On A Clear Day You Can See College Athletics (Part 3 of 3) – Mat Stats 47

In this three-part series, MatStats does a business study using stats and financial data to help the viewers understand the drastic changes in college sports. It is so confusing, it is tough to understand the business of college sports in 2025. MatStats investigates how we got here, the financials of college athletic departments, and who is making money from this. Hopefully MatStats has educated the viewers enough to provide us with suggestions for a long-term sustainability of college wrestling (mainly NCAA D1).
 
Slideshow for Episode 47: https://www.mattalkonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/slideshow47.pdf




About Mat Stats
Welcome to the NWCA’s latest venture to help our favorite sport. Glenn Gormley, Jason Bryant and Kevin Hazard outline their effort to bring statistical analysis to wrestling. Mat Stats is the NWCA’s attempt to bring wrestling up to speed with so many other sports by incorporating stats. It is the same sport, the wrestlers are just older and better.
 
Mat Stats by the NWCA is a monthly podcast by the National Wrestling Coaches Association Apple Podcasts | Spotify | iHeartRadio | Podcast Addict | Castbox | RSS

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Statistics. They can mean many things. It can be a
batting average, a win percentage, correlations, and standard deviation. But
numbers aren't just for nerds. In life, decisions need data.
In wrestling decisions, projections and hypotheticals also need data. Here

(00:24):
on matt Stats, we take historical data, theories, and statistics
and apply it to the world's oldest and greatest sport.
Now to your trio of numerical nerd balls, Glenn Gormley,
Kevin Hazard, and Jason Bryant.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
And welcome back to the match Dad Show. Along with
Glenn Gormley and Kevin Hazard, I'm Jason Bryant, the Moneyball
of Wrestling. Today episode forty seven, we finish up our
three part series. On a clear day you can see
college athletics. As we set this up for mid September,
we are coming off two episodes. The first episode we
told you about Revenues and Expenses, gave you a backstory

(01:04):
on Division one. Revenues and Expenses told you about crap
and we mean cleverly rigged accounting practices, which has become
my new favorite four letter acronym. Thank you to Glenn
for that. It's one that's been around forever. Well, actually,
I want to touch on that in a moment because
we've got college football starting up Episode two house the

(01:25):
House versus NCAA and the nil and revenue sharing and
things of that nature. We went deep dive into that.
Today we're going to get into some more basically what's
left over, the fallout, what's next, next steps, game plans,
and a lot of other things that letting you know
who the players are behind these settlements and such, including

(01:45):
what we've got new committees, we've got new players that
we may not commonly hear in the world of college athletics.
Before we get rolling, as we record this a little
bit before I leave for the World Championships for release
here in mid September, college football started, and again I
say this with you know, because again football is one
of the sports that's really kind of in the catalyst
for a lot of these discussions that we have on

(02:07):
this show. I love college football, but I hate college
football at the same time, doesn't stop me from sitting
down here, re repurposing the speakeasy, taking the bar out
and making it more of a lounge, having the having
the quad box up, having two screens over here, I
watch an insane amount of college football on Saturdays. Glenn,
Rocky Top apparently had to beat up on the poor

(02:28):
week sisters to get that first w So, uh, you know,
first weekend of of the Pigs fu, full weekend of
the Pig Skin. We saw some good some good games.
Now we in the week two, we saw some good games.
And it's uh, it's always crazy, you know, just it's
college football's done's nuts.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah, you know, since you brought that up. I mean,
we're obviously the biggest show on sports ever Matt stops
but right after US as ESPN College Game Day, and
that's going to be on Rocky Top this weekend. So
I'm looking forward to It's going to be a good time.
I'm and you'll hear my prediction right here. We are
going to beat the dogs on Rocky Top this Saturday.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah. So by the time this shows out, the uh,
the episode will have passed. So this could be a
freezing cold take uh if things don't go your way. Also,
what's also might need to might need to fish that
goalpost out of the river, by the way, from a
couple of years ago after Yeah, I want to say this.
The reason I bring this up is cleverly rigged accounting practices,

(03:31):
and there there are there's a couple of things that
always kind of rubbed me. You know how I get
fired up when we talk about drop programs and things
like that. Well, a couple of years ago, that school
in Yipsilane dropped wrestling, and it was right after a
Sedarian Perry was an All American, Uh you know, coach
David Bullyard really had brought Eastern Michigan to a place
back to respectability, really solid in the MAC, really contending,

(03:55):
uh for for the that you know, in that that
mid major vein again, I don't like, really like the
term major, but had really brought Eastern into a respectable situation,
solid duel meet team and their ad. After they dropped
the program scout whether we refused to answer any any
media inquiries from me and from the wrestling media basically
went radio silent to us. Basically, Nope, it's it. I

(04:17):
had had a professor, an accounting professor on from Eastern
Michigan talking about that move and other moves, and he
always called it funny money, fuzzy mass. So he was
right there in line with the cleverly rigged accounting practices
and now they have this gray field that they call
the Factory. It looks like an ash tray on television,
by the way, So yes, I am going to throw

(04:37):
a you out a lot of shade at a school
that does not have wrestling. So guess what happens to
Eastern Michigan this week? Guys? They lose to FCS Long
Island University. So the reason you won they have wrestling
and they have hockey. So I'm rooting for them twice
and uh yeah, and they were I think if you look,
I'm not a betting guy. I'm really not, but I

(04:58):
think the way they were a the money line was
like plus nine to sixty. It was like it was
a they were a heavy, heavy underdog on the road
at the Factory, as I called the ashtray, and l
Iu beats Eastern and I could not help it. I
just clicked at I quote tweeted it from the College

(05:19):
Football the FCS fan accounts. I was like, at Scott
our Weather be couldn't resist. Sorry, how's that investment going
for you? You know, people park in Yipsilana to go to
Michigan football games. Anyway, Shade Thrown show goes on Are
we ready to start, gentlemen, Yes, we are, all right.
Let's no more bar well, I can't say there's no

