The Myth of a Sin-Free Christian: Responding to Kris Vallotton

Do Christians still struggle with sin after they’re saved? Or does salvation mean a believer can live without wrestling with the flesh? In this episode of the Lightbulb Ministries Podcast, Richard Moore, Rick Becker, and Daniel Long dig deep into the topic of sanctification.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
These passages of scriptures have never ever been interpreted this way.
And this is what NAR leaders and teachers will do.
It's very subtle, but they will take passages of scripture
that have been understood in a way to lean toward
their pelagian in this case Pelasianism.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
As Christians, we are to be mortifying the flesh. That
is just something that as a believer we're called to
do well. We are called Romansates says, to be conformed
into the image of Christ.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
The good news is that when we sin, we don't
have to have that horrible feeding and run away from God.
That's the time we need to run to God to
receive you forgiveness and and be washed.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Through through His word. Welcome to this episode of light

(01:11):
Bulb Ministries. Guys, our domes are shining brilliant today. I
think that's what the kids call glowing up. My kids
call it anyways, So, gentlemen, today quite taking on a
challenging topic here, we're taking on sin, the sin nature,
and what do teachers teach about this sin nature. Good morning,

(01:34):
good afternoon, or good night to all of you out there.
My name is Richard Moore. I'm going to host and
facilitate our discussion today from light Bulb Ministries. Light Bulb
Ministries is made up of three wonderfully glowing individuals, namely
Daniel Long over there furrowing his brow at us from
Long for Truth and over there in the good old

(01:57):
Us of a. And then we've got Rick Becker over
there on the other side from famine in the land
down there on the southern tip of the continent of
Africa keeping things together in South Africa. And myself, I'm
Richard Moore from Firm Foundation here in Germany. We all
together make up the wonderfully glowing light bulbs of light

(02:19):
Bulb Ministry. Gentlemen, how are y'all doing today?

Speaker 2 (02:23):
I am doing well, Richard. This is exciting. This is
our second episode, so I'm looking forward to many more.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, man, yeah, man, Rick, how you doing over there
in South? Oh?

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Good spring is about to ar off, So yeah, it's
all good in the Deep South.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
What are the times there? What are there times there?
Where you guys are at? I can tell you now
it's five it's six o'clock in the morning here, and
that's right right now.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
We're at New Yort day twelve pm. Richard and I
are the same time zone, so we both at midday.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
That's right, That's right. So gentlemen, we are taking on
this wonderful topic after checking in on how each other
is doing. I'm just really, you know, honestly, have to say,
the providence of God is so wonderful that he's brought
us three together. We've had really much interaction over the years.
In the past. I've been in lots of moderation groups

(03:19):
of Rick and now Dan as well. Appreciate y'all want
to do this first of all, and then and then
you know, taking on topics. We have great discussions in
the background preparing things. So today we've prepared what we're
going to call this sin, the sin nature, and what
false teachers teach about sin? Can I say that? Rick?

(03:41):
What do you think?

Speaker 4 (03:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:41):
That? Yeah? All right? Sorry, Dan, go ahead, you have no.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I was gonna say, yeah, that's that. No, that's That's
exactly what we're going to be talking about. And we're
going to be looking at specifically one teacher and that's
going to be Chris Vallentin because he has a lot
to say about sin and the sin nature.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Oh, good old Chris Valleton. kV over there. You know
what I got blocked on Twitter by Chris Vallatin. I's
called so offended. I was like, what did I even do?
I didn't even do anything, you know, but uh.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Did you comment on one of his posts? Is that
what happened?

Speaker 1 (04:14):
I'm not really sure. Man. I do talk about him
a lot because he is a false prophet. He has
falsely prophetsied quite a bit. Especially there was a big,
long false prophecy he had about Germany. He called the German,
the German chancellor a prime minister. We do not have
a prime minister and he said God told him that.
So I was just calling a spade a spade. I said, hey,

(04:36):
we don't have a prime minister. I think UK has
a prime minister, but not Germany. So people blogging anyways anyways,
But yes, we're going to cover Chris ballatsin today and
he talks quite a bit about Sin. I actually was
doing a little bit of research on my walking my
dog me and Milo. We're looking at Chris fallatsin clips

(04:58):
on the way and uh, I just searched Sin on
his channel, you know, and we have these uh search
tools that we can look up on YouTube, and I
mean I just came across hundreds of things where he's
talking about sin and the sin nature, and I think
we could pretty confidently say he denies that Christians have

(05:19):
a si nature. What do you say, Rick? I mean, Dan, sorry, Dan,
you were you were on there?

Speaker 2 (05:24):
No, no, no, no, And that's that's exactly what he does.
I mean, we're sitting here watching the same video as well,
all three of us, and uh, he's got this one
video called something about a haunted house or is your househount?
Is your house haunted? And that that's the one. So
in that he that's where we took the majority of

(05:46):
our clips from. And in that, yeah, he says that
we as Christians are not supposed well we we we
don't have a sin nature. Basically, we as Christians. You
you don't sin, Christians don't sin.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
I'm pretty sure sure you're right. And more than one way,
he says that we as Christians don't sin and probably
tends toward Pallagianism, that we don't have a sin nature.
So what do you say, Rick, what do you think
about that? Is that? Are we on the right track
there with that? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (06:14):
That's I mean, that's accurate. Just just look at the
whole philosophy of evangelism calling out the golden people. I mean,
if that's not a rtic, then I don't know. So,
you know, in their mind, you you know, we're worthy.
You know, we were worth dying for. There's gold in us,
and all we have to do is really change our
way of thinking. So, and I think it was his son,

(06:35):
Eric Johnson who once said, you know, we have to
come from the standpoint that man is inherently good.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
That's right, Yeah, without a doubt.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
They actually don't understand the depth of us sin and
how Christians struggle with sin.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, that's right. So Dan, you've got the controls over there. Brother.
Do we want to jump into our first clip? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Why not? This is this is one that you actually recommended, Richard.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
This is.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Him talking about David and Man, if people have not
seen this, I don't think they're gonna believe. It's so
hard to keep this great face because look, we're not
you know, we're not here to mock these guys, you know,
but this man should not be standing up teaching anyone.

