October 15, 2025 • 38 mins
Baltimore author/law professor & director Dionne Koller talks about her latest release “More Than Play: How Law, Policy & Politics Shape American Youth Sport” on how and why youth sports has become all-consuming, costly, and in many cases detrimental to boys and girls alike! Dionne is a Univ. of Baltimore School of Law Professor and director of Center for Sport & The Law, also co-chaired the Commission on State of U.S. Olympics & Paralympics, and the Anti-Doping Agency Admin. Review Panel, etc., and discusses the unequal power dynamics including hidden political agendas and the big business tied to the professional ranks and governments, and explains the real meaning of “student-athlete”! Check out the amazing Dionne Koller and her latest on all major platforms and www/dionnekoller.com today! #dionnekoller #author #baltimore #lawprofessor #morethanplay #director #universityofbaltimoreschooloflaw #centerforsportandthelaw #usolympics #paralympics #antidopingagency #youthsports #professionalsports #spreaker #iheartradio #spotify #applemusic #youtube #anchorfm #bitchute #rumble #mikewagner #themikewagnershow #mikewagnerdionnekoller #themikewagnershowdionnekoller
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(01:36):
TikTok as well. We're here at the amazing author and
the University of Baltimore School Law professor and the director
of Center for Sport and the Law. We'll get to
more of that. Co chair the Commission on State and
the US Olympics and Paralympics and also executive Board and
Sports Law of the also look at that right US
Anti Doping Agency and also the ad Review Panel and
(01:59):
all so International Sports Law Journal also served on that board.
Has a new book out there which dels in two
YU sport has become all consuming, costly, and in many
cases detriment to boys and girls. The books called More
Than Play, How Law, Policy and Politics Shape American Youth Sport, Live,
Ladies and generalen plus News and Beautiful Downtown Baltimore. The
(02:21):
amazing author University of Baltimore School a Law Professor, director
of the Center for Sport and the Law and the
author's book More Than Play, How Law, Policy and the
Politics Shape American Youth Sport. The multi talent Dion col
It Dion the Warning, Good afternoon, Gaving, thanks for joining
us today.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Hey, thanks for having me here, Mike. It's really terrific
to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
What's great to have you on as well too. A
great city of Baltimore with all the wonderful sports as well,
like the Ools, the Ravens and everything like that. You're
an author University of Baltimore School of Law, Professor and
director of Center for Sport and the Law. You co
chaired the Commission on State of the US Olympics and
the Paralympics and also served on a number of like
the Sports Law of Als and also US Anti Doping
(03:04):
Agency AB and Review Panel, Education Board for the International
Sports and also The new book basically just goes into
why you sport has become all consuming, costly, many cases
detrimental boys and girls, and we'll talk about some of
these dynamics why it's happened. The book is called More
than Play, a Law, Policy and Politics, Shape American Youth Sport.
(03:27):
For getting on that, Deon, tell us how you first
got start?
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Well, I mean, this book is something that I wrote
for personal and professional reasons. I got into sports law
and got interested in this material because, first of all,
I was an athlete growing up. I love sports, and
so for personal reasons, I was very interested in pursuing
sports law and continuing to write about it. I put
(03:53):
my kids into youth sports, and so from a personal angle,
I wanted to certainly be writing about this and working
in this. But from a professional side, Mike, what I
realized is that we just don't have enough legal kind
of writing and scholarship about what's going on in youth sports.
We have a lot from the medical community, from sociology,
(04:15):
from different other academic disciplines, but the legal community has
mostly ignored youth sports. And I thought that there was
a real opportunity here to explain what was going.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
On and why was the legal community of not involved
with us?
Speaker 5 (04:31):
Well, I think one of the things I found in
my research is that the law just assumes that youth
sport is just always a good thing, it's something positive
for kids. And so I think that as lawyers and
legal scholars, we just assumed there's really nothing to say
about youth sports. Isn't it just good and positive and
something everybody should be doing. And so I think many
(04:54):
of us I'm included in this. I've been teaching sports
law now for nearly twenty years, and I never included
it in what I was teaching. I focused on professional
and college sports, and so we just didn't think of
youth sports as something that was deserving of our attention, because, hey,
isn't it all just good? And that's that. But there's
(05:15):
a lot more to the story than that that I found,
and so I thought it was really important to describe that.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Also, maybe think of backyard sports. It doesn't say have
to be like league play sanctioned all that. I mean,
backyard sports that's been missing for quite some time.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
Yeah, we just don't do that nearly as much as
we should. Mike, I mean now, certainly when I was
growing up, there was a lot more free play and
kids just sort of playing in the backyard or down
the street or at a park somewhere. It's now much
more adult led and structured organized youth sports. And that's
one of the things I talk about in the book,
(05:52):
which is over the last thirty years, there's been a
major change in how children even engage with sports. It's
really not like it used to be. And so that
warrants some attention.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
At what point do you think, maybe year wise, decade
wise and everything. And of course, you know, we've been
in free play for quite some time. I mean football, baseball, basketball, hockey,
and everything like that. You just get on the street,
get in someone's yard, or even go to a park
behind the school or out in open land where there's like,
you know, no rules, nothing, no supervision, everything like that.
(06:25):
At what point or maybe in a year or in
a decade or some has that significantly changed from just
gathering a bunch of friends going out to the field
the park and just you know, play whatever, baseball, football, basketball, hockey,
bring a ball, have fun, sunrise the sunset. To get
into where where it's like adults have to be involved,
community has to be involved or you know worse, like
you know, sanctioned lawyers and everything where has gotten the
(06:48):
point where it's like it went from the backyard free
play to becoming you know, just adult directed and everything else.
As you mentioned like what year, what decade, what precise
moment do you guess would that be?
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Well, I don't think there's a precise year, but I
think sports sociologists have said since the nineteen eighties, about
the early nineteen nineties, we start seeing this shift from
more free play into more structured activities. And so about
the early nineteen nineties is when sociologists say parents became
(07:22):
much more interested in putting their kids into activities that
could cultivate skills and help kids develop and sort of
develop measurable outcomes. Right, And we also saw the evolution
of the sports industry. So as the sports industry continues
(07:42):
to grow during this time and explodes in popularity, we
see that leaving kids to just play by themselves is
becoming less popular, and having kids develop skills to become
the next Michael Jordan or next grade athlete becomes more popular.
So there's a lot of different factors, but I think
(08:04):
it's about the late eighties early nineteen nineties what my
research showed in terms of the history, and of course
it's still it's still ongoing, right, We are now continuing
to evolve where youth sport is becoming even more expensive,
adult led, structured organized travel, and so we're right now
(08:26):
at a point in history where we're the farthest away
than we've ever been from that sort of free play
predominant model that certainly was something that when I was
growing up was more common.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Or are some of the factors that involved with the
parents that cause, like, you know, getting more involved and
everything was because work schedules? Was it like salary demands
or schedules or anything. What are some of the precise
factors that made it where it's like you old parents
have to get involved, Like some of the factor will
work or scheduling.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many different factors, Mike, But
certainly there's an idea that this notion that being a
good parent meant that, you know, you put your kids
into activities that can cultivate their talents rather than leaving
kids alone to sort of play. And you know, certainly
when I grew up, you'd go out and play and
you know, be back by dinner, right.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I remember that, yes, right, right, I know adults.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
Were over your shoulder all day. Right. Well, those ideas changed.
