CFL 2024 Playoffs Division Finals Preview!!!

CFL 2024 Playoffs Division Finals preview show!

We went LIVE to preview the CFL 2024 playoffs finals on Wednesday, November 6th at 4pm PT / 7pm ET.

Join Hussey's Huddle, "The Professor" Andrew Murray, and Evan Willsmore we recap the CFL 2024 division semi-finals and look ahead toward the CFL division finals and the 111th Grey Cup in Vancouver, BC.

CFL 2024 Postseason: 
Sat, Nov. 9 at 3:00 p.m. — East Final 
(Saskatchewan Roughriders at Winnipeg Blue Bombers)

Sat, Nov. 9 at 6:30 p.m. — West Final
(Toronto Argonauts at Montreal Alouettes)

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Well here we are back here, happy Wednesday, getting you
ready for the CFL Division Finals this weekend. The Marcast
here live, big announcements here coming in a second.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Like it.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Subscribe, We'll be here live from the Great Cup next weekend.
I'll give you all the details just in the living
room today. Couldn't marry together, everything set up. Spend busy
times here at America, busy times with work and everything else.
But we are here a love. We have Jason back
in the fold. We have Evan here, and then we
have the professor Andrew Murray who just got home. We

(01:07):
will be your rag Take group here next weekend at
the Great Cup. But first off, Jason, how are you?
We did last week with Anthony Miller talk semi division finals.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Now we're here for the finals. How are you doing?

Speaker 4 (01:18):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:19):
I'm doing good.

Speaker 5 (01:20):
Read you know, exciting time a year and I'm excited
to be here in the Great Cups coming up.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Evan, it's been a couple of weeks there, it's been
a I don't even know a long time.

Speaker 6 (01:29):
Here.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
We got Evan back on talking CFL. We were talking
pre you know, pre coming on here.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
We're all locked back in.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Jason, I said, last week. You know, it's been a
long season.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
We're here to go. We're going to be in Vancouver
next weekend. How are you, Evan?

Speaker 6 (01:42):
Yeah, man, I'm doing well. Really excited for Great Cup,
you know, really excited for the games this weekend. There's
only you know, three games left, but it still feels
like we have so much, you know, to get through
an experience. But Vancouver should be great. I'm looking forward
to that. I was just out there like three weeks ago,
so won't I won't feel too different for me, But yeah, man,
looking forward to the show.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, and so we'll the professor Andrew Murray is going
to be here as well. He's getting parts coming home
from work so he's working through his schooling, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
And his professor.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
And what's this, Mike Mitchell textan on here, Mike Mitchell
texting things in the group chat.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Here's the deal. Like it. Subscribe.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Like I said, we will be at the lions Den
Live next Saturday, So this will be the last show
you hear from us until next Saturday. We'll be there
the sixteenth. Our credentials came in from the league. Appreciate that.
And we'll get all our Great Cup festival and all
of that figured out as well.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
But we'll be at the game. Dorothy. I always joke.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
We went over to her parents' house last week. Again
I said, you know, Dorothy is a credential member of
the CFL media here, so that you know, you got
to have that respect.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
But we will be there. Evan will be there.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Andy, you'll be there live in person, Jason will be there,
and then we will have a bunch of guests, you know,
far Haun and Naylor, they'll do their run in and
I'm sure the Winnipeg Crow be there.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Saskatchewan.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
I know Derek Taylor was c seed on some stuff
that I was on as well as I want to
get either in person or otherwise, like Rod Peterson been
talking with him. Maybe a Saskatchewan makes it in. I
still have a gift for Rod Peterson here, so that
would be nice to see him in person. But should
be a star state of affairs. So like I said,
like a subscribe, but make sure you're a part of
all that should be excited to get us up to

(03:16):
when we have four thousand subscribers now trying to get
to give you a couple free jerseys here at courtesy
of world retros. We will recap a little bit the
semi finals here today, the division semifinals, will look ahead
some news and notes. I want to talk through jc's article, like, hey,
did you know the BC Lions are going to be
over the salary cap. We will talk through all of that, Evan,

(03:36):
just because we haven't heard from you as much here.
Big games this weekend, that kind of as expected with
BC following the Winnipey or excuse me to Saskatchewan troynt
to taken care of business, any major thoughts of the
weekend or anything else before we kind of do any
deep dive stuff.

Speaker 6 (03:52):
Yeah, you know, those would have been the teams I picked.
I mean, you know, I could go over the East
and West summi final and depth. I'll wait, maybe you
know U a little bit later in the show or whatever,
But yeah, I mean it was relatively I think it
went just about as I expected. You know, both both
home teams taking the win, and you know, I mean
both teams I think deserved it.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
So yeah, yeah, Jason, I'm gonna pull up my tweets
here because I was on a little bit of a
rank here, you know, our team, like thank God for
the Commanders, here really suffering through cracking or I think
a five game skid right now, BC missing that, Mariners
obviously had to live through Otani and all of that
getting that World Series. So really, my life's kind of
shambos right now. Jason, what did you make of everything?

(04:34):
Because like, yeah, as expected, BC didn't have enough kind
of frustrating there, So what did you make?

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well?

Speaker 5 (04:41):
Like Evan, I expected these two teams to win, obviously,
but I thought they were both pretty exciting games. I think,
especially that first half of that audible Toronto game. We'll
get to it, like Evan was saying, but you know,
it was one of the most entertaining halfs of football
that I think I've ever seen in the CFL in
the last several years. So I think, you know, it

(05:01):
was a really entertaining weekend. I that the quarterbacks in
general played pretty well, and I think that is always
a good thing for the CFL. And I think, you know,
ultimately the four best teams I think in the CFL
have advanced to this this weekend.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
And here I'm hearing Glass break.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Back, God Back God, that's the professor for his music,
and and Andy, how the heck are you? Are you
your professor and right now, how's everything going on?

Speaker 7 (05:30):
Uh, pre professoring, I'm getting ready to pre professor and
then actually professor.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
But I'm all right, good to see you fellas.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, just spread the news here be live next weekend.
Great cup Andy, what are you excited for? And that
I want to get your thoughts on the Lions that
kind of downfall here, but thoughts here overall as we
approach the division finals here this weekend.

Speaker 7 (05:50):
I think these are matchups that, just to what Jason
was just saying, I think these are the best teams
in the CFL that are left in the field. I
think for some people it might be annoying. It's a
little bit of the same. As far as Winnipeg, we're
in the not I wouldn't say the frozen tundrick because
actually the weather report looks actually pretty favorable this weekend,
which we'll get into. But still it's in Winnipeg again.

(06:12):
It's kind of like becoming that New York New England
Patriots feel again, where it's like, oh, we're back here
for the AFC title game, while we're back here for
the West Final again, but deservedly so, and again Saskatchewan
more than deserving to be there in Montreal. I think
this is extremely exciting for them. Obviously they've already want
to break up. Now you have that absolutely raucous crowd

(06:32):
in personal malson stadium for a home playoff game. I
have to double check when the last time they hosted
an Eastern Final. Maybe Jason knows that off top of
his head, but I can't quite remember the last time
they did. But still regardless, I'm really excited to just
hear how boisterous and absolutely agonizingly loud it's going to
be on my TV screen on this weekend.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, you know, like you said, is the four best teams.
You know, I've been having a lot of conversations lately
with kind of Dorothy Battle, this kind of you know,
ramping up.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Okay, what what's happening here?

Speaker 1 (07:02):
We're going up to Vancouver and all that, and yet
like you look here in the the playoff list, you
know where it's it's six to nine make the playoffs
in the CFL. Like I don't view that as like, Okay,
we are a playoff team.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
That's the success.

Speaker 6 (07:15):
Right.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Obviously we talked with Calgary last year coming in and
you eking in and had missed the playoffs and how
many years and they get bounced?

Speaker 3 (07:23):
Jason Lions was this.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
I do not view this as success of any hand
of them just making the playoffs and getting bounced.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
You view the BC Lions season as a success.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 5 (07:35):
I think anytime you're in a Great Cup hosting year,
the expectation, fair or not in the CFL, is to
make the Great Cup or at least yeah, like I said,
make the Great Cup.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Let alone win it.

