August 20, 2025 • 9 mins
Nicol Horrell says the issue of gravel extraction is still very much forefront of mind for Environment Southland.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Nicol Horror as chairman of Environments South and and joins
us on the muster once again. Nicol, Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Good afternoon, Andy. Good to see the weather improving. Bet
after what we'll better than the last day I do.
It's all gone North, Nicol.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I had Jason Herrick, who's president of South con Federated
Farmers on the program recently. He wasn't happy with the
way the whole gravel extraction issue was being pervaded as such. Firstly,
a couple of things to clear up regarding gravel extraction,
and I've known this firsthand in the past. A lot
of frustration, especially on the upper reaches of the Mattawa
(00:48):
River for example, about why you can and can't do
and why just can't Why can't we go in there
and just move gravel?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And I guess you know, in the old days before
the are it may a lot of it did happen,
but we are bound by regulations and we can we
can only do with what's within the law. I think
we'll get some good changes out of the rom changes.
And I had quite a productive conversation in Wellington a
couple of weeks ago with Denny Simmons and there may
(01:15):
there may well be an initiative we can put forward
where the government ministers now have the power to actually
strike out regulations or which which would actually go up,
but it would mean a water and land plan was
based on the rim.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
As it was.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So it's if we could get more permitted activities, particularly
for beaches coimming up. This is this is I think
a big one that caused a lot of frustration out there,
and any permitted activity, there's there's always a range of
things you can do to be permitted and outside that
you go to a consent process. And so that's what
(01:51):
we've sort of got at the moment. You know, we've
had conversations with all the owners of structures I bridges
that you know basically look at them. They can remove
gravel from under those structures. Our guys will work with them.
And what's tended to happen in the past is people
were restricted to doing so many medias either side. What
(02:11):
you actually did was big a hole under a bridge.
Next time the three ship fielded back in And some
people are saying, you know, we tell it how far, Well,
it's got to be on a case by case basis,
because what you really want is a gradient that goes
from above the bridge down down to where the original
settings where when they got the bridge, and down below it.
(02:32):
If you do that, it'll stay clear for a long time,
whereas we know if you just think a hole, it's
going to fill up.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
As far as changes of the arimo that you're talking
about then nic or how far are they going to go,
it's there.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
This legislation was passed in the House last week. I'm
not sure if it's had royalistent yet, but it does
give Minister Simmons and possibly Minister the Bishop the ability
to either allow us to do a discreet plan change.
The difficulty of that is still it's timely. All the
(03:08):
normal parties are going to come and challenge you an
environment court. I'm particularly interested in the ability to actually
strike out regulations. So you know, we've been issues with
frustrations around consenting for wetlands. We've got some tidying up
that needs to be done with farm plans, but the
beach skimming is the other one that is you know,
(03:28):
and it's not just here, it's all around the countryside
that we've seen the floods and other parts of the area,
and everybody's saying, look, if we've been able to take
gravel out, that would have helped mitigate to a certain
extent some of those things. Now it's gravel extraction is
not to be an end all, but there is a
lot of frustration out there that let's make it. If
we can make it simpler for people to take gravel
(03:49):
out where we need it taken out rather than being
holes in the paddocks, that would be a real win.
And that's been on my bucket list before I leave,
before I leave the building. It won't probably happen, but
before then, but I'm pretty keen to take it to
council next month and see if we as an appetite
to be restless.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Jason here, of course, they claiming that environments south and
engagement at those material liaison catchment meetings has been minimal.
What do you say to that.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, we have had a lot of meetings with the
catchment groups over the last couple of years, and you know,
Hugh di Gardein was one of the advocates for widening
the base for funding river work and he should be
a happy man actually, because you know, we litten to
a logical argument. Everybody now pays, but I think from
(04:35):
that meeting it was sort of a confusion that because
it was capital rates that they should we were raising more money. Well,
actually what it did was changed away and the spread
and the spread. We didn't actually raise the amount. If
they want more money spent on the rivers, they can
come along to the meetings that before the next annual
(04:55):
planners and if it was an appetite to spend more,
then obviously that they the new council listened to that.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Recently, you've had a work supervisor for ES he's handed
in his resignation citing budget limitations and consenting issues means
his job, he just can't do it anymore. Do you
think the red tape problem is going to be solved
anytime soon? Because it seems as though you talk about
these RIMA reforms, there seems to be a lot more
on the table to have to decipher.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And look, you know, if you have to get a consent,
you have to get a consent. It's the same with debatement. Notice,
you can't have one rule for everybody else and a
different one for our own. As long as the paperwork's done,
you can get on with it. But I know this
has been frustration that people have been held up, But
you have to have somebody within the group that is
going through the process. And we're trying to pass track
(05:46):
a lot of these consents now too, so it's a
simple job that we should be able to get it
out the door quite quickly and quite with not too
much expense. So there are changes within the building, but
until the RMA changes, we can't break the law. And
that's that's all. Councils are the same. You have taken
to the cleaners if you don't obey the rules of
(06:08):
the day. And you know that. We know that all
the changes that we're more permitted activities going forward, and
I think we will welcome that. But until that does
actually happen, we've got to do things as efficiently and
as timely as possible. And because some of it perhaps
haven't been done, that's the paperwork in the last couple
of years. There's a priority listen there. At the moment,
(06:30):
it's actually around some of the canal of money. We've
got to have everything lined up to actually qualify for
they're working through that. The boat that notice put me
out a job probably won't be done until the spring now,
but once the consents been applied for and granted the
way they go. It's as simple that as that.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Really, if there is zari mayor re form, can we
expect environments south and reprioritize rock and willow work and
put their money towards gravel extraction on pressure points.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
There's a whole range of two and our guys will
assess what needs to be done in a certain situation.