(07:29):
And I think you'll see why after this.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
Cliff, Samuel, stop, do not look as man looks, but
look as God looks.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
And so he went.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
Down the line to all the sons, the seven sons,
and there was no one to anoint. You can imagine
that Samuel's maybe thinking, gosh, do I have the wrong address,
to have the wrong house? I was really sure this
was it. And he turns to Jesse and he says,
are these all your sons? He said, I have one
more son. He's with the sheep. And he says, well,

(08:04):
call him in, and he calls David in, and this
David's coming in.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
He says, this, it's it's.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
The Bible describes David as ruddy and redheaded. Just a
few minutes earlier, it describes Elib as head and shoulders
taller than all of Israel. In other words, the guy
who's supposed to be anointed don't look like a king.
And the Lord goes, that's the guy that's the king,

(08:32):
anoint him king? And David points out in the Psalms
he says, in sin I was conceived. Likely David was
conceived out of wedlock, probably why Jesse didn't invite him
to the inauguration. And what I'm getting at is that
the Lord often uses the disqualified. He often uses people

(08:53):
who don't look kingly. He often looks. He often uses
people who no one else thinks ought to be in
a position.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
What did he say, take, he was probably born conceived,
conceived out of lock.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Conceived out of wedlock. So you know, I was just
I was just walking with Milo, and I was like,
I almost fell all out. I was like, what I
have never ever heard anybody interpret the Psalm fifty one
is what he's talking about, where David says, uh, you
know in sin I was conceived. Now that has always

(09:31):
been understood, like historically always understood that David is talking
about his sin nature and he is after the sin
of with Bathsheba. He is describing in deeper detail how
he sinned and his sin nature that is is is
encompassing him, engulfing him. He is a sinner from conception.

(09:54):
And Chris Vallentin here he turns the interpretation of that
passage upside down on its head. He's trying to make
another point. But what I wanted to point out to
us is that these passages of scriptures have never ever
been interpreted this way. And this is what NAR leaders
and teachers will do. It's very subtle, but they will

(10:16):
take passages of scripture that have been understood in a
way to lean toward their pelagian in this case Pelasianism
that says that man does not have a sin nature,
and say, well, what does that mean? What could conceive
or what could he mean by in sin I was conceived?
He understands it to mean that he was conceived out

(10:38):
of wedlock. Yeah, and it doesn't make any sense. Like literally,
historically he was If someone's conceived that of wedlock, they're
typically conceived earlier than people get married. Yeah, but he
had Jesse had seven sons before David. David is the
youngest son. So even it just doesn't even it doesn't

(10:59):
even make any sense. So Rick, I have more stuff
to say about this, But Rick, why don't you jump
in before I go off the rails here.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Well, yeah, you're the one who found that clip. I mean,
it is just astounding. But perhaps on another note, I
just want to add there. You know, I've heard this
so many times. The Lord uses the disqualified. I think
was it Stephen Fertik who had a book Unqualified? I'm
not quite sure, but yes, the Lord does use the
disqualified in the sense that we were one sinners rescued

(11:31):
from the wrath of God. But if you want to
stand up like Chris Velaton and preach and be a pastor,
you have to be qualified and the two parts of
your life and your doctrine. And this clip just exposes
that he hasn't got a clue about this what the
scripture teaches basic discernment one oh one context, and he

(11:53):
is absolutely clueless with the context of the scriptures. And
as you say, Richard, just reading reading reading into the
scriptures threes and Lenz and his unsinful self.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, yeah, you know what what I see here actually
the qualify Glad you brought that up, because this was
a year ago. This clip was a year ago. And
I think he's actually trying to legitimize all his sin
disqualified buddies who are in the pulpit. Let's say, Mike Bickle,
Chris Reid, who else, give me some other names, guys

(12:25):
of people lately who have who have disqualified themselves, Firs,
Robert Morris, all these guys. So he's actually saying that.
I think he's running cover for his buddies and trying
to say, well, those guys aren't you know, it's not
necessary to be qualified, but even I just want to

(12:47):
go back to sorry, the interpretation of this passage Psalm
fifty one has never been understood that way. Nobody understands
it that way. And these guys consistently do this, and
they undermine regular and normal interpretations of Scripture to historically
understood and defining to speaking to their sin nature. For instance,

(13:10):
he's trying to say that or indicate that man doesn't
have a sin nature. What David obviously is indicating from
this because he was not conceived illegitimately, he's not a sorry,
a bastard son. He is the seventh, the eighth son
of Jesse. Actually, all the all the genealogies of Scripture

(13:31):
actually support this. They don't call him illegitimate. They call
him the son of Jesse. And and if he had
been illegitimate or born conceived out of wedlock, they would
have mentioned that because all the genealogies of Scripture point
to uh indications of sin rayhab right, Rick, you mentioned

(13:53):
other people in the genealogies that that were you know,
had sin sin backgrounds. Yeah, and so the tamar, thank you.
The genealogies don't pull any punches. They don't want sugar
coat stuff or whitewash things. They say the real truth.
And if David had been an illegitimate son, he would

(14:14):
have the genealogies all throughout Scripture would have said so.
And so Chris Valentin is wrong, and this is an
indication why he's a false teacher. He does this consistently.
They false falsify normal understandings of Scripture to point to
the qualification thing, to say that all pastors don't have

(14:35):
to be qualified. They can sin all they want, basically,
and or to show that to try to point to
people not having a sin nature. And you'll see throughout
this show that Chris Valatin believes we don't have a
sin nature and Christians don't have a sin nature either.
So I think I'm done with that. It's just shocking.
I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
And really, you know, Psalm Psalm fifty one is just
an absolutely beautiful psalm of David's repentance. So to to
to take that psalmon just say something just absolutely and
I'm sorry to say this, but that was just a
stupid statement. To say something so ridiculous as as that. Hey,

(15:15):
let me let me ask you guys, would you would
you guys why don't we go over and just read
the Psalm and just kind of show what's how beautiful
the Psalm is. And and I'll get one of you
guys to read it if you've got your bibles open,
and we'll just follow it along here as we go.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
What do you think unless you want me to right here,
can you jump in and read that you have?

