Commentary Track: Fantastic Four (2005)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome friends, come podcast podcasting. Don show Jacky again, Bryan.
They're talking about moming podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
By exposure to a high energy cosmic storm could advance
our knowledge about planetary life to our future.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
I don't trust him. We got what we wanted and
just worried about what he wants.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
The cloud is fundamentally altered, Ardienna, Come on, am the
only guy who thinks this is cool?

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Victor, you always thought you were a god.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Let's not fight. No, let's don't even think about it.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
You never do. Fantastic Four the theaters. Welcome to a
movie film commentary track. My name is Zaki has Son.
I'm here with Brian Hall.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Hey. How's it going to zechi?

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Uh? I'm I'm doing very well. I was wondering if
you were a member of the Fantastic Four, what would
your superhero name be?

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Hmm maybe uh just with the literation bouncing Brian or
something like. I was like, there, I did find it
kind of amusing. I know this is a classic tale,
classic characters, but it's funny that they got hit with
the same thing. But they have these really disparate powers.
You know, It's like I can stretch and you know,

(01:29):
like I'm invisible. I'm a rock guy, you know, and
so I like, I just off the top of my head,
I'm like, maybe I turn into a bouncing ball and
I can bounce down the street sure like.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
A super Bowl that you'd get from the from from
those vending.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Machines exactly, and I'd be like, gotta bounce and bouncing, Brian,
I like it. What about you?

Speaker 3 (01:45):
I don't. I haven't thought that far ahead. I just
came up with this question on the fly. I was
hoping to put you on the spot. But I'll be honest,
I did not expect you to answer so quickly and
so effectively, So that's on me.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Maybe like zip away, Zachy, and like you're like really fast.
So your power has to be.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Something that relates to your name in terms of the
what do you call it?

Speaker 1 (02:09):
If I ruled the world, it would But I can
kind of see it, you know. You're just like you know,
it's like, hey, I want to go get ice cream.
Like if you can keep up, zach ez, you know,
zips down.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
You're not describing Fantastic Four characters. You're describing garbage, pale kids.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Right, that's true. I thought it. Something is very not PC,
so I'm trying to think, like I'm trying to scale
it back. Whatever, we continue, we got a commentary to do.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
We do so, you know, there is a brand new
Fantastic Four movie that is due to hit theaters as
we record this, and we thought, you know, the timing
is somewhat apropos because it is almost exactly twenty years
after the release of I was gonna say the previous
but that's right, two Fantastic fours ago.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Wait a minute, so, but the other one was twenty fifteen, right,
so that's ten years twenty ten. Then here we go.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Wow. Yeah, of course they're gonna They're gonna keep trying
until they get it right. Maybe maybe this will be
the one. I guess we'll find out. Yeah, but yes,
the two thousand and five Fantastic Four movie kind of
a fascinating time capsule.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, it really is, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (03:23):
And I expect that'll be the thrust of our discussion today.
As we talked through it. We are watching the theatrical cut.
There is an extended cut.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, I look forward to getting into that. It's kind
of fascinating actually, and there's different cuts around the world apparently.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I know the extended cut,
and it is hard to find readily, So otherwise I
would have been like, all, let's watch that one, because
I hear that's better. But no, we're doing the one hour,
forty five minute, one mm drik by Tim's story and
starring a cast of well of four the Fantastic four.

(04:00):
Uh and and we'll see where the conversation takes us.
So you know, folks, if you want to watch along
with us, feel free to do that. If not, Brian
and I will try to keep our conversation engaging enough
to pull you in. You ready, flame on's I understood
that reference. So we'll do the here's the thing, we'll
hit play on three one two three play so one

(04:20):
two three play?

Speaker 1 (04:29):
You know what's funny? By the way, I haven't watched
this movie. I think probably since it came out okay,
in the theater, maybe I don't know something somewhere around
there though, Yeah, and you know it. Look it's it's
uh a little light.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Putting it delicately.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Wait I describe it. But I didn't have a bad time,
you know, I I don't know. Well, okay, let's let's
let's go what's what's your take on this movie?

Speaker 3 (04:56):
No, well, I I don't I don't think it's good,
but I don't think it's necessarily I didn't hate it.
You know, it's it's so disposable. I mean, it is
kind of like in your in one eyeball out the other.
I give it up to the cast, honestly. I think
I think for the most part, the lead five actors,
some more than others, but they all they all know

(05:18):
the assignment, you know.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, you know this feels kind of like for a
younger audience.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yes, I would agree with that, right, it's uh.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Not just you know, the action isn't very intense, not
in a bad way. It just feels less intense than
even I remember the X Men movies being which came
before this, And uh, the way that they talk to
one another feels a little bit closer to sort of
like a kid's movie, right, you know, like but if
you do that, you know, you'll make me upset, you know,

(05:53):
Like it's just like they're being very literal in the
way that they communicate to one another and in their exposition,
and it just it just feels a little young.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah. Well, and and I think it also it feels
I mean, you tell me, I got very you know,
WPWR Saturday Afternoon vibe from this, which is sort of
a recurring observation we've had.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
I know, but it's so I know, it's very specific
and regional, but it's so spot on.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yeah, it's very like syndicated TV. And you realize, well,
this thing has a budget of like eighty eight million dollars,
which is amusing to me given how much money gets
tossed down the pipe for superhero movies these days. Yeah,
so I kind of admire that they're like, you know,

(06:41):
let's just keep it, let's keep it affordable. Yeah, I
just wish here's my thought. I think that Tim's story
the director is good with like the character stuff, like
in terms of, you know, the conversations, but I don't
think he's able to give this movie the scale that

(07:02):
it needs.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
I agree. I think the final battle on Madison Avenue, yeah,
looks pretty good. But there were moments watching this where
I did think, oh, this kind of feels like a
TV show or something like, it doesn't feel quite like yeah,
like you say, like epic, like an epic film. Yeah,

(07:25):
I don't know, even just watching this now, like yeah.
It just kind of reminds me of like this is
a I don't know, like a PG rated superhero movie
or something. Just the way. Yeah, ironically the second.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
The second one was rated PG. This was PG three,
the second one was PG.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, And not that that's good or bad, It's just
that is what the tone felt like me.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Well, and I think, by the way, I should mention
I remember watching this opening Weekend with with Amina back
when it came out, and I remember there was a
guy sitting next to as a young probably a teenager,
early twenties, and literally from from when when Jessica albat
right there, uh, when she you know, when we cut
to her, he goes, damn. We laughed, and then and

(08:07):
then he kept doing that the I'm not playing the
entire movie right every so much so that at the
after the movie ended and we walked out and he
kind of walked out behind us, are separately, and at
some point we locked eyes and he goes, I'm sorry man,

(08:29):
like he was. He was so enthrall to Jessica Alba,
and I have to say I get it, oh absolutely,
you know.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
I I I wish I had been there when he
saw Sin City, because I would just imagine he turned
into like a ball of light and just ceased to exist.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Another like that in that one episode of South Park
where they don't have the internet, you know.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
What, we wouldn't do see I'm on the PG wavelength
after this. Yeah yeah, oh man, Well no, I'm glad
I wasn't at that screening. But yeah, so she There's
just so much to talk about. I mean, really just
going back in time a little bit. I mean, jessic Aalba,
she was, she was on that Dark Angel, the show

(09:19):
on Fox. And didn't that come from James Cameron.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
James Cameron.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
That was kind of an exciting thing and an exciting
prospect that James Cameron was going to do a TV show.
And I think I maybe watched one. I was like, oh, yeah,
I don't remember if it was good or bad, but
I remember thinking I was expecting like cinema on TV
or something, and it was, oh, this is just a
Fox show. You know what else is interesting is that

(09:45):
placing this in time. So in two thousand and five,
when this came out, we got Electra and Batman begins.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
So it's sort of like the past, the middle in
the future all had it right once here.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
I remember watching Electra with you the early part of
the that this year, and the movie was what it was.
But I remember they had the first teaser for.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
This Oh okay, okay, yeah, I thought you were going
to tell the story where basically I worked on Electra. Yes,
And it was a real interesting lesson where I was
an intern at this company and I read the script.
Someone gave me the script to read and I went, ugh,
I'm not sure. I'm not sure this is good. And anyway,

(10:33):
so then I get a job on the movie and
you start working there and you meet Jennifer Garner and
you're in a stage and there's green screen and Ninja's
flying around and the director is like, hey, would you
like to see an early cut and give your opinion?
And you're like yeah, And so then you start giving
your opinion and you become immersed in it, and then
you can have this thing happen where you're like, well,

(10:55):
it's not that bad, Like it's actually I think it's
like kind of good. You know, a lot of work.
When into this, you get really invested in it, you know, personally. Yeah,
And then it was funny because then I went and
saw it with you and some of our other friends,
and I'm Rember being like, it's not that bad, guys,
I think you might kind of enjoy this. And then
I remember coming out of the theater and you just
shaking your head no at me.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
I put my hand on your shoulder.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
But it was interesting. It made me appreciate how what
that experience can be like when you are involved in something,
attached to something, yeah, and the experience you can have
with it.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
And and you know, nobody nobody necessarily sets out to
make a bad movie or no, of course not.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
And everybody working on that was, you know, a good
person and trying their best, you know, And I don't.
I don't remember it, honestly, I haven't seen it since
that screening that you and I saw, But whatever it was,
it just did well.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
And then they did you the courtesy of forgetting to
put your name in the credits, which.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Which leads to an amazing story, because you were interviewing
Joe Johnston, yes, for Hidalgo, and you for some reason
that anecdote came up about me.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
I had nailed him with questions and yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, and then about me not getting credited in Electra
and then didn't he say something like, well, sometimes maybe
it's for the best.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, Oh, I forgot hold on, I forgot to say
damn right.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Oh, yes, she gets like a real sort of supermodel
shot of her walking in painted on the superhero suit. Yeah. Well,
by the way, I did want to call out there's
a scene where we're introduced to Chris Evans. You know,
he's a cool guy on a motorcycle kissing the girl
in a in a convertible while they're driving side by side.

(12:35):
And I noticed that every shot with the motorcycle, the
motorcycle like slips on the gravel, and then there's like
this exterior where it's like rude, He's like approaching the
building and it slips in the gravel, and it's like, damn,
that must have been a really dangerous road if the
only footage they had was the motorcycle like clipping.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
Oh, how funny. Yeah, So at this time, Michael Chickliss
and Julian McMahon, the late Julian McMahon, should say, we're
both in the Fox family. Specifically, they were in the
FX family because they were both headlining some very popular
FX shows at the moment. So the shield, right, the

(13:14):
shield was Michael Chickliss, who he had won an Emmy
for playing Big Mackey on that show. And of course
Julian McMahon was Christian Troy on Nip Tuck And so
what imagines that this was part of the way they
were able to keep costs low was, you know, you
get well regarded TV actors and so their asking price
is going to be a little bit lower. Robert Downey

(13:37):
was one of the people who auditioned for Doctor Doom. Wow,
So you know, time truly is a flat circle.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, I have.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
To say, Julian McMahon plays a version of Doctor Doom
that has no connection to any version of the character
that I know from the comic books.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
See, this is what I'm looking forward to. I want
to in reading about this a little bit, I just
saw how some people were disappointed on some takes in
this film, so I'm curious to get to the bottom
of it with you.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
So, yeah, you know, but that's the thing, because I
have always liked Julian McMahon in these movies. I think
I think he's a great villain. You know, It's just
he's just not playing a version of Doctor Doom. I'm
familiar with you know, and the guy, I mean, the
guy is just charismatic, you know. Yeah, I really dislike

(14:31):
what they give him to do because they turn him
into a low rent Norman Osborne in this movie.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah yeah right.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
I mean down to playing most of the same beats, yeah,
which is really baffling because I'm like, you've got a
really interesting character, right what you can make him a
washed up corporate guy, or you can make him the
dictator of a country. What's different? What's more interesting? You know?
So weird?