(05:41):
more barbes at schools that dropped wrestling on this show,
because that's a common theme. Anyway, moving forward, we've got
part three right here on the screen again Christopher Lloyd
from Oh Great Scott. We're moving through, So Glenn take
us away with our table of contents and what we've
got in this episode. And again before actually before I
pitched to Glenn. As always, if you're you're watching this,

(06:05):
you know you've got it on screen. If you're listening
to this on the matt Talk podcast network or through
NBC Online your favorite podcatcher of choice, the show notes
this slideshow available at Mattico online dot com or NTOBCA
online dot com right there in your podcast or click
the link. We advise you not to do it while driving,
mowing the lawn, perhaps watching your favorite football game on

(06:25):
Saturday and then waiting for wrestling season, or watching the
World Championships as they go on, as you're watching this currently,
as we record before. But yeah, there's a lot of
ways to consume it. But it's all the show notes
are there, including the in this episode, Glenn, Okay, in.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
This episode, it's like Jason said, it's a quick table
of contents. If you're looking, if you've heard the show
and you want to go back and get a better
grip of the table, you can just look at it. There,
what slide it's on? Okay, Ah, why is Matt Stats here?
Matt Status is here at the request to Mike Mooyer,
the executive director of the NWCA, he needed a library

(07:03):
and somebody with some statistical background, and he looked all
around that he found us through. Okay, so that's why
Matt Status is here. The opinions expressed on this show
do not necessarily reflect any policies or opinions of the NWCA,
nor do Gorbe Briant Hazard always agree with each other.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Although Chocolate that when I throw shade at somebody right
off the start of the show. So yes, yes, this
is not a representation of what the NWCA thinks. This
is just just just this guy right here, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
And if anybody, if anybody wants to associate to the
Georgia Bulldogs on this show, I'm open to that.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Okay, they were I believe the first Domino in the
SEC back in the late seventies, if I do recall
my time, Actually.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Jason, Georgia was the last team to drop, which eliminated
SEC wrestling.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
We have fought.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's the domino that fell that. Yes, the Alabama, you know, Georgia, Alabama.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
I'm in Florida, Dropton. My senior year of.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
High school, there was Tennessee was the last standout less
holdout rather so.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
So that's true. So anyway, Matt's Status is a show
based on numbers and stats and analysis. It starts with facts,
not opinions. Of course, sometimes we do have some opinions
that are based on the stats. Now, for all the
people that are me and Kevin's age, you're older, okay,
if you are under sixty years old. There are more

(08:36):
ncuble A men's teams today than there were when you
graduated college. That's how much the sport is coming back,
you know. And hot's off Tomarrier and every one in
the NWCA and everyone that's helped put that together. It's
incredible now that we have two hundred and eight nine

(08:57):
nc double A men's teams alo, So that's great to hear.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
Okay, all right, we got this is like Jason said
early This is our third in a three part series
about what's going on in college wrestling. So why did
we call it a clear day you can see college sports?
And how about we have a quick preview on the

(09:22):
new topic for this episode.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Certainly the reason we called on the clear day you
can See College Sports? When I was a grad school
there was a famous book by Jay Patrick Wright which
was based on information he got from the famous John DeLorean.
That's why the Delorian cars there in the beginning of
the show, And it was basically how confusing general motors

(09:45):
was because they were so big. When I started doing
some research on the NCAA and all this stuff, nobody
knew what the heck was going on. Okay, So that's
where that comes from. This episode is and this series
is the financial future of college athletics. Guys. To put
it simply, gormally put down his headgear and put on

(10:09):
his cap and gown as NBA cap and gown. This
show is being looked at as a businessman, a business person,
see what's going on college sports seems to be in
the glory days, but we really don't know what's going
on until we look under the hoods.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
All right, So you know I said a couple of
slides ago that this is the third Can we just
get a quick review of parts one or two of
this series?

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yes, certainly. Episode forty five, which was part one, was
based on the revenues, expenses and profits when most cases
losses across the NCAA D one athletic departments. Of course,
those were only for public schools because private schools do
not release them. So we got to see a situation

(10:57):
here where you might see a big SCC or Big
ten game on football on TV and a lot of
people watching it, but that doesn't mean everything's going greater
those athletic departments. Part two of this series investigated the
house versus nil nc double A settlement addressed revenue share

(11:18):
nil roster size limits at the athletic departments for Division one.
What I've said on all three of these shows, probably
the most famous poems sports poems ever was casey at
the back. It starts out, the outlook wasn't brilliant. Okay.
In twenty three and twenty four, ncuble A college athletic departments,

(11:43):
Okay lost Division one public ones lost two hundred and
forty two million dollars total for one point zero two
million per school. This is before revenue sharing comes to
fruition because I just started a couple of weeks ago. Okay,
so it's going to be unless they change things drastically,

(12:04):
it's going to be over a billion in losses.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
So we're talking about this. But how did NCUBA College
Athletics get to this point?