In some places getting rid of the gravel will work fine,
and other places, especially if we've a critical infrastructure on
the other side of it, the rocket, there will be
an option. And of course we've done a lot of
willow side in the banks too. We've needed to too,
(07:22):
but we just need to be able to have all
those tools so you can actually take the right option.
And you know, the river's always moving, but if you
can do small jobs up and it'll actually say the
big job.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Just finally, Nickele Regarding the pricing around consent, the consenting
process in general, it seems rather expensive, Jason Herett claiming
it can go from anywhere. For gravel consents, for example,
if you can get them from two and a half
thousand dollars over fifty thousand dollars plus, which seems a
lot of money for extracting something.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And like our costs will only be a fraction of that.
And you know we've had ay you the like the
fishing games and some of there are other agencies that
people said, I've got to get a consultant. We're getting
a report on it, and that's where a lot of
that money is has been has come in. If we
if we can simplify that process, I mean, if it's
a complex job, you know, there'll we have a process
(08:17):
to go through. But a lot of these gravel contractors
have been working in those areas for years and if
we're throwing new surely it can be done quite simple,
quickly and without PreO much expense. And I don't think
it's getting a consent that worries these people. It's actually
the time and the cost. So that those are the
ites we do need to be sorted and we've goold
(08:38):
have seen them are working pretty hard on that at
the moment, including you know, for wetlands, you're trying trying
to get a simple one out the door within a
week four thousand dollars and that's that's real progress.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Get on your neck alloways. Appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
No, you have a good day.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Andy Nickel, Horral, Chairman of Environments Southland. Matt Taylor's that
next in the beef and lame slot. This is the
master
Nicol Horror as chairman of Environments South and and joins
us on the muster once again. Nicol, Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Good afternoon, Andy. Good to see the weather improving. Bet
after what we'll better than the last day I do.
It's all gone North, Nicol.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I had Jason Herrick, who's president of South con Federated
Farmers on the program recently. He wasn't happy with the
way the whole gravel extraction issue was being pervaded as such. Firstly,
a couple of things to clear up regarding gravel extraction,
and I've known this firsthand in the past. A lot
of frustration, especially on the upper reaches of the Mattawa
(00:48):
River for example, about why you can and can't do
and why just can't Why can't we go in there
and just move gravel?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And I guess you know, in the old days before
the are it may a lot of it did happen,
but we are bound by regulations and we can we
can only do with what's within the law. I think
we'll get some good changes out of the rom changes.
And I had quite a productive conversation in Wellington a
couple of weeks ago with Denny Simmons and there may
(01:15):
there may well be an initiative we can put forward
where the government ministers now have the power to actually
strike out regulations or which which would actually go up,
but it would mean a water and land plan was
based on the rim.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
As it was.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So it's if we could get more permitted activities, particularly
for beaches coimming up. This is this is I think
a big one that caused a lot of frustration out there,
and any permitted activity, there's there's always a range of
things you can do to be permitted and outside that
you go to a consent process. And so that's what
(01:51):
we've sort of got at the moment. You know, we've
had conversations with all the owners of structures I bridges
that you know basically look at them. They can remove
gravel from under those structures. Our guys will work with them.
And what's tended to happen in the past is people
were restricted to doing so many medias either side. What
(02:11):
you actually did was big a hole under a bridge.
Next time the three ship fielded back in And some
people are saying, you know, we tell it how far, Well,
it's got to be on a case by case basis,
because what you really want is a gradient that goes
from above the bridge down down to where the original
settings where when they got the bridge, and down below it.
(02:32):
If you do that, it'll stay clear for a long time,
whereas we know if you just think a hole, it's
going to fill up.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
As far as changes of the arimo that you're talking
about then nic or how far are they going to go,
it's there.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
This legislation was passed in the House last week. I'm
not sure if it's had royalistent yet, but it does
give Minister Simmons and possibly Minister the Bishop the ability
to either allow us to do a discreet plan change.
