January 17, 2024 • 50 mins
The boys at MatStats discuss the Ivy League leaving the EIWA. MatStats uses stats and past shows to inform the viewers why the Ivy League departing the EIWA could increase the chances for growing the sport. MatStats looks at the big picture and reveals reasons we should wrap our arms around the decision for the Ivy League to go out on its own.
Full Slideshow: https://www.mattalkonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Ep28slideshow.pdf
Sticker Mule wants to make sure your team, program, company or project is set to go with quality graphics and promotional materials. With custom sizes and styles, let Sticker Mule take care of your brand today. Check out this wrestling-friendly business today at https://www.stickermule.com/custom-stickers
About Mat Stats
Welcome to the NWCA’s latest venture to help our favorite sport. Glenn Gormley, Jason Bryant and Kevin Hazard outline their effort to bring statistical analysis to wrestling. Mat Stats is the NWCA’s attempt to bring wrestling up to speed with so many other sports by incorporating stats. It is the same sport, the wrestlers are just older and better.
Mat Stats by the NWCA is a monthly podcast by the National Wrestling Coaches Association Apple Podcasts | Spotify | iHeartRadio | Podcast Addict | Castbox | RSS
Full Slideshow: https://www.mattalkonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Ep28slideshow.pdf
Sticker Mule wants to make sure your team, program, company or project is set to go with quality graphics and promotional materials. With custom sizes and styles, let Sticker Mule take care of your brand today. Check out this wrestling-friendly business today at https://www.stickermule.com/custom-stickers
About Mat Stats
Welcome to the NWCA’s latest venture to help our favorite sport. Glenn Gormley, Jason Bryant and Kevin Hazard outline their effort to bring statistical analysis to wrestling. Mat Stats is the NWCA’s attempt to bring wrestling up to speed with so many other sports by incorporating stats. It is the same sport, the wrestlers are just older and better.
Mat Stats by the NWCA is a monthly podcast by the National Wrestling Coaches Association Apple Podcasts | Spotify | iHeartRadio | Podcast Addict | Castbox | RSS
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Statistics. They can mean many things. It can be a batting average,
a win percentage, correlations, andstandard deviation. But numbers aren't just for
nerds. In life, decisions needdata. In wrestling decisions, projections and
hypotheticals also need data. Here onMatt Stats we take historical data, theories,
(00:28):
and statistics and apply it to theworld's oldest and greatest sport. Now
to your trio of numerical nerd balls, Glenn Gormley, Kevin Hazard, and
Jason Bryant, and welcome to theMatch Stats Show, Episode twenty eight.
Today we get to talk about realignmentagain. Oh goodie, on board with
(00:51):
us today as always the Grand Poobaof wrestling Kevin Hazard and our resident statistician
Glenn Gormley, two gentlemen who havespent considerable time in around the conference we
are going to be talking about today. The EIWA and the IVY is the
split that has been the topic ofdiscussion amongst Alts, especially the Eastern fans,
and what goes along with it,the tradition, the histories. We're
(01:11):
going to dive into that today,and speaking of tradition in history, before
we get into the topic, I'mcoming off a weekend back home in my
literally my old stomping grounds of theseven five seven Hampton, Virginia. You
know, one mile basically like twominutes over from where I went to high
school in Pecoson. I grew upin Newport News and Pecosa. Kevin,
you taught in Newport News and coachdown there. So you know about the
(01:36):
history of who started the Virginia Duels. Granted they weren't in existence when you
were at Warwick High School, butyou know that area, the John Graham,
you know, the mccormicks. They'veall really come together and run this
tournament for for forty four years,forty three years, forty four years.
We had the cancelation in twenty twentyone. But you know, when we
talk about a lot of innovations thathave come out of wrestling, Virginia Dules
(01:59):
is one of them. Oh yeah, the Virginia Duels was really I mean
it's the forerunner of the National Duels. I mean at one time that was
the if you with a good dualmeet team in college, you were going
there. And the high school level, a lot of really really good high
school teams have been through national rankteams. Yeah, and Glenn. You
(02:23):
know William and Mary right there.They were involved in the first several duels
before, of course the program wasdisbanded. But that used to be an
area where the elite high school kidsthat had a chance to wrestle on the
mats in front of the college teams. And now that you know, you
know, recruiting via the Internet haschanged things a little bit. Now we've
got a sixteen team small college division. I was talking to Jeff Bedard,
(02:45):
the head coach at Reinhart, oneof the new programs down in Georgia,
and he says, you know,I couldn't afford to go out to Iowa
when they shifted him from Louisville toIowa. And he goes, I came
up here and I got a recruitingtrip out of it. So a lot
of those small colleges are taking advantageof the opportunity to their school name out
in front of the high school kids. And a lot of the kids in
those divisions are probably a division two, divisions three nai level that say,
(03:07):
hey, let's look at those opportunitiesthat they may have even known existed because
the schools have only been around alot of them for anywhere from five to
ten years, except the Appredi School, which has been around since the Grand
Puba had hair. That is anumber of decades. Yes, yeah,
I was actually on the way youmarried team when the tournaments started out,
(03:28):
and then of course was the assistantcoacher where you married for a few years
and that was like one of thebig highlights of our year. If we
got invited to the Virginia Duels,we really thought a lot of it.
Hats off to the Grahams and themccormicks and everybody there from p WA that
started that. Yep, it's Iget to go home. It's like Christmas
for me. I know that.Of course, media media, local media,
(03:50):
Hampton Roads Wrestling guru Franklopoli has beenHe whipped the votes, as we
say, he had all three majorstations there, three, ten, and
thirteen were there, so rest onTV and of course dude Bruce Raider showed
up. He's retired from Wavy.Bruce Raider was there watching his you know,
his kids wrestled, so he's I'msitting there talking to Bruce, like,
Bruce, when'd you come eight?You want to go seventy four?
(04:11):
Because he's got to got that voicewhere you know, Hey, everybody,
Bruce Rainer Hamfter, what's up withthe Redskins? You know back when they
were called that. So Bruce andI got to talk for a bit,
and you know, always said localnews media, so you know, Frank
for example, has always gotten theTV stations out there. So it's the
first time I've been down since twentybecause twenty twenty one we were canceled.
Twenty twenty two, I got COVIDtwenty twenty three out of home hockey series
(04:34):
up there. But good to beback in the old stomping grounds. Don't
think I heard my real name atall over the course of the three days
four days I was down there.We'll just move on from that. But
Glenn, talk to us today aboutwhat why what is the impetus for today's
show. When one door closes,another opens. I've heard that a lot
through my life and the mistakes thatwe make as kids and relationships that end
(04:57):
and relationships that bloom. But nowwe've got it in a wrestling sense.
Yes, now we have a wrestlingsense. Jason, thank you for the
introduction there, as some of yourviewers might know and stuff like that.
Kevin and I both went to WilliamMary and Jason grew up right down the
road from US. Okay, Soas soon as the IVY leagues the word
came out that they were splitting intwenty twenty five to leave the iwa I
(05:20):
got texts from a bunch of willYou Mary alumni guys that I coached,
who some of them thought the skywas falling in blah blah blah, but
they wanted to learn about this more. So I thought this was a great
opportunity to do this show on thisokay. And what Jason said that when
one door closes, another one opens, a famous quote by Alexander Graham Bell,
(05:41):
who really didn't do much for theVirginia Duels or anything like that,
but he had a lot to dowith that with world history. Okay,
so what he has to know atwhat he has done though, is he
you know, he invented the lightbulb or phone. So we've had John
Graham once said that he never hadKylie Flower ear, and still he started
making st and making the calls toget people come to the Virginia Duels.
(06:02):
And speaking of phones, it's likea number. Yep, yeah, it
feel like a number. So that'sour little theme song for this show.
I feel like a number of theold Bob Seeker song. Okay, and
then of course we also think aboutprobably the most famous song ever with numbers
in It is eight six seven fivethree oh nine. Everyone our age knows
(06:23):
that phone number. I'm just gladthat it's not my number. It's Danny's
glass in Yorktown and Hampton, Virginia, so speak keeping tying it back into
the seven five seven. Yes.Yes, So the opinions expressed on this
show do not necessarily reflect opinions ofthe NWCA, nor necessarily do Kevin,
Glenn and Jason all agree on everyopinion either on this show, and I'm
(06:47):
using the one that does the powerpoints, or sometimes my opinion comes louder
than the other ones, but thatdoesn't mean I have the only opinion on
this show. Okay, Matt Statsis at numbers show. Okay. We
do get to get to opinions eventually, but it starts out with facts.
And I want to thank again doctorBobby Powell as we call him Boogs and
(07:10):
a random text he sent me.I realized I didn't express this clearly enough.
Okay, So, like we justsaid, Matt Stats resolves around stats.
Okay, now what we do everymonth to start the show. One
question I get all the time iswell, how many teams are there now?
(07:32):
Okay, So, as you cansee on the slide on the thing,
as of one four twenty four,and I checked today, it's still
the same number, there's five hundredand two men and women's wrestling teams in
the NCAA and NAIA. And incase you're wondering, there's more Division two
men's teams than ever. Okay,so blow up your spot a little bit.
(07:57):
I do believe. We did havea new and added last week week
Salem in West Virginia, Yes,is bringing back their swimming programs and adding
men's wrestling. So it's another Divisiontwo school in West Virginia that's going to
be on board. Place I don'tbelieve is every second. Yeah, no,
I have to. I'll have toverify. I actually didn't look that
up when I added it to theroster of ads, but we'll have to
(08:20):
go check on that. But yeah, as we move forward, Okay,
that's a good, huge time.As we move forward, thank you.
Okay, the IVY League is leavingthe iwas after this season. Okay,
this is huge news. Okay.I've always been a fan of the IWA
growing up as a kid in Philly. Of course, the IWSLA CoA right
up to Vade in Bethlehem, thatwas, to me, was everything.
(08:43):
So I wanted to dig deep intothis with Kevin and Jason and come up
with some numbers to inform the viewerswhat this really means. And I try
to do this as unbiasedly as possibledespite being an the IWA fan. Okay.