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Okay? For years, the NCAA made rules that got us
into this predicament. Okay, and continue enforce the rules by
making more rules, okay. Governments, courts, colleges and organization bodies
tends to make rules that follow the mood and the
morales of the country. Okay. Things change over time, but

(12:43):
the rule books tends to get larger over time. The
NCAA rule book is so damn thick. Who has time
to read it? Okay. For decades were organizational body, the
NCAIA that passed rules that prohibited adults for making money.
We're not saying the NCUBA was an evil group that

(13:05):
just seemed to be what the morale of the country was.
We have pro teams and we have college amateur teams. Okay.
It is an odd concept to the capitalistic country, but
that's just the way it.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
Was, all Right, so too many rules. So what did
the NCUBA what seems to be the house versus NCAA
settlement answer for too many.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Rules, we'll create more rules, okay, in order to alleviate
the problem too many rules, we're creating more rules. So
my question is do we just have more wolves in
sheep's clothing here? Okay? And we've all probably heard the
joke the communism will work if the right people are
in power. Well, do we have the right people now

(13:55):
in power? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
What's All's One thing to consider is as you bring
it up, it's like we need it. Seems like there
is so much and I think we're a victim of
this too. In wrestling, is we we litigate and not
let legislate the outlier to the point where it you know,
we've created Okay, now, how can we gain the system?
Here's a rule? How can we gain it? How can

(14:21):
we exploit this? So I think that's it's not just wrestling,
but it's like, you know, it seems like anytime there's
a rule, well, let's see how we can get around it.
Let's see how we can exploit this. Oh, let's see
if we can look at the unintended consequences of this
and then make that, make that for our benefits. So again,
rules on top of rules are again, as I say, legislate.
The outlier is always where I'm like, why if if

(14:43):
it's less than one percent of it that, do we
really need a rule for that? You know?

Speaker 4 (14:47):
Anyway? Yeah, all right, So they're making more rules and
to implement these rules they're going to have to have
it seems like they've just had a just a huge
amount of people now even more involved. And how about
we just get a list of the new organizations that are,

(15:09):
you know, trying to implement these new roles caused by
House versus NC DOUBLEA.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Sure, Kevin, we now have more people than ever making
money off of student athletes, like Jason was saying, they
were legislation the outlier, which was the football quarterback, the
point guard, and the basketball team. You know, small percentage
of people like that. So what we have now, Number one,
the NC double A still has their hand in the
cookie jar. Number two, the College Sports Commission was just

(15:40):
created recently. Deloitte, a big accounting consulting firm. Lawyers have
their hand more so than ever in the cookie jar.
Agents in House personnel at colleges like compliance staff. Every answer,
it seemed to a question at the convention was asking
your compliance to Okay, number seven private equity LLCs could

(16:05):
soon be involved. Okay, The old fashioned bag man guys
were more economically efficient. This is a reference to a
person that discreetly paid a player against the NCAA rules,
and suddenly the Chick fil a bag full of money
seems like a good idea.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Glenn, I'm not gonna lie. The Chick fil a bag
of chicken always sounds like a good idea to me,
because you know I love me some Chick fil A.
Speaking of bag the term bagman has also become so
it's no longer associated with like mafioso's and like things
of that nature. Now even even food chains are getting

(16:47):
in on this. I ordered some wings from a place
called Wingstop. It's a national chain, not endorsing the show,
but their sticker they I did door dashed it because
the wife was doing something else and get I get
these wings delivered. And on it is a sticker and
it says bag secured. I'm just like everybody's just The
bag thing has just become common parlance in anything these days.

(17:10):
It's not just it's not like, oh, you know, we
don't need the bag man. We don't need the bag man.
Well guess what bag secured with my chicken wings?

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, and Jason, just real.

Speaker 4 (17:19):
Quick, Chick fil A. If you're listening, you could sponsor
our show if you'd like to. Yes, just say it.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
And Jason, that was a reference to coach Jeremy prewittt
getting fired for pretty bags full of Chick fil A money.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
So it was okay, it was Chick fil A. Okay,
because we know, we know that the issue with some
NCA rules alleged violations up in ann Arbor dealt with
a cheeseburg. A cheeseburger. The fans were flipping out over
a cheeseberg. There was more to that story than that.
Not poking, not poking the uh the fans there were
in ann Arbor. But yeah, that one was also interesting.

(17:56):
So it's always funny to get the college football take
on what happened and what doesn't happen. Anyway, tax code time.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
The fund is a tax code. Yeah, the IRS tax
code is so complicated we need many accounts and lawyers
to figure it out for the average person. All right, guys,
right after I got my MBA, I had an accountant
through my taxes. And if you can't do it very
fresh out of NBA school, basically nobody can. Okay. The

(18:23):
college sports world has created an overly complex rules and
regulation system that requires people to help us figure it out.
Less rules and less regulations would increase the chances of
college athletes making more money for their hard work. All
of this additional oversight is going to be reflected in

(18:47):
a negative way on college income statements.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
All right, So you're saying we have a we're saying
we know we're having an increase in the need for
regulatory administrations with these new changes to the finances of
college as. Can we discuss each group and how they're
involved in this increase in regulations?

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Sure, Kevin, we need to find a less expensive and
cumbersome way to ensure the long term sustainability of college athletics. Okay,
Because all these people with their hands in the cookie
jar and their hand in the Chick fil a bag, Okay,
that is money that's not going to the college athlete,
and it's certainly not money that's going to the college

(19:33):
athletic department. Okay. The apparent need for more regulatory administrations
has created a world where more groups will find a
need for their services, thus hurting the income statement of
college athletic departments. The people with their hands in the
cookie jarge are not necessarily bad people. Matt Stats is

(19:56):
just suggesting there may be an easier way to administer
through this new world.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, the term keep it simple stupid does not really apply.
That four letter acronym kiss is probably what we need
more of versus the crap that we discovered in episode
one of this series.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
Sure, all right, So our first group is the NC DOUBLEA.
How many employees they have and why did they look
with look like a certain losing case goal the way
to the Supreme Court.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Okay, the NC DOUBLEA is not for profit organization. Okay,
the NC DOUBLEA is over five hundred employees at their headquarters.
The NC DOUBLEA president Charlie Baker, made over three point
four million dollars in the first ten months of twenty
twenty three. Now, just because something's a not for profit

(20:53):
doesn't mean the administrators aren't making big money. Okay. If
the NC DOUBLEA would have simply changed their bureaucratic rules
when the inevitability of Supreme Court ruling became a parent.
Perhaps the seven hundred and seventy million dollars the attorneys
made in this house settlement could have gone directly to athletes. Now,

(21:16):
Charlie Baker has a bachelor's degree from Harvard and an
MBA from Northwestern. He's a bright man, okay, But was
he more interested in the NCAA survival and his paycheck
than the student athletes income? I don't know, guys.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Rhetorical questions abound.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
Yes, So that was the first one. But they also,
and it's kind of interesting, they've they've established a College
Sports Commission. What is it and what do they do?