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Right, yeah, you know, and I I feel like I
wish he had at least been pushed a little bit
more in the direction I agree, because I think he
is playing it kind of straight and yes, maybe more

(15:16):
realistic than what this movie is doing everywhere else.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, yeah, like hamming it up just by a few
more degrees might have made him pop a little bit
more for me in this.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Well, I think I think that's that's a reflection of
the scenario where they put him in, right when you
make him, when you make him a corporate guy, that's
sort of inherently less theatrical. Sure, you know, that is
just my opinion, and I guess that thesis will be tested,
you know, whenever this Avengers Doomsday comes out and we

(15:51):
see that version of doctor Doom.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Well for for Nubes or Normies or whatever you want
to call it, Like me, can you tell me who
Doctor Doom is exactly in the comics, I mean, what
is his role, origin whatever? So so? In the comic.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Books, he he is a former classmate of Reid Richards,
who essentially he was he was using scientific experiments to
what we find out in the backstory wise, his mother's
soul is imprisoned in limbo or what have you, and
he was trying to use scientific advancement to try to

(16:27):
contact her. But he he he miscalculated, and a resulting
explosion left him scarred. And and before before that happened,
Read Richards is like, hey, man, like I checked your figures.
They're like they're they're off. You know, you shouldn't do this,
and he's like, get out. I know more than you.
And then the explosion happens, and because his ego can't contemplate
him being wrong, he blames read Richards for what happened

(16:48):
to him, and thus a lifelong enmity is born. I
like it. Yeah, And and as this is this was
an interesting thing where where where Jack Kirby and Stanley disagreed.
And Jack Kirby his view was like, the explosion left
him mostly fine, but it gave him like a little scar.
But because his ego is so fragile, he's like, I

(17:08):
have to hide my whole face because of the scar,
whereas Stanley was like, no, his face has got to
be really jacked up. And so I think it was
later John Byrne, who had a run on Fantastic for
in the eighties. He basically said, like, the explosion left
him with a little scar, it wasn't a big deal.
And then he created this armor and the face plate
was too hot when he put it on his face,

(17:28):
so he really did end up screwing up his face.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
There you go.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
I'm like, look at that.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, yeah, cut.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
The baby in half, you know. And so, like I said,
I mean, doctor Doom is this great over the top
theatrical villain. He started out as an FF villain, but
he ended up becoming kind of Marvel at large. You know,
a spider man, you name it iron Man, and so
he's truly iconic. And I think that whoever Julian McMahon

(17:59):
is playing, I don't. I don't see the Doctor Doom
that I know. Even when we get him in the
in the the the costume or the armor at the
end of the movie, it doesn't it doesn't feel like
the Doctor Doom. I know. Sure, I appreciate the shorthand
of like, let's just get him on the the as
part of the same incident that creates the fantastic form.
But Doctor Doom doesn't have powers in the comics. He's

(18:21):
not like a mutant or anything.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
So oh really, so he can't manipulate anything or.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yeah, none of that. He's just a dude in a
suit of armor.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, okay, okay, right, and.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
And that's you know that like to me, you know,
in this movie, it's very like you know, oh read,
you're always stretching, you know, and I feel like nobody
sees me or whatever.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
You know. It's right, right, do I have to lift
everything for everyone around here?

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Know what I mean? Yeah, I'm the rock of this group,
you know, whatever it is. It's it's like I get
it because to your point, like, well, you've all went
through the same thing, so you have to somehow explain
to the audience why they are all different, you know.

(19:08):
But but that sequence where we see them get their powers,
to me, it just looks a little dopey.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Well, it's funny because there's a lot of iterations of
this that came before, right, a lot of attempts that
never got made, and one of them was I think
it was Chris Columbus who wanted to go back to
sort of the Batman's sixties yes kind of vibe, and
that moment reminds me of something like kitchy. Yeah, you know,

(19:35):
like I can almost hear like the Loss in Space
style theme playing, Yeah, you know, where it's like, you know,
four explorers out in space, and then just the way
that they're like sort of freeze framed in these corny
poses as they're being you know, affected.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, that said Michael Chickliss. Michael Chickles is a rock
star in this movie because he he was just like
a fan of the fan pastic four, and as soon
as this movie became a possibility, he's just like, I'm
going to play Ben Grimm. I want to play Ben Grimm.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Well, he's he's perfect and you can feel that, Yeah,
you can tell he's just excited to be there and
he cares about this. It just exudes.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
Yeah, you know, I I think I think the moments
between him and and Johnny are some of the best
parts of the movie.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Ye same, great, great relationship.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
Joan Griffith like, it's I think for the most part,
he looks the part. But I'm just like, I know
he's a better actor than this, and so I just
I wonder, like, is it the American accent that's kind
of holding him back? You know what I mean? Like, yeah,
Like this is my my beef with with these movies
is they're like, oh, Read Richards, what a dork, you know,

(20:47):
and now he's such a loser and whatever, and I'm like,
that was never my conception of Read Richards. My conception
of him was he's like a man of action who's
a genius and he like he's he's at the top
of his.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Game, you know, kind of like a Pedro Pascal type.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Kind of a Pedro Pascal type. One might say, hm,
they should somebody should look into that. And even like
the thing where it's like, oh, we like, oh the
accident like made his hair go gray, I'm like, why, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Was reading that. So in the comics he just has
those gray strips.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
He has great temples because people have that, right, isn't
that weird? Like what a weird thing to Yeah?

Speaker 1 (21:24):
I wonder why see this right here?

Speaker 3 (21:26):
You're out, Norman, Oh you're right.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
I didn't even Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
So I just say the guy who plays Doom's assistant,
that's Hamish link Letter. Who is you know? He's in
The Big Short and he was on the New Adventures
of Old Christine, that show with Julia louey Dreyfus. But
more interestingly currently, he is the voice of Batman in
Batman Cape Crusader, which is a series on Amazon, and

(21:54):
he has a terrific Kevin Conroy esque Batman voice, no perfect,
You would not know it from his from his character here. Yeah,
Maria Manunos.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
I was very surprised to see her, and then it
made me look her up because I thought like, like,
I know her now. I know she has a podcast
and I know she is in before the movie starts.
You know, she has those little bits where she introduces
things and does trips and stuff, And I was like,
where did where did she start? Yeah? Yeah, she was

(22:26):
an entertainment reporter. Yeah yeah. Interesting.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
It was like from a marketing point of you get
why they cast her because basically what you're buying is
free airtime on that show.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, yeah, you got a good point.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
You know, look behind the scenes at my visit to
the set a fantastic for you.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yep, yep. Yeah that's funny, you know, but it's just
on a random personal note, I passed Michael Chickliss often
on the sidewalk in my neighborhood.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah, so random.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, I'll see him with his wife going for walks.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
That's so funny. Next time you see me, she'd be like, hey,
I just did a commentary track for Fantastic four and
we sang your praises. Yeah, yeah, you came out looking
pretty good exactly. Michael Tiklas. I have to say I've
been a fan of his since the nineties because he
was on a show called The commission I remember that,

(23:20):
which I loved that show when when I was a kid,
and and you know, he plays like the commissioner of
like a small town police police outfit, and and uh,
you know when that show ended, there was like a
little bit of a gap there, and uh, he played
Curly in like a Three Stooges movie. Do you remember
that that? Like Mel Gibson produced the oh that was

(23:41):
a TV movie, right, it was like a biopic. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
barely he was on that but then but then he
he shaved his head and and hit the gym to
just reinvent himself as as Vic Mackie on the Shield.
And you know that's I mean, Bro's been working ever since.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
You know, Yeah, yeah, I hear that show is amazing.
I've ever seen it.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
The Shield is fantastic. You have a great show waiting
for you from beginning to end.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
That's yeah, It's like, yeah, that's what I hear. It's
on that level. Yeah, or like yeah, yeah, well.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah, if you haven't seen it, oh, just just you know,
put put that in the queue and get to it
because you're gonna enjoy it. Great.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
I was kind of laughing at this, by the way.
You know, they make Johnny into like an extreme sports
fanatic because that's just such that was the style at
the time.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
He is quite the poochy in this, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
And you know you got this sort of like Blink
one eighty two sounding song here, like you go to
live Ford Tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
You know, like just like this truly is the most
two thousand and five movie that ever two thousand and five.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
It really is.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what what's odd to me
about this is that this is by Fox, and you know,
they had they had the rights to X Men and
this and and Daredevil at the time, and and the
thing of it is is you you had two successful
X Men movies as as somewhat of a template to
build on. And so it's odd to me that that

(25:05):
this movie swings so low you know, hmmm, like like
x Ment the first film, it was also fairly low budget.
I want to say it cost seventy five million dollars
in two thousand.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
And I mean it doesn't look like you know, it
doesn't look like Avatar or something. But there there's a
point of view there that I feel like this movie's lacking.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
And yeah, you know, yeah, I was thinking, like words
kept popping into my head with the other ones, just
like Gravitas or something like, I don't know, like this
one just feels more bouncy and comic bookie and not
quite like the others with what we were doing in
this moment.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
What makes that odd to me? I love this by
the way she drops the I.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Know, it's very like, I don't know, almost like eighties, right,
ski school like kind of a moment.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
I'm just like, does that work when you have like
a hot nurse and you're like, I'm gonna go snowboarding
at five, so i'll see you there at five oh one, right,
and she just shows up.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, yeah, Well and then you end up flying off
a cliff and blowing up into flames and then landing
you've created a hot tub now in the snow and
you're naked. It's like, want to join me? And then
you just see a shot yeah, through her legs with
her sky you know, just dropping her ski equipment.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
Like but to what I was saying, like the Fantastic Four,
which I read fairly regularly, I've got a pretty big
Fantastic Four collection, so I think I have a little
bit of authority on this. They weren't. I mean, there's
comedic elements because oh, you know Ben and Johnny are
bickering again or whatever, but like, it was never comedic.
It wasn't. It wasn't. Oh they're a comical and occasionally

(26:41):
they get into adventures. It's like, no, it's an adventure book.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
See. And that's where someone like me, who's not an
expert on this stuff I hear that a lot from
Marvel fans that they really like the Fantastic Four and
they can't wait for someone to get it right. But
for me, I'm like, I don't understand who they are still, Yeah,
you know, because.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
I a problem because yeah, I've been exposed to them
a few times, but that's what.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
I mean, because they've been so wildly different. You've got
this take, then you've got that twenty fifteen take, and
then of course you got this sort of retro future
Jetson's looking thing coming up. And so I'm just like,
I know everybody likes these guys, but I haven't quite
locked into what it is that everybody likes about them yet. Yeah,
not that I didn't enjoy this for what it was,

(27:26):
I actually did kind of. This is completely easygoing viewing, and.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
There is a little bit of nostalgia involved where you're like, man,
this movie is pretty different twenty years ago.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Probably that too, I think you're right. Yeah, but yeah,
it's it's more than anything. It's just its tone and
it's script just feels like, oh, I wonder, I wonder
what the order was for this, like, because like you said,
it doesn't line up exactly with X Men. It just

(27:58):
kind of feels on its own little island of just
I keep saying, like a kid's film and stuff. But also,
you know, there was a moment where okay, okay, So
for example, with Doctor Doom, yeah, he finally he's like
basically brooding in the corners for a lot of this movie,
and then he finally steps up and does something. And
I was thinking, oh, I wonder, like how much movie

(28:21):
is left? And I clicked on the thing and it
was like twenty minutes. I was like twenty minutes, Like
like what has this movie been?

Speaker 3 (28:30):
That's true?