That idea that you leave kids to sort of be
free to explore, that idea sort of went intocline and
then it became good parents ensure that their children are
supervised and most importantly supervised and activities that can really
(09:42):
cultivate their talents so that those kids can then you know,
get into good colleges and have a great life in
terms of employment possibilities. The whole idea is you can't
leave kids to sort of develop themselves. You have to
be cultivating them and involved as a parent. So as
those ideas of more involved parenting kind of got swept in.
(10:06):
And certainly as two parent, two income households, you need
things for kids to do to be supervised. So lots
of different factors here, but I think what's feeding into
these general societal factors is obviously the evolution of the
global sports industry. And as we need more athletic talent,
we have to start going into the youth category to
(10:29):
start building that talent along the way.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
And of course you talked about having our supervision everything
like that, how do you think the sports program will
liked with today being so regulated compared to the rest
of the world, and sometimes even like the poorer countries,
you know, the parents will let their kids play soccer,
you know, especially around Brazil, South America and everything. And
with all of these programs, some have become just great
superstars almost like Pele Ronaldo and all that. And of course,
(10:57):
you know, especially baseball, some poor countries even like you know,
some have ended up being like a smaller version of
cal Ripkin from Baltimore.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
Yeah, I mean, lots of countries are doing lots of
different things. And what we know is that around the world,
more and more countries are engaging children in sports, again
because of the development of the global sports industry. And
of course you talk about soccer as a great example.
But in the United States, we don't have a lot
(11:27):
of regulation or policy, like a policy agenda in terms
of government setting goals for kids involvement in sports. From
the perspective of kind of funding a lot of sports,
we don't have a lot of government involvement in sports. Certainly,
the government encourages kids to get involved in sports from
the perspective of it's good for kids. To exercise and
(11:48):
the childhood obesity epidemic and lots of things like that.
But we really don't have kind of a system where, say,
the government is helping to fund youth sports, and lots
of other places in the world, we don't have a
government agency that's in charge of sports or that takes
kind of any supervisory role over youth sports. So what's
(12:10):
happened is youth sport has grown up in the private
sector in the United States unlike in other countries, and
it's gone so expensive that and you bring up the
example of soccer. Soccer in the United States for kids
is now so very expensive that it's a very A
lot of kids can't even access it. They can't play,
they can't get involved. And so without kind of good
(12:34):
publicly funded opportunities, you have a lot of kids that
could be the next Pele and they just can't they
can't access it in an organized way at least.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And do you think government intervention does need to be
involved or do you think or is there a fear
that government could get too much involved hamper in the sports,
hamper in the sports culture, especially with cut sets happening
with Department of Was it government efficiency do you think
would that be necessary during this time or is that
going to you more of a deterrent.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Well, I think certainly there's not a political appetite now
for more government related to anything. But in terms of
whether there's a need for more government involvement in sports,
I think there's a good argument that there is not
a government takeover review sports, not micromanaging Little League, nothing
like that. But if you think about it, Mike, the
government can be involved in a few different ways. First
(13:28):
of all, there's federal government involvement and there's state government involvement.
And the ways that our federal or state governments can
get involved is number one, through more public funding for
kids sports. More kids in this country could participate in sports.
If we went back to more of a recreational league model,
and if we did more public funding so that more
(13:50):
kids could get involved, that would be healthy. It would
probably save us a lot of money in the long
run in terms of health care costs and all the like.
That would be a really good investment. We know sports
does some good things. Right now, we don't have a
lot of public funding for sports, So that's one way
the government could be involved. A second way, the government
can be involved is there could be some at least
minimum safety standards. So, Mike, when we talk about government involvement,
(14:14):
I think we talk about it in generalities and we think, oh,
wait a second, we don't want the government taking everything over.
But there's a whole lot of space in between no
involvement and a takeover right of sports, for say, requiring
coaches to have background checks so that every coach that's
involved with a kid we know, say, doesn't have a
(14:34):
criminal record or something like that. So I think there's
a lot of room for some minimum standards and a
little more funding than we have today, and it could
make a big difference in the lives of kids.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
And speaking of you know, coaches, parents, athletes, and everything
like that, that Dymanic has somehow changed as well too.
In the book More than Play, How Law, policy and
politics shape youth American Sport with Dean Kalo gets that
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micro winnershow dot com. We're here. It's the amazing author
and the University of Baltimore School law professor and the
director of Center for Sport and the Law Deon Kohler
here on the micro Wayner Show with More than Play,
How law, policy and politics shape youth American sports. He
(17:19):
talked about being involved with with sports as youth. You know,
I did with baseball, some basketball, and a little bit
of tennis, and of course you know, we did a
free thing in hockey and the coaches basically just let
you guide you babysit play and everything. Now that has
shifted to wheres it's like you some have like the
coaches in a different hierarchy. So let's talk about how
(17:43):
that was back in the day we played and how
it is now and what was causing that that changed
in dynamic.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
Yeah, well, again, as as sports for kids has gotten
more adult led and adult organized and supervised, one of
the things is that now the co is the boss
and and there's much more structure. So with free play,
when kids are playing with themselves, they can make up
the rules, they make up the structure, they decide when
(18:10):
they start, when they stop, and and sort of who's
on what team and how it goes. I think we
all remember some of those playground lessons.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Oh yes, and of course the last one being could
be mister irrelevant, like like rock party. It's like last
one pick could be a superstar.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
Right right, right, So, but nowadays the coach is the boss,
and and so that just creates a hierarchy. And it
especially creates some hierarchies because even a lot of parents say, geez,
we don't want to, you know, anger the coach, make
the coach unhappy step in. You know, parents are giving
their authority over to coaches. But a lot of times
(18:50):
these coaches aren't necessarily trained. They they don't have sort
of training in in kind of child development, for instance.
And what we know about the US system is that
quite frequently it just prioritizes kids who are who are
very good at their sport kind of early and quickly.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
But we know that.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Children grow and develop over time and at different ways
in different speeds. And so when you have coaches that
aren't necessarily as trained and schooled in that we can
weed out a lot of kids from our system because
they're you know, they're in the system and they and
a coach says, okay, you're not going to make the
(19:31):
next level of team, and so that's it. There's nowhere
else for the kid to go. So I think that's
one of the unfortunate downsides. I mean, certainly we're more
structured now, you know, we have and there's a lot
of positives with with coaches and involvement and organization, but
there's also some negatives, which is kids can be kind
of labeled you're an athlete and you're not at a
(19:53):
very young age.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And also too, there's been a strong emphasis on winning,
which getting to a point of being real poisons as
well in terms of free play and recreacial part district.
You get out there, have fun, you learn lessons. Even
coaches out there who believe in structure back in the day,
they had no interest in winning. It was just simply
teaching lessons what to do and letter implying life. And
(20:16):
all of a sudden you got coaches out there that
just wins. It seems that, if I'm right, that it
actually discourages kid and just hampers their development and causes
more discouragement if they're pressure to win every single time.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Yeah. I think what we have really good data on
MIKE is that most children who enter youth sports leave
youth sports by the time they're twelve thirteen years old.