Speaker 5 (07:46):
So I think, you know, we went through this last
year in Hamilton, a very disappointing year. We made the
playoffs similar to BC, but we lost in the opening
round the division semi finals. So it's very disappointing for
the BC Lions. I think they really were shown to
be frauds. Really just they talked a lot about how
this team was different in style from the previous couple

(08:09):
of years and how they were more of a physical team.
We went out, we got Williams stand back, we got
you know, some guys that are better at defending the run,
but ultimately those are the things that cost them in
this game. And ultimately they couldn't match the physicality of
the Rough Riders. And yeah, it was a disappointing season
for the Lions.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, I had a couple and I wanted to talk
through a little bit of Rick Campbell's kind of post
stuff on here.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
Evan, do you have anything else to add to this,
and then we'll circle back.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
I got a couple of tweets and one that pull
they just kind of spurs my memory. Anything from you, Evan,
just abod the Lions in general, and then we can
kind of deep doute the games here.

Speaker 5 (08:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (08:41):
I mean, you know, look, like Jason said, it's obviously
a disappointing season, you know, and with what a Mark
Doman has done, you know, bringing fifty cent in there
for the opener, you know, hosting the Great Cup this year.
You know, a whole list of things, you know that
they did to kind of make this, you know, the
magical season, you know, and they regressed right the first
the first two years where BC you know, was in

(09:03):
that West Final against Winnipeg, it was well, you know,
disappointing end of the season, but there's a lot of
positive takeaways and this year, you know, it felt like
there was just there was a lot going on there, right,
I mean, you bring in Nathan Rourke midseason, that's a
whole different thing. Not really going to get into that
because I think that's gonna take too much time, you know,
But there was a lot going on, and ultimately it

(09:24):
didn't work out. So I think there's a lot of
you know, maybe difficult decisions that will have to be
made there in the off season. We'll see what happens.
You know, I'm not saying that anybody's going anywhere, but
I definitely think, you know, Amar Doman has some things
to consider, you know. But yeah, I mean, ultimately it's
it's a disappointing season for them. And I remember, you know,

(09:44):
I kind of bought into the hype, you know, before
the season started that you know, this was gonna be
the year where it all you know, came together and
your host and the Gray Cup and they were finally
going to get past Winnipeg and all the things that
you know had kind of been said for two years
or whatever up to that point. It didn't happen. So,
you know, it's unfortunate, but you know, I'm hopeful that
they'll be able to rebound. And again, you know, they've

(10:05):
committed to Nathan wark Now as their quarterback, so that's
your starting point. For whatever happens moving forward.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Andy, I kind of look at two years ago when
we went up to Regina and there was kind of
a lot of lament of the rough Rider fans and
they weren't in it and they didn't show up and
how desploytment. But this feels wildly different because I don't
think Saskatchewan was necessarily a great team at that point.
I think they were fine, kind of trying to figure
their way where BC it feels like, you know, they
really went It's like the New York Jets. Here, we

(10:31):
went all in on everything. We got everybody, and we're
trading for this and we're signing this and we're doing that.
So it feels am I right and feeling like this
is even more kind of embarrassing that that. I do
think that's the right word.

Speaker 7 (10:43):
I mean, it was style and hype over substance, and
the substance was a nine to nine season. In fact,
to Jason's point, I think he made on your podcast
about a month or two ago about the curse of
Rick Campbell. I mean, he's what it goes nine to
nine usually does. He's eighty two ninety two and two
in his career. Yes, He's bought himself a lot of

(11:05):
currency as far as the head coach, as far as
his finishes. He's won a great Cup, he's been to another,
he did a lot in Autowahich. He seems like an
outstanding success in Audoware considering what it's been like there recently.
But the fact of the matter is, I mean this
is about a step below a colossal failure. I mean,
they absolutely had all of these pieces that they brought in.
You bring in Christian Covington, you bring in Matthew Betts,

(11:28):
you bring in Nathan Rourke, the Godsend, and what you
have the show for it other than you don't even
get to host a playoff game. I mean, that's really
the biggest thing to me is the fact that they
didn't even get to host a game in the playoffs,
which they've done in.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
The last two years.

Speaker 7 (11:41):
I mean, if you travel for the Western Final, fine,
but not even being able to host in the semi final,
I think to me was really kind of the marker
of just how far this had fallen off. And for me,
I mean I think there was just so many mismanaged steps.
The roster construction, for one. The thing that really gets
me about the team is the lack of physicality, especially

(12:02):
on the offensive defensive lines.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
I mean, their offensive line just.

Speaker 7 (12:04):
Got beat every single week, no matter if Va was
in there or whether Rourke was in there. I mean,
they were just getting pounded. When the pass rush came
in kind of pinned their ears back. Their defensive line
just could not stop the run, which I know you've
been on and on about read. I mean, Ajo let
look like he was revived, and even if they'd moved on,
they would have had the same problem against Brady Olvera again.

(12:27):
So for me, it just it was a roster construction standpoint,
But it was also just a mismanagement of you could
stay possibly behind the scenes personalities. We I don't know
if we're gonna get more details.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
Of what happened.

Speaker 7 (12:39):
It'll be really interesting to see what Va says when
he leaves BC.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
I'm very curious to talk to.

Speaker 7 (12:44):
See what he says once he leaves, and if people
get the chance to ask him. But yeah, I mean
it just as I said in the shat a few
days ago, I mean, it just felt like such a
wet fart of a season, and you promised the sun
and the stars and this is what happens.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, they had so they had the post era I guess,
like the season rap whatever. What was this on November fourth,
a couple of days ago. And I mean I really
thought that this kind of exemplified kind of everything we've
talked about with BC this year. And they had the quotes,
you know, if we had Nathan and Ban here and
the Neil and Rick and Rick's quote was, you know,
talking about being able to host it. You know, obviously
we're not here and able to not able to host

(13:21):
a break up you guys, that's too bad.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
But we'll have to get over it.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Like if just if nothing else of that, Like that's
too bad. We got to get over it. Like how
many years here is it? You know, we're set up
for whatever, and like, well, that's too bad. We have
to get over it.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
Like that's all you.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Have to say to your fans, like Andy said, to
not even host the Semis, to not even get one
playoff game in this Now you're trying to you know,
I'm getting the emails from BC and obviously we're going
to be part of the lions down there doing the show,
Like hey, there's still going to be a lot of
fun stuff. Here, Hey, still show up, still show up,
Like it's hard, you know, where you're still trying to
revitalize and build that fan base. I know we've seen

(13:58):
a big resurgence with the mar but that's not something
that you can take for granted.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
I laughed when whoever Andy we was ever like, yeah,
we brought.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
In fifty sound, I'm like, man, that seems like a
fever dream ago, Like, oh yeah, I remember.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
That at the beginning of the season when we had
fifty cent.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
But yeah, even from a game standpoint, you know, I'm
sitting there and I'm watching it, and Jason knows and
anyone that's been on the show this summer, like I've
done my best to kind of recap everything for me,
you know, the day of so Jason and I can
kind of do these shows because because I've been traveling
a lot with work, and I'm turning on the game
and I watched the start to finish both games.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
I was I told Dorothy, I said, like, I got it.
We gotta work now, we gotta be serious. I gotta
get in on this.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
And I'm like, oh yeah, aj let like huh, And
then you know, really hasn't been a major focal point
right the last five six weeks. It feels like a
lot of the season where he was kind of like,
you know, thor Hammer coming in and then yeah, he
was the biggest star of the day. They couldn't do anything.
It looked like he was the greatest player on the field.
And Andy's point, even if you get through a j
you got Brady next week, So it's not even like,

(14:57):
oh pooh, you know, we kind.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Of figure that out here.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
You look at even the Commanders right now trading for
Marshawn Lattimore, like, hey, god forbid, Like we understand what
our weaknesses are and we try to like, you know, hey,
let's get some players and fix that. The fact that
Neil and Rick and all of them have had the
same problems with the team for the last three or
four years and seemingly have had nothing to do to
kind of fix that is just mind boggling to me.
Jason thoughts on the game, we can let's talk BC

(15:23):
and then we can kind of reverse Int're already on them.
The thoughts on the game. My tweet was that you
can't spell embarrassment without VC allions. That was my tweet
during the game. If you want to know it if
you want to know where I'm at, Jason, what did
you think?