Speaker 3 (21:48):
Okay, the College Sports Commission. You'll see the CSC in
a lot of this episode. It's a new oversight bureaucracy
dealing with the rev share in the NIL. We have
several of these slides that came straight from the CSC website.
All right, and I'll read it to you real quick.
You're not going to read all to you. But the

(22:08):
College Sports Commission is the organization overseeing the new system
that allows schools to share revenue directly with the student
athlete and ensure that NIL deals made with student athletes
are fair and comply with the rules. Okay, so what
we have here because we took away a rule that

(22:30):
you can't pay people, we added a whole new bureaucracy
and a bunch more rules on how you can pay
these people. Okay, So the next slide. The College Sports
Commission is separate from the NCUBA. The both completely separate entities.

(22:52):
The College Sports Commission is responsible for overseeing compliance with
new ncuba's rules, creating a connection with it.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Compliance is also such a fun word when we're talking
college athletics because it can mean a litany of things.
It's it's not just complying. It's complying with this, complying
with that, complying with this, complying with that, complying with this.
It's all ball bearings nowadays. No, it's all compliance nowadays.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
Okay, that's about we've got this and they've got all
these new rules. Does that mean the nc double A
rules have gone out the window?

Speaker 3 (23:38):
No, the nc double A is still there. I mean, guys,
they're still a book.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
That's this thick.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, on the c S websites, you
see it's like twenty eight they have some q and
as and one of the question is how all this
news just to benefits student athletes. Okay, they don't really
add answer the question. They just say student athletes have
more opportunities than ever before to financially benefit. Yes, but

(24:08):
not because of the CSC, because the Supreme Court ruled
nine to nothing. So and then the next slide is
the same thing where they non answer a question and
answer on their own thing. Okay, it states the two
point seven eight billion dollar payment for past damages, but

(24:29):
does not mention the legal fees up to seven hundred
and seventy million. Okay, that's an obvious oversight, or the
CSC is so incompetent they shouldn't be in business if
this is something they never considered. All right, then the

(24:49):
next question on the thing is how does the new
system benefit non revenue generating sports. Well, having the CSC
does it benefit it? Okay, once again, it was the
Supreme Court that ruled that the CSC didn't change you know,
the federal law and the you know on anything. Now,

(25:12):
the CSC is not being transparent with their finances. When
Kevin and I went the convention, I looked up and
found out the CSC is a for profit LLC. Why
are they not a not for profit or nonprofit whatever

(25:34):
you want to call that a not for profits? Tax
returns are public, okay, so we would be able to
look at these. So we're not going to really know
what the heck's going on at the CSC. This is
an organization that was established to ensure transparency in college

(26:00):
athletes incomes and are strict about any college trying to hide. Now, however,
the CSC is really strict about hiding their own income.
This should raise some eyebrows. Guys, who is monitoring the monitors?

Speaker 4 (26:26):
Now?

Speaker 3 (26:27):
To give us some more insight on the CSC, the
new CEO is Brian Seally. He's a Princeton bachelor's, Harvard
Law graduate. He was counsel for the US Senate. He
was assistant US Attorney. He was Executive VP of Legal

(26:47):
Operations from Major League Baseball until he resigned to become
the College Sports Commissioned President. This is taken from his
LinkedIn account. Guys, this is his resume he puts out there.
That is a damn impressive resume. Okay. He's not making

(27:08):
minimum wage guys. Okay, so everything that mister Brian Seely
is making is not going to a student athlete or
the Supreme Court ruled should be pitted right now, Just
so you guys know, as Jason to Kevino, for past experiences,

(27:31):
I did have a college bar at that college at
Williamsburg that dropped wrestling years ago. I would have never
hired one of the top guys of the Secret Service
to work security at my college bar. Okay, So the
CSC went out and found a big name, Glenn.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
This ties to interrupt your point real quick. You could
not here's the thing. You couldn't have hired legal leg
wrestlers or football players because they're not allowed to make money.
They weren't allowing you like you as a sports booth.
You're like, oh no, you couldn't have paid them a
fair waights because who determines the fairwaights. This is the

(28:12):
exact type of thing this was intended to correct. And
this is where we're at. So it's funny you bring
at working at your bar, because if you wanted to
pay athletes to work at your bar back in the day,
you couldn't, And now it's swung the complete other way.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yes, that is igonic. Jason, thank you for bringing that up,
just to give you guys. An example, the new COO
of the Collegiate Sports Commission, John Broblin, was making two
hundred and fifteen thousand dollars a year at his previous
job and a not for profit. That's how we found
out what he made because it was not for profit.

(28:49):
Now that he's working in your for profit, we won't know,
never know. If it's no one's business what employees did
the CSC make, then it should be no one's business
for the college athlete mix. Okay, the Power five Conferences
fund the CSC. They established this on April fourteenth, twenty

(29:13):
twenty five. It's hard to tell if anyone else funds
the CSC or not. Okay, this is money that could
have been distributed to college athletic departments, but it is
being used to fund administrators at the CSC.

Speaker 4 (29:29):
Can I just say something real quick there?