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Yeah, I'll read it on the screen.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, sure, okay, great.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Have mercy on me, o, God, according to your stepfast love,
according to your abundant mercy. Blot out my transgressions, Wash
me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever
before me against you. And you only have our sinned
and done what is evil in your sight, so that

(16:05):
you may be justified in your words and blameless in
your judgment. Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and
in sin did my mother conceive me. But you delight
in truth, in the inward being, and teach me wisdom
in the secret heart. Purge me with his sip, and
I shall be clean. Wash me, and I shall be

(16:25):
whiter than snow. Let me hear joy and gladness. Let
the bones that you have broken rejoice. Hide your face
from my sins and blot out all my iniquities. Create
in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a
right spirit within me. Cast me not away from your presence,
and take not your holy spirit from me. Restore to

(16:47):
me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with
the willing spirit. Shall I continue?

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yea, yeah, geve God.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Then I will teach transgresses your ways, and sinners will
return to you. Deliver me from blood guiltness, Oh God,
Oh God, of my salvation, and my tongue will sing
aloud of your righteousness. Oh Lord, open my lips and
my mouth will declare your praise. For you will not
delight in sacrifice, or I would give it. You will

(17:16):
not be pleased with a burnt offering. The sacrifices of
God are broken, spirit are broken, and contrite heart. Oh God,
you will not despise. Do good tosign and your good
pleasure build up the walls of Jerusalem. Then you will
delight in right sacrifices, in burnt offerings and whole offerings.
Then bulls will be offered on your altar.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
That's a beautiful psalm. I mean that is just for
your psalm to show that even in some of the
most heinous and unfortunately, though you know, at least and
I know you guys have probably seen this as well.
But unfortunately the guys like Chris Vaalatan and others will
take this psalm and twisted to mean that this just

(18:02):
because David sinned, you know, in this heinous way, and
because he was still a ruler in Israel even after
a sin. That means that even you know that that
anyone can come back into the polepit after they sin,
you guys, guys.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
I think it's because they focus on the anointing right.
Qualifications for leaders in the in the in the church
age are is not anointing. And they look at David
being anointed as king, and he was the leader of Israel.
He was anointed, and so thus peoples, you know, leaders
in the Church can fall into sin and and and

(18:38):
still be restored and be anointed and still lead even
though if you look at David sin and the consequences
of his sin for his leadership in Israel was awful,
was an awful, awful consequence, right, and so you know,
but that's not the new Testament leadership principle. The New

(18:58):
Testament leadership for pastors, elders, and deacons is found in
Titus and one Timothy, uh, second second Timothy, Sorry, and
a few other places. And those are the qualifications. And
if someone has broken those qualifications, they are no longer qualified.
Not that they're you know, they're no longer annointed or

(19:18):
not can't be Christians, or can't be restored to the faith.
They mix up, they convolute and conflate being restored to
the faith and being restored to ministry. No one may
be restored to ministry who is disqualified. And I wanted
to notice, Hey, can you put the some fifty one
backup on the screen there? Go back to the verses,

(19:38):
and I want to show you that Chris is so wrong.
Go back to the verses of iniquity. In iniquity, I was,
I was. I think it's verse it you and you blameless. Uh.
I was bought for verse verse five. Yeah, the hold
I was bought fourth in iniquity and incinded my mother
conceive me. So he can't be right because that just

(20:02):
that phrase. He's taken that phrase in sin to my
mother conceived me. You could maybe interpret that and say
that that was him being born out of wedlock. But
I was brought forth in iniquity. He's describing the entire context. Yeah,
shows that it can't he can't be right.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, this is all talking about his repentance from sin
and how deep his sin goes.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
The deepest sin goes, It goes to the core of
his sin nature. In Adam we all sinned, but in Christ.
So hopefully the thing you can get today from us, guys,
is in Adam all sinned, but in Christ all have
been made righteous. We are maybe we don't bring it
up quite yet, but simul Eustace at pecatur we are

(20:46):
simultaneously sinners and righteous in Christ. So, Rick, what's your thoughts.
You haven't spoken in a while.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
My mind's working over time. I think you made he
actually made it. Yeah, you made such a good point
that to them, it's all about the anointing, because how
many times have you, guys heard you know the verse
in Hebrews the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable,
and they actually tie that to the spiritual gifts, to
the sign gifts. So that's right, that's right, I think

(21:17):
Matthew seven. You Bill Johnson teaches that the people that
the Lord says depart from me. I never knew you,
those people who operated in the prophetic and signs and
wonders that Jesus Christ says to them one day depart
from me. I never knew, Bill Johnson. Is they were
performing true miracles. And that's the high stakes that they

(21:38):
put on the anointing or I actually want to call
it not the annointing because a third force, because they
do treat the Holy Spirit as a third force, because
they teach that you can you can buy and sell
and teach and practice the gifts, you know, and take risks.
Sir Richard, I'm so glad you brought that up. That's
a good point. They value the actually the anointing or
the force above God himself.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Ye certainly, yeah, I would say too. You know that
they you know, with this anointing, all Christians are anointed
the same in Christ we are all and and it's
connected to our salvafic nature, the nature of God's salvafic work.
We are anointed ones. And they but they say anointing

(22:22):
is power. They equate anointing with power, and that's just
not I mean, there's nowhere in scripture that anointing is
connected to some sort of special extra special power or
Zapparuski that you can do on people like Benny Hen
or somebody. I mean, there's just that's just not a scripture.
There's not a scripture that it connects the annoyting like that.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
But but John does connect that anointing in context to
one thing, and that is ironically spotting false teachers. Yeah,
so that nobody can be It's funny that the people
you know, transferring an parting and selling anointings, if you
actually have the anointing, you'll know exactly that they are

(23:05):
wolves in sheep's clothing, but they don't see the rony.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Unfortunately, no one thing I wanted to bring up with
you mentioned with the calling work, the gifts and call
of God are irrevocable. That's Roman's not I believe. Actually,
just to give a quick correction, if I'm not mintaken,
maybe I'm not. But it's not talking about the spiritual
gifts at all. It's talking about Israel. The gifts vocable

(23:29):
is meaning that he can't revoke his covenant to Israel.
These people, they don't even know how to understand the
Bible whatsoever. So exactly. Anybody who says the gifts and
call of irrevocable are is about the gifts of the
Holy Spirit, meaning that this false teacher who has abused
Essay people the gifts and call his anointing is irrevocable. No,

(23:49):
it's talking about Israel folks. All right, yep, Dan, jump
absolutely jump in and say it there.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
No, no, no, I was you know, you're absolutely right.
I don't have much to add to any of that,
you know, it's just it's just about well, I wanted
to before we do that. Is it okay to put
that Valetin quote on this on the screen because in
the opening we we mentioned that, you know, he doesn't

(24:18):
believe we have us in nature, and I think this
quote here might kind of uh, you know, might kind
of know that.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
It says I.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
He's quoting. This is from his book Spirit Wars. I
was telling the class that we are no longer sinners,
but instead have become saints through the power of the Cross.
To illustrate my point, I said, there is a river
that flows through our souls and it runs towards the throne.
If we don't paddle, we will end up at God's house.

