April 22, 2024 • 46 mins
On this week's More Perfect Union podcast, the gang looks at the potential ban of TikTok, the state of high-speed rail, pro-Palestinian protests and rising antisemitism on college campuses, and which celebrities the hosts would cast as attorneys in the Trump Trial.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:15):
Welcome to The More Perfect Union,the podcast that offers real debate without the
hate. I'm Rebecca Kushmeider, comingoff a frantic weekend of driving way too
many places, and i am joinedhere on the mic by Greg Matuzak,
your common sense liberal who from Cincinnati, Ohio, who's very glad this is
(00:36):
the first week I was very gladnot to be in the courtroom with Donald
Trump from what all the reports havesaid or smell, I mean, I
think masking is about to come backinto fashion parts of Manhattan, but maybe
safety basking. DJ McGuire, whohas had a wonderful weekend watching the House
(00:59):
pass Ukraine funding it last. Yeah, Nix and the Knicks and Rangers won.
It's been a great weekend. Ididn't know you were a Rangers fan.
How did you absolutely all the kidsin school with General's fans because of
New Jersey and I hated all thekids in school, so with the Rangers.
Okay, valid, totally valid,And last but not least, Kevin
(01:19):
Calton in his Rangers jersey in mynumber seven, Roger'll bear Rangers jersey.
You know I lived and died bythe New York Rangers in the late sixties
and early nineteen seventies, and thenI became an Islanders fan in the late
seventies and early eighties. Yeah,were you a Rangers fan out of spite
and revenge? Or was it likegenuine self loathing? Like most Rangers fan
(01:42):
there has to be like a storyof anger and ah oh yeah, many
many of years of that. Backthen there there weren't devils, and there
weren't Islanders for a while. Sothe Rangers are the only game in town
as bad as they were, Yes, but yeah, I might revenge why
people get into hockey in the firstplace. Yes, Yes, indeed the
(02:04):
night they won the Stanley Cup innineteen four was the night. It was
the night I told I told mymom that I was going to marry my
first wife, and I was farhappier that the Rangers had won, and
I probably could take that step.We were divorced within a year. But
yes, I am a proud Rangersfan. But I'm even more proud of
(02:24):
what I'm about to tell you.I will be traveling this week to Florida
for a big event. My mom, if she makes it another five days,
will be one hundred and three yearsold on Friday, oh my mozle
tough Kevin. That's wonderful. Andduring Passover, no less thanks. I
didn't do it, she did it. That's that's great. And to get
(02:46):
to spend part of Passover with her. I hope you've got your grandmother's chop
liver recipe. I actually have apretty good chop livery recipe. But now
we're going out for dinner, soI won't be cooking, probably for the
best. Yeah, not that you'renot that disparage in you're cooking. I'm
just saying it's a hassle. No, you should disparage my cooking. I've
never eaten your cooking, so Icannot comment on the health and safety issues
(03:10):
that arise from when Kevin enters thekitchen. Speaking of things that have been
cooking. Congress actually got to dosome work this week. They passed some
legislation to force TikTok's China based ownerto sell the company. This week.
The bill was part of a largerforeign a package to this tease it up
for actual immediate sent consideration. Andso you know, one of the main
(03:34):
reasons that this is being the TikTok'sbeing challenged is because of user data and
who gets their hands on it.And user data, as we all know,
is a global commodity. Personal datais one of the most valuable commodities.
And it begs the question why isCongress more upset when China has access
to user data than when anyone elselike Mark Zuckerberger, Elon Musk or the
(03:58):
US government has acts And Kevin,I'm going to throw this to you.
You can tell me why you thinkCongress is upset about this. I have
to tell you. I have noidea. You know, I'm one of
those people. I tend to trustthe US government. Now, sometimes that
trust has been badly misplaced. Butwhen when they tell us that something is
(04:18):
a national security risk, I tendto believe that because it's sort of like
you know, with COVID, Itrust the experts, I trust the scientists.
In this case, I trust ourintelligence agencies. I have no idea
why it's a risk, and frankly, I wish that they would share that
with us. Yeah. So,I actually one of my bad habits that
(04:42):
I've acquired, probably in the pastyear, is doom scrolling. Yeah.
Do you guys know what doom scrollingis? Yes, we're all there,
all right, And I get,well, that's bad for kids, and
that's bad for adults. But you'reright, Kevin says that they say,
hey, this is bad, andI would I'm completely on Kevin's side with
(05:03):
that, But in this instance,they keep saying, this is so bad
we can't show you. Well,we're all adults in the room. How
bad could it be? I mean, when we went through the COVID thing,
they said this is bad, We'regoing to show you the formulas.
How bad could it really be thatthey can't show us unless there's money involved?
(05:24):
And then in which case, yeah, they're crooked. Well, there's
certainly money involved. But what isthe data that TikTok is collecting? Is
it location data? Is it spendingdata? And why is that dangerous for
the Chinese government to have? AndI don't fully understand, DJ. Do
you have any insight into that?No, I don't, because, frankly,
the user data argument was never theargument that actually won the day.
(05:46):
It's not the reason that it gotthrough the house. The reason it got
through the house the first time andhow the second time again is because TikTok
has basically been an open sewer ofmisinformation on Ukraine, on Taiwan and on
the Israel Hamas war, particularly theIsrael Hamas war. And when the first
(06:06):
piece of legislation passed saying look,Bite Dance needs to sell this in six
months or else it will be offour platforms. Bite Dance's response was to
tell all of its TikTok users thisbill has passed, lie about it and
tell them to basically call every memberof Congress and a screaming fury about a
(06:26):
bill that was not actually what waspassed. This one actually gives more time
for a deal. It gets abouta year instead of six months, so
that's more helpful. And it's justwhen Zuckerberg comes in and he says,
look, you've got too much misinformationon your stuff. You can argue back
and forth of them. They cantry to do something, but you know
win, I mean, Elon Muskis Elon Musk. But when you have
(06:49):
a hostile regime owning a social mediaplatform that is spewing disinformation in your country,
you do something about it. Andthat's what this is about. It's
not about the user data. Well, I'd be curious what the numbers actually
are on misinformation across metas platforms andacross TikTok, versus Twitter, versus truth,
(07:12):
social YouTube, rumble, all ofthem. Kevin, what were you
going to say? Well, Ithink this falls into the category of possibly
cyber war or cyber events. Andyou know, when I was younger and
we were just entering the nuclear confrontationage the Cold War, the government,
to the extent that I understood it, shared with us the potential dangers of
(07:36):
a nuclear conflict. I don't,Again, going back to my original point,
I wish the government would explain tous what the danger is of China
having all of this information. I'mnot sure that I fully agree with DJ's
analysis that it's more about misinformation.I think it is about data or some
(08:00):
other element of information that would impangeon our national security, and I think
that they should share that information withus so we can understand the problem and
therefore as a country we can dealwith it. Well. I think all
of these points that we're making getsto the fact that TikTok, like other
social media platforms, particularly the onesthat are sort of this short content that
(08:22):
kind of you know, are theentry point to a rabbit hole, they
have become crucial to the flow ofinformation. They're absolutely crucial. We all
use them, whether it's TikTok orInstagram or you know these other byte sized
platforms where we get, you know, a couple minutes of something and it
begins to form the kernel of anopinion. You know, there are downsides,
as we're saying here the misinformation problem, but they are also upsides,
(08:46):
and there's an economy there. Peopleare making their livings off of TikTok,
and I think that's wonderful. Ithink that's what their content creators. I
want to piggyback what Kevin said.I really don't want the government to share
any of the technology or the datawith me, but I want them to
share it with my fourteen year oldchild slowly explain it to me, Well,
(09:07):
yeah, you could, you know. And speaking of the fourteen year
old child, greg I was Iwas thinking about this earlier today. My
son was interested in a summer sportsprogram and I asked him for more information.
And if you go back to ourdays in high school, we would
have come home with a flyer andhanded it to our parents, and twenty
years ago it would have been awebsite that you know, your kid would
(09:28):
have given you the link to lookit all up. Mike had hand me
his phone with the Instagram account ofthe sports program pulled up, and I
could use that to start it.And there's you know, these platforms have
actually become the infrastructure for advertising,you know, brick and mortar programs like
this, you know, And andit's visually appealing, it's easy to get
(09:54):
the right information across quickly, it'seasy to bookmark. And so when I
see government starting to mess with that, I get very uncomfortable because it does
feel like it is going to compromiseparts of the economy, not just content
creators, but everybody else too.Let me ask you guys something. Uh,
(10:15):
you guys apparently followed TikTok probably alot more than I do. Who
is your favorite TikToker? Oh?I've got a good one right now.
My favorite TikToker is doctopus. It'sthis family in Oklahoma that adopted an octopus
for their eight year old who's abig fan of octopi, and the octopus,
unbeknownst to them, had been fertilizedand impregnated before they got her,
(10:37):
and she laid fifty eggs in likeeight detO twenty. Some of these little
tiny pity Octopi survived and so nowthey're they're documenting this experience of trying to
keep these these little tiny creatures aliveand find appropriate homes for them in aquarium.
