March 21, 2025 • 41 mins
Mort has Claire De Lune join the pod to discuss the Los Angeles Lakers, as to find out if they can genuinely compete for a title this season.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, my name is Morten Jensen, and you're listening to
the NBA Podcast. Hi, and welcome to the NBA Podcast.
My name is Morten Jensen, and today we'll be discussing
the Los Angeles Lakers. How have their first sixty six
games gone. Obviously, there's a little bit of a trade
(00:29):
that went down during the midseason that probably warrants some
level of attention as well to this whole thing. And
then we're going to try to look ahead to what
is going to go on after this year, because as
we know, Lebron is forty. I think that's a storyline
that's been covered a little bit in the media as well,
So that is what we're going to be talking about.
(00:50):
And to help me through that, I've brought in Claire Duloone,
who is writing about the NBA over that at The Guardian,
is doing a great job of that and is asking
Lebron some pretty kick ass questions in post game scrums. Claire,
how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you so much? That's very kind. I'm doing great.
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So the Lakers, obviously, it's been a tale of two seasons,
and I'm not just you know, splitting it between the
Luca Arrival like, because it did seem like even before
the trade, they were starting to find their legs a
little bit the early going in the season, up and
down very five hundred ish ball. What changed all of
a sudden, It seems like JJ Reddick, That's just my interpretation,
(01:29):
like suddenly snapped his fingers and figured it out a
way to have the team play more efficient defense. They
often seem more streamlined. But like, what's your read on it?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I mean, I would say, I wouldn't say it's necessarily
like one thing that you can point to that was
the catalyst. I think it makes a little bit of
sense that JJ Reddick, especially coming in as a new
coach to a team that was mostly the same and
all knew each other and was used to a certain system,
it would take a little bit of a learning curve
for him to become what I think is the excellent
(02:02):
coach that he is at this point. If I had
to pick one catalyst, I would say the trade for
Dorianfinny Smith when they moved D'Angelo Russell to the nets
and got Dorian phony Smith, Like he is very underrated
in my opinion, but that guy is a needle mover.
He's a culture changer. He is a dog on the
defensive end. He's just like a super down to earth
(02:23):
likes salt of the earth guy from the South who
just like is gritty and plays a really tough, very
aggressive brand of defense, which has now sort of become
their team identity. I think. So getting him in that
trade and then around the same time, getting Jared Vanderbilt back,
who's like a similar type of player, I think, really
shifted the identity of this team even pre Luca trade.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
It's interesting because this was a team where going into
this season I wasn't high on him because I thought
they had way too many one way players. Yeah, they
had a lot of offense only guys, a lot of
defense only guys Janceulo. While I appreciate the season he
had last year, I was sort of skeptical whether or
not he duplicate it, and unfortunately it couldn't. I think
(03:11):
your point about Dorian Phinney Smith is extremely interesting because
it did seem like when he came in, you know,
a lot of people peg him as a defensive oriented guy,
and to many extents, he is, but he's also capable
of hitting the three. He's also capable of cutting in
and doing stuff off the ball and just doing things offensively.
(03:32):
I know some Lakers fans will argue, oh, it's only
averaging a little under seven points per game, but that
almost fails to encapsulate his right. So I think for
them to actually get a guy in who is more
of a two way guy, who can compete on both
sides of the floor, it alleviated some concern from other players,
(03:52):
like they were able to lean into their skill sets
a little bit more. I thought it was such a
wonderful change of pace. It was a great trait for them,
and it kind of allowed a guy, in my opinion,
like Austin Reefs also to flourish because he was asked
to do a lot defensively, which I don't necessarily think
was his bread and butter. So for Dorian to come
(04:12):
in and take over those assignments and sort of like
let Austin become more of a figurehead offensively was interesting
for them. Could you attach some words to Austin Reefs
this year? He's been just phenomenal, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I mean, in my opinion, and I know it's I
feel like when you watch a team day in day out,
like I do you're gonna see things and notice things
that obviously like national player, like national media who's not
LA based, wouldn't see. I feel like he should absolutely
be in the conversation for most Improved this year. I
don't know if he will be. I think he deserves
(04:46):
to be, especially when you look at someone like Kate Cunningham.
I mean, I think Kate is very deserving. I think
he's incredible. I think he was a deserving All Star.
He'll be deserving All NBA when he inevitably gets that
as well. But he was a number one overall pick,
and he had sky high expectations, And to me, I
have a hard time sometimes with the most improved conversation
(05:07):
when it's a number one overall pick, because it's like,
if you're picked first overall in the entire draft, you're
expected to be exemplary, and so if you finally get
to that point where you are, I don't know to
me if that's like as notable as someone like Austin Reeves,
who went undrafted, played his way up to being a
(05:27):
meaningful role player, then to being a meaningful starter, losing
his starting spot temporarily last year, getting it back, and
then this year, I think having the most impressive productive
season of his career. I think he's being asked to
do a lot for this team, and on the nights
when there is no Lebron or when there was no
(05:47):
Ad when he was on the roster, when there's no Luca,
he absolutely steps up in whatever role is needed. If
they need sixteen assists, he gets that. If they need
forty points, he does that. And to me, I mean
as a number three option, he's right up there with
the best number three options in the league. And for
an undrafted player to be doing that, it's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
I think, oh, Claire, you are already a top five
guest by going the whole on the on the rant
of like former number one picks or top picks getting
MP consideration. This is something I've been talking about for
the better part of five years. I am so upset
at how the MIP Award has sort of shifted into
stars like John Morant winning it when he came in
(06:34):
as a second overall pick, for example. It just doesn't
sit right with me. So thank you for being another
voice in that continuous fight, because I honestly think you
should split it up into two awards. You can have
like something called the next Star thing like that would
be fine for Kate because clearly he is. But for
guys like Austin Reeves, for guys like tied to Rome,
(06:56):
like guys and Daniels, those type of guys, yeah, you
feel like they deserve that because what kind of award
are they looking at? Like, realistically down the line, probably
not a lot so exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, spread the
wealth a little bit. I too have been very impressed
with Austin Reeves. I think for him to also finally
show people that he wasn't just a catch and shoot
(07:18):
guy that a lot of people just pegged him as. Yeah,
that was very annoying to me. When then this day
back to like his second year in the league, when
everyone was like, oh, yeah, like he's the next Kyle
Korver or something where no, he's a.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Guy, Yeah he's he I and this is a hill
that I will die on. Like if he was tasked
with being a number one option on a team like
maybe like a fledgling Eastern Conference team like say, I
don't know, like the Hawks or the Hornets or something
like that. If he was slotted into that LaMelo role
or that Trey young role. I think he'd be an
All Star like. I think he is fully capable of
(07:55):
being a number one option on like a decent to
good team, or a number two option on like a
really great team.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Like.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I think his ceiling is way higher than what he's
been kind of given the bandwidth an opportunity to show
on the Lakers because he's been sort of slotted at
highest in that number three role pretty consistently for his
whole career.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I wonder as well if the ascension of his offense
and the volume of which he's been able to, like
play a sustained level a ball was also what they
felt like was sort of an argument in enough itself
to also be open to moving off of Anthony Davis,
Like because one thing is, yeah, you lose the defense,
(08:38):
but you also lose the offense. That's something I think
a lot of people sort of forgot about when they
traded him, Like, yeah, you got Luka Dontichin obviously, but
you you also knew he was just coming off an injury.
I think the Lakers looked at that and going, you know,
who can carry us through a couple of weeks. Austin
Reeves alongside Lebron, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
For sure. I mean I think a lot of the
sort of trying to extrapolate the thinking behind the Luca
trade I think is a little bit foolhardy, because I
think basically it was not that well thought out, and
it was just this opportunity presented itself, and it was
a godfather offer. It's like, do you want Luka Dantic
And it's like, yes, Like figure it out later, figure
(09:17):
the roster out later, figure the rest of twenty twenty
five out later, Just say yes because he's a twenty
five year old generational superstar and like, we'll sort out
the details later. So I don't know how much they
thought out, like how are we going to handle the
rest of this season when we're actually playing really well
and we have this opportunity. I'm sure it was considered,
(09:38):
and I think the decision was ultimately made like maybe
this season will work out, maybe it won't, but this
is a future play, I think is kind of where
the Lakers were looking. I do think they see Austin
as a long term piece ideally, and I do think
they're they're gonna have to pay him a lot of
money if they want to see that through. But I
(09:59):
think all the all the talk I've heard about Oh,
Like I was asked on another show recently, like do
you think Luca makes Austin redundant? And I totally disagree
with that. I don't really think you can have too
much ball handling and basketball IQ on the floor at
one time. I mean, I think that's like such a luxury.