(24:53):
Whatever that means you have to make an effort to sin,
because it is no longer your nature. A tall young
man in the middle of the room just could not
take it any longer. He abruptly stood to his feet, and,
with all the passion he could muster, shout it out.
Have you ever had a day go by that you

(25:13):
didn't sind? Yes, of course I have, I shot back.
How about how about it?

Speaker 1 (25:22):
He's a liar, he sins, right there, Sorry, he's sin
right there, he's a liar. The Bible stays he's a
liar and the truth is not in him.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
All right, how about a week? No, no, you're good.
How about a week? He pressed, He pressed, staring me
right in the eyes with a stern look. Sure, I
continued smiling at him. In fact, I've gone several weeks
in a row without sinning, So I mean, come on.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Watch out, don't watch out, don't stand next flip, watch
out for the lightning.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
No, look, look, it is true. Okay. As Christians, we
are to be mortifying the flesh. That is just something
that as a believer we're called to do. We're called
we are called romans. Eate says, to be conformed into
the image of Christ. All right, So yeah, we should
be putting to death sin, we should be killing sin.

(26:12):
But to think that we as Christians don't struggle with sin,
that we don't fight, you know, have have you know,
have a sin in nature, have a sin living in
our members that we have to fight every day and
sometimes fail, and sometimes often fail. It's just it's it's

(26:34):
just not reality. I mean, it really isn't. It's very
frustrating to hear because one of the and I know
I've you guys know this, but one of the most
difficult things for me, especially in my early Christian life,
was the assurance of salvation, trying to find assurance. You know,
how do I know I'm saved? And that's because of

(26:55):
the battle with sin, you know. And I think there's
a lot of Christians in that boat. And so I
hope this, I hope this episode will be really helpful
and beneficial to them.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
That's a great point, Dan. We we want to be
life giving here in this episode and to to help
people find the assurance of their salvation because we do
live with this simultaneously righteous and sinner, and and we
have that sin nature that is in us that that
feels like or can can feel like then we're not saved? Well,

(27:30):
how come I keep sinning? How come you know that?
How can I be saved? That I keep sinning? And
we will live with this sin, sin entangled body until
we take that step into glory.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
So yeah, especially if we're struggling with a particular sin,
you know, no matter what it is, there there is.
We're all born with a you know, I don't a
besetting sin. Maybe maybe is that that that how we
should Is that how we should say it? I don't know,
but we all have to deal with the three, the

(28:03):
three enemies in our lives that Luther calls the Unholy Trinity,
the world, the flesh, and the devil, And that is
just that's a hard fight. And without the Holy Spirit
and dwelling in us and giving us the power to
mortify the flesh, it's hopeless. Anyway, I digress.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
I I sorry, jump in there. You have some thoughts,
I think probably.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Huh yeah, Well, well I think you know the root
of the problem. And one of the biggest things we
see in the visible Church, well, hordes of false convits.
And why are there so many false converts? Well, because
can you imagine going to Let's say you're visiting Bethel,
right and you go there for service, so you're going

(28:44):
to start off with mesmerizing music, then the offer corps
where you'll be asking and trusting God for checks in
the mail and basically asking God for to kill your
family members so that you can get an inheritence because
they say inheritances, right, yeah, And then perhaps the sermon
is on how to take dominion in your sphere of society.

(29:08):
You know, it's if you're an actor, you know you're
going to become one of the best in Hollywood or
whatever the case. And then you know, perhaps just finding
rounding off to tell you that you don't have to
live with a poverty spirit and you know, God wants
you healthy and wealthy, and you can take dominion of
your disease. And after that, which will probably take about
two hours, you'll have one minute article. Where So after

(29:32):
the service, folks, if you want to repent or change
your way of thinking, pray this prayer after me. Right,
So now tick, they've ticked the box. They've prayed the prayer.
Now they are Christians. They are born again. That's the foundation.
No law, no gospel neither. They're not going to get
the care. They're not going to get the gospel. So
that is how they start what they think is the

(29:53):
Christian walk, and no wonder, after a couple of years
many of them say, well I tried Christianity. It didn't
work for me. Well, it does work, but you went
to christian And that's the real problem. So how can
you expect these people in that environment to be a
way of sin there? It's impossible they had.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
So basically you're saying that false Christians are infusing the
church and they believe that Christianity is supposed to be shiny,
happy people. Basically, yeah, and take dominion of everything that's
not the Christian faith exactly. You're right.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Do you guys want to move on to the next clip.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Let's jump in, go for it all, right, here we go.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
How come you're not a slave descent? Because the old
man that was a slave to sin died. He's dead
dead dead dead dead dead dead forty four times in
Romans five, six, seven, and eight it says you're dead
dead people don't sin.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
While it is true we are dead, Yeah, we died
with Christ. That doesn't mean that we don't sin. We sin.
Here's the let me. Can I just jump in here
really quick, Richard and just just do it? No, No,
here's the thing. What about You're exactly right. This is

(31:12):
a Pelagian view because the David talks about our hidden sin,
since we don't even know that we're doing, you know
what I mean, sins that we can't even see. Now,
maybe maybe these guys don't mean that, but our sin
is it just goes so deep that you know, we

(31:33):
sin all the time without even realizing it, which is
why we have to have that imputed righteousness of Christ
given to us as a gift. That's why we have
to have Christ's righteousness covering us, covering our sin, you know,
have have his good works accounted to us, because that's

(31:53):
oh man, this is it. And for him to say
Christians don't sin? And well what about what about his
false teaching?

