Hardwood Knocks Takeover: Easten Conference Offseason Grades

With Mort tending to private matters for the remainder of September, the sweet sounds of Dan Favale & Grant Hughes' voices will sweep through your ears instead. 

First up: Their Eastern Conference Offseason grades.

Odds via FanDuel Sportsbook

https://www.fanduel.com/research/nba

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
What is up, Fellasiko's I'm dan fa Valley coming at
you with my certified fantabulous host, mister Grant Hughes. We
are taking a break from our twenty twenty five twenty
twenty six NBA season look Ahead series to finally, at
long last, deliver our off season report cards.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
We said we were gonna wait out the restricted free agents.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
We waited out half of them. Over about two thirds
or exactly two thirds are the ones in the East,
so it's time. We don't know what's gonna happen with
Quenton Grimes, but so be it.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
We waited until this is later than last year.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Grant, we waited until September last year, but it was
not late September. As a quick reminder before we get started,
the Lookhat series is a bear, so subscribe if you
haven't already, but go check out all those episodes, share them,
comment on them. There's now hype points that you can
give on YouTube, so that helps the videos exposure. Can
you do that for us? We would appreciate it, both
Grant and myself. Other than that, check us out on

(00:59):
Spotify wherever you get your podcasts. Ratings have gone up,
so thank you. For helping us there, but leave reviews
on Apple those help us too. Those are all the
housekeeping notes. So we now get to the most important
question of the day, of the week, of the month,
of the year of the millennia. Quite frankly, Grant, how
the heck are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:16):
I feel a little disappointed in us because we caved
in the restricted free agency staring contest, which seems to
be how those have been defined. We just had to
do the podcast. We couldn't wait for Sorry, Jonathan Aminga
an agent Aaron Turner, Well, we didn't have time.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Kamina has time still, He's got like another week before
we get to the Warriors.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Just eons of time. Yeah, I'm glad to be here,
glad to do this. This is a good This isn't
like a closing the book on the off season necessarily,
because as you said, like it's kind of still ongoing
in pockets. But we're gonna get some grades down and
we are going to stop thinking about the off season
and look forward to the regular season with more look

(02:00):
aheads and just with more predictive stuff coming up. So
this is the look back, I think one of the
last look backs we're going to do before we turn
the page.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, for sure, and for anyone who's interested, we do
try to hold ourselves accountable, so there will be regrades
at some point after next season's over, so we can
go back and see where we got wrong. You're free
to get angry in the comments. I mean that helps
juice the out like it what they say. Any bad
publicity or bad engagement is good engagement technically, So you
can get mad. If you're right, we will revisit it

(02:28):
and you will see how wrong we are on some
of these. But before we dive in and our order
is going to be by division, so it's alphabetically by division.
We're really like we're playing we're playing with fire here, folks.
The straight alphabet is just tough for us to begin with.
How So when we're approaching this, just to lay out
the criteria, what do you think is the biggest element
that us and everybody else needs to keep in mind?

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, so to try to kind of I don't know,
not streamline it, but keep this as as as consistent
as possible for regrade purpose is among other things, what
we're looking at is we're trying to save ourselves work
ultimately down the line, That's really what this has all
been about. What we're looking at is team X. What

(03:11):
was Team X trying to do in the off season?
What were its goals as nearly as we can determine them?
And then from there, I think we have to weigh
in on and this will affect the grade for me.
I won't speak for you, but to a significant degree,
do we agree that what they were trying to do
is what they should have been trying to do? For example,
like if a team should have blown it up and didn't,

(03:33):
that's going to hurt their grade for me because they
just took the wrong path I think, in our in
my opinion. And then from there, while acknowledging whether or
not we agree with the direction they're going, how did
the moves they made serve that purpose? That that, to
me is kind of the two step process for our evaluation.
And then, as you always note, see is average C

(03:55):
is that like that's not a bad grade, it's you
did fine. We're not saying you did poorly. We're also
not saying you did well. It was it was like satisfactory.
Anything to add to that, because I'm trying to keep
it like fairly concise with our with our our criteria.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
I think the only thing I would add is that
these are not not every team is graded on the
same scale because all of them have so throw out
their directions for a minute. All of them have different
types of resources available. The Nets had cap space and
basically no other team did. So it's like they're like
you're viewing them through that lens. And also their aims matter,
so whether we agree with it or not, as you mentioned,

(04:33):
the Nets are not trying to win, and so the
fact that they don't look like a playoff team, they
don't just get an F.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
This is not straight.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
We're grading teams according to what's their win loss record
going to be. It's relative to expectations and their vision
and as Grant mentioned, but I'll just echo like, yes,
our subjective opinions on was this the right move or
direction will creep into how we go about evaluating all
of these squads.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yep, well said, do you have any You have anything
else to add?

Speaker 3 (05:00):
I don't think so. I think we should get into it.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
We begin with the Atlanta Hawks. Do you want to
take us through this first list of transactions?

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (05:07):
So, the big one that will probably take up a
fair amount of our discussion here. On draft night, the
Hawks traded the number thirteen pick to the Pelicans for
number twenty three and a twenty twenty six first round
pick unprotected. That pick will be the most favorable of
the Pelicans or Milwaukee's. I think you have Indian the
graphic unless I have that wrong. Oh yeah, so we'll

(05:32):
get into that. Just to run through a few more here.
Atlanta also acquired Nikhil Alexander Walker and a sign and
trade for Cleveland's twenty twenty seven second and a one
and a half and one point five million Alexander Walker
that was then signed as part of that to a
four year, sixty point six million dollars deal. There's a
player option on the final year. Signed and traded Clint
Capella to Houston. That was part of a much larger

(05:53):
trade for a twenty thirty one second round swap coming
from the Rockets and David Roddy, who was waived. They
created six point seven million dollar tree exception there. What else.
Traded the number twenty two pick in Terrence Mann to
Boston for Kristaps Porzingis, who's on an expiring thirty point
seven million dollar salary. Signed Luke an Art to one year,

(06:13):
eleven million dollar deal as the non tax part of
the non tax mid level traded Kobe Buffkin. We hardly
knew y to Brooklyn.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
For one hundred and ten thousand dollars the minimum.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
Amounted the minimum amount. Boy, what a what a saga?
The Kobe buffkinsa just really never got off the ground. Yeah,
So sign Nefali Dante to a two year, four and
a half million dollar deal, and signed Nicola Jurisich, the
number forty three pick, to a three year, five point
nine million dollar deal. Only the first year of that

(06:44):
contract is guaranteed. So Dan, we're going to start here.
I think there's kind of there's like one big trade,
the Draft Night trade, and then sort of the accumulation
of three starting caliber but we'll just call them rote
level pieces to have kind of built a pretty nasty

(07:04):
eight man group for a Hawks team that uh, notoriously
tax averse, but is trying to win as best as
it can this season. So how would you define their direction?
And then what do you think about take any of
those moves that you want to like hit first in
service of that direction.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
This has this become a cliche, but it feels like
they're trying to straddle two timelines to where they clearly
have some young guys they're invested in, but they also
want to win now, and they're also trying to juggle
all of that with Well, Trey Young is extension eligible,
and as we're recording this, Trey Young does not have
an extension. He's gonna have a player option for next summer.
So you don't want to get in too deep, like

(07:43):
going all in on necessarily any one direction, especially when
you don't know what's gonna happen with Trey. However, because
your first round picks are going to be controlled by
the Spurs in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven,
you're kind of obligated to go for it, even though
you've replaced a lot of that draft equity, I mean,
the unper detect to pick you got for dropping down
ten spots in the draft. And when you look at

(08:05):
how they went about that goal, I would not only
say they aced it, but they almost idealized to me
the vision of what a team should look like around
Trey Young, because I think it's not just about, oh,
look at all of these different rangeye defenders that they have.
You can say, look at all this, these rangy defensive
players they have who are not liabilities on the offensive

(08:28):
end either, and so there might be some questions about
the secondary ball handling still, maybe the shooting overall. I
still don't really know what Dyson Daniels is going to
be on offense, even though he showed some strides last year.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
But you have a team that can conceivably defend at
a high level.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Around Trey Young. You've given him a real floor, spacing
big and like the offense could. It feels like the
offense and the defense can peak at the same time,
which is not something that you could even going back
to the Eastern Conference Finals team from basically a half
decade ago, I don't think you ever could have said
that about that squad. So I look at this and

(09:04):
I say they were trying to straddle a tricky line,
but I feel like they did it and then still
somehow exceeded expectations relative to it.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, I think it's interesting that this is the first
team we're gonna talk about, and it's and I'm gonna
sort of dismiss some of our criteria right off the bat,
Like whatever you think their goals were and I do
you have to factor in lack of control of some
incoming of their own future first rounders sort of means
you like tanking was never on the table, not that
you would have with this roster that has young pieces

(09:35):
and is promising. It is pretty good if you just
go down the list of the major transactions, starting with
the Draft night trade, like that's just a smart, good trade.
Like the value they got there is insane, like we're
gonna kill the Pelicans for I mean, it's sort of
like we're just the horse has been dead for months
and we're just still kicking it on this one, I think.
And everybody is like, this is a short of Luka.

