Massachusetts author/former MIT Provost/jazz musician and theoretical linguist Samuel Jay Keyser talks about his latest release “Play It Again, Sam: Repetition in the Arts” taking Leonard Bernstein seriously exploring the way repetition works in the sister arts of music, poetry and painting prominent from Homeric Epics, Rainy Day in Paris, Andy Warhol Soup Cans to present day works! Samuel also specializes in the trombone, serves as a theoretical linguist, and has authored numerous books, scientific publications, and editor-in-chief of The Journal Linguistic Inquiry, plus shares the stories behind the works! Check out the amazing Samuel Jay Keyser and his latest release on many major platforms and www.linguistics.mit.edu/user/keyser/ today! #samueljaykeyser #author #massachusetts #formermitprovost #playitagainsam #repitition #repititioninthearts #theorecticallinguist #jazztrombonist #boston #philadelphia #leonardbernstein #music #poetry #painting #homersepics #rainydayinparis #andywarhol #soupcans #thejournallinguisticinquiry #spreaker #iheartradio #spotify #applemusic #youtube #anchorfm #bitchute #rumble #mikewagner #themikewagnershow #mikewagnersamueljaykeyser #themikewagnershowsamueljaykeyser
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Here's an amazing gentleman who's an author and former mit provo
and jazz musician. Plays at Trombone, lives in the Boston area.
Born in Philadelphia, He's also a theoretical linguist and more.
He is an author of numerous books and scientific publications
(01:35):
and editor in chief of the journal Linguistic in Court Inquiry.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Talk more about that.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
He has a book out there which takes on letterburg
signs seriously exploiting the way repetition works in the sister
arts of music. Find more about that. Paint, poetry, painting,
and just about everything else and a lot of things
here involving a repetition. It's called Played against Sam Live,
Ladies and Gentlemen plus two is in beautiful downtown Cambridge, Massachusetts.
(02:02):
The amazing author, former MIT pro vote, jazz musician, and
the author of the book play It Against Sam. The
multi talented Samuel J. Kaiser, better known as Jay Jay.
Good morning, Good afternoon, Giving, Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Good morning, Thank you. I should just say I wasn't
a provost. I was associate provost. Got it? Okay, I
had a boss.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well we all have bosses sometime too, so we'll kie
that right now. So you're an author, former MIT associate
provosts jazz musician playing the trombone. You live in Boston,
you were born in Philly. You authored numerous books, scientific publications,
also editor in chief of the journal Linguistic Inquiry. You
have a new book taking out Leonard Bernstein seriously explain
(02:51):
the way repetition works in these sister arts of music, poetry,
and painting, and also repetition prominent from Homer to epics
to present day. The book is called Play the In Sam.
We're not referring to Humphrey Bogart Before Getting the Light, Jay,
tell us how I first got started.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I'm sorry, I say again, tell us how I.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
First got started? Go way back, way back, machine, way back.
What do you mean as a kid, Yes, correct. Way
back machine, Sherman, way back.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Well, let's see, I think I grew up. Well, I
lived in Philadelphia. I was born in Philadelphia. But what
happened was that there was a time of the Big
Depression and my father moved to Washington to get a job.
(03:47):
The place where he worked he lost his job, and
so when I my earliest memories are in Washington, d c.
Which is he moved there and he found a job
and we found he found a place to live, and
so my mother and I came down about a year
(04:11):
later and we moved into a house at the sixth
and G Southeast. Well, this is sort of an interesting
thing because the house was we rented the house, but
it was owned by the christ Episcopal Church, which was
right next door, and that was the church that John
(04:35):
Phillips Susa went to. Oh wow, okay, yeah. In fact,
ten houses up from that, toward eighth Street, was a
little nondescript read wooden house. The little packs and John's
Phillips Susa lived here. And right across the street from
(04:57):
me was a house which the front lines were always
kept down, but you could see shadows moving behind them occasionally.
And these were two mystery sisters who lived there. They
were sisters of John Phillips, SUSA, and I haven't so
I think that probably the seeds were planted of my
(05:23):
plane the trombone, because I can remember when I was
ten or eleven years old, on Sundays, my mother would
send me up to Eighth Street to buy a roast
for Sunday dinner. And the shop where I got the
roast from was right across the street from the Marine barracks,
(05:46):
and I used to go across the street after I
bought the roast and listen to the Marine band because
they played there when they were parading and doing what
they called the Parade for the Common Dot. And there
was one player in that band who was what they
he was a well what you would call nowadays a monster.
(06:10):
He was just a great, great player. His name was
nobody ever, I think, unless you're a trombone player, and
even then you have to be sort of interested in
this sort of thing. Nobody knows his name, but his
name was Robert Isley, and he was one of those
fantastic virtuosos on the instrument. So that's where I started.
I went to school there. I went to Hine Junior
(06:32):
High and I went to Eastern High I got a scholarship,
and I went to gw and then after George Washington University,
I got a scholarship a fulbright to Oxford, and I
left Washington and I never looked back.
Speaker 5 (06:51):
That is a great story. I am so loving.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
And besides going down to the butcher shop guest Sunday
Rose and listening to the Marines, especially on the trombone
and everything, what we said was at one exact, precise
moment that simply influenced you into what you do in
the rest of career. If it was that watching the Marines,
what was your other one?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well, I think that what happened was that when I
first went to college, I went into college thinking that
I wanted to be a lawyer. I you know, I
didn't know. I didn't know. I was very unsophisticated, and
(07:34):
I thought, well, a lawyer is a good job. I'll
be a lawyer. But when I got to college, I
discovered that I really what I really liked to do
was I like to study. I just liked to be
I like to study things. It was a surprise to me,
but there you have it. I can remember one afternoon
(07:58):
I was at home. I was reading the Romantic poets.
I think maybe it might well have been Coleridge. When
all of a sudden it struck me. Here I am
(08:20):
reading poetry and going to college, and people consider this
worthwhile activity. I'm having the time of my life. This
is just wonderful. Life wasn't supposed to be that way.
I mean, you were supposed to work. And what struck
(08:42):
me was that, well, apparently people considered this work, and
I certainly I loved it. So I gradually made decisions
that led me to the world of scholarship. I started
in English literature, and then when I got my full
Bright and I went to Oxford, I studied Old and
(09:04):
Middle English philology. I read bail Wolf in the original
for example. In fact, one of the teachers that I
had was J. R. R. Tolkien.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Oh my goodness, a teacher over there. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yes, I was there doing his last year. I took two.
I went to a lecture series of years, and I
saw a side of Tolkien that most people were not
privileged to see. I can tell you a little bit
about that if.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
You like, Sure, go ahead, we love it. I love
his books too, by the way, I love it.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Oh yeah, well, Tolkien was a genius anyway. I actually
at one point I met him outside of what they
called schools after his lecture and we started to talk.
I told him how I thought about a lecture which
was very high and we went to a pub and
(10:02):
had a beer together. Nice about I don't know about
ten years ago, I did a series of commentaries for NPR,
and if you look it up, you can google having
a beer with J. R. Tolkien, And I wrote a
commentary about how that went with the part of Tolkien
(10:26):
that I was going to say is that most people
know him as the author of the Fellowship of the Rings,
but he was a great philologists. He understood philologists. Basically,
it means somebody who studies older languages, languages which are
(10:48):
no longer spoken, for example, and studies the phonology, the morphology,
the syntax of it, and also the literature. And the
two lectures that I attended, one of them was on
an Old English poem called the Exodus, and it's about
(11:12):
the exodus of the Jews out of Egypt. And his
translation of the poem was better than the poem. Nice
I mean, read the poem in the Old English and
it's a good poem, but he translated it it became
a great poem, and that was just wonderful. I mean,
(11:36):
he was like one of his wizards. He was just
an amazing man, very nice man. So then I went
from there, I went to Yale. The point was that,
since I loved to study, I tried to stay in
school as long as I possibly could I could avoid work.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
I know some people to do that. I mean, you're
one of them. Many It's okay.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Well I managed to do that until I was twenty seven.
