Episode 39: Mark Fischer

Mark Fischer joins the podcast! Mark is a coach at Tread Athletics and has been working with me for the past 6 months and has been regarded as the greatest sidearm pitching coach in the world. Mark talks about his journey through throwing and hopefully into pro ball

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
What's up? What's happening? Welcomeback to the minor League Take I'm your
host, brat Case, and thisweek we got more Shark Fisher. Thanks
for letting me be here, ofcourse, man, thanks for coming on.
Mark has been my trainer with TRIDAthletics for the past six months.
It's been an awesome journey with him. I've learned a lot. I learned
a lot that I probably should haveknown while I was thrown overhand. But
even better, I'm throwing side armnow, just like you. And I

(00:21):
came across you on a viral videoon Instagram and it's been I think a
ton of success since then. Iagree you've grown a ton as a thrower.
Appreciate it, man, I thinkwe're you know, let's just kick
off this podcast where we start mostof these podcasts. Tell me what high
school baseball looked like for Mark Fisher. So I'm from city just outside Cleveland,

(00:42):
Ohio, very small city. Sobaseball is more of that really cold
spring sport. Yeah, but throughover the top like any normal kid.
Through actually pretty hard. I wasup to ninety one my junior year in
high school and then fractured my electronon so I was out for a little
bit of time, but then whatmy electorates the the bony part of your
all known your radius that connect downChrist all right, I didn't even know

(01:04):
that's what it was. Oh mygod. All right. Yeah. Still
ninety one's fuel, and especially Imean you're graduate seventeen. I mean,
I like to remind people all thetime that the like pre COVID, like
we just didn't throw a ninety onewas crazy, especially for like high school
back in the day. It wasjust I think the game has really changed
with player development, especially with youngerage groups over the last couple of years,

(01:26):
where it's like, granted, you'veseen a couple of my high school
guys just absolutely chucking and oh mygosh. Yeah, it's a blast to
watch cam when he is he havea pen tomorrow? No he's at yes,
yeah, yeah, okay, butyeah, for you guys don't know
Camera bagwell, look out for thename. He's a College of or Wilmington,

(01:47):
will commit up to ninety four sixfive, just monster. Yeah,
he's gonna be good. Yes,he's got the conference. He does,
he does, he does. Yes, So yeah, I mean you in
your high school career, were youguy, that was like, oh,
it's time to bring in fish,like, let's let's strike out the side
here. So I actually was astarter for majority of it. And I

(02:09):
actually attribute to a lot of mylaxity to like with throwing all the time
to actually swimming. I swam allthrough or all through high school. Yeah,
and just in the water and stuff. I think it just kept my
arm in shape. To be honestwith you, did you swim because your
last name was Fisher? No,but it was just kind of I would
love that, like I got afit a swim. Yeah, I mean

(02:30):
you threw the ship out of theball and then what did what did senior
year look like? Like? Sodidn't wasn't able to throw, So it
was just rehabbing. Actually had someconnections to rehab with the Clinton Guardians or
including any of the time and stuff. So just more of just rest than
anything else. And then I wascommitted to a school I really don't want
to go to at the time,so decommitted. And then I actually moved

(02:50):
out to Washington, Seattle to trainat O G drive Line with drive Line
yeah back in twenty seventeen, twentyeighteen, dude, that was I remember,
like back in the day, likethey were breaking down all kind of
barriers. They waited, balls wereso taboo. It was very everything there.
Everything that was coming out of therewas very new age, very cutting
edge stuff, and it was it'sbeen really cool to watch the whole baseball

(03:12):
world kind of like grow and takeon all that stuff. I personally think
they were the founders of basically learninghow to train a facility. Yeah,
yeah, I mean I before then, I mean I knew, I know
Krussy's been running for a long timeand they're they do great work, but
it's it's something different when the thingthat I like to say about Russy is
that it is a great facility,but it's great for guys that are big

(03:35):
leaders and first rounders like and andguys that are young and developing. When
you're a little bit older though,when you start to reach that like end
of high school phase, I feellike if you're trying to get look to
get better, like there's other optionsthat are gonna be more more interesting,
more and more lucrative. I thinkcomes with the aggression behind the training.
Yeah. With Kressy, it's moreof just keeping your body in sync and

(03:57):
just like healthy, and it's whenif you want to throw harder, you're
gonna have to try to push theboundaries a little bit, try to push
the envelope to actually like see whatyour body can handle. Absolutely, I
mean, and I'm I'm a bigguy. I'm six seven, Like I've
always been trying to find that thenew unlock and the new kind of edge.
I'm finding it this way and throwingits side arm. But now I'm
up to the same veelow I waswhen over the top, but I'm down

(04:18):
low. Yeah, And it's beenawesome training at TREAD not only with the
remote program but also in house.Yeah, I was gonna say the in
house in my opinion, goes toso much more value just because it's like
I'm actually able to interact and seethings from day to day, and it's
the biggest thing that's Like with remotetraining, it's like getting video. That's

(04:39):
great, it's where I can seeit. But in terms of like actually
working on bullpens, that's something likehuge, to where I can see like
little things that you're doing, towhere the whole point of training is to
get better at the game. AndI feel a lot of people forget that
where it's oh I walked forward,but I hit a pr It's like,
okay, cool, but did youget anybody out? Like, yeah,
throwing hard in the big leagues,not strikes is not helpful. No,

(05:02):
not at all, not at all. A big thing that I hear a
lot from the older guys that arein the big leagues and a lot of
my friends that are in the bigleagues is that, like, yo,
if you get up here, like, do not want people like that will
piss managers off so badly. Theydon't care how are your throat like obviously
they want you to throw some nastystuff. Yes, but throw strikes.
That's the first and foremost thing.Yes, I was gonna say it comes