One of the big stories, aswe see on slide ten here is
(09:03):
nine excuse me, is all thecollege sports realignments, nil coach prime,
little scouting, all this stuff we'veheard about. But this is a basic
show. It's about what happens whenthe six IVY League schools leave the easterns.
Okay, now the IVY League isleaving. What ramifications does this have
(09:30):
on us? All Right? Aswe can see, the IVY leagues thew
excuse me, used to have seventeenmembers and still will this year. All
right, then six IVY League teamswill leave. Okay, so where did
(09:50):
this all start? Okay, thisall started in nineteen oh five. It
was teams that are currently IVY leagues. The Ivy League didn't exist in nineteen
oh five. They go back.They're not even quite as old as Kevin
Hazard the Ivy League. They're onlynineteen fifty four, okay. So there
were four schools that started this.They were Ivy League, but we now
(10:11):
know as Ivy League schools, okay. And then it grew into different schools,
mainly of course in the Eastern area. Now how many different schools have
there been in the Eastern history?Well, of course having the all time
data compiler in the history of theirsport, Jason Bryant, I can ask
(10:37):
him any questions and he'll get itto me right away. And as you
can see, okay, there anold time. There have been thirty three
different schools in the Eiwa. Okay. I still got my way Mary attire
on today and I'm bummed out thatwe don't have a team and we're not
in the easterns Okay. There's seventeento Princeton today. Burn the boats,
(11:01):
so burn the ship. So Idid wear Princeton in regards to the topic
today, and I thought about it, do I I've had a shirt Prinston
fly flying back here. We gota Prince flag flying back there. Makes
sense, right, and the daddyof them all had on yeah yeah,
yeah, motif yeah my ensemble.Yes. Okay. Now a quick point.
(11:28):
Of the seventeen current ei w Ateams, only one has a women's
team. That's of course, SacredHeart. Of the all time thirty three
ei w A teams, only twohave ever had a team Sacred Heart,
as we mentioned, and East Stroudsburghas a women's team all right, now,
Okay, Stroudsburg is no longer inthe Easterns. They dropped the Division
(11:52):
two is the reason they left.And Sacred Heart, of course is still
in it. We will see themin Arch when we go up there.
And of course one of William Mary'sgreats, Terry Cheney, is getting inducted
to the e i w A Hallof Fame. Now the e i w
A. Sometimes we think things haven'tchanged, but how consistent has the e
(12:18):
i w A being. And here'swhat I like to tell my William and
Mary teammates kids I coach all myfellow alumni Kevin Hawsard included when I was
coaching at the i i w A. There's was a long long time ago
in the eighties. There's only fourteams in that ei w A left in
the i w A after the ivysleave, LEI, F and M and
(12:41):
the two academies. That's a littlemind boggling, guys. So what what
we have on the slide slide onit's not a lot, it's mind boggling.
It's it's a lot mind boggling,but a lot. What we've got
left is it's actually not a lotin terms of it's a lot of changes,
(13:03):
not a lot of the similarities withteams after this correct. Now,
as you can see on the screenhere, THEIWA after this march. Okay,
those will be the eleven teams remaining, and it also has on that
slide whether they're private or public andthe main conference they're in now, of
(13:24):
course, EFNEM is a Division threeteam, so they're not in a Division
I conference for anything but wrestling.Okay, you can see there that there's
a big Patriot representation there. There'sfive Patriots schools there. Okay, we'll
get back to that in a littlebit. Okay. Now, the next
(13:46):
thing, of course, is theother six schools that are leaving the IVY
leagues. They're all IVY legs,and you can see on that slide both
Yale and Dartmouth do not have teamsnow because they dropped, but at one
time they are in the IVS now. The slide you can see now on
the show is the eleven of ourfourteen dearly departed EIWA friends, okay,
(14:13):
And it's really everything from a bigathletic school like we are Penn State,
to a small Division III Wilkes,you know, to a small school Springfield
really are something of everything. Andit does interestingly have Boston University and Colgate
who are Patriot schools. Okay now, and then to that point when bu
(14:39):
when the CAA disintegrated and Boston Universitywas joining the Patriot League, it was
like, is the Patriot going tosponsor wrestling because they're the sixth they would
be the sixth school. And sureenough they dropped the program after one year
in the ADWA, and it waslike, really, you now have this
conference, could have officially sanctioned itlike the IVY did without actually having a
(15:00):
championship, which of course would havehad me beating the realignment drum much quicker.
But think about again the stability andhow these athletic directors will use like
well, we don't sponsor it asa sport. Well, the Ivy's for
year sponsored wrestling didn't have an officialautomatic qualifying championship. The Patriot could have
done the same thing, but nowBU had to take that new balance money
and start some other sports. Andyeah, still not happy about that one
(15:24):
either. Well, I know anotherschool that's in the CIA that should have
never dropped. Yeah, we won'tgo there either. That's that school in
Williamsburg. Okay. So the nextquestion that a lot of my fellow will
you Marry people and other people fromaround the country asking me, what's going
to happen. The conference is goingto be horrible. It won't be enough.
(15:46):
He i w is Okay. JasonBryant has put together this slide here
and it shows if we eliminate twentytwenty one because the Ivy's in F and
M did not wrestle that year tothe circumstance, So if we eliminate that
year, going back to two thousandand nine, which was the start of
the new allocation era, okay,there's been four hundred and twenty four bids
(16:11):
that were from the EIWA schools thatwere non IVY Okay. Then as we
see on the slide about this withivy's, there were three hundred and twenty
seven of the same thing, ofcourse, not counting twenty to twenty one
because the IVS had zero. Sowhat does this mean as a percentage wise?
(16:32):
Okay? And as we can see, fifty seven percent or EIWA non
ivs or what we'll call like thenew EIWA and then forty three percent ivs.
Okay. Now where does that aligneveryone? Or some people are going
to say, well, it's goingto be horrible. Well, as you
(16:52):
can see what Jason has on thescreen here, it has the old rank
with the IWA third behind only theBig ten of the Big twelve, and
where they will be ranked based onthe arithmetic mean on the number of bids,
the new EIWA AD and the IVYat Okay, the new EIWA will
(17:15):
be fourth behind the ACC. Therethen the MAC than the ivy's. The
ivy's based on that number will stillhave more than the PAC twelve. Okay,
with the same beams for at leastthis year, only because we all
know it's happening Stanford. Stanford's shiftingcoasts basically, yeah, yeah, exactly,
(17:40):
it's the Old Coast conference sound notthe Atlantic Coast right now, I
think it's the It's also not thecraziest because there is a Division III conference
called the Coast to Coast Conference.It doesn't have wrestling, but Christopher Newport
University in Newport News, Virginia isin the same conference with UC Santa Cruz.
Yes, the banana Slugs. Ifyou've seen pulp fiction or if you're
(18:02):
a mascot nerd like I am,so, yes, California and Virginia can
be in the same conference. Ohwait, it's already happened in Division three,
which is where really it doesn't happen. You don't really see that type
of geographic spans in Division three,but that is the outlier. And I
felt like I needed to get UCSanta Cruz banana Slugs in the show somehow.
(18:23):
Yes, with the captains, okay, And that's also I have to
ask you, do you have abanana slug shirt? You have to have.
They don't have wrestling, so no, good for you. That's kind
of one of my prerequisites. Theexception is I do have a William and
Mary wrestling shirt. Good, thankyou, Jason. And that's the same
thing with the Division one Double,a non scholarship conference. The Pioneer.
(18:48):
You know where Jacksonville and you versusSan Diego in the same conference of why
nerds. It's crazy, Okay.So to give us a little bit of
big picture in the IWA in theOkay, like we said, there's seventeen
schools in there right now. Fourteenare private only ones, a state school
Bighamton, and then of course thetwo federal schools, Army and Navy.
(19:11):
Okay. A little history on theIvy League. It was formed in nineteen
fifty four. It's always had thesame eight schools. I love that about
the Ivy League. They stick withwhat they are. They're all geographically in
the same place. It has sevenof the nine oldest schools in the country,
(19:37):
okay. The only two that alsoolder William Marry the second oldest,
and Rutgers. Okay. The IvyLeagues are private, small, high academic,
high endowment school The total endowment forthe eight Ivy League schools is one
hundred and eighty eight billion. Okay, yes, yes, yes, thank
(20:03):
you. If you're listening, I'mdoing the whole doctor evil thing with the
finger and one hundred billion million dollars. Yeah, yes, Now how big
is that? It's the fifty eighthlargest GDP of any country in the world.
Okay, eight colleges. Oh boy. Anyway, in nineteen sixty nine,
(20:26):
okay, where I was alive andKevin was alive, I don't think
you were born yet, Jason,I was negative ten. Okay, that's
what I thought. Okay, Soin nineteen sixty nine, our federal budget
was one hundred and eighty three billion. And since Jason did a hand thing,
I'll give you the Nixon thinks,since he was president doing the peace
(20:48):
sides. Yes, yeah, thesenumbers brought to you by the Richard Nixon
school of accounting. Those of youover the age of fifty might get that
joke. Okay, my generation's loston. Yeah. So that's how big
they're endowment situation is. The IVYLeague has been about regular season champions You
(21:15):
can go on the IVY League Athleticwebsite and go all the way back to
the first year they had wrestling asan IVY League nineteen fifty six, and
it has the dual meet standings.I remember recently when Princeton defeated Cornell and
snapped their seventeen year old on theIVY League title, and how big that
(21:36):
was that's really not that big inany other conference to say who's the dual
meet champion. Okay, Now,the IVY Leagues did not have a basketball
tournament until twenty seventeen. They werethe last Division I conference not to do
it. And it's still only fourmen's teams, four women's teams, and
(21:59):
they're at the same city, sametime, same weekend. They obviously can't
blame the same time because of abasketball court size, and they just started
their baseball tournament in twenty three.We learned long ago in episode ten with
our realignment episode, okay, thatonly one conference in the last ten years,
Division one that has any wrestling teamin it has not had a realignment,
(22:23):
and we know from what we justsaid that's the IVY League. In
episode ten, Okay, as youcan see here on the slide, Jason
put together a really nice show thatwas back in June of twenty twenty two,
and it was the potential changes,and Jason did mention the six IVY
(22:44):
League splitting up and perhaps the Patriot, etc. And what we do.