So doctopus is my favorite TikToker?What about you, Greg? There's
a he's on Instagram and TikTok calledTizzy. Oh love Tizzy. I got
(11:01):
a Tizzy retweet once. Don't youreally that'll that'll get your numbers up respect.
So Tizzy is someone if there isa uh it wasn't you always just
like my grandmother, you always gowith dick and fark jokes. But he's
someone who, uh, if there'san issue with justice or racism, he
(11:24):
brings it too many people's attention.He tries to find culprits. He does
very responsible. Once he finds theiridentity, he turns it over to the
police, but he asks his followersto help, uh, you know,
be a better place when he seesinjustices everything from like missing children to uh
like Karen who's pissed off that hersuper's coat cold and said so, or
(11:46):
like the recent Indiana student Asa Blaton. Yeah, and DJ, do you
have a favorite TikToker? You looklike you're looking up a Tiktoker's name.
No, I am actually not onTikTok, so I cannot answer that question.
However, hearing Rebecca's answer, Inow understand why Alan Tudik's character in
Resident Alien chose not to destroy theplanet Earth for the baby Octopi. It
(12:07):
makes perfect sense now, speaking ofthings that are getting destroyed or falling apart
or getting built. We've been makingjokes about Infrastructure Week for quite a few
years now, and it's big becomea punchline. But actually the state of
our infrastructure is not funny. Youknow, the Port of Baltimore is currently
on restricted use because of bridge felldown when a when a ship bumped into
(12:31):
it. And you know, arewe falling apart as a country? Are
we also falling behind by not investingin the next level of things? We
were talking earlier today about some highspeed rail projects and you know, there
are a bunch on the agenda,but are they actually going to take off
or I guess leave, leave theleave the station. What's the analogy there,
(12:58):
Kevin, you were the one whobrought it up, you know what
you were talking about? One fromLa to Vegas? Yeah, well you
know, I obviously everybody knows.I used to live in Los Angeles and
they've been talking about a ligne twoparticular projects, one from LA to San
Francisco and another one from LA toLas Vegas. And I was so in
(13:20):
favor of both of those because ifyou live on the West Coast, you're
constantly you know, you want togo to Vegas and you don't want to
drive the five and a half hoursfrom LA. You want to go to
San Francisco. It's the same thing. But even though these projects were a
go, and in my understanding they'reactually being built, the price has just
always kept skyrocketing. It would gofrom six billion to thirteen billion, and
(13:43):
pretty soon it was thirty billion dollars. I don't understand why this country cannot
develop high speed rail, and Ithink it is emblematic of a bigger problem.
I hope we can get on topof it, because in the twenty
first century we will be left bymind if we cannot keep up with these
kinds of technological developments, you know, and I think some of it may
(14:07):
actually be a problem with on thedemand side of things. You know,
are we just so attached to ourcars that we don't want to invest in
anything but cars. DJ you knowthis, this economics is kind of on
your your resume. Well, I'ma little confused because I thought the La
(14:28):
to San Francisco line sort of fellapart in a scandal when the city manager
of Vinci was murdered and oh,no way, that was HBS Trewe detective.
Never mind, there, I know, it's like, this sounds good,
he wrote his story. I there. Now. I think one of
(14:48):
the biggest problems that we and NoahSmith, who's an economists on sub stack
and on the other social media stuff, he talks about this constantly, is
that we have gone we are nowexcuse me. Every infrastructure project has to
go through so many permit processes andpermit cycles that it is much more difficult
(15:11):
to build something today than it wassixty, fifty or even thirty years ago.
And Congress did try to make thiseasier in twenty twenty two. Was
supposed to be part of the Mansionversion of the Inflation Reduction Act, and
it got dropped because the far leftsaid, no, we will not accept
this. But I really think weneed to take a good hard look at
(15:35):
our permit process, a good hardlook at all of the things that get
in the way of building stuff andcut it back and say we don't need
to do this anymore. I mean, those permit processes, some of those
are local in state, so it'snot just a federal problem. You know,
we need Pete Buddha Judge or somebodyto call for, you know,
(15:56):
a big review of permitting processes forinfrastructure projects to you know, see how
we can cut the time on those, cut the red tape. One question
I have to this is a technicalquestion. You guys may not even know.
Can a high speed rail use thesame tracks that already exist. I'll
call my fourteen year old telling youmaybe we just need fourteen year olds doing
(16:18):
this show for us, because ohmy goodness, talk and the trick track
and the train speeds and all ofthat. The actual answer is pure high
speed rail. No, it needsa separate kind of track. But there
is one and I'm forgetting the name, but it was in the article that
we read today, and I forgetwhich two cities it was going between,
(16:41):
but there is one that goes aboutone hundred and sixty miles an hour.
It's not technically what we call highspeed rail, but it's much faster than
contemporary modern trains, and it canuse the existing track with some modernization.
Because there's like the Ascella line thatyou know goes up and down the north
that might be it. Yeah,one's faster, but it's I think part
(17:02):
of the reason is that it's amore express train too. It doesn't stop
as many times as that like theNortheast. I can really get gone and
it costs a freaking fortune. Also, Thomas, the tank engine I think
needs to become high speed. Uhyeah, no, we'll put on a
high protein diet. We'll get it. Like even going keto and do sprints
(17:22):
every day with their top of hat. That's that's the way to do that,
you know. Speaking of wags toeven build train tracks, Biden wants
to stop us from buying nip On. We want to stop nip On Steel
from buying us steel and triple Chinesesteel tariffs, which I assume you need
(17:44):
steel to build train tracks. Idon't actually know. I've I've used leg
I've used I've used Legos for thatin the past. As our listeners might
be able to imagine, Rebecca isbasically reading this for the first time because
I put this in the rundown twohours ago. That's what I always gonna
say. DJ I was gonna saythat just tripped right off your tongue.
Yeah, this one is mine.Uh. And you know, Joe Biden
(18:08):
is one of the last politicians fromthe Japan scare of the late nineteen eighties,
when Japanese investment in the United Stateswas completely off the charts. They
bought the Rockefeller Center, they boughtthis, that, and the other.
Everyone was freaking out. Then wehad a recession, Japan's real estate bubble
burst, and the next thing Iknow, they were selling it back to
US at like bargain basement prices andsuch. And they just wanted like a
(18:33):
place to stay when they came toNew York too. It wasn't even it
wasn't like malicious investment in anyway.Carry on. They wanted some golf courses
that they could use. It's fine, But I do not understand why we
are so worried about an ally,and Japan has been an ally for seventy
odd years buying a steel company.We really can't fall for this, non
(18:56):
for the Trump nonsense of well,if you can't make stew you're not a
real country. All sorts of countriesthat choose to import their steel. It's
okay, now I can sympathize withwanting to make sure we don't buy Chinese
steel. But the best way tohave fixed that instead of raising prices on
businesses and consumers, well, businessesconsume steel, individuals don't, was to
(19:21):
join the trans specific partnership so thatwe would lower tariffs with our allies.
That's the more cost efficient way todo that. Joe Biden isn't going to
do that because unfortunately, no oneis willing to say that they support free
your trade anymore because it's supposedly notpopular. But that will change as the
cycles change, and I'll just haveto sit back and wait for it.
(19:41):
Well, I have a question aboutUS Steele. How many steel companies do
we actually have operational in America?Today? Is this you know, selling
the last one? Now? Ithink they're roughly I want to say they're
roughly a dozen, some that aresmaller than you at well, they're probably
all smaller than you steal honestly.And is the consolidation? Is any of
(20:03):
this in response to the inability toget steel out of black seaports because of
the Ukraine War I mean, arethese companies all sort of moving around trying
to, you know, maximize opportunity, you know, while Russia is messing
stuff up. I don't. I'mgoing to say I don't think so.
And the reason I'm going to I'mgoing to jump in on this is because
(20:26):
I follow the British press as well, and some of their large steel companies
are looking to be bought up byeither Indian or Japanese consortiums. And that
was before the before the Second UkraineWar fun as i'll call it, started,
So I don't think that's the reason. So it's just the sort of
normal shuffling of major commodities companies.Well, I see it. Yeah,
(20:49):
I don't. I don't have ananswer for you, Kevin Might Well,
uh, you know, I knowthat that DJ is a free trade proponent,
and I definite respect that there's acouple of I read two articles today,
one in favor of the steel andone against it. Frankly, both
sides make some great arguments, butfor me it comes down to, first
(21:14):
of all, the steel union orthe union that represents the steel workers,
is strongly against it. And Ialways err on the side of a union
like that when it's for economic reasons, and there's also just a question.
But you know, US Steel isone of the great American logos. It's
an iconic American company. And fora company named US Steel to be owned
(21:38):
by the Japanese. Now, Iknow that there are other American and I
say that near quotes companies that areowned by companies outside of the United States.
But for US Steel to be ownedby the Japanese, it does raise
some national security I mean, justthink if there was some kind of international
(21:59):
conflict, we had to manufacture airplanes, ships, other defense materials very quickly
and a foreign nation decided to slowdown or squeeze US for whatever political reason.
