August 27, 2024 • 45 mins
This week's episode looks at the start of the general election campaign. Topics include highlights from the Democratic convention, whether or not there will be any more presidential debates, the most important issues that aren't being addressed, the state of House and Senate races, and the hosts' most memorable presidential campaigns from years past.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to the More Perfect Union, the podcast that offers
real debate without the hate. I'm Rebecca Kushmeier here in Kensington, Maryland,
and I am pleased to once again share the mic
with DJ maguire.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yes, and I must say last week's convention was one
of the best I've seen from the Republicans in a
long time. Wait wait, wait, undety no information to somebody else, Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
And Kevin Kelton.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I will say that last week's convention was one of
the best, if not the best, I've ever seen. Of course,
it's hard to compare them, since each one you think
at that time is a great one. But I think
the Democrats achieved what they wanted to achieve. And we'll
talk more about that.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, we were, we've been we've been off for a
couple of weeks, and we figured we'd wait to until
after the convention to regroup and discuss it. And who
boy did they They really did deliver. We all knew
it was going to be a bit of a heavy lift.
It's a hard pivot to change from one candidate to another.
There were definitely some people on the speaker's list who
you could tell we were there to shore up the
(01:18):
case for Joe Biden and Leon Panetta, and I.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Didn't think of that, but you're right.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
But overall, I really think it's not the right message.
It brought the right energy, and it was really and
they made the whole call entertaining. I didn't think that
was even possible. But let's talk about what our top
hits were. You know, let's each name our top three
moments from the convention. DJ. I'm going to start with you,
(01:49):
just because I like putting you on the spot.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
For me, Number three was Adam Consinger speech. It was
nice to see someone who was part of my niche
of the political spectrum getting some prime time and talking
about what has happened to the Republican Party, what a
mess it is, and why the Democratic Party really is
(02:12):
the only alternative left. My top my actually my top
two came from Kamala Harris's acceptance speech. First, Donald Trump
is an unserious man, but their serious consequences. I think
that perfectly said that.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
That was a very good line.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It's basically a much more sophisticated version of Charlie Sykes's statement,
A clown with a flamethrower still has a flamethrower, but
for me. The top moment, frankly, was when she got
into foreign policy and when she got into democracies versus tyrants.
I mean, yes, she could have just ticked the box
(02:48):
with Ukraine and NATO, which she did, and I would
have been happy with that and said, Okay, that's it,
We're good. But she went further into it and the frame.
It is still something that rattles around in my brain
and will because I enjoyed it so much. You know,
in the eternal struggle between democracy and tyranny, I know
or I stand, and I know where the United States belongs.
(03:11):
That is not the kind of thing I have heard
out of any convention in maybe twenty years. I loved
hearing it. I think most of the country loved hearing it.
Donald Trump made the Democrats the Party of national security
by accident. They didn't necessarily want to be want they wanted
to focus on, but they kind of had to. What
(03:32):
Kamala Harris saying in twenty twenty four is I got this.
This is part of what we're doing. We're going to
do it well. They owned the national security issue, which
they had not done in a long time. They haven't
tried it in a long time they tried, and they succeeded.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Kevin, What were your top three moments?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Well, I'm going to start with the one thing about
the convention that I didn't like as much, So I'm
going to start with Kevin's negativity. Wasn't crazy about the DJ.
I felt, well, that was a little pandering to the
youth volk. But you know what, they pulled it off.
People seemed to like it. I'm an old guy. I
probably wouldn't have liked him if he was just in
a club doing DJ work, So I'll give them a
(04:11):
pass at that. In terms of top three moments, there
were so many wonderful moments, and of course, you know,
it's tempting to go with the ones that everybody talked about,
like Michelle's speech, Obama's speech. Obviously, I really enjoyed Bill
Clinton's speech, even though it went on too long. I
always love hearing him talk. But for me, there were
(04:33):
two distinct moments. Well, okay, I'll add a third. The
Lieutenant Governor of Georgia whose name escape escapes me, who's
a Republican, who's Jeff Duncan. Thank you, Jeff Duncan. I
really thought that was a highlight. I'm going to go
three two one. My second highlight was Kamala's first speech
(04:56):
on the first night of the convention, which wasn't expected,
very rare from a nominee, and I thought it was
pitch perfect in terms of showing that she was there,
saying hello, introducing herself, not going on too long, and
just the spirit of it set the tone for I
think the next four days. So I thought that was great.
(05:18):
Of course, I really enjoyed her accept in speech, as
I did Tim's, Tim Walls's, but to me, the best
speech for me, the most moving speech of the convention
was Doug m Hoff. I thought he nailed it, not
just in introducing his wife, his spouse to the country,
(05:42):
but introducing himself. And I came away from that speech
saying I would like spending time with Doug em Hoff.
They talk about Tim Waltz being a regular guy. Doug
seems like the kind of guy that I could be
very comfortable with.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, and when his daughter spoke, you know, I noticed
there was a point where Kamala's niece and nephew came
out to speak, and I drew a contrast on Twitter saying,
you know, Kamala Harris's niece and nephew were on stage
telling people why they should support her. Donald Trump's niece
and nephew wrote tell All books warning people about him.
(06:17):
We are not the same my top three. Every moment
of the Walsh family was a highlight. The first night,
Gwen and Tim were in tears the whole time. You know,
could see them choking up at every moment, Like I
loved when Hope and Gus were giving Tim bunny ear sturing,
(06:38):
you know, when someone stuck a microphone in his face,
and then later he tweeted, Yeah, my kids keep me humble.
I loved Gus cheering, and you know, I know there
was so much discussion about what to say and what
not to say about Gus. Okay, clearly family of criers,
so yeah, he's gonna cry when he's emotional. But it
reminded me so much of being at a JV lacrosse
(06:59):
game and when one of my son's teammates scored, they're
like nine people in the audience. His adult sister was
there watching. She's a cop. She had the afternoon off,
so she was there watching her brother scores. She's on
her feet screaming, that's my brother. And cheering like they'd
won a national championship. So like, I'm like, yeah, there
are a sports family who christ Gus's reactions made perfect
sense to me, So I just yeah, I loved seeing them.
(07:21):
I love the energy they brought to the party. Really
to end to the convention, probably my number two was
a moment. The one that sticks with me was when
Raphael Warnock said, I need my neighbor's child to be okay,
so my child can be okay, and started naming spots
around the world where he needs those children to be
(07:41):
okay because they are our neighbors and that is how
all of our children are okay. And that, to me
was probably the strongest foreign policy statement of the convention
because it just reminds you that America is part of
a global community and everyone in the global community matters.
And then I'm going to say my top speech to
the whole convention stipulating the Kamala speech was extraordinary and
(08:06):
actually probably on another level, Michelle Obama.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
She also, I mean, she's taken the role of being
a first lady to a level no one's ever taken
it before, well maybe Eleanor Roosevelt, but short of her,
I don't think anyone else has ever been as much
their own person as she has been.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Okay, So moving along into more serious topics. We covered
a lot of ground at the convention. Reproductive justice was
very much spotlighted. Foreign policy. You know, a lot of
good talk about domestic issues like access to healthcare, drug pricing,
and housing costs. What do you guys think is not
(08:48):
being discussed? What issues do we need to maybe get
back to the surface of this conversation, Kevin, I know
you have thoughts on this.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I do.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Immigration has been brought up ever since Donald Trump came
down those that escalator in twenty fifteen, and of course
it's a big campaign issue on his side this year.
I would like to see the Democrats somehow address his
immigration policies with a lot more detail and make it
clear to the country what it means to try to
(09:21):
send out, to gather up and send out three to
five to ten million or more people. I don't think
that people really understand what that means. It means you
can't do it with just ice. You have to use
law enforcement, and ultimately you have to use the military,
(09:43):
whether it's a National Guard, whether it's the army. So
that means that Americans would be seeing if Donald Trump
were elected and attempted this deportation plan of his this
mass deportation plan, which I believe he is dead set
on trying. It means you will have trucks of armed
military troops on the streets of every American city looking
(10:08):
for these people. You will be living in a city
with armed military police going up and down the streets
looking for immigrants. It's the only way to do this.
You will also be seeing, I mean, think of it.
If you're going to gather several thousand people a day
and you have to ship them from wherever they are
(10:30):
to wherever you're going to house them until you can
deport them, how are you going to do that. It's
not going to be in buses because there's not enough
of them and they're not big enough. It's going to
be on trains. So you're going to see the same
images that we saw in Schindler's List and every other
Nazi movie, which is these others, these third world people,
(10:55):
in this case Latinos, being marched into train stations and
ushered onto trains at gunpoint. Do Americans want that? And
the third issue, I mean, there's so many things about
this that I think people need to be aware of
is if you're going to round up again, we're talking
(11:18):
about thousands and thousands of people a day to reach
the goals that Donald Trump wants to reach. There's going
to be mistakes because how are you going to do that.