Okay, I want to explain thisto people about because I'm a big fan
of dual meets. As I knowmy two cohost are in our spots of
our show. Mike Moore year isI used to coach at William and Mary.
(23:06):
In a three year period, wehad two total home EIWA dual meets.
Okay, this is why something thatcan happen with the IVY leagues doing
what they do already and the Easterns. Okay, the new EIWA. Just
(23:29):
to put this in perspective, theFurthest West school is Bucknell, the Furthest
Newer schools Binghamton, The Furthest Southis the Naval Academy, and the Furthest
East is Sacred Heart in Connecticut.The Furthest road trip would be Binghamton to
Navy two hundred and ninety six miles. The EIWA could really have a meaningful
(23:52):
dual meet, Caesar, because wehaven't done that before, especially compared to
the ACC which has got a threethousand mile yeah road trip radius. Yes,
Staff is going to get frequent flyermiles. Okay. Now going back
to the IVY League. Okay,as we said, the IVY League is
(24:15):
more of a dual meet or whateverthat you might call it, specific sports,
rimming, meat, hockey game whatever. Okay, of the fourteen the
IVY league's men's sponsor sixteen sports,fourteen of them are IVY only than wrestling
and hockey are in a different conference. Also, the school's perst sport of
(24:38):
the fourteen men's sports that are IVYonly is seven point four. In other
words, they almost all have allthe sports. Wrestling and hockey is only
six point zero. Other sports thatthe IVYS have that are non IVY sponsored
is only two point three to three. So what we're learning there by these
(25:00):
numbers is if it's an IVY onlyand an IVY sponsored, we are more
likely to have more IVY League teams. Just so you know, there's sixteen
sports, like we just said sponsoredby men and seventeen by women. Okay,
(25:21):
one thing to jump in here actuallytalking about the hockey side of things,
because as people know now that that'sI work in the world of college
hockey at least at a weird schoolin terms of how that conference makeup is.
Because in that conference, which isunlike the IVY, there is a
Power five with Arizona State, there'stwo mid major p fives or Mid Major
(25:42):
fbs is with Miami and Western Michigan. You've got Division two schools Saint Cloud
and Minnesota, Duluth. You havea Division III school in Colorado College,
so that's not everybody in Omaha nonfootball D one, Denver non football D
one. So the IVY is theexact opposite of the college hockey world.
Now, this move actually got collegehockey's media talking because, much like US,
(26:06):
realignment has been a topic in collegehockey because there's only a handful of
conferences. There's sixty four D oneschools playing it, or sixty four schools
that play Division one hockey, forexample, because you've got the Clarkson's,
the Saint Lawrence's that are Division threeschools, the Rits that are playing up
because there is no Division two.This got the hockey community talking. And
again, like our wrestling fans,they're very similar where they're looking at it
(26:29):
from a hockey lens. We're lookingat things from a wrestling lens. Well,
the points, well, they wouldnever leave the ECAC, which is
where there's twelve teams in that conference. So if an IVY split would create
two six team qualifiers, it wouldbe an instant automatic qualifier like we have
in wrestling. But the hockey positionwas in Mike McMahon, who writes for
College Hockeynews dot Com brought this up. He goes, hey, hockey fans
(26:52):
don't think this couldn't happen. Wrestlingis breaking up one hundred and nineteen years
of tradition, so you think hockeyis not you knowwithstanding, and then in
some other talks, you know Pennin Columbia don't have hockey, whereas we
know that Dartmouth and Yale don't havewrestling. And another interesting point that I
heard from a source on this isthat the presidents typically that don't have wrestling
(27:12):
don't vote on wrestling topics. Thisone was eight to zero, So you
have presidents from schools that don't havewrestling voting on a wrestling move, which
is like to your point, Glenn'slike, is this the potential because wrestling
is a lot cheaper to start.I know that there's a number at one
of the two Ivy League schools sayingeighty five million dollars to start men's and
(27:33):
women's ice hockey, and you canprobably figure out what school that is by
process of elimination. So a lotcheaper to start a wrestling program, so
we may have a leg up onmen's women's ice hockey at those schools that
don't have it. But this issomething that the ice hockey community is watching
very closely to see what's going tohappen because does that leave them as the
only sport as the outlier. Sothe alignment of schools has two sports really
(27:57):
looking at what wrestling did here obviouslyus in wrestling, and then men's and
women's ice hockey you're looking at itvery closely too. So that was an
interesting side note having that world thatyou know, covering or not really covering,
but being involved in the college hockeyworld. Now that they were talking
about us going what's this going tomean for us? We're so used to
that because of you know, thefootball in basketball alignment changing all. What's
(28:18):
this mean for us? Now?Now there's another sport that looked at us
to be like, wait a minute, wrestling did it? Could could this
be good for us? And wehave the same type of conversations in wrestling
like, well, how are wegoing to qualify? This is two week
conferences? We never do it.Guess what it's moving and we'll see what
happens. I'm not sure how hockeywould move on this, but wrestling definitely
doing it does create them as thelast outlier. Yeah, thank you for
(28:41):
that, Jason. And has Jasonjust said, of course, Dartmouth and
Yale are the last two teams inthe IVY League with al wrestling. Okay,
Now, Dartmouth and Yale both we'rein the IWA. You can see
there on the screen. Yeah,when they were in it. Yale has
(29:03):
a forty two billion dollar endowment bythemselves, the dartmou thousand and eight billion.
They can afford it. And innineteen oh three, Yale and Colombia
had the first ever dual meet incollege wrestling. Okay, so Yale has
some history of the sport. Youalso have IVY Leagues fighting over who is
the oldest program in the country becausePan wants to claim that, as does
(29:25):
Columbia. So always fun for theold IVY in fighting rivalry. Yes,
yes, okay. The IVY Leagues, as we talked about, has sixteen
men's sponsors teams sports. Excuse me. Now, Yale doesn't have wrestling,
nor does Dartmouth. Yale doesn't haverowing either, and Dartmouth doesn't have fencing.
(29:47):
This is a very interesting thing,men's We're just talking men's here,
Okay. The men's rowing is notaffiliated with the NCAA. The de facto
national championship in Division ones rowing isIntercollegie Rowing Association. So if you look
at it that way, it wouldbe more likely for Yale to start a
(30:07):
men's wrestling team than a men's rowingteam, and of course one costs a
heck of a lot more money thanthe other. Rowing's a lot more expensive.
So with the split off going here, there is a chance that Dartmouth
and Yale could start a team morelikely than if they didn't split off.
Right with the sports NCAA sports now, wrestling has two hundred and eighty five
(30:36):
total in all three divisions, rowingas fifty seven, fencing as thirty four.
That means there's five times as manywrestling teams as rowing teams and almost
eight and a half times as manywrestling as fencing teams. So if you're
an administrator at Yale or Dartmouth,you're more likely to start wrestling because of
(30:57):
that than the other sports. TheIVY leagues, and of course all the
WA schools are Division I schools.We learned previously in the show that only
four percent of all the new teamsthis century are Division one teams. Well,
(31:17):
here's a chance, guys, thewomen's sports teams in the IVY,
which have zero and the rest ofthe IWA, which only has one sacred
heart, to actually grow some ofthese schools and have more women doing this.
Okay, Now, Malcolm Forbes oncesaid the purpose of education is replace
(31:45):
an empty mind with an open one. We are trying to provide the viewers
ammunition, putting more quivers in theirmore arrows in their quiver to go and
argue the case to start these women'steams or other teams. There are you
listening Colgate and other Patriot schools?Lafayette? Okay that Lafayette is not too
(32:08):
far from Lehigh, and they playeda football game more than any other two
schools have ever played a game,so it'd be a great rivalry. Okay,
Okay, Now let's talk a littlebit about women's rowing and women's wrestling
here. How many high school women'srowers do we have? Okay, I've
(32:29):
talked in the past to the peoplein the Lehigh alumni and stuff like that,
and Leigh University. Some administrators believethat there's not enough women's wrestlers in
high school. We know there's fiftythousand plus women's high school wrestlers. Okay,
how many women's high school rowers arethere? According to the National Federation
(32:51):
of High School there's only fourteen hundredand fifty five in junior rowing. News,
Caleb, I say, if Ipronounce your name correctly, wrote Unfortunately,
there is no vair study that providesan exact number of individual high school
or collegiate rowers. Okay, Soany administrator that says we have a women's
(33:13):
rowing team or another women's wrestling teambecause there's more women's high school rowers is
making it up. Okay, Andif anything, it's quite the opposite,
because we know how many we have. Okay, now as we can see,
okay, here is there are sixtyseven hundred women's rowing athletes in the
(33:43):
nc double A one hundred and fortysix teams across all divisions. Wrestling women's
only has ninety seven announced. AndI got this approximate athlete number based on
the athletes per team and the announcedteams. So why, as you can
see, all right, there area heck of a lot more women's rowers
(34:06):
and women's wrestling yet in college.Yet there are a lot more high school
women's wrestlers. So with the IVYLeague splitting off and the Eiwa splitting off,
we can see there are nine women'srowing teams in the Patriot League nine.
(34:30):
How many women's wrestling teams zero?Okay? This now perhaps could make
it easier for the eleven remaining membersof the Eiwa to concentrate and get a
women's Eiwa that I think could helpin a lot of ways. Okay.
(34:57):
The Eiwa should not be afraid change. The great philosopher heraclet is famously set
around five hundred BC. Change isthe only consonant in life. Thewa is
a great example of this. Twentytwenty five will be the thirty first change
in the number of Eiwa teams.That means there's been a change every three
(35:20):
point nine years. Okay. Thelongest streak with the same number of teams
was thirteen years from nineteen fifty eightto nineteen seventy. Kevin, when did
you start college at William and Marynineteen sixty nine? I was going to
say, get around heraclitis. Ididn't say whether it was a AD or
(35:45):
BC. So yes, So Kevincame there in sixty nine, which means
he wrestled the sixty nine to seventyseason. That's the last time that long
streak happened. The longest streak ofa change without a change in membership is
nine years and that was nineteen twentyfive to nineteen thirty three. That predates
hazard. That's almost that's that's likewe look at the nineteen twenty five,
(36:08):
next year is twenty twenty five.We're talking, we're talking about we're bordering
on one hundred years, one hundredyears, one hundred Yeah, that's the
d ninety to one hundred years onthat. Yikes. So anybody who says
the IWA's it's horrible, it's aboutto go away, it's going to ruin
the sport. No, it's notall right now as we uh, this
(36:30):
is a I added this slide herewhere it says only four percent of all
the teams out in two thousand arefrom Division one. Put that slide in
them all in place. My apologies. Okay, wrestling has been growing mainly
from smaller private schools. Okay,that is what the Eastern and the and
(36:52):
the IVY leagues are. Let's keepthat rolling. Let's grow Division one.