Speaker 5 (15:35):
Well, I mean, the game was tied at halftime, so
it definitely was not, you know, a blowout by any means.
But I think that you know, in the second half,
like I said, it really was the physicality of the
game that the rough Riders, you know, committed to running
the ball throughout the game, whereas the Lions did not.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
They could not establish the run.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
I think, standback seven carries for twenty seven yards, that's
just not going to cut it and providing balance for offense,
and then there's too much pressure on that really weak
BC offensive line in pass protection and ultimately you'll see
that affect their ability to win that game. So, you know,
it was very disappointing to see from the Lions. I mean,
I don't think Nathan Rourke would have done much better

(16:16):
if he was in there. I think it was just
the style of the team and where they've decided to prioritize,
you know, spending money on this roster. That has been
the continuous problem.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
For this team over the years.

Speaker 5 (16:28):
But you know, in terms of Saskatchewan, I think that
you know, Trevor Harris is still playing incredibly well. I
think that you know, the running game coming alive a
j O Lett, even though it was against your BC Lions, Reid,
I think, you know, getting him going down the stretch,
maybe he has his best three games of the season
on a way to a great Cup. Who knows, but
I think that is huge to have balance for that offense.

(16:50):
And they also have Rykwell Armstead, who was a big
part of the Ottawa Redblacks rushing game earlier this season
before his release due to some per small fouls that
he was taking there. So they decided to dress two
American running backs for this game, which is pretty rare
in the CFL, and you know, it really worked for them,
So it should be interesting to see how they deploy

(17:11):
that against Winnipeg. I think having balance coming into that game,
we'll talk about it, but it's going to be huge
for the Riders. And yeah, ultimately, I think it just
boils down to the physicality and BC was not prepared
to match what Saskatchewan was throwing at him.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
But like we knew that anyway, Yeah, why wouldn't you
deuvel up on that?

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Like, you know, BC can't do anything to stop that
at all and to your point, you know, Vernon or Nathan.
On one of my tweets, someone commented Nathan. I said,
Nathan would be in the locker room crying, like I
don't even want to hear anything that they would have
been any different with him being in there, Like Vernon,
you know, play this ass off. I don't think he's
to blame for that. I you know, my thoughts on

(17:48):
Nathan and kind of how he's held everything has been
long documented at this point, and kind of them acting
like he's this untouchable golden boy that we should all, like,
you know, kiss the feet of I just don't think
that that's how like athlete culture work. And I understand
Canada is different and the media markets all that, but
none of that would fly out at the border here.
Evan thoughts on the game because, as Jason said, like

(18:09):
you kind of knew what Saskatchewan needed to do game
plan coming in, they did that. I think VC's weaknesses
our defense are very well known and well documented. What
did you make of Saskatchewan here? And I'm full on
I tweeted out and that was probably the biggest one.
I tweet I had cfl here and like I'm all
in Saskatchewan right now.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
Like I'm all in. This is a.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Pro Rioters account here for at least until November eighteenth.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
So Evan, what'd you make of the game?

Speaker 6 (18:34):
Yeah, you know, listen, I'll start by saying, I didn't
think BC played terribly. You know, it just wasn't it
wasn't very exciting, But I don't think it was, you know,
an absolute disaster for him. What I will say, you know,
the main issue that I noticed in that game was
BC couldn't convert on second down I think it was
like two thirds to one third or something like that.
It just felt like Saskatchewan to Jason's point, you know,

(18:55):
they kind of put together these long, sustained drives and
we're just able to run the ball, you know, two clocks,
score points and move on.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
You know.

Speaker 6 (19:03):
So again, not exactly the most exciting form of football, though.
Trevor Harris, you know, did hit a couple of passes
and exposed What I would say is, you know, one
of Beastie's greatest weaknesses probably in their secondary Trevor Harris
has played some phenomenal football this year, by the way,
I know there were some concerns, you know about him
coming into this this year, just with his injury and
his age, but he's played great when he's help I know.

(19:27):
I you know, Shane Patterson came in for a bit,
you know, to help out when Trevor was down, but
you know he's backing up and running and they're having
a good time, you know, on offense for BC. I
think it would have been a lot better if Keon
Hatcher and Alex Hollins got involved. You know, they were
pretty much non factors in this game, you know, and

(19:47):
those are guys who you're paying a lot of money,
you know, to make plays. And I understand, look it
was a bit of a slower night and whatever, you know,
but I was just hoping, you know, maybe they could
do a bit more. You know. The wind was all
obviously a factor.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
You know.

Speaker 6 (20:01):
Seawan White, who's been automatic on field goals, you know,
missed a couple of kicks. Although you have to take
into account that Sean White plays in a dome for
most of the year, you know, so when you get
into those weather conditions, it might be a bit harder,
you know, to kick. And I you know, look, I
think Sean White is a great player, outstanding kicker. You know,
one of the best in this league. He's been doing

(20:21):
it forever. And I don't think, you know, even if
he had made those kicks that it really would have changed,
you know, much of the game. I felt like from
early on, kind of in the first quarter, that Saskatchewan
was really set in the tone. I know BC had
that quick score early, but from there on out, it
just you know, it was ground and pounds Saskatchewan is
what it felt like to me. So what else do

(20:42):
I have here? Uh, you know, just Saskatchewan converting on
second down when they needed to, you know, and I
feel like the real turning point in that game. The
last thing I really say about this is, uh, Marcus
Sales getting that interception off Ernon Adams. I felt like
that was a pretty notable moment where I don't want
to say it was a momentum shift, because I felt

(21:03):
like Saskatchewan had a lot of momentum already at that point.
You're playing at home, but you know, Marcus Sales was
a guy that BC let go, you know, because they
thought he was too old, and you know, he became expendable,
and you know, there he is in a big moment,
you know, playing against this former team coming up big,
and you know, I think that's one of those things
that you know, if you're BC that maybe I don't

(21:24):
know how you think about that, just because again, you know,
in that game in particular, I felt like the secondary
you know, maybe didn't do enough, and if you had
a guy like Marcus Sales, right, it might have made things,
might have made things a bit easier. So I don't know,
those are all things I took away from that game,
you know, but I again I expected Saskatchewan the win,
and they did.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah, and it was right.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
BC scored first, right led Like I never sat there
and felt like, oh, this is this is momentum in
this way, right, they missed the field goal or missing
itch your point, and then the you know, the other
the other score they had, you know, were Vernon did
kind of the quick kick and then they were able
to pin him and then they only.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Had to you know, drive like twenty five yard whatever.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
That was like, you know, it was kind of like
a flukey like I didn't even take that as like
he well you basically had to, you know, it didn't
feel like you drove the length in the field there.
It kind of felt like you pinned them deep and
they were able to use the field position, which, okay,
the seal felt like all about field, but you know,
it just felt like I would like to see this
team decent sustainable drives.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Here Andy thoughts on the game itself.

Speaker 7 (22:24):
Yeah, Actually, to piggyback a little bit off of what
Evan was saying, you mentioned Keon Hatcher. I actually did
think they were trying to get him involved. He had
eight targets and only two catches, and I distinctly remember
a couple of plays where like he either ran kind
of an incorrect post route I believe was one of them,
and then he had a drop in another instance. There
was also another one where Vernon I think kind of

(22:44):
overthrew him. So like they were trying to get him involved,
but the chemistry just wasn't there.

Speaker 4 (22:49):
Another guy that just absolutely fell off the map.

Speaker 7 (22:51):
For BC in the second half of the season was
Alexander Hollins. I mean, he really just he was on
fire the first two months. I know Jason could attest
to that in that game against Hamilton when he just
went off in the first quarter, but we haven't really
seen that from him since he kind of faded away
justin mckinnis was spectacular the entire season. He obviously, you

(23:11):
know all Star mentioned he was fantastic. But I just
kind of want to switch back over to the sketch
one for a minute here, because I really I think
there needs to be more said about Corey Mace's job.
That he's done with this team, and for a couple
of reasons, one love to see that Trevor Harris kind
of got to finish the season.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
I sat here with you.

