Biggest COLLAPSE in Football History? CFL Grey Cup 111 Review

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well here we are back again. Happy Thursday. Everyone coming off.
Everyone's back home after the Gray Cup here, appreciate everyone
checking in. We'll put the pammel up here, all that
we've got Andy on here, Jason, everyone's on. We'll do
some Prephecy stuff here and then we'll kind of get
into everything. Thanks everyone for checking us out here backstate

(00:52):
side that. Jason's back of Hamilton that following the Gray Cup.
Appreciate that. Fifteen thousand plus watching the pregame show bad.
I'll get into more of that later. We'll talk through
Gray Cup recap today, kind of the collapse of Winnipeg.
We're going to talk the Rick Campbell, Edmonton elks BC
Lions news. We'll do stories and everything else from the
breakup today so I can subscribe. We're transitioning out of CFL.

(01:16):
We'll be moving into the UFL here. I think we're
getting the schedule here. Maybe at some point Andy and
that we had another pressure release today talking things about
the UFL. That isn't the schedule, but if you want
any of that, and once we started getting some actually
UFL episodes, well maybe we'll do some off season CFL interviews.
They just don't you know, Cody Fajardo or whoever for
twelve minutes kind of standalone, just doesn't really do it

(01:39):
on the YouTube. But let's go around the horn here
at Jason back in Hamilton. Jason, sir, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Doing good?

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Read?

Speaker 4 (01:45):
You know, all recovered from the trip out west and
you know, ready to talk about what we experienced over
the weekend.

Speaker 5 (01:52):
Evan, how are you?

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Evan getting on another flight here, he says, tomorrow back
home for Thanksgiving, American Thanksgiving, American thanks team.

Speaker 5 (01:58):
But Evan, how are you, sir?

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah? Doing well. It's been It's been busy man.

Speaker 6 (02:02):
You know, obviously I had some delays getting out there
to Vancouver for Great Cup, but really enjoyed my time.
We'll get into that. Made it back without any issues
and then on the road again, since that's what my
life seems to be nowadays. So yeah, all good man.

Speaker 5 (02:14):
Andy, how are you, sir?

Speaker 3 (02:16):
I'm great, But I just want to make sure.

Speaker 7 (02:18):
Did you have a hard time subtling on one of
your five hundred hyperbolic headlines for this podcast or are
you were satisfied with what you have?

Speaker 5 (02:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:27):
It was, you know, it was really hard because I'm
like every once in a while, I'm like sitting around
and you know, if we had done more, if I
hadn't been so busy this summer, like sometimes I like
to sit around the workshop.

Speaker 5 (02:35):
Yeah, it was like the CFL blew.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Our Mind and the Great Cup and I've got that
vid iq. They'll give you like a couple of free
ideas a day and I'm like, Okay, I gotta wait.
It's like you're doing the candy crush, right. I got
to wait twenty four hours and I can try.

Speaker 5 (02:47):
And get But I think it's good.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
I was already getting some Winnipeg people mad at me,
you know, talking about that.

Speaker 5 (02:52):
But I do think.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
I do think it's a little bit of a collapse here,
one of the biggest you could look at it. A
collaps of a game, collapse of a season, collapse of
a dynasty here. I know Siegal's big on that, but
lots of CFL stuff to talk about. Yes, Evan would
have been part of the live show, and I think
I said that off the top of our live stream, like, oh, Evan,
we'll talk about that.

Speaker 5 (03:11):
I don't think I ever did. I had a couple
of Moses before bron Ja Jason.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
I had, but Evan Delay get now a part of
everything else for a great Cup. It just wasn't able
to be part of the live stream real quick. Like
I said, thanks to everyone for checking out the stream.
I thought it was really cool. Obviously, last year's stream
kind of hit. I popped the algorithm, and I think
people looking for illegal streams, But we did about fifteen
thousand in Saskatchewan, did about fifteen thousand this week. I

(03:36):
feel like that's kind of at least a sample size
now for that, but more views than anything YouTube I
saw of anyone except that the cfl A post in
the game and then the halftime show with the Jonas Brothers.
But anyone else I bumped shoulders with all weekend that
was involved in the YouTube space. I thought I didn't
see anything else, So unless I'm mistaken, but that speaks
to me the importance of having that independent people like

(03:59):
us associated covering the league helps. Having a diverse set
of opinions helps you. Having people from down south, I
think Jason's always been a wealth of knowledge and kind
of in that more alternative space in Canada on the
other side, so it just further solidifies that. As we
look at the UFL and everything else. I think you
need to have a breadth of that. And I have
great respect for the Jeff Hamilton's and Tim Bayans of
the world and everyone else with news and everything, but

(04:21):
I think that this space and kind of figuring out
alternative ways to cover the league, I think it just shows.

Speaker 5 (04:26):
That Andy, what did you make of that?

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Real quick?

Speaker 1 (04:29):
I don't want to like you bend over and pat
ourselves on the back too much, but I thought it.

Speaker 5 (04:33):
Was a strong show, and I thought we did a
good job.

Speaker 7 (04:36):
I think just the sheer people that came up onto
your podcast was really impressive. I really liked the row
the media road there, and I especially liked the guests
that you had on. I know some of them are
repeats from years past, but you also had a really
good rotation of people not only just talking about as
you always do, not just the game, but also the

(04:57):
state of the league.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
It's a shame though.

Speaker 7 (05:00):
One person I will say I did not get to
meet this weekend was var Han Meet. Yeah, Farhan wasn't
on the show, and I didn't get to meet passed
by him. I didn't remember seeing him at all at
any juncture during the entire the entire weekend unless he
was on the sideline during the game. So it's unfortunately
because I really wanted to meet him. But other than that,
fantastic set of guests again, and I think that just

(05:21):
goes to show just the effort that you made to
make yourself known in the presence of the CFL media
escape and to draw those kinds of numbers from someone
who's so independent just in what four short years really
in work. I think is a testament to not only
the work you put in, but I also think it's
a testament to what can be done by others. I

(05:41):
think people can put in that effort. I know there
was conversation. I actually listened to the flight deck guys, who,
by the way, we're fantastic, Tim and Cliff, You're awesome,
Christ talk to them all weekend. But I listened to
their podcast and they made a point about how that
one thing that in regards to this topic, the CFL
could maybe do a little bit better as far as
having a media row and reaching out to podcasts more

(06:03):
like yes, I'm not I actually wanted to ask you,
did you reach out specifically to them or did did
they actually give you a bit of a line, because
that was one thing that they did mention on their podcast.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, no, there was, because obviously we were with BC
last year and so we were involved in all that.
I thought that was really tremendous to have the radio row.
I thought having Rob Peters and we'll do more kind
of I want to tell we'll have funny stories here
on the back end. But you know, having that, I
do agree there's growth for that. We were not invited
to be part of the the CFL Content Creators program.

(06:35):
I don't think I've done enough work this season to
justify that, But I think it's interesting when you look
at that of like, well, I didn't I didn't run
into anyone else. I didn't run into coach Phil. I
didn't run into the CFL right it there. I didn't
run I didn't see anybody there. And so I think
that they're working on that. I know that Christine in
the league was talking to me last year about that
about what we really want to incorporate more and and

(06:55):
and you know, kind.

Speaker 5 (06:56):
Of bolster that.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I just think if you don't, you know, like I
look at like Darren Balming as a perfect example of
like here's someone that you know has found the space
and carved that niche out of like, hey, you know,
we're not going to get the coverage that we wanted
Winnipeg Sports. We need to do that ourselves. I thought
that their post game stream was tremendous. I watched part
of it and then we were at dinner and I
watched a lot of it when I got back to
the room. And I think having that, just that wealth

(07:21):
and Tim m Cliffe and everybody else, I think it's
really important and it shows the bread that we can
reach when we all come together and you get a.

Speaker 5 (07:26):
Lot of different places to Seyeah.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
We were blessed enough to be a part of that,
but I think that needs to be concerted effort going.

Speaker 5 (07:31):
You know, just have a media row of podcasters if
you want.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
There's there's fifteen twenty people that you could get together
and build that out. Evan, anything else from you will
go Jason. Then we'll talk through the game here. I
don't want to bore people too much on the front end.

Speaker 6 (07:43):
Yeah no, I mean, look, it's a shame that I
you know, missed the show this year, and you always
do a great job with that. I thought this year's
was was equally good, and I think you know, having
Brian On specifically a player, you know, really kind of
enhanced some things. And you know that doesn't put anybody else,
you know, to shame or whatever. Everybody did a great job,
but you know, again, it's it's nice to see that

(08:04):
being worked in. You know, the fact again that all
that lined up is is still a bit crazy to me.
But yeah, man, it's just it was good to see
everybody up there. And you know, it's too bad that
I was a bit late, but still made the most
of it.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
In the end.