Okay, Let's concentrate on making thesport better and growing the sport and not
worrying that the Ivy's left. TheIVS are going from the Eastern. But
that's not going to kill us.It can make us better, all right.
(37:17):
NCAA Division two and three lead thegrowth of men and women's wrestling.
We've learned that before. Okay,so let's concentrate on doing what we can
do and get female equivalents here andother small schools to start this. Now
that this has happened, I reallybelieve schools are more likely to start a
(37:38):
sport if they're in a conference thatthey know about and not in the conference
that they don't know about. Allright, So my final thing here is,
okay, IVY League Boomers start awomen's team. All right. Now,
with that being said, I've donedominated this conversation. I want to
(38:00):
let Jason Kevin take over here,all right. I want to go back
to the qualification numbers because that seemsto be where most people are focusing on,
and we touched on it a littlebit, but I want to look
at the comparison so what ifs.So back in my Wrestling Realignment episode,
I was preaching about the potential bidsthat the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation could have
(38:23):
if those teams were in a qualifier, taking into consideration that if there was
no auto bid for that particularly orno qualifying bid, they would get the
autobid. So in that case lastyear, I don't have it up on
screen for you, but I willexplain it. So last year, the
if you split out IVY EIWA,the EIWA would have had twenty four pre
(38:44):
allocations to the tournament, with onlyone forty nine being the weight class that
needed the auto bid, meaning theydidn't qualify anybody to get that auto allocation.
That pre allocation, the IVY Leaguewould have only had one hundred and
eighty four pounds, So we're lookingat twenty four pre allocations for the IWA,
twenty three for the IVY. Now, when you look at the at
(39:06):
large bids, they each the IIWAgot a total of nine, five of
them going to the IVY League,four of them going to the IDBA.
So each conference, if they werein existence last year, would have gotten
twenty eight bids. So we cango back and look at the slide and
see where that ranks. Well,remember you're ranking low, but you're also
like, well, there's not thatmany conferences to begin with, so if
(39:28):
you're not the Big ten or Bigtwelve, unseating them at one or two
ain't going to happen anytime soon,especially with how strong the Big ten is.
So looking at it, it's notgoing to create two bad conferences.
It's going to create two conferences offairly like funded institutions. With the exception,
I do feel like the bottom halfof the EIWA in terms of the
where they place in the tournament don'tnecessarily fit sometimes because the IWA we talk
(39:53):
about the tradition, it's the Ivy'sthe tradition. Well, lately the additions
to the i IDA. We hada slide on this earlier is when you
know Bucknell brought wrestling back there.They fit into that mold Patriot League were
in the ai WA previously, butthen it's been the dissolution of the CIA
and the Eash Region whereas you know, use Sacred Heart you know, was
(40:16):
was in the Eash Region trying toqualify. You know, when that broke
up, Gardner Webb and such wentdown to the Southern Conference. So the
additions to the EIWA have it allbeen because of it fits into the Patriot
League or IVY League schools because alot of ways. You know, Drexel
likes to align itself with the obvious. It's a good thing for recruiters.
(40:37):
Yeah, our education is here withthe ivis. Binghamton's a fantastic school,
the Service Academies, of course,but then when we get into the Sacred
Heart's still trying to establish itself asa place for academic and athletic success,
and of course they have large rostersthey're trying to bring people in. So
we've got some of the schools likeyou didn't kind of really fit. You
were just left over and we tookyou and I And that's not to be
(40:59):
I'm not trying to disparage those schools, but that's where the additions to the
IIWA have come from. Not becausethey they check all the I don't want
to say this in a snooty way, but they don't punch the snow t
ivy box. So I mean,like Long Island University and Hofstra, they
should be in a conference together,but did they need to be in a
conference with Like the Service Academies andthe ivys, they're different, They exist
(41:22):
in different spaces and they have differenttype of admission situations. They have different
type of funding one scholarship, one'snon scholarship. But also scholarship doesn't necessarily
mean they're lowly funded. So lookingat the resources. Another thing is looking
at the IVS is like, oh, it's just Cornell and everybody else.
No, you can look at thenumbers and all those bids. Yeah,
Cornell's not qualifying all ten and thenthe other five fighting over the remaining you
(41:45):
know, twenty bids. But also, I brought this up on the previous
show, is like, if youare a you know, you're say you're
Brown trying to rebuild with Jordan Lee, how are you going to get your
guys to nationals? Is it alight funded situation where you've got, okay,
we know we win the conference,you have one, maybe two matches
to get through, punch that oneupset versus trying to win four or five
(42:08):
against schools that are all over theboard, and then you've got you know,
the f and ms, the SacredHearts, the Long Islands, scratching
to get one through. So Ithink you know, this isn't about like,
oh, everybody gets a medal.This is like, well, this
is where these schools need to bealigned because equitable access to the championships is
something I've been preaching for a whileand it's something the NCAA likes, and
(42:30):
it's something these schools like. Theywant to be aligned with peer institutions,
and sometimes there are schools in thead Toba that don't. Alway, they're
not aligned with each other all theplaces, there are groups that are,
and that's why I also advocated forthe Patriot doing it. But to that
point we didn't even touch on thisabout why there's no Patriot League. There
are rules that are different between thePatriot and the EIWA. For example,
(42:51):
red shirting. You can't just redshirt at a Patriot League school. In
some cases, you have to bein the right academic program that is like
a five year program. This iswhy you've seen buck Nell, for example,
have so many of their guys withthe extra year transfer out because Okay,
well I don't have the extra yearto use. I may have had
a medical hardship, but my programwas only a four year program. You
(43:13):
know, there's no grad degree programthere or as, whereas the ivys we
know don't have graduate students allowed tocompete. I think there was a waiver
for the extra year and whatnot,but you get eight semesters in the IVY.
That's why none of the Harvard guysthat are back that wrestled the first
semester they had that semester. Butyou've got situations where you can red shirt
in a Patriot if it's a hardship, but it's not like, okay,
(43:34):
can we use it. Not allschools are on the same ground with their
other sports. So I know thatLehigh uses the red shirts quite frequently,
whereas if they're in the Patriot theymight not be as available to do that
with their athletes. So there's thepushback I know from some schools about why
the Patriot isn't going ahead with thisbecause there is a little bit more pushback
I believe from what I've heard andtalk with coaches at these respective schools and
(43:55):
administrators within the league about why thePatriot it didn't so quick to jump and
create one either. So when thathappens, then we might have to talk
about the IWA going away. Butright now, it doesn't seem like the
Patriot schools are really aligned with sayinglet's do this for the Patriot League.
So that is my little, uh, little nugget of things to consider.
(44:16):
I was thinking about just the IVYLeague, it said, and and Gorham
said it pretty well. I thinkgoing back to just being an eighteen conference
for you know, all sports.I think you know and and who knows
why Yale and whoever they are,I can't remember that Dartmouth dropped. Dartmouth
(44:43):
dropped, but maybe they come back. Maybe this is a good way for
them to come back in. Imean, they have the endownment to do
it. And you know, theIvys have always been strong in sports.
Look at them, They're back inthe eighth, teen hundreds. They've always
been part of the IVY League.Is you know, sound body, sound
(45:05):
mind, and so they really pushedsports and maybe it's a chance to get
it back. And the other anotherreason that might be, you know,
make it more easy to do.When they both dropped, there was really
no women's wrestling, and if theycould bring it back with two sports,
that might make it more palatable.So I think it's again, this is
(45:30):
a split, But I don't knowthat it's a bad thing. I don't
think it's a bad thing for oursport at all. I think we have
two conferences that are going to surviveon their own. It's not like we're
leaving two teams kind of dangling inthe wind like we have in you know,
one of the other conferences. Theyjust did some rejiggering of the membership.
(45:55):
Yeah, shot you Kevin A Jasonfor that. Okay, So going
back to the show here, Ithink that we would really be helpful,
and the Easterns are coming around alot of re married people. If we
look at this and see this asan opportunity. One door has closed,
but another door is opened. Andif we just concentrate on growing the sport,
(46:22):
obviously on the women's side, andother schools in that area that might
be helpful and have a wrestling team, it would be great. Okay,
Kevin, why don't you to wrapthis show up? Give us your Matt
Kevin notes on this. Okay,good news with Salem and West Virginia joining,
(46:42):
they're now five hundred and two ncNCAA and ni men and women's wrestling
teams. Kind of you know,disturbing to some news. The Ivys are
leaving the EIWA as of next seasonnumber three. In nineteen oh five,
the IWA became the first collegiate wrestlingconference. It started with four IVY League
(47:07):
schools Columbia, Penn Princeton, andYale, and two of them are still
in the IWA, which are youknow? They've been in the same conference
since nineteen oh five. Since twothousand and nine, the nine ives had
fifty seven percent of the NCAA bids, the Ivy's had forty three percent.