And I think as long as you have unselfish players
(10:21):
who no ball and are down to pass when when
need be, like, the more kind of ball handling and facilitating,
I think, generally speaking, the better. And like you said,
Austin has been sort of miscast in like a catch
and shoot role before, so it's not like he doesn't
have the tools to do that if need be. If
Luke's handling the ball, Austin can you know, like be
on the receiving end of one of those passes. But
(10:43):
he can also run the offense when Luke is resting,
when Lebron's resting, And I think you've seen that work
out really well.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, it almost feels like they're sort of setting up,
you know, after the fact, because I agree with you.
When someone calls and says, do you want Luca, Yeah,
you got to listen and obviously just kind of grab
that thing. Yeah, it does feel like they're sort of
priming Austin to take over, like like that secondary creation
role when Lebron is one day you know long right,
(11:13):
you know, and that's the thing you can't even plan
on that. But but before we get to that conversation,
I want to ask you about Dalton connect because obviously
he got traded to Charlotte, the trade got rescinded, he
came back, and he was a little like overwhelmed.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
And yeah, that's understandably right. I would say that's pretty crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I've actually been very impressed with how he's returned, Like
he dropped thirty two just a couple of days ago,
also had a nineteen pointer about a week ago of
something along those lines. It feels like he sort of,
I don't know how to phrase this. I guess he
almost took it a little bit personally and was like, Okay,
let me show you guys what I am actually capable of,
which I think is just the like Chef's kiss, perfect
(11:55):
response to trading him.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Absolutely, and I think for Dalton, he's just stayed so
even keeled and measured, like I don't think I think
he is a guy that doesn't get too high or
too low. I think that's just his personality. He's sort
of just locked in, which is great. I think he's
also you know, he had a very unconventional path to
sort of college superstardom. He started out going to a
(12:18):
junior college and kind of worked his way through the system,
kind of like a Jimmy Butler esque path. And so
he's already dealt with a lot of adversity, and I
think that's definitely you know, feeds into it and is
part of it as far as like he has had
some punches thrown his way already. Actually had a sweet
go a little viral yesterday where I because I noticed something.
(12:40):
It was during a timeout and obviously Lebron wasn't playing
last night or yesterday afternoon, but Dalton. I saw Dalton
approach Lebron and ask him about something. It looked like
he was asking about a specific play, and Lebron took
the whole time out and sort of like acted out
the play for him and sort of like put him
in a position and was explaining all the different people
on the floor and where they would be and where
(13:01):
he should be, and was sort of pantomiming it, and
Dalton was just like so intently listening and obviously soaking
it all up like a sponge. And I thought I
shared that because I thought that was such a cool
moment to show, like to be in that position, to
be traded, to be cast aside by your team as
a first round pick, and then to come back and
(13:22):
not only be able to sort of like put the
ego bruise aside and just get back to work, but
also be like, who knows how long I'm going to
be a Laker, but right now I have Lebron James
as my bet and I'm going to like learn as
much as I can, which seems to be his attitude.
And Luka Doncic, like those are two guys that you
can learn a lot from and to have the sort
of forethought and wisdom to ask those guys for advice
(13:44):
and ask them questions, like I just think is really
encouraging about his development.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, because I was like immediately after that trade got rescinded,
it was probably a knee jerk reaction for my part,
but I was like, yeah, he's probably gone this somewhere,
like not not there wasn't be a player would accept
that kind of situation, but I'm rethinking that I don't
think that might be the case. I think he's kind.
He's just like you said, he's attacked in the same way.
(14:10):
He's just kind of been even keel about it, not
made a fuss. I think it was fair that he
did take some time initially ran off after the trade
and just kind of say, all right, you know what,
let me just wrap my head around this. And maybe
taking that time was what result in what we're seeing
right now, which I think is extremely mature.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah. I mean, my thing with I don't think Dalton's
going to like demand a trade or anything, and I'm
sure the Lakers would love to, you know, take part
in his development. My thing is, like I think they will.
The trade that was rescinded was to try and get
a starting caliber big to pair with Luka Dancic. I
think that's still probably the long term plan, and I
would imagine they try and make something shake this summer.
(14:50):
In that case, Dalton is one of their last few
like remaining like semi valuable assets, So I personally wouldn't
be surprised if he does get moved this summer. But
it won't be like an indictment on Dalton the player.
More so just like out of necessity. They have a
need on the roster that they that they need to fill,
(15:10):
and his his salary and upside are potentially going to
help them fill that.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
So let's try to not look ahead till next season.
We'll do that in the second segment, but let's look
ahead for the rest of this season. Now, obviously Luca
Lebron they play a lot of the similar brand of basketball,
but that's not necessarily a bad thing. What type of
ceiling do you think has now been like the new
(15:39):
ceiling that's been installed here? What what are we looking at?
Are we looking at, you know, a Western Conference finals birth?
Are we looking at less than that? Like? Where do
you think Lakers fans would be satisfied with? An oubt?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I mean, the cliche answer is that Lakers by Lakers
fans aren't satisfied unless the championship. They have like a
certain level of expectation. I do think this team is
a championship ceiling. They're really good and like I've watched
a lot of iterations of this team up close. I
think the team that went to the Western Conference Finals
(16:15):
a couple of years ago. I don't think they had
a championship ceiling. I don't think they had a good
enough coach. I don't think some of their like like,
I don't think d lo is like a player that
can play a prominent role in a championship team, like
no offense meant. But I just his brand of basketball
is not a particularly winning brand. I don't think.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
So.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
It's not like I'm because I'm there all the time
and day and day out watching this team, I'm like, oh,
they're a championship ptender every year. But like what we're
watching right now, what we've watched with this team, even
pre Luca trade for the last like two to three months,
is really special. And they're playing way ahead of their
skis on defense, Like for the personnel, they have to
be the number one defense in the league for like
(16:56):
you know, a month running or whatever it was, is impressive.
They have two of the best basketball minds ever on
the floor together. They have, in my opinion, like one
of the top four players in the world on the
team now. And while the roster has some holes, like
I just I think I find every team in the
(17:17):
West to be pretty flawed, even OKAC, which is by
far the least flawed, I still think has some notable flaws.
So I think it's kind of anyone's game in the West.
And yeah, I think I think the Lakers have a
championship ceiling. I wouldn't call them a front runner, but
I think they definitely have a punter's chance.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And it's like, I think the one thing that would
speak against that is the lack of size going into
a postseason where you can adjust from from game to game.
But at the same time, the game is won very
often nowadays on the perimeter. So while I understand that
need and I understand that argument, hell, I actually agree
(17:57):
with the argument at to a certain extent. I also
believe that if you can get the threes going, if
you can get the perimeter game going, you you can
get Lebron downhill because that opens up when you establish
an outside game, that sort of changes dynamic it a
little bit. And Lebron is still you know, we might
talk about him. You know, he's forty years old and
(18:18):
all that, he's still six nine, two fifty and athletic
as hell.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, and my I guess my counter argument to the
size conversation would be they do have a lot of size,
they just don't have a lot of like six eleven
and above size, But they're huge on the perimeter and
like they have a lot of wing depth. So if
you even look at like like Lebron and Luca are
(18:43):
like six seven and six eight respectively, Ruiz six eight,
Dorian and Vando are both on the larger end for wings.
So I think they're pretty big as a team. They're
just not like they're lacking in the center position. But
they've had a lot of success playing small ball. They
had a lineup out there that had like an insane
(19:06):
plus minus. I was watching and even the eye test
like bore it out. That's what made me look it up.
I was like, this lineup is amazing. It was Ruy, Lebron, Luca, Austin,
and Dorian Finney Smith I believe. And that's their like
small ball lineup. They were incredible. So, I mean, I
(19:27):
think I know a lot of people talk about, oh,
who do they have that's gonna stop Jokic. Honestly, I
don't think you can design your playoff roster around who's
going to stop Jokic, because nobody's going to stop Jokic.
Like I think the Lakers a lot of teams kind
of copycated what they did in Denver when they got
that win, which is just like just swarm Jokic and
just make it harder for him to do what he
(19:48):
does and then dare the rest of his teammates to
make open shots without his help. And I mean that
has been one of the more effective strategies you've seen
against Denver. So I don't know. I get the size argument.
That's definitely the biggest demerit against them, but I think
as far as demerits go going into the postseason, like
(20:09):
center depth is not it's not a deal breaker for
me at all.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Right, I'm glad you touched on the defensive end here
as well, because there's something I've noticed with Lebron this
year under JJ Reddick which I thought was very interesting
and still is last year. You know, he's he's older,
so I think it's fair to say he's not playing
defense for twenty minutes per game. That's just not something
(20:36):
Lebron can say at that age. He finds his moments,
like he'll take these two minutes here, three minutes there,
and like he'll cobble together like this sort of like
psycho intense defensive effort for the you know, the stamina
that he's got left more or less what under Darvin
(20:56):
Ham those came at random moments. On JJ Reddick, it
feels like those stretches have been far more deliberate, far
more designed, like going up against the Nuggets for example,
when he was on Yokichi was on Murray, Like everything
felt far more designed than before. Like it seems like
Reddick knows, Yeah, one of my superstars is forty years old.