(05:24):
one of my coworkers, hundred Townsendsays best just GMFO, just get motherfuckers
out, And it's it comes downjust being competitive. And then I think
even going back to like the strikething, it's like we've talked about this
with the Velo where we now necessarilydon't have to be a mid to upper
thrower in that world. No,and it's just coming at you with I

(05:45):
guess us playing almost like backyard withfootball up there to where it's a little
bit more fun and we can watchguys take stupid, stupid swings and stuff
like that to where we're just tryingto miss barrels. Yeah. Something that
I kind of want to touch onreal quick though, is that you have
not you haven't always been a sider. No, no, but I mean,
so let's take a step back though. You you get to Washington,

(06:05):
you start training there, how doesthat process start to go? Like?
What is it? What's it likebeing in house back then? So back
in OG drive line days, itwas very much of a of a grind
where you would just like still showup every single day. And honestly,
God, the recovery aspect, inmy opinion, I don't think was looked
at as heavily. It was justrip all the time, and it was

(06:29):
more with me. It was Iwas very intent based to where it was
just like I was going balls thewalls all the time. I was really
I wasn't polishing my movement patterns aswell as I could have. It was
more just kind of like rebounding offof getting hurt and trying to get back
to what I was. Granted,my throw evolved a lot just through the
drill work I was doing. Itjust wasn't as clean as I out of

(06:53):
liked it, and so after adrive line, I actually went to Lake
Erie College and there I was enteringas a freshman back up to like ninety
one healthy again and first fall outing, I actually yipped a ball over the
backstop and that kind of set thepace of my college career. Yeah,
yeah, that's I mean, thatis frustrating. Fuck, I don't really

(07:17):
know what's even safe from there.Fuck now it's it's it's honest to god,
it was looking back at everything.I'm a big believer and everything happens
for a reason. Yeah, andbeing where your feet are and at the
time it's you're obviously you super frustrated, and you're looking at everything up close
to where you can actually step backand see the whole picture. But now,
years down the road, I'm ableto And to be honest, if
it wasn't for me getting yipped up, I don't think I would have dove

(07:40):
into understanding the throw and understanding thebody as much as I do now if
I that didn't happen to me,Because to be honest, I feel like
most athletes, when you get upthere, it's like you're just competing.
You're not thinking about anything and you'rejust performing. When I became super analytical
about everything and always trying to likelook for an answer, Granted, I
think it domed me up even moreand put me more in a hole,
But because of that, I learnedso much, and then once I was

(08:01):
able to clear out my headspace,I was actually able to just explore and
figure out what makes me me.Yeah, I mean fuck yeah, I
really, I really believe I've Thispast off seasons really made me believe that
too, Like everything happened, likeeven mistakes happened for a reason, and
I've taken a lot of those mistakesthat you know, I've been fucking up

(08:22):
with all this whole new process oflike all right, well now it's time
to learn how I solve this problembecause it's gonna come up in season.
Yes, Like we had a bullpenlast week when I was like, dude,
I can't my sinker's not sinking,like it's I think the most thing
I got that day was like nagivethree. It was terrible in retrospect,
Yeah, today I was popping negativetents like yeah I was fine and they
were disgusting. Yeah, it wasawesome, but it was important though,

(08:43):
I think to make that mistake andto go like, all right, what
did I do? What happened todaythat led to you know, led to
these results, and now we knowand then we can fix it going forward.
Absolutely. I think the biggest thingtoo, is just like not hitting
the panic button. Yeah, it'sI your goldfished eyes. You're not gonna
freak out. You're just gonna flushdown the toilet, move on, you

(09:05):
know what I mean. And soit's like with that before Jesus. But
granted, it's like with the pens, like the sinker wasn't doing what we
wanted. Rather than us freaking outtrying to change all this stuff, it
was just like take with a grainof salt, let's try it again the
next day, and then it wasback to normal. Yeah. So then
all right, yeah, you goto Lake Erie College. Uh, it
doesn't go the way you wanted togo, but you spent all four years

(09:26):
there, right correct. My senioryear, I was actually starting to figure
out a little bit. But mostmost outings, I'd throw this really loopy
breaking ball anywhere between like seventy twoto seventy eight, okay, and I
just prayed that it just lambs inthe the fastball was nowhere close, like

(09:46):
not even not even close. Soit was just basically ninety nine percent breaking
balls. And then senior year,I started to like just believe in myself
a little bit more and things startedto click. And then finished up with
lake Erie, and I didn't knowif I was gonna take my fifth year
at Kent State, and then Iended up taking the job at Train Athletics.

(10:07):
And that's in what would oct erSeptember of twenty twenty three, September
twenty no September twenty two, twentytwo, Somber twenty twenty two. Okay,
September twenty two. You do that, and you've been able to work
with a ton of great athletes myselfincludes absolutely. But then you know,
I, like I said earlier,that video comes out last summer of you

(10:31):
throwing subby. How did that?How was that kind of born? So
that was honestly one of the coolestin my mind training experiences I've ever had
to where when I showed up totread I was about eighty eight ninety two,
and I was starting to get anidea of where the ball was going
throwing over the top, and thebiggest thing at tread. It was like,
they're not gonna like my coworkers andstuff. They are obviously very intelligent,

(10:54):
and they weren't gonna just give youthe answers. It was like,
you're gonna You're here for a reason. It's like I want you to figure
it out. Being an athlete myselfstill, it was like, I'm actually
able to apply this, and soover the course of a couple months,
I actually hit my first ninety fiveover the top grand I'm throwing into a
net, so I don't have thatstimulus of like throwing to a catcher still.
Just just learn how to move first. And then later that spring I

(11:15):
ended up hitting my first ninety sevenin buck and I just started just throwing
and throwing your nine pocket catcher hereand there. And then in the middle
of the summer, I was tryingto hit ninety eight for the first time.
I was throwing hard again, figuredsome moving patterns out and I was
in a veillo off and in thevello off, I was sitting ninety five
did it pr And I got reallypissed off and I just slung one underneath.

