April 7, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, Dr. Dan explores the intersection of mental health, community engagement, and the importance of meaningful work. He discusses his experiences with community mental health initiatives, the significance of teaching and rebuilding relationships, and the wisdom found in human history. The conversation delves into the concept of making amends and healing relationships, emphasizing the role of ketamine-assisted therapy in modern mental health practices. Dr. Dan also shares his future goals and community initiatives aimed at fostering resilience and purpose.
References in this episode:
Dr. Dan's MS Bike-a-thon Page
The Book of Awakening by Mark Nepo
Takeaways
References in this episode:
Dr. Dan's MS Bike-a-thon Page
The Book of Awakening by Mark Nepo
Takeaways
- The importance of community engagement in mental health.
- Self-care may involve serving a purpose greater than oneself.
- Making amends is crucial for healing relationships.
- Human history is filled with shared wisdom on morality and ethics.
- Ketamine-assisted therapy offers new avenues for healing.
- Teaching can be a powerful tool for rebuilding relationships.
- Creativity in work can lead to discovering meaning.
- Fear often leads to isolation and control, which can hurt others.
- Acknowledging our hurtful actions is essential for growth.
- Future initiatives aim to help more people in meaningful ways.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Hello, and welcome to the Meeting Project podcast. I'm your host,
doctor Daniel Franz, and as always, thank you for this
opportunity to bring a little bit of mental health, meaning
purpose and resilience and maybe even a little bit of
psychedelics to your day. That is a lot. Surely by
episode two hundred we'll get a little more brief with that,
or maybe not. It's interesting I think about how that
(00:44):
intro has grown since episode one or two, and there's
a reason for it, because I'm doing a lot of different,
different stuff and I was reminded of that today. Warning
it's probably one o'clock in the afternoon as I'm recording,
and I am highly caffeinated. Been in meetings since seven
(01:05):
o'clock this morning, casual meetings, social meetings, work social meetings,
but at the local coffee shop. And what I learned
today is the coffee served at a coffee shop is
not like my delicious black rifle here at home. It
packs a punch. And I'm pretty sure you know, I
even brought my own coffee mug, this nice Meeting Project
(01:26):
podcast mug. And that's not coffee in there by the way,
that's that has got to be water. Right now. I
had some wonderful meetings this morning and only had three
or four cups of their coffee, but wow, it is potent.
Met with the CEO of a local community mental health
(01:49):
center to talk about growing better therapists, evolving better therapists,
helping newly graduated therapists get better, as well as a
whole bunch of other things Cardion included. And then met
with the community navigator for the local agency. This is
(02:11):
such a fascinating line, right. So it's a community group
that receives opioid settlement funds and then gets to decide
how to use them in the community. And so this
gentleman that I met with is the community coordinator that
a is a recovery coach, so he helps people a
(02:32):
lot of people that I work with in recovery and
through my substance abuse group, but he gets to go
out and do the outreach. And we were trying to
figure out how his organization and then the organization that
I chair, which is the organization the Governor's Commission for
a Drug Free Indiana Local County Coordinating Community Coordinating Council,
(02:57):
My goodness, how we can partner together to bring in
more grant dollars to our local community that then help
other people. And that was just two of the amazing
meetings I've had today that required some caffe nation. But
I sat down yesterday. I was trying to figure out
(03:19):
late last night why I was feeling so exhausted, but
so energized, so overworked, but in a way that felt
like I was doing good works. I sat down and
I just started to go through my calendar and kind
of write a list of the what I called non
(03:40):
clinical or bonus meetings of the past four to six weeks,
probably the past two months if you factor out those
two weeks I was away working remotely in Colorado, and
at first glance, I think I think there were twenty
five additional call them coffee chats, right, non clinical chats,
(04:03):
somewhere with fellow students from the Integrative Psychiatry Institute talking
about ketamine and psychedelics, and somewhere with the with or
for the work I'm doing with again that Governor's Commission
for a Drug Free County and doing some work that
will bring the additional state and federal grant dollars to
(04:26):
this locality. And the fun work I'm telling you that
was probably quite a bit of it, coordinating with a
consulting firm that knows how to and file for federal
funding and the work that that involves, so IPI, Drug
Free County, different other agencies of the notebooks laying around
(04:51):
here somewhere, But it reminded me of what we talk
about here when it comes to logo therapy. Even though
it may be suffering, and it's not it's enjoyable, but
it's work. It's hard work. But in that hard work
is creativity, and in that creativity is the opportunity to
(05:12):
discover meaning. Now I have been reminded maybe at some
point to slow down, and ironically, I'll be having a
guest here at the Doctor Dan Farm in a couple
of weeks, I guess a fellow student from the Integrated
Psychiatry Institute is gonna kind of visit and spend a
(05:33):
couple of weeks while we talk. A couple of weeks,
just a couple of days. I was hoping for a
couple of weeks, but a couple of days that we'll
be talking about, well, how to help more people in
bigger ways with the things we are studying. So I
say that to share with you that you know, sometimes
I have to practice what I preach, what I share
(05:54):
with you, and going out there and doing meaningful work.
I know. I started the year talking about this idea
of self care, and then sometimes maybe we have self
care wrong. Maybe it's not about you know, what is it?
I believe it was the Great sitcom. Parks and Recreation
had an entire episode called Treat Yourself, and it was
(06:18):
about going out and getting pedicures and massages and spending
money on yourself to feel better. And something hit me
kind of coming into this year that maybe that's not
what it's all about. Maybe it is about what Frankly
tells us, stepping outside ourselves to serve a purpose greater
(06:40):
than ourselves. Wow. That just occurred to me because I
thought it was about work, finding creativity and meaning and work.
