Commentary Track: Unbreakable

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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the show. Welcome Friends Podcasts podcast show Jacky and Brian.
They're talking about the group back.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
I guess are you ready for the truth? I believe
comic book heroes walk the air. I believe you have a
lot of those individuals. It's all right. It could be
free David. That's this part.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
It would be like a comic book.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
That is winning. It's time for someone like you, Unbreakable.
Welcome to a movie film commentary track. My name is
Zachi Hassan, and here is the David Dunn to my
Elijah Price, Brian Hall.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Hey, how's it going, Zachie?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Brian when he woke up this morning, was the sadness gone?

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yes, because I knew I was going to be recording
with you, because I think that's my purpose.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Just stay out of the water and you'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
That's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
We are here to watch and talk through two thousands Unbreakable.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, this is when you brought this up, I was like,
of course, Unbreakable. I love Unbreakable. This is just one
of those obvious ones. I can't believe we haven't done yet.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
This is a fun one in the sense that it's
it's been interesting to watch over the last quarter century
as its reputation has grown.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, absolutely, I mean that was an interesting part of
this for me because I do remember. I'll talk about
it a little bit more, but I remember liking this, right,
off the bat. But even the same night, people within
my friend group were split on it. And I saw it.
You say, oh, and we'll talk about that experience. By

(02:56):
the way, that was incredible. But I saw that this
had a cinema score of c as like early cow
all right. I don't know. I only remember how I
felt about it, maybe because it was less of an
Internet age than we're living in now, where I know, yeah,
what everybody thinks about everything. But this is gonna be
fun to get into.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
I agree. So there is just the one cut of Unbreakable,
which makes this conversation a little bit easier. So we're
gonna get started on this now. Worth mentioning that that
they have Disney has added a little disclaimer at the
top that says this film contains tobacco depictions. I think

(03:35):
that's right.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, that's what I have.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, And so just for the sake if you're trying
to time it up, that's the version that we're watching.
So there there's like a it's like a six second
thing at the start there. In case your version does
not have that, just just bear that in mind. Yep,
there you go.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Oh, hold on, I have to light up just before
we record it soothes me, your regular don Draper over there.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Uh so, uh we going ready to do this? Ready,
all right, so we will hit play on three one
two three play and here you go one two three play.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Contains tobacco depictions. November twenty second, two thousand, when Touchstone
Pictures was still releasing movies.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, well, this, this movie very much came out in
the warm afterglow of the Sixth Sense. Yes, just over
a year prior.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Very very quick, isn't it, I mean very fast?

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Turned around? Yeah, well, he had started writing the script
for this while making the Sixth Sense.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, I saw. He wrote this as a spec script,
and he wound up making five million dollars for the
script and five million dollars to direct it.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Not too shabby considering he was. He was not even
thirty at that time.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, that's right, twenty nine years old.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Now. I have to say I felt very targeted by
this intro thing right here with the text. What do
you mean about the evils of comic books? Oh?

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Is that is that how you took it?

Speaker 2 (05:15):
I was kind of like, I don't like where this
is headed. Oh you know, it's funny.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
I took it as a little bit of a No. Seriously,
this is like big business, and despite how you feel
about what's coming up, you know, comic books are legit,
They've been around for a long time, they're you know
what I mean, almost.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Like that if that's what you thought at the beginning,
Definitely by the end, when when the comic book Nerd
turns out to be the raving psychopath.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
That's so funny. Do you actually is that kind of
how you view this A.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Little bit, not so much. I was only kind of
joking about the beginning, but I definitely remember at the
end being like, all right, oh guys. I mean there's
like lots of people who read comics who you know,
they're fine.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
That is really funny. I guess I never thought of
it that way. But you know, this is this is
such an interesting film, isn't it. I mean, there's so
much to talk about, but like this is. As I
was watching it, I was thinking, this movie is in
the year two thousand, ahead of its time, and ironically
also could have only been made in this time.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
I was I had that exact putt well touching it right.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
This is a movie that should come out right now
because we are now so steeped in comic book movies
and culture and whatever that this movie could be I think,
you know, appreciated by way more people if it were
to come out now. But they don't make movies like
this any sort. So yeah, but you know, there was
a lot of talk about when I was doing research

(06:43):
on this, about the marketing and uh yeah, yeah, you know,
and and a lot of I guess coming from Disney
or whoever, the marketing people, they kind of wanted to
obscure the fact that this was a comic book movie.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Actually real, real quick, Brian, before he leaves the stage,
I did want to Amon Walker, who plays the doctor here.
Oh yeah, he's just up until recently, he was a
regular on Chicago Fire.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Oh okay, and you know he's.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Kind of kind of the grizzled, the veteran. You know.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Oh that's so funny because he looks so young.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Here he's a young buckstrap right here. Anyway, he's great.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
I mean, it's a very it's a small part, but
it's impactful, and it's it's kind of horrifying, you know,
knowing that this talk about.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
The worst nightmare any new parent could could experience.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
You know, Yeah, this one's just giving birth in a
department store, and then the baby's arms and legs are broken,
and and then it's just like fades the Black m
Night Shemalin Presents. You're like, oh, okay, so this that's
that's what we're for. And this is kind of a
you know, serious melancholy movie. Yeah, you know, this isn't

(07:52):
really a romp, which is kind of interesting. And you
know this movie too, and this is something I remembered,
and I was wondering if I would be distracted by
it or still enamored with it as I was in
two thousand. But this is a very deliberately paced.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Oh yeah, even more so than The Sixth Sense, Yes,
which is also deliberately paced.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
But this is very I mean it's a slow burn,
and there are a lot of movies that are slow burns,
but I mean, this is a movie that has takes
that last several minutes. And this, I mean, this is
a prime example what we're looking at here where we
see Bruce Willis as David Dunn on the train and
we go through this whole little short film of he
seems like kind of a sad person. Yeah, and he's

(08:33):
wearing this wedding ring and then this cute woman sits
next to him and he tries to strike up a conversation.
He goes a little too far, oversteps kind of flirting
with her, and she decides to leave. Oh, but he
takes off his wedding ring to have this conversation. Yeah,
oversteps a little bit. She's uncomfortable, she leaves, he puts
the ring back on. But the way they do it,
it's not just I mean, you could imagine that in
a regular sort of film, but I mean, what we're

(08:55):
looking at here is the camera is positioned in the
seats in front of them on this train, and we're
peaking like we're almost like eavesdropping on this moment right
as the camera sort of is just looking through the
cracks of the two seats, going slowly moving back and
forth and back and forth, picking up on them during

(09:15):
this moment. It's I remember at the time this was.
You know, there are certain movies I think when you're
becoming a sinophile, or you start making your own movies
and going to film school, or you know, with your
video camera in your backyard or your phone now, and
there are things that you see that just spark something
inside of you and then you start trying to do
that kind of thing. I remember this.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Movie was a huge influence on me.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
I did this short film at college, and I remember
there's a moment where these people are slowly figuring something
out in a restaurant, and I was like, because I
had this movie in my mind, it was like the
camera started like at the entrance of the restaurant and
it's like a waiter walks in front, and then it
goes over like a menu and a slowly reaching the
people as they hit their realization. And I know it

(10:01):
was because of this. Yeah, the style of this film.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
That's really something. This is such an uncomfortable scene to watch.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
It really is.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
You do sort of a cringe on his behalf you
a mm hmmm hm.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
And she's good too. The whole well, I guess, I
guess switch seats. But this is I hadn't seen this
in a while, and if there were certain things that
I remember from this, this is actually one of those,
like moments him taking off the ring then him putting
the ring back on.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, it is a terrific performance by Bruce Willis.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yes, and Samuel Jackson. I mean, this is just talk
about like a gift this script for the both of them,
you know, for both them.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
And it is funny because we began this year with
our commentary track for Diehard with a Vengeance, and they're
playing such different versions of themselves in that, you know,
mm hmm, yeah, you talk about their their respective range
as actors. You know.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
I was thinking too, Pulp Fiction wasn't even ten years
before this, that's right, maybe like six or something, and
Pulp Fiction was ninety four.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Diehard was ninety five and this is two thousand. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah. I hadn't realized how often they had been on
screen together.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, yeah, and especially once you factor in glass.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yep yep, which.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Their final, their final pairing.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
It turns out, you know, this was making me want
to revisit that Yeah, And I was like, I don't know,
I just remember not really enjoying my time with that one.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
So just in preparation for this, I didn't have time
to watch it. So I was like, all right, I'll
watch a recap. So I went on YouTube and I
saw one that was nine minutes. I was like hmmmm,
And then I saw one that was two minutes, and
I was like, bingo, Yeah, I'd be curious to watch
it again now that my expectations are set. Sure, still
don't know that I would love it, but now that

(12:04):
I know what it is, and having, you know.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Just watched this fresh, i'd be kind of curious.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, But anyway, so this, I mean, I was a
huge fan of The Sixth Sense. I mean, it's it's
worth noting again we both are. And that was one
of those movies where, now before the movie comes out,
you would be seeing on like social media or news
articles or whatever, like you won't believe the ending of
the Sixth Sense, right, you know, so you're you're walking

(12:30):
in knowing there's some sort of twist awaiting you. But
I think we both went in not knowing that there
was a twist, and so it was just one of
the most mind blowing, unexpected and satisfying film moments, you know,
that we had had in a long long time. So
then when you you know that this this guy who
you don't know who he is, and night Shyamalan is
coming out with a new movie, and then I remember

(12:53):
the trailer was the scene we're going to see in
a minute where he's at the hospital and it's a
doctor basically saying you know you or You're involved in
this train accident and every single person died except you.
There's not a scratch on you. And it's like from
the guy who brought you the sixth Sense, You're like, well,
come on, like sign me up. You know, like huge
anticipation for this.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
And that gets to Obviously Disney leaned hard into the
sixth sense of it all in order to sell the movie,
and I guess that got them a decent opening weekend,
even though you know, the movie itself did not perform
at that level. You know, it's just a different movie.
But Shyamalan has talked about how I mean he wanted

(13:35):
to I mean, this was his superhero movie, and essentially
he was told, you can't say superhero right, you get right.
None of the stuff that would allow you to, you know,
the stuff you had put in a trailer was available
to them. And I really think that some of that
expectation setting would have been very helpful. And I also,

(13:57):
you know, Quentin Tarantino has talked about about how, I mean,
for him, this is one of his favorite movies, you know,
from from the time he started directing to now is
from like ninety two to now, and he he made
a great point, and he's like, it's a movie. What
if Superman was real? But he doesn't know he's Superman?

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Right right?

Speaker 2 (14:20):
What a great pitch? Yeah right, yeah uh, And so
that I do feel like they kind of handicap themselves
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
It's it's it's tough because I loved not knowing, like
the discovery for me and abilities, like, what a what
a gift to be able to step into a movie
like this that is going to become the perfect thing
that I will find enjoyable and delightful. And I get
that discovery, you know. But for a lot of people,

(14:54):
I think they were unprepared, you know, to what you're saying,
And so it might have been helpful to at least
tease that little bit. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it
sounds like the marketing they were trying to lean more
into the sort of supernatural thriller sort of thing. Yeah,
hide the fact that this had anything to do with
comic books.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
It's from the guy who made six Cents. It stars
the guy from six Cents. Yeah, if they could have
called it the seventh sense, they would have, right, right, Yeah, probably,
this whole sequence is so terrific, though the way you've
got Willis in in the background. He's framed perfectly, and
the scene is just playing out like you said, in

(15:32):
this long shot. And meanwhile in the foreground, we've got
this guy and we see or this person, I should say,
and we see him bleed out. Yes, I mean, just
just look at that right there. Yep, as the blood
stain dis grows and goes. That's how masterfully executed, you know.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
I mean truly, this is I think sixth sense. This
and Signs are Shyamalan at the height of his powers. Yeah,
you know, where he he can be a little showy
or whatever you want to call it, but like, when
he does it correctly, it works. Yeah, you know, it
makes you feel exactly what he wants you to feel.

