Consider the Octopus - Engaging Youth w/ Gae Polisner and George Polisner

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hudson River Radio dot com.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hello out there in podcast land and beyond, Maxine Margaret
Rubin along with my co host Malcolm Bermant, And this
is the Many Shades of Green, a program that adds
a dash of green into your life as we engage
in conversation that moves to inform, educate, activate, and raise
your eco consciousness and social consciousness. We really have to

(00:42):
raise that now. Through culture, politics, music, art books, art,
science and community, we hope to inspire you to pick
a shade of green and become a steward of this beautiful,
blue green planet we call Earth. So I'm going to
say Height of Malcolm Mountain, La La Land and hight
to George and and uh well wherever Portugal and hide

(01:07):
a gay out in the island which is Long Island.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
And we got Neil back there, uh, who's not far
from me. Were we're close? So uh you know, I
was thinking of songs because we we're gonna touch on
octopuses again because it kind of just creeped in here.
And uh, I didn't want to play Octopus's Garden because
we used it last time, So thinking of a song,

(01:35):
and I wanted to play and and Neil found it
for me. Walk on the ocean by Toad the wet Sprocket.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
We spotted the ocean.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
On the weell goever.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Sow some bads.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Me, this is this.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
Very Thing's better, everything safe, welcome.

Speaker 5 (02:16):
Your shot, step on the storm. Let's be gold fo.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
Half an hour letter backed up on things sad with
said letters don lost little things we knew were relon.

Speaker 5 (02:50):
They smiled just the sad.

Speaker 6 (02:54):
See him the letter God.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
We came.

Speaker 5 (03:02):
Walk up shine step shu.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Step so Toad the wet Sprocket, toads you know who

(03:46):
would have thunk? I mean, I, I uh. There's one
line we didn't get to, one part of the verse
that says, now back at the homestead, where the air
makes you choke and people don't know you and trust
is a joke. I kind of comes out to me
too with what's going on today, in a separate way.
But anyway, the band just quickly. The name was imagined

(04:09):
by the comedy troupe Monty Python. The group of professional
jokers had created a sketch called rock Notes, in which
a journalist reads out a hilariously nonsensical music news report
about the fictional band. Told the wet Sprocket fictional news. Interesting,

(04:29):
So no, all I can think of was monty python
and one more bite and silly walks. And now told
the wet Sprocket, who'd a thought? So with that, let's
talk about the ocean, which covers approximately seventy percent of
the earth surface. That's a lot. We really can't walk

(04:49):
on it unless there is some divine intervention. Of course,
we can revel in it, and we could walk beside it.
I grew up near the ocean, and I enjoyed a
wonderful childhood on the beach. But I am vexed these
days as the actions of humans are polluting the ocean
and large garbage patches called gyres are swirling around, harming

(05:10):
sea life and a lot of other things. If you
mentioned the gyre to the average person, as I have done,
no one knows what you are talking about. The Fact
that we are literally turning into plastic beings as nano
and microplastics are in our blood doesn't seem to connect
with the majority of humans on Mother Earth. We need

(05:31):
to educate the populace as time is running out. So
let's have a quick lesson on gyres. A gyre is
a massive system of circular ocean currents formed by global
wind patterns and the Earth's rotation. There are five major
oceanic gyers, the North and South Pacific, the North and
South Atlantic, and the Indian Ocean Gyre. These currents move

(05:55):
slowly continuously shaping climate, distributing nutrients, and unform fortunately collecting
our plastic waste. As plastics break down, they enter the
food web. An essence, the plastic pollution concentrated in the
gyers create a toxic and dangerous environment for many marine species,
while simultaneously enabling the establishment of unexpected ecosystems of species

(06:20):
far from their usual habitats. Many species, such as octopuses
we talked about them in the last week's show, so
it's like a return to the octopus eat crustaceans and
small fish that may have already ingested these pollutants. Over time,
toxins can build up in their bodies, threatening their health
and hours if we eat them. Many animals mistake plastic

(06:44):
debris for food, filling their stomachs with indigestible materials, leading
to starvation or internal injuries. Lager Head see Turtles often
mistake plastic bags for jellyfish, they preferred prey albatross's mistake
plastic pellow for fish eggs and feed them through their chicks,
resulting in starvation or organ rupture. This is all fantastic, No,

(07:06):
it's not. The Houdinas of the sea. Octopuses are highly
adaptable and can slip through tiny crevices, change color, mimic
other animals, and use tools. But bad things happen when
their watery homes are impacted by gyrs as they become
garbage traps. So, although octopuses and as thousands of other

(07:28):
sea creatures need to be protected, and us humans need
to work harder to preserve the oceans for sea life
in all life, so on Today's podcast. In addition to
George Pallisner are resident political analysts, e activists, curmudgeon and
founder of Sieve dot Works. I always emphasize curmudgeon. We

(07:49):
have gay Pollisner sounds like the similar last name. Author
of young adult and adult book novels. She is also
a practicing family law attorney and mediator. She has co
authored a book with Nora Raleigh Baskin titled Consider the
Octopus Again, Bringing Up Also Us, which is a heartfelt

(08:10):
story about friendship and an empowering call to environmental protection,
especially to young people who are already stepping up to
help save our oceans and our earth because we need
them badly. So welcome Gay, Welcome George to the many
shades of Green. I'm so glad to have you on
the program. So we have to start off, and I'm

(08:33):
gonna go to you Gay first. What is your shade
of green? Right now?

