44):
Give us a glimpse, give us a glimpse. Let us
see him. Come on. Now, lift your hands up, lift
your hands up. That's the outward sign of what you're doing.
You've done inwardly put him up. Put him up high,
high Hi. Now open up the eyes of your heart.
Do you see him? You see the smile. It's not

(01:18:09):
just a smile. It's it's like this. Uh. I don't
even know how to describe it. It's like, ah, if
it's like a laughing smile. If is that? Do you
see that? Do you see that? Put both hands up,
both hands up. There he is he's here, Holy Spirit,
Thank you, he's here.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Okay, and he does that throughout. You know, he's here,
He's here, Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit, He's you know, you know,
Jesus is here. Jesus is here. And he does that.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna keep going there, but
uh yeah, it's it's it's really bad. And these poor kids,
and he says, why do you look so why do

(01:18:54):
you look so sad?

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
I mean, this is the gray you know what.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
No bride looks like this on her wedding day when
she walks down the eye.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
You guys look so sad.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
After a sermon, just I will put a link to
this sermon in the description. Go to the sermon and
listen to it. It is so heavy handed. And how
in the world were they supposed to be smiling. It's
not like they heard any good news. The good news

(01:19:21):
is that Christ bled and died for your sins. Here's
the good news. He bled and died for you. He
rose again for you. Everything that you need, everything in
God's law that God demands from you has already been
obeyed by Jesus Christ. By faith in him, you receive
his righteousness, and it's credited to your account. They didn't
hear anything like that. They heard no good news. All

(01:19:43):
they heard in that sermon was bad news. So anyway,
any other thoughts about that before we move on? Rick?

Speaker 6 (01:19:51):
Oh, just what he's using the power suggestion and guided
visualization imagery and as you said, you know, mister m execution.
Exactly what Bethel do you know to take people on
guarded trips to heaven? Yeah? Now, doing this, it's just
it's just terrible. He's leading them to another Jesus.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
That's what really is he really is? He really is?
All right, So that moves us into the final segment,
which is on his book under Cover. And you did
some You did some an entire video actually on this book,
didn't you.

Speaker 6 (01:20:26):
Yeah? Yeah, because it's such a you know, despicable teaching.
It's basically from the heavy shipping movement of the you know,
the seventies with Bob mamf, Derek Prince of Contry and others.
But this, this teaching is what allowed people like Mark Picckle,

(01:20:47):
Robert Morris Brown Houston's become prejudice is because of this
sort of teaching.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
I'm going to put a slide up and uh, we're
going to read that, and you tell me what you
think when God places his authority. This is from the
book Undercover. When God places his authority on a person,
no matter his private or personal revelation, we may still
receive if we look beyond it and honor him as
sent from God. Jesus made it clear that many will

(01:21:15):
receive from corrupt ministers as handed did. He said, many
will say to me in that day, Lord Lord, have
we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in
your name, and done many wonders in your name that
I would have cleared to them? I never knew you
depart from me, you who practice lawlessness. So you know
what exactly, Rick, what exactly is he is he saying there?

Speaker 6 (01:21:37):
I mean he's you know, he's saying that that. Basically
he's saying that you can be shippeted by a wolf.
That's what he's saying. So you know what he's missing
there to And then, as you've pointed out, he goes
to the Old Testament frequently, so he'll use examples of
bad kings from the Old Testament and say, but God

(01:21:59):
still uses them. And what he's totally missing out is
that the qualification is to be a pastor, shepherd, elder
teacher in christ Church is totally different from being a
king under you know, in the theocracy of Israel. And
as we know, one of the qualifications to be a
pastor shepherd is your integrity, your character, your morals. You know,

(01:22:22):
you must be without reproach. But he totally dismisses that.
He doesn't. He doesn't, that doesn't come into his picture
at all. So he really believes that you can you
can receive spiritual food from a minister who's abusive, from
a pastor who abuses people. And we've seen that recently
with the whole Mark Bickle thing as well, haven't we,