Five The IWA is primarily a privateschool league. They have fourteen private schools,
(47:30):
one state school, and two federalschools Army and Navy. IVY League
is the only NCAA D one conferencethat has has not seen realignment in the
past ten years. The IVY hasbeen consistent since its inception in nineteen fifty
four, and as we learned today, I am older than the IVY League
(47:54):
seven. Starting in the two twofour two five season, the eleven EIWA
schools will be set up nicely forduel meets, with the longest distance between
them at two ninety six and contrastthat with the ACC with a three thousand
mile distance between some of the schools. Hopefully Number eight Yale A Dartmouth will
(48:15):
reconsider wrestling as the men's varsity sportwith the move to the traditional IVY League
Number nine D one wrestling men andwomen's combined count for only four percent of
NCAA and NA wrestling this century.Here is an opportunity to increase that percentage
ten. Both new qualifying conferences arefertile grounds for growth going forward for women's
(48:39):
wrestling and men's wrestling. Thank youvery much for that, Kevin. I
hope this was a helpful thing forthe viewers for the IVY League splitting off
after this March, and you knowit is what it is. One door
closed, we have to open anotherone, guys. Okay, Now next
(49:00):
month in February, we are goingto have a show and inform the viewers
on the number of notches the topmale wrestlers have wrestled in their seasons,
the NCAA seasons through the years.We will investigate if these numbers have changed,
what it means, and how itcompares to other sports. Okay,
(49:21):
just so everybody knows, the reasonthis show will just be about men is
because we're going to go back fiftyyears and there weren't women's wrestling back then.
Okay. Now, to close outthe show, I wanted to say
thank you on behalf of my CohorstKevin Iver and Jason Bryant see you next
month, same Matt time, sameMatt channel,
Statistics. They can mean many things. It can be a batting average,
a win percentage, correlations, andstandard deviation. But numbers aren't just for
nerds. In life, decisions needdata. In wrestling decisions, projections and
hypotheticals also need data. Here onMatt Stats we take historical data, theories,
(00:28):
and statistics and apply it to theworld's oldest and greatest sport. Now
to your trio of numerical nerd balls, Glenn Gormley, Kevin Hazard, and
Jason Bryant, and welcome to theMatch Stats Show, Episode twenty eight.
Today we get to talk about realignmentagain. Oh goodie, on board with
(00:51):
us today as always the Grand Poobaof wrestling Kevin Hazard and our resident statistician
Glenn Gormley, two gentlemen who havespent considerable time in around the conference we
are going to be talking about today. The EIWA and the IVY is the
split that has been the topic ofdiscussion amongst Alts, especially the Eastern fans,
and what goes along with it,the tradition, the histories. We're
(01:11):
going to dive into that today,and speaking of tradition in history, before
we get into the topic, I'mcoming off a weekend back home in my
literally my old stomping grounds of theseven five seven Hampton, Virginia. You
know, one mile basically like twominutes over from where I went to high
school in Pecoson. I grew upin Newport News and Pecosa. Kevin,
you taught in Newport News and coachdown there. So you know about the
(01:36):
history of who started the Virginia Duels. Granted they weren't in existence when you
were at Warwick High School, butyou know that area, the John Graham,
you know, the mccormicks. They'veall really come together and run this
tournament for for forty four years,forty three years, forty four years.
We had the cancelation in twenty twentyone. But you know, when we
talk about a lot of innovations thathave come out of wrestling, Virginia Dules
(01:59):
is one of them. Oh yeah, the Virginia Duels was really I mean
it's the forerunner of the National Duels. I mean at one time that was
the if you with a good dualmeet team in college, you were going
there. And the high school level, a lot of really really good high
school teams have been through national rankteams. Yeah, and Glenn. You
(02:23):
know William and Mary right there.They were involved in the first several duels
before, of course the program wasdisbanded. But that used to be an
area where the elite high school kidsthat had a chance to wrestle on the
mats in front of the college teams. And now that you know, you
know, recruiting via the Internet haschanged things a little bit. Now we've
got a sixteen team small college division. I was talking to Jeff Bedard,
(02:45):
the head coach at Reinhart, oneof the new programs down in Georgia,
and he says, you know,I couldn't afford to go out to Iowa
when they shifted him from Louisville toIowa. And he goes, I came
up here and I got a recruitingtrip out of it. So a lot
of those small colleges are taking advantageof the opportunity to their school name out
in front of the high school kids. And a lot of the kids in
those divisions are probably a division two, divisions three nai level that say,
(03:07):
hey, let's look at those opportunitiesthat they may have even known existed because
the schools have only been around alot of them for anywhere from five to
ten years, except the Appredi School, which has been around since the Grand
Puba had hair. That is anumber of decades. Yes, yeah,
I was actually on the way youmarried team when the tournaments started out,
(03:28):
and then of course was the assistantcoacher where you married for a few years
and that was like one of thebig highlights of our year. If we
got invited to the Virginia Duels,we really thought a lot of it.
Hats off to the Grahams and themccormicks and everybody there from p WA that
started that. Yep, it's Iget to go home. It's like Christmas
for me. I know that.Of course, media media, local media,
(03:50):
Hampton Roads Wrestling guru Franklopoli has beenHe whipped the votes, as we
say, he had all three majorstations there, three, ten, and
thirteen were there, so rest onTV and of course dude Bruce Raider showed
up. He's retired from Wavy.Bruce Raider was there watching his you know,
his kids wrestled, so he's I'msitting there talking to Bruce, like,
Bruce, when'd you come eight?You want to go seventy four?
(04:11):
Because he's got to got that voicewhere you know, Hey, everybody,
Bruce Rainer Hamfter, what's up withthe Redskins? You know back when they
were called that. So Bruce andI got to talk for a bit,
and you know, always said localnews media, so you know, Frank
for example, has always gotten theTV stations out there. So it's the
first time I've been down since twentybecause twenty twenty one we were canceled.
Twenty twenty two, I got COVIDtwenty twenty three out of home hockey series
(04:34):
up there. But good to beback in the old stomping grounds. Don't
think I heard my real name atall over the course of the three days
four days I was down there.We'll just move on from that. But
Glenn, talk to us today aboutwhat why what is the impetus for today's
show. When one door closes,another opens. I've heard that a lot
through my life and the mistakes thatwe make as kids and relationships that end
(04:57):
and relationships that bloom. But nowwe've got it in a wrestling sense.
Yes, now we have a wrestlingsense. Jason, thank you for the
introduction there, as some of yourviewers might know and stuff like that.
Kevin and I both went to WilliamMary and Jason grew up right down the
road from US. Okay, Soas soon as the IVY leagues the word
came out that they were splitting intwenty twenty five to leave the iwa I
(05:20):
got texts from a bunch of willYou Mary alumni guys that I coached,
who some of them thought the skywas falling in blah blah blah, but
they wanted to learn about this more. So I thought this was a great
opportunity to do this show on thisokay. And what Jason said that when
one door closes, another one opens, a famous quote by Alexander Graham Bell,
(05:41):
who really didn't do much for theVirginia Duels or anything like that,
but he had a lot to dowith that with world history. Okay,
so what he has to know atwhat he has done though, is he
you know, he invented the lightbulb or phone. So we've had John
Graham once said that he never hadKylie Flower ear, and still he started
making st and making the calls toget people come to the Virginia Duels.
(06:02):
And speaking of phones, it's likea number. Yep, yeah, it
feel like a number. So that'sour little theme song for this show.
I feel like a number of theold Bob Seeker song. Okay, and
then of course we also think aboutprobably the most famous song ever with numbers
in It is eight six seven fivethree oh nine. Everyone our age knows
(06:23):
that phone number. I'm just gladthat it's not my number. It's Danny's
glass in Yorktown and Hampton, Virginia, so speak keeping tying it back into
the seven five seven. Yes.Yes, So the opinions expressed on this
show do not necessarily reflect opinions ofthe NWCA, nor necessarily do Kevin,
Glenn and Jason all agree on everyopinion either on this show, and I'm
(06:47):
using the one that does the powerpoints, or sometimes my opinion comes louder
than the other ones, but thatdoesn't mean I have the only opinion on
this show. Okay, Matt Statsis at numbers show. Okay. We
do get to get to opinions eventually, but it starts out with facts.
And I want to thank again doctorBobby Powell as we call him Boogs and
(07:10):
a random text he sent me.I realized I didn't express this clearly enough.
Okay, So, like we justsaid, Matt Stats resolves around stats.
Okay, now what we do everymonth to start the show. One
question I get all the time iswell, how many teams are there now?
(07:32):
Okay, So, as you cansee on the slide on the thing,
as of one four twenty four,and I checked today, it's still
the same number, there's five hundredand two men and women's wrestling teams in
the NCAA and NAIA. And incase you're wondering, there's more Division two
men's teams than ever. Okay,so blow up your spot a little bit.
(07:57):
I do believe. We did havea new and added last week week
Salem in West Virginia, Yes,is bringing back their swimming programs and adding
men's wrestling. So it's another Divisiontwo school in West Virginia that's going to
be on board. Place I don'tbelieve is every second. Yeah, no,
I have to. I'll have toverify. I actually didn't look that
up when I added it to theroster of ads, but we'll have to
(08:20):
go check on that. But yeah, as we move forward, Okay,
that's a good, huge time.As we move forward, thank you.
Okay, the IVY League is leavingthe iwas after this season. Okay,
this is huge news. Okay.I've always been a fan of the IWA
growing up as a kid in Philly. Of course, the IWSLA CoA right
up to Vade in Bethlehem, thatwas, to me, was everything.
(08:43):
So I wanted to dig deep intothis with Kevin and Jason and come up
with some numbers to inform the viewerswhat this really means. And I try
to do this as unbiasedly as possibledespite being an the IWA fan. Okay.
One of the big stories, aswe see on slide ten here is
(09:03):
nine excuse me, is all thecollege sports realignments, nil coach prime,
little scouting, all this stuff we'veheard about. But this is a basic
show. It's about what happens whenthe six IVY League schools leave the easterns.
Okay, now the IVY League isleaving. What ramifications does this have
(09:30):
on us? All Right? Aswe can see, the IVY leagues thew
excuse me, used to have seventeenmembers and still will this year. All
right, then six IVY League teamswill leave. Okay, so where did
(09:50):
this all start? Okay, thisall started in nineteen oh five. It
was teams that are currently IVY leagues. The Ivy League didn't exist in nineteen
oh five. They go back.They're not even quite as old as Kevin
Hazard the Ivy League. They're onlynineteen fifty four, okay. So there
were four schools that started this.They were Ivy League, but we now
(10:11):
know as Ivy League schools, okay. And then it grew into different schools,
mainly of course in the Eastern area. Now how many different schools have
there been in the Eastern history?Well, of course having the all time
data compiler in the history of theirsport, Jason Bryant, I can ask
(10:37):
him any questions and he'll get itto me right away. And as you
can see, okay, there anold time. There have been thirty three
different schools in the Eiwa. Okay. I still got my way Mary attire
on today and I'm bummed out thatwe don't have a team and we're not
in the easterns Okay. There's seventeento Princeton today. Burn the boats,
(11:01):
so burn the ship. So Idid wear Princeton in regards to the topic
today, and I thought about it, do I I've had a shirt Prinston
fly flying back here. We gota Prince flag flying back there. Makes
sense, right, and the daddyof them all had on yeah yeah,
yeah, motif yeah my ensemble.Yes. Okay. Now a quick point.