Speaker 7 (23:33):
Months ago and boldly predicted that he would lead the
league in passing, which the Alouettes f like decks. Guys
looked at me like I was nuts, And to be fair,
his injury concerns definitely came back up. He got hurt
during the season and it kind of hampered their offense.
But the biggest thing to me is just how Corey
Mace was able to kind of overturn the culture really,

(23:55):
and it wasn't easy. There were there was that span
of weeks where they just kept in close games and
they were just so close, and the margins were so
razed within and they kept dropping those games in like
August and September, and then they had that infamous report
where they like called off practice because Mace was just
upset of the team and just said, I've had it
with you guys. I think he really kind of got

(24:16):
them all roped together and really got them playing outstanding
football down the stretch. And it showed up here. I mean,
like all of you been saying, they just were more physical.
They showed up on the prairies. You know, the wind
was just gusting through. Also a fantastic strategy for them
to play with the wind as opposed to into the wind,
especially in the fourth quarter. They they planned that out
very well. So I had to give it to the saskatch

(24:38):
One too. I think this is an immense turnaround, especially
considering how they've ended the last two seasons. And Corey
Mace absolutely, for me, for my money, earns the Coach
of the Year or not. I know, you know, those
ballots have been turned in and everything, but that for me,
I think really it stands out just what he's.

Speaker 4 (24:54):
Done with this culture. So well.

Speaker 7 (24:55):
Yeah, yes, part of it is BC's failure. I also
think sasketch One was just able to kind of turning
around this year.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah yeah, like so.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
You mean when Corey Mace came out as a leader
of men and yelled and motivated their.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
Team as opposed to being like, Wow, it's too bad.
We got to get over it.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Like I am, like I am a fan of I
like hard nos, I like mean coaches.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
I know.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
The new thing nowadays is the you know, the cool vibe,
and I think dan Quinn with the Commanders is kind
of the balance of that of culture building but kind
of being the cool guy.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
You know.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
I don't think you need to be Bill Belichick kind
of you know, screaming or whatever people. But I do
think that the dichotomy there of Britt Campbell being like
that's you know, we did our best, Like I think
that there there's a clear difference of that.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Jason, any comments on any of this stuff.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
I want to just touch on this Lion step before
and we do the other stuff and if anyone else
has but anything else on this on the game SASCAR
of the Lions.

Speaker 5 (25:53):
Yeah, Corey Mace has done a fabulous job this year.
It's really been remarkable and it's nothing too crazy. I
think he's just really worked on the fundamentals of this team.
They stopped the run. I believe they had the number
one rush defense in the league this year. You know,
they you know, got their veteran quarterback back and he
was able to play you know, most of the season.

(26:13):
I mean unfortunately not all of the season like Andy
was alluding to, but I think, you know, and they
they brought an Ajoelette who was not you know, a
big difference maker in the regular season. But I'm going
with those all in moves. I think has really you know,
given some positive momentum to the franchise.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
And just you know, Corey Mace.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
I think another thing is that he's done a really
good job with the defense in particular, you know, so
many takeaways this season, and that played a huge role.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
Again.

Speaker 5 (26:40):
You know, Marcus Sales interception in this game, and I
believe burn downs through three interceptions in this game. So
they led the league in turnover differential this year. So
that's always a key stat to league the league in
and I think, you know, if they want to beat Winnipeg,
that's one thing they'll probably have to do in that game.

Speaker 7 (27:00):
To Jason's point, real quick, yeah, they have like a
turnover our differential plus twenty eight, which is nuts.

Speaker 4 (27:05):
That is absolutely outstanding.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Stistic.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
I just wanted to allude to what you were saying.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Evan, any other comments and I want to talk this
just real quick BC looking in the next season here,
but any other comments on this step?

Speaker 6 (27:18):
Yeah, I mean, look, Saskatchewan's got a great culture. You know,
they're the one team right now. They're kind of the
odd man out in the sense or I should not
odd man out, but they're kind of unique in the
sense that out of the four remaining teams, they're the
only one who wasn't in this position last year. It's
been three years since they went to the West Final,
you know, against Winnipeg, and Winnipeg went on to win
the whole thing against Hamilton again. You know. But it's

(27:40):
a fun team, Like, it's a really fun team. And
I think, you know, their defense, it's good. I still
don't know if it gets enough credit. I think Roland
Milligan brought a lot of attention to that team with
what he's done this year, you know, but they have
playmakers on defense all over that place. You know. Shout
out to Jordan Lennon, who's a defensive assistant over there.
I talk to him every week, you know, we talk
about guys and whatever, and I'm like, you know, what

(28:01):
do you think of this guy? You know, and they
seem to have a really good operation again in terms
of culture getting guys to buy in, and I think
that goes a long way again. We'll get into uh,
you know, the preview for Winnipeg Saskatchewan later, but you know,
I'll bring up that culture thing again because it might
be important, you know for a game. Uh this big
coming up.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
I want to get just everyone's thoughts real quick on this.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
We have the article with three down that JC had
talked about your BC going over the the salary cap
this season, which I replied in the group chat like yeah, no,
s Sherlock, like obviously we went over that. But I
was watching far Hauns you know, postgame and obviously he'll
be part of the Great Cup Show next week. But
talking about like well, you know, obviously they're gonna have

(28:46):
to like rework Nathan salary and the marketing, I'm like.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
What are we like really like we're already talking about
like this is already in mistake.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
And this is already like curious this kind of andy
will start with you just your thoughts, like I know
it already feels like we kind of got cold feet
on this or like well now we're gonna.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Have to go.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
We don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
If I don't know, this seems kind of like a mess.
I want to get your thoughts because ye've been on
here in the well.

Speaker 7 (29:10):
Yeah, the mythical marketing cap is always like one of
the fascinating parables that I think I think about in
terms of how it's used at the CFL, which is
not really used to like an extreme degree. Although I
remember one point, I think months ago, I was listening
I actually happened to listen to the three Dowunation podcasts, and.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
I know you're in that.

Speaker 4 (29:28):
I know, I know, I know, I know I.

Speaker 7 (29:30):
Obviously, but John Hodd was saying some sort of like
hypothetical like well, what if they paid like Lamar Jackson
forty million dollars off the marketing cap, Like, well, that
would never happen, but you know, like kind of I
always wonder about like how that works.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
It's kind of like the same thing people in the NFL.

Speaker 7 (29:45):
I'm not sure how familiar with it, Jason, but like
people always say that the cap is a myth, like
people don't really believe that the salary cap exists. But
in this case, I mean, if if that's how they're
kind of phrasing it, well, then maybe there is buyer's
remorse on how much they're giving Rourk. I mean, like
I said, his performance was not very good this year.
But you know, this is the thing. Are you buying

(30:06):
into this version of Nathan Orrick of the one two
years ago and the one that if given preparation and time,
can be at that same level. But again, this is
kind of what happens with athletes. And you guys were
sort of talking about a little earlier, was sometimes you
kind of get this currency as a player when you
play so well for one year or for a couple
of years, and you just kind of buy it. I mean,

(30:28):
I still remember thinking that way. Just to give a
random example, not a football player, but a basketball player,
Derek Rose. I mean I loved him, and then he
tore his ACL and then he just kept having injuries
and everyone kept thinking like, well, can he get back
to that MVP season he had and it just never happened.
Like sometimes you just buy currency as an athlete, and
people just take a lot longer to kind of, you know,
let it go because they really believe like, well, maybe

(30:48):
this is gonna happen, Maybe it's gonna happen. Now, maybe
this is you know, the magical mcguffin, So it really
depends they're gonna have to do that evaluation in the offseason.
But the fact of the matter is they're not gonna
have their safety valve because VA is pretty much gone.
So you better be damn sure you know what you're
doing with that. And maybe that is what it is,
But I don't know. It's hard to say because he's

(31:09):
been away. He was in the NFL. He came mid season,
which I will admit is tough to just try and
adjust and try to start games all of a sudden,
like he was going to start playing like he did
two years ago. That was kind of an unrealistic expectation.
But I think it's hard to be saying that you
need to be restructuring the marketing cap after you promised
all of that to him like six weeks ago.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, and he had the article out. I think he
said like, well, at least I know where I'm going
to be next year. And I'm like, well, thank god
for that, Like I'm glad that you know now where
you're going to be. No, well, I mean a perfect
player example Andy of your time about I mean all
the allegations decided is to Sean Watson right, like here,
we've waited what four seasons now, like hey, it's Shawn

(31:49):
going to get back to kind of what he was.
It's good to know that they're missing now in the
Three Down podcasts, I'm missing out on conversations about Lamar
Jackson being paid forty million dollars out in the market
budget to come play and then uh them Zach Clara
sending Jason Kelsey uh Winnipeg Blue Bombers merchant and now
arriving in the mill.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
So it's good to know. Let's getting into the conversations
that they're had on there.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Jason thoughts on that's on the Lions situation here, and
they will well I want to talk Toronto all that.
We'll get to the game preview. But yeah, we got
an hour battle this stuff. I think we're going to look.