Speaker 5 (08:17):
So yeah, I thought it was crazy.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
And maybe Jason, you're real quick like the fact that
you know, we have Brian on and this is someone
that we've known for years in the media space and
the Spring leagues and everything, and they have him on
the show and it's kind of you know, okay, the
third stream, but we kind of know you and we
have history. But then Jason, to see him sitting there
and I was posting the photos like on you know,
on the Gray Cup stage and holding the trophy, and

(08:39):
it just I just felt like we were kind of
a part of that moment and a part of that journey.
It just it was just cool to show like we
are it is not that large of a space. I mean,
we all are very connected here and there's a lot
of overlap, and like Andy was talking to Mcliffe and
everyone else, like, it's it's not that large of a group.
And I think we do do a good job of
supporting that. But I thought that was cool. And the
other thoughts for.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
Me on that, Yeah, I mean Brian Scott, I mean,
you know, meeting him, he just seemed like such a great, genuine,
charismatic guy. Obviously you guys are very fond of them,
and it almost maybe want to cheer for Toronto in
the game, even though I'm a Tiger Tiger Cats fan,
and you know, ultimately like this show. I'm always amazed
by how you're able to put it all together, coordinate

(09:21):
all these guests. I think the unsung hero is Dorothy,
your wife, you know, coordinating all these guests and making
sure they're ready for their appearance on the show. So
it's really impressive what we've been able to do and
what you guys have been able to do in terms
of putting together the show every year.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
So yeah, and just see, so my mother watched the stream.
She said her favorite people were a that really nice
boy at the end, which I knew she met Brian Scott.

Speaker 5 (09:46):
I said, okay, that makes sense, and she goes, he
really loves you. He just really loves you. And then
she liked that man with the nice hair, and.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
I'm like, okay, we have we have a lot of
people with nice hair on the show, and Mike Coganes,
the man from Florida that Rob Peterson really liked. You
understand that man with a nice hair from four of them.
So anyway, we'll do more festival Steff here in a
little bit. We'll talk through all that. Andy will go
with you first. Like you know, you've seen the title
of the episode, Biggest Collapse, But I'll tell you. We

(10:13):
got to the media room that night following everything, and
we did dinner and everything else.

Speaker 5 (10:18):
I know, Jason was getting ready to fly back, like uh.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
There was a lot of questions being asked from the
Winnipeg people and we were starting to get the Jeff
Hamilton's of the world in there, and I mean even
Jamie and I and when Darren got in there a
lot of hard questions for the Blue Bombers. Okay, why
did we run Ary Moore and Zach Clariss's hand and
all that, Andy, what did you make of this? And
they're kind of having because real time, like and there
was even some kind of question in the in the

(10:43):
in the reporters room, like, well, was this a good
great Cup?

Speaker 5 (10:46):
I thought this was a classic great Cup.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
I don't know if it holds on a rewatch, but
I think going in and knowing and all the pressures
on Winnipeg and Toronto's coming in and really tremendous for me, Andy,
what did you make and the game.

Speaker 5 (10:57):
And then kind of the initial thesis and we can
break down.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
More well, I mean that's the thing.

Speaker 7 (11:02):
You can look at the box score and just say, well,
this doesn't seem like it was very close up a match.
For all of us who were sitting there, we very
much felt the tension from the get go and felt
it really until they were about six minutes or four
minutes left in the fourth quarter that it dissipated because
of that pick six at the end or near the end.
But you see the thing is is that that tension

(11:23):
was there the entire time because you just didn't.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Know what was going to happen with the argos. You
didn't know if they're going to be able to perform
on offense.

Speaker 7 (11:30):
You didn't know if was Winnipeg finally going to complete
the dynasty, and they demonstratively did not. And I know
there are people out there who will make the argument
that it is still a dynasty because they've made five
straight Great Cups. But listen, the rule is this, you
are not getting a dynasty because you participate. You're getting

(11:51):
a dynasty because you win. You won two out of five,
and the general rule is that you win three or
four in a certain span of time, five seven years,
whatever you combination you wish, but there has to be
a certain set of time with a certain set of
players that make that qualified. I'm sorry to Milt Stegel,
he was very demonstrative on the show afterwards on TSN
and said that it was a dynasty. I disagree with him,

(12:14):
and I think many other people would just based on
how it was. And yes, while you could make an
argument that it was been a pig falling flat and
there are a lot of many shortcomings they have, Toronto
just came out and won the game. They had an
excellent game plan. Ryan didwin. He is one of, if
not the best coast from this league. He has done
nothing but be successful since he took over this Toronto regime.

(12:36):
He has won with multiple different quarterbacks. He has taken
a roster that got gutted in the offseason. I know
they were able to replenish some of that roster talent,
but still it would remain to be seen what they
would do with it. And he has just come up
roses every single time. He has gone to four straight
Eastern Finals. He's won two out of the three years
in the Great Cup. I mean, in any case, Toronto

(12:58):
is the one that's gonna start possibly making a scene.
It was the biggest irony to me personally was seeing
that guy with that sign. As we were coming out
of halftime, they showed it on the JumboTron, that guy
that's had the sign that said a dynasty will be
born in thirty minutes. And I'm sitting there being like,
I hope that doesn't come back to bite them. And
now I'm almost sitting there being like, is that a
prophecy for the other team? Because that was a Winnipeg

(13:19):
fan that was holding that sign. Now I'm starting to
think could Toronto potentially be making a run here in
the next few years And They've shown that it does
not matter what assets they have, it does not matter
what injuries they sustain, it does not matter what controversy
did they go through. They have been successful this entire
time under the Dinwidgier regime, and that, to me is
what stuck out the most.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Let me leave probably Jason here just talking on that,
and obviously as a Bills fan and you know plenty
and not to rub but you know, you know plenty
of you know, making it to the super Bowl and
participated and not curious how that relates to your thoughts
and then thoughts in the game because I was fortunate
augh there was I was able to sneak up and
get a seat. They just happened to be And I
can tell about Garth later next to Garth my man.
I sat next to you, next to me from Saskatchewan.

(14:00):
But I was able to you know, we were with
you two during the game. So curious your thoughts on
that and as relate it's to kind of the dynasty
talk as well.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Well.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
I think there's something to be said about getting to
the championship game in any respective sport. I've always considered
that you know better than losing. Like before, that, you know,
I think there's something to be said for that. But
at the same time, you can't call this the dynasty
just because what Andy said, winning three championships in a
certain span of time, that's really what the definition is.

(14:29):
And ultimately they have not been able to, you know,
close you know, that third championship, and they've had three
cracks at it. They've arguably been arguably been the like
heavy favorite in every single breakup that they've been in,
and ultimately they've been very disappointing in a lot of
these games. Zach Claire is continuing to struggling. Great cups

(14:49):
obviously suffered the injury in the second half of this one,
and we'll get to it, but I don't think, like,
given the extent of the injury and what we knew
after the fact that he should have been put back
in to the game. I think they should have just
rolled with the backup, just given the fact that he
couldn't really grip and throw a football. So, you know,
ultimately it's very disappointing for Winnipeg. I don't consider them
a dynasty right now. I mean, they could still if

(15:12):
they win next year, they get to sixth straight, they
win three out of six, I would still consider them
a dynasty. But ultimately it's going to be very interesting
to see going into next year in a hosting Great
Cup year, if they can get back there.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Well, I want to circle back to the Clara stuff
because I've been kind of reading this week and I
haven't had just trying to get back in this wee
a deep dive on that.

Speaker 5 (15:33):
I was reading about the pets, Suspenser and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
But Evan to you, we were talking in the group
chat about like in almost now with Toronto, it almost
takes away from Winnipeg's wins or they were only able
to win against Hamilton's or like retroactively now this has
changed kind of any of the thoughts of the games
that Winnipeg had won.

Speaker 6 (15:52):
Yes and no, I mean I think you know Winnipeg again,
it was a very interesting situation because they won in
twenty ninth team against Hamilton in very commanding fashion, and
then you had a COVID year and they came back
out and won and again. So I think it's really
impressive that a season was canceled and they were still
able to come back and win the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
And look, I understand the.

Speaker 6 (16:13):
Twenty twenty one season was shortened due to COVID and
it was later in the year, and you know, there
were some variables there that we might not see again.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
But with Toronto, it's almost more.