But no, maybe it is about doing self transcendently. As
I said, bringing money to my local area to help
with the drug problem. We're talking to CEOs and community
mental health centers about how to improve to help therapists
(07:02):
do better therapy, to help more people in bigger ways,
and whatever. All the other meetings I've been having are
that I put away so I don't bore you with them,
because what I did want to share with you today
this is interesting. This actually stems out there's some meetings
I haven't listed part of one of the enjoyable things
(07:25):
I do. I still teach, but it's not in a
big classroom setting. The school where I received my doctor at,
the Graduate Theological Foundation, believes in one to one work,
and I teach a few classes there, But lately I've
gotten a lot of students in my is it Rebuilding
(07:46):
a Meaningful Marriage class, and that class takes the work
of the Gotman Institute, which we've talked about before. It
combines it with logo therapy in rebuilding a healthier marriage,
but also there's a focus on rebuilding from infidelity in
betrayal and not just sexual infidelity, but you know, there
(08:07):
are various kinds of betrayals we've talked about, and it
was such a beautiful moment. As I said, it specializes
in one to one learning, and so the way I
do that, my students write a paper every week over
the course material that I've selected, and then we meet
and we talk about that paper and their findings and
(08:29):
their coursework and how they're integrating it into the work
that they do, and my student this week is in
Canada and we're talking, so it was just beautiful, a
great student. I mean, the student only halfway through the class,
but it's pretty easy to assume she will receive an A. Now.
(08:50):
I know my teacher friends might object at already assigning
a grade at midterms, but just in our interactions and
the conversation I have, it is amazing the depth of
knowledge Charity has and how this course really truly serves
as an adjunct to what she already knows. Because when
we were talking about the course material from Gotman and Frankel,
(09:17):
and we incorporate a little bit of doctor Elizabeth Lucas,
one of Frankel students, she all of us Sarden started
pulling in such I think by the end we had
eight other resources brought into this kind of work. And
one of the things we discussed that it truly reminded
(09:38):
me over the course of human history, good ideas, healthy ideas,
ideas of morality and ethics and good behavior and how
to treat each other and grow society resonate throughout history,
whether it's Gotman or Frankel, Peterson or Quinas or Saint
(10:03):
Pope John Paul the second or different ancient writings, the Bible,
the Koran, the Torah as. That was Joseph Campbell. I'm
reading again Man with a Thousand Faces, and he talks
about the mono myth of human history. How a lot
of these all less into our story, our story of humanity.
(10:29):
And that was kind of that idea that all of
these ideas kind of come together in a monolithic, mon individual,
single myth that is the human story. Sorry, I had
to pause for some water. With caffeine comes dehydration, and
(10:49):
with talking while caffeinated, it was quite a bit of dehydration.
But interestingly, yesterday, as I was planning for the podcast,
I'm like, oh, I had this great thing from my
class at IPI Integrated Psychiatric Institute, this the Holistic Integrative
Treatment Plan. I was like, I can't wait to share
that on the podcast. And I was all prepared to
(11:12):
do that, and then something hit me this morning and
my morning readings, because of course, you know, getting up
early to get to the coffee shop, I was going
to wake up relatively early, and then a therapy intern,
puppy dog Daisy, decided that I was gonna wake up
a little bit earlier just early enough that I wasn't
(11:33):
going to be able to go back to bed, so
she decided I had a lot of reading to do today, apparently,
and one of the things I found I just had
to share with you once again. I believe i've shared
before Mark Nepo the Book of Awakening. I will put
a link in the show notes. But today's reading just
(11:57):
hit me because interestingly, we were talking about this parts
of these concepts yesterday in my men's substance abuse group.
But it also relates closely to Frankel and therefore Gotman
and some of the other things I've been talking about.
(12:18):
So if you don't mind, I will read from you
today's reading from Nepo's Book of Awakening. The title is
making Amends, which is so fitting in so many ways
for so many people every day, but especially this time
(12:40):
of year. So he writes a little bit of a
poem at the beginning before the pros, but he says,
there is hurt and there is love. They roll us
through the days like a turtle down a hill. All
we can do when on our back is roll one
(13:00):
more time and head for the sea. He goes on
to write stones Loosened by Storms, cover paths and uprooted trees,
break newly formed nests, and crisis after crisis throws us
into each other. It is inevitable stay alive and you
(13:23):
will be hurt, and you will also others. Now, the
start of that paragraph is particularly fascinating throughout the Midwest
for all of us affected by the horrible storms in
the past week. I hope you and your families are safe.
I know. I look around our yard and see a
(13:43):
cacophony of downed branches and three completely felled trees. That well,
I believe I'll be doing some logging this weekend, a
profession I am not proficient or effective at, but I
will certainly give a try. So this idea comes right
out of Frankel's tragic triad, right, pain guilts and death guilt,
(14:07):
you know, pain suffering. We will all suffer, and we
will all hurt other people. And that's a part of
what we talked about in men's group yesterday. You know,
it is inevitable stay alive and you will be hurt,
and you'll also hurt others, And of course that relates
to making amends. Excuse me, I'm sorry for taking so
(14:31):
many pauses, but the water is so necessary today. NEPO
goes on to write, unintended hurt is as common as
branches snapped in the wind. But it is the unacknowledged
hurt that becomes a wound. Just as our only recourse
(14:54):
to falling down it's getting up. Our only recourse to
hurting others is to acknowledge what we've done and clean
up the mess. This is known as making amends, a
simple yet enormous act of integrity that restores trust. And trust,
(15:19):
after all, is the soil that holds the roots of humankind.
Without it, life on earth begins to eat itself dry.
What causes us to hurt each others? Sorry, accidentally turned
the page stars out of scrolling. What causes us to
(15:39):
hurt each other? It's hard to say, but it seems
that being human, we are subject to many ancient and
powerful opposites found in life. Wow, that just hit me again.