Speaker 7 (08:39):
Thank you for having me and letting George horn in
on my session. I actually had to think about that
a lot, because I figure with all the shows you've had,
a lot of the shades of green have been taken,
and I went for the very literal but also existing
shade of leaf green because I am spending an awful

(09:06):
lot of time in my yard, which is full of gardens.
I live in a very small, modest house and have
more flowers than anyone human beings should have here, and
that's one of the things that bringing me a lot
of peace lately. Although it's also often too hot.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, that's just really hot out there. God admit it's crazy.
I don't know. I just I can't even take my
dog out during the day. It's it's dangerous yeah, for
both of us actually, so yes, I'm glad you have
a wonderful garden. That's that's you know, we always try
to push on the show that people should have less

(09:42):
lawn and more gardens or meadows and native plants and stuff,
you know, to to not have pesticides and fertilizers put
in that are you know, dangerous to the floor of
the fauna. The intexts. You know, you get in rid
of ticks, yeah, you're getting rid of mosquitoes. Yeah, but
you're getting rid of all the intentional pollinators essentially, which

(10:05):
if we lose them, goodbye. You know, it's not that
difficult to go over. So all right, so we got
you a leafy green and I got to answer you George,
of course, come on, so give us a good one.

Speaker 6 (10:18):
So I I was singing about this, and you know,
the last few shows it's been darkness just while the
idiocracy continues. But actually I was making coffee for tomorrow
and it just struck me that, oh my gosh, I
have a sense of optimism if I'm actually doing something
thinking I'm gonna be waking up tomorrow. And so I

(10:42):
thought coffee being green because I've hit this optimistic patch
or perhaps the meds are kicking in.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
I don't know my men's are kicking in somehow I
wish they were kicking more, right, But that's good. I
like that. I'll like hearing you have some optimism. Is
that it's like a miracle.

Speaker 8 (11:02):
Remind me that.

Speaker 9 (11:02):
Well, what you started talking reminds me of the Garfuncle
Hollo Darkness, my old friend.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Right.

Speaker 9 (11:11):
But anyway, when you were talking about the water pollute,
you know, the water pollution and what's happening, it brought
me back, like about seventy years ago. That has been
the problem of people and the water since I was
a teenager earlier, because I remember, as everybody knows I'm
from Coney Island, every June or before, there was always waters.

(11:36):
There's always stories in the paper. Don't go in the watercourse,
it's polluted. Don't go in the watercourse, it is polluted.
And what happened. The ocean was a dumping ground for
all the garbage, and the sanitation department would take the
tugs go out. I don't know how many miles into
the ocean, dump all the junk out with that thing.

(12:00):
Thinking about it, when the tithes were change it would
bring all the garbage back on shore, and I saw
all of it. So again, what's happening now in a
greater extent because it's more of it in different products,
but has been going on since I can remember and abuse.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
It's it's something that we all need to pay attention to,
which is why Gay, I mean, how did you start?
You know, you write books for adults, but for young adults,
and you bring forth uh topics about environmental protection, which
is so important. I mean I listened to a little
of your h You did a podcast with this young

(12:44):
man each train Ethan. He is unbelievable.

Speaker 10 (12:51):
He's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
I was, I was, this kid's gonna he's gonna be
something else. Man, he already is something else. Uh these art.

Speaker 10 (13:00):
Articulates shout out to train.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
He shout out to train because you know I was listening.
I got through. I didn't hear the entire thing, but
enough to give me, you know, your incredible a and
this kid is like what? So anyway, I just want.

Speaker 7 (13:16):
To have a regular segment now on Good Morning Sacramento.
I believe, Okay, he's he's and he's thirteen years old.
He's he's and started when he was like nine or ten,
and his mom actually does a really good job of
keeping on it, being the barrier of his accounts as well.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
So right, yeah, so so he you know, you this
his this podcast you did with him, you were discussing
Consider the Octopus, which is a book geared to younger readers.
So how does all this like come together? How do
you know, you started writing these books and you're you're
also a an attorney family law, So how did it's

(13:56):
all come together for you?

Speaker 7 (13:59):
I mean, you know, those questions are sometimes hard to
answer in retrospect. We're just little mice on wheels, and
things happen and we go. But with particular regard to
Consider the Octopus, what had happened is that I have
a dear friend, Nora Rally Baskin, and she writes primarily
middle grade books, and I write primarily young adult novels.

(14:21):
And right after the twenty sixteen election, I can't imagine why,
we were both having a hard time writing and focusing
and concentrating, and we were like, maybe we'll write something
together and that will help us to focus and concentrate,
And in fact it did, and so we wrote a
middle grade novel because that is her leaning and we

(14:43):
thought that's where we'd like to go. We wrote a
beautiful littleook called Seven Clues to Home, and that novel
got picked up and published. And though it was a
wonderful experience, Naur and I had also written a couple
other manuscripts together, and I really needed a break and
needed to go back to it's hard to create a

(15:04):
personalities working together every day, and as you guys know,
and so I was like, Okay, we're going to take
a little break and I'm going to go back to
writing some of my stuff.

