May 12, 2019 • 49 mins
In this episode, I interviewed Tyleigh who lived on a property in Virginia once occupied by slaves. Her story was told on an episode of The Dead Files. She describes the illnesses she has suffered from living in her former home, apparitions, electrical problems, and an unexplained evil that seems impossible to remove. The land is cursed and will likely remain a place where the dead still roam. If you would like to watch the episode that featured her story, click on the link: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2je7ot
To read my columns, please visit www.Clermontsun.com or my website at www.themarcabe.com. You can also find me on Facebook and Twitter, and if you are interested in sponsoring my podcast and column, please click on this link: http://www.themarcabe.com/donations.html
To read my columns, please visit www.Clermontsun.com or my website at www.themarcabe.com. You can also find me on Facebook and Twitter, and if you are interested in sponsoring my podcast and column, please click on this link: http://www.themarcabe.com/donations.html
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Versus darkness, and it makes mefeel sick. I'm sorry, so I
like to being choked, very verypainful. I've been pushed down the steps,
some kind of physical abuse. Theycould have been dismembered. Does not
want us tear at all, andit's just waiting to just tear us apart.
(00:25):
There's secrets here that some don't wantdiscovered. They're being watched. Hello,
(01:23):
Welcome to another episode of Record.I'm Will Think, a writer for
the Post and currently write weekly columnfor The Claremont's Sun, a weekly Ohio
owned newspaper. My columns cover fascinatingstories about UFOs, ghosts, evil creatures,
and the worst kind of monsters knowndemand kind. This podcast will also
(01:48):
cover compelling stories about the supernatural andtrue crime. Be sure to read my
story notes to find out more informationabout this podcast. You can find out
more on my website, and ifyou like this podcast, I ask that
you share it with your friends.Do you watch The Dead Files. It's
(02:10):
a really popular show about evil demonsand ghosts that have died but have stayed
behind to torment the living. Thisweek, I have an interview with Tyley,
a young woman who appeared on theDead Files. On season four,
episode six. The episode is titledSpellbound and it was filmed in Buchanan,
(02:34):
Virginia. She spoke to me abouther experiences with a supernatural and her appearance
on The Dead Files. This ispart one of a two part episode.
I also included clips from the originalepisode and will share a link in the
notes if you would like to watchthe entire episode any that how'd you get
(03:00):
on that show? And just tellme about that? Well, actually it
was one of my ex's friends andmy friend as Time, who just out
of curiosity, she had started watchingthe show and I had heard about it,
but she actually told I guess contactof the show and told them about
what was going on. And becauseshe probably knew that I was never going
(03:22):
to do that, you know,were you okay with that? Were you
mad? Yeah? I was finewith it after the fact. You know,
it was kind of because I waslike, Ah, they probably hear
all kinds of stuff that they'll,you know, I don't know, maybe
feel that it made me real ormaybe not, So we'll just have to
wait and see. So you didn'texpect them to actually call you, No,
I didn't, And they got backin touch with us pretty quickly.
(03:44):
So what was the conversation like,because a lot of people who were listening
to this have no idea how youget on a show, so you telling
them as news to them in picturesof any kind of like paranormal pictures,
even though they don't use that duringAmy's fuscation or these investigation, they don't
use any They don't go by that, they don't believe it. So we
(04:04):
had ton paranormal pictures that had beencollected for years, um when I moved
down there, from the age oftwenty six until thirty nine, and um,
we we had just accumulated so manypictures and that would be you know,
just regular normal family gathering, Birthday, Christmas, and these things started
(04:27):
steering. But we had also beenthrough so many experiences. You know,
it was like one tsunami after anothertsunami of things that were just going wrong.
There was no logical explanation at all. I'm sorry you did or didn't
show them pictures. Yeah we did, Okay, so they saw pictures,
Oh okay, then then what happened? Um, then they were asking a
(04:48):
little bit of like kind of theexperiences that we had, um that they
you know, if were you evertouched. Of course we had been touched,
you know, um my son.There was a newborn seventh day he
was there. I was walking downthe steps to go get him some milk
and stuff, and at the timeI felt this like heavy push at the
(05:13):
lower part of my back. Well, these steps are very old house built
in eighteen forty seven. And actuallyI fell down the steps with my newborn
son in my arm, and that'sjust something told me to hold onto him
and grab him tight. I hadbruises all over my from my back of
my neck, all down my legswhere everything hit, you know, going
down. He was okay because Ijust held on to him as tight as
(05:34):
I could. This random of thingsthat would go one that made those sense.
Things like paperwork, important paperwork wouldjust would be on the table and
vanish and gone would be it again. You know, objects would move,
things would break for no reason,Animals would get sick and pass. It
was just a lot of things thatjust did not add up, you know
(05:58):
that would make sense logically. Howdoes that work? They once they decide
that they wanted to do the showwith you, then that Steve and Amy
they come out first. Is thator this one them come out how does
that work? So they don't comeout first. What happens is that,
you know, it kind of takesa little bit of time for them to
get everything together coming from Hollywood orLos Angeles, and it's about ten days
(06:21):
of filming altogether. And what happensis Steve actually comes down and ask questions
and talk to us, and thenAmy Amy will do her walk through.
Um, of course we had wehad a big property, but the most
stuff that ever happened, We're backto two homes. We lived in on
(06:42):
the old house is what we calledit, and the newer home was the
modular but the same things that happenedat the old house. Because I just
could not take it anymore, sowe decided to build a new house and
things just kept escalating worse and worseand worse over there. So basically the
old research, you know, Genie, all geez information from past property owners,
(07:04):
everything from what had went on,any evidence of all that stuff,
um, you know, to makesure that there are no kind of things
that were made up verty much.And I've had articles that were wrote for
I've had other paranormal people they hadto talk to that justify everything that we
had you know, we were proclaimingthat going on, and at that point
(07:28):
I had tons of investigators and camethere and investigated the property. Were just
blown away of how much activity.And I don't know if some listeners might
understand why I'm talking about, wouldyou take a reporter and do what was
caught a dry run and they wouldleave it in each room of the house.
And what would happen is they wouldn'tbe asking questions or anything. They
(07:49):
would leave the house and they goback and get the recorders. There was
like hundreds of noises that shouldn't havebeen on their voices, music claiming,
h screaming, different this stuff thatwas picked up all it was insane.
And then the pictures, you know, with everything that was going on,
it was just so overwhelming because itaffected us physically as well and mentally and
(08:11):
emotionally. How long did you livethere all together? We lived in the
old house probably close going on tenyears, and then we had built a
modular I lived there total five years, I believe based on what I saw
in that on the program, andthat old house was creepy looking. I
(08:33):
give you credit for living in it. It scared me just looking at it.
Yeah, I got chills. Idid, I got I actually had
chills looking at it. It scaredme just looking on especially when she went
down in abasement. Man, ohmy god, you couldn't pay me.
I would not go down in thatbasement. That basement it used to be
before we until we updated the electricit used to run on. Just fused
(08:56):
it. And when the fuse wouldblow, I mean not fused but at
the old time. Yeah, theirfuses, you know, the little round
things, but the disc because itflows. And see where we were living
at there was no out street lights. You're in the middle of nowhere,
so it would looked like its blackdark, I mean, and going into
that basement and having to change youknow, one of those fuses have screwed
(09:18):
in, screw it out. Ittakes a few minutes to get you know,
down there anyways, in the dark, you know, and you would
just feel like all these different electricalcharges like going through the house, different
feelings, and I mean sometimes I'dbe scared to death, I'd be crying.
I mean, there were so manythings that happened that it makes sense.
Yeah, it was so terrifying,Um, you know, unexplainable event
(09:41):
Now when I saw the show.They said that it used to be a
slave plantation or something like that,and she saw slaves or dead slaves.
Is that? Yeah, the propertyif you go back to the seventeen hundred,
it was probably it was most likelya slave plantation for then, and
it had been exchanged several times throughdifferent hands. And the family they were
(10:03):
in particularly talking about with the Birdfamily, and the Bird family had over
sixty slaves there and um so fromwhat I knew of the Bird he was
pretty cruel and he did not Theydid not have good living conditions. They
were I mean they were treated asthe worst of the worst. I mean
(10:24):
they were. And if they livedin um. There used to be right
across from the old house, anolder um shack that some of them would
live in. And then some ofthe house slaves actually you know, lived
in the basement. But they alsohad part of that basement had at one
time had an iron gate that waslock and key, and that's where they
would keep the ones that would getin trouble and they'd put them up in
(10:46):
this little tiny hole and make themsit there for weeks. Did you ever
see any any spiritual slaves or Ohyeah, I had many experiences down in
the basement and I was down there. I've had even people have worked on
my electrical things in different parts ofthe house and it would work on things
and just not come back. Oneof my friends that he was doing electrical
(11:07):
work down there, and he said, you could just feel it, you
know, like staring at you.I've seen slaves, you know, I've
seen a man walk, you know, it was dark, hands frown and
walked straight from one side of thebasement to the other side of the basement.
And see in that basement flooring.Of course, it is covered by
a lot of dirt. Now allthat house is like seven chimneys in it,
(11:28):
and at one time there was aworking fireplace in there, so it
would it had to I guess thathad to be a bunch of them that
were living down there, especially inthe winters in Virginia. Winters in Virginia
can be rough, especially back then. They would have been dealing with lots
of snow and it had been veryvery cold in that basement. And how
(11:48):
they survived, I don't know.Yo, Well, it's not like they
had central heat, central error,so no, no, not at all.
