TMP-Ep184 - Discovering Meaning in Awakening

In this episode of the Meaning Project podcast, Dr. Dan reflects on his recent experiences in Colorado, exploring themes of meaning, spirituality, and the human condition. He discusses insights from Mark Nepo's 'Book of Awakening' and connects them to Viktor Frankl's teachings on suffering, guilt, and death. The conversation emphasizes the importance of embracing life's challenges, finding meaning in suffering, and the role of community in personal growth.
takeaways

• The journey of life involves a cycle of creation and destruction.
• Embracing the friction of life can lead to personal growth.
• Suffering is an inherent part of the human experience.
• Finding meaning in our struggles can transform our perspective.
• Community support is vital in navigating life's challenges.
• We can change our attitude towards suffering to find peace.
• Creativity and self-expression are essential for personal fulfillment.
• Recognizing our mortality can motivate us to live fully.
• The teachings of Viktor Frankl provide valuable insights into meaning.
• We are all called to discover and create meaning in our lives.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hello, one, Welcome to the Meeting Project podcast. I'm your host,
doctor daniel A Franz, and as always, thank you for
this opportunity to bring a little meaning, purpose and resilience
to your day. For those of you watching on the
YouTube channel, you can tell by the blurred background and
the excessively heavy sweatshirt holl over whatever you might call it,

(00:44):
that I am not in the Doctor dan Meaning Project
home offices at this time. By the time this is released,
I will be back in that office seeing clients alive
from north central Indiana. But at this time, at the
time I'm recording this, I am wrapping up two weeks
of working and playing and exploring Colorado. For those of

(01:11):
you that listened to a previous podcast about my psilocybin
practicum experience, you may know that part of that experience,
part of what I saw in the mushrooms, part of
what the mushrooms hold out of my subconscious, my unconscious,
my well maybe even my conscious thought was this idea

(01:33):
that I needed to come out here and explore that
there were are opportunities to do business to help people
in different ways here in Colorado. And that's definitely what
my wife and I have been exploring for these two
weeks along with our dog Daisy. Couldn't leave her behind

(01:57):
for two weeks. I don't know. I've been telling a
lot of people this adventure has been almost like a
prolonged psychedelic journey, a two week psychedelic journey, in that
there's been a lot of experiences, a lot of thoughts,
and a lot of emotions, a lot of connections. But

(02:17):
it's going to take some time once we get back
home to really understand what all this means and what
the integration might look like. And so as I've explored
and talked to different people here and continue to do
my work with people all over the US and different
parts of the world, actually, it's been really fascinating to

(02:42):
see how different thoughts and ideas have kind of come
together in meaningful and purposeful ways. And one of those
I want to share with you today kind of the
core of today's podcast. Along with reflecting on some Franko
that I've shared with you many times, I want to
share with you something new from a kind of meditation

(03:06):
book that I've been reading. It's a book popular in
the psychedelic circles, but it's not a psychedelic book Mark
Nepo n Epo as an author, I believe this book
is over twenty years a cancer survivor who, after his
work in surviving cancer, put together a really I don't know,

(03:28):
it's just really good, spiritual but meditative, day to day
kind of book. And often there are passages from this
recited as intentions for psychedelic journeys, different prayers, different ideas
for us to put into our thought processes before or

(03:51):
even during these different kind of extra sensory journeys. And
I wanted to share one with you that I read
just the other day, just recently, that really hit me
and really related to a lot of doctor Victor Frankel's teachings,
a lot of what we talk about here on the
Meaning Project. I also shared this writing with my therapeutic

(04:20):
group from my journey in Oregon because some people are
still struggling to fully integrate their work into take the
meaning from that time and bring it into their day
to day work. So I thought this was really helpful,
but I wanted to share with you here today. So

(04:47):
this is from the Mark tenth. The great thing about
this devotional or motivational book is where some encourage you
to start on January one. This's just wherever we are,
that's where you can pick up. So I definitely recommend
Mark Neppo's Book of Awakening. So March tenth starts out
with this. The title of the March tenth entry is

(05:10):
the Creator's Cycle, so as you might guess, it has
something to do with the idea of creation and spirituality.
There's a quote from a Jibway elder from the Ajibwey tribe,
and it says this, and it's very brief and to
the point. We survive and then we die. Period. Mister

(05:34):
Neppo goes on to write this, nothing escapes the Creator's cycle.
Not plants, horses, trees, birds, or human beings. Not the
life of the mind, not the life of the heart,
not the life of the spirit. All things emerge, gather,

(05:56):
spark new life, fall apart, die, and emerge in new ways.
Each soul is a gust of God's breath, unfolding in
the great energy that surrounds us like an ever moving stream.