When I got a PhD. I ran out of degrees.
There wasn't anything I could do. I had to get
a job, and as it happened, they were looking for
somebody with just my background at MIT. And I went
(12:27):
up to MIT and I met Noam Chomsky and Marris Hollie,
two of the giants of linguistics. And that was pretty
much it. That's how I got into the field.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
That is rather interesting too, And I was going to
mention as well too.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
Besides J R. R.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Tolkien that you mentioned that you'll being professor and everything.
Who as some of other authors and writers grow up,
especially a favorite books growing up.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I'm sorry say again.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I said, who are seeing other favor authors and writers growing.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Up from my favorite writers and authors. Correct, yes, okay, well,
I don't think you can see it from where you are,
but I have on my bookshelf in the back there,
I have four busts of my four heroes one of them,
(13:26):
and I have them turned in just such a way
so then when I wake up in the morning, we
make eye contact. I unfortunately, you see, this is my study,
but I also sleep here. The reason is that my
wife and I have to sleep in separate rooms because
(13:48):
I had a catastrophic spinal cord injury eleven years ago,
and I have to have a hospital bed, and so
I sleep in this hospital bed, and I have to
lift the head of the bed up, and so I
have it lifted up just so that when my eyes
(14:09):
open in the morning, I'm looking at Leo Told's story,
author of the Brothers Karay, myself the idiot, and I know,
excuse me, I've got the wrong with it. I'm thinking
of the wrong author. I mean the author Leo Tolsley,
(14:29):
the author of Warren Peace.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
Yes, I was just going to say that, but that's
okay though.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, No, Warren Peace is the one that that really
struck me. I think next to a told story is
I'm begueldess Avante's, author of Don Quixote. Nice. Next next
to him is Stuke Ellington.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Oh my gosh as an author, Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Nope, he's a composer. But these are my heroes. And
next to Duke Ellington is J. R. R. Tolki. I'd
also have a bust of Chompsky there, except that the
guy and that does these bust didn't. He never did
Chumpsky too bad anyway, So I think the thing to
(15:24):
tell you is this. It's been my view that the
greater the book, the easier it is to summarize. Uh
and uh. These War in Peace and Don Quixote are,
in my mind two of the great novels of the
(15:45):
of the West. I would add a third, and that
is Remembrances Larry Shuts, the Tope that Ah in search
of Lost Time. Uh uh and I would say to
(16:06):
you this Tolstoy's War and Peace can be summarized in
a single sentence, which is that the point of it
is that you can't control events. People think they can,
But our lives are not like straight lines. They're not
like Roman roads. They're like a pinball going down a
(16:34):
pinball machine, they make a zigzag line and you just
And the reason is that although you think you might
be controlling events, you can don Quixote. The point of
don Quixote is to live life to the fullest. Remember
he's the guy who tilted at windmills. He actually thought
he was a knight, and he went and addressed himself
(16:57):
as a knight. He had a companion called Central Clumpson,
and they went out into the world to fight, uh,
to achieve the impossible dream that were said, wonderful, uh musical.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
I remember that. Yes, the whole.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Point of don Quixote is to enjoy life to the fools,
I mean, to the force. You've got to be crazy.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
That's so.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I think that's I think that's really I think that's
really great. Out to start picking up those two books
after we're done. You talked about starting up at N
I T M I T. Will talk about wire of
your books and cleaning the Men's a Mania. Talk more
about that with Samuel jay Kaiser, but first listened to
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We're here the amazing author and former mi T associate
provosts jazz musicians the Trombone mL J Kaiser here on
The Mike Waders Show with played against Sam. And before
we get to that Jay, we're not referring to the
Humphrey Bogart version. You talked about getting the minds of
(20:10):
MIT your first book, Men's and Mania, the Mit Nobody knew,
And tell us more about that one.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Well, I was a social pro rooms for that MIT
from let's say I think nineteen roughly nineteen eighty five
to nineteen ninety three, and at that time I was
social pros groups for educational policies and programs. But what
(20:42):
happened was that the job sort of beta MorphOS into
one which really came down to complaint handling. I became
involved in some issues that are very difficult issues to
handle it in any university. A sexual harassment was one,
(21:07):
and another issue was of course student protest. And I
experienced I was sort of my professional life as an
associate provost. I was in the heart of dealing with
what I would genuinely say is alternative dispute resolution. And
(21:30):
so at the end of about eight years, nine years
in that job, I decided that I'd had enough that
I wanted to stop, and I wrote a book about
my experiences. And in that book, I tried to be
honest as I could about the culture of university. And
(21:54):
I think it was very important now because you know,
because of a the Israeli Palestinian conflict, that protest showed
up on campuses and it's had a drastic effect on
American education now with the many of our major universities
(22:20):
being under attack. UH. And I tried to to give
in that book an account of how hard it is
to run a university. It's not like anything. It's not
like a business, and it's not like a government, and
(22:42):
it's the business plan is non sustainable. You depend uh
as whom Camp wrote UH for the line for one
of his character is that you depend on the kindness
(23:03):
of strangers in order to survive. And I'm really quite
worried because I don't think I don't think people understand
how hard it is to run a university. What universities
are good at is making contributions to knowledge. But if
(23:24):
you different games, like a referee of fight, that's not
what they're good at. They weren't. They're not trained for that.
What they're trained for it is to push back the
walls of ignorance. And that's been a tremendous force, tremendous
good in the United States. I mean, if you think
(23:47):
about all of the amazing things that universities have made possible,
artificial intelligence, uh uh, the whole understanding of how the
genome works, the coding of the human genome is these
(24:10):
are monumental achievements. Now we're working on quantum mechanics. And
to attack a university it's really like chewing off your
right arm. It's just for no good reason at all.
M h.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
And I think that's something to bring up. You brought
the us M I t out and everything else, and
plus you had a couple of other books. I'm married
a travel junkie, and also raising, the raising the dead,
the pod God, and other stories, and tell us more
about that the pond God.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
I like that one.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Well. I I once attended a lecture at the Museum
of Fine Art with my wife and the lecture was
about the famous medieval etcher who went by the name
(25:09):
of E. That was just his name of the letter E.
And after a while, in the middle of the lecture,
I was getting fidgety because it was not that good
a lecture, and I was getting a little bored. And
my wife could tell that I was getting board, and
(25:29):
so what she did was she shoved a notebook and
a pencil in in front of me and said, write something.
And so I started to write a story and it
ended up I liked what I wrote, And what had
come into my mind was the haunted Haunt of Virus.
(25:56):
Now do you know about the Haunt of virus?
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Know?
Speaker 5 (26:01):
But I like to hear more about it, or we should.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Well, you might remember that, oh maybe twenty years ago,
the Navajo around Albuquerque and Santa Fe were dying of
a mysterious disease, and nobody knew why they were dying.
They would just suddenly be taken very ill and die
(26:30):
and A reporter from Cambridge, I think he worked for
the Globe, was sent out to cover the story and
he spoke to a Novajo wise man, a shaman. Asked
the shaman, he said to the shaman, what do you
think is happening? And the shaman said that his people,
(26:56):
in his view, had lost their way. That they had
their mission in life was to protect as guardians the earth,
and they had lost their way in doing that, and
they had become dissolute and discouraged. That was what he said,
(27:23):
but that's not how he said it. What he said,
in fact to the reporter was I've seen a god
on the horizon and that's what that. When the reporter
made further inquiry, he found out that that's what it meant.
