NYC best-selling author Jacqueline Friedland talks about her latest release “Counting Backwards” as a legal thriller that tackles timely, yet timeless issues such as reproductive rights, incarceration, and society’s expectations of women based on true stories from the 1920’s and 2020 involving a woman’s quest for justice into an immigrant’s case turning into a conspiracy and how they parallel! Jacqueline graduated Magna Cum Laude from Univ. of Penn & NYU Law School before pursuing commercial litigation, later became a teacher at Benjamin Cardozo School of Law teaching legal writing & lawyering skills and returned to get her Master’s of Fine Arts from Sarah Lawrence College, plus her 4 books featured in USA Today and Amazon Best-Seller list! Check out the amazing Jacqueline Friedland and her latest release on all major platforms and www.jacquelinefriedland.com today! #podmatch #jacquelinefriedland #bestsellingauthor #newyorkcity #legalthriller #countingbackwards #reproductiverights #incarceration #women #immigration #conspiracy #universityofpenn #nyulawschool #sarahlawrencecollege #spreaker #iheartradio #spotify #applemusic #youtube #anchorfm #bitchute #rumble #mikewagner #themikewagnershow #mikewagnerjacquelinefriedland #themikewagnershowjacquelinefriedland
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your favorite platform, Ericdimmusa dot com. Check them on Facebook, YouTube,
Spotify and more. We're here with the Trefford Lady, who's
a best selling author of four titles. She's been included
(01:33):
in Yesterday, Today and Amazon Bestseller List. She's a graduate
magna cum laud from University of penn and New York
University Law School for pursuing commercial Litigation. She became a
teacher at Benjamin Cardoso School of Law, taught legal writing,
loring skills and returns to school get her MFA in
Fine Arts. Has a brand new book out which is
(01:53):
a legal thriller that tackles timely yet timeless issues such
as repredict rights, two stories, incarceration, society, expectations of women
based on true stories, and involves a lady that's a
quest for Justice. We'll talk more about that with the
Immigration Situation, Life, Lads and General plus Studio somewhere in
beautiful downtown New York City. The amazing bestseller author and
(02:16):
also the author of the book Counting Backwards, the multi
talent Jacqueline Freeland. Jacqueline, good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 7 (02:26):
What it's great to have you on Bard.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Jacqueline, you're a best selling author of four titles, including
the USA Today and Amazon bestseller. You're graduating magn dot
Com Law from University of Penn New York University Law
School for pursuing commercial Litigation. You became a teacher of
Benjamin Cardoz, who's school of law taught legal writing, loring skills,
and you return to school gets your MFA and Fine Arts.
You have a new book which is legal thriller tackles
(02:49):
timely yet timeless issues including reproductive rights, incarceration, society, expectation,
women based on true stories and this involves just give
these a quest for justice into an immigration's case turned
into a conspiracy. The book is called Cunning Backwards forget
to Let Jacqueline tell us our first Cuss started, tell us, what.
Speaker 7 (03:10):
How you first got started? Ah, way back, way back.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Well, okay, I'm going to take you back to when
I was in college. I was an English major, and
I didn't know what I wanted to do after graduation.
And so when I got to be a junior, my
parents sort of said to me, it's time to start
thinking really hard about your next steps. And so I
went to see my favorite English professor and I told
(03:37):
him that I was thinking about getting a PhD in English,
and he very quickly talked me out of it. He
told me all of the things that I would hate
about it, like fighting for tenure and you know, struggling
to make sure I was getting scholarly articles published, and
dealing with office politics. And he said, if what you're
interested in is being in a classroom and being surrounded
(03:58):
by books, that's really only a very small portion of
the job, and if there's anything else you think you
might like doing, you should do that instead. So I
went back to my parents, who said, you know, he's right,
why don't you think about law school? And you know,
once you go to law school, you don't even have
to be a lawyer. You'll be qualified to do anything,
so I said, okay. So I went off to law
(04:21):
school on the thought that maybe if I didn't like it,
I would always return to writing and reading and something
with literature. But I was never going to do law
school later, so I figured i'd better start with law school.
And I liked law school. I went off. I did
all the things, studied really hard. But then when I
(04:42):
was graduating law school, they make it very easy for
you to follow one specific path, which is to go
to a big law firm. So that's what I did.
And from the minute that I stepped into the law firm,
I knew that I had made the wrong decision. And
you know, yeah, you know, I joked that like I
used to feel like I was playing dress up, Like
(05:03):
I'd put on my lawyer clothes and I'd go into
the office and it was like all I wanted to
do was escape. And this was, you know, a less
bars law firms go. It was a lovely one. There
were nice people, but it's just it was not where
I wanted to be. My primary goal each day was
seeing if I could get out of the office by
eight pm, that was and then if I did that,
that was the success. And so I knew that if
(05:25):
that was how I was measuring my success, that I
was not where I belonged. So I started writing on
the side and thought, you know, if I can get
a book published, then I could be a writer and
that would be much you know, something I'd much rather do.
And it was also at the time in my life
where I had just gotten married and we were starting
to have kids, and we turned out we have four,
(05:48):
and we turned them out fairly quickly. And when I
got pregnant with my fourth kid, my sister, who was
also an attorney, said to me, you know, you're going
to have four kids under the age of seven. I
don't know how you think you're going to work as
a lawyer and write a book and do all these
things that are on your agenda. And you need to
start making some choices. So that was when I left
(06:09):
the law and went back to school to get my
master's in creative writing. And while my kids were very little,
I did that, you know, some schoolwork, some some homework.
And then when my youngest child started kindergarten is when
I published my first book.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Oh wow, okay, I was going to say, you've got
some four assistants that can just you know, step.
Speaker 7 (06:31):
In right away.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
You come to think about it, I thought, hey, you
got four assistants right in a house.
Speaker 7 (06:35):
You don't have to pay them, so that's right.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Yeah, so far the only assistance I'm getting from them
is judgment on my social media posts.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Oh wow, okay, sounds I got some amazing children right there.
And this came to mind as well too, that when
you go to laws scow and I thought, you don't
have to be like you know, you'll get a law
from I thought, you know, I thought every time you
graduate law school you had to take a bar exam
in order to graduate or get into I didn't know
you have to take an exam and such.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
You do, you do have to take the bar exam.
I left that part out. So I did take the
bar and I passed it. You know, I spent the
whole summer after graduation studying for the bar exam and
it's so nerve wracking, but I took it and I
passed it. And I am still admitted to the bar
in the state of New York. I am still a
licensed attorney and I could practice if I chose to,
(07:27):
but I choose not to.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
And what was that one precise moment that simply influenced
you what you do in the race of your career.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
It was like that, it was you know, I can't
say that there was one precise moment. I think my
whole childhood, the idea of being a writer sounded really cool,
but it also sounded completely unrealistic to me. It sounded
like I was saying I wanted to be a movie
star or a rock star, and you know, like somebody
does it, but not in a million years that I
(07:55):
think it would be me. So I and maybe that's
just because I liked it so much that it felt
like such a dream. But there was you know, I
just knew like life is short and I couldn't wake
up every day for the next you know, call it
forty years or whatever it was going to be and
walk into a job that I didn't want to be doing.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And I think that makes sense today too, especially a
comedy and everything going and what are some of your
favorite authors writers, and what are some of your favorite
books going up?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Oh, growing up? Well, it depends what stage we're talking about,
because you know, there was.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
At any stage in general, it's like, y'all pick anyone,
anyone's right, I.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Have to say Great Expectations by Charles Dickens was in heist.
I read that in high school and it was life
changing for me. I used to love the Transcendentalist poets,
who now I would never pick up poetry now, but
in high school it really spoke to me. And Jane Eyre,
you know, they call that the first romance novel, and
(08:59):
I happened to be a huge romance reader. So when
I got to read something like a romance novel for school,
that was really awesome. But I also loved, you know,
a little younger. I loved all of those. There were
these books called the Caitlyn Caitlin series, where.