(11:39):
I had no idea what was doing. I to be honest, it
was probably just a stupid throw.Going back to it. Yeah, but
when I hit ninety two, everyonewas like, oh my god, what
was that? Everyone was like,oh fuck. So talked to a couple
coworkers and they were like, ifyou want to play pro ball, like
learn how to get learn how todo that, because it's like, coming
from a kid that was yipped upthrowing for the top, it's like everybody
throws hard now, so it's like, how where's my what makes me different?

(12:01):
What gets me into the game.And so over the course of a
month, granted at the time,I was throwing about what your release height
is now about just under four feet? Yeah, and I ended up hitting
ninety five and I remember that videojust absolutely blew up. Yeah, that
was that was cool. I sawthat and I feel like, literally that

(12:22):
day, I was like, dude, I need some kind of like some
guidance here, Like I have noidea what I'm doing. Because my coaches,
I love them, they were awesome. They played catch in every day,
but they're basically like, yeah,you looked athletic. I don't know.
Well, that was like I needsomething. Well, that's the thing.
I feel like, since everyone throwsover the top, and then you
become you know, it's it's timeto drop it down. There's no real

(12:43):
guidance with it. I remember youtold me. They're like, just make
it your own. Well, it'slike sure, but there still needs to
be Yeah, there still needs tobe princils behind the throw that we need
to follow. Yeah, you knowwhat I mean. Yeah, and then
the whole thing too. It's likewhere your arsenal is changing a little bit
in terms of granted you're still throwingthe same pitches, but they are not
moving a little bit differently. Yeah, it was the biggest reason you dropped
down was that because of your sinker, and they just wanted to try to

(13:03):
lose it. It was the sink. So for the people at home,
they don't understand. So when Iwas up top, I was getting the
induced vertical break on a normal fastball. Would you say, is like ten
thirteen fourteen. Let's talk about normal, normal, normal four team about fourteen
fourteen? Yeah, fourteen fourteen.So what that means is that it doesn't
rise fourteen inches, is that it'syou know, fighting gravity, it's fights

(13:26):
gravity at the rate of like whatwould be fourteen inches, And then I
could so I could throw that,which was, you know, on paper,
not a good pitch, but itwas good because I would throw a
sinker consistently around zero inches of verticalbreak, which is you know, almost
too you know, that's almost afoot. That is a foot of difference.
And that's what made me effective fora couple of years. The guys

(13:48):
the analytics department at the Pirates sawthat and went, wow, if we
take this and just make him drophis arm, he could be getting crazy
negative movement and that could make himsuper effective. And that was kind of
the whole thought behind them dropping medown. And then it started. You
know, I threw my first coupleof bullpens. Then it worked and they
were like, all right, wellwe're you know, one of the means

(14:09):
they have with me was they satdown and they said, look, you
need to hammer negative movement as partof you know, as my whole thing.
How do we start on the tangent? Uh? I just talked about
the difference. Well, they droppeddown because they yeah, they were just
leveraging the sinker. Yeah, theywere trying to give me to throw the
shit out of the sinker as muchas possible. And it's been working so
far. It's a blast and it'sfun too, because they never told me

(14:33):
like, hey, we want youto be able to hit ninety, Like
that was never part of it,was it not? No, I was
expecting. Well, I remember onyour intake for him, it was like
throwing like ninety three, ninety four, and I'm just like, Okay,
we got some work to do.I probably put throw a hundred just because
I always want to throw. Everybodywants to throw. Everybody wants to throw
that. I think that's also thebiggest kind of like blessing, I guess
with being unique. I think that'sthe best way to put it, because

(14:56):
it's like, growing up, everyonewants to throw a hundred, and it's
like you see these guys that dothrow one hundred and they still get barreled.
And I feel like sometimes the anxietyof being on the mound where it's
like obviously you have to execute apitch and you have to throw hard and
stuff, but going back to itwhere it's like we don't have to throw
hard and we're still blowing it byguys just because of how deceptive and different
it is. Yeah, yeah,I got. I had my first live

(15:18):
today since September, which I don'teven really count that, you know,
when I was in Affiliable last Septemberplaying for the Pirates, Like, I
don't really even count that as live. AB's with how I am now because
it's been such transformation. I waseighty three eighty five correct? Correct?
Yeah, I was gonna say youtransfer. I remember your first time in
house. You like, I rememberwe talked on the phone the first Dame
and you're like, yeah, Ihit eighty eight one time with a Velo

(15:39):
slap and smelling salts. I'm justlike, all right, we gotta throw
harder. It's just like you shouldn'thave to use that all the time.
And I remember the first ninety oneto five that you had background Christmas.
Just your reaction was amazing. Iposted that like when I do like the
Instagram post yesisodes, I did thatpicture for like the first episode of like
all right, We're back, Ohdid you yeah? Yes, yes,

(16:06):
everyone's first ninety is really exciting.But especially when you rebuild your throw,
it's it's very cool to see thework that you put in and see if
that it's working. Especially when Ithrew about that hard and we got more
there. Who knows some cleats ondude. Oh man, I would love
that with you know, some sadiumnoise and some some people going crazy.
It'd be fun if I, youknow, pop a little bit more,

(16:26):
but absolutely at a time. AbsolutelyOkay. So the other thing too,
I kind of want to just touchon this where I'm actually very proud of
you, where when you threw upthe top, you had this little gyro
and the biggest thing we talked aboutis just like attacking hitters and they'd be
actually important of getting out or howwe can get to get you to the
big leagues. And I think somethingthat you pulled out today that you've been