Speaker 1 (32:06):
That's what I want?

Speaker 2 (32:06):
That's you know, his false prophecies? Is that was that
not a sin?

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (32:12):
I don't know, man, this guy, this guy, It just
frosts me to listen to them, these lives. Yeah, no, no,
it just it damages people. It really does. Nobody who
has struggled so much with assurance, with with knowing or
not whether or not I'm a Christian, whether or not

(32:33):
I'm genuinely saved. That that for somebody like that, that
is extrectly damaging.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
Yeah, yeah, you know that. I would say, I would
say this did people don't wrestle with sin, And the
reasoning we are wrastling with sin is because we are
love in Christ and we are not away lucky. You've
gone from living your life and enjoying us into becoming
a way that you have now got three enemies, the world,

(33:02):
the fish, and the devil. And you know, it's a
war that will end when we receive the adoption of
our bodies, when Christ returns, or when we depart and
we meet Christ. That is when the war against us
Sin will finally end. And that's what Paul said he
is looking forward to exactly. We are groaning for that.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I would just kind of wonder what
Chris would say about Romans five twelve and on about
how sin actually end of the world. Did Sin end
of the world? And I just read it real quick. Therefore,
just as sin came into the world through one man,
and death through sin, and so death spread to all

(33:46):
men because all sinned for sin, Yeah, indeed was in
the world through the law, was before the law was given.
But sin is not counted where there is no law.
Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those
whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam. They
had the law, That's why the transgression was different. Yeah,

(34:08):
who was a type of the ones to come. But
the free gift is not like the trespass. For if
many died through one man's trespass, much more have the
grace of God and the free gift, by grace of
that one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for many. And the
free gift does not like the result of that one
man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation,

(34:31):
but the free gift following many trespasses bought justification. And
then he goes on, I want to read here we
go five nineteen. For as by one man's disobedience there
were may many were made sinners, So by one man's
obedience many will be made righteous or have That imputation

(34:51):
doesn't mean we will never sin again. We will only
not sin again once we receive our resurrected, glorified body.
And so yeah, I wonder what he'd say about that.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Well, one of the things that I've noticed in what
we'll show I think I've got I think I've got
a clip of it is he does say that we
can sin, but uh, you know, and we'll look at
this clip later on, but it's so serious for a
Christian to sin that we need an attorney. And he

(35:25):
talks about Christ gives us just a little room, just
a little room to sin. And so you see how
important you know, Christian's not sinning is. And look again,
we're not saying that Christians should send Paul or John says, brothers,
I write this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have one who speaks

(35:46):
or an an advocate who speaks to the Father in
our defense. So yeah, it's true. But the fact of
the matter remains is that we all are at war
with sin. And Paul talks about war. And if you
are not warring against the flesh like you said Rick
you earlier, you're not a Christian. Christians war against the flesh,
you know they were. If you are comfortable, If a

(36:07):
person is comfortable living in their sin, and they can
do it with no problem, and there's no conviction. You
just there's no way you can. You can say that
you can.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
You're just not a Christian if you.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Can live comfortably, you know, and and have no problem sinning.
John says that god seed remains in us, so we
don't continue to sin, and we'll look at that because
he goes to those passages. But Christians war with sin.
That's my point. Christians fight and struggle with sin, and
sometimes we do fall. But falling into sin isn't the

(36:41):
same thing as living walking in sin and being comfortable
in our sin, and and enjoying our sin and going
to church and saying, like we said in the beginning,
you know what, God and I have an understanding. I
love to sin and God loves to forgive. It's not
that kind of It's not. Yeah, if you say that,

(37:02):
if you really, really truly think that you're not, you're
not a Christian anyway. I decorate one.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Paul said it. Paul said it, So shall we sin
that grace may increase, So His grace abounds in our sin.
He continues to give grace. I mean, we have a patient.
We have a patient God. If we're really, really honest.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
We really do.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, I really do. But shall we go on sinning
like with that attitude that you just expressed, and and say, uh,
so that grace may increase, I want more grace. I'm
just going to keep on sinning. May it never be
Paul says, right, so, right, hey, a point of oh,
go ahead, one quick point of moderation here. I think
most of these clips, if I'm not mistaken, from the

(37:41):
entire show here, are taken from one eighteen minute clip,
isn't that right, guys? Yeah, that one long eighteen minute clip.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, and it's off of Chris Vallentin's channel, and it's
called is Your House Haunted? And if anybody wants to
watch it, you know, I'll put.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
The work to that. Please put Lincoln, We'll put the
link in the description, and you must go look at this.
The thing is full of contradictions. And he does, in
large part, claim that we do not sin anymore as Christians.
And you saw the quote that Dan provided for us here.
This is Pelagianism, folks, And he teaches by the Thank

(38:22):
you Rick as well for pointing that out about their
gold digging thing. We're digging out the gold, that there
is no gold in our sinful nature we have a
sinful nature. We are. The term total depravity was first
sort of thought up by Augustine and later sort of
filled out more fully by the reformers. But total depravity

(38:46):
is our situation. We are totally depraved. Not that we
can be as bad as we could be, we're all
totally evil, wicked, murderer, sinners that should be in prison,
but that we are in ourselves so depraved that we
could not make ourselves spiritual. We could not create ourselves
any kind of righteousness in us. Right. We are dead

(39:11):
in our sins and trespasses, and God must make us
alive together with Christ by his powerful spirit. And that's
kind of the just a real quick summary of the
total depravity idea. And he absolutely does not believe it.
There's no way heeople lose total pravity, don't you think, Rick,
There's no way. There's no way.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
Maybe maybe I can give you an illustration. I used to
I lived in and worked in a farm once, and
we had this shed outside and very often not going
maybe early morning or late afternoon, and there'd be a
ray of light coming through the windows at the top.
Now obviously the shed's full of you know, hay and
there were a few chickens there, and as soon as

(39:53):
that beam of light came through the window, I would
see all these kinds of dust particles in there. Not
Bethel's cloud, I'm not claiming that, but you know, particles
of dust in the air that I wouldn't have seen
unless the light was shining on it. Likewise, let me
give another illustration. You walk into it. You know, sometimes
in South Africa we have power cuts. We call it

(40:14):
load shedding. And you know, if all you've got is
a candle, it'll sort of gently illuminate the room and
you can make out the objects you can get around
the house. But as soon as the power comes back
on and you've got all the lights glowing, you can
see every little bit of dirt. You can see if
the chairs out of place, if there's a pillar on
the ground with the dog made a mess. So all

(40:34):
of a sudden you see things that you didn't see before.
Those things have always been there, right, So when we
get born again, when we saved, and now you as
a believer, you're maturing in your sanctification and you start
seeing things that have always been there. But because the
Holy Spirit is working in you and showing you your sin.