Speaker 7 (09:16):
I think I've heard of that, Yes, the Caitlin series.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
It was about you know, a teenage girl and sort
of her struggles and her life, and she wrote a
lot of horses, which seemed very idyllic and wonderful. And also,
when I was ten years old, the Yearling, which you
if you haven't read it, it is an incredibly sad
book about a boy who adopts like a pet deer
(09:40):
that he finds and he raises it and then struggles
with whether or not he can keep it. And it
was it's just such a gorgeous story and for anyone
looking for a book for a kid, I highly recommend it.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
And it's not a must read list as well too
when it comes to spring break, summer break, or anything
like that, that's recommended. And she's also got some books
out as well too, Like he gets that from me.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
That's not a thing.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Trouble the water, the stock weal letters. But we'll be
talking about counting back with the Jacqueline Freeland just a minute.
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Speaker 7 (10:44):
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mic Winnershow dot com. We're here the amazing best slaying
author of four titsand including the USA Today and Amazon
(12:48):
Best Selling List, Jacqueline Friedeland here on the Mike Waders Show.
Before get to your las book Counting Backwards, about illegal thriller.
The tackles the timely yet timeless issues on number of
things you wrote some books before or that which the
majority pretty much made the New York Times, USA Today
Amazon best Selling List. He gets that from me, that's
now a thing, Trouble the Water and the Stockwellers, and
(13:11):
tell us more about those.
Speaker 8 (13:12):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
So, my first book was Trouble the Water, which is
historical fiction, and it takes place about twenty years before
the Civil War in the American South, and it's about
a young woman who comes over to the US from
England and she falls into a situation with an abolitionist
who's secretly doing all this underground railroad work and once
(13:36):
she finds out, she wants to get involved. And I
don't want to give any spoilers, but the rest of
the story takes it from there. So after I finished
that book, though, I decided that I wanted to try
my hand at contemporary fiction, which is when I wrote
That's Not a Thing, and that book I call it
a New York City love story. It's about a young
attorney who doesn't like her job. Surprise surprise, that kind
(14:01):
of ties into you.
Speaker 7 (14:02):
It seems like, in a sense, right, they tell.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
You to write what you know about so but that's
sort of where the similarity ends. It's about this young
woman whose first great romance ended in enormous catastrophe, and
it takes her years to get her life back on track,
and once she's finally about to marry this wonderful guy,
the first love comes back, and it's about how she
deals with that. And then I enjoyed writing contemporary fiction,
(14:28):
so I stuck with it and I wrote my next book,
He Gets That From Me, which is about a young
woman who serves as a surrogate mother and finds outeers
after the fact that she accidentally gave away her own
biological child exactly. So that one was really interesting to write,
quite an emotional struggle. And when I finished it, it
(14:52):
was right around the time that the COVID lockdowns were starting,
and I was very overwhelmed, having my four kids home
from school and not really having understanding what was going
on in the world and how scared we were supposed
to be or not, and I just felt like I
couldn't start a brand new project. So I just I
remembered this story that I had seen when I was
(15:16):
researching my first historical book about a man named Anthony
Burns who was a really had like supposedly an enormous
impact on American history and is not somebody that most
people have heard of. So I said to myself, I'm
just going to research that and instead of creating anything
new right now, I'm just going to see if maybe
there's a story there. And as soon as I started researching,
(15:37):
it's like the guy's life reads like a movie. He
was the last fugitive slave ever returned to the South
under the Fugitive Slave Act, and he is largely credited
with having started the Civil War. It was like not
he himself, but the issues surrounding his escape and returned
to the South. So that was another historical fiction novel
(15:59):
based on the error leading up to the Civil War.
But then when I finished that, my agent said to me, Jackie, listen,
you have to pick a lane. Are you writing historical
fiction or are you writing contemporary fiction? So I said, okay, fine,
I'll write contemporary fiction. So I started this new book,
Counting Backwards, and it is actually dual timeline, and it
(16:22):
contains both a historical timeline from the nineteen twenties and
a contemporary storyline from the twenty twenties. So apparently I
cannot contain myself and I keep going back and forth
between historical and contemporary.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
And what prompted you to y'all write about Counting Backwards
having a timeline from the nineteen twenties and twenty twenties
as well too?
Speaker 7 (16:43):
What prompted that?
Speaker 4 (16:44):
So back in twenty twenty, I was reading the news
and I saw a headline that said the Uterus Collector,
and I thought, what a grim, creepy headline.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Clearly man right, Oh, thank god, and have breakfast over
the hour and like revert right, it's.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Like silence of the lambs. So I clicked on the
headline and it was a story that was coming out
of Georgia about some women. Immigrant women at a detention
center down in Georgia were claiming that they were being
sterilized by a doctor there without their consent, one after another.
So when I read that story, immediately remembered a project
(17:24):
that I did my senior year of high school about
an American woman in the nineteen twenties who was also
sterilized against her will. A seventeen year old girl went
to court to fight this all the way up to
the Supreme Court, and they sterilized her because they said
that she was what they called feeble minded. And it
was during this period of time where scientists were learning
(17:45):
about eugenics and creating a master race and all these
horrible things, and the court, the Supreme Court, thought, how
wonderful they could sterilize this woman and they would be
able to prevent her from having any more children who were.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Just like she was.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
When I read about the case in twenty twenty, and
I thought about the case in the nineteen twenties. I
just couldn't believe that one hundred years later something like
this could still be even if it was just allegations.
The fact that even allegations like this could come out,
So that was what prompted the whole story in my head,
and I dreamt up this like Aaron Brockovich style story
about a woman attorney going and helping these women in
(18:23):
the detention facility.
Speaker 7 (18:25):
And how does this how the courts determined that this
woman was feeble?
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Mine was IQ test? Was it mental tests or anything
like that? How is it determined what criteria?
Speaker 4 (18:35):
It's funny you should ask, because all evidence from the
era actually shows that she was of completely average intelligence,
with no defects of any kind, whatever you might want
to call them. She was poor, she was uneducated, and
her mother was allegedly a prostitute. She was on what
(18:58):
they called the charity list, so she was like collecting,
you know, charitable funds and food and things like that,
and the mother was institutionalized because of this, like they
just didn't want to deal with her anymore. And then
the daughter ended up in foster care and she basically
she went to school through sixth grade and after that
she was basically like a maid for this family that
(19:19):
she was living with. And when she was a teenager,
she got pregnant and the family that she was living
with said they didn't want an unwed young woman living
in their home while she was pregnant, and so they
sent her off to the institution. And the state of
Virginia had just recently created this model sterilization law where
(19:41):
they were sterilizing. You should if you saw the text
of the law, it was degenerates, imbeciles, idiots. The language
of who could be sterilized in this law was outrageous,
and so they needed a test case. And so they figured,
here they had this mother and daughter are already both institutionalized,
(20:03):
and then they just used them and there were no tests.
They got some testimony from some a nurse who had
never met the young woman testified, Yes, she seemed feeble
to mind it to me, and I know that she
passed a note in class ones, and like that was
their evidence. It was it couldn't have been supported in
(20:23):
a worse way.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
And do you think the treatment of what happened that
woman back in nineteen twenties, do you think, under the
same circumstance do you think she was survived the twenty twenties,
You know, you know, take someone from the nineteen twenties,
do you think there because five the twenty twenties could
have been better, Sam, or it could have been worse.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
I think it could have been worse. I think that, unfortunately,
there are still subsets of powerless women, powerless people who
even though most of us could look at a situation
and say, oh my goodness, that's horribly wrong and that
that should not be allowed to happen and somebody has
to step in, it doesn't always happen that there's somebody
(21:03):
there to protect them. So, you know, for example, the women,
the immigrant women and the detention facility, a lot of
them have no representation because if they're not American citizens,
they are not entitled to a lawyer, the same way,
you know, you hear the Miranda Rights in the movies
where they say if you can't afford an attorney, one
will be appointed to you or for you. That is,
(21:26):
if you aren't an American citizen, that.