Speaker 6 (16:24):
Impressive these past two wins that they've had against Winnipeg.
And yes, I understand they're against the same team and
that's kind of you know, maybe the argument that we're discussing,
but if you look at you know, the Argonauts team
in twenty twenty two that won it. You know, the
MVP of that game was Hannack Mwamba. You know who's
now panelists on TSN. You know, McLeod Bethel Thompson was

(16:46):
the quarterback who went to the USFL and then went
back to the CFL this year with a different team.
But you know, and it was in that Great Cup
that Chad Kelly played really for the first time and emerged,
you know, and then went on and had the sixteen
and two season, and obviously this year with his suspension,
we didn't get to see him as much, and then

(17:07):
the unfortunate injury that led to Nick Arbuck was starting
in the Gray Cup. But it's incredible, you know, they've
had now four different maybe even five different quarterbacks you know,
over this time span between twenty twenty two and twenty
twenty four, you know, and they still got the job done.
It hasn't mattered to them. Again from it starts at

(17:28):
the top, you know, with management and personnel to construct
the roster. And then Andy's already talked about Ryan Didwiddie, who, yeah,
I really think deserves some credit, you know for what
he's done. And again I understand, you know, Coach of
the Year Jason Moss being the pick out of the East,
Like I get it, you know, And not to take

(17:48):
away from what Jason Moss did either or Corey Mace
or any of those candidates, but what Ryan Dinwood he
has done with that team is incredible. It has not
been an easy journey for him. And I remember before
the game started he mentioned he said, well, we've earned
the right to be here, you know, we deserve this
and and we think we can go out there and compete,
and sure enough they did.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
So.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, now you kind of.

Speaker 6 (18:07):
Enter a new conversation where, uh, you know, Winnipeg's dynasty.
I'm not going to say that it's closed yet. Again,
you're hosting the Great Cup in Winnipeg next year, so
maybe they make a push. We'll get into all that later.
But Toronto having won two out of the past three
with very different circumstances, i'd say in each of the
games is extremely impressive and hopefully they can keep that up.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
So any I think there's and I'm kind of pulled
at the stats here just because obviously we were at
the game, which Mike normally I gotta go back and
do this like refresher chorus before the stream. But I
think there's a couple of different questions to tire right
here at one and I know Evan will have thoughts
lay that. You know, our buckles performance right I think
Evan and coined them heart attack passes, many of them

(18:52):
during the game that were very close to being picked
or intercepted. You have claras right now X member of
Great Cups with multiple turnovers, no touchdown passes, all that stuff,
and then the lack of OLIVERA. I know that was
kind of the touching point when we got back to
the suite, was you know, how do you have the.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Mop like that?

Speaker 1 (19:11):
You know only have eleven carries eighty four rushes. Obviously,
you know, once the game gets out of hand and
we're throwing and that exacerbated of the number of interceptions
that Clara's throw. Where do you want to start Andy
kind of with any of those storylines. Obviously there's a
million other ones if you have anything else as.

Speaker 5 (19:24):
Well, but those are kind of the three that stuck
out to me, the easy ones.

Speaker 7 (19:28):
I never thought I'd be going into this game thinking, boy,
I think Winnipeg's going to miss Drew Brown. But you
know what, that's kind of the case here, because let's
look at the facts here. Terry Wilson came into this
game when Zach was out, when he got taken to
the locker room and apparently his finger just split open.
I mean, some of the reports on that will make
me nauseous just think about it. But Terry Wilson comes

(19:49):
in and he almost throws a pick to Benji Franklin,
which would have been his second of the game, into
the end zone.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
He absolutely had it right in his mits.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
And yeah, I was amazing, And it was right in
front of us where we were, I think all of
us because Jason was on on that side too.

Speaker 7 (20:01):
It was and so you know, Terry Wilson's not throwing
the ball very well. So you're thinking, as an officer coordinator,
Buck Pierce, well, I don't know if I can put
him back in, but Zach clearly can't throw the ball.
And Zach had kind of admitted to such afterwards, like
he really struggled and you saw it immediately he throws
that pick right off the Baudery. I think it was
to I think it was to Amos Sean Amos maybe

(20:22):
and then he I mean, he just struggled mightily and
it just started to unravel very quickly.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
To the point about Brady oliver Era.

Speaker 7 (20:30):
I mean, the thing that I just didn't really understand
is why they were so adamant about throwing on first down,
and especially after Zach came back from injury.

Speaker 3 (20:37):
They continue to do so.

Speaker 7 (20:38):
I think they absolutely had an opportunity to continue, at
least trying to work Brady Olivera into the lineup. He
probably could have had a few more rushes and maybe,
you know, maybe there were tendencies that perhaps Toronto was
keenan on of him running and maybe it was maybe
just in the formation it didn't set up to be so,
but you would have thought that he would have been
a little bit more involved, just considering what was going
on around him, especially from the passing game standpoint, So

(21:01):
that to me just kind of surprised me. And I
know there were a lot of people, a lot of
Winnipeg fans that were a bit upset with Buck Peterson's
play calling afterwards, but just kind of the management of
the injury with Zach Kolaros, I think really threw a
wrench in the plans. And once apparently I read somewhere
where apparently went did what he found When they saw
that Colaros was warming up and they saw how he
was throwing, they thought we got this.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
And I have that kind of.

Speaker 7 (21:23):
Confidence as a team when you see the other teams
that one of their best assets being hurt, I think
really was telling.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
Especially in that fourth quarter.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Well, it was wild because we were sitting there on
that side and I you know, I saw Clara, So
I just happened to look down and saw Claris run now,
and I'm like, well, he's either like obviously he's not
limping off the field, so he's either got to go
make a bathroom break or like something.

Speaker 5 (21:44):
So we just really was sure.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
And I think it was Anthony Miller in the group
chat obviously watching on TV back in the States of like,
oh well here, you know, like and it was kind
of nice for all the people on our section because
we kind of get the insights we didn't you know,
we not get in the game broadcast.

Speaker 5 (21:59):
And all that stuff. Jason, were you surprised with that?
And like here?

Speaker 1 (22:02):
You know, I mean, Michael shay Is is revered as
a coach of anyone in the league, right, and I
know that all the media and everyone speaks really highly
of him and obviously a great guy.

Speaker 5 (22:12):
On and off the field.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
But you know, they have multiple games now be out
coached by Dinwidy and then kind of seeing his reluctance
to kind of do anything else when the game was
getting out of him.

Speaker 5 (22:21):
What did you make of that, Jason?

Speaker 4 (22:23):
Yeah, I mean I think I said this on the
on the pregame show that I think Ryan Dinwiddie may
be the best coach in the CFL. I think he
may have taken that title from Mike O'Shea. I mean
even before the game during the pregame show, like I
was saying, I thought that, you know, Dinwiddy had a
case and I think with winning this game being too

(22:44):
against him in great Cups, like you were saying, I
think you have to give him that title at this point,
and just the game plan that he had for Nick
Arbuckle win this one. Nick Arbuckle, I mean, he made
his mistakes and this one had the two picks. I
think he had a couple of dropped interceptions that you
alluded to, but ultimately they did a good job of
making stuff pretty easy for him. I think they had

(23:05):
some screen passes that you know, you know, the Kevin
Mattal touchdown that was a good little swing pass, get
the ball out of his hands quickly. Arbuckle still had
to make some plays and that's why he was named
MVP of this game. But ultimately they did a good
job of you know, setting up those screen passes and
really involving the running backs and making it easier on them.
And I think ultimately, at the end of the day,

(23:28):
that's a big reason why Toronto was able to have
success and ultimately win this game and go three and
oh against Winnipeg on the season.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, it's you know, our Buckle got the MVP and
we can talk about that like little trophy kind of
thing like that his daughter was holding. It felt like
it was almost like a toy.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
For her, but there wasn't really a standout, right Evan.
Was that your take?

Speaker 1 (23:50):
I mean it felt like it was a It was
not in a bad way, but it was more of
a group effort from Toronto there. I mean, obviously Knicks
to quarterback. Why did you make of that?