(16:11):
And then he's done some other films where he's pushed
that a little too hard, maybe been a little too
confident or brazen, or not listen to other people's ideas
or thoughts or pinions on what he's doing, and then
it does become like, okay, you know what I mean,
It does start to feel a little bit more showy
than the perfect way to tell the story you want

(16:33):
to tell. But this movie, so yeah, I went into
this remembering that it was a very deliberately paced film
in its shot lengths and its editing and its performances
even I mean, everyone talks very slow and low, and
I was wondering if that would hold up or if
I would find that a little bit like, oh yeah,
I kind of remember he went for this, but otherwise

(16:54):
I enjoy it. But I found myself thinking it was
perfectly calibrated.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
I agree. I think the long takes really allow you
to appreciate the nuances of the performances. And you know,
I'm a big fan of when you've got a conversation
see or whatever and we're able to see both both
players or you know, the players involved within the frame. Yeah,
you get to see their real reactions, real time reactions,

(17:22):
without the intrusion of the edit. And so I think
that's something that that Shyamalan does here, and he does
it to a far greater degree here than he did
in The Six Suns, and it's it is very enjoyable. Now,
I have not revisited Signs in a while, so I
can't remember if he utilized a similar technique here, but

(17:42):
it's very effectively executed in this film, you know, So
I'm curious. I'm curious to see how much of that
he puts into science.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
If anything, Signs isn't as lingering as this movie is,
but it is still his very much, which his voice,
the voice we see in this movie. But I think he,
like I said, I mean, he knew what he was doing.
He was so on fire in that moment, and he
knew that what exactly what he's doing in this wouldn't
have worked for science. Signs needs to be a little
bit snappier, a little bit more humor pepper throughout, but

(18:16):
it still does feel very much like it's from the
same filmmaker.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
You know.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Another thing, too, is what I remember about this movie.
I want to comment on what we just saw. I
was like, whoa, that is some fish eye again. My
memory of this is him realizing he has more strength
than he realizes, and him and his boy putting you know,
all the weights on, and you know, of course his
mission at the end when he goes and tries to

(18:43):
stop that janitor and whatever. But what I had forgotten
about was, I mean, kind of what the movie's really about.
And it's themes I feel like resonated with me even
more as an adult and a big part of it is,
you know, an adult relationship deteriorating. That's very different than
like a teenage relationship falling apart. And like everything that

(19:04):
you know Bruce Willis and Robin Wright are doing, I mean,
it's just so grounded and realistic. And like you said,
there's there's an amazing moment where they're talking together through
a doorway and and it's this two shot and you
get to watch both of them just existing with one
another for a while.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
And so there's there's that, which is a lot of
what this movie is about. Oh, and why I wanted
to call what I wanted to call out was in
the hospital where you see the boy try to put
their hands together, to all the hands and as soon
as he turns around and they start walking, they let go.
I was like, oh, my heart. And then it's also
about feeling blah, you know, at a certain age and

(19:47):
you can't pinpoint why. And I was reading Shyamalan said
about this and the tone that he was trying to
strike while writing a quote unquote superhero movie. Well, no,
not quote unquote. He said, time I wrote a scene
that was two comic bushes comic bookish I yanked it out.
It became much more about that unexplainable feeling of grayness

(20:08):
when you wake up in the morning, that feeling of
somberness when you're not fitting in which to some extent
I was struggling with at the time. It became about
being out of sync, and so I kind of watched
it with a different sort of you know eyes, you know,
forty five year old eyes versus my twenty year old
eyes when I first saw this, Jeez, when you put

(20:32):
it like that, good lord, Yeah, I had just turned
twenty one when this movie came out. Okay, yeah, what
an exciting time, though. I mean so much as written
about the year nineteen ninety nine possibly being one of
the best years in cinema ever, and it's because there
were so many interesting and innovative movies that were released

(20:54):
by major studios, right, you know, and then I think
this is we're still doing it when you get a
movie like this.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Well, and definitely when you situate this on the continuum
of superhero movies, I think that too, is very interesting
because it arrives just a year after The Matrix, which
I consider that a superhero origin story. Sure, right, and
it's just after It's it's mere months after the first
X Men, which, if you want to point to a

(21:25):
play like I mean, granted, Blade came out two years earlier,
but let's be honest, it was X Men that kickstarted
the whole Marvel movie thing for sure. And so it's
this pivot, you know what I mean. So Unbreakable exists
in within that prior era, even as it just came

(21:45):
out just after the beginning of the new era. Does
that make sense? Huh? Yeah, you know, because because from
X Men to now, you know, the superhero paradigm has
completely shifted, and yet this movie is just five years
before Bamman begins.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
And thinking about that with James Newton Howard.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, yeah, right, And clearly Christopher Nolan is is I
have to believe he took inspiration from the grounded nature
of this story when he was telling his superhero story.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
For sure, or at least I have to imagine he
was really delighted by this movie. Yeah, this feels very
much in his arena. Yeah, this is just fun script stuff.
You know, where he gets the card on his windshield,
he doesn't know who it's from. Where, just asks this,
you know, he survives this impossible thing, this where a

(22:47):
train crash where everyone's died, and then he gets a
card from he doesn't know who that just says, have
you ever had? Have you ever been sick? What a
curious question, you know, And so then him going to
work and being the way that he does it is like,
oh have I ever how many sick days have I taken?
Just like that's his interesting way of trying to deduce that.
And then to have his boss show up like, fine,
you'll get a raise, Like I get what you're saying,

(23:10):
you haven't taken a sick day? Like what a more
interesting way to get that across, but that he's never
been sick, because then we get to see him at
work and we learn what his life is like at
work because we get to meet his boss. Also, it's
very clever stuff. Yeah, this stuff. So we know they're

(23:30):
in separate rooms, him and his wife.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's what I love, right, They're in the same frame
but in different rooms.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yes, that's great. Yeah, and just you know there's an
unease here, there's an unease with them period. But he
needs to ask her a question that only she could
answer for him. And you see a little bit of
a you know, not in a connection, but what you know,

(24:00):
familiarity that only like a husband and wife could could have,
you know, like a slight a mild barrier comes down
in this moment, right, because she's like, why, that's an
interesting question. I don't know. I guess I don't know
how to answer that question. It's just I don't know.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
This movie is so much more textured than I remember.
That's really true. Yeah, but I mean I think it's
reflective of just a quarter century of living, which I
think you and I have had, you know, until you're
able to be like, oh, okay, I see I see
where where he's coming from. I mean, I know what
it's like to not be sick a day in your

(24:34):
life and lift every weight in the house.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
I mean, I get it.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Me and David Dunn, we're not that sim dissimilar, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah. Yeah, it's also it's almost infuriating knowing that he
was twenty nine when he did this.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
I was thinking about that and I was like, you know,
we heard those those Spielberg comparisons back then, and you
realize why, right, because Spielberg was what seven when he
made Jaws, right, right, And Shyamalan was twenty eight when
he made six cents, so you know, there was sort
of a wonder can aspect to it.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
That's literally the word on my lips. Yep. Yeah, was
that when Signs was coming out that.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, it was. It was I believe it was Newsweek,
Oh news Okay that had him on the cover and
said the next Spielberg. And I remember seeing that being
like ooh.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Me too, Like no, I'm excited about this guy also,
but I thought I read somewhere that he actually reached
out to Spielberg.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
And was like that was not my idea, and Spielberg's like, yeah,
whatever and hangs up on him.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
He's like, yeah whatever. Do you remember the picture.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Spielberg being the guy on Reddit who's like talking shit
about him? He's he's like bugs Bunny and that Daffy
Duck cartoon. You know, ain't I Astinka? That's hilarious. Notice
how many shots in this film do through the reflection exposition.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
I was just going to bring that up.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, because even his birth is I was gonna say,
like the birth scene is, or the post birth I
should say, it's fantastic because the whole you'd think you're
seeing what actually is. But it's a reflection, and of
course it's always Elijah and and you know he's a
distorted reflection of David.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Right, yep.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
It's good stuff, yeah, yep.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
And I mean all this stuff too, is just so.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Potent, you know.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
It was it was putting a lump in my chest
or a lump in my throat last night, just this
poor boy. And there's that scene. There's a bunch of
deleted scenes from this movie. Do you remember the one
where he tries to go on that ride at the fair? Oh,
oh my god, it's harrowing, I know, because he wants
to ride this ride, and so he takes these stuffed

(26:54):
animals and in the very deliberate fashion you know that
this movie is shot, It just slowly like follows his
process of like, well, if I put these stuffed animals here,
and if I put my coat over this, you know,
protection bar, like I should be okay. And then as
the ride, oh, it's that you know, what do you
call it, like a centrifuge or something like the ride
that spins so the gravity forces you against the wall

(27:17):
and then slowly the stuffed animals come loose, and you're like, oh, no,
I know, and he's gonna get injured, and it's oh,
it's it's incredible filmmaking.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
But it did they cut it? I'm actually I mean.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
That scene with him falling down the stairs is that
it's hard enough exactly. I don't know if I could.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Take to them much much less seeing a little kid
go through it, exactly.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
But just this whole conceit is so sweet, Like she
buys in this gift, but like puts it on a
bench so he'll get out of the house to go
get it.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
And well, I'm just gonna put this out there. Maybe
she could have got him a pack of baseball card
or something and avoided a lot of this shit.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
That's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, I'm just saying mom bears some responsibility. I'm gonna say,
like thirty percent of everything. You know.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
That would be kind of funny if there was a
scene and she was like, so, what did you think
of the story, and he goes, well, I think you know,
they treat the bad guy in this comic unfair. I mean,
maybe he's got a point. I mean, maybe, you know,
And then she's like, oh, okay, there are two shots
in this movie that do find kind of obnoxious. This
is one of them. I gotta be I gotta be fair.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
So it's the camera turning turning.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
With the com I just don't see the point of
it other than it being sort of complicated and showy.
But but I you know, as we know, I'm a
huge Shamalan apologist, and so I stick up for him
and gush over him a lot. So I will call
out that shot. And there's another shot.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
That kind of annoys me later that I will call out.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
But otherwise a plus.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Well, the idea is he he has an upside down worldview,
and so the movie is putting us in his headspace
where somehow what's upside down looks normal. All right, that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Good, that's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Do you really believe that, No, that's coming up with
something I was gonna say that. Actually I'll buy that
and I'll go with it. You know. Well, here's another reflection,
so this scene here, yes, now, now, I have many thoughts.
First of all, I don't I think Elijah's response is
the correct one. Uh if if, even if he's a

(29:38):
little bit you know, brusque with with the customer. Right. However, well, well,
I mean this is not that's not something you put
up in a in a kid's room. Come on, now,
right I would I would have handled it more delicately.
But my point is is what kind of stupid ass
dad goes into a fine art gallery? This is I mean,
he's again he's right, no, lie, just right. This isn't

(30:01):
kids r us you know, you know it's a fine
art gallery. And he'll be like, oh, I want to
put this in my four year old Jeb to name
your son Jeb. Come on, now, you.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Know what's funny. I do remember like getting it, you know,
when I first saw it, But last night I was
sort of like, well, what if that was like, you know,
super like Action Comics number one or whatever. Like this
guy is a huge comic book fan, and he wants
or like a star imagine like a Star Wars original
poster or something from nineteen seventy seven that costs ten
thousand dollars or something. But it's like he wants his