And imagine them having to live offwhatever food they were gay, you
know, they wouldn't have had thecalories to you know, keep them warm.
What a horrible existence. It's hardto believe that people actually was awful.
(12:09):
Yeah, people actually had slaves.I mean that's I can't even bear
to imagine what that would have beenlike. So it's to me when I
saw that story, I was like, well, I'm not really surprised that
their spirits did stay around. Imean, they probably well miss so much
misery that it's not just a fewspirits like some places have, it's hundreds.
(12:30):
And we think, you know,a lot of people speculate that you
know, when you live in acertain area that maybe you know, scientifically
there could be reasons for the amplificationof more spirits, and a lot of
people in England or Europe called laylines. It's which is a geometrical trail
that the dead usually takes to getfrom one lacation of the next, and
(12:52):
they can do it with you know, instant speed. Um. But we're
pretty sure with like geological stuff.We have limestone quarries all around that you
know, near that property, theriver surrounds the entire property. Then we
have you know, the railroad thatcame through there a long time ago.
That has, you know, surroundsproperty. And then we had a creek
(13:15):
right in front of our house.So you think about all these things that
are you know, they could evenbump it up more. It's like a
perfect storm. Now, what's goingon with the house now? Does anybody
live in it? Now? Meand my ex split up a few years
ago. We have a renter thatlives in there. But the bad thing
about it, since he's been there, he's suffered severe anxiety attack. Um,
(13:41):
he hears them, he sees them, but he really doesn't have any
choice but to kind of be therebecause the rent's pretty cheap to catch what
I'm going there with rum and he'shad several vehicle issues and we'll talk about
that later of how they can manipulatethat stuff. I've heard that electrical.
(14:01):
Yeah, you know, it's nota place that you just want to bring
any kind of stranger check. Andhis love life, his love life must
be hell to take care, youknow, to be able to understand what's
going on. I think being homelesswould be sounds better than me. I
don't know. I like I said, I had my own experience and there
was no way I couldn't stay thereanymore than anymore. I got to a
(14:24):
point where I'm like, Okay,I gotta leave more power to him.
I don't care how cheap it is, but hey, you know, that's
what he has to do. Sohe lives in the house, the old
house. He lives in the oldhouse, but he only is really using
like the bathroom, the kitchen,in the living room. He really doesn't
go through parts of the other house. All that part is like locked off
(14:46):
just because of several things, youknow, And we told him straight up,
you know, is this is prettyis haunted, pretty pretty haunted.
Yeah, and there are things you'regonna feel, And you know, I
just think, in all honesty,honestly, I just don't think he's going
to stay there too much longer,just for what I'm you know what my
(15:09):
gut tells me. I don't blamehim now. When I when I watched
the show, the lady on theresaid that the spirits want that house just
destroyed. Is one leveled because it'sjust not don't really agree with you don't
agree with that? Do you agreewith that? Yeah? No, I
don't. And there's several reasons.First, of all, it's a very
(15:33):
old historic home. Um, it'sa piece of history. There's not many
of those places that are left.I mean they're not right, especially like
in their original conditions like this oneis pretty much only very minimal, uh
updates to be made to the home. So you don't believe that then,
so I said, so, soyou disagree with that part of the show
(15:54):
when she said that, I didn'tagree with everything. No, I did
not. So let me ask youthis here. So, yeah, why
are they there? Why haven't theymoved on? What do you think?
I think they're stuck. I thinksome died tragically. I think some are
just mischievous, and then I thinksome of those things are just downright evil.
(16:15):
There's a lot more than just peoplethat have passed through that property.
Some had experienced some didn't, Butthe majority of people that have, you
know, did experience a lot ofstuff, you know that or were not
skeptics. And we had one mancome down that was totally skeptical with his
wife. We were doing a tourone time because it was more of are
(16:37):
we going crazy? You know?Is this just happening to us? So
we were just trying to figure outif it was more people that were,
you know, going to be effectiveby it. Well, anyways, I
would leave you know, the houseand go next door and they could call
me if they needed anything, andthey did within like twenty minutes. She
(16:57):
had a really pretty crazy experience,and he had an experience where he smelt
like tobacco being blown right in hisface. Wow, old Tommy tobacco right.
So there was that going on,and then there were um She also
(17:18):
thinks that something followed her home,and actually there was a person that was
working in her office building who actuallyseemed this dark shadow thing that was following
her as well. I want tosee a certain prayer, and I cannot
remember the prayer this time, butI told her what you know, that
she needed to pray, and shesaid that pretty much took care of it.
(17:41):
But she wanted to come back downagain. And at that point I
was kind of scared. I didwhen anything, because she was really sweeter
and her husband both were very sweet. I didn't want anything negative to start
happening to them. Why would theywant to come back. I don't get
that. I'd be like, no, I don't want to come back.
What else? That's a fine linethat you know, you don't know exactly
(18:03):
what you could be in store for, right, and I don't want to
re taken. I can happen rightwith them. You know, before people
could even enter that home, wehad them sign a liability. Oh yeah,
I'll bet you. Have you everheard of Bobby mackews. Yeah,
okay, I live by Bobby Man. I don't live that far from Bobby
Matthews. It's it's a nightclub.It's the most haunted nightclub in the United
(18:29):
States. I read a book aboutit, and, like I said,
I've never been there, and Iread a book about I mean, they
were in a book that I read. There's like all kinds of sworn statements
of people who have seen stuff.Even cops in that town have seen stuff
out in his club. A lotof people, I mean hundreds of people
have seen ghosts and spirits in there. So you know, I mean it's
probably in all the famous ghost showsin the world have been have been there.
(18:53):
I mean there's tours. I mean, it's it's a very very famous
place. Um, but yeah,I don't live that far from there.
It's over in Kentucky. It's rightacross shows about that. Yeah. Yeah,
so yeah, sure, you know. So I'm just saying that you
know people who are skeptical, butI'll tell you you see something or you
live through something like that experiences andnever forget him, and it does change
(19:17):
your life, changes the ford well, it changes you as a human being.
I mean, you have respect forthe dead, I'll tell you that.
And not only that, it makesyou question a lot of other things
you know of what you've been raisedand right right theological issues that you know.
I believe in God a Christian,yes, But when I had a
(19:41):
pastor come over to bless the house, um, I don't think he was
able to finish it the right way. He felt very uncomfortable and he just
kind of rushed through it. Ithink that if I was going to have
that done, I would have gonewith a Catholic priest. I mean,
I'm I go to Baptist church.I'm I go pretty faithfully and I was
raised as a loop. But Idon't know, I just I for something
(20:02):
like that. I wouldn't. Ithink I would only I'm not even a
Catholic, but I think that Iwould feel more comfortable with having a Catholic
priest come in. They seemed tobe more knowledgeable attempts trying to figure out
everything. I mean, then that'sno joke. Nobody could put the finger
on it. And you know wethought that. You know, I agree
with Amy on some things, butnot everything. Well yeah, and that's
(20:26):
not doubt in her right or herabilities, but it was just doubting everything
that was there, you know whatI mean. It was so much,
so many different aspects of it.Now she looked Steve didn't so much.
But Amy looked pretty terrified. Imean me watching her her facial expressions and
(20:48):
listen to her talk that was legit. She was terrified. I mean if
she put if that was an act. She put on a good act,
but she looked terrified. To me, no, I wouldn't. You know,
a lot of mediums and people thatare sensitive, they will feel what's
going on around him. But thefunny part, or the most relatable part,
(21:08):
when she was talking about her neckand back and stuff, it's never
been in that much pain. Yes, imagine being that kind of pain every
day of living down there. I'mstill in that pain. That pain will
never go away, you know,And that's a part of me with the
fiber mile that I did not havebefore you know, I believe the place
(21:29):
gave me. You know what,that's kind of strange stress. My ex
wife had fiber mylogia and I neverthought about it, but she really didn't
have the symptoms until after we leftLexington. Before when before we moved to
Lexington, she was fine, butnot long not I mean, it happened
after we left. I mean,I don't know. I'm not gonna say
(21:51):
they gave it to her, butI mean, I'm just saying, that's
just something you saying that made mejust think about her situation where she didn't
have it either until after we werethere. But um, you know,
I mean from my own experience,it's something very hard to explain. I've
tried talking to people about it whodon't who've never experienced anything like. As
a matter of fact, when Iwas on I got in a conversation with
(22:12):
somebody on Facebook this I put somethingon there and this girl had responded,
oh, I because I told herI put on there. Yes, I
lived in a haunted house. Andshe said, oh, you're so lucky.
I wish I lived in one.Man. I told her, you
have no f a idea what you'retalking about. I was like, no,
(22:33):
you don't. It doesn't bullshit.I was like, no, you,
it's absolutely terrifying. I'm like you, it's it's horrible somebody says that
they've obviously not had a true experience. Anyway. It's different from being touched
or a whisper. But when youhave things going well, we had,
(22:55):
we had stuff get like moved aroundand you could hear it walk. You
could hear it walking. We livedin this old townhouse and if somebody walked,
the floor would creak really loud,or if you walked up the steps,
it would creak. Nobody could walkon the top floor because it was
(23:17):
as a town house. It's twostories. But anybody that walked on the
top floor, if you were sittingdownstairs, you could always hear the floor
creaking. You could always follow wherethey were walking. We used to hear
footprints or people walking running coming upand down the steps. The steps would
creak on their own and nobody wasfreaking on them. So you heard that.
(23:41):
And then the other thing was myex wife and I could both.