(09:55):
Doncis like, is this the most universally like recognized heis, uh,
that we've seen in just a long time, right, like
ten spots of moving up for right, if you if
you rule out that trade, the Luca trade, that this
is one of the I think that the draft pick
that that Atlanta got here is I think pretty clearly
the most valuable one to change hands this offseason, right,

(10:17):
and and and it cost him a ten spot drop
in in you know, middle of the first round. So uh,
that's a win. Whether you're trying to be better this
year or in five, right, Like, that's just the value,
that's the values right there. Getting porzingis for nothing, Luke
Canard at that number totally fine, whether you're just looking
for help for your young guys now or someone that's

(10:39):
gonna be on the floor in fourth quarters potentially because
you need secondary playmaking and shooting. Alexander Walker, we love him.
That's a good that's a good pay rate for a
player of his caliber that could start for you. He's
not going to, but if you needed him to write,
and so it's just like.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Well they have the other thing.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
They have seven you mentioned like eight, like of the
eight guys that you like, seven of them have a
case to just start.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Sure, which is insane and and just again to just
to drill down on it. Whatever you think Atlanta's intentions were,
these are moves you make regardless because like, well, well,
if we're rebuilding, we don't want Alexander Walker at that number. Yeah,
actually I think you might because you can trade him
for positive value if it comes to that, right, Like,
if you need to pivot into a tank, he's a

(11:22):
valuable you're gonna get something good for him. So most
of Atlanta's major moves, all of them really just makes sense,
regardless of what you think they should have been trying
to do. Like you just they're all ones you say
yes to. From Atlanta's perspective, the just a couple quick.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Notes that pick and this really just has says everything
about the Pelicans more so than the Bucks. Who there's
some variants, I think in their best and worst case outcomes.
But would you be shocked if that twenty twenty six
first round pick is not a lottery selection?

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Uh? Yeah? Framed it another way, Do I expect it
to be a lottery selection? Yes, I do very strongly.
I mean, like I honestly think like the odds of
it being a top five pick are pretty high just
just because like Zion goes down, the Pelicans are one
of the five worst teams in the league. We're just
that's where we are. And it doesn't even that doesn't
even need to be the thing that happens that gets
on that low.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
I think the other thing is that Zion could not
go down and the Pelicans still might be one of
the five.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
That's what I mean.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
It does that that that would be sufficient Like if
Zion getting hurt would be sufficient to get them a
top five pick. It's not necessary. There are other ways
that this could get you know, this could be such
a high value asset.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
The other thing, I don't I know Luke Canard can
do things off the dribble. I might like to, but
I don't know what the alternative was. But I've preferred
Tias Jones here Luke Canard probably not because at least
Luke Canard can play alongside Trey Young, but giving him
eleven million dollars and now without Kobe Buffkin there, not
that he was going to play a big role. It's okay,
you really need Jalen Johnson, Dyson Daniels and Luke Canard

(12:50):
to do a lot of ball handling unless you're gonna
expand that part of Zachary Resiche's game. Again, just nitpicking here,
and I'm gonna follow it up with a compliment. You
give up on Kobe Buffkin, which in a way was
cost cutting move, but because you just have those trade
exceptions and now you're more than seven million dollars beneath
the tax, which we all know that the Atlanta Hawks
are not gonna pay. They become a team to watch

(13:11):
on the trade market, like they still have thirteen plus
million I think from the Bogdanovitch trade exception and then
plus the six point seven million dollar TP that you
noted they created as part of the Klin Capella sign
and trade. That's just really smart for an office maneuvering.
The one thing that I feel like I really could
have her them home for is like, why wasn't a
ci Sala like just named like the lead front office
executive right off the bat, because this is a master

(13:33):
stroke of an off season.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
It is great, it's in it like we can we
can dispense the spoiler's.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Grit, which is the entire point of the process there.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
But yeah, they weren't easy a I don't know, like
how much better it necessarily needed to be. This is
not I I'm ready to say spicy things about the Hawks.
Next season, they are they could be one of the
four three or four best teams in the Eastern Conference.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
We move on to the Charlotte Hornets, So we begin
with They drafted Conkinipple number four. They traded Mark Williams
and Phoenix's own twenty twenty nine second round pick back
to the Suns for the number twenty nine pick, which
became Liam McNeely, also Vasilee Michitz, and a twenty twenty
nine first round pick. That first round pick is going
to be the least favorable of Cleveland, Minnesota and Utah.

(14:16):
They then traded Vassille Michits to Milwaukee for Pat Conaton
and two second round picks in two thousand and thirty
one and two thousand and thirty two. They re signed
Trey Mann to a three year, twenty four million dollar deal.
There's a team option on the final year of that contract.
They signed Mason Plumbley to a one year minimum deal.
They signed Spencer didn't Way to do a one year
minimum deal. They signed the number thirty four overall pick

(14:38):
Ryan Kalkbrenner to a four year ten million dollar deal,
the first two years of which are guaranteed. And they
signed the number thirty, the thirty third overall pick si
On James, to a four year, ten million dollar deal
that's also the first two years.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Are guaranteed grant. What is what was this team trying
to do this offseason?

Speaker 3 (14:56):
Well, I think so, Charlotte. The pivot since the Jordan
ownership changed over has kind of been to just focus
on picking up little wins. It feels like and not reaching,
not thinking you're closer than you are to I don't
know what you want to say, playoff contention, play in contention, whatever,
It's really just been about smart asset management, opportunistic trades.

(15:20):
Like there's the case in point. There's nothing here as
we're looking at the rundown that feels like it's not
like a high impact move or not anything you'd say was.
We're talking about second round picks and salary dumps and
like just little you know, little flips here and flips there,
small smart signings of guys that are like I don't know,

(15:40):
maybe they're deep rotation players talking about like the plumb
Leis and Dinwitties of the world to minimum deals. I
just think Charlotte is trying to be patient, trying to
be careful, trying to manage his assets, trying to accumulate
assets that maybe there's a point down the road where
all these extra seconds are picking up turn into or
facilitate a larger deal. They're just not overstretching themselves and

(16:02):
they're not chasing short term gains. So I don't know
if that, I don't know how how I would like,
in one word, describe what their intentions are other than
to just maybe the word is like deliberate or or
like measured. So but to that end, like they made
just a bunch of little and I don't use that

(16:23):
as a pejorative, like smart transactions. Nothing nothing earth shattering,
nothing needle moving, but just picking up assets where they
can right like, and I think that's what they should
be doing. So I guess maybe the starting point is
I agree with their approach. You can't do this forever,
but for now, I think it makes sense given where
they are.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
They also, was this not an off season trade?

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Because I don't have it on here and I'm just no,
I must have skipped it over, so I'll edit and post.
But they traded use of Nurkic for Collin Sexton and
a two thirty second round pick. That trade is still
like one of the most puzzling ones to me from
the Jazz is respective. They gave up great, They gave
up the better player on the better contract, and they

(17:07):
were the ones including picks. I don't I think I've
mentioned this before. My favorite conspiracy theory is that they
did it so that Charlotte wouldn't take Ace Bailey before them,
and that I would respect it if that's why it
was done, but that would be a small price pay.
I would echo everything you say there. And I also
just like the idea that, Okay, you can look at
this team and say, why haven't they done anything more

(17:28):
aggressive at the center position. I don't think getting into
the Mark Williams long term business was going to be
a great idea for them anyway, And there's something to
be said about leaning into actual shooting around the mellow
ball like his teammates the past three seasons, Grant. This
is where his teammates have ranked in three point efficiency

(17:49):
twenty twenty three, the zero fixth percentile, twenty twenty four,
the eighteenth percentile, twenty twenty five, the eighteenth percentile. So
like having Conker Nipple, Liam McNeely, Colin sext In, if
Trey Mann is healthy there. I like the fact that
they have actual floor spacing and even secondary creation around
him to where now if Brandon Miller goes down again

(18:10):
or has a down year, they're not like they have
other options on the offensive end to go about that.
And I just like to echo what you said again.
I like that they're not rushing anything from that perspective,
and so there's probably still things that need to be
done with the futzing and fiddling of filling some holes.
But I think that they had a really good or

(18:30):
like a rock solid offseason overall. If you're looking for
them to make this big win loss jump if they're healthier, maybe,
but that should not have been the endgame of this
offseason specifically.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
So where did you end up? Would you end up
giving them?

Speaker 3 (18:45):
I gave him a B. I think it's just like
I guess, really you could give it an A just
because they kind of succeeded in their modest goals, but
be felt about right, just like, no, I don't have
any you could criticize the man, but it's like it's
eight million dollars a year. Who cares like that? That
could actually pay off if you lose LaMelo for any
stretch of time, you got somebody else that can handle

(19:06):
the ball.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
And he's been when he's been healthy on the road,
like he's flame throwing in Charlotte for the most part,
So I think that's reasonable. I went B plus, like
you said, you probably could bump up.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
To an A. I really like mcneili and Canipple.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
But I think I probably just watched too much Summer
Lea and went off vibes, so that could be trying
to like take that in there. I think the reason
not to give them an a would be, I don't
know if Diabate or Mason Plumley or call Bretten like
that's your center rotation.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
That's right. You can still not mortgage.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Your future and have a better center rotation than perhaps
the worst center rotation in the league.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
It's pretty rough.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Hurry up to next grant.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
So they drafted Kasparasikucionis at number twenty uh. Brought back
Davian Mitchell for two years and twenty four million. Traded
Duncan Robinson to the Pistons for Simoni fontechio U, Kyle
Anderson and Kevin Love to the Jazz for Norman Powell
from the Clippers. Kind of a three team deal there.
I may talk about this when traded Hayward high Smith
and a twe thirty two second to the Nets for

(20:01):
a twenty twenty six second. Brooklyn's twenty twenty six twenty
twenty six second has top fifty five protections, so uh,
fake high real high value there. Yeah, fake pick signed
Drew Smith to a three year, seven point nine million
dollar deal. The first year that's guaranteed picked u Kashaw
Johnson's two million dollar team options, so uh not your

(20:22):
I don't know. I've been thinking a lot about this lately,
Like do we need to sort of recalibrate our impression
of the heat as just like relentless big game hunters
that this is a failure because they didn't go out
and trade for the next All Star or you know
what I mean, Like that's that's the reputation they seem
to have. I would say though that like find me