(21:19):
I can't ask him to play as much defense as
you know, like Dyson Daniels for example, Like I had
to pick my spots, and now it's become such an
interesting web of like, oh, I have to use him here,
I have him use him there, I have him to
use him in this scenario, and it's made Lebron that
much more effective defensively. What's been your read on the
(21:42):
Bron this season? Is he playing with more sense of urgency?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I would? I would just I disagree on the idea
that he only plays defense for stretches. I think that
that was true, like you said, like in the Darvin
Ham years. I think especially for the last few months
prior to his injury, Like you saw how their defense
has taken a bit of a dip with him out.
He took on the Anthony Davis role of being sort
of like the fulcrum of their defense, which is insane
(22:06):
to do at forty years old. And I think dating
back to I mean, he's been playing JJ said this
in a press conference, and it's true. He's been playing
like an all defense level for a couple months if
you actually watch them, watch the games, and like, watch
what he's doing out there. And I think it only
was intensified by bringing in Luca, who can take some
(22:28):
of the pressure off of him on the offensive end.
He doesn't have to be their offense and their defense.
But like for a forty year old to say, okay,
so today, you need me to be Anthony Davis say
less like, I'll be Anthony Davis now and I'll play
like that. You need me to be Luka Doncic like
when before they got Luca Cool, I'll be the Luca
I think is remarkable. But I would say, like, I don't.
(22:51):
I think that the taking possessions off thing was true
for a few years there and maybe and then the
beginning of this season for sure, when they were asking
so much of him on the offensive end. But to
your earlier point, with the emergence of Austin Reeves and
also now having Luca, he can sort of play off
(23:12):
ball a lot more than I think he ever has
in his career, And instead of just conserving that energy
and just like saving it for a rainy day, he's
expending all that energy on the defensive end. And I
think he's been playing pretty much NonStop, like insane defense
for a couple months now prior to the injury, and
it's been crazy to watch.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
The fact that you now have Luca as a guy
who can set you up if you're Lebron as well,
it allows him to lean into like the quote unquote
power forward size that he's always had yeah as well,
which I always found to be an area that was
perhaps a little bit underutilized, probably by the sign as well,
because that is, you know, physically draining to play that
(23:53):
ball as well interior. But now at that age, because
he's so refined in his movement understanding patient space to
the extent that he is, I love the idea of
Lebron's sort of not relinquishing ball handling duties, but at
least being more open to Oh yeah, I'm going to
be more of a play finisher now than I'm going
to be a table setter.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah. I mean I think Lebron wants I've said this
on other shows before, but like Lebron wants to win
another championship I think more than anything in the world,
and so he will. He knows what the kind of
impact that would have on his legacy, and you know,
I think he wants it bad. And so what you
see the difference I think between like Lebron of last
(24:35):
year versus Lebron right now. It's the difference between someone
who believes they have a chance and someone who knows
that they don't probably really have a real chance because
he's just too smart to like go for it if
this morning cast isn't there. I think that's something consistent
you've seen throughout his entire career, and I think he
really believes he has a chance this year. So I
think you're seeing a full throttle Lebron James and who's
(24:59):
just kind of will to do whatever. I mean, that's
to me, I mean, he's my goat. I know that's like,
you know, a contentious debate. It's kind of a silly debate,
But part of my reasoning is that, like, he really
can play one through five, like he can do anything,
and he makes everyone around him better as well. So
I think he is sort of like I know, Kevin
Durant gets a lot of credit for being like a
(25:20):
very plug and play superstar. I think that conversation at
some point, maybe after he retires, should probably be had
about Lebron because I do think if you plugged him
into pretty much any system, he could patch whatever hole
is there.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, I think that's very fair. I don't necessarily think
that was the case when he was in you know,
Miami or that. Rather, he kind of learned it in
Miami because he had to play with Dwayne who was
similar to the way he played Chris Bosh wasn't really like, yes,
he was. He was a jump shooter, but at that
point in time, the spacing element wasn't as volatile as
(25:58):
it is now. Felt like when he came to Cleveland,
he became that what you said, like a block and
play guy who you could basically throw him in to
any sort of lineup and he would just flourish. And
then yeah to La, So let's just take a quick
commercial break, and then let's get into talking about the
Lakers going forward, all right, Claire, So let's try to
(26:19):
look ahead to the Lakers going into the offseason. Like,
were we just sort of said they might win the championship?
We don't know, and that will will obviously also if
they do, that will change. I'm guessing what they'll go
looking for in during the summer. But even so, Lebron
(26:40):
is forty years old. We don't yet know how long
he's got left. He's got a player option for this
summer that he could pick up, he could decline. Like,
what are your ultimate thoughts on the Lakers in terms
of the summer, What should they be looking at? Should
they be fearful of Lebron opting out? Like what about
Dorian Phine's smith, there's a decision to be made there
(27:02):
on his part. What do you make of the offseason?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I mean, I think the number one priority for the Lakers,
you know, go heading into next year is like getting
Luca to sign that extension. I think that's you know,
that's sort of like the elephant in the room is
that I have been given no indication that he won't.
I think he's quite happy in La but that is
sort of like the priority number one. I think they
(27:26):
also at some point need to address the fact that
this this roster was built with Anthony Davis in mind
and not built with Luca Dondet in mind. So I
think they do need to add like another lob threat
at the very least. But besides that, I mean, I
don't think Lebron is going to be opting out like
I think Lebron is, you know, as we were talking about,
(27:47):
quite happy with the situation. I mean, it extends his
ability to extend his career, you know. I mean, who
knows if he'll take, you know, decide to take that route.
But he could play longer now than he could with
the former construct of this roster, I think, just because
of the load taken off of his shoulders on the
offensive end. So I think Lebron will probably stay another year.
(28:10):
I don't know. I was pretty sure pre Luca Tree
the next year was going to be his last year.
All indications had been heading that way, He'd been hinting
that way. I feel like he might play two more
years now just because his load is easier. That would
allow him to play at the same time as Bryce
and Bronnie, which I know would probably be really cool
(28:32):
to him. And yeah, and then there's also the Austin
Reeves issue. They have one more year with Austin, but
he's probably going to command. People think I'm crazy when
I say this. I really think they just are wrong,
but he's he could command, you know, between thirty to
thirty five million per year on the open market, So
(28:52):
that's going to be an issue that they need to resolve.
But yeah, I think just sort of plugging in a
couple holes in the roster. I think they're going to
see what happens in the playoffs and sort of the
playoffs sort of is the best way to expose flaws
for what they really are. So depending on how far
they go in the playoffs and what that looks like,
I think that'll inform if they keep guys like Ruyachimura
(29:15):
and Dalton. To your point, but I think Dorian is
a keeper because Luca adores him and he, in my estimation,
changed the complete identity of the team. So I would
say Dorian for sure. I think lebron for sure, and
I think I think they're going to do everything they
can to keep Austin. It's just more of a financial issue.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, because there's some financial limitations there. They while he's
going to be extension eligible Austin, he he's under a
sort of limitation here. The Lakers can only offer him
one and forty percent in an extension.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
He won't be taking that extension. I mean, I'm not
like breaking any news here. He makes like twelve million
dollars a year and he's, like I said, maybe the
best third option in the league. So there's there's no
chance he's taking it exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
So you have to assume he's going to enter unrestricted
free agency in twenty twenty six instead. So you know,
I'm very much assuming he's just going to play out
next year at the what is it thirteen point nine
million or something along those lines and just kind of
hit unrestricted free agency. So I almost think the Lakers
are going to like, all right, you know what, that's
that's a conversation for later, Like we just can't have
(30:20):
that conversation now because it's kind of pointless, and that
that it's almost helping them out as well, because that's
one less issue to deal with because they know they
can't do anything like they of course they can communicate
to them Look, we want to keep you. Look, we
want to pay way more than the one hundred and
forty percent. Right now, we just can't. Fortunately, there are
other alternatives also to getting better. Maxicliba is on an
(30:43):
expiring contract coming this offseason, not this year, but next year,
the same with Gabe Vincent. Collectively, that's twenty two and
a half million in expiring money. You could sort of
use that to get better, perhaps by finding someone. I
very much assume they're going to be looking at that
as well.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, for sure. I mean I think they're They're mostly
going to be trying to, you know, tweak and improve
on the margins to make this roster make a little
more sense with Luca as the focal point. But I
don't think they're going to be making any like super
dramatic moves this summer.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
No, and it would they would also be crazy to
do that. Like I agree with you that they have
to look at the roster and kind of say, okay,
it was in part built around a d who's no
longer there, so we have to make some changes. But
it shouldn't be you know, a top to down organizational change. Necessarily,
there are plenty of players who also fits Luca like
(31:40):
as you you know, he's a guy who's a bit
more of a score. I would argue, yeah, that is
something that is someone who can play next to Luca.