You're going to send these troops, whether it's ice, whether
it's police, whether it's military troops. You're going to be
sending them into large companies, manufacturing companies, factories, into schools,
(11:44):
and they're going to be rounding up people and looking
for documentation and what if you belong in this country
but you look like one of these people, and by
the way, there will be profiling and you don't have
the right paperwork. They're not going to be that picky
about who they put on the buses and the trains,
(12:05):
and a lot of people will be rounded up accidentally.
And that means you're going to have the children of
immigrants leaving for school in the morning, being dropped off
at school by their moms and dads, getting out of
school and their moms and dads aren't there anymore, and
there's no word of what happened to them, and they'll
(12:27):
be waiting a day, they'll be waiting two days. They'll
call the rent their uncle. If they're still around, and
they're never coming back, and they won't know what happened
to them the whole process. Even if you believe that
immigration is the scourge that so many people believe it is,
I know, I'm going on a rent here. I'll wrap up.
Even if it's a major issue for you, This prescription,
(12:50):
this cure is worse than the problem. And I think
if Latino voters in Arizona and Nevada and Georgia, if
they if there's enough there, and I think minority voters
in Michigan, when you explain to them what Donald Trump's
plan means, the nuts and bolts of what we're looking at,
(13:13):
I think that his support in those communities will melt
like the wicked witch of the West.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You brought up raids on manufacturing facilities or business facilities,
and I think that is something that we have not
adequately thought through. If you have an ice raid on
a meat processing plant on a farm with workers out
in the fields, and they arrest ten fifty percent of
the workforce of that facility, that's going to dramatically affect
(13:44):
how that business operates. Definitely in the short term. Possibly
in the longer term, it's it's going to quell hiring
because they're not going to want to be subject to raids,
and that's.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Going to raise prices, so it's inflationary.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, I mean yeah, because I mean what they're talking
you know, they're not talking that stopping immigration. They're talking
about punishing immigrants, which is a different thing. You know,
you seal the borders and stop letting people in, Okay, fine,
but the people who are here.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, and I turned this into Nazi Germany in nineteen
thirty one.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah. Please, and certainly let's not do that in America.
Let's retain due process, yes, because yeah, they're what they're
talking about is a infeasible and be inhumane.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
While you were discussing this issue, I already had a
picture of mine. We've probably neither of the two thought
about for various partisan reasons. It's an older picture, but
I remember the first photo of the authorities seizing Elyon
Gonzales from his Florida home in April of two thousands.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
And people were other rhymes about that.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
People were furious about it, And I say, to this day,
the seizure of Onion Gonzalez is the actual region. George W.
Bush was President of the United States. It flipped Hispanics
in Florida, and it flipped the state of Florida. And
that picture all by itself is more than an I mean,
it'll be that picture times ten million, because this is
(15:09):
not something that is going to going to stop at
three million. It's not going to stop at five minutes.
For Donald Trump, it will be his drug. It will
be his cocaine.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You will well, yeah, no, it will be his gladiatorial arena.
He's gonna want to see.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Want the numbers to always, want the numbers to tries,
so it is never actually going to end.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It'll be his Dow Jones Industrial average something.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
So it's the worst analogy.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I'm kind of proud, like it's.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
A good analogy, but it's so awful.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
But it's in terms of the issue that I would
like to talk about more. If we had done this
podcast last week, I would have said international trade and
trum tariff plan. But Kamala Harris is already calling it
Donald Trump's thirty nine hundred dollars tax like, which it is,
by the way, excellent labeling. So that's cool. That is
no longer an issue not talked about. You know, the
(16:06):
first three days the convention really had been talking about
foreign policy. The last one did, so that box is stick.
Were good there. I think the one thing that no
one is talking about that the rest of us sort
of kind of look at with concern, or at least
I do, is the continually growing federal deficit. We are
(16:27):
at a point in the economic cycle where the deficit
should be at its minimum, not near or at its
maximum and going up. It fell considerably in twenty twenty
one after the COVID spending went cycled out. Yes, but
it is still north of one trillion dollars, north of
four to five percent of GDP, which is an unsustainable level.
(16:51):
And especially now that interest rates have been normalized again,
we're talking about payments on the US debt that are
now more than the entire defenses Department. We really need
to get agripinal of this stuff, and we have avoided
talking about it mainly because Donald Trump was a four
(17:11):
alarm fire. COVID threw everything up the window, and because
we'd had this very long period of very low interest rates.
The low drage period is done. The pandemic is will
not over. It has become largely manageable, and hopefully Donald
Trump would be consigned to the ashipeth history in November.
(17:32):
But there needs to be some discussion at least afterwards.
Then somebody who's coming to the American people and say,
we can't keep doing this anymore. We got to find
and we got to find a way to balance the books.
And nobody wants to have that discussion, so it won't
be had, but it needs to be at some point.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I agree. One of my big criticisms of my party,
the Democratic Party. It's bugged me for decades that every
time they propose a tax, that's a wealth tax, a
one percent on stock trades, whatever they propose, they never
(18:10):
say we're going to use it to pay down the debt.
They always want to put it towards a new program.
Stop doing that. If you're going to propose these things,
especially in an election year, say we're going to use
this to pay down the debt. Rebecca, what is your issue?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
The cost of college and access to college. You know,
we've talked a lot about relieving student debt for people
who are paying off money they borrowed ten fifteen, twenty
years ago, and you know how to provide them relief.
But the cost of college for new students is extraordinary,
(18:50):
and I think we have reached a point where there
needs to be some examination, and I would like to
actually see a task force out of the Department of
Education to do this, some examination of what is causing
the cost of college, What are you paying for, what
is the university using that money to do? Is it
(19:12):
delivering the core emission of educating students, Which is not
to say that colleges aren't educating students. I'm just saying
there's a lot else going on on those campuses and
maybe there's been some mission drift and costs could be
contained if that were to be curtailed a little bit,
not not by FIAT, but by you know, pointing out
(19:32):
two institutions. Listen, maybe you need to get back to
basics a little bit. And the you know, in addition
to the cost of college being so high, the criteria
for entry into college has gone really quite bizarre. You know,
you start getting these weighted grade point averages where a
kid has a four point seven GPA and they've started
a nonprofit and they you know, went to the Amazon
(19:53):
and planted an entirely new rainforest the summer between their
sophomore and junior year. You know, who can compete against that?
What is the purpose of college if you are coming
in that complete a person already? Do you even need
an undergraduate degree? You know, maybe maybe dial that back
a little bit too, and make it more about academic
performance and less about everything else in your life, because
(20:15):
it is kind of a referendum on whose students are
as a person when they're applying. And that's unlike any
other major nation in the world in terms of their
admissions policies, and we need to rethink it because we've
gotten a little extra and maybe we don't need to
be I.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Kind of wonder why is that issue so top of
the mind, for I don't know that Her oldest child
began his senior year of high school today.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Junior year actually, but junior year, junior year, No, it's
but but yeah, But let me tell you. The SAT
review books are getting delivered as we speak, and we're
starting to make lists of campuses to go. See. My
kid is a good student. He's a good student. If
he were applying to college in nineteen ninety when I was,
he would have gotten his pick.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
The little bit that I know about him from what
you've told us, I think he's going to do pretty
good getting help.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, I mean I think he's going to be I
think he's the best. Like but you know, they don't
let moms write an essay about their kids. It's really crazy.
I need to I've got a friend in admissions. I
should talk to her about adding that to applications like
where's the mom testimonial section?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
And so. Following up on Kevin's point, unless you had
something else to say about.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
It, no, I mean, I've got lots else to say,
but I'll let you have to turn.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Okay. Only one Democratic president in my lifetime, and I
think he's the only one in Kevin's lifetime too, has
specifically proposed a tax increase for the purpose of reducing
the deficit for the debt. That was Bill Clinton nineteen
(22:02):
ninety three. He remains one of only two Democrats since
World War Two to get re elected, and the only
Democrats in World War Two to get re elected with
more votes for re election than he got for his
first election. That should tell something to our current political
leadership that yes, it comes from right perspective. Reduction of deficit.
(22:27):
Reduction can be a winning issue. You just have to
be sincere about it. You have to be consistent about it,
which is George Brusus the elder's problem perhapses and you
have to push it through which did at did succeed?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Back to our current campaign, we are in a battle
between Kamala Harris and the mainstream media. Who wants more
access to Kamala Harris And apparently there are a lot
of people saying she needs to do a sit down
interview or give a press conference. Agree, disagree? Dojay, I'll
let you go first.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I would disagree in the short term. I agree in
the medium term, probably a good idea to have at
least by October, some kind of like six I would say,
sixty minutes deal. I think that would be of greater
value than a press conference. Press conferences are not what
they used to be. It's just various reporters shouting something
(23:26):
that is interesting to them and maybe if you can
hear them, they might be interested. But politicians don't get
answers at press conferences anymore. They give little sound bites.