Speaker 1 (28:31):
You know what I mean? And you know what it
reminded me of. Actually, it made me think of Bradley
Whitford in the movie Billy Madison, where like you don't
really keep following me, like you don't really need a
lot of antagonism In Billy Madison. The joke is like
we just want to see him going through these different
grades of school, right, but we need to be reminded
occasionally that there's someone that isn't happy about it. So

(28:52):
you'll get these random scenes of like Bradley Whitford at
his disk, like we'll destroyed that Billy medicine, you know,
and then he doesn't really do anything until like the
last twenty minutes of the hey pulls a gun out exactly. Yes,
that's kind of true though, and that's kind of what
reminded me of the role that doctor Doom plays in
this one.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well, and one presumes that the extended cut adds a
little bit more more meat to that potentially. I can't.
I saw that version a while ago. I genuinely don't
remember it, so I can't. I just remember one bit
where read Richard's contorts his face to look like Hugh
Jackman his Wolverine, which I thought was.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Isn't it fascinating? Yeah, it's funny Deadpool would take that
and run with it years later.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, it's so weird.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
But yeah, I mean, speaking of the different releases, as
long as you brought it up, I mean, yeah, there
was the extended version, which is extended by twenty minutes.
You're not nothing, And I guess there was a UK version,
a Hong Kong version, of French version, a German version,
and they so there's the scene where Reid and Sue

(30:01):
are talking in front of the Statue of Liberty. That's
what we have in this version, but in Hong Kong
it's a scene of them having that same conversation but
in a planetarium.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yes, that's right.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
It's very random, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
And then there's the Middle East version where Sue is
invisible the whole movie.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
I didn't say anything, but no, but this, I mean,
I guess that one is also in the maybe the
one that's in the director's cut. But in the UK version,
when Reads proposing to Sue, he bends down on one
knee by stretching himself right and making eye contact. But

(30:43):
in Hong Kong release, he gets down on one knee
for real, And it's like, what's so fascinating, isn't it?
All these like why? And I guess in the Hong
Kong version, doctor Doom's voice has been altered.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Okay, so it has.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
A more like eer equality to it when he's in
the arm. Yeah, but in this version we don't have that.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
I kind of wish they would have did that in
this one, to be honest, I think so too.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
I don't I don't know, I don't know why.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Oh so this is the other thing, like this movie
emerged at this weird era where like it finally CG
effects were at a place where you could visualize the
fantastic for right, sure, yep, but they were not yet
good enough to make it look good.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
I kept wondering what my two thousand and five eyes
thought of this, because obviously now it looks like pretty
darn good animation right next to something that is clearly real.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Yeah, I mean it's I mean, I give it credit.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
I give it credit, I give it.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
It's just what you realize with hindsight is it wasn't
quite there yet. And I let me also say this,
and we haven't tested this HYPOTHESI yet because we haven't
seen the new movie. But I don't know that there's
a good way to make read Richards stretchy powers look good.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
It's hard because there's nothing we can like relate it to,
you know. So it just looks like a guy acting
like an animated figure. Yeah, but here, yeah, I mean
the you know, his hand is it just looks a
little rubbery and like what what what something will look
like now an animatic form, you know, like where it

(32:22):
has exactly gotten the extra textures that they're capable to
do now where you see more pores and that's right,
hair follicles and things like that. Yeah, but that's a
good point. This is I mean two thousand and five,
that's when Revenge of the Sith came out, that's right,
you know, and jar Jar Binks was like, it's my mind,

(32:43):
one of the first, not first fully animated characters, but
like lead characters. Right, so all this is like, really, yeah,
you had.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Casper ten years before this, that's true. And then all
you know, when we talk about CG animation, you know,
Michael Chickliss was the adamant that the thing would not
be cgi he would be wearing the suit, and I
have to imagine the first time he wore the suit,
he was like, well, god, damn it. I know, I know,
because that does not look not because the suit looks bad,

(33:12):
but I can't imagine it's pleasant to be wearing that thing.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah. No, I was reading things where it was just
like how hot it was.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, now this, I was thinking about how I don't
think they should have shown this, Like, I don't I
think there was a way to frame this so that
we don't see his hands, because I think our first
look at him should be when he reveals himself to
his fiance.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
What she sees Yes, we're seeing it with her. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
Now my thought is, why does she have that banner
on the out? Like how did she get that there?

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Everything about this character.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Makes no sense, not even a little bit. She is
the worst person in this movie.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
She is one of those people also that you write
because you want certain things to get accomplished, but then
someone reads it and goes, this is not any thing
close to resembling human behavior exactly, So you have to
fix this.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
So she comes out wearing her underwear.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, and I mean not just well yeah, underwear. Yeah,
like like a night like a little sexy nightie.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Like she doesn't exactly even know what's going on, Like
why would she leave go outside? Like she should open
her window and look out. Why.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
This is Laurie Holden, who played Andrea on The Walking Dead.
M and you know that character is pretty awful on
that show too, m M.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
That's unfortunate for her.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
So literally, because I watched The Walking Dead with my
kids and and my third one he's after this whole
plays out, He's like, that's so Andrea, That's funny.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
This, by the way, to your point, this would have
been a great reveal. He's hidden really well in those
shadows exactly, and of course bring her out of the
house if she thinks he's there, but I think she
would probably put on a robe or something something. Right,
it just feels it just and it's funny because I'm
not saying, you know, it's not nice seeing a pretty
woman looking pretty, but it just doesn't feel like real
human behavior was.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Well, all of it, even the way she reacts here, yes,
yes it it he come on, he doesn't look that
horrific for her to run away, like she'd be like
what happened? Or tell me what you know? And then
and then maybe you build up to her being like
I can't you know what I mean, like like.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Have her back away. I couldn't see that, and her
like just unsure, unsteady, like yeah, I'm run even way
with her hands over her head and hysterics. It just
all of it is so.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
And then and then when she shows up on the bridge,
I'm just like, you are the absolute literal worst person
in the world. Yeah's exactly. I think he got the
message already with that you need to tie a bow around.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
It, you know, and then like yeah, yeah, it takes
off her wedding ring. And just places it on the bridge.
It's just I don't know, it's but that's what we're watching,
you know what I mean that I.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Will say, like I I'm not crazy about the way
the thing looks in the sense that I think he
needed the big brow and kind of look a little
bit more like the comic book, you know, But I
I'm I'm impressed by the suit. I mean it's kind
of a cool bit of bit of you know engineering there.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
You know, I was reading somewhere someone was commenting that
this movie, at least where it has has aged better
because of it. You know, if it was this really
early CGI thing, you know, the whole movie, you'd be
looking at something that's it.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
Yeah, because you can because two years before this you
had Ang Lee's Hulk.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah right, and and that movie.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Is is is another kind of a time capsule. But
you know you can't help but look at the Hulk
effect be like, we just weren't ready, Yeah, who weren't
there yet?

Speaker 1 (36:47):
I like this moment, you know, him sitting trying to
help the guy kind of yeah, I kind of forlorn.
Like it's a striking image, you know, this New York
bridge and this mutant looking guy just sitting there sad,
but then steps into helps somebody. Now, some of this
stuff is from the comics, right, like him stopping a truck. Yeah,
something I read, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah. No, in the first issue you have him come
out of the the sewer and like a a truck
comes after him, or it like it comes towards him,
not after him. It was you know, when Jack Kirby
designed the character, initially he described it as being like

(37:28):
dinosaur hide, so more scaly and whatever. And then just
as time went on it it formalized as looking like rocks,
you know, and so that's pretty much what, you know,
what what it settled as I think to me the
design of the suit here, I think they needed to

(37:49):
lean into the rock texture a little more because he
looks like a burn victim.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Kind of interesting, yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
And and again I feel like one of the most
essential parts of the Things design is having this the
prominent brow, and that would have been something very easy
to add to this suit.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Well, and you see it in the action figure that
Johnny says later, Yeah, that's exactly right, Like like the
the design in the in the MCU thing in the
in the MCU movie that's coming out.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
That's to me, that's always what the thing has looked like,
you know.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
I see, so it's a little thing, so any excuse
to get dude.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
It is so funny because because it's so transparent what
they're doing in terms of every opportunity to put Jessica
Alba in her in skimpy, skimpy clothing, you know, yeah, yeah,
And I I couldn't help it be like, did she
know this when she signed on?

Speaker 1 (38:45):
You know, a lot of the things that I read
they were a little bit harder to sort of verify
than other movies, but yeah, I did read somewhere that
this was added after she signed on. Really, and what's
kind of funny about it is you could still have
the playful, slightly sexiness of it where it's like, look,

(39:05):
if you need like you're going invisible, but we can
see your clothes. It's gonna freak everybody out, cheesy. You
have to take your clothes off, so you kind of
see like a bron underwear hanging in the air and
eventually off that she leaves. But of course, because they've
got just scalbus stripping down, they have to have her
like fade in and out right.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yeah, I mean, well not just that, the whole bit
is all I need to sneak through and get to
this cry. I'm like, okay, well, how did Read and
Johnny sneak through? Then?

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Right? Right, right right?

Speaker 3 (39:34):
They didn't have any problem getting They didn't turn invisible
or take their clothes off, you know.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Or they could have like taken off a jacket and
thrown it over her head and sort of like led
her away. You know.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
Now, the thing about this whole this whole sequence here
is like the Fantastic four is big heroical moment. But
I'm like, didn't they kind of cause like most of
this is this all kind of their fault?

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, well I guess it is, right, it's the thing's fault. Yeah,
that's a really good point. This is the least they
can do, you know. I was reading somewhere that this
took five months to film, all told, and it just
reminded me that, like, sometimes you watch these things. I mean,

(40:19):
this is maybe what like a ten minute sequence or
twelve minute sequence in the movie, and it's good, it's impressive,
it's fun, and you get to see everyone use their
powers for the first time. But it's like man making movies. Yeah,
you know, it's not like you just go on there
and blow stuff up and call the day and you'll cut,
you know, like it's meticulous. And there's so I mean,
just like this shot of the fireman hanging off the bridge,

(40:40):
like that was probably really complicated and took a rig
and a bunch of people approving things and getting permits.
And I was reading also that the actors it makes
sense because they're not right next to each other, but
they filmed a lot of this separately, so they'd be
different units happening, and it just, I don't know, it
made me appreciate it. Like a lot of hard work
goes into these things.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
And and and like you said, nobody sets out to
make something that that you know, gets overlooked or whatever.
People try, people try, damn it.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Yeah, but yeah, I guess this was a little bit
of bridge in or something they built in Vancouver.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
So I was going to bring this up. I'm watching
this movie and I'm like, did they shoot this in Vancouver? Really?
You know, there's just you know, uh, there's there's a
great line in Studio sixty on the Sunset Strip that
that Aaron Sorgan show where speaking of Bradley Whitford. They're
supposed to shoot a movie and they can't get the

(41:39):
funding or whatever. And Matthew Perry's like, well it's okay, Well,
well we don't have shoot we can shoot in Vancouver,
and and and Bradley Whitford says something to the effect of, no,
I'm stopping the insanity. Vancouver doesn't even look like Vancouver,
doesn't look like anything. It doesn't even look like Vancouver.
It looks like Boston, California.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
That's good, of course, it's a good line.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Yeah, yeah, you know, And I was I was thinking
about that because I was like, this does not look
like New York and and and that's just kind of
unfortunate to me, because there is something vaguely low budget
about Vancouver. Yeah, and it weirdly comes across no disrespect
to our brothers and sisters in Vancouver, but this is

(42:18):
just something about shooting there that gives you a not
New York vibe. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Yeah, and I do a better job obscuring it than others.
Some it's just yeah, kind of naked.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
Yeah. And I think this movie, unfortunately, when when New
York is such a big part of the identity of
fantastic four. I'm like, you know, it should have it
should have. I mean, it's it's more expensive, but I
don't know it would have made a difference, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
You know it would be hilarious. So now they've saved
the day, and everybody's.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Right right here look at this. Now, this is the
worst person on earth. Now, now think about this. She
shows up here, she's like, oh my god, there's been
a thing. That means she was watching the news. She
rushed over yep, just to take off her ring, not
handed to him, yes, put it on the ground like

(43:05):
a stone cold B word.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
I know. See, this is what what would have been
nice is her showing up and wanting to get close
but still being a little too uncomfortable or unsure or whatever.
I can understand that. Yeah, and then maybe they have
a moment at the end where she's like, I might
need some getting used to this, but thank you for
calling Okay, fine, you know that that's an arc. I
can understand that human behavior. But this, yeah, like you said,

(43:30):
I mean, it couldn't have been easy to get on
this bridge from wherever she was just to face him
after he's saved the day and clearly in pain and
to like take off her wedding ring and be like no, right,
but by the way, beautiful moment him unable to pick
it up.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
That is like, that's some good stuff.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
I was.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
I think I read somewhere that that was like improvised
or thought of on the spot. You know.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
I believe that because because Chickliss came men as a fan,
and that's been Grimm's whole thing, right, He he jokes
to to you know, mask his his sort of self loathing.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
You know, it's heartbreaking and it's so perfectly symbolic.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
I love that too. Where are your ears? So great? No,
but but you know that's that's a very archetypal Marvel character, right,
It's you have this power, but there is some deficiency
that you have to work around. And for Ben Grimm,
it's like he's so strong, he's one of the strongest
people on earth, but he you know, he can't look