(40:54):
You know, very often you can fall into that works mode. Oh,
I can't be a Christian, as I think, Richard, you
said earlier, start seeing your sin, and Dan as well.
You say that now now you think you're not saved
because you've seeing so many more sins. But that's because
the honey is pretty sanctifying. That is a good thing,
and that in turn drives you to what to confess
your sins and to be forgiven.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Absolutely, that is such a great Those are some great examples.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Rich Ricky. They're just good examples.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
You guys want to move on to the next clip.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Let's jump into the next clip. Here we go.

Speaker 4 (41:26):
First, John one six. If we say that we have
fellowship with him and yet walk in darkness, we lie
and do not practice the truth. But if we walk
the light us, he himself is in light. We have
fellowship with one another, and the blood.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Of Jesus's son cleanses us from all sin.

Speaker 4 (41:42):
If we say that we have no sin, we're deceiving ourselves.
You're like, oh, there, it is right there, Okay, let's finish,
and the truth is not in us. If we confess
our sins, He's faithful and righteous to forgive our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say
we have not sin, we make him a liar, and
his words not in us. There it is right there,
my little children. I'm writing these things to you. Next

(42:03):
verse that you may not sin if anyone sins.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Did you get that?

Speaker 4 (42:11):
If if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ, the Righteous. Okay, we're gonna read more of
John just to really get so you'll get this. But
he's saying, if you say that you don't sin, you're
a liar. What's he talking about? You can't come to
Jesus as a non sinner. You can't say I don't

(42:33):
you know. Listen, I'd love to come to you, but
I didn't sin. He's saying, no, you can't do that.
You have sinned. If you say that you you haven't sinned,
you're a liar. But once you receive Christ, what's supposed
to happen. You're not supposed to send anymore.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Okay, So that he botched that passage up so bad,
it just it's ridiculous. Let me let me ask you
guys a question. Who is John talking to? Is he
talking to you unsaved people or is he talking to
saved people? In First John, he's talking to you.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
He's talking to believers.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
There, and he's saying, if we and he's putting himself
in there as well, if we claim we have no sin.
Can we just run over to that really quickly? Just
take a look at it, Look at that, all right?
So this is it right here? You know, he starts out,
let's see if I can get my computer to work

(43:30):
here he and he calls them little children throughout this epistle,
so we know he's talking about about his Christians. But
this is what he says here. One of you guys
want to read that.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Uh, so we're talking about this is First John? Uh,
the ending one? Yeah, Chapter one, first five. This is
the message we have heard from him and proclaimed to you,
that God is light, and in him there is no
darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him,
while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not
practice the truth. But if we walk in light as

(44:09):
He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from
all sin. If we have no if we say we
have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is
not in us. If we confess our sins, he is
faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to
cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have

(44:31):
no sin, we make him a liar, that his word
is not in us. Just real quick, I want to
before we go on the ifs are qualifiers. He is saying,
not that you know, if by chance, maybe one time
and a mother. He's saying, is the eventuality that we do,
It is an eventual. And then he says it at

(44:52):
the end. If we say we have not sinned, we
make him a liar. He's you know, he's saying, in
the event that you do sin, you will sin. And
if you say that you don't have sin, you're lying.
So Chris puts it in the in the in the
Chris puts it in the positive, and John's writing in

(45:12):
the negative, in the sense that it's going to happen.
It's an eventuality, not if by chance, by some random happenstance,
you know.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, And notice the pronouns we if we.
John puts himself in there as well. He's not saying
if you, He says if we and he's talking to again,
talking to Christians. And then look what he says here
we're talking about little children. He says, my little children,
I am writing these things to you that you may
not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an

(45:43):
advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Righteous. So the
fact that if you're a Christian, you know you don't sin, well,
that would be wonderful.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
And as when we get into the escton, when we
walk into the new world, we're not going to have
when we have our glorified bodies, we're not going to
have to deal with sin anymore. But in this life
we are simil ustas at picat at the same time
righteous and sinner.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Real quick back a big to the text before. In
the end of chapter one. Another qualifier that shows that
John is talking about we do do this, we will sin.
It's it's in verse go up a little bit to
verse the end of the chapter. At verse if we
confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive

(46:34):
us of our sins and cleanse us from all on righteousness.
So he is saying, if you sin, if we say
we have no sin, we're deceived. And if then you
do sin, then we confess. He's giving us a pattern
for Hey, how about this restoration the thing they love
to talk about all the time, but they don't they
don't confess, They skip the they skip the step of

(46:56):
confession and move right to restoration. Am I right?

Speaker 4 (46:59):
Rick?

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Exactly?

Speaker 4 (47:02):
You know?