Speaker 6 (23:57):
Yeah, well, look, I think the best player in the
skate was Willie Jefferson. And I've probably said it on
the show before at some point, you know, back when
we were doing this regularly. But you know, Willie Jefferson, man,
I mean, he's one of my favorite players in the league.
And watching him in that game, you know, the way
that he was able to essentially take over on defense.
You know, I still feel like Winnipeg's defense put up

(24:18):
a pretty good effort there obviously through three and a
half quarters, but he, you know, really excelled and I
almost would have given him the award in that game anyways,
regardless of who won, you know. Yeah, for like, if
I had to pick MVP, you know, the guy that
I think makes the most sense would probably be winning McManus,
you know, you have. I was telling Andy, I think

(24:40):
during the game, if there was like a playoff MVP
just for somebody who had had a good run in
the playoffs, it would have been Benji Franklin with his
interceptions and you know, he made so many critical plays
at critical times. I think that's a guy you know
who really kind of I don't want to say came
out of nowhere, you know, because I knew who he
was before he signed and before he started gaining some
traction there. But uh, you know, really again came up

(25:02):
big when it mattered. So yeah, look, man, I you know,
in terms of the game overall, I'll start with Winnipeg side.
You know, I think, yes, some of the play calling
you know, could have been better, you know, And then
I don't know, it didn't look very good in the
first half, Like it wasn't bad, but then the Cholaros
injury was just where you kind of knew that things

(25:24):
were probably.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Were probably done. I you know, I still gave him
a chance.

Speaker 6 (25:29):
Like again, we didn't know the severity of the injury
sitting there, but uh, I remember when he came back
onto the field and it took me a minute to notice,
but he had an entire glove on his throwing hand,
and I thought, oh boy, you know, that's uh that
would suggest to me that his injury is pretty serious.
And of course, as we found out after the game,
you know the way Zach said it, in the way
a couple other people said it. I mean, you know,

(25:51):
the fact that somebody's finger looks like a pez dispenser
is extremely alarming. And you know, maybe, Yeed, you should
have kept Terry Wilson in. It's a differ decision though,
right I think, you know, I almost wonder Andy had
mentioned Drew Brown, but like, if Chris Streveler was healthy,
you know, what could he have done in that game?
Because I remember, I think it was Winnipeg's first Grade

(26:11):
Cup run in twenty nineteen, which is when I first
kind of started following the league. He was a really
key contributor there and he you know, they almost had
a two quarterback system where he was able to come
in and really give the offense a boost when needed,
and you know, maybe that would take away from some
of the play calls that weren't so good. So for Winnipeg,
it's just unfortunate. I think, you know, look, if Claros
doesn't get hurt, he wasn't playing well before that, but

(26:34):
they still might have had a chance you know, to
turn it around. I went back today just randomly and
watched the twenty twenty one West Final where Blue Bombers
turned it over five times but still won the game
because at the end Winnipeg went up twenty one to
seventeen on a touchdown and then got a defensive stop.
So you know, maybe in a different world that would
have been the case. As for Toronto, yeah, just again,

(26:57):
incredible game plan by Ryan, didn't witty setting nick arbuckle
up for success. Look our buckle, you know during that game,
you know, was he perfect? No, and I didn't expect
him to be. I think one of the keys to
that game for many people going in was, you know,
you can't put this all on our buckles shoulders.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
You really have to.

Speaker 6 (27:15):
Other people are gonna have to step up, and they did,
you know, especially on defense. Again, I think that was
the story was Toronto's defense, like our buckle kind of
got them to where they needed to be. He got
them in a position to win the game. But then
Toronto's defense really took over and well, you know, they
also took advantage of close as injured hand and kind
of said, you know, we've got this from here and

(27:37):
rode that game out in the final five minutes. So look,
it was a very impressive performance by them. Unfortunate in
the sense that I think some people who didn't watch
the game will look at the score and think, well,
that was you know, maybe a waste of time. But
in reality, no, like if you watched it that game,
you know, going into the fourth quarter, even with like
seven minutes left, by no idea who was going to win.

(28:00):
So it was a great game, and you know, well,
well done to both teams. I know it's it's tough
for Winnipeg and we'll you know, I'm sure we'll get
into that more here is the show goes on, but
you know, well done by both teams being there, and
congratulations to Toronto.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, it was because even Dorothy obviously had to fly
back early for her uncle's memorial and she was, you know,
tracking the game just on her phone and she texted me, wow,
you know, the game seems really close and then obviously,
you know, totally unravels there. I thought it was funny
because I texted Paul Sanchez, you know, formally here whatever
after the game, and I go, you know, Brian Scott's

(28:34):
a great Cup champion, and Paul immediately texted me a
selfie of him. He went and put on his Toronto
Argos jersey that I think Josh had be mailed to
him like three and a half years ago ago. Oh,
it must be nice to kind of pull that can
without getting to graphic. And someone explained to me the
pez dispenser analogy. I don't understand that, Like how the finger.

Speaker 5 (28:52):
Jason, did you fall?

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Like we was it like, Oh, I didn't understand that metaphor.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
No, I didn't. I didn't get that metaphor. Or I
just that's the first time I've heard it just on
the show here.

Speaker 5 (29:03):
No, I saw that, I mean three down? Did the
ride up?

Speaker 4 (29:05):
Then?

Speaker 1 (29:05):
It was it looked like a peasant spence, right, So,
like was it because the peasants fence like opens or
was it like the peasant spencer, like the head opens
and like was the finger opened like that?

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (29:15):
Well look that was maybe the tip of the finger.

Speaker 6 (29:17):
Yes, Pez dispenser typically opens up to where there's a
bit at the bottom that's kind of hanging off, So
I assume they meant that with Zach's finger was kind
of uh, you know, okay, all right, I mean, look,
I'm not the one who made the analogy. I'm just
going off what's been thrown out there in.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
The media already.

Speaker 5 (29:33):
So that I was.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Curious because I'm like trying to talk to you Doory
about the way it sounded like it was really bad
so Andy. I mean the fact that you know, Michael say,
you'd see Clara's come back in. Okay, let's give it
a shot, right comes in immediately what either sailed the
pass right through the pick?

Speaker 5 (29:53):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Then we go back to that again, like obviously you
know you got Terry Wilson. We've talked about that, but like,
are you just at that point, I mean you go
down your starting quarterback. I mean that's I guess you
when you have that question like should we have kept
the Drew Brown or had someone there that we felt comfortable,
you know, throwing passes with something were to happen knowing
the CFL and you know, especially where Zach isn't necessarily

(30:16):
iron man. I mean, Zach misses games, miss games this season,
miss games last year?

Speaker 5 (30:20):
What did you make it at y D?

Speaker 7 (30:22):
I think part of it was just unfortunate timing for them,
because to go back a week before that, I mean,
Zach Klearro's had a fantastic game against Saskatchewan and absolutely
eviscerated their defense in a game that they just absolutely
crude stopped them.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
And that's why the spread was as high as it was.

Speaker 7 (30:39):
It got started at ten, and I think it went
that down to nine plus nine or minus nine or
minus eight in some markets. But I mean, basically teams
were saying, this is yours to lose, like you're heavily
favored in this game, and part of that was because
of how their offense was performing and how the team
was performing up until that point. So while it's unfortunately
the injury happened, I don't really necessarily blame Peg for

(31:00):
not having someone immediately behind him. Because they lost Traveler
obviously lost during the season Drew Brown. They were never
going to pay enough money to keep him back, especially
when he was basically garnering starter money, which he got
in Ottawa. So it's hard to kind of say, well,
I wish he had another quarterback behind him. I mean,
I always am a proponent of developing people behind the quarterback,
but sometimes circumstances just don't lead up to that. And again,

(31:23):
I you know, maybe they were just happy enough of
what Terry Wilson brought to the table that they were
willing to see what happened. But again, you can't anticipate
that your starting quarterback is going to go out, which
again is why it's so incredible that our Buckle was
able to do what he did, coming in for the
likes of Chad Kelly in this big of a game,
a guy that never started a playoff game. Ever, our

(31:44):
Buckle's been in this league for a while, He's had
a lot of games, he's never started a CFL playoff game,
So more of a testament to didn't winning his staff.
But for the Bombers, I mean, it just it was
terrible luck. And as soon as he threw that pick
to Robert Priester, who was running back, even before Robert
even got in the end zone, I was yelling out,
it's over.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
It's gone. Like that's it, The game was over.

Speaker 7 (32:06):
It was just such a finality point of that match
and really just such a stamp on what the Argos
had done.

Speaker 5 (32:14):
It's fine just pulled up.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Brown was on a two hundred and eighty six thousand
dollars contract with ottomis said to go up to three
hundred and forty thousand and with it says like, should
have done the BC route there? Should they get some
marketing money in there and get Drew Brown under that Jason. So,
you know, in the beginning of the game, obviously a
lot was made of Toronto not going for the you know,

(32:36):
settling for the field goal, not going for the touchdown,
and we're thinking like, oh my god, like that's going
to be the story of the game, right, like Toronto
had to had whatever, and they lost the momentum lucky
Whitehead and fumbling, and I think, you know, if Andy
Murray wants to check the momentum eter, I think that
swung it back the other way.