Speaker 7 (21:28):
Is that's a claification.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Okay, yes, So so these women, the only way they're
going to get an attorney is if it's somebody who
they're paying for or if it's like some somewhere like
Legal Aid or some other nonprofit comes in and just says,
we'll just do this for you for free.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
And what about a public defender they have access to
having a public defender.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
When you say public de it's this no, because it's
that's the attorney that gets appointed to you.
Speaker 7 (21:55):
Okay, Yeah, I was just trying to clarify.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
They said that, you know, a public defender that can
basically just defend your not your public defenders aren't entitled
to like represent anybody anything arctetic or private attorneys. Just
a public defender that can like you know, defend like
you know, no matter what, like you'll pull out a
pool and say, okay, we'll defend this right.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Yeah, No, those you don't get one. Okay, just say
you're a non citizen immigrant.
Speaker 7 (22:20):
Okay. I just had to clarify that too. Just wanted
to make sure.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
And I think also too that you know, of course
you had to like stay silent and everything else, but
you also had And I was going back to your
question about US collectors, like you know, how do they
come up with it? It's like, I mean, while into
US collecting, I thought that was a scratch of my head.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Yeah. Well, apparently there was a nurse at this detention
center down in Georgia who was a whistleblower and she
said this, the doctor is removing all these women's uteruses
and so and then it was just the pape. The newspaper,
I guess, came up with their sensationalist headline the Uterus Collector,
which is.
Speaker 7 (22:59):
Nasty, right.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
And I think also too that was looking at some
of this as well too. And I also thought about
what are some of the issues of the issues that
happen in nineteen twenties there are parallel to also.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
In twenty twenty from the book counting backwards.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Oh, there's so many. So first of all, there's when
Carrie Buck, who is the young woman in the nineteen
twenties who gets pregnant. She tells the family that she
was living with that she's been raped, and they don't
want to hear it. They don't believe her, they don't care.
All they care about is the reputation and the fact
that there's this zogna unwed, pregnant woman for pregnant girls
(23:39):
in their home and they want her out. And then
in twenty twenty. You have my fictionalized main character, Jessa,
who goes into this detention facility and begins to suspect
that there is a pattern of medical abuse. And when
she comes out and she speaks to her husband, and
she speaks to the managing partner at her law firm,
who also happens to be a man, she gets almost
(24:02):
the same sort of dismissal of what carried out back
in the nineteen twenties of you know, we don't want
to hear it, we don't like where this conversation's going.
These are not things we want to think about, and
you're on your own. So that was a big parallel.
And then the other one is just sort of the
idea of the government taking control over women through the
(24:24):
use of their bodies, by depriving women of their bodily autonomy.
So everybody hears that this book is about reproductive rights,
and I think they immediately assume it's somehow related to abortion,
and the book is not. There's nothing to do with
abortion in this book. I don't even think the word
abortion comes up in the book. What it is about,
there is this whole other class of reproductive rights that
nobody ever talks about like the right to reproduce, which
(24:48):
we all assume is just such a fundamental right. Who
would take that away? But it does get taken away,
or the right to inform consent and to be told
what is going on with your body before a doctor
does a procedure to you, And I mean, the list
goes on and on. So and I think that all
of those issues, they were prevalent in the nineteen twenties,
and they were prevalent the twenty twenties, and.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Now, okay, and what about in between that time as well?
There have beened some changes, But then also ver nineteen twenties,
or are some of the changes that that did take place,
like thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, even like
two thousand or twenty ten before Sally going twenty twenty
back towards nineteen twenty.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yes, So I keep saying that it's one of these situations,
you know, like two steps forward, one step back kind
of kind of situations. So, I mean, obviously, you know,
we had Roe versus Wade that gave certain protections to women,
and that has been peeled back, and so there's all
sorts of new challenges about that, but there were also
after the Carrie buckcase in the nineteen twenties. Her case
(25:51):
paved the way for thousands and thousands of involuntary sterilizations
in the US, and some were non consent well, but
the women at least knew what was going on, and others,
the women did not even know what was happening to them,
like Carrie. Carrie Buck's sister, for example, her younger sister
was also in the institution, also sterilized, but she was
(26:13):
no She was told she was having her appendix removed,
and she did not find out until decades later what
had happened to her. She just knew she never had
kids and she didn't know why. And then there were
also in the South during like the fifties and sixties,
probably more the forties and fifties, there were medical students
(26:33):
would practice on minority women and they would they called
it the Mississippi appendectomy, but what they were actually doing
was sterilizing these women, and the women didn't know, and
nobody was getting in trouble for it. And there were
statutes in the different states allowing for the sterilization. Now
most of those statutes have been repealed, but the case
(26:55):
of Buck versus Bell has actually never been overruled, but
there's there hasn't really been an opportunity to challenge it,
which right.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
And plus you also had Jessa in there as well too,
making this really tough decision, you know, taking on this
case and putting pretty much everything at risk in that one.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Yes, yes, she you know, she feels very conflicted at
the beginning because she herself is going through some fertility
struggles trying to get pregnant with her husband, and she
wonders if she's so fixated on this issue because of
her own her own emotional connection to it. But then
she realizes that if this is really happening in the
(27:33):
detention facility, somebody has to protect these women, and even
if she's going to go it alone with nobody believing
her and nobody supporting her, she just knows that she
has to do what's right and to help them all.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
And also also also thought about as well too what
happened in nineteen twenties as well, especially in the Deep South.
And of course you don't think and now what about
some of the others like there with Hispanics, the Asians,
And I think also Europeans, Indians, and se many other races.
Has that happened to them as well, maybe a little
bit better and a little bit worse and everything like that.
(28:05):
Do you think race could also be involved in this
whole thing?
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Oh? Absolutely, I think that, especially for the for the
case in the twenty twenties. You know, all of these
immigrant women, I mean some were white, some were Latina,
some were black, Like you know, they're all different. They
span the gamut, and it's really unclear if so, the
lawyer in me has to say that the allegations out
(28:29):
of Georgia have not been proved. There was a congressional investigation,
they shut down the detention facility, so you can make
your own assumptions if they thought it was worth doing that.
But and then there was a federal class action that
was pending in court with something like forty plaintiffs, forty women,
and it only just settled this past January. But the
(28:51):
terms of the settlement have not been made public, so
I don't know what it entails. But hopefully, you know,
when the women were able to see some justice. But
I think it's you know, these issues are they don't
really know. It could be for insurance repayment. It could
be to curtail the growth of the immigrant population, it
(29:15):
could be both, who knows.
Speaker 7 (29:17):
I think that's something really think about as well too.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
And lastly, what can people get from the Burke and
and how can we learn from this whole thing?
Speaker 4 (29:27):
I think that you got to read the book, and
I think that the most important thing to learn from
this book and this situation is how important it is
to try to stay informed and to take action when
you see something that you believe is in an injustice.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
I think that's really important as well. We'll get back
to a book, Counting Backwards with Jacqueline Friedland. Just one
minute you listen to The Mike Widner Show at the
Mike Wednershow dot compowered by SONC Web Studios, Right to Buy,
Professional sponsor to The Mike Weidner Show, Internet, Worrying out There, Me,
Molten Day and Missing. Also sweets Amist by Serena Wagner,
based on Life of David, Amazon dot Com, keywords three
and Wagner Sweet Thomas and brought to by Sense Swing
(30:05):
Eric Diamond with all of Me New music coming soon
Ericdomusic dot Com. We'll be back with author Jacquelin Friedland
of County backwards after this time.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Hey, everybody, this is Eric Diamond and you're listening to
The Mike Wagner Show.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
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Speaker 9 (30:47):
Hi, I'm Burl Bear, legendary American author, and I'm here
to tell you about Missing. The new mystery suspense novel
by me and mosen Ze is really a good book,
very surprising. Never metaphor I didn't like. Especially in this book,
you have a main character whose wife has been filled
with despair. His wife died a nine to eleven is
a young daughter died of a rare disease.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
He's not a happy camper. What does he do for
a living.