Oh and so that is really a stunning statistic. And
what we know is that they leave because of either
over use, injuries or burnout. Those are major factors. And
(20:56):
one of the things that drives over use, injuries and
burnout is this drive to compete, compete, compete and win.
That's hard. That's a sort of professional level demand on
children who aren't developmentally ready to handle it. And again,
what it does is it pushes a lot more kids
out of sports then brings them in. And I think
(21:19):
that's an unfortunate consequence of our overly competitive youth sports system. Certainly,
there are kids who are destined to be elite athletes.
We don't want to shut down the system for those kids,
and for that small percentage of kids that are really
going to go on, they're going to be Olympians, they're
going to be other types of elite athletes. Of course
we want to accommodate that. But the idea that tens
(21:41):
of millions of children, the ones who are participating. Not
everybody's going to be sort of on that elite track,
but we're running a system that is essentially for that
sort of very small number of kids. And so most
kids are quitting, and they're quitting because they're exhausted and
their bodies are exhausted.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Also, I heard the statistic recently too, and if you confirm,
maybe you know, just tweak a little bit that I
heard the statistic, and or for a player be successful
in baseball, you know, just as a shortstop, that the
odds of making was that the high school team was
like one in one hundred or something like that. Then
go to college one in one thousand. Then you have
(22:23):
the minor leagues one in ten thousand, or if you
move up in levels, and then starting shortstop in major
I heard it's like one about one million, three million,
and it's like a really high odds. It's almost like
trying to win the lottery if you become a starting shortstop.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Yeah, I mean, this is really what it's becoming. I mean,
to even play on a college team, Mike. And so
what we know from the research as well is that
parents have completely almost really delusional sort of understandings thinking
my kid's going to beat the odds. My kid's going
to beat the odds. Well, everybody thinks that their kid's
going to beat the odds, and that master it doesn't work.
(23:00):
So certainly, we want to have opportunities for kids to
go on to those higher levels, but we also need
a system that sort of accommodates, nurtures and provides benefits
for all the millions and millions of kids who don't
who don't go on to become a starting shortstop anywhere.
But we want them to have a good sports experience
(23:23):
because we want them to become lifelong exercisers and just
adopt these healthy lifestyles. And so I think there's a
lot of room for improvement from that perspective.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
And plus, for those who decide to go on to
be an athlete, then you got the student athlete you
know in college and everything like that back in the
day where a student athlete is to where you go
on a scholarship or a walk on, you play whatever sport,
you go and get your degree, and then you take
those skills you learn in the classroom and the field
and work on coaches. Then you just move on to
(23:54):
the professional world. But now it's just like the dynamic
has turned where it's like the student athlete is expecting
to be paid. So so I don't know if it's like,
you know, should they pay the student athletes back then
just to keep them in or is this like, are
they waking up to realizing now that hey, I think
it's time to pay them. Even it's even more evident
(24:16):
that you see these jerseys with their numbers on it,
and yet these two athletes getting no money from it.
Speaker 5 (24:23):
Yeah, I mean, Mike, The college athlete athletics model is
a very legally complex situation, and certainly what we have
now with any trust lawsuits, you know, it makes it
even more complex. What we know about college athletics, however,
is that, yes, there's now very strong legal claims for
athletes to make money because college athletics has evolved and everybody,
(24:47):
every congressional investigation has shown that everybody's making college in
college athletics is making money except the athlete, and certainly
for anybody else on campus who was put in the
types of hours that the typical college athlete is putting in,
at least in the revenue generating sports. We'd have to
(25:07):
pay them. Right, if you work sixty hours a week
to work in the college library, we'd have to pay
you a wage. So I think there's some legal issues there.
Those are being sorted out. It's too bad that the
NCAA did and sort these things out before when they
knew their model was was illegal. Right. Yes, having litigation
do it for you is always a painful process, but
(25:29):
I think it's all going to be sorted out. But
what happens is as things change at the college level,
that puts pressure on the youth model. And then parents say, hey,
wait a second, if kids are getting paid in college,
that's even more of a reason for me to push
my kids too hard in youth sports.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
And also too the minorities as well too. Do you
think how that's being affected as well too. You know,
back in the day minorities were are encouraged. Now it's
SEMTV switching to and tunement. It's almost like where do
you draw the line if you include minorities and and
kind of stepping and making sure that you don't get
super by a certain minority. It's like, you know, minority
(26:04):
is also coming to play when it comes to sports.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
Well, I think it's a really hard question when you're
talking about children who are you know, socioeconomically disadvantaged, because
I think one of the unfortunate issues in sports is
that most kids, you know, black children, children of color.
You know, certainly girls don't have as much access to sports,
(26:28):
and certainly, for instance, black males, their primary access is
in football and basketball. They don't have access because it's
just so expensive to for instance, play soccer, swim do
other things. And so we have a model that really
sort of steers certain kids into certain sports and provides
only certain opportunities at a higher level. So I think
(26:51):
more and more if we open sports up, we would
see kids finding sports that best match their talents. I
think that would be good for the country, be good
for our Olympic and Paralympic program, and.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
So oh definitely I love to see that happen. You know,
just have all these in there representing not being forced in.
I love to see that happen.
Speaker 5 (27:11):
We have certainly much more we can do for our
Olympic and Paralympic pipelines. You know, if we if we
opened up more youth sports to more kids and didn't
make it so expensive, so we might finally have a
winning handball.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Team, handball, pickleball, corn corn hole. I mean, I mean,
was it like you got like break dancing, rap dancing,
roller skating. It's like I watched a little bit of
the Olympics, uh last year. It's like I couldn't think
of new sports it came up.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
So yeah, the International Olympic Committee is fighting hard to
try and keep the Olympic movement relevant to young people,
and so rock climbing it is, Mike, It's a little
different than the Olympics of our of our youth.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
I remember that. Yeah too. There's another thing I was
going to mention as well too, nine that has come
into play as well. How do you think Title nine
has benefit so far? Do you think it's still benefited
or it has got to a point where it's hurting
female athletes or is it good to a point where
it's on the verge of bmbu's that are taking advantage
of it.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
Well, you know, the Title nine, it's now over fifty
years old. And what we do know what the data
show about Title line. First of all, Title line only
applies to school based sports programs. It doesn't apply to
anything outside of schools. But what we know very clearly
is Title nine has really never been enforced the way
it should have been enforced, and that girls and women
(28:36):
still don't get the number of participation opportunities that they should.
It's certainly much much better than it used to be,
but we're we're not quite there yet. So one of
the things that I think is important is that we
we move away from sort of these outdated ideas which
we're prevalent up until even just twenty years ago, that
(28:56):
you know, girls weren't interested as interested in sport as boys.
But we now have the numbers and if you look
at high school sports for instance, it's you know, girls
and boys. You know, it's it's it's pretty equal. I mean,
they they the demand is there, and so every kid,
if they have access to it, would like to at
least have an opportunity to play sports. Again, it's expensive,
(29:18):
and then once we get them in the system, we
often drive them out because it's just too competitive.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Right, yeah, hey come on, go go pro, go college. Well,
let's go, let's go.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Right exactly. But since Title nine has been passed, that's
one of the things that has caused our youth sports
system to really explode in terms of an industry is
there are a lot more people who want to play
sports now, m.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
And I think that's really great as well too, and
and of course a bit more as well too. What
can people do to help and everything? We'll be back
with More than Play, How, Law, Policy, Politics, Shape American
Youth Sport with deon caller you listen to The Mic
Wedners Show at the Mic Wednershow dot compowered by Sondweb CDOs.