Luca will find him. He's gonna threepoint ranges on going
to get better. There's a lot like already at this yes.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
For sure. And I think we're seeing that. Like one
of the big sort of arguments against this team having
success this year with you know, right after the trade
was like, oh, well, this roster isn't good enough. It
doesn't matter if they have Luca and Lebron like whatever.
But you're seeing like they've been playing really good, winning
(32:15):
basketball against over five hundred teams. Like it's not like
they're just doing what Denver is doing and beating up
on all the teams, blow of them in the standings.
Like they're beating good teams with this roster. And so
I think you have to I don't think they're going
to make the same mistake they made after the championship
where they sort of like blew up a championship team
that I think they know that was a mistake. I
(32:36):
think actually Genie Buss has said as much that she
regrets not giving that team a chance to run it back.
So if they make any sort of deep playoff run,
I think you'll be looking at a really similar roster
next year.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
So in terms of Jared Vanderbilt, he's a guy who
I'm a little curious about because yes, he's primarily defensively driven.
There are times he'll hit that corner three and you'll
sort of like get that swinkle in one eye where
you got, Oh, if you could do that consistently. Yeah,
what is like the long term view in your opinion
(33:08):
of him seen through Laker eyes?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I mean, I think what's been true since he was
injured and is still true, is that he's worth more
to this team than he is on the open market. Like,
I don't think they could get anything for him back
in a trade that would be better than what he
brings to the table, because I think teams are really
hesitant with him because of his limits on the offensive
end and because of his injury history. But he's perfect
(33:32):
for this team. I mean, he brings something like that
you can't exactly measure as far as like defensive intensity,
and I do think that, like what you're seeing with
the increase in his three point shooting ability is a
direct correlation to how wide open guys get when you
have Luca Dants on the floor, like Lucas getting doubled
(33:53):
on basically every possession, and that's going to result in
wide open threes for other guys. And I think you're
seeing it dividends for guys like Vanderbilt. So yeah, I mean,
I think he's a little underrated as far as like
the box score isn't going to tell the whole story
of what Jared Vanderbilt brings to the table. But I
think him and Dorian, like their presence has created this
(34:18):
defensive identity which I don't think anyone would have predicted, Like, Okay,
the Lakers are going to lose Max Christy in Anthony
Davis and become the number one defense in the league, right,
I don't think that's a storyline anyone saw it coming.
And you can directly attribute that to Van do Oh
and Dorian.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
And it's also interesting now that you have Luca, you
have Lebron, you have Austin Reeze. Those are three playmakers
and I'm wondering out loud right now whether that's going
to be interesting to free agents who might be on
the other side of thirty. Not necessarily like late career guys,
but guys who are looking at the market going yeah,
(34:55):
you know what, they're not a lot of money out there.
Perhaps I will just take best situation imaginable and then
try again next year in terms of earning more money. Well,
best situation imaginable could be thekers. I wouldn't be surprised
if there are a couple ring chasers, Oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I mean I don't know, like what free agent wouldn't
like the idea of like Lebron and Luca, even putting
Austin aside. You know, if you factor Austin and basically
even if you're a bottom of the bench guy, you
never have to be on the floor without a high
level facilitator. There's always between the three of them, a
high level facilitator on the floor. I mean they make
(35:36):
you know, guys like Dorian who are three and d guys,
they give them tons of wide open looks from three
guys like Jackson Hayes, who have you know the ceiling
of being a high level lob threat. You're gonna get
a million lobs for like crazy dunk highlights like I mean,
they make I would say like C minus two B
plus players look like A players just based on the
(35:59):
looks that they get them and the feeds that they're
giving them. And then on top of that, you get
to play in the most prominent market in the world
and live in Los Angeles. Like, I feel like it's
a pretty it's a pretty sweet deal.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I would say, Yeah, I think so too. And it's
why I've been a little curious when I've seen, you know,
people make their well, not offseason predictions, but more or
less say all they're they're going to be in trouble financially,
where I'm like, well, I mean not if they get
a ton of guys in on min deals, yeah, are
far above like the value, then it actually looks pretty decent.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, I mean Jackson Hayes is on a minimum and
he's playing like at least a mid level exception guy.
I think so. I mean, it's definitely doable.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I think also, one like if the Lakers have the
luxury of really choosing, especially if there are more guys
out there who are willing to sign for less to
get there, it still has to be shooting though, Like
even though they I understand their defensive identity now and
that's probably going to be something that JG. Reddick is
going to try to uphold. But when you have Lebron
(37:05):
and Luca, like you gotta flank them with shooters as
as many as you can, orlist like you can't, you
can't go into the offseason and avid mindset that goes, oh, yeah,
we have too many shooters. That is not a thing
when you have those two guys.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
No, Yeah, for sure. I think I think the the
luxury is that for guys who are like good shooters,
like being that wide open once you're used to it,
once you get over the kind of shock of like,
oh I'm wide open, and how that can kind of
throw you off mentally, like it's definitely an elevator. But yeah,
I think the things you want around Lebron and Luca
(37:39):
have remained consistent. They're you know, similar players in that way.
You want shooters and you want lob threats. Yeah, and
that's that's you know, that's how you create spacing and
and a humming offense around them. So and I think
the Lakers know that. I think that's why they tried
to get Mark Williams at the deadline, like they wanted
to kind of show Luca, they were serious and that
they were going to get him his dream lob threat
(38:00):
right away. But you know, like I said, Hayes is
slotted into that role nicely, and I don't think I
don't think they'll have a ton of trouble finding those
sorts of guys. The issue is finding guys, to your
point earlier point, who are two way players who can
play both sides of the ball, And that's sort of
been their struggle I think the last few years is
(38:21):
like being able to find bargain guys with those skill
sets who can also play the other side of the
ball as.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Well, right, because that's where things get expensive, right, Like
you can find the lob threats, but if they're not
necessarily great defenders, you're like, yeah, you can get them
at decent price. But if there are good defenders, I
should say, then that price is going to get a
lot more expensive and really quickly too, And that's probably
where their financial limitations are going to come in. I
(38:51):
mean it's interesting though, because again I can't help but
see so many veteran players kind of go ooh, like
this could be a fun play to also, like rehab
value for example, like there are yeah, guys who might
have had down years, who are going to free agency, going,
damn it, this was not the best display window for
me this year, Like I have to wait a year
(39:13):
or two before I can really try to earn my money.
The Lakers can make such a compelling argument to these
guys as well, just like, oh, like it almost sounds
like an infomercial had a down year come here?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Well yeah, just totally yeah. I mean, and I think
you're seeing that, like I said, pay dividends for some
of their minimum guys already. So it'll be interesting. It'll
be interesting summer. It'll be interesting to see sort of
where this sort of unlikely successful roster can take them
in the playoffs, like how far they can go.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Well, on that note, Claire, last question, and then I'm
gonna let you get out of here. Will they win
a title this year? But I'm on the spot there,
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I know. I don't know as a cop out, but
I just feel like there are so many factors at play,
like even even putting aside all the other teams they're
in competition with, like just with their own health, because
I think they they have a roster that is very
as you've seen when whenever they've been down a few guys,
and like how they've played like without Lebron, say, and
(40:21):
when the few games that they didn't have Ruy and Jackson,
Like they don't have a ton of margin for error
with this roster because I think JJ only really has
like nine eight or nine guys he trusts. So I
don't want to say no, because I hope they do.
Because I as a as a as a Lebron is
the goat, you know, apologist. I would love to see
(40:42):
him get another ring, and I think this year would
be a great opportunity. So I would just say, I'm
always gonna take the field. This is a very political answer.
I'm always going to take the field against any specific
team winning the championship. So I guess I would begrudgingly
take the field, but I think they have a good shot.
That would be my answer.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
That was definitely a very good cop out, though I
like that cop out. Claire Delin, thank you so much
for joining me on this very Lakers oriented podcast. Yes,
let the good people know where they can find your work.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Oh well, thanks for having me. You can find me.
I write for The Guardian, so you can find me
over at the Guardian, and then I am on all
social media at Claire, MPLS and I generally like try
and live tweet all the Lakers games I go to,
and just I talk a lot of basketball in there,
(41:38):
if you're into that kind of thing, which if you're
listening to this you probably are.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Thank you so much for joining us, and thank you
so much for listening in everyone. Until we talk again,
please have a good and safe one out there.