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (29:32):
When we were at the convention, we asked a couple
of coaches, you know what's going on with the CSC
and what are your what is your athletic department telling you?
They to the man, They all said, our administration does
not have a clue. They said, talk to the compliance
officer or talk to the instead of DOUBLEA. We went

(29:55):
to the NC double A and they said, talk to
the compliance officers. It's such a mess, absolute mess.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
On a clear day, Kevin. Okay, all right, Now, all
the Power five conferences are not for profit. We might
be able to find out and given time, how much
money they are paying the CFCID. This could be a
useful piece of information down the road. It might take
a couple of years to find it out, but it

(30:23):
could help us find out more so what's going on?

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, and in the way fiscal systems work, you know,
you know, we file this is formed oddly enough? Was
it formed tax day? Pretty close to Let me back
up real quick. So this form right before tax day,
so obviously it won't be on the twenty five bounce.
You will probably wait a full year to maybe a
year a year, like you said, a couple of years
to get an actual tangible number from these things because

(30:50):
that was for right before tax day. How convenient, you know?

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (30:57):
All right, so Power Conferences or CSC NCAA. And now
we also have Deloitte. Who is Deloitte and how are
they involved?

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Okay? Deloitte is a global professional service firm with thirty
three billion Yes, I was with a b as and
boy in revenues. Okay, we have some stuff from the
Deloitte dot com website. It's a huge company, guys that,
but people like me graduated NBA school, a lot of
people wanted to go work for a company like Deloitte.

(31:31):
It's a well respected company that has always been around
to help big companies become bigger companies and make more money.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
And I actually looked this up. I was I was
incorrect last episode when I thought I was the censor
the big four, big four accounting firms. And these are
the ones you'll see Price Waterhouse Coopers, which I had correct, Deloitt,
which I had correct, Ernst and Young is what I missed,
and KPMG is what I had correct. So those are
the ones when you hear big four in accounting, if
you're ever in in those circles, and and and you

(32:04):
know again, full disclosure, my wife used to work as
a consultant for Deloitte when we when we were fifteen
years ago. So uh, I'm not close to the situation
on this one, but I do have some experience with
with what Deloitte and Touche is their their global name,
what they are referred to and their their viewpoint. Yeah,
they're they do. They do a lot of work in
a lot of different places. So uh, they're they're you

(32:26):
don't become one of the big four in the world
if you're not good at it either.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
There and their consultants are making triple triple figures.

Speaker 5 (32:36):
An hour, not all of them, but yeah, yeah, yeah,
we're not in that industry anymore, by the way.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah, and it's ivonic guys, the Deloitte of others, because
Deloitte has always been known as a company for big
companies to go to the clean couldn't afford the lot guys.
It's it's not for Mickey Mouse companies and moment pops.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Okay, who are you a wearing Glenn? So hypothetically you
want to let's let's let's put let's let's use that
as an example for the common man here small business owners, say,
bar owner, bugman, tire shop owner, uh, you know, restauranteur.
What if they need a consultant for their business, what
type of level do they call what We'll give us

(33:26):
an example, maybe a common uh common type of vendor
or somebody they might use.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
What if we were looking for a consultant. What we
would do is we'd go over to will You Marry
Business School and we did this, uh, pretty much every
other year, and we had a four students in a
case study and they'd come over, you know and study
the green leaf and that was that was the job
they wanted. They didn't want to go work for, you know,

(33:52):
a marketing company that was you know, selling widgets. They
wanted a fun job. So that's how we would do it.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Jason, Okay, Yeah, Now Deloitte. Deloitte would have helped out
that big, that big brewing company that was across the
railroad tracks from campus, Anheuser Bush, which had a plant
and we are for a long time. So there is
a comparison for business that serves beer, business that makes beer.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yeah, we didn't. We didn't pay the kids. They were
they were getting the credit a three credit hour class
and ironically that leads us too is the ni l
Go with three hour credit course. And what I mean
by this, if you're getting an nil deal, you have
to go on this nil dot go site and get
everything approved, and it's so complicated you need a three

(34:39):
hour credit course for this. It would be more fun
to do an internship with the green Leaf than it
would be with the nil dot Com.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Okay, well, I didn't study at the green Leaf. I
did my definitely did my Shriff. You know, Wayver has
a bar called the Library. Now, by the way, I'm
not sure if it was around when you guys were there,
but yeah, I was at the library all semester.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
It was there when I was there, Jason, Oh.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Wow, Okay, I know it wasn't. It wasn't in the
Paul's green Leaf College Deli realm for me. So I
went to you guys's places. I didn't go down the
I didn't go to the library. I didn't go to
the library either.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
So anyway, guys, now it gets into this is so
complicated and stuff. There's a famous old picture and that's
the reference on slide forty. No telling what t shirt
the bars would wear today with all these new regulations.
So Brian Bosworth was not afraid of Voice's opinion. Beginning

(35:37):
in June seventh of this summer twenty twenty five, NCAA
Division I students must report third party ANDIL deals with
the total values of six hundred dollars or more. You
heard that, correct, guys, Six hundred dollars or more. So
all these have to be reported. That means somebody has

(36:00):
to evaluate them. Somebody's got to look into all this.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Okay, now this is again six hundred dollars. That brought
it up last show. How many times do people that
gig workers and stuff like that, or people get paid
five hundred ninety nine dollars in cash so it doesn't
have to get reported. So my question is, slippery slope.
We're still I think we're still gonna have Chick fil
a bags of five hundred ninety nine dollars being dropped
some places too.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Well, we're making it so Chick fil A bags. You're
back in vogue, you know, with all these rules.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Okay, you like Chick fil a anyway, moving them, moving forward,
moving on.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
So anyway. John mcavo is also famous for yona and
set us up fart. You can't be serious, okay with
this new situation. Okay, student athletes must report these nil
deals with compensation over six hundred dollars. It is so complicated. Now, guys,
you can't be serious, okay with really wanting this to

(36:57):
happen so we can deloitte to people with their hands
of the cookie jar. This is nothing more than a
huge bacuracy that will have to employ many, many people
to do this. Okay, where does the money come from
to pay these people? It sure seems in his money
that was intended for student athletes and is going to

(37:19):
a newly formed bureaucracy. This is Gormley with his business
add on. Okay, income should be between the irs and
the student athletes. It seems like this should be just
between them. For any of you guys that are too
young to remember. In nineteen ninety three, a woman by

(37:42):
the name is Zoe Baird was nominated for US Attorney
General and was sidelined with Nannygate because she didn't pay
her Social Security taxes on her nanny. You know, it
was a small amount of money she paid them. CSC
and Deloitte are not government organization is to pass laws.