The difficulty of that is still it's timely. All the
(03:08):
normal parties are going to come and challenge you an
environment court. I'm particularly interested in the ability to actually
strike out regulations. So you know, we've been issues with
frustrations around consenting for wetlands. We've got some tidying up
that needs to be done with farm plans, but the
beach skimming is the other one that is you know,
(03:28):
and it's not just here, it's all around the countryside
that we've seen the floods and other parts of the area,
and everybody's saying, look, if we've been able to take
gravel out, that would have helped mitigate to a certain
extent some of those things. Now it's gravel extraction is
not to be an end all, but there is a
lot of frustration out there that let's make it. If
we can make it simpler for people to take gravel
(03:49):
out where we need it taken out rather than being
holes in the paddocks, that would be a real win.
And that's been on my bucket list before I leave,
before I leave the building. It won't probably happen, but
before then, but I'm pretty keen to take it to
council next month and see if we as an appetite
to be restless.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Jason here, of course, they claiming that environments south and
engagement at those material liaison catchment meetings has been minimal.
What do you say to that.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, we have had a lot of meetings with the
catchment groups over the last couple of years, and you know,
Hugh di Gardein was one of the advocates for widening
the base for funding river work and he should be
a happy man actually, because you know, we litten to
a logical argument. Everybody now pays, but I think from
(04:35):
that meeting it was sort of a confusion that because
it was capital rates that they should we were raising more money. Well,
actually what it did was changed away and the spread
and the spread. We didn't actually raise the amount. If
they want more money spent on the rivers, they can
come along to the meetings that before the next annual
(04:55):
planners and if it was an appetite to spend more,
then obviously that they the new council listened to that.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Recently, you've had a work supervisor for ES he's handed
in his resignation citing budget limitations and consenting issues means
his job, he just can't do it anymore. Do you
think the red tape problem is going to be solved
anytime soon? Because it seems as though you talk about
these RIMA reforms, there seems to be a lot more
on the table to have to decipher.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And look, you know, if you have to get a consent,
you have to get a consent. It's the same with debatement. Notice,
you can't have one rule for everybody else and a
different one for our own. As long as the paperwork's done,
you can get on with it. But I know this
has been frustration that people have been held up, But
you have to have somebody within the group that is
going through the process. And we're trying to pass track
(05:46):
a lot of these consents now too, so it's a
simple job that we should be able to get it
out the door quite quickly and quite with not too
much expense. So there are changes within the building, but
until the RMA changes, we can't break the law. And
that's that's all. Councils are the same. You have taken
to the cleaners if you don't obey the rules of
(06:08):
the day. And you know that. We know that all
the changes that we're more permitted activities going forward, and
I think we will welcome that. But until that does
actually happen, we've got to do things as efficiently and
as timely as possible. And because some of it perhaps
haven't been done, that's the paperwork in the last couple
of years. There's a priority listen there. At the moment,
(06:30):
it's actually around some of the canal of money. We've
got to have everything lined up to actually qualify for
they're working through that. The boat that notice put me
out a job probably won't be done until the spring now,
but once the consents been applied for and granted the
way they go. It's as simple that as that.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Really, if there is zari mayor re form, can we
expect environments south and reprioritize rock and willow work and
put their money towards gravel extraction on pressure points.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
There's a whole range of two and our guys will
assess what needs to be done in a certain situation.
In some places getting rid of the gravel will work fine,
and other places, especially if we've a critical infrastructure on
the other side of it, the rocket, there will be
an option. And of course we've done a lot of
willow side in the banks too. We've needed to too,
(07:22):
but we just need to be able to have all
those tools so you can actually take the right option.
And you know, the river's always moving, but if you
can do small jobs up and it'll actually say the
big job.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Just finally, Nickele Regarding the pricing around consent, the consenting
process in general, it seems rather expensive, Jason Herett claiming
it can go from anywhere. For gravel consents, for example,
if you can get them from two and a half
thousand dollars over fifty thousand dollars plus, which seems a
lot of money for extracting something.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And like our costs will only be a fraction of that.
And you know we've had ay you the like the
fishing games and some of there are other agencies that
people said, I've got to get a consultant. We're getting
a report on it, and that's where a lot of
that money is has been has come in. If we
if we can simplify that process, I mean, if it's
a complex job, you know, there'll we have a process
(08:17):
to go through. But a lot of these gravel contractors
have been working in those areas for years and if
we're throwing new surely it can be done quite simple,
quickly and without PreO much expense. And I don't think
it's getting a consent that worries these people. It's actually
the time and the cost. So that those are the
ites we do need to be sorted and we've goold
(08:38):
have seen them are working pretty hard on that at
the moment, including you know, for wetlands, you're trying trying
to get a simple one out the door within a
week four thousand dollars and that's that's real progress.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Get on your neck alloways. Appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
No, you have a good day.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Andy Nickel, Horral, Chairman of Environments Southland. Matt Taylor's that
next in the beef and lame slot. This is the
master
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