It's really I don't even know howto explain it. You probably don't understand
what I'm talking about, but Ifelt like this, like you see those
cartoons and you see the guy walkingaround and there's the storm cloud and it's
just him and it's raining on him, you know, wherever he walks.
(24:03):
Yeah, it's that gloom and thisheavy, heavy feeling, like there's just
something sitting on you and you justfeel this yep, you feel this hate,
this this anger. I mean,I mean it's just weird. It's
just you can just feel something evil. Like I said, I can't describe
it any better than that cartoon guywalk around and he's just got the storm
(24:27):
cloud and it's just on him.It's a bright sunny day, but he's
got a storm cloud with rain.And that was how that was how I
felt. I was miserable. Imean, that's exactly how I felt.
You know, I used to bea very carefree, you know, very
happy person for the most part ofmy life. You know, I've had
but I've had lots of trauma aswell in my life. Um, but
(24:49):
when I moved down there, youand that's the thing people have to realize
sometimes it doesn't automatically just show itselfright off the bat. Yeah, I
mean one of their jobs, especiallythe demonic, is oppression and pretty much
I mean, you know, we'reoppression where you're just everything's alienated. You've
alienated yourself from your family, andI pretty much the entire time did not
(25:15):
have I think my mother came tovisit me like twice, yeah, within
that amount of time, and shejust didn't like the house, she didn't
like the property. She could feelsomething and you know, of course,
you know she was respecting at thetime, the marriage and stuff, but
things just kept getting worse and itjust made no sense to where you know
(25:36):
you started. You didn't take lifefor granted no more. Let's just say
that, or you're expecting something tohappen to yourself for you know, your
loved ones at time. So letme ask you this. I want to
go back to the religious thing becauseI'm also a Christian. Now I have
to say that, you know,I feel this confliction in me that,
Okay, I'm a Christian. Ibelieve in Jesus wholeheartedly. I attend Bible
(25:59):
study, I to church faithfully,I take my grandson, I pray a
lot. I mean, I havea very strong, strong faith in God.
But all my life when I grewup, I remember that passage about
God saying that you know when youpretty much when you die, I can't
remember trying to think of the passage, I can't remember. You have the
passage remembered by heart. To beabsent from the body is to be present
(26:25):
with the Lord. And that's oneof my favorite things. I don't know
if you've ever heard of that,but it tells you in them. It
says exactly that in the Bible.So it tells you that when you die,
you're you're gone from here, thatyou you're you're with God. So
there's still spirits and there's still entities. Things were left behind, And to
me, as a Christian, I'vealways had a hard time understanding that,
(26:48):
Like, wait a minute, theBible says that you're not here. But
then I guess there's people that itis possible for people to be left behind,
but there's people who don't believe that. They think that that's impossible,
that those are just you know thatthose aren't even those people anymore, you
know that died their demons or something. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe
it's not the person that died,Maybe it's something else that looks like that
(27:11):
person. I don't know. I'vealways had problems with that. I've always
had problems with you know, alsopeople if you have ghosts, your devil
worshiper will absolutely right. I'm thefurthest thing from it. I've heard that,
you know, yeah, as beingin the Bible Belt for sure,
(27:33):
in Virginia, you know, SouthernVirginia, Southwest Virginia specifically. You know,
it's it's something that's spread into youknow, you you were Bible school,
you know, Wednesday Sundays, nomatter what. But I will tell
you this, you know. Imean I even had a pasture one time
tell me over the phone that Iwas messing with something I shouldn't be,
(27:55):
and you know, I got reallyupset and I felt like nobody would help
me. I really did, becauseI felt like nobody was there to believe
me. Because and then I startedlooking at the science part of things,
Well, energy never dies, right, and that's what we are. Um,
that's something that is we're energy.That's exactly right. So you kind
of wonder when you have so manyof these things going on that's around you,
(28:22):
and I mean hundreds thousands, ifyou were somebody that is sensitive like
I am, or has you know, been through a lot of things dramatically
in life. I think that I'mkind of like a beacon to them.
And it's not like I get youknow, hey over here, I got
the one sign if they can seecome on, No, it's nothing like
that, right, you can't helpit, right, And it's it's it's
(28:48):
terrifying. I mean, it's reallyterrifying. Sometimes it is. I mean,
it's I mean, I'm thankful rightnow. I don't. I don't.
I don't see anything. I've notI've not experienced anything after the only
time in my life if I've experiencedanything was back in my own nine months
in Kentucky. But I've not.I've been fine ever since then. You
know, once I left that house, I felt fine. I felt like
(29:11):
everything was good. But then Ialways wondered, you know what, but
I'm a Christian, so that shouldn'thappen to me. But that's not the
case, you know. Um,if nothing else, I've learned that being
a Christian makes you more susceptible todemonic type things or evil spirits, because
it's almost like if you're i mean, if you're already evil, well the
devil's already got you, you know. But when you're trying to avoid evil,
(29:34):
then they're gonna try harder to workon you. So if you're a
Christian, you may even draw themmore you know, more evil to exactly
right, and they try to breakyou down from the inside out, outside
in. And you know, thereare times that I remember just praying to
God, help me, send somebodyto help me, you know. But
(29:56):
it just seemed like anything that Itried to do was like eradicated, you
know, somehow it would it wouldit be prevented, you know, it
would stopped. Yeah, it's justlike somebody doesn't want that to happen.
Suggesting I would take from others,you know, would not work. Right.
(30:17):
You try staging the house, youknow, doing a cleansing of the
house, you know, top thebottom, both properties, you know,
both houses, saucing around the house. Yeah, same prayers constantly, you
know, and we do everything.But that's where I think a lot of
it. It was a locational thingsissue as well. It wasn't just you
(30:38):
know, for the fact of thehouse, right, it wasn't a house
nothing more but structure. It's theland land. Yes, it sounds like
your land was cursed, yes,and your house happened to be on it.
I mean, it doesn't matter what. Yeah, I think your your
house was just happened to be onthat cursed land. So to me it
sounds like, yeah, it didn'tmatter what they put. Even if they
put a busines, if they puta Hamart there, I mean, or
(31:00):
a Walmart on that property, there'sgoing to happen. There's still there would
be weird stuff happening. I mean, I don't know, a stockboy might
be stocking something and see something funny. I mean, it's the land.
I mean, it's that's just howit is. And I just I just
think that that's just how it is. I mean, there's just some things
that I think as people were notmeant to understand everything, and we're not
(31:22):
going to ever be able to understandeverything. There's just things that just happen
and we just have to kind ofaccept it. All I knew. It's
something that is never far out ofmy mind. You know, it's nothing.
There were so much I mean,Mark, we would have like vehicles,
brand new vehicles have electrical issues.The old house after the Dead Files
(31:48):
came, one of the trees thathad been there for hundreds of years snapped
at the base and almost caved inthe house. But guess what we thought
it was going to cave in thehouse. It didn't. It barely did.
Or the dag um guttering, youknow, and then we had a
few months after they had came.We had updated the electrical a couple of
years before that. No issues.You know, every once in a while,
(32:10):
power with searge or something would youknow, kind of be going crazy.
But we always had issues with applianceslike blowing brand news. You know.
I can't even tell you how manyTV PCRs or DVD players, or
washers and dryers, restrigerators that wewent through in the house. I can't
even begin to tell you how manyit had actually blew. We had bought
(32:35):
a really expensive search protector, youknow, to prevent any issues. Well,
yeah, that's what it failed.And it had been working final under
about six years. It failed.And when it did, it blew everything
in the house, everything in thegarage, all right, just blew.
It burned it Friday. So Icalled the manufacturer of where they came,
you know, where it came from, and he was like just shocked.
(32:59):
He said, you know, you'rethe second one from this company and forty
years that that surge failed. Wellthat's the nation wide company that that right
there. I was like, yougot to be kidding me. Well,
the other people don't all live inhaunted house, you know, the power
companies, no power surgeries that day, there were no issues that day,
(33:19):
nothing, you know. So youstart thinking about, you know, all
these other possibilities. There's no logicalpossible, there isn't can't explain it.
So how old is that house exactly? That thing had to be easily over
one hundred years old. Well wethink the foundation goes back to seventeen oh
seven. Um, if the originalplace burned down, so we think it
(33:43):
was built twice actually so, butyou know, back then it's kind of
hard to keep records from you know, where they were at and where they
were located, right, So alot of stuff is harder to find.
But I did come across an articlewhere Starkey Robinson. I'm sure if you
watched the show you remember him livedthere to be eighty nine. He lost
seven of his fourteen children who died. Yeah, he was actually married three
(34:07):
times. I remember them talking aboutthat, the two wives side. Yes,
but he actually wrote a book andthere was passage in the book and
I'll try to remember if I canfind it where you can get you give
me that article. He even spokeof the spirits that remained. Well when
did he live there? Eighteen fortieseight? Okay, Yeah, and there's
(34:31):
people buried there right on the grounds. Yeah, I thought that's what they
said that there. Okay, Sothe cemetery is like directly across the old
house where the old house is,just like northwest or northeast across from it,
right beside the train tracks. However, we do know that the slaves
(34:51):
did not get buried with markers.They were just pretty much thrown in the
ground. Rocks were placed over himbecause there's a place on the property where
there's lots of wine stone rock.They really never honored the dead, and
back in the day, the slaveowners felt, you know, they all
it was a reminder to the slavesand you know, the thief that they
were always being watched over right,you know by their um slave master,
(35:16):
which is absolutely just horrific, youknow, treated worse than a pet.