(01:22:44):
Because Bob Jones told Mike Beckle that you can do
any to anything a woman except full blown intercourse and
still keep your mantle. You see what a horrible teaching
this is. So this undercovering teaching is it's like a
dream reference book for a predator to an abuser. It
really is a despicable teaching.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Yeah, I've got some clips now he's I don't know,
you know, I guess this is Robin is the one
that made these clips. She watched the entire Undercover series
and she thought these would be helpful. And he's sitting
in front of a group of like four people, like
he's sitting in some kind of home Bible study or something.
But here's the first one, and then we'll talk about it.

Speaker 3 (01:23:23):
Watch, children, always always obey your parents, for this pleases
the Lord. In Ephesian's one, it repeats the same command.
But look at Ephesian six. In Ephesian six one it
repeats the command. But look at Ephesians six two and
three honor. There's the word honor your father and mother.
This is the first commandment with a promise. So you

(01:23:44):
can see that there's a promise attached right to this
command of honoring your father and mother. What's the promise?
It's actually two promises. Number one, things will go well
for you. Number two, you'll have a long life on
the earth. Now I can't think of a greater promise
and being successful it will go well for you and
living long on the earth. Do you understand that you

(01:24:06):
have a promise of God if you honor your parents,
that you can look at cancer and say, get out
of this household. I've honored my parents, I will live
long and I will be successful to get out of
my house. WHOA that makes me happy?

Speaker 6 (01:24:17):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:24:17):
I just preached myself out of me right there.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Okay, well that tells you right there you heard prosperity
gospel and you know, cancer, get out of my house,
you know, faith healing stuff, whatever you want to call that.
But right there was the prosperity gospel. Rick, I mean, yeah,
for sure, get out of my house, cancer, you know,

(01:24:41):
or whatever. So what are your thoughts?

Speaker 6 (01:24:45):
Well, I immediately think of the people that this doesn't
work for because it's false. So you've got maybe people
watching this video right now who've got a chronic disease
or even a terminal illness. What message are they getting
from this? Are they getting that God's punishing them or
being disobedient somewhere along the line. And maybe their parents

(01:25:06):
passed away years ago, and now how did they reconcile
you know that that they weren't good children. They can't
exactly apologize to the parents who are dead. It just
creates a conon But it creates such despondence and fear
and condemnation. Yeah, that's law, that's what as you say,
that's what the law does. And yeah, that's what I said. Initially.

(01:25:28):
He makes no distinction between the law and the gospel.
He doesn't understand the difference almost between the law and gospel.
But what a what a what a horrible burden again
to place on people.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
Yeah yeah, And in this this next clip, listen to
what he says about Eli and Hannah. Here watch.

Speaker 3 (01:25:47):
This is what's really interesting about Elia is so spiritually
insensitive that God made the statement there is no forgiveness
for him or his household forever. Now you want to
hear God say there's no forgiveness for you or your
household forever. But yeah, God said that about Eli. Okay,
a prophet had come and said that. So we're talking

(01:26:08):
about a really really corrupt leader here, right. And he
calls her drunk, which is priyant. So if Hannah would
have responded that way, you call yourself a path I'm
out of here, right and going down the street. She
goes down the street, she would have missed out because
you know what, she doesn't respond that way. She responds
with respect and honor. She goes, no, my lord, little

(01:26:31):
l your maid servant is not drunk. But I'm crying
out to God and making a petition to God, all right.
She says that to him. Eli looks at her and
says this. He answered and said, go in peace, and
the God of Israel grant your petition which you have
asked of him. Within one year, she's got baby Samuel,
who brought revival to the whole nation in her arms. Now,
think about it, what she tried to get praying to

(01:26:54):
God for years and years, and she did not get
those prayers answered. She did not get that prayer answered
until she spoke respectfully to a man who completely dishonored her,
insulted her. So it wasn't for Eli's sake, it was
for Hannah's sake. Are you following me?