(44:34):
at himself in the mirror. You know, Hm, it's great.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Yeah, Well no, what I was gonna say was, so
they've saved the day, and everybody's standing around applouding, and
it would be kind of funny if the four of
them sort of you know, leaned in together, like so
we started this right, like yeah, and nobody knows that.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
No.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Great, like just wave at everybody, Hey, happy to be here.
You know.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
I have to say Chris Evans, Chris Evans is obviously
so great as as Steve Rodgers, right like just you know,
you talk about a character and an actor just merging.
But he's so great as Johnny Storm.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
It's funny that he had two kind of eras, like
he played the cocky jock type and not another teen movie,
you know, and he's doing the same thing kind of
here and I remember it working even back then.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
But yeah, then for him to go into the more
stoic boy scout type of role, yeah, and had that
fit just as well. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
I think that, you know, because he did he did
these movies and then afterwards he did like snow Piercer
and what was that Danny Boyle movie Some Sunlight is
that it's going, oh, sunshine, sunshine, sunshine. Yeah, And I
remember being Oh, I was like, oh no, he's he's

(45:59):
like a good dramatic actor, you know. Yeah. So so
I I was at least somewhat mentally adjusted to the
possibility of him playing Captain America. But I definitely remember
when I first heard him link to Captain America being like,
really right, because I was picturing Johnny Storm.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Yeah, cocky guy, yeah, which is a brilliant twist in
Deadpool and Wolverine. Dude, did we get out of that?

Speaker 3 (46:23):
So funny.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
By the way. So I was looking at the different
like Chris Columbus was attached to this. At one point
Peyton Reid when Onmann was attached, and he Peyton Reid
said he wanted to make a hard day's night with superheroes.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
Yep. I remember reading that, which I'm.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Not entirely sure I understand, but he wanted Paul Walker
for Johnny Storm.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
And I was like, I can see that. I can
totally see that.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
That's pretty good. Actually, I could definitely see that.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
I remember in the in the nineties when Chris Columbus
was attached, he was talking about Dennis Quaid and Meg
Ryan as we ensue, which I could absolutely see that
same in the nineties. You know, see, we're recognizing that
there's there was a very long, fraught history that led
to this movie being released, which you know, this German company,

(47:17):
it's the same people that did never ending story.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Oh, okay, Constantine.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
I think it's Constantine film.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
I'm impressed you even know that.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
I know a bunch of names, but I'm trying to
remember who's responsible for what. Yeah, it's Constantine Films. Yeah, okay.
So they got the rights in like the eighties, and
they were trying to trying to get something made, and
then in the early nineties their option was about to
run out, and so as a hail Mary, they just
put it was like, something has to be in production

(47:50):
by end of ninety two. So in December of ninety two,
cameras rolled on the Roger Korman low budget Fantastic Four movie,
which was shot for one million dollars and it was
and I remember all of this as it was happening,
because it's like, oh, they're filming it, and there's pictures
and stuff, and the whole thing was just just a

(48:10):
dodge to keep the rights. The movie was never meant
to be released. It's amazing right by the way, So
stan Lee as the mailman, that's a that's a character
from the comics Willie Lumpkin. He's a Fantastic four his mailman, huh.
And he looks just like that, so.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Role does he play in the stories.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
He's he just shows up occasionally and delivers mail. You know,
there would be early issues where you would literally have
the mailman would show up and deliver fan mail to
the Fantastic Four, and then the Fantastic Four would read
letters that they got from readers of the comic. Oh, okay,
that's fun. You know, it's like kind of a little
bit there. But so so that movie was shot solely

(48:49):
to keep the rights and then it was just putting
put in a drawer.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Amazing, and and my understanding is the actors weren't aware
of that.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
They were not. They were not, which is pretty shitty. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, so there were pawns and.

Speaker 3 (49:02):
Yeah, and they were out promoting in and I mean
they were appearing at conventions and stuff, you know, and
it was never meant to be released. Like literally, Avia Rod,
who was out of Marvel Films at this point. He
supposedly he bought the negative and just had it destroyed
so that it could never Although the movie exists, you
can find it. I mean, it used to be on YouTube.

(49:22):
I think it's been taken down, but you can. It's
not too hard to find.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Okay, it's probably one of those Star Wars Christmas special things, right.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
And it's not good. It is not good. Yeah, but
the actors, God bless them. I mean they're doing what
they can. You know. Sure there is a I thought
this was just from a couple of weeks. Actually, Rebecca Stobb,
who played Sue Storm in that movie, she posted on
her Instagram about having appeared on Nip Tuck and she says,

(49:51):
I was so fortunate to have worked with the stellar
Julian McMahon on Nip Tuck. In between takes, he told
me he was flying out immediately afterwards to start on
a film. I asked which film. He said, The Fantastic Four. Hmmm.
I then asked which character he was playing. He replied
doctor Doom. An ironic smile lit up my face. I whispered,
I'm the original Sue Storm. He pulled me close and

(50:12):
whispered back. I knew there was something special about you.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Oh, it's really sweet.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
But yeah, that the the movie is is fascinating, you know,
because because it's there's just something so cynical about it,
and yet everybody in it is like, let's put on
a show.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
You know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a documentary wasn't
there about it.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
Yes, it's very good. It's called Doomed.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Yeah, Doomed, the untold story of Roger Corman's The Fantastic Four.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
Yeah, very worth watching if you haven't seen it. Yeah.
But but anyway, that so as soon as they called
action on that movie, the right the option got extended
right now, there you go, you know, and submission accomplished.
So they put that in a drawer. And then at
that point Chris Columbus involved, etcetera. And Columbus is on
board this as a producer, though I can't imagine he

(51:03):
had much much you know, creative involvement, and and it
took another almost ten years to get the movie made,
you know. Yeah, and that is interesting to think about,
right because that era from so from the time the
Quorman movie was shot to the time this movie was released,
superhero cinema was reinvented. Yeah. Right, So you got you

(51:28):
Got Blade in ninety eight, you got X Men in
two thousand, you got Spider Man two thousand and two,
and those are like the three tent poles of what
becomes marvel at the movies. And so this goes going
back to what I was saying before, That's what makes
it very odd to me that they that they look
at the success that Marvel had had with those three
films and then with X two and and they do

(51:51):
something that's so that so lacks ambition, right, Like I
I think I would appreciate this movie more if it
was swinging a little bit higher, like trying to do something.
See I don't mean we're skybeam territory. I just mean
something with a little bit more stakes to it, a
little more drama.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
To it, exactly that. I mean, I would just be curious.
So you have at least, you know, Peyton Reid saying
I want to make a hard day's night with superheroes.
That's a take, yeah, you know. And Chris Columbus, I
think even wanted to make you know, like I was
saying that like more sixties Batman kitchy thing. That's a take.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
I'm very curious what this take was, Like what they
came in and said, well, this is what we're going
to do and what we're watching.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
Now?

Speaker 1 (52:35):
What was that take?

Speaker 3 (52:38):
I mean, I don't think there was one. I think
I think it was it was Fox being like, hey,
you know, I think I think the X Men franchise
just sort of escaped in terms of it became something
that the Fox Hanchos didn't expect.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
Well. And also you have Brian Singer, which you know,
he's got his real world say what you will, Yeah,
I was gonna say, his real world issues that we're
not excusing. But like, he's a very talented filmmaker. He
has a style, he has a frame, a shot. Yeah, well,
and in a really dynamic, interesting way. All his movies
you know, for some are good, some are less good,

(53:16):
but like they're all stylish. He's got a style, and
I think that really elevates the X Men movie.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
Right.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
You know, I'm well on top of all the great
casting and everything else, right, but this one, like we
were talking about, kind of feels like, yeah, an afternoon
syndicated TV show and that doesn't help. And I don't
think the script helps.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
And there's well, there's a lot of factors. And and
one thing I think about is like before this Tim's
story had done.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
You know, Barbershop, yes, and the apparently is what got
him this gig where five oh with with the is
a Jimmy Fallon movie, Yes, and Queen Latifah it was
wait wait, so they saw Taxi, like get that man
the Fantastic for I get Apparently they saw like early
cuts of it and they're like, well, you know, what
do you think of Fantastic Four? And I've never seen Taxi.

(54:07):
I know it's an infamous flop, but I don't know. Yeah,
it just this feels like what people before, maybe you know,
Spider Man and all this stuff made superhero movies legitimized
and mainstream sort of hits. This makes me think of
what like grown ups or critics would think a comic

(54:29):
book movie is inoffensive, like, you know, just no.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
Disrespect to Tim's story, who I think is fine, Like
he did The Blackening a couple of years ago, which
I really liked, but I don't know that he brings
anything to this one or the next one that helps
them stand out.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
You know. Yeah, That's what I'm saying. Like it's just
it's inoffensive is frankly the best word I can think
of with this, Like it kind of fun and inoffensive,
and like that's not enough for it to stand a
part or you know, stand out or be something that
everyone's said, oh you got to go back to that one.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
Here's the thought. Here's the thought.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
I have.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
Okay, so this is two thousand and five. Again, just
three years earlier, you had Spider Man come out, and
granted it's Spider Man, one of the most successful, like
most well known characters on the planet. Yeah, but it
it had the biggest opening weekend of all time.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
Right, Spider Man was the first movie to break one
hundred million, right. And and the thing about that movie
is when you watch it now, it has its flaws,
of course, but it has heart absolutely right, And I
think there's a reason that people go back to that
again and again. And and I don't doubt that there
is nostalgia for for this film and its sequel from

(55:45):
from the kids who watched it, right, But let's be honest,
they're they're not particularly well regarded. Yeah, and and my
only thought is like, why not, why not try for
something like like here's you know what, here's an example.
Three years before this is Spider Man. Three years after
this Iron Man, right, Right, that's actually a better example

(56:08):
because nobody knew Iron Man. Even less people knew Iron
Man than knew the fantastic for it. Right, And that
movie cost, you know, is a little over one hundred
I think, So you know, It wasn't exactly cheap, but
it you know, it made ninety million. It's opening a weekend,
and obviously we know everything that came in its wake.
So in other words, they dug down and really found

(56:31):
the truth in that story.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Yeah, I mean so many strong moments, character moments, moments
of heart, moments of humor.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
Action.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Yeah, And like I said, this at best just feels
like a pretty stock superhero, like, yeah, there's that with
the thing, and they're kind of buzzs and this guy
bruds for a little bit until he does one big
thing at the end and then they saved the day
and you know, it's just it's missing more, you know,
with story, with care, with action.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
That's what leads me to think that that again, the
The X Men movies would have been like this also,
but for some of the folks who who were shepherding it.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
You know, I think Brian Singer at that moment in
time was able to keep the studio at arms length, sure,
and that that probably helped, you know, I think, I mean,
you know, because Fox did Daredevil, which is two years
before this, and that that's actually very comparable to this.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
I would say, Yeah, where it's just it's.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Very of its moment. It has a bunch of needle
drops on the soundtrack.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Yeah, a little darker though.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
It is darker, but it's like phony dark. Because I
watched that movie recently, I'm like, this is trying really hard.
I get like mad films film student energy out of this,
you know.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Yeah, Oh that's interesting. I would be I don't know
if I'll spend the time, but i'd be curious to
rewatch it. My memory is at being gritty, but I
I completely without you. Have you even seen it since
two thousand and three or whatever it is, I know
exactly what you're talking about where it's like I am gritty,

(58:08):
you know, it declares. I just remember that moment with
what's his name bullseye Yes and he's on the airplane
and he kills that old woman. Yeah that's right, flicking
a peanut in her throat, and I remember being like, damn,
like geez okay.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Yeah, it's dark, but it's okay because the movie establishes
that she's kind of racist.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Oh does it say yeah?