Yeah. Yeah, they weren't consideredhuman. That's why they were considered They
just weren't considered human. They werelike the Americans, I mean, the
American Indian was the same way theywere. They were savages. They were
considered animals. They weren't even consideredhuman. That's that's why they found it
(35:38):
so easy to make slaves out ofAfricans and then to kill Native Americans.
I mean, when you're you're killingsomething that's not even a human being,
it's I guess that's your way ofmaking yourself feel better when you do it.
I guess. I don't know.I don't understand that logic, but
that's how it went. Well.They were Native Americans on that property well
(36:00):
too, from a long time ago, and it even talks about that when
from the seventeen o seven family thewoods that they were, they had to
battle constantly the Indians. You know, I believe that the property of the
way it sets would have been aperfect camp for you know, Native Americans
to live there because of the watersources and there was no really a way
(36:23):
to get it across unless back thenknew you had to ride a horse through
or go up a mountain and goall the way around. It was just
blocked off by water. And evenuntil the nineteen fifties there used to be
a hand roped ferry that was there. And that's how anybody that lived on
the land or lived up in themountain, would get to that property and
(36:45):
it would be open at some certaintime in the morning and would be closing
at nine o'clock every night, sevendays a week around And I think sometime
in the nineteen fifties they finally,you know, you know, build a
steel bridge. Then that was washedout in a flood I believe sixteen nine
or eighty five, I'm not toosure, but one or the other,
and he had to build another one. So it's a little bit crazy,
(37:08):
you know. It's just so it'slike layers and layers and layers of things
that went on on that property.I'm surprised you or your ex husband haven't
wrote I mean, to me,it would be a fascinating book. I
mean, a historical book. I'msurprised nobody, even a historian, hasn't
come along and wanted to write abook just about even if you leave out
(37:28):
the supernatural part, but if youjust want to write about the history of
that place. I mean, it'sgot a really interesting history. Oh yeah,
there's tons of history on that land. Now. I'm a big history
buff. I love history. Myson, yeah, my middle son,
Blaze, She's like, well,we need to do a documentary, and
I think that would be good,or even a movie. You know,
nothing that's hollywooded up, something thata documentary the truth about every day?
(37:52):
You wouldn't you would do a documentary, Yeah, and that's what you know.
A documentary is what I would ratherdo than anything else in a book.
I mean, we would have likeour animals and suddenly get sick and
passed. I had one dog rightafter Amy and them and visited. It
was like a couple of weeks orso, and his name was Storn.
(38:15):
Everybody loved the puppy. He's sosweet. And anyways, I was at
the computer in the dining room andyou know, you could just opened at
the module. You can see allthe way around the house, you know,
living room, kitchen, dining room, and there was no like blockade.
Well, all of a sudden,I heard like a snap, almost
like a whit swear to you,and the dog, because he was trying
(38:37):
to get up on the couch,just started wailing and screaming, you know,
as much as a dog could,you know, just will we end
up taking him to the vet.Now, And I'm gonna tell you something
about the number three. For somereason, things happened on that place with
the threes. We even captured seventhrees in mid air forming and formed and
(38:59):
then when it was just you know, going away, and that happened on
a Sunday at twelve thirty three.But we come to find out the first
X rays didn't show anything, secondx rays anything, the third X rays
showed three broken vertebrates and we're backjust snapped the net and you don't know
what caused it, and he endedup having a lot of issues after that.
(39:20):
It was really not a lot wecould do at the time, and
we ended up having to put himdown. Lots of stuff like that would
happen. You know, a puppywe would read border collies, and one
of our puppies, Honey, wehad actually were waiting for it to go
to its new home. She passedaway to night that that morning. Nobody
knows why, no, nobody,you know, she was healthy, everything
(39:43):
that they had already been to thevet and checked out. They have had
all their shots, everything was update, everything was fine. She was fine
one day in the day before andthen was dead the next. We had
end up taking all the door knobsone in the new house off because things
would like lock you in there,and there's no locks on these door knocks
into the bedrooms, just in thebathroom, and we would have to take
(40:07):
all the door knobs off of itbecause they would lock somehow and you could
not get in nor out of thatroom. Fire alarms would go off.
Fire alarms would go off numerous timesat night, during day, and you
know, there would be nothing cookingto set them off. There would be
the batteries were up to day,everything had been tested, and these things
(40:28):
with malfunction microwave would blow, youknow, TVs would blow, just the
craziest thing possible. You know thatyou just don't have an illogical explanation for
right, Well, it's all electrical. You know my children, you know,
one of them, yeah, reallyhas autism. Now. The bizarre
thing about this is that he wasfine, dabbling, you know, call
(40:52):
you know, saying short words,and he changed, you know sometimes people
see you can see it coming.He changed literally overnight, and it was
like his eyes went black, likesharp sides. He had no emotion,
no nothing. And this was atthe old house. He would get up
in the middle of like start runningand screaming and slam into a wall and
(41:13):
knock itself down and get back anddo it like repeatedly. We had to
do so many things to keep himsafe. Yeah, you know, he
started like biting them. I meanI had bloody noses, bruises all over
me from where you know. Iwas the only one that he would really
let touch. At this point,just everything could go wrong. Did you
think he was possessed? I thinkthe house had something to do with it.
(41:37):
Yeah, I really do. Ithink the property did because also I
did some hospitals care his uh,Troy's grandmother at the time, shed a
heart condition, so we took careof her and they said they gave her
two months. She actually lived amust year. The uncle, Troy's aunt's
(41:57):
cousin, died from some kind ofvirus around his heart. It's really rare.
And then a year, almost ayear to grandma's death, Roy's father
became really really ill and he passedaway. And then a couple of years
later I ended up having to takecare of Troy's other uncle, who you
(42:22):
know, just went downhill so fasthe died at fifty nine, you know,
And that was a lot of issuesthat you know, I would say,
sick things would have just all kindsof stuff that I can't even explain
would go on. You know,I'd have I'd see things constantly, get
pictures of stuff that it shouldn't beanything in there but but of my children.
(42:45):
There would be these other things inthere that looked like it was trying
to attack my child or you know, jump into my child's body. I've
had things that attacked me that actuallyI think was oppressing me so bad that
it was trying to get in andit was control of me a little bit.
Just was not acting like myself atall. I'm surprised you lived there
as long as you did. Ijust don't think I could have handled that.
(43:07):
I really don't well finances, youknow, after we built the other
house financially, and see, Iwas a chef for a while for a
long time, and when the Riverwas diagnosed with autism, I was just
so exhausted. I couldn't do itanymore. You know, I just could
not go on two hours of sleep. I had went on that way for
(43:27):
about a year, and just finallyI had to resign from my position.
I just couldn't work full time anymore. You know, it had taken so
much out of me because not onlywas I trying to find my son again
out of the deep dark abyss ofautism. And I believe the paranormal as
well. That I was just drained. I was so drained, you know,
(43:47):
Bizarre accidents would happen. Troy's brothergot shot accidentally on the property right
from the old house. They wereshooting a gun and the gun mouthfunction and
they off that had ejected the lastbullet. Well, the bullet actually went
through Jesse and went through his longpuncture just one collapses long and it's like
(44:09):
one fourth of a millimeter away fromthis like in his spine and his neck.
I believe that I'm as killing.That's a lot of tragedy, you
know, you know, just arandom things. Now, that's it random.
That is like a family home,right, I mean, it's like
I think you said it was past. It's a generational house. Yeah.
(44:30):
Um. They purchased the reasons purchasedthat part of property in nineteen thirty three.
There's the threes again, um,and have owned it ever since and
the boys will be fourth generation owners. Okay, So you know, and
sometimes I worry about if there's somekind of like bizarre curse on that property
(44:51):
or my boys are going to beaffected. You know, I'm still affected.
I still have chronic illness um.But now if anything, as he's
a become more aware of paranormal issue, you know, things that are going
on, and it's like I'm amedium in a sense and a sensitive and
impass and start like texting crazy stufflike when his uncle had it got really
(45:13):
sick and we didn't know what's goingon. We're at the hospital and they
had for some reason, it justcame out of the blue. I said,
check his lung and I think hehas lung cancer. Doctors came back
to no, he doesn't have nolung cancer. And so I went outside
and I talked to the position.I said, look, run run the
tests again. Do the tests again. I told him exactly where it was
(45:35):
at and told him the location ofit. And when they came back,
he pulled me out of the room. He said, how did you know
that? I said, I don'tknow, I just did you know?
It was weird. We would havetimes where we would leave, like from
the house and have like putrid smells. Okay, Troy would leave from the
house, go to you know,go to work or something, and I'd
be at home, and I wouldsmell the same thing. He would have
(45:58):
the same thing in the v hicleuntil he crossed the bridge and it just
went away like a huture smell ofvomit or you know, just disgusting sulver
smells um that they had no reasonto be there, right, that's a
pretty disc outside. Yeah, daynight didn't matters, Like so many orbs
in these pictures, it was justcrazy anybody that came down there that had
(46:23):
like ill intentions. I think someof the spears there had gotten protective over
me and the boys specifically. Theywould get like really sick pretty immediately.
Yeah, but I guess I'm guessingyou probably didn't have too many visitors out
there. Did you have a lotof people come out or constant visitors?