Hi, my name is Morten Jensen, and you're listening to
the NBA Podcast. Hi, and welcome to the NBA Podcast.
My name is Morten Jensen, and today we'll be discussing
the Los Angeles Lakers. How have their first sixty six
games gone. Obviously, there's a little bit of a trade
(00:29):
that went down during the midseason that probably warrants some
level of attention as well to this whole thing. And
then we're going to try to look ahead to what
is going to go on after this year, because as
we know, Lebron is forty. I think that's a storyline
that's been covered a little bit in the media as well,
So that is what we're going to be talking about.
(00:50):
And to help me through that, I've brought in Claire Duloone,
who is writing about the NBA over that at The Guardian,
is doing a great job of that and is asking
Lebron some pretty kick ass questions in post game scrums. Claire,
how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you so much? That's very kind. I'm doing great.
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So the Lakers, obviously, it's been a tale of two seasons,
and I'm not just you know, splitting it between the
Luca Arrival like, because it did seem like even before
the trade, they were starting to find their legs a
little bit the early going in the season, up and
down very five hundred ish ball. What changed all of
a sudden, It seems like JJ Reddick, That's just my interpretation,
(01:29):
like suddenly snapped his fingers and figured it out a
way to have the team play more efficient defense. They
often seem more streamlined. But like, what's your read on it?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I mean, I would say, I wouldn't say it's necessarily
like one thing that you can point to that was
the catalyst. I think it makes a little bit of
sense that JJ Reddick, especially coming in as a new
coach to a team that was mostly the same and
all knew each other and was used to a certain system,
it would take a little bit of a learning curve
for him to become what I think is the excellent
(02:02):
coach that he is at this point. If I had
to pick one catalyst, I would say the trade for
Dorianfinny Smith when they moved D'Angelo Russell to the nets
and got Dorian phony Smith, Like he is very underrated
in my opinion, but that guy is a needle mover.
He's a culture changer. He is a dog on the
defensive end. He's just like a super down to earth
(02:23):
likes salt of the earth guy from the South who
just like is gritty and plays a really tough, very
aggressive brand of defense, which has now sort of become
their team identity. I think. So getting him in that
trade and then around the same time, getting Jared Vanderbilt back,
who's like a similar type of player, I think, really
shifted the identity of this team even pre Luca trade.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
It's interesting because this was a team where going into
this season I wasn't high on him because I thought
they had way too many one way players. Yeah, they
had a lot of offense only guys, a lot of
defense only guys Janceulo. While I appreciate the season he
had last year, I was sort of skeptical whether or
not he duplicate it, and unfortunately it couldn't. I think
(03:11):
your point about Dorian Phinney Smith is extremely interesting because
it did seem like when he came in, you know,
a lot of people peg him as a defensive oriented guy,
and to many extents, he is, but he's also capable
of hitting the three. He's also capable of cutting in
and doing stuff off the ball and just doing things offensively.
(03:32):
I know some Lakers fans will argue, oh, it's only
averaging a little under seven points per game, but that
almost fails to encapsulate his right. So I think for
them to actually get a guy in who is more
of a two way guy, who can compete on both
sides of the floor, it alleviated some concern from other players,
(03:52):
like they were able to lean into their skill sets
a little bit more. I thought it was such a
wonderful change of pace. It was a great trait for them,
and it kind of allowed a guy, in my opinion,
like Austin Reefs also to flourish because he was asked
to do a lot defensively, which I don't necessarily think
was his bread and butter. So for Dorian to come
(04:12):
in and take over those assignments and sort of like
let Austin become more of a figurehead offensively was interesting
for them. Could you attach some words to Austin Reefs
this year? He's been just phenomenal, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I mean, in my opinion, and I know it's I
feel like when you watch a team day in day out,
like I do you're gonna see things and notice things
that obviously like national player, like national media who's not
LA based, wouldn't see. I feel like he should absolutely
be in the conversation for most Improved this year. I
don't know if he will be. I think he deserves
(04:46):
to be, especially when you look at someone like Kate Cunningham.
I mean, I think Kate is very deserving. I think
he's incredible. I think he was a deserving All Star.
He'll be deserving All NBA when he inevitably gets that
as well. But he was a number one overall pick,
and he had sky high expectations, And to me, I
have a hard time sometimes with the most improved conversation
(05:07):
when it's a number one overall pick, because it's like,
if you're picked first overall in the entire draft, you're
expected to be exemplary, and so if you finally get
to that point where you are, I don't know to
me if that's like as notable as someone like Austin Reeves,
who went undrafted, played his way up to being a
(05:27):
meaningful role player, then to being a meaningful starter, losing
his starting spot temporarily last year, getting it back, and
then this year, I think having the most impressive productive
season of his career. I think he's being asked to
do a lot for this team, and on the nights
when there is no Lebron or when there was no
(05:47):
Ad when he was on the roster, when there's no Luca,
he absolutely steps up in whatever role is needed. If
they need sixteen assists, he gets that. If they need
forty points, he does that. And to me, I mean
as a number three option, he's right up there with
the best number three options in the league. And for
an undrafted player to be doing that, it's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
I think, oh, Claire, you are already a top five
guest by going the whole on the on the rant
of like former number one picks or top picks getting
MP consideration. This is something I've been talking about for
the better part of five years. I am so upset
at how the MIP Award has sort of shifted into
stars like John Morant winning it when he came in
(06:34):
as a second overall pick, for example. It just doesn't
sit right with me. So thank you for being another
voice in that continuous fight, because I honestly think you
should split it up into two awards. You can have
like something called the next Star thing like that would
be fine for Kate because clearly he is. But for
guys like Austin Reeves, for guys like tied to Rome,
(06:56):
like guys and Daniels, those type of guys, yeah, you
feel like they deserve that because what kind of award
are they looking at? Like, realistically down the line, probably
not a lot so exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, spread the
wealth a little bit. I too have been very impressed
with Austin Reeves. I think for him to also finally
show people that he wasn't just a catch and shoot
(07:18):
guy that a lot of people just pegged him as. Yeah,
that was very annoying to me. When then this day
back to like his second year in the league, when
everyone was like, oh, yeah, like he's the next Kyle
Korver or something where no, he's a.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Guy, Yeah he's he I and this is a hill
that I will die on. Like if he was tasked
with being a number one option on a team like
maybe like a fledgling Eastern Conference team like say, I
don't know, like the Hawks or the Hornets or something
like that. If he was slotted into that LaMelo role
or that Trey young role. I think he'd be an
All Star like. I think he is fully capable of
(07:55):
being a number one option on like a decent to
good team, or a number two option on like a
really great team.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Like.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I think his ceiling is way higher than what he's
been kind of given the bandwidth an opportunity to show
on the Lakers because he's been sort of slotted at
highest in that number three role pretty consistently for his
whole career.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I wonder as well if the ascension of his offense
and the volume of which he's been able to, like
play a sustained level a ball was also what they
felt like was sort of an argument in enough itself
to also be open to moving off of Anthony Davis,
Like because one thing is, yeah, you lose the defense,
(08:38):
but you also lose the offense. That's something I think
a lot of people sort of forgot about when they
traded him, Like, yeah, you got Luka Dontichin obviously, but
you you also knew he was just coming off an injury.
I think the Lakers looked at that and going, you know,
who can carry us through a couple of weeks. Austin
Reeves alongside Lebron, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
For sure. I mean I think a lot of the
sort of trying to extrapolate the thinking behind the Luca
trade I think is a little bit foolhardy, because I
think basically it was not that well thought out, and
it was just this opportunity presented itself, and it was
a godfather offer. It's like, do you want Luka Dantic
And it's like, yes, Like figure it out later, figure
(09:17):
the roster out later, figure the rest of twenty twenty
five out later, Just say yes because he's a twenty
five year old generational superstar and like, we'll sort out
the details later. So I don't know how much they
thought out, like how are we going to handle the
rest of this season when we're actually playing really well
and we have this opportunity. I'm sure it was considered,
(09:38):
and I think the decision was ultimately made like maybe
this season will work out, maybe it won't, but this
is a future play, I think is kind of where
the Lakers were looking. I do think they see Austin
as a long term piece ideally, and I do think
they're they're gonna have to pay him a lot of
money if they want to see that through. But I
(09:59):
think all the all the talk I've heard about Oh,
Like I was asked on another show recently, like do
you think Luca makes Austin redundant? And I totally disagree
with that. I don't really think you can have too
much ball handling and basketball IQ on the floor at
one time. I mean, I think that's like such a luxury.