(16:49):
working on for about a week anda half, that cutter, it was
phenomenal. Yeah, it feels good. And the big best thing is it's
not it doesn't have to be themost perfect metric cutter. It's just something
completely different from the rest of yourarsenal that you can use. Yeah,
it's honestly, it comes from watchingKevin Kelly with the race. Yes,
he's got it because he's very he'sgot his obviously a sinker which is super

(17:10):
lateral that way, his sweeper whichis super lateral the other way. But
then he's got that cutter in themiddle to kind of blend the two bridge.
And that's how like there's a lotof similar as different as this is,
there's still a lot of similar philosophystuff when it comes to pitch design
and like what I want my movein charge to kind of look like,
and it's it's all very it's asdifferent as the rest of it is,

(17:33):
it's still there are still a lotof principles in baseball that you got to
keep the same. Talking to hittersafterwards, they were like, yeah,
it's really good in between, LikeI can't because they see spin and they
try to like slow down on it, and then they see it's still coming
hard at them and they're like,oh shit, and they try to just
spin off correct speed up to itcorrect. And that's that's the biggest thing
with your cutters, the fact thatyou're able to throw it in between your

(17:53):
slider and your fastball speed to whereyou are actually able to get like withfs
on it in a good but you'regonna just get guys to just jam up
and roll over all the time.Yeah, I think I think throwing a
hard is definitely the thing that isgonna help me the most with that absolutely.
Yeah. So anyways, you youknow, you have that bullpen where
you throw the shit out and you'relike, damn, I should probably say

(18:15):
here, what made you? Wait, I'm curious what made you continue to
drop lower? Because that you're aroundlike a two feet release height. Yeah.
So I ended up actually making myprofessional debut in September for the Gastonia
Honey Hunters and that it was ablast just being on the field again for
the first time in years without havingthe anxiety of the yips and just being

(18:37):
able to go out there. Granted, the first guy I saw, I
clipped his elbow guard and I wasjust like, oh no, but ended
up getting out of the inning fine. I did give up a run,
but I had two strikeouts and Igot a four big layer to roll over,
so I was really really awesome.Who was it? So? Yeah,
I mean, yeah, you getthrough the inning, fine, you
fucking crush it. And it wasthat was just the end of the year.

(19:00):
Uh yeah. So it was justa weekendstant because they just needed an
arm and actually just to fill inbecause we're right for the playoff push,
so finish up with that and weactually then had a vlo off for breast
cancer awareness. That was Yeah,that dude, that was what. That's
like one of I think top likefive coolest baseball environments I've been in because
everyone was screaming. Everybody does.Yeah, it was especially even when Nancy

(19:23):
and the other girl were doing theactually was yeah, that was awesome.
It's cool just to watch people rip, you know, it's just like a
lot of energy. You just getto see a lot of emotion, and
that's the biggest thing. It's justlike it's kind of just like he's got
the bigger dog. It was.It was awesome. You fucking I think
you hit like a ninety six andsix. Yeah, I had a six
and you turn around and you justgo the guy I did. That was

(19:47):
great. But yeah, and thenI remember I would just see if I
could rip one underneath and it wasonly like ninety one or something that was
like got whatever, and everyone's like, what are you doing. I was
like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, But after that, I
ended up taking a d load andI was, you know, just give
myself two weeks off because in theback of my mind I had to get
ready for Pro Day in January.Yeah, and I just want to give
myself a little bit of time tojust regroup and everything. And when I

(20:08):
started throwing it again, because Ididn't pick up ball for two weeks and
that was actually the first time Ihaven't done that or I've done that in
years, and it felt really goofyto pick up a ball again. And
when I started throwing again because II was just selling out for side arm
at the time and I didn't realizeit, but my slot just got lower

(20:29):
and lower and lower every time Iwas throwing, and then all of a
sudden, it just became natural towhere it just two. Yeah. I
feel like when I was it wasprobably like October. I come here in
of September, we have a greatweek of training, and I figure out
a bunch of stuff. Then Igo home and I feel like I started
then to drop more and I juststarted not understanding what was going on with

(20:51):
my body. And then I actuallyI had a really I got really lucky.
Someone put me in touch with thesky that ross. Yes, yeah,
I told you about this. Hewe kind of talked, and it's
one thing you like kept talking about, was like consistency, just like in
the arm angle, because I waslike, I have no idea what my
arm angle is like I have noidea where it's coming out and through I
felt good. I was like,all right, three and a half feet
looks like a good spot for me. Yes, And just finding that consistency

(21:15):
it has really helped me absolutely.And I remember when you first came in
the house, you were just like, granted, there was a lot of
movement efficiencies, but it was justmore of you were just almost like bathing,
just kind of like cutting everything through. You were still just very new
to it. Yeah, And itwas like I remember one of the things
I told you was just like thinkin your mind first at arm because you're
going to already lean over and it'slike the biggest thing is you're going to
throw over the top here, andit's like the only thing that changes is

(21:37):
your torso angle, So don't thinklike trying to work underneath the ball per
se. Yeah, and then youdid come up a little bit, and
then you just maintained right there likethree and a half feet the whole time,
and then you just started to learnhow to rotate. Yeah, yeah,
thank you very much teach me toI thought I had an idea.
I had no fucking clue. No, your block was so bad. Yeah
we're still getting there. But yeah, so all right, yeah you get

(22:00):
down to two feet, what madeyou decide like two feets the spot for
you? So some of my reallygood friends at tread were the data guys,
and so they run through the Shinyapp that they created just you're able
to grade out everything, and myslo I always wondered how you guys graded
out like stuff. Plus yes,I was always curious. Yes, So