(20:43):
the transaction here that's subjectively pull like there's nothing bad here.
He really, Oh well, the high Smith one may may
be worth talking about, but like the focus for me
is getting like Powell's not gonna be as good as
he was last year. Like that's just an insane, out
of nowhere career. You're at an advanced age. But for
Kyle Anderson and Kevin Love like and this is Tyler

(21:03):
Hero by the way, just as we're recording today ankle surgery,
So any concerns you had, like, well, can Powell and
Hero be in the same backcourt together. I'm not gonna
have to worry about that for a while. So Palell's
just a really good scorer that they got for nothing.
What do you want to talk about Highsmith? Is that
where you're leaning? I feel like we should discuss that
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
I just don't.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
I know, he's injured, but he's on an expiring contract
for under six million bucks and you needed to give up.
But this just proves that the Heat still don't value
second round. But twenty thirty two second round pick to
get off that money, that's gonna be a situation where
and we'll get to the nets.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
But they're gonna get a pick for him, and they're
gonna get a pick when they trade him again. Right,
I don't that's I know.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
That's the thing that like they're gonna why why not
if it's the tack, if it's a tax issue or whatever,
just keep high Smith and trim somewhere else because you
know you're gonna be able to flip high Smith to
a contender.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
I think what the problem is is that they really couldn't.
They're not built to cut somewhere else without giving up
multiple players, and Terry Rosier is just a non starter.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
But here's my thing.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
You have until the end of the year the league
year to get out of the tax did was Hayward Heigsmith.
Is the injury so bad that he's just gonna have
no value afterwards and you're gonna be saddled with what
would have been a smaller tax bill. So I don't
understand the urgency of Miami to make that move. It
was like, it's not unforgivable, but the logic to me

(22:23):
was kind of baffling, is the way I would put it.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
It makes you feel like there's something we don't understand, right.
It's that kind of trade where it's like, what that
doesn't that doesn't add up to me. It's it feels like,
again we regard the heat as like pretty smart transactors, like,
what what's going on here with this one that that
doesn't there's something fishy about that one.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
And maybe it comes out that the injury is worse
and then that's aren't able to get value for him
or something. But I'm like, looking at what he shot
from three last year, the defensive workload, he shoulder, and
they gave up the second round pick. It just it
felt premature to do that. And by the way, worst
case scenario, let's say he's a net zero, you can't
just send that same exact contract and that same as
to asset into a team's trade exception or mid level

(23:02):
exceptions at the trade deadline.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, definitely could have done that otherwise.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
I mean, the Powell deal looks even better now because
of the Tyler hero injury. And as you said, he's
Powell's not gonna be as good as he was last year,
but he showed growth as this player who doesn't need
to play alongside another top tier creator all the time.
He shot over fifty percent from two and over forty
two percent from three when playing without both Harden and
Kawhi Leonard and so like the heat have bam Adebayo. Still,

(23:30):
I think Pelee Larson is gonna be big for them
this year. Uh, but just to get him, like in general,
for when an offense that struggles to draw fouls and
generate pressure on the rim without Jimmy Butler and he's
no longer there and was barely there last year to
begin with, that's something that Norman Powell can do.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
It's not the traditional from scratch.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Creation, but getting downhill drawing Fowls bombing the hell out
of three pointers, and you gave up nothing and no
one who was important to your short or your long
term right vision here and by the way you talk
about at the top, we view the Heat as these
big time transactors. Their approach or more conservative approach to
not going harder after Kevin Durant. I'm sure they would

(24:11):
have went hard after Johans like who else was available?

Speaker 3 (24:13):
Number one?

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Like they didn't need to be the Desmond Bayne team.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
This approach was almost validated or absolved if you were
in disagreement with it because of the Tyler Hero injury,
because where were they gonna go had they let's say
they trade for Kevin Durant, You're much worse without Tyler
Hero if he goes down anyway, So I think, like
on balance, this ended up being a pretty good offseason
for them.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yep, I agree. I So I gave him a B minus.
I had him at a B and then the more
I thought about the high Smith trade, the less I
liked it, and I just dumped him down to a
B minus.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
I stuck with a BEE.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
I think the Norman Powell trade was like kind of
that big of a steal, and it's also sort of
why you know, it's a good thing that they weren't
trying to wait to like go after another big player.
Because the Clippers like basically needed to make that deal
to ensure they could get Bradley Beale. It felt like,
you're just it's not even you look at the Clippers
end of it. It's not like it was a heist
for the heat. But it's not because the Clippers were stupid.

(25:06):
It's because there were these other moving parts involved. The
only thing that I could have dinged them for is
I was for a team that claims to be prioritizing
cap space. I was surprised that Davion Mitchell got two
guaranteed years. I think the deal is fine, but that
was the one that stood out to me. Now, I
don't think I think capspace is officially overrated. It can
be used in trades, but grant, when's the last time
you saw a player who's gonna make an All NBA

(25:28):
team just traded into cap space?

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah? Right, this is part of the apron error reevaluations.
We have to do, Like what just we got to
stop fixating on all they could spend. They got this
much spending power. Okay, what's gonna come of it? Because
it doesn't seem like it matters as much.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
So in my head, I'm like, oh, they could have
had forty plus million in cap space if Davion Mitchell's
deals not guaranteed and Andrew Wiggins ops out. And it's
one Andrew Wigs might not opt out in two. I
don't know that it matters that if you like forty
million dollars and thirty million dollars in cap space, I
don't know that it would make a difference for them.
So I went b our Next team up, mister Grant
Hughes is the Orlando Magic.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
They are my team. They did some stuff. Did you
know they did some stuff? Grant?

Speaker 3 (26:08):
You think we're my.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Breaking news to you?

Speaker 1 (26:10):
So the big one they traded Cole Anthony Contagious called
Loo Pope, the number sixteen pick, which became Young Hansen
a twenty twenty six first via Orlando Phoenix or Washington
a twenty twenty eight first, and the twenty twenty nine
first that's a swap, as well as a twenty thirty
first to Memphis for one Desmond Baine. They drafted Jase
Richardson at number twenty five. They traded number forty six,

(26:34):
which ended up being a Mauri Williams number fifty seven
match Max Shuga, a twenty twenty six second round pick
most favorable from Detroit, Milwaukee, Orlando, and a twenty twenty
seven second round swap to Boston for what was the
number thirty two pick. They selected Noah Penda signed him
using the I think that ended up being the second
round exception type deal. They signed Higas Jones for one year,

(26:56):
seven million dollars that came out of their non tax
player mid level exception. They re signed Mo Wagner for
one year five million dollars, and then they signed Palo
Bankaro to a five year, two hundred and forty one
point four million dollar max extension. It can go up
to almost two hundred and ninety million dollars if he
makes all NBA. So that's the thirty percent language And

(27:17):
unlike Franz Wagner, Grant.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
He got a player option. Goodwre you what was what
were the magic trying to do here? Grant? Can you
identify that for me?

Speaker 3 (27:27):
I think they were trying to do some version of
what we and everyone else has been screaming at them
to do for going on. It feels like forever, but
really like two plus years, which is you have to
improve the offense, you have to find shooting, you have
to find playmaking in the back court. So Desmond Bane
Antias Jones, much to a much lesser extent, address those

(27:50):
things now. Uh I don't you. Critics could say, well,
a couple of things. One that's too much first round
equity to give up for a player in Bain who's
never made an All Star Game, has like one hundred
and sixty plus coming his way over the next four years,
and you still don't have enough shooting would be like

(28:10):
the one guy still still not enough, because if Franz
Wagner is gonna shoot under thirty percent, that's a problem. Paolo,
I think it can improve there, but I don't think
ben Caro is going to be someone that's getting up
ten threes a game and hitting you know, thirty six,
thirty seven, thirty eight percent of them. Maybe that happens,

(28:31):
but yeah, So they're trying to win now, they're trying
to climb the East standings in a season where Boston, Indiana,
potentially the Sixers are all compromised by injuries. The first
two definitely, the third one probably, so with some distance
from it. How does the five first round assets for

(28:54):
Desmond Banes strike you now today as a value proposition.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
I think it's fine, but it's not.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
And a part of the value there is they got
off the KCP contract, so you were paying for that
as well. And the other thing too is I think
some people painted as you got off the Cole Anthony contract,
which I thought that was overblown. But also he ended
up brokering a buy out with the Grizzlies, so maybe
having the one guaranteed year on his deal actually at thirteen.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Million was pretty bad.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Desmond Bain can be an All Star in the Eastern Conference.
He's the exact he's I don't think he's the only
player that they needed, but he is one of the
exact archetype of players that this offense needed. And if
you told me that the top of this team, and
I mean Jalen Suggs, Desmond Bain, Palo Bank Hero and
Franz Wagner all remain healthy, there is a chance that

(29:44):
the Magic just have a top ten offense or at
least in elite offense when their best players are on
the court. But what you said, I think here is striking.
They still don't necessarily have enough shooting. Your there's the
shooters I trust on this team are Desmond Bain, I
trust Jalen Suggs, and we can pretty much stop there.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
And a lot of people, by the way, would say
I don't trust Jalen Suggs like that that I agree
with you to some extent, but like I'm just I'm
just emphasizing your point, like even that is like I
don't know, maybe.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
So And I think look, the the Franz Wagner jumper
stuff euro basket didn't necessarily help with the way people
are going to view that.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Like you said, with ban Caro, I think.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
The efficiency is gonna end up being so much better
because of all the space he has, But I don't
know what the volume proposition there is going to be
for him. So this is not to like crap all
over what they did, because they need like Tias Jones
is gonna end up I think, being pretty big to
this team. I'm curious to see whether Jamal Mosley plays
him because we know that he favors the defense first players.