(30:38):
son to grow up loving Star Wars like he does,
and maybe he has the means, and so that's his
way of you know, I'm gonna put this. This is
the beginning. This is the beginning of a journey. I
want to share with my son. That's actually how I
looked at it, and I was like, oh, I gotta
feel bad for this.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Okay, let me let me put this. You've been in
my cave, Yes, you've seen the things I have in
my cave. Now do I want my kids to be
into that stuff? Absolutely? Do you think I should put
any one of the things in my cave in the
room where my baby sleeps.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
I mean he don't know. Yeah, I'm truly. I mean,
like one of the I can imagine, like a Chewbacca
or something, just to sort of get them endeared.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Well, sure, but that's but that's my point. Something you
get from Walmart, not from you know, a high end gallery.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Don't get me wrong. I mean I this isn't something
I would do. But let me put it this way.
And why I actually kind of like this scene now
they think about it is I do actually feel a
little bit bad for the guy because you know, he
doesn't he's not like he's an idiot, Brian. I mean,
he seems sincere about what he wants to do. That's
a sincere decision. However, I do like that it helps

(31:51):
us understand Elijah in the way that he would never
like diminish. Anything that he sees is so valuable, those
cans aren't good enough for him, and so he's happy
to rudely say good day, sir.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
I think what they should have that guy, the guy
should have. He should have been like wearing a starter
jacket and like snapping gum. And that's why I hear you,
I hear you got that dork shit here.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
I mean that's kind of yeah. Actually that's what they
needed to do that maybe lean into that a little
bit more. And by the way, I don't actually even
think I never thought about this scene as much as
we're talking about it right now. But I did have
a feeling last night that I kind of felt bad
for him because I was like, well, maybe he wants
to share this thing that he's passionate about with his kid.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
He should My kid's a dork. He likes this dork
stuff for you is a dork store, right, he should
have They should have like really leaned into that.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
And if he was a really wealthy person and he
doesn't know the difference between high end dork stuff and
stuff he could get at Walmart, like you're saying, that's right,
that look, we just fixed it.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Night call us.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
So you know another thing. I mean, this is gonna
sound kind of obvious, but when I saw this in
two thousand, I was admiring all the framing and the
camera work, but I wasn't thinking as much about how
this is framed like a comic book. So much of
this movie, the framing is like panels in a comic book,
and I just didn't think about it. But now I

(33:14):
think it's more obvious to me.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, you know what's interesting is that that, certainly thematically,
you see echoes of something like Watchmen, right, you know, Watchmen.
You know, the character of night Owl and Watchmen is
dealing with this malaise of you know, trying to find purpose,

(33:38):
very very much in the vein of David Dunn. And
watching this movie it makes me think, man, you wonder
what somebody like Shyamalan could have done or would do
with something like Watchmen. Sure, you know, yeah, because obviously
they went in kind of a different direction. I won't

(33:59):
say anything about the person who made that movie. He's
got a different approach.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
That's funny. Yeah, you know, I haven't watched that in
a while, speaking.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Of I mean, I enjoyed it. I remember enjoying it
for me too.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
I mean it, frankly, i'd never read the comic before.
It brought me to the comic, which I really enjoyed.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, I do love the relationship, by the way that
between David and his son in this movie. You know,
like the way that the son really, i mean clearly
loves his dad, but the way that he like looks
up to him like a superhero throughout this movie. And
there's that great shot where he's David's reading the newspaper
and he lowers it and his boys just wrapped around
his chest, and the son so badly wants to believe

(34:42):
that his dad is this personal I just says he.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
I think that's a really interesting angle, and I think
Spencer treat Clark does a really good job.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah. Well we talked about this before. I mean, he
was in Gladiator a few months before this, so he
had a pretty good two thousand.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, he's looking up to a lot of male father
figure types in the Remember he really took the Maximus.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Fill in that niche Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
And then if people will remember in the movie Glass,
his son kind of becomes the guy in the chair.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
For him, that's right. Yeah. The continuing Adventures of David Dunn.
He has a name, don't They call him something like
the Watcher?

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Oh I forget, Yeah, I don't remember, but they do
give him sort of a superhero name.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
It is weird to think of Glass and realize that
that was probably like the last, or if not the last,
one of the last like performances where Bruce Willis was
fully present.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, recording this in twenty twenty five,
it's really difficult to think about.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah, I mean, I just saw an interview with his
wife who said he's he's nonverbal at this point, which
is really heartbreaking, you know.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, yeah, I thought I read something somewhere well, I mean,
nonverbal and also just doesn't remember that he had a
film career.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Man, that's really I mean, it's this is one of
those things where just unfortunately, as we get older, we
have to reckon with so many of our childhood icons,
lifelong icons just going away. But unfortunately, you know, I
think with Bruce Willis, in addition to that, it's the
fact that this illness means that he's already gone kind

(36:30):
of you know, in a lot of ways. I don't
know if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah, no, yeah, but I mean, like you said, I
mean a childhood icon. I mean so many. He made
an impact in a lot of people's lives through the entertainment.
He was a part of you know.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Well, and and you know, you realize that his association
with Shyamalan happened at a really or tune time, you know,
where he was transitioning into being more than just an
action icon, you know.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
And didn't he do that out of a contractual obligation?

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
How wild one of his defining roles. I mean, it
just worked in everyone's best interest. The way that that
came together, it's amazing. It's the Chekhov's gun checkofs guy.
I was I was reading a lot about this movie
in preparation, and someone was just like the checkouts gun moment.

(37:34):
It's like, literally, he just takes the gun, looks at it,
and puts it back.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
He should look, he should look right up to camera.
Everybody got that right.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
It works though, because he's looking in that area for something,
and it works. I like this shot, by the way,
from above in the closets frequently well.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
It reminds me of the john Ford moment in the Fablements.
Right if the horizon at is at the looks good.
If horizon at the bottom, it looks If it's horis
in the middle, it looks like shit, you know.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean this this movie just filled
with interesting photography.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, but I think to the point you made about
it feeling like comic book panels that I'll be honest,
I hadn't even clocked that.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, I mean it's pretty bang on in this. I
love this shot that low half the frame filled with.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Whenever you dirty the frame a little bit, right, it
looks the shot just it's just instinctively more interesting.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, there's just so much to look at, and there's
not much to look at, but it's also his face
is obscured by the folder, so we know he's engrossed
in it.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Just good.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
I just feel like this is my common complaint, and
I I'm not exactly right, because we see tons of
interesting movies these days still, but it just feels like
it was more common in big popular movies to see interesting,
dynamic stuff like this. That's right, you know, Yeah, like
the moments like this, this like really probably as a

(39:08):
twenty year old, I was just like, oh, that's nice.
His wife wants to hang out again, but like, this
is a really well written, well performed scene. Yeah, you know,
her being like, if you want to ask me out sometime,
you can do that.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, I mean there's there's this there's this sadness when
you see a couple that they clearly have love for
each other mm hm, but whatever spark they had seems
to have have faded away, and so it's kind of like,

(39:46):
what are we trying to keep alive here? You know?
I mean there is a sadness there.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, there's a golf, a real palpable golf. But because
these are such great performances captured so well, you can
sense the thread, the reason they feel something for one another,
and just seeing them try to repair this in her
performance here is just so amazing. Everything she's going through.
I mean, obviously she's experienced a lot of hurt, but

(40:14):
then she thought she might have lost him forever, and
now she's just saying, hey, you know, if you want
to ask me out again some time, maybe do that.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
It's just I don't know, it's just so rich and
I feel very mature for someone in their twenties to
write and to direct like this.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah. Yeah, very sophisticated. This role originally went to Julianne Moore,
which I can imagine. Yeah, oh easily, I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
I wouldn't change. I like Robin Wright a lot in
this movie, so I'm happy it's well.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Julianne Moore dipped to do Hannibal, which you can understand
from her perspective because she gets to be the lead,
you know. But but that being said, I mean, I
don't think anybody has particularly good feelings about that movie. Yeah,
so I think I think Robin Wright did okay. In fact,

(41:09):
probably the most dated thing about this movie is the
fact that she's credited is Robin Right, Penn.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Oh yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
There's a little stick pin in time right there.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Actually, I had to stop myself from saying Penn when
I said her name earlier, because I'm so used to that.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Oh how funny, I even right Pen? Yeah, see look
at this shot. I love this, you know, so observational
through the gate.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
It's funny, you know, him trying to sincerely reach out
to him again, then throwing his own joke back at him.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Give me your credit card? Yeah, now, did you go
into this expecting a twist? Ending?

Speaker 1 (41:52):
I wish I could remember. I don't remember. I really don't.
I mean, obviously by signs I did, sure, because that
had become his thing. I mean, even Elijah's mom.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Sort of like little I heard there's a twist ending
in this one.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Yeah, about the comic book he's looking at?

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Did you.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Not that?

Speaker 2 (42:13):
I remember? However, I definitely figured out that Elijah was
the bad guy.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Mmm.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
I mean not like at this point, but but definitely
by the end before the reveal, Right, I remember leaning
to my cousin who I went with, and I was like,
he's the villain. No.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
See, it's funny because I'm I'm sure I was surprised,
but watching it now, I feel like it's almost hard
not Yeah, how would you not clock that? I mean
even just the way he's dressed.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
I was about to say, he's wearing like a super
villain costume. Yes, yeah, And you know what's funny is that, like.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
You kin't.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
On the one level, You're like, why would he want
to fashion himself as a villain. He's like a comic
book guy, Like, wouldn't you want to be a hero? Right, Like, like,
if you're a comic book nerd, you're you'd be like, no,
I'm you know, I'm the hero of my story. Why
does he want to be a villain? Right? But look
at it through his lens. His act of heroism is

(43:18):
he had to do all that in order to give
the world this hero. Right.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
If not for him, David doesn't become a hero, which
is typically how villains think, right, right, Like their perspective
is they're coming from some sort of understandable place, right.
And then the other thing is, if you go to
comic Con or whatever, I would say, you see more
people dressed up like villains than than heroes because it's

(43:44):
more fun, it's more flamboyant, you know, yeah, sure, how
many how many Heath Ledger jokers do you see? You know,
that's that's a really good point. That's a great point. Yeah,
you know, I just I don't know this, you know,
it's funny. I had this thought because I just recently
read the book The Man Who Heard Voices, which is

(44:07):
basically following him night Shyamalan as he's making Lady in
the Water Lady in the Water, and he talks about
that being his bedtime story, and it really is in
a way, because it does feel like he's making it
up as he goes, and by the end you're sort
of like, I don't know where, you know, like and
then the end, you know. But I was like this,
there's something about this movie that I really love that

(44:29):
almost feels kind of like a bedtime story. It's if
you were to like say this movie back to someone,
it's very simple, you know. It's it's I don't know,
you know. There's this guy and then he works a
security guard and sometimes he gets these instincts like I
think that guy's a gun with a silver thing and
a black handle, and so the guy follows him and
it turns out he did. Like it feels like a story,

(44:51):
you could. It does kind of feel bedtime story in
that way, right, yeah. And then it's just so simple.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
But it's so this shot by the real quickly, what
a beautiful shot right here?