Write you by official sponsor to The Mike Wagner Show,
(30:02):
Internet Warbring author Memilson's Missing This Swee sawm is by
Serena Wagner, based on life of David Klean. Three Squizz
of Pains King David Salmsamazon dot com keywords Swee Sawmas,
Serena Wagner. We'll be back with Outh there, Dean Kohler
of More than Play, He Law, Policy, Politics, Shape Youth,
American Sport after this time.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
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Speaker 2 (30:50):
Hey ver, Dana Laxa here, American news anchor. Hey, let
me ask you something real quick. Why do you read
a book. You're buying a story, a thought, a message,
and a good book entertains and inspires. And that's exactly
what a Missing By Award winning author of Me on
the Zia does. I have his book right here, and
it's based on real events with relatable characters that hook
(31:13):
you from start to finish. I personally love this book.
It's super powerful and meaningful through you can actually get
it on Amazon right now.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book The Sweet Sawmist, now availed on Emson. This
book includes thirty exquisite pintings by well known and unknown
painters and King David Salms. The Sweet Sawmist gives us
a new perspective on his life in this book through
the songs he wrote. His time as a shepherd in
the field is will. The book starts and it goes
on to describe his complicated and turbulent relationship with King Saul,
(31:41):
as well as other events. It's a story of love, betrayal, repentance,
and more. It also offers advice and approaching God and
living a life that pleases him. Check out the book
The Sweet Sawmist by Serena Wagner, now available on Amazon
keywords Sweet Sawmist Serena Wagner. Hey, Hey, this is Ray
Powers and boy are you in luck? Right place, right time?
(32:02):
Tuned into the Mike Wagner Show.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
You heard me?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
We're back with out There Dengkohler here on the Mike
Wahner's Show with more than play Hell, law, policy, politics,
shape youth, American sport and just one more thing. If
you were to run the American sports is whether it
be IOC or some agency or whatever as well, what
would you like to see and force and wuld like
to see changes as well.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
Well. I'd really like to see a lot more public
funding for youth sports. I'd like to see all kids
have an opportunity to play sports. I'd like to see
a much broader range of sports options. There's so many
different ways we can engage kids physically it would be
so good for them. We know it is, And if
I were running it, I would make their at least
(32:53):
a minimum MIC, a minimum safety standard, so that coaches
have background checks and parents can have piece mine to
know that they're the people who are around their kids.
Most of them are really really good people, but just
peace of mind to know that, you know, we get
those bad apples out of youth sports.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
And don't forget the referees as well too, don't forget that.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's so much to be done
in youth sports, of course, but anybody who has access
to kids in youth sports I think should have at
least a criminal background.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Check, and I think the grad yeah, drug tasks, everything
like that. You don't, you know, come smelling booze like
the bad News bears. You know those days are cigars small.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Right right, right right right? So you know, in my world,
I wouldn't overly regulate, Mike, but I would just make
sure that some of these minimums are met and that
more kids could get in the game.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
And of course, Leslie, how can we help?
Speaker 5 (33:54):
Well, I think the way to help is to talk
to your state legislators, talk to your federal legislators and
say let's do some common sense things and get get
more kids involved in youth sports. It's good for the country.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
And certainly indeed as well too make it great again.
And where can we find your book More than Play
at and all your works at Dean.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
Well the book. You can find the book anywhere where
books are sold, and you can learn more about me
and my work at my website Dioncohler dot com.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
That's certainly great. We're here with Dion Cohler of More
than Play, How law, policy and politics shape youth American
sport here on the Mike Wenders Show. Just a few
more things, Dian, What else can we expect me in
twenty twenty five and beyond well.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
I'm going to continue talking about the book in twenty
twenty five and continue writing about youth sports. And we
have lots of states now, Mike, that are getting interested
in learning more about what they can do to ensure safe,
positive sport experiences. And so I look forward to working
with any states that are interested in talking about these
things more.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
And we're certainly looking forward to as well. Who do
you consider biggest influence in your career?
Speaker 5 (35:00):
In my career, I would have to say my sports
experience was the biggest My youth sport experience was the
biggest influence in my career because not only did it
get me interested in participating in sports, but it gave
me the life skills needed to forge a career in sports.
It's not you know, we say it so often, you
(35:21):
learn so many great life lessons in youth sports. But
I really look at that and say, I truly did, And.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
I think that's really great as well too. Everybody should
remember that when they're playing. And what's the best advice
you can give to anybody at this point, Well, what.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
I would say is get your kids involved in sports.
But if you're a parent, be an involved parent. When
your kid has gone too far, it feels pushed too hard,
make sure that you're there to say, okay, we're going
to take a break. Take a long view of youth sports.
Don't look at it as the ticket to college. Look
at it as a ticket to lifelong health.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
And I think that's really good advice as well too.
That's really good advice. We're here with the multi talent
them Deon Coler of More than Playhow law, policy and
politics shape youth American support Here on the Mike Wenders Show. Deon,
very big, thanks you time. You've been absolutely fantastic, learn
a lot, looking for him soon, keeps up to day,
keep in touch, lavavy back and what's your website? How
do people contact you? Bring people purchase or check out
(36:18):
your book? Where can we purchase you dot com? Deoncoler
dot com. We'll check that out once again. Deanna, very big,
thanks you time. You've been absolute amazing, looking forward, having soon,
keeps up to day, keep in touch, lavavy back. We
wish all best and Dion, you definitely have a great
feature you.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
Thank you, Thank you so much. Mike.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
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Call one eight hundred three oh three three nine six
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(36:58):
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take your image to the next level.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Hey there, Dana Laksa here, American news anchor. Hey, let
me ask you something real quick. Why do you read
a book. You're buying a story, a thought, a message,
and a good book entertains and inspires. And that's exactly
what A Missing By Award winning author of Me on
the Zia does. I have his book right here, and
it's based on real events with relatable characters that hook
(37:30):
you from start to finish. I personally love this book.
It's super powerful and meaningful through You can actually get
it on Amazon right now.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book The Sweet Sawmist, now a velve on Emsom.
This book includes thirty exquisite pintings by well known and
unknown painters and King David songs. The Sweet Sawmist gives
us a new perspective on his life in this book
through the songs he wrote. His time as a shepherd
in the field is will. The book starts, and it
goes on to describe his complicated and turbulent relationship with
King Saul, as well as other events. It's a story
(38:00):
of love, betrayal, repentance, and more. It also offers advice
on approaching God and living a life that pleases him.
Check out the book The Sweets Armers by Serena Wager,
now available on Amazon keywords Sweet Sarmis Sorena Wager.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
Thanks for listening to The Mike Wagner Show powered by
Sonicweb Studios. Listit online at Sonicwebstudios dot com for all
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(38:38):
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The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hi This is Morsons are also known as MEA No
Time for Love.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Check out my latest book, Missing, available on Amazon. The
Mike Wagner Show also brought to by The Sweet So
Much by Serena Wagner, Available on Amazon, highlighted up Boge David.