Speaker 10 (15:15):
And I was actually in the car.

Speaker 7 (15:18):
Driving to the open water where I'm an open water
swimmer and swim several days a week, and I was
listening to WNYC and they were doing a story on
the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, which I had heard of
but knew very little or nothing about. And I'm listening

(15:38):
to this story both wrapped and disturbed, and my phone
rings and I answer it and it's Nora. And Nora
says to me, turn on WNYC. And I said to
her the story about the Great Pacific Garbage Patch and
she's like, yes, we have to write a book set there.

Speaker 10 (15:58):
And so there was so in considered the Octopus.

Speaker 7 (16:02):
One of the themes that is kind of recurring is the
theme of synchronicity, and it's one of the places we
went because from the very outset of writing the book,
there was an element of synchronicity taking place that we
were both listening and inspired to that by that same
story about the Great Pacific garbage Patch. So that's how
considered the octopus.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
So so you you definitely the connection you both have
it is like esp at this point a little bit. Yeah,
you know, it seems like you both picked up on that,
like and you were listening. Yeah, that's that's that's a sign.
So I didn't I didn't look read the book. I
didn't read the book. But what what does the octopus

(16:42):
have to do with this? I'm just curious because because
the letter, again, this is the second show in a
role that that octopus seemed to be upfront and you know,
up close and personal, or or tentacles and and ink
blue blood and you know, or three hearts. They have
three hearts. They're an incredible species there. They're literally considered

(17:03):
aliens because a lot of the genomes are not you know,
you can't find them anywhere else.

Speaker 7 (17:12):
So I'm going to disappoint both of you because there
are no octopuses, and consider the octopus, and it has
nothing to do with an octopus. Consider the octopus. That's
so I can't answer your question. I know I think
they do have several hearts. You are correct, they do
consider the octopus. The manuscript in our computers was called

(17:34):
the Great PGP, which is for the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.
And when we sold the book to the publisher, they wanted,
for various reasons, as they do, to change the title,
and we kept giving titles, and they didn't like any
of the titles. And consider the Octopus is a nod
to David Foster Wallace's Consider the Lobster, which for some

(17:58):
reason they liked that title. But the reason we even
could go there is, although there is no real octopus
and consider the octopus, there is a mission, a secret
mission that the kids go on that is called Code
Pink Octopus.

Speaker 10 (18:15):
That's the name of their.

Speaker 7 (18:16):
Secret mission to save the ship and the ocean. It
will just help you quickly if I tell you that
consider the octopus. When Nora and I had that phone
call and she was like, we have to write this book.
I said to her, Sure, we can write a book
about ocean plastics, but the only rule is that it
has to be funny, because it isn't ocean plastics hilarious,

(18:40):
But it was still the pandemic politics in the world.
And I just felt like I wanted if I was
going to write a book that was going to be
about a heavy issue, I wanted to give kids something.
I wanted them to be able to laugh and learn,
learn and laugh. And I don't write to teach. I
write to entertain and to draw kids into a story.

(19:01):
And so that was the rule I made. So Consider
the Octopus is a farce. It's about a thirteen year
old boy named Jeremy who gets hauled onto a research
ship for this summer because his mom is the chief
scientist on the ship and they are trying to come
up with a way to clean the Great Pacific garbage patch.
And Jeremy, who is not doesn't think of himself as

(19:24):
super smart. He's kind of the class clown, class cut up.
Is enlisted. He's given all the tools, the email, the names,
and they enlist him to do what he knows how
to do well, which is to get online and locate
a bunch of scientists and invite them to a summit.
And one of the scientists is a doctor, Sidney Miller,

(19:46):
who is the marine biologist at the Monterey Bay Aquarium.
But he comes across a pink octopus icon for a
podcast that's actually run by a twelve year old girl
named Sidney Miller, and he, yeah, she has the reasons
to want to come on her. Nana helps her with
the setup, and so it's a literal comedy of errors.

(20:08):
When he realizes his mistake, he doesn't want anyone to
find out, so he sneaks her on board. And what
they figure out is that there's synchronicity at work and
maybe a bigger reason to be there, and maybe they
can help save the mission, to help figure out a
way to clean up this garbage, and that mission is
code Pink Octopus because of her pink octopus avatar that

(20:30):
is on her podcast.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
So I have to get in here because I was
waiting for too long.

Speaker 6 (20:38):
What Gay and Nora did this is really kind of
the synopsis of the Pete Hegsith phone call, inviting the
wrong inviting a journalist onto a signal call, and so
it's really was this was well ahead of its time,
So congratulations.

Speaker 7 (20:54):
Yes, Pete copied us, and I'm not sure if I
should be proud of that.

Speaker 6 (21:01):
Well, you know, the other thing too, is and talking
about synchronicity. Consider the Lobster, which is a collection of
short stories by David Foster Wallace is one of the
it has in it. I think it's called the Usage Wars,
which is a story about this horrific fight. English professors

(21:22):
and scholars are getting into about how word usage evolves
throughout history, and it's absolutely it's such a dry topic
and it's it is a hilarious treatment. So Consider the
Lobster was always one of my favorites, and so when
I heard Consider the Octopus, I was like, well, of course.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Right, it's uh, you know when you try to write something,
you know you have to pick the point where you know, hey,
I need to discuss that. And you got this from
the w NYC, which I hope you know now gets
funded somehow. So I employ anybody to if they can
donate to public broadcasting, whatever your station is, they're gonna

(22:02):
need us right now because the government sort of I
don't even know what it is anymore. I can't even
use that phrase, it is or regime.