That is a national security issue.But the other thing I wanted to
bring up is the history of USSteel. Now I'm just slightly, I
(22:23):
think, weeks or months older thanyou guys, but I'm old enough to
remember when John F. Kennedy stoodup and DJ, I know you probably
know about this too, stood upto US Steel and I did some research
on this today. In nineteen sixtytwo, US Steel got into a labor
dispute with its union, and theKennedy administration mediated to help come to an
(22:48):
agreement. That ended in a newcontract, and it had a modest increase
in pay for union workers. Afew weeks later, Steal surprised the Kennedy
administration by announcing a big price increasein their products, and John F.
Kennedy was livid, and he wenton television during a presidential press conference,
(23:14):
and he took on us Steal ina way that we have not heard presidents
take on private enterprise quite frankly,maybe since Reagan fired the air traffic controllers.
I actually posted a clip from thatpress conference on the mpupodcast dot com
web page if anyone wants to hearit. When you hear John Kennedy in
(23:37):
this press conference, you will weepfor the type of presidents that we long
for and haven't seen with the exceptionof Barack Obama. It is a magnificent
performance, and I suggest that peoplego listen to it just to hear what
a real president sounds like. Butwith that in mind, Kennedy stood up
(23:59):
to you US Steel. Then JoeBiden is standing up to the company that
wants to buy US steel, andI think they were both correct. Look
to kind of keep to kind ofkeep this in perspective, though America is
still like the third largest producer steelin the world. That's not going to
change. So if there is anissue, and US Steel is is not
(24:21):
the largest steel company in America evenat this point, it's the second largest,
so I stay corrected. Oh that'sall right. I don't know if
you know this. I had tolook it up. You don't. You
don't have a list of top tensteel. Nobody's just in your what Greg?
I feel like I've been deceived.It is new core though. This
is why I've been quiet for solong. Is that well doom steel scrolling.
(24:48):
So I don't think it's the skyis falling as and I don't think
it's the affront on democracy. Andwe are still talking. These are industrial
steel companies. There's also the ministeel, which produces fifty nine percent.
And these are specialty steel companies whichare much smaller. There's well over one
hundred of them, and they producefifty nine percent of all American steel.
(25:11):
So there's lots of steel companies inAmerica. And I see this might be
a line in the sand, butit's not the line in the sand on
the hill we should die on.I think it's gonna be really fun tomorrow
at breakfast, Greg, when yourfourteen year old tries to tell you something
and you're like, oh yeah,and you give give them a lecture on
steel. I know I'm going tobe that's that's in the pocket now.
(25:32):
I'm so stoked for that. Andlet's and let's remember this is Japan.
This is a country whose prime ministerhad to come over here and lecture our
Republican party about funding Ukraine. Youknow, maybe they deserve a steel company
for that. I just want tosay, Greg, when you become a
president or a prime minister, you'vejust said the word that will for history
(25:59):
be a social excuse me, theline that will for history be associated with
your name. Oh it's a greatline. Is it's not the line in
the sand on the top of ahill that we should die on. That
Like, that was w a level. Switching topics, we are seeing an
(26:23):
uptick in campus unrest and I'm actuallyhaving the vibe feels a little vietnammey to
me that. You know, youngpeople have a lot to say and a
lot of strong feelings. Is thata good thing or a bad thing?
Well, that's that's what we're aboutto discuss here. We're seeing students at
multiple universities that are standing in solidaritywith a pro Palestinian encampment on the Columbia
(26:47):
University campus. We've also seen astudent be expelled from a school for a
racist rant on TikTok actually and uhand uh student this one like, actually,
this doesn't mean this isn't even atopic of discussion. It's it's just
like a data point. Kyle Rittenhousespoke on the Kent State campus. Man
(27:07):
who shot people at a protest spokeon a campus where people were shot at
a protest. His reception was whatyou'd expect, just right. But but
but he's he's on a college tour, yes, because he's with Turning Point
Toilet Paper USA TP USA. It'sa different college tour. He's trying to
decide what college to go to.None of them. It's just it's just
(27:36):
come out that on his aptitude testwhen he tried to join the Marine Corps,
he scored so poorly that he ispermanently banned from ever applying again.
So he's as dumb as a boxof rocks, and every campus knows it.
So setting Kyle aside, the studentswho've actually been accepted to universities,
have strong feelings about what's going onin the world, and is this the
First Amendment issue? Is this universityadministration issue? It's both, it's both
(28:00):
yeah, and like how far caneach go? That's sort of the where's
the line. So we live ina country that, unfortunately not unfortunately fortunately,
we have the First Amendment. Wehave free speech, and that means
that we're going to have to hearspeech that we don't like. And it's
happened time and time again. Weused to have Nazis marching through the streets
(28:22):
of Chicago. We had Charlottesville,which had some pretty horrible chants and some
pretty horrible signs. Now we havethese pro Palestinian people that make my blood
boil. But I also understand theyhave a right to voice their opinions.
On the other hand, hate speechis hate speech, and there's nothing stopping
(28:44):
a university from having a campus codethat prohibits hate speech, and they can
have students removed for violating that code. So the encampments, the protests,
I don't like them. Remember whenColumbia had anti war protests in the nineteen
seventies. My cousin was going toColumbia when they famously had broke into the
(29:07):
president's office to have a sit in. My dad went into it for about
three seconds and then realized he wasgoing to get expelled from med school and
left. Yeah, he decided itwas not worth it. Yeah, unlike
the January six ers, we dohave to honor and respect the right of
freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to protest. But hate speech
(29:29):
is a different crime, and Idon't understand why they can't both be enforced.
Well, I think they can beenforced, but it's the question that
I think there's some subtleties of whatconstitutes hate speech. And everybody's got a
personal lens through which they view thatquestion. And so one person looking at
the encampment at Columbia is like,it's just students stating in opinion. But
(29:53):
other people are like, the wordswith which they are stating the opinion hurt
me so badly that it feels likehates speech. And who do you side
with? Because both sides feelings arevalid. The other thing to remember is
Columbia University, as a private university, has a bit more leeway on this
than say, the University of Californiaat Berkeley, which is a public university,
(30:15):
government funded university. They have theyhave frankly different rules or things they
can't do that private university can do. But when the situation is bad enough
that the rabbi, who is effectivelya chaplain for Columbia tells Jewish students stay
(30:36):
away, it is not safe.You're doing it wrong, that's it.
That's the comment. Yeah, andI mean and that's yeah, that becomes
the comment, is you know,has your speech crossed a line into action
that is not protected and is endangeringthe safety of others. Yeah, when
(30:56):
you're saying things like kill Jews orspeaking directly to individuals and threatening them,
that is not free speech anymore.That is you know, that's incitement to
violence or it's incitement to violence.Yeah. And so I agree with what
DJ said. I agree with whatRebecca said. I think there's a world
where both can coexist. It's notsimple, and yet we have to do
(31:18):
the hard thing and make sure thatas much as I disagree with the pro
Palestinian point of view and the antiIsrael point of view, I do have
to honor their right to express it. That's the quote. I do not
agree with what you say, butI will fight to the death for your
right to say it. May Imay make one request, though, can
(31:38):
we stop calling these people pro Palestinian? Yeah, and that's what they're getting
right. They care about the averagegosm. I agree, I agree.
If you want to talk, ifyou want to read a statement from somebody
who does care about the average cosm. Jamie Raskin just put out a statement
on the foreign aid bills and hisposition on Israel and the Yahoo goover and
(32:00):
the need for protecting the civilians inGaza that is eloquent and thoughtful and wise
because Jamie Ruskin is all of thosethings and he puts it into words beautifully.
Yeah, and I know we're notgoing to go down not the rabbit
hole, but we're not going togo too deep into Israel this week.
But there's one thought that I hadthis week. You know, there are
(32:22):
still bombings going on, there arestill raids going on from the air.
And then, frankly, I thinkthe Israelis have to modify their military tactics
at this point. But a lotof people think it's all Net and Yahoo
and that once Net Yahoo is nolonger in office and probably Benny Gans is
his successor. They think that somehowthings are going to get better. Benny
(32:45):
Gons is very much as right wing, maybe more right wing, and more
hawkish than net Yahoo. And ifpeople think that simply getting rid of net
and Yahoo is going to fix thisproblem, they are sadly, sadly mistaken.
Yeah, Israeli collisions are weird.But doesn't Gon support a two state
solution? That would be an improvementover BB, who clearly does not.
(33:06):
You know if he does, andI don't know the answer to that.
If he does, that would bean improvement. But I'm just saying in
terms of the war against mus heis extremely hawkish, and frankly, I
agree with a lot of the hawkishviews. I'm just saying that if people
think that it's just BB Netanyahu unilaterallymaking these decisions, they do not understand
Israeli politics. Right When, ifand when Gons takes over for Netanya,
(33:31):
who the war will continue against Amas? I do think it will be something
where Gons will pay a little moreattention to Palestinian civilians than BIB will.