(30:48):
But they still need to get like that's not it.
You have enough creation and playmaking in theory from Wagner
and ban Caro and Baine and even Suggs, but you
don't have a game manager to it's just like someone
who's gonna put players in their spots to run more
of like the traditional offensive stuff. And I think that
I think Ben Carroll could probably get there, but like
that's not Desmond Bain's game. No, like that's not really

(31:11):
Franz Wagner's game. So there's a having tire Stones important.
I'm curious say how much he plays. So I think
that was a great signing, but it like sort of
at the end of it all the two things that
stand out of they're shooting and then Grant like the
wing depth yere is not great, Like you really need
Tristan da Silva to be good or like a no
appenda to contribute as a rookie. It seems like the
ship has sailed on the Jet Howard experience. So it's

(31:35):
and that's a weird thing. You have Franz Vagner, you
have Padlo, Ben Carroll, you have Desmond Baine. But like
when you start to look at the bench, like this
team is kind of like shallow ish where it's definitely
shallow on the wings. You have bigs like for days
and my final this is more of a musing.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
It didn't factor into their grade.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
But I do look at this as a roster that,
oh they're gonna trade somebody because they're within five point
six million dollars of ducking attacks and with ben Carrol
extension kicking in next year, having traded for Baine, having
extended Franz Wagner, I don't think there's a chance in
hell that they allow the like the tax repeater Clark
to clock to start this year.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
So yeah, I agree. A couple of things I'd add,
just on the Bane front. It it's a lot just
the volume, the number of picks, if you could, if
you consider it from like an opportunity cost like standpoint
of well, what could you get in a separate trade
involving two of those or something, you know something, It's
just like that. That is a lot of first round assets.
But if Orlando's as good as it should be as

(32:35):
a result of this trade, they're gonna be in the twenties,
maybe you know what I mean like that, So you
I guess that's not always a fair way to evaluate
outgoing picks. It's like, well, we're gonna be good, so
they wouldn't have been that useful to us, Like that
kind of dismisses their value as potentially being used in
another trade. But but that's something that I that persuades
me a little bit more to the side of this

(32:56):
being I think it was a good trade. I think
it made sense. The other thing is like if they
hadn't given up these picks, or they hadn't swung quite
as big and they'd gone and they got Luke Kennard,
or or like things resolved with Malik Beasley and they
end up with Malik Beasley, I think I think we
would be less excited about that, just because those are

(33:17):
role playing guys that maybe are on the floor at
the end of games and maybe aren't. And Orlando is
a good enough team with its core to be like,
we kind of need a guy that's like a non
negotiable closer in an Eastern Conference Finals game, right like that,
and Bane is that. So I do think like the
level of this trade was appropriate, like it needed to

(33:37):
be because they tried it with KCP it didn't work.
Going back to that, well, I think we would have
partly because of like they burned us last year because
we love the KCP move so much, Like we would
have not liked it as much because it's like not enough, right,
It's like a half measure almost, So they went this
was a full measure. They went for the guy that
cost a lot, that potentially helps a lot, even if

(34:01):
we conceive not quite enough shooting. So that's all to say.
I think it was probably worth it. I think it
was the right decision, and I can use that rationale
to get over the five first round assets.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah, I mean, like, look, we know we already know
what one of them was in number sixteen, and so
I mean like if they were not gonna take young handsome,
like so if he turns into a superstar, that's they
were never gonna take him anyway, the.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Like, So, what are the picks here with the highest upside?

Speaker 1 (34:31):
So I guess it's because the Phoenix pick is involved
in twenty twenty six, but you're basically ending up with
the second most favorable if Phoenix are like, yeah, maybe
that could be a high pick there, but the twenty
twenty eight probably not a ton of upside. I guess
once you get to two thousand and thirty, I just
think it was reasonable, but I wanted to pose the
question to you.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
I don't think it was an A plus move to
where it's like they robbed the Grizzlies.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
I really don't think that's what it was, But I
wanted to ask you, would you have rather had I'm
just mapping out a scenario what the Magic did, or
knowing you probably wouldn't have had to give up as
much first round equity and had Kobe White, Anthony Simon's
and Simoni Fontacchio or Duncan Robinson.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
I think those three players.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Maybe some leftover draft equity versus what the Magic did
this offseason.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
Well, which is to say Baine right, like you can
have Bane or you can have I say Bane. I
think just because those guys are all good role players
and they do like you would have, maybe we wouldn't
be saying they don't have enough three point shooting if
you added like three guys that would that are kind
of defined by the ability to stretch the floor. Then

(35:39):
can't you just imagine though, that we get to April
May and we're like, they can't play half these guys.
You know, it's it's not enough, Like they they just
don't have another fringe All star maybe actually is an
All Star player in a White line. Maybe, but White
does make it interesting. I'd still rather have Bane. I
think i'd rather Liane Bay.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
I just think if you were to pick that, I
was just trying to find an alternative path they could
have traveled, and if you prefer that one, I think
it needs to come down to Kobe White's going to
be cheaper than Desmond Bay, not just this season but
moving forward, and you're worried about the salary structure otherwise,
I think the high end talent play here though. And
the thing that none of those guys who I named

(36:22):
in the alternative scenario address, like Desmond Baying can give
you some defense. He's not going to torpedo and their defense.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
Yeah, that's that's implied with the idea that he's going
to be on the floor. Like the other thing. I
think we'll talk about this with the Knicks a little bit,
or this was something that I was thinking about with
the Bridges deal, like, yeah, you can agree if you're
a team at a certain level, like you know, if
you're a good team that's trying to get something above
good right to where like now we're going to talk
about Orlando's maybe they finished that. I mean third feels

(36:52):
are totally realistic in the East, and that was just
a question of can they be higher than that?

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Right, Yeah, Like the answer is yes, by the way,
if they're healthy, like they could be better than either
one of the Cows or the Knicks, of course.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
And so I think when you're at that level, you
almost have to accept that you're gonna have someone on
the roster that fills a desperate need that maybe costs
a little too much like that, Like and Bridges kind
of feels that way. Annobe for the Knicks not to
go Nicks on this, but like the Knicks are at
the level where it's like you just gotta you just
gotta get the guys because you're close. And I think

(37:23):
I think Bain falls into that a little bit for Orlando,
Like I don't know that he's a great dollar for
production value, but like it's just hard to get a
guy that's that good at this level where they're where
the Magic are and have it be a screaming deal,
Like you just have to get that sometimes.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
And I think with you the mcal Bridges trades a
perfect example. Actually think you're getting better value here, even
though Desmond Bain is more expensive because McKale Bridges did
not fix the Knicks's biggest need, which was that second
star slash primary secondary shock creator.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
That's not what he's supposed to do.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
The Magic got exactly the play of their priorities like
this was the biggest one. He addresses some of like
the ball handling, creation stuff and all of their shooting problems. Now,
if you ask him to go in the corner like
maybe and try to marginalize them that way, things get weird.
But what they also did, like the Knicks did. That's
why such an astute point by you. The Knicks in
part gave up so many draft picks because they weren't

(38:19):
sending out anyone of value. When you go back, it
was the Bowion Macdonovitch as the salary anchor in the
Magic's case. Not only were they not sending out anyone
that was mission critical, they weren't sending out anyone that
you could say was on a value deal. And in
case EP's case, there's probably a lot of people that
argue was a very bad deal. And so you are
that doesn't when we talk about this, I'm sure I'm

(38:39):
guilty of it at some points, like we don't factor
that ancillary stuff in as much or as much as
we should.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
So this is all to say we gave him an.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
F Yeah, B's all around, and why is it not
an A five first round assets? We think Bain helps
but maybe not enough, it would be the short answer.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
You didn't win the Palo Bankaro extension. It's fine, give it.
I think Alban Karro's fantastic. I would have given him
the same deal, but give him what he got A
play up. Yeah, So it was a like B is
above that, like Grant is be above average significantly.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
We're on to your Washington. Well they're our Washington Wizards.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah, there, everybody is yours mine. They took Trey Johnson
at number six. They traded the eighteenth pick, which was
Walter Clayton Junior, to the Jazz for number twenty one,
which is Will Riley, number forty three, which was Jamior Watkins,
a twenty thirty one second, which is the most favorable
of indianas or Miami's and Utah's twenty thirty two second.
They also traded Colby Jones to the Thunder for Dylan
Jones and Houston's twenty nine second round pick. Here's a

(39:36):
big one. Traded Jordan Pool, Sadik Bay and number forty,
which is Micah Peeve to the Pelicans and Chicago's twenty
twenty six second and Sack and the King's twenty twenty
nine second to Houston. This is all getting complicated. Long
story short, Washington winds up with Cam Whitmore, C J McCollum,
Kelly Olennox later shipped out, we'll talking about in the

(39:57):
second and really gave up Jordan Poole and City Bay
and some seconds changed hands. So traded then, Like I mentioned, Kelly,
Olynink to the Spurs for Blake Wesley waved Malachi Branham.
Do you find it so Malachi Branham and Blake Wesley.
I was at a Kings game against the Spurs with
my brother and I was like, I can't tell the
difference between those two guys because they're kind of the

(40:17):
same size, they kind of look alike, they kind of
do the same stuff, and it's just hilarious to me
that they got traded in the same deal. Anyway, h
the twenty twenty six second is gonna be the least
favorable from Dallas Philly or Oka. See in that deal,
Marvin Bagley back on one your minimum, Anthony Gill back
on one your minimum. Tristan Vukcevic got a two way
and they bought out Marcus Smart he back around five

(40:40):
point four million dollars. We leave the Wizards, Dan go ahead.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
I just want to make clear because I said we
weren't going to go into the two ways. I think
it's ridiculous that Tristan Vuksovich is still on a two way.
So that's why he was included there, because I just
feel like, do we really I know, he's an important
locker room presence, he's their dere at Templemanthony Gill, but
I think i'd rather have like be able to just
play vuk bitch as much as I want, especially like
your big rotation is sold like you're gonna be married

(41:04):
to Bagley after that. So I just I included. And
there's a passive aggressive shot as to why I'm about
to give the Wizards an F for their off season.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
What a misdirect by you. I know what grade you
gave them. I mean the big business here is the
pool trade, which I mean we should really just talk about,
like they're saving thirty four million dollars next year because CJ.
McCollums deal expires. Jordan Poole's got that much on the books.
So again cap space is overrated. I don't know if
it's overrated. If you could have like one hundred million

(41:34):
dollars worth of it, which the Wizards might like, we
might have to at some point, cap space is worth something.
And when it's nine figures of it, maybe we can
see that that's a valuable thing to have.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
We'll see. We'll see what they do with it. We'll
see if the number gets quite that high. They will
be major cap space players next summer. We like Trey
Johnson at number six. We think he fits. I say
wee because I just know we're kind of the same
eyd here. He's like the kind of scoring threat, shooting threat,
self sufficient offense threat that they don't really have in

(42:06):
any of their other young core pieces. So those are
the big pieces of business, and we very much liked them.
Haven't even talked about Cam whitmore you want to opine
on him or anything else I missed.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
That's the exact type of swing a team like the
Wizard should be making, and I think the biggest criticism
of them why. I mean, we have to ask what
were they trying to do, and it's continue their rebuild.
And I think what people could critique is they still
don't know that they have the guy. Their best options
at nabbing him or or having him already a Sar blah, Kulabali.