(38:02):
But you're expecting an eighteen year old student athlete that
does not know the laws to know the regulations. Yet
a nominee for the US Attorney general job didn't know that,
and the one that was nominated next got sidelined too, Kimberwood,
So we're asking for an eighteen year old kid to

(38:22):
be more on the ball than two consecutive US Attorney
General's work. It's a little bit ridiculous. Guys, what's the
size of this? And this is why we needed we
need to order the auditors. As of September fourth, twenty
twenty five, the nil GO approved eight thousand, three hundred

(38:44):
nil deals. They had twenty eight thousand plus requests. This
takes a lot of man hours in money. I don't
know how long it takes them to approve each deal,
so I couldn't go through and say exactly how many
man hours. Probably they started with the fall athletes and
they'll get to the baseball last. Okay. According to the CSC,

(39:09):
you do not need to use nil GO if the
job is a traditional employment arrangement. For example, like Jason
I Kevin talked about being a doorman at the Green
Leaf and not related to a student's name, image of likeness.
But who is decide what is traditional? Why could claim
Gormley if he still was at the Green Leaf and

(39:31):
William Mary had a wrestling team, why couldn't he create
a new position that what any wrestler to qualified for nationals? Okay,
and we only.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
Use it qualified keg Wiper do go and I wipe
down the kegs. Why that's the job?

Speaker 3 (39:49):
Yep? Okay, So who's to decide all this guys? Okay,
I don't know. Okay, are we gonna have fake and
those show jobs? Perhaps?

Speaker 4 (40:01):
All right, So now we're on our fourth leg of
added you know, added layers of regulations, lawyers and agents.
You know this is all based on a lawsuit. Are
there going to be more law seats? And are now
agents now a full time part of big time collegiate sports.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
I'm going to answer this just based on listening to
any college football pop listen to Ross Dellinger from Yahoo.
Anything there is, there's always going to be lawsuits. There's
always going to be lawyers, especially now in the world
of college sports. And that's the that's that's that's the
answer to that question. We're always going to have them,
right Greg Glenn.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Yes, Jason answered Leg four and five. Lawyers and agents
are here to stay. I don't need to answer that question.
But the next thing we have as a result of this,
in Gordley's opinion, once slide forty seven you can see this.
We will see a workstop at yours strike in college
sports before too long. I'm sorry to say this, guys,

(41:05):
But we've seen it in every single sport. As a
matter of fact, when Major League Baseball went on strike
in ninety four and cancel the rest of the season,
it took cal Ripkin in the summer of ninety five
to break lou Gerrick's record, and then the long going
summer of ninety eight when McGuire and Sosa had their
home run race to really help bring fans back. Guys,

(41:27):
And we're going to see something. Don't know what sport
it is, don't know whether it's male female. It will
happen and it sucks.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
And yeah, we also had an NHL strike. We've had obviously,
there's a place about a couple of NFL strikes. We've
had a I think I think the NHL had a
striker in your seventy fifth season, you know, I mean again,
we lost it. You know, the Washington Nationals would would
the Washington Nationals have a pennant from the Expos because
that was a really good Montreal team that year. Would

(41:57):
Montreal of even would Montreal still be in Montreal if
that strike?

Speaker 3 (42:02):
They were good at ninety four? Yep?

Speaker 4 (42:04):
Sure, all right, so pile them on even higher. I mean,
look at we've got this crushing group now being piled
on and here's another layer, just in house personnel compliance staff.
With all this confusion new rules, do you think colleges
need to even add more compliance staff to their payrolls?

Speaker 3 (42:28):
Yes, Kevin, I think they will. More rules plus more
confusion equals more compliance payroll expenses. Okay, when every answer
to your question at the convention was call your compliance
director and they don't know, they're going to be going
to the assistant A D and say I don't have
the answer to this. I need more help otherwise we're

(42:49):
going to get put on probation and we're not going
to know this, that and the other thing. And yes,
it's going to be more of an expense and less
money to keep the athletic departments a flow and to
keep sports like wrestling going. And in case you were wondering,
the NCAA rule Manual is four hundred and fifty three
pages long.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
We have a reason interpreter for wrestling. We are now
gonna need a rule a rules interpreter for compliance officers.
Because it's funny, from job to job you hear a
new coach will get a job. It's like, oh, well,
we can't do that here. Well, let me call my
compliance director at X and they're gonna say this is
how we got this is how we interpreted the rule.

(43:30):
And there is precedent stacked upon precedent, so again, and
and that's the one thing. While you know, I think
we're beating up the compliance offices here a little bit,
at the same point, the compliance their job is changing
more than the like the athletes don't know what they're doing. Well,
the compliance officers, Okay, what's the new, what's the new,
what's coming down the pipe today, what's not been sued for? Okay?

(43:53):
I mean their their interpretations of what's been going on
has had to be so so crazy the last couple
of year too. You know, you kind of got a
feel for the people that got into this because they
love college spoorts and they love student athletes, and now
all they are is like, I hate the manuals. Like
you got to think about the people that really like
that have to have to put this stuff in and

(44:13):
be like, oh, this was not what I signed up for,
not things what anybody signed up for anymore.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Nuts exactly. And colleges tend not to reduce their staffs.
They have a history of growing their staffs and payroll
and not reducing them. When that school in Williamsburg, Virginia
wanted to drop wrestling, Gorb suggested to the athletic director
that we reduce or bloated unneeded administrative staff, and his

(44:42):
answer was clear, no, the athletic department is here to
pay those people, not to give the students opportunities. And
as a result, we don't have a wrestling team and
we have more than ever compliance to how the hell
is a school like William and Mary have three compliance directors?