And I think as long as you have unselfish players
(10:21):
who no ball and are down to pass when when
need be, like, the more kind of ball handling and facilitating,
I think, generally speaking, the better. And like you said,
Austin has been sort of miscast in like a catch
and shoot role before, so it's not like he doesn't
have the tools to do that if need be. If
Luke's handling the ball, Austin can you know, like be
on the receiving end of one of those passes. But
(10:43):
he can also run the offense when Luke is resting,
when Lebron's resting, And I think you've seen that work
out really well.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, it almost feels like they're sort of setting up,
you know, after the fact, because I agree with you.
When someone calls and says, do you want Luca, Yeah,
you got to listen and obviously just kind of grab
that thing. Yeah, it does feel like they're sort of
priming Austin to take over, like like that secondary creation
role when Lebron is one day you know long right,
(11:13):
you know, and that's the thing you can't even plan
on that. But but before we get to that conversation,
I want to ask you about Dalton connect because obviously
he got traded to Charlotte, the trade got rescinded, he
came back, and he was a little like overwhelmed.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
And yeah, that's understandably right. I would say that's pretty crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I've actually been very impressed with how he's returned, Like
he dropped thirty two just a couple of days ago,
also had a nineteen pointer about a week ago of
something along those lines. It feels like he sort of,
I don't know how to phrase this. I guess he
almost took it a little bit personally and was like, Okay,
let me show you guys what I am actually capable of,
which I think is just the like Chef's kiss, perfect
(11:55):
response to trading him.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Absolutely, and I think for Dalton, he's just stayed so
even keeled and measured, like I don't think I think
he is a guy that doesn't get too high or
too low. I think that's just his personality. He's sort
of just locked in, which is great. I think he's
also you know, he had a very unconventional path to
sort of college superstardom. He started out going to a
(12:18):
junior college and kind of worked his way through the system,
kind of like a Jimmy Butler esque path. And so
he's already dealt with a lot of adversity, and I
think that's definitely you know, feeds into it and is
part of it as far as like he has had
some punches thrown his way already. Actually had a sweet
go a little viral yesterday where I because I noticed something.
(12:40):
It was during a timeout and obviously Lebron wasn't playing
last night or yesterday afternoon, but Dalton. I saw Dalton
approach Lebron and ask him about something. It looked like
he was asking about a specific play, and Lebron took
the whole time out and sort of like acted out
the play for him and sort of like put him
in a position and was explaining all the different people
on the floor and where they would be and where
(13:01):
he should be, and was sort of pantomiming it, and
Dalton was just like so intently listening and obviously soaking
it all up like a sponge. And I thought I
shared that because I thought that was such a cool
moment to show, like to be in that position, to
be traded, to be cast aside by your team as
a first round pick, and then to come back and
(13:22):
not only be able to sort of like put the
ego bruise aside and just get back to work, but
also be like, who knows how long I'm going to
be a Laker, but right now I have Lebron James
as my bet and I'm going to like learn as
much as I can, which seems to be his attitude.
And Luka Doncic, like those are two guys that you
can learn a lot from and to have the sort
of forethought and wisdom to ask those guys for advice
(13:44):
and ask them questions, like I just think is really
encouraging about his development.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, because I was like immediately after that trade got rescinded,
it was probably a knee jerk reaction for my part,
but I was like, yeah, he's probably gone this somewhere,
like not not there wasn't be a player would accept
that kind of situation, but I'm rethinking that I don't
think that might be the case. I think he's kind.
He's just like you said, he's attacked in the same way.
(14:10):
He's just kind of been even keel about it, not
made a fuss. I think it was fair that he
did take some time initially ran off after the trade
and just kind of say, all right, you know what,
let me just wrap my head around this. And maybe
taking that time was what result in what we're seeing
right now, which I think is extremely mature.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah. I mean, my thing with I don't think Dalton's
going to like demand a trade or anything, and I'm
sure the Lakers would love to, you know, take part
in his development. My thing is, like I think they will.
The trade that was rescinded was to try and get
a starting caliber big to pair with Luka Dancic. I
think that's still probably the long term plan, and I
would imagine they try and make something shake this summer.
(14:50):
In that case, Dalton is one of their last few
like remaining like semi valuable assets, So I personally wouldn't
be surprised if he does get moved this summer. But
it won't be like an indictment on Dalton the player.
More so just like out of necessity. They have a
need on the roster that they that they need to fill,
(15:10):
and his his salary and upside are potentially going to
help them fill that.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
So let's try to not look ahead till next season.
We'll do that in the second segment, but let's look
ahead for the rest of this season. Now, obviously Luca
Lebron they play a lot of the similar brand of basketball,
but that's not necessarily a bad thing. What type of
ceiling do you think has now been like the new
(15:39):
ceiling that's been installed here? What what are we looking at?
Are we looking at, you know, a Western Conference finals birth?
Are we looking at less than that? Like? Where do
you think Lakers fans would be satisfied with? An oubt?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I mean, the cliche answer is that Lakers by Lakers
fans aren't satisfied unless the championship. They have like a
certain level of expectation. I do think this team is
a championship ceiling. They're really good and like I've watched
a lot of iterations of this team up close. I
think the team that went to the Western Conference Finals
(16:15):
a couple of years ago. I don't think they had
a championship ceiling. I don't think they had a good
enough coach. I don't think some of their like like,
I don't think d lo is like a player that
can play a prominent role in a championship team, like
no offense meant. But I just his brand of basketball
is not a particularly winning brand. I don't think.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
So.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
It's not like I'm because I'm there all the time
and day and day out watching this team, I'm like, oh,
they're a championship ptender every year. But like what we're
watching right now, what we've watched with this team, even
pre Luca trade for the last like two to three months,
is really special. And they're playing way ahead of their
skis on defense, Like for the personnel, they have to
be the number one defense in the league for like
(16:56):
you know, a month running or whatever it was, is impressive.
They have two of the best basketball minds ever on
the floor together. They have, in my opinion, like one
of the top four players in the world on the
team now. And while the roster has some holes, like
I just I think I find every team in the
(17:17):
West to be pretty flawed, even OKAC, which is by
far the least flawed, I still think has some notable flaws.
So I think it's kind of anyone's game in the West.
And yeah, I think I think the Lakers have a
championship ceiling. I wouldn't call them a front runner, but
I think they definitely have a punter's chance.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And it's like, I think the one thing that would
speak against that is the lack of size going into
a postseason where you can adjust from from game to game.
But at the same time, the game is won very
often nowadays on the perimeter. So while I understand that
need and I understand that argument, hell, I actually agree
(17:57):
with the argument at to a certain extent. I also
believe that if you can get the threes going, if
you can get the perimeter game going, you you can
get Lebron downhill because that opens up when you establish
an outside game, that sort of changes dynamic it a
little bit. And Lebron is still you know, we might
talk about him. You know, he's forty years old and
(18:18):
all that, he's still six nine, two fifty and athletic
as hell.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, and my I guess my counter argument to the
size conversation would be they do have a lot of size,
they just don't have a lot of like six eleven
and above size, But they're huge on the perimeter and
like they have a lot of wing depth. So if
you even look at like like Lebron and Luca are
(18:43):
like six seven and six eight respectively, Ruiz six eight,
Dorian and Vando are both on the larger end for wings.
So I think they're pretty big as a team. They're
just not like they're lacking in the center position. But
they've had a lot of success playing small ball. They
had a lineup out there that had like an insane
(19:06):
plus minus. I was watching and even the eye test
like bore it out. That's what made me look it up.
I was like, this lineup is amazing. It was Ruy, Lebron, Luca, Austin,
and Dorian Finney Smith I believe. And that's their like
small ball lineup. They were incredible. So, I mean, I
(19:27):
think I know a lot of people talk about, oh,
who do they have that's gonna stop Jokic. Honestly, I
don't think you can design your playoff roster around who's
going to stop Jokic, because nobody's going to stop Jokic.
Like I think the Lakers a lot of teams kind
of copycated what they did in Denver when they got
that win, which is just like just swarm Jokic and
just make it harder for him to do what he
(19:48):
does and then dare the rest of his teammates to
make open shots without his help. And I mean that
has been one of the more effective strategies you've seen
against Denver. So I don't know. I get the size argument.
That's definitely the biggest demerit against them, but I think
as far as demerits go going into the postseason, like
(20:09):
center depth is not it's not a deal breaker for
me at all.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Right, I'm glad you touched on the defensive end here
as well, because there's something I've noticed with Lebron this
year under JJ Reddick which I thought was very interesting
and still is last year. You know, he's he's older,
so I think it's fair to say he's not playing
defense for twenty minutes per game. That's just not something
(20:36):
Lebron can say at that age. He finds his moments,
like he'll take these two minutes here, three minutes there,
and like he'll cobble together like this sort of like
psycho intense defensive effort for the you know, the stamina
that he's got left more or less what under Darvin
(20:56):
Ham those came at random moments. On JJ Reddick, it
feels like those stretches have been far more deliberate, far
more designed, like going up against the Nuggets for example,
when he was on Yokichi was on Murray, Like everything
felt far more designed than before. Like it seems like
Reddick knows, Yeah, one of my superstars is forty years old.