(46:45):
You know, I think the firstfew years when we lived there, we
may have had some gatherings and orbirthdays and stuff. And as time went
on and I just got to thepoint where I just didn't want people to
come down. Yeah. I wasso scared that they would take things home
with them, or they would pisssomething off and we'd pay for it,
you know, and things would fireup, and you know, without a
(47:06):
warning or anything like that, andI just didn't want to put anybody else
for him's away. You know,we were already taken to the brunt of
it, and I felt like,you know, I'm not gonna do that
to anybody else if they're gonna punished. And in which I felt like I
was a slave, I'm gonna bevery honest, like I had become a
slave to that place and U anddid in so many work ways. So
(47:29):
you know, I just felt likeit owed me had eat eat, eat,
Versus darkness, and it makes mefeel sick. I'm sorry, so I
like to being choked, very verypainful. I've been pushed down the steps,
some kind of physical abuse. Theycould have been dismembered. Does not
want us tear at all, andit's just waiting to just tear us apart.
(00:25):
There's secrets here that some don't wantdiscovered. They're being watched. Hello,
(01:23):
Welcome to another episode of Record.I'm Will Think, a writer for
the Post and currently write weekly columnfor The Claremont's Sun, a weekly Ohio
owned newspaper. My columns cover fascinatingstories about UFOs, ghosts, evil creatures,
and the worst kind of monsters knowndemand kind. This podcast will also
(01:48):
cover compelling stories about the supernatural andtrue crime. Be sure to read my
story notes to find out more informationabout this podcast. You can find out
more on my website, and ifyou like this podcast, I ask that
you share it with your friends.Do you watch The Dead Files. It's
(02:10):
a really popular show about evil demonsand ghosts that have died but have stayed
behind to torment the living. Thisweek, I have an interview with Tyley,
a young woman who appeared on theDead Files. On season four,
episode six. The episode is titledSpellbound and it was filmed in Buchanan,
(02:34):
Virginia. She spoke to me abouther experiences with a supernatural and her appearance
on The Dead Files. This ispart one of a two part episode.
I also included clips from the originalepisode and will share a link in the
notes if you would like to watchthe entire episode any that how'd you get
(03:00):
on that show? And just tellme about that? Well, actually it
was one of my ex's friends andmy friend as Time, who just out
of curiosity, she had started watchingthe show and I had heard about it,
but she actually told I guess contactof the show and told them about
what was going on. And becauseshe probably knew that I was never going
(03:22):
to do that, you know,were you okay with that? Were you
mad? Yeah? I was finewith it after the fact. You know,
it was kind of because I waslike, Ah, they probably hear
all kinds of stuff that they'll,you know, I don't know, maybe
feel that it made me real ormaybe not, So we'll just have to
wait and see. So you didn'texpect them to actually call you, No,
I didn't, And they got backin touch with us pretty quickly.
(03:44):
So what was the conversation like,because a lot of people who were listening
to this have no idea how youget on a show, so you telling
them as news to them in picturesof any kind of like paranormal pictures,
even though they don't use that duringAmy's fuscation or these investigation, they don't
use any They don't go by that, they don't believe it. So we
(04:04):
had ton paranormal pictures that had beencollected for years, um when I moved
down there, from the age oftwenty six until thirty nine, and um,
we we had just accumulated so manypictures and that would be you know,
just regular normal family gathering, Birthday, Christmas, and these things started
(04:27):
steering. But we had also beenthrough so many experiences. You know,
it was like one tsunami after anothertsunami of things that were just going wrong.
There was no logical explanation at all. I'm sorry you did or didn't
show them pictures. Yeah we did, Okay, so they saw pictures,
Oh okay, then then what happened? Um, then they were asking a
(04:48):
little bit of like kind of theexperiences that we had, um that they
you know, if were you evertouched. Of course we had been touched,
you know, um my son.There was a newborn seventh day he
was there. I was walking downthe steps to go get him some milk
and stuff, and at the timeI felt this like heavy push at the
(05:13):
lower part of my back. Well, these steps are very old house built
in eighteen forty seven. And actuallyI fell down the steps with my newborn
son in my arm, and that'sjust something told me to hold onto him
and grab him tight. I hadbruises all over my from my back of
my neck, all down my legswhere everything hit, you know, going
down. He was okay because Ijust held on to him as tight as
(05:34):
I could. This random of thingsthat would go one that made those sense.
Things like paperwork, important paperwork wouldjust would be on the table and
vanish and gone would be it again. You know, objects would move,
things would break for no reason,Animals would get sick and pass. It
was just a lot of things thatjust did not add up, you know
(05:58):
that would make sense logically. Howdoes that work? They once they decide
that they wanted to do the showwith you, then that Steve and Amy
they come out first. Is thator this one them come out how does
that work? So they don't comeout first. What happens is that,
you know, it kind of takesa little bit of time for them to
get everything together coming from Hollywood orLos Angeles, and it's about ten days
(06:21):
of filming altogether. And what happensis Steve actually comes down and ask questions
and talk to us, and thenAmy Amy will do her walk through.
Um, of course we had wehad a big property, but the most
stuff that ever happened, We're backto two homes. We lived in on
(06:42):
the old house is what we calledit, and the newer home was the
modular but the same things that happenedat the old house. Because I just
could not take it anymore, sowe decided to build a new house and
things just kept escalating worse and worseand worse over there. So basically the
old research, you know, Genie, all geez information from past property owners,
(07:04):
everything from what had went on,any evidence of all that stuff,
um, you know, to makesure that there are no kind of things
that were made up verty much.And I've had articles that were wrote for
I've had other paranormal people they hadto talk to that justify everything that we
had you know, we were proclaimingthat going on, and at that point
(07:28):
I had tons of investigators and camethere and investigated the property. Were just
blown away of how much activity.And I don't know if some listeners might
understand why I'm talking about, wouldyou take a reporter and do what was
caught a dry run and they wouldleave it in each room of the house.
And what would happen is they wouldn'tbe asking questions or anything. They
(07:49):
would leave the house and they goback and get the recorders. There was
like hundreds of noises that shouldn't havebeen on their voices, music claiming,
h screaming, different this stuff thatwas picked up all it was insane.
And then the pictures, you know, with everything that was going on,
it was just so overwhelming because itaffected us physically as well and mentally and
(08:11):
emotionally. How long did you livethere all together? We lived in the
old house probably close going on tenyears, and then we had built a
modular I lived there total five years, I believe based on what I saw
in that on the program, andthat old house was creepy looking. I
(08:33):
give you credit for living in it. It scared me just looking at it.
Yeah, I got chills. Idid, I got I actually had
chills looking at it. It scaredme just looking on especially when she went
down in abasement. Man, ohmy god, you couldn't pay me.
I would not go down in thatbasement. That basement it used to be
before we until we updated the electricit used to run on. Just fused
(08:56):
it. And when the fuse wouldblow, I mean not fused but at
the old time. Yeah, theirfuses, you know, the little round
things, but the disc because itflows. And see where we were living
at there was no out street lights. You're in the middle of nowhere,
so it would looked like its blackdark, I mean, and going into
that basement and having to change youknow, one of those fuses have screwed
(09:18):
in, screw it out. Ittakes a few minutes to get you know,
down there anyways, in the dark, you know, and you would
just feel like all these different electricalcharges like going through the house, different
feelings, and I mean sometimes I'dbe scared to death, I'd be crying.
I mean, there were so manythings that happened that it makes sense.
Yeah, it was so terrifying,Um, you know, unexplainable event
(09:41):
Now when I saw the show.They said that it used to be a
slave plantation or something like that,and she saw slaves or dead slaves.
Is that? Yeah, the propertyif you go back to the seventeen hundred,
it was probably it was most likelya slave plantation for then, and
it had been exchanged several times throughdifferent hands. And the family they were
(10:03):
in particularly talking about with the Birdfamily, and the Bird family had over
sixty slaves there and um so fromwhat I knew of the Bird he was
pretty cruel and he did not Theydid not have good living conditions. They
were I mean they were treated asthe worst of the worst. I mean
(10:24):
they were. And if they livedin um. There used to be right
across from the old house, anolder um shack that some of them would
live in. And then some ofthe house slaves actually you know, lived
in the basement. But they alsohad part of that basement had at one
time had an iron gate that waslock and key, and that's where they
would keep the ones that would getin trouble and they'd put them up in
(10:46):
this little tiny hole and make themsit there for weeks. Did you ever
see any any spiritual slaves or Ohyeah, I had many experiences down in
the basement and I was down there. I've had even people have worked on
my electrical things in different parts ofthe house and it would work on things
and just not come back. Oneof my friends that he was doing electrical
(11:07):
work down there, and he said, you could just feel it, you
know, like staring at you.I've seen slaves, you know, I've
seen a man walk, you know, it was dark, hands frown and
walked straight from one side of thebasement to the other side of the basement.
And see in that basement flooring.Of course, it is covered by
a lot of dirt. Now allthat house is like seven chimneys in it,
(11:28):
and at one time there was aworking fireplace in there, so it
would it had to I guess thathad to be a bunch of them that
were living down there, especially inthe winters in Virginia. Winters in Virginia
can be rough, especially back then. They would have been dealing with lots
of snow and it had been veryvery cold in that basement. And how
(11:48):
they survived, I don't know.Yo, Well, it's not like they
had central heat, central error,so no, no, not at all.
And imagine them having to live offwhatever food they were gay, you
know, they wouldn't have had thecalories to you know, keep them warm.
What a horrible existence. It's hardto believe that people actually was awful.
(12:09):
Yeah, people actually had slaves.I mean that's I can't even bear
to imagine what that would have beenlike. So it's to me when I
saw that story, I was like, well, I'm not really surprised that
their spirits did stay around. Imean, they probably well miss so much
misery that it's not just a fewspirits like some places have, it's hundreds.