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Okay, well, now now you need three four you didn't.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
They're going to have four before the end of the Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
It's just like I think again, to pick on Michigan
a little bit, I think their their staff is their
athletic staff is like two hundred and fifty employees. I think,
just just an athletics. It's nuts.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Sure, yep.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
Okay. Now, the probably the final crushing blow.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Of this, the doom and gloom.

Speaker 4 (45:27):
Private equity firms, you know, Gorgs, You and I talked
about it. What about the University of Kentucky and even
more for private equity getting involved in college sports, They're
going to be more LLC's and if and if, I
don't think it's an if, when this happens, this will

(45:50):
this be a sea change in college sports.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, Kevin University of Kentucky has already restructured his athletic
department into LLC, allowing for private equity money. Now, I'm
sure I don't know that Kentucky's gonna definitely go that route,
but they're in the position to go that route. And
if they do take money, two things we know for sure. Okay,

(46:16):
they're still not gonna beat the balls in football number
one and number two. Okay, Then you're gonna have outside
people calling the shots. You're gonna have people that invest
in money and want a return on their investment, and
that might include Kentucky can't drop a wrestling team because

(46:39):
they already have, but another school might drop a wrestling
team or some other team because they're saying there's no
profit in that sport. Okay, So it's a dangerous road
to go on, and you're gonna have You're gonna have
big investors calling up the coach at Kentucky when they're
getting blown out by Tennessee and football all wanted to

(47:00):
know why the hell of that quarterbacks in the gate
and this is what's going to happen. Guys.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
They're even joking about that again, going back to the
college Football podcast or they were, they were they were
joking about Dave Portnoy from you know, infamously from Barstool,
tweeting that he was going to contact so and so's
wife and get so and so pulled. I think it
was the Michigan Oklahoma game about get so and so
as the starting quarterback pulled because they're they're you know,
you're you're in game two of a guy's career and

(47:28):
you're not getting your ROI uh, that's how ridiculous the
statement is. But how ridiculous is the statement Honestly when
you think about it's like that it might have been
a joke for for engagement, but at the same point
that's kind of reality. And to the point, this also
brings me back to you know, some of these you know,
Grand Canyon University, for example, for profit school. I'm not

(47:49):
sure if they still are not, but at the time
they had brought in lacrosse that didn't work, got rid
of it, that brought wrestling, it didn't work. They don't
have to, they don't they've got shareholders that they taught to.
They don't have board of like the traditional board of governors,
board of visitors, they don't have taxpayers. And it's like, no,
what are the shareholders? Say? That's who they're they're beholden to,

(48:10):
not the students. It's it's it's who who's got their
money in the pot, not who who they service. So anyway,
another mini I could almost go soapbox there, but I'll
for for brevity's sake, I'll continue.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
So we've we've got all this new regulation, And how
about Congress? Are they going to get involved in this?
And there any indications the Congress mighting go get involved
in the fallout from the NCAA House settlement.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Okay, what I I love to say about Congress. I'm
from the government and I'm here to help. It's the
nine most terrifying words in the English language. Okay, I
have no idea what the government might do here, but
not confident that they were hot. I do know in

(49:01):
the score bill is a small part of it to
maintain at least sixteen varsity sports. Yeah, as a wrestling alumni,
do I love that idea? Yeah? But I don't know
what else is in the score bill. Okay, So I'm
not trying to say it's going to be great or
not going to be great. I know that Mike Morier

(49:21):
in six and seventeen. Other sports organizations have lobbied for
that part of it. And there's also some scuttle but
about using historical thirty percent of revenues for non revenue sports.
I'm not so sure how Congress can say what a
school could spend their money on and all that stuff. Now,

(49:44):
if Congress wants to pass one bill, I will get
behind this and campaign for this. In order for a
college to get federal funding, they must have two wrestling teams.
That is one Congress law that I am all behind. Okay,
All the others, like the first Amendment starts Congress, sho'll

(50:05):
make no law? Should have put a period after that
and going home.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
I always love this little limerick. What's the opposite of
pro con? What's the opposite of progress? Progress? Congress? But
I don't have a do I have a rim shot?
I might have a rim shot now I think about it. Yeah,
I'll throw that in there. I don't want to two

(50:32):
into the sound effect. I heard that years ago and
now now now the dad jokes thing has come in here.
But yeah and quickly, uh, some of the pushback I'll
say this, And in doing some research for this, I
talked to some people who follow the score Act pretty closely.
The pushback is, it's just like a lot of these
these laws, there's this great law, and then it's what's

(50:53):
what's shoved in underneath it that that'll probably keep it
from going. And I think that the thing is it
probably won't pass the sound. But the talk is, is
it buried in this score Act is is taking away
some of the freedoms that college athletes have. So it's
like great idea, but under here there's there's some strings attached.
So that's something we gotta we gotta pay attention to

(51:14):
on both sides. And there's gonna be and there's gonna
If there's not a Score Act, there's gonna be another one.
And there's gonna be another one, and there's gonna be
another one. Glenn, you talk about coach Tubberville, who's who's
in Congress, as well as a former old ball coach
down at an SEC school down there that you may
or may not be affiliated or know about. It's like,
you know, we're gonna have another one of these. So

(51:34):
paying attention to the score Act right now is what
we're doing again the small small sports or leaning on
that one. But again there's there's some pushback there on
other sports other parts of the world too.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
All right, all this new regulation, so I think I
think we all think we need a sustainability game plan
with all the changes. We need to be prepared for
the light at the end of the tunnel if it's
an oncoming train. And what are some of the ways
Glenn that college wrestling can prepare thisselves for these monumental