We are subject to many ancient and powerful opposites in life.
The old yin yang, the order in the chaos, the
(16:02):
light and the dark, the shadow and the self. Among
those that impact us constantly are light and dark, yes
and no, and especially fear and peace. For as it
is out of fear that we feel the need to
(16:22):
isolate ourselves or to control others. And it is often
in the act of elevating ourselves that we hurt one another,
not to mention ourselves when not afraid. When in a
moment of peace, we feel quite a different need. We
(16:45):
feel a sudden requirement to connect and belong to other
living things. And it is then, in the act of
true embrace that we love one another. Isn't that beautiful? Right?
When we are peaceful, we can be connected and we
can be loving. But when we are fearful, how we
(17:07):
lash out at ourselves and others? I think Nepa really
really strikes it well. There, he continues still as no
one in daily life is exempt from both sleeping and waking.
No one can escape feeling both fear and peace, and
so no one can escape being both hurtful and loving.
(17:33):
But the world is kept whole by those who can
overcome their fear. However briefly, the blood of life itself
is kept vital by those who can simply and bravely
repair their separations time and time again. Even if our
(17:53):
awareness of being hurtful comes years after delivering the hurt,
the smallest word or gesture, Owning what we've done can
reopen the heart. And I have to say from my
experience as a clinician that idea is critical. Even if
(18:16):
our awareness of being hurtful comes years after delivering the hurt,
the smallest word or gesture owning what we've done can
reopen the heart. I've seen that time and again. Children
who are reminded of a wound, or adults who are
reminded of of childhood wounds, simply by being validated by
(18:37):
a parent can heal. I've seen this in several cases lately.
Parents that cannot own mistakes keep the wound going. But
then there are times when the wound needs to be
(18:58):
discussed because I think sometimes times maybe sometimes we're two
wounded too offended, or maybe we assess when it comes
to parenting that our parents did something wrong when in
actuality they did the best of their ability, but maybe
it wasn't enough at that time, and that re well,
(19:21):
that requires some pretty important, honest conversation that can be difficult,
but can be also an opportunity to grow. So it's important.
Sometimes we don't recognize that we've been hurtful, but I
think sometimes when we feel hurt the other person may
(19:43):
not even know, may not even have the ability to,
and that can be a very powerful discussion of making amends.
Nepo goes on, and I love this book. I'm so
glad I finally picked up a copy later in the year.
He offers kind of a meditation after each each day's writing.
(20:06):
So this recommendation, sit quietly and bring to mind and
heart an act of isolation or control that you invoked
which hurt another And I think it's important to recognize
sometimes when we hurt other people through isolation or an
attempt to control, we don't recognize it. We don't recognize right,
(20:26):
like we all know, like you know, people who control
or that's not healthy. But sometimes isolating ourselves is Most
of the time, isolating ourselves isn't healthy either, And both
of those actions can be hurtful. But that doesn't mean
our intent was to hurt. Sometimes it is right. Sometimes
(20:46):
we are so wounded ourselves we try to hurt other people,
and that certainly requires amends. But even when we don't
recognize it, even when we are intent wasn't to hurt,
we can definitely certainly validate the other person's experience and
make amends in a healthy kind of way. And sometimes, look,
(21:07):
I'll be honest. Sometimes that takes professional intervention. Sometimes that
means emailing or calling up doctor Dan being like, hey,
I need some help with this. Okay, I can help.
There are many good therapists out there that can certainly
help with that. Sit quietly and bring to mind and
heart and act of isolation or control that you invoked
with another. Breathe deeply and try to see the fear
(21:32):
that prompted your need to isolate our control. That's our
opportunity to take ownership, to take responsibility. Breathe slowly, and
I'll offer. Breathe deeply. Breathe slowly and deeply, and in
your heart make amends that is on the fear that
prompted you, the act of isolation or control that arose
from it, and the hurt that resulted, just for yourself.
(21:57):
Express your amends in a letter or card addressed to
the person you hurt. That doesn't mean you have to
send it, doesn't mean you have to share it with anybody.
You can share it with your therapist, with a mentor
or presapastor or minister, with your spouse, or just with yourself.
Right express those amends enter your day and let your
(22:21):
heart tell you whether to mail the amends or not. Right.
Sometimes just the act of writing, we take thought and
put it, we make it real right and by that,
by doing that, we can be healing of ourselves, and
then consider do we need to help another person heal,
(22:43):
as Frankel says, as Nepo writes, that's part of the
human condition, we will suffer and through that suffering, through
that fear, we may isolate or try to control. We're
going to hurt others. When we hurt others, we feel
that pang of guilt. What is healing for us and
(23:05):
is healing for the other is to simply take responsibility
and make amends, to own our part of it. And
that doesn't mean, I want to clarify, that does not
mean blame. That does not mean blaming yourself. That does
not mean being blamed. It means looking at what your
partner it was to be human, to share that humanity
(23:26):
with the universe. I thought that was a beautiful reading
for me today. Hopefully you found it meaningful as well.
If you have any questions about all the other fun
things I am doing the cardion app, please take a
look at it. That's Cardion with the purple logo Ketamine
(23:50):
assisted and psychedel other psychedelic assisted therapy. Oh my goodness,
I forgot to tell you client of ketemine assistant psychotherapy
in my office. I've helped other clients through other facilities
and you know with Ketamina's hope as you heard recently
on the podcast Julie Attis. But client one had session
(24:14):
two this week. I hope you have a minute because
this was beautiful and profound. We went through the usual process,
except this time, rather than a starter dose, she was
able to take both starter doses at the same time.