It's you know, it's almost as bad as debates in
a minute, but you know, a sit down interview with
sixty minutes or something is a chance for miss Harris
(23:46):
to expound on what she would do, what she thinks.
You know, where she and President Biden go in the
same direction, where they make different directions, just how much
of a debilitation Donald Trump's second term would be, and
those kinds of things. I think that would be better
for her, and I think it would be better for us
as voters than a press conference with a bunch of
(24:08):
reporters looking to figure out what their next headline is
and a politician who will be immediately on the defensive
wondering how can I make sure that there's nothing that
my opponents can get to me in thirty second bits?
And now is something that I think I can that
can help my campaign in thirty second bits. I don't
think that that's as important as say, that's.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
A down interview, Kevin, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I think this is one of the most overblown issues
in the presidential campaign I've ever heard. It's just silliness,
and the only reason it is an issue is because
the Republicans are desperate to find issues that they can
hold against the Democratic ticket, and they've created this out
of whole cloth. And I have to say that the
media has helped them by adding to the drum beat
(24:52):
of when is she going to do a press conference,
When is she going to do an interview? She's going
to do it.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
She's going to do it.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
When they started asking this, Joe Biden had just stepped
aside and kind of anointed her as his heir apparent.
Like two or three weeks earlier. She was preparing, she
was doing campaign events, she was creating an entire campaign,
including hiring staff, and she was preparing for the DNC.
(25:18):
She didn't get around to it yet. But she's going
to do it, and she's not going to fall apart.
People seem to think, oh, she's afraid to speak to
the press, Are you crazy? The woman is fine talking.
She had one inopportune moment in an interview with Lesterholt
where he asked her about going to the southern border,
(25:40):
and she said, no, I've never been to the southern border.
I've also never been to Europe, which, by the way,
I don't think it was that bad an idea to say,
but they blew that into oh, what a dumb thing
to say. I don't know why, but I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Well, because I think it was within the first six
months of the administration. She hasn't been to the southern
border or Europe in that sixth month period, but it
was all it could still happen. It was like, yeah,
I haven't been there yet.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And you don't have to get in the southern border
to discuss the immigration problem. Ninety nine percent of the
people in this country have never been to the southern border,
and yet they have a lot of opinions about how
to fix immigration. By the way, I looked it up today,
and if my research is correct, Ronald Reagan never went
to the southern border, So anyways, I think it's overblown.
(26:27):
She's going to do it. By the way, DJ I
was trying to think of who the right organization, the
right interviewer was for her to do her first sit down.
I think you're right. Sixty minutes is the perfect place
because they will not ask gotcha questions and it will
have the level of gravitas that you want, but yet
it will be more than just policy questions. She's going
(26:50):
to do fine, and then they'll make some other ridiculous
issue out of whole cloth.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
See, I was thinking it should be Katie currukh one question,
what do you read? That's it? I like it, don't
make it harder than it has to be. And we're
coming up on a debate, and I think this is
actually probably something she's trying to put off until after
(27:16):
the debate, because you know, staggering your primetime appearances makes
a lot of sense if you're trying to stay in
the conversation, you want to ride the different news cycles.
But today Trump was whining it's not the right word,
haranguing about the upcoming September tenth debate, commenting that he
(27:37):
doesn't like the rules that they're proposing for this now.
And then there was a statement out of the Harris
campaign saying we want there to be live mics through
the entire debate. His staff wants the mute button because
apparently they don't think he can behave himself for ninety minutes.
DJ and I believe that there will not be a debate, Kevin,
(27:59):
would you like to debate us on the debate debate?
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I'm not going to debate you. I believe there will
be a debate on September tenth, or if not that date,
there will be a debate in September and I'm just
surprised that you guys actually believe there isn't going to
be a debate. But of course I could be wrong.
Time will tell.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
He's got Tulsi Gabbard helping him with debate prep.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I actually think that's a good choice. I heard some
moderators today making fun of it. I think she's as
good a choice as anyone.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Tulsi may be a complete what job as a politician,
but she's not a bad debater. So and you know,
in terms of skill sets, Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
You think Donald Trump is going to take advice from
a woman.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I think Donald Trump will take advice from the men
in the room who agree with the woman.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Maybe right.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And I think Tulsi can I think Gabard can convince
probably a number of deaths. Again, I did this with
the first debate with Joe Biden. Clearly Donald Trump was
much more confident about facing off with Joe Biden, and
we can all understand why. But I still don't think.
I'm not going to believe there's a debate until Donald
Trump actually begins talking in that studio office. I've ever
(29:05):
don because there is even now, Debates don't help him.
Debates have never helped him.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
In fact, and he has a lot more to lose
in this particular debate than Kamala Harris does.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
First of all, I think that the reason that there's
going to be a debate is not because Donald Trump
needed I think Donald Trump does need it. He needs
it because he needs one more big moment in this
campaign to blunt the Harris momentum and to hopefully create
a moment that they can say, oh, look, she made
a big error. She's not ready for the presidency. But
(29:39):
I just want to address this hot mike question for
a second. A lot of people today think that the
reason that the issue came up is that Trump is
getting cold feet over having a hot mic because his
people don't believe that he can contain himself on a
hot mic. I don't think that that's what they're worried about.
I think the reason they don't want a hot mic
(29:59):
is because they don't want Kamala Harris to be able
to interrogate him during his answers. They don't want Kamala
Harris to be able to play moderator because she is
damn good at that. And I think that's the reason
they want the mute button.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
There Oh, so they're afraid of the Kamala Harris, the
interrogated Jeff Sessions, that interrogated Brett Havanaugh, that prosecuted criminal
cases coming out and asking him follow up questions, and
that an.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Open mic plays to that strength that allows her to
do it well.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
It also it opens up the opportunity for I'm speaking
to happen, which that was the first steamroller to leave
tracks on Mike Pence in that campaign. He never did
come back.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
From that that no fly.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yes, yeah, I have a T shirt that says I'm speaking.
But there is still the congressional map is still very
much in question. There are state and local elections happening
all over the place. What do you think, DJ, what
do you prognosticate when we talk about the House in
the Senate? Any optimism?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yes? Actually I have never thought the Republicans would keep
the House after the incredible ship show that was twenty
twenty three.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You mean ousting speakers and Marjorie Taylor Green making fun
of people's eyelashes, and Georgia Cromer and George Santos.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, all that kind of stuff. That's that's sort of
an undercurrent, but especially now with Harris sort of running
as the you know, you know, we're not going back
to the chaos. We're not coming back to the crazy.
The House GOP has been all crazy all the time,
and I think voters are going to reject that. You
have to remember the Republicans got a narrow nine seat
(31:54):
a nine seat gap, a nine seat majority, despite winning
the popular vote by more than three point. They have
the reverse problem that Democratic nominees for president do, and
that if the popular vote is even, that means Republicans
are in a minority in the House. And I don't
think the Boblar vote would be even. I think Democrats
(32:14):
will narrowly be ahead of the popular vote and that
will be enough to give them a majority. On the
Senate side. I've always assumed that forty eight was the
Democratic four. For a while I thought forty eight it
was also the Democratic ceiling. But both Sharra Brown and
John Tester have been getting fairly decent polling numbers. Brown
in particular looks like he will probably hold the seat
(32:36):
in Ohio. There are various polls that show Tester behind,
their various public show Tester ahead. It's Montana. It will
always come down to the wire. It always has. But
that's a pretty good position for Democrats to be in
considering the twenty twenty four map. So if they can
come in, you know, obviously they come in fifty to
fifty with a Harris victory, they can maintain center control.
(32:59):
But even if they come in at a mere fifty
one to forty nine, that Republican majority in the Senate
is not really going to be able to do much.