That was a sign that his people were in trouble,
(27:45):
and that they had given up their mission on earth,
which was to guard the earth, to treat it a
sacred object to be new, should nurture and not destroyed. Well,
that line, I saw a God on the horizon really
(28:07):
appealed to me, and so I decided to write. And
that one first story that I wrote when my wife
gave me that book and that pencil, was about a
God on the horizon, and these stories in the Pond
God and other stories are stories about gods who were
(28:30):
walk the face of the earth before people were here.
Each story is two hundred lines long, and none of
the stories, every one of the stories contains a mention
of a god on the horizon. And that was the
form that I did, and so I put these together.
(28:53):
I don't know, I wrote maybe thirty five of these stories.
I'll tell you once it will give you an idea.
And then a funny thing happened. I knew a I
met a man who had gone to m I t Uh.
He was a chemist, but he studied chemistry, but in
(29:21):
the last in the when he graduated, he spent uh
the the first nine years of his life as a wrestler.
Professional wrestler. Okay, he was known as Killer Goodman. And
I met him and he was given I was giving
(29:46):
a lecture in uh in Florida, and he happened to
be at this institute where I was lecturing, and we
met and I liked him instantly.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
His name.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
He was known as Bino Bino Good Band. The reason
why he was known as Bino was because he ran
the Bino game at the revered on at the Revere
Beach where there were these arcades at the time, and
that's Bino had a granddaughter and her granddaughter once she
(30:27):
was taking a seminar in New York City uh in publishing.
And you remember I said to you earlier that this
is what life is like. It's like a pinball. So
the story which is which is basically the pinball whose
label was the Pondad and other stories. So she was
(30:50):
supposed to come up with a project of writing a book,
putting a book together as an editor, putting it together,
designing it, planning it, and then seeing it through production
and seeing it out into the real world. So she
asked her grandfather if he knew of any text that
(31:10):
she could use, and the grandfather said, well, my friend
Jay has written thirty five stories. I'll ask him to
send them to you. And he said would you send them?
And I said, sure, Bin, I'd be glad to her.
So I said her the stories, and she did her
thing in the seminar. What's interesting was when she showed
the poems to the leader of the seminar, the leader said, no,
(31:34):
these are not good, these are not poems. These don't work.
You've got to get something else. She said, no, I
want to do these. I like these, and she argued
with the teacher, and the teacher finally gave in. She
could have given up, but she didn't, and so she
put the book together. And then at the end of
(31:54):
this seminar, what happened was they brought in professionals from
the publishing business. And then what you were supposed to
do was to give them your spiel with the book
in hand. And he did that and one of the
professionals said to her who wrote these? And she said, well,
(32:18):
I don't know. He's a friend of my father's. And
he said, well, are they published? And she said, well,
I don't think so. And he said, well, I want
to publish them nice and so he published them. It
was published with Front Street Press, and it won a prize.
I'll notice I wrote these for myself. I didn't send
(32:41):
them out to anybody. I didn't send them out to
an agent. I didn't send them out to somebody to
try to sell them. I just wrote them. And they
had took on a life of their own. And that's
what life is like. So you wanted to know, God,
that's where the pun God. Now I'll tell you one
of this pond god's story. Raise. Once there was a
(33:03):
god who could only walk in straight lines, and one
day he found a boulder in his path, and so
he was forced to stand there. Another god came along
and said, why are you standing in front of that boulder?
(33:24):
But the god was ashamed to tell him that he
could only walk in straight lines. So he said, Once
there was a god who died and turned into stone.
And I am standing here and I am doing I'm
giving my respect to this departed god. And so the
(33:46):
other god said, well, let me let me join you.
And the two of them stood there until both of
them turned to stone. And then the story with my saying,
and that is how two people can share a fate
that only one deserves. And that's what the stories look like.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
And I think that's really great as well too. Some
repetition Airli like man, we'll speak of repetition. We have
the book played against sam we'll talk the more about
that with Samuel J. Kaiser. You listen to the Mike
Widers Show at the.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Mike wadnershow Dot compowered by SONDKWB Studios, Brought to you
byroficsial sponsor to The Mike Widner's Show, Interdution, war Ring Out,
the Memstens, Missing the Sweets Homist by Serena Wagner, based
on Life of David says Quiz the Pains and Kingdavid
psalms the sweetsamat Amazon dot com. Keyword sweet Sma Serena Wagner.
We'll be back with the Multi Town Samuel Jake Kaiser.
I'll play it against Sam Halfter this time.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
you're looking to start or upgrade your online presence, visit
www dot Sonicwebstudios dot com for all of your online needs.
Call one eight hundred three oh three three nine six
zero or visit us online and at www dot sonicwebstudios
(35:03):
dot com to get started Today, mention The Mike Wagner
Show and get twenty percent off your project. Sonic weeb
Studios take your image to the next level.
Speaker 6 (35:12):
Hey there, Dana Laksa here, American news anchor. Hey, let
me ask you something real quick. Why do you read
a book. You're buying a story, a thought, a message,
and a good book entertains and inspires. And that's exactly
what a Missing by award winning author me on the
Zia Does. I have his book right here, and it's
based on real events with relatable characters that hook you
(35:35):
from start to finish. I personally love this book. It's
super powerful and meaningful through You can actually get it
on Amazon right now.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book The Sweet Sawmist, now a velbon Emsom. This
book includes thirty exquisite pintings by well known and unknown
painters and King David Soalms. The Sweet Sawmist gives us
a new perspective on his life in this book through
the songs he wrote. His time as a shepherd in
the field is where the book starts, and it goes
on to describe his complicated and turbulent relationship with King Saul,
(36:03):
as well as other events. It's a story of love, betrayal, repentance,
and more. It also offers advice on approaching God and
living a life that pleases him. Check out the book
The Sweet Sawmist by Serena Wagner, now available on Amazon
keywords Sweet Salmist, Serena Wagner. Hey, Hey, this is Ray
Powers and boy are you in luck, right Place, right time,
(36:24):
tuned into the Mike Wagner Show.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
You heard me.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Rebecca author Samuel Jake Kaiser here the Mike Waters Show,
and played against Sam. We talked about a couple of
his books, so being a jazz musician for Mit, associated
Provost and everything else.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
Play against Sam.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
This one uses repetition and you just take Leonard burdsign
very seriously exploring how it works, and tell us more
about that and why Leonard Burdsign Well.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Bernstein gave a series of lectures at Harvard and those
lectures were called the Norton Lectures. Very famous people gave
those lectures. Stravinsky gave a set of lectures, for example,
in the same city. Bernstein's lectures were actually not only
(37:18):
were they videotape, but they were also published in a
book called The Unanswered Question, Okay, And in that one
of the lectures, he said that he thought that the
reason why there had been so little progress made in
music theory was because theorists have not paid attention to
(37:46):
the role of repetition and music. And I thought that
that was a very interesting comment, and it's one of
those comments that sort of rolls around in the back
of your mind. I mean, it's always there and you
think it's important, but you don't really focus on it.
And then one day a friend of mine brought my
(38:09):
attention an experiment that was done by a woman by
the name of Elizabeth Helmuth Margoulis. She's a musicologist at
Princeton University. She did a very interesting experiment, and this
will I think I'll give you the heart of the matter. Okay.
She took the work of two famous Atonal composers, Elliott
(38:38):
Carter and Luciano Burrio, and she adopted them.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
The way she adopted them was that she took the
brute force cut and paste function of a computer, copy
the section of the music and placed it elsewhere, start
down the line. So if you can imagine, let's say
the music is proposed of let's say five segments one, two, three, four,
(39:10):
and five. Copied one and she then inserted it after one,
so that now the new piece of music, which was
the doctored version, not the original, would be one, one, two, three, four, five.
And then she took another she docted it in a
different way. She put the copied version farther down the stream.
(39:35):
So now she created yet a second doctored version of
the form one two, three, one four five. You got that, yes,
So then she had now four pieces of music. I
mean she had the original of Verio, the original of Carter,
the Doctor Barrio, the Doctor Carter. The first thing she
(39:59):
did was to play to her students. These were people
who liked music. They hadn't any particular they these were
music appreciation students, they didn't have any particular training in music.