Speaker 5 (32:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
I guess having lived through the game and kind of
things that you thought were going to be touched on
where really it was just ended up being Zach Clariss's
finger was falling off. You know, Winnipeg didn't have a
backup plan for that. I thought of anything else in
the game that way, of just the things that we
thought were going to matter, and then they're kind of
find their takeaways of that and then we can start
looking towards kind of the future here.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
Yeah, I thought the biggest play of the game was
that Lucky Whitehead fumble because I thought that Winnipeg had
the game.

Speaker 5 (33:18):
Yes, it was close.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
I thought they were still in control of the game
at that point, but the fact that they fumbled and
then I think that was when the Kevin Mattal touchdown
happened a couple of plays later, maybe the next play,
and that's when Toronto was like really starting to believe
that they could win this thing. And there was also
another key play where I believe it was a blocked
punt that Winnipeg was going to get the ball deep

(33:42):
in Toronto territory, but they got a penalty for I
think it was loose ball interference is what it's called,
and they the guy for Winnipeg pushed the Toronto player
in the back, and you know, I was saying to
Alex my girlfriend, I don't know what that penalty is called,
but I know you can't just push someone in the
back like that. And sure enough that you know, Toronto

(34:02):
retained possession of the ball and that would have been
a crucial play for Winnipeg in the game. So ultimately,
we say it all the time in football, it often
comes down to a couple of plays during the game.
And I think if Winnipeg had had those couple of
plays go in their favor or not happened at all.
I think we're talking about a pretty different ballgame. And
you know, obviously, if they had kept Brady olivera more

(34:26):
involved in this game. And it's the most baffling thing
to me about that is that he had a lot
of success in this game. He was getting chunk run
after chunk run, but they decided to ride with Zach
And you know, it's crazy, considering how he's played in
these great Cup games that they trusted him more than
Brady their mop.

Speaker 5 (34:46):
Yeah, it was funny.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
The we didn't know either obviously in the stands, and
I think they announced the penalty, we could really hear it,
and then we were texting Anthony Miller and Pat I
think we.

Speaker 5 (34:57):
Was watching, like see what's going on.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
And finally I think Naylor tweeted out the rules and
I was just like, big step, like because we're like
everyone in the stands is like knowing. It was like
last night at the Cracking game, the Predators had a
they called a penalty twenty seconds into the game where
they had actually announced a different starting lineup than they
had started and like no one had ever Like everyone
on cracking tours like I haven't following hockey, you know,

(35:21):
thirty years. I've never seen that before. So it was
kind of one of those things. Andy. Let's start looking
forward here, right. We saw Chack Kelly on the you know,
from the parade, screaming very loud into a microphone.

Speaker 5 (35:35):
I wasn't as happy to see that.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
I enjoyed seeing our friend Mike Cogan getting to introduce
the Argonauts. I said that a message on off of
our behalf to Mike Cogan, congratulating him and saying thanks
again for all that stuff. But obviously Nick Arbuckle did
not play enough. Chack Kelly will come back and do that.
What are your thoughts on Toronto moving forward and then
Winnipeg here, because you know your.

Speaker 5 (35:53):
Hosted next year. Everyone's talking.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
It would be a sheer irony would be to have
a Winnipeg not be in the next year.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Certainly wouldn't be.

Speaker 7 (36:01):
I mean, it'd be even funnier if Saskatchewan made that
game and then suddenly they forced their hands to try
and sell tickets. If they did a reverse Uno card
from when they did it in twenty twenty two, that'd.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Be quite something.

Speaker 7 (36:13):
But yeah, to look at at Toronto a little bit,
their free agent list is quite extensive here. They've got
a lot of decisions to make, as most CFL teams do.
Nick Garbuckle Cameron Dukes are set to be free agents.
Kadem Carey, he's getting up there in years. He was
great this year for them. I don't know if they
necessarily bring him back. Devonte Koxy, who's really made a
lot of big plays and he's set to be a

(36:33):
free agent. Janarian Grant, they're fantastic returner. I imagine they have
to bring him back in some capacity. Jake Crezna, a
guy who's a fantastic pass rusher. Their defensive backfield, it's
all the defensive backs that's really the biggest list here.
Guys like Royce Machi, Robert Priester, to VARs mcfadd and
Deshaun Amos really key starters and contributors in the secondary.

(36:55):
They got to kind of think about maybe replacing going forward.
But you know, the thing about this game, and this
is kind of the brilliance of the Argos and what
they've done the last few years. They've always managed to
find a way to kind of replenish their talent and
restock the shells. I mean, Kevin Mattaal scoring a touchdown
a rookie who's afterwards said that this meant more to
him than winning the Banya Cup and the head Crichton

(37:16):
Trophy obviously is one of the best players in youth
sports in Canada. He winning that, you know, the way
they won, the way he scored that touchdown, the go
I had touchdown kind of was like a picture into
the future of the shape of the argos to come
in a way. So yes, we'll see if Chad Kelly
is able to return healthily, whoever they bring.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
In as the backup.

Speaker 7 (37:39):
Maybe they bring you know, Brian Scott back, who knows,
maybe they keep him around.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
We'll see.

Speaker 7 (37:43):
You know, that would be quite the clout for this
podcast if that was the case. But yeah, I mean,
I have no really no issue with how they're going
to be able to replash their talent because they always
seem to find a way. Although there are some other
structural things we can get into later about what's going
on with the team later on down the road, but
as far as Winnipeg goes, I mean, it sounds like

(38:04):
everybody's trying to come back. Adam Bill big Hill said
he's trying to come back. Stanley Bryant says he's trying
to come back. A lot of the guys are obviously,
you know, Father Time is undefeated, and Father Time's gonna
have to come collect here at some point.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
You know.

Speaker 7 (38:15):
Klaris's health is always in question. He's getting up there
in years. Brittie Oliver is really the kind of the
centerpiece here. I mean, he's still in his prime, so
you could still utilize him, but there's still a lot
of other pieces that have to think about. The question
for them is can they replenish that talent quickly enough
to still be competitive. This is kind of the same
problem that the New England Patriots had when they had
their first dynasty run in three or four years. Then

(38:36):
everybody got really old. Tom Brady and Belichick were still there,
but it took them a while to really get back
into contention. So is that gonna happen here with Winnipeg.
I'm not sure, but I just see like everyone's kind
of waiting for the cliff, right, Everyone's waiting for wins.
When did they get hit the cliff? Is it gonna
be next year? Is the year after some people thought
it was this year, and it looked like it was
for a month, but they seem to be in at

(38:57):
least more questionable shape in my opinion, at least it's
far as Toronto goes. Even if Toronto might have a
bigger free agency see list, I think I have a
little bit more confidence that Toronto's going to try and
figure it out if things you know, change, as opposed
to if Winnipeg just you know, finally hits the wall.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
One side note here we'll toss to Evan thoughts on
this continuing conversation, but just you know, I know a
lot of people probably thought famously, you know the Mark
cast curse, where you know, Ben Holmes didn't go on
the podcast and then went on and won a Great Cup.
But with Toronto, I'm sure people were like, well, Brian, like,
you know, Brian was on the show and then he
went and on a those sitting down behind the scenes,

(39:33):
there's many other times that Brian was supposed to come
on the podcast and didn't. So I think that that
the No Show still holds true with Brian Scott No Show,
that he's probably got three more Great Cup runs in him.
That Brian's a crew by No show in the podcast
before that's getting kick into Effects. I just thought that
was interesting, Evan. Yeah, where does winnebeg go from here?
Where's Toronto go from here?

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, it'll be interesting.

Speaker 5 (39:55):
You know.

Speaker 6 (39:55):
I think it's pretty clear that, you know, this will
be a big off season in the league. Is gonna
be a lot of change, you know, Winnipeg, like Andy
already pointed out, father time is gonna is gonna catch
up at some point and has to collect. Like I remember,
you know, doing that pregame show in Hamilton before the
game against Montreal, and it kind of felt like, you know,
it kind of felt like Winnipeg was getting old then,

(40:17):
you know, and they were able to bring back everybody
for another year, minus like JaMarcus Hardrick who went to
Saskatchewan and got injured. But you know, it's impressive that
they're still doing it. Stanley Bryant in particular, I think,
is like thirty nine or something, So he's gonna be
in like Jason Peters kind of territory, you know, if
he keeps doing this and and sticks around, whether it's

(40:37):
with you know, Winnipeg or somebody else. Again, he expressed
his intent to keep playing, so you know, we'll see
you know, Winnipeg. There's some questions Toronto, there's some questions
as to who's set up better for the future. That's
also hard to say. You know again, I think we
have to wait to see some of these changes and
give it a couple of weeks or months, you know,

(40:57):
maybe see how free agency goes before you can really uh,
before you can really have a definitive answer to that.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Jason to you, we can start looking towards some of
the news. Obviously we're kind of in the middle of
the news cycle, and Rick Campbell now has been officially released.
I think we expected that. I think like remember when
Jason ile Somemer were like, oh no, frekst the guy,
and then now it's like, oh, okay, but yeah, so
Rick's moved on. It looks like he's going to Edmonton,
and BC's made some promotions that way, and then they

(41:25):
I think CFL News they just put.