(52:09):
changes that we've discussed.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
Look, Kevin, I think we need to look at a
big picture here. And for example, technically, North Dakota State
is the NCAA Division I Football champion in twenty twenty four.
The Ohio State is not okay for the College Football
Playoff champion, but there really is not an NCUBA championship

(52:33):
on the FBS level.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
That trophy their hoisting is not the NCAA. It doesn't
say NCAA on.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
It exactly exactly. So the biggest college sport, FBS football
and the oldest sport, men's rowing, do not have an
NCUBA Championship. Men's rowing teams are not an NCAA championship sport,
but essentially all the schools with the Intercale Rowing Association

(53:02):
those teams on their athletic department's varsity team websites, just
like they were football and basketball and wrestling. Okay, So
we have the NCWA with Jim Junter, we talked about
many times on the show who I happened to be
a huge fan of and loved going to the tournament
and shreepoint in March and shut down. Me and m

(53:24):
Kevin sat down and talked for a while at the convention.
It's already well established, much like the American Collegiate Rowing
Associations established. Rowing has the IRA and the ACR end,
which is like our NCAA teams and NCWA teams. Okay,

(53:45):
it was established in nineteen ninety seven. They now have
two hundred and six college wrestling teams and Jim Junt
established this as a safe landing spot for college teams
to land after they were dropped. Now we want all
college teams to stay. We want them to be varsity sports.

(54:05):
We don't want that to decrease at all, Okay, but
we need to look at a big picture thing here
and try to come up with stuff. The NCWA is
here to help. If monetary conditions create a non sustainable
atmosphere of the nc double A, that doesn't mean there

(54:25):
can't be changes to everything.

Speaker 4 (54:27):
Kevin, all right, that's the start of a game plan.
But I think we need more. We need a complete
game plan for the long term sustainability for collegiate wrestling.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
How do we at yes, Kevin, Yeah, Kevin, match Stats
is issuing call to alarms here to ensure long serve
sustainability of college wrestling.

Speaker 6 (54:50):
Okay, in this three part series, guys, it's a financial series.
It is an NBA series wrestling. This move works, that
move doesn't work. Penn State one, blah blah blah. It
is for the big picture of everything, Guys.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
We have seen a system that has so many rules
and so many new administrators and regulators that add on
to the revshare and the NIL when colleges were in
a precarious situation to begin with. We will see cuts
down the road. We cannot be shocked if this happens.

(55:35):
We need to do whatever we can to be as
Jason used the word progress or progressive. Okay, so what
I'm telling you here is send us an email at
nwcaatt Stats at gmail dot com. Okay, Kevin and I
have also talked very quickly right before the show started

(55:57):
about maybe sending out a survey to the way Marry people.
The people we know well, you know which I know
William Mary's got three compliance directors, so we must all
be idiots. But I like to think we do have
a rocket scientist and a neurosurgeon in that group. Okay,
we could.

Speaker 4 (56:15):
Probably we could probably take that and and extend it
to anybody who would like to be involved. I think
expanding that might not be a bad idea.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Glenn, Yeah, thank you, Kevin. We might get some ideas,
but we look forward to people saying it. And as
you can see on slide sixty one, Matt Stats need
you and there's a picture Uncle Sam there pointing at you. Okay,
we're not saying that rustling was as important as when
Uncle Sam needed you to serve the military, but this

(56:43):
is damn important, guys. All right, Kevin, let's wrap us
up with keV notes.

Speaker 4 (56:50):
All right for thirteen in this episode is this is
about the financial future of college athletics. The outlook wasn't brilliant.
As shown in episode forty six and forty five and
forty six, college athletics are not in great financial shape. Two.
We now have more groups than ever taking money from

(57:12):
college athletes. Three. The NCUBA has over five hundred employees
at their headquarters. Four the College Sports Commission is a
for profit LLC. This means they don't have to release
their financials to the public. Makes it easier for the
cs to be non transparent. Doesn't make it easier, it

(57:33):
makes them non transparent. And this group is funded by
the Power five Conferences. Five. Deloittte A Global Professional Services
is administering the anil portion of the House versus NCAA settlement. Six.
Lawyers and agents now have an even greater impact on

(57:55):
college athletics. Seven. Private equity will play in increasingly greater
role in funding college athletics. Kentucky has already restructured their
athletic department into an LLC to make it more accessible
to private equity funding. Eight. College wrestling, along with seventeen
other sports, is actively loving the US Congress to try

(58:18):
and minim minimize the potential damage to college sports that
this House Versus NCAA has caused nine. All college wrestling
survival options need to be explored now before the situation
becomes critical. Perhaps, just perhaps these options should includes breaking

(58:43):
away from the NCAA if warranted, but keeping varsity stattings
and ten matts that welcomes input from the wrestling community
in short long term sustainability. You know, let us know
it NWCA Matt Stats at gmail dot com.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Thank you very much, Kevin. Alright, guys, that wraps up
this series on the on the topic of the college
finance finances. The next episode on not Stats gets into
the annual look at high school wrestling numbers. This will
be a more upbeat and positive show because we've seen

(59:24):
some exactly this, We've seen some good numbers coming. So
that show will be out Wednesday, October fifteenth, or twenty
twenty five. And Jason or Kevity have anything to say
before I close.

Speaker 4 (59:38):
No, No, I think that I think did a really
good job putting this together.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Glenn, I've said enough.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
Okay, thank you guys, and until next time, I stay
by my prediction on the beginning of the show, Tennessee
will beat Georgia this Saturday on Rocky Top. Okay, and
on behalf of my co host Jason Bryan Kevin has it.
I'm playing Gormley from Matt Stats and talk to you
next month.