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Because she's like in my daughter and her kid is
a mulatto or something.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Isn't it like a funny trick where it's like just
to have someone say like one offensive thing and it's like, oh, well,
you can kill him. That's what I thought in the
recent Jurassic Park movie was happening when they introduced that
boyfriend and he.

Speaker 3 (58:53):
Yes, that's right. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
He literally steals candy from a baby, like out of
the baby sister's hand. Oh well, he's gonna be the
first to be eaten.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
So it's even more impressive that they actually made you
care about that character. Yeah, that's the harder trick. Oh
gotta get jessicaal. I'm actually surprised we didn't see the
invisibility happen a little slower there ain't.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Yeah exactly. Oh sorry, damn, you say it to the
sky wherever he is in his honor. But you know
what I mean when I said the word earlier, I
mean that, but also just like om in specificity, also

(59:35):
with just like actually i'm looking at it. I say
that because I'm looking at Ben squeeze those oranges and
he's going to bite his fork. And it's kind of
fun seeing them deal with their problems. Yeah right, you know,
And so it'd be interesting then to have more high
jinks or things where they have to kind of step
up and become heroic but really play into the their

(59:57):
specific issues or benefit. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
And again I think the the stuff where where Ben
and Johnny are, you know, feuding with each other. That's
all very funny. The thing where he you know, he
slaps the the shaving cream on his face and it's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
Like all that, And and I understand the impetus of like, well,
unlike The X Men, which is a school, you know,
this is a family and what is that?

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
I think the other thing, which we sort of talked past,
the other problem this movie had is they got beat
to the punch a year earlier, right by the end,
by by the Incredibles, right, which it's like, wow, they.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Did it, you know, yeah, that's a great thing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
See this this thing with the whip cream, it cracks
me up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Oh, it's really funny. Yeah, but you know, it's also
making me realize, I guess what I have not been articulating, well,
is just like a lack of urgency.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Yes, yeah, right exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
We're just kind of hanging out with him till there's
twenty minutes left.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
Well, because the problem is that the Doom storyline doesn't
really there is none. Yeah, really, Like it's like, oh,
he's because it's basically I lost my bank loan or whatever.
I guess I'm a super villain now right, right right?
And and I guess they could have done more. I

(01:01:25):
mean they allude to it like like oh, Sue is
you know, gravitating towards read again and he's mad about
that or whatever, But none of that really tracks for me,
right because and Sue even says to read later, I, oh,
there's nothing between me and Victor. Well, clearly he thinks
there is, right, Why would he think that? Like you

(01:01:48):
know what I mean? And so it's like again, maybe
this is this is much more elucidated in the in
the that extended cut, but this is sort of doing
like a like a cliffs Notes version of a story.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Yeah yeah, because I'm just again like watching him here,
I'm thinking of Bradley with pretty Billy Madison again where
it's like, what is really pushing against the Fantastic Four
right now? M Like nothing, It's just like, well, I'm
gonna work on this machine and fix us, like we'll
get there. How's breakfast? You know, Like there's not an

(01:02:23):
active plan forming with the villain. Necessarily, they don't really
have a ticking clock to get things done, except you know,
of course Ben wants him to hurry up.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Yeah, and see. You know what I'm wondering is I
think it was a mistake to tie together The Fantastic
Four and Doctor Dooham in terms of them all having
the same origin. Just have have you? If you have
him as as you know his more traditional role from

(01:02:59):
the comic books, that's that's a storyline that can intersect
with the Fantastic for in a way that that adds
a taking clock to what they're doing. Right, So, so
he has some kind of a world ending scheme or whatever,
and and then and and the storylines intersect in a
way that that you can get to how how Read

(01:03:21):
and Doom have this shared backstory, right, but it but
it removes the need for this boring corporate intrigue story
which gives a shit about.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
You know, it's funny watching this scene right now with
the Doom in the parking garage and he kills that
investor guy or bored or whoever he is.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
Yeah, board guy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
It this should have happened like fifteen minutes ago. Yeah,
like he's advancing more, realizing what he's capable of, and
now he's gonna create a real problem, right, you know,
and then this is something that they're going to have
to step up either to fix the machine or fight
against like this is happening way late.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
See, well, here's the problem is is the what the
movie is asking us to believe is that they go
up onto the space station, they come back and they
all for the most part, look normal, and they're all heroic,
and it's like, literally they're all heroic on the bridge,
and then we cut to the boardroom and the guy's.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Like, look at this embarrassment. We're dropping our investment of you.
It's like, what, yeah, I know, I know, based on
what they should be, Like, how can we exploit this
and make right off of the thing exactly exactly? Yeah,
that's exactly it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
Right, If anything, the board would be like they're proprietary and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
We're gonna you know, exactly exactly right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
It's like, oh, you're like if if von Doom is
like on the cover of tech magazines and whatever, how
much failure do our normal tech mobiles have to go
through and they're still considered top tier?

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Yeah, we live in reality. Yeah, they make self driving
cars that kill people. You literally run people over it.
We're just like all hail, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
So so that's that's kind of my point is is
the corporate intrigue angle. This doesn't work for me on
any level. And again it feels like Warmed Over Spider
Man leftovers. Yeah, you know, we needed we needed a victor.
Like when he shoots that guy should be like.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Out am I you know, oh what that's That's what
I'm saying too, Like he should feel bigger, you know,
he's a little too straight for this movie, play bigger.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
And and again I'm like, Julia Man's good actor, so
I I enjoy watching him act, you know, I think,
I think, but but I think they they did not
sketch out that character as well. I remember going to
to Wonder Con in the early part of five and
and they had like atman beginning session, and they like

(01:05:48):
all the stuff that was about to come up, but
they had a fantastic four session and and and I
believe Tim's story was there. Julian McMahon was definitely there,
and he he was like really like excited to be there,
and he was wearing like like a hat like a
nit cap. There's like there's a brand called Von Dutch.
I think, oh yeah, and but it said Von Doom.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Oh that's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
He's like, I'm wearing my Von Doom hat a his
Australian accent and stuff, and I was like, he's very charming, right, yeah.
So I I remember being like, I I have a
hard time seeing him as the Von Doom from from
the comics, but I like his enthusiasm, and so I'm like,
you know, I I think I think he is a

(01:06:29):
good actor, but I feel like the character and the
actor weren't necessarily a great match.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
You know, This whole like X Games thing is really funny.
It was, like you said, the poochiness of Choinie Sturman
this movie. It does. I remember even back then, and
maybe I was slightly too old, but when they extreme
sports and you know, remember they did the XFL, Yeah,
They're like, we're gonna do you know, there's gonna be

(01:06:57):
like cheerleaders and these really skimpy outfits and like lah,
and I just remember looking at all of it and
just all I saw was like I just thought, so cynically,
I just saw like the guy in the suit who
thought of this idea, like kids love extreme things, right,
you know, you never actually work on anybody, Like did

(01:07:18):
anyone see this in the trailer and be like, wait,
there's extreme things in the Fantastic Four movie and I
like that, you know, Like I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
I was saying this part here where you know, at
there at the by the way, the car thing I
was wondering about. I was like, wait, so is did
he call himself torch before.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Because or is that recent?

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
So he? I mean they've been the Fantastic Four for
like a month, right, I don't But anyway, I was,
you know, he's on he's talking to that woman and
she's like, oh, and what's what's he called? And what's
she you know, and then and then she's like it's
Ben and she's like what's that thing. I'm like, wow,
that's a shitty thing to say, right right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
Right right, And I was thinking about it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
I was like, that's a mean name if anybody but
Ben gives it to himself, right right right? If Ben
is like no, I'm I'm the thing, Like yeah, you
feel you feel bad for him, but that's how he
sees himself.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
Yeah, I mean, this is a terrible version of it,
but it's just like I'm just this this thing, yeah,
you know, and then later he would kind of claim it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
Yeah, well that's that's essentially what happens in the first
issue of the comic book is that, you know, he
he he transforms. This is like in the comic book,
they're they're on a rocket ship, it's not a space station,
and it crashes and and then you know, Ben turns
into the thing, and and Sue says, I'll read you know,
he's turned into some kind of a thing, you know,

(01:08:46):
And then and then there's like a brief scuffle whatever,
and then and then they're like, we must help people
from now on. We are the fantastic for that type
of thing, you know. And and Ben is like, I'm
gonna I'm what what Sue called me is right, I'm
the thing or something. You know, I'm paraphrasing, but like
him owning it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Yeah, that's the only that works.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
Otherwise you're just a really shitty person.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
Come on, Ben? Or should I say thing? Right? You know,
there's a very funny I think you've heard it, the
Norm McDonald routine where the whole team is upset with
Reid for calling himself mister fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Oh yes, yes, yeah, yeah, I remember that and.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
It is hilarious. Yeah, anybody listening, you can you can
check that out. Nor McDonald fantastic words very funny.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
What is funny too, that so many of the superhero
things feel like they have to do this thing where
it's just like they have to either make some sort
of meta comments on the famous catchphrase or character name
that everybody knows, yeah, or like obscure it for the

(01:09:51):
entire film until they all land on it at the
end and we all go. They expect to sto go
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
Real quick, right this you talk about a great moment
right here where he's just like, you don't know what
I'd give to be invisible, and the way he says
it with such such a.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
He's right right, yeah, Yeah. I think I read somewhere
that stan Lee, I mean at the time, had a
long long ways to go, but like he was just like,
the thing is the best interpretation I've seen so far
of Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:18):
I believe that I, you know, I checklists came at
it as a fan, and that's evident through and through
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Yeah, yeah, sorry, you were saying no, no, no, But
you know, it's the version of what I was talking
about in this one is the it's clobbering time, yes,
you know, and it's just like he doesn't want to
say it. It looks like from the trailers too. For
the new one he doesn't want to say it also, yeah, exactly,
But in this one I was less convinced why he
would eventually say it at the end, Like I don't

(01:10:44):
even know where it came from. It's something like an
action figure.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
Said yeah, right, like well that's kind of yeah, that's
so why.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Would he then like adopt that for himself at the
end of this I'm not quite.

Speaker 3 (01:10:55):
Sure that in the Josh Trank movie, I don't know
if it's in the theatrical cut, see I don't even remember,
but it's like Ben's older brother beats him and says
it's clober in time when he beats him, okay, and
then Ben adopts that as his catchphrase. I'm like, wow,
that's dark.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
Yeah, yeah, kind of is. By the way, I think
there should be a letterbox list of all the movies
where like people try to you know, they're unusual and
they wear a disguise of an oversized fedora and coat.
You know, there's like this Ninja Turtles nineteen ninety off

(01:11:35):
the top of my head, you know, Raphael going to
the movies dressed exactly like this.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Baine in Batman and Robin right, yeah, yeah, yeah, so
Carrie Washington right just before blowing up.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Yeah, yeah, this is very sweet. It's a little uh,
I don't know, it's sweet. It's sweet. I did they
actually find this sweet? But it's executed in tone for
this movie, I mean for people who are not watching along.

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
You know ben Is, it's like weirdly erotic kind of
and like he's kind of like, yes, yeah, yeah, that's
kind and she's like caressing his face. I'm like, what
movie are we watching here?

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
Well, excuse me? And it's nice because you know it's
a woman. She's blind, she can't see, but she sees
the beauty within. It doesn't matter what he looks like.
But I'm like, what has he done so far that
is let her know there's any beauty within? Otherwise he's
just kind of growling at the bards under.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
Well, she's drunk, So you know, I would love to
be in the script.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
Notes meeting and someone just presented that and then that's
the answer, like, well, she's drunk.

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
So in in the in the nineteen ninety four movie,
one thing I remember very clearly and it cracks me up,
is there so the Alicia character there, there's a bit
where she gets kidnapped, okay, and and you know the
third act in Balls, you know, the f fiing to
rescue her or whatever. And so you have these people

(01:13:25):
come in and then they put a chloroform on her face,
right okay, And so you get this now stay with me.
You get this POV of of her with the chloroform
put on her and then she kind of like blacks
out again. It's a POV shot for Alicia.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
Oh oh, it wasn't even tracking line. Hilarious.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Oh man, I'm like, that's the one character that would
not work for They're like, no one's gonna see this, man,
see honestly, like this right here where it's just it's
just Julian McMahon and Michael Chicklis talking at a diner.