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It's now Time for The Mike Wagner Show. Powered by
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So sit back, relax, and enjoy another great episode of
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Speaker 3 (00:51):
Ever by It's Mike for the Mike Wagner Show, powered
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Mike Wagner Show. Interash Warring out There, Me mulson Zy
are Missing a Veva on Amazon, paperback and ebook coming soon,
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(01:13):
from Serena Wagner, The Sweet Sawmist Amazon keyword Sweet Samast
Serena Wagner. Also check out the Mike Wedners Show. Out
to Mike wadnershow dot Com. Fifty podcast platforms her in
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Anchor FM, Apple Music, bit Shoot, Roma, YouTube and Facebook, SoundCloud, Spreaker, Spotify,
and also all the social manity platforms Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter,
(01:36):
TikTok as well. We're here at the amazing author and
the University of Baltimore School Law professor and the director
of Center for Sport and the Law. We'll get to
more of that. Co chair the Commission on State and
the US Olympics and Paralympics and also executive Board and
Sports Law of the also look at that right US
Anti Doping Agency and also the ad Review Panel and
(01:59):
all so International Sports Law Journal also served on that board.
Has a new book out there which dels in two
YU sport has become all consuming, costly, and in many
cases detriment to boys and girls. The books called More
Than Play, How Law, Policy and Politics Shape American Youth Sport, Live,
Ladies and generalen plus News and Beautiful Downtown Baltimore. The
(02:21):
amazing author University of Baltimore School a Law Professor, director
of the Center for Sport and the Law and the
author's book More Than Play, How Law, Policy and the
Politics Shape American Youth Sport. The multi talent Dion col
It Dion the Warning, Good afternoon, Gaving, thanks for joining
us today.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Hey, thanks for having me here, Mike. It's really terrific
to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
What's great to have you on as well too. A
great city of Baltimore with all the wonderful sports as well,
like the Ools, the Ravens and everything like that. You're
an author University of Baltimore School of Law, Professor and
director of Center for Sport and the Law. You co
chaired the Commission on State of the US Olympics and
the Paralympics and also served on a number of like
the Sports Law of Als and also US Anti Doping
(03:04):
Agency AB and Review Panel, Education Board for the International
Sports and also The new book basically just goes into
why you sport has become all consuming, costly, many cases
detrimental boys and girls, and we'll talk about some of
these dynamics why it's happened. The book is called More
than Play, a Law, Policy and Politics, Shape American Youth Sport.
(03:27):
For getting on that, Deon, tell us how you first
got start?
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Well, I mean, this book is something that I wrote
for personal and professional reasons. I got into sports law
and got interested in this material because, first of all,
I was an athlete growing up. I love sports, and
so for personal reasons, I was very interested in pursuing
sports law and continuing to write about it. I put
(03:53):
my kids into youth sports, and so from a personal angle,
I wanted to certainly be writing about this and working
in this. But from a professional side, Mike, what I
realized is that we just don't have enough legal kind
of writing and scholarship about what's going on in youth sports.
We have a lot from the medical community, from sociology,
(04:15):
from different other academic disciplines, but the legal community has
mostly ignored youth sports. And I thought that there was
a real opportunity here to explain what was going.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
On and why was the legal community of not involved
with us?
Speaker 5 (04:31):
Well, I think one of the things I found in
my research is that the law just assumes that youth
sport is just always a good thing, it's something positive
for kids. And so I think that as lawyers and
legal scholars, we just assumed there's really nothing to say
about youth sports. Isn't it just good and positive and
something everybody should be doing. And so I think many
(04:54):
of us I'm included in this. I've been teaching sports
law now for nearly twenty years, and I never included
it in what I was teaching. I focused on professional
and college sports, and so we just didn't think of
youth sports as something that was deserving of our attention, because, hey,
isn't it all just good? And that's that. But there's
(05:15):
a lot more to the story than that that I found,
and so I thought it was really important to describe that.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Also, maybe think of backyard sports. It doesn't say have
to be like league play sanctioned all that. I mean,
backyard sports that's been missing for quite some time.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
Yeah, we just don't do that nearly as much as
we should. Mike, I mean now, certainly when I was
growing up, there was a lot more free play and
kids just sort of playing in the backyard or down
the street or at a park somewhere. It's now much
more adult led and structured organized youth sports. And that's
one of the things I talk about in the book,
(05:52):
which is over the last thirty years, there's been a
major change in how children even engage with sports. It's
really not like it used to be. And so that
warrants some attention.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
At what point do you think, maybe year wise, decade
wise and everything. And of course, you know, we've been
in free play for quite some time. I mean football, baseball, basketball, hockey,
and everything like that. You just get on the street,
get in someone's yard, or even go to a park
behind the school or out in open land where there's like,
you know, no rules, nothing, no supervision, everything like that.
(06:25):
At what point or maybe in a year or in
a decade or some has that significantly changed from just
gathering a bunch of friends going out to the field
the park and just you know, play whatever, baseball, football, basketball, hockey,
bring a ball, have fun, sunrise the sunset. To get
into where where it's like adults have to be involved,
community has to be involved or you know worse, like
you know, sanctioned lawyers and everything where has gotten the
(06:48):
point where it's like it went from the backyard free
play to becoming you know, just adult directed and everything else.
As you mentioned like what year, what decade, what precise
moment do you guess would that be?
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Well, I don't think there's a precise year, but I
think sports sociologists have said since the nineteen eighties, about
the early nineteen nineties, we start seeing this shift from
more free play into more structured activities. And so about
the early nineteen nineties is when sociologists say parents became
(07:22):
much more interested in putting their kids into activities that
could cultivate skills and help kids develop and sort of
develop measurable outcomes. Right, And we also saw the evolution
of the sports industry. So as the sports industry continues
(07:42):
to grow during this time and explodes in popularity, we
see that leaving kids to just play by themselves is
becoming less popular, and having kids develop skills to become
the next Michael Jordan or next grade athlete becomes more popular.
So there's a lot of different factors, but I think
(08:04):
it's about the late eighties early nineteen nineties what my
research showed in terms of the history, and of course
it's still it's still ongoing, right, We are now continuing
to evolve where youth sport is becoming even more expensive,
adult led, structured organized travel, and so we're right now
(08:26):
at a point in history where we're the farthest away
than we've ever been from that sort of free play
predominant model that certainly was something that when I was
growing up was more common.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Or are some of the factors that involved with the
parents that cause, like, you know, getting more involved and
everything was because work schedules? Was it like salary demands
or schedules or anything. What are some of the precise
factors that made it where it's like you old parents
have to get involved, Like some of the factor will
work or scheduling.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many different factors, Mike, But
certainly there's an idea that this notion that being a
good parent meant that, you know, you put your kids
into activities that can cultivate their talents rather than leaving
kids alone to sort of play. And you know, certainly
when I grew up, you'd go out and play and
you know, be back by dinner, right.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I remember that, yes, right, right, I know adults.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
Were over your shoulder all day. Right. Well, those ideas changed.
That idea that you leave kids to sort of be
free to explore, that idea sort of went intocline and
then it became good parents ensure that their children are
supervised and most importantly supervised and activities that can really
(09:42):
cultivate their talents so that those kids can then you know,
get into good colleges and have a great life in
terms of employment possibilities. The whole idea is you can't
leave kids to sort of develop themselves. You have to
be cultivating them and involved as a parent. So as
those ideas of more involved parenting kind of got swept in.