And she just asked them which versions they liked best,
and it turned out that they liked the Doctor versions
better than the originals.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Then then she went to a conference and in the conference,
the attendees were all PhDs in music. They were musicologists.
They knew the theory, they knew they knew the stuff
of business. Colde he ran the same experiment, and guess what,
they also preferred the Doctor versions.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
Wow. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
What Mark Goulis concluded, and I think quite sensibly, was
that simply repeating something makes it pleasure. That's why these people,
she said, it adds aesthetic value to the piece of work,
to the work. And then paid attention and I started
(41:08):
looking at the way in which repetition works. And I'm
not gonna we have enough time for me to go
into the details of it. I mean, if anybody who's
listening to your program is interested, they can read the book.
But here's what I show. I show that exactly the
same mechanism that made those doctored pieces of music work.
(41:32):
It is exactly the same mechanism that makes rhyming poetry work.
And it's exactly the same mechanism that makes Andy Warhols
table soup cans a great painting. And why it shows
why the photographs of Ronnie Horn, for example, or Leaf Freedlander,
(41:54):
some of those work. And that's basically what my book
is about. Don't know it when you see these needs,
but these things are using repetition subliminally, and that's appealing
to your your mental hardware, which is designed to find repetition,
(42:15):
and when you find it, you get a jolt of pleasure. Now,
you might say, why should I be the case, Well,
that's because repetition, that kind of repetition was built into
our mechanism, in my opinion, by the processes of evolution.
Because it's what makes a baby bond to his mother's face.
(42:39):
The repeated, the repeated viewing of the child of the
infant of a face causes mere exposure causes the child
to bond with the face and what is sent and
that the reason why that's important is because the child
(43:00):
has to know that when it's in the environment of
that face, it's in a safe environment and some nature
in order to sort of enhance that relationship use pleasure.
It's not the only thing that nature uses pleasure for.
(43:23):
Sex is driven by pleasure, same sort of thing. And
what I propose in the book is that artists co
opted that relationship between repetition and pleasure when they constructed
works of art.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
That is interesting. Of course, it goes from like Homer
to epics to the present day. I mean, you have
fins some really good stuff. We do want people to
read more of the book. Now give it away?
Speaker 5 (43:54):
And where can you find all your books at? Including
Play It against Him?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Well? That's really nice? Agree? Did you did you ask
me a question?
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Where can you find your books at? Including Play It
Against Sam?
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Oh? Well, I think your best bet is to just
go on the internet. Just search out the Kaiser and
the title. The Mi T Press is the press that
published Play It Against Sam? Front Street Press. But nobody
will remember that. Just Google the titles of my name,
(44:33):
and if I'm lucky and you're lucky, you'll find it.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
And what is the website, Jay, I don't have one,
not yet, okay, So just find it on Amazon or
Barnes and Noble or a your favorites as well, so
we'll have everybody check it out. Here we're here at
the multi talented Samuel J. Kaiser of Play It against
Sam and Moore here on the Mike Wayners Show. Jay,
it's been great as well too. Love to have you
(44:59):
back and love to hear more your stories and what
else can we expect from you in twenty twenty five
and beyond.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Well, since you ask, I just I some time ago
I wrote a body of poetry, which again this is
the pinball hypothesis. I've written them and I never sent
them out. I just wrote them because I like to
(45:26):
write them. And I met oh. I think it must
be fifteen years ago. I met a young man in Bhutan.
My wife and I were visiting Bhutan and we met
this young man who was a composer and a pianist.
And about two years ago he called me and he said, Jay,
(45:49):
do you have any of your poems? I'd like to
see them. I said, well, I do have twenty two
a batch of them that I can show you. Actually
it was more than me, and I sent them to him.
He wrote me and he says, I love these. I
want to set them to music. Nice. He recently did
(46:10):
just that, and they were just recently published. The title
of that is called The World Is Filled with Empty Places.
It just came out. And what really blew me away
was you know about ASCAP? Yes, okay, so ASCAP. Every
(46:36):
week they put out a playlist of recommended titles, okay,
guarded if they didn't take a track from our from
Peter Stevens, he's the composer and my poems and listed
as one of the tracks that they were recommending, along
with tunes by rock groups. I thought, that's great. So
(46:58):
that's what I think they're coming. You will. I will
continue to practice my horn. I do that every night. Actually, okay, uh,
I don't know. I've written a couple of tunes. Maybe
I'll write some more. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
We'll see okay, right, well, only if we're looking forward
to that. And who do you consider biggest influence.
Speaker 5 (47:20):
In your career?
Speaker 2 (47:22):
My biggest influence in what in your career. Well, I
think it has to be Marris Hally and Noam Chum Steve.
Speaker 5 (47:32):
Okay, and what is the best advice you can give
to any boy at this point?
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Uh, hunker down.
Speaker 5 (47:46):
I like that and I think that's well said too.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
Here with the multi talent same old Jay Kaiser of
played against Sam here La Mike Waders Show.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
Jay, very big thanks for timing.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
You've been a fantastic learned a lot, looking forward to
having soon keep it up to they keeping touch lavavy
back and of course where can we find all your books?
Speaker 5 (48:04):
And how how can people get a hold of you?
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Jay? Well, I guess my Uh, I mean just you
can find me on Facebook. I'm on Facebook. That's a way, okay.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I will certainly check that out once again, Jay, a
very big thanks, the time you've been absent, amazing, looking
forward him soon keeps it up today, keep in touch
lavavy Back. We wish our best and Jay, you definitely
have a great feature.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
He thank you so much. Mike. It's really been great
talking to you and I appreciate you giving me your time.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
you're looking to start or upgrade your online presence. Visit
www dot Sonicwebstudios dot com for all of your online needs.
Call one eight hundred three oh three three nine six
zero or visit us online at www dot Sonicwebstudios dot
(48:56):
com to get started today, Mention The Mike Wagner Show
and get twenty percent off your project. Sonic Web Studios
take your image to the next level.
Speaker 6 (49:05):
Hey there, Dana Laksa here, American news anchor. Hey, let
me ask you something real quick. Why do you read
a book. You're buying a story, a thought, a message,
and a good book entertains and inspires. And that's exactly
what's a missing by award winning author me on the
Zia does. I have his book right here, and it's
based on real events with relatable characters that hook you
(49:28):
from start to finish. I personally love this book. It's
super powerful and meaningful through you can actually get it
on Amazon right now.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book The Sweet Sawmist now a velbon Emsom. This
book includes thirty exquisite pintings by well known and unknown
painters and King David Salms The Sweet Sawmist gives us
a new perspective on his life in this book through
the songs he wrote. His time as a shepherd in
the field is where the book starts, and it goes
on to describe his complicated and turbulent relationship with King Saul,
(49:56):
as well as other events. It's a story of love, betrayal, repentance,
and it also offers advice on approaching God and living
a life that pleases in check out the book The
Sweets Armers by Serena Wagner, now available on Amazon keywords
Sweet Sarmis Sorena Wager.
Speaker 4 (50:13):
Thanks for listening to The Mike Wagner Show, powered by
Sonicweb Studios. Lisit online at Sonicwebstudios dot com for all
your needs. The Mike Wagner Show can be heard on Spreakers, Spotify, iHeartRadio, iTunes,
YouTube Anchor, FM Radio Public, and The Mike Wagner Show
dot Com. Please port our program with your donations at
the Mike Wagnershow dot com. Join us again next time
(50:35):
for another great episode of The Mike Wagner Show.