Speaker 9 (31:09):
He's a physical fitness trainer. When somebody hardly knows somebody's
never met. He only has encountered of our internet chat
line goes missing.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
This is his journey. He's going to go rescue them.
Speaker 9 (31:21):
This is his search for redemption and search for his
own personal promise.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Land.
Speaker 9 (31:25):
He couldn't do anything about the death of his wife,
the death of his child, but maybe he could rescue
this woman he's never met, that is, if she exists.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Missing by Me and.
Speaker 9 (31:34):
Moss in Zia international in scope, vastly entertaining, full of surprises.
I suggest you get it either paperback or an electronic
condition for your kindle.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Missing by Me and mosin Zia.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Hey everybody, this is Eric Diamond. You're listening to the
Mike Wagner Show. You can check out.
Speaker 8 (31:49):
Our music and know all about us at www dot
ericdimondmusic dot com. Follow us on Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, TikTok.
You can friend me on Facebook. You can follow me
on Facebook, and you can even buy both of my
albums off of Facebook. Just get a hold of me
on the Facebook Messenger. We have them available in CD
(32:10):
or thumb drive. Thank you so much and hope you
have a great day.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book, The Sweet Sawmist now availve on emsoon. This
book includes thirty exquisite pintings by well known and unknown
painters and King David songs. The Sweet Salmist gives us
a new perspective on his life in this book through
the songs he wrote. His time as a shepherd in
the field is will. The book starts, and it goes
on to describe his complicated and turbulent relationship with King Saul,
(32:34):
as well as other events. It's a story of love, betrayal, repentance,
and more. It also offers advice and approaching God and
living a life that pleases him. Check out the book
The Sweet Salmist by Serena Wagner, now available on Amazon
keywords Sweet Saalmist Serena Wagner.
Speaker 7 (32:49):
Hey, Hey, this is Ray Powers and boy are you
in luck? Right place? Right time? Tuned into the Mike
Wagner Show.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
You heard me.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
We're back to author Jacqueline Freeland with counting backwards here
on the Mike Wedner Show. And just one more thing,
where can you'll find your book? And uh, what's the
website and how people contact you?
Speaker 4 (33:12):
So my book is available wherever books are sold. Go
find your favorite big online bookseller indie bookstore. And my
website is Jackwelinfriedland dot com. I'm going to spell it.
It's www dot j A c q u E l
I n E f r I E d l A
(33:38):
n d dot com.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
And make sure air by check it out.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
Today we're here with author Jaqueline Freeland with counting backwards
here on the Mike Wenders Show. Just a few more things?
What else can we expect me twenty twenty five and beyond?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Oh, good question. I am working on my next book,
hoping for it to come out in late summer twenty
twenty six. A little over you're from now and it's
another contemporary fiction. And you can find me writing and
reading and chasing after my children.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Okay, well, certainly do then find them on social media?
And who do you consider biggest influencing career.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Ooh, definitely my mother. She has she taught me how
to write, not creatively, she taught me, you know, strict
essay writing, but I fell in love with it and
took it from there. And she has just instilled in
me always work hard and follow what you love.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
That's great advice and what's the best advice you can
give the aim by at this point to anybody.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
I think you have to follow your passion, as my
mother says, do what you love and the rest will
fall into place.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
And I think that's a great idea, even from a
lizard too, that's great advice. So we're here with author
Jacqueline Free and Up counting backwards here on the Mike
Wadner's Show, best selling author four titles in USA Today
and Amazon bestseller. Jacqueline, very big, thank you, time, You've
been absolutely fantastic, learned a lot, looking for hand soon,
keeping up to date, keep in touch, lave ivy back
and what's web site? How do people contact you? Whoring
(35:02):
people purchase or check out your books?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Uh, they should find me on my website, that's right,
jacquelinfreedland dot com. They can also through my website find
my social media on Instagram at Jackie Friedland and all
the info you need is there.
Speaker 7 (35:17):
We'll certainly check that out once again.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
Jaqueline, very big, thanks you, time, you've been appsite, fantastic,
looking forward, having soon, gives up today, keep in touch
with flavvy back.
Speaker 7 (35:25):
We wish all best and Jacqueline, you death. Have a
great fit you having you.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
you're looking to start or upgrade your online presence, visit
www dot Sonicwebstudios dot com For all of your online needs.
Call one eight hundred three oh three three nine six
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(35:50):
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and get twenty percent off your project. Sonicweb Studios take
your image to the next level.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Hey everybody, this is Eric Diamond. You're listening to The
Mike Wagner Show.
Speaker 8 (36:03):
You can check out our music and know all about
us at www dot ericdimondmusic dot com. Follow us on Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, TikTok.
You can friend me on Facebook. You can follow me
on Facebook, and you can even buy both of my
albums off of Facebook. Just get a hold of me
on the Facebook Messenger. We have them available in CD
(36:25):
or thumb drive. Thank you so much and hope you
have a great day.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Hi.
Speaker 9 (36:29):
I'm Burl Beer, legendary American author, and I'm here to
tell you about missing the New mystery suspense novel by
Me and mosen Ze. It's really a good book, very surprising,
never metaphor. I didn't like especially this book. Here you
have a main character whose life has been filled with
the spear. His wife died a nine to eleven. He
has a young daughter died of a rare disease. He's
not a happy camper. What does he do for a living.
(36:51):
He's a physical fitness trainer. When somebody hardly knows, somebody's
never met, he always encountered of our internet chat line
goes missing.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
This is his journey. He's going to go rescue them.
Speaker 9 (37:03):
This is his search for redemption and search for his
own personal promise.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Land.
Speaker 9 (37:07):
He couldn't do anything about the death of his wife,
the death of his child, but maybe he could restue
this woman he's never.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Met, that is, if she exists.
Speaker 9 (37:14):
Missing by Me and Most and Zia International in scope,
vastly entertaining, full of surprises. I suggest you get it
either paperback or an electronic addition for your kindle.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Missing by Me and Moss and Zia.
Speaker 5 (37:26):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book The Sweet Sawmist now a veil on Amazon.
This book includes thirty exquisite paintings by well known and
unknown painters and King David Palms. The Sweet Salmist gives
us a new perspective on his life in this book
through the songs he wrote. His time as a shepherd
in the field is where the book starts, and it
goes on to describe his complicated and turbulent relationship with
King Saul, as well as other events. It's a story
(37:48):
of love, betrayal, repentance, and more. It also offers advice
on approaching God and living a life that pleases him.
Check out the book The Sweet Samist by Serena Wagner,
now a veil on Amazon. Keywords Sweet samis Sorina Wagon.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
Thanks for listening to The Mike Wagner Show powered by
Sonicweb Studios lisit online at Sonicwebstudios dot com for all
your needs. The Mike Wagner Show can be heard on Spreakers, Spotify, iHeartRadio, iTunes,
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The Mike Wagner Show dot com. Join us again next
(38:26):
time for another great episode of The Mike Wagner Show.
Hey everybody, this is Eric Diamond and you're listening to
The Mike Wagner Show.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonic Weeb Studios.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Hi, this is Miamos.
Speaker 4 (00:09):
They are also known as Mia No Time for Love.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Check out my latest book, Lifting, available on Amazon.
Speaker 5 (00:14):
The Mike Wagner Show also brought to by The Sweet
Somas by Serena Wagner, Available on Amazon, highlighted up Bogo, David.