Speaker 3 (47:02):
And and just to show that this is not a
if as in like every what is Chris Vellerton say
you can go weeks without sinning? How did how did
Jesus Christ teach his disciples to pray? Give us our
daily bread? And what forgive us? So you want to
tell me our daily bread is referring to once in

(47:24):
a blue moon? And forgive us our trespasses? Is you
know the same? No, it's daily. We need our daily bread.
And unless you can honestly say that every single day,
from when you wake up to when you go to bed,
you have loved God perfectly with your whole heart and
mind and strength. And let's not talk about sins of

(47:44):
oh mission, you know, because Jenny, they just talk about
sins of commission. But if you can say you've kept
that day and pleased God perfectly and fulfilled the law perfectly,
and you know, if you can say that you've done
that whole that perfectly every day, then basically you did
you deceived because none of us can keep that standard.
It's impossible.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
So that is go ahead, go ahead, d I'm sorry, No, no,
I was going to say, that is such a good
such a good reminder. The Lord's prayer forgive us our
treuspasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. That
Jesus is talking telling his disciples to pray that teaching,

(48:26):
teaching his disciples those who are his followers to pray that. Anyway,
I digress, ahead, Richard, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
I was just going to jump onto a sense of
comission and omission that Rick brought up there. So just
in case you're not familiar with what that is. Sin
of comission is meant to be sort of an active,
willing sin against God. You know that lying is wrong,
You're can you're convicted in your mind that I'm allout
to lie, and you go ahead and do it. Anyways, Yeah,
that's a sin of commission. O. Mission is sort of well,

(48:54):
I omitted the thing. I did not know. I did
not have it in my head that one of the
ten commandments is now shot you know, not bare false witness.
And I did it anyways. And then I came to
later and I read the scription and said, oh wait,
that's a sin. And I had done that yesterday, you
know so. But these I had a professor I was

(49:15):
went to a Bible College that was Kessick, the Kassick
movement k E. S W I c K. For anybody
wants to look into. It was a movement sort of
out of out of the brothers. Oh help me out, guys,
the brothers that wrote lots of hymns and did revivals
back in the day. Wesley brothers, Charles and John Wesley.

(49:38):
Sorry about that, but they taught this victorious Christian living concept,
which I do hold to a little bit. I believe
that we ought to live consistently victorious over sin as Christians,
as John talks about right there. But this one professor
stood up in our class in ethics and sanctification class
in Bible College and said that he had not committed

(49:59):
a sin of commission against God in forty years. And
there I am like, Uh, anybody else got a question?
I got a question. Who says he has no sin
is a liar and the truth is not in us.
He did end up retracting that statement later, but yeah,

(50:20):
this is this is, this is prevalent in the Kessick
movement and in the charismatic n Nar movement that we basically,
like Chris says, can live a week without sin. I
mean I want to actually ask him, then, well, what
happened at that that week sin? Once you realize that
you had sinned at that time a week later, did
you confess? What did you do? You know? Yeah? Yeah,

(50:42):
so yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
Once when when we are saved, when God in his
mercy saves us, and we know that we are imputed
with the righteousness of Christ, and instantly we are justified.
But then as we walk in our Christian life, we sin,
we stumble, we fall. So why do we have to
ask for forgiveness when we've already been forgiven of our past, present,

(51:04):
and future sins. And so Daniel and I were just
having a discussion and saying, well, you know, it's important
because we have something called a conscience, and when we
sin against God. You, as a believer, when you sin,
you know it, right, And so I don't know about you,
but on us sin, you know, I feel bad and
I feel guilty, and I feel terrible, and I feel

(51:25):
like I feel like Adam and even the garden of Eden.
I just want to run and hide from God. But
thank God, we can boldly approach the throne of grace.
So what does that confession of sin do. It doesn't
change our justification, no, but it affects our sanctification, and
it washes and cleanses our conscience so that we can
continue to have unhindered.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Fellowship of God without that.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Stain and that feeling guilty and feeling unworthy. And so
it's almost like you know, perhaps you've heard, but people
say we even as believers, we need to hear the
Gospel over and over and over. And that is one
of the reasons. That is one of the reasons. Because
we forget, we forget. We forget not only the depth
of our sin and our propensity to sin, but we

(52:12):
forget the grace and mercy and the depth and incredible
forgiveness of God who takes our sins and removes him
as far as the east is from the west. But
the good news is that when we sin, we don't
have to have that horrible feeling and run away from God.
That's the time we need to run to God to receive,
you know, forgiveness and be washed through through His word

(52:34):
as well, you know, and so that we can don't
have that unhindered broken fellowship with God. It's not necessary.
Don't punish yourself as a believer when you sin. Christ
has taken that punishment. But we have to go to
Him in our time of need and receive that forgiveness.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Yeah, you know that that is that is so good.
We are completely and totally justified as good in Christ.
All of the all of our sins have been forgiven.
Every single sin, past, present, in future has been forgiven.
We have been given Christ's righteousness. It has been credited

(53:14):
to our accounts. The works that Christ did for us
are counted as our works. Okay, So all of our
sins are forgiven, and so when we do sin, it
violates our conscience. Even though all of our sins are forgiven,
it violates our conscience. And like you were saying, Rick, God,

(53:35):
God wants us to confess so that our conscience can
be cleansed. It's not that He hasn't already forgiven that sin,
because that's one of the future sins that was forgiven.
But it's for our sake that our consciences can be
cleansed and we can we can breathe again. And that's
really good that you brought that up. That that's why
Christians need the Gospel all the time, all the time.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Okay, So, Rick, appreciate you bringing up that portion about
our concients. And I think Paul is talking about his
conscience in Romans seven and eight and going into eight.
But at the end of Roman seven, I think he's
we've all talked about that this week that except Rick.
Rick thinks that Roman seven is before Christ. But he

(54:17):
was joking. He was he was joking about that. He
was pulling our leg I mean, his dead pen was perfect.
We were talking and he was talking. He said, I
believe one hundred percent that Roman seven is before Christ.
And I was like, wait what.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
That was nearly the end of light Bulb Ministries. We
lost it a whole few year.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Was exactly. I was like, wait, are we over here
over before we started? No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, But actually, yes,
Roman seven and eight was a hot topic discussion in
Bible College when I was in Bible college. I think
probably for you, Rick, and you know, it's been a
hot topic hot topic. But we've all three agree that
I think Roman seven is talking about his life after Christ,

(54:58):
because he described his desire for righteousness and the desire
for the law. But this evil is working close at
hand here, it says it in Romans seven twenty one.
So I find it to be a law that when
I want to do right, evil lies close at hand.
So the person who is regenerate does not want to
do right and not want to obey the law. So

(55:19):
for I delight in the law my inner being, he says,
but I see in my members another law, waging war
against the law of my mind and making me captive
to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Oh,
wretched man that I am, Who will deliver me from
this body of death? Who will deliver us? Folks? Thanks
God God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord, he delivers us.