(11:28):
Of the seventeen current ei w Ateams, only one has a women's
team. That's of course, SacredHeart. Of the all time thirty three
ei w A teams, only twohave ever had a team Sacred Heart,
as we mentioned, and East Stroudsburghas a women's team all right, now,
Okay, Stroudsburg is no longer inthe Easterns. They dropped the Division
(11:52):
two is the reason they left.And Sacred Heart, of course is still
in it. We will see themin Arch when we go up there.
And of course one of William Mary'sgreats, Terry Cheney, is getting inducted
to the e i w A Hallof Fame. Now the e i w
A. Sometimes we think things haven'tchanged, but how consistent has the e
(12:18):
i w A being. And here'swhat I like to tell my William and
Mary teammates kids I coach all myfellow alumni Kevin Hawsard included when I was
coaching at the i i w A. There's was a long long time ago
in the eighties. There's only fourteams in that ei w A left in
the i w A after the ivysleave, LEI, F and M and
(12:41):
the two academies. That's a littlemind boggling, guys. So what what
we have on the slide slide onit's not a lot, it's mind boggling.
It's it's a lot mind boggling,but a lot. What we've got
left is it's actually not a lotin terms of it's a lot of changes,
(13:03):
not a lot of the similarities withteams after this correct. Now,
as you can see on the screenhere, THEIWA after this march. Okay,
those will be the eleven teams remaining, and it also has on that
slide whether they're private or public andthe main conference they're in now, of
(13:24):
course, EFNEM is a Division threeteam, so they're not in a Division
I conference for anything but wrestling.Okay, you can see there that there's
a big Patriot representation there. There'sfive Patriots schools there. Okay, we'll
get back to that in a littlebit. Okay. Now, the next
(13:46):
thing, of course, is theother six schools that are leaving the IVY
leagues. They're all IVY legs,and you can see on that slide both
Yale and Dartmouth do not have teamsnow because they dropped, but at one
time they are in the IVS now. The slide you can see now on
the show is the eleven of ourfourteen dearly departed EIWA friends, okay,
(14:13):
And it's really everything from a bigathletic school like we are Penn State,
to a small Division III Wilkes,you know, to a small school Springfield
really are something of everything. Andit does interestingly have Boston University and Colgate
who are Patriot schools. Okay now, and then to that point when bu
(14:39):
when the CAA disintegrated and Boston Universitywas joining the Patriot League, it was
like, is the Patriot going tosponsor wrestling because they're the sixth they would
be the sixth school. And sureenough they dropped the program after one year
in the ADWA, and it waslike, really, you now have this
conference, could have officially sanctioned itlike the IVY did without actually having a
(15:00):
championship, which of course would havehad me beating the realignment drum much quicker.
But think about again the stability andhow these athletic directors will use like
well, we don't sponsor it asa sport. Well, the Ivy's for
year sponsored wrestling didn't have an officialautomatic qualifying championship. The Patriot could have
done the same thing, but nowBU had to take that new balance money
and start some other sports. Andyeah, still not happy about that one
(15:24):
either. Well, I know anotherschool that's in the CIA that should have
never dropped. Yeah, we won'tgo there either. That's that school in
Williamsburg. Okay. So the nextquestion that a lot of my fellow will
you Marry people and other people fromaround the country asking me, what's going
to happen. The conference is goingto be horrible. It won't be enough.
(15:46):
He i w is Okay. JasonBryant has put together this slide here
and it shows if we eliminate twentytwenty one because the Ivy's in F and
M did not wrestle that year tothe circumstance, So if we eliminate that
year, going back to two thousandand nine, which was the start of
the new allocation era, okay,there's been four hundred and twenty four bids
(16:11):
that were from the EIWA schools thatwere non IVY Okay. Then as we
see on the slide about this withivy's, there were three hundred and twenty
seven of the same thing, ofcourse, not counting twenty to twenty one
because the IVS had zero. Sowhat does this mean as a percentage wise?
(16:32):
Okay? And as we can see, fifty seven percent or EIWA non
ivs or what we'll call like thenew EIWA and then forty three percent ivs.
Okay. Now where does that aligneveryone? Or some people are going
to say, well, it's goingto be horrible. Well, as you
(16:52):
can see what Jason has on thescreen here, it has the old rank
with the IWA third behind only theBig ten of the Big twelve, and
where they will be ranked based onthe arithmetic mean on the number of bids,
the new EIWA AD and the IVYat Okay, the new EIWA will
(17:15):
be fourth behind the ACC. Therethen the MAC than the ivy's. The
ivy's based on that number will stillhave more than the PAC twelve. Okay,
with the same beams for at leastthis year, only because we all
know it's happening Stanford. Stanford's shiftingcoasts basically, yeah, yeah, exactly,
(17:40):
it's the Old Coast conference sound notthe Atlantic Coast right now, I
think it's the It's also not thecraziest because there is a Division III conference
called the Coast to Coast Conference.It doesn't have wrestling, but Christopher Newport
University in Newport News, Virginia isin the same conference with UC Santa Cruz.
Yes, the banana Slugs. Ifyou've seen pulp fiction or if you're
(18:02):
a mascot nerd like I am,so, yes, California and Virginia can
be in the same conference. Ohwait, it's already happened in Division three,
which is where really it doesn't happen. You don't really see that type
of geographic spans in Division three,but that is the outlier. And I
felt like I needed to get UCSanta Cruz banana Slugs in the show somehow.
(18:23):
Yes, with the captains, okay, And that's also I have to
ask you, do you have abanana slug shirt? You have to have.
They don't have wrestling, so no, good for you. That's kind
of one of my prerequisites. Theexception is I do have a William and
Mary wrestling shirt. Good, thankyou, Jason. And that's the same
thing with the Division one Double,a non scholarship conference. The Pioneer.
(18:48):
You know where Jacksonville and you versusSan Diego in the same conference of why
nerds. It's crazy, Okay.So to give us a little bit of
big picture in the IWA in theOkay, like we said, there's seventeen
schools in there right now. Fourteenare private only ones, a state school
Bighamton, and then of course thetwo federal schools, Army and Navy.
(19:11):
Okay. A little history on theIvy League. It was formed in nineteen
fifty four. It's always had thesame eight schools. I love that about
the Ivy League. They stick withwhat they are. They're all geographically in
the same place. It has sevenof the nine oldest schools in the country,
(19:37):
okay. The only two that alsoolder William Marry the second oldest,
and Rutgers. Okay. The IvyLeagues are private, small, high academic,
high endowment school The total endowment forthe eight Ivy League schools is one
hundred and eighty eight billion. Okay, yes, yes, yes, thank
(20:03):
you. If you're listening, I'mdoing the whole doctor evil thing with the
finger and one hundred billion million dollars. Yeah, yes, Now how big
is that? It's the fifty eighthlargest GDP of any country in the world.
Okay, eight colleges. Oh boy. Anyway, in nineteen sixty nine,
(20:26):
okay, where I was alive andKevin was alive, I don't think
you were born yet, Jason,I was negative ten. Okay, that's
what I thought. Okay, Soin nineteen sixty nine, our federal budget
was one hundred and eighty three billion. And since Jason did a hand thing,
I'll give you the Nixon thinks,since he was president doing the peace
(20:48):
sides. Yes, yeah, thesenumbers brought to you by the Richard Nixon
school of accounting. Those of youover the age of fifty might get that
joke. Okay, my generation's loston. Yeah. So that's how big
they're endowment situation is. The IVYLeague has been about regular season champions You
(21:15):
can go on the IVY League Athleticwebsite and go all the way back to
the first year they had wrestling asan IVY League nineteen fifty six, and
it has the dual meet standings.I remember recently when Princeton defeated Cornell and
snapped their seventeen year old on theIVY League title, and how big that
(21:36):
was that's really not that big inany other conference to say who's the dual
meet champion. Okay, Now,the IVY Leagues did not have a basketball
tournament until twenty seventeen. They werethe last Division I conference not to do
it. And it's still only fourmen's teams, four women's teams, and
(21:59):
they're at the same city, sametime, same weekend. They obviously can't
blame the same time because of abasketball court size, and they just started
their baseball tournament in twenty three.We learned long ago in episode ten with
our realignment episode, okay, thatonly one conference in the last ten years,
Division one that has any wrestling teamin it has not had a realignment,
(22:23):
and we know from what we justsaid that's the IVY League. In
episode ten, Okay, as youcan see here on the slide, Jason
put together a really nice show thatwas back in June of twenty twenty two,
and it was the potential changes,and Jason did mention the six IVY
(22:44):
League splitting up and perhaps the Patriot, etc. And what we do.
Okay, I want to explain thisto people about because I'm a big fan
of dual meets. As I knowmy two cohost are in our spots of
our show. Mike Moore year isI used to coach at William and Mary.
(23:06):
In a three year period, wehad two total home EIWA dual meets.