(22:22):
the shiny app basically has every bigleague pitcher in arsenal, and the formula
and stuff that runs basically in gradesout just you know stuff. If there's
one hundred guys that all throw thesame slot, then the stuff starts to
be graded differently. It comes downinto more metrics than anything else. It's
like it's where it's like velocity playsobviously the hard you can throw something,

(22:44):
and then also too it's like releaseheight stuff like that, and then from
there it just I don't know theformula personally, they are way smarter numbers
than I am. But basically,when I started throwing pens, it was
just I didn't really throw a tonof pens. When I was throwing side
arm. It was just more justlike I hit ninety five. I threw
one live and even looking back atthe live now, my release height was

(23:04):
so much higher than it is now. At the time, I was like,
oh, that's like side on.Now I'm thinking like, no,
I'm throwing mow now. Yeah,but started just ripping my breaking ball and
I just like really doing a lotof like work on like how to actually
maximize a sweeper for guys who aren'tlike crazy supernaters. And so that's where
that spike comes into play. Ilove this spike. The spy. Yeah,

(23:26):
you can throw it hard. Yeah, I've always tried, like,
well there is There was a timein pro baw while I was like,
dude, I can't fucking spin breakingball like it was. I was literally
going out there like four seam cutterchange up as a starter, and it
was making it work. Great,You're gonna I was getting out. Yeah.
But and then I was in ahigh in twenty nineteen and I finally
figured out a breaking ball that wasliterally I'm I'm not kidding you when I

(23:48):
tell you this story. This ishow I learned how to throw a breaking
ball. They gave me a slidergrap and they're like, yeah, I
just throw it harder and I couldn'tget through it all the way. And
I'm watching a baseball documentary called Baseballby Ken Burns. I highly reckomon it's
on Amazon. I think you mighthave to pay for it, but like
it's worth just to own forever.And they're talking about they're talking about Mordecai
Brown. Okakay. His nickname wasthree finger Brown because when he was a

(24:11):
kid he blew off some of hisfingers playing with dynamite. Swear to God,
all right, And they're talking abouthow like, yeah, because he
didn't have his index finger, hecould snap off a nasty breaking ball.
And I was like, oh mygosh, just just get it out of
the way. And I go tothe field the next day and I throw
it and I throw it to mybuddy Huddy Shratton, who debuted last year
with the Pirates, and I rememberbeing like, holy fuck, I figured

(24:33):
it out. It was is thateasy? It was awesome. And it's
funny too because I didn't know metricsback then. But I go back and
look and I was like, ohwow, I was getting like twenty inches
of horizontal back in twenty nineteen,like when I had no idea what I
was even doing, Like it wasgroche. It was a true sweeper before
I even knew what a sweeper was. Yes, and I was this is
also still up over the top comingfrom somebody that's like currently in the game

(24:55):
when you were and your catch partnerare playing catch obviously players, I feel
like now we're starting to get innermore two metrics understanding through stuff through like
true media and just their own datateams, organizations. But it's like when
you were out playing catch and youthrow, granted you threw a really good
sweeper event at the time when you'replaying catch, do you guys use idar
or how do you or if youthrow something, you're like, oh that's
nasty, but or you could throwsomething and it gets guys out. You're

(25:19):
talking about movement or talking about vlomovement, Like when we play catch,
when you and you play catch,we'll throw some nasty shit at each other
and then it's like, in reality, was it gross? I don't know.
That's the thing with us is likewe throw so weird that everything's gross
correct correct, Like we were talkingabout how like our eyes kind of struggle

(25:41):
to pick up the ball, andit's just because we're so used to watching
it come from the top. Itjust like shocks you for a second.
It gets on you a little bitharder. Yeah, I'm gonna ask I
hate it. I don't want youto not throw it to me, but
I hate it. You threw noidea. What's gonna do? No,
that's that's been kind of like mynewest project for me, trying to find
a third pitch to be able touse. I think it's fucking gross.

(26:02):
I'm trying to think that like otherguys that I play catch with, Hunter
Shandon's really gross. I do playcatch with Mike bros. He that is
probably the scariest day to catch itin debut this year. Okay, you
got TJ. Last year he's withthe Pirates. He was in my draft
class. He figured out what spinnerywas during COVID and went, oh,
what's this and bo really just devastatingstuff. Okay, he's he's a fucking

(26:27):
elite athlete. He's gonna be reallygood. Tyler samon Yego is another guy
that is a motherfucker to play catchwith because he throws a ship out of
the ball from the left side andit's nasty sink. It's crazy. He
will like sit like ninety two ninetythree with a sinker and then he will
not change the grip and go allright, I'm gonna strike you out now,
and just throws ninety six and it'sjust rise ball really same same grip.

(26:49):
I'm like, dude, you likegot just down. Feel is just
he just throws the fuck out ofit and it just goes whoop. So
he just dads, just takes someoff and then he just sinks it that
way. Yeah, like our wholeday of catch is like, all right,
sinkers, there's a slider. Slider'sreally good. But I know his
sinker. I know actually when hestarts playing catch, it cuts the ship
out of the ball. But thenhe'll start sinking it like crazy. And

(27:11):
then when he goes all right,I'm good and he'll go his last fastball,
I'm like, all right, thisthing's gonna take off. Yeah,
and it just goes really rise.Yeah. That's crazy, just like preperceptional
feel behind understand what you're doing.I don't think he even the way the
way at least we talk about it. He's just like I just try to
throw. He's from Alabama, goesI just try to throw the ship out
of some of those like just eliteathletes. They don't really know what they're

(27:34):
doing. It's just like their bodyjust self organic. It's impressive. It's
very cool. But yeah, dudesare gross. Dudes are gross. Yeah,
the game is getting really good,and I think part of that is
is Tread and stuff that you getsput out. It's a lot of fun.
Go check out all all this stuffand try athletics uh YouTube channel,
TikTok all that stuff because it's alot of fun to check that stuff out.