Speaker 5 (41:28):
Out, you know, Vernon officially going to be traded.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
We all kind of know this stuff, but kind of
thoughts on this now anything forward looking and it could
be winning pay Toronto, but then especially kind of BC
in the West really feels like it could be pretty
open here.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
Yeah, just a touch on Toronto.

Speaker 4 (41:42):
I think that they've become and we'll talk about what
Kadeen Carrey said after their victory on Sunday, but they've
become the new Calgary in a sense. Calgary for years
they were able to, you know, have all these guys
go out the door in free agency and they would
just you know, find these guys that are nowhere and
just plug him into the lineup as rookies or second

(42:02):
year players and you know, not miss a beat.

Speaker 5 (42:04):
And Toronto's been able to do that.

Speaker 4 (42:06):
I think they lost a total of seventeen players or
something like that, something crazy like that last offseason. Two
other CFL teams I think Hamilton alone signed seven of them.
So it just shows you the amount of turnover that
team was able to overcome this year on top of
the quarterback injury and the Great Cups. So just incredibly impressive.

(42:28):
You know, it's gonna be really interesting going forward, you
know here in Hamilton. Now that ed Hervey now got
hired as the GM in Edmondson, who is going to
be the next GM here in Hamilton, A lot of
rumors speculating about maybe it's gonna be Danny McManus, who
is the assistant GM in Winnipeg. He is the last
Hamilton quarterback to bring a Great Cup to this city,

(42:49):
so it would be an interesting homecoming. And Ted Goviah,
I think is his name, is the other assistant GM
in Winnipeg that you know, maybe gets a job here
as well. So it should be interesting to see what
happens with that position. I mean BC's head coach, I
think is the big question because it looks like Edmonton's

(43:09):
head coach is gonna be Rick Campbell. It looks like
all signs are pointing towards Edmonton hiring, you know, just
because of the lenyards there, with Hugh Campbell his dad
being such a legend there, I think it makes too
much sense for them not to do that. BC's head coach,
on the other hand, I think that is a big
question mark about who it's gonna be. It could be
a number of different people. Maybe it's a promotion from within,

(43:32):
Maybe Jordan Max Simmick gets that, you know, opportunity as
a head coach, or you know, maybe they you know,
look around the league to a guy like Buck Pierce
who didn't call his best game in the Great Cup,
as we've alluded to. But you know, maybe it's one
of those guys that gets a first time opportunity because
there's not too many guys with the head coaching experience
just sitting around in the CFL.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
It is weird it just to speak on that, and
then I have the one quick thing about Tronto, Like
the Rick Campbell thing is weird to me because you know,
obviously we saw that with Jason Moss and from the Cordinata,
you know, going over to the Olwettes and kind of
you know, they what do they call that, like failing up?

Speaker 5 (44:08):
But you got promoted that. But you know, generally, if.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
You're a coach like Rick, you would take a couple
of seasons off and people kind of forget about, Okay,
what's going on? Like to me, and the people think,
you know, I know we've talked about Belichick and whatever
in the chat, but like to me, that's the damn
this thing right now is Bill Belichick went from last
year where you know, no one wanted him and kind
of saw how you know, the Patriots kind of collapsed
and he was old and kind of whatever, and then

(44:32):
you know he's doing all this media stuff now and
he's like the jolliest, funniest guy in the world. And
then you you know, we guarantee he's gonna get hired
somewhere next year. It's like that's the same guy that
didn't want to do. Like the thing to me with
Rick is just wild where we just saw, like we
just lived through how many years of this in in BC,
and now you're gonna go hot, Like why would we
expect anything different? And if you have any thoughts on

(44:53):
that of a second, the other thing I was gonna
say with Toronto is it's really a shame to me,
like and this is a really good story and and everything,
and we would dim waiting and everything they've gone through
and kind of the adversity, which part of which was
you know, self inflicted with Chad and all that.

Speaker 5 (45:08):
However you want to look at that. But I do
still feel like that kind of.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Hangs over because even in the you know that I
thought Chad was just obnoxious in the in the in
the prey kind of thing and screaming and yelling. And
I understand you're with the team and it's not like
you you know, you you didn't meet the bombers. You
weren't there you miss half the season.

Speaker 5 (45:25):
Uh. And I think.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Whether you agree with kind of how the league handled
that or not, I just think that Chad just doesn't
come across as a very likable guy online or doing any.

Speaker 5 (45:35):
Of this kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
And I think that hurts in that regard of just
like this should be very overwhelmingly positive right now for Toronto.
I don't like that, and obviously he's going to be
back next year. Andy, any thoughts on anything I've said.
I know I dropped a couple of different things there.

Speaker 7 (45:49):
Well, and just as quickly in regards to Chad Killing,
I mean, they've hitched their wagon to him. For better
or words. They seem to love him, even if the
public doesn't. But that I has to do with litigation
or public perception. They don't seem to care. So we'll
see what happens as regards to that. And also again
with some of the structural shifts, we'll see if you know,

(46:11):
someone like John Murphy stay around for that for that team,
the team president. You know, there's there were some reporting
on that I've already seen. We'll we'll see what happens
going forward. But as far as the rest of the league.
I can sense that there's going to be a dramatic
shift and a lot of teams, especially in the West.
Obviously BC's making wholesale changes Saskatchewan. Again, it kind of

(46:33):
comes down to does Trevor Harris stay around. That's really
kind of one of the big dominoes Calgary. Calgary needs
to restock the shells quickly. If Dave Dickinson wants to
stay around, I mean the clock's kind of ticking on
him right now too. And I just wonder about, you know,
what kind of changes our Hamilton is going to make.
You know, obviously another season where they didn't really meet

(46:54):
their own expectations. You know, a lot of the quarterback
movement we talked, asked that Dave Naylor about that the carousel.
I mean, it seems like quarterback musical chairs. Obviously, Uh yes,
we know that, thank you. But reading the fact about
Trevor Harris being the same age as Rida, and I've
never heard that one before. But look, I just wonder
about this musical chairs with all the quarterbacks because there's

(47:16):
so many different guys that possibly could start that aren't
going to have a starting spot when the camp opens
or when it's uh when it concludes, I should say,
And so for me, I just wonder, like where that's
all gonna go. There's there's gonna be so much movement.
I'm really excited for all of it, but what it
looks like right now is really going to look a

(47:37):
lot different when training camp starts.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Yeah, that was kind of what we uh, I mean,
Andy and I come of all week, it felt like
anyone you talk to, you know, even you know, the
Jimoens and Jamie and I and everyone is just kind
of like, yeah, that's gonna be really crazy with that.

Speaker 5 (47:51):
Yeah, she's got a Jim on that came to dinner
with all of us.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
That was fun, even though like I was loving because
I can text everyone, Hey, I got a special guest coming.

Speaker 5 (47:59):
I show Jim and everyone's like, we thought it was
gonna before hunt. I'm like, don't say that, Jim is
any there.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
You say that, You say that after the fact, you
don't say that during the back Evan any faster in
the future. And then we'll spend the last couple of
minutes you're telling funny stories and we'll get out of
here because we got a It's gonna be a good
game tonight, right we got Steelers Browns, right, Yeah, Russell Wilson,
here we go.

Speaker 6 (48:21):
Yeah, there's gonna be a lot of movement on many levels.
There's gonna be personnel, there's gonna be coaches, there's gonna
be players.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
You know.