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hi This is Morsons are also known as MEA No
Time for Love. Check out my latest book Missing, available
on Amazon.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
The Mike Wagner Show also brought to by The Sweet
So Much by Serena Wagner, available on Amazon. Highlighted up
Boge David.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
It's now time for The Mike Wagner Show. Powered by
Sonic Web Studios. Listit online at sonicqueb studios dot com
for all your needs. The Mike Wagner Show can be
heard on Spreaker, Spotify, iHeartRadio, YouTube, iTunes, Anchor, FM Radio Public,
and The Mike Wagner Show dot Com. Mike brings you
great guests and interesting people from all across the globe.
(00:40):
So sit back, relax, and enjoy another great episode of
The Mike Wagner Show.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Everybody, It's Mike from The Mike Widner Show powered by
Sarkqweb Studios. Write to Birofessional sponsor to The Mike Wadner Show.
You're us worrying out there. Mea multons They are missing
on Amazon and paperback in the ebook coming soon. Missing
to double a spence, double fund check it out on
Amazon a Sprits by the Sweet Somist by Serena Wagner
based on Life of Davi, including thirty squids of Pings,
King David Solms and more. Amazon dot com keywords Sweet Somist,
(01:14):
Serena Wagner and check out to Mike Waidner, showt Mike
Wadnershoilt dot Com, forty podcast platforms on the country worldwide.
Here's an amazing gentleman who's an author and former mit provo
and jazz musician. Plays at Trombone, lives in the Boston area.
Born in Philadelphia, He's also a theoretical linguist and more.
He is an author of numerous books and scientific publications
(01:35):
and editor in chief of the journal Linguistic in Court Inquiry.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Talk more about that.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
He has a book out there which takes on letterburg
signs seriously exploiting the way repetition works in the sister
arts of music. Find more about that. Paint, poetry, painting,
and just about everything else and a lot of things
here involving a repetition. It's called Played against Sam Live,
Ladies and Gentlemen plus two is in beautiful downtown Cambridge, Massachusetts.
(02:02):
The amazing author, former MIT pro vote, jazz musician, and
the author of the book play It Against Sam. The
multi talented Samuel J. Kaiser, better known as Jay Jay.
Good morning, Good afternoon, Giving, Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Good morning, Thank you. I should just say I wasn't
a provost. I was associate provost. Got it? Okay, I
had a boss.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well we all have bosses sometime too, so we'll kie
that right now. So you're an author, former MIT associate
provosts jazz musician playing the trombone. You live in Boston,
you were born in Philly. You authored numerous books, scientific publications,
also editor in chief of the journal Linguistic Inquiry. You
have a new book taking out Leonard Bernstein seriously explain
(02:51):
the way repetition works in these sister arts of music, poetry,
and painting, and also repetition prominent from Homer to epics
to present day. The book is called Play the In Sam.
We're not referring to Humphrey Bogart Before Getting the Light, Jay,
tell us how I first got started.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I'm sorry, I say again, tell us how I.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
First got started? Go way back, way back, machine, way back.
What do you mean as a kid, Yes, correct. Way
back machine, Sherman, way back.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Well, let's see, I think I grew up. Well, I
lived in Philadelphia. I was born in Philadelphia. But what
happened was that there was a time of the Big
Depression and my father moved to Washington to get a job.
(03:47):
The place where he worked he lost his job, and
so when I my earliest memories are in Washington, d c.
Which is he moved there and he found a job
and we found he found a place to live, and
so my mother and I came down about a year
(04:11):
later and we moved into a house at the sixth
and G Southeast. Well, this is sort of an interesting
thing because the house was we rented the house, but
it was owned by the christ Episcopal Church, which was
right next door, and that was the church that John
(04:35):
Phillips Susa went to. Oh wow, okay, yeah. In fact,
ten houses up from that, toward eighth Street, was a
little nondescript read wooden house. The little packs and John's
Phillips Susa lived here. And right across the street from
(04:57):
me was a house which the front lines were always
kept down, but you could see shadows moving behind them occasionally.
And these were two mystery sisters who lived there. They
were sisters of John Phillips, SUSA, and I haven't so
I think that probably the seeds were planted of my
(05:23):
plane the trombone, because I can remember when I was
ten or eleven years old, on Sundays, my mother would
send me up to Eighth Street to buy a roast
for Sunday dinner. And the shop where I got the
roast from was right across the street from the Marine barracks,
(05:46):
and I used to go across the street after I
bought the roast and listen to the Marine band because
they played there when they were parading and doing what
they called the Parade for the Common Dot. And there
was one player in that band who was what they
he was a well what you would call nowadays a monster.
(06:10):
He was just a great, great player. His name was
nobody ever, I think, unless you're a trombone player, and
even then you have to be sort of interested in
this sort of thing. Nobody knows his name, but his
name was Robert Isley, and he was one of those
fantastic virtuosos on the instrument. So that's where I started.
I went to school there. I went to Hine Junior
(06:32):
High and I went to Eastern High I got a scholarship,
and I went to gw and then after George Washington University,
I got a scholarship a fulbright to Oxford, and I
left Washington and I never looked back.
Speaker 5 (06:51):
That is a great story. I am so loving.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
And besides going down to the butcher shop guest Sunday
Rose and listening to the Marines, especially on the trombone
and everything, what we said was at one exact, precise
moment that simply influenced you into what you do in
the rest of career. If it was that watching the Marines,
what was your other one?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well, I think that what happened was that when I
first went to college, I went into college thinking that
I wanted to be a lawyer. I you know, I
didn't know. I didn't know. I was very unsophisticated, and
(07:34):
I thought, well, a lawyer is a good job. I'll
be a lawyer. But when I got to college, I
discovered that I really what I really liked to do
was I like to study. I just liked to be
I like to study things. It was a surprise to me,
but there you have it. I can remember one afternoon
(07:58):
I was at home. I was reading the Romantic poets.
I think maybe it might well have been Coleridge. When
all of a sudden it struck me. Here I am
(08:20):
reading poetry and going to college, and people consider this
worthwhile activity. I'm having the time of my life. This
is just wonderful. Life wasn't supposed to be that way.
I mean, you were supposed to work. And what struck
(08:42):
me was that, well, apparently people considered this work, and
I certainly I loved it. So I gradually made decisions
that led me to the world of scholarship. I started
in English literature, and then when I got my full
Bright and I went to Oxford, I studied Old and
(09:04):
Middle English philology. I read bail Wolf in the original
for example. In fact, one of the teachers that I
had was J. R. R. Tolkien.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Oh my goodness, a teacher over there. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yes, I was there doing his last year. I took two.
I went to a lecture series of years, and I
saw a side of Tolkien that most people were not
privileged to see. I can tell you a little bit
about that if.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
You like, Sure, go ahead, we love it. I love
his books too, by the way, I love it.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Oh yeah, well, Tolkien was a genius anyway. I actually
at one point I met him outside of what they
called schools after his lecture and we started to talk.
I told him how I thought about a lecture which
was very high and we went to a pub and
(10:02):
had a beer together. Nice about I don't know about
ten years ago, I did a series of commentaries for NPR,
and if you look it up, you can google having
a beer with J. R. Tolkien, And I wrote a
commentary about how that went with the part of Tolkien
(10:26):
that I was going to say is that most people
know him as the author of the Fellowship of the Rings,
but he was a great philologists. He understood philologists. Basically,
it means somebody who studies older languages, languages which are
(10:48):
no longer spoken, for example, and studies the phonology, the morphology,
the syntax of it, and also the literature. And the
two lectures that I attended, one of them was on
an Old English poem called the Exodus, and it's about
(11:12):
the exodus of the Jews out of Egypt. And his
translation of the poem was better than the poem. Nice
I mean, read the poem in the Old English and
it's a good poem, but he translated it it became
a great poem, and that was just wonderful. I mean,
(11:36):
he was like one of his wizards. He was just
an amazing man, very nice man. So then I went
from there, I went to Yale. The point was that,
since I loved to study, I tried to stay in
school as long as I possibly could I could avoid work.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
I know some people to do that. I mean, you're
one of them. Many It's okay.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Well I managed to do that until I was twenty seven.