(42:40):
If you want to throw Trey Johnson into that mix,
I don't know. If I had to pick one of
them most likely to become the guy, I probably lean
Saar At this point. I would have answered Kulibali a
year ago, but like, what did you want them to?
This is not a team next summer when they have
a trillion dollars in cap space, we could have the
conversation about how aggressive do they need to be in
acquiring a best player, whether it's through the draft, like

(43:02):
how much pressures are under them there or via trade
or free agency. Like they cleared they made themselves more flexible,
They picked up some assets, and the Cam Whitmore deal
just typifies everything they should be doing. Is you gave
up two second round picks of like they're semi interesting,
Like I mean a Chicago pick was involved, So yeah,
like a twenty twenty six, like it might be in

(43:22):
the thirties.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
But Cam Whitmore is six'.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Seven he is not a, disaster a train wreck on
defense when he doesn't want to. Be so the fact
that you're putting the ball in his hands more giving
him more playing, time maybe he's more consistent on.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Defense but he can really.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
SCORE i think the shooting, percentage like from, three that
is something that is going to, climb whether it's incrementally or,
MATERIALLY i think it's going to. Climb he can give
you some rim, pressure get out and, transition just having
that type of a score in a six foot seven
inch body on a team, that by the, way just
has a bunch of those different types of bodies on

(43:57):
The Like i'm trying to FIGURE i have like a
Free Justin champagnee campaign going BECAUSE i don't know he's
really good AND i don't know how he's supposed to.
Play when you Have, Keishaw george and Blah, kolbali you
have like all these sort of wing type players. HERE i,
think did they do anything that was earth? Shattering, no
but that's also kind of the, point, Right and so

(44:17):
LIKE i really liked their. OFFSEASON i think that it
was opportunistic and my favorite part of, IT i really
do Like Trey. JOHNSON i think that was the right selection.
There but The Cam whitmore flyers just how do you
not take?

Speaker 2 (44:29):
That as The?

Speaker 3 (44:30):
Wizards, YEAH i mean it's a lot Like charlotte really
right where except EXCEPT i think if we're both gonna
our grades are gonna reflect. This The wizards, LIKE i
don't know if you call him bigger swings really because
like the Wit more deals not a. Swing it's not
a big. Swing it's like kind of a second draft
guy THAT i would say he along with Saw, kulabali

(44:52):
Throw carrington in, there maybe Even, Johnson like is it
likely that those guys become An All star at some?
Point probably, not but it's, possible and you just start
you're accumulating as many it's possible guys as you can
at this. Stage And whitmore definitely is that HE'S i
think he's at like twenty two points per thirty. SIX
i was looking him up the other, day like we

(45:13):
could work with, that especially on a bad team where
it's like you he's gonna get to explore the space
a little. BIT i hope, right because, like why is
he on the team if you're not gonna kind of
see what he can do over some extended. Minutes so,
again just sort of opportunistic asset accumulation. STUFF i do
think getting off of the last year Of pool's deal for,

(45:34):
McCollum who's probably a better player Than pool, anyway just
if you care about that, stuff this year probably a
better veteran influence all that stuff like that's a pretty
big win for a deal that's kind of, like, well
we don't want this guy's. Contract, well we don't want
this guy's. Contract wh shall we swap them like? That
that's a pretty good win coming out of that type of,
DEAL i. Think so if you want to, jump if

(45:54):
you have anything else to, add feel. Free, otherwise let's
let's reveal.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
HERE i went with in a minus for the way
as he went with A b. Plus justify it right?

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Now why was?

Speaker 3 (46:05):
It as they didn't get into the honest. SWEEPSTAKES i
was just really disappointed that they, KNOW i think.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
It Was dukevich two way, Right, YEAH i was on your.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
BEHALF i decided to ding them for for that.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
SLIGHT i think they're a team to monitor to where
when we're having this conversation next. Year i'm fascinated to
see the tenor of it BECAUSE i think there's going
to be a lot of pressure on them to improve
next season just based Off, okay it's cool that Ted
leonsis has let them go about their rebuilding thing for
a few. Years i'm not convinced that he's going to
allow that to last much. Longer but, also you don't

(46:40):
and maybe they'll prove us wrong with the trade deadline
by taking on a bunch of long term, Money but
you don't carve out eight billion dollars in cap space
without an intention of doing something semi.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
Seismic, YEAH i, think LIKE i can imagine us a
year from. Now the cap space does differentiate. Them but
if none of these young guys, pop we kind of
might talk about him like we talk about the where
it's like it's been a long. Time you guys don't
have the guy right like. That that's a, Risk BUT
i would Say washington distinguishes itself because they're clearly trying
to get the, Guy Like whitmore is a case of

(47:11):
you're trying to find the guy and you're looking everywhere for.
Him so kudos to. Them for that we are onto
a new.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Division hasn't that?

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Exciting grant The Boston celtics who entered cost chain sawing,
mode quite, frankly they are for.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Just well after to the.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
Top they are within like twelve point two million dollars
of ducking the, tax so everybody get just just super
excited about. That but their moves Drafted Hugo gonzalez at
number twenty, eight Sign Joe mizula to a multi year.
Extension they Traded Drew holliday For Anthonty, simons created a
four point seven million dollar traded player. Exception as a,
result they traded Christophs porzingis To atlanta in a three

(47:47):
team deal With brooklyn For George Niang cleveland's twenty thirty
one second and one point one million dollars in. Cash
they created a twenty two point seven million dollar traded
player exception in that as. Well they then Traded George
niang a twenty seven second the most favorable Of Boston
orlando and a two thousand and thirty one second round.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Swap To utah FOR. R. J Lewis.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Junior in, turn they created an eight point two million
dollar traded player. EXCEPTION uh they were the team that
traded no apenda so number thirty two To orlando for
number forty, six number fifty, seven a twenty twenty six
second and a twenty twenty seven second round. Swap this
is the big, One, grant are you sitting that you
are sitting? Down they Signed Chris, Brusche they did one
year minimum, deal and they they gave a two year

(48:30):
minimum Deal Toluca Luca garza that was fully. Guaranteed and
then they gave a two year minimum deal To josh
Might not that has a team option on the latter. Season,
now this is a very big and important. QUESTION i
think there are a lot of answers that could be
given to. It, grant what were The Boston celtics trying.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
To do just?

Speaker 3 (48:47):
Offseason just try to get back to the? Finals you
know after last year is? YEARS i, mean like, this
this is why IT'S i think we could we would
agree that everything they did made sense in the content
text of we got. It we can't spend half a
billion dollars on a team that won't Have Jason tatum
and is not not going to sniff a Finals like that's,

(49:09):
crazy especially getting into the repeater and and just like we.
Can't it doesn't make any. Sense ownership. CHANGE i suspect
new ownership was, Like i'm not paying this for this.
Team it's not gonna be any. Good so it sucks,
that like we have to sort of celebrates too, Strong
but we have to acknowledge that The celtics did well
in their goal of cutting money without and look Like

(49:31):
tatum's obviously still, There Jalen brown is still. There there
were nuclear options Where Jalen brown is gone And Derek
white is. Gone they THEY i think they they trimmed
as much as they could trim without like hitting the,
bone you, know because there were ways to go here
that would have been like full just nuke. It i'm
gonna mix like surgery and nuclear metaphors because you, know

(49:52):
it's been a while since we, podcasted AND i can't make,
sense BUT i you, know, YEAH i Guess i'd just
say it's hard to be excited about, it but you
have to give it to him like this was they
they were pretty smart about. It they picked up a
bunch of. Seconds they did fine on their. Minimums actually
they did better than that because they Got Chris, Bouchet
friend of the, Pod Chris, BOUCHET i don't be on the.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Pod, yeah can you unicorn?