But if Beny Gons is not goingto go for a ceasefire, and he
shouldn't, and again, DJ,you know, you know, foreign policy
so much better than me, andI defer to that. I'm just going
(33:52):
to say, from my reading andmy understanding, I think you and I
have a difference of opinion. Youknow where Benny Gonsol would be in terms
of prosecuting that war. We shouldcall Benny gounce. He could be our
guest next week. Oh yeah,he's booked. Speaking of guests, here's
another thing I'm going off topic.We have talked about RFK Junior on this
(34:15):
show. Bill Maher is having himon next week, and it's just going
to give this man a platform toreach another five or ten million liberals who
will be fooled by his BS nowhe is so he is such a piece
of shit. I just read that, like a whole bunch of people from
the environmental movement are asking him todrop out because they know that he's just
(34:36):
you know, he's a spoiler forTrump. And you know, Biden just
tossed down a whole bunch of environmentalprotections that benefit the Alaskan wildlife preserves,
and Trump will undo that in aheartbeat if RFK messes things up for him
in Michigan, messes and keeper Biden. And yet there is an and yet
there is an NBC Paul out todaythat shows nationally Donald Trumps ahead two points
(34:58):
in a two person rais, butwhen it's a five person race, including
RFK Junior, it flips to aBiden two point lead. So there's a
five person race, Kennedy, Yeah, because yes, I know, we
forget about those. But the pointis, there's no guarantee yet that our
(35:20):
FK Junior is going to do moreharm to Joe Biden than to Donald Trump.
It could happen. I'm not goingto say it won't happen, but
I'm not definitely saying it will happen. And I do think there are things
that Joe Biden can do to makesure it doesn't happen, but that'll extend
the show another hour, and wedon't want to do that, so I'll
stop, and I'm going to saythat I think you know as much DJ
as I would like to believe thePollier citing is the beginning of a trend
(35:44):
that is the beginning of the endfor RFK JR. I am choosing to
believe that r FK Junior is aproblem, and as Democrats, we should
address it by either calling out hiscrap on really thoughtful, interesting podcasts like
this one here or on social media, and you know, we all need
to be doing what we can tocontribute to the voter turnout efforts that we
(36:07):
need for November. And if thatmeans phone banking, text banking, uprooting
your life and go into a swingstate, you can stay in Greg's couch
if you need to. Ohio isnot a swing state anymore. I concur
with Rebecca completely. We need tomake sure everyone understands Robert F. K.
Junior is the exact kind of guythat Marjorie Taylor Green would cheat on
her husband with, ew wow ewand speaking of Republican politics, that was
(36:34):
gross. Well, all right,so palate cleanser. Tomorrow is Monday.
It will be April twenty second,and it will be the day that the
trial of Donald Trump versus the Stateof New York truly begins his criminal trial.
The jury has been impaneled, theyhave been sworn in. Trump stayed
(36:59):
awake for some of it. He'saware. I believe that it all happened.
He's not happy about it. Andopening statements will be happening on Monday.
Now we obviously we won't get tosee the opening statements. We won't
get to hear them live. ButI thought, as a fun thought exercise,
if you could cast a famous actorto deliver opening statements for the prosecution
(37:23):
of Donald Trump, who would youchoose? And I'm gonna start with Greg
because I feel like he knows acting. Oh, I'm sorry, I was
doom scrolling. Sorry. Now,look, I have two just because I
think they're great and they could doanything. One, of course, the
immortal al Pacino, because if hejust gets out there and just says random
(37:45):
things like wha, yeah, he'ssort of terrifying. He's terrifying, you're
out of order. I mean,just well yeah, but he should be
the defense attorney. He should bethe celebrity defense attorney. I know,
well he oh is this for prosecution? It could be both could I would
say I would definitely want him onTrump's side saying well, I've heard a
(38:07):
lot of horse but that would beawesome just to have him do that throughout
and just Austin the other one wouldbe the exact opposite but still incredible act,
Christopher Walking. Yah Ana I II I see the spot. No,
I I You're on. I justjust agree. Now, that could
(38:29):
be Christopher Walking or Jimmy Stewart dependingon how bad. Greg, Greg,
I want you to know you justfulfilled my dream for this segment. When
I said this, I was reallyhoping somebody would pick Christopher Walking, and
you came through for me. Icould count on you, Greg every single
time. DJ, who do youwant to see as your celebrity lawyer for
(38:52):
the for the prosecution? Robert Duvall. Okay, I still think he played
the best lawyer I for seen TomMegan and for the defense, Peter Cook,
particularly in his role as the Clergymanand the Princess Bride, because I
want him to say that it wasall about protecting Donald Twomp's mawage. The
(39:19):
name of that role in The PrincessBride was the impressive Clergyman. That's what
it is in the credits, Kevin, who are you thinking? Well?
First of all, Greg said theperson that I was gonna say for the
defense for the prosecution. You know, I tried thinking through my head because
I love courtroom dramas. I can'treally think of a movie where there was
(39:44):
a great prosecuting attorney performance. I'msure it exists, but I couldn't off
the top of my head come upwith it. So I have to borrow
from great defense lawyers and films,and I've got two, okay, So
for the prosecution, I would eitherlike Paul Newman from The Verse or Spencer
Tracy from Inherit the Wind. Okay, And of course there's always Atticus Finch.
(40:07):
But those are my those are mythree favorite courtroom lawyers from movies.
See, now, I was,you know, my first thought was,
you know, who do you wantup there just to like, you know,
just bedazzle luxury. And my firstthought was chero, you know,
just share and head to toe BobMackie strutting around the courtroom telling the jury
(40:30):
everything that's wrong with Donald Trump.And I'm thinking specifically of that monologue she
did in the Witches of Eastwick whereshe told Jack Nicholson everything that was wrong
with him, and the last lineis and also you smell that that would
be perfect. That's a little tooon point, though, yeah, but
maybe maybe nothing is too on pointthese days. And then my my my
(40:51):
other thought was Sir Anthony Hopkins inhis most Hannibal lecter mode to just you
know, scare the ship out ofeveryone. Wait, I want to I
want to amend mine. Literally,I was thinking of of people that.
Okay, I was just thinking goaround. I'll give you if you need
(41:15):
time. I thought of one likeI would like to see Peter Lowry from
the Old Fills, or he'd belike yes, yes, as a defense
oh big, you know, andjust that would be my favorite. Or
Molly Shannon is the superstar. Yeah, I have a co prosecution team.
I would like John Stewart and SamKinnison oh yeah, okay yeah, and
(41:42):
for the defense Gilbert Gottfried. YeahSam, I mean seriously, Sam Kinison
versus Gilbert Gottfried as lawyers. Ican't why did we not think of that
when they were both still walking thisearth? And we could have written a
screenplay. So if anybody wants tosomehow resurrected two of them, we have
a we have an idea for them. You know, the prosecutor who could
(42:05):
come up with the best closing statementfor that his prosecutor gets to close at
the end, Stephen Wright, hecould be basically put read dons defence and
just look at the jury like seriously, yeah you believe a real dry Also,
who'd be good? Who would havebeen good with that? Mitch Hedburg.
(42:27):
Ye, remember Mitch Hedburg. I'llgo I'll go on. I think
it should be John Lovett. Inhis past, he's a defense attorney,
beautiful wife, Morgan Fairchild. Buteverybody might tell us small fib Yeah,
(42:51):
that's the ticket Love. It's couldwork for the prosecution too, because he
was He was the actor that onSNL who played Michael Lucaccus when he said
I can't believe I'm losing to thisguy. Yes, one of the great
debate sketches of all time. Yes, I was thinking of love. It's
in the wedding singer either the scenewhere he's like he's totally lost his mind
(43:12):
talking about Adam Sandler. All right, Well, now that we have gone
down memory lane for movies and actorspast and who we think would give an
Oscar winning performance in court, I'dlike to thank all of you for listening
and going on this journey with ustonight. If you enjoy what we do
here, please follow us on Instagramat MPU fan Club, and don't forget
to share our podcast on all yoursocial media feeds, including TikTok while you
(43:37):
still have it is that way yourfriends can discover us as well. We
do have a substack blog page,and I promise I'm going to add something
to it this week that is blockedout on my calendar, and so we'll
be having opinions, essays, andrandom thoughts between shows, so you can
look for us there. And asalways, thank you to Alan Keny for
(43:59):
our theme music. And we alsowant to mention that on our Instagram page
at MPU Fan Club. We've justposted a new set of photos, Rebecca,
why did you tell everybody what theyare? All? Right? So
on Tuesday, Stephen Miller, whoI described in the photos as a botched
necromancy project, stated his opinion DonaldTrump is the most stylish president ever and
(44:22):
that everybody has been trying to dresslike him. And my thought was,
he wears blue suits, nothing else. He's never warn anything that I've seen
except for a blue suit. SoI decided to start an ongoing thread on
Twitter called Courtroom Couture, where Ianalyzed Donald Trump's outfits, his hair,
his skincare. I've taken note ofhis cuff links. I called for congressional
(44:45):
hearings into why he didn't wear aflag pin on the second day of the
trial. So I have shared screenshotsof that for your enjoyment. I will
be continuing this on Twitter. I'vebeen reading up on men'swear, so I
should have some really truncheon thoughts ontailoring soon. There you go, hm
(45:09):
and uh. And so, guys, what are you going to be looking
forward to this week besides the ongoingTrump trials and the Senate signing some foreign
aid bills. I have a I'vejust started a GoFundMe page to Saint Christopher
walking to law school. I figureby the time he's out, Trump will
(45:30):
still be on trial for something,so we will eventually get to hear y'all.