(12:30):
And we think, you know,a lot of people speculate that you
know, when you live in acertain area that maybe you know, scientifically
there could be reasons for the amplificationof more spirits, and a lot of
people in England or Europe called laylines. It's which is a geometrical trail
that the dead usually takes to getfrom one lacation of the next, and
(12:52):
they can do it with you know, instant speed. Um. But we're
pretty sure with like geological stuff.We have limestone quarries all around that you
know, near that property, theriver surrounds the entire property. Then we
have you know, the railroad thatcame through there a long time ago.
That has, you know, surroundsproperty. And then we had a creek
(13:15):
right in front of our house.So you think about all these things that
are you know, they could evenbump it up more. It's like a
perfect storm. Now, what's goingon with the house now? Does anybody
live in it? Now? Meand my ex split up a few years
ago. We have a renter thatlives in there. But the bad thing
about it, since he's been there, he's suffered severe anxiety attack. Um,
(13:41):
he hears them, he sees them, but he really doesn't have any
choice but to kind of be therebecause the rent's pretty cheap to catch what
I'm going there with rum and he'shad several vehicle issues and we'll talk about
that later of how they can manipulatethat stuff. I've heard that electrical.
(14:01):
Yeah, you know, it's nota place that you just want to bring
any kind of stranger check. Andhis love life, his love life must
be hell to take care, youknow, to be able to understand what's
going on. I think being homelesswould be sounds better than me. I
don't know. I like I said, I had my own experience and there
was no way I couldn't stay thereanymore than anymore. I got to a
(14:24):
point where I'm like, Okay,I gotta leave more power to him.
I don't care how cheap it is, but hey, you know, that's
what he has to do. Sohe lives in the house, the old
house. He lives in the oldhouse, but he only is really using
like the bathroom, the kitchen,in the living room. He really doesn't
go through parts of the other house. All that part is like locked off
(14:46):
just because of several things, youknow, And we told him straight up,
you know, is this is prettyis haunted, pretty pretty haunted.
Yeah, and there are things you'regonna feel, And you know, I
just think, in all honesty,honestly, I just don't think he's going
to stay there too much longer,just for what I'm you know what my
(15:09):
gut tells me. I don't blamehim now. When I when I watched
the show, the lady on theresaid that the spirits want that house just
destroyed. Is one leveled because it'sjust not don't really agree with you don't
agree with that? Do you agreewith that? Yeah? No, I
don't. And there's several reasons.First, of all, it's a very
(15:33):
old historic home. Um, it'sa piece of history. There's not many
of those places that are left.I mean they're not right, especially like
in their original conditions like this oneis pretty much only very minimal, uh
updates to be made to the home. So you don't believe that then,
so I said, so, soyou disagree with that part of the show
(15:54):
when she said that, I didn'tagree with everything. No, I did
not. So let me ask youthis here. So, yeah, why
are they there? Why haven't theymoved on? What do you think?
I think they're stuck. I thinksome died tragically. I think some are
just mischievous, and then I thinksome of those things are just downright evil.
(16:15):
There's a lot more than just peoplethat have passed through that property.
Some had experienced some didn't, Butthe majority of people that have, you
know, did experience a lot ofstuff, you know that or were not
skeptics. And we had one mancome down that was totally skeptical with his
wife. We were doing a tourone time because it was more of are
(16:37):
we going crazy? You know?Is this just happening to us? So
we were just trying to figure outif it was more people that were,
you know, going to be effectiveby it. Well, anyways, I
would leave you know, the houseand go next door and they could call
me if they needed anything, andthey did within like twenty minutes. She
(16:57):
had a really pretty crazy experience,and he had an experience where he smelt
like tobacco being blown right in hisface. Wow, old Tommy tobacco right.
So there was that going on,and then there were um She also
(17:18):
thinks that something followed her home,and actually there was a person that was
working in her office building who actuallyseemed this dark shadow thing that was following
her as well. I want tosee a certain prayer, and I cannot
remember the prayer this time, butI told her what you know, that
she needed to pray, and shesaid that pretty much took care of it.
(17:41):
But she wanted to come back downagain. And at that point I
was kind of scared. I didwhen anything, because she was really sweeter
and her husband both were very sweet. I didn't want anything negative to start
happening to them. Why would theywant to come back. I don't get
that. I'd be like, no, I don't want to come back.
What else? That's a fine linethat you know, you don't know exactly
(18:03):
what you could be in store for, right, and I don't want to
re taken. I can happen rightwith them. You know, before people
could even enter that home, wehad them sign a liability. Oh yeah,
I'll bet you. Have you everheard of Bobby mackews. Yeah,
okay, I live by Bobby Man. I don't live that far from Bobby
Matthews. It's it's a nightclub.It's the most haunted nightclub in the United
(18:29):
States. I read a book aboutit, and, like I said,
I've never been there, and Iread a book about I mean, they
were in a book that I read. There's like all kinds of sworn statements
of people who have seen stuff.Even cops in that town have seen stuff
out in his club. A lotof people, I mean hundreds of people
have seen ghosts and spirits in there. So you know, I mean it's
probably in all the famous ghost showsin the world have been have been there.
(18:53):
I mean there's tours. I mean, it's it's a very very famous
place. Um, but yeah,I don't live that far from there.
It's over in Kentucky. It's rightacross shows about that. Yeah. Yeah,
so yeah, sure, you know. So I'm just saying that you
know people who are skeptical, butI'll tell you you see something or you
live through something like that experiences andnever forget him, and it does change
(19:17):
your life, changes the ford well, it changes you as a human being.
I mean, you have respect forthe dead, I'll tell you that.
And not only that, it makesyou question a lot of other things
you know of what you've been raisedand right right theological issues that you know.
I believe in God a Christian,yes, But when I had a
(19:41):
pastor come over to bless the house, um, I don't think he was
able to finish it the right way. He felt very uncomfortable and he just
kind of rushed through it. Ithink that if I was going to have
that done, I would have gonewith a Catholic priest. I mean,
I'm I go to Baptist church.I'm I go pretty faithfully and I was
raised as a loop. But Idon't know, I just I for something
(20:02):
like that. I wouldn't. Ithink I would only I'm not even a
Catholic, but I think that Iwould feel more comfortable with having a Catholic
priest come in. They seemed tobe more knowledgeable attempts trying to figure out
everything. I mean, then that'sno joke. Nobody could put the finger
on it. And you know wethought that. You know, I agree
with Amy on some things, butnot everything. Well yeah, and that's
(20:26):
not doubt in her right or herabilities, but it was just doubting everything
that was there, you know whatI mean. It was so much,
so many different aspects of it.Now she looked Steve didn't so much.
But Amy looked pretty terrified. Imean me watching her her facial expressions and
(20:48):
listen to her talk that was legit. She was terrified. I mean if
she put if that was an act. She put on a good act,
but she looked terrified. To me, no, I wouldn't. You know,
a lot of mediums and people thatare sensitive, they will feel what's
going on around him. But thefunny part, or the most relatable part,
(21:08):
when she was talking about her neckand back and stuff, it's never
been in that much pain. Yes, imagine being that kind of pain every
day of living down there. I'mstill in that pain. That pain will
never go away, you know,And that's a part of me with the
fiber mile that I did not havebefore you know, I believe the place
(21:29):
gave me. You know what,that's kind of strange stress. My ex
wife had fiber mylogia and I neverthought about it, but she really didn't
have the symptoms until after we leftLexington. Before when before we moved to
Lexington, she was fine, butnot long not I mean, it happened
after we left. I mean,I don't know. I'm not gonna say
(21:51):
they gave it to her, butI mean, I'm just saying, that's
just something you saying that made mejust think about her situation where she didn't
have it either until after we werethere. But um, you know,
I mean from my own experience,it's something very hard to explain. I've
tried talking to people about it whodon't who've never experienced anything like. As
a matter of fact, when Iwas on I got in a conversation with
(22:12):
somebody on Facebook this I put somethingon there and this girl had responded,
oh, I because I told herI put on there. Yes, I
lived in a haunted house. Andshe said, oh, you're so lucky.
I wish I lived in one.Man. I told her, you
have no f a idea what you'retalking about. I was like, no,
(22:33):
you don't. It doesn't bullshit.I was like, no, you,
it's absolutely terrifying. I'm like you, it's it's horrible somebody says that
they've obviously not had a true experience. Anyway. It's different from being touched
or a whisper. But when youhave things going well, we had,
(22:55):
we had stuff get like moved aroundand you could hear it walk. You
could hear it walking. We livedin this old townhouse and if somebody walked,
the floor would creak really loud,or if you walked up the steps,
it would creak. Nobody could walkon the top floor because it was
(23:17):
as a town house. It's twostories. But anybody that walked on the
top floor, if you were sittingdownstairs, you could always hear the floor
creaking. You could always follow wherethey were walking. We used to hear
footprints or people walking running coming upand down the steps. The steps would
creak on their own and nobody wasfreaking on them. So you heard that.
(23:41):
And then the other thing was myex wife and I could both.
It's really I don't even know howto explain it. You probably don't understand
what I'm talking about, but Ifelt like this, like you see those
cartoons and you see the guy walkingaround and there's the storm cloud and it's
just him and it's raining on him, you know, wherever he walks.