(27:57):
What's uh, tell me what it'sbeen. Some of the cooler stuff
about working at Tread the faces andpeople I get to meet. Like I'm
being I'm being honest when I saythat, Like I actually do enjoy hang
out with you kind of like everysingle day. You're a good human.
Best thing You're gonna You're gonna haveathletes who are good humans that you want

(28:18):
to see. And granted, sometimesyou're gonna have athletes who are just like,
what am I doing wrong? Andit's like, well, you're not
really talking to me, so Igotta I gotta figure this out. But
the biggest thing in my opinion withTread it's the camaraderie between coaches. I
had some friends. The reason whyI got this job is I was told
to apply by a couple of friendsthat are currently there. And granted a

(28:42):
lot of faces have left and goneinto pro ball, and I'm so happy
for them because they deserve to bein pro ball working as coaches and stuff.
And actually, one of my bestfriends, Sean Fisher shout out,
he's actually at wake Forest now astheir new webcom Oh yeah, I remember
that I was leaving that yes,yeah. So it's just like it's really
cool to see people evolve, andI'm and I'm if you deserve it,

(29:03):
I'm gonna always be happy for you. It's the biggest thing is it's like
being a run your own race,you know. And I remember, I
remember you guys had that. Dude, Devin Hayes loved that he left to
the Tigers and everyone, Oh fuck, the Tigers are gonna get nasty,
nasty. Yeah, they're gonna getso good. Yes, yeah, Devin
is a coordinator with them now andjust absolutely loving it. And actually one
of our data guys, Kieran,he's gonna be with the Blue Jays,

(29:26):
oh complex. And actually another oneof the coaches, Alex Cacheler, who
is just the magic Beans with pitchdesign. He he's actually one of their
complex coaches as well. Yeah,yeah, pirate. I was gonna say,
don't the Blue Jays have the bestbest facilities out there on the word
on the street. They Yeah,they'd finished their stuff a couple of years

(29:48):
or I think maybe a year ortwo ago. Dude, twenty nineteen,
we would play them in High Aand they were the Dunning and Blue Jays.
Their facility was under renovations. Really, do you know where we played
while playing, like like in themiddle of summer? Really? Yeah?
We played at a juco field inpro ball where I think it was like
Saint Pete like junior college. Itwas okay, dude, it was unbelievable.

(30:14):
It felt like I was in college. I felt like I was at
a D two, Like no onewas there and this field was crappy.
It was it was wild. That'sthat's insane. I'm pretty sure. Actually
I think it is Arizona. Theyplay with the Hops. I'm pretty sure
they were playing at Oregon in Eugene. Yeah, who was telling me about
that? There was a kid,Dylan Mighty San Francisco Giants kid. Yes,

(30:37):
yes, dude, he was.I didn't know he was the guy
that got robbed. Yeah, yeah, I saw that tweet. Did you
see that? John Boy? Ijust saw like I saw the tweet months
ago and was like, oh wow, that's crazy. And then I've been
talking to him and like just beingcool with because that's the cool thing about
Tred is that we like, youmight not know people's names. Dude.
You know Tyler and Lucas. Yeah, I didn't know their names. For

(30:57):
really, everyone's bros there. Theydidn't know my name either. That was
the funniest thing. They were like, we're gonna be honest, man,
we got no idea what your nameis. I'm like, dude, I
thank god no. But that's thething. It's like, I feel like
in those environments, it's like,yah, you play Pro Bowl, You're
good. Hey, what's up.It's just like everyone's just like super cool.

(31:18):
Yeah. It was rooting for eachother. Correct. I don't think
there's a huge like you don't reallyrun into a huge ego problem with a
lot of players, especially when you'reall trying to achieve the same goal.
Especially I guess it might be differentin season and stuff like that. But
like when you're in a facility andstuff like that where the pressure is off,
it's like you're gonna be able tobuild some row. Yes, yes,
it's awesome. And like everybody thatgets starts to just take a step

(31:38):
closer to that. You're like,yes, come on, dude, let's
go, let's go. You knowwho? All right? If you had
to choose one guy to be likethe fucking mascot for Tread that everyone roots
for you're talking about as a player. As a player, I got one
guy in mind. Is he inPro Bowl? No? No, not

(32:00):
the guy I have in mind.Okay, you could have someone in mind
that you're like, do that guy. I gotta get back to you on
that one. I gotta be inMason, Ah, dude, maybe everyone
loves it so for you guys thatdon't know Mason, and I'm sorry,

(32:21):
I don't know his last name,but he is this lanky, ast high
schooler that has gone from seventy eightto actually hitting ninety for the first time
two weeks ago and it was likethe greatest mode of his life. And
he's an absolute grinder, one ofthe nicest kids I've ever met. And
it just like it's really cool towatch him grow into a young man and

(32:42):
hopefully being able to play in collegebaseball. Yeah, he's I root for
the kids so hard every day.He's such a light in my life,
like I see him. Like.Funny story, so last offseason, No
Cindergard was in house and Mason actuallywent up to Cyindergarten and introduced himself and
didn't know Cyndergaard's name, and heasked him if he was in Pro Bowl

(33:02):
and then oh, yes, Andthen I'm just watching him throw. That's
the biggest thing I think you've learnedwith me. I just like watching people
throw. It doesn't matter if you'regood or not. I just like kind
of like just watch. And Iremember I was watching No Cyindergaard throw and
makes it came up with me.He's like, should ask him for his
autograph? I said absolutely not.Yeah, no, I don't do that.