Anah, that's my goal, That'sall I want. And I'd just
like to add that on Friday,I'll be at my mom's birthday unless Donald
Trump is testifying, in which case, fuck you, mom, I'm watching
Donald Trump out
Welcome to The More Perfect Union,the podcast that offers real debate without the
hate. I'm Rebecca Kushmeider, comingoff a frantic weekend of driving way too
many places, and i am joinedhere on the mic by Greg Matuzak,
your common sense liberal who from Cincinnati, Ohio, who's very glad this is
(00:36):
the first week I was very gladnot to be in the courtroom with Donald
Trump from what all the reports havesaid or smell, I mean, I
think masking is about to come backinto fashion parts of Manhattan, but maybe
safety basking. DJ McGuire, whohas had a wonderful weekend watching the House
(00:59):
pass Ukraine funding it last. Yeah, Nix and the Knicks and Rangers won.
It's been a great weekend. Ididn't know you were a Rangers fan.
How did you absolutely all the kidsin school with General's fans because of
New Jersey and I hated all thekids in school, so with the Rangers.
Okay, valid, totally valid,And last but not least, Kevin
(01:19):
Calton in his Rangers jersey in mynumber seven, Roger'll bear Rangers jersey.
You know I lived and died bythe New York Rangers in the late sixties
and early nineteen seventies, and thenI became an Islanders fan in the late
seventies and early eighties. Yeah,were you a Rangers fan out of spite
and revenge? Or was it likegenuine self loathing? Like most Rangers fan
(01:42):
there has to be like a storyof anger and ah oh yeah, many
many of years of that. Backthen there there weren't devils, and there
weren't Islanders for a while. Sothe Rangers are the only game in town
as bad as they were, Yes, but yeah, I might revenge why
people get into hockey in the firstplace. Yes, Yes, indeed the
(02:04):
night they won the Stanley Cup innineteen four was the night. It was
the night I told I told mymom that I was going to marry my
first wife, and I was farhappier that the Rangers had won, and
I probably could take that step.We were divorced within a year. But
yes, I am a proud Rangersfan. But I'm even more proud of
(02:24):
what I'm about to tell you.I will be traveling this week to Florida
for a big event. My mom, if she makes it another five days,
will be one hundred and three yearsold on Friday, oh my mozle
tough Kevin. That's wonderful. Andduring Passover, no less thanks. I
didn't do it, she did it. That's that's great. And to get
(02:46):
to spend part of Passover with her. I hope you've got your grandmother's chop
liver recipe. I actually have apretty good chop livery recipe. But now
we're going out for dinner, soI won't be cooking, probably for the
best. Yeah, not that you'renot that disparage in you're cooking. I'm
just saying it's a hassle. No, you should disparage my cooking. I've
never eaten your cooking, so Icannot comment on the health and safety issues
(03:10):
that arise from when Kevin enters thekitchen. Speaking of things that have been
cooking. Congress actually got to dosome work this week. They passed some
legislation to force TikTok's China based ownerto sell the company. This week.
The bill was part of a largerforeign a package to this tease it up
for actual immediate sent consideration. Andso you know, one of the main
(03:34):
reasons that this is being the TikTok'sbeing challenged is because of user data and
who gets their hands on it.And user data, as we all know,
is a global commodity. Personal datais one of the most valuable commodities.
And it begs the question why isCongress more upset when China has access
to user data than when anyone elselike Mark Zuckerberger, Elon Musk or the
(03:58):
US government has acts And Kevin,I'm going to throw this to you.
You can tell me why you thinkCongress is upset about this. I have
to tell you. I have noidea. You know, I'm one of
those people. I tend to trustthe US government. Now, sometimes that
trust has been badly misplaced. Butwhen when they tell us that something is
(04:18):
a national security risk, I tendto believe that because it's sort of like
you know, with COVID, Itrust the experts, I trust the scientists.
In this case, I trust ourintelligence agencies. I have no idea
why it's a risk, and frankly, I wish that they would share that
with us. Yeah. So,I actually one of my bad habits that
(04:42):
I've acquired, probably in the pastyear, is doom scrolling. Yeah.
Do you guys know what doom scrollingis? Yes, we're all there,
all right, And I get,well, that's bad for kids, and
that's bad for adults. But you'reright, Kevin says that they say,
hey, this is bad, andI would I'm completely on Kevin's side with
(05:03):
that, But in this instance,they keep saying, this is so bad
we can't show you. Well,we're all adults in the room. How
bad could it be? I mean, when we went through the COVID thing,
they said this is bad, We'regoing to show you the formulas.
How bad could it really be thatthey can't show us unless there's money involved?
(05:24):
And then in which case, yeah, they're crooked. Well, there's
certainly money involved. But what isthe data that TikTok is collecting? Is
it location data? Is it spendingdata? And why is that dangerous for
the Chinese government to have? AndI don't fully understand, DJ. Do
you have any insight into that?No, I don't, because, frankly,
the user data argument was never theargument that actually won the day.
(05:46):
It's not the reason that it gotthrough the house. The reason it got
through the house the first time andhow the second time again is because TikTok
has basically been an open sewer ofmisinformation on Ukraine, on Taiwan and on
the Israel Hamas war, particularly theIsrael Hamas war. And when the first
(06:06):
piece of legislation passed saying look,Bite Dance needs to sell this in six
months or else it will be offour platforms. Bite Dance's response was to
tell all of its TikTok users thisbill has passed, lie about it and
tell them to basically call every memberof Congress and a screaming fury about a
(06:26):
bill that was not actually what waspassed. This one actually gives more time
for a deal. It gets abouta year instead of six months, so
that's more helpful. And it's justwhen Zuckerberg comes in and he says,
look, you've got too much misinformationon your stuff. You can argue back
and forth of them. They cantry to do something, but you know
win, I mean, Elon Muskis Elon Musk. But when you have
(06:49):
a hostile regime owning a social mediaplatform that is spewing disinformation in your country,
you do something about it. Andthat's what this is about. It's
not about the user data. Well, I'd be curious what the numbers actually
are on misinformation across metas platforms andacross TikTok, versus Twitter, versus truth,
(07:12):
social YouTube, rumble, all ofthem. Kevin, what were you
going to say? Well, Ithink this falls into the category of possibly
cyber war or cyber events. Andyou know, when I was younger and
we were just entering the nuclear confrontationage the Cold War, the government,
to the extent that I understood it, shared with us the potential dangers of
(07:36):
a nuclear conflict. I don't,Again, going back to my original point,
I wish the government would explain tous what the danger is of China
having all of this information. I'mnot sure that I fully agree with DJ's
analysis that it's more about misinformation.I think it is about data or some
(08:00):
other element of information that would impangeon our national security, and I think
that they should share that information withus so we can understand the problem and
therefore as a country we can dealwith it. Well. I think all
of these points that we're making getsto the fact that TikTok, like other
social media platforms, particularly the onesthat are sort of this short content that
(08:22):
kind of you know, are theentry point to a rabbit hole, they
have become crucial to the flow ofinformation. They're absolutely crucial. We all
use them, whether it's TikTok orInstagram or you know these other byte sized
platforms where we get, you know, a couple minutes of something and it
begins to form the kernel of anopinion. You know, there are downsides,
as we're saying here the misinformation problem, but they are also upsides,
(08:46):
and there's an economy there. Peopleare making their livings off of TikTok,
and I think that's wonderful. Ithink that's what their content creators. I
want to piggyback what Kevin said.I really don't want the government to share
any of the technology or the datawith me, but I want them to
share it with my fourteen year oldchild slowly explain it to me, Well,
(09:07):
yeah, you could, you know. And speaking of the fourteen year
old child, greg I was Iwas thinking about this earlier today. My
son was interested in a summer sportsprogram and I asked him for more information.
And if you go back to ourdays in high school, we would
have come home with a flyer andhanded it to our parents, and twenty
years ago it would have been awebsite that you know, your kid would
(09:28):
have given you the link to lookit all up. Mike had hand me
his phone with the Instagram account ofthe sports program pulled up, and I
could use that to start it.And there's you know, these platforms have
actually become the infrastructure for advertising,you know, brick and mortar programs like
this, you know, And andit's visually appealing, it's easy to get
(09:54):
the right information across quickly, it'seasy to bookmark. And so when I
see government starting to mess with that, I get very uncomfortable because it does
feel like it is going to compromiseparts of the economy, not just content
creators, but everybody else too.Let me ask you guys something. Uh,
(10:15):
you guys apparently followed TikTok probably alot more than I do. Who
is your favorite TikToker? Oh?I've got a good one right now.
My favorite TikToker is doctopus. It'sthis family in Oklahoma that adopted an octopus
for their eight year old who's abig fan of octopi, and the octopus,
unbeknownst to them, had been fertilizedand impregnated before they got her,
(10:37):
and she laid fifty eggs in likeeight detO twenty. Some of these little
tiny pity Octopi survived and so nowthey're they're documenting this experience of trying to
keep these these little tiny creatures aliveand find appropriate homes for them in aquarium.
So doctopus is my favorite TikToker?What about you, Greg? There's
a he's on Instagram and TikTok calledTizzy. Oh love Tizzy. I got
(11:01):
a Tizzy retweet once. Don't youreally that'll that'll get your numbers up respect.