(21:19):
I can't ask him to play as much defense as
you know, like Dyson Daniels for example, Like I had
to pick my spots, and now it's become such an
interesting web of like, oh, I have to use him here,
I have him use him there, I have him to
use him in this scenario, and it's made Lebron that
much more effective defensively. What's been your read on the
(21:42):
Bron this season? Is he playing with more sense of urgency?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I would? I would just I disagree on the idea
that he only plays defense for stretches. I think that
that was true, like you said, like in the Darvin
Ham years. I think especially for the last few months
prior to his injury, Like you saw how their defense
has taken a bit of a dip with him out.
He took on the Anthony Davis role of being sort
of like the fulcrum of their defense, which is insane
(22:06):
to do at forty years old. And I think dating
back to I mean, he's been playing JJ said this
in a press conference, and it's true. He's been playing
like an all defense level for a couple months if
you actually watch them, watch the games, and like, watch
what he's doing out there. And I think it only
was intensified by bringing in Luca, who can take some
(22:28):
of the pressure off of him on the offensive end.
He doesn't have to be their offense and their defense.
But like for a forty year old to say, okay,
so today, you need me to be Anthony Davis say
less like, I'll be Anthony Davis now and I'll play
like that. You need me to be Luka Doncic like
when before they got Luca Cool, I'll be the Luca
I think is remarkable. But I would say, like, I don't.
(22:51):
I think that the taking possessions off thing was true
for a few years there and maybe and then the
beginning of this season for sure, when they were asking
so much of him on the offensive end. But to
your earlier point, with the emergence of Austin Reeves and
also now having Luca, he can sort of play off
(23:12):
ball a lot more than I think he ever has
in his career, And instead of just conserving that energy
and just like saving it for a rainy day, he's
expending all that energy on the defensive end. And I
think he's been playing pretty much NonStop, like insane defense
for a couple months now prior to the injury, and
it's been crazy to watch.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
The fact that you now have Luca as a guy
who can set you up if you're Lebron as well,
it allows him to lean into like the quote unquote
power forward size that he's always had yeah as well,
which I always found to be an area that was
perhaps a little bit underutilized, probably by the sign as well,
because that is, you know, physically draining to play that
(23:53):
ball as well interior. But now at that age, because
he's so refined in his movement understanding patient space to
the extent that he is, I love the idea of
Lebron's sort of not relinquishing ball handling duties, but at
least being more open to Oh yeah, I'm going to
be more of a play finisher now than I'm going
to be a table setter.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah. I mean I think Lebron wants I've said this
on other shows before, but like Lebron wants to win
another championship I think more than anything in the world,
and so he will. He knows what the kind of
impact that would have on his legacy, and you know,
I think he wants it bad. And so what you
see the difference I think between like Lebron of last
(24:35):
year versus Lebron right now. It's the difference between someone
who believes they have a chance and someone who knows
that they don't probably really have a real chance because
he's just too smart to like go for it if
this morning cast isn't there. I think that's something consistent
you've seen throughout his entire career, and I think he
really believes he has a chance this year. So I
think you're seeing a full throttle Lebron James and who's
(24:59):
just kind of will to do whatever. I mean, that's
to me, I mean, he's my goat. I know that's like,
you know, a contentious debate. It's kind of a silly debate,
But part of my reasoning is that, like, he really
can play one through five, like he can do anything,
and he makes everyone around him better as well. So
I think he is sort of like I know, Kevin
Durant gets a lot of credit for being like a
(25:20):
very plug and play superstar. I think that conversation at
some point, maybe after he retires, should probably be had
about Lebron because I do think if you plugged him
into pretty much any system, he could patch whatever hole
is there.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, I think that's very fair. I don't necessarily think
that was the case when he was in you know,
Miami or that. Rather, he kind of learned it in
Miami because he had to play with Dwayne who was
similar to the way he played Chris Bosh wasn't really like, yes,
he was. He was a jump shooter, but at that
point in time, the spacing element wasn't as volatile as
(25:58):
it is now. Felt like when he came to Cleveland,
he became that what you said, like a block and
play guy who you could basically throw him in to
any sort of lineup and he would just flourish. And
then yeah to La, So let's just take a quick
commercial break, and then let's get into talking about the
Lakers going forward, all right, Claire, So let's try to
(26:19):
look ahead to the Lakers going into the offseason. Like,
were we just sort of said they might win the championship?
We don't know, and that will will obviously also if
they do, that will change. I'm guessing what they'll go
looking for in during the summer. But even so, Lebron
(26:40):
is forty years old. We don't yet know how long
he's got left. He's got a player option for this
summer that he could pick up, he could decline. Like,
what are your ultimate thoughts on the Lakers in terms
of the summer, What should they be looking at? Should
they be fearful of Lebron opting out? Like what about
Dorian Phine's smith, there's a decision to be made there
(27:02):
on his part. What do you make of the offseason?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I mean, I think the number one priority for the Lakers,
you know, go heading into next year is like getting
Luca to sign that extension. I think that's you know,
that's sort of like the elephant in the room is
that I have been given no indication that he won't.
I think he's quite happy in La but that is
sort of like the priority number one. I think they
(27:26):
also at some point need to address the fact that
this this roster was built with Anthony Davis in mind
and not built with Luca Dondet in mind. So I
think they do need to add like another lob threat
at the very least. But besides that, I mean, I
don't think Lebron is going to be opting out like
I think Lebron is, you know, as we were talking about,
(27:47):
quite happy with the situation. I mean, it extends his
ability to extend his career, you know. I mean, who
knows if he'll take, you know, decide to take that route.
But he could play longer now than he could with
the former construct of this roster, I think, just because
of the load taken off of his shoulders on the
offensive end. So I think Lebron will probably stay another year.
(28:10):
I don't know. I was pretty sure pre Luca Tree
the next year was going to be his last year.
All indications had been heading that way, He'd been hinting
that way. I feel like he might play two more
years now just because his load is easier. That would
allow him to play at the same time as Bryce
and Bronnie, which I know would probably be really cool
(28:32):
to him. And yeah, and then there's also the Austin
Reeves issue. They have one more year with Austin, but
he's probably going to command. People think I'm crazy when
I say this. I really think they just are wrong,
but he's he could command, you know, between thirty to
thirty five million per year on the open market, So
(28:52):
that's going to be an issue that they need to resolve.
But yeah, I think just sort of plugging in a
couple holes in the roster. I think they're going to
see what happens in the playoffs and sort of the
playoffs sort of is the best way to expose flaws
for what they really are. So depending on how far
they go in the playoffs and what that looks like,
I think that'll inform if they keep guys like Ruyachimura
(29:15):
and Dalton. To your point, but I think Dorian is
a keeper because Luca adores him and he, in my estimation,
changed the complete identity of the team. So I would
say Dorian for sure. I think lebron for sure, and
I think I think they're going to do everything they
can to keep Austin. It's just more of a financial issue.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, because there's some financial limitations there. They while he's
going to be extension eligible Austin, he he's under a
sort of limitation here. The Lakers can only offer him
one and forty percent in an extension.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
He won't be taking that extension. I mean, I'm not
like breaking any news here. He makes like twelve million
dollars a year and he's, like I said, maybe the
best third option in the league. So there's there's no
chance he's taking it exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
So you have to assume he's going to enter unrestricted
free agency in twenty twenty six instead. So you know,
I'm very much assuming he's just going to play out
next year at the what is it thirteen point nine
million or something along those lines and just kind of
hit unrestricted free agency. So I almost think the Lakers
are going to like, all right, you know what, that's
that's a conversation for later, Like we just can't have
(30:20):
that conversation now because it's kind of pointless, and that
that it's almost helping them out as well, because that's
one less issue to deal with because they know they
can't do anything like they of course they can communicate
to them Look, we want to keep you. Look, we
want to pay way more than the one hundred and
forty percent. Right now, we just can't. Fortunately, there are
other alternatives also to getting better. Maxicliba is on an
(30:43):
expiring contract coming this offseason, not this year, but next year,
the same with Gabe Vincent. Collectively, that's twenty two and
a half million in expiring money. You could sort of
use that to get better, perhaps by finding someone. I
very much assume they're going to be looking at that
as well.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, for sure. I mean I think they're They're mostly
going to be trying to, you know, tweak and improve
on the margins to make this roster make a little
more sense with Luca as the focal point. But I
don't think they're going to be making any like super
dramatic moves this summer.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
No, and it would they would also be crazy to
do that. Like I agree with you that they have
to look at the roster and kind of say, okay,
it was in part built around a d who's no
longer there, so we have to make some changes. But
it shouldn't be you know, a top to down organizational change. Necessarily,
there are plenty of players who also fits Luca like
(31:40):
as you you know, he's a guy who's a bit
more of a score. I would argue, yeah, that is
something that is someone who can play next to Luca.