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Oh gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
So many times again, it's like two people in the shot.
It's framed in this interesting way. They're standing in this
kind of a doorway thing, and and we're not even
we're not cutting in at any point mm hmmm. We're
just letting the performance happen, you know. And anyway, I
wanted to clock that before before we moved on. Sorry,
go ahead, no.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
And you're just adding to my point where it's like
it is really simple on paper, but it's the performances.
It's the commitment from the filmmakers, from the performers, from
whatever that make this feel.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
So.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
I mean, this is kind of a silly idea, honestly,
you know what I mean, but like it's it's executed
with such gravitas and like sincerity that you just get
swept up and invested in it. And I think that
see cinema score from the ending and why my friend
hated it. I'll never forget my friend Adrian back in
the year two thousand. We walked out half of us

(45:55):
really loving it, and she was. She was literally telling
people on line for the next showing not to go,
and we were no kidding. I remember picking her.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Up and be like, no, stop, stop, Like how funny.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
But I think it's because the movie trips at the
end and interesting, this is a this is a tightrope,
like you're telling a story that is inherently kind of
could possibly be seen as silly, but you're doing it
so well and so convincingly and so sincere. And then
they accidentally kind of trip at the end, at the

(46:25):
very very end, the very very end. And I think
for me, and I was watching the Ebert and Roper
review last night. Ebert, it's like, well, the ending kind
of but like, oh man, this is a great movie.
And that's how I felt. I was like, you know,
I don't care, like I get it. That was a
great experience. But for some people that trip might have
been like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait, you know
what I mean? And then I think that's yeah, this

(46:49):
is one of the most harrowing scenes I can write this.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
This is harrowing enough. We didn't need that theme park.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Yes, So Dunn has said that he had a vision
of the person in the camouflage coat having a specific
type of gun, and of course Glass wants to know.
Elijah'll come alt Elijah out of respect, Elijah, don't be
like the kids. I was just watching his cane. But

(47:17):
Elijah has to know because this will prove his theory.
He's gone through so much. He sacrificed almost five hundred
people to find out if this guy is the guy
he believes him to be. So he has to know
if that guy has the gun. But he's got to
go down all these stairs very quickly, and his bones
are like glass and watching him try to hurry and
his feet slip, and the way that it's filmed and edited,
and then that shot, that twisting shot with the glass

(47:41):
cane smashing on the ground, h incredible.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Now I have to ask why on earth would one
have a glass cane? What possible practical application is there
for that?

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Because it would make excellent symbolism. It just the right moment,
which I read that that was Samuel L. Jackson's idea,
the glass kane. Yeah, all right, well then you got
to go with sam Yeah, purple lightsaber, glass kane. You listen,
he's a man who has his predilections. Yeah, yeah, I

(48:19):
do love though. Also how from the start again is
grounded as this is the world that we're living in here.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Well, by the way, I love how this is the
guy that that reporter was talking about, right, yes, the
agent on the agent excuse me, yeah, yep. But the
other thing where uh you know, when Joseph goes to David.
First of all, their dialogue is just playing out fully
in the background, which I love and I love the

(48:48):
rack focus here, but he's like, do you know how
your what your mother would say, if she knew I
saw you playing football, right, I was seeing it like, yeah,
she's a physical therapist, so she deals with this ship
like all the time. Yep, you know yep.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
I had forgotten about that component of it, that him
faking the injury, and they probably wouldn't have been together
if he had continued playing full's right, So that was
an opportunity for him.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
I loved the little thing though, of Joseph being like, yeah, no,
I'll help you work out. He's like, no, you don't, No,
I'm heppy. I'm helping my dad work out.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
It's cute.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
So sweet.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah, these these If you had asked me about this
movie before I rewatched it last night, I would have
been like, oh, it's great and told you certain things
about it. But I just feel like, well, this scene,
which is great, but I just I came away from
it appreciating it even more because I just had forgotten
how great the characters and their relationships to each other.
Mm hmm, Like the father son thing, the husband and

(49:43):
the wife thing. I just that was the stuff I
hadn't remembered as well.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
See the loading up the weights the barbells is like
one of those memories that stayed with me about this
movie since the first time I saw it, you know,
totally very distinctive.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yep, I love Yeah, even like the way that's framed
off screen. I think you could have beaten up Bruce
Lee just asking all these questions because Elijah incepted the
idea into his brain and now he can't get it out.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
The boy. But there's a naturalism slash unnaturalism that Shyamalan
constantly bounces between in all of his scripts. Totally right.
It diff like the one thing you can't say about
a Shamalan's script is that it was punched out by Ai. Yeah. Yeah,
because there's something so so esoteric about how he how

(50:34):
he has his characters internet, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
It's it's so true and sometimes it really works and
sometimes it really stands out.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Sometimes it's what no from the happening that's I think.
I think when you the metaphor used for a tightrope,
that could just as easily apply to Schamalan's career. Yeah,
Like for these first three movies he was able to
to stay on the right side of that tightrope. But

(51:03):
then once you trip, you really trip, you know.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah, the Village it was like he had already pulled
one too many punches, and this was a punch that
was just a little too asking, a little too much.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
The water. To me, the village is that sketch from
the Ben Stiller show Bad Twist ending theater remind me,
it's just again, it's like twist, twist, twist, like one
too many twists. And that's that's what makes you know,
that's what's funny. Yeah, and and that that's my recollection
of the Village.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
I didn't even watch The Lady in the Water.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Oh, it's it's not great, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
I would say from the Village on. I've I've definitely
not seen every Shamalan movie. I know you have. You're
you're like Ride or Die.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
I'm a Rider Die. Yeah, even when I don't like it,
I'm there opening day for the next one.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I've seen the visit. I've
seen Glass and but and Trap.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
And we had a fun conversation about that about a
year ago.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Yeah. He have you seen Split?

Speaker 2 (52:14):
I did not see Split.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Have you seen the ending of Split?

Speaker 2 (52:17):
On YouTube? I saw the ending of Split. Yeah, Okay,
that's the only part of Split. I've seen.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Yeah, I think this might be the shot that annoys me,
where the camera is sticking with the weights and going
up and down into his face, Like, I don't see
the need for this. I don't want to talk over
it so I can listen to you watch it.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Is that right? Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
I just I don't I was like, all right, all right,
but I mean if you were like starting to lose
your day, I'd be like, maybe we can like forego this.
But all that aside, the tone and the pacing and
the score and the performances in the scene are so fun.
It's like this little twinkly magical sort of thing between

(53:11):
a father and his son. You know, the son truly
believing his dad as a superhero and just keeps tacking
on more weight. Even this shot too, like this is cute,
the son leaning over into his dad's perspective, Like, dude,
it's very very nice.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
This is I mean the score, right, we alluded to
James Ehoward. It's the I mean, it works very well
with the film, but it also works as its own
experience because the motifs are so strong. Yep, I love
the sort of the heroic theme you know, oh it's

(53:53):
so good.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
This, this and sixth sense. I had those scores and
just like listen to them like regular music in my
dorm room. It is it's weird that James Newton Howard
doesn't get talked about the same way like you're John
Williams and his or your Jery you know, like you're
James Horner. Is that you know, like, yeah, he should
be one of those names that comes up with like
the five or six or seven people you talk about

(54:15):
right like that.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
That is weird to me because he's he's been like
so consistently good.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Completely. I completely agree that. By the way, that is
such an incredible I mean, I would like to think
that was in the script. But David realizing he's stronger
than he ever knew. Hard cut. There's Elijah broken in bed.
He's the opposite. Oh wrenches my heart, but he's on

(54:49):
his way like I actually I paused it. And the
shot when he falls down the stairs and he sees
Elijah sees that that man does have the gun that
David envisioned, right I I. And it's filmed up side
down or Elijah's upside down on the stairs and you
see his head upside down.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
I pause.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
I was like, I have to know what Samuel Jackson
is doing. What's the expression he makes during this? And
it is a very like he's probably like shutting down
because of the pain, but there is just the slightest
of satisfaction and this almost becomes kind of uncomfortable. Now

(55:27):
he's getting he's getting into David's life here, but it's
just by chance, right I you know, I mean I
don't Yeah, I guess it would be difficult. The way
I thought of it last night was he tried to
maybe worm his way to her specifically, but I don't

(55:48):
know how one would do that. Yeah, But obviously he
has a lot of questions for her now, like he's
not getting what he needs out of David, so he's like,
all right, gotta gotta talk to his wife.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Right.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
You know, I didn't know this, but I was reading
the Osteogenesis imperfecta, you know, the disease that he has, yeah,
which makes his bones less dense and fragile. I didn't know.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
But there's.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
This Australian celebrity, Quinton Kenahan, Okay, and he's the guy
we see in Mad Max Fury Road. He's a little
person and he's in that chair and he's talking into
like a megaphone or whatever. Oh yea, so he has
he has that. Yeah, I didn't know that. Oh my gosh,
can't imagine. It's an easy life.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
But I didn't know it was a real thing. I
thought it was just made up for the movie.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
So did I I was, I didn't know, so I
looked it up.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
But yeah, I don't know a lot about him other
than what I've read because he was in Mad Max
and whatever. But apparently, I mean, people can write in
and correct me or or add to this. But in
Australia he's he's a bit of a celebrity over there.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Okay, So but how common is this illness that I
don't know? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Yeah, So now we're learning the car You know, it's funny.
I there's the car accident component in this, and there's
also a car accident in signs. And there's also the
water component, water being like a threatening thing.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Yeah, in both. I was thinking of the water aspect.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
It was making me like, oh, he's kind of got
like these hooks in his brain?

Speaker 2 (57:36):
Is this the shemalin Shemalan came?

Speaker 1 (57:40):
So at what point did we know what he looked
like and it'd start going, oh.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
I recognize I. I clocked him in the sixth sense
because he's the doctor, right, And I didn't realize it
was him, but I reckon. I was like, oh, Indian guy,
because like that's what happens when you're a brown person.
You're like, oh that sure, sure, And then I saw
him in an interview I was like, oh, okay, that's him,

(58:06):
and so by this time I knew it was him.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
You know, I have a feeling I kind of have
a memory of knowing that, yeah, this is good, So
this is like him.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
I like it too.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
I had forgotten this because I remember that David can
get these visions when he touches people and he so
then I was kind of thinking like, well, how does
he not? And this feels like something you'd be very
aware of. But he with the first time it happens
with the man with the gun. He's telling Elijah it's
just like a feelings and Elijah says something about sharpening it,

(58:40):
and I had forgotten about that component of it, like, oh,
so this is something that if he works on it,
it will become stronger, which.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
It'll be more than just a feeling.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
It'll be a vision, yeah, which he's now starting to have, right,
because I don't think he even sees anything more with
that mother and the boy, but he it's more heightened
than the slightly imperceptible vision of the gun he had earlier.
And then eventually it'll be come with the drug dealer.
He can actually see that's right.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Yeah, but I think you know the Shyamalan thing. It's
funny because it became like escalating like his roles, you
know what I mean, Like it was that's really it.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
We've joked about this before, but I'm sorry, father.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
That'xt the what I always think of in science.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Yeah, and I remember watching that. I remember I saw
an early screening of that with Sean and I remember
just being like, oh, dude, like why would you give
yourself such an important role in this movie?