So Tizzy is someone if there isa uh it wasn't you always just
like my grandmother, you always gowith dick and fark jokes. But he's
someone who, uh, if there'san issue with justice or racism, he
(11:24):
brings it too many people's attention.He tries to find culprits. He does
very responsible. Once he finds theiridentity, he turns it over to the
police, but he asks his followersto help, uh, you know,
be a better place when he seesinjustices everything from like missing children to uh
like Karen who's pissed off that hersuper's coat cold and said so, or
(11:46):
like the recent Indiana student Asa Blaton. Yeah, and DJ, do you
have a favorite TikToker? You looklike you're looking up a Tiktoker's name.
No, I am actually not onTikTok, so I cannot answer that question.
However, hearing Rebecca's answer, Inow understand why Alan Tudik's character in
Resident Alien chose not to destroy theplanet Earth for the baby Octopi. It
(12:07):
makes perfect sense now, speaking ofthings that are getting destroyed or falling apart
or getting built. We've been makingjokes about Infrastructure Week for quite a few
years now, and it's big becomea punchline. But actually the state of
our infrastructure is not funny. Youknow, the Port of Baltimore is currently
on restricted use because of bridge felldown when a when a ship bumped into
(12:31):
it. And you know, arewe falling apart as a country? Are
we also falling behind by not investingin the next level of things? We
were talking earlier today about some highspeed rail projects and you know, there
are a bunch on the agenda,but are they actually going to take off
or I guess leave, leave theleave the station. What's the analogy there,
(12:58):
Kevin, you were the one whobrought it up, you know what
you were talking about? One fromLa to Vegas? Yeah, well you
know, I obviously everybody knows.I used to live in Los Angeles and
they've been talking about a ligne twoparticular projects, one from LA to San
Francisco and another one from LA toLas Vegas. And I was so in
(13:20):
favor of both of those because ifyou live on the West Coast, you're
constantly you know, you want togo to Vegas and you don't want to
drive the five and a half hoursfrom LA. You want to go to
San Francisco. It's the same thing. But even though these projects were a
go, and in my understanding they'reactually being built, the price has just
always kept skyrocketing. It would gofrom six billion to thirteen billion, and
(13:43):
pretty soon it was thirty billion dollars. I don't understand why this country cannot
develop high speed rail, and Ithink it is emblematic of a bigger problem.
I hope we can get on topof it, because in the twenty
first century we will be left bymind if we cannot keep up with these
kinds of technological developments, you know, and I think some of it may
(14:07):
actually be a problem with on thedemand side of things. You know,
are we just so attached to ourcars that we don't want to invest in
anything but cars. DJ you knowthis, this economics is kind of on
your your resume. Well, I'ma little confused because I thought the La
(14:28):
to San Francisco line sort of fellapart in a scandal when the city manager
of Vinci was murdered and oh,no way, that was HBS Trewe detective.
Never mind, there, I know, it's like, this sounds good,
he wrote his story. I there. Now. I think one of
(14:48):
the biggest problems that we and NoahSmith, who's an economists on sub stack
and on the other social media stuff, he talks about this constantly, is
that we have gone we are nowexcuse me. Every infrastructure project has to
go through so many permit processes andpermit cycles that it is much more difficult
(15:11):
to build something today than it wassixty, fifty or even thirty years ago.
And Congress did try to make thiseasier in twenty twenty two. Was
supposed to be part of the Mansionversion of the Inflation Reduction Act, and
it got dropped because the far leftsaid, no, we will not accept
this. But I really think weneed to take a good hard look at
(15:35):
our permit process, a good hardlook at all of the things that get
in the way of building stuff andcut it back and say we don't need
to do this anymore. I mean, those permit processes, some of those
are local in state, so it'snot just a federal problem. You know,
we need Pete Buddha Judge or somebodyto call for, you know,
(15:56):
a big review of permitting processes forinfrastructure projects to you know, see how
we can cut the time on those, cut the red tape. One question
I have to this is a technicalquestion. You guys may not even know.
Can a high speed rail use thesame tracks that already exist. I'll
call my fourteen year old telling youmaybe we just need fourteen year olds doing
(16:18):
this show for us, because ohmy goodness, talk and the trick track
and the train speeds and all ofthat. The actual answer is pure high
speed rail. No, it needsa separate kind of track. But there
is one and I'm forgetting the name, but it was in the article that
we read today, and I forgetwhich two cities it was going between,
(16:41):
but there is one that goes aboutone hundred and sixty miles an hour.
It's not technically what we call highspeed rail, but it's much faster than
contemporary modern trains, and it canuse the existing track with some modernization.
Because there's like the Ascella line thatyou know goes up and down the north
that might be it. Yeah,one's faster, but it's I think part
(17:02):
of the reason is that it's amore express train too. It doesn't stop
as many times as that like theNortheast. I can really get gone and
it costs a freaking fortune. Also, Thomas, the tank engine I think
needs to become high speed. Uhyeah, no, we'll put on a
high protein diet. We'll get it. Like even going keto and do sprints
(17:22):
every day with their top of hat. That's that's the way to do that,
you know. Speaking of wags toeven build train tracks, Biden wants
to stop us from buying nip On. We want to stop nip On Steel
from buying us steel and triple Chinesesteel tariffs, which I assume you need
(17:44):
steel to build train tracks. Idon't actually know. I've I've used leg
I've used I've used Legos for thatin the past. As our listeners might
be able to imagine, Rebecca isbasically reading this for the first time because
I put this in the rundown twohours ago. That's what I always gonna
say. DJ I was gonna saythat just tripped right off your tongue.
Yeah, this one is mine.Uh. And you know, Joe Biden
(18:08):
is one of the last politicians fromthe Japan scare of the late nineteen eighties,
when Japanese investment in the United Stateswas completely off the charts. They
bought the Rockefeller Center, they boughtthis, that, and the other.
Everyone was freaking out. Then wehad a recession, Japan's real estate bubble
burst, and the next thing Iknow, they were selling it back to
US at like bargain basement prices andsuch. And they just wanted like a
(18:33):
place to stay when they came toNew York too. It wasn't even it
wasn't like malicious investment in anyway.Carry on. They wanted some golf courses
that they could use. It's fine, But I do not understand why we
are so worried about an ally,and Japan has been an ally for seventy
odd years buying a steel company.We really can't fall for this, non
(18:56):
for the Trump nonsense of well,if you can't make stew you're not a
real country. All sorts of countriesthat choose to import their steel. It's
okay, now I can sympathize withwanting to make sure we don't buy Chinese
steel. But the best way tohave fixed that instead of raising prices on
businesses and consumers, well, businessesconsume steel, individuals don't, was to
(19:21):
join the trans specific partnership so thatwe would lower tariffs with our allies.
That's the more cost efficient way todo that. Joe Biden isn't going to
do that because unfortunately, no oneis willing to say that they support free
your trade anymore because it's supposedly notpopular. But that will change as the
cycles change, and I'll just haveto sit back and wait for it.
(19:41):
Well, I have a question aboutUS Steele. How many steel companies do
we actually have operational in America?Today? Is this you know, selling
the last one? Now? Ithink they're roughly I want to say they're
roughly a dozen, some that aresmaller than you at well, they're probably
all smaller than you steal honestly.And is the consolidation? Is any of
(20:03):
this in response to the inability toget steel out of black seaports because of
the Ukraine War I mean, arethese companies all sort of moving around trying
to, you know, maximize opportunity, you know, while Russia is messing
stuff up. I don't. I'mgoing to say I don't think so.
And the reason I'm going to I'mgoing to jump in on this is because
(20:26):
I follow the British press as well, and some of their large steel companies
are looking to be bought up byeither Indian or Japanese consortiums. And that
was before the before the Second UkraineWar fun as i'll call it, started,
So I don't think that's the reason. So it's just the sort of
normal shuffling of major commodities companies.Well, I see it. Yeah,
(20:49):
I don't. I don't have ananswer for you, Kevin Might Well,
uh, you know, I knowthat that DJ is a free trade proponent,
and I definite respect that there's acouple of I read two articles today,
one in favor of the steel andone against it. Frankly, both
sides make some great arguments, butfor me it comes down to, first
(21:14):
of all, the steel union orthe union that represents the steel workers,
is strongly against it. And Ialways err on the side of a union
like that when it's for economic reasons, and there's also just a question.
But you know, US Steel isone of the great American logos. It's
an iconic American company. And fora company named US Steel to be owned
(21:38):
by the Japanese. Now, Iknow that there are other American and I
say that near quotes companies that areowned by companies outside of the United States.
But for US Steel to be ownedby the Japanese, it does raise
some national security I mean, justthink if there was some kind of international
(21:59):
conflict, we had to manufacture airplanes, ships, other defense materials very quickly
and a foreign nation decided to slowdown or squeeze US for whatever political reason.
That is a national security issue.But the other thing I wanted to
bring up is the history of USSteel. Now I'm just slightly, I
(22:23):
think, weeks or months older thanyou guys, but I'm old enough to
remember when John F. Kennedy stoodup and DJ, I know you probably
know about this too, stood upto US Steel and I did some research
on this today. In nineteen sixtytwo, US Steel got into a labor
dispute with its union, and theKennedy administration mediated to help come to an
(22:48):
agreement. That ended in a newcontract, and it had a modest increase
in pay for union workers. Afew weeks later, Steal surprised the Kennedy
administration by announcing a big price increasein their products, and John F.