(10:06):
And certainly as two parent, two income households, you need
things for kids to do to be supervised. So lots
of different factors here, but I think what's feeding into
these general societal factors is obviously the evolution of the
global sports industry. And as we need more athletic talent,
we have to start going into the youth category to
(10:29):
start building that talent along the way.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
And of course you talked about having our supervision everything
like that, how do you think the sports program will
liked with today being so regulated compared to the rest
of the world, and sometimes even like the poorer countries,
you know, the parents will let their kids play soccer,
you know, especially around Brazil, South America and everything. And
with all of these programs, some have become just great
superstars almost like Pele Ronaldo and all that. And of course,
(10:57):
you know, especially baseball, some poor countries even like you know,
some have ended up being like a smaller version of
cal Ripkin from Baltimore.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
Yeah, I mean, lots of countries are doing lots of
different things. And what we know is that around the world,
more and more countries are engaging children in sports, again
because of the development of the global sports industry. And
of course you talk about soccer as a great example.
But in the United States, we don't have a lot
(11:27):
of regulation or policy, like a policy agenda in terms
of government setting goals for kids involvement in sports. From
the perspective of kind of funding a lot of sports,
we don't have a lot of government involvement in sports. Certainly,
the government encourages kids to get involved in sports from
the perspective of it's good for kids. To exercise and
(11:48):
the childhood obesity epidemic and lots of things like that.
But we really don't have kind of a system where, say,
the government is helping to fund youth sports, and lots
of other places in the world, we don't have a
government agency that's in charge of sports or that takes
kind of any supervisory role over youth sports. So what's
(12:10):
happened is youth sport has grown up in the private
sector in the United States unlike in other countries, and
it's gone so expensive that and you bring up the
example of soccer. Soccer in the United States for kids
is now so very expensive that it's a very A
lot of kids can't even access it. They can't play,
they can't get involved. And so without kind of good
(12:34):
publicly funded opportunities, you have a lot of kids that
could be the next Pele and they just can't they
can't access it in an organized way at least.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And do you think government intervention does need to be
involved or do you think or is there a fear
that government could get too much involved hamper in the sports,
hamper in the sports culture, especially with cut sets happening
with Department of Was it government efficiency do you think
would that be necessary during this time or is that
going to you more of a deterrent.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Well, I think certainly there's not a political appetite now
for more government related to anything. But in terms of
whether there's a need for more government involvement in sports,
I think there's a good argument that there is not
a government takeover review sports, not micromanaging Little League, nothing
like that. But if you think about it, Mike, the
government can be involved in a few different ways. First
(13:28):
of all, there's federal government involvement and there's state government involvement.
And the ways that our federal or state governments can
get involved is number one, through more public funding for
kids sports. More kids in this country could participate in sports.
If we went back to more of a recreational league model,
and if we did more public funding so that more
(13:50):
kids could get involved, that would be healthy. It would
probably save us a lot of money in the long
run in terms of health care costs and all the like.
That would be a really good investment. We know sports
does some good things. Right now, we don't have a
lot of public funding for sports, So that's one way
the government could be involved. A second way, the government
can be involved is there could be some at least
minimum safety standards. So, Mike, when we talk about government involvement,
(14:14):
I think we talk about it in generalities and we think, oh,
wait a second, we don't want the government taking everything over.
But there's a whole lot of space in between no
involvement and a takeover right of sports, for say, requiring
coaches to have background checks so that every coach that's
involved with a kid we know, say, doesn't have a
(14:34):
criminal record or something like that. So I think there's
a lot of room for some minimum standards and a
little more funding than we have today, and it could
make a big difference in the lives of kids.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
And speaking of you know, coaches, parents, athletes, and everything
like that, that Dymanic has somehow changed as well too.
In the book More than Play, How Law, policy and
politics shape youth American Sport with Dean Kalo gets that
just one minute. But first you listen to the Mic
Winners Show at the Mic Winners Show dot compowered by
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(15:31):
time to give official shout out to our official sponsor
to the Mic Wider's Show Internaction Worrying Out The Mea
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and more Amazon dot Com slash Me and Wilson's and
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micro winnershow dot com. We're here. It's the amazing author
and the University of Baltimore School law professor and the
director of Center for Sport and the Law Deon Kohler
here on the micro Wayner Show with More than Play,
How law, policy and politics shape youth American sports. He
(17:19):
talked about being involved with with sports as youth. You know,
I did with baseball, some basketball, and a little bit
of tennis, and of course you know, we did a
free thing in hockey and the coaches basically just let
you guide you babysit play and everything. Now that has
shifted to wheres it's like you some have like the
coaches in a different hierarchy. So let's talk about how
(17:43):
that was back in the day we played and how
it is now and what was causing that that changed
in dynamic.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
Yeah, well, again, as as sports for kids has gotten
more adult led and adult organized and supervised, one of
the things is that now the co is the boss
and and there's much more structure. So with free play,
when kids are playing with themselves, they can make up
the rules, they make up the structure, they decide when
(18:10):
they start, when they stop, and and sort of who's
on what team and how it goes. I think we
all remember some of those playground lessons.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Oh yes, and of course the last one being could
be mister irrelevant, like like rock party. It's like last
one pick could be a superstar.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
Right right, right, So, but nowadays the coach is the boss,
and and so that just creates a hierarchy. And it
especially creates some hierarchies because even a lot of parents say, geez,
we don't want to, you know, anger the coach, make
the coach unhappy step in. You know, parents are giving
their authority over to coaches. But a lot of times
(18:50):
these coaches aren't necessarily trained. They they don't have sort
of training in in kind of child development, for instance.
And what we know about the US system is that
quite frequently it just prioritizes kids who are who are
very good at their sport kind of early and quickly.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
But we know that.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Children grow and develop over time and at different ways
in different speeds. And so when you have coaches that
aren't necessarily as trained and schooled in that we can
weed out a lot of kids from our system because
they're you know, they're in the system and they and
a coach says, okay, you're not going to make the
(19:31):
next level of team, and so that's it. There's nowhere
else for the kid to go. So I think that's
one of the unfortunate downsides. I mean, certainly we're more
structured now, you know, we have and there's a lot
of positives with with coaches and involvement and organization, but
there's also some negatives, which is kids can be kind
of labeled you're an athlete and you're not at a
(19:53):
very young age.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And also too, there's been a strong emphasis on winning,
which getting to a point of being real poisons as
well in terms of free play and recreacial part district.
You get out there, have fun, you learn lessons. Even
coaches out there who believe in structure back in the day,
they had no interest in winning. It was just simply
teaching lessons what to do and letter implying life. And
(20:16):
all of a sudden you got coaches out there that
just wins. It seems that, if I'm right, that it
actually discourages kid and just hampers their development and causes
more discouragement if they're pressure to win every single time.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Yeah. I think what we have really good data on
MIKE is that most children who enter youth sports leave
youth sports by the time they're twelve thirteen years old.
Oh and so that is really a stunning statistic. And
what we know is that they leave because of either
over use, injuries or burnout. Those are major factors. And
(20:56):
one of the things that drives over use, injuries and
burnout is this drive to compete, compete, compete and win.