Speaker 6 (00:24):
It's now time for The Mike Wagner Show. Powered by
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great guests and interesting people from all across the globe.
(00:44):
So sit back, relax, and enjoy another great episode of
The Mike Wagner Show.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Ever by It's Mike. Mike Wagner Show powered by sonkw
Web Studios. Write to Buy Fresh, sponsor to The Mike
Wagner Show. Internation Warring author Me and Mulson's Missing Available
on Amazon and paperback and ebook coming soon, Missing Too
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Speaker 7 (01:10):
Check it out on Amazon.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
Also brought to by The Sweet Somis by Serena Wagner,
based on Life of David Non Amazon keyword Sweet Samus,
Serena Wagner and The Sultan Sense Swing Eric Diamond with
his latest All of Me You music coming soon to
your favorite platform, Ericdimmusa dot com. Check them on Facebook, YouTube,
Spotify and more. We're here with the Trefford Lady, who's
a best selling author of four titles. She's been included
(01:33):
in Yesterday, Today and Amazon Bestseller List. She's a graduate
magna cum laud from University of penn and New York
University Law School for pursuing commercial Litigation. She became a
teacher at Benjamin Cardoso School of Law, taught legal writing,
loring skills and returns to school get her MFA in
Fine Arts. Has a brand new book out which is
(01:53):
a legal thriller that tackles timely yet timeless issues such
as repredict rights, two stories, incarceration, society, expectations of women
based on true stories, and involves a lady that's a
quest for Justice. We'll talk more about that with the
Immigration Situation, Life, Lads and General plus Studio somewhere in
beautiful downtown New York City. The amazing bestseller author and
(02:16):
also the author of the book Counting Backwards, the multi
talent Jacqueline Freeland. Jacqueline, good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 7 (02:26):
What it's great to have you on Bard.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Jacqueline, you're a best selling author of four titles, including
the USA Today and Amazon bestseller. You're graduating magn dot
Com Law from University of Penn New York University Law
School for pursuing commercial Litigation. You became a teacher of
Benjamin Cardoz, who's school of law taught legal writing, loring skills,
and you return to school gets your MFA and Fine Arts.
You have a new book which is legal thriller tackles
(02:49):
timely yet timeless issues including reproductive rights, incarceration, society, expectation,
women based on true stories and this involves just give
these a quest for justice into an immigration's case turned
into a conspiracy. The book is called Cunning Backwards forget
to Let Jacqueline tell us our first Cuss started, tell us, what.
Speaker 7 (03:10):
How you first got started? Ah, way back, way back.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Well, okay, I'm going to take you back to when
I was in college. I was an English major, and
I didn't know what I wanted to do after graduation.
And so when I got to be a junior, my
parents sort of said to me, it's time to start
thinking really hard about your next steps. And so I
went to see my favorite English professor and I told
(03:37):
him that I was thinking about getting a PhD in English,
and he very quickly talked me out of it. He
told me all of the things that I would hate
about it, like fighting for tenure and you know, struggling
to make sure I was getting scholarly articles published, and
dealing with office politics. And he said, if what you're
interested in is being in a classroom and being surrounded
(03:58):
by books, that's really only a very small portion of
the job, and if there's anything else you think you
might like doing, you should do that instead. So I
went back to my parents, who said, you know, he's right,
why don't you think about law school? And you know,
once you go to law school, you don't even have
to be a lawyer. You'll be qualified to do anything,
so I said, okay. So I went off to law
(04:21):
school on the thought that maybe if I didn't like it,
I would always return to writing and reading and something
with literature. But I was never going to do law
school later, so I figured i'd better start with law school.
And I liked law school. I went off. I did
all the things, studied really hard. But then when I
(04:42):
was graduating law school, they make it very easy for
you to follow one specific path, which is to go
to a big law firm. So that's what I did.
And from the minute that I stepped into the law firm,
I knew that I had made the wrong decision. And
you know, yeah, you know, I joked that like I
used to feel like I was playing dress up, Like
(05:03):
I'd put on my lawyer clothes and I'd go into
the office and it was like all I wanted to
do was escape. And this was, you know, a less
bars law firms go. It was a lovely one. There
were nice people, but it's just it was not where
I wanted to be. My primary goal each day was
seeing if I could get out of the office by
eight pm, that was and then if I did that,
that was the success. And so I knew that if
(05:25):
that was how I was measuring my success, that I
was not where I belonged. So I started writing on
the side and thought, you know, if I can get
a book published, then I could be a writer and
that would be much you know, something I'd much rather do.
And it was also at the time in my life
where I had just gotten married and we were starting
to have kids, and we turned out we have four,
(05:48):
and we turned them out fairly quickly. And when I
got pregnant with my fourth kid, my sister, who was
also an attorney, said to me, you know, you're going
to have four kids under the age of seven. I
don't know how you think you're going to work as
a lawyer and write a book and do all these
things that are on your agenda. And you need to
start making some choices. So that was when I left
(06:09):
the law and went back to school to get my
master's in creative writing. And while my kids were very little,
I did that, you know, some schoolwork, some some homework.
And then when my youngest child started kindergarten is when
I published my first book.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Oh wow, okay, I was going to say, you've got
some four assistants that can just you know, step.
Speaker 7 (06:31):
In right away.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
You come to think about it, I thought, hey, you
got four assistants right in a house.
Speaker 7 (06:35):
You don't have to pay them, so that's right.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Yeah, so far the only assistance I'm getting from them
is judgment on my social media posts.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Oh wow, okay, sounds I got some amazing children right there.
And this came to mind as well too, that when
you go to laws scow and I thought, you don't
have to be like you know, you'll get a law
from I thought, you know, I thought every time you
graduate law school you had to take a bar exam
in order to graduate or get into I didn't know
you have to take an exam and such.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
You do, you do have to take the bar exam.
I left that part out. So I did take the
bar and I passed it. You know, I spent the
whole summer after graduation studying for the bar exam and
it's so nerve wracking, but I took it and I
passed it. And I am still admitted to the bar
in the state of New York. I am still a
licensed attorney and I could practice if I chose to,
(07:27):
but I choose not to.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
And what was that one precise moment that simply influenced
you what you do in the race of your career.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
It was like that, it was you know, I can't
say that there was one precise moment. I think my
whole childhood, the idea of being a writer sounded really cool,
but it also sounded completely unrealistic to me. It sounded
like I was saying I wanted to be a movie
star or a rock star, and you know, like somebody
does it, but not in a million years that I
(07:55):
think it would be me. So I and maybe that's
just because I liked it so much that it felt
like such a dream. But there was you know, I
just knew like life is short and I couldn't wake
up every day for the next you know, call it
forty years or whatever it was going to be and
walk into a job that I didn't want to be doing.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And I think that makes sense today too, especially a
comedy and everything going and what are some of your
favorite authors writers, and what are some of your favorite
books going up?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Oh, growing up? Well, it depends what stage we're talking about,
because you know, there was.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
At any stage in general, it's like, y'all pick anyone,
anyone's right, I.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Have to say Great Expectations by Charles Dickens was in heist.
I read that in high school and it was life
changing for me. I used to love the Transcendentalist poets,
who now I would never pick up poetry now, but
in high school it really spoke to me. And Jane Eyre,
you know, they call that the first romance novel, and
(08:59):
I happened to be a huge romance reader. So when
I got to read something like a romance novel for school,
that was really awesome. But I also loved, you know,
a little younger. I loved all of those. There were
these books called the Caitlyn Caitlin series, where.