Kennedy was livid, and he wenton television during a presidential press conference,
(23:14):
and he took on us Steal ina way that we have not heard presidents
take on private enterprise quite frankly,maybe since Reagan fired the air traffic controllers.
I actually posted a clip from thatpress conference on the mpupodcast dot com
web page if anyone wants to hearit. When you hear John Kennedy in
(23:37):
this press conference, you will weepfor the type of presidents that we long
for and haven't seen with the exceptionof Barack Obama. It is a magnificent
performance, and I suggest that peoplego listen to it just to hear what
a real president sounds like. Butwith that in mind, Kennedy stood up
(23:59):
to you US Steel. Then JoeBiden is standing up to the company that
wants to buy US steel, andI think they were both correct. Look
to kind of keep to kind ofkeep this in perspective, though America is
still like the third largest producer steelin the world. That's not going to
change. So if there is anissue, and US Steel is is not
(24:21):
the largest steel company in America evenat this point, it's the second largest,
so I stay corrected. Oh that'sall right. I don't know if
you know this. I had tolook it up. You don't. You
don't have a list of top tensteel. Nobody's just in your what Greg?
I feel like I've been deceived.It is new core though. This
is why I've been quiet for solong. Is that well doom steel scrolling.
(24:48):
So I don't think it's the skyis falling as and I don't think
it's the affront on democracy. Andwe are still talking. These are industrial
steel companies. There's also the ministeel, which produces fifty nine percent.
And these are specialty steel companies whichare much smaller. There's well over one
hundred of them, and they producefifty nine percent of all American steel.
(25:11):
So there's lots of steel companies inAmerica. And I see this might be
a line in the sand, butit's not the line in the sand on
the hill we should die on.I think it's gonna be really fun tomorrow
at breakfast, Greg, when yourfourteen year old tries to tell you something
and you're like, oh yeah,and you give give them a lecture on
steel. I know I'm going tobe that's that's in the pocket now.
(25:32):
I'm so stoked for that. Andlet's and let's remember this is Japan.
This is a country whose prime ministerhad to come over here and lecture our
Republican party about funding Ukraine. Youknow, maybe they deserve a steel company
for that. I just want tosay, Greg, when you become a
president or a prime minister, you'vejust said the word that will for history
(25:59):
be a social excuse me, theline that will for history be associated with
your name. Oh it's a greatline. Is it's not the line in
the sand on the top of ahill that we should die on. That
Like, that was w a level. Switching topics, we are seeing an
(26:23):
uptick in campus unrest and I'm actuallyhaving the vibe feels a little vietnammey to
me that. You know, youngpeople have a lot to say and a
lot of strong feelings. Is thata good thing or a bad thing?
Well, that's that's what we're aboutto discuss here. We're seeing students at
multiple universities that are standing in solidaritywith a pro Palestinian encampment on the Columbia
(26:47):
University campus. We've also seen astudent be expelled from a school for a
racist rant on TikTok actually and uhand uh student this one like, actually,
this doesn't mean this isn't even atopic of discussion. It's it's just
like a data point. Kyle Rittenhousespoke on the Kent State campus. Man
(27:07):
who shot people at a protest spokeon a campus where people were shot at
a protest. His reception was whatyou'd expect, just right. But but
but he's he's on a college tour, yes, because he's with Turning Point
Toilet Paper USA TP USA. It'sa different college tour. He's trying to
decide what college to go to.None of them. It's just it's just
(27:36):
come out that on his aptitude testwhen he tried to join the Marine Corps,
he scored so poorly that he ispermanently banned from ever applying again.
So he's as dumb as a boxof rocks, and every campus knows it.
So setting Kyle aside, the studentswho've actually been accepted to universities,
have strong feelings about what's going onin the world, and is this the
First Amendment issue? Is this universityadministration issue? It's both, it's both
(28:00):
yeah, and like how far caneach go? That's sort of the where's
the line. So we live ina country that, unfortunately not unfortunately fortunately,
we have the First Amendment. Wehave free speech, and that means
that we're going to have to hearspeech that we don't like. And it's
happened time and time again. Weused to have Nazis marching through the streets
(28:22):
of Chicago. We had Charlottesville,which had some pretty horrible chants and some
pretty horrible signs. Now we havethese pro Palestinian people that make my blood
boil. But I also understand theyhave a right to voice their opinions.
On the other hand, hate speechis hate speech, and there's nothing stopping
(28:44):
a university from having a campus codethat prohibits hate speech, and they can
have students removed for violating that code. So the encampments, the protests,
I don't like them. Remember whenColumbia had anti war protests in the nineteen
seventies. My cousin was going toColumbia when they famously had broke into the
(29:07):
president's office to have a sit in. My dad went into it for about
three seconds and then realized he wasgoing to get expelled from med school and
left. Yeah, he decided itwas not worth it. Yeah, unlike
the January six ers, we dohave to honor and respect the right of
freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to protest. But hate speech
(29:29):
is a different crime, and Idon't understand why they can't both be enforced.
Well, I think they can beenforced, but it's the question that
I think there's some subtleties of whatconstitutes hate speech. And everybody's got a
personal lens through which they view thatquestion. And so one person looking at
the encampment at Columbia is like,it's just students stating in opinion. But
(29:53):
other people are like, the wordswith which they are stating the opinion hurt
me so badly that it feels likehates speech. And who do you side
with? Because both sides feelings arevalid. The other thing to remember is
Columbia University, as a private university, has a bit more leeway on this
than say, the University of Californiaat Berkeley, which is a public university,
(30:15):
government funded university. They have theyhave frankly different rules or things they
can't do that private university can do. But when the situation is bad enough
that the rabbi, who is effectivelya chaplain for Columbia tells Jewish students stay
(30:36):
away, it is not safe.You're doing it wrong, that's it.
That's the comment. Yeah, andI mean and that's yeah, that becomes
the comment, is you know,has your speech crossed a line into action
that is not protected and is endangeringthe safety of others. Yeah, when
(30:56):
you're saying things like kill Jews orspeaking directly to individuals and threatening them,
that is not free speech anymore.That is you know, that's incitement to
violence or it's incitement to violence.Yeah. And so I agree with what
DJ said. I agree with whatRebecca said. I think there's a world
where both can coexist. It's notsimple, and yet we have to do
(31:18):
the hard thing and make sure thatas much as I disagree with the pro
Palestinian point of view and the antiIsrael point of view, I do have
to honor their right to express it. That's the quote. I do not
agree with what you say, butI will fight to the death for your
right to say it. May Imay make one request, though, can
(31:38):
we stop calling these people pro Palestinian? Yeah, and that's what they're getting
right. They care about the averagegosm. I agree, I agree.
If you want to talk, ifyou want to read a statement from somebody
who does care about the average cosm. Jamie Raskin just put out a statement
on the foreign aid bills and hisposition on Israel and the Yahoo goover and
(32:00):
the need for protecting the civilians inGaza that is eloquent and thoughtful and wise
because Jamie Ruskin is all of thosethings and he puts it into words beautifully.
Yeah, and I know we're notgoing to go down not the rabbit
hole, but we're not going togo too deep into Israel this week.
But there's one thought that I hadthis week. You know, there are
(32:22):
still bombings going on, there arestill raids going on from the air.
And then, frankly, I thinkthe Israelis have to modify their military tactics
at this point. But a lotof people think it's all Net and Yahoo
and that once Net Yahoo is nolonger in office and probably Benny Gans is
his successor. They think that somehowthings are going to get better. Benny
(32:45):
Gons is very much as right wing, maybe more right wing, and more
hawkish than net Yahoo. And ifpeople think that simply getting rid of net
and Yahoo is going to fix thisproblem, they are sadly, sadly mistaken.
Yeah, Israeli collisions are weird.But doesn't Gon support a two state
solution? That would be an improvementover BB, who clearly does not.
(33:06):
You know if he does, andI don't know the answer to that.
If he does, that would bean improvement. But I'm just saying in
terms of the war against mus heis extremely hawkish, and frankly, I
agree with a lot of the hawkishviews. I'm just saying that if people
think that it's just BB Netanyahu unilaterallymaking these decisions, they do not understand
Israeli politics. Right When, ifand when Gons takes over for Netanya,
(33:31):
who the war will continue against Amas? I do think it will be something
where Gons will pay a little moreattention to Palestinian civilians than BIB will.