That's hard. That's a sort of professional level demand on
children who aren't developmentally ready to handle it. And again,
what it does is it pushes a lot more kids
out of sports then brings them in. And I think
(21:19):
that's an unfortunate consequence of our overly competitive youth sports system. Certainly,
there are kids who are destined to be elite athletes.
We don't want to shut down the system for those kids,
and for that small percentage of kids that are really
going to go on, they're going to be Olympians, they're
going to be other types of elite athletes. Of course
we want to accommodate that. But the idea that tens
(21:41):
of millions of children, the ones who are participating. Not
everybody's going to be sort of on that elite track,
but we're running a system that is essentially for that
sort of very small number of kids. And so most
kids are quitting, and they're quitting because they're exhausted and
their bodies are exhausted.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Also, I heard the statistic recently too, and if you confirm,
maybe you know, just tweak a little bit that I
heard the statistic, and or for a player be successful
in baseball, you know, just as a shortstop, that the
odds of making was that the high school team was
like one in one hundred or something like that. Then
go to college one in one thousand. Then you have
(22:23):
the minor leagues one in ten thousand, or if you
move up in levels, and then starting shortstop in major
I heard it's like one about one million, three million,
and it's like a really high odds. It's almost like
trying to win the lottery if you become a starting shortstop.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Yeah, I mean, this is really what it's becoming. I mean,
to even play on a college team, Mike. And so
what we know from the research as well is that
parents have completely almost really delusional sort of understandings thinking
my kid's going to beat the odds. My kid's going
to beat the odds. Well, everybody thinks that their kid's
going to beat the odds, and that master it doesn't work.
(23:00):
So certainly, we want to have opportunities for kids to
go on to those higher levels, but we also need
a system that sort of accommodates, nurtures and provides benefits
for all the millions and millions of kids who don't
who don't go on to become a starting shortstop anywhere.
But we want them to have a good sports experience
(23:23):
because we want them to become lifelong exercisers and just
adopt these healthy lifestyles. And so I think there's a
lot of room for improvement from that perspective.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
And plus, for those who decide to go on to
be an athlete, then you got the student athlete you
know in college and everything like that back in the
day where a student athlete is to where you go
on a scholarship or a walk on, you play whatever sport,
you go and get your degree, and then you take
those skills you learn in the classroom and the field
and work on coaches. Then you just move on to
(23:54):
the professional world. But now it's just like the dynamic
has turned where it's like the student athlete is expecting
to be paid. So so I don't know if it's like,
you know, should they pay the student athletes back then
just to keep them in or is this like, are
they waking up to realizing now that hey, I think
it's time to pay them. Even it's even more evident
(24:16):
that you see these jerseys with their numbers on it,
and yet these two athletes getting no money from it.
Speaker 5 (24:23):
Yeah, I mean, Mike, The college athlete athletics model is
a very legally complex situation, and certainly what we have
now with any trust lawsuits, you know, it makes it
even more complex. What we know about college athletics, however,
is that, yes, there's now very strong legal claims for
athletes to make money because college athletics has evolved and everybody,
(24:47):
every congressional investigation has shown that everybody's making college in
college athletics is making money except the athlete, and certainly
for anybody else on campus who was put in the
types of hours that the typical college athlete is putting in,
at least in the revenue generating sports. We'd have to
(25:07):
pay them. Right, if you work sixty hours a week
to work in the college library, we'd have to pay
you a wage. So I think there's some legal issues there.
Those are being sorted out. It's too bad that the
NCAA did and sort these things out before when they
knew their model was was illegal. Right. Yes, having litigation
do it for you is always a painful process, but
(25:29):
I think it's all going to be sorted out. But
what happens is as things change at the college level,
that puts pressure on the youth model. And then parents say, hey,
wait a second, if kids are getting paid in college,
that's even more of a reason for me to push
my kids too hard in youth sports.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
And also too the minorities as well too. Do you
think how that's being affected as well too. You know,
back in the day minorities were are encouraged. Now it's
SEMTV switching to and tunement. It's almost like where do
you draw the line if you include minorities and and
kind of stepping and making sure that you don't get
super by a certain minority. It's like, you know, minority
(26:04):
is also coming to play when it comes to sports.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
Well, I think it's a really hard question when you're
talking about children who are you know, socioeconomically disadvantaged, because
I think one of the unfortunate issues in sports is
that most kids, you know, black children, children of color.
You know, certainly girls don't have as much access to sports,
(26:28):
and certainly, for instance, black males, their primary access is
in football and basketball. They don't have access because it's
just so expensive to for instance, play soccer, swim do
other things. And so we have a model that really
sort of steers certain kids into certain sports and provides
only certain opportunities at a higher level. So I think
(26:51):
more and more if we open sports up, we would
see kids finding sports that best match their talents. I
think that would be good for the country, be good
for our Olympic and Paralympic program, and.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
So oh definitely I love to see that happen. You know,
just have all these in there representing not being forced in.
I love to see that happen.
Speaker 5 (27:11):
We have certainly much more we can do for our
Olympic and Paralympic pipelines. You know, if we if we
opened up more youth sports to more kids and didn't
make it so expensive, so we might finally have a
winning handball.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Team, handball, pickleball, corn corn hole. I mean, I mean,
was it like you got like break dancing, rap dancing,
roller skating. It's like I watched a little bit of
the Olympics, uh last year. It's like I couldn't think
of new sports it came up.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
So yeah, the International Olympic Committee is fighting hard to
try and keep the Olympic movement relevant to young people,
and so rock climbing it is, Mike, It's a little
different than the Olympics of our of our youth.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
I remember that. Yeah too. There's another thing I was
going to mention as well too, nine that has come
into play as well. How do you think Title nine
has benefit so far? Do you think it's still benefited
or it has got to a point where it's hurting
female athletes or is it good to a point where
it's on the verge of bmbu's that are taking advantage
of it.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
Well, you know, the Title nine, it's now over fifty
years old. And what we do know what the data
show about Title line. First of all, Title line only
applies to school based sports programs. It doesn't apply to
anything outside of schools. But what we know very clearly
is Title nine has really never been enforced the way
it should have been enforced, and that girls and women
(28:36):
still don't get the number of participation opportunities that they should.
It's certainly much much better than it used to be,
but we're we're not quite there yet. So one of
the things that I think is important is that we
we move away from sort of these outdated ideas which
we're prevalent up until even just twenty years ago, that
(28:56):
you know, girls weren't interested as interested in sport as boys.
But we now have the numbers and if you look
at high school sports for instance, it's you know, girls
and boys. You know, it's it's it's pretty equal. I mean,
they they the demand is there, and so every kid,
if they have access to it, would like to at
least have an opportunity to play sports. Again, it's expensive,
(29:18):
and then once we get them in the system, we
often drive them out because it's just too competitive.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Right, yeah, hey come on, go go pro, go college. Well,
let's go, let's go.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Right exactly. But since Title nine has been passed, that's
one of the things that has caused our youth sports
system to really explode in terms of an industry is
there are a lot more people who want to play
sports now, m.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
And I think that's really great as well too, and
and of course a bit more as well too. What
can people do to help and everything? We'll be back
with More than Play, How, Law, Policy, Politics, Shape American
Youth Sport with deon caller you listen to The Mic
Wedners Show at the Mic Wednershow dot compowered by Sondweb CDOs.