Speaker 2 (01:27:16):
Yeah, yeah, I'm right there with you. That that's horrible.
So in other words, you know, God was waiting for
Hannah to come in contact with Eli, who was who
had already you know, pretty much been disowned in a
sense by God, and was waiting for her to just

(01:27:37):
honor and respect him so that God could bless her
with a child. I mean, that to me.

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
Is just.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
I mean, it's I don't even know what to say
about that. I really don't, you know, it's it's just
not something that it's just not true, you know, I
have no works.

Speaker 6 (01:27:57):
It's evil. Yeah, whole thing to say. It would really
like saying, you know somebody now struggling, well, you know,
let's sort of put it in our in our in
our world, a woman, a woman can't feel pregnant, and
God expects her to go and speak with respect, respect

(01:28:18):
to Mike Beckle after his allegations have proven to be true.
So he would want her to go Mike Beckel and say,
you're a man of God, Mike Bckle, and you might
have made a mistake, but I respect you and honor
you because if I do that, I know God it's
going to help me for pregnant. I mean, you know,
putting it into a contemporary sort of illustrations, it just

(01:28:38):
is despicable. And that's what I said earlier. He's always
covering up for corrupt pastors, teachers, ministers. He's covering up
for him all the time, excusing them. Is I'm so
glad you've made this video because I think this has
come up footing in all the other videos I've seen
on the views of how bad this actually is. This
is wicked, wicked, wicked, wicked.

Speaker 2 (01:28:59):
Yeah, and you're you're exactly right that And that's a
great point you made there about the Mike Bickle situation.
Can you imagine that the the the the victims of
Mike Bickle, you know, God expecting them to uh go
to Mike Bickle and just be under his covering anyway

(01:29:23):
because you know, and and and you know, because that's
that's who God has appointed. And unless you do that, well,
you're you're not going to be blessed. I'm not going
to answer your prayers. You're not gonna you know, you're
you're not going to get into respect for me because
you're not respecting my uh my appointed leader even though
he is apostate, you know, he is still your leader.

(01:29:43):
It's just horrior It's it's like, ah, man, it's it's awful.

Speaker 6 (01:29:49):
It's awful. And I don't know if you're going to
mention if it's coming out that the Romans thirteen talks about,
you know, the subject to the governing authorities. And that's
one of the big problems with John Leavin's book is
he makes no distinction between civil authorities and the church.
So in the same way you'll submit to a government
that's abusive and fear makes rules you don't like, you

(01:30:09):
have to submit to a pastor who's abusive and makes
rules and decisions that you don't like.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, So this is another clip from that series,
and you're not going to believe this is the worst
I think of all watch you know.

Speaker 3 (01:30:25):
In working in those ministries, the one big ministry where
we had four hundred and fifty employees, I worked right
alongside a woman who she felt free to criticize our pastor.
And what happened was the local I think it was
ABC or NBC affiliate was trying to bring down our

(01:30:46):
pastor and because he'd become very big and our pastor
was starting to do some things that just weren't really wise,
and she got on the pro on the news network
on the special they did, and she talked about him. Right.
She was third inner, mid thirties, perfect health, she had
two kids, single mom. Two months later she died of

(01:31:08):
a massive brain anerism coincidence, I don't know. Let me
tell you another incident. I was working for a different
pastor and the head of his security came out against
him and ensued him. The day before the day before
the court hearing, he died of a heart attack at
forty nine years of age. I've seen too many coincidences

(01:31:30):
to say, you know, let's just brush that one off.

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
Okay, bro, this is like serious, this is this is
like I said, I'm watching this, this this documentary on
this on the Mormon cult, fundamentalist Mormon cult, and this
is the kind of stuff I'm hearing on there. I mean,
I'm listening to this and thinking this is cult like stuff.
I mean, if you disobey this pastor, no matter what

(01:31:55):
kind of you know, bad thing he's involved, Dan, it
doesn't matter. You have to obey him or God can
kill you. God, he could really kill you. I mean,
oh my.