When I got a PhD. I ran out of degrees.
There wasn't anything I could do. I had to get
a job, and as it happened, they were looking for
somebody with just my background at MIT. And I went
(12:27):
up to MIT and I met Noam Chomsky and Marris Hollie,
two of the giants of linguistics. And that was pretty
much it. That's how I got into the field.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
That is rather interesting too, And I was going to
mention as well too.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
Besides J R. R.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Tolkien that you mentioned that you'll being professor and everything.
Who as some of other authors and writers grow up,
especially a favorite books growing up.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I'm sorry say again.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I said, who are seeing other favor authors and writers growing.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Up from my favorite writers and authors. Correct, yes, okay, well,
I don't think you can see it from where you are,
but I have on my bookshelf in the back there,
I have four busts of my four heroes one of them,
(13:26):
and I have them turned in just such a way
so then when I wake up in the morning, we
make eye contact. I unfortunately, you see, this is my study,
but I also sleep here. The reason is that my
wife and I have to sleep in separate rooms because
(13:48):
I had a catastrophic spinal cord injury eleven years ago,
and I have to have a hospital bed, and so
I sleep in this hospital bed, and I have to
lift the head of the bed up, and so I
have it lifted up just so that when my eyes
(14:09):
open in the morning, I'm looking at Leo Told's story,
author of the Brothers Karay, myself the idiot, and I know,
excuse me, I've got the wrong with it. I'm thinking
of the wrong author. I mean the author Leo Tolsley,
(14:29):
the author of Warren Peace.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
Yes, I was just going to say that, but that's
okay though.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, No, Warren Peace is the one that that really
struck me. I think next to a told story is
I'm begueldess Avante's, author of Don Quixote. Nice. Next next
to him is Stuke Ellington.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Oh my gosh as an author, Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Nope, he's a composer. But these are my heroes. And
next to Duke Ellington is J. R. R. Tolki. I'd
also have a bust of Chompsky there, except that the
guy and that does these bust didn't. He never did
Chumpsky too bad anyway, So I think the thing to
(15:24):
tell you is this. It's been my view that the
greater the book, the easier it is to summarize. Uh
and uh. These War in Peace and Don Quixote are,
in my mind two of the great novels of the
(15:45):
of the West. I would add a third, and that
is Remembrances Larry Shuts, the Tope that Ah in search
of Lost Time. Uh uh and I would say to
(16:06):
you this Tolstoy's War and Peace can be summarized in
a single sentence, which is that the point of it
is that you can't control events. People think they can,
But our lives are not like straight lines. They're not
like Roman roads. They're like a pinball going down a
(16:34):
pinball machine, they make a zigzag line and you just
And the reason is that although you think you might
be controlling events, you can don Quixote. The point of
don Quixote is to live life to the fullest. Remember
he's the guy who tilted at windmills. He actually thought
he was a knight, and he went and addressed himself
(16:57):
as a knight. He had a companion called Central Clumpson,
and they went out into the world to fight, uh,
to achieve the impossible dream that were said, wonderful, uh musical.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
I remember that. Yes, the whole.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Point of don Quixote is to enjoy life to the fools,
I mean, to the force. You've got to be crazy.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
That's so.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I think that's I think that's really I think that's
really great. Out to start picking up those two books
after we're done. You talked about starting up at N
I T M I T. Will talk about wire of
your books and cleaning the Men's a Mania. Talk more
about that with Samuel jay Kaiser, but first listened to
the Mike Wadners Show. At the Mike Waders Show Dot
(17:50):
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Check it out on Amazon.
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Also Bright to Buy a Sweet Salmus by Serena Why
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Is starf love, betrayal, Repatants.
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Check out The Sweet Sos by Sreen White on Amazon
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We're here the amazing author and former mi T associate
provosts jazz musicians the Trombone mL J Kaiser here on
The Mike Waders Show with played against Sam. And before
we get to that Jay, we're not referring to the
Humphrey Bogart version. You talked about getting the minds of
(20:10):
MIT your first book, Men's and Mania, the Mit Nobody knew,
And tell us more about that one.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Well, I was a social pro rooms for that MIT
from let's say I think nineteen roughly nineteen eighty five
to nineteen ninety three, and at that time I was
social pros groups for educational policies and programs. But what
(20:42):
happened was that the job sort of beta MorphOS into
one which really came down to complaint handling. I became
involved in some issues that are very difficult issues to
handle it in any university. A sexual harassment was one,
(21:07):
and another issue was of course student protest. And I
experienced I was sort of my professional life as an
associate provost. I was in the heart of dealing with
what I would genuinely say is alternative dispute resolution. And
(21:30):
so at the end of about eight years, nine years
in that job, I decided that I'd had enough that
I wanted to stop, and I wrote a book about
my experiences. And in that book, I tried to be
honest as I could about the culture of university. And
(21:54):
I think it was very important now because you know,
because of a the Israeli Palestinian conflict, that protest showed
up on campuses and it's had a drastic effect on
American education now with the many of our major universities
(22:20):
being under attack. UH. And I tried to to give
in that book an account of how hard it is
to run a university. It's not like anything. It's not
like a business, and it's not like a government, and
(22:42):
it's the business plan is non sustainable. You depend uh
as whom Camp wrote UH for the line for one
of his character is that you depend on the kindness
(23:03):
of strangers in order to survive. And I'm really quite
worried because I don't think I don't think people understand
how hard it is to run a university. What universities
are good at is making contributions to knowledge. But if
(23:24):
you different games, like a referee of fight, that's not
what they're good at. They weren't. They're not trained for that.
What they're trained for it is to push back the
walls of ignorance. And that's been a tremendous force, tremendous
good in the United States. I mean, if you think
(23:47):
about all of the amazing things that universities have made possible,
artificial intelligence, uh uh, the whole understanding of how the
genome works, the coding of the human genome is these
(24:10):
are monumental achievements. Now we're working on quantum mechanics. And
to attack a university it's really like chewing off your
right arm. It's just for no good reason at all.
M h.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
And I think that's something to bring up. You brought
the us M I t out and everything else, and
plus you had a couple of other books. I'm married
a travel junkie, and also raising, the raising the dead,
the pod God, and other stories, and tell us more
about that the pond God.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
I like that one.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Well. I I once attended a lecture at the Museum
of Fine Art with my wife and the lecture was
about the famous medieval etcher who went by the name
(25:09):
of E. That was just his name of the letter E.
And after a while, in the middle of the lecture,
I was getting fidgety because it was not that good
a lecture, and I was getting a little bored. And
my wife could tell that I was getting board, and
(25:29):
so what she did was she shoved a notebook and
a pencil in in front of me and said, write something.
And so I started to write a story and it
ended up I liked what I wrote, And what had
come into my mind was the haunted Haunt of Virus.
(25:56):
Now do you know about the Haunt of virus?
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Know?
Speaker 5 (26:01):
But I like to hear more about it, or we should.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Well, you might remember that, oh maybe twenty years ago,
the Navajo around Albuquerque and Santa Fe were dying of
a mysterious disease, and nobody knew why they were dying.
They would just suddenly be taken very ill and die
(26:30):
and A reporter from Cambridge, I think he worked for
the Globe, was sent out to cover the story and
he spoke to a Novajo wise man, a shaman. Asked
the shaman, he said to the shaman, what do you
think is happening? And the shaman said that his people,
(26:56):
in his view, had lost their way. That they had
their mission in life was to protect as guardians the earth,
and they had lost their way in doing that, and
they had become dissolute and discouraged. That was what he said,
(27:23):
but that's not how he said it. What he said,
in fact to the reporter was I've seen a god
on the horizon and that's what that. When the reporter
made further inquiry, he found out that that's what it meant.