Lisa Murkowski is not going to be is not going
to join in on their cultural war nonsense. She's there
till twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Langford actually isn't up for reelection this cycle, so he's
potentially an ally on continued common sense imtegration reform. I mean,
you know, it gets it, that gets us into It's
still a Republican majority does slow up and hold up
judicial appointments because Mitch McConnell broke that irreparably.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
A Republican majority will will have will cause some problems
for a Harris administration, no doubt, and certainly when it
comes to the judicial mnage. I don't see Susan Collins
and Lisa Murkowski waging the equivalent of the equivalent of
a Holy War on Kamala Harris's cabinet. I don't think
(33:55):
they're going to try it. They're Noah, I don't think
they'll do to stop all the cabinet nominations. They may
pick off one or two that are week because that always,
you know, there's always a mistake made. But if Democrats
can come in with forty nine, that'll be a very
good position for Kamala Harris as president, and they could
(34:16):
in theory even give a real, God help us a
Trump's second term if they have a Democratic House majority
alone with them, They're not going to stop a lot
of what Donald Trump has done, but they can slow
it down a little, and that could mean something. If
we're in worst case scenarios and god knows what else
and everything else, it could mean something. But again, no
(34:39):
matter what happens, the Democrats are Democrats are flipping back
the House. I've always said that, I still say it,
and yeah, I feel much better about the Senate than
I did two weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Kevin, what do you think.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
I want to build on what DJ said as I
often try to. You mentioned Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins,
and they're also a buffer for the Harris a Harris
administration on abortion rights. Because if there's a forty nine
to fifty one Republican Senate and the new Senate majority
(35:12):
leader thinks about changing or doing away with the filibuster
the sixty vote threshold, you add Lisa Mkowski and Susan
Collins to forty nine on the Democratic side, and there's
enough votes there to get a House passed twenty four
(35:32):
week Row versus Wade style piece of legislation to President
Harris's desk. So they could be, as you said, they
could be the Joe Manchins of the next of the
next Senate.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Well, let's pivot a little bit too the abortion question.
They're actually almost a dozen states with abortion measures on
the ballot. In most cases it's to affirm a right
to abortion. Actually, I believe in Nebraska there's one of each.
So voters are going to have to pick whether they
want to affirm it or uphold a ban. And do
you think this moves the needle on turnout? We're looking
(36:09):
at Arizona, Nevada, and Nebraska, among others. You know, a
highly motivated pro choice base in Arizona could be the
game that Kamala Harris needs the you know, the Steph
Curry three pointer at the end of the game against France.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
It's a one word answer, yes.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
And the evidence for it is in Kansas, which you
had a ref which had a referend.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Oh, I have had one as well.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
But in Kansas, the referendum passed and the Democrats held
the governorship and held the war, and actually I think
flipped the congressional seat. They flipped it or they held
one that they flipped earlier, and I don't know if
that happens without that referendum sort of galvanized the Democratic Party.
One referendum that you didn't mention that I think will
(36:57):
help the Democrats a lot more is the Florida abortion referendum,
because we still don't know how Donald Trump, the Florida resident,
will vote on it. Person never tell, but it's but
you know, jd. Vance is already trying to sit is
already trying to say that Trump will will actually veto
(37:17):
national abortion ban, and that's got a bunch of the
pro life based furious Adam. He will have to try
to walk that back over the next two to three weeks,
and then we'll get the rest of the country furious
at them, at him, and it will be this sort
of ping pong that goes back and forth between who
does Donald Trump take off on this or that various day,
and as he tries to sort out what leave it
(37:39):
to the States means, he's going to get reminded over
and over again that Stephen Douglas actually finished last in
the eighteen sixty election.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
His rant about everyone all legal scholars wanted it returned
to the states. Democrats, Republicans want it return to states.
That is nonsense. It is absolute for nonsense. You've got
like Laura Ingraham going, I don't think that women understand that,
you know, it's for the states to decide. I'm like, no,
women understand perfectly, Laura. We don't want the states to decide.
(38:10):
We want women to decide for themselves without input from
the states, and them trying to say abortion isn't banned.
It is banned. If you live in Texas, it's banned.
If you live in South Dakota or North Dakota, it's banned.
You know, geography should not be destiny in this country
unless you're talking about weather and there. I'm so annoyed
(38:33):
with the flagrancy of the lies and the bad faith
arguing that they're all doing. And you know, if punching
people in the throat was legal, maybe I'd be less stressed.
All right, let's let's let's let's take a little walk
down memory lane. We've all lived through well, definitely more
than one presidential campaign. Maybe we don't need to cite
(38:54):
numbers here, No, I don't need to admit too much.
But you know, we've all observed these from from different
person inspectives. Which ones do you remember the best? Which
ones make you smile when you think about them? Kevin,
I'll let you go first, because I think you've got
some good answers here.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Well, I certainly probably remember the most of them, just
because I'm somewhat older than you guys. The Jimmy Carter
nineteen seventy six to one was a highlight for me.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Oh, I've voted in that election for Jimmy Carter.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Yeah, my mother let me pull the lever. I was three. Wow.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
The Jimmy Carter nineteen eighty election, where he lost to
Ronald Reagan, was a big disappointment to me. I was
also disappointed in Michael Ducaccus losing. I don't think I
thought he had a chance but I was still disappointed.
Obviously Obama everybody cried that night. Yeah, I have so
(39:51):
many individual memories of elections, there's no one. I mean,
Obama would be hard to top, although we're going to
top it this year if Harris gets elected. And of
course the disappointment of twenty sixteen. So I too many
disappointments and a couple of real standouts.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
DJ, how about you keeping it stipulating again? Duja was
a Republican for a long time, so his nostalgia is
going to be a different flavor than ours, but it
is no less valid.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Sure it is, and probably for me, the actually would
be the first one I really paid the mostention, which
was nineteen eighty eight, not only because the candidate I
preferred won, but because it was it well, it's I
think it still is the largest, the largest comeback from
a poll deficit in history. I mean, George Bushielder really
(40:44):
was trailing by seventeen points in the polls and he
managed to pull all the way back from that. And
then some people don't look back at nineteen eighty eight
as a memorable campaign because you had the Reagan campaigns
prior you had you know, you had it was bookended
by two very persuasive politicians getting elected. But the nineteen
(41:05):
eighty eight campaign had some drama and it had some
excitement that a lot of campaigns since then haven't had.
I mean, nineteen ninety six was basically the nothing happened campaign.
Bill Clinton was ahead in January, and he basically stayed
ahead by a bunch all the way through and almost
nothing happened.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
You know, I actually had to think who Bill Clinton
was running against in ninety six, and there we got
and it was Bob Dole, not a minor figure.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
No one forgets Bob Dole.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, well, there we go. It was quite a story,
and it was really you know, for the first one,
it was the first one I really paid attention to.
It was quite dramatic and exciting. I think the other one,
I think the one that was the most the one
that had the most impact on me, would have actually
been twenty twelve with where Robney lost, because for me,
(41:56):
for one, it was the American is the first American
version of the polls really messing up, particularly at the
national level. And Gallup still doesn't do presidential horse race
elections because it got twenty twelve so badly wrong, And
it was really my first recognition that the little universe
(42:21):
of which I was a part. I knew it wasn't
all of America, but I presumed it was a majority
of them, and I had to sit up and accept
the fact that it wasn't a majority, that it wasn't
really an American majority anymore. That was the one that
really forced me to do a lot more soul searching
than any others either forces Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
It was Obama And I'll tell you why I had
a baby in January of two thousand and eight, and
everything about that election suddenly about someone other than me.
And you don't forget your first election as a mother
and what it means. So that's my story answer. And
now I've got to think about the to college because
(43:01):
of that self same baby. We're all smart enough. We
don't need to go to school anymore. Just listen to us.
We are as brilliant as they come, the smartest podcasters
on the great big series of tubes that we call
the Internet. So thank you for listening. If you enjoy
what we do here, please follow our Instagram at MPU
Fanclub or our substack page, where I swear to God
(43:23):
we will all write something very very soon, and don't
forget to share our link on your social media timelines
so everyone you've ever met can find us and DJ,
you'll start doing TikTok dances if we get really popular.
DJ didn't know that he was that I just made
it up. But we'll get on that, I promise. And
thanks as always to Alan Keni for our theme music.
(43:51):
And as we head into the beginning of September, what
are you most looking forward to for fall? DJ? Any
good cons coming up, long songwriting marathons.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
No, I'm actually looking I'm looking forward to the resumption
of the NFL season. I'm looking forward to football.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I was gonna say, see, you're looking forward to seeing
your team loose. That's fun for you. Take it back.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
I know it's it's not going to be particularly get
your Giants, but that's okay. It'll be just it'll be
just going to see football again. And it will be
good to see the Yankees in the playoffs for sure.
That will happen.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
All right, Kevin, how about you? Any any top top
plans for fall?
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Well, not to be not to be morose, but I've
had to stay very close to home all summer long.