Speaker 6 (01:32:09):
Goodness, this is touched, not God's anointed on steroids. And yeah,
this is fear mongering and at its highest. Yeah. So
and then again, Dan, I always go back to how
to affects people. So, you know, but you have a
Christian family and there's a tragic death in them, in
the family, you know what goes through their mind? You
know what pastor do they speak ill of? You know,

(01:32:32):
it's it's going down rabbit holes that that we shouldn't.
You know, why do people pass away? Will? God knows
and these different reasons. But this is just what is
it going to instill in people? Number One, It's going
to install in them the fear. To speak out against
wolves in sheep's clothing exactly be the ultimate goal, you know,
And that's probably why John Bavia doesn't want to speak

(01:32:54):
out against the predators that he's ministered with. I don't know,
maybe thinks if he does that, God will you know,
take away he's one of his luxurious homes. Oh yeah,
you know, I strike him dead. Sure? Well yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:06):
In this next clip. In this next clip, he this
is not from this uh little series here on Undercover,
but this is from another speaking engagement where he was at.
In this next clip, he talks about how God could
take your kid's watch.

Speaker 3 (01:33:22):
Fear is a terrible task master. If you want to
be delivered from the fear of God, it's very simple.
Lay your life down for Jesus, because Jesus said, no
greater love is this than a man lays down his
life for his friend. Your very best friend should be Jesus.
Lay your life down for him. And the Bible says, perfect,
perfected love casts out fear. There it goes. Never forget.

(01:33:44):
I was in San Diego, and I was in there
and I heard I heard a voice. I heard a voice, Paul.
I heard a voice. So and so is a great minister.
His kid was electrocuted, So and so is and died.
So and so is a great minister. His his kid
died new car wreck. So and so is a great minister.
His kid drowned. So and so is a great minister.
He lost three of his children. I mean, I was

(01:34:08):
gripped here, I am now, and I've got these beautiful boys.
I was gripped and I remember I said, God, God,
I want this happening with my boys. And the Lord
spoke something to me. I'll never forget. He said, son,
any area of your life that you have fear in

(01:34:30):
is an area you still own. You haven't given it
to me.

Speaker 6 (01:34:39):
Do you have him?

Speaker 3 (01:34:39):
Put it under the cross. Remember, jes said, take up
your cross. I jumped up. I only had one shoe off.
I didn't care. I jumped up. I said, I screamed,
Addison's am. I said, Addison, he's not mine. Then I said, ah,
and he's not mine, I said, I said they're yours. God,
I'm only a steward of who belonged to you. I said,
you can do whatever you want. You want to take
him halfway or the world, take them away around the

(01:35:01):
world there. You want to take them home, You take
them home, you do whatever you want. Listen, devil, you're
not touching them. And you know what, I think, Addison
was about eight years old. I have never, not even
for three seconds, had fear for my children. And they're
not my children. I call them God's kids. That I was,

(01:35:22):
I'm a steward of I've never had fear for him since.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
So if you are afraid of losing your kids, you
are actually making them an idol, according to Jean BeVier,
and God could take your kids. You know. It's that
kind of thing. And this is, like I said, this
is this is the kind of stuff John Vivier teaches folks.
This is this is beyond the surface. I mean, you'll

(01:35:45):
you'll go on YouTube and you type in John BeVier
and you get his podcasts up, and you see stuff
like holiness, and you see stuff like you know, and
I mean, honestly, I'm watch his podcast. He points people
to the scriptures. He seems to have a very high
regard really, you know, he really elevates the scriptures on
his podcast. And so it's until you start really just

(01:36:07):
really watching and listen to him, it's it's really difficult
to know that just how bad of a teacher he is.
So Rick any final thoughts.

Speaker 6 (01:36:18):
I think, I think just looking back, you've seen that
everything is works based with this car, everything is works based,
and you're back under the door. And if you make
a mistake, God's going to exactly that's not a burden
I want to live. And I also don't want to
live under the burden of having to attain a level
before God's going to accept me for salvation. That's that's something.