Speaker 5 (32:21):
Yeah, I mean, I wasn't aware of I didn't see
what bar Han said about this. I thought that, you know,
like obviously they're gonna have some problems with this roster,
just given the fact that where they finished the season.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
I think they have some obvious holes.

Speaker 5 (32:35):
So it makes sense that they would want to free
up some money, especially given the fact that Work's gonna
be given such a huge figure next year. So I
think Nathan will probably be okay with that full season
of preparation, like you know what Andy was saying, But
I think, uh, you know, there definitely are concerns about it.
I think that you know, maybe it was that he

(32:57):
wasn't fully comfortable there, just given the fact that was there,
and it kind of still felt like his team. So
that's what gives me hope going into next year, if
you know, he's the guy, and you know, obviously they're
gonna move on from Va this offseason, and VA even
said that himself, But I think that if you do that,
I think, you know, Vernon Nathan is probably gonna have

(33:17):
some success next year and play a lot better. But
they do have other problems on this roster. And I think,
you know, as for why they went over the cap,
I'm being almost every team that hosts the Great Cup
ultimately goes over the salary cap. It's just a pretty,
you know, normal thing. I think people need to stop
overreacting to the CFL teams going over the salary cap.

(33:38):
It's more like the NBA's salary cap. Where you pay
a luxury tax for every dollar that you go over.
So I don't think people really understand that fully. And
one final thing is I want them to fully say what,
like how does this marketing cap work or how does
this marketing money work? I think they really need to

(33:58):
start explaining that at her They put that in the
CBA obviously when they agreed to that a couple of
years ago, but I still don't understand it. And I
follow this league on a daily basis, so you know,
just your average fan trying to understand that must be
a pain.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah, two quick things and we'll go to Evan God
blessed Vernon. Like his post game, he's staying on a
really emotional about a lot of stuff, like really gone
through a lot. And you remember, you know, two years
ago and being traded from Montreal mid season, and I
mean I think he was on the podcast at that
point talking like, Okay, well I'm paying rent into Cooma
and I'm paying rent in Montreal. Now I got to

(34:34):
get a place in BC. And then this year and
the injuries and and Nathan and all.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
That like has to be a mess.

Speaker 6 (34:40):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
I did laugh.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
Speaking of the luxury taxes and all that. Like, uh,
Dorothy the other day we actually had a very insightful
conversation where she's like, you know, that's why I like
football and not baseball is because like she's like, the
Mariners are never gonna win because they're never gonna spend money, right, and.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Like get the football.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
It's a little more like I'm like, this is a
little bit more of a nuanced conversation. I wou there's
actually perjority here after a badge and the Dodgers and
all that, but evan any other thoughts on the Lions
or sask and then wile transition to Toronto here?

Speaker 6 (35:08):
Yeah, simply put, I mean, you know, they're paying Nathan
Work a lot of money and what I'm interested to see,
you know, next year in BC. You know, regardless of
who the coaches or what else is going on, you
know what happens to the rest of the roster, right
because as Jason pointed out, you know, there's some holes
on both sides of the ball they got to fill.
For me, you know, if I was you know, they're
sitting the GM. If I was Neil McAvoy, you know

(35:29):
I would I would probably look at the run game. Still,
you know, look, they brought him Williams stand back this year.
I know he was mentioned before. I think he did
his job, but I still think you need more than that.
You know, he was just like the one back that
they could use, and then there wasn't much else there
outside of that. So I would take a long hard
look at the run game, so you know, who are
we going to add there? You know, do a proper evaluation.

(35:51):
They did trade for that guy Blake and on his
name from Montreal mid season. I don't have the numbers
on the y yep, josh Ron Antwey, that's right, you know,
they so they got him, you know, and that I
don't know, that was like maybe they're moved to booster
the bolster the run game rather you know, But we'll
see what happens. Again, there's a lot of things I

(36:11):
don't have see what's tough about salary right and especially
you know in the CFLs like I don't have you know,
where every guy is at with his contract. It just
sounds like they have some work to do, you know,
So hopefully they get started on that sooner rather than later.
And again, just a really interesting situation overall to follow,
you know, whether you include the salary cap or not.
What's gonna happen with BC? And you know, does Nathan

(36:33):
Rourke get back to back to his twenty twenty two form.
I think it's worth pointing out, you know, as good
as Nathan work was, and you know, we all bought
him into the hype. Like I saw him play in
person through for like four hundred yards against Edmonton. You know,
he only ended up playing in like eight games, you know,
in the regular season and had the playoff game. That's
a very small sample size. Like if you compare that,

(36:55):
you know, I don't normally do this, but like if
you would, you know, he compare that to like the
UF right, which is Look, it's different than Canadian football.
I get it, okay, but a UFL season is considered short.
And you know, if you're starting quarterback in the UFL
and you don't lose your job or you don't get hurt,
that's ten games, you know. So Nathan Rourke had less
than one UFL season of tape in twenty twenty two,

(37:17):
and since then he's gone on. You know, multiple NFL
teams came back to the CFL. You know, I'll be
interested to see what happens because you know, again, he
came there, you know, mid season, towards the end of
the season, you know, for BC. And I still think
it was a bit strange, you know, that they decided
to play him right away, expecting that he was just

(37:37):
gonna be himself in twenty twenty two and there wouldn't
be any need to build up. I think again, if
I was the one making the calls there, you know,
I say, hey, Nathan, look nice to have you back,
but we're going to give you more time, you know,
to work with the offense and see how you fit
and adjust back to the Canadian game since you've been
in the NFL for a year. And then I would
have just, you know, maybe played Chase Brice until Vernon

(37:59):
Adams was healthy, and then you know, gave Vernon Adams
his job back, as opposed to letting Nathan play all
those games is kind of an experiment and then saying,
oh boy, well now we've lost a lot, you know,
let's go back to Vernon Adams. And then you know,
me and Reed were there last week of the regular
season when Vernon played lights out, And you know, the
last thing I'll say about all this, just because I

(38:19):
know we're you know, we're at like forty minutes now
already and we haven't even gotten it thrown on Montreal.
But Vernon's like the ultimate class act. Like I just
love the way that guy talks, you know, I love
the way that guy presents himself in the media. He
says all the right things. That's gonna look really good,
you know, when you need to have a market right
Because again, it's pretty clear that Vernon Adams is going

(38:41):
to be out of there barring a miracle or you know,
they restructure the cap or he adjusts into a backup role.
I don't know, Like I think Vernon Adams is good
enough to be a start in this league. I know
a lot of people agree with me on that. But again,
the way he's carried himself through all this, I think,
you know, if you're another GM you know, wherever else
you know, who's looking for a quarterback, You're like, that's
the guy I want, you know, to to lead my

(39:02):
locker room and to lead my team. You know. So
we'll see where he ends up again, another interesting situation
to follow out.

Speaker 4 (39:08):
Of all this. And then you stole my chess move.
You stole my chess move.

Speaker 7 (39:13):
I was just about to interduct and say that, sorry
to cut you off for you, I just wanted to
say real quick, I absolutely agree with you.

Speaker 4 (39:21):
And not only that, let's talk. Let's talk a little.