Her the journey clinical protocol. That meant only swishing for
twelve minutes instead of twenty four minutes, and then she
(24:37):
opted for the booster that was a few more minutes,
so it was a full twenty four instead of what
you know, thirty six minutes, And that meant the Kennemy
kind of set you know it's on set was a
little quicker, and I don't know if it was more intense.
She did not report, because what I witnessed in the
notes I took was comparatively this was a much more
(25:00):
physically peaceful journey, not very much movement. I think the
most movement was maybe she had a piece of tissue
in her hand. It's kind of fiddling with that, I'll say, fiddling,
But there's more to it than that. But then the
(25:21):
journey I felt, and I think according to my timer,
was about two or three minutes more brief than the
last one, but again more peaceful and seemingly in her
experience more intense. What I witnessed throughout the entire journey
was just some sniffling that was not present in our
(25:42):
preparation session beforehand, so she didn't appear to have a cold.
I could only assume at that time that was sniffling,
maybe crying. She had her eyemask on so I couldn't tell,
couldn't see her and see her eyes. And then when
she came to once again, it's fascinating the difference so
far in the laws versus intramuscular or intravenous, both with
(26:03):
I AM and IV. The experience I've witnessed and I've
had myself is the ability to kind of come in
and out at the what we call the tail end
of the experience, kind of come to and for me
just to kind of look around and make a choice
to go back in. It seems, again with my limited
experience with the lozenges, once you're done, you're done, and
once you opt to come out, you come out, or
(26:25):
at least that's our experience. So she opted to come
out and took her eye mask off, and her eyes
were incredibly red, so she had obviously been crying. And
I thought, oh, this must have been pretty intense, and
kind of got ready to do my therapy, and she
looked at me and she said sorry. She looked at
(26:48):
me and she said that that was beautiful. That was
just she repeated several times. It was just so beautiful.
It was everything I needed. And I thought, oh goodness.
And that's where I took my electronic note, the one
that kind of handwrite and then I share with the
(27:08):
client afterwards. It's really kind of cool. I love being
able to do that. So I write on an electric
paper and then it I guess it, the system interprets
it to what it thinks I have written, so the
client gets actually the true PDF of my handwritten notes,
but then also an interpretation of what the system thinks
(27:29):
that might be, so they can kind of compare and
trast both. But then after that after they come out
of the journey, I put that aside and I take
out a transcribing program and we record the integration session
so that they have a transcript of everything we said.
And that's really cool because you know, this is a
(27:50):
different kind of therapy, and twenty five years is a therapist.
This is certainly a little bit different from what I
was trained in and twenty five years ago. So we
get the exact trant and then I get to run
it through kind of an AI therapist and it pulls
out summarias and themes and stuff like that, and then
after we do the full course, we'll do some other things.
So that was really cool because what we recorded, I've
(28:17):
known this client. I believe I'd have to check for sure,
but I'm gonna just take five years on and off.
When she came to me in the beginning with some
intense needs and we worked through that in about six
or eight months and kind of comes back and forth
with other crises kind of as I've shared before, my
model is more of a relational model than it's a
medical model. So five years and when she came out
(28:41):
of this Ketamine Assistant Therapy number two again beautiful, so
beautiful everything I needed. The depth of emotion that we
were able to discuss and integrate in that moment was
so strong, so raw right definitely needed some integration therapy.
(29:08):
If she would have been just receiving medical KEDEMYE, I
would have been concerned, for you know, they just you're done,
you go home. Whereas you know, it could have been
good to meet with the therapist a couple of days later,
but what we were able to do was just so powerful.
As we worked on some integration therapy for about an hour,
and again the issues we had talked. Don't get me wrong,
(29:29):
we had talked about these issues in the past at
kind of a surface level. A lot of our past
work was more crisis oriented what's going on now? But
she was able to go back into the past and
and experience some of those emotions again, but in a
in a healing kind of way. It was it was
really beautiful. So as I've said, I I truly am
(29:54):
a big believer in Kedemye assistant psychotherapy, and as we
continue to do more research, I'm excited for it what
it may look like. So as I was saying, if
you're interested in all of those other fun and connecting
things I've been up to. Just a reminder, I still
have those four goals for the year, the four words
(30:18):
for twenty twenty five, The Meaning Project Community. It's coming along.
I just wrote several more courses and I'll be recording
those here soon. I commit to you by the end
of June q two, twenty twenty five, Majining Project Community
(30:42):
will be live. That's right. I am looking at you,
doctor Dan as I stare into the camera. Hold myself accountable.
So the Meaning Project Community Cardion is moving along. Please
go have a look. It will not be free for
much longer. I believe my Boston that the CEO was
interviewing a salesperson. Today. We've piloted it. We've launched it
(31:05):
to some local community mental health centers. They are taking
it out there to a few thousand seats, a few
thousand different clients. I'm excited for you to try it
and share what you experienced with it. So Meeting Project
Community Cardion, Ketamine and Psychedelics Assistant Therapy working on that.
(31:29):
And finally, boy, I just shared about this this week.
I'm doing it training for a one hundred miles century
bike ride starts next week. I've already been on the
bike all year long, just making sure like I'm putting
some miles in ten or twenty sometimes thirty here, but
(31:50):
I started an official twenty week training program to combat
multiple sclerosis. Any funds raised goes to MS research. You
can support my endeavor with his small or as large
a donation you want. I don't know where the page is.
(32:11):
I'll put a link in the I'll put a link
in the show notes. You can link there. I know
I've had some listeners reach out and say we would
love to throw a couple of dollars your way, and
so I am honored by that. Please don't feel obligated,
but thank you so much. That will also be in
the show notes. So what did I say it was
gonna be in the show notes? Nepo And and that's right.