(01:36:41):
And then and then Daniel, so under there's a there's
a theme underlying all of his teachings. If you if
you take a step back and you look at the
big picture, his mantra is the same as Bethel on
earth as it is in heaven. And there is absolutely
no room for suffering in his theology, no room whatever,

(01:37:01):
because if you think about it, if you suffered, you
haven't you know, and they believe in the power of
decrease and declarations. But if you if you suffered, in
his view, it's because you haven't given your pastor a
double portion. He really does teach that. He says that
when he goes to churches and people give double portions
there's an extra flow of miracles and salvations. So he's

(01:37:24):
tying the supernatural work of God the sovereign work of
early spirits. He ties that into how much people give despicable. So,
you know, that's a damning theology because if you suffer,
then you have to look, where have I gone wrong?
Just look at the apostle pause life. Where did he
go wrong? That he went angry, that he was naked,

(01:37:46):
that he had that he was shipped picked three times,
that he was out without earthly comforts, that he had
a thorn in the flesh. Where did he go wrong?
You see what happens if you go down this trail
of you know the formula. These guys actually work according
to the formula. If you do a God has to
do b et cetera. It's really a damaging theology. And

(01:38:07):
my heart just goes out for the people who are
suffering and think that this is in any way or
form a message from God that you know that you're
supposed to believe in. Because John Levie has heard from
the Holy Spirit of God, I said, son, so we
can clearly see that God has not spoken to this man.

Speaker 2 (01:38:26):
Well, Rick, thank you so much for taking the time
out we've been on this episode. Now we've been on
we've been recording that for almost two hours an our
almost an hour and forty five minutes. But I think
this is an important video. I think that people need
to see who, just who the Beviers are. And so,

(01:38:50):
like I said, it's just an honor having you on.
You do such great work over there at Famine and
the Land. And love your Facebook posts up with some
especially the ones with the Apostle Paul and the things
that the Apostle Paul doesn't say, those are great. And
your articles are stellar, and your YouTube channel is just great.

(01:39:11):
You have you have some really good teaching over there.
So I'll put a link, folks to everywhere you can
find Rick and and Famine in the Land. So again,
thanks thanks for coming on Rick. Amen, Amen, you too,
brother folks. I hope this video was helpful. If it was,
please I would ask you to share it with somebody
who may be caught up in John and Lisa Vir's teachings.

(01:39:34):
And Lord Willing, I'll see you next week. I'm gonna
do something a little bit different. I'm gonna close this
out with a final clip and that will be at watch.

Speaker 3 (01:39:42):
Now listen to what he feesians. The fourth chapter of
the eleventh verse says, it says this Jesus himself gave
some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to
be evangelis, some pastors and teachers. So notice the Lord
Jesus himself gives the leaders in the church the fivefold ministry.
And Jesus said, when you receive them, you're receiving me.

(01:40:04):
So that's what I was talking about earlier. When a
minister of the gospel, you're picking them up from the airport,
don't pick them up in a dirty car. Do you know.
I go to some churches. You know what they do.
They rent a brand new car to come pick me up.
They rent it for two days because they know that
car is gonna be clean. Are you with me? I
went to a church recently. They blew me away. We
got off a plane. We were walking out, and I

(01:40:24):
was with my assistants, and there were four guys there
with tuxedos, and they had two white limousines pick me up.
I looked at my guys, I said, guys, real quick,
go back and get my suit. I need to have
my suit because I had my jeans for that night's service,
and I thought, I am not gonna dishonor this church
by coming in with jeans. Are you with me? But
I looked at the way that they received me as

(01:40:45):
a man sent from heaven. It had nothing to do
with me. And I've proved this to you time and
time again, especially in the earlier sessions. But what happens
is is I get real excited when I go into
those churches because you know what I know is gonna happen.
They're gonna get blessed.

Speaker 6 (01:41:07):
Fer er Nehing

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