Okay, this is why something thatcan happen with the IVY leagues doing
what they do already and the Easterns. Okay, the new EIWA. Just
(23:29):
to put this in perspective, theFurthest West school is Bucknell, the Furthest
Newer schools Binghamton, The Furthest Southis the Naval Academy, and the Furthest
East is Sacred Heart in Connecticut.The Furthest road trip would be Binghamton to
Navy two hundred and ninety six miles. The EIWA could really have a meaningful
(23:52):
dual meet, Caesar, because wehaven't done that before, especially compared to
the ACC which has got a threethousand mile yeah road trip radius. Yes,
Staff is going to get frequent flyermiles. Okay. Now going back
to the IVY League. Okay,as we said, the IVY League is
(24:15):
more of a dual meet or whateverthat you might call it, specific sports,
rimming, meat, hockey game whatever. Okay, of the fourteen the
IVY league's men's sponsor sixteen sports,fourteen of them are IVY only than wrestling
and hockey are in a different conference. Also, the school's perst sport of
(24:38):
the fourteen men's sports that are IVYonly is seven point four. In other
words, they almost all have allthe sports. Wrestling and hockey is only
six point zero. Other sports thatthe IVYS have that are non IVY sponsored
is only two point three to three. So what we're learning there by these
(25:00):
numbers is if it's an IVY onlyand an IVY sponsored, we are more
likely to have more IVY League teams. Just so you know, there's sixteen
sports, like we just said sponsoredby men and seventeen by women. Okay,
(25:21):
one thing to jump in here actuallytalking about the hockey side of things,
because as people know now that that'sI work in the world of college
hockey at least at a weird schoolin terms of how that conference makeup is.
Because in that conference, which isunlike the IVY, there is a
Power five with Arizona State, there'stwo mid major p fives or Mid Major
(25:42):
fbs is with Miami and Western Michigan. You've got Division two schools Saint Cloud
and Minnesota, Duluth. You havea Division III school in Colorado College,
so that's not everybody in Omaha nonfootball D one, Denver non football D
one. So the IVY is theexact opposite of the college hockey world.
Now, this move actually got collegehockey's media talking because, much like US,
(26:06):
realignment has been a topic in collegehockey because there's only a handful of
conferences. There's sixty four D oneschools playing it, or sixty four schools
that play Division one hockey, forexample, because you've got the Clarkson's,
the Saint Lawrence's that are Division threeschools, the Rits that are playing up
because there is no Division two.This got the hockey community talking. And
again, like our wrestling fans,they're very similar where they're looking at it
(26:29):
from a hockey lens. We're lookingat things from a wrestling lens. Well,
the points, well, they wouldnever leave the ECAC, which is
where there's twelve teams in that conference. So if an IVY split would create
two six team qualifiers, it wouldbe an instant automatic qualifier like we have
in wrestling. But the hockey positionwas in Mike McMahon, who writes for
College Hockeynews dot Com brought this up. He goes, hey, hockey fans
(26:52):
don't think this couldn't happen. Wrestlingis breaking up one hundred and nineteen years
of tradition, so you think hockeyis not you knowwithstanding, and then in
some other talks, you know Pennin Columbia don't have hockey, whereas we
know that Dartmouth and Yale don't havewrestling. And another interesting point that I
heard from a source on this isthat the presidents typically that don't have wrestling
(27:12):
don't vote on wrestling topics. Thisone was eight to zero, So you
have presidents from schools that don't havewrestling voting on a wrestling move, which
is like to your point, Glenn'slike, is this the potential because wrestling
is a lot cheaper to start.I know that there's a number at one
of the two Ivy League schools sayingeighty five million dollars to start men's and
(27:33):
women's ice hockey, and you canprobably figure out what school that is by
process of elimination. So a lotcheaper to start a wrestling program, so
we may have a leg up onmen's women's ice hockey at those schools that
don't have it. But this issomething that the ice hockey community is watching
very closely to see what's going tohappen because does that leave them as the
only sport as the outlier. Sothe alignment of schools has two sports really
(27:57):
looking at what wrestling did here obviouslyus in wrestling, and then men's and
women's ice hockey you're looking at itvery closely too. So that was an
interesting side note having that world thatyou know, covering or not really covering,
but being involved in the college hockeyworld. Now that they were talking
about us going what's this going tomean for us? We're so used to
that because of you know, thefootball in basketball alignment changing all. What's
(28:18):
this mean for us? Now?Now there's another sport that looked at us
to be like, wait a minute, wrestling did it? Could could this
be good for us? And wehave the same type of conversations in wrestling
like, well, how are wegoing to qualify? This is two week
conferences? We never do it.Guess what it's moving and we'll see what
happens. I'm not sure how hockeywould move on this, but wrestling definitely
doing it does create them as thelast outlier. Yeah, thank you for
(28:41):
that, Jason. And has Jasonjust said, of course, Dartmouth and
Yale are the last two teams inthe IVY League with al wrestling. Okay,
Now, Dartmouth and Yale both we'rein the IWA. You can see
there on the screen. Yeah,when they were in it. Yale has
(29:03):
a forty two billion dollar endowment bythemselves, the dartmou thousand and eight billion.
They can afford it. And innineteen oh three, Yale and Colombia
had the first ever dual meet incollege wrestling. Okay, so Yale has
some history of the sport. Youalso have IVY Leagues fighting over who is
the oldest program in the country becausePan wants to claim that, as does
(29:25):
Columbia. So always fun for theold IVY in fighting rivalry. Yes,
yes, okay. The IVY Leagues, as we talked about, has sixteen
men's sponsors teams sports. Excuse me. Now, Yale doesn't have wrestling,
nor does Dartmouth. Yale doesn't haverowing either, and Dartmouth doesn't have fencing.
(29:47):
This is a very interesting thing,men's We're just talking men's here,
Okay. The men's rowing is notaffiliated with the NCAA. The de facto
national championship in Division ones rowing isIntercollegie Rowing Association. So if you look
at it that way, it wouldbe more likely for Yale to start a
(30:07):
men's wrestling team than a men's rowingteam, and of course one costs a
heck of a lot more money thanthe other. Rowing's a lot more expensive.
So with the split off going here, there is a chance that Dartmouth
and Yale could start a team morelikely than if they didn't split off.
Right with the sports NCAA sports now, wrestling has two hundred and eighty five
(30:36):
total in all three divisions, rowingas fifty seven, fencing as thirty four.
That means there's five times as manywrestling teams as rowing teams and almost
eight and a half times as manywrestling as fencing teams. So if you're
an administrator at Yale or Dartmouth,you're more likely to start wrestling because of
(30:57):
that than the other sports. TheIVY leagues, and of course all the
WA schools are Division I schools.We learned previously in the show that only
four percent of all the new teamsthis century are Division one teams. Well,
(31:17):
here's a chance, guys, thewomen's sports teams in the IVY,
which have zero and the rest ofthe IWA, which only has one sacred
heart, to actually grow some ofthese schools and have more women doing this.
Okay, Now, Malcolm Forbes oncesaid the purpose of education is replace
(31:45):
an empty mind with an open one. We are trying to provide the viewers
ammunition, putting more quivers in theirmore arrows in their quiver to go and
argue the case to start these women'steams or other teams. There are you
listening Colgate and other Patriot schools?Lafayette? Okay that Lafayette is not too
(32:08):
far from Lehigh, and they playeda football game more than any other two
schools have ever played a game,so it'd be a great rivalry. Okay,
Okay, Now let's talk a littlebit about women's rowing and women's wrestling
here. How many high school women'srowers do we have? Okay, I've
(32:29):
talked in the past to the peoplein the Lehigh alumni and stuff like that,
and Leigh University. Some administrators believethat there's not enough women's wrestlers in
high school. We know there's fiftythousand plus women's high school wrestlers. Okay,
how many women's high school rowers arethere? According to the National Federation
(32:51):
of High School there's only fourteen hundredand fifty five in junior rowing. News,
Caleb, I say, if Ipronounce your name correctly, wrote Unfortunately,
there is no vair study that providesan exact number of individual high school
or collegiate rowers. Okay, Soany administrator that says we have a women's
(33:13):
rowing team or another women's wrestling teambecause there's more women's high school rowers is
making it up. Okay, Andif anything, it's quite the opposite,
because we know how many we have. Okay, now as we can see,
okay, here is there are sixtyseven hundred women's rowing athletes in the
(33:43):
nc double A one hundred and fortysix teams across all divisions. Wrestling women's
only has ninety seven announced. AndI got this approximate athlete number based on
the athletes per team and the announcedteams. So why, as you can
see, all right, there area heck of a lot more women's rowers
(34:06):
and women's wrestling yet in college.Yet there are a lot more high school
women's wrestlers. So with the IVYLeague splitting off and the Eiwa splitting off,
we can see there are nine women'srowing teams in the Patriot League nine.
(34:30):
How many women's wrestling teams zero?Okay? This now perhaps could make
it easier for the eleven remaining membersof the Eiwa to concentrate and get a
women's Eiwa that I think could helpin a lot of ways. Okay.
(34:57):
The Eiwa should not be afraid change. The great philosopher heraclet is famously set
around five hundred BC. Change isthe only consonant in life. Thewa is
a great example of this. Twentytwenty five will be the thirty first change
in the number of Eiwa teams.That means there's been a change every three
(35:20):
point nine years. Okay. Thelongest streak with the same number of teams
was thirteen years from nineteen fifty eightto nineteen seventy. Kevin, when did
you start college at William and Marynineteen sixty nine? I was going to
say, get around heraclitis. Ididn't say whether it was a AD or
(35:45):
BC. So yes, So Kevincame there in sixty nine, which means
he wrestled the sixty nine to seventyseason. That's the last time that long
streak happened. The longest streak ofa change without a change in membership is
nine years and that was nineteen twentyfive to nineteen thirty three. That predates
hazard. That's almost that's that's likewe look at the nineteen twenty five,
(36:08):
next year is twenty twenty five.We're talking, we're talking about we're bordering
on one hundred years, one hundredyears, one hundred Yeah, that's the
d ninety to one hundred years onthat. Yikes. So anybody who says
the IWA's it's horrible, it's aboutto go away, it's going to ruin
the sport. No, it's notall right now as we uh, this
(36:30):
is a I added this slide herewhere it says only four percent of all
the teams out in two thousand arefrom Division one. Put that slide in
them all in place. My apologies. Okay, wrestling has been growing mainly
from smaller private schools. Okay,that is what the Eastern and the and
(36:52):
the IVY leagues are. Let's keepthat rolling. Let's grow Division one.
Okay, Let's concentrate on making thesport better and growing the sport and not
worrying that the Ivy's left. TheIVS are going from the Eastern. But
that's not going to kill us.It can make us better, all right.
(37:17):
NCAA Division two and three lead thegrowth of men and women's wrestling.