Speaker 6 (48:29):
The BC situation I think is an interesting one to monitor.
I'll start there. You know, Jordan Max Simmick to me,
was kind of the automatic name that came to mind,
especially given he was the one who kind of brought
Nathan Rourke to power in twenty twenty two during his
outstanding season that eventually put him into the NFL with
the Jacksonville Jaguars. You know, Buck Pierce, I also think

(48:53):
is a convincing name. Like you might remember last year
when Saskatchewan was doing their coaching hires, Buck Pierce was
a finalist for that. It came down to, you know,
either him or Corey Mace, and they went with Corey
Mace obviously worked out pretty well for them. You know,
wouldn't mind, you know, I think Buck Pierce has done
enough in this league to get an opportunity again part
of the uh yeah, that dynasty term, you know, got

(49:14):
to be careful with that. But again, he's he's been there,
and and you know, he's helped Zach and he's helped
Drew Brown, He's helped Chris Traveler, He's helped a lot
of prominent names in this league, you know, and especially
I mean the plethora of receivers that Winnipeg has and
just playmakers all around. Andrew Harris who had in the backfield.
Then it was Brady Olivera. So obviously you know, he's

(49:36):
got a wealth of experience that he could bring. The
other spot I'll talk about. I mean, I think Edmonton's
pretty clear to me at this point. It's already been
touched on. But the Hamilton GM opening, I think is
an interesting one. You know, Uh, Jason already talked about.
You know, Danny McManus, Ted Gevaia. Do those guys come
together as a package deal? Currently they you know, are

(49:59):
in that situation under Kyle Walters in Winnipeg, Ted Gava
being the senior assistant GM and Danny McManus being the
just assistant GM who runs the US scouting. You know,
So do they hire one, do they hire both? If
they hire one, which one is it? Or do they
go external? I mean, I think you know, you saw
like Scott Milanovitch, right, was kind of an external hire,

(50:21):
a guy who had been in the CFL before but
was working you know, in the NFL prior. And I
think Ken Austin at one point who's now doing some
stuff at Auburn, had been in Hamilton maybe, and he
was a guy who again was an external hire at
one time, so they kind of have a history with that.
The one really interesting name that I saw that came

(50:41):
up in some places was Chris Rosetti, who I believe
is the director of pro scouting with the New York Giants.
You know, obviously the Giants might be doing some you
know restructuring in the offseason with their personnel department and
coaches and whatever. You know, we've we've yet to see that.
But he was a guy I'm pretty sure he's Canadian
and worked with the Argos when he was young at
one point in a variety of you know, personnel or

(51:04):
coaching roles. So that would be one the monitor.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
You know, hard to.

Speaker 6 (51:08):
Tell again which direction Hamilton's gonna go yet, just with
their history. But uh, again, that's just that's just like
the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more that
we could talk about. If if we have more time.
But again, a lot of it, you know, I want
to say a lot of it will take uh will
take time to figure out. But at least on the
personnel level, that's stuff that you have to get the
ball rolling on pretty quickly because there's decisions to be made,

(51:30):
guys to re sign and all that.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
So yeah, yeah, Tim and Andy Tim here, and then
we can start getting into kind of wrapping this and that.

Speaker 5 (51:38):
But yeah, like the question me, what what will be?
He ask? And I'll tell you.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
I mean, it's gonna be a sad day when BC
finally gets rid of Vernon here and I know we
obviously the writing's on the wall and all that, but like, yeah,
do we promote Jordan and it's like the Nathan Show
all I hope, I mean, I hope, I hope we'll
see I mean a lot any anything's on that and
and they we can kind of transition on, you know,
I Uh.

Speaker 4 (52:01):
One one thing we didn't touch on that I wanted
to say is that the situation in Montreal was one
to monitor. I think there were three down nations guys.
I was listening to you know, earlier this week they
were saying because they have a choice to make between
you know, Cody Fajardo and Davis Alexander. That from the
people that they've talked to, it seems like Davis Alexander

(52:24):
is the guy that they would prefer to keep. So
don't be surprised if Cody Fajardo ends up being a
free agent. And you know, with all these guys, and
Naylor was talking about this on the show being available
this offseason, somebody's gonna be left without a dance partner
at the end here, and someone's gonna have to be
a backup that we didn't expect. Maybe that's tray Ford,
maybe that's uh, you know, Pajardo. Like I said, so,

(52:47):
it's gonna be very interesting to see what happens this
offseason with the quarterback reshuffling.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Yeah, any thoughts on that, thoughts on VA and then
we'll because I know he's your boy.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
No, he's absolute right.

Speaker 7 (53:00):
I mean, just to think of the list off the
top of your head, You've got Cody Ferjardo and Davis Alexander.
I would think that Montreal is just from what I'm
kind of sensing from how Danny Machosha their GM talked
and how other people are talking it seems like that's
if they've put in that much work to develop Davis Alexander,
then they're probably gonna have to roll with him going forward,
make the difficult decision of parting ways with Cody Ferjardo.

(53:23):
So that's kind of the thought there. I agree with
Tim what Tims saying Cody maybe being traded and then
Alexander Beek signed to a multi year contract because again
they put so much space in capital in that believe
I Mitchell came up an MOPS season. Does Hamilton want
to restructure his contract or is he going to have
to go find that money elsewhere? That's another question obviously.
Chad Kelly, but again we don't know how healthy Chad

(53:46):
Kelly is going to be. Somebody else going to come
in and step in into Toronto, PJ.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
Walker and Calgary.

Speaker 7 (53:53):
Is Calgary going to trade for somebody or acquire somebody.
Obviously VA has to be traded to somebody at some point,
but somebody want to be keen on making him the starter.
Trevor Harris Nathan Worrick obviously seems to be the presumed
starter in BC. Do we assume that Zach Coloska, I
mean again, Zach Laros just based on healthwise, I know
he has to think, have some time to think, and

(54:14):
he said it's pretty much ninety nine point nine percent
chance he comes back, but you know, things can change,
and so yeah, obviously has like the Petz Dispenser hand,
but our finger, I should say, But I guess for me,
it's just like Jason was saying, it's a shame that
somebody's gonna.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
Have to be left out in here.

Speaker 7 (54:32):
Yeah, yeah, right right, but it's a shame that somebody's
gonna be left out out of the dances. Like he said,
I would think if you're asking me, yes, my personal
homersm here, it would be a damn shame if someone
like Vernon Adams ana have a starting jobber, if trey
Ford wasn't given a real chance with somebody, which again,
if Rick Campbell comes over to Edmonton, I'm just gonna

(54:54):
say it right now, I think trey Ford needs a
head for the Hills if if that's the case, because
Rick is probably going to try bring in somebody else,
and I don't know if that's really the guy that
I really want coaching trade for it. Sorry, but that's
my personal take, and so we'll see what happens going forward.
But yeah, I mean it's good that they have a
glut of quarterbacks. I'll say that because two years ago
there was complaints that there were not enough quarterbacks and

(55:15):
now all of a sudden they have plenty of them.

Speaker 5 (55:19):
Yeah. It was funny, right, wasn't it.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
An ed kind of in his introductory thing with Edmonton
and he's like, you know, we're intent and we want
to win, and we're here, and I'm like, do you
know who you're rumored to be hiring to be your head?
Like I didn't want to tweet anything because I'm like,
I don't like hate Rick Campbell demand but I'm like, okay,
that doesn't speak to the Yeah, yeah, I'm Tray four
and I get the hell out of there because there's

(55:41):
no place for that.

Speaker 5 (55:43):
Anything else we'll round out. I thought it was funny.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
It was any anyone had any feel fun stories or
anything to share here. At the end, I'm glad that
we got Andy an audience with John Hodge and JC
with the Three Dom podcast. I was happy to facilitate
that Jason had to fly back early. We went in
John Hodge very quiet to me, I did get a.

Speaker 5 (56:04):
Deans for coming handshake.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
The last night there, I was not too chatty with me.
I talked to her with that Joel guy that works
with Three Down.

Speaker 5 (56:12):
You know, we talked with jac a little bit.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
I'm glad Andy was able to talk with him. Anyone
else have any takeaways any other stuff from Vancouver or
anything else, any other observations.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
Yeah, it was cool to see, you know, just from
hanging out in the team party headquarters. Just seeing BeO,
Levi Mitchell and other people walking around. I mean that's
what is the beauty of the CFL and beauty of
Gray Cup is just stuff like that you could never
see in the NFL, where like people are just down
to earth and personal with you. You can meet anybody,
and yeah, I just love that about Great Cup week.

Speaker 5 (56:47):
Yeah, it was funny. I was went to the crack
game last night.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
My buddy was like, oh, so, I does Gray Cup
like have a big like thing around it.

Speaker 5 (56:53):
I'm like, yeah, that's like.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Eighty percent of the thing is I go into the
things around the Great Cup and then the game. Evan,
any takeaways? Are you anything you enjoyed your experiences Vancouver?