That was a sign that his people were in trouble,
(27:45):
and that they had given up their mission on earth,
which was to guard the earth, to treat it a
sacred object to be new, should nurture and not destroyed. Well,
that line, I saw a God on the horizon really
(28:07):
appealed to me, and so I decided to write. And
that one first story that I wrote when my wife
gave me that book and that pencil, was about a
God on the horizon, and these stories in the Pond
God and other stories are stories about gods who were
(28:30):
walk the face of the earth before people were here.
Each story is two hundred lines long, and none of
the stories, every one of the stories contains a mention
of a god on the horizon. And that was the
form that I did, and so I put these together.
(28:53):
I don't know, I wrote maybe thirty five of these stories.
I'll tell you once it will give you an idea.
And then a funny thing happened. I knew a I
met a man who had gone to m I t Uh.
He was a chemist, but he studied chemistry, but in
(29:21):
the last in the when he graduated, he spent uh
the the first nine years of his life as a wrestler.
Professional wrestler. Okay, he was known as Killer Goodman. And
I met him and he was given I was giving
(29:46):
a lecture in uh in Florida, and he happened to
be at this institute where I was lecturing, and we
met and I liked him instantly.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
His name.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
He was known as Bino Bino Good Band. The reason
why he was known as Bino was because he ran
the Bino game at the revered on at the Revere
Beach where there were these arcades at the time, and
that's Bino had a granddaughter and her granddaughter once she
(30:27):
was taking a seminar in New York City uh in publishing.
And you remember I said to you earlier that this
is what life is like. It's like a pinball. So
the story which is which is basically the pinball whose
label was the Pondad and other stories. So she was
(30:50):
supposed to come up with a project of writing a book,
putting a book together as an editor, putting it together,
designing it, planning it, and then seeing it through production
and seeing it out into the real world. So she
asked her grandfather if he knew of any text that
(31:10):
she could use, and the grandfather said, well, my friend
Jay has written thirty five stories. I'll ask him to
send them to you. And he said would you send them?
And I said, sure, Bin, I'd be glad to her.
So I said her the stories, and she did her
thing in the seminar. What's interesting was when she showed
the poems to the leader of the seminar, the leader said, no,
(31:34):
these are not good, these are not poems. These don't work.
You've got to get something else. She said, no, I
want to do these. I like these, and she argued
with the teacher, and the teacher finally gave in. She
could have given up, but she didn't, and so she
put the book together. And then at the end of
(31:54):
this seminar, what happened was they brought in professionals from
the publishing business. And then what you were supposed to
do was to give them your spiel with the book
in hand. And he did that and one of the
professionals said to her who wrote these? And she said, well,
(32:18):
I don't know. He's a friend of my father's. And
he said, well, are they published? And she said, well,
I don't think so. And he said, well, I want
to publish them nice and so he published them. It
was published with Front Street Press, and it won a prize.
I'll notice I wrote these for myself. I didn't send
(32:41):
them out to anybody. I didn't send them out to
an agent. I didn't send them out to somebody to
try to sell them. I just wrote them. And they
had took on a life of their own. And that's
what life is like. So you wanted to know, God,
that's where the pun God. Now I'll tell you one
of this pond god's story. Raise. Once there was a
(33:03):
god who could only walk in straight lines, and one
day he found a boulder in his path, and so
he was forced to stand there. Another god came along
and said, why are you standing in front of that boulder?
(33:24):
But the god was ashamed to tell him that he
could only walk in straight lines. So he said, Once
there was a god who died and turned into stone.
And I am standing here and I am doing I'm
giving my respect to this departed god. And so the
(33:46):
other god said, well, let me let me join you.
And the two of them stood there until both of
them turned to stone. And then the story with my saying,
and that is how two people can share a fate
that only one deserves. And that's what the stories look like.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
And I think that's really great as well too. Some
repetition Airli like man, we'll speak of repetition. We have
the book played against sam we'll talk the more about
that with Samuel J. Kaiser. You listen to the Mike
Widers Show at the.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Mike wadnershow Dot compowered by SONDKWB Studios, Brought to you
byroficsial sponsor to The Mike Widner's Show, Interdution, war Ring Out,
the Memstens, Missing the Sweets Homist by Serena Wagner, based
on Life of David says Quiz the Pains and Kingdavid
psalms the sweetsamat Amazon dot com. Keyword sweet Sma Serena Wagner.
We'll be back with the Multi Town Samuel Jake Kaiser.
I'll play it against Sam Halfter this time.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
you're looking to start or upgrade your online presence, visit
www dot Sonicwebstudios dot com for all of your online needs.
Call one eight hundred three oh three three nine six
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(35:03):
dot com to get started Today, mention The Mike Wagner
Show and get twenty percent off your project. Sonic weeb
Studios take your image to the next level.
Speaker 6 (35:12):
Hey there, Dana Laksa here, American news anchor. Hey, let
me ask you something real quick. Why do you read
a book. You're buying a story, a thought, a message,
and a good book entertains and inspires. And that's exactly
what a Missing by award winning author me on the
Zia Does. I have his book right here, and it's
based on real events with relatable characters that hook you
(35:35):
from start to finish. I personally love this book. It's
super powerful and meaningful through You can actually get it
on Amazon right now.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book The Sweet Sawmist, now a velbon Emsom. This
book includes thirty exquisite pintings by well known and unknown
painters and King David Soalms. The Sweet Sawmist gives us
a new perspective on his life in this book through
the songs he wrote. His time as a shepherd in
the field is where the book starts, and it goes
on to describe his complicated and turbulent relationship with King Saul,
(36:03):
as well as other events. It's a story of love, betrayal, repentance,
and more. It also offers advice on approaching God and
living a life that pleases him. Check out the book
The Sweet Sawmist by Serena Wagner, now available on Amazon
keywords Sweet Salmist, Serena Wagner. Hey, Hey, this is Ray
Powers and boy are you in luck, right Place, right time,
(36:24):
tuned into the Mike Wagner Show.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
You heard me.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Rebecca author Samuel Jake Kaiser here the Mike Waters Show,
and played against Sam. We talked about a couple of
his books, so being a jazz musician for Mit, associated
Provost and everything else.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
Play against Sam.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
This one uses repetition and you just take Leonard burdsign
very seriously exploring how it works, and tell us more
about that and why Leonard Burdsign Well.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Bernstein gave a series of lectures at Harvard and those
lectures were called the Norton Lectures. Very famous people gave
those lectures. Stravinsky gave a set of lectures, for example,
in the same city. Bernstein's lectures were actually not only
(37:18):
were they videotape, but they were also published in a
book called The Unanswered Question, Okay, And in that one
of the lectures, he said that he thought that the
reason why there had been so little progress made in
music theory was because theorists have not paid attention to
(37:46):
the role of repetition and music. And I thought that
that was a very interesting comment, and it's one of
those comments that sort of rolls around in the back
of your mind. I mean, it's always there and you
think it's important, but you don't really focus on it.
And then one day a friend of mine brought my
(38:09):
attention an experiment that was done by a woman by
the name of Elizabeth Helmuth Margoulis. She's a musicologist at
Princeton University. She did a very interesting experiment, and this
will I think I'll give you the heart of the matter. Okay.
She took the work of two famous Atonal composers, Elliott
(38:38):
Carter and Luciano Burrio, and she adopted them.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
The way she adopted them was that she took the
brute force cut and paste function of a computer, copy
the section of the music and placed it elsewhere, start
down the line. So if you can imagine, let's say
the music is proposed of let's say five segments one, two, three, four,
(39:10):
and five. Copied one and she then inserted it after one,
so that now the new piece of music, which was
the doctored version, not the original, would be one, one, two, three, four, five.
And then she took another she docted it in a
different way. She put the copied version farther down the stream.