(33:25):
No, no, oh man.Yeah, but dude, Mason is
just an absolute gem. I fuckingabsolutely love great kid. He's such a
Dyes, he's originally an Ohio kid. His family moved from Cincinnati. Yes,
just since a guy. I'm excitedto see, you know. I
followed him on Instagram the other day, So I'm excited to see like how
easier kind of goes and absolutely along, what are you most excited for this

(33:49):
year? This might be a grimanswer, all right, but to finally
figure out what it is I'm likesupposed to do on this earth. Ok
Because if I'm supposed to play baseball, great, this is gonna be the
year I do it. Yes,it's very freeing feeling because this is I
mean, I signed a contract sixyears ago. This will be my seventh

(34:12):
season probat of my rookie minor leaguecontracts with no money attached to it at
all. So like in the wayit is like I'm not gonna I don't
think there's a way I go aboutthis year where it's like, oh wow,
I did, Like okay, likeI'll get a free agent deal next
year cause and it's like because I'mdropping down, like either I'm gonna do

(34:34):
good enough to make it to theshow or I'm gonna go get a job,
like and I'm okay with either oneat this point. I obviously want
to make it to the big leieslike that every first pick, but I'm
okay with either one happening at thispoint. And it's not a self doubt
thing. It's not a like overconfidencething of like I'm gonna make it to
the big lies. It's like I'mit's not my responsibility at this point.
Like me and you have done everythingwe can. You've had an awesome trainer,

(34:57):
You've been as helpful as I couldhave ever held for. I appreciate
and I feel like I'm now ona spot where it's like it's either going
to happen or it's not. AndI had my first live today. I
faced all lefties. Last year,lefties were a nightmare for me because I
couldn't throw strike to him and Ipounded the zone and you got some stupid
swings. I got some great Yeah, I got some great swings. I

(35:17):
kind of wish I recorded it,but oh well, yeah, I'm just
sitting there on track. Man,I don't know if you can hear me.
I was like, yes, sill, I heard, Yeah, what
about you? What are you?Most? Are you do you want to
talk about? Yeah? I can, I can hit on it. So
uh yeah. So I actually throughin Pro Day this year and really anxious,
scared going into it, and it'sjust trying to get back into playing

(35:40):
because my dream is to obviously bea big leaguer like every other kid.
And I guess the first step isgetting back into the game. And I
can't guess. The biggest blessing thatGod's given me was the opportunity to drop
it down where it was the biggestblessing, happy accident, just to do
it and realize I was really goodat it and through in pro day.
Granted I didn't throw, in myopinion, the prettiest bullpen, it was

(36:06):
still metrically really really good. Yeah, And I talked to a few teams
afterwards, and then that following weekI actually got an invite to throw for
the Diamondbacks at their complex. Iactually here coming up at the end of
February, which I'm very excited forbecause it's more of another workouts, which's
like you throw well in live,where it's like you get a job or
you don't. So yeah, it'sexciting, man. I'm excited for you

(36:30):
to get out there and fucking getafter it. Pretty sure you enjoy easy
a little bit. Yes, I'mexcited for you. I think the I
think this guy's a limit. Ithink the most important thing is just to
make hitters hit the ball. Iagree and that like just like, go
ahead, I want you like,I want you to hit this ball?
Are you going to face their I, to be honest, have no idea.

(36:52):
Are they inviting hitters or are theyinviting one pro guys? I don't
know. I really have no idea. They just me the time and date
and they said, you're throwing liveYou're not throwing a bullpen. We want
to see you play baseball. Isaid, okay, you bring pants,
bring pants, bring pants today?But chicken owt I was gonna get I'll
wear him next week. But ayeah, I'll send you a video.

(37:15):
Are you a loose or are youa tight pants guy? I'm a tighter
pants guy. Okay, I gottago down now, I gotta go down,
go down. In terms of pants, okay, okay, no knickers,
it's a knickers. Knickers. I'mgonna put the words spelled out right
here with stirrups or high socks.No pirates are first. My first two

(37:43):
seasons, you had to have pantsup. Really is a picture or just
in general? All players? Everybody? Really? Yeah? I got the
most vacuum sealed pants I could possiblyfind. It was awesome. My teammates
didn't ship for it. I waslike, it doesn't matter, it doesn't
matter. It looked play honestly.Hell yeah, yeah, how does it
feel? I feel like you're kindof rare for this, but being with

(38:06):
an ORG for so far the entireduration of your contract, Yeah, I
feel like that's not always happening.No, it's I know, it's a
rare thing. It's funny just talkingto a lot of guys even I tried,
They're like, oh, yeah,I was with this team and then
they cut me, and then Igot tigned with this team and I've been
there since then, and it's ayou know, it's been wild to watch
the transformation because I mean, Iwas drafted by a different GM, different

(38:28):
front office. You were drafted byHuntington when she was Huntington. I went
to school. Yeah, yes,yes, I never I met Huntington one
time. It wasn't even like Imet him. I've always heard good things
about him. Great, great thePirates of pre Covid where they were one
thing. And then the front officeloves me because I was a start I

(38:49):
was so like, I'm going todo my own own horn here. I
was really good at the starting pitcher. I loved it. Okay, I
I knew when my start was,who was facing their lineup, what I
was wearing, the weather that day, Like I knew everything about my start
day. And I would scout likecrazy. And I have a notebook at
home just like that one, andit was filled with scouting boards. I
could it had every hole of everyhitter in the entire Southern Atlantic League I

(39:14):
took. So I was gonna say, you did your own like like pregame
notes rather than well or it wasn'teven a yeah. I mean they one
of our one of our tech guys, he was like, all right,
just here's a true media signing.Just don't tell anybody. And I would
sit in my room and just watchand scout. That's awesome, And it
was. It was the best becauseI could watch guys swings, and I
think that's what was the most importantthing for me, is like scouting,

(39:37):
just being like, Okay, Iknow exactly when I'm throw this guy every
single bad today and like it doesn'tmatter. But then, did you know
that whole that front office loves me? I think I had. I think
I had four outings, four outingsin the first my first year and a
half where I went like one inninglike seven or one hit seven innings?