But if Beny Gons is not goingto go for a ceasefire, and he
shouldn't, and again, DJ,you know, you know, foreign policy
so much better than me, andI defer to that. I'm just going
(33:52):
to say, from my reading andmy understanding, I think you and I
have a difference of opinion. Youknow where Benny Gonsol would be in terms
of prosecuting that war. We shouldcall Benny gounce. He could be our
guest next week. Oh yeah,he's booked. Speaking of guests, here's
another thing I'm going off topic.We have talked about RFK Junior on this
(34:15):
show. Bill Maher is having himon next week, and it's just going
to give this man a platform toreach another five or ten million liberals who
will be fooled by his BS nowhe is so he is such a piece
of shit. I just read that, like a whole bunch of people from
the environmental movement are asking him todrop out because they know that he's just
(34:36):
you know, he's a spoiler forTrump. And you know, Biden just
tossed down a whole bunch of environmentalprotections that benefit the Alaskan wildlife preserves,
and Trump will undo that in aheartbeat if RFK messes things up for him
in Michigan, messes and keeper Biden. And yet there is an and yet
there is an NBC Paul out todaythat shows nationally Donald Trumps ahead two points
(34:58):
in a two person rais, butwhen it's a five person race, including
RFK Junior, it flips to aBiden two point lead. So there's a
five person race, Kennedy, Yeah, because yes, I know, we
forget about those. But the pointis, there's no guarantee yet that our
(35:20):
FK Junior is going to do moreharm to Joe Biden than to Donald Trump.
It could happen. I'm not goingto say it won't happen, but
I'm not definitely saying it will happen. And I do think there are things
that Joe Biden can do to makesure it doesn't happen, but that'll extend
the show another hour, and wedon't want to do that, so I'll
stop, and I'm going to saythat I think you know as much DJ
as I would like to believe thePollier citing is the beginning of a trend
(35:44):
that is the beginning of the endfor RFK JR. I am choosing to
believe that r FK Junior is aproblem, and as Democrats, we should
address it by either calling out hiscrap on really thoughtful, interesting podcasts like
this one here or on social media, and you know, we all need
to be doing what we can tocontribute to the voter turnout efforts that we
(36:07):
need for November. And if thatmeans phone banking, text banking, uprooting
your life and go into a swingstate, you can stay in Greg's couch
if you need to. Ohio isnot a swing state anymore. I concur
with Rebecca completely. We need tomake sure everyone understands Robert F. K.
Junior is the exact kind of guythat Marjorie Taylor Green would cheat on
her husband with, ew wow ewand speaking of Republican politics, that was
(36:34):
gross. Well, all right,so palate cleanser. Tomorrow is Monday.
It will be April twenty second,and it will be the day that the
trial of Donald Trump versus the Stateof New York truly begins his criminal trial.
The jury has been impaneled, theyhave been sworn in. Trump stayed
(36:59):
awake for some of it. He'saware. I believe that it all happened.
He's not happy about it. Andopening statements will be happening on Monday.
Now we obviously we won't get tosee the opening statements. We won't
get to hear them live. ButI thought, as a fun thought exercise,
if you could cast a famous actorto deliver opening statements for the prosecution
(37:23):
of Donald Trump, who would youchoose? And I'm gonna start with Greg
because I feel like he knows acting. Oh, I'm sorry, I was
doom scrolling. Sorry. Now,look, I have two just because I
think they're great and they could doanything. One, of course, the
immortal al Pacino, because if hejust gets out there and just says random
(37:45):
things like wha, yeah, he'ssort of terrifying. He's terrifying, you're
out of order. I mean,just well yeah, but he should be
the defense attorney. He should bethe celebrity defense attorney. I know,
well he oh is this for prosecution? It could be both could I would
say I would definitely want him onTrump's side saying well, I've heard a
(38:07):
lot of horse but that would beawesome just to have him do that throughout
and just Austin the other one wouldbe the exact opposite but still incredible act,
Christopher Walking. Yah Ana I II I see the spot. No,
I I You're on. I justjust agree. Now, that could
(38:29):
be Christopher Walking or Jimmy Stewart dependingon how bad. Greg, Greg,
I want you to know you justfulfilled my dream for this segment. When
I said this, I was reallyhoping somebody would pick Christopher Walking, and
you came through for me. Icould count on you, Greg every single
time. DJ, who do youwant to see as your celebrity lawyer for
(38:52):
the for the prosecution? Robert Duvall. Okay, I still think he played
the best lawyer I for seen TomMegan and for the defense, Peter Cook,
particularly in his role as the Clergymanand the Princess Bride, because I
want him to say that it wasall about protecting Donald Twomp's mawage. The
(39:19):
name of that role in The PrincessBride was the impressive Clergyman. That's what
it is in the credits, Kevin, who are you thinking? Well?
First of all, Greg said theperson that I was gonna say for the
defense for the prosecution. You know, I tried thinking through my head because
I love courtroom dramas. I can'treally think of a movie where there was
(39:44):
a great prosecuting attorney performance. I'msure it exists, but I couldn't off
the top of my head come upwith it. So I have to borrow
from great defense lawyers and films,and I've got two, okay, So
for the prosecution, I would eitherlike Paul Newman from The Verse or Spencer
Tracy from Inherit the Wind. Okay, And of course there's always Atticus Finch.
(40:07):
But those are my those are mythree favorite courtroom lawyers from movies.
See, now, I was,you know, my first thought was,
you know, who do you wantup there just to like, you know,
just bedazzle luxury. And my firstthought was chero, you know,
just share and head to toe BobMackie strutting around the courtroom telling the jury
(40:30):
everything that's wrong with Donald Trump.And I'm thinking specifically of that monologue she
did in the Witches of Eastwick whereshe told Jack Nicholson everything that was wrong
with him, and the last lineis and also you smell that that would
be perfect. That's a little tooon point, though, yeah, but
maybe maybe nothing is too on pointthese days. And then my my my
(40:51):
other thought was Sir Anthony Hopkins inhis most Hannibal lecter mode to just you
know, scare the ship out ofeveryone. Wait, I want to I
want to amend mine. Literally,I was thinking of of people that.
Okay, I was just thinking goaround. I'll give you if you need
(41:15):
time. I thought of one likeI would like to see Peter Lowry from
the Old Fills, or he'd belike yes, yes, as a defense
oh big, you know, andjust that would be my favorite. Or
Molly Shannon is the superstar. Yeah, I have a co prosecution team.
I would like John Stewart and SamKinnison oh yeah, okay yeah, and
(41:42):
for the defense Gilbert Gottfried. YeahSam, I mean seriously, Sam Kinison
versus Gilbert Gottfried as lawyers. Ican't why did we not think of that
when they were both still walking thisearth? And we could have written a
screenplay. So if anybody wants tosomehow resurrected two of them, we have
a we have an idea for them. You know, the prosecutor who could
(42:05):
come up with the best closing statementfor that his prosecutor gets to close at
the end, Stephen Wright, hecould be basically put read dons defence and
just look at the jury like seriously, yeah you believe a real dry Also,
who'd be good? Who would havebeen good with that? Mitch Hedburg.
(42:27):
Ye, remember Mitch Hedburg. I'llgo I'll go on. I think
it should be John Lovett. Inhis past, he's a defense attorney,
beautiful wife, Morgan Fairchild. Buteverybody might tell us small fib Yeah,
(42:51):
that's the ticket Love. It's couldwork for the prosecution too, because he
was He was the actor that onSNL who played Michael Lucaccus when he said
I can't believe I'm losing to thisguy. Yes, one of the great
debate sketches of all time. Yes, I was thinking of love. It's
in the wedding singer either the scenewhere he's like he's totally lost his mind
(43:12):
talking about Adam Sandler. All right, Well, now that we have gone
down memory lane for movies and actorspast and who we think would give an
Oscar winning performance in court, I'dlike to thank all of you for listening
and going on this journey with ustonight. If you enjoy what we do
here, please follow us on Instagramat MPU fan Club, and don't forget
to share our podcast on all yoursocial media feeds, including TikTok while you
(43:37):
still have it is that way yourfriends can discover us as well. We
do have a substack blog page,and I promise I'm going to add something
to it this week that is blockedout on my calendar, and so we'll
be having opinions, essays, andrandom thoughts between shows, so you can
look for us there. And asalways, thank you to Alan Keny for
(43:59):
our theme music. And we alsowant to mention that on our Instagram page
at MPU Fan Club. We've justposted a new set of photos, Rebecca,
why did you tell everybody what theyare? All? Right? So
on Tuesday, Stephen Miller, whoI described in the photos as a botched
necromancy project, stated his opinion DonaldTrump is the most stylish president ever and
(44:22):
that everybody has been trying to dresslike him. And my thought was,
he wears blue suits, nothing else. He's never warn anything that I've seen
except for a blue suit. SoI decided to start an ongoing thread on
Twitter called Courtroom Couture, where Ianalyzed Donald Trump's outfits, his hair,
his skincare. I've taken note ofhis cuff links. I called for congressional
(44:45):
hearings into why he didn't wear aflag pin on the second day of the
trial. So I have shared screenshotsof that for your enjoyment. I will
be continuing this on Twitter. I'vebeen reading up on men'swear, so I
should have some really truncheon thoughts ontailoring soon. There you go, hm
(45:09):
and uh. And so, guys, what are you going to be looking
forward to this week besides the ongoingTrump trials and the Senate signing some foreign
aid bills. I have a I'vejust started a GoFundMe page to Saint Christopher
walking to law school. I figureby the time he's out, Trump will
(45:30):
still be on trial for something,so we will eventually get to hear y'all.
Anah, that's my goal, That'sall I want. And I'd just
like to add that on Friday,I'll be at my mom's birthday unless Donald
Trump is testifying, in which case, fuck you, mom, I'm watching
Donald Trump out
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