(55:43):
So then I find myself serving the law with God
in my mind. But in my flesh, my flesh is
here still I still live with this thing my earth
suit serves the law of sin. And then he says
this in Romans one. And for you Christian, there is
therefore now no condom for those who are in Christ Jesus,
so our consciences. Rick, You're right, we can live with

(56:05):
a clear conscience when we confess our sins. He is
faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse our
our consciences, and we can say with confidence, then there
is no condemnation for those who are in Christ, Jesus,
because who has saved us from this body of death.
Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ, our Lord. So guys,

(56:29):
we've been going at it for an hour and we've
got several clips to go, and so we're gonna have
to cut it off because we got other appointments today.
I'm going out with my wife and family for her
birthday birthdays on Monday. So we're gonna go to the
don't get to do that a lot, Yeah, I don't.
We don't get to go to the movie theater a
lot because it's kind of a chore in Germany, you know,

(56:51):
you gotta. Yeah, But anyway, so we're gonna go enjoy that.
So let's wrap it up for today and we're gonna finish.
We're gonna have a part two for this. This would
be great, and we'll finish up our clips that we
have and do it next month. We're trying to put
out content once a month between the three of us
getting our schedules together.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
So any closing thoughts, guys, Yeah, we Richard, you were
going to mention some resources. I think having some resources
at the end of this would be would be good.
You were talking about some resources you were going to mention,
and we can mention it absolutely part two as well.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Yeah, once you go ahead, Rick, and then I'll mention
my resources.

Speaker 3 (57:31):
I just wanted to give a quote from J. C.
Ral and he wrote this, Christ is never fully valued
until sin is clearly seen. We must know the depth
and malignity of our disease in order to appreciate the
great physician. I just I just love that quote because
you know, the more we are, the more we are

(57:52):
aware of the depth of our sin. At the same
time we are aware of the vastness of the forgiveness
and mercy of God, and then we really value Him
and we really value the Gospel. We don't value crossed
by people finding the gold in us or but how
awesome we think we are. We value crossed by real
is realizing how far we were from God and in

(58:13):
His mercy and grace, you rescued us.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Amen.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Amen, really good, Richard. You had some resources that you wanted.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
To Yeah, before I do the resource, so I had
a thought you know about Yeah, especially that first clip
that we looked at. You know, what's the problem with
reinterpreting scripture like that and saying that that, you know,
kind of going against the proper interpretation that we have
a sin nature. What this does and what Chris does

(58:42):
and other people like this do that they say we
have no sin anymore. They hijack the sanctification process. And
anyone who says we no longer have a sin nature
disables and derails the sanctification process, and that process is
interrupted people's thinking because it's unnecessary. You don't need to

(59:03):
mortify something that doesn't exist anymore or that's already dead.
So if you do not have a sin nature any longer,
then why do we need to put to death the
deeds of the body, as Paul says in Roman's aid
or or he definitely hints at Pelagianism here, And you know, so,
what what does this do in the end? It it

(59:24):
takes the sin nature out and you don't need to
actually work on anything. So his hearers who listen to him.
I'm good, say I'm basically say I'm good. So let's
move on and get to the get to the real
stuff of being like Jesus and doing the greater works
and miracles and all that stuff, right, but which they

(59:45):
never do. Yeah, exactly, Well there's that. There's that too,
but yeah, so I just thought, you know the clip,
it makes a difference that he does this and diminishes
the sin nation because it hijacks sanctification. You must mortify
the flesh a propos, mortify the flesh. There's a book,

(01:00:07):
so the resource I wanted to recommend, where Mortification of
Sin and Believers by John Owen. That's a relatively quick read,
but it's also Old English, so it might be tough.
Another one is really well written and maybe a little
more modern English, is J. C Ryle's Holiness. It's nature, hindrances,
difficulties and roots. And I believe you can get those

(01:00:30):
all kind of via pdf online if you look around.
So Holiness by J. C Ryle and of the Mortification
of Sin and Believers by John Owen, if you need
all that that old old English.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Yeah, and there's a book that I wanted to recommend
as well that deals with Romans chapter seven. It's an
exegetical treatment of Romans chapter seven. And it is this
book right here. It's called the the Storm. I don't
know if he can see it well through the camera,
but The Eye in the Storm by Michael Middendorf. He's

(01:01:06):
also the author of the Romans two volume Concordia Romans
Commentary series Romans one through eight and Romans nine through sixteen.
Now that this book, by the way, is really it's
Greek heavy. I mean, but if you can back, if
you don't know Greek very well, you can skip through
the Greek and just read it. He does a he

(01:01:27):
goes through. He not only does he exegate all of
Roman seven, but he takes Romans as a whole and
talks about why Paul must be talking about. The book
is called The Eye in the Storm. The I is
Paul speaking of himself as a Christian? Or is Paul
speaking of himself as a Pharisee before he was a Christian?

(01:01:50):
And he makes a solid argument that Paul is speaking
of himself as a believer and his struggle, ongoing struggle
with sin in the Christian life. So if you can
you know if you can handle the it's pretty heavy.
It's heavy reading, but it's it's it's really solid, really good. Anyway,
That's that's what I have.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Great. Okay, So, gentlemen, we have covered a lot here,
but we'll try to get the rest of these clips
in our next installment. We're going to two installments of
sin as if we could talk about the entire discussion
on sin in two episodes, but we're going to do
our best at least the the aberrations. This is all aberrations, folks,

(01:02:32):
and so what we I think we can all I
can speak for all three of us. Now, what this
means is that Chris Ballatin for sure is to be
marked and avoided as an aberrant teacher does not teach
sound doctrine, especially in regards to sin, the sin nature
and our life of sin as Christians. And actually what

(01:02:53):
he describes is not a Christian like you had mentioned earlier, Rick,
a person who says I have no sin is not
a Christian. And the truth they deceive themselves and the
truth is not in them. So I think that'll do it.
With closing thoughts, we wrapped it up here, and man,
we got this tied up and nice in a bow,
and Dan's gonna edit it for us and we'll put
this out hopefully this will be maybe in a few days.

(01:03:16):
All right, guys from us at light Bulb Ministries, I
bid you a glowing adieu and good night and good
evening whatever. We'll see you next time. Thanks for tuning in.
God bless y'all. Ye