Speaker 1 (59:43):
Yes, we were explaining so much that's happening in the movie,
like this is like it's like whatever, I'll go with it. Yeah.
I always do find it funny though, when you're watching
I'm trying to think of other examples, but when the
director is in the film and you're watching the actor
you've been following the whole time, talking that character because
I always think it's weird. It's like, oh when nailed cut,

(01:00:03):
like that person is telling the main guy what to do,
right Otherwise, Like, I just find that it's a funny real.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
World thing that gets into my head when I see
stuff like this. See well, it's as we're recording this,
I literally just watched Do the Right Thing like an
hour ago. Oh in my class, right, and that that
is a situation where Spike Lee gave himself the lead role.
Yeah right, right right, And you know, the seams show
a little bit because he's not a professional actor, But

(01:00:33):
I think it works in the context of that movie
because the movie itself is kind of spunky and you know,
you know, unrefined, you know, and so his his lack
of experience kind of works for that character, you know.
And so so I'm I'm like the most generous reading,
like maybe Shyamalan was trying to do a Spike Lee

(01:00:56):
as mooky situation.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
You know, Oh, that's interest sting. I didn't even think
of it that way. For some reason, I'm thinking of
that line from pulp fiction to Samuel Jackson where he's like,
you know, personality goes a long way and it's like,
you know, maybe there's something too where it's like maybe
he's not super refined, but he's got a lot of personality.
Personality goes a long way.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
I mean, I Spike definitely and do the right thing.
That's what.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Yeah, sorry, I was talking about Spike Lee.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Yeah. Although it's funny because you talk about pulp fiction,
and I would say one of the worst parts of
that movie is Quentin's role in the as the the
N word saying guy, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
I mean, yeah, I know. I mean, I'll say it
like sort of vacillates for me. Like there's some things
he does in there that I do find kind of amusing,
you know, And it's like what does he look like Jimmy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Or what they look like? Dorks? Look like a couple
of dorks.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Like that's kind of funny. And then the coffee thing too,
like you know, I buy the coffee. You know my wife,
I know my coffee's good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
We're talking about Tarantino and and you know, there's a
video that I saw where he's talking about this movie
and he's like Unbreakable by m Night Shamalama ding dong
h And I'm like, I don't know, man, that seems
kind of racist to me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
I had actually not long ago, someone I said something
about Shyamalan and they said that, and I was like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Hmm, right, Like, I mean, I don't know if he's
okay with it, but I am like, it's I'm like,
what you're saying not not your friend, but Quentin. I'm like,
what you're saying is more complicated than his actual name.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Yes, I know, I know. It feels a little dismissive, right,
you know, kind of like it felt odd to me
to have Tarantino saying that about, you know, a colleague basically, yeah, exactly,
a colleague. Yeah, appear, Yeah, it feels I don't know,
like again, let's stipulate maybe they know each other and
it's hilarious between them. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
If I were to guess, I would say that Shyamalan,
as an Indian kid growing up in Philadelphia, probably heard
that shit all the time time when he was in
junior high in high.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
School, right, right, That's that's my guess, right well, and
even I mean, that's that's part of his story, right,
I mean, night was something that he added himself because
it was a little easier for people to say and
he kind of adopted that for himself, So you have
to imagine that comes from some sort of experience where
people aren't saying his name correctly and right. But yeah, man,

(01:03:28):
don't love it, and I also don't love everything Garantino
doesn't pulp fiction.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Or says I should say, We're gonna have to come
back and talk through that movie.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Oh man, I watched like the last thirty minutes, if
the last thirty minutes of that movie on TV.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
That's it. That's what I'm Oh, yeah, absolutely thinging the diner. Dude,
give me, give me Sam Jackson sitting across a table
from Tim Roth for days. Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
I was actually thinking, I've probably seen this movie like
ten times something like that all the way through. But
that scene I'm sure I've seen at least twenty times.
Like I always stop on it. It is just mesmerizing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Yeah yeah, and that's I mean, it's the same thing
here right again. When you have great performers with interesting
dialogue to say, just turn the camera on and let
them do their thing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Mm hmmmm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
I do like the sorry real quick, the authenticity of
of just shooting in Philadelphia. It reminds me of rocky
you know, m yeah, very you know, these just lived
in streets. It's it's it's not showy, but it feels
it feels real. You know, this house, I feel like

(01:04:42):
I've been in this house, you know. I mean I've
been with Philadelphia, but this feels like a house that
we've we visited, you know, many times. Totally Oh this
right here, this scene.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Yeah, I was gonna talk about something else, but I
was like, nope, can't hit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Pause on that. So this see, So you got Joe's
if who's holding Chekhov's gun and he's like, well you're
a superhero dad, so I'm about to shoot you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
So yeah, yeah, so good.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Well what I love is a couple of things, right,
the way that plays out in just one shot, right, yes,
But the fact that David is not like I'm not
super you idiot, or you're gonna kill me. He's like
he's trying to not tear down the kid's illusion while

(01:05:33):
still making clear, hey don't shoot me, you know, And
that's a trick. And actually I was reading that this
is inspired by a real thing that happened to George Reeves.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Oh really that yeah, well, you know actor who played Superman.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Who played Superman. I think has alluded to a little
bit in Hollywood Land. I haven't seen that movie, but
you know, kids would be like, oh, Superman, let me
shoot you and so at some show or whatever where
he showed up, because he would show up in costume,
and back then, apparently it was a lot easier for
kids to get a hold of guns, just like well,
I guess that has changed actually, But basically he's like, hey,

(01:06:08):
you know, if you shoot and it bounced off me,
somebody else could get hurt, right, And the kid puts
down the gun. You know, wow, can you imagine?

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
No, I mean this scene. So I remembered this scene,
like if you asked me to list five sixteensmths movie.
I remember this. But rewatching this last night, I was like,
this is making my like I am clenching. This is
so uncomfortable and like like a couple steps into like
an idea that is so realistic and so dangerous and

(01:06:42):
so uncomfortable that it's making me really really uncomfortable to
watch it, but in a good way.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
Right, But I didn't see that was our first cut
right there?

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Yes, right, I didn't remember the whole escalation with the
boy and his belief and his dad. So he hears
this story from Elijah and then we see him, you know,
hugging his dad reading the paper later and then he's
just like, you know, you know, maybe we try these weights,
and he's like, well, it could hurt me. He's like, yeah,
but let's just try. And then he's like, well, I
want to be like you at school. So I was

(01:07:16):
trying to defense like but the dad keeps, you know,
kind of turning him down with this idea. So eventually
it's like, I'm going to prove it to you, dad,
and you know, I'm going to point this gun at you.
I love there's this funny line too, and the MILLI
He's like, I'll only shoot you once.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
It's like, in a kid's head, that makes all the
sense in the world.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
But I was reading Spencer Tree Clark talking about it.
There's an oral History in Entertainment Weekly several years ago.
It's really good and I recommend it. But he was
talking about that scene. So this is quoting Clark. He says,
there's that scene in the kitchen where I'm holding the
gun up to Bruce Willis. It's a four minute scene
all in one take, and we filmed it nine times.

(01:07:57):
It was so taxing on all of us, and not
just because it was an emotional scene. Eduardo Sierra, who
is our cinematographer, with sweating bullets, and then Shyamalan picks
up on that and he goes the camera operator at
one point walked off the set because I was like, no,
you have to pan here with his line here, and
he goes, you're anticipating here. You have to listen to

(01:08:18):
the actors, and he says the guy stormed off and
was like, I'm sorry. Oh, so Shaman was like, I'm sorry,
come back, and Shaman was saying I felt like the
world was going to come to an end if he
didn't move at this point or didn't slow down at
that point. I remember feeling like, I don't know if
I can do the entire shoot like this. Wow, And
I mean, can you imagine working with see This is

(01:08:38):
something reminds me about making movies when I was a kid,
because and I'm sure you could speak to this too.
You were the one holding the camera. You were doing
exactly what you wanted. And so when I got older
and realized that that's not how filmmaking worked, Like you
hire a director of photography, you have camera operators. I
remember thinking, oh, that'd be so frustrating because I would
know exactly what I want. But I have to trust
that a chain of command is going to lead to

(01:09:00):
this one person doing exactly what's in my brain. Yeah,
and it sounds like that's exactly what was happening here.
Shamlan knew exactly when he wanted the camera to move.
It was all intuition and instinct in his brain, and
he was frustrated that this other human being didn't have
the precise intuition and instinct that he had.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
And real quick, I should say, these these six comics
that we see right in the foreground here, yes, I
have every single one of those. Do you really I know,
I know exactly what comics those are.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Oh that's great.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Do they like themes?

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Do they have anything to do possibly with a story.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
Or is it I mean only in a very broad sense, right,
I mean, it's just just in that they are superhero
stuff and you got you got it because it's Daredevil,
Spider Man and Punisher, HM and and all Marvel stuff.
So that that itself is very interesting that this movie
center is on like made up. Well, they're all made up,
but like made up for the movie characters.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Right, They never say Batman or Super.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
Yeah, but the only comics we see are Marvel. So
I wonder if that was some kind of a agreement, like, fine,
we'll let you use our comics, but you have to
only use our comics kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Oh, that makes sense because there was a an action
comics looking thing at the beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
It was active comics exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
Yeah, okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
So we we talked past the the shamal On cameo
and I wanted to mention you know that that character
ends up being a runner through this whole trilogy because
we see him again. We see him again in in Split,
but we also see him in Glass where and he
recognizes David and he's like, hey, I remember you. You

(01:10:38):
used to work at that stadium, and you know I
turned my life around after meeting you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
I don't even remember.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
That that part I did remember. Now this part hurts
me where he just like actively stopping the guy from
taking him out of the store, and meanwhile, these comics
are just getting wrecked and.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
I was thinking about them rolling over them.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
I was like, oh, so this is Elijah's angst because
David in fact nearly died, yes, the pool accident. Yeah,
so so he's this is him throwing a tantrum over
that realization. Basically is it the pool?

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
And he also heard about the car accident, right, and
he he doesn't know the truth yet, right, that he
faked that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
Yes, but I think this is in reference to the pool.
I think, okay, yeah, because yeah, that was like he'd
forgotten about that. David had forgotten about that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Yeah, I forgot because yeah, we were talking through it,
but he went and confronted David confronted Elijah at the shop.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
Yeah, he's like, hey, my son tried to kill me,
so knocked that shot.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Yeah, no, just going. I was just thinking about we
got a little brief scene where the David and his
wife are going to go out to dinner and then
telling the kid, and I was just thinking, like, man,
that kid got off pretty uh for literally talking a

(01:12:00):
handgun and pointing it at his dad. Yeah that was
I like that shot though, by the way too, with
the low angle with the wheelchair getting pushed through, and.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Yeah, yeah that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
Sorry, yeah gohead.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
No, I was saying, doesn't this kind of remind you
of the six sends a little bit of the restaurant
in there.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Yeah, totally same vibe. I wonder if it is, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Very similar.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Yeah, but this is sweet. I agree seeing them reconnect.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
She's a Prince fan. That's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
That's right, good, good music taste, Robin Wright. You know,
it's so funny because I think, of of course, Jenny
from Forrest Gump and House are.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Aka one of the worst people in movie history.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
All right, So you know, I was literally I don't
know why, Oh, because it's playing in theaters this month
and I want to go see it. And I was
just thinking about that movie, and I was thinking, we
need to do a commentary, and I was thinking, if
we did, I would have to be prepared for the
Jenny conversation, and not just not because of you, but
just because she is so some would say polarizing. I

(01:13:11):
would say a prism, and I should say I got
there way before the world, because I.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Remember watching that on home video in ninety four or
five whenever I saw it on BHS, and I was like, man,
she's awful, and it's hard for me because I love
Robin Wright. I think she's incredibly sexy, you know, I've
loved her since Princess Bride, you know. Yeah, so I
understand where forrests coming from. But I'm also like, god,

(01:13:40):
she is the worst.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Okay to be continued, I have a I have a
take on her, and it's a little more generous.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
I'm looking forward to hearing it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Yeah, yeah, but that you actually mentioned it. But I
was gonna say the movie I always forget is Princess Bride,
And not because I forget the movie, but I don't
think of it like, oh, that's the same person. That's Jenny,
that's yeah House of Cars, like she just I know
she's much younger in that, but I just I always
forget that. That's that's Robin right, Yeah, I mean that

(01:14:15):
was like a thing that was a thing until it
wasn't anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
Yeah, well, Kevin Spacey, sure, it's almost like it collapsed,
like a like you know, you know, something that collapses.
I don't know, I'm sure the phrase will come to me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Sorry, what were you saying?