We've learned that before. Okay,so let's concentrate on doing what we can
do and get female equivalents here andother small schools to start this. Now
that this has happened, I reallybelieve schools are more likely to start a
(37:38):
sport if they're in a conference thatthey know about and not in the conference
that they don't know about. Allright, So my final thing here is,
okay, IVY League Boomers start awomen's team. All right. Now,
with that being said, I've donedominated this conversation. I want to
(38:00):
let Jason Kevin take over here,all right. I want to go back
to the qualification numbers because that seemsto be where most people are focusing on,
and we touched on it a littlebit, but I want to look
at the comparison so what ifs.So back in my Wrestling Realignment episode,
I was preaching about the potential bidsthat the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation could have
(38:23):
if those teams were in a qualifier, taking into consideration that if there was
no auto bid for that particularly orno qualifying bid, they would get the
autobid. So in that case lastyear, I don't have it up on
screen for you, but I willexplain it. So last year, the
if you split out IVY EIWA,the EIWA would have had twenty four pre
(38:44):
allocations to the tournament, with onlyone forty nine being the weight class that
needed the auto bid, meaning theydidn't qualify anybody to get that auto allocation.
That pre allocation, the IVY Leaguewould have only had one hundred and
eighty four pounds, So we're lookingat twenty four pre allocations for the IWA,
twenty three for the IVY. Now, when you look at the at
(39:06):
large bids, they each the IIWAgot a total of nine, five of
them going to the IVY League,four of them going to the IDBA.
So each conference, if they werein existence last year, would have gotten
twenty eight bids. So we cango back and look at the slide and
see where that ranks. Well,remember you're ranking low, but you're also
like, well, there's not thatmany conferences to begin with, so if
(39:28):
you're not the Big ten or Bigtwelve, unseating them at one or two
ain't going to happen anytime soon,especially with how strong the Big ten is.
So looking at it, it's notgoing to create two bad conferences.
It's going to create two conferences offairly like funded institutions. With the exception,
I do feel like the bottom halfof the EIWA in terms of the
where they place in the tournament don'tnecessarily fit sometimes because the IWA we talk
(39:53):
about the tradition, it's the Ivy'sthe tradition. Well, lately the additions
to the i IDA. We hada slide on this earlier is when you
know Bucknell brought wrestling back there.They fit into that mold Patriot League were
in the ai WA previously, butthen it's been the dissolution of the CIA
and the Eash Region whereas you know, use Sacred Heart you know, was
(40:16):
was in the Eash Region trying toqualify. You know, when that broke
up, Gardner Webb and such wentdown to the Southern Conference. So the
additions to the EIWA have it allbeen because of it fits into the Patriot
League or IVY League schools because alot of ways. You know, Drexel
likes to align itself with the obvious. It's a good thing for recruiters.
(40:37):
Yeah, our education is here withthe ivis. Binghamton's a fantastic school,
the Service Academies, of course,but then when we get into the Sacred
Heart's still trying to establish itself asa place for academic and athletic success,
and of course they have large rostersthey're trying to bring people in. So
we've got some of the schools likeyou didn't kind of really fit. You
were just left over and we tookyou and I And that's not to be
(40:59):
I'm not trying to disparage those schools, but that's where the additions to the
IIWA have come from. Not becausethey they check all the I don't want
to say this in a snooty way, but they don't punch the snow t
ivy box. So I mean,like Long Island University and Hofstra, they
should be in a conference together,but did they need to be in a
conference with Like the Service Academies andthe ivys, they're different, They exist
(41:22):
in different spaces and they have differenttype of admission situations. They have different
type of funding one scholarship, one'snon scholarship. But also scholarship doesn't necessarily
mean they're lowly funded. So lookingat the resources. Another thing is looking
at the IVS is like, oh, it's just Cornell and everybody else.
No, you can look at thenumbers and all those bids. Yeah,
Cornell's not qualifying all ten and thenthe other five fighting over the remaining you
(41:45):
know, twenty bids. But also, I brought this up on the previous
show, is like, if youare a you know, you're say you're
Brown trying to rebuild with Jordan Lee, how are you going to get your
guys to nationals? Is it alight funded situation where you've got, okay,
we know we win the conference,you have one, maybe two matches
to get through, punch that oneupset versus trying to win four or five
(42:08):
against schools that are all over theboard, and then you've got you know,
the f and ms, the SacredHearts, the Long Islands, scratching
to get one through. So Ithink you know, this isn't about like,
oh, everybody gets a medal.This is like, well, this
is where these schools need to bealigned because equitable access to the championships is
something I've been preaching for a whileand it's something the NCAA likes, and
(42:30):
it's something these schools like. Theywant to be aligned with peer institutions,
and sometimes there are schools in thead Toba that don't. Alway, they're
not aligned with each other all theplaces, there are groups that are,
and that's why I also advocated forthe Patriot doing it. But to that
point we didn't even touch on thisabout why there's no Patriot League. There
are rules that are different between thePatriot and the EIWA. For example,
(42:51):
red shirting. You can't just redshirt at a Patriot League school. In
some cases, you have to bein the right academic program that is like
a five year program. This iswhy you've seen buck Nell, for example,
have so many of their guys withthe extra year transfer out because Okay,
well I don't have the extra yearto use. I may have had
a medical hardship, but my programwas only a four year program. You
(43:13):
know, there's no grad degree programthere or as, whereas the ivys we
know don't have graduate students allowed tocompete. I think there was a waiver
for the extra year and whatnot,but you get eight semesters in the IVY.
That's why none of the Harvard guysthat are back that wrestled the first
semester they had that semester. Butyou've got situations where you can red shirt
in a Patriot if it's a hardship, but it's not like, okay,
(43:34):
can we use it. Not allschools are on the same ground with their
other sports. So I know thatLehigh uses the red shirts quite frequently,
whereas if they're in the Patriot theymight not be as available to do that
with their athletes. So there's thepushback I know from some schools about why
the Patriot isn't going ahead with thisbecause there is a little bit more pushback
I believe from what I've heard andtalk with coaches at these respective schools and
(43:55):
administrators within the league about why thePatriot it didn't so quick to jump and
create one either. So when thathappens, then we might have to talk
about the IWA going away. Butright now, it doesn't seem like the
Patriot schools are really aligned with sayinglet's do this for the Patriot League.
So that is my little, uh, little nugget of things to consider.
(44:16):
I was thinking about just the IVYLeague, it said, and and Gorham
said it pretty well. I thinkgoing back to just being an eighteen conference
for you know, all sports.I think you know and and who knows
why Yale and whoever they are,I can't remember that Dartmouth dropped. Dartmouth
(44:43):
dropped, but maybe they come back. Maybe this is a good way for
them to come back in. Imean, they have the endownment to do
it. And you know, theIvys have always been strong in sports.
Look at them, They're back inthe eighth, teen hundreds. They've always
been part of the IVY League.Is you know, sound body, sound
(45:05):
mind, and so they really pushedsports and maybe it's a chance to get
it back. And the other anotherreason that might be, you know,
make it more easy to do.When they both dropped, there was really
no women's wrestling, and if theycould bring it back with two sports,
that might make it more palatable.So I think it's again, this is
(45:30):
a split, But I don't knowthat it's a bad thing. I don't
think it's a bad thing for oursport at all. I think we have
two conferences that are going to surviveon their own. It's not like we're
leaving two teams kind of dangling inthe wind like we have in you know,
one of the other conferences. Theyjust did some rejiggering of the membership.
(45:55):
Yeah, shot you Kevin A Jasonfor that. Okay, So going
back to the show here, Ithink that we would really be helpful,
and the Easterns are coming around alot of re married people. If we
look at this and see this asan opportunity. One door has closed,
but another door is opened. Andif we just concentrate on growing the sport,
(46:22):
obviously on the women's side, andother schools in that area that might
be helpful and have a wrestling team, it would be great. Okay,
Kevin, why don't you to wrapthis show up? Give us your Matt
Kevin notes on this. Okay,good news with Salem and West Virginia joining,
(46:42):
they're now five hundred and two ncNCAA and ni men and women's wrestling
teams. Kind of you know,disturbing to some news. The Ivys are
leaving the EIWA as of next seasonnumber three. In nineteen oh five,
the IWA became the first collegiate wrestlingconference. It started with four IVY League
(47:07):
schools Columbia, Penn Princeton, andYale, and two of them are still
in the IWA, which are youknow? They've been in the same conference
since nineteen oh five. Since twothousand and nine, the nine ives had
fifty seven percent of the NCAA bids, the Ivy's had forty three percent.
Five The IWA is primarily a privateschool league. They have fourteen private schools,
(47:30):
one state school, and two federalschools Army and Navy. IVY League
is the only NCAA D one conferencethat has has not seen realignment in the
past ten years. The IVY hasbeen consistent since its inception in nineteen fifty
four, and as we learned today, I am older than the IVY League
(47:54):
seven. Starting in the two twofour two five season, the eleven EIWA
schools will be set up nicely forduel meets, with the longest distance between
them at two ninety six and contrastthat with the ACC with a three thousand
mile distance between some of the schools. Hopefully Number eight Yale A Dartmouth will
(48:15):
reconsider wrestling as the men's varsity sportwith the move to the traditional IVY League
Number nine D one wrestling men andwomen's combined count for only four percent of
NCAA and NA wrestling this century.Here is an opportunity to increase that percentage
ten. Both new qualifying conferences arefertile grounds for growth going forward for women's
(48:39):
wrestling and men's wrestling. Thank youvery much for that, Kevin. I
hope this was a helpful thing forthe viewers for the IVY League splitting off
after this March, and you knowit is what it is. One door
closed, we have to open anotherone, guys. Okay, Now next
(49:00):
month in February, we are goingto have a show and inform the viewers
on the number of notches the topmale wrestlers have wrestled in their seasons,
the NCAA seasons through the years.We will investigate if these numbers have changed,
what it means, and how itcompares to other sports. Okay,
(49:21):
just so everybody knows, the reasonthis show will just be about men is
because we're going to go back fiftyyears and there weren't women's wrestling back then.
Okay. Now, to close outthe show, I wanted to say
thank you on behalf of my CohorstKevin Iver and Jason Bryant see you next
month, same Matt time, sameMatt channel,
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