Speaker 7 (09:16):
I think I've heard of that, Yes, the Caitlin series.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
It was about you know, a teenage girl and sort
of her struggles and her life, and she wrote a
lot of horses, which seemed very idyllic and wonderful. And also,
when I was ten years old, the Yearling, which you
if you haven't read it, it is an incredibly sad
book about a boy who adopts like a pet deer
(09:40):
that he finds and he raises it and then struggles
with whether or not he can keep it. And it
was it's just such a gorgeous story and for anyone
looking for a book for a kid, I highly recommend it.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
And it's not a must read list as well too
when it comes to spring break, summer break, or anything
like that, that's recommended. And she's also got some books
out as well too, Like he gets that from me.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
That's not a thing.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Trouble the water, the stock weal letters. But we'll be
talking about counting back with the Jacqueline Freeland just a minute.
But first to listen to the Mike Waitner's Show at
the Mike Wadners Show dot com powered by sound Crab Studios.
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(10:27):
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Speaker 7 (10:44):
Not You're Worrying out of Me and Mulson's Eye.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
If you love fast based mysteries, you love Missing by
Me and Mulson The available on Amazon and paperbacking e book.
Missing is past, pacing and intriguing with an unforgetable Swiss.
Takes place in four countries, two strangers, one target, where
truth is illusion and those who love you to first
go Missing. It's available on Amazon and paperback. In the
books Missing by Me and Moulsons, Z has Gone Great
Peace and Evil, Lolevan Indeors by Howard Selvey's Clean Joanna, Cassie, Forest,
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So grab your copy today.
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Check it out on Amazon.
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Also, the Mic Writers Show is brought to Buy the
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To b sensa swinging Eric Diamond who has the latest
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mic Winnershow dot com. We're here the amazing best slaying
author of four titsand including the USA Today and Amazon
(12:48):
Best Selling List, Jacqueline Friedeland here on the Mike Waders Show.
Before get to your las book Counting Backwards, about illegal thriller.
The tackles the timely yet timeless issues on number of
things you wrote some books before or that which the
majority pretty much made the New York Times, USA Today
Amazon best Selling List. He gets that from me, that's
now a thing, Trouble the Water and the Stockwellers, and
(13:11):
tell us more about those.
Speaker 8 (13:12):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
So, my first book was Trouble the Water, which is
historical fiction, and it takes place about twenty years before
the Civil War in the American South, and it's about
a young woman who comes over to the US from
England and she falls into a situation with an abolitionist
who's secretly doing all this underground railroad work and once
(13:36):
she finds out, she wants to get involved. And I
don't want to give any spoilers, but the rest of
the story takes it from there. So after I finished
that book, though, I decided that I wanted to try
my hand at contemporary fiction, which is when I wrote
That's Not a Thing, and that book I call it
a New York City love story. It's about a young
attorney who doesn't like her job. Surprise surprise, that kind
(14:01):
of ties into you.
Speaker 7 (14:02):
It seems like, in a sense, right, they tell.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
You to write what you know about so but that's
sort of where the similarity ends. It's about this young
woman whose first great romance ended in enormous catastrophe, and
it takes her years to get her life back on track,
and once she's finally about to marry this wonderful guy,
the first love comes back, and it's about how she
deals with that. And then I enjoyed writing contemporary fiction,
(14:28):
so I stuck with it and I wrote my next book,
He Gets That From Me, which is about a young
woman who serves as a surrogate mother and finds outeers
after the fact that she accidentally gave away her own
biological child exactly. So that one was really interesting to write,
quite an emotional struggle. And when I finished it, it
(14:52):
was right around the time that the COVID lockdowns were starting,
and I was very overwhelmed, having my four kids home
from school and not really having understanding what was going
on in the world and how scared we were supposed
to be or not, and I just felt like I
couldn't start a brand new project. So I just I
remembered this story that I had seen when I was
(15:16):
researching my first historical book about a man named Anthony
Burns who was a really had like supposedly an enormous
impact on American history and is not somebody that most
people have heard of. So I said to myself, I'm
just going to research that and instead of creating anything
new right now, I'm just going to see if maybe
there's a story there. And as soon as I started researching,
(15:37):
it's like the guy's life reads like a movie. He
was the last fugitive slave ever returned to the South
under the Fugitive Slave Act, and he is largely credited
with having started the Civil War. It was like not
he himself, but the issues surrounding his escape and returned
to the South. So that was another historical fiction novel
(15:59):
based on the error leading up to the Civil War.
But then when I finished that, my agent said to me, Jackie, listen,
you have to pick a lane. Are you writing historical
fiction or are you writing contemporary fiction? So I said, okay, fine,
I'll write contemporary fiction. So I started this new book,
Counting Backwards, and it is actually dual timeline, and it
(16:22):
contains both a historical timeline from the nineteen twenties and
a contemporary storyline from the twenty twenties. So apparently I
cannot contain myself and I keep going back and forth
between historical and contemporary.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
And what prompted you to y'all write about Counting Backwards
having a timeline from the nineteen twenties and twenty twenties
as well too?
Speaker 7 (16:43):
What prompted that?
Speaker 4 (16:44):
So back in twenty twenty, I was reading the news
and I saw a headline that said the Uterus Collector,
and I thought, what a grim, creepy headline.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Clearly man right, Oh, thank god, and have breakfast over
the hour and like revert right, it's.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Like silence of the lambs. So I clicked on the
headline and it was a story that was coming out
of Georgia about some women. Immigrant women at a detention
center down in Georgia were claiming that they were being
sterilized by a doctor there without their consent, one after another.
So when I read that story, immediately remembered a project
(17:24):
that I did my senior year of high school about
an American woman in the nineteen twenties who was also
sterilized against her will. A seventeen year old girl went
to court to fight this all the way up to
the Supreme Court, and they sterilized her because they said
that she was what they called feeble minded. And it
was during this period of time where scientists were learning
(17:45):
about eugenics and creating a master race and all these
horrible things, and the court, the Supreme Court, thought, how
wonderful they could sterilize this woman and they would be
able to prevent her from having any more children who were.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Just like she was.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
When I read about the case in twenty twenty, and
I thought about the case in the nineteen twenties. I
just couldn't believe that one hundred years later something like
this could still be even if it was just allegations.
The fact that even allegations like this could come out,
So that was what prompted the whole story in my head,
and I dreamt up this like Aaron Brockovich style story
about a woman attorney going and helping these women in
(18:23):
the detention facility.
Speaker 7 (18:25):
And how does this how the courts determined that this
woman was feeble?
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Mine was IQ test? Was it mental tests or anything
like that? How is it determined what criteria?
Speaker 4 (18:35):
It's funny you should ask, because all evidence from the
era actually shows that she was of completely average intelligence,
with no defects of any kind, whatever you might want
to call them. She was poor, she was uneducated, and
her mother was allegedly a prostitute. She was on what
(18:58):
they called the charity list, so she was like collecting,
you know, charitable funds and food and things like that,
and the mother was institutionalized because of this, like they
just didn't want to deal with her anymore. And then
the daughter ended up in foster care and she basically
she went to school through sixth grade and after that
she was basically like a maid for this family that
(19:19):
she was living with. And when she was a teenager,
she got pregnant and the family that she was living
with said they didn't want an unwed young woman living
in their home while she was pregnant, and so they
sent her off to the institution. And the state of
Virginia had just recently created this model sterilization law where
(19:41):
they were sterilizing. You should if you saw the text
of the law, it was degenerates, imbeciles, idiots. The language
of who could be sterilized in this law was outrageous,
and so they needed a test case. And so they figured,
here they had this mother and daughter are already both institutionalized,
(20:03):
and then they just used them and there were no tests.