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
No, I love that Robin Wright has never stopped working,
you know, and she's you know, she's just a consistently
good performer and and you know, to to whatever extent
I mean, I think this character, you know, I mean,
she doesn't get a ton to do, but I think
what she gets.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
To do matters. I agree, I agree. I think again
this viewing, I appreciated her in this movie more than
I think I ever have, realizing how much she's bringing.
Even though she doesn't get a ton to do, she's
bringing a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
Like I remember being disappointed that she wasn't in class
and that they killed off her character in between. I
wasn't a fan of that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
Yeah, I remember that too, I do remember that. Yeah,
this babysitter is kind of funny. Yeah, it's like, you know,
she finds out through the answering machine that they might
be moving. She's like, yeah, so thanks for telling me.
And then she walks outside it's raining. She's like, oh great,
so funny. What a funny, little memorable thing. You know,

(01:15:40):
So you give the actress something to do. You know
something else I wanted to bring up real quick because
we've been talking about this in our regular episodes. So
this movie had a budget of seventy five million. Yeah,
it made under one hundred million in the US only
ninety five million.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
Remember that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
Yeah, Worldwide, about two hundred and forty eight million. And
what we've been talking about is, you know people who
compare movies by their box office and say, basically, this
movie won because it made this much at the box office,
or this movie lost because it only made this at
the box office. But what we were saying recently was, yeah,

(01:16:21):
but movies have long, long, long lives after box office,
and it's funny that if we're going to look at
that as some sort of worth for a film, it's
interesting that we're just looking at one brief moment in
time for that film that's right right the box office.
So I looked it up and Unbreakable so world you know,
under hundred million US two hundred and forty eight million worldwide,

(01:16:44):
made one hundred and twenty three million on home video amazing, Right,
So that's way more than it made in the US alone, Right,
So it's just value whatever you want to call it, earning.
It doesn't end when the box office ends. It continues
and it can be even more right after life, and

(01:17:06):
so it's it's global. Theatrical home video puts it almost
closer to four hundred million, amazing, which is well crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
This is something that Shamalan talked about where the movie
came and you know, it came and went and it
did whatever it did, but it really like this. You know,
this was at the peak of DVDs.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah right, and they and they.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
Put out, you know, a pretty pretty loaded special edition
disc and I remember that. Yeah. It came in like
a digit pack you folded open and there was like
I remember there were like little little lobby cards painted
by Alex Ross.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
Oh I don't remember that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a pretty sweet deal,
I remember, And that was probably two thousand and one,
I'm guessing. And regardless, I mean it, it just it.
It had a very healthy home video afterlife, to the
point where, you know, he talked about this before how
he meant this as the first of a trilogy and

(01:18:09):
you know, this was Act one or whatever, and the
movie's performance didn't really warrant a sequel and so you
just forgot about it. But he said that just he
was constantly asked about whether there was going to be
an Unbreakable sequel.

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
I remember that that would come up a lot with him.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
The funny thing, though, is is I always felt that
the movie was fine as is, like it didn't need
a follow up, and this is completely separate from what
I think about Glass. But I'm just like, in general,
I'm like I, you know, I almost thought it worked
better as just as a one and done.

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
I kind of agree because I remember always thinking, well,
where do you go from here? It can only like
betray the groundedness that you set up. Yeah, and this,
because then it will just have to get a little
crazier or something like this.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
This sequence, No, no, I just like this on its own, yeah, right,
And I like the sequence on its own, by the Yeah,
it's good. The music in this whole scene is terrific,
by the way, but yeah, the well, and I guess
we'll be able to thread back to this when we
get to the ending. But I think this film's ending
is almost an admission, like, well, this is how it

(01:19:22):
would play out in real life, Like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
Right, right, right right, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
So, and again I want to say that that's completely
separate from what I thought of Glass, which I like you,
I have not revisited it since it came out, but
I remember being being underwhelmed by it when I did
see it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
Yeah, it almost felt My memory of it was it
was a lot of people sitting in a room just
sort of talking. You know, there's like a psychiatrist and
three people in a chair. Just I was like, this
is not what I imagined. And then basically everyone's dead
by the end, and I was like, that's right, what
are you doing? Sorry spoiler, but sorry guys truly if

(01:20:03):
you guys haven't seen it. But I am a little
curious to go back and see if I'll be a
little more Yeah, if I can try to get on
its wavelength now that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
I know we've done a six years of living in
the interim, see if that's a change.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
Yeah, and that and then and just revisiting this and
liking it so much, I'm in the universe, so I
may as well, you know, go back for Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
Well, Shyamalan talked about how initially the the the Kevin
Crumb character from Split was supposed to be the villain
in this interesting which and he said, very different, very different,
he he he took out like twenty pages from this
and just put them in Split.

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
Fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Okay, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
By the way, this I don't even want to call
it dreams flashback. I guess films really really effectively, like
like so brilliant that you're not even thinking about how
brilliant it is, Like it does feel slightly dreamlike. You've
got these two actors who do kind of resemble our
main actors enough, but they're obscured perfectly, right, so you

(01:21:14):
just hear their voices, which I think is tweaked Bruce Willis,
that's right. But yeah, but it's also you're not distracted
by any of that either, you know, it's just it's
very effective, and we're finally getting to see the thing
that they've alluded to a couple times throughout this movie,
this car accident that was a big moment in their lives,

(01:21:35):
and we got to see the superhuman strength.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
And by the way, this when it slows down here
and we see this actor's face, I mean, come on, man,
he like right, he does look like he give you
Bruce Willis's son amazing. And that's a woner to get
all that perfectly. I wonder how many takes a head
to do.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
By the way, so the comic book that Elijah was
looking at that was like his light bulb moment. It's
called Sentry Man, and I kind of love that. And
this is not intentional, it couldn't have been, but the
characters David and the Sentry are very similar, like Marvel Centry, right,
because you know we saw the Sentry and Thunderbolts, right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
In the in the comic books, he's a little different, right.
He's a guy who who was a superhero. He was,
but he's he he he has through through various shenanigans.
He has that's been erased from his memory. So he
goes through life just moros and feeling like there's something missing.
And it's the fact that he's a superhero. You know. Again,

(01:22:42):
that's just a weird coincidence because they couldn't have planned that.
But interesting, this this sequence is one of the best
in the movie. I love the kind of you know,
the sort of crucifixion pose that he he puts on,
you know. Yeah, but just the music is so great.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
So it's lit incredibly, the tone is incredible. Yeah. Yeah.
The use of color, Yeah, I was thinking about it earlier.
I mean, how perfect a superhero whose weakness is water.
His uniform is a trench coat, yep, or a raincoat.
A raincoat. Yeah, you know red.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
Shamalan loves his red and I remember that from the
sixth sense. I also like, you know, he he's getting
inklings of all these people's evil, but he has to decide,
like what's the what do I intervene in? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
Yep? Yep. Well, and also those things are kind of
over with, but then he kind of catches something that's
still active, right right right, But this is this is
see and this is what is interesting about Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
I like this.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
I mean even just that slow the reframing and the
push in and seeing his arms go out like this,
and even you know, as a hero figure, the look
of that sort of the cloak like look of that
rain jacket and everything it just does. Look it cuts
a striking figure, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
Oh it's great. I mean in this, in this you know,
grounded world, that's his superhero costume.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
Yep, it's perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
This movie is so ahead of its time.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
So I wish everyone could have like seen it the
way that they would look at it now, because I
think it would have been even more beloved. But see, now,
this is what's interesting is because now that he's going
to become a superhero in this very very grounded movie,
well what kind of things is he going to encounter?
And all this stuff is really really unpleasant, Like this

(01:24:44):
is real world evil.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
Yeah, you know this here this sexual assault.

Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
Thing, and then the and then what we get to.
That's the thing that I remember. You know obviously the
people who are being held captive at their house. It's
really upsetting. But but that's why it works, you know.
That's that's what this movie is, right. You know. It's
not someone who's just gonna like try to make mess

(01:25:11):
with a switch track and have two trains go and
collide into one another, you know what I mean, Like,
it's this is like really really disturbing crap.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
I remember around this time. I mean this is when
I was at Columbia and one of one of my
loglines or pitches was like a quote unquote realistic superhero story.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
And and I.

Speaker 2 (01:25:33):
Remember the weekend after this came out, a friend of
mine's like, hey, Zachy, they made your movie.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
I was like, I know, son of a, how unnerving
is that with the guy opening the door.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
And oh, dude, like it. I remember it creeped me
out twenty five years ago and then watching it watching
the movie again, I was dreading that part. Isn't that weird? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
Yeah, but that's it. It's like you can that's a
nightmare that you can imagine, you know, like happening. And
I mean, now, I you know I always talk about
I know we're both like this, but I just one
of my favorite things is just fantasy in the real world,
you know, And that's what this is.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
Like.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
It's just a slightly elevated fantastical sort of thing but
in a very real world. It never betrays the groundedness
of real life in this It just introduces these interesting
fantastical elements to it. But this is great. I mean,
like I was saying, great use of color.

Speaker 2 (01:26:36):
You got that woman in the red and it's a
guy in the orange here, the Orange Man as he's
known on the soundtrack. Oh. Really interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Oh something else I thought was really cool that Shyamalan
talked about it's a great shot right there. Oh so great.
And then the flair Yeah you were saying no, no, no,
just when he had like a full fee behind how
to film his visions And this is quoting him, he says,
my theory was to shoot his visions from a security
camera angle to evoke a feeling that you're catching wrongdoing inadvertently.

(01:27:12):
There's something about that angle that we associate our terrors with.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
That was like interesting yeah, kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
You know, if it was just sort of like a
handheld sort of thing and seeing that guy moving around
the house, you know, it could be terrifying in a
certain way. But just seeing that high angle thing that
looks like it could be from like a security camera.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
And the speed is there's like a jitter.

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
Yeah right, Yeah, there's just something Yeah, like we're watching
something that was captured that we shouldn't be looking at.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Yeah, it's perfect right there. Yes, Bruce with the shadow
over his eyes. I mean that's like a quintessential superhero look.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
Right, yep, like a Batman or something.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
Yeah, so what I mentioned before, I mean I remember
the DVD set that came with those those painted cards.
It was you know, it was Bruce willistre imagine that,
but painted by Alex Ross.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
Right. See that's the thing, because now that I'm more
familiar with Alex Ross, I'm eager to look those up
and see them.

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
Yeah, let's see if I can find them. This whole
sequence to pretty brilliantly played out, where again we get
these long takes but also no music. You know this,
and then you know the fight that that happens in
a little bit. I really you appreciate it even more

(01:28:27):
now just how completely you know, it avoids the tropiness
of like some choreographed thing or whatever. There's there's just
a raw brutality to it, which is more reflective of.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
Like what it would likely be, right Oh yeah, yeah,
the fight, Yeah absolutely, and even just the deliberateness, the patience.
You did not have to speed things up or make
interesting angles to captivate us here, we're already captain because
I mean, this is such a great long shot here

(01:29:02):
of him walking through this house, because it's like we
do feel like we're standing in a place we don't
understand that they're watching him walk through a house he
doesn't know, like we were getting that. It's evoked here.
Oh this stuff too, like this, the shadows, and I
mean this, this is why I'll show I don't care

(01:29:23):
what he makes. I'll just always show up. Because at
the very least I'm hoping for another one of these. No, no, no,
At most i'm hoping for another of these. But at
least I'm hoping that there's at least one moment that
touches this, and if it does, I am happy. Have
you gotten that with his recent you know, yeah, I
would say, at least there's been moments. I think it's

(01:29:46):
interesting how his tone has kind of changed over the years.
I mean, they do feel a little more intentionally campy.