Speaker 7 (39:24):
Bit of just a tiny bit more before we move
on about be a maturing as a person in this league.
I remember two years ago he got unceremoniously benched in
Montreal and subsequently traded later on, and there was all
that subtweeting that he was doing about getting replaced by
Trevor Harrison, kind of getting undermined by the team, and
there was a whole question about his his maturity.

Speaker 4 (39:46):
And all that.

Speaker 7 (39:46):
I distinctly remember all that, and then when he got traded,
he kind of took over when Rourick was hurt, but
then where it came back and.

Speaker 4 (39:53):
Got his job back. And this time around he had
the job where it came in.

Speaker 7 (39:58):
Va was hurt and then kind of lost and he
kind of lost it for a while. But for him
to kind of be the guy that he was that
entire time really showed his growth and his maturity. And
to Evan's point, I think he can absolutely be a
primary start in this league. And I'll go one step
for further. And this is just my personal belief. I
think you can win a great Cup with him.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
I really do it.

Speaker 7 (40:16):
In the right situation, I absolutely believe you can do that.
So I just wanted to say that and thank you
for saying bring that up, Evan, No.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
I do one hundred percent because and there wasn't there
the whole thing too, Like he wasn't showing up early
enough for the like I feel like early on, like
years ago, there was kind of that, and then I
think the first time he was on the show with
me or one of them, and he's like, yeah, you know,
I really kind of had to mature here and grow
in and know that I'm I'm. It's not just how
I play, but it's kind of how I lead. It's
funny because you know, BC basically and we've tied around

(40:46):
this story. We basically fell over themselves to bring Nathan
back right and really like this was dating and I
understand the complexities and football are very different, but like
I have some sense of like self esteem here, like
oh hi, I like to.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Oh please, like what can I do to help you?
And and and so.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
But what's ironic now is that the way that Vernon
has handled everything correctly, I would say from a you know,
media perspective almost now. I mean I could see teams
and we have talked in here, you know, falling over
themselves again Vernon next season. And I think Vernon's going
to get a major contract here for a team you know,
Calgary or Edmond, Tander, someone wanting to do that. And

(41:25):
this is you know, how the turns table here with
you know, the office and everything. Like, I think Vernon
played himself into a better position this way. Last things,
for me, I think Rick should be gone. I would
blow up all of that. I've had all of these
people on the show. I think they're all tremendous, and
Neil and Rick, and we've had the same issues with
all these teams for years. And Nathan never should have left.
You should have got a full season. I said that

(41:46):
at the time. He left too early. I understand betting
on yourself, but you know, win a playoff game in
the CFL and then and then try to kind of
kind of move your talents down down south here, let's
talk about this, Let's get Jason on this. Toronto really
kind of thrash here a little bit. Drew Brown forty
six and sixty one.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
This was a wild game. Well, we won't do as
deep a dive.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Because I want to make sure we actually preview these
matchups in full.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
But Jason, what'd you make it this one?

Speaker 5 (42:15):
Well, as I said earlier in the show, this was
one of the most entertaining first halfs of a game
that I could ever remember. I think it was just
you know, constant big plays back and forth, you know,
every offense or each offense just making plays to stay
on the field. And Ottawa looked very good and looked
like they had a real shot to win this game
early on, but ultimately they settled for a few field

(42:38):
goals in the in the first half, and then they
cooled off in the second half, whereas Toronto does, where
it was a you know, smooth oiled machine. They just
you know, kept on making big play after big play.
You know, Chad Kelly, I mean, say what you want
about him, but he played a near flawless game in
this one. Ottawa got to him a couple times early.
I think Lorenzo Maldon had strips act on him, but

(43:02):
you know, other than that, I think, you know, he
was basically twenty yards a pass just big plays down
the field, just you know, just regular stuff that we've
seen from him going back to last year when he
won the MOP. So that is a great sign if
you're an Argus fan going into this game against Montreal,
that he showed he could do it in a playoff
environment and fifty eight points. I know they had a

(43:23):
couple of pick sixes in there, but that kind of
speaks for itself with how well this offense performed in
this one in Ottawa, just you know, just gave up
too many big plays and it's ultimately been the story
for them the last couple of seasons. They've been pretty
weak in terms of their past defense, and it really
reared its ugly head in them in this game.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
Yeah, this really high flying. I really loved the move
me here. I laughed, and I had a tweet at
one point. I didn't I didn't tweet.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
It out, but when Regas Chad was pulled out for
concussion or whatever for a couple of plays there, and
there was that weird shot of sidelines with the ref
like fist bump and the argo sidelines, and I said like, well,
you know, you gotta let Chad back in the game
because we all know what happens when you tell Chad no,
that's andy on the Toronto and Ottawa.

Speaker 4 (44:10):
No comment on that situation.

Speaker 7 (44:12):
But what I can coming on, I you know what
I'm gonna say, Evan, I think you're onto something about
getting Jun Jones back in the CFL, because can we
have the air raid every game?

Speaker 4 (44:22):
Yeah? Oh my goodness.

Speaker 7 (44:23):
Ottawa's game plan for a team that lost by twenty
can I say they just love their offensive game plans.
Having six receivers as crazy as it was, completely befuddled
Toronto for an entire half. They were absolutely just gassed
going up the field. I know they had a predictable
situation as far as like running their pass rushers, but
my god, like Ottawa's just running wild out on the

(44:46):
on the field. I love the that they had six
receivers and Drew Brown was really dialed in. I know
we had the two pick six's at the end of
the game. He was trying to force it. He was
trying to force a comeback. But overall I thought he
played really, really well. I think this is extremely encouraging
for Ottawa going forward. But really two things stand out. One, yes,
obviously their secondary got absolutely eviscerated. I mean, when you,

(45:08):
as a quarterback are able to have more touchdowns than
in completions and it almost by like more than double,
I think that just kind of is a testament to
your performance. But also the defense is really doing nothing
to stop you. Second of all, look, Reid, I know
you're gonna get on me about this, about the whole
momentum thing, but just let me talk for a second.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
Oh yeah, okay.

Speaker 7 (45:28):
Ottawa had a huge gaff at the end of the
first half where they tried to squip kick because they
didn't want to kick off the Janearing Grant fair enough,
because that's like kicking off the Devin Harris Hester in
his prime. But they hit one of the Argonaut's players
and it was in basically bounce into field goal range,
and the Argonauts got a field goal right before half,
and that cut into the deficit. I think that did

(45:49):
like for Ottawa. I don't think it would have ultimately mattered.
They probably would have given up enough points anyways. But
for you to have that kind of performance on offense
and score touchdown right before that and then to give
up points and kind of lose that a little bit
going into the second half, I mean Toronto came right
back down the field and scored a touchdown, So there
you go, ten points shifts over, they take the lead.
I think that was kind of a bit of a

(46:10):
I do believe it was a bit of a momentum killer,
even though ultimately I think they would have lost the game.
So I know you were going on and giving me
a crap about it and then the group chat, but
I think it's just kind of a testament that coaching
matchup wise. Look, Bob Dice had a much better year
this year, but Ryan Didwitty. Where we were talking about
Coach of the Year candidates, I can't believe Ryan did
Witty wasn't on the ballot from the East. I know

(46:31):
Jason Moss had the team that won the most games
in the East, but you lost all that talent, and
you didn't have Chad Kelly for half the year, and
you managed to somehow sweak out ten wins with this
team with you know, obviously Camberon Dukes and Nick Arbuckle
getting major playing time. I mean, I think that was
an an outstanding, really just overall coaching performance by Ryan Dinwitty,

(46:56):
and ultimately I think that's what took the argos over
the top.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
Yeah, Jason, we were having a conversation in the group
chat about how, yeah, the field goal and all of that.
Somehow them related to you all the way. Messing that
up somehow related to them giving up. I went thirty
eight points in the second half, Like, don't I believe
the momentum in sports? I hate it because all of

(47:20):
my teams, for the most part, seemed incapable of adjusting
from it.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
I just watched the Crack And play.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Last night and there was like this weird fluky and
it was offsides. Then they got scored on and they
challenged it, and then it was reversed, and then they
sat there for ten minutes and then they re reversed it.
Like you know, at that point, you're like, well, the
crack And are never winning this game because like, if anything,
they're like and it.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Was like breaking my mic.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
It was like halfway through the second period, You're like, well, like,
this game's done.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
I do not believe that out of one messing.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
That up related to thirty eight points giving up in
the second half. I will beg to differ with Andy
on that that. Evan thoughts on this game.