Luca will find him. He's gonna threepoint ranges on going
to get better. There's a lot like already at this yes.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
For sure. And I think we're seeing that. Like one
of the big sort of arguments against this team having
success this year with you know, right after the trade
was like, oh, well, this roster isn't good enough. It
doesn't matter if they have Luca and Lebron like whatever.
But you're seeing like they've been playing really good, winning
(32:15):
basketball against over five hundred teams. Like it's not like
they're just doing what Denver is doing and beating up
on all the teams, blow of them in the standings.
Like they're beating good teams with this roster. And so
I think you have to I don't think they're going
to make the same mistake they made after the championship
where they sort of like blew up a championship team
that I think they know that was a mistake. I
(32:36):
think actually Genie Buss has said as much that she
regrets not giving that team a chance to run it back.
So if they make any sort of deep playoff run,
I think you'll be looking at a really similar roster
next year.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
So in terms of Jared Vanderbilt, he's a guy who
I'm a little curious about because yes, he's primarily defensively driven.
There are times he'll hit that corner three and you'll
sort of like get that swinkle in one eye where
you got, Oh, if you could do that consistently. Yeah,
what is like the long term view in your opinion
(33:08):
of him seen through Laker eyes?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I mean, I think what's been true since he was
injured and is still true, is that he's worth more
to this team than he is on the open market. Like,
I don't think they could get anything for him back
in a trade that would be better than what he
brings to the table, because I think teams are really
hesitant with him because of his limits on the offensive
end and because of his injury history. But he's perfect
(33:32):
for this team. I mean, he brings something like that
you can't exactly measure as far as like defensive intensity,
and I do think that, like what you're seeing with
the increase in his three point shooting ability is a
direct correlation to how wide open guys get when you
have Luca Dants on the floor, like Lucas getting doubled
(33:53):
on basically every possession, and that's going to result in
wide open threes for other guys. And I think you're
seeing it dividends for guys like Vanderbilt. So yeah, I mean,
I think he's a little underrated as far as like
the box score isn't going to tell the whole story
of what Jared Vanderbilt brings to the table. But I
think him and Dorian, like their presence has created this
(34:18):
defensive identity which I don't think anyone would have predicted, Like, Okay,
the Lakers are going to lose Max Christy in Anthony
Davis and become the number one defense in the league, right,
I don't think that's a storyline anyone saw it coming.
And you can directly attribute that to Van do Oh
and Dorian.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
And it's also interesting now that you have Luca, you
have Lebron, you have Austin Reeze. Those are three playmakers
and I'm wondering out loud right now whether that's going
to be interesting to free agents who might be on
the other side of thirty. Not necessarily like late career guys,
but guys who are looking at the market going yeah,
(34:55):
you know what, they're not a lot of money out there.
Perhaps I will just take best situation imaginable and then
try again next year in terms of earning more money. Well,
best situation imaginable could be thekers. I wouldn't be surprised
if there are a couple ring chasers, Oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I mean I don't know, like what free agent wouldn't
like the idea of like Lebron and Luca, even putting
Austin aside. You know, if you factor Austin and basically
even if you're a bottom of the bench guy, you
never have to be on the floor without a high
level facilitator. There's always between the three of them, a
high level facilitator on the floor. I mean they make
(35:36):
you know, guys like Dorian who are three and d guys,
they give them tons of wide open looks from three
guys like Jackson Hayes, who have you know the ceiling
of being a high level lob threat. You're gonna get
a million lobs for like crazy dunk highlights like I mean,
they make I would say like C minus two B
plus players look like A players just based on the
(35:59):
looks that they get them and the feeds that they're
giving them. And then on top of that, you get
to play in the most prominent market in the world
and live in Los Angeles. Like, I feel like it's
a pretty it's a pretty sweet deal.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I would say, Yeah, I think so too. And it's
why I've been a little curious when I've seen, you know,
people make their well, not offseason predictions, but more or
less say all they're they're going to be in trouble financially,
where I'm like, well, I mean not if they get
a ton of guys in on min deals, yeah, are
far above like the value, then it actually looks pretty decent.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, I mean Jackson Hayes is on a minimum and
he's playing like at least a mid level exception guy.
I think so. I mean, it's definitely doable.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I think also, one like if the Lakers have the
luxury of really choosing, especially if there are more guys
out there who are willing to sign for less to
get there, it still has to be shooting though, Like
even though they I understand their defensive identity now and
that's probably going to be something that JG. Reddick is
going to try to uphold. But when you have Lebron
(37:05):
and Luca, like you gotta flank them with shooters as
as many as you can, orlist like you can't, you
can't go into the offseason and avid mindset that goes, oh, yeah,
we have too many shooters. That is not a thing
when you have those two guys.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
No, Yeah, for sure. I think I think the the
luxury is that for guys who are like good shooters,
like being that wide open once you're used to it,
once you get over the kind of shock of like,
oh I'm wide open, and how that can kind of
throw you off mentally, like it's definitely an elevator. But yeah,
I think the things you want around Lebron and Luca
(37:39):
have remained consistent. They're you know, similar players in that way.
You want shooters and you want lob threats. Yeah, and
that's that's you know, that's how you create spacing and
and a humming offense around them. So and I think
the Lakers know that. I think that's why they tried
to get Mark Williams at the deadline, like they wanted
to kind of show Luca, they were serious and that
they were going to get him his dream lob threat
(38:00):
right away. But you know, like I said, Hayes is
slotted into that role nicely, and I don't think I
don't think they'll have a ton of trouble finding those
sorts of guys. The issue is finding guys, to your
point earlier point, who are two way players who can
play both sides of the ball, And that's sort of
been their struggle I think the last few years is
(38:21):
like being able to find bargain guys with those skill
sets who can also play the other side of the
ball as.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Well, right, because that's where things get expensive, right, Like
you can find the lob threats, but if they're not
necessarily great defenders, you're like, yeah, you can get them
at decent price. But if there are good defenders, I
should say, then that price is going to get a
lot more expensive and really quickly too, And that's probably
where their financial limitations are going to come in. I
(38:51):
mean it's interesting though, because again I can't help but
see so many veteran players kind of go ooh, like
this could be a fun play to also, like rehab
value for example, like there are yeah, guys who might
have had down years, who are going to free agency, going,
damn it, this was not the best display window for
me this year, Like I have to wait a year
(39:13):
or two before I can really try to earn my money.
The Lakers can make such a compelling argument to these
guys as well, just like, oh, like it almost sounds
like an infomercial had a down year come here?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Well yeah, just totally yeah. I mean, and I think
you're seeing that, like I said, pay dividends for some
of their minimum guys already. So it'll be interesting. It'll
be interesting summer. It'll be interesting to see sort of
where this sort of unlikely successful roster can take them
in the playoffs, like how far they can go.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Well, on that note, Claire, last question, and then I'm
gonna let you get out of here. Will they win
a title this year? But I'm on the spot there,
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I know. I don't know as a cop out, but
I just feel like there are so many factors at play,
like even even putting aside all the other teams they're
in competition with, like just with their own health, because
I think they they have a roster that is very
as you've seen when whenever they've been down a few guys,
and like how they've played like without Lebron, say, and
(40:21):
when the few games that they didn't have Ruy and Jackson,
Like they don't have a ton of margin for error
with this roster because I think JJ only really has
like nine eight or nine guys he trusts. So I
don't want to say no, because I hope they do.
Because I as a as a as a Lebron is
the goat, you know, apologist. I would love to see
(40:42):
him get another ring, and I think this year would
be a great opportunity. So I would just say, I'm
always gonna take the field. This is a very political answer.
I'm always going to take the field against any specific
team winning the championship. So I guess I would begrudgingly
take the field, but I think they have a good shot.
That would be my answer.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
That was definitely a very good cop out, though I
like that cop out. Claire Delin, thank you so much
for joining me on this very Lakers oriented podcast. Yes,
let the good people know where they can find your work.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Oh well, thanks for having me. You can find me.
I write for The Guardian, so you can find me
over at the Guardian, and then I am on all
social media at Claire, MPLS and I generally like try
and live tweet all the Lakers games I go to,
and just I talk a lot of basketball in there,
(41:38):
if you're into that kind of thing, which if you're
listening to this you probably are.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Thank you so much for joining us, and thank you
so much for listening in everyone. Until we talk again,
please have a good and safe one out there.
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