Because of some health and medical treatments that I've been
getting locally. So I'm looking forward to that coming to
an end on September tenth, so Jessica and I can
start traveling again. And we don't know exactly where we're going,
but we will be doing some traveling in the fall
(44:51):
and winter.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
I think you should go to places like Bora, Bora
and Fiji, and.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
I'm just reading about those today.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, that's go write yourself a cabana and a hammock
and like you can just can drink things out of
coconut shells. It'll be great.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
A great place to watch the election
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Really, yeah, if I just stay there if they go badly,
Welcome to the More Perfect Union, the podcast that offers
real debate without the hate. I'm Rebecca Kushmeier here in Kensington, Maryland,
and I am pleased to once again share the mic
with DJ maguire.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yes, and I must say last week's convention was one
of the best I've seen from the Republicans in a
long time. Wait wait, wait, undety no information to somebody else, Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
And Kevin Kelton.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I will say that last week's convention was one of
the best, if not the best, I've ever seen. Of course,
it's hard to compare them, since each one you think
at that time is a great one. But I think
the Democrats achieved what they wanted to achieve. And we'll
talk more about that.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, we were, we've been we've been off for a
couple of weeks, and we figured we'd wait to until
after the convention to regroup and discuss it. And who
boy did they They really did deliver. We all knew
it was going to be a bit of a heavy lift.
It's a hard pivot to change from one candidate to another.
There were definitely some people on the speaker's list who
you could tell we were there to shore up the
(01:18):
case for Joe Biden and Leon Panetta, and I.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Didn't think of that, but you're right.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
But overall, I really think it's not the right message.
It brought the right energy, and it was really and
they made the whole call entertaining. I didn't think that
was even possible. But let's talk about what our top
hits were. You know, let's each name our top three
moments from the convention. DJ. I'm going to start with you,
(01:49):
just because I like putting you on the spot.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
For me, Number three was Adam Consinger speech. It was
nice to see someone who was part of my niche
of the political spectrum getting some prime time and talking
about what has happened to the Republican Party, what a
mess it is, and why the Democratic Party really is
(02:12):
the only alternative left. My top my actually my top
two came from Kamala Harris's acceptance speech. First, Donald Trump
is an unserious man, but their serious consequences. I think
that perfectly said that.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
That was a very good line.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It's basically a much more sophisticated version of Charlie Sykes's statement,
A clown with a flamethrower still has a flamethrower, but
for me. The top moment, frankly, was when she got
into foreign policy and when she got into democracies versus tyrants.
I mean, yes, she could have just ticked the box
(02:48):
with Ukraine and NATO, which she did, and I would
have been happy with that and said, Okay, that's it,
We're good. But she went further into it and the frame.
It is still something that rattles around in my brain
and will because I enjoyed it so much. You know,
in the eternal struggle between democracy and tyranny, I know
or I stand, and I know where the United States belongs.
(03:11):
That is not the kind of thing I have heard
out of any convention in maybe twenty years. I loved
hearing it. I think most of the country loved hearing it.
Donald Trump made the Democrats the Party of national security
by accident. They didn't necessarily want to be want they wanted
to focus on, but they kind of had to. What
(03:32):
Kamala Harris saying in twenty twenty four is I got this.
This is part of what we're doing. We're going to
do it well. They owned the national security issue, which
they had not done in a long time. They haven't
tried it in a long time they tried, and they succeeded.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Kevin, What were your top three moments?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Well, I'm going to start with the one thing about
the convention that I didn't like as much, So I'm
going to start with Kevin's negativity. Wasn't crazy about the DJ.
I felt, well, that was a little pandering to the
youth volk. But you know what, they pulled it off.
People seemed to like it. I'm an old guy. I
probably wouldn't have liked him if he was just in
a club doing DJ work, So I'll give them a
(04:11):
pass at that. In terms of top three moments, there
were so many wonderful moments, and of course, you know,
it's tempting to go with the ones that everybody talked about,
like Michelle's speech, Obama's speech. Obviously, I really enjoyed Bill
Clinton's speech, even though it went on too long. I
always love hearing him talk. But for me, there were
(04:33):
two distinct moments. Well, okay, I'll add a third. The
Lieutenant Governor of Georgia whose name escape escapes me, who's
a Republican, who's Jeff Duncan. Thank you, Jeff Duncan. I
really thought that was a highlight. I'm going to go
three two one. My second highlight was Kamala's first speech
(04:56):
on the first night of the convention, which wasn't expected,
very rare from a nominee, and I thought it was
pitch perfect in terms of showing that she was there,
saying hello, introducing herself, not going on too long, and
just the spirit of it set the tone for I
think the next four days. So I thought that was great.
(05:18):
Of course, I really enjoyed her accept in speech, as
I did Tim's, Tim Walls's, but to me, the best
speech for me, the most moving speech of the convention
was Doug m Hoff. I thought he nailed it, not
just in introducing his wife, his spouse to the country,
(05:42):
but introducing himself. And I came away from that speech
saying I would like spending time with Doug em Hoff.
They talk about Tim Waltz being a regular guy. Doug
seems like the kind of guy that I could be
very comfortable with.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, and when his daughter spoke, you know, I noticed
there was a point where Kamala's niece and nephew came
out to speak, and I drew a contrast on Twitter saying,
you know, Kamala Harris's niece and nephew were on stage
telling people why they should support her. Donald Trump's niece
and nephew wrote tell All books warning people about him.
(06:17):
We are not the same my top three. Every moment
of the Walsh family was a highlight. The first night,
Gwen and Tim were in tears the whole time. You know,
could see them choking up at every moment, Like I
loved when Hope and Gus were giving Tim bunny ear sturing,
(06:38):
you know, when someone stuck a microphone in his face,
and then later he tweeted, Yeah, my kids keep me humble.
I loved Gus cheering, and you know, I know there
was so much discussion about what to say and what
not to say about Gus. Okay, clearly family of criers,
so yeah, he's gonna cry when he's emotional. But it
reminded me so much of being at a JV lacrosse
(06:59):
game and when one of my son's teammates scored, they're
like nine people in the audience. His adult sister was
there watching. She's a cop. She had the afternoon off,
so she was there watching her brother scores. She's on
her feet screaming, that's my brother. And cheering like they'd
won a national championship. So like, I'm like, yeah, there
are a sports family who christ Gus's reactions made perfect
sense to me, So I just yeah, I loved seeing them.
(07:21):
I love the energy they brought to the party. Really
to end to the convention, probably my number two was
a moment. The one that sticks with me was when
Raphael Warnock said, I need my neighbor's child to be okay,
so my child can be okay, and started naming spots
around the world where he needs those children to be
(07:41):
okay because they are our neighbors and that is how
all of our children are okay. And that, to me
was probably the strongest foreign policy statement of the convention
because it just reminds you that America is part of
a global community and everyone in the global community matters.
And then I'm going to say my top speech to
the whole convention stipulating the Kamala speech was extraordinary and
(08:06):
actually probably on another level, Michelle Obama.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
She also, I mean, she's taken the role of being
a first lady to a level no one's ever taken
it before, well maybe Eleanor Roosevelt, but short of her,
I don't think anyone else has ever been as much
their own person as she has been.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Okay, So moving along into more serious topics. We covered
a lot of ground at the convention. Reproductive justice was
very much spotlighted. Foreign policy. You know, a lot of
good talk about domestic issues like access to healthcare, drug pricing,
and housing costs. What do you guys think is not
(08:48):
being discussed? What issues do we need to maybe get
back to the surface of this conversation, Kevin, I know
you have thoughts on this.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I do.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Immigration has been brought up ever since Donald Trump came
down those that escalator in twenty fifteen, and of course
it's a big campaign issue on his side this year.
I would like to see the Democrats somehow address his
immigration policies with a lot more detail and make it
clear to the country what it means to try to
(09:21):
send out, to gather up and send out three to
five to ten million or more people. I don't think
that people really understand what that means. It means you
can't do it with just ice. You have to use
law enforcement, and ultimately you have to use the military,
(09:43):
whether it's a National Guard, whether it's the army. So
that means that Americans would be seeing if Donald Trump
were elected and attempted this deportation plan of his this
mass deportation plan, which I believe he is dead set
on trying. It means you will have trucks of armed
military troops on the streets of every American city looking
(10:08):
for these people. You will be living in a city
with armed military police going up and down the streets
looking for immigrants. It's the only way to do this.
You will also be seeing, I mean, think of it.
If you're going to gather several thousand people a day
and you have to ship them from wherever they are
(10:30):
to wherever you're going to house them until you can
deport them, how are you going to do that. It's
not going to be in buses because there's not enough
of them and they're not big enough. It's going to
be on trains. So you're going to see the same
images that we saw in Schindler's List and every other
Nazi movie, which is these others, these third world people,
(10:55):
in this case Latinos, being marched into train stations and
ushered onto trains at gunpoint. Do Americans want that? And
the third issue, I mean, there's so many things about
this that I think people need to be aware of
is if you're going to round up again, we're talking
(11:18):
about thousands and thousands of people a day to reach
the goals that Donald Trump wants to reach. There's going
to be mistakes because how are you going to do that.