(06:17):
The goal is not to cheat death, but to live
in the stream with a humility and a liveness that
only an acceptance of death can release. Now, if you
might remember doctor Frankel talks about the tragic triad, pain, guilt,

(06:37):
and death, those three things none of us can escape,
and the idea that recognizing that we're going to die,
recognizing life's transitoriness, that it is brief, it is fleeting,
that we won't live forever, should motivate us, should remind
us of the gift of every day, and that we

(06:59):
should do something amazing with it. He goes on to write,
when we try to deny death, we can grow sick
from frantically chasing any challenge that will occupy our minds.
I can tell you I am so guilty of that

(07:20):
throughout my life and trying to establish a legacy, in
trying to feel like I've got to do something lasting.
I've got to write this book, I've got to record
this podcast, right or whatever it might be. That in
some ways, that is often that fear that at some
point I won't be here anymore and then I need

(07:41):
to leave something behind. But that is that frantic chasing,
chasing the challenges that will occupy our minds. He goes
on to write this, in living the other extreme, we
can grow sick from thinking only of death, from letting

(08:02):
death be all that we see that makes a sad
career of fear. And I've certainly seen that in my
office and in my work, and probably even in myself
in recognizing death, grief, loss, losing others sad. Right, there's

(08:22):
something about the human condition that we definitely want to
hold on. I want to hold on to this experience
in Colorado. I was just kind of whining to myself
as I looked outside and the sun was coming up. Man,
I want to go back out into the trails I've
been hiking to breathe the fresh pine air. But I

(08:43):
know I only have a few days left here and
there's work to be done. But the memory is still there.
And as I said, the integration, the integration of this experience,
the reflection on it is something I'll carry for a while.
So the two paragraphs are things I highlight, and this
is what I sent on to my peer group. This

(09:05):
really is beautiful in my mind, beyond all design and desire.
We survive, and like stones that are eroded by forces
that can never be seen or stopped, our reward is
the pain and wonder of bearing our inner beauty to

(09:28):
the sky what we carry deep within. If we live
honestly will inevitably be worn outwardly. The experience of living
this folly has nothing to do with removing ourselves from
the creator's cycle. Too often we struggle stubbornly in an

(09:52):
attempt to protect ourselves from the friction of being alive,
when it is precise lead that friction that works our
spirit into a seeable shem. We are more malleable than
we think, more durable and changeable than all hope. Thin

(10:15):
and fragrant pedals do not hide from the wind. They
survive to die and break ground again. Even with one life.
We shred and reroot, we break, bleed, and rearrange into

(10:35):
yet another beautiful thing that learns how to reach. Resisting
this process doubles our pain, singing our way through It
is the source of wisdom and beauty, that idea going
back to the triad, tragic triad, pain, guilt, and death.

(10:58):
As he says here, our reward is the pain and
wonder of bearing inner beauty to the sky. Life is suffering,
Life is difficult. Life is not always hiking the trails
of Colorado. Sometimes there's hard work that needs to be
done tonight. Actually I'm volunteering to go work and an

(11:20):
intensive outpatient substance abuse program with our host here, and
you know it's gonna be three hours. I could be
doing something else. I could be going to a Colorado brewery.
I could be sitting up on a trail on a
ponderosis somewhere. But that's some meaningful work, and there's meaningful
work for all of us to be doing out there,
bearing our pain and suffering, as doctor Frankle says, pain, guilt,

(11:46):
and death. By taking our suffering and turning it into achievements,
we bear that inner beauty to the sky. We show
the world who we are and what we've done. We
make the world a better place by recognizing that suffering,
by not trying to remove ourselves from the fear of deaths,
from our own suffering, but by embracing it head on.

(12:13):
I love this idea. Too often we struggle stubbornly in
an attempt to protect ourselves from the friction of being alive.
In my studies, that is right there with Frankel's new
o dynamics, the dynamics, the existential dynamics, that idea of
becoming that we know where we are today, but we

(12:36):
know there's something else for us, and we have to engage.
We have to embrace that friction of becoming. Change is
rarely easy and many of its Many of us don't
like change. We work actively to avoid change. We want
to stay in the status quo and stay where we are.

(13:01):
Sometimes adventuring out two weeks away from home can be
pretty profound, can be I don't know. I don't know
if I want to say life changing. Yet sometimes learning
about the mysteries of therapeutic psychedelics, or simply just engaging

(13:24):
and counseling or mentorship or seeking the wisdom of a
good book or podcast. Embracing that friction rather than sitting
passively watching whatever's on TV, that can truly be changing.
As NEPO says, we are more malleable than we think.