(32:36):
That was a rambler, all of it being about amends
and ketamine and what a beautiful world we get to
live in. What an amazing time we live in that
we get to connect this way and discuss modern research
and ancient wisdom and how they come together to help
(32:56):
us all discover meaning, find purpose, and build RESILIENCEYK you
see how I all wrap that up. That's what the
doctor Dan's like. I make the most awkward segues into
dealing with different things. So hey, it is my profound
honor to be able to speak to you. I appreciate
you listening. Please, if you found this helpful, if you
(33:18):
find any of my podcasts helpful, share it. Hit the
like button and write a comment, et cetera. Whatever people
are supposed to do when they like podcasts and stuff
like that, Please do that. Share the message help me
help more people in bigger ways. Thank care,
Hello, and welcome to the Meeting Project podcast. I'm your host,
doctor Daniel Franz, and as always, thank you for this
opportunity to bring a little bit of mental health, meaning
purpose and resilience and maybe even a little bit of
psychedelics to your day. That is a lot. Surely by
episode two hundred we'll get a little more brief with that,
or maybe not. It's interesting I think about how that
(00:44):
intro has grown since episode one or two, and there's
a reason for it, because I'm doing a lot of different,
different stuff and I was reminded of that today. Warning
it's probably one o'clock in the afternoon as I'm recording,
and I am highly caffeinated. Been in meetings since seven
(01:05):
o'clock this morning, casual meetings, social meetings, work social meetings,
but at the local coffee shop. And what I learned
today is the coffee served at a coffee shop is
not like my delicious black rifle here at home. It
packs a punch. And I'm pretty sure you know, I
even brought my own coffee mug, this nice Meeting Project
(01:26):
podcast mug. And that's not coffee in there by the way,
that's that has got to be water. Right now. I
had some wonderful meetings this morning and only had three
or four cups of their coffee, but wow, it is potent.
Met with the CEO of a local community mental health
(01:49):
center to talk about growing better therapists, evolving better therapists,
helping newly graduated therapists get better, as well as a
whole bunch of other things Cardion included. And then met
with the community navigator for the local agency. This is
(02:11):
such a fascinating line, right. So it's a community group
that receives opioid settlement funds and then gets to decide
how to use them in the community. And so this
gentleman that I met with is the community coordinator that
a is a recovery coach, so he helps people a
(02:32):
lot of people that I work with in recovery and
through my substance abuse group, but he gets to go
out and do the outreach. And we were trying to
figure out how his organization and then the organization that
I chair, which is the organization the Governor's Commission for
a Drug Free Indiana Local County Coordinating Community Coordinating Council,
(02:57):
My goodness, how we can partner together to bring in
more grant dollars to our local community that then help
other people. And that was just two of the amazing
meetings I've had today that required some caffe nation. But
I sat down yesterday. I was trying to figure out
(03:19):
late last night why I was feeling so exhausted, but
so energized, so overworked, but in a way that felt
like I was doing good works. I sat down and
I just started to go through my calendar and kind
of write a list of the what I called non
(03:40):
clinical or bonus meetings of the past four to six weeks,
probably the past two months if you factor out those
two weeks I was away working remotely in Colorado, and
at first glance, I think I think there were twenty
five additional call them coffee chats, right, non clinical chats,
(04:03):
somewhere with fellow students from the Integrative Psychiatry Institute talking
about ketamine and psychedelics, and somewhere with the with or
for the work I'm doing with again that Governor's Commission
for a Drug Free County and doing some work that
will bring the additional state and federal grant dollars to
(04:26):
this locality. And the fun work I'm telling you that
was probably quite a bit of it, coordinating with a
consulting firm that knows how to and file for federal
funding and the work that that involves, so IPI, Drug
Free County, different other agencies of the notebooks laying around
(04:51):
here somewhere, But it reminded me of what we talk
about here when it comes to logo therapy. Even though
it may be suffering, and it's not it's enjoyable, but
it's work. It's hard work. But in that hard work
is creativity, and in that creativity is the opportunity to
(05:12):
discover meaning. Now I have been reminded maybe at some
point to slow down, and ironically, I'll be having a
guest here at the Doctor Dan Farm in a couple
of weeks, I guess a fellow student from the Integrated
Psychiatry Institute is gonna kind of visit and spend a
(05:33):
couple of weeks while we talk. A couple of weeks,
just a couple of days. I was hoping for a
couple of weeks, but a couple of days that we'll
be talking about, well, how to help more people in
bigger ways with the things we are studying. So I
say that to share with you that you know, sometimes
I have to practice what I preach, what I share
(05:54):
with you, and going out there and doing meaningful work.
I know. I started the year talking about this idea
of self care, and then sometimes maybe we have self
care wrong. Maybe it's not about you know, what is it?
I believe it was the Great sitcom. Parks and Recreation
had an entire episode called Treat Yourself, and it was
(06:18):
about going out and getting pedicures and massages and spending
money on yourself to feel better. And something hit me
kind of coming into this year that maybe that's not
what it's all about. Maybe it is about what Frankly
tells us, stepping outside ourselves to serve a purpose greater
(06:40):
than ourselves. Wow. That just occurred to me because I
thought it was about work, finding creativity and meaning and work.