(01:14:17):
It's a great scene.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
It is nice.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
It is you know, like give me, give me more.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
Of that, you know, Yeah, but we should be seeing
more Mayhem. I feel like from Doom Yes to give
this movie a little bit more you know, punch, and
to make our heroes have to perk up a little bit.
I mean literally, we're looking at read waking up from
a nap here that's not good.

Speaker 3 (01:14:39):
I think I think the problem is that there there's
no there's no rationale given, like Reid is trying to
find a cure and and I think this is fundamentally
the problem, right. It's it's kind of the same problem
with trying to do an incredible Hulk franchise where the
main carecharacter doesn't like being his alter ego, right, and

(01:15:03):
we as the audience are like, yeah, but the alter
ego is why we're here, right, so we don't want
you to find a cure for it, or if you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
Give them a reason why, there's a race against the
clock to try to get them back for some sort
of reason. We can at least since that urgency. But
then when they decide to keep the things that either
keep them different or hold them back in order to
be heroes, we can roof for that, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
Yeah, I mean I think that fundamentally that yeah, see
this bit right here, yeah, yeah, where in the and
they alternately cut he turns into Wolverine.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Yeah. Yeah, he literally Hugh Jackman's face so weird. Yeah, which, which,
by the way, is that what are they commenting on
the movie X Men?

Speaker 3 (01:15:51):
Or Yeah, so does that exist? Does that exist in
this world?

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
Yeah? Yeah, and we should say in this version, he
what he does is he just gives himself a more
like heroic square job.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
Yeah, because because Joan griffithuriously hideous, a monster of a man.

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
Yeah, Jah already has a pretty good cut.

Speaker 3 (01:16:14):
This this, this is those movie. It's like Joan Griffith
is objectively a handsome man. Yeah, but movies like this
want us to be like, oh, it's this loser. You
can never look if if if the the human race
had to rely on Yoan and Jessica Albat keep the
planet going, we'd all be okay with it, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
Which, By the way, speaking of Jessica Alba, I'd forgotten
about this, but do you remember she married her husband
Cash Warren was the director's assistant on.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
This movie, No kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
Yeah, and I remember like learning that and being like
Bobby damn, because I was a director's assistant once. I
was like, that can happen?

Speaker 3 (01:16:57):
That could have been you damn? Yeah, right, so that's
the guy she just divorced like recently.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
Oh did they really? I didn't know that, but I know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
She's she's on the hunt. So hey, maybe maybe your
your window might come up.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
Yeah, but yeah, it just seemed like a very unlikely
thing back when I was Cash Warren, I am now
curious about I'm now invested in this relationship. Actually yeah,
and I'm not sure what he went on to do,
but but I do remember that when it happened.

Speaker 3 (01:17:26):
Well, well good, good for him.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
Yeah, how about that?

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
So look at this.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
Yeah, she it's like fan fiction I would have written
back in the day when I was like lowly crew
on movie and then Jessica Alba she just saw something
she'd never seen before. I love the way you hold
that clipboard, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
So she divorced Cash Warren.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
Oh no, sad.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
However, she is now dating Danny Ramirez aka the Falcon
in the in the MCU.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
Okay, so good for him. Yeah, and Cash, you had
a good run, buddy, Yeah that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
I mean, got what twenty years nineteen years she's I mean,
she she had a minute there where she was in
a lot of movies, and it seems like she's just
moved away from that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
Yeah, I want I didn't. I should have looked. But
I feel like she is one of those people who
has like a company now or something.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
Well it's like goo goop esque.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
I don't even know what it is, but just yeah,
you know what I mean, Like a lot of actors
find these side hustles and that's what's really bringing in
there their cash these days.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
Well, because cause what is she forty five? Now forty four? Yeah, yow,
look at this, she's forty four and she plays like
Chris Evans's big sister. She's like two months older than him.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
That's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
Yeah, she's forty four, so of course the only role
she would have available is like grandmothers. Yeah right, I know,
grandmothers and other elderly crones. Isn't that how the industry works.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
I know, it's terrible. I laugh, but it's terrible. Here's
the Yeah, the the action figure.

Speaker 3 (01:19:22):
It's a funny scene. I like that. It's collaborate tie.
He's like, that's the prototype. Yes, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
It's kind of like, why is he so upset? But
I do emotionally this is good because I again I
enjoyed the fun and games and the whip cream thing,
but like, we haven't really had any urgency emotionally action
wise for a little bit, and so this right now,
I feel like I'm pricking up a little bit because
I feel really bad for Ben. He's like, I can't

(01:19:51):
live like this much longer. Can you please hurry it up?
And it's causing friction amongst all of them, and this
is good, this is good.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
Well, and I see and shooting now. I don't remember
if it's in the theatrical cut or the extended cut,
but there's a thing where where Johnny goes to a
club and he starts doing fire. I'm like, Charlie blinking,
is that in this version?

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
I don't remember that, okay, although he is saying yeah,
So he goes to his club and and first of all,
there it's definitely not in this. There's like this montage
where he's in an elevator where all these hot chicks
keep getting on and he's like heating up the elevator
so they keep like taking.

Speaker 3 (01:20:30):
Off layers of clothing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
Seriously, I was filmed that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:34):
Yes, that's definitely in the extend cut, and then and
then I guess it's in the other extending cut. He
goes to a club and he's like doing like fire stuff,
and then like he does something dangerous and all these
girls are like, what are you doing, you jerk or
something like that. He's like, oh, well, they don't love
me or something like that. So in other words, like
it because Sue is like, we're your family, and he's like,

(01:20:55):
I got everybody loves me, and then turns out they don't.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Right right, right right?

Speaker 3 (01:21:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
But by the way, what I referenced earlier, I think
this is the moment where I checked the clock yesterday
because it was, like I said, it was starting emotionally
to like perk me up a bit, and it had
been a while. And then I see that, you know,
we're an hour sixteen in and there's less than thirty
minutes left. And I was like, oh, what, like, what
has been the plot of this movie? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:21:23):
Not not much, right, Yeah? Well, and really, when you
think about it, there are basically two action sequences.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Uh huh.

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
Yeah, there's the thing on the bridge, right, and you'd
think there would be another one in.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
There, you know what's interesting?

Speaker 3 (01:21:39):
So this.

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
I like this like read tries the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
He gets a really bad case of Bell's palsy.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Yeah, I mean that is actually what it kind of
looks like. And it's like his face is sagging, you know,
his arn't like it didn't work. It's making him like
weird and limp and like falling apart. But like that's horrifying, yes,
or it should feel that way, right, and instead we
get this sort of static shot you know, of him just.

Speaker 3 (01:22:06):
Right, like there's a way to stage it in a
way that that that accentuates them.

Speaker 1 (01:22:10):
Yeah, and kind of like maybe do like some sort
of push in on him and have the music with
these like dissonant strings that make us on card like
like something oh no, no, no no. But like the
filmmaking doesn't give us any sense of that. It just
gives us this like very flat kind of feeling execution
of that. And it's just I don't know why.

Speaker 3 (01:22:30):
Well, I mean, I just I don't. I think maybe
the director just wasn't really suited to this assignment. And
you hate to say that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
Really, I know, I feel like, yeah, but I mean
he's done other things that like Barbershop is great, you know,
Like yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
And again the Blaketing, if you haven't seen, it's a
good movie.

Speaker 1 (01:22:46):
Yeah, I remember you talked about Ride Along Too, which
I didn't like love but it like that did what
it set out to do.

Speaker 3 (01:22:52):
It does what it does.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
Yeah yeah, yeah, oh wow he did Tom and Jerry
remember that, oh, from like a couple of years ago. Yeah,
that was during COVID. Oh wow, there's another Shaft. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:06):
Don't you remember the one with it had uh this
is like twenty nineteen.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
I think I was gonna say, I remember the one
with Christian Bale in it.

Speaker 3 (01:23:14):
Yeah, that was the two thousand and one that was
John Singleton and then yeah, Tim Story it had Brandon
Brandon T. Jackson. I think interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
Okay, by the way, but I did read. I mean
you mentioned this already, but with the Incredibles that they
actually had to go into the script and tinker to
avoid similarities. Yeah that makes you wonder you know what?

Speaker 3 (01:23:36):
Yeah, like like what it would it looked like. Yeah,
Jesse Usher, not Brandon T. Jackson. Jesse Usher played young
young Shaft. No, I see Jesse Usher from Independence Day two,
which I know that's a movie. You're you're a big
pan up. I know, man, that was rough.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
That was I You're not good. We don't even need
to talk about that movie.

Speaker 3 (01:23:56):
Go ahead, No, I like this element here, right, So Sue,
so von Doom is like, you know what, in for
a penny, in for a pound, I'm already effed up.
I'm gonna get even more fed up. And he used
he leeches Ben's powers or the energy from Ben to
make himself for now. Now Ben is in the situation where,

(01:24:20):
think about it, he finally has what he wants, right,
he's a human again, but he has to give it
up to save his friends.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
I gotta say I really felt it. I felt so
happy for him, seeing him like this, right back to normal.
Although I don't want him getting back with that woman,
that's right, you know what I mean, But it meant
a lot to him. You know, he didn't he didn't
feel comfortable in that new skin, and so this, yeah,
this made me happy and that it's Yeah, it's very

(01:24:48):
emotionally potent like him having However.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
I think the problem for me is I would have
liked to see the choice of having to become the
thing again.

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
Yes, yes, well they certainly don't ring it for all
they could, right, you know. Yeah, well, and even do
him making this decision here, like you said, in for
a penny. I get it, but like what if there
was like some reason, like something he wanted but he
just wasn't strong enough for why is he doing this?

Speaker 3 (01:25:16):
Right? Like like literally the idea that he's like, well,
you know, I lost my company, so now you know,
he went from zero to rocket launcher very quickly. Yes,
And and I think he you know what is it

(01:25:39):
from the Simpsons Run of the Mill regular villainy and
then cartoonish super villainy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:25:45):
Right, And there's a little bit of that, like like
if if the movie starts with him already being very
clearly a bad guy, you know, you know, in terms
of what we the audience are made aware of, I
think it would track more. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
No? Absolutely?

Speaker 3 (01:26:04):
Yeah, Like obviously, in the context of this movie, Reid
should should be like no, no, Victor, He's fine whatever,
But like we as the audience are made privy to
the fact, no, this guy is a piece of shit.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
Yes, because because we get the.

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
Scene in the beginning where where the cloud is coming
to the the the space station and he starts closing
the shields, right, and you're like, oh, okay, he's a
bad guy. But I think we needed something before that
to be like, you know, he tells Hamish link letter like, oh,
Reid thinks this, but absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
That's what I'm saying he should have, I mean on
a at the same time, like that would give him
more business going on in the background that he could
be dealing with as he's going through this transformation. And
I don't know, it just makes more sense. Like everyone
just doesn't have a lot going on in this movie,
which is kind of funny because we can say something sorry,
just real quick.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
So so right here this part where he's like, never
better Jimmy and then freaking throws him through a door.
I watched this with my kids. Every single one of
them was like, oh, Jimmy, Jimmy didn't do anything, Like
what did Jimmy do? I know, I know he asked
him how he was doing. I know, sorry, go on,

(01:27:15):
well no, no, no, I.

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
Just you know, I'll try to get to spoilers because
in this moment it's kind of recent. But with the
New Superman movie, you know, we both loved it, but
it's got a lot going on, and in the third
act there's, you know, so much going on that Superman
can't even be in one of the places you would
kind of expect him to show up. You know, there's
other characters that handle business, and then he's fighting a
character who you know, just there's a lot of villains

(01:27:38):
and there's a lot of actions. There's a lot of
things going on. My brother and I were talking about
it yesterday and I was just thinking, that's kind of
where we've escalated with superhero movies. You know, they have
to feel I feel like there's a ton of business
and a lot of things going.

Speaker 3 (01:27:50):
On as opposed to one intersection in the in downtown.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Yeah. Yeah, well, and so it's funny. This feels sort
of quaint in old school in that way then, and
you know where it's not a lot going on.