(13:46):
We are more changeable. We are more durable and changeable
than all home with the pain, guilt, and death that
we cannot escape as part of the hue In condition,
we have the opportunity to turn that pain into suffering,
or that pain into achievement. That's suffering into accomplishment. We

(14:10):
can allow guilt to change our behavior. We can take
that guilt and recognize I made a mistake. I need
to make a change. I need to make amends to somebody,
And again, like the fragrant pedals that do not hide
from the wind, we can recognize that life is brief,
that we only have a certain amount of time here,

(14:33):
and that we should cherish the time we do have
and do cool things, help others. Right, discover meaning? What
are the three ways Frankle tells us we discover meaning
our experiences in life, getting out and seeing mountains or
the oceans, spending time with cherished loved ones, taking time

(14:55):
in the morning to just sit and pet the dog,
or to read interesting things, to pray, to meditate, to grow,
to learn new things, to go see what the world
has to offer. These can all be meaningful experiences, but
then we have to do something with that. We have
to create. Part of that human condition is a full

(15:20):
and instinct the work. Right, we can find meaning in
our work, whether it's just helping somebody down the line
from us, or reaching out and helping other people in
therapeutic situations, or just in whatever situation we have, helping
somebody to grow, reach to do better. That can truly

(15:42):
be meaningful, self transcendent work. Sometimes they're called to just
create works of art, music, art, paintings, drawings. There's a
pull for all of us to express ourselves creatively, and
when we find that, whether we're good or not at it,
it can certainly be meaningful. And of course, one of

(16:05):
the things I've seen in a lot of my work
lately is the meaning of accepting where we are in life,
accepting that suffering, and choosing an attitude towards it. This
past Sunday, our host invited us to brunch at the
treatment center he works at. And it's just a local

(16:30):
substance abuse treatment center. Oh excuse me, a local substance
abuse treatment center for men here in Colorado. Nothing very fancy.
The clinical director, the head therapist every Sunday comes in

(16:52):
and makes brunch for everybody there, for the clients, the
men there, but also for their families that come in.
And I tell you what this guy cooked up some
mean shrimp and grits. I'm not usually like if I
see it in a menu, it's not something I'm gonna order,
But wow, his shrimp and grits were awesome. But what
was even more awesome was seeing these men in recovery bonding,

(17:17):
men coming back who had graduated the programs, choosing to grow.
This wasn't a place where people were court ordered to be.
This is a place where people finally reached the limit
in their life. They reached the limit to their suffering
and said I need to do something different. Please, somebody
help me. And I'm glad places like that exist out there.

(17:38):
I'm glad our host Adam does those kind of that
kind of work. I'm glad I get to do that
kind of work. And I'm happy to share that message
that when we cannot change the suffering we experienced, sometimes
it's necessary change our attitude towards it. I believe there's

(18:01):
usually a way to change that suffering. There are things
that can be done in our world today. We have
a lot of opportunities to change suffering, to grow from it.
But when we can't, we get to change our attitude.
So today's a brief one. After last week's meaningful psychedelic

(18:23):
integration with my good friend Rob, I thought, you know,
it's an opportunity. With a couple big work days left
before we pack up and leave Colorado to head back
to Indiana, I just wanted to share those ideas with you,
the idea that well, as I've shared before. We're all
called to discover meeting in our lives, and there are

(18:46):
ways to do that. If you're struggling to do that today,
I'm happy to help. There are plenty of people out
there happy to help. Contact me. You know where to
find me, Danielafranz dot com. That's d A and I
E L A f r A n z dot com.
Or once I get back to Indiana, you can start

(19:07):
looking for the Meaning Project community. Or I'll put together
a lot of these ideas, these teachings of doctor Frankel
and all so many other logo therapists out there in
a centralized location where we get to interact, be hosting
some community groups where we get to chat about these
ideas together and doing more one on work that one

(19:31):
on one work that way. So keep your eye open
the Meeting Project community. I really appreciate you. Thank you,
thank you for listening, Thank you for your continued support.
Please get out there, and if you found this podcast
meaningful or the other ones before it, or future ones
that you might listen to, please share it. My goal
here is to help more people in bigger ways, and

(19:55):
with these teachings of existential dynamics and discovering meaning, all
the great work that came from doctor Victor Frankel, help
me pass it on, and as always, thank you for
this opportunity to bring a little meaning, purpose and resilience
to your day. Take care,