But no, maybe it is about doing self transcendently. As
I said, bringing money to my local area to help
with the drug problem. We're talking to CEOs and community
mental health centers about how to improve to help therapists
(07:02):
do better therapy, to help more people in bigger ways,
and whatever. All the other meetings I've been having are
that I put away so I don't bore you with them,
because what I did want to share with you today
this is interesting. This actually stems out there's some meetings
I haven't listed part of one of the enjoyable things
(07:25):
I do. I still teach, but it's not in a
big classroom setting. The school where I received my doctor at,
the Graduate Theological Foundation, believes in one to one work,
and I teach a few classes there, But lately I've
gotten a lot of students in my is it Rebuilding
(07:46):
a Meaningful Marriage class, and that class takes the work
of the Gotman Institute, which we've talked about before. It
combines it with logo therapy in rebuilding a healthier marriage,
but also there's a focus on rebuilding from infidelity in
betrayal and not just sexual infidelity, but you know, there
(08:07):
are various kinds of betrayals we've talked about, and it
was such a beautiful moment. As I said, it specializes
in one to one learning, and so the way I
do that, my students write a paper every week over
the course material that I've selected, and then we meet
and we talk about that paper and their findings and
(08:29):
their coursework and how they're integrating it into the work
that they do, and my student this week is in
Canada and we're talking, so it was just beautiful, a
great student. I mean, the student only halfway through the class,
but it's pretty easy to assume she will receive an A. Now.
(08:50):
I know my teacher friends might object at already assigning
a grade at midterms, but just in our interactions and
the conversation I have, it is amazing the depth of
knowledge Charity has and how this course really truly serves
as an adjunct to what she already knows. Because when
we were talking about the course material from Gotman and Frankel,
(09:17):
and we incorporate a little bit of doctor Elizabeth Lucas,
one of Frankel students, she all of us Sarden started
pulling in such I think by the end we had
eight other resources brought into this kind of work. And
one of the things we discussed that it truly reminded
(09:38):
me over the course of human history, good ideas, healthy ideas,
ideas of morality and ethics and good behavior and how
to treat each other and grow society resonate throughout history,
whether it's Gotman or Frankel, Peterson or Quinas or Saint
(10:03):
Pope John Paul the second or different ancient writings, the Bible,
the Koran, the Torah as. That was Joseph Campbell. I'm
reading again Man with a Thousand Faces, and he talks
about the mono myth of human history. How a lot
of these all less into our story, our story of humanity.
(10:29):
And that was kind of that idea that all of
these ideas kind of come together in a monolithic, mon individual,
single myth that is the human story. Sorry, I had
to pause for some water. With caffeine comes dehydration, and
(10:49):
with talking while caffeinated, it was quite a bit of dehydration.
But interestingly, yesterday, as I was planning for the podcast,
I'm like, oh, I had this great thing from my
class at IPI Integrated Psychiatric Institute, this the Holistic Integrative
Treatment Plan. I was like, I can't wait to share
that on the podcast. And I was all prepared to
(11:12):
do that, and then something hit me this morning and
my morning readings, because of course, you know, getting up
early to get to the coffee shop, I was going
to wake up relatively early, and then a therapy intern,
puppy dog Daisy, decided that I was gonna wake up
a little bit earlier just early enough that I wasn't
(11:33):
going to be able to go back to bed, so
she decided I had a lot of reading to do today, apparently,
and one of the things I found I just had
to share with you once again. I believe i've shared
before Mark Nepo the Book of Awakening. I will put
a link in the show notes. But today's reading just
(11:57):
hit me because interestingly, we were talking about this parts
of these concepts yesterday in my men's substance abuse group.
But it also relates closely to Frankel and therefore Gotman
and some of the other things I've been talking about.
(12:18):
So if you don't mind, I will read from you
today's reading from Nepo's Book of Awakening. The title is
making Amends, which is so fitting in so many ways
for so many people every day, but especially this time
(12:40):
of year. So he writes a little bit of a
poem at the beginning before the pros, but he says,
there is hurt and there is love. They roll us
through the days like a turtle down a hill. All
we can do when on our back is roll one
(13:00):
more time and head for the sea. He goes on
to write stones Loosened by Storms, cover paths and uprooted trees,
break newly formed nests, and crisis after crisis throws us
into each other. It is inevitable stay alive and you
(13:23):
will be hurt, and you will also others. Now, the
start of that paragraph is particularly fascinating throughout the Midwest
for all of us affected by the horrible storms in
the past week. I hope you and your families are safe.
I know. I look around our yard and see a
(13:43):
cacophony of downed branches and three completely felled trees. That well,
I believe I'll be doing some logging this weekend, a
profession I am not proficient or effective at, but I
will certainly give a try. So this idea comes right
out of Frankel's tragic triad, right, pain guilts and death guilt,
(14:07):
you know, pain suffering. We will all suffer, and we
will all hurt other people. And that's a part of
what we talked about in men's group yesterday. You know,
it is inevitable stay alive and you will be hurt,
and you'll also hurt others, And of course that relates
to making amends. Excuse me, I'm sorry for taking so
(14:31):
many pauses, but the water is so necessary today. NEPO
goes on to write, unintended hurt is as common as
branches snapped in the wind. But it is the unacknowledged
hurt that becomes a wound. Just as our only recourse
(14:54):
to falling down it's getting up. Our only recourse to
hurting others is to acknowledge what we've done and clean
up the mess. This is known as making amends, a
simple yet enormous act of integrity that restores trust. And trust,
(15:19):
after all, is the soil that holds the roots of humankind.
Without it, life on earth begins to eat itself dry.
What causes us to hurt each others? Sorry, accidentally turned
the page stars out of scrolling. What causes us to
(15:39):
hurt each other? It's hard to say, but it seems
that being human, we are subject to many ancient and
powerful opposites found in life. Wow, that just hit me again.
We are subject to many ancient and powerful opposites in life.
The old yin yang, the order in the chaos, the
(16:02):
light and the dark, the shadow and the self. Among
those that impact us constantly are light and dark, yes
and no, and especially fear and peace. For as it
is out of fear that we feel the need to
(16:22):
isolate ourselves or to control others. And it is often
in the act of elevating ourselves that we hurt one another,
not to mention ourselves when not afraid. When in a
moment of peace, we feel quite a different need. We
(16:45):
feel a sudden requirement to connect and belong to other
living things. And it is then, in the act of
true embrace that we love one another. Isn't that beautiful? Right?