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Pod, look they got, one they got rid of one
unicorn in Christophs porzingis and got a better one In Chris.
BOUCHET i don't know like. That how is that not
an a plus? Offseason and they're paying.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Them a fraction of of KP's.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Money we do.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Tend to over romanticize teardowns or cost cutting. Maneuvers that's
not what we're doing, Here like we're acknowledging the. Reality
and they were able to cut a whole bunch of,
money like like nine figures worth when you're factoring in
what they would have paid a taxes without giving up
a singular long term MASSET christps was an expiring. CONTRACT

(50:48):
i think a lot of people were shocked they didn't
have to include.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
A pick to give Up Drew.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Holliday so given the reality of their, situation, now could
you also make the case that if they were going this,
route Should Derek white have been someone they more aggressively
shopped or are you gonna follow through and get all
the way out of the tax to try and save
like that year on a repeater? Clock but then what
does that mean for next, season is the mandate gonna be,
well then you have to stay out of the tax,

(51:12):
too because if you have to be out of the
tax each of the next two, seasons if that's ownership's,
mandate then you probably should have Traded Derek white this
offseason because it kind of feels like you're headed towards
training him next offseason when he will have less. Value
there's still time for them to go about these. Things
but given what their aim, was which is to position
themselves to get completely out of the luxury, tax and

(51:35):
we're looking at it just from this season's, perspective they
are within striking disc like it is doable for them
to shave the next twelve plus million. Dollars i'm assuming
it's gonna happen via An Anthony simon's.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Trade if it, Doesn't i'll actually be like pretty. Shocked, right.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Does the argument that this wasn't far, Enough because by
the Time Jas tatum is back to Being Jason, tatum
we're not talking about we might be talking about like
twenty twenty. Eight you, know just given the he's gone
for a, year it's gonna take a year for him
to be all the way back to what he was
and by then maybe is at an age where that
he just can't be that did? It? Ever were you

(52:17):
ever tempted to kind of endorse the idea of like you,
got it's got to be everybody Except tatum and you
just you start absolutely fresh in you, know twenty what
y're we even talking like twenty, eight twenty nine or
twenty seven to twenty.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
EIGHT i really, think to, me you're just kind of
having a should they have Traded joe And brown?

Speaker 2 (52:36):
DISCUSSION i guess that's, right, yeah, yeah and the end.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Because they already Traded holiday important and so to, me
the answers because like WHAT i think the argument would
be if you wanted them to go further within reason
without blowing it, Up but the move would have been
to have Traded Derek white now when his value is so.
High SO i BUT i can't like what is the argument?
Aside because If, tatum we saw How Kevin durant came
back from An achilles', Injury so even if you Give

(52:59):
tatum a year grace, PERIOD i JUST i don't know
like him and him And Jalen brown will still be
firmly in their primes, Then AND i think While Jalen
BROWN'S i, mean he did win FINALS, mvp but you're
not looking at. Hims somebody could be the best player
on a title, Contender like is the inner play between
a ONE b and like a ONE a situation Of
Jason tatum is some is less of a player than
he was upon.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
RETURN i would not have Traded Jalen.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Brown and ALSO i Think Jalen brown's value is gonna
be firmly, intact if not, higher because there'll be less
time on his deal next. Offseason if you want to
revisit that, SCENARIO i View Derek white as the more
urgent topic just because he's older and it feels like
the stock of non stars is going to be more.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Turbulent, okay, YEAH i don't know WHERE i lan there's
some to answer my own. Question there's some part of
me and maybe it's just like the pessimist in me
that wants to say This celtics, core WHICH i would
Include brown, in like it's done as a as a,
Contender like even If tatum is back and Is tatum
just because Like brown will be so expensive by them

(54:01):
that your flexibility is, limited it would have made sense
to like just try to find the Next Jalen brown
who's not on his whatever it, is THIRD nba. Contract
that's just like exorbitantly expensive to be your number two
guy After. Tatum but it's just that's so much easier
said than. Done and it's not like it's not like
you can't Trade brown for value like ever, Again so

(54:22):
so devil's assume at, least, yeah well you never, know but, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Does it does your this gets into regrade, Territory but
what would impact your like what would they do that
could impact your trade your grade the most or maybe even,
well let's get to our grades. FIRST i think would
we both give them A b? MINUS i am A
be minus your game A c. PLUS i think it's
just it was an above average offseason relative to what
they were trying to. Do but it also feels a

(54:47):
little incomplete to me Because i'm wondering, if, like they're
definitely getting out of the, tax, right because if they, don't,
like let's say they don't get out of the, tax
wouldn't you grade this more harshly on a regrade because
it's within what was the point of just tearing everything
down aside from saving the luxury Savings.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
At that, point, Right, yeah NO i, Would AND i
think like, NO i, yeah there's, no there's no two
ways about. IT i WONDER i wonder if like it
feels incomplete because not because The celtics like didn't have
a will to keep doing stuff that just ran out of.
Ways like it's just, like, yeah it's nice to want
to trade you, know more money for, less but it's

(55:25):
like at some point it's. Not there's not like an
infinite amount of resources or trade partners out, there so
like to your, point it may just be something they finish. Later.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Uh and my final question on, it if you're The,
celtics what would you prefer so you could Trade Anthony
simons and get out of the tax this year and
get a player back who has money left on his
deal beyond this season and can actively help, you or
you're trading Anforty simons for a cheaper player on an
expiring contract who that makes it easier for you to
balance your books after this.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
YEAR i think it's the, Latter, Okay it's just LIKE
i just one because you got to finish the, job
which is saving. Money just it isn't just saving. Money
IT'S i think for a team Like boston THAT i
think will be ambitious. Again it's like you're saving, money but,
you're like you, said you're you're trying to get as
much flexibility and spending power and optionality as you can

(56:18):
for when you want to exercise. It like that that
with an interesting being good.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Again we are onto The Brooklyn Nets grant and they are.
Young they drafted point guards were. Done oh and they
gave No so this is gonna be fascinating to talk.
About they had five first.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Rounders they Drafted Igor gemmen at number, Eight Nolan treori at,
Nineteen Ben sarah at twenty, Six Danny wolf at twenty.
Seven what was the fifth? ONE i can't. Remember we'll
get down to. It moved him the OTHER i. Guess
the biggest, transaction if you want to call, it, that
Traded Cam johnson To Denver Michael Porter junior in a

(56:55):
twenty thirty two first round. PACKER i don't know WHY
i said if you want.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
To call it, that if you want, to, Yeah like
what trades are?

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Transactions? Right is that those are? Synonyms they traded one
point one million in cash To boston in that three
team trade With atlanta For Terrence mann and number twenty.
Two they traded a twenty twenty six second with the
fake second with the top fifty five protection to the
heat For hayward High smith and a twenty thirty two
second Got Kobe buffkin for one hundred and ten. Grand
Basically Cam. Thomas this was a staring. Contest over signed

(57:25):
his six million dollar qualifying. Offer he will have veto
rights on a. Trade his bird rights will not go
with him if he is. Traded he will be an
unrestricted free agent in twenty twenty. Six Darren sharp back
on a two, year twelve and a half million dollars,
deal team option on the second, Year Zire williams two,
years twelve and a half million team option on the second.
Year brooklyn's goal this offseason was too. Well this is

(57:50):
an interesting point of, Discussion so two ways to evaluate
specifically the way they went about the, Draft, dan do
you think the focus on all handlers is, like not a,
copycat but an acknowledgment, that, hey The pacers had a
bunch of guys that could pass and had good court.
Sense that works, Well so we'll just draft guys that

(58:12):
have that and maybe play them at different positions and
teach them to shoot or. Whatever and we're just, like
that's that's the new market. Inefficiency guys with court sense
who can pass and handle the. Ball we just want
them at shooting guard and small forward and. Whatever we
want point guard instincts. Everywhere is it that or is
it we're not really sure any of these guys is
gonna be good enough to start a point guard for.

(58:33):
Us so let's get seventeen of them and one of
them will pan? Out which which do you think it?

Speaker 2 (58:38):
WAS i think it was the.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
LATTER i just don't know how you because you can't
like they're you can't look at rookies and that's it'd
be different if you already had like two of those
guys on the roster and they've proven to be. This
BUT i don't think you can take these unfinished products
who have to even played AN nba game yet and say, like,
yeah we're, like now this is what we're building, Year because,

(59:00):
NO i think this was a volume. Game it's a shotgun.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Approach it's LIKE i need to be. Accurate the spread's
gonna be wide, enough you're gonna hit something Like that's
kind of the thinking for.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Me do you support approaching it that?

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Way Because i've gone back and forth in the sense
of you should have consolidated, somewhere but then in the draft,
specifically what did you want them to?

Speaker 2 (59:20):
DO i just like they didn't.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Have would you've given up the number eight pick in
That New Orleans pelican?

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Trade like probably, not.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Because you needed like an infusion of a high prospect right.
Now it was a little too, Low like it was
too high in the lottery for you to go that,
route and then all the other picks were a little
too low for you to get like that offer from.
Them SO i don't know what the road not traveled looks,
like BUT i will say that their draft approach was
probably my least favorite part of their.

Speaker 3 (59:47):
Offseason it feels out of step enough with what you
would normally see a team with this like suite of
draft picks do. That it's, LIKE i don't, Know, fellas
it feels, like couldn't they Have like my fears went, seventh,
like wasn't there a way to package some of this
together and get? Him like or just if you if
you're if your whole thing is we gotta get a point?

(01:00:08):
Guard feels like that would have been.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
POSSIBLE i don't disagree with, you BUT i actually Like
Yegor demon better than you're.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Saying fears is the. Guy i'm just, saying, like go
Get Ace bailey.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Somehow so, YEAH.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
I don't, know like it just with this many, picks
you just like a trade. Up i'm sure one of
us are. Both like if you're making draft, predictions is
like The nets will consolidate and move.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Up like what they should have done is tried to
get In derek queen territory like post, eight like trade
it up for number ten and Drafted Derek queen and
then held The pelicans.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Hostage that's what?

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
That how good would we feel about The nets the
whole deal if they had that twenty twenty six unprotected
first coming next year.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
And then like two fewer prospects on the, roster, Right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Yeah the the logjam wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
THERE i appreciate the stabs in the dark.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Here and this is not saying like no One Trey
alris really freaking, fast And Ben sarah looked like he
moved well off the, ball And Jager demon played more
off the ball In Summer league THAN i was. EXPECTING
i don't know what out of the theory Behind Danny.
WOLF i just don't. Understand i'm not gonna. LIE i
know next to nothing About Drake. Powell we didn't see
him In Summer. League but you Get Kobe. Buffkin Cam
thomas is coming. Back we'll have to talk about how

(01:01:15):
that panned. Out there's just a lot of guys on,
it And i'm Assuming Michael Porter junior will have the
ball in his hands. More are they gonna send him
home to be like a full time podcaster at some
point to just really juice their lottery?