(39:59):
Wow, Like was I was?I was really good. That front office
loved me, but they got fired. Uh, the new front office comes
in, They're like, who isthis tall guy who doesn't throw hard but
tries to hit spots like no,you're going to the bullpen, go to
double a and like good luck.And it's it's been a grind since then,
and I've they've, thankfully, youknow, kept on giving me opportunities,

(40:20):
and every time they have asked meto do something new, I've learned
how to do it absolutely. Twentytwenty one, they asked after the twenty
one season, they asked me tofigure out how to differentiate between my forcing
my my sinker, and I developeda foot of move and on there.
Going into twenty three, they askedme to develop a bigger breaking ball that
was, you know, more ofa sweeper, and I did that,
And now they've asked me to dropdown and I've I'm doing that as well.

(40:42):
So I actually laughed really hard whenyou told me, well, the
bigg thing was like the sinker profilebeing like negative seven plus and then just
obviously competing in the zone. Butwhen you told me today that they didn't
care about you hitting ninety. Iwas like, what, Yeah, No,
that was never part of the conversation. That was always it's like,
we don't care how or do youthrow, just make the ball move more.

(41:05):
And I was like, I don'tknow, but yeah, yeah,
Well, to be honest, Irather have you throwing ninety than eighty three.
Yeah. It's way more. Ican throw way more strikes and it's
way more effectives. A little bitof fear too. If a guy's throwing
eighty three, everyone's gonna kind ofroll their eye, like, fuck,
I don't want to face this guy. Yeah, if I'm throwing ninety from
down there, it's like, dude, it's really uncomfortable. Yeah, so
I'm excited for it, especially likethe rightis because theyn't even get a chance

(41:28):
to face the readies today. No, that's that's why I wish we did
have some rities, because it's withboth of our repertoires, they just play
so well against like that's what we'redesigned for. Yes, yes, get
out of big situations. Yeah,but no, anyways, back to your
original question, Yeah, it's beencool to be with the same organ it's
been really cool to watch it growand develop like it has because we were

(41:50):
the old school way of looking atbaseball like no, you gotta you know,
bust a guy inside, you gottado this out or the other thing,
and like it worked. But theway baseball has transformed and is can
continue to grow and change, iswe're much more you know in those lines
now, Yes, yes, yeah, I think that's all. I think

(42:14):
that's all I got. I don'tknow you got anything else you want to
talk about? I mean, allright, all right, so I guess
my nickname it works, shark marked, the shark mark, the shark.
What's your what's your spirit animal?My spirit animal? I mean, I
guess I gotta go giraffe, right, all right, just tall tall,
yeah. Fun fact drafts can likekill lions. That's sick. Yeah they

(42:38):
yeah, And then the hoofs goon YouTube or animal plan. Just look
up giraffes like they're protecting their youngand stuff. Yeah, they're they're dangerous.
Someone posed this question on a podcastor something the other day that I
was listening to. Do you thinkgirafts? So all right, there's like
Darwinism, this is gonna get downthere. Okay, okay, yeah,
we're good. Do you think Darwinismled to like, oh, well,

(43:00):
these animals that grew longer necks,like you know, they just happened to
grow a longer neck. Then theyate all those trees? Yes? Or
was there a draft that was obviouslyshorter with not as long as a neck,
but it would continue to stretch andtry to reach and try to push
itself, and then its body figuredout like, oh I need to my

(43:20):
neck needs to continue to get longerhere. So it's almost like what came
first the chicken or the eye kindof thing? A little bit? Did
it was it was worn with aweird neck or I think what what it?
You know? Did it just continueto pull and pull and try to
grow itself in that way? Right? I personally? Uh? In just
terms of evolution, I think theyevolved from Bronchiosaurus, one of the biggest

(43:43):
definitely not what happened one of thebiggest dinosaurs out there that those are lizards,
But I don't know nods, theydidn't. They're not bovine creatures.
I get that. Were they allwizards? Yeah, every single one of
them? What every single din wasa lizard? I mean they're all a

(44:08):
bird cold blooded? No, No, I mean, I mean, to
be honest, none of us reallyknow, but I but like I like
t rex, yeah, lizard,but some of them involved in the birds,
Yeah, I don't Rocky sours definitelyweren't. They weren't rafts, there's

(44:30):
no way, long ass neck true. But over the course of millions and
years, I mean, yes,you also think they're not mammals. Hold
on a second, Yeah, waita second, that's the word. So
where did mammals come into play?Where did they evol from what mammals?
Yeah, at one point they hadthey split. Yeah, at one point

(44:52):
there was a creature that was justlaying eggs. Can you imagine it's like
not laying an egg being animals,they always laid eggs, and then eventually
they sect it off. And thenthere was a group of animals that stopped
playing eggs. They would have justharvest, they would correct. So that's
the first mable that's way before anyof that. Yeah, okay, So

(45:13):
going back to it, I thinkthat the drafters continue to extend at snack.
It became, it became, itbecame involved itself. Yes, yeah,
yeah, that's all is the evolutionof athletes exactly, same thing.
You got to wrap it up.I'm good. Where can people find you
on social media? Uh at MFisher fifty on Instagram or Fish of Athletes

(45:37):
on Instagram as well, or TikTok. Fuck yeah, thanks for having me
on. It's been a pleasure on