Speaker 2 (01:29:52):
Sure, Trap, certainly trap.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
Yeah, you know, but he like cabin in the I
always say it wrong, not at the cab and in
the woods.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
That's not knock at the cabin, right, yeah, I confuse
it with the other one. Isn't it a knock at
the cabin?

Speaker 1 (01:30:08):
I think so, But I actually thought that was one
of his best in recent years. It's just I mean,
it's an unpleasant movie, unfortunately, but it's really the cabin,
by the way, not at the cabin, but it's it's him.
His gifts are on display in that movie telling that story.

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
So this, yeah, this imagery like kids tied up to
it's really upsetting, but it feels like it belongs in
this movie, and and it's very satisfying seeing him conquer
what feels like a real life monster.

Speaker 2 (01:30:47):
Right right, yeah, Well that's exactly it. I think the
that's the ironic thing. I mean, the mission statement of
this movie cannot be more clear. And yet that was
something that that Disney was basically like, sh sure don't
talk about what the movie's actually about.

Speaker 1 (01:31:04):
Right, See. I even love this with the drapes.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
Oh, it's great.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
I mean I could imagine someone getting tripping over this
and being like this feels a little too I don't know,
forced or something, or someone in love with what they're doing.
But like I'm like, yeah, but it works.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
No, No, for this, it absolutely works. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
I mean we've got these billowing drapes in the wind
and they part to reveal what's in the room behind
them to tell us what we need to know. We
see David entering, then the drapes cover him. Then the
drapes open on the other side, and we see this
woman tied to a radiator and say, oh gosh, this
is horrifying. That smash cut to the guy ugh and again,

(01:31:50):
I mean, we're watching a superhero moment. We're watching super
or Kryptonite get shoved in Superman's face, but it's filmed differently.
What I love is that the weakness totally makes sense too, right,
Like he's got such dense bones that of course he
would drown.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
Hmm. Like it's it's a logical weakness, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
I didn't even think about that oh, I see the
pictures you sent me.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
Yeah, so cool, isn't it neat? Yeah? I got it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
This did make me oh, no, go ahead, go ahead, no, no,
go ahead, no this no, please, we should talk about
this at a hand.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
It's it's it's freaking terrifying that that overhead shot of
him with on the water with the tarp. I mean,
that's like that's nightmare sauce right there.

Speaker 1 (01:32:38):
Yeah, that's nightmare sauce for us. Yeah, exactly on that
tarp on top of the pool. And then yeah, the
way that it shows each like it's slowly slipping over
the edge of the pool, so it's going into the
water and enveloping him and bringing him to the bottom,
and that'd be scary for us. But then knowing that
he has an extra hard time in water, I mean,
this should be the end. But then of course we
get the pole going through the wall because he untied

(01:33:00):
those kids and the kids get him out.

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
There's there's the line earlier in the movie where Elia
just says like, oh, it's it's your kryptonite, and that
just it made me think of the in Superman The
New Superman where they got that one there. It's like
the Lex Luthor's talking to the talking the round table,
and one guy's like, what's that? What's his kryptonite? It's
called kryptonite. That made me laugh.

Speaker 1 (01:33:29):
It's so funny because as horrifying as his whole sequence is,
there is like a feeling of levity in this moment
seeing the two kids just sort of standing side by side.

Speaker 2 (01:33:37):
Here, I was wonder about that. I'm like, why aren't they?

Speaker 1 (01:33:39):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:33:40):
Why are they? What was the direction there? You know what?

Speaker 1 (01:33:43):
For me, this ties into the comic book framing. Watch this,
like how he stands, then we get his boots planted
in the ground in the cape, and then the two
kids looking at him like he's a damn hero.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
So you think that's Bruce Willis or is that a
body double?

Speaker 1 (01:33:56):
That is a fantastic question. If he got out of
the pool in that same shot, which I think he
probably about a double, just a guess with this, good lord,
it's like, see so.

Speaker 2 (01:34:07):
This here now think about the the the prevised, choreographed
version of this fight, yes versus just raw brutality one shot? Yes,
you know, and I love that he's got him in
a hold that is in fact unbreakable.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
Oh very good. But just the way that he's even
like lifting him off the ground, but he just he
won't be moving like Yeah, it's I wonder how many
times they had to do this. And the way that
whenever he bumps into the wall, he's wall denting the
dry wall.

Speaker 2 (01:34:43):
I think that's Bruce Willis being flung around like I.

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
Do not I was even thinking because it feels like
it must be a little bit of a lighter person
for that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:34:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:34:55):
But yeah, but the music. I can hear the music
right now because I've heard this score so much and
it's so just after what we've been through for the
past ten minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:35:02):
Yeah, it's so cathartic. Well, and I just I mean,
I gotta be honest, probably one of my favorite superhero
themes of all time. Yeah, you know, it's such a
simple motif, but there's so many different orchestrations of it. Yeah,
this track the Orange Man. I must have listened to this,

(01:35:23):
I don't even know how many times.

Speaker 1 (01:35:24):
Yep, yeah, same, that's how we found each other.

Speaker 2 (01:35:31):
I know, right this this soundtrack was like my writing music.
I remember that I used to put it on because
this again, this is when I was at Columbia, and
I was like writing, you know, i'd have a script
or something end to turn in or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
Yep, I would. I'd put it in things that I made.
And oh yeah, yeah, I mean I have to call
out the mom just I can feel myself getting emotional
seeing the mom fall over. Yeah, and I hate it,
but I also feel like it fits.

Speaker 2 (01:36:05):
It's truthful.

Speaker 1 (01:36:06):
It's truthful.

Speaker 2 (01:36:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
And then of course this is so sweet. I was
reading about this. I was curious about this. So he
he has this moment with his wife and she was like,
when did you know that we might not work out?
And he tells a story about well, I had a
nightmare and I didn't wake you to tell you. And
so then after this horrifying thing, you know, he takes

(01:36:32):
her out of the room the separate room, brings her
up to his room, says he, honey, I had a nightmare.
Ah lovely. And I was wondering because him carrying her,
there's a little bit of a floating quality to it.
And I do wonder if you know, she was on
some sort of cable or something.

Speaker 2 (01:36:48):
I was thinking, but it's like like a rig of
some kind.

Speaker 1 (01:36:51):
It wasn't It was just no no, no, I'm guessing
the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:36:54):
Yeah, but I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:55):
It's really lovely and it's a it's a very stylized shot,
but it's a very effective one.

Speaker 2 (01:37:05):
See. I think what she should have said is like,
well now I'm awake now, so thanks for ruining my
sleep as well. That would have been more truthful.

Speaker 1 (01:37:19):
That's really funny. Yeah, I had some note here. I
can't find it, but I was reading that. Yeah, it
took like eleven hours to shoot that. It was so complicated.

Speaker 2 (01:37:28):
Good lord, just ticking her up the stairs.

Speaker 1 (01:37:30):
Yeah, goodness, Yeah, it is not crazy. Oh yeah, this
is him from that Oral History says that was incredibly
difficult shot, which I remember it took us forever to accomplish.

Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
I think it was eleven hours. Is Shyamalan saying that, Yeah,
good lord crazy. I wonder if Willis was regretting agreeing
to be in this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
Of course, this is a sweet moment, you know, Well,
it's nice that he gets to see Oh I didn't
even notice that they're touching. That's been a wife there,
which they wouldn't at the beginning. But then this is
a nice moment between him and his son. The son
finally gets the payoff, you know, of believing his dad
is superhuman?

Speaker 2 (01:38:16):
See would be what would be funny is like as
they make eye contact and Bruce Willis is kind of
like like gives him the smile and then and then
Joseph like holds up the gun like eh, and He's
just like no, and he has to put the gun
down again.

Speaker 1 (01:38:31):
And by the way, why why are you carrying that?
Do you have that in your pajama pants?

Speaker 2 (01:38:41):
Man?

Speaker 1 (01:38:41):
By the way, something of I remember this from originally
seeing this him the boy untwisting the orange juice and
see this, I was like, I think this is the
fastest anyone moves in this entire movie. I remember it
alway kind of stood out to because everything is so
deliberately paced, and that felt like the first natural more
quickly paid.

Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
That's because you had a Tropicana rep who was on
set who was like, you do not make people think,
are you know? Bottle cap is hard to take off?

Speaker 1 (01:39:07):
That's right, that's right, but this is great. Yeah, him
sliding the paper over.

Speaker 2 (01:39:19):
So yeah, check out that ship right there.

Speaker 1 (01:39:21):
Yeah, yeah, I gets to see that. But it's so cute,
you know, the Sunles said, like you He's like but
then he's like, don't I thought this was kind of
funny where he's just like, don't tell your mother. I
was like, you know, it's like you guys are just
kind of repairing a sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:39:36):
I never already. This is a massive secret from her.
Now like their their their whole.

Speaker 1 (01:39:41):
Relationship began with like something he was keeping from her
with the car accident and the football career, and now
like they've repaired things and he's got a new secrets.
But I mean, yeah, we talk about Bruce Willis's performance,
and I mean the kid here, the kid, yeah, but

(01:40:04):
just that that look, the little pleading look, but also
sort of I don't know, a sweetness they're sharing right here.

Speaker 2 (01:40:10):
See. I liked him in this. I like Spencer treat Cary.
I think I said before in Gladiator I found him
slightly annoying because I got a little bit of Mike
Myers as Simon vibe from him. Are you the Spaniard?
Are you? Are you?

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
And he's like when he's like playing with that sword
as he's talking, Yeah, you know, that's so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:40:38):
I think it was right about here where I was like, oh, so,
Elijah's like definitely the villain then, because his mom like
not just what she says, but the way she says it.
There's really two villains.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish I could remember how
I felt, but last night I do remember thinking when
she said that, it feels pretty obvious.

Speaker 2 (01:41:01):
It's really on the nose. The other villain is in
a wheelchair.

Speaker 1 (01:41:06):
Perhaps I imagine his office is filled with the blueprints.

Speaker 2 (01:41:13):
He may have a purple trench code. Possibly, I'm just
giving her British accent.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
A cane made out of unusual material for a cane.

Speaker 2 (01:41:24):
By the way, so we've talked to the whole movie,
So David Dunn, is itself such a great reference to
comic book lore where you have a superhero alter egos
with alliterative names Peter such as Clark Kent, Peter Parker,
Read Richards, Matt Murdoch, Bruce Banner. We can keep going,

(01:41:47):
but kind of the subtle thing, you know. I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:53):
I think that's where I first learned that was watching
the behind the scenes stuff on the DVD. Hash I'm
funny talking about it. Yeah, that's really fun like first
clocked it, like I'll be darned.

Speaker 2 (01:42:02):
Yeah, that was something that like when they made the
Incredible Hawk television show in the seventies. Kenneth Johnson, who
created that, was the reason that he renamed instead of
Bruce Banner, it was David Banner mm because he didn't
like how comic book names were alliterative and he didn't
want the show to be very comic book.

Speaker 1 (01:42:17):
Ye oh, funny, although I.

Speaker 2 (01:42:20):
Think people would have clocked the comic book aspect by
the fact that he turns into a big green anker.

Speaker 1 (01:42:30):
That's kind of funny. But you know what, Kenneth Johnson
went on to direct Short Circuit too, So I trust
well that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:37):
Is Hey, you know what, he's a good man. I've
interviewed him.

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
I remember, I remember you sent me the clip of
him talking about short circuit.