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
ODDS i don't LIKE i worry about.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
That Jordy fernandez has proven to be a good, Coach
but it's how do you explore the full depths of
all these options here when there are now so many of?
Them and it's it's uneasy in a good way, because
like the asset place, here like The atlanta, thing if
you can Get Kobe buffkin for one hundred and ten thousand,
dollars a point guard who in theory might defend put
pressure on the ribbon shoot, yeah hell, yeah go after?

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
That what did you make? It The Cam thomas, Situation
how they went about.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
THAT i think they played it. RIGHT i THINK i
would have been much more negative about their offseason if
they had guaranteed him like starter, Money LIKE i, mean
let's not forget. THAT i FORGET i think it Was
Lucas kaplan And Net's daily like months ago had a
quote From thomas or via a source close To thomas

(01:02:16):
that he's, Like i'm looking for thirty to forty million a,
Year like that's that's you, know that was never gonna
happen me, Too but, yeah we. All BUT i think
it would have just been a huge mistake to pay
him as if he's gonna be a long term starter
on any version of this. TEAM i just don't think
he's the type of player that is worth that kind

(01:02:36):
of money with what we know about just the value
of things besides points in THE. Nba SO i, mean
you are basically gonna just lose him for. Nothing BUT
i think it would have been worse to commit resources
to him and treat him like he was gonna be
a key piece going, forward because what this does do
is kind of like empower them to make his role

(01:02:58):
whatever they want it to be and and keep him
sort of out of the way of some of the
younger players that they want to. Develop because if you
Play Cam, thomas like the offense is running through, him
and so then what the hell was the point of
all these other ball Handlers you're trying to sort of
like see if they can be. Something SO i think
they handled it. Right what do you what do you?
THINK i don't know if we've talked about.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
THIS i think that they could have afforded to have
gone like a one year balloon, payment especially when you
look at what they're gonna, have like they'll either they'll
off cap, Space but whe are they at relative to
the salary floor right?

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
NOW i think they might be over. IT i think
they hit.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
It they hit. It but so what would be would
be the point of the balloon? Payment like what do you?

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Want it makes it easier to trade because he's not
gonna have vital rights on, It like can you get
in exchange for giving him more? Money could you've gotten
him to waive his implicit no trade clause if it
was a one year guaranteed, SITUATION.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
I wonder what what are you getting for? HIM i.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Think it was more so the like as a salary
anchor and an expiring contract out going in a deal
that will allow you to bring back as a team
trying to get rid of sal Look, okay we saw
The wizards.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
This, yeah last year with The, bucks so got.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
IT i just, LIKE i think they could have gone that,
route And i'm a little surprised they. Didn't but maybe
we don't know what Cam thomas's appetite. Was like if
they would have come back with two years and forty let's,
say only one guaranteed, year you have to waive your,
like no your veto, rights would he have done? It
we don't, know but it doesn't even seem like they
went that, route WHICH i think is, fine but it
paves the way, for like you kind of alluded to,

(01:04:24):
this for things to get, messy because if he's, playing
the offense is going to run through, him and so
what's the trickle down effect on all of your other
youngsters if you're not playing? Him, well then why not
just have renounced his? Rights like what was the point?
Then because he now has effectively a no trade, clause
his value to other teams is less than it was
because they don't get his bird. Rights so unless you

(01:04:46):
have are gonna use an exception or have cap, space
his offer for you tops out at seven point two
million next. Season NOW i think he's maybe he falls
in non tax PAYER miid level exception. Range so that
would open up the scope of teams that could trade for.
Him but you kind of you made things maybe a
little bit more awkward than they needed to. Be this
is all to. SAY i don't think it was detrimental

(01:05:07):
one way or the, other BUT i. WAS i think
there could have been value in them saying, like, hey
here's twenty million dollars next. Season that's all we're going
to guarantee. You and that might have been either a
team actually wants him or view me Someone hey he could,
play but we can also get rid of him after this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Season.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
YEAH i think endorsing their handling of The thomas situation
IS i think it requires you to believe that there
just isn't a market for. Him AND i think, TOO
i think you're right. There there would have. It you
maybe had some more avenues available to you if you
if you pay him more and you get him to
waive the note. Trade BECAUSE i don't know who knows what,

(01:05:44):
happens but to, ME i think there's also value in
WHAT i think this feels like to me is THE
nets saying we are a smart enough organization to know
that this is not a player that we, need that
we want to prioritize or view as important to like
the type of team we want to, Be and, like

(01:06:04):
maybe that costs you some optionality in a trade because
you didn't balloon payment or you didn't do some other,
Structure but, LIKE i guess What i'm saying, is it
makes me believe The nets know what they're, doing because
they just decided that this guy that a lot of people, think, like,
well look at all the points he's are you, Crazy
like he's The i'm sure you could statthead Cam thomas

(01:06:27):
somehow and cherry pick something that shows him to be
one of the five greatest young scorers of all. Time
and The nets are, like we actually are smart enough
to know that that's he's just not someone we can
view as a key.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
PIECE i think the only way you can hammer them for,
it even THOUGH i have, questions is that you believe
there would have been a, chance had they offered a
two year deal that he would have signed with a,
team even with a team. Option That, oh then the,
upside he has a breakout, year we pick up his team,
option we either have a player under team control for another,
year or he becomes a trade. Asset but signals everywhere

(01:07:00):
around the league are screaming that the exact type of
player That Cam thomas is is the exact type of
player that teams are.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Devout they're looking through the.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Points sometimes even the Like Jalen green feels like a
remnant of the pass when you look at his extension
that was signed last, summer because it's is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Anyone ever that in part of it it was trade?

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Motivated but, like is anyone look at what has happened
With Quentin grinds his restriction free agency With Ben.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
Matheren what Like Ben matheren's very much in this this
player type and that he could do a little, more
you know WHAT i? Mean, LIKE i THINK i think you're.
RIGHT i think this feels like a. Signal uh and
it just like you better be more than an empty.
SCORER i think if you want to get that big
second contract.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
And you somehow and this maybe isn't, fair but you
have to be better than the second best passer on
your team among the guys who don't really.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Pass whatever is justification? Was that was one of my
favorite just. Rebuts if you look at everyone who passes
and remove. THEM i was the second best.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Passer he's a Good this is all to, say did
we miss. Anything we didn't talk about what grades they're
going up on the.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Screen we both gave them.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
BEES i think they're two best transactions to. Me we're
Getting denver's twenty thirty two unprotected first round, pick AND
i know we over romanticize those mystery box. Selections it's
not just, About, oh where the nugget's gonna. Be, then
it's certainly about, that but The nuts probably aren't gonna
be the team that's making this pick my. Family that's

(01:08:30):
a really big trade asset for them down the. Line
Michael Porter junior as a basketball, player like someone who
comes in can shoot and now you get to explore
like his on ball. Stuff if he stays healthy and
maybe proves that he can create a little, more that's
someone other teams are probably interested in trading. For like
this could be another quintessential example of we got something
for him on the way, in and we're gonna get
something for him on the way. Out The Haywood highsmith.

(01:08:52):
Deal we already talked about. It with the, Heat maybe
we find out the injuries worse and they can't flip
him for another second round pick.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Value my guess is is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
That they're gonna end up getting at least another second
round pick in exchange for Heywar. Heismith so those are
MY i think those were the two sort of like
smartest forward thinking. Transactions you get these distant draft picks
that will have, value maybe not to you as a
team that's using, them but in future trades that you're
going to. Make we're on to Your New York, knicks

(01:09:19):
but they're actually. Mine SO i will go through the
list of transactions here on nothing like what their transactions
were last.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Season, grant do you remember that that? Was they had two?

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
Pages that Was, yeah that was that was two. Slides
they Fired Tom. Thibodeau they then Hired Mike, brown who
was one of the coaches who we have details on
his deal four, years forty million dollars as the. Estimation
they Signed Mikal bridges to a four, year apparently very,
controversial one hundred and fifty million dollar. Extension he notably
will be trade eligible at the start Of, february just

(01:09:47):
in time for The february fifth trade. Deadline they Signed
Gershan yabuceli away from The philadelphia seventy six. Ers for
two years and eleven point three million most of the
mini mL. E he has a player option for twenty
six twenty. Seven they they Signed Jordan clarkson to a
one year minimum. Deal which did you see that it
Was Jordan clarkson who requested that The knicks sign? Him
is as agent Asked hi where he wanted to, go

(01:10:08):
and he said The, knicks and so they, called and
so that at least shows players want to go to The.
Knicks they traded number fifty to The clippers for number fifty,
one who Became Mohammed, diawara and the number sixty, pick
and they.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Picked Up ariel Huck porty's two million dollar team.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Option we haven't gone through a lot of the team option,
stuff But ariel Huk porty might play if they're going
to start duel bigs With robinson And. TOWNS i do
have a note. Here the thing That i'm having trouble
squaring away with their grade is relative to their resources
and what are they trying to do contend for a
title and deepen their. ROTATION i just have nothing's happened,
yet but it seems like we're headed towards that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
Road they have gart they have a shit ton.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Of players on training camp deals right, now Including Malcolm,
Brogden Garrison, Matthews Landry shammitt as the most noteworthy. Ones
the reporting suggests as we record, this they have room
enough to sign one veteran minim and then a rookie.
Minimum the reporting suggest they are going to trade somebody
in hopes of opening up another veteran minimum, slot which with,