They got some testimony from some a nurse who had
never met the young woman testified, Yes, she seemed feeble
to mind it to me, and I know that she
passed a note in class ones, and like that was
their evidence. It was it couldn't have been supported in
(20:23):
a worse way.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
And do you think the treatment of what happened that
woman back in nineteen twenties, do you think, under the
same circumstance do you think she was survived the twenty twenties,
You know, you know, take someone from the nineteen twenties,
do you think there because five the twenty twenties could
have been better, Sam, or it could have been worse.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
I think it could have been worse. I think that, unfortunately,
there are still subsets of powerless women, powerless people who
even though most of us could look at a situation
and say, oh my goodness, that's horribly wrong and that
that should not be allowed to happen and somebody has
to step in, it doesn't always happen that there's somebody
(21:03):
there to protect them. So, you know, for example, the women,
the immigrant women and the detention facility, a lot of
them have no representation because if they're not American citizens,
they are not entitled to a lawyer, the same way,
you know, you hear the Miranda Rights in the movies
where they say if you can't afford an attorney, one
will be appointed to you or for you. That is,
(21:26):
if you aren't an American citizen, that.
Speaker 7 (21:28):
Is that's a claification.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Okay, yes, So so these women, the only way they're
going to get an attorney is if it's somebody who
they're paying for or if it's like some somewhere like
Legal Aid or some other nonprofit comes in and just says,
we'll just do this for you for free.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
And what about a public defender they have access to
having a public defender.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
When you say public de it's this no, because it's
that's the attorney that gets appointed to you.
Speaker 7 (21:55):
Okay, Yeah, I was just trying to clarify.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
They said that, you know, a public defender that can
basically just defend your not your public defenders aren't entitled
to like represent anybody anything arctetic or private attorneys. Just
a public defender that can like you know, defend like
you know, no matter what, like you'll pull out a
pool and say, okay, we'll defend this right.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Yeah, No, those you don't get one. Okay, just say
you're a non citizen immigrant.
Speaker 7 (22:20):
Okay. I just had to clarify that too. Just wanted
to make sure.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
And I think also too that you know, of course
you had to like stay silent and everything else, but
you also had And I was going back to your
question about US collectors, like you know, how do they
come up with it? It's like, I mean, while into
US collecting, I thought that was a scratch of my head.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Yeah. Well, apparently there was a nurse at this detention
center down in Georgia who was a whistleblower and she
said this, the doctor is removing all these women's uteruses
and so and then it was just the pape. The newspaper,
I guess, came up with their sensationalist headline the Uterus Collector,
which is.
Speaker 7 (22:59):
Nasty, right.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
And I think also too that was looking at some
of this as well too. And I also thought about
what are some of the issues of the issues that
happen in nineteen twenties there are parallel to also.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
In twenty twenty from the book counting backwards.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Oh, there's so many. So first of all, there's when
Carrie Buck, who is the young woman in the nineteen
twenties who gets pregnant. She tells the family that she
was living with that she's been raped, and they don't
want to hear it. They don't believe her, they don't care.
All they care about is the reputation and the fact
that there's this zogna unwed, pregnant woman for pregnant girls
(23:39):
in their home and they want her out. And then
in twenty twenty. You have my fictionalized main character, Jessa,
who goes into this detention facility and begins to suspect
that there is a pattern of medical abuse. And when
she comes out and she speaks to her husband, and
she speaks to the managing partner at her law firm,
who also happens to be a man, she gets almost
(24:02):
the same sort of dismissal of what carried out back
in the nineteen twenties of you know, we don't want
to hear it, we don't like where this conversation's going.
These are not things we want to think about, and
you're on your own. So that was a big parallel.
And then the other one is just sort of the
idea of the government taking control over women through the
(24:24):
use of their bodies, by depriving women of their bodily autonomy.
So everybody hears that this book is about reproductive rights,
and I think they immediately assume it's somehow related to abortion,
and the book is not. There's nothing to do with
abortion in this book. I don't even think the word
abortion comes up in the book. What it is about,
there is this whole other class of reproductive rights that
nobody ever talks about like the right to reproduce, which
(24:48):
we all assume is just such a fundamental right. Who
would take that away? But it does get taken away,
or the right to inform consent and to be told
what is going on with your body before a doctor
does a procedure to you, And I mean, the list
goes on and on. So and I think that all
of those issues, they were prevalent in the nineteen twenties,
and they were prevalent the twenty twenties, and.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Now, okay, and what about in between that time as well?
There have beened some changes, But then also ver nineteen twenties,
or are some of the changes that that did take place,
like thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, even like
two thousand or twenty ten before Sally going twenty twenty
back towards nineteen twenty.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yes, So I keep saying that it's one of these situations,
you know, like two steps forward, one step back kind
of kind of situations. So, I mean, obviously, you know,
we had Roe versus Wade that gave certain protections to women,
and that has been peeled back, and so there's all
sorts of new challenges about that, but there were also
after the Carrie buckcase in the nineteen twenties. Her case
(25:51):
paved the way for thousands and thousands of involuntary sterilizations
in the US, and some were non consent well, but
the women at least knew what was going on, and others,
the women did not even know what was happening to them,
like Carrie. Carrie Buck's sister, for example, her younger sister
was also in the institution, also sterilized, but she was
(26:13):
no She was told she was having her appendix removed,
and she did not find out until decades later what
had happened to her. She just knew she never had
kids and she didn't know why. And then there were
also in the South during like the fifties and sixties,
probably more the forties and fifties, there were medical students
(26:33):
would practice on minority women and they would they called
it the Mississippi appendectomy, but what they were actually doing
was sterilizing these women, and the women didn't know, and
nobody was getting in trouble for it. And there were
statutes in the different states allowing for the sterilization. Now
most of those statutes have been repealed, but the case
(26:55):
of Buck versus Bell has actually never been overruled, but
there's there hasn't really been an opportunity to challenge it,
which right.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
And plus you also had Jessa in there as well too,
making this really tough decision, you know, taking on this
case and putting pretty much everything at risk in that one.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Yes, yes, she you know, she feels very conflicted at
the beginning because she herself is going through some fertility
struggles trying to get pregnant with her husband, and she
wonders if she's so fixated on this issue because of
her own her own emotional connection to it. But then
she realizes that if this is really happening in the
(27:33):
detention facility, somebody has to protect these women, and even
if she's going to go it alone with nobody believing
her and nobody supporting her, she just knows that she
has to do what's right and to help them all.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
And also also also thought about as well too what
happened in nineteen twenties as well, especially in the Deep South.
And of course you don't think and now what about
some of the others like there with Hispanics, the Asians,
And I think also Europeans, Indians, and se many other races.
Has that happened to them as well, maybe a little
bit better and a little bit worse and everything like that.
(28:05):
Do you think race could also be involved in this
whole thing?
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Oh? Absolutely, I think that, especially for the for the
case in the twenty twenties. You know, all of these
immigrant women, I mean some were white, some were Latina,
some were black, Like you know, they're all different. They
span the gamut, and it's really unclear if so, the
lawyer in me has to say that the allegations out
(28:29):
of Georgia have not been proved. There was a congressional investigation,
they shut down the detention facility, so you can make
your own assumptions if they thought it was worth doing that.
But and then there was a federal class action that
was pending in court with something like forty plaintiffs, forty women,
and it only just settled this past January. But the
(28:51):
terms of the settlement have not been made public, so
I don't know what it entails. But hopefully, you know,
when the women were able to see some justice. But
I think it's you know, these issues are they don't
really know. It could be for insurance repayment. It could
be to curtail the growth of the immigrant population, it
(29:15):
could be both, who knows.
Speaker 7 (29:17):
I think that's something really think about as well too.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
And lastly, what can people get from the Burke and
and how can we learn from this whole thing?