Speaker 3 (01:28:06):
So the scene that we just saw a minute ago
where Victor he sees his reflection and he can't stand
to look at it, so he puts on the mask.
I can dig that. However, the mask is just completely
baffling to me.

Speaker 1 (01:28:20):
I was gonna ask, yeah, okay, yeah, please.

Speaker 3 (01:28:22):
Because in this movie, it's like thank you for your
meritorious service, you know, from the citizens of Latviaria, which
is of course the country that he's he's the dictator
of in the comics and I guess he's from Latviia,
But I'm like, what is that? Look, what is it?

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
What's that mask? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:28:37):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
It looks kind of like Man in the Iron mask,
like torture, medieval torture sort of.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
Yeah, it's odd, you know, and you realize this is
like a movie thing where they have to get they
have to get the version that we see and turn
it into the version that we know. And it's you know,
but this part here where he's like, call me Doom,
it just feels like out of nowhere.

Speaker 1 (01:29:00):
Comes out of nowhere. So yeah, so what in the
comics does he make his own mask or something to
hide his face or what's Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
He he he takes refuge with an order of monks
and they craft this this elaborate suit of armor for him,
you know, I see, And it's he's very theatrical. He's
got a big cape and stuff, and you know, he's
always scheming, right, He's always got his fist in the
air Richard's and that type of thing, you know. And
I think the version in this movie kind of needed

(01:29:28):
to be theatrical in that way. But I don't. I
just don't think a corporate titan lends itself to that necessarily,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:37):
Yeah, yeah, And that's the only That's.

Speaker 3 (01:29:40):
The point I'm making, is like, there was no reason
to tie Doom's origin in with this because he doesn't
have superpowers anyway, So why not just have it as
a separate story and then the two things intersect. Yeah,
it makes more sense to me, you know. And this
see there right there, the look on his face, He's like,
I know what I have to do. M h. That's great.

(01:30:02):
But I just feel like there was more drama to
be had there, maybe just in a different movie.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
I don't know, you know, I remember thinking, and I'm
gonna be honest with you, I don't even remember the
specifics of exactly what's happening right now, but like I remember.

Speaker 3 (01:30:16):
Thinking, like, does he like, does he need to become
the thing?

Speaker 1 (01:30:19):
Yeah? Like what is the one thing that can't be stopped?
And less? You're this guy? Like I'm not even like
what is doing doing right now? I don't even remember.

Speaker 3 (01:30:32):
He's got to read all like frozen?

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
Yeah, So I mean, does he maybe he can use
his smarts? You know, like maybe does he need to
be the rocket? We've got a flaming guy here, you know,
who's leading dismissile. Oh, by the way, he basically annihilates
this garbage barge. Yeah, I mean, is someone piloting that thing?
That's a good point.

Speaker 3 (01:30:55):
Good lord, we needed like a POV terminator thing, you know, body,
you know, casualties zero from his from his po beads.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
Or it could have been like, you know, yeah, casualties too.
He's like, eh, he's like when some loose some.

Speaker 3 (01:31:18):
You have something.

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
I'm enjoying this, and I guess I just feel like
I haven't seen a lot of this. But it's like
he's using his you know, flaming powers for lead a
missile away, and she's turning invisible to try to help
read unseen like this is now I'm leaning forward, you know,
But there's like fifteen minutes left in the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:31:37):
It's so funny.

Speaker 1 (01:31:38):
By the way, there's a when he jumped off the
Johnny when he jumped off the thing, and she's like,
you're not thinking, and he's like never do or whatever.
He says yeah, and then you know, let's not fight
and she's like, no, let's I couldn't believe how much
I remembered of the trailer for this is the trailer yeah.
I was like, oh, I remember that. I remember all

(01:31:58):
these lines from the trailer, and I don't. I don't
know how, but I do. It's like years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:32:07):
Yeah, yeah, the victor. You always thought you were a god.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
Let's not fight, no, let's yeah. Yeah, so now she
can like what is what is she like projecting here
when she fires things?

Speaker 3 (01:32:21):
So she so Sue actually like is the most powerful
out of all of them because she doesn't merely turn
herself invisible. She's able to create invisible objects basically mm hmm. Okay,
you know, so she created force fields around herself. I mean,
you name it. You know, she can she can do

(01:32:42):
some damage, which which you know, I don't know what
the new movie is gonna do, but I hope they
get into that a little bit, because she's she's a
force to be reckoned with, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
Yeah, you know, now I'm realizing and it's great. You know,
Ben came in and got his punch in on Doom,
but like he almost want to see an example of
him trying to help but realizing he's not enough in
his regular form and being like.

Speaker 3 (01:33:08):
I have no choice that see that. So then then
what you do is you have the battle in the
Baxter building instead of in Doom's high rise, you know,
because there's this weird like okay, now I'm I'm at
your building. Now I'm gonna beat you up and drag
you back to my building.

Speaker 1 (01:33:23):
Ah yeah yeah right right, like that's you just rights invaded.

Speaker 3 (01:33:29):
Yeah right. He's situated in the building and and Ben
tries to do something he can't and so he works
his way back to that thing. And you know that
that makes more sense, and you have it more of
a moment. Maybe you even have Sue or somebody be like,
don't do it, yes, right, you know, don't do this.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
He's like, you know, in the car, I was I
was thinking about the making of this movie and like
putting the camera on the hood and like, all right, ladies,
like as a giant rock guy in your hood go
and they're like, oh, just like just charming to me.

Speaker 3 (01:34:08):
By the way, are you are you picturing yourself as
the as the rugged young pa.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
Not catching Jessicaalba's attention.

Speaker 3 (01:34:15):
You're writing the script. And then Jessica Alba glanced at
him and chested booby lee while.

Speaker 1 (01:34:22):
Right as he asked, what would you like for lunch?
We're picking up CPK. You know, I put a little
extra peppers on yours. You know what as a trope

(01:34:43):
I love, and I honestly, off the top of my
head can't think a bother examples, but I know I've
seen it is when someone superpowered or whatever gets thrown
into something like yes, now, yeah, it gets thrown.

Speaker 3 (01:34:55):
Into like a literally as we just watched that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:57):
Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking this yesterday when I watched it, Like,
I love that trope of like someone big and powerful
or whatever being thrown into like a bus or whatever,
and then we don't see what happens, but the bus
stops and then all of a sudden, the guy just
like exits it. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, I
know it's talking about It's just I don't know. Something
about that always gets me, Like, you thought he'd be
stopped by being thrown into this thing, but then he

(01:35:19):
just walked he exits.

Speaker 3 (01:35:20):
It ain't gonna work, yeah, because because because he's the
he's the baddie.

Speaker 1 (01:35:25):
See.

Speaker 3 (01:35:25):
Okay, So so this here when Johnny joins the like
obviously you know, Doom thinks he's dead or whatever. But like,
I think it would mean more if if they had
left that scene in where he's been sort of rejected.
I kind of agree, yeah, the people, you know, not
kind of I do agree. Yeah, yeah, this is where

(01:35:46):
he belongs.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
These are the people who care exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:35:48):
They're the ones who are gonna care about him no
matter what.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
Totally. You know what else I was thinking during this.
You know, I know a lot of people don't think
about this or care, but like I just I don't know.
I notice a lot like the way movies are colored,
and they can really affect the way I feel about
the film. You know, I didn't love the oversaturated style

(01:36:11):
in the aughts or whatever, you know, Michael Bay and
his transformers or everyone has orange skin and you know,
and then now there's like this whole thing where people
are like desaturating movies because they're serious. As I was
watching the sequence.

Speaker 3 (01:36:25):
I was like this, I like this. Yeah, it's it's colorful.

Speaker 1 (01:36:30):
It's it's colorful, but it's not overly colorful. It's like
the lighting at night, Like it just reminds me of
all the action films. I like, Yeah, I just I
gotta call it out. I love the way that this
I agree it's lit in the way that it's captured.
I think it was cool and I like this. This
is cool. I mean, I get that this is what
you want to say for the big crescendo, all of

(01:36:51):
them using their stuff together. But it's fun. It's fun,
like I'm excited to finally see this and see them.

Speaker 3 (01:36:56):
It to me, to me, this this bit where they
defeat by the way. I don't know if it was
this movie or the next one, but Jessica Alba talked
about how when she was being directed Tim's story, he
was like, no, you're crying too real A cry more pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:37:17):
Oh, you know, I've heard that like anecdote before. I
didn't realize it was about this movie.

Speaker 3 (01:37:22):
Yeah, it was either this one or the next one,
but it was definitely Jessica al By talking about making
a fantastic for that is really cry more pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:37:29):
I'm more pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:37:34):
No, But I like how they this third act shows
the team putting all their various strengths to use.

Speaker 1 (01:37:41):
You know, I love it. I love it. Yeah, I
hit a thing using his strength to knock open the
fire hydrant read becoming like a little water shoot to
propel it further. Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 3 (01:37:58):
I was surprised to see a lot of the behind
the scenes footage where this this uh this fight scene.
It was Julian McMahon in in the Doctor Doom suit.
You know. Ow you think he'd have been like, all right,
well you don't see my face. I'm just gonna pace out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:14):
Yeah, you get like a stunt guy or something.

Speaker 3 (01:38:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:16):
Interesting for a lot of but it was him. That's cool.
Here we go. Yeah, they're buddies, were pals. And then
I guess I uh didn't clock this, but at the
beginning we see that statue being erected outside of Doom's building. Yep,

(01:38:37):
and now he's become the statue.

Speaker 3 (01:38:39):
Look at that, He's become what he beheld.

Speaker 1 (01:38:42):
Yeah, Now is he all metal? Like sort of like
with thing things inards are rock. Also we see through
an X ray, so that guy just become like all metal,
like his heart's metal.

Speaker 3 (01:38:53):
And I think that's what that that that scan shows
in the beginning right or in the middle when he's
at the doctor, remember the guy he kills.

Speaker 1 (01:39:01):
Yeah, but is he is he done? Is he not
in the sequel? I've never seen the sequel. He is
in the sequel, Yeah he isn't it? He is?

Speaker 3 (01:39:08):
And you gotta find out how that happens. The nice
thing about the the nice thing about the sequel, it
is ninety minutes. Come on, yeah, he'll be able to
watch it and get on with the rest of your day,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:39:18):
And I'm already immersed. I've watched this twice now in
like two days. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:39:22):
Yeah. Well, like I said, I I just watched the
second one last night, and I've said I've said for
a while. Look, it's better than this one in my opinion.
I mean, it's a difference of degrees, but I think
it helps just having the the the origin out of
the way, you know, because what you realize is, man,
I'm like Superhero origined. Doubt. Sure, let's just get to
the smashy smashy.

Speaker 2 (01:39:42):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:39:43):
Yeah. Yeah, well, and then I mean, especially with the
new one about to come out.

Speaker 3 (01:39:47):
Well and considering the new one is about, you know,
Galactus and the Silver Surfer. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, this
is where the you know, the the Rise of the
Silver Surfer.

Speaker 1 (01:39:56):
All things are going well with Ben and Kerry Washington.

Speaker 3 (01:39:59):
It seems like I remember back when this movie came out.
I used to occasionally visit the message board of John Byrne,
who's a comic book writer artist. He had a you know,
I mentioned before he rebooted Superman and I was quite
quite the memorable run for me. He also had before that,
he had a Fantastic Four run. So many people think

(01:40:20):
of his Fantastic Four run as second only to stan
Lee and Jack Kirby, you know, in terms of being
very integral. And I remember him saying, with regards to
Jessica Alba, you know when when Latina women have blonde hair,
they look like prostitutes.

Speaker 1 (01:40:37):
And I was like, okay, not.

Speaker 3 (01:40:40):
Visiting this message board anymore. No, I was like, you
could have just not said that.

Speaker 1 (01:40:45):
I know. Yeah, I feel like that was like a
mantra for a long time. We were like, you know,
you could have just not said that.

Speaker 3 (01:40:54):
And the truth is, she's like pretty good. I think
she's getting both of these you know.

Speaker 1 (01:40:57):
Oh she told they all like do serve their character.

Speaker 3 (01:41:02):
I agree with that. Yeah, the casting was was not
the problem at least in terms of the main four.