You're going to send these troops, whether it's ice, whether
it's police, whether it's military troops. You're going to be
sending them into large companies, manufacturing companies, factories, into schools,
(11:44):
and they're going to be rounding up people and looking
for documentation and what if you belong in this country
but you look like one of these people, and by
the way, there will be profiling and you don't have
the right paperwork. They're not going to be that picky
about who they put on the buses and the trains,
(12:05):
and a lot of people will be rounded up accidentally.
And that means you're going to have the children of
immigrants leaving for school in the morning, being dropped off
at school by their moms and dads, getting out of
school and their moms and dads aren't there anymore, and
there's no word of what happened to them, and they'll
(12:27):
be waiting a day, they'll be waiting two days. They'll
call the rent their uncle. If they're still around, and
they're never coming back, and they won't know what happened
to them the whole process. Even if you believe that
immigration is the scourge that so many people believe it is,
I know, I'm going on a rent here. I'll wrap up.
Even if it's a major issue for you, This prescription,
(12:50):
this cure is worse than the problem. And I think
if Latino voters in Arizona and Nevada and Georgia, if
they if there's enough there, and I think minority voters
in Michigan, when you explain to them what Donald Trump's
plan means, the nuts and bolts of what we're looking at,
(13:13):
I think that his support in those communities will melt
like the wicked witch of the West.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You brought up raids on manufacturing facilities or business facilities,
and I think that is something that we have not
adequately thought through. If you have an ice raid on
a meat processing plant on a farm with workers out
in the fields, and they arrest ten fifty percent of
the workforce of that facility, that's going to dramatically affect
(13:44):
how that business operates. Definitely in the short term. Possibly
in the longer term, it's it's going to quell hiring
because they're not going to want to be subject to raids,
and that's.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Going to raise prices, so it's inflationary.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, I mean yeah, because I mean what they're talking
you know, they're not talking that stopping immigration. They're talking
about punishing immigrants, which is a different thing. You know,
you seal the borders and stop letting people in, Okay, fine,
but the people who are here.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, and I turned this into Nazi Germany in nineteen
thirty one.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah. Please, and certainly let's not do that in America.
Let's retain due process, yes, because yeah, they're what they're
talking about is a infeasible and be inhumane.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
While you were discussing this issue, I already had a
picture of mine. We've probably neither of the two thought
about for various partisan reasons. It's an older picture, but
I remember the first photo of the authorities seizing Elyon
Gonzales from his Florida home in April of two thousands.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
And people were other rhymes about that.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
People were furious about it, And I say, to this day,
the seizure of Onion Gonzalez is the actual region. George W.
Bush was President of the United States. It flipped Hispanics
in Florida, and it flipped the state of Florida. And
that picture all by itself is more than an I mean,
it'll be that picture times ten million, because this is
(15:09):
not something that is going to going to stop at
three million. It's not going to stop at five minutes.
For Donald Trump, it will be his drug. It will
be his cocaine.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You will well, yeah, no, it will be his gladiatorial arena.
He's gonna want to see.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Want the numbers to always, want the numbers to tries,
so it is never actually going to end.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It'll be his Dow Jones Industrial average something.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
So it's the worst analogy.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I'm kind of proud, like it's.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
A good analogy, but it's so awful.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
But it's in terms of the issue that I would
like to talk about more. If we had done this
podcast last week, I would have said international trade and
trum tariff plan. But Kamala Harris is already calling it
Donald Trump's thirty nine hundred dollars tax like, which it is,
by the way, excellent labeling. So that's cool. That is
no longer an issue not talked about. You know, the
(16:06):
first three days the convention really had been talking about
foreign policy. The last one did, so that box is stick.
Were good there. I think the one thing that no
one is talking about that the rest of us sort
of kind of look at with concern, or at least
I do, is the continually growing federal deficit. We are
(16:27):
at a point in the economic cycle where the deficit
should be at its minimum, not near or at its
maximum and going up. It fell considerably in twenty twenty
one after the COVID spending went cycled out. Yes, but
it is still north of one trillion dollars, north of
four to five percent of GDP, which is an unsustainable level.
(16:51):
And especially now that interest rates have been normalized again,
we're talking about payments on the US debt that are
now more than the entire defenses Department. We really need
to get agripinal of this stuff, and we have avoided
talking about it mainly because Donald Trump was a four
(17:11):
alarm fire. COVID threw everything up the window, and because
we'd had this very long period of very low interest rates.
The low drage period is done. The pandemic is will
not over. It has become largely manageable, and hopefully Donald
Trump would be consigned to the ashipeth history in November.
(17:32):
But there needs to be some discussion at least afterwards.
Then somebody who's coming to the American people and say,
we can't keep doing this anymore. We got to find
and we got to find a way to balance the books.
And nobody wants to have that discussion, so it won't
be had, but it needs to be at some point.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I agree. One of my big criticisms of my party,
the Democratic Party. It's bugged me for decades that every
time they propose a tax, that's a wealth tax, a
one percent on stock trades, whatever they propose, they never
(18:10):
say we're going to use it to pay down the debt.
They always want to put it towards a new program.
Stop doing that. If you're going to propose these things,
especially in an election year, say we're going to use
this to pay down the debt. Rebecca, what is your issue?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
The cost of college and access to college. You know,
we've talked a lot about relieving student debt for people
who are paying off money they borrowed ten fifteen, twenty
years ago, and you know how to provide them relief.
But the cost of college for new students is extraordinary,
(18:50):
and I think we have reached a point where there
needs to be some examination, and I would like to
actually see a task force out of the Department of
Education to do this, some examination of what is causing
the cost of college, What are you paying for, what
is the university using that money to do? Is it
(19:12):
delivering the core emission of educating students, Which is not
to say that colleges aren't educating students. I'm just saying
there's a lot else going on on those campuses and
maybe there's been some mission drift and costs could be
contained if that were to be curtailed a little bit,
not not by FIAT, but by you know, pointing out
(19:32):
two institutions. Listen, maybe you need to get back to
basics a little bit. And the you know, in addition
to the cost of college being so high, the criteria
for entry into college has gone really quite bizarre. You know,
you start getting these weighted grade point averages where a
kid has a four point seven GPA and they've started
a nonprofit and they you know, went to the Amazon
(19:53):
and planted an entirely new rainforest the summer between their
sophomore and junior year. You know, who can compete against that?
What is the purpose of college if you are coming
in that complete a person already? Do you even need
an undergraduate degree? You know, maybe maybe dial that back
a little bit too, and make it more about academic
performance and less about everything else in your life, because
(20:15):
it is kind of a referendum on whose students are
as a person when they're applying. And that's unlike any
other major nation in the world in terms of their
admissions policies, and we need to rethink it because we've
gotten a little extra and maybe we don't need to
be I.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Kind of wonder why is that issue so top of
the mind, for I don't know that Her oldest child
began his senior year of high school today.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Junior year actually, but junior year, junior year, No, it's
but but yeah, But let me tell you. The SAT
review books are getting delivered as we speak, and we're
starting to make lists of campuses to go. See. My
kid is a good student. He's a good student. If
he were applying to college in nineteen ninety when I was,
he would have gotten his pick.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
The little bit that I know about him from what
you've told us, I think he's going to do pretty
good getting help.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, I mean I think he's going to be I
think he's the best. Like but you know, they don't
let moms write an essay about their kids. It's really crazy.
I need to I've got a friend in admissions. I
should talk to her about adding that to applications like
where's the mom testimonial section?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
And so. Following up on Kevin's point, unless you had
something else to say about.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
It, no, I mean, I've got lots else to say,
but I'll let you have to turn.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Okay. Only one Democratic president in my lifetime, and I
think he's the only one in Kevin's lifetime too, has
specifically proposed a tax increase for the purpose of reducing
the deficit for the debt. That was Bill Clinton nineteen
(22:02):
ninety three. He remains one of only two Democrats since
World War Two to get re elected, and the only
Democrats in World War Two to get re elected with
more votes for re election than he got for his
first election. That should tell something to our current political
leadership that yes, it comes from right perspective. Reduction of deficit.
(22:27):
Reduction can be a winning issue. You just have to
be sincere about it. You have to be consistent about it,
which is George Brusus the elder's problem perhapses and you
have to push it through which did at did succeed?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Back to our current campaign, we are in a battle
between Kamala Harris and the mainstream media. Who wants more
access to Kamala Harris And apparently there are a lot
of people saying she needs to do a sit down
interview or give a press conference. Agree, disagree? Dojay, I'll
let you go first.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I would disagree in the short term. I agree in
the medium term, probably a good idea to have at
least by October, some kind of like six I would say,
sixty minutes deal. I think that would be of greater
value than a press conference. Press conferences are not what
they used to be. It's just various reporters shouting something
(23:26):
that is interesting to them and maybe if you can
hear them, they might be interested. But politicians don't get
answers at press conferences anymore. They give little sound bites.