(39:35):
So now she created yet a second doctored version of
the form one two, three, one four five. You got that, yes,
So then she had now four pieces of music. I
mean she had the original of Verio, the original of Carter,
the Doctor Barrio, the Doctor Carter. The first thing she
(39:59):
did was to play to her students. These were people
who liked music. They hadn't any particular they these were
music appreciation students, they didn't have any particular training in music.
And she just asked them which versions they liked best,
and it turned out that they liked the Doctor versions
better than the originals.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Then then she went to a conference and in the conference,
the attendees were all PhDs in music. They were musicologists.
They knew the theory, they knew they knew the stuff
of business. Colde he ran the same experiment, and guess what,
they also preferred the Doctor versions.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
Wow. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
What Mark Goulis concluded, and I think quite sensibly, was
that simply repeating something makes it pleasure. That's why these people,
she said, it adds aesthetic value to the piece of work,
to the work. And then paid attention and I started
(41:08):
looking at the way in which repetition works. And I'm
not gonna we have enough time for me to go
into the details of it. I mean, if anybody who's
listening to your program is interested, they can read the book.
But here's what I show. I show that exactly the
same mechanism that made those doctored pieces of music work.
(41:32):
It is exactly the same mechanism that makes rhyming poetry work.
And it's exactly the same mechanism that makes Andy Warhols
table soup cans a great painting. And why it shows
why the photographs of Ronnie Horn, for example, or Leaf Freedlander,
(41:54):
some of those work. And that's basically what my book
is about. Don't know it when you see these needs,
but these things are using repetition subliminally, and that's appealing
to your your mental hardware, which is designed to find repetition,
(42:15):
and when you find it, you get a jolt of pleasure. Now,
you might say, why should I be the case, Well,
that's because repetition, that kind of repetition was built into
our mechanism, in my opinion, by the processes of evolution.
Because it's what makes a baby bond to his mother's face.
(42:39):
The repeated, the repeated viewing of the child of the
infant of a face causes mere exposure causes the child
to bond with the face and what is sent and
that the reason why that's important is because the child
(43:00):
has to know that when it's in the environment of
that face, it's in a safe environment and some nature
in order to sort of enhance that relationship use pleasure.
It's not the only thing that nature uses pleasure for.
(43:23):
Sex is driven by pleasure, same sort of thing. And
what I propose in the book is that artists co
opted that relationship between repetition and pleasure when they constructed
works of art.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
That is interesting. Of course, it goes from like Homer
to epics to the present day. I mean, you have
fins some really good stuff. We do want people to
read more of the book. Now give it away?
Speaker 5 (43:54):
And where can you find all your books at? Including
Play It against Him?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Well? That's really nice? Agree? Did you did you ask
me a question?
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Where can you find your books at? Including Play It
Against Sam?
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Oh? Well, I think your best bet is to just
go on the internet. Just search out the Kaiser and
the title. The Mi T Press is the press that
published Play It Against Sam? Front Street Press. But nobody
will remember that. Just Google the titles of my name,
(44:33):
and if I'm lucky and you're lucky, you'll find it.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
And what is the website, Jay, I don't have one,
not yet, okay, So just find it on Amazon or
Barnes and Noble or a your favorites as well, so
we'll have everybody check it out. Here we're here at
the multi talented Samuel J. Kaiser of Play It against
Sam and Moore here on the Mike Wayners Show. Jay,
it's been great as well too. Love to have you
(44:59):
back and love to hear more your stories and what
else can we expect from you in twenty twenty five
and beyond.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Well, since you ask, I just I some time ago
I wrote a body of poetry, which again this is
the pinball hypothesis. I've written them and I never sent
them out. I just wrote them because I like to
(45:26):
write them. And I met oh. I think it must
be fifteen years ago. I met a young man in Bhutan.
My wife and I were visiting Bhutan and we met
this young man who was a composer and a pianist.
And about two years ago he called me and he said, Jay,
(45:49):
do you have any of your poems? I'd like to
see them. I said, well, I do have twenty two
a batch of them that I can show you. Actually
it was more than me, and I sent them to him.
He wrote me and he says, I love these. I
want to set them to music. Nice. He recently did
(46:10):
just that, and they were just recently published. The title
of that is called The World Is Filled with Empty Places.
It just came out. And what really blew me away
was you know about ASCAP? Yes, okay, so ASCAP. Every
(46:36):
week they put out a playlist of recommended titles, okay,
guarded if they didn't take a track from our from
Peter Stevens, he's the composer and my poems and listed
as one of the tracks that they were recommending, along
with tunes by rock groups. I thought, that's great. So
(46:58):
that's what I think they're coming. You will. I will
continue to practice my horn. I do that every night. Actually, okay, uh,
I don't know. I've written a couple of tunes. Maybe
I'll write some more. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
We'll see okay, right, well, only if we're looking forward
to that. And who do you consider biggest influence.
Speaker 5 (47:20):
In your career?
Speaker 2 (47:22):
My biggest influence in what in your career. Well, I
think it has to be Marris Hally and Noam Chum Steve.
Speaker 5 (47:32):
Okay, and what is the best advice you can give
to any boy at this point?
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Uh, hunker down.
Speaker 5 (47:46):
I like that and I think that's well said too.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
Here with the multi talent same old Jay Kaiser of
played against Sam here La Mike Waders Show.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
Jay, very big thanks for timing.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
You've been a fantastic learned a lot, looking forward to
having soon keep it up to they keeping touch lavavy
back and of course where can we find all your books?
Speaker 5 (48:04):
And how how can people get a hold of you?
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Jay? Well, I guess my Uh, I mean just you
can find me on Facebook. I'm on Facebook. That's a way, okay.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I will certainly check that out once again, Jay, a
very big thanks, the time you've been absent, amazing, looking
forward him soon keeps it up today, keep in touch
lavavy Back. We wish our best and Jay, you definitely
have a great feature.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
He thank you so much. Mike. It's really been great
talking to you and I appreciate you giving me your time.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
you're looking to start or upgrade your online presence. Visit
www dot Sonicwebstudios dot com for all of your online needs.
Call one eight hundred three oh three three nine six
zero or visit us online at www dot Sonicwebstudios dot
(48:56):
com to get started today, Mention The Mike Wagner Show
and get twenty percent off your project. Sonic Web Studios
take your image to the next level.
Speaker 6 (49:05):
Hey there, Dana Laksa here, American news anchor. Hey, let
me ask you something real quick. Why do you read
a book. You're buying a story, a thought, a message,
and a good book entertains and inspires. And that's exactly
what's a missing by award winning author me on the
Zia does. I have his book right here, and it's
based on real events with relatable characters that hook you
(49:28):
from start to finish. I personally love this book. It's
super powerful and meaningful through you can actually get it
on Amazon right now.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book The Sweet Sawmist now a velbon Emsom. This
book includes thirty exquisite pintings by well known and unknown
painters and King David Salms The Sweet Sawmist gives us
a new perspective on his life in this book through
the songs he wrote. His time as a shepherd in
the field is where the book starts, and it goes
on to describe his complicated and turbulent relationship with King Saul,
(49:56):
as well as other events. It's a story of love, betrayal, repentance,
and it also offers advice on approaching God and living
a life that pleases in check out the book The
Sweets Armers by Serena Wagner, now available on Amazon keywords
Sweet Sarmis Sorena Wager.
Speaker 4 (50:13):
Thanks for listening to The Mike Wagner Show, powered by
Sonicweb Studios. Lisit online at Sonicwebstudios dot com for all
your needs. The Mike Wagner Show can be heard on Spreakers, Spotify, iHeartRadio, iTunes,
YouTube Anchor, FM Radio Public, and The Mike Wagner Show
dot Com. Please port our program with your donations at
the Mike Wagnershow dot com. Join us again next time
(50:35):
for another great episode of The Mike Wagner Show.
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New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!