When we are peaceful, we can be connected and we
can be loving. But when we are fearful, how we
(17:07):
lash out at ourselves and others? I think Nepa really
really strikes it well. There, he continues still as no
one in daily life is exempt from both sleeping and waking.
No one can escape feeling both fear and peace, and
so no one can escape being both hurtful and loving.
(17:33):
But the world is kept whole by those who can
overcome their fear. However briefly, the blood of life itself
is kept vital by those who can simply and bravely
repair their separations time and time again. Even if our
(17:53):
awareness of being hurtful comes years after delivering the hurt,
the smallest word or gesture, Owning what we've done can
reopen the heart. And I have to say from my
experience as a clinician that idea is critical. Even if
(18:16):
our awareness of being hurtful comes years after delivering the hurt,
the smallest word or gesture owning what we've done can
reopen the heart. I've seen that time and again. Children
who are reminded of a wound, or adults who are
reminded of of childhood wounds, simply by being validated by
(18:37):
a parent can heal. I've seen this in several cases lately.
Parents that cannot own mistakes keep the wound going. But
then there are times when the wound needs to be
(18:58):
discussed because I think sometimes times maybe sometimes we're two
wounded too offended, or maybe we assess when it comes
to parenting that our parents did something wrong when in
actuality they did the best of their ability, but maybe
it wasn't enough at that time, and that re well,
(19:21):
that requires some pretty important, honest conversation that can be difficult,
but can be also an opportunity to grow. So it's important.
Sometimes we don't recognize that we've been hurtful, but I
think sometimes when we feel hurt the other person may
(19:43):
not even know, may not even have the ability to,
and that can be a very powerful discussion of making amends.
Nepo goes on, and I love this book. I'm so
glad I finally picked up a copy later in the year.
He offers kind of a meditation after each each day's writing.
(20:06):
So this recommendation, sit quietly and bring to mind and
heart an act of isolation or control that you invoked
which hurt another And I think it's important to recognize
sometimes when we hurt other people through isolation or an
attempt to control, we don't recognize it. We don't recognize right,
(20:26):
like we all know, like you know, people who control
or that's not healthy. But sometimes isolating ourselves is Most
of the time, isolating ourselves isn't healthy either, And both
of those actions can be hurtful. But that doesn't mean
our intent was to hurt. Sometimes it is right. Sometimes
(20:46):
we are so wounded ourselves we try to hurt other people,
and that certainly requires amends. But even when we don't
recognize it, even when we are intent wasn't to hurt,
we can definitely certainly validate the other person's experience and
make amends in a healthy kind of way. And sometimes, look,
(21:07):
I'll be honest. Sometimes that takes professional intervention. Sometimes that
means emailing or calling up doctor Dan being like, hey,
I need some help with this. Okay, I can help.
There are many good therapists out there that can certainly
help with that. Sit quietly and bring to mind and
heart and act of isolation or control that you invoked
with another. Breathe deeply and try to see the fear
(21:32):
that prompted your need to isolate our control. That's our
opportunity to take ownership, to take responsibility. Breathe slowly, and
I'll offer. Breathe deeply. Breathe slowly and deeply, and in
your heart make amends that is on the fear that
prompted you, the act of isolation or control that arose
from it, and the hurt that resulted, just for yourself.
(21:57):
Express your amends in a letter or card addressed to
the person you hurt. That doesn't mean you have to
send it, doesn't mean you have to share it with anybody.
You can share it with your therapist, with a mentor
or presapastor or minister, with your spouse, or just with yourself.
Right express those amends enter your day and let your
(22:21):
heart tell you whether to mail the amends or not. Right.
Sometimes just the act of writing, we take thought and
put it, we make it real right and by that,
by doing that, we can be healing of ourselves, and
then consider do we need to help another person heal,
(22:43):
as Frankel says, as Nepo writes, that's part of the
human condition, we will suffer and through that suffering, through
that fear, we may isolate or try to control. We're
going to hurt others. When we hurt others, we feel
that pang of guilt. What is healing for us and
(23:05):
is healing for the other is to simply take responsibility
and make amends, to own our part of it. And
that doesn't mean, I want to clarify, that does not
mean blame. That does not mean blaming yourself. That does
not mean being blamed. It means looking at what your
partner it was to be human, to share that humanity
(23:26):
with the universe. I thought that was a beautiful reading
for me today. Hopefully you found it meaningful as well.
If you have any questions about all the other fun
things I am doing the cardion app, please take a
look at it. That's Cardion with the purple logo Ketamine
(23:50):
assisted and psychedel other psychedelic assisted therapy. Oh my goodness,
I forgot to tell you client of ketemine assistant psychotherapy
in my office. I've helped other clients through other facilities
and you know with Ketamina's hope as you heard recently
on the podcast Julie Attis. But client one had session
(24:14):
two this week. I hope you have a minute because
this was beautiful and profound. We went through the usual process,
except this time, rather than a starter dose, she was
able to take both starter doses at the same time.
Her the journey clinical protocol. That meant only swishing for
twelve minutes instead of twenty four minutes, and then she
(24:37):
opted for the booster that was a few more minutes,
so it was a full twenty four instead of what
you know, thirty six minutes, And that meant the Kennemy
kind of set you know it's on set was a
little quicker, and I don't know if it was more intense.
She did not report, because what I witnessed in the
notes I took was comparatively this was a much more
(25:00):
physically peaceful journey, not very much movement. I think the
most movement was maybe she had a piece of tissue
in her hand. It's kind of fiddling with that, I'll say, fiddling,
But there's more to it than that. But then the
(25:21):
journey I felt, and I think according to my timer,
was about two or three minutes more brief than the
last one, but again more peaceful and seemingly in her
experience more intense. What I witnessed throughout the entire journey
was just some sniffling that was not present in our
(25:42):
preparation session beforehand, so she didn't appear to have a cold.