Speaker 1 (01:41:09):
By the way, I forgot to call this out, but
there's a couple of Wilhelm screams in this yes, which
I feel like you're hearing less and less because people
have now caught onto that. Yes, but I swear in
this moment where Johnny flies off and comes toward camera,
there's kind of a kind of noise and then it
gets directed by I swear they inserted one very subtly here.

(01:41:30):
I listened to it three times.

Speaker 2 (01:41:31):
WI.

Speaker 1 (01:41:32):
Yeah, I think there's a kind of like almost it's
a little joke. I wish we could hear it together here, but.

Speaker 3 (01:41:37):
No, I'll have to check it out the end. Wait,
not the end?

Speaker 1 (01:41:49):
What?

Speaker 3 (01:41:50):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:41:50):
Actually I already forgot about this when I was talking
about that. He's being shipped off to so in this movie, Wait,
what is a relationship to this country? In the comics,
he is like a ruler there or something, right, correct?

Speaker 3 (01:42:02):
Yeah? Okay, So so in in the comics, essentially a
Lotveria is this you know, eastern European country, and it
was ruled by a dictator called the Baron, and and
Victor von Doom was a freedom fighter and then he
eventually overthrows the Baron and then as as tends to happen,
the rebel of yesterday becomes the dictator of tomorrow. Right,

(01:42:26):
and and you know, I mean, I mean, doctor Doom
is such an interesting character. Really, you know, like if
you if if Marvel were to be like, we're gonna
do a movie called Doom and it's just his arc
from freedom fighter to dictator, that'd be kind of interesting. Dude,
sign me the f up. Yeah, uh, And and I
have no doubt down he's gonna do something interesting. So

(01:42:49):
I'm very excited to see that. But that's that's what
irks me. Is Like, man, they they they only touched
on the the bear surface of what this character is. Yeah, yeah,
you know, and that's a shame, like like you could
have done a Fantastic four movie and not had Doctor
Doom at all and just saved him for the sequel.
I think that might have been better. Sure, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:43:10):
Yeah, well, and even I was just I mean, as
long as we're wrapping things up here. But the Kerry
Washington character, like I was saying, I mean, she just
becomes one of those sort of magical figures. It's just
like the woman this guy needs to feel better about himself,
but she doesn't make any sense as a character. And
it would be interesting if he was kind of angry. Yeah,

(01:43:33):
but then it's just a little sad too, But she
can pick up on that even though she can't see
like she can pick up on that. She's you know,
got the because she maybe she's experienced that herself. Like
I used to be angry too, you know, and but
then I've learned that maybe I can see things that
other canboy, you know whatever, and then she can including him,

(01:43:53):
she can see what other stuff like when it's just
deep in it, just a little.

Speaker 3 (01:43:56):
Bit, a little bit. I agree. Well, in in the
extended cut, there's a scene and where Ben goes to
her gallery.

Speaker 1 (01:44:02):
She's Okay, maybe I should have watched the extended cut. Yeah,
And it's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:44:05):
I'm remembering it now, like it's coming back to me
because I'm like, oh, wait, that's not in this because
she's a sculptor, okay, right, And so she he goes
to her gallery and he sees that she sculpted him
just based on what she remembers. Yeah, and but she
like finds the inner beauty kind of thing, you know.
It's like Marge painting mister Burns kind of thing, you know.

(01:44:31):
And and so like like that that sense of like
she sees something special in him that he can't even
see himself. Yeah, yeat it. You know, That's what I'm
saying this is like the theatrical cut is like a
cliffs notes of that.

Speaker 1 (01:44:45):
Yeah. Literally, you literally described what I was asking for. Yeah,
that's yeah, right, So so so they shot it.

Speaker 3 (01:44:52):
Yeah, yeah, And and I have to I have to
believe that had they released the the theatrical version with
many of the things in the extended edition, the movie
itself would probably be more well regarded. Again not, I
think a lot of the structural flaws are still there.
I don't think you know, it's not going to blow

(01:45:13):
anybody's hair back, but it's an odd thing, right, You're
talking about fifteen minutes difference, yeah, or whatever, twenty minutes, right,
Like the cuts don't make sense in terms of like, oh,
we're trying to squeeze in more showings, Well what you're
not going to You're not going to do that anyway,
right right, right?

Speaker 1 (01:45:30):
Yeah, and then you just end up with something that
I don't feel like there's much here, but it's pleasant enough.

Speaker 3 (01:45:36):
It's well compared to the twenty fifteen version. I mean,
this is the magnificent Anderson's prepared to that.

Speaker 1 (01:45:43):
It's you know, I remember not liking it, and I
couldn't even tell you why. I don't. I haven't thought
about that since the second we stopped talking about it.

Speaker 3 (01:45:51):
The twenty fifteen movie.

Speaker 1 (01:45:52):
Yeah, the twenty fifteen.

Speaker 3 (01:45:53):
The twenty fifteen movie was bad in so many different
ways that you start you start trying to unpack, like
what are the what were the conversations that they had
leading up to this decision? You know, the filmmakers, Like
it's it's like nobody was on the same page. M hm,
you know, interesting, like like the because because Josh Trank,

(01:46:16):
who was who was? You know, he's the credited director
despite how things turned out, He's like, I wanted to.

Speaker 1 (01:46:23):
Do a body horror movie, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:46:27):
And my response to that is, okay, do something else
besides the Fantastic Four, because the Fantastic Four is not
body horror.

Speaker 1 (01:46:35):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:46:36):
I'm not saying there isn't value or something. I mean
he did something interesting with Chronicle right.

Speaker 1 (01:46:41):
Oh yeah, that's that's a really good movie. Yeah, but
do why he was hot for a minute there.

Speaker 3 (01:46:45):
But I would like Chronicle Less if it was like,
oh and this is my Superman reboot or whatever. You know, Yeah, sure, sure,
but it works because it's playing on tropes and doing
something different the same thing, like do something fantastic for
esque m M that works. Yeah. Yeah, Like I remember
back in back in the day, like early nineties and

(01:47:05):
the Superman comics, they had a story where you have
these these four astronauts who are essentially Fantastic Four stand
ins who Superman encounters. They went through a cosmic storm
and they're going through these metamorphoses which are very similar
to the Fantastic Four. Right, But what that story did
was it does it in a quote unquote realistic way. Okay,

(01:47:27):
and so they are like degenerating yeah, yeah, yeah, and
it's really it's a great story and it's really interesting
and it works because these are not the Fantastic Four. Right,
but we get that it's kind of doing a pastiche right, huh. Right,
So I'm you know, so like the guy, you know,
the thing looking guy he walks into a magnetic resonance

(01:47:50):
chamber and just tears himself apart because he the pain
is too much like things like that, you know, right, right, right, right, right,
So my point is you want to do a body
horror story that that's kind of a fantastic for do it,
do it right, but leave the ff alone. So that right,
like it's it's a weird thing because Miles Teller, who
I like, I think is a good actor, completely miscast.

Speaker 1 (01:48:14):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:48:15):
Michael B. Jordan is like everything just is wrong in
that movie. You know, Michael B. Jordan is like the
least bad thing about that movie.

Speaker 1 (01:48:22):
To be honest, as you keep rattling off names, I again,
I'm like, oh right, right, oh Rightymara, Oh right, yeah,
because there was that whig business, which I know is
like a little unfair, but to pick on that, but like, yeah,
that's right because there's a bunch of reshoots and she yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:48:39):
Like like, and if you think Julian McMahon's Doctor Doom
is bad, Toby Kibble is ready to say, hold my beer.

Speaker 1 (01:48:47):
You think that's bad? You remember that South Park? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:48:53):
Yeah, because in in that, Doom is like a like
a blogger, you know. Okay, in that I remember his
name was gonna be Victor Damashev. Okay, not Victor von Doom.
And and Toby Kibble gave interviews like yeah, he's Victor
Damashev's no doctor, And then I guess at some point
they were like, oh, we should like have him his

(01:49:15):
name be Victor Bond Doom. But they do it through
like like very obvious ad R. Right, So it's like,
I see that you've got Victor von Doom as part
of your team, mister Black. Yeah, it's like that. And
then he shows up. He looks like a like a
crash dummy sex doll when he's doctor Dude.

Speaker 1 (01:49:37):
It's really I don't remember any of this.

Speaker 3 (01:49:40):
It's freaking weird man, Doctor Doom. There is a part
in there where he's being like a big oh damn, yeah,
he's you saw it, you just saw it.

Speaker 1 (01:49:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:49:49):
I kind of reminds me.

Speaker 1 (01:49:50):
Of that really creepy Queen cover. You know what is
that mode?

Speaker 3 (01:49:55):
I'm gonna have to look that up.

Speaker 1 (01:49:56):
Yeah, actually speaking of a family guy what he said
South Park with the family guy riff that they do.
I remember there's a whole episode about Stewie being afraid
of the cover of that album because the thing is
so creepy looking.

Speaker 3 (01:50:06):
That's so funny.

Speaker 1 (01:50:07):
Yeah, anyway, sorry, No, there's a bit where where in
that movie he's, you know, Victor is being like a
down or something and she's like doctor Doom over here,
and I'm like, no, no, don't do.

Speaker 2 (01:50:24):
That.

Speaker 3 (01:50:24):
Tries me crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:50:25):
They called me doctor doom. They called me mister Glass.
Oh my gosh, Hey, the movie's over, Brian.

Speaker 3 (01:50:34):
Yeah, wow, we can keep going.

Speaker 1 (01:50:37):
Yeah, well there we go.

Speaker 3 (01:50:38):
Fantastic four, two thousand and five.

Speaker 1 (01:50:42):
Yeah, I mean, you know whatever, I mean, if you
want to show your kids something where they're like not
ready for something, it's a little more intense, I think
you can show them this.

Speaker 3 (01:50:50):
I think you are one hundred percent right. I watched
it with my with my younger ones yesterday and and
they were I was gonna say they had a grand
old time. That's not accurate. They were. They were moderately
amused for the you know, sure, ninety minutes and change whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:51:04):
Sure, sure, Oh damn sorry. I just on my iPad,
I can see like the menu for this and the
rating the rotten tomatoes twenty seven percent.

Speaker 3 (01:51:14):
That's that's a little much.

Speaker 1 (01:51:16):
That's I disagree with that. Yeah, I'd put it like,
I don't know, like a sixty or something.

Speaker 3 (01:51:21):
I was gonna say, mid fifties. Yeah. So but anyway, Hey,
you know, I think we'll have some added context whenever
we get around to discussing Fantastic four first steps. Maybe
maybe you will appreciate that one more. Yeah, or perhaps
you will appreciate this one more. Yeah, maybe maybe it
could go either way. I guess we'll find out. But hey,

(01:51:42):
let us know your thoughts about Fantastic four from two
thousand and five, and also let us know your thoughts
about our thoughts. You can email us at Movie Film
Podcast at gmail dot com. You can also hit like
on our Facebook page Facebook dot com slash Movie Film
Podcast and message us there. As always, please go to
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(01:52:04):
That'd be nice. We also have a Patreon pagement that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:52:09):
If you head over to Patreon dot com slash Movie
Film Podcast and hit subscribe. For only five dollars a month,
you'll find every commentary we've done previous to this and
every episode moving forward absolutely AD free. We would like
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(01:52:34):
your subscription goes a long way and helping to support
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you're interested in able, please head over to patreon dot
com slash Movie Film Podcast and hit subscribe. We'd be
very grateful.

Speaker 3 (01:52:46):
Well, there you go, and if you're looking for me online,
you can find me on social media at Zaki's Corner
That z Akis Corner. You can also find my reviews
at the San Francisco Chronicle as well as IGN and
The Rap and Brian What About You.

Speaker 1 (01:52:59):
You can episodes I've written of Young Jedi Adventures streaming
on Disney Plus.

Speaker 3 (01:53:04):
There you go, and with that on behalf of my
partner Brian Home. My name is Zachi Hassan. This has
been our commentary track for Fantastic four from two thousand
and five. Thank you everyone for listening. We'll catch you
next time.

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Commentary Track: Fantastic Four (2005)

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