Speaker 4 (29:27):
I think that you got to read the book, and
I think that the most important thing to learn from
this book and this situation is how important it is
to try to stay informed and to take action when
you see something that you believe is in an injustice.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
I think that's really important as well. We'll get back
to a book, Counting Backwards with Jacqueline Friedland. Just one
minute you listen to The Mike Widner Show at the
Mike Wednershow dot compowered by SONC Web Studios, Right to Buy,
Professional sponsor to The Mike Weidner Show, Internet, Worrying out There, Me,
Molten Day and Missing. Also sweets Amist by Serena Wagner,
based on Life of David, Amazon dot Com, keywords three
and Wagner Sweet Thomas and brought to by Sense Swing
(30:05):
Eric Diamond with all of Me New music coming soon
Ericdomusic dot Com. We'll be back with author Jacquelin Friedland
of County backwards after this time.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Hey, everybody, this is Eric Diamond and you're listening to
The Mike Wagner Show.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
you're looking to start or upgrade your online presence, visit
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Speaker 9 (30:47):
Hi, I'm Burl Bear, legendary American author, and I'm here
to tell you about Missing. The new mystery suspense novel
by me and mosen Ze is really a good book,
very surprising. Never metaphor I didn't like. Especially in this book,
you have a main character whose wife has been filled
with despair. His wife died a nine to eleven is
a young daughter died of a rare disease.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
He's not a happy camper. What does he do for
a living.
Speaker 9 (31:09):
He's a physical fitness trainer. When somebody hardly knows somebody's
never met. He only has encountered of our internet chat
line goes missing.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
This is his journey. He's going to go rescue them.
Speaker 9 (31:21):
This is his search for redemption and search for his
own personal promise.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Land.
Speaker 9 (31:25):
He couldn't do anything about the death of his wife,
the death of his child, but maybe he could rescue
this woman he's never met, that is, if she exists.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Missing by Me and.
Speaker 9 (31:34):
Moss in Zia international in scope, vastly entertaining, full of surprises.
I suggest you get it either paperback or an electronic
condition for your kindle.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Missing by Me and mosin Zia.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Hey everybody, this is Eric Diamond. You're listening to the
Mike Wagner Show. You can check out.
Speaker 8 (31:49):
Our music and know all about us at www dot
ericdimondmusic dot com. Follow us on Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, TikTok.
You can friend me on Facebook. You can follow me
on Facebook, and you can even buy both of my
albums off of Facebook. Just get a hold of me
on the Facebook Messenger. We have them available in CD
(32:10):
or thumb drive. Thank you so much and hope you
have a great day.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book, The Sweet Sawmist now availve on emsoon. This
book includes thirty exquisite pintings by well known and unknown
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(32:34):
as well as other events. It's a story of love, betrayal, repentance,
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Speaker 7 (32:49):
Hey, Hey, this is Ray Powers and boy are you
in luck? Right place? Right time? Tuned into the Mike
Wagner Show.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
You heard me.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
We're back to author Jacqueline Freeland with counting backwards here
on the Mike Wedner Show. And just one more thing,
where can you'll find your book? And uh, what's the
website and how people contact you?
Speaker 4 (33:12):
So my book is available wherever books are sold. Go
find your favorite big online bookseller indie bookstore. And my
website is Jackwelinfriedland dot com. I'm going to spell it.
It's www dot j A c q u E l
I n E f r I E d l A
(33:38):
n d dot com.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
And make sure air by check it out.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
Today we're here with author Jaqueline Freeland with counting backwards
here on the Mike Wenders Show. Just a few more things?
What else can we expect me twenty twenty five and beyond?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Oh, good question. I am working on my next book,
hoping for it to come out in late summer twenty
twenty six. A little over you're from now and it's
another contemporary fiction. And you can find me writing and
reading and chasing after my children.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Okay, well, certainly do then find them on social media?
And who do you consider biggest influencing career.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Ooh, definitely my mother. She has she taught me how
to write, not creatively, she taught me, you know, strict
essay writing, but I fell in love with it and
took it from there. And she has just instilled in
me always work hard and follow what you love.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
That's great advice and what's the best advice you can
give the aim by at this point to anybody.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
I think you have to follow your passion, as my
mother says, do what you love and the rest will
fall into place.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
And I think that's a great idea, even from a
lizard too, that's great advice. So we're here with author
Jacqueline Free and Up counting backwards here on the Mike
Wadner's Show, best selling author four titles in USA Today
and Amazon bestseller. Jacqueline, very big, thank you, time, You've
been absolutely fantastic, learned a lot, looking for hand soon,
keeping up to date, keep in touch, lave ivy back
and what's web site? How do people contact you? Whoring
(35:02):
people purchase or check out your books?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Uh, they should find me on my website, that's right,
jacquelinfreedland dot com. They can also through my website find
my social media on Instagram at Jackie Friedland and all
the info you need is there.
Speaker 7 (35:17):
We'll certainly check that out once again.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
Jaqueline, very big, thanks you, time, you've been appsite, fantastic,
looking forward, having soon, gives up today, keep in touch
with flavvy back.
Speaker 7 (35:25):
We wish all best and Jacqueline, you death. Have a
great fit you having you.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
The Mike Wagner Show is powered by Sonicweb Studios. If
you're looking to start or upgrade your online presence, visit
www dot Sonicwebstudios dot com For all of your online needs.
Call one eight hundred three oh three three nine six
zero or visit us online at www dot Sonicwebstudios dot
(35:50):
com to get started today, Mention The Mike Wagner Show
and get twenty percent off your project. Sonicweb Studios take
your image to the next level.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Hey everybody, this is Eric Diamond. You're listening to The
Mike Wagner Show.
Speaker 8 (36:03):
You can check out our music and know all about
us at www dot ericdimondmusic dot com. Follow us on Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, TikTok.
You can friend me on Facebook. You can follow me
on Facebook, and you can even buy both of my
albums off of Facebook. Just get a hold of me
on the Facebook Messenger. We have them available in CD
(36:25):
or thumb drive. Thank you so much and hope you
have a great day.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Hi.
Speaker 9 (36:29):
I'm Burl Beer, legendary American author, and I'm here to
tell you about missing the New mystery suspense novel by
Me and mosen Ze. It's really a good book, very surprising,
never metaphor. I didn't like especially this book. Here you
have a main character whose life has been filled with
the spear. His wife died a nine to eleven. He
has a young daughter died of a rare disease. He's
not a happy camper. What does he do for a living.
(36:51):
He's a physical fitness trainer. When somebody hardly knows, somebody's
never met, he always encountered of our internet chat line
goes missing.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
This is his journey. He's going to go rescue them.
Speaker 9 (37:03):
This is his search for redemption and search for his
own personal promise.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Land.
Speaker 9 (37:07):
He couldn't do anything about the death of his wife,
the death of his child, but maybe he could restue
this woman he's never.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Met, that is, if she exists.
Speaker 9 (37:14):
Missing by Me and Most and Zia International in scope,
vastly entertaining, full of surprises. I suggest you get it
either paperback or an electronic addition for your kindle.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Missing by Me and Moss and Zia.
Speaker 5 (37:26):
The Mike Wagner Show is brought to you by Serena
Wagner's book The Sweet Sawmist now a veil on Amazon.
This book includes thirty exquisite paintings by well known and
unknown painters and King David Palms. The Sweet Salmist gives
us a new perspective on his life in this book
through the songs he wrote. His time as a shepherd
in the field is where the book starts, and it
goes on to describe his complicated and turbulent relationship with
King Saul, as well as other events. It's a story
(37:48):
of love, betrayal, repentance, and more. It also offers advice
on approaching God and living a life that pleases him.
Check out the book The Sweet Samist by Serena Wagner,
now a veil on Amazon. Keywords Sweet samis Sorina Wagon.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
Thanks for listening to The Mike Wagner Show powered by
Sonicweb Studios lisit online at Sonicwebstudios dot com for all
your needs. The Mike Wagner Show can be heard on Spreakers, Spotify, iHeartRadio, iTunes,
YouTube Anchor, FM Radio Public, and The Mike Wagner Show
dot Com. Please support our program with your donations at
The Mike Wagner Show dot com. Join us again next
(38:26):
time for another great episode of The Mike Wagner Show.
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