Speaker 6 (47:58):
Yeah, before I get into the game. I'm gonna build
off Andy's point because this is something I've wanted to
say for a long time. At the beginning of the season,
I said in Toronto is going to be a team
to look out for this year, and a lot of
people said, no, they've lost too much talent. You know,
they're not gonna be able to get over the hump.
Chad Kelly suspended, Like you know, everything's coming undone. I'll
just give you some perspective here. You know, Toronto, So

(48:20):
the players that they lost after twenty twenty three, Jamal
Peters to Hamilton a Darius Pickett to Ottawa, ajl At
to Saskatchewan Javon League to Edmonton Quantes, Stickers to the NFL,
you know, being drafted by the New York Jets. That's
a lot of key losses, no doubt. But then I
look at the guys, you know who they added, and
this is why I predicted them to be, you know,
a good team this year. And look, some of them

(48:42):
were a surprise. Some of them I felt like, we're
just underrated. Kadeen Cary from Calgary, you know, doing what
he's doing at like thirty three years old for a
running back is phenomenal. Genarian Grant from Winnipeg. It is
amazing how he was a free agent for so long
and that nobody wanted to sign him, and then Toronto
brought him in and you know, he's probably gonna win
Most Outstanding Special Teams Player. I mean, that's unbelievable. Again,

(49:04):
they had Javon Leak, you know, who was like the
top return guy in the league last year, and I guess,
you know, took over a place that had been owned
by Mario Alford in Saskatchewan for a long time. You know,
Javon Leake goes to Edmonton and then Toronto snags Jenerary
and Grant and it's almost better again. Just an incredible
turnaround there. Speaking of Edmonton, Jake Cresna, you know, being

(49:26):
traded from Edmonton over there. I believe it was for
Curly Gettons if I'm not mistaken, But you know, Jake Ceresna,
I mean, outstanding player in Edmonton, felt like he didn't
get enough credit and he's really, you know, bolstered that
Toronto defensive line this year. And then Ralph Hawley, another guy,
you know, former Philadelphia star in the USFL. He really

(49:46):
came along this year. You know, he's a guy who
I maybe thought, you know, could have had, you know,
a vote for most out Standing Rookie ar should have
been on the ballot. Unfortunately he wasn't.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
You know.

Speaker 6 (49:57):
There's a lot of offensive playmakers, including McKay polk, you know,
he's on there, rookie out of Mississippi State. And then the
two guys who have been there, you know that I
just don't think have gotten enough credit. You know, for
a while now are trying not to butcher this name,
but Falerin Arima Laude and then who's a defensive lineman,
and then Wynton McManus, the linebacker. You know, I think

(50:18):
both of those guys are very high impact players that
got overlooked, you know during this cycle where everybody's talking
about Toronto losing this guy, losing that guy. Yeah, so
a lot of credit, you know, not only to Ryan Dinwiddie,
but to the Toronto front office in particular the general
manager Michael Pinball Clemens and assistant general manager John Murphy.

(50:38):
You know, fantastic work with the roster, even in the
even in that the East Final, which I'll get into
the actual game now. You know, you had guys stepping
up who hadn't really done anything or hadn't done much
all year. Jake Herzlow, you know, the receiver from Houston
who's supposed to be UFL guy. Benji Franklin, another guy
that could have played in the UFL. Both Herzlow and

(51:01):
Franklin had their rights with Houston. Tavaris McFadden, who I
thought it was really kind of interesting, you know, where
wenton McManus. I think he had the interception and kind
of threw it over to Tarvaris mcfadd and he ran
it back for the pick six. And Tavaris McFadden, you know,
was on the Ottawa Redblacks roster at one point this year,
and again another former XFL guy. So there's a whole

(51:23):
lot of lower there for you know, all of the
people like myself who keep up with you know, player
personnel and where this guy's been and all that. But anyway,
looking at the actual game, I think a lot of
it's already been covered. The main storyline here should be
Chad Kelly redeeming himself. I mean after that, you know,
meltdown in Montreal last year, you know, probably one of

(51:43):
the worst playoff games, especially by a guy who won
Most Outstanding Player. Nobody expected that. I think we're still
all reeling from that to some degree of like the
oh wow, you know, like that that really happened. But
he went out there and man, he he looked exceptional.
I mean, I you know, you talk about teams getting
hot at the right time. I mean, I don't think

(52:04):
what Toronto did there was a fluke, and I think
they can carry that. They can carry that a long ways,
maybe to the Great Cup. That's certainly where I'm leaning
right now. As for Ottawa, you know, like Andy said,
I'll give Tommy Condell credit, you know, to have, you know,
to not have like a traditional running back in the backfield.
You've got Braylan Addison, Devonte Deadman, who's your returner. You're

(52:25):
running a lot of those five six receiver sets. For
him to keep Toronto on the ropes like that for
an entire half is pretty incredible. You know, I didn't
know what to expect, you know, from Ottawa going into
that game, you know, whether their past game would be
able to make up for the lack of a run
game that they haven't had for you know, some time now.
But I also think it's ultimately the run game. You know,

(52:48):
that really hurt them because you know, look, I understand
there were a couple you know, coverage busts by the
DBS that was pretty obvious. It allowed Chad Chad Kelly
to be really efficient, you know, But I just don't
you know, I don't know why there wasn't another running
back option there. I mean, there were a couple of

(53:08):
guys I think. I'm not sure if Layborne, the running
back for Marshall, is still there on their practice roster.
If he was, I don't know why, you know, he
didn't play or wasn't elevated. I had talked about it,
you know, privately before. But like Kevin Brown, you know,
who was a thousand yard rusher in Edmonton last season,
you know kind of you know, took a step back

(53:29):
to Justin Rankin, who you know, came up from the
IFL this year, you know, in Edmonton, ended up being
on the practice roster in Edmonton at the end of
the season. But what that means is he was a
free agent, and as far as I'm concerned, you know,
the interim GM and Edmonton Gerroy Simon didn't sign him
to a futures deal to keep him there. So he
was a free agent. He was available you know, to

(53:50):
sign going into that game, and they didn't make that move.
And you know, I'm not saying he's like the only
running back that would have made sense, but to have
a guy you know, who had so much success last
year or some success this year just kind of ended up,
you know, kind of getting outworked by another really good
running back and you know, yeah, you just don't see
that situation. Kind of There's not players who are available

(54:12):
like that all the time, who have just you know,
played a full CFL season. Now they can go join
another team for the playoffs. I think that's it, you know.
I mean Ottawa's offense obviously slowed down in the second half.
I think Toronto just did a really good job at
keeping pace right Like that first half you could kind
of tell they were hitting all the right you know,

(54:33):
deep shots to Makay Polk and Deavars Daniels, and then
they came out of the locker room and continued to
do that, you know, like they didn't slow down, whereas
Ottawa kind of does. Long sustained drives on offense that
they had in the first half just weren't there. And
Chad Kelly was still dealing, you know, they were still
running the ball very well and then kind of ran
up to score at the end with two pick sixes.
But again, fantastic game by Toronto. I really I again

(54:59):
picked to win. I thought they would win that game
just based on everything. But they looked real good. You know,
I think that's a team. Again, we're not the previews yet,
but Montreal, you know, they they might have, you know,
a right to be concerned.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Yeah, we'll see if Toronto can carry that momentum into
the finals.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
Here will see.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Let's go here a game previous here, get out of here,
and he's gotta go work, and I'm gonna go.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
My brother is a big John Wick fan. I guess
they're re released John the Wick and Theater. So I
guess that's what we're doing tonight, Jason. I'll go to
you first. Let's touch on both games.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
We'll go around the horn here at Toronto with Montreal
and then sask Winnipeg.