Speaker 6 (22:16):
The other thing I was going to point out, And
it's really interesting to hear Gay talk about her writing
style because I've often thought the best way to help
educate and inform people is to encapsulate really important messages
in entertainment. Make it funny, make it snarky, because it

(22:37):
lowers people's defenses, and it doesn't matter if you're a
young adult or an old guy. It lowers people's defenses
and it allows you to look at something and even
see your own behavior and laugh at yourself. I mean
that All in the Family Norman lear Is All in
the Family was brilliant at taking these characters and helping

(22:58):
people see how ridiculous some of the stuff was. But
when you talk about entertainment and entertaining stories, you know,
if you think about some of the topics that are
that run core central to a lot of the books
you've written, there are things like grief and mental illness,
and love and loyalty and guilt and loss and so

(23:18):
oh no, wait, that was a political article I wrote earlier.
Now these are these are the themes that you write about,
which is pretty unusual for young adult literature. And you've
won a number of awards because it is very innovative
in terms of taking these really important concepts and making
them accessible to youth and make them feel less alone

(23:41):
and supported. And I know you've also participated in a
number of classrooms and have had a lot of great
feedback from students and teachers.

Speaker 9 (23:51):
You remind me of what you're talking about the song
from I Think It's a Chitty Chitty Bank Bank, A
spoonful of sugar, make some medicine go down.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
No, that's I don't think.

Speaker 10 (24:05):
Spoonful of sugar.

Speaker 8 (24:06):
Yeah, that's what you're talking about.

Speaker 9 (24:08):
You're making something that's really serious but making it entertaining
enough for people to listen to it.

Speaker 10 (24:16):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 7 (24:17):
And also, like I like I said, I just wanted,
I mean some of the in my opinion, the best
way we've learned throughout history is through humor, through letting
people laugh at our our foibles and and worse. And
because our kids have just had such a heavy decade,

(24:40):
I just said, like, what if I did something really
funny that also inspired them to do better? So I'm
glad I made a choice because a lot of my
books there's always.

Speaker 10 (24:52):
Humor in my books.

Speaker 7 (24:52):
But but they certainly cover some pretty heavy issues.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
How do you see the kids? I know, you go
into classrooms. I know you know you inspire, You're very active,
and you promote activism. Do you see the kids like
I know again, I'll say, e training there, you know,
getting those younger kids to be proactive. They are the future.
When what do you see when you interact with the youth.

Speaker 7 (25:20):
I never feel more hopeful than when I walk out
of a school. I never feel more hopeful than hearing
the kids who still love to read, the kids who
still want to make their world better, the kids who
have open hearts and minds about everything. Yeah, that's how

(25:45):
I feel.

Speaker 10 (25:46):
I think.

Speaker 7 (25:46):
I think the kids are all right. It's just a
matter of what we leave them to work with.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, it's you know, you always got to think of
what how to approach it, you know, especially you know,
post pandemic. During the pandemic, I can't imagine having young kids, like,
what were you doing? How did you deal with it?
I mean I was you know. You know, my son's
a big guy and he's getting married next month, but

(26:14):
during a pandemic, you know, he was in the city
by himself, in an apartment in the village and we
were up here in beautiful downtown Chapelqua, and uh, I
just had to see him. I had to make sure
we would, you know, go in minimally twice a month
and stay you know, six feet apart and walk around

(26:35):
the village. And we were all everyone walking around like
you looked at people's faces who were actually trying to
be outside for a little bit, and we're just like what,
you know, what are we doing? And how do we
get through this? And we got through it and now
people are just kind of forgetting. I mean, I, I,
you know, didn't have COVID for five and a half years,
and I thought, hey, I'm great, I'm gravy and I

(26:57):
go on a trip to the e you and lo
and behold come back in. It's COVID city for me.
And you know, I'm still kind of in it a bit.
And it's like crazy, but you know, the idea of
getting kids to be more active and where do you
direct them to do that?

Speaker 3 (27:16):
So I.

Speaker 7 (27:17):
Do also want to say this because it's something that
what you were talking about just it's such a painful
thing and I'm trying to figure out whether it's social
media or something else.

Speaker 10 (27:29):
That's the difference.

Speaker 7 (27:29):
But I also wrote a book about nine to eleven
and one of the things in the nine to eleven book.
That book is called the Memory of Things, and one
of the things is how we all came together after
nine to eleven happened. And yes there was the rise
of Islamophobia. There were absolutely that was probably the most

(27:50):
negative aspect something negative book. For the most part, people
wanted to help. They wanted to know what they could do.
If the government told us to do crazy things like
take our shoes off and that was going to make
our neighbors safer, we did it. We checked on people.
And so it's been really interesting with these kids with
the pandemic because I because we didn't see the same

(28:14):
thing at all.

Speaker 10 (28:14):
We didn't see put on your.

Speaker 7 (28:16):
Mask if it helps people. We saw no masks. No,
we saw such a division of how people. Half of
us wanted to help one another and protect one another,
but half of us became anti vax, anti mask, anti science.
And to me, that is such a concerning difference about

(28:38):
how our world deals with tragedy and teaches our kids
to cope with tragedy.

Speaker 8 (28:46):
What age group are you talking about? Kids?

Speaker 7 (28:48):
So the memory of things would be young adults, so
that would be ages twelve and up, and consider the
octopuses like ages eight and nine through twelve younger group
for a younger group.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, it's funny because my mom used to like reading
in her eighties and nineties books geared to young adults.
So it's time for a break. Obviously, we'll be back
with George Paulisner and Gay Pollisner to talk more about
the state of things and books and the environment, so
please stay tuned.

Speaker 7 (29:17):
Hudson Riverradio dot com.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com, Hudson River Radio
dot com.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
And we are back with George Paulisner and Gay Pallisner,
author and attorney and all around like awesome person talking
about the environment, the state of the world which is
kind of crazy right now, and maybe you know, hopefully
educating people, educating younger children about how they can do

(30:17):
things to help. So just please subscribe to podcasts and
all major podcast apps. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram
at Tmshades of Green and on Blue Sky at Tmshadesogreen
dot b s k Y. That's social So I'm gonna
gonna hand it over to George because he had a

(30:38):
question for Gay, and because we were picking it up
from where we left off, so George take it away.

Speaker 6 (30:45):
Well. We were talking as and Gay was expressing concern
which was very valid, about the fact that often during
natural disasters and tragedies, the American people have come together.
I mean, whether it was Katrin, horrible hurricanes or earthquakes
or fires, people have just and certainly nine to eleven

(31:09):
people got together. We were talking a little bit about
w I didn't have too many good things to say
about his administration, but there was humanity in terms of
I think there was genuine concern. He was surrounded by
a lot of advisors that were recycled Reagan people who

(31:30):
were inherently, from my perspective, criminal, certainly war criminals like
Henry Kissinger. But I think that one of the things
that we saw in residents ex presidents getting together like
the Obamas getting together with the Bushes, was that shared

(31:51):
humanity that we saw in times of in times of
disaster and national tragedy. And Gay was talking to about
her book Memory of the Memory of Things, which which
was beautifully written about nine to eleven and the experiences
of some New York youth during that period of time,

(32:15):
and we were looking at comparing that to the pandemic
that began and the differences that we saw in the
reaction of society that instead of people recognizing this was
horribly contagious, deadly, there was no vaccine or no cure,

(32:39):
people were going on ventilators, hospital emergency facilities and ICUs
were being overrun. Doctors, nurses, frontline people were being driven
to the absolute brinkworking twenty four hours a day trying
to help and support people. But we saw the beginning

(33:01):
of a very large divide in American society, and a
lot of that was based upon leadership and how leadership
responded and modeled behavior for all of society. And so
when when you have a president that basically gets in front,

(33:21):
gets in front of and addresses the nation with you know,
this is a horrible tragedy. We need to pull together.
We're working on solutions, but this is a time that
tests all of us, and we need to come together
for the sake of our neighbors and our communities and
the nation itself. People respond to that, But when you

(33:42):
have leadership that says this is a hoax, the pandemic
is no different than the flu. This is a democratic
political attempt to shut down the economy and make me
look bad. This was from China, This was from their
lab and it was attack. I remember to emphasize China
in a very derisive way. And so this is what

(34:05):
people heard, and so it it basically stirred up all
of these anti public health, anti vaxxers, people that thought
the whole thing was was a made up fake news.
And it creates, it creates divide, it polarizes society, and
it instills a great deal of hate and horrific behavior.

(34:29):
And so I mean, that's that's really the difference is.
And it's not about political ideology, because you could see
throughout history both Republican presidents and democratic presidents addressing the
nation at times of tragedy and bringing people together. This

(34:49):
is a This is a president and administration that thrives
on dividing, polarizing, and therefore anchoring, misdirecting society by creating hate,
fostering division as a way to misdirect away from the
the corruption, UH, the rating of the treasury, UH, the

(35:14):
what they've done in terms of this big beautiful tax bill,
UH cutting health care access off to millions of Americans. UH,
in order to pay for continuing tax cuts for the
wealthy and for corporations rounding nut people in state sponsored kidnappings, UH, disappearances,

(35:36):
working with a supremely corrupted court, getting shadow docket decisions,
and shutting down the Education Department. This is a government
that thrives on polarization, division, UH and fostering, fostering hate
among American society. So it's not a government that's going
to bring people together during during a disaster. And God

(35:59):
help us if if we have a national tragedy or disaster.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
UH.

Speaker 6 (36:04):
I mean we've seen it with UH. I think there
were fires burning out of control in the Grand Canyon.
We saw the Texas floods, which is another segment that
I'll probably never get.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
There getting to that, I can assure you that at
this point, your optimism has just ten literally. So I'm
gonna get you out of this right now, and I'm
gonna I'm gonna ask a couple of questions, because I think.

Speaker 6 (36:31):
It turned dark. Did I turn you turned to.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
The dark side at that point, Not that it didn't
need to be, you know, we had to say it
at least in the show, because otherwise our fans will
go like, George didn't say anything, Look what's going on here?

Speaker 8 (36:45):
Georgia usual self sounds the curmudgeon.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
The curmudgeon came out. So so I have two things.
What what are you coming out with?

Speaker 6 (36:55):
Now?

Speaker 2 (36:56):
What's your subject matter? That's kind of that's your Q
and up? And then I'm gonna ask about storytelling and
what you know you are a storyteller. And then other
artists in your family, because this is what George was
kind of, you know, bringing up. So let's start with
what's up in the queue for you next, and then

(37:16):
about the art.

Speaker 7 (37:18):
So I don't know what's up in the queue in
terms of technical logistics, because publishing is changing and reading
is changing, and libraries are changing and everything. But the
most recent young adult manuscript I have been working on

(37:38):
is a manuscript that is exploring in a humorous and
non didactic, I hope way. It's My books are never
about the issues. They're about the characters and and the
issues just exist in their life the way I do mine.
But it's about social media and this girl who kind
of goes viral on social media and becomes popular, and

(38:02):
at first she loves it, and then it kind of
takes over everything. And then and then, through a series
of events, she starts to appreciate human connection and nature
and those kinds of things. So that is what I
have been working on in a young adult realm. Whether

(38:23):
it ever sees the light of day of publishing for
a million reasons, whoever knows.

Speaker 10 (38:29):
And that's the story of my career anyway.

Speaker 7 (38:31):
Is each of my books, there's never an editor sitting around.
No matter how well my books do or how well
reviewed they are, there's never an editor going gay when
is your next book coming? It's always a battle for
me to find the right editor and get them to
want to publish my books.

Speaker 10 (38:46):
So, but that's what I'm writing.

Speaker 9 (38:49):
One of my favorite questions from people like you, what
do you want to be when you grew up? If
you had your drothers, which direction are you going? What
would you like to do?

Speaker 10 (39:01):
I would like to be better.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
That's a good answer, because we all, you know, we
have our niches and and what we do. And I
mean your attorney. You know, you went to UH school
in the city and you are family attorney. Mostly correct media.
I only do mediation, mediation, okay, mediation now and but
you're writing for you know, young adults and adults on

(39:27):
different topics. And again, you are a storyteller, as I said,
and uh, you know, words that you put together are
are so important because it's literally like the blank slate,
and then you're you're adding to it, put into screenplays.

Speaker 10 (39:46):
I have, I have had a couple of those near missus.

Speaker 7 (39:50):
I did have someone originally option some very small production
company years ago option my first young adult novel that's
called The Pull of gra And they even wrote the
script and we got on a million skype zoom wasn't
around yet, a million.

Speaker 10 (40:07):
Skype meetings to go over the script and everything.

Speaker 7 (40:11):
But like so many of these things, it just sat
on a shelf somewhere. Go yeah, the I actually still
stay in touch with the guys. But one of the
guys was the special effects producer for the big new
Planet of the Apes franchise, not so new anymore, but
the new, not the old Planet of the Apes, and

(40:32):
he took it on as a passion project because he
wanted to move from special effects to just producing. So
he optioned my book for a couple hundred bucks and
we worked on it together.

Speaker 10 (40:45):
But then in the middle of all that, they made.

Speaker 7 (40:47):
Him the producer of all the Planet of the Apes
films and that's what happened to that one.

Speaker 10 (40:54):
And then I had a.

Speaker 7 (40:58):
Hollywood agent take on, actually consider the octopus during the
pandemic and get ready to feel the offers, et cetera.
And that's somewhere out there.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
I'm aware.

Speaker 10 (41:16):
I'll give you my homework.

Speaker 9 (41:18):
Hopefully the time is right now because your book, Yeah,
get a good, perfect topic.

Speaker 8 (41:23):
So what's happening right?

Speaker 2 (41:25):
I mean, I know that feeling having a family as
well in the industry. And my brother, you know, he
wrote a book called The no no Quotient, which is
a science fiction book, and he got props from stan Lee,
you know, he he he wrote it on the back
cover about the book, and we thought everything was gravy, gravy, gravy,
and then he you know, a couple of places were interested, right,

(41:48):
and then, uh, I wish I could do something with
it now. Unfortunately, my brother, you know, look at looking
down now. But uh, you know it's crazy, you know,
the whole the media to team in industry that it's
just nothing. I mean, it's just nothing is the same.

Speaker 8 (42:05):
It's always been that way.

Speaker 9 (42:07):
There's a great book called It's Only You It's Only
You Dick Dairing, which was written I think, I think
I've read it in the sixties.

Speaker 8 (42:14):
Wow.

Speaker 9 (42:15):
It's about Bill Paley going up to this off there
saying I have an idea for a TV show starring
Jackie Cooper and yeah, I see him on a dirt
road on a pickup truck, write me a script. And
they had money behind because Paley was head of CBS.
They had money. But I think like they you said,
ten years after and they spent you know, so many

(42:36):
millions of dollars and the show never got off.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah, well that's not unusual. That's like a tail that
seems to be.

Speaker 8 (42:42):
The same in today's industry.

Speaker 6 (42:44):
So you're in California, can't you hook gay up with
James Cameron.

Speaker 8 (42:49):
If you want, we could work on it. Give me
a call. You have my number, It's.

Speaker 10 (42:53):
Right, Do I want to be hooked up with James Cameron?

Speaker 8 (42:55):
Sorry, James, you have to start calling Jimmy.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Jimmy.

Speaker 8 (43:03):
Oh, you're talking about Jimmy.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Jimmy for a while, he's been he's been around. So
speaking of this, uh, any other artists, I mean in
your family. You seem to have like a vent.

Speaker 7 (43:14):
I come from a family from Yeah, my mom who.

Speaker 10 (43:19):
Now has a.

Speaker 7 (43:23):
Fairly frustrating I was gonna say debilitating but it's not debilitating.
But she has a fairly frustrating non Parkinson's tremor. So
she's an incredible painter. Like if I panned my computer
around my house, you would see.

Speaker 10 (43:38):
Her art work up everywhere. So so I grew.

Speaker 7 (43:41):
Up with art and her art in the house. And
then my husband sings but doesn't play any instruments until
recently he started teaching himself guitar and he practices religiously.
But both of our sons grew up loving music and
watching him sing, and so they are bold singer songwriter musicians.

Speaker 10 (44:02):
But my older son went.

Speaker 7 (44:03):
The education because public education is a fabulous place to
be right now, So he just got his master's in
music ed. But my younger son went out to la
during the pandemic to pursue eighteen months of being a
singer songwriter and see if he could do it. And
he did better than any of us could ever imagine

(44:26):
him doing, and still is struggling to out still, he's
out there still. He ended up with a small record
deal that helped him survive for about a year and
a half, but unfortunately the label.

Speaker 10 (44:40):
Did not live up to their end of the obligations.

Speaker 7 (44:43):
Does that not sound publishers, movie producers and the music industry.
Art and business do not mix. But he's out there writing.
He just wrote his first screenplay and he's writing music
for an animated series that's in the works and trying
to and working at a little juice shop to pay

(45:05):
his money.

Speaker 10 (45:07):
Yeah, I should.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
We need to get him connected to my to my
great nephew because they are on the same path.

Speaker 10 (45:14):
Yeah, yeah, as a.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Matter of fact. But Soli's been doing some work with
the Tokens. You know, he's in his grandfather's footsteps, and
so he's the lead singer of this incarnation to keep
the name alive, so to speak. And he's been doing
music also, and he has stuff on you know, Spotify. Yeah,
you know, it's the same, similar thing, and they're probably

(45:39):
two people who should connect to each other something.

Speaker 7 (45:41):
Holden's great at that too. So his name is Holden Miller.
If you want to listen to his music. He has
a song that is topping fourteen million streams and he
has another one that's stopping five million streams. He's done,
He's done really well. He's a real He's a really
genuine person and a real good go getter and networker,

(46:04):
and usually those two things don't go.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Together, especially musicians.

Speaker 7 (46:09):
He's so he is such a both my boys are awesome,
but Holden is just such a gregarious person. If you say,
have lunch with Joe Schmoe, He's like, what day?

Speaker 10 (46:19):
He never?

Speaker 3 (46:21):
So?

Speaker 10 (46:21):
Yeah, so he I think they should get together.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
I'm like, yeah, here, I would love to. Uh what
do we call that?

Speaker 10 (46:28):
Do we call that? This is terrible?

Speaker 2 (46:30):
My year?

Speaker 6 (46:30):
Isshes?

Speaker 7 (46:30):
So?

Speaker 10 (46:31):
Is that a ship?

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Off it away? Yeah? Somehow it is? But uh, I.

Speaker 10 (46:39):
Don't think I've ever used that word in my life.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
My mom used it a lot. And and speaking of
art work, my mom's aren't work and my brothers aren't
worker all over my house too, So we have a
very similar parallel thing going on here, I think.

Speaker 6 (46:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
And then of course we throw Georgia in somehow, Yeah,
because you know George, Well we just throw George. And
Phil was.

Speaker 6 (47:02):
Countless and so bitter that I have become a mudgeon.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Well Phil was the ultimate curmudgeon. So you are in
good company, you know, I mean I think Malcolm will
attest to.

Speaker 8 (47:15):
That, right, I didn't share with.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Phil, yeah, you know, and and yeah, he.

Speaker 9 (47:20):
Would have lost his voice, you know, he he he
got so angry.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
He would just let it rip on on what's going
on with the you know, yeah, it's it's too much.
You can't even you know, you can't even go into
how much you know you you use the word criminal
elect he used other words so so so anyway, so
now we need to get information to people when we

(47:46):
rap about where they can you know, where we can
send some of our listeners to get information not only
about you, but like other organizations if you have them
on hand, to let people know where to going in
and I mean of course sive dot works.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
But anyway, with that, I'm glad George were able to
get something then about the floods and all the other
fun stuff and show we got plenty. We got plenty
by that time.

Speaker 6 (48:14):
By that time there will be all kinds of issues.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
It's daily, it's DAILI uh. Yeah. The new thing is that,
uh that Trump has something wrong with his veins or something,
his leg veins or something. And they put out a
report just recently his doctor that he's got some leg veins.
I can't even tell you.

Speaker 6 (48:31):
Maybe they started another draft.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
I don't know, something like that. Instead of yeah, I.

Speaker 10 (48:37):
Would say one can only hope.

Speaker 7 (48:38):
But my sister is a very practicing Buddhist, and I'm
not allowed to say I have to wish for him.

Speaker 10 (48:45):
I have to make.

Speaker 7 (48:46):
Wishes for his wisdom versus wishes for his passing wisdom.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
What I would never use wisdom and his name in
the same sentence.

Speaker 10 (48:59):
No, but to wish it, you have to wish it.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Oh my god. Okay, I will start doing you know, old.

Speaker 6 (49:06):
It's tolling for Chris Christie in the hundred yard dsh
you know exactly.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
It's it's pretty much the.

Speaker 10 (49:11):
Same thing to make fun.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Of you, not.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
I could. I could see where she's coming from, but
I could also see where so anyway, So so now
would be the time to give information about where they
can get information about you and maybe a couple of organizations.

Speaker 10 (49:34):
Okay, So I'm gonna make it really easy for you.
I was gonna hold it out, but nobody can see me.

Speaker 7 (49:38):
But actually, in the back of the book, consider the Octopus,
which is a middle grade farce. There's a whole bunch
of resources where kids can go find places where they
can help, or with their families by themselves, where they
can get engaged.

Speaker 10 (49:54):
So that's all right.

Speaker 7 (49:55):
In the book, I would say, if you want to
learn more about the Great Pacific garbage patch. In addition
to our environmental farce that Jack Johnson, the singer uh Hu,
made a fabulous little thirty minute film called Smog of
the Sea, and it teaches you a lot about not

(50:16):
only the fact that there's these patches, but really the
plastics are everywhere in our oceans, everywhere. You can't even
see it because they're the micro and nanoplastics that you.

Speaker 10 (50:25):
Were talking about in the beginning.

Speaker 7 (50:27):
People want to find me, they can go to Gaypallisner
dot com, or they can look all over the internets
where people good people hang out these days.

Speaker 10 (50:38):
So you won't find me on Twitter.

Speaker 7 (50:40):
Anymore me either, I will never call it by its
other name, but it can still find me on some
of the other platforms until I can figure out a
better way.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Right. Well, I coming back into the US, people were
telling me that I should have, you know, make sure
that my social media apps are not on my phone,
So I took them off, you know, just so you
couldn't see them. But then when I came into JFK,
you didn't have to go to a border patrol guard.

(51:13):
You didn't have to go through. They have a screen.
You show your face.

Speaker 10 (51:18):
Yeah, and you walk through.

Speaker 6 (51:20):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Don I was shocked. It took me five minutes without
global entry even to get out, which so now they
have my face over everything. Good. Look they know where
I am right now, George Wood, we get infrom on you.

Speaker 6 (51:36):
Well you called it before. Civ dot works. Civ dot works,
and there's a civ dot work slash defend page which
talks about all of the frontline organizations that are working
to help serve those that are most vulnerable to the
egregious and horrific policies of this current current corrupt criminal
administration and.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Supreme Court and Congress. Just add it all together and
what do you got. It'screwed anyway to put it mildly,
But people have to take action. Please don't sit, you know,
on your laurels and do nothing. You got to get
out there and join a group, join environmental group, join
a political group, to do something.

Speaker 10 (52:20):
Get out and it makes you feel better too.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Right, get out and if you can, get out and protest.
Do it. If you can get out and and go
to you know again one of the organizations and go
to a meeting of theirs and become more active, that's
very important. There's so many, you know, a ACLU dot Org,
Brandon Center, Earth Justice, There's too many to name. So Gay,
I thank you so much. You are awesome. As George indicated,

(52:47):
you always write.

Speaker 7 (52:48):
George, I had to be very I had to be
on my best behavior.

Speaker 10 (52:54):
So I've tried.

Speaker 7 (52:54):
My heart is okay, And I also want to say
I know we don't have time, but George is I've
never seen a person who puts their money or lack
there of where their mouth is. I'm sure you know
his story Left Oracle during the first administration left. I
mean so proud of him. He does all of us

(53:16):
proud with the way he conducts himself. And I'm and
I make fun of him, but I'm super honored to
be related to him.

Speaker 10 (53:23):
But it's an awful lot of pressure.

Speaker 6 (53:25):
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Because we know that we know that George. You know,
he gets up and he stands up, and you know,
we could play some reggae music in the next show.
But anyway, maybe I'll do that for the next one.
So again, thank you both.

Speaker 10 (53:40):
Thank you for having men.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Giving, giving of your time and yourselves to try to
make things better, and that's what we need more of.

Speaker 6 (53:48):
Every every always a pleasure, always a pleasure.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Thank you, thank you, Thank you all right. Thanks for
joining us for the minute you can listen. Thanks for
joining us for the Many Shades of Green from more
info and shows go to Hudson River Radio dot com,
Malcolm Presents dot com, the Many Shades of Green dot com.
You can send us your thoughts at Teamshades of Green

(54:12):
on Instagram and follow us on Facebook, subscribe to our
podcast and all apps. A shout out to Neil back there,
who I could not do any of this with you
know that, So to Brian and Malcolm for their help.
Remember to pick a shade of green and raise your
eco and social consciousness. Gotta step it up, Maxie, Margaret
Rubin and we'll see you again next time.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com.