It's you know, it's almost as bad as debates in
a minute, but you know, a sit down interview with
sixty minutes or something is a chance for miss Harris
(23:46):
to expound on what she would do, what she thinks.
You know, where she and President Biden go in the
same direction, where they make different directions, just how much
of a debilitation Donald Trump's second term would be, and
those kinds of things. I think that would be better
for her, and I think it would be better for us
as voters than a press conference with a bunch of
(24:08):
reporters looking to figure out what their next headline is
and a politician who will be immediately on the defensive
wondering how can I make sure that there's nothing that
my opponents can get to me in thirty second bits?
And now is something that I think I can that
can help my campaign in thirty second bits. I don't
think that that's as important as say, that's.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
A down interview, Kevin, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I think this is one of the most overblown issues
in the presidential campaign I've ever heard. It's just silliness,
and the only reason it is an issue is because
the Republicans are desperate to find issues that they can
hold against the Democratic ticket, and they've created this out
of whole cloth. And I have to say that the
media has helped them by adding to the drum beat
(24:52):
of when is she going to do a press conference,
When is she going to do an interview? She's going
to do it.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
She's going to do it.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
When they started asking this, Joe Biden had just stepped
aside and kind of anointed her as his heir apparent.
Like two or three weeks earlier. She was preparing, she
was doing campaign events, she was creating an entire campaign,
including hiring staff, and she was preparing for the DNC.
(25:18):
She didn't get around to it yet. But she's going
to do it, and she's not going to fall apart.
People seem to think, oh, she's afraid to speak to
the press, Are you crazy? The woman is fine talking.
She had one inopportune moment in an interview with Lesterholt
where he asked her about going to the southern border,
(25:40):
and she said, no, I've never been to the southern border.
I've also never been to Europe, which, by the way,
I don't think it was that bad an idea to say,
but they blew that into oh, what a dumb thing
to say. I don't know why, but I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Well, because I think it was within the first six
months of the administration. She hasn't been to the southern
border or Europe in that sixth month period, but it
was all it could still happen. It was like, yeah,
I haven't been there yet.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And you don't have to get in the southern border
to discuss the immigration problem. Ninety nine percent of the
people in this country have never been to the southern border,
and yet they have a lot of opinions about how
to fix immigration. By the way, I looked it up today,
and if my research is correct, Ronald Reagan never went
to the southern border, So anyways, I think it's overblown.
(26:27):
She's going to do it. By the way, DJ I
was trying to think of who the right organization, the
right interviewer was for her to do her first sit down.
I think you're right. Sixty minutes is the perfect place
because they will not ask gotcha questions and it will
have the level of gravitas that you want, but yet
it will be more than just policy questions. She's going
(26:50):
to do fine, and then they'll make some other ridiculous
issue out of whole cloth.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
See, I was thinking it should be Katie currukh one question,
what do you read? That's it? I like it, don't
make it harder than it has to be. And we're
coming up on a debate, and I think this is
actually probably something she's trying to put off until after
(27:16):
the debate, because you know, staggering your primetime appearances makes
a lot of sense if you're trying to stay in
the conversation, you want to ride the different news cycles.
But today Trump was whining it's not the right word,
haranguing about the upcoming September tenth debate, commenting that he
(27:37):
doesn't like the rules that they're proposing for this now.
And then there was a statement out of the Harris
campaign saying we want there to be live mics through
the entire debate. His staff wants the mute button because
apparently they don't think he can behave himself for ninety minutes.
DJ and I believe that there will not be a debate, Kevin,
(27:59):
would you like to debate us on the debate debate?
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I'm not going to debate you. I believe there will
be a debate on September tenth, or if not that date,
there will be a debate in September and I'm just
surprised that you guys actually believe there isn't going to
be a debate. But of course I could be wrong.
Time will tell.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
He's got Tulsi Gabbard helping him with debate prep.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I actually think that's a good choice. I heard some
moderators today making fun of it. I think she's as
good a choice as anyone.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Tulsi may be a complete what job as a politician,
but she's not a bad debater. So and you know,
in terms of skill sets, Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
You think Donald Trump is going to take advice from
a woman.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I think Donald Trump will take advice from the men
in the room who agree with the woman.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Maybe right.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And I think Tulsi can I think Gabard can convince
probably a number of deaths. Again, I did this with
the first debate with Joe Biden. Clearly Donald Trump was
much more confident about facing off with Joe Biden, and
we can all understand why. But I still don't think.
I'm not going to believe there's a debate until Donald
Trump actually begins talking in that studio office. I've ever
(29:05):
don because there is even now, Debates don't help him.
Debates have never helped him.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
In fact, and he has a lot more to lose
in this particular debate than Kamala Harris does.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
First of all, I think that the reason that there's
going to be a debate is not because Donald Trump
needed I think Donald Trump does need it. He needs
it because he needs one more big moment in this
campaign to blunt the Harris momentum and to hopefully create
a moment that they can say, oh, look, she made
a big error. She's not ready for the presidency. But
(29:39):
I just want to address this hot mike question for
a second. A lot of people today think that the
reason that the issue came up is that Trump is
getting cold feet over having a hot mic because his
people don't believe that he can contain himself on a
hot mic. I don't think that that's what they're worried about.
I think the reason they don't want a hot mic
(29:59):
is because they don't want Kamala Harris to be able
to interrogate him during his answers. They don't want Kamala
Harris to be able to play moderator because she is
damn good at that. And I think that's the reason
they want the mute button.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
There Oh, so they're afraid of the Kamala Harris, the
interrogated Jeff Sessions, that interrogated Brett Havanaugh, that prosecuted criminal
cases coming out and asking him follow up questions, and
that an.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Open mic plays to that strength that allows her to
do it well.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
It also it opens up the opportunity for I'm speaking
to happen, which that was the first steamroller to leave
tracks on Mike Pence in that campaign. He never did
come back.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
From that that no fly.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yes, yeah, I have a T shirt that says I'm speaking.
But there is still the congressional map is still very
much in question. There are state and local elections happening
all over the place. What do you think, DJ, what
do you prognosticate when we talk about the House in
the Senate? Any optimism?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yes? Actually I have never thought the Republicans would keep
the House after the incredible ship show that was twenty
twenty three.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You mean ousting speakers and Marjorie Taylor Green making fun
of people's eyelashes, and Georgia Cromer and George Santos.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, all that kind of stuff. That's that's sort of
an undercurrent, but especially now with Harris sort of running
as the you know, you know, we're not going back
to the chaos. We're not coming back to the crazy.
The House GOP has been all crazy all the time,
and I think voters are going to reject that. You
have to remember the Republicans got a narrow nine seat
(31:54):
a nine seat gap, a nine seat majority, despite winning
the popular vote by more than three point. They have
the reverse problem that Democratic nominees for president do, and
that if the popular vote is even, that means Republicans
are in a minority in the House. And I don't
think the Boblar vote would be even. I think Democrats
(32:14):
will narrowly be ahead of the popular vote and that
will be enough to give them a majority. On the
Senate side. I've always assumed that forty eight was the
Democratic four. For a while I thought forty eight it
was also the Democratic ceiling. But both Sharra Brown and
John Tester have been getting fairly decent polling numbers. Brown
in particular looks like he will probably hold the seat
(32:36):
in Ohio. There are various polls that show Tester behind,
their various public show Tester ahead. It's Montana. It will
always come down to the wire. It always has. But
that's a pretty good position for Democrats to be in
considering the twenty twenty four map. So if they can
come in, you know, obviously they come in fifty to
fifty with a Harris victory, they can maintain center control.
(32:59):
But even if they come in at a mere fifty
one to forty nine, that Republican majority in the Senate
is not really going to be able to do much.