(01:11:08):
them the theory is gonna go to Both shaman And Malcolm.
Brogden i'm going to say right off the cuff That
i'm struggling to separate this logic from my grade right
now BECAUSE i really think that it doesn't make a
lot of. Sense and you can sit here and tell
me that the collateral damage will Be Tyler kollik Or Pocom.
Dottie i've Seen duce McBride floated out.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
THERE i was gonna ask, you if It's duce, McBride
you're not, happy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
That's an f like that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
Is maybe What i'm getting at, is, though if you're
trading duced, McBride or even if you're giving up on
the idea of, youth who's cost, controlled it shouldn't be
for end of rotation. Guys, who by all, appearances couldn't
get a guaranteed minimum contract from somebody else who let's
throw that out the. Window you're not gonna have their bird.
Rights they might just leave if they have a good

(01:11:54):
season for. You so that feels too short term for this.
Thing if you're gonna Trade Pocomb, dottie this is the
Deal i've been. FLOATING i don't know if The wizards
would do. This give them back their first round, pick
which is really the equivalent of giving them back their
next two second round, picks And Pocomb dottier For Justin. Champenney,
like that's the. Move that's a cost controlled. Guy The
knicks need. Wings that's the other thing is it shouldn't

(01:12:16):
reduced me. BRIDE i also don't think it should be
Pocom dottier because at least he's a. WING i know
Dia ware is probably gonna get the rookie minimum from.
THEM i, again they've not done anything, yet SO i
can't include it in my. Grade But i've put a
pin in, that And i'm quite frankly terrified about what
might happen BECAUSE i JUST i DON'T i don't understand
the logic.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
NECESSARILY i get.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
IT i, think, yeah it's but, ultimately would it move
your grade more than like, half you, know from a
from a straight letter grade to a minus or plus or,
Whatever LIKE i, think, well if it's, McBride that seems
like a pretty big, mismai it can't.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Be like if it's Big, bride it's BECAUSE i think
that they're then getting, players like there's actual it's not
just dumping. Salary and SO i understand that a shaman
or a broad and is going to help you, more
they believe than a kullak or A. Dottie it's just,
okay now you're punting on, youth you're punting on team
control for how? Much Like i'm gonna ask the question, then, so,
like is the goal that they want to? Play their

(01:13:15):
rotation has nine guys in it right, now and so
are you saying that you value going ten and eleven
deep that? MUCH i, mean that's some pacer. Shit but
the other thing THAT i don't know if it's talked
about enough With Mike, brown he's not like someone who
embraces depth like way more Than Tom The king's rotation
was very top heavy while he was there last.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
Year part of that was roster.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
Construction but generally, speaking he's relied very heavily on like
three or four, guys so he might distribute the minutes
a little more evenly Than Tom.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
Tibodau BUT i.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
Don't i've never looked at The kings and be, like,
Yeah Mike brown's running like a fifteen man.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
Rotation you need this many.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
Bodies, YEAH i think just because of how it will
feel like, relatively it's gonna feel Like brown is going
to the bench like, crazy just because by default he
will do it more Than tibbs. DID i THINK i
take your. POINT i JUST i would say too, though
that like having depth after you, know a couple years

(01:14:13):
of relying so heavily on so few, guys is really
just insurance as much as. Anything like whether he whether
with a healthy rotation he's going ten or eleven, deep
that's one. Thing but like if and When Jalen brunson
has an ankle, thing or like or you, know some
bridges is never gonna miss time knock on, Wood but
like you're just at least a little. INSULATED i think

(01:14:34):
that in that sense because all this wear and tear
over these rough couple of years with fairly deep playoff
runs like somebody's breaking down or several somebodies probably.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
It sounds like this was a long preamble to be
giving them a bad GRADE i didn't actually. GET i
gave them a really good grade me, too the things
that actually stood out about their all season that happened
going From Tom thibbodau To Mike. BROWN i DON'T i
assume the offense is going to be more, inventive but
that's a very tough one to WHERE i don't look
at it, as, oh like they're way better Because Mike
brown is gonna be. THERE i think that he is

(01:15:03):
a better fit for the offensive, personnel just BECAUSE i
think you probably could have picked someone off the street
and said, that or at least that person would have
tried more shit Than Tom tippeau. DID i was very
interested by the reaction to the mckel bridges, extension AND
i Think john hollingerch specifically of the athletic. Hating it
really made me sit there and, go what AM i missing?

(01:15:24):
Here because that's someone who like whose OPINION i respect
the hell out, of AND i just keep coming back
to this is someone who next year he would have
cost more than one hundred and fifty like he would
have had to suffer a catastrophic injury to have not
gotten this much guaranteed money on the open market next.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
Year that's that's the argument That i've anchored to throughout
it BECAUSE i, think and the number that is forever
in my head is one hundred and fifty six, million
because that's the most he could have signed for this.
Offseason and what and So nick's taking. Discounts what's going, On,
pablo get on, it like the six, minute but six?

(01:16:02):
Million where's that six million dollars? Going how's he making that?
Back but but, no like we've been talking about this
for a while where it's, Like, okay, SURE i guess,
HONESTLY i can't SAY i thought, this BUT i could
entertain the argument, that, like that's a lot of money
For Michale bridges the one one hundred and fifty ish
over four, Years but it never seemed like a lot

(01:16:22):
of money because of what might have been available to
him had he gone to free agency in a, Year,
RIGHT i forget that you said it too something to
twenty something like The Darren fox level, DEAL i, think
or something like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
That so another team could have given him four years
and two hundred and thirteen million dollars in free agency next.
Year i'm not saying they would have.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
No but that was. There, yeah it was hanging, there like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
Don't you think there would have been like let's even
say like a four, year one hundred and seventy five
million dollars a year on the table for him then.

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):
Right and but then oh so All devil's advocate again
like maybe that maybe that shouldn't be the. Argument the
measure of what a player should be paid can't be
what you think someone else might be willing to pay,
him except like that is how it, works like it
just you always say it only takes one like some
and with this player type super durable three and d

(01:17:12):
he just like this wing. TYPE i do think the the,
value the universal value of wings that can play both
ends of the floor is not SOMETHING i think that
is changing in the apron era or, Whatever like a
lot of things are. DIFFERENT i do Think bridges would
have been a very good fit on you name the
winning team that wants another, starter, right like SO i

(01:17:36):
THINK I Hall. ANDREW i read the same thing today
just before we came, on and, like, YES i really
respect his, opinion and maybe the case THAT i think
he was making is like When bridges is this player
type doesn't age, well he's not going to be able
to guard for us because he's so. Thin as he
slows down when he's thirty, three he's going to be
making a crazy. NUMBER i just Think i'll circle all

(01:17:58):
the way back to The bain, thing like when you're
as good as The knicks, are sometimes this is the
cost of doing. Business and ALSO i still think this
is like just a good deal BECAUSE i think he
was gonna get more if you, waited so and like
if you view it as a trade value, prospect LIKE
i don't think you're gonna be hard pressed to trade
Mckel bridges for positive value on this. CONTRACT I i

(01:18:19):
just don't right for, Now maybe in two years that's.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
Different it tops out.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
At twenty one point seven percent of the salary cap and,
here So i'm gonna boil it down even further as
of right, now and so in all likely that this
will change and it'll be.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
Lower he's going to.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Be the fifty first highest paid player in THE nba
in twenty twenty six twenty. Seven is your argument that
he's that far away from a top fifty player in the.
League if this deal is. Bad that's where that's the
thing THAT i keep coming. Back Maybe i'm oversimplifying, it
but he's probably gonna be like the fifty fifth highest
paid player when this deal kicks.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
In that's.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
Fine plus the, durability plus the plug and, play you,
know plus the demonstrated ability to contribute to a winning
team in the. Playoffs like all that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
Shit to continue The devil's advocate of it, though AND
i know that anyone who listens to this podcast religiously.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
Understands this is HOW i think.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
Sometimes but couldn't you look at it reasonably and say
he's never had the major, injury so he's.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
Due, well the Iron man's only the Iron man until he's.
Not that's that's, True Like DeAndre jordan had it for a,
While Clay thompson had it for a. While it, happens
but so, Far LIKE i, mean if you're in arbitration or,
Whatever like the first thing you're arguing from his side
is like he never gets. Hurt you might pay this
much for a guy that's gonna play fifty, Games like that's.

(01:19:35):
Insane he's gonna play eighty, Two like even if his
day to day production isn't that, high like there aren't
many players you can just count, on and then the
counter would be, like well he's gonna break. Down it's
like all, RIGHT i mean, like what's your evidence for.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
That let's so let's we a frame it this.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
Way Kawhi leonard got paid basically a third of this
under the table by aspiration or that's NOT i, mean
like you get Me Cal bridges for like three x
that that's not, bad.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
Right most he's getting six under the. Table SO i,
just you, know pretty.

Speaker 2 (01:20:04):
Good so what what did you end up giving? THEM
i went with A.

Speaker 3 (01:20:08):
B i gotta be, PLUS i think given their. RESOURCES
i mean even talk About, yabusele WHO i think is
gonna be pretty good fit regardless of what big you're
playing him next. To they did what they, could like
even it's even a feather in their cap that like
someone Like Malcolm brogden And Landry shammon are, like, yeah
you might make, it but you might not like. That that's,

(01:20:29):
well that's a good curved By Ben. Simmons oh you
know what basketball got curved By Ben. Simmons not interested?

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
Anymore, Uh LIKE i, said Maybe i'm having, Trouble Like
i'm projecting forward on something that they're gonna Do i'm
not gonna. Like but the other thing THAT i this
is not a. CONCERN i think The yabuseli deal was totally.
FINE i don't know if you Want karl He towns
to play the five and then you're starting him With Mitchell,
robinson like the Yabucell Karl Anthony towns front court is

(01:20:56):
not going to be good, Defensively like.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
That's just not the.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
Space the spacing will be, Incredible But i'm just. Wondering
it's it's just sