Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hello out there in podcast land and beyond whereever that
might be Maxine Margar Rubin along with my co host
Malcolm Berman. And this is the Many Shades of Green,
our program that adds a dash of green into your
life as we engage in conversations that move to inform
and educate, activate and raise your eco and social consciousness
(00:43):
through culture of politics, music, arts, science, and community and
environmental organizations that are important. We hope to inspire you
to pick a shade of green and become a steward
of this beautiful, blue, green planet we call Earth. So
I'm going to say hi to Malcolm out in LA
because he's the further furthest away uh.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
And I'm gonna say hi to and.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Welcome alexis Uh here to the Many Shades of Grain.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
And we've got Neil back there on studio. And and.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
To say the least, we're in pretty uh strange and
kind of scary times and we need people to step up.
And we're recording this show today May first, which is
May Day, and people are protesting all over the country,
as they should be because we need to take democracy back.
(01:40):
So here I figured let's I love Patti Smith, the
Queen of punk and uh. And since people have the power,
let's hear it.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Those dreamings in my dreaming, the aspect running fair.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
They'll let my.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Steps it was broken my dreams, delgany in my farmer
showing valies. We have the killing hair recognized.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
H My sisters were the oup ulla.
Speaker 6 (02:32):
Waken you to the.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
Christ with The people have the power.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
To redeem the work of fools.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
From the meek the grace to shower.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
It's the creed the people. People have the people, the people.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
People have the power.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
We do have the power, the power to speak out right,
led us to government representatives, protests, attend meetings at local
and national levels, and a lot more. We have to
protect our democracy and we have to protect our air, land, water, rivers, oceans.
According to the Oceanic Society, between four and twelve million
(03:40):
metric tons of plastic and through the ocean each year,
enough to cover every foot of coastline on the planet,
and that amount is projected to triple in the next
twenty years. Let that kind of sink in. It's really
something your brain can't even you know. On plastic pollution
(04:02):
impacts sea turtles, whales, seabirds, fish, coral reefs, and countless
other marine species and habitats. It is on beaches, coastlines, lakes, rivers,
as well as on land and in the air. Plastic
has melodin into rocks, and they are now called plastic stones,
a newly recognized type of sedimentary rock that incorporates plastic
(04:25):
within their structure. They are essentially rocks formed from plastic waste,
often found in coastal areas or places which as a
high concentration of plastic debris. There are microplastics in the
human body and in wildlife.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
While we all.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Love for the Prince Tune purple rain, we need to
find out what's in plastic rain, because that's the thing now.
Our lives are inundated with plastic. From shampoo bottles to
shower curtains, there are microplastics and toothpaste, plastic utensils, tea bags,
bottled water, and just so many more a few. So,
(05:03):
how do we stop the proliferation of plastics and manufacturing?
And what can we do to take action to reduce
plastic use and plastic manufacturing, which is I think a
key key thing. So joining us today on the many
shades of green is Alexis Goldsmith, National Organizing director of
Beyond Plastics, which is an amazing, amazing organization. She's a
(05:24):
grassroots organizer, grew up originally in Indiana, graduated Indiana University
in Bloomington. She managed and then served the food pantries
for the Capital District. Went on to the Sanctuary for
Independent Media, coordinating permaculture campus and independent news programs program,
(05:46):
the Hudson Mohawk Magazine and the Huston Mohawk Magazine. She
has produced hundreds of interviews, largely on petrochemicals and environmental activism,
so we're going to need to talk about that today.
And she's just amazing person fighting for environmental justice, indigenous
(06:07):
rights on the Hudson River, and so much more.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
So at this point, you know, you have a full plate,
and I'm.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
So glad that you hear and so so busy and
took your time out to be on the many shades
of green.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
So welcome, welcome, welcome to the to the program.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Thanks for having me. Yeah, look forward to our conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, well we'll we'll hit up a lot of things,
but my first question is going to be the infamous
shade of green.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Question, So, what is your shade of green at this moment?
Speaker 5 (06:41):
Well, here where I sit in northern Renstler County in
New York, it's still early spring and things are just
starting to leaf out, and I love right when spring
spring starts to get going. There are a lot of
differ French shades of green in those early leaves, and
(07:04):
I love seeing all the different shades of greens. So
it's really hard to pick a favorite. It's really a kaleidoscope.
But I have to say green is definitely my favorite color.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Green is good, Green is good. I'm with you on
the the beauty. I mean out my window. If I
showed it around, it's like in my back area, this
forest and it's all different greens leafing out. It's one
of my favorite times of the year to see that
that light green. You know, it gets darker and is
this this light beautiful green that you know presents.
Speaker 6 (07:37):
That well, you guess should come out to California.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It's always green, I know, but it's also a desert.
It's the cactus. I'm warrant a cat I am worried.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
About, you know.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
Well, I'm back, but are beautiful?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yes, actually that it is. It's pretty it's pretty cool.
I mean, my whole family lives there. I'm I'm aware
of all the Florida.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
That they look like weathered old men.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, something related to you're surviving.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I know you are so anyway, So I know you
know that this is a time, as I mentioned before,
that it's it's rough out there and plastic h is
more a part of everyone's lives than they know. I mean,
they don't really know that they're ingesting microplastics in different forms,
(08:33):
and they don't know how it's affecting climate.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
And you know, to me, people need to be aware
of the plastic you know, how plastics are affecting all that.
So I don't know if you want to start out
with talking about plastics and climate or you want to
go into the health aspects first.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Sure, well we can touch on the public awareness as
you were just talking about. I think that understanding is
growing among the general public that we're all ingesting microplastics
through the air, water, and our food. And I do
think that there's more awareness that plastics are made from
(09:18):
oil and petrochemicals and that they have an immense impact
on the climate. But it is behind and that's by design.
That is by the industry's design. Industry has known for
a long time that recycling plastics doesn't work, and they
(09:43):
buried that and did a very effective public relations campaign
to convince consumers that plastic was safe. It's not that
plastics are inert They're not that plastics can be recycled.
That's mostly not true. And I can say this confidently
(10:06):
because the California Attorney General, Rob Banta has filed an
extensive lawsuit against Exxon Mobile, and that lawsuit is open
to naming other defendants, accusing Exon of generating the plastic
pollution crisis by manufacturing the illusion that recycling would work
(10:34):
to take care of plastic pollution. And in that article
or in that lawsuit, which I encourage everyone to look
up on the Internet and read, they state that Exxon's
economic growth depends on plastic. Eighty percent of their future
economic growth is plastic. So industry note has known about
(11:00):
the microplastic problem, the climate problem for a long time,
and they deliberately misled consumers and politicians into thinking that
plastics could be managed through recycling, so that laws wouldn't
be passed to restrict the use of plastic, which would
actually take care of the root of the problem.
Speaker 7 (11:21):
Excuse me? Is that a lawsuit from the California state
or is it a class action?
Speaker 5 (11:29):
It's California State of California.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
So it should be something that could definitely check out.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
But public awareness is growing now despite that, and I
think that is largely owing to scientific research and good
journalists who are who are sharing, you know, the research
coming out about microplastics in brains, microplastics in placentas, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, there's microplastics in like so many I mean, it's
in the blood, it's in reproductive organ it's just in and.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You don't think about it.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
People aren't realizing that they're still buying that single use
plastic bottle of water, you know, they're they're still buying
shampoo in the you know, I mean, you're not realizing
what you're doing to yourself at this point, and the
chemical companies in those manufacturing are not.
Speaker 6 (12:25):
How does this surface itself?
Speaker 7 (12:27):
You know, if you we all know, okay, intellectually, okay,
we're consuming plastics.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
How does this manifest in the body?
Speaker 7 (12:35):
What are there any diseases that are up or do
we know what it causes?
Speaker 6 (12:39):
And the extent it is in.
Speaker 7 (12:42):
Today's day and age versus ten years ago, twenty years ago.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Yeah, this is something that we're just learning. This is
emerging research, but we know that it's generally not good. Really,
any kind of mic croscopic particles can be problematic for health,
can cause inflammation. But for example, for plastics, there was
(13:11):
a twenty twenty three study of microplastic exposure found that
it promotes the proliferation of skin cancer cells and inhibits
the growth of normal cells because it affects the inflammatory process.
There was another study out in twenty twenty four on
(13:31):
microplastics and heart disease. So this study was pretty a
pretty bombshell study. It found that microplastics in the carotid
arteries in fifty eight percent of the patients that were
sampled in the study and continued moder monitoring of those
(13:52):
patients showed a four hundred and fifty percent increase in
the risk of heart attack or stroke for those microplastics
in their arteries. The list goes on. Microplastics are associated
with dementia. There was a study out just this year,
a couple months. Yeah, this year, it's it's May now
(14:15):
a couple months it was it's still February, but we
think today. So this study came out that microplastics are
in our brains, which we knew, but they're increasing in
the brains. So this study, compared to a study that
was conducted in twenty sixteen, found a fifty percent increase
(14:35):
in microplastic particles in the brain since twenty sixteen, and
that's associated with cognitive decline. So all I can say
is it's likely not good. And as for people you
know who don't who you know, quote as you said, Malcolm,
don't know what they're doing to themselves when they drink
(14:56):
a bottle of water. The government should be responsible for
protecting consumers from these health risks. And we've known that
microplastics are in bottled water. We know that microplastics shed
from plastic packaging, and that's why I'm working on a
law here in New York State that would help reduce
(15:16):
microplastic exposure in packaging. But I avoid laying blame on consumers,
because why shouldn't you trust that a product is safe.
They're definitely we need to go back to glass bottles
and reusable but for reusable glass bottles for beverages, But
(15:37):
that's a whole other kettle of fish.
Speaker 7 (15:39):
You want to talk the two words I got for
you for us. But what we don't know, citizens United
Large corporations can put so much money in two campaigns
for legislators that they forget about the you know, the
plastic pollution.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
They don't want to know.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I mean, if you look who's you know, the heads
of various departments now in this current administration, your head
will spin in a circle. They put a certain put
a certain someone in charge of the health, you.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
Know, department.
Speaker 7 (16:14):
It's not only the president administration, pest administrations also because
all these people looking for funding because without funding, they
can't be re elected.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
And the people what they're doing, they're.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Funding everything right now.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
So you know all the research money because you mentioned
research on on you know, caroated artery.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
But how would I know? I mean, I'm a you.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Know, cardiac patient. What would I even tell my doctor?
How can you check my karates to see what's in there?
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I mean, what would you.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Even asks as a as a patient to your doctor?
What would you say, like, hey, doc, I read this
report and and and there's like a good possibility I
have microplastics in my carotid arteries. How would he even like,
you know, what would he say? Wan to stump them?
Because I'm going to ask him my next visit. He's
going to get some some questions from me, just so
(17:05):
I see how much he really.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
That's a good question. How would I know? Would I go.
Speaker 7 (17:13):
How much plastics do I have in my body? Is
there any specific testing?
Speaker 5 (17:19):
I don't know of any specific testing. It's not my
realm of expertise. I would assume that everyone has plastic
in their body. I would assume that all living creatures
have have microplastics in their bodies. The question for me
that I am interested would be interested in learning about,
(17:40):
is can we get plastic out of the body? And
what steps can we take to you know, protect ourselves
from the inflammation that are caused by these particles, et cetera.
And how can we prevent exposure to microplastics in the
first place?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Right, there's there's a lot, you know, when we go
through lists, I mean, and I'll stuff what you know
that I was looking at, what what contained? I mean,
including you know, the tea bags you put in the water.
I luckily use loose tea. You know, I'm a fan
of Harney Tea's, which is upstate New York. I kind
of I try to be you know, uh, give New
(18:17):
York my my business. And it's just incredible to think
of what you're putting in, you know, the tea's and
that that tea bag and it's all plastic. You know,
it's just and you don't connect to that. You know,
if I say to someone that I'm having dinner and
why using this tea bag?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
You shouldn't be, and they'll go away, are you crazy?
You know so?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
And they'll probably go yes, But you know, it's just
when you try to figure out how this is all
coming down. I mean there's also I think Attorney General
in New York, letician Jim she uh I filed a
lawsuit against PEPSI. Right, there's the lawsuit because of they
were they I think it was a river or water
(19:00):
in Buffalo.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
Was the largest polluter plastic polluter of the Buffalo River watershed.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Right, And they found looking through it that they found
you know, bags and cans, and people don't realize that
the cans are coated on the inside with plastic.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I didn't even know that. I thought it was aluminum
and it's.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Okay, but it's it's not I'm like, you know, the
more you read and the more you learn, the more
you want to Just as I keep saying, stay under
your desk all day and.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Just kind of hide.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
How hard is one avoided? It seems like it's so prevalent.
Speaker 7 (19:37):
Is there way of you know, going to like, you know,
when I was an adolescent, that was sort of like, oh,
you need a healthy diet, no preservatives, But this seems
to go way beyond that.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
M hmm. It's it's hard, if not impossible, to avoid
plastic entirely. But I for me, it's a mindset. So
so I have the mindset of wanting to make plastic
free choices for my health whenever I can. So every
time I have a choice, I'll choose the plastic free option.
(20:10):
But often I don't have the choice or I can't
afford the choice. So you just do the best you can.
And then that's where advocacy comes in, where we're advocating
for laws that will actually restrict the production and use
of plastic, especially unnecessary plastics that that have substitutes.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah, I mean they have.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
You know, we're trying to put laws into place a
bed One thing we do in our in Westchester. I
think it's all of Westchester that they can't give out
the plastic utensils. It when you take out food and
unless you ask them, you can't get them.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
You know those like one, you know, these little.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Tiny, these small steps that people. It'll make you awares,
like I can't get my plastic you know utensil?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Why?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You know, let's asking for it? Like you think the
people who you know say why, will maybe.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Look up why? But who knows? You know?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
How do you get the advocacy? How do you get
them to pay attention? That seems to me the biggest problem,
you know, one of is getting people you know, to
know what's happening and what does beyond plastics do on
that level.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Well, we do a lot of education. We teach a
class at Bennington on plastic pollution and advocacy. We host webinars,
we're hosting one, we just hosted one last night on
plastic and extremely processed foods like single use or single
(21:44):
cheese slices that are wrapped in plastic, so the connection
between those and poor health outcomes. But really when it
comes to advocacy, it's educating the media so that they
can report accurately on the impacts of plastic pollution and
what the real problems and causes and solutions are, and
(22:07):
educating your legislators. So I recommend everyone call their assembly
member and their state senator if you're here in New York,
and urge them to support the Packaging Reduction and Recycling
Infrastructure Act and the Bigger Better Bottle Bill. These are
two bills that will reduce plastic pollution in New York
State and make packaging safer for all consumers.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Right, those are two important bills, and I'm gonna have to
talk a little more about them so people know because
we already hit the brake somehow. I don't know how,
but we did so well. We will be back more
with the Lexis Goldsmith Beyond Plastic to talk about that
and other things, So please stay tuned.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
Lutchin riverradio dot com.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
This is hudsandriverradio dot com.
Speaker 8 (23:03):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com. This is Hudson
River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
And we are back with a Lexis Goldsmith of Beyond
Plastics talking about various bills that are in in New
York and the Senate. I don't know what is nationally,
but if you know anything about those we've been going
to it, but at this point the e p A
is and we want to figure out what actions we
can take to reduce you know, plastics as an individual
(23:54):
and talk more about that. So also, please subscribe to
our podcast on all major podcasts apps, follow us on
Facebook and Instagram, and threads at Team Shades of Green,
and if you.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Have questions, just put it in the comments. Anyway.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
So let's talk about the Plastic you know, Reduction Act
and the Big bottle you know. So I'll let you
pick which one you want to start first.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Okay, I'll start with the packaging bill. So it's called
the Packaging Reduction and Recycling Infrastructure Act, Okay, a bit
of a mouthful. We call it PRIA for short. It's
sponsored by Senator Harkhom of Westchester and assembly Member Glick
of Manhattan. This bill will affect packaging for most consumer
(24:41):
goods in New York State. So just some background, packaging
and paper products make up fort of our waste stream
in New York. It's a huge chunk of waste that's
going to landfills and incinerators, and it's very expensive for taxpayers.
And that includes you know, the proliferate plastic packaging that
(25:03):
we see everywhere when it comes to plastic production. Of
the plastic that's being produced every year, something like four
hundred and fifty million metric tons a year, about half
of that is for single use plastics. So packaging is
a huge, huge chunk of the plastic problem, and this
(25:26):
bill is designed to address that. So this bill will
it will directly reduce plastic packaging by thirty percent over
twelve years, so that's great. And then the packaging that remains,
the companies who are putting that packaging on the market,
(25:47):
so Amazon, McDonald's, Walmart, Unilever, Pepsi, et cetera, they will
need to ensure that that packaging is recycled at a
rate of seventy five percent by twenty fifty two, with
a minimum of twenty percent of that being reused. So
plastic packaging is reduced number one. And then the packaging
(26:10):
that remains must be effectively recycled or reused or they
can't use it. And that's important because the recycling rate
for plastic in the US is just five or six
percent and it's never gotten above ten percent. So it's
not saying you can't use plastic packaging, but it is
saying that you can't use plastic packaging if it's not
(26:31):
being recycled. Then the third thing the bill does is
get toxic chemicals out of packaging. So there are approximately
sixteen thousand toxic chemicals used in the production of plastics.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Only sixteen thousand toss.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
I know, oh you know, just things you have in
your cabinet at home, probably not much. Most of them
have not been tested for safety, only about a third
of them, and we know some of them are really toxic.
So this bill banns seventeen chemicals that are known to
be toxic, including all pfast chemicals, so the forever chemicals.
(27:10):
Those are used like in popcorn bags because they're grease.
It's a grease barrier. They're used in all kinds of
food packaging as a grease barrier. It also bans heavy
metals lead, cadmium, mercury. It bans tolluine, which is the
chemical that was leaching into people's basements and the infamous
(27:33):
love canal disaster.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, loves coming back, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
I saw that my head spun.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
And have any alternative methods or alternative things that they
could do to replace what we have now.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Oh sure, sure, I'd love to talk about that. Let
me just finish what the bill does. Okay, Yeah, So tolluene, cadmium, mercury, lead, benzene.
It bans four mouths hide, which is in a lot
of packaging. It's a very carcinogenic chemical. It bans palates,
(28:11):
which are really bad for women's reproductive health, and bistamols,
and there's a couple others. So this is to protect
public health. And I always love to use the baby
food example. Not too long ago, baby food used to
be sold in glass jars. But if you've been to
a store lately, or if you're a new parent and
you look at the baby food asal, they're all in
these plastic pouches, and you just imagine your the babies
(28:35):
like suck directly on those plastic packages and they're getting
a nice dose some microplastics and toxic chemicals in the process.
But let I'm not blaming the parents at all for that.
You gotta feed your baby. But let's make baby food
packaging safer by prohibiting these types of chemicals and packaging
(28:56):
and safer for all New Yorkers.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
So I don't know that about baby food.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I mean, my kiddo had the glass, you know, because
I go a little further back. But how would you
even I mean, there's a lot of.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
You know people there.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
There are certain people like doctor Spock has been replaced
by doctor Becky, and I'm wondering if these folks, you know,
the ones coming up or in that space now touch
on that at all. I mean they touch on how
do you raise your kid from a more of an
emotional psychological point, but what you're feeding your kid, I
(29:33):
mean that's very important, you know, in terms of education.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
So we can just go back to glass for baby food.
Why have the plastic pouches? So reduction, reuse, recycling, getting
toxic chemicals out of packaging, and then making companies pay
to clean up their trash. Basically, so right now, companies
(29:58):
they put all this package on the market and they
have no responsibility for it once it's on the shelf.
But we taxpayers, we're paying a lot of money to landfill, recycle,
and burn all that packaging waste. So the bill will
require companies to pay a fee for their packaging. The
fee is lower if their packaging is better for the
(30:21):
environment and the fee will be used to reimburse municipalities
for the cost of waste management of that packaging. So
to put this into perspective, New York City alone is
spending almost half a billion every year to export their
municipal solid waste. And as I said, packaging and paper
products make up forty percent of the waste stream. This
(30:44):
is a bigger topic, this economic topic. But we have
a report on our website that really dives into the
taxpayer savings for this bill, the Packaging Reduction and Recycling
Infrastructure Act. So if you go to our website beyond
Plastic stock Org and hit Publications, you can see how
much all the regions in New York stand to save
(31:07):
with this bill. So those are the big points of
the bill.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
How is the bill coming along? Where is it at
in the process is my question.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
I'm really pleased to share that as of today, we
have a majority of co sponsors in the Assembly, so
that is really excited. That is good news. So we
know it would pass if it went to the floor
for a vote. We have to get the Assembly Speaker
hasty to let the bill move. It's currently sitting in
the Codes Committee, which is chaired by Assembly Member Jeff Dinowitz.
(31:41):
I'm confident that he will bring it up for a
vote in codes, but then it has to go through
a couple more committees before it gets to the floor.
But that's really important that we have that majority of
co sponsors in the Senate. We're just three co sponsors
away from a majority. We have twenty nine, we need three.
We need thirty two for a majority. But it passed
the Senate last year on the last day of session.
(32:03):
It was very dramatic.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Pete Hawkom is my my my representative Chris and Chris Verdick,
and they're you know, they're both very pro environment extremely.
Speaker 6 (32:15):
So is this local legislation or a national This.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Is a state This is a state bill. I'd be
happy to talk about national bills. So anyway, if you're
listening and you're in New York State, call your Assembly member,
call your senator, call Assembly Speaker Carl Hasty, and say
let's get the packaging bill done.
Speaker 7 (32:34):
Yeah, we have anything going? Since I'm in California, do
we have anything happening.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
Here California recently? So, California has an extended Producer Responsibility law.
It's called SB fifty four, and they this was passed
a few years ago, and the state has been working
on the regulations for that bill for two years and
(33:00):
Governor Gavin Newsom just sent them back to the drawing
board very unexpectedly and told them to start over. So
I'm not sure what the latest is on that. There's
a lot of advocates working on that. But I would
call the governor and you know, ask him not to
hamstring SB fifty four the way he's doing.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
I'm wondering why, because he's a fairly liberal.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
I I could conjecture I think it's political, but I'm
not going to because I don't want to stray into
electoral politics because that's not my realm.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Yeah, everything is political.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Everything is political, and I do work on politics, but
I can't talk about electoral politics.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
So yeah, no, well we'll stay away from that. But
you know, we have we know which states are on
board with a lot of things to try to get
you know, these particular things past. But then there's you know,
the other states and they do not, which doesn't make
sense because a lot of what is you know, all
(34:07):
the toxicity and fumes and everything are in areas where
less served areas or lower income areas or you know,
and you would think that the representatives would know that,
but they're in, you know, with the plastic producers and
the chemical producers, and you see the factory spewing, and
(34:30):
then you see a house you know, two blocks away
and the family there's cancer, you know, And then they go,
why do these so many of these, you know, people
near four blocks away?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Have you know cancer?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I mean, it's you know, it's hard to just put
in your mind why this just continually happens and nothing
gets really done.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
But but in New York, we're trying.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
You know, I could see, you know that if we
get to this, it'll be really really good.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
So what about that Bigger Bottle Bill? What is that about?
Speaker 5 (35:04):
So the Bigger, Better Bottle Bill would expand the state's
current deposit return law. So in New York, we have
a five cent deposit on certain beverage containers. It was
enacted in nineteen eighty two, so it's been a while
and the nickel isn't what it was back in nineteen
eighty two. So the Bigger, Better Bottle Bill would raise
(35:25):
the deposit, the fully refundable deposit, to ten cents and
that's to encourage people to redeem their bottles and cans.
These are recyclable containers. This is the best recycling law
we have in the state. Raising it to ten cents,
it's estimated would increase our redemption to ninety percent, So
(35:45):
we're at about sixty mid sixties for redemption right now.
That would recover literally billions of containers from the waste
stream every year. And it would also support marginalized workers
who collect deposit containers for a living. They're called canners.
Many of them are in New York City and they
(36:07):
they if you live in New York City, you know,
people go around and grab the containers and collect them
from from the trash. That's why they support themselves. And
these are people who can't get income in other ways.
They have barriers to employment, and they deserve a raise
because they're they're earning on average five dollars an hour
(36:28):
doing this work and that's how they are able to
support themselves.
Speaker 7 (36:32):
Is there anywhere I mean I used to do that
when when my kids were younger, but I would give
the bottles back to the places that I bought them,
like for the markets or you know, like we had
rows or Vaughan's. All of a sudden, Ralphs and Vaughns
didn't take them back. You had to give them to
a deposit center. And what happened there is you brought
(36:54):
the bottles back, but you had to wait on long lines.
So it becomes to the point it doesn't pay right.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
Well, something else this bill does would is it would
increase what's called the handling fee, which is a fee
that the beverage manufacturers pay for redemption centers and retailers
to take the bottles back. And that's how redemption centers
earn their money because they don't get anything from the deposit.
They get a three cent fee for every can from
(37:28):
the beverage manufacturer. So the Bigger, Better Bottle Bill would
raise that handling fee to six cents, and that would
support redemption centers because they are not able to continue
operating on just a three cent fee. And more than
one hundred redemption centers have closed in just the past
year in New York State because they can't afford to
(37:48):
stay open. So these are small businesses that are handling
a huge recycling stream in New York State that are
at risk of closing, which would make redemption even more
inconvenient for consumers, and basically the system is at the
breaking point, which is why we need the bigger, better
(38:09):
bottle bill to save it and you know, keep the
waste out of landfills.
Speaker 7 (38:15):
And it seems simpler if there was some sort of
bill that would require the larger supermarkets to redeem.
Speaker 5 (38:22):
They are required if you sell it, you're required to
take it back according to the law, and if they're
not taking it back, then that's an enforcement issue, and
DC needs to enforce retailers taking bottles back that they sell.
Speaker 6 (38:37):
I know.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
In New York, this is just in New York, though,
I would love to have a national bottle bill.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
That would be that would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I mean, I don't know, so what what's happening on
the on the national front, then, certainly on the.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
National front, I wish I had better news right now.
It's whack a mole to prevent bad legislation from passing,
and just too we can to prevent the situation from
getting worse. One issue we're really worried about is the
issue of chemical recycling. Chemical recycling is an umbrella term
(39:13):
for technologies that are being promoted by the plastics industry
and they say that this is better than mechanical recycling.
They lie and say that this can infinitely recycle plastics,
But the truth is that chemical recycling mostly turns plastic
into fuel to be burned, and in the rare cases
(39:35):
where it does turn plastic into new plastic, it's so
inefficient that most of the a lot of the material
is lost and new plastic has to be added to
the mix in order for it to have the integrity
that it needs as a material to actually be made
into something. So chemical recycling is the smoke and mirror's illusion.
(39:59):
That's an intensive, wasteful, polluting, expensive that the industry is
parading around to prevent plastic bands. But the threat is
that a national bill will come up to deregulate chemical
recycling technologies and exempt them from the Clean Air Act.
(40:20):
So currently the Clean Air Act regulates two of the
most common chemical cycling technologies, pyrolysis and gasification as incineration,
so it doesn't prohibit those technologies, but if you use them,
you have to have a Title five air permit, you
have to follow emissions regulations, you have to have all
(40:40):
these regulations affecting you know, the pollutants that you're putting
into the air, but industry wants to deregulate chemical recycling
and unleash it. As Lezelden says.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I think, yeah, it's it's just mind boggling that they
want to get rid of Clean Air Act, clean Water Act,
anything that's going to make people healthier and won't destroy
you know, the environment. And you just you shake your
(41:15):
head like why, like why why?
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I mean, just to line the pockets of these.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Chemical companies is why. I mean, and and then just
control us. I mean it just I mean, what is
beyond plastics thinking about what's happening at the e PA.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Now, I mean do they have a stance on that.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
Not thrilled, of course not.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
But I mean once they do this, and then how
do we when sanity might return, if ever, you know,
to get this all back?
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Then then I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Once it's gone, sometimes it's hard to you know, get.
Speaker 5 (41:53):
To get to get things back. So I think it's
very overwhelming. It's overwhelming to hear about this kind of thing.
But the solution to feeling overwhelmed is to take action
that can help you feel more empowered and like you
have some control. So taking action locally is the most
effective thing that people can do to prevent more pollution.
(42:15):
So getting involved at the town level, the city level,
the county level, you can block You can block new
projects at that level, and you can pass laws to
hamstring existing projects at that level. But it really does
(42:36):
take local organizing and advocacy. We have a training for
people who are interested in that beyond plastics dot org
slash trainings if you want to learn how to become
an advocate and take action where you are.
Speaker 7 (42:51):
Are you doing anything to educate the younger kids, I
mean from high school to college or even younger of
what's happening.
Speaker 5 (42:59):
We do work with college students. We have a course
on plastic pollution at Bennington College. We also teach a
course on plastics and health or my former colleague, Megan
Wolf teaches it. Rather she's not with us with they
on plastics anymore, but she teaches still teaches the course
(43:19):
for kids and children. There are other organizations that are
doing great work for that. We're more focused on advocacy
to pass laws. We do focus on education, but grassroots
advocacy our is our main focus.
Speaker 7 (43:35):
It seems like I think the children shall lead us.
It's they're the ones that are going to inherit the
world after we leave. I don't know about you, you're
still young, but after I leave, you know, this is
what we leave for the future generations.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
It's a tough one, boy. I gotta tal you.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
It makes me, you know, every day wonder where this
is all heading. I mean, you know, on an individual basis,
there's things you could do and don't buy single use plastic.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
And do you think.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
That within any of these laws or regulations coming up,
that they'll actually.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Ban single use plastic?
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Is that something you're trying to get done just like completely,
Like no, I can't use it anymore. Like they banned
single use plastic bags. We were the first town in Newcastle.
Newcastle was the first town in New York State to
have a single use ban completely. And so yeah, I mean,
and this is what you're talking about, local level, you know, grassroots,
(44:37):
and they used our model. Other towns in New York
used it and then finally went the whole state. But
you know, that's what kind of stuff you need.
Speaker 5 (44:47):
Yeah. I think bands are possible, and I think about
our future is possible, no matter how gloomy it feels now.
I think imagining about our world is really really important.
Imagining the world that you want to see and then
aligning your decision making with that. And remember, you know
(45:08):
you're not alone in this. You don't have to do
all of this by yourself. Connection and community is really important.
Find people to do this with you, find a group
to join, find a coalition to join, go to a meeting,
like you said, and just take action. And even if
your action fails, I have done so many grassroots actions
(45:30):
that failed, that didn't go anywhere, that never made an impact,
but I was like, Okay, what can I try next?
Just try something else, And the act of trying is
really empowering and is really what.
Speaker 7 (45:41):
Matters, right curiosity, Are there any other countries in the
world that are more educated than we are doing things?
Speaker 5 (45:52):
I can't answer that.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah, I think there's a lot, especially the Nordic Scandinavian
countries there in a different level.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
I mean even Paris now, and even you know.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
In France they're they're becoming a lot more aware and
doing things to help the environment.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (46:10):
Before we have to go, I just want to thank
you very much for your work and and and hope
you'll continue because I know it must be very frustrating
at times.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
What else am I going to do? I have no
choice but to keep trying, in my view, and thanks
for having me, and please go to our website beyond
plastics dot org if you want to learn more. We've
got publications, events, learn how to get involved if you're
interested in the plastic pollution issue.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, we all have to do that and take, you know,
something else within us to as you said, to the
act of trying and just you got to keep it up.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
And we can't just stop and hide on the desk.
You know.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
I don't know how many shows I've said I'm hiding
under my desk now in January and February and I
was like, okay, I'm out of my desk now.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
It's not going to have a little hiding under your
desk as a treat, that's right, a little bit every day.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
And bring my my my my short bread cookie.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
You know.
Speaker 7 (47:10):
It's like life is getting so much more complicated than
when I was in my twenties or teens.
Speaker 6 (47:17):
I mean, certain things that we would fight for well.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
And now people are fighting as we're speaking right now.
Just so don't give up hope right now as we
are taping this show.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
There are thousands and thousands and.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Thousands of people around this country showing up in the streets.
So just use that in your brain as a positive
that you know, we're not going to take it.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
You know that that's we're not gonna. We did that.
We did that song right with Twisted.
Speaker 5 (47:48):
You're not gone. We did.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
We use that a few a few weeks ago. We
keep picking different songs. I'm trying to get people motivated,
you know.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Uh So, But anyway, so thank you so much. You're
doing incredible work. Beyond Plastics does just great outreach and
communication and uh everyone should you know, go to their website.
And also if you have money, donate to them because
we need them, you know, to stay around and anything helps, right,
I think in that in that aspect as well, I'll
(48:19):
be the one making them donate. So but anyway, thank
you again for coming on. I know I would love
to have you back, uh and to talk about this morning.
Speaker 6 (48:29):
What are you doing next week?
Speaker 5 (48:31):
And we have our lobby day next week May on Wednesday,
So all right, there's still.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Room on the busy.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, all right, go to Beyond Plastics dot org and
you'll get more information about that, so again, thank you
and thanks for joining us for the many Shades of Green.
For more shows and info, go to Hudson River Radio
dot com, Malcolm Presents dot com and Themny Shades of
Green dot com. Uh send us your thoughts via email
to Greenworld Radio dot com, follow us on Instagram, Facebook,
(49:03):
and threads and now blue scratche Skott Blue Sky I'm Sorry,
which is a new, a newer social media thing. Shout
out to Neil back there for all his help and
always getting the show out, and Brian and Malcolm for
their help as well. Remember to pic Achete of green
and raise your eco consciousness and social consciousness.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
We got to add that. I'm Maxine Margot Rubin and
we'll see you again next time.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Hudson River Radio dot com
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hello out there in podcast land and beyond whereever that
might be Maxine Margar Rubin along with my co host
Malcolm Berman. And this is the Many Shades of Green,
our program that adds a dash of green into your
life as we engage in conversations that move to inform
and educate, activate and raise your eco and social consciousness
(00:43):
through culture of politics, music, arts, science, and community and
environmental organizations that are important. We hope to inspire you
to pick a shade of green and become a steward
of this beautiful, blue, green planet we call Earth. So
I'm going to say hi to Malcolm out in LA
because he's the further furthest away uh.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
And I'm gonna say hi to and.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Welcome alexis Uh here to the Many Shades of Grain.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
And we've got Neil back there on studio. And and.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
To say the least, we're in pretty uh strange and
kind of scary times and we need people to step up.
And we're recording this show today May first, which is
May Day, and people are protesting all over the country,
as they should be because we need to take democracy back.
(01:40):
So here I figured let's I love Patti Smith, the
Queen of punk and uh. And since people have the power,
let's hear it.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Those dreamings in my dreaming, the aspect running fair.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
They'll let my.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Steps it was broken my dreams, delgany in my farmer
showing valies. We have the killing hair recognized.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
H My sisters were the oup ulla.
Speaker 6 (02:32):
Waken you to the.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
Christ with The people have the power.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
To redeem the work of fools.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
From the meek the grace to shower.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
It's the creed the people. People have the people, the people.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
People have the power.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
We do have the power, the power to speak out right,
led us to government representatives, protests, attend meetings at local
and national levels, and a lot more. We have to
protect our democracy and we have to protect our air, land, water, rivers, oceans.
According to the Oceanic Society, between four and twelve million
(03:40):
metric tons of plastic and through the ocean each year,
enough to cover every foot of coastline on the planet,
and that amount is projected to triple in the next
twenty years. Let that kind of sink in. It's really
something your brain can't even you know. On plastic pollution
(04:02):
impacts sea turtles, whales, seabirds, fish, coral reefs, and countless
other marine species and habitats. It is on beaches, coastlines, lakes, rivers,
as well as on land and in the air. Plastic
has melodin into rocks, and they are now called plastic stones,
a newly recognized type of sedimentary rock that incorporates plastic
(04:25):
within their structure. They are essentially rocks formed from plastic waste,
often found in coastal areas or places which as a
high concentration of plastic debris. There are microplastics in the
human body and in wildlife.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
While we all.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Love for the Prince Tune purple rain, we need to
find out what's in plastic rain, because that's the thing now.
Our lives are inundated with plastic. From shampoo bottles to
shower curtains, there are microplastics and toothpaste, plastic utensils, tea bags,
bottled water, and just so many more a few. So,
(05:03):
how do we stop the proliferation of plastics and manufacturing?
And what can we do to take action to reduce
plastic use and plastic manufacturing, which is I think a
key key thing. So joining us today on the many
shades of green is Alexis Goldsmith, National Organizing director of
Beyond Plastics, which is an amazing, amazing organization. She's a
(05:24):
grassroots organizer, grew up originally in Indiana, graduated Indiana University
in Bloomington. She managed and then served the food pantries
for the Capital District. Went on to the Sanctuary for
Independent Media, coordinating permaculture campus and independent news programs program,
(05:46):
the Hudson Mohawk Magazine and the Huston Mohawk Magazine. She
has produced hundreds of interviews, largely on petrochemicals and environmental activism,
so we're going to need to talk about that today.
And she's just amazing person fighting for environmental justice, indigenous
(06:07):
rights on the Hudson River, and so much more.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
So at this point, you know, you have a full plate,
and I'm.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
So glad that you hear and so so busy and
took your time out to be on the many shades
of green.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
So welcome, welcome, welcome to the to the program.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Thanks for having me. Yeah, look forward to our conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, well we'll we'll hit up a lot of things,
but my first question is going to be the infamous
shade of green.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Question, So, what is your shade of green at this moment?
Speaker 5 (06:41):
Well, here where I sit in northern Renstler County in
New York, it's still early spring and things are just
starting to leaf out, and I love right when spring
spring starts to get going. There are a lot of
differ French shades of green in those early leaves, and
(07:04):
I love seeing all the different shades of greens. So
it's really hard to pick a favorite. It's really a kaleidoscope.
But I have to say green is definitely my favorite color.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Green is good, Green is good. I'm with you on
the the beauty. I mean out my window. If I
showed it around, it's like in my back area, this
forest and it's all different greens leafing out. It's one
of my favorite times of the year to see that
that light green. You know, it gets darker and is
this this light beautiful green that you know presents.
Speaker 6 (07:37):
That well, you guess should come out to California.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It's always green, I know, but it's also a desert.
It's the cactus. I'm warrant a cat I am worried.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
About, you know.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
Well, I'm back, but are beautiful?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yes, actually that it is. It's pretty it's pretty cool.
I mean, my whole family lives there. I'm I'm aware
of all the Florida.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
That they look like weathered old men.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, something related to you're surviving.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I know you are so anyway, So I know you
know that this is a time, as I mentioned before,
that it's it's rough out there and plastic h is
more a part of everyone's lives than they know. I mean,
they don't really know that they're ingesting microplastics in different forms,
(08:33):
and they don't know how it's affecting climate.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
And you know, to me, people need to be aware
of the plastic you know, how plastics are affecting all that.
So I don't know if you want to start out
with talking about plastics and climate or you want to
go into the health aspects first.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Sure, well we can touch on the public awareness as
you were just talking about. I think that understanding is
growing among the general public that we're all ingesting microplastics
through the air, water, and our food. And I do
think that there's more awareness that plastics are made from
(09:18):
oil and petrochemicals and that they have an immense impact
on the climate. But it is behind and that's by design.
That is by the industry's design. Industry has known for
a long time that recycling plastics doesn't work, and they
(09:43):
buried that and did a very effective public relations campaign
to convince consumers that plastic was safe. It's not that
plastics are inert They're not that plastics can be recycled.
That's mostly not true. And I can say this confidently
(10:06):
because the California Attorney General, Rob Banta has filed an
extensive lawsuit against Exxon Mobile, and that lawsuit is open
to naming other defendants, accusing Exon of generating the plastic
pollution crisis by manufacturing the illusion that recycling would work
(10:34):
to take care of plastic pollution. And in that article
or in that lawsuit, which I encourage everyone to look
up on the Internet and read, they state that Exxon's
economic growth depends on plastic. Eighty percent of their future
economic growth is plastic. So industry note has known about
(11:00):
the microplastic problem, the climate problem for a long time,
and they deliberately misled consumers and politicians into thinking that
plastics could be managed through recycling, so that laws wouldn't
be passed to restrict the use of plastic, which would
actually take care of the root of the problem.
Speaker 7 (11:21):
Excuse me? Is that a lawsuit from the California state
or is it a class action?
Speaker 5 (11:29):
It's California State of California.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
So it should be something that could definitely check out.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
But public awareness is growing now despite that, and I
think that is largely owing to scientific research and good
journalists who are who are sharing, you know, the research
coming out about microplastics in brains, microplastics in placentas, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, there's microplastics in like so many I mean, it's
in the blood, it's in reproductive organ it's just in and.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You don't think about it.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
People aren't realizing that they're still buying that single use
plastic bottle of water, you know, they're they're still buying
shampoo in the you know, I mean, you're not realizing
what you're doing to yourself at this point, and the
chemical companies in those manufacturing are not.
Speaker 6 (12:25):
How does this surface itself?
Speaker 7 (12:27):
You know, if you we all know, okay, intellectually, okay,
we're consuming plastics.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
How does this manifest in the body?
Speaker 7 (12:35):
What are there any diseases that are up or do
we know what it causes?
Speaker 6 (12:39):
And the extent it is in.
Speaker 7 (12:42):
Today's day and age versus ten years ago, twenty years ago.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Yeah, this is something that we're just learning. This is
emerging research, but we know that it's generally not good. Really,
any kind of mic croscopic particles can be problematic for health,
can cause inflammation. But for example, for plastics, there was
(13:11):
a twenty twenty three study of microplastic exposure found that
it promotes the proliferation of skin cancer cells and inhibits
the growth of normal cells because it affects the inflammatory process.
There was another study out in twenty twenty four on
(13:31):
microplastics and heart disease. So this study was pretty a
pretty bombshell study. It found that microplastics in the carotid
arteries in fifty eight percent of the patients that were
sampled in the study and continued moder monitoring of those
(13:52):
patients showed a four hundred and fifty percent increase in
the risk of heart attack or stroke for those microplastics
in their arteries. The list goes on. Microplastics are associated
with dementia. There was a study out just this year,
a couple months. Yeah, this year, it's it's May now
(14:15):
a couple months it was it's still February, but we
think today. So this study came out that microplastics are
in our brains, which we knew, but they're increasing in
the brains. So this study, compared to a study that
was conducted in twenty sixteen, found a fifty percent increase
(14:35):
in microplastic particles in the brain since twenty sixteen, and
that's associated with cognitive decline. So all I can say
is it's likely not good. And as for people you
know who don't who you know, quote as you said, Malcolm,
don't know what they're doing to themselves when they drink
(14:56):
a bottle of water. The government should be responsible for
protecting consumers from these health risks. And we've known that
microplastics are in bottled water. We know that microplastics shed
from plastic packaging, and that's why I'm working on a
law here in New York State that would help reduce
(15:16):
microplastic exposure in packaging. But I avoid laying blame on consumers,
because why shouldn't you trust that a product is safe.
They're definitely we need to go back to glass bottles
and reusable but for reusable glass bottles for beverages, But
(15:37):
that's a whole other kettle of fish.
Speaker 7 (15:39):
You want to talk the two words I got for
you for us. But what we don't know, citizens United
Large corporations can put so much money in two campaigns
for legislators that they forget about the you know, the
plastic pollution.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
They don't want to know.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I mean, if you look who's you know, the heads
of various departments now in this current administration, your head
will spin in a circle. They put a certain put
a certain someone in charge of the health, you.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
Know, department.
Speaker 7 (16:14):
It's not only the president administration, pest administrations also because
all these people looking for funding because without funding, they
can't be re elected.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
And the people what they're doing, they're.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Funding everything right now.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
So you know all the research money because you mentioned
research on on you know, caroated artery.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
But how would I know? I mean, I'm a you.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Know, cardiac patient. What would I even tell my doctor?
How can you check my karates to see what's in there?
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I mean, what would you.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Even asks as a as a patient to your doctor?
What would you say, like, hey, doc, I read this
report and and and there's like a good possibility I
have microplastics in my carotid arteries. How would he even like,
you know, what would he say? Wan to stump them?
Because I'm going to ask him my next visit. He's
going to get some some questions from me, just so
(17:05):
I see how much he really.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
That's a good question. How would I know? Would I go.
Speaker 7 (17:13):
How much plastics do I have in my body? Is
there any specific testing?
Speaker 5 (17:19):
I don't know of any specific testing. It's not my
realm of expertise. I would assume that everyone has plastic
in their body. I would assume that all living creatures
have have microplastics in their bodies. The question for me
that I am interested would be interested in learning about,
(17:40):
is can we get plastic out of the body? And
what steps can we take to you know, protect ourselves
from the inflammation that are caused by these particles, et cetera.
And how can we prevent exposure to microplastics in the
first place?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Right, there's there's a lot, you know, when we go
through lists, I mean, and I'll stuff what you know
that I was looking at, what what contained? I mean,
including you know, the tea bags you put in the water.
I luckily use loose tea. You know, I'm a fan
of Harney Tea's, which is upstate New York. I kind
of I try to be you know, uh, give New
(18:17):
York my my business. And it's just incredible to think
of what you're putting in, you know, the tea's and
that that tea bag and it's all plastic. You know,
it's just and you don't connect to that. You know,
if I say to someone that I'm having dinner and
why using this tea bag?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
You shouldn't be, and they'll go away, are you crazy?
You know so?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
And they'll probably go yes, But you know, it's just
when you try to figure out how this is all
coming down. I mean there's also I think Attorney General
in New York, letician Jim she uh I filed a
lawsuit against PEPSI. Right, there's the lawsuit because of they
were they I think it was a river or water
(19:00):
in Buffalo.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
Was the largest polluter plastic polluter of the Buffalo River watershed.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Right, And they found looking through it that they found
you know, bags and cans, and people don't realize that
the cans are coated on the inside with plastic.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I didn't even know that. I thought it was aluminum
and it's.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Okay, but it's it's not I'm like, you know, the
more you read and the more you learn, the more
you want to Just as I keep saying, stay under
your desk all day and.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Just kind of hide.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
How hard is one avoided? It seems like it's so prevalent.
Speaker 7 (19:37):
Is there way of you know, going to like, you know,
when I was an adolescent, that was sort of like, oh,
you need a healthy diet, no preservatives, But this seems
to go way beyond that.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
M hmm. It's it's hard, if not impossible, to avoid
plastic entirely. But I for me, it's a mindset. So
so I have the mindset of wanting to make plastic
free choices for my health whenever I can. So every
time I have a choice, I'll choose the plastic free option.
(20:10):
But often I don't have the choice or I can't
afford the choice. So you just do the best you can.
And then that's where advocacy comes in, where we're advocating
for laws that will actually restrict the production and use
of plastic, especially unnecessary plastics that that have substitutes.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah, I mean they have.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
You know, we're trying to put laws into place a
bed One thing we do in our in Westchester. I
think it's all of Westchester that they can't give out
the plastic utensils. It when you take out food and
unless you ask them, you can't get them.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
You know those like one, you know, these little.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Tiny, these small steps that people. It'll make you awares,
like I can't get my plastic you know utensil?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Why?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You know, let's asking for it? Like you think the
people who you know say why, will maybe.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Look up why? But who knows? You know?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
How do you get the advocacy? How do you get
them to pay attention? That seems to me the biggest problem,
you know, one of is getting people you know, to
know what's happening and what does beyond plastics do on
that level.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Well, we do a lot of education. We teach a
class at Bennington on plastic pollution and advocacy. We host webinars,
we're hosting one, we just hosted one last night on
plastic and extremely processed foods like single use or single
(21:44):
cheese slices that are wrapped in plastic, so the connection
between those and poor health outcomes. But really when it
comes to advocacy, it's educating the media so that they
can report accurately on the impacts of plastic pollution and
what the real problems and causes and solutions are, and
(22:07):
educating your legislators. So I recommend everyone call their assembly
member and their state senator if you're here in New York,
and urge them to support the Packaging Reduction and Recycling
Infrastructure Act and the Bigger Better Bottle Bill. These are
two bills that will reduce plastic pollution in New York
State and make packaging safer for all consumers.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Right, those are two important bills, and I'm gonna have to
talk a little more about them so people know because
we already hit the brake somehow. I don't know how,
but we did so well. We will be back more
with the Lexis Goldsmith Beyond Plastic to talk about that
and other things, So please stay tuned.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
Lutchin riverradio dot com.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
This is hudsandriverradio dot com.
Speaker 8 (23:03):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com. This is Hudson
River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
And we are back with a Lexis Goldsmith of Beyond
Plastics talking about various bills that are in in New
York and the Senate. I don't know what is nationally,
but if you know anything about those we've been going
to it, but at this point the e p A
is and we want to figure out what actions we
can take to reduce you know, plastics as an individual
(23:54):
and talk more about that. So also, please subscribe to
our podcast on all major podcasts apps, follow us on
Facebook and Instagram, and threads at Team Shades of Green,
and if you.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Have questions, just put it in the comments. Anyway.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
So let's talk about the Plastic you know, Reduction Act
and the Big bottle you know. So I'll let you
pick which one you want to start first.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Okay, I'll start with the packaging bill. So it's called
the Packaging Reduction and Recycling Infrastructure Act, Okay, a bit
of a mouthful. We call it PRIA for short. It's
sponsored by Senator Harkhom of Westchester and assembly Member Glick
of Manhattan. This bill will affect packaging for most consumer
(24:41):
goods in New York State. So just some background, packaging
and paper products make up fort of our waste stream
in New York. It's a huge chunk of waste that's
going to landfills and incinerators, and it's very expensive for taxpayers.
And that includes you know, the proliferate plastic packaging that
(25:03):
we see everywhere when it comes to plastic production. Of
the plastic that's being produced every year, something like four
hundred and fifty million metric tons a year, about half
of that is for single use plastics. So packaging is
a huge, huge chunk of the plastic problem, and this
(25:26):
bill is designed to address that. So this bill will
it will directly reduce plastic packaging by thirty percent over
twelve years, so that's great. And then the packaging that remains,
the companies who are putting that packaging on the market,
(25:47):
so Amazon, McDonald's, Walmart, Unilever, Pepsi, et cetera, they will
need to ensure that that packaging is recycled at a
rate of seventy five percent by twenty fifty two, with
a minimum of twenty percent of that being reused. So
plastic packaging is reduced number one. And then the packaging
(26:10):
that remains must be effectively recycled or reused or they
can't use it. And that's important because the recycling rate
for plastic in the US is just five or six
percent and it's never gotten above ten percent. So it's
not saying you can't use plastic packaging, but it is
saying that you can't use plastic packaging if it's not
(26:31):
being recycled. Then the third thing the bill does is
get toxic chemicals out of packaging. So there are approximately
sixteen thousand toxic chemicals used in the production of plastics.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Only sixteen thousand toss.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
I know, oh you know, just things you have in
your cabinet at home, probably not much. Most of them
have not been tested for safety, only about a third
of them, and we know some of them are really toxic.