I could only assume at that time that was sniffling,
maybe crying. She had her eyemask on so I couldn't tell,
couldn't see her and see her eyes. And then when
she came to once again, it's fascinating the difference so
far in the laws versus intramuscular or intravenous, both with
(26:03):
I AM and IV. The experience I've witnessed and I've
had myself is the ability to kind of come in
and out at the what we call the tail end
of the experience, kind of come to and for me
just to kind of look around and make a choice
to go back in. It seems, again with my limited
experience with the lozenges, once you're done, you're done, and
once you opt to come out, you come out, or
(26:25):
at least that's our experience. So she opted to come
out and took her eye mask off, and her eyes
were incredibly red, so she had obviously been crying. And
I thought, oh, this must have been pretty intense, and
kind of got ready to do my therapy, and she
looked at me and she said sorry. She looked at
(26:48):
me and she said that that was beautiful. That was
just she repeated several times. It was just so beautiful.
It was everything I needed. And I thought, oh goodness.
And that's where I took my electronic note, the one
that kind of handwrite and then I share with the
(27:08):
client afterwards. It's really kind of cool. I love being
able to do that. So I write on an electric
paper and then it I guess it, the system interprets
it to what it thinks I have written, so the
client gets actually the true PDF of my handwritten notes,
but then also an interpretation of what the system thinks
(27:29):
that might be, so they can kind of compare and
trast both. But then after that after they come out
of the journey, I put that aside and I take
out a transcribing program and we record the integration session
so that they have a transcript of everything we said.
And that's really cool because you know, this is a
(27:50):
different kind of therapy, and twenty five years is a therapist.
This is certainly a little bit different from what I
was trained in and twenty five years ago. So we
get the exact trant and then I get to run
it through kind of an AI therapist and it pulls
out summarias and themes and stuff like that, and then
after we do the full course, we'll do some other things.
So that was really cool because what we recorded, I've
(28:17):
known this client. I believe I'd have to check for sure,
but I'm gonna just take five years on and off.
When she came to me in the beginning with some
intense needs and we worked through that in about six
or eight months and kind of comes back and forth
with other crises kind of as I've shared before, my
model is more of a relational model than it's a
medical model. So five years and when she came out
(28:41):
of this Ketamine Assistant Therapy number two again beautiful, so
beautiful everything I needed. The depth of emotion that we
were able to discuss and integrate in that moment was
so strong, so raw right definitely needed some integration therapy.
(29:08):
If she would have been just receiving medical KEDEMYE, I
would have been concerned, for you know, they just you're done,
you go home. Whereas you know, it could have been
good to meet with the therapist a couple of days later,
but what we were able to do was just so powerful.
As we worked on some integration therapy for about an hour,
and again the issues we had talked. Don't get me wrong,
(29:29):
we had talked about these issues in the past at
kind of a surface level. A lot of our past
work was more crisis oriented what's going on now? But
she was able to go back into the past and
and experience some of those emotions again, but in a
in a healing kind of way. It was it was
really beautiful. So as I've said, I I truly am
(29:54):
a big believer in Kedemye assistant psychotherapy, and as we
continue to do more research, I'm excited for it what
it may look like. So as I was saying, if
you're interested in all of those other fun and connecting
things I've been up to. Just a reminder, I still
have those four goals for the year, the four words
(30:18):
for twenty twenty five, The Meaning Project Community. It's coming along.
I just wrote several more courses and I'll be recording
those here soon. I commit to you by the end
of June q two, twenty twenty five, Majining Project Community
(30:42):
will be live. That's right. I am looking at you,
doctor Dan as I stare into the camera. Hold myself accountable.
So the Meaning Project Community Cardion is moving along. Please
go have a look. It will not be free for
much longer. I believe my Boston that the CEO was
interviewing a salesperson. Today. We've piloted it. We've launched it
(31:05):
to some local community mental health centers. They are taking
it out there to a few thousand seats, a few
thousand different clients. I'm excited for you to try it
and share what you experienced with it. So Meeting Project
Community Cardion, Ketamine and Psychedelics Assistant Therapy working on that.
(31:29):
And finally, boy, I just shared about this this week.
I'm doing it training for a one hundred miles century
bike ride starts next week. I've already been on the
bike all year long, just making sure like I'm putting
some miles in ten or twenty sometimes thirty here, but
(31:50):
I started an official twenty week training program to combat
multiple sclerosis. Any funds raised goes to MS research. You
can support my endeavor with his small or as large
a donation you want. I don't know where the page is.
(32:11):
I'll put a link in the I'll put a link
in the show notes. You can link there. I know
I've had some listeners reach out and say we would
love to throw a couple of dollars your way, and
so I am honored by that. Please don't feel obligated,
but thank you so much. That will also be in
the show notes. So what did I say it was
gonna be in the show notes? Nepo And and that's right.
(32:36):
That was a rambler, all of it being about amends
and ketamine and what a beautiful world we get to
live in. What an amazing time we live in that
we get to connect this way and discuss modern research
and ancient wisdom and how they come together to help
(32:56):
us all discover meaning, find purpose, and build RESILIENCEYK you
see how I all wrap that up. That's what the
doctor Dan's like. I make the most awkward segues into
dealing with different things. So hey, it is my profound
honor to be able to speak to you. I appreciate
you listening. Please, if you found this helpful, if you
(33:18):
find any of my podcasts helpful, share it. Hit the
like button and write a comment, et cetera. Whatever people
are supposed to do when they like podcasts and stuff
like that, Please do that. Share the message help me
help more people in bigger ways. Thank care,
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