Speaker 7 (57:02):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (57:03):
Well, I do have one funny story. So you know,
we were in the FRC suite or whatever. I was
there like eleven to twelve thirty, and then I had
to go to bed because my flight, my flight back
out here, I had to connect for Houston. I didn't
get a like five thirty in the morning, and U
you know, one of the guys that I was hoping
to see was Naylor, you know, because I didn't get
to see him on the show and me and him

(57:23):
obviously talk a lot, you know, developed their relationship with him.
So I'm on my way back, you know, the next day,
right I'm in Houston on my connecting flight, and I'm
texting Naylor and I'm like, hey, man, I was in
the suite last night from whatever time to whatever time.
I was a bit late, but I didn't see it.
He goes, oh, well, that's interesting. I got there at
two forty five in the morning and was there till four.

(57:47):
But yeah, I mean, you know, we'll catch up eventually whatever.
And I said, well, that would have been great, Dave,
but I had to get up at five thirty, you
know for my eight thirty flight, you know. And then
I and then we joked and I said, well, I
guess I'm only a rookie, because whatever I thought was
late clearly is not.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
You know, but now look we had a good time.

Speaker 6 (58:05):
And again even though I was only there for what
ended up being a bit more than a day, you know,
we made the most of it, right Like that, Jason
pointed out that Team Party headquarters thing was fantastic. It
wasn't Hamilton. And then in BC, just with the setup there,
you know, at the convention Center. Again, have to give credit,
like this is a guy we've talked about plenty of

(58:25):
times and I know, Reed, you're obviously very fond of,
but like Amar Doman, man, it's incredible to see his
buy into this league and you can tell he really cares.
And you know, the that zip line stuff going on there, man,
I mean that was all just crazy. Like I I
didn't anticipate that. I had no idea that was even
going on until I had seen some tweets a couple
of days before I got there, right when they were

(58:46):
setting it up for the whole week. You know, just
an incredible event. Really, Like I thought Hamilton was great,
but I remember, you know, going to that convention Center
in BC and thinking there's just so much room here.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
You know, there's so much going on.

Speaker 6 (58:58):
As Jason pointed out too, you know a lot of
players walking around just very casual. You can strike up
a conversation with anybody. And that's the great part about,
you know, what this league offers. Compared to say, you know,
the NFL or maybe even college football to a degree,
you just don't really ever get that experience, you know,
And I know, I had a great time talking to people.

(59:19):
It's just really easy when you don't have to, you know,
necessarily coordinate external meetups and everybody's kind of already in
one place. It's like just one spot where everything's happening,
and yeah, good time all round.

Speaker 5 (59:31):
Yeah, it was funny.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
I co signed that in Yeah, Andy, I think it's
computer Daddy's back. I was just I was just resizing
stuff on my end, and I'm like, oh, did I
like I hope I didn't kick anyone out or did
I get dropped off or whatever. But it's cool seeing
everyone around, and like Evan said, it's in an approachable
way that Paul and I remember when we did Wrestle
Mandy eight years ago, and like you might run into

(59:53):
wrestlers who do whatever, but it's hey, you want a
photo it's fifty bucks or you know, you want a signature, whatever,
Hey buy my shirt. Like there's a lot of that
kind of thing where everybody there, Like you could have
walked into anyone at any time and said, hey, can
let me get a photo or a handshake or you know,
just stay congrats or whatever.

Speaker 5 (01:00:09):
Really kind of approachable that way.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Yeah, Tim Light the drone show we did that we
were in the wrong Evan was late getting in because
his flight. He wasn't late, he just is fighting it
in Andy and I and Dorothy went out to see
that we were on the wrong side of the pier,
and so we kind of realized it was you know, there.

Speaker 5 (01:00:25):
Was no like music.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
It would have helped without the announcements or anything with that.
But I will just say my thing and I'll toss
to you two guys, will get out of here for
Thursday night football. Like, I just thought the West Coast
aspect of it made it so nice. I thought the
area worked down there great, having the team headquarters, having
the media row and all that, having the water there,
I know, the zipline and all that, but you didn't

(01:00:46):
even necessarily have that, but everything and then just just
the game and just not having it be two degrees
Jason and I understand that.

Speaker 5 (01:00:54):
Like, okay, in the Canadian League and we need to
play it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
But like the fact that you could just sit and
watch the game and I have to worry about like
reizing to death win a really long you know. I'm
not saying it's gotta be an every year thing, but
like every two to three years. I just it gives
people you can bring out your kids and stuff you
don't have to worry about. You know, we got to
put eighteen layers on them, Like it just made the
game watching so much more enjoyable. They're like, I could
just sit there in jeans in the sweatshirt and watch

(01:01:17):
the game.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
Yeah, I agree. Like even as a Canadian, don't I
don't love the cold. I mean, I'm not looking forward
to how cold it's gonna be next year in Winnipeg,
especially so I will say the previous two Gray Cups
and Hamilton are two of the last three years in Hamilton,
it wasn't that cold, especially the one that was twenty
twenty one, which was in December, the latest Gray Cup

(01:01:40):
ever played. I thought it was, you know, ridiculously warm
for December. So hopefully it's similar to that in Winnipeg.

Speaker 5 (01:01:48):
Tell my wife that not anything else, we'll get.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Out of here.

Speaker 7 (01:01:55):
I just had an Thralley experience from front to back.
I know, I'm the rookie here, my first time being there,
first time being in Vancouver. I loved it from every aspect,
every angle. I loved going to outside with all the
different bands playing. I didn't ride any of the zip lines,
but I loved just seeing how how fun it was.
People were just so into it. The convention centers were great,

(01:02:18):
a lot of things to do, especially for the kids,
and then the team party HQ's I will say, and
this is an interesting point that's been brought up by
a couple of different podcasts. Maybe the space was too big,
but you know what, I'd rather be too big than
too small.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Just my personal standpoint, because you can put in as
much as you want.

Speaker 7 (01:02:34):
Go bake or go home. And they certainly did. The
presentation with a great cup. I thought the national anthem
was beautiful. I loved the halftime performance. I'm not a
Jonas Brothers fan, but I think the presentation was great.
The lighting, the paneling up on the upper rafters at
BC plays was great.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
You know the biggest thing.

Speaker 7 (01:02:53):
That my biggest takeaway, especially with all the people that
we talked to and the things about how you could
just see coaches, you could see owners. I mean, mar
Doman was just walking around, you know, on the ground
floor before the Great cop talking to people. I mean
from our standpoint, just to understand as America as like Americans,
there's such a velvet rope aspect, especially in sports, where

(01:03:15):
it's like, hey, you know, don't talk to this person,
like oh, you know, to leave them alone, Like we
can't have you talk to No, that was not the
sense here.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Everybody could talk.

Speaker 7 (01:03:22):
To anybody at any point about anything, and no one
was really being harassed. I really love that a lot. Obviously,
I know you are not the biggest fan, and maybe
I'm not the biggest fan of them either, read but
seeing Rick Campbell just walking around in the convention center
was really cool.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
I mean, I had coaches just you know, hanging out
like that.

Speaker 7 (01:03:41):
Part of it is so cool and I really appreciate that.
I just appreciated all the really just want to shout
out all the media personnel who were kind to me,
even though they had never met me personally before, for
them to just be like, hey, yeah, you're part of
the troop, like this is this is through space, like
no hazing, nothing, not saying they would, but like you know,

(01:04:01):
sometimes it'd be a little rough in the in the business.
And so I appreciate it, and I really appreciate being
part of that process. And I absolutely want to go
back to Vancouver. I have to say, going to the
Great Cup is like it's like a drug, you know,
it really is, And I get why people are so
into it, why it's so traditional, and if anything else,

(01:04:22):
I just wish more people could experience it because it's
really that great.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Yeah, Andy, I was really worried the first year we win,
you know, like would there be some sort of hazy
either gate.

Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
Keeping upon and I don't a lot with that online No, I.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Mean everyone couldn't be nice for both meetiing fans anything else.
Evan Jason will get out of here, all right. Well,
thanks to everyone for watching like and subscribe. We will,
like I said, probably go dark here. I know we're
going to have the UFL schedule coming out look for
you know, Andy and I might try to figure out
a stream or something with that when that comes. It's
been you know many weeks coming, but we'll see. And then,

(01:04:57):
like I said, once we start getting some UFL content,
I get some CFO interviews on here, it's not worth
the squeeze to get, you know, try to track down
and whatever to get fifteen minutes and just have it
die on here with the algorithm.

Speaker 5 (01:05:08):
So we'll start packaging up some of that stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
We'll be quiet for a little bit, but you know,
we post everything on here, turn on the bells and notifications,
subscribe everything else.

Speaker 5 (01:05:16):
Jason, thanks for coming.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
It was great hanging out with you and Alex and
Evan making the time and fighting through the flights and
everything and Andy as always, and I appreciate you know, everyone,
all the media, everyone else. Couldn't have gone better. We
will see you guys next time.

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