So this bill banns seventeen chemicals that are known to
be toxic, including all pfast chemicals, so the forever chemicals.
(27:10):
Those are used like in popcorn bags because they're grease.
It's a grease barrier. They're used in all kinds of
food packaging as a grease barrier. It also bans heavy
metals lead, cadmium, mercury. It bans tolluine, which is the
chemical that was leaching into people's basements and the infamous
(27:33):
love canal disaster.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, loves coming back, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
I saw that my head spun.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
And have any alternative methods or alternative things that they
could do to replace what we have now.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Oh sure, sure, I'd love to talk about that. Let
me just finish what the bill does. Okay, Yeah, So tolluene, cadmium, mercury, lead, benzene.
It bans four mouths hide, which is in a lot
of packaging. It's a very carcinogenic chemical. It bans palates,
(28:11):
which are really bad for women's reproductive health, and bistamols,
and there's a couple others. So this is to protect
public health. And I always love to use the baby
food example. Not too long ago, baby food used to
be sold in glass jars. But if you've been to
a store lately, or if you're a new parent and
you look at the baby food asal, they're all in
these plastic pouches, and you just imagine your the babies
(28:35):
like suck directly on those plastic packages and they're getting
a nice dose some microplastics and toxic chemicals in the process.
But let I'm not blaming the parents at all for that.
You gotta feed your baby. But let's make baby food
packaging safer by prohibiting these types of chemicals and packaging
(28:56):
and safer for all New Yorkers.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
So I don't know that about baby food.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I mean, my kiddo had the glass, you know, because
I go a little further back. But how would you
even I mean, there's a lot of.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
You know people there.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
There are certain people like doctor Spock has been replaced
by doctor Becky, and I'm wondering if these folks, you know,
the ones coming up or in that space now touch
on that at all. I mean they touch on how
do you raise your kid from a more of an
emotional psychological point, but what you're feeding your kid, I
(29:33):
mean that's very important, you know, in terms of education.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
So we can just go back to glass for baby food.
Why have the plastic pouches? So reduction, reuse, recycling, getting
toxic chemicals out of packaging, and then making companies pay
to clean up their trash. Basically, so right now, companies
(29:58):
they put all this package on the market and they
have no responsibility for it once it's on the shelf.
But we taxpayers, we're paying a lot of money to landfill, recycle,
and burn all that packaging waste. So the bill will
require companies to pay a fee for their packaging. The
fee is lower if their packaging is better for the
(30:21):
environment and the fee will be used to reimburse municipalities
for the cost of waste management of that packaging. So
to put this into perspective, New York City alone is
spending almost half a billion every year to export their
municipal solid waste. And as I said, packaging and paper
products make up forty percent of the waste stream. This
(30:44):
is a bigger topic, this economic topic. But we have
a report on our website that really dives into the
taxpayer savings for this bill, the Packaging Reduction and Recycling
Infrastructure Act. So if you go to our website beyond
Plastic stock Org and hit Publications, you can see how
much all the regions in New York stand to save
(31:07):
with this bill. So those are the big points of
the bill.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
How is the bill coming along? Where is it at
in the process is my question.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
I'm really pleased to share that as of today, we
have a majority of co sponsors in the Assembly, so
that is really excited. That is good news. So we
know it would pass if it went to the floor
for a vote. We have to get the Assembly Speaker
hasty to let the bill move. It's currently sitting in
the Codes Committee, which is chaired by Assembly Member Jeff Dinowitz.
(31:41):
I'm confident that he will bring it up for a
vote in codes, but then it has to go through
a couple more committees before it gets to the floor.
But that's really important that we have that majority of
co sponsors in the Senate. We're just three co sponsors
away from a majority. We have twenty nine, we need three.
We need thirty two for a majority. But it passed
the Senate last year on the last day of session.
(32:03):
It was very dramatic.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Pete Hawkom is my my my representative Chris and Chris Verdick,
and they're you know, they're both very pro environment extremely.
Speaker 6 (32:15):
So is this local legislation or a national This.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Is a state This is a state bill. I'd be
happy to talk about national bills. So anyway, if you're
listening and you're in New York State, call your Assembly member,
call your senator, call Assembly Speaker Carl Hasty, and say
let's get the packaging bill done.
Speaker 7 (32:34):
Yeah, we have anything going? Since I'm in California, do
we have anything happening.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
Here California recently? So, California has an extended Producer Responsibility law.
It's called SB fifty four, and they this was passed
a few years ago, and the state has been working
on the regulations for that bill for two years and
(33:00):
Governor Gavin Newsom just sent them back to the drawing
board very unexpectedly and told them to start over. So
I'm not sure what the latest is on that. There's
a lot of advocates working on that. But I would
call the governor and you know, ask him not to
hamstring SB fifty four the way he's doing.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
I'm wondering why, because he's a fairly liberal.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
I I could conjecture I think it's political, but I'm
not going to because I don't want to stray into
electoral politics because that's not my realm.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Yeah, everything is political.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Everything is political, and I do work on politics, but
I can't talk about electoral politics.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
So yeah, no, well we'll stay away from that. But
you know, we have we know which states are on
board with a lot of things to try to get
you know, these particular things past. But then there's you know,
the other states and they do not, which doesn't make
sense because a lot of what is you know, all
(34:07):
the toxicity and fumes and everything are in areas where
less served areas or lower income areas or you know,
and you would think that the representatives would know that,
but they're in, you know, with the plastic producers and
the chemical producers, and you see the factory spewing, and
(34:30):
then you see a house you know, two blocks away
and the family there's cancer, you know, And then they go,
why do these so many of these, you know, people
near four blocks away?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Have you know cancer?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I mean, it's you know, it's hard to just put
in your mind why this just continually happens and nothing
gets really done.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
But but in New York, we're trying.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
You know, I could see, you know that if we
get to this, it'll be really really good.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
So what about that Bigger Bottle Bill? What is that about?
Speaker 5 (35:04):
So the Bigger, Better Bottle Bill would expand the state's
current deposit return law. So in New York, we have
a five cent deposit on certain beverage containers. It was
enacted in nineteen eighty two, so it's been a while
and the nickel isn't what it was back in nineteen
eighty two. So the Bigger, Better Bottle Bill would raise
(35:25):
the deposit, the fully refundable deposit, to ten cents and
that's to encourage people to redeem their bottles and cans.
These are recyclable containers. This is the best recycling law
we have in the state. Raising it to ten cents,
it's estimated would increase our redemption to ninety percent, So
(35:45):
we're at about sixty mid sixties for redemption right now.
That would recover literally billions of containers from the waste
stream every year. And it would also support marginalized workers
who collect deposit containers for a living. They're called canners.
Many of them are in New York City and they
(36:07):
they if you live in New York City, you know,
people go around and grab the containers and collect them
from from the trash. That's why they support themselves. And
these are people who can't get income in other ways.
They have barriers to employment, and they deserve a raise
because they're they're earning on average five dollars an hour
(36:28):
doing this work and that's how they are able to
support themselves.
Speaker 7 (36:32):
Is there anywhere I mean I used to do that
when when my kids were younger, but I would give
the bottles back to the places that I bought them,
like for the markets or you know, like we had
rows or Vaughan's. All of a sudden, Ralphs and Vaughns
didn't take them back. You had to give them to
a deposit center. And what happened there is you brought
(36:54):
the bottles back, but you had to wait on long lines.
So it becomes to the point it doesn't pay right.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
Well, something else this bill does would is it would
increase what's called the handling fee, which is a fee
that the beverage manufacturers pay for redemption centers and retailers
to take the bottles back. And that's how redemption centers
earn their money because they don't get anything from the deposit.
They get a three cent fee for every can from
(37:28):
the beverage manufacturer. So the Bigger, Better Bottle Bill would
raise that handling fee to six cents, and that would
support redemption centers because they are not able to continue
operating on just a three cent fee. And more than
one hundred redemption centers have closed in just the past
year in New York State because they can't afford to
(37:48):
stay open. So these are small businesses that are handling
a huge recycling stream in New York State that are
at risk of closing, which would make redemption even more
inconvenient for consumers, and basically the system is at the
breaking point, which is why we need the bigger, better
(38:09):
bottle bill to save it and you know, keep the
waste out of landfills.