Speaker 5 (55:37):
Yeah, so Toronto and Montreal. I think the main thing
I'm watching is do the turnovers from last year's East
Final repeat themselves. Because we talked about last week that
was the main reason that Montreal was able to win
that game against Toronto in blowout fashion. I think that
if Chad Kelly can keep the turnovers to a minimal
or zero, I think they have a great chance of

(55:58):
winning this game because they're a much more explosive team
than Montreal. I think that, you know, Montreal, that's the
big question I have for them in this game. Can
they hit those deep shots and you know, you know,
it doesn't have to be anything crazy, but you know,
provide a couple of big plays to really loosen up
the defense underneath and get them going. And I think
Austin Mack is a guy I'm really looking forward to

(56:20):
seeing if he can pop off for a big game.
He's been pretty quiet and a little bit injured since
he's been back from the NFL, so he's a guy
I'm watching in this game. So those are what I'm
looking for in that one. And then for Saskatchewan Winnipeg,
I think it's strength versus strength. They talked about Saskatchewan's
run defense earlier being the best in the CFL. Well,

(56:41):
you're going up against Brady olivera who's probably the favorite
to win MP. I think that is the matchup to
watch in that one. Because Winnipeg's passing offense still hasn't
been great in the entire season if you take the
whole body of work. They for certainly better the second
half of the season, but you know, they weren't the
greatest throughout the course of the season. So I think
that's what you're more concerned about. If your sascatsch one,

(57:02):
and then you know, can Trevor Harris translate to what
he did, you know back in Saskats one on the
road in Winnipeg, you know, with the elements, I think
having balanced on the offense with the Brady oliveras or
a jo O Lett and raykul Armstead will be huge
for that team. And yeah, it should be interesting to
see what happens in these two games.

Speaker 7 (57:22):
It's good to you, Andy, Yeah, I mean, I love
the fact that we're getting a rematch of the Eastern
Final because is Chad Gilly going to be seeing ghosts
again and specifically is he going to be seeing Mark
Antoine Daqua again, who he threw that infamous pick six
to really start off the absolute debacle at home that
he had against Montreal. And again Montreal has been awesome

(57:45):
at home. Their defense has been fantastic this year. Tyres
Beverett has been an absolute monster for them in the
linebacking corps.

Speaker 4 (57:53):
I just really.

Speaker 7 (57:54):
Like the fact that they get the house a home
playoff game and that those horns are just going to
be working over time. But for Toronto, to Evan's point,
they have been playing outstanding. I know Reid can't wait,
but to Evan's point, I really think it's been outstanding
play from the Toronto Argos lately, and especially on offense,
they've really found their groove. Chad Kelly has kind of

(58:16):
come back into the form, you know, condeem carry. Can
he be a factor in this offense? Engineering grant have
he had a return touchdown against Montreal the upset Montreal.
They actually got the first win against Montreal this year
earlier in the year, so they've done it.

Speaker 4 (58:31):
They can't do it. It's very possible.

Speaker 7 (58:33):
You're talking about the last two great Cup champions in
a final like that's fantastic.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
I love that.

Speaker 7 (58:38):
I'll sign up for that matchup any day of the week,
but we'll see. I think for me that that matchup
ultimately boils down to how well both defenses play, and
I do think Montreal does have a bit of an
up and hand there to flip over really quickly to
the Western Final. Yeah, Winnipeg, I mean standard quote, you
just kind of play within your game. Interestingly enough, CISCT

(59:00):
which one did get five turnovers off of them in
that last Western Final three years ago, and it didn't matter.
They still lost by four. And to Jason's point, that's
been their calling call card all year. So SASH one
is plus at huge plus in the turnover margin, but
can they make the plays when it matters Winnipeg time
after time after time. I mean, they're on the verge
of having their fifth straight birth in the Great Cup

(59:21):
that is Edmonton Eskimo's levels of history right there. So
I don't know if they if they have the firepower
as much this year. We kind of dogged them all year,
but really again, it's kind of the same thing in Montreal.
Their defense has been really good, their their secondary is awesome.
So I think for me, it's the home playoffs and
the defenses at home that really I think could go

(59:43):
a long way into dictoti dictating both of these matchups.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
A last well and Evan take it some.

Speaker 6 (59:48):
Yeah, you know, so in this Montreal Toronto game, I
think a big key for Montreal is you know, Cody Fajardo,
you know, finding some receivers, like I think a big
you know, hit that team took early in the year
was losing Tyson Philpott. You know, he was doing some
great things before he went down. The guy I'd look
out for in that game is Charleston Rambo, former XFL guy.

(01:00:09):
I think I talked to him, talked about him on
the on the season preview, said, you know that's a
that's a rookie receiver, you know who might have a
big year in the CFL. Of course, there were a
lot of good rookie receivers this year in the CFL.
Makai Polk already talked about him, Shamar Bridges, Khalil Pimpleton.
You know, but I really I still like Toronto a lot.
In that game, again, I just can't get over what
they did against Ottawa. It was the definition of a

(01:00:31):
complete game, all three phases, you know, And I think
if Montreal loses that game, you'll go back to that,
you know a bit about well, you know, they played BC.
You know, they weren't really it was kind of a
vanilla game for them. Then you get to buy then
you have a big playoff game, you know, is that
necessarily a benefit? I think that's gonna come up, you know,
if they dropped that game. What I'm really focused on, knowing,

(01:00:54):
what I'm really excited for is this West Final because
I think Saskatchewan they are a team. You know, they've
had the This is the team who has the best
chance to beat Winnipeg in a while. In my opinion,
I think the way that team is constructed. You know,
you look at their backfield between A. J. Lett and
rkweil Armstead, you know, and then you look at their defense,

(01:01:16):
who I still think is a bit underrated, but a
really good unit. Again, you talk about the turnover margin,
a couple of other things they've done great this year.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:01:24):
That is again, I think they're in a good spot
to win that game. Now, with that being said, it's
gonna be a sold out crowd in Winnipeg, you know,
thirty three thousand. I'm not saying that Saskatchewan can't play
in front of crowd noise. You know, I definitely know
they can play in weather. Although, as we've talked about too,
the weather looks pretty favorable that day, you know, so

(01:01:45):
that one to me is very interesting. Again, I think
to Andy, he said it perfectly. It's just gonna come
down to Kansaskatchewan make the big play in the big moment,
because we know Winnipeg can do that, and they do
that a whole lot. You know, That's why they've gone
to you know, four straight Gray Cups on the verge
of five. It's going to come down to, you know,
in that moment. Again, very similar. I think about the

(01:02:07):
Great Cup last year when Cody Fajardo, you know, it
was third down, you know, once he got over that,
you rattle off a couple of plays and then you
win the game. You know, can Trevor Harris do something
similar in this game? And I'll go out on a
limb here and I'll say, if Saskatchewan does win that game,
which right now I'm not sure if I would pick
that out right, but if they do win that game,

(01:02:27):
I'm giving them a good chance. I think that game
might be bigger than whoever wins the Great Cup, just
because you're dethroning you know what, is essentially a team
who I don't know if you put the dynasty label
on them yet, but you know, I think that they're
I think that they're borderline. You know, four straight Gray
Cups is hard. It's really hard, and especially you know,
you have to give credit to that organization. They went

(01:02:49):
to one in twenty nineteen, had a season canceled in
twenty twenty where there was a lot of uncertainty around
the league. You didn't know. It was like the whole
world was kind of collapsing around him. And then you
come back the next year and you win, and then
you go again, and you go last year, and I
know the past two years they haven't been able to
do it, but they've been so close in every game,

(01:03:10):
Like if you look at the past two Great Cups
that they lost, it's a couple plays, right, you know.
But if Saskatchewan can go in there and pull off
an upset, I think that I think that has you know,
that will change the entire landscape of the CFL. I'm
not afraid to say that. So I'm really excited for
that game.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
No, it should be good.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Like I said, I'm going with sask My head says Toronto.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
My heart wants Montreal just because of the guys over there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
But as you guys have said, I think Toronto's gotten
that firepower for that we'll get out of here. I
appreciate everyone. Like I said, we'll see you next week.
I live from the lions Den in Vancouver. Appreciate everyone
hopping on and we'll see everyone next time.