(24:03):
Yeah, it's that gloom and thisheavy, heavy feeling, like there's just
something sitting on you and you justfeel this yep, you feel this hate,
this this anger. I mean,I mean it's just weird. It's
just you can just feel something evil. Like I said, I can't describe
it any better than that cartoon guywalk around and he's just got the storm
(24:27):
cloud and it's just on him.It's a bright sunny day, but he's
got a storm cloud with rain.And that was how that was how I
felt. I was miserable. Imean, that's exactly how I felt.
You know, I used to bea very carefree, you know, very
happy person for the most part ofmy life. You know, I've had
but I've had lots of trauma aswell in my life. Um, but
(24:49):
when I moved down there, youand that's the thing people have to realize
sometimes it doesn't automatically just show itselfright off the bat. Yeah, I
mean one of their jobs, especiallythe demonic, is oppression and pretty much
I mean, you know, we'reoppression where you're just everything's alienated. You've
alienated yourself from your family, andI pretty much the entire time did not
(25:15):
have I think my mother came tovisit me like twice, yeah, within
that amount of time, and shejust didn't like the house, she didn't
like the property. She could feelsomething and you know, of course,
you know she was respecting at thetime, the marriage and stuff, but
things just kept getting worse and itjust made no sense to where you know
(25:36):
you started. You didn't take lifefor granted no more. Let's just say
that, or you're expecting something tohappen to yourself for you know, your
loved ones at time. So letme ask you this. I want to
go back to the religious thing becauseI'm also a Christian. Now I have
to say that, you know,I feel this confliction in me that,
Okay, I'm a Christian. Ibelieve in Jesus wholeheartedly. I attend Bible
(25:59):
study, I to church faithfully,I take my grandson, I pray a
lot. I mean, I havea very strong, strong faith in God.
But all my life when I grewup, I remember that passage about
God saying that you know when youpretty much when you die, I can't
remember trying to think of the passage, I can't remember. You have the
passage remembered by heart. To beabsent from the body is to be present
(26:25):
with the Lord. And that's oneof my favorite things. I don't know
if you've ever heard of that,but it tells you in them. It
says exactly that in the Bible.So it tells you that when you die,
you're you're gone from here, thatyou you're you're with God. So
there's still spirits and there's still entities. Things were left behind, And to
me, as a Christian, I'vealways had a hard time understanding that,
(26:48):
Like, wait a minute, theBible says that you're not here. But
then I guess there's people that itis possible for people to be left behind,
but there's people who don't believe that. They think that that's impossible,
that those are just you know thatthose aren't even those people anymore, you
know that died their demons or something. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe
it's not the person that died,Maybe it's something else that looks like that
(27:11):
person. I don't know. I'vealways had problems with that. I've always
had problems with you know, alsopeople if you have ghosts, your devil
worshiper will absolutely right. I'm thefurthest thing from it. I've heard that,
you know, yeah, as beingin the Bible Belt for sure,
(27:33):
in Virginia, you know, SouthernVirginia, Southwest Virginia specifically. You know,
it's it's something that's spread into youknow, you you were Bible school,
you know, Wednesday Sundays, nomatter what. But I will tell
you this, you know. Imean I even had a pasture one time
tell me over the phone that Iwas messing with something I shouldn't be,
(27:55):
and you know, I got reallyupset and I felt like nobody would help
me. I really did, becauseI felt like nobody was there to believe
me. Because and then I startedlooking at the science part of things,
Well, energy never dies, right, and that's what we are. Um,
that's something that is we're energy.That's exactly right. So you kind
of wonder when you have so manyof these things going on that's around you,
(28:22):
and I mean hundreds thousands, ifyou were somebody that is sensitive like
I am, or has you know, been through a lot of things dramatically
in life. I think that I'mkind of like a beacon to them.
And it's not like I get youknow, hey over here, I got
the one sign if they can seecome on, No, it's nothing like
that, right, you can't helpit, right, And it's it's it's
(28:48):
terrifying. I mean, it's reallyterrifying. Sometimes it is. I mean,
it's I mean, I'm thankful rightnow. I don't. I don't.
I don't see anything. I've notI've not experienced anything after the only
time in my life if I've experiencedanything was back in my own nine months
in Kentucky. But I've not.I've been fine ever since then. You
know, once I left that house, I felt fine. I felt like
(29:11):
everything was good. But then Ialways wondered, you know what, but
I'm a Christian, so that shouldn'thappen to me. But that's not the
case, you know. Um,if nothing else, I've learned that being
a Christian makes you more susceptible todemonic type things or evil spirits, because
it's almost like if you're i mean, if you're already evil, well the
devil's already got you, you know. But when you're trying to avoid evil,
(29:34):
then they're gonna try harder to workon you. So if you're a
Christian, you may even draw themmore you know, more evil to exactly
right, and they try to breakyou down from the inside out, outside
in. And you know, thereare times that I remember just praying to
God, help me, send somebodyto help me, you know. But
(29:56):
it just seemed like anything that Itried to do was like eradicated, you
know, somehow it would it wouldit be prevented, you know, it
would stopped. Yeah, it's justlike somebody doesn't want that to happen.
Suggesting I would take from others,you know, would not work. Right.
(30:17):
You try staging the house, youknow, doing a cleansing of the
house, you know, top thebottom, both properties, you know,
both houses, saucing around the house. Yeah, same prayers constantly, you
know, and we do everything.But that's where I think a lot of
it. It was a locational thingsissue as well. It wasn't just you
(30:38):
know, for the fact of thehouse, right, it wasn't a house
nothing more but structure. It's theland land. Yes, it sounds like
your land was cursed, yes,and your house happened to be on it.
I mean, it doesn't matter what. Yeah, I think your your
house was just happened to be onthat cursed land. So to me it
sounds like, yeah, it didn'tmatter what they put. Even if they
put a busines, if they puta Hamart there, I mean, or
(31:00):
a Walmart on that property, there'sgoing to happen. There's still there would
be weird stuff happening. I mean, I don't know, a stockboy might
be stocking something and see something funny. I mean, it's the land.
I mean, it's that's just howit is. And I just I just
think that that's just how it is. I mean, there's just some things
that I think as people were notmeant to understand everything, and we're not
(31:22):
going to ever be able to understandeverything. There's just things that just happen
and we just have to kind ofaccept it. All I knew. It's
something that is never far out ofmy mind. You know, it's nothing.
There were so much I mean,Mark, we would have like vehicles,
brand new vehicles have electrical issues.The old house after the Dead Files
(31:48):
came, one of the trees thathad been there for hundreds of years snapped
at the base and almost caved inthe house. But guess what we thought
it was going to cave in thehouse. It didn't. It barely did.
Or the dag um guttering, youknow, and then we had a
few months after they had came.We had updated the electrical a couple of
years before that. No issues.You know, every once in a while,
(32:10):
power with searge or something would youknow, kind of be going crazy.
But we always had issues with applianceslike blowing brand news. You know.
I can't even tell you how manyTV PCRs or DVD players, or
washers and dryers, restrigerators that wewent through in the house. I can't
even begin to tell you how manyit had actually blew. We had bought
(32:35):
a really expensive search protector, youknow, to prevent any issues. Well,
yeah, that's what it failed.And it had been working final under
about six years. It failed.And when it did, it blew everything
in the house, everything in thegarage, all right, just blew.
It burned it Friday. So Icalled the manufacturer of where they came,
you know, where it came from, and he was like just shocked.
(32:59):
He said, you know, you'rethe second one from this company and forty
years that that surge failed. Wellthat's the nation wide company that that right
there. I was like, yougot to be kidding me. Well,
the other people don't all live inhaunted house, you know, the power
companies, no power surgeries that day, there were no issues that day,
(33:19):
nothing, you know. So youstart thinking about, you know, all
these other possibilities. There's no logicalpossible, there isn't can't explain it.
So how old is that house exactly? That thing had to be easily over
one hundred years old. Well wethink the foundation goes back to seventeen oh
seven. Um, if the originalplace burned down, so we think it
(33:43):
was built twice actually so, butyou know, back then it's kind of
hard to keep records from you know, where they were at and where they
were located, right, So alot of stuff is harder to find.
But I did come across an articlewhere Starkey Robinson. I'm sure if you
watched the show you remember him livedthere to be eighty nine. He lost
seven of his fourteen children who died. Yeah, he was actually married three
(34:07):
times. I remember them talking aboutthat, the two wives side. Yes,
but he actually wrote a book andthere was passage in the book and
I'll try to remember if I canfind it where you can get you give
me that article. He even spokeof the spirits that remained. Well when
did he live there? Eighteen fortieseight? Okay, Yeah, and there's
(34:31):
people buried there right on the grounds. Yeah, I thought that's what they
said that there. Okay, Sothe cemetery is like directly across the old
house where the old house is,just like northwest or northeast across from it,
right beside the train tracks. However, we do know that the slaves
(34:51):
did not get buried with markers.They were just pretty much thrown in the
ground. Rocks were placed over himbecause there's a place on the property where
there's lots of wine stone rock.They really never honored the dead, and
back in the day, the slaveowners felt, you know, they all
it was a reminder to the slavesand you know, the thief that they
were always being watched over right,you know by their um slave master,
(35:16):
which is absolutely just horrific, youknow, treated worse than a pet.
Yeah. Yeah, they weren't consideredhuman. That's why they were considered They
just weren't considered human. They werelike the Americans, I mean, the
American Indian was the same way theywere. They were savages. They were
considered animals. They weren't even consideredhuman. That's that's why they found it
(35:38):
so easy to make slaves out ofAfricans and then to kill Native Americans.
I mean, when you're you're killingsomething that's not even a human being,
it's I guess that's your way ofmaking yourself feel better when you do it.