Speaker 7 (38:15):
And it seems simpler if there was some sort of
bill that would require the larger supermarkets to redeem.
Speaker 5 (38:22):
They are required if you sell it, you're required to
take it back according to the law, and if they're
not taking it back, then that's an enforcement issue, and
DC needs to enforce retailers taking bottles back that they sell.
Speaker 6 (38:37):
I know.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
In New York, this is just in New York, though,
I would love to have a national bottle bill.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
That would be that would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I mean, I don't know, so what what's happening on
the on the national front, then, certainly on the.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
National front, I wish I had better news right now.
It's whack a mole to prevent bad legislation from passing,
and just too we can to prevent the situation from
getting worse. One issue we're really worried about is the
issue of chemical recycling. Chemical recycling is an umbrella term
(39:13):
for technologies that are being promoted by the plastics industry
and they say that this is better than mechanical recycling.
They lie and say that this can infinitely recycle plastics,
But the truth is that chemical recycling mostly turns plastic
into fuel to be burned, and in the rare cases
(39:35):
where it does turn plastic into new plastic, it's so
inefficient that most of the a lot of the material
is lost and new plastic has to be added to
the mix in order for it to have the integrity
that it needs as a material to actually be made
into something. So chemical recycling is the smoke and mirror's illusion.
(39:59):
That's an intensive, wasteful, polluting, expensive that the industry is
parading around to prevent plastic bands. But the threat is
that a national bill will come up to deregulate chemical
recycling technologies and exempt them from the Clean Air Act.
(40:20):
So currently the Clean Air Act regulates two of the
most common chemical cycling technologies, pyrolysis and gasification as incineration,
so it doesn't prohibit those technologies, but if you use them,
you have to have a Title five air permit, you
have to follow emissions regulations, you have to have all
(40:40):
these regulations affecting you know, the pollutants that you're putting
into the air, but industry wants to deregulate chemical recycling
and unleash it. As Lezelden says.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I think, yeah, it's it's just mind boggling that they
want to get rid of Clean Air Act, clean Water Act,
anything that's going to make people healthier and won't destroy
you know, the environment. And you just you shake your
(41:15):
head like why, like why why?
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I mean, just to line the pockets of these.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Chemical companies is why. I mean, and and then just
control us. I mean it just I mean, what is
beyond plastics thinking about what's happening at the e PA.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Now, I mean do they have a stance on that.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
Not thrilled, of course not.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
But I mean once they do this, and then how
do we when sanity might return, if ever, you know,
to get this all back?
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Then then I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Once it's gone, sometimes it's hard to you know, get.
Speaker 5 (41:53):
To get to get things back. So I think it's
very overwhelming. It's overwhelming to hear about this kind of thing.
But the solution to feeling overwhelmed is to take action
that can help you feel more empowered and like you
have some control. So taking action locally is the most
effective thing that people can do to prevent more pollution.
(42:15):
So getting involved at the town level, the city level,
the county level, you can block You can block new
projects at that level, and you can pass laws to
hamstring existing projects at that level. But it really does
(42:36):
take local organizing and advocacy. We have a training for
people who are interested in that beyond plastics dot org
slash trainings if you want to learn how to become
an advocate and take action where you are.
Speaker 7 (42:51):
Are you doing anything to educate the younger kids, I
mean from high school to college or even younger of
what's happening.
Speaker 5 (42:59):
We do work with college students. We have a course
on plastic pollution at Bennington College. We also teach a
course on plastics and health or my former colleague, Megan
Wolf teaches it. Rather she's not with us with they
on plastics anymore, but she teaches still teaches the course
(43:19):
for kids and children. There are other organizations that are
doing great work for that. We're more focused on advocacy
to pass laws. We do focus on education, but grassroots
advocacy our is our main focus.
Speaker 7 (43:35):
It seems like I think the children shall lead us.
It's they're the ones that are going to inherit the
world after we leave. I don't know about you, you're
still young, but after I leave, you know, this is
what we leave for the future generations.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
It's a tough one, boy. I gotta tal you.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
It makes me, you know, every day wonder where this
is all heading. I mean, you know, on an individual basis,
there's things you could do and don't buy single use plastic.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
And do you think.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
That within any of these laws or regulations coming up,
that they'll actually.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Ban single use plastic?
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Is that something you're trying to get done just like completely,
Like no, I can't use it anymore. Like they banned
single use plastic bags. We were the first town in Newcastle.
Newcastle was the first town in New York State to
have a single use ban completely. And so yeah, I mean,
and this is what you're talking about, local level, you know, grassroots,
(44:37):
and they used our model. Other towns in New York
used it and then finally went the whole state. But
you know, that's what kind of stuff you need.
Speaker 5 (44:47):
Yeah. I think bands are possible, and I think about
our future is possible, no matter how gloomy it feels now.
I think imagining about our world is really really important.
Imagining the world that you want to see and then
aligning your decision making with that. And remember, you know
(45:08):
you're not alone in this. You don't have to do
all of this by yourself. Connection and community is really important.
Find people to do this with you, find a group
to join, find a coalition to join, go to a meeting,
like you said, and just take action. And even if
your action fails, I have done so many grassroots actions
(45:30):
that failed, that didn't go anywhere, that never made an impact,
but I was like, Okay, what can I try next?
Just try something else, And the act of trying is
really empowering and is really what.
Speaker 7 (45:41):
Matters, right curiosity, Are there any other countries in the
world that are more educated than we are doing things?
Speaker 5 (45:52):
I can't answer that.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah, I think there's a lot, especially the Nordic Scandinavian
countries there in a different level.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
I mean even Paris now, and even you know.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
In France they're they're becoming a lot more aware and
doing things to help the environment.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (46:10):
Before we have to go, I just want to thank
you very much for your work and and and hope
you'll continue because I know it must be very frustrating
at times.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
What else am I going to do? I have no
choice but to keep trying, in my view, and thanks
for having me, and please go to our website beyond
plastics dot org if you want to learn more. We've
got publications, events, learn how to get involved if you're
interested in the plastic pollution issue.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, we all have to do that and take, you know,
something else within us to as you said, to the
act of trying and just you got to keep it up.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
And we can't just stop and hide on the desk.
You know.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
I don't know how many shows I've said I'm hiding
under my desk now in January and February and I
was like, okay, I'm out of my desk now.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
It's not going to have a little hiding under your
desk as a treat, that's right, a little bit every day.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
And bring my my my my short bread cookie.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
You know.
Speaker 7 (47:10):
It's like life is getting so much more complicated than
when I was in my twenties or teens.
Speaker 6 (47:17):
I mean, certain things that we would fight for well.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
And now people are fighting as we're speaking right now.
Just so don't give up hope right now as we
are taping this show.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
There are thousands and thousands and.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Thousands of people around this country showing up in the streets.
So just use that in your brain as a positive
that you know, we're not going to take it.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
You know that that's we're not gonna. We did that.
We did that song right with Twisted.
Speaker 5 (47:48):
You're not gone. We did.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
We use that a few a few weeks ago. We
keep picking different songs. I'm trying to get people motivated,
you know.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Uh So, But anyway, so thank you so much. You're
doing incredible work. Beyond Plastics does just great outreach and
communication and uh everyone should you know, go to their website.
And also if you have money, donate to them because
we need them, you know, to stay around and anything helps, right,
I think in that in that aspect as well, I'll
(48:19):
be the one making them donate. So but anyway, thank
you again for coming on. I know I would love
to have you back, uh and to talk about this morning.
Speaker 6 (48:29):
What are you doing next week?
Speaker 5 (48:31):
And we have our lobby day next week May on Wednesday,
So all right, there's still.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Room on the busy.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, all right, go to Beyond Plastics dot org and
you'll get more information about that, so again, thank you
and thanks for joining us for the many Shades of Green.
For more shows and info, go to Hudson River Radio
dot com, Malcolm Presents dot com and Themny Shades of
Green dot com. Uh send us your thoughts via email
to Greenworld Radio dot com, follow us on Instagram, Facebook,
(49:03):
and threads and now blue scratche Skott Blue Sky I'm Sorry,
which is a new, a newer social media thing. Shout
out to Neil back there for all his help and
always getting the show out, and Brian and Malcolm for
their help as well. Remember to pic Achete of green
and raise your eco consciousness and social consciousness.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
We got to add that. I'm Maxine Margot Rubin and
we'll see you again next time.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Hudson River Radio dot com
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