Write you by official sponsor to The Mike Wagner Show,
(30:02):
Internet Warbring author Memilson's Missing This Swee sawm is by
Serena Wagner, based on life of David Klean. Three Squizz
of Pains King David Salmsamazon dot com keywords Swee Sawmas,
Serena Wagner. We'll be back with Outh there, Dean Kohler
of More than Play, He Law, Policy, Politics, Shape Youth,
American Sport after this time.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
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(30:41):
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Speaker 2 (30:50):
Hey ver, Dana Laxa here, American news anchor. Hey, let
me ask you something real quick. Why do you read
a book. You're buying a story, a thought, a message,
and a good book entertains and inspires. And that's exactly
what a Missing By Award winning author of Me on
the Zia does. I have his book right here, and
it's based on real events with relatable characters that hook
(31:13):
you from start to finish. I personally love this book.
It's super powerful and meaningful through you can actually get
it on Amazon right now.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book The Sweet Sawmist, now availed on Emson. This
book includes thirty exquisite pintings by well known and unknown
painters and King David Salms. The Sweet Sawmist gives us
a new perspective on his life in this book through
the songs he wrote. His time as a shepherd in
the field is will. The book starts and it goes
on to describe his complicated and turbulent relationship with King Saul,
(31:41):
as well as other events. It's a story of love, betrayal, repentance,
and more. It also offers advice and approaching God and
living a life that pleases him. Check out the book
The Sweet Sawmist by Serena Wagner, now available on Amazon
keywords Sweet Sawmist Serena Wagner. Hey, Hey, this is Ray
Powers and boy are you in luck? Right place, right time?
(32:02):
Tuned into the Mike Wagner Show.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
You heard me?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
We're back with out There Dengkohler here on the Mike
Wahner's Show with more than play Hell, law, policy, politics,
shape youth, American sport and just one more thing. If
you were to run the American sports is whether it
be IOC or some agency or whatever as well, what
would you like to see and force and wuld like
to see changes as well.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
Well. I'd really like to see a lot more public
funding for youth sports. I'd like to see all kids
have an opportunity to play sports. I'd like to see
a much broader range of sports options. There's so many
different ways we can engage kids physically it would be
so good for them. We know it is, And if
I were running it, I would make their at least
(32:53):
a minimum MIC, a minimum safety standard, so that coaches
have background checks and parents can have piece mine to
know that they're the people who are around their kids.
Most of them are really really good people, but just
peace of mind to know that, you know, we get
those bad apples out of youth sports.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
And don't forget the referees as well too, don't forget that.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's so much to be done
in youth sports, of course, but anybody who has access
to kids in youth sports I think should have at
least a criminal background.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Check, and I think the grad yeah, drug tasks, everything
like that. You don't, you know, come smelling booze like
the bad News bears. You know those days are cigars small.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Right right, right right right? So you know, in my world,
I wouldn't overly regulate, Mike, but I would just make
sure that some of these minimums are met and that
more kids could get in the game.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
And of course, Leslie, how can we help?
Speaker 5 (33:54):
Well, I think the way to help is to talk
to your state legislators, talk to your federal legislators and
say let's do some common sense things and get get
more kids involved in youth sports. It's good for the country.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
And certainly indeed as well too make it great again.
And where can we find your book More than Play
at and all your works at Dean.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
Well the book. You can find the book anywhere where
books are sold, and you can learn more about me
and my work at my website Dioncohler dot com.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
That's certainly great. We're here with Dion Cohler of More
than Play, How law, policy and politics shape youth American
sport here on the Mike Wenders Show. Just a few
more things, Dian, What else can we expect me in
twenty twenty five and beyond well.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
I'm going to continue talking about the book in twenty
twenty five and continue writing about youth sports. And we
have lots of states now, Mike, that are getting interested
in learning more about what they can do to ensure safe,
positive sport experiences. And so I look forward to working
with any states that are interested in talking about these
things more.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
And we're certainly looking forward to as well. Who do
you consider biggest influence in your career?
Speaker 5 (35:00):
In my career, I would have to say my sports
experience was the biggest My youth sport experience was the
biggest influence in my career because not only did it
get me interested in participating in sports, but it gave
me the life skills needed to forge a career in sports.
It's not you know, we say it so often, you
(35:21):
learn so many great life lessons in youth sports. But
I really look at that and say, I truly did, And.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
I think that's really great as well too. Everybody should
remember that when they're playing. And what's the best advice
you can give to anybody at this point, Well, what.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
I would say is get your kids involved in sports.
But if you're a parent, be an involved parent. When
your kid has gone too far, it feels pushed too hard,
make sure that you're there to say, okay, we're going
to take a break. Take a long view of youth sports.
Don't look at it as the ticket to college. Look
at it as a ticket to lifelong health.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
And I think that's really good advice as well too.
That's really good advice. We're here with the multi talent
them Deon Coler of More than Playhow law, policy and
politics shape youth American support Here on the Mike Wenders Show. Deon,
very big, thanks you time. You've been absolutely fantastic, learn
a lot, looking for him soon, keeps up to day,
keep in touch, lavavy back and what's your website? How
do people contact you? Bring people purchase or check out
(36:18):
your book? Where can we purchase you dot com? Deoncoler
dot com. We'll check that out once again. Deanna, very big,
thanks you time. You've been absolute amazing, looking forward, having soon,
keeps up to day, keep in touch, lavavy back. We
wish all best and Dion, you definitely have a great
feature you.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
Thank you, Thank you so much. Mike.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
you're looking to start or upgrade your online presence, visit
www dot sonicwebstudios dot com for all of your online needs.
Call one eight hundred three oh three three nine six
zero or visit us online at www dot sonicwebstudios dot
(36:58):
com to get started today, mention The Mike Wagner Show
and get twenty percent off your project. Sonic Web Studios
take your image to the next level.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Hey there, Dana Laksa here, American news anchor. Hey, let
me ask you something real quick. Why do you read
a book. You're buying a story, a thought, a message,
and a good book entertains and inspires. And that's exactly
what A Missing By Award winning author of Me on
the Zia does. I have his book right here, and
it's based on real events with relatable characters that hook
(37:30):
you from start to finish. I personally love this book.
It's super powerful and meaningful through You can actually get
it on Amazon right now.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book The Sweet Sawmist, now a velve on Emsom.
This book includes thirty exquisite pintings by well known and
unknown painters and King David songs. The Sweet Sawmist gives
us a new perspective on his life in this book
through the songs he wrote. His time as a shepherd
in the field is will. The book starts, and it
goes on to describe his complicated and turbulent relationship with
King Saul, as well as other events. It's a story
(38:00):
of love, betrayal, repentance, and more. It also offers advice
on approaching God and living a life that pleases him.
Check out the book The Sweets Armers by Serena Wager,
now available on Amazon keywords Sweet Sarmis Sorena Wager.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
Thanks for listening to The Mike Wagner Show powered by
Sonicweb Studios. Listit online at Sonicwebstudios dot com for all
your needs. Mike Wagner Show can be heard on Spreaker, Spotify, iHeartRadio, iTunes,
YouTube Anchor, FM Radio Public, and The Mike Wagner Show
dot Com. Please port our program with your donations at
the Mike Wagnershow dot com. Join us again next time
(38:38):
for another great episode of The Mike Wagner Show
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