Speaker 2 (01:42:45):
Yeh yeh, I said, my friend Brian loves short circuit too.
Can you tell a short circuit two story? And he
more than happily obliged dreams. Do you love this? Here?
He's like, I think this is where we shake hands,
like this is like now he knows like you're to
touch that. Now I have to tell you my role
in this.

Speaker 1 (01:43:03):
You know, yep, it's great, you know, and so this
and this is horrifying the security cam pov here. Yeah,
and see I can see people still going along with this.
I'm talking about general audiences and going.

Speaker 2 (01:43:25):
Well, yeah, the the jitteriness as he walks out of
the frame.

Speaker 1 (01:43:29):
And yeah, yeah, the speed ramping or whatever you were saying. No,
but then it just suddenly does this freeze frame and
puts text on the screen like yeah, and then David
called the Cops and Lies Now and Insane Asylum directed
by him night Shyam Lane and I really do feel
like you were walking such a delicate walk, and that
might have been the thing that that threw off so

(01:43:51):
many people, because otherwise I could still see people tracking
with this, and you know, if they had been on
the ride so far.

Speaker 2 (01:43:58):
So I watched this with my daughter last night and
it gets to that part at the end and it
has that text, and she goes, so, so this is
all real and and I, oh, right, Like she thought
it was like a documentary.

Speaker 1 (01:44:16):
You know, that's funny because usually that, yeah, that happens
at the end of like biopics exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
So I said, no, it's just made up, and she goes,
that's weird. I was like, Yeah, a lot of people
felt that I do.

Speaker 1 (01:44:27):
Always actually kind of find it weird when they do
that in fictional fictional.

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
Yeah, they did there with three Kings if you remember,
actually they'll but that worked for me. So I don't know,
but that because the whole tone is in that vein.

Speaker 1 (01:44:39):
That's true. That's true. But apparently early previews of the
movie and some in France and certain other places, they
didn't have the text.

Speaker 2 (01:44:50):
It would have been better without it, I think, so,
for sure it would have been better without it.

Speaker 1 (01:44:54):
But I can understand.

Speaker 2 (01:44:58):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:44:59):
I would kind of like to see the original ending.
What I read was basically what happens, and you can
look this up online. Actually I have it right here.

Speaker 2 (01:45:07):
This is real quick. Yeah, you know, there's something about
the way Bruce willis, the way he goes Jesus Christ,
the way he says that. It's like the subtle thing,
but it's it's there's something so honest about his delivery
of that. Yeah, that is right here, just the way
it's like it's like he's struggling to get the words
out right, and it's so perfectly encompasses the scope of

(01:45:31):
the betrayal. He must be feeling, right, you know, it's
a little thing. But I've always that's always just the
way he the way he plays this moment is fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:45:42):
Because it's not big exactly. Yeah, I'm not a mistake
you say that. I remember you saying this, like I
associate this line with you for some reason.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
I don't know why. It was the kids. Well, I've
said before with reference to don Old Trump at the
twenty eleven White House Correspondence dinner where Obama was like
dunking on him. You remember that, right, And I was like,
that was his mister Glass moment, right right, right right,

(01:46:12):
He's like they called me mister Glass. But like and
and here we are, fourteen years later, still dealing with
that shit.

Speaker 1 (01:46:22):
But this, this is what I'm talking about, Like, you
have that moment, like you're saying, like he's Bruce Willison
is doing like a real, understated, realistic reaction to this,
and him walking away and then suddenly freeze frame. David
Done called the cops later, and you're like, whoa, whoa.
It's like it's a jarring.

Speaker 2 (01:46:37):
Scene to me. Well, here, okay, I first of all
worth mentioning that last shot of Elijah smiling. That's like
the first time in the whole movie. He smiles, Yeah,
because now he understands Now he knows his purpose, right, Yeah,
I think the movie would have worked better without the
text Elijah Price is now in a insane asylum or
whatever it says. But I think the polarizing reaction would

(01:46:59):
have been no matter what I think.

Speaker 1 (01:47:02):
So no one I think, because there's no button at
the end or anything. And I just want to read
this real quickly, just because I have it. I thought
this was interesting. So this is from a draft. I'm
not saying this is the shooting draft. I don't know
for sure, but basically, after Elijah said his thing, it says,
David looks like he stopped breathing. As he backs up
in the store, Customers step between him and Elijah. Elijah

(01:47:24):
becomes obscured and then blocked from view an exterior street.
David emerges from the store slowly. He braces himself against
a parked car, and then keeps on walking in a
nightmarish days. We pull back as David done blends in
with dozens and dozens of ordinary people walking on ordinary
street in an ordinary city. Fade to black, like there's

(01:47:46):
just a little bit more time to let the thing
I'm not saying that that would have made everybody like
love it, but it just happens really abruptly.

Speaker 2 (01:47:56):
I feel, Okay, well, a couple points. I think fundamentally,
the problem with the ending, no matter whether the one
you just read or the one in the movie, is
it doesn't really give us a moment of catharsis.

Speaker 1 (01:48:10):
That's what I'm saying, Yes, exactly, no matter what.

Speaker 2 (01:48:13):
And the other problem and and really the problem is
a bit because because the Catharis is Elijah's, right, He's
the one who has this release of emotion, and fundamentally
we're not gonna right. The other problem, and this is
not an unbreakable problem, it's a sixth sense problem, is
that the sixth sense just happened to have the greatest
twist of all time. And so people went into this

(01:48:36):
one being like, oh, give me more of that. Yeah,
And and that's that's the essential, you know what I mean,
Like like he he he hit a home run and
so the next time, you know, he only got on base. Yeah,
That's that's how people perceived it, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:59):
Yeah, And it's too bad because again I can live
with it because I love this movie as a whole, Right,
but I can totally see where that that is, this
little hiccup at the end unfortunately after such like a
really really strong.

Speaker 2 (01:49:12):
And I don't know what he could have done to
address that. I just think I think that the nature
of the story was such that, like, you know, unless
you yeah, I don't know, you know, I think the
way it's structured, there's nothing. I was like, maybe if
you find a way to end it on the emotional
high point of David reconciling with his wife or whatever,

(01:49:34):
but you still got to do the Elijah reveal, and
you can't do that before totally well.

Speaker 1 (01:49:39):
You know what's interesting too is Nina Jacobson, who's the
president of production at Disney at the time. She was saying,
this is again from the Oral History, which I highly
recommend if you're a fan of this movie. It's Entertainment Weekly.
She said, this is a quote I remember conversations about
the ending. The hero walking away from the villain always
troubled me, and so I wonder if that's another thing
with the text where it's like, well, David did something

(01:50:02):
about it, because if he did, just you know, he's
basically talking to this terrorist and then just kind of
whoa man, I can't believe it and it just walks away.

Speaker 2 (01:50:10):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:50:10):
That wouldn't feel quite right either.

Speaker 2 (01:50:12):
Well, so this, this is the thing going back to
what I was saying before, Like, in real life it
would be you that's what happened. What would happen. You'd
go to the cops be like, hey, that guy's a
terrorist and then they would arrest him. That's like what
would happen in real life. M Right. So based on
the grounded ethos of the film, it's consistent with that.
The problem is we reflexively audiences are conditioned to want

(01:50:33):
that moment where the hero defeats the villain. Right, So
this is what this gets to what I've said to
you before. You always have that scene in movies where
the hero is about to beat the bad guy and
then it's like, no, you're not worth it, and then
the bad guy does something that forces the hero to
kill them. Yeah, so that you get to have your

(01:50:53):
cake and eat it too, man.

Speaker 1 (01:50:55):
So what how what is I don't know, a little
button or catharsis we get because I again I like,
I don't mind the down ending.

Speaker 2 (01:51:03):
No, I kind of like it.

Speaker 1 (01:51:04):
Actually, yeah, it's just the yeah, that little.

Speaker 2 (01:51:09):
I mean, it is amusing to me that your friend
Opening Night had such a visceral reaction.

Speaker 1 (01:51:15):
Oh yeah, it was a big react. Well it said, yeah,
she was literally telling people not to go. I'll never
forget that. That was so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:51:24):
But like, what was the size of your group?

Speaker 1 (01:51:29):
Something like four people maybe?

Speaker 2 (01:51:30):
Okay? So was it like fifty to fifty? Man?

Speaker 1 (01:51:34):
I wish I could remember, because she's the thing I
remember most, but I would be willing to about. We
were mostly like in favor. I loved it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:45):
Yeah, see, I remember seeing it Opening Night and I
liked it. I definitely liked it, but I didn't love it.
And then the more I got to revisit it, the
more I grew to appreciate all the things that happened
in it. You know, I remember because this was Fall
of two thousand, right, so fall of O one? Was

(01:52:09):
it all one? Yeah? It must have been. I had
a suspense thriller class at Colombia and the professor showed it,
and so I got to re experience it. I was like, oh, man,
you know this really works. And then I remember shortly
after that, I went and bought the DVD and I
watched it a bunch of times, and so it was
definitely it was like again, I I came out of

(01:52:31):
theater having liked it a lot, but I definitely remember
being like, well, it's not as good as the sixth sense,
you know, sure, And it took me a little bit
to be like, oh, it's doing something totally different, you know. Yeah, yeah, man,
I mean what can imagine trying to follow up the
sixth cents? That's that's what I'm saying, right, I mean,
it's it's that's a tough that's a tough situation to
be in, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:52:50):
Yeah, I mean but you you said it perfectly already.
But that movie has the perfect when the reveal happens,
it has the most perfect swell of all time, you know,
and and helping us understand what happened, and then he
also gets a goodbye, you know. Yeah, it's like.

Speaker 2 (01:53:07):
It's it's it contains the Catharsis within it along with
the shock of I mean, everything works, you know, and
you know, I I I think that's the mistake he made.
It was trying to become twist ending guy, right, you know,
but I again, I don't know how you do Unbreakable
without the twist you have to have the twist. It

(01:53:28):
is kind of essential. I like it.

Speaker 1 (01:53:30):
I like the twist. I like the so that that's
the villain was was here's the villain all along and
he was rooting this person out and that sucks. That's
kind yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:53:39):
Yeah, but hey, let us know your thoughts on Unbreakable
or let us know your thoughts on our thoughts on Unbreakable.
You can email us at Movie Film Podcast dot gmail
dot com. You can also hit like on our Facebook
page Facebook dot com slash movie Film Podcast and message
us there. As always, please go to Apple Podcasts and
leave a review. Also on Spotify, and hey, if you're
listening to this on YouTube, hit subscribe, hit like, and

(01:54:02):
by all means leave some comments there. We also have
a Patreon Brian, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:54:06):
If you head over to patreon dot com slash moviefilm
podcast and hit subscribe for only five dollars a month,
you'll find every commentary we've ever done in every episode
moving forward, absolutely ad free. Our free feed will always
be available, but this is our way of providing what
we believe is the most satisfying way to enjoy the show.
No random interruptions or ads cutting into the conversation. Plus,

(01:54:27):
your subscription goes a long way and helping to support
us and helping to sustain producing the show. So if
you're interested in able, please head over to patreon dot
com slash moviefilm podcast and subscribe. We'd be very grateful.

Speaker 2 (01:54:41):
There we go, and if you're looking for me online,
you can find me on social media at Zachi's corner.
That's the Akis Corner. You can also find my reviews
and writing at the San Francisco Chronicle and also at
IGN and The Rap What About You, Brian, You can.

Speaker 1 (01:54:54):
Find episodes I've written of Puppy Dog Pals and Young
Jedi Adventures streaming on Disney.

Speaker 2 (01:54:58):
Plus and with that on behalf of my partner Brian Holm.
My name is Zachi asand this has been our movie
film commentary track four Unbreakable. We'll catch you next time.
Thanks folks,

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