Lisa Murkowski is not going to be is not going
to join in on their cultural war nonsense. She's there
till twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Langford actually isn't up for reelection this cycle, so he's
potentially an ally on continued common sense imtegration reform. I mean,
you know, it gets it, that gets us into It's
still a Republican majority does slow up and hold up
judicial appointments because Mitch McConnell broke that irreparably.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
A Republican majority will will have will cause some problems
for a Harris administration, no doubt, and certainly when it
comes to the judicial mnage. I don't see Susan Collins
and Lisa Murkowski waging the equivalent of the equivalent of
a Holy War on Kamala Harris's cabinet. I don't think
(33:55):
they're going to try it. They're Noah, I don't think
they'll do to stop all the cabinet nominations. They may
pick off one or two that are week because that always,
you know, there's always a mistake made. But if Democrats
can come in with forty nine, that'll be a very
good position for Kamala Harris as president, and they could
(34:16):
in theory even give a real, God help us a
Trump's second term if they have a Democratic House majority
alone with them, They're not going to stop a lot
of what Donald Trump has done, but they can slow
it down a little, and that could mean something. If
we're in worst case scenarios and god knows what else
and everything else, it could mean something. But again, no
(34:39):
matter what happens, the Democrats are Democrats are flipping back
the House. I've always said that, I still say it,
and yeah, I feel much better about the Senate than
I did two weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Kevin, what do you think.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
I want to build on what DJ said as I
often try to. You mentioned Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins,
and they're also a buffer for the Harris a Harris
administration on abortion rights. Because if there's a forty nine
to fifty one Republican Senate and the new Senate majority
(35:12):
leader thinks about changing or doing away with the filibuster
the sixty vote threshold, you add Lisa Mkowski and Susan
Collins to forty nine on the Democratic side, and there's
enough votes there to get a House passed twenty four
(35:32):
week Row versus Wade style piece of legislation to President
Harris's desk. So they could be, as you said, they
could be the Joe Manchins of the next of the
next Senate.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Well, let's pivot a little bit too the abortion question.
They're actually almost a dozen states with abortion measures on
the ballot. In most cases it's to affirm a right
to abortion. Actually, I believe in Nebraska there's one of each.
So voters are going to have to pick whether they
want to affirm it or uphold a ban. And do
you think this moves the needle on turnout? We're looking
(36:09):
at Arizona, Nevada, and Nebraska, among others. You know, a
highly motivated pro choice base in Arizona could be the
game that Kamala Harris needs the you know, the Steph
Curry three pointer at the end of the game against France.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
It's a one word answer, yes.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
And the evidence for it is in Kansas, which you
had a ref which had a referend.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Oh, I have had one as well.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
But in Kansas, the referendum passed and the Democrats held
the governorship and held the war, and actually I think
flipped the congressional seat. They flipped it or they held
one that they flipped earlier, and I don't know if
that happens without that referendum sort of galvanized the Democratic Party.
One referendum that you didn't mention that I think will
(36:57):
help the Democrats a lot more is the Florida abortion referendum,
because we still don't know how Donald Trump, the Florida resident,
will vote on it. Person never tell, but it's but
you know, jd. Vance is already trying to sit is
already trying to say that Trump will will actually veto
(37:17):
national abortion ban, and that's got a bunch of the
pro life based furious Adam. He will have to try
to walk that back over the next two to three weeks,
and then we'll get the rest of the country furious
at them, at him, and it will be this sort
of ping pong that goes back and forth between who
does Donald Trump take off on this or that various day,
and as he tries to sort out what leave it
(37:39):
to the States means, he's going to get reminded over
and over again that Stephen Douglas actually finished last in
the eighteen sixty election.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
His rant about everyone all legal scholars wanted it returned
to the states. Democrats, Republicans want it return to states.
That is nonsense. It is absolute for nonsense. You've got
like Laura Ingraham going, I don't think that women understand that,
you know, it's for the states to decide. I'm like, no,
women understand perfectly, Laura. We don't want the states to decide.
(38:10):
We want women to decide for themselves without input from
the states, and them trying to say abortion isn't banned.
It is banned. If you live in Texas, it's banned.
If you live in South Dakota or North Dakota, it's banned.
You know, geography should not be destiny in this country
unless you're talking about weather and there. I'm so annoyed
(38:33):
with the flagrancy of the lies and the bad faith
arguing that they're all doing. And you know, if punching
people in the throat was legal, maybe I'd be less stressed.
All right, let's let's let's let's take a little walk
down memory lane. We've all lived through well, definitely more
than one presidential campaign. Maybe we don't need to cite
(38:54):
numbers here, No, I don't need to admit too much.
But you know, we've all observed these from from different
person inspectives. Which ones do you remember the best? Which
ones make you smile when you think about them? Kevin,
I'll let you go first, because I think you've got
some good answers here.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Well, I certainly probably remember the most of them, just
because I'm somewhat older than you guys. The Jimmy Carter
nineteen seventy six to one was a highlight for me.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Oh, I've voted in that election for Jimmy Carter.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Yeah, my mother let me pull the lever. I was three. Wow.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
The Jimmy Carter nineteen eighty election, where he lost to
Ronald Reagan, was a big disappointment to me. I was
also disappointed in Michael Ducaccus losing. I don't think I
thought he had a chance but I was still disappointed.
Obviously Obama everybody cried that night. Yeah, I have so
(39:51):
many individual memories of elections, there's no one. I mean,
Obama would be hard to top, although we're going to
top it this year if Harris gets elected. And of
course the disappointment of twenty sixteen. So I too many
disappointments and a couple of real standouts.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
DJ, how about you keeping it stipulating again? Duja was
a Republican for a long time, so his nostalgia is
going to be a different flavor than ours, but it
is no less valid.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Sure it is, and probably for me, the actually would
be the first one I really paid the mostention, which
was nineteen eighty eight, not only because the candidate I
preferred won, but because it was it well, it's I
think it still is the largest, the largest comeback from
a poll deficit in history. I mean, George Bushielder really
(40:44):
was trailing by seventeen points in the polls and he
managed to pull all the way back from that. And
then some people don't look back at nineteen eighty eight
as a memorable campaign because you had the Reagan campaigns
prior you had you know, you had it was bookended
by two very persuasive politicians getting elected. But the nineteen
(41:05):
eighty eight campaign had some drama and it had some
excitement that a lot of campaigns since then haven't had.
I mean, nineteen ninety six was basically the nothing happened campaign.
Bill Clinton was ahead in January, and he basically stayed
ahead by a bunch all the way through and almost
nothing happened.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
You know, I actually had to think who Bill Clinton
was running against in ninety six, and there we got
and it was Bob Dole, not a minor figure.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
No one forgets Bob Dole.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, well, there we go. It was quite a story,
and it was really you know, for the first one,
it was the first one I really paid attention to.
It was quite dramatic and exciting. I think the other one,
I think the one that was the most the one
that had the most impact on me, would have actually
been twenty twelve with where Robney lost, because for me,
(41:56):
for one, it was the American is the first American
version of the polls really messing up, particularly at the
national level. And Gallup still doesn't do presidential horse race
elections because it got twenty twelve so badly wrong, And
it was really my first recognition that the little universe
(42:21):
of which I was a part. I knew it wasn't
all of America, but I presumed it was a majority
of them, and I had to sit up and accept
the fact that it wasn't a majority, that it wasn't
really an American majority anymore. That was the one that
really forced me to do a lot more soul searching
than any others either forces Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
It was Obama And I'll tell you why I had
a baby in January of two thousand and eight, and
everything about that election suddenly about someone other than me.
And you don't forget your first election as a mother
and what it means. So that's my story answer. And
now I've got to think about the to college because
(43:01):
of that self same baby. We're all smart enough. We
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the Internet. So thank you for listening. If you enjoy
what we do here, please follow our Instagram at MPU
Fanclub or our substack page, where I swear to God
(43:23):
we will all write something very very soon, and don't
forget to share our link on your social media timelines
so everyone you've ever met can find us and DJ,
you'll start doing TikTok dances if we get really popular.
DJ didn't know that he was that I just made
it up. But we'll get on that, I promise. And
thanks as always to Alan Keni for our theme music.
(43:51):
And as we head into the beginning of September, what
are you most looking forward to for fall? DJ? Any
good cons coming up, long songwriting marathons.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
No, I'm actually looking I'm looking forward to the resumption
of the NFL season. I'm looking forward to football.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I was gonna say, see, you're looking forward to seeing
your team loose. That's fun for you. Take it back.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
I know it's it's not going to be particularly get
your Giants, but that's okay. It'll be just it'll be
just going to see football again. And it will be
good to see the Yankees in the playoffs for sure.
That will happen.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
All right, Kevin, how about you? Any any top top
plans for fall?
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Well, not to be not to be morose, but I've
had to stay very close to home all summer long.
Because of some health and medical treatments that I've been
getting locally. So I'm looking forward to that coming to
an end on September tenth, so Jessica and I can
start traveling again. And we don't know exactly where we're going,
but we will be doing some traveling in the fall
(44:51):
and winter.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
I think you should go to places like Bora, Bora
and Fiji, and.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
I'm just reading about those today.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, that's go write yourself a cabana and a hammock
and like you can just can drink things out of
coconut shells. It'll be great.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
A great place to watch the election
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Really, yeah, if I just stay there if they go badly,
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