I guess. I don't know.I don't understand that logic, but
that's how it went. Well.They were Native Americans on that property well
(36:00):
too, from a long time ago, and it even talks about that when
from the seventeen o seven family thewoods that they were, they had to
battle constantly the Indians. You know, I believe that the property of the
way it sets would have been aperfect camp for you know, Native Americans
to live there because of the watersources and there was no really a way
(36:23):
to get it across unless back thenknew you had to ride a horse through
or go up a mountain and goall the way around. It was just
blocked off by water. And evenuntil the nineteen fifties there used to be
a hand roped ferry that was there. And that's how anybody that lived on
the land or lived up in themountain, would get to that property and
(36:45):
it would be open at some certaintime in the morning and would be closing
at nine o'clock every night, sevendays a week around And I think sometime
in the nineteen fifties they finally,you know, you know, build a
steel bridge. Then that was washedout in a flood I believe sixteen nine
or eighty five, I'm not toosure, but one or the other,
and he had to build another one. So it's a little bit crazy,
(37:08):
you know. It's just so it'slike layers and layers and layers of things
that went on on that property.I'm surprised you or your ex husband haven't
wrote I mean, to me,it would be a fascinating book. I
mean, a historical book. I'msurprised nobody, even a historian, hasn't
come along and wanted to write abook just about even if you leave out
(37:28):
the supernatural part, but if youjust want to write about the history of
that place. I mean, it'sgot a really interesting history. Oh yeah,
there's tons of history on that land. Now. I'm a big history
buff. I love history. Myson, yeah, my middle son,
Blaze, She's like, well,we need to do a documentary, and
I think that would be good,or even a movie. You know,
nothing that's hollywooded up, something thata documentary the truth about every day?
(37:52):
You wouldn't you would do a documentary, Yeah, and that's what you know.
A documentary is what I would ratherdo than anything else in a book.
I mean, we would have likeour animals and suddenly get sick and
passed. I had one dog rightafter Amy and them and visited. It
was like a couple of weeks orso, and his name was Storn.
(38:15):
Everybody loved the puppy. He's sosweet. And anyways, I was at
the computer in the dining room andyou know, you could just opened at
the module. You can see allthe way around the house, you know,
living room, kitchen, dining room, and there was no like blockade.
Well, all of a sudden,I heard like a snap, almost
like a whit swear to you,and the dog, because he was trying
(38:37):
to get up on the couch,just started wailing and screaming, you know,
as much as a dog could,you know, just will we end
up taking him to the vet.Now, And I'm gonna tell you something
about the number three. For somereason, things happened on that place with
the threes. We even captured seventhrees in mid air forming and formed and
(38:59):
then when it was just you know, going away, and that happened on
a Sunday at twelve thirty three.But we come to find out the first
X rays didn't show anything, secondx rays anything, the third X rays
showed three broken vertebrates and we're backjust snapped the net and you don't know
what caused it, and he endedup having a lot of issues after that.
(39:20):
It was really not a lot wecould do at the time, and
we ended up having to put himdown. Lots of stuff like that would
happen. You know, a puppywe would read border collies, and one
of our puppies, Honey, wehad actually were waiting for it to go
to its new home. She passedaway to night that that morning. Nobody
knows why, no, nobody,you know, she was healthy, everything
(39:43):
that they had already been to thevet and checked out. They have had
all their shots, everything was update, everything was fine. She was fine
one day in the day before andthen was dead the next. We had
end up taking all the door knobsone in the new house off because things
would like lock you in there,and there's no locks on these door knocks
into the bedrooms, just in thebathroom, and we would have to take
(40:07):
all the door knobs off of itbecause they would lock somehow and you could
not get in nor out of thatroom. Fire alarms would go off.
Fire alarms would go off numerous timesat night, during day, and you
know, there would be nothing cookingto set them off. There would be
the batteries were up to day,everything had been tested, and these things
(40:28):
with malfunction microwave would blow, youknow, TVs would blow, just the
craziest thing possible. You know thatyou just don't have an illogical explanation for
right, Well, it's all electrical. You know my children, you know,
one of them, yeah, reallyhas autism. Now. The bizarre
thing about this is that he wasfine, dabbling, you know, call
(40:52):
you know, saying short words,and he changed, you know sometimes people
see you can see it coming.He changed literally overnight, and it was
like his eyes went black, likesharp sides. He had no emotion,
no nothing. And this was atthe old house. He would get up
in the middle of like start runningand screaming and slam into a wall and
(41:13):
knock itself down and get back anddo it like repeatedly. We had to
do so many things to keep himsafe. Yeah, you know, he
started like biting them. I meanI had bloody noses, bruises all over
me from where you know. Iwas the only one that he would really
let touch. At this point,just everything could go wrong. Did you
think he was possessed? I thinkthe house had something to do with it.
(41:37):
Yeah, I really do. Ithink the property did because also I
did some hospitals care his uh,Troy's grandmother at the time, shed a
heart condition, so we took careof her and they said they gave her
two months. She actually lived amust year. The uncle, Troy's aunt's
(41:57):
cousin, died from some kind ofvirus around his heart. It's really rare.
And then a year, almost ayear to grandma's death, Roy's father
became really really ill and he passedaway. And then a couple of years
later I ended up having to takecare of Troy's other uncle, who you
(42:22):
know, just went downhill so fasthe died at fifty nine, you know,
And that was a lot of issuesthat you know, I would say,
sick things would have just all kindsof stuff that I can't even explain
would go on. You know,I'd have I'd see things constantly, get
pictures of stuff that it shouldn't beanything in there but but of my children.
(42:45):
There would be these other things inthere that looked like it was trying
to attack my child or you know, jump into my child's body. I've
had things that attacked me that actuallyI think was oppressing me so bad that
it was trying to get in andit was control of me a little bit.
Just was not acting like myself atall. I'm surprised you lived there
as long as you did. Ijust don't think I could have handled that.
(43:07):
I really don't well finances, youknow, after we built the other
house financially, and see, Iwas a chef for a while for a
long time, and when the Riverwas diagnosed with autism, I was just
so exhausted. I couldn't do itanymore. You know, I just could
not go on two hours of sleep. I had went on that way for
(43:27):
about a year, and just finallyI had to resign from my position.
I just couldn't work full time anymore. You know, it had taken so
much out of me because not onlywas I trying to find my son again
out of the deep dark abyss ofautism. And I believe the paranormal as
well. That I was just drained. I was so drained, you know,
(43:47):
Bizarre accidents would happen. Troy's brothergot shot accidentally on the property right
from the old house. They wereshooting a gun and the gun mouthfunction and
they off that had ejected the lastbullet. Well, the bullet actually went
through Jesse and went through his longpuncture just one collapses long and it's like
(44:09):
one fourth of a millimeter away fromthis like in his spine and his neck.
I believe that I'm as killing.That's a lot of tragedy, you
know, you know, just arandom things. Now, that's it random.
That is like a family home,right, I mean, it's like
I think you said it was past. It's a generational house. Yeah.
(44:30):
Um. They purchased the reasons purchasedthat part of property in nineteen thirty three.
There's the threes again, um,and have owned it ever since and
the boys will be fourth generation owners. Okay, So you know, and
sometimes I worry about if there's somekind of like bizarre curse on that property
(44:51):
or my boys are going to beaffected. You know, I'm still affected.
I still have chronic illness um.But now if anything, as he's
a become more aware of paranormal issue, you know, things that are going
on, and it's like I'm amedium in a sense and a sensitive and
impass and start like texting crazy stufflike when his uncle had it got really
(45:13):
sick and we didn't know what's goingon. We're at the hospital and they
had for some reason, it justcame out of the blue. I said,
check his lung and I think hehas lung cancer. Doctors came back
to no, he doesn't have nolung cancer. And so I went outside
and I talked to the position.I said, look, run run the
tests again. Do the tests again. I told him exactly where it was
(45:35):
at and told him the location ofit. And when they came back,
he pulled me out of the room. He said, how did you know
that? I said, I don'tknow, I just did you know?
It was weird. We would havetimes where we would leave, like from
the house and have like putrid smells. Okay, Troy would leave from the
house, go to you know,go to work or something, and I'd
be at home, and I wouldsmell the same thing. He would have
(45:58):
the same thing in the v hicleuntil he crossed the bridge and it just
went away like a huture smell ofvomit or you know, just disgusting sulver
smells um that they had no reasonto be there, right, that's a
pretty disc outside. Yeah, daynight didn't matters, Like so many orbs
in these pictures, it was justcrazy anybody that came down there that had
(46:23):
like ill intentions. I think someof the spears there had gotten protective over
me and the boys specifically. Theywould get like really sick pretty immediately.
Yeah, but I guess I'm guessingyou probably didn't have too many visitors out
there. Did you have a lotof people come out or constant visitors?
(46:45):
You know, I think the firstfew years when we lived there, we
may have had some gatherings and orbirthdays and stuff. And as time went
on and I just got to thepoint where I just didn't want people to
come down. Yeah. I wasso scared that they would take things home
with them, or they would pisssomething off and we'd pay for it,
you know, and things would fireup, and you know, without a
(47:06):
warning or anything like that, andI just didn't want to put anybody else
for him's away. You know,we were already taken to the brunt of
it, and I felt like,you know, I'm not gonna do that
to anybody else if they're gonna punished. And in which I felt like I
was a slave, I'm gonna bevery honest, like I had become a
slave to that place and U anddid in so many work ways. So
(47:29):
you know, I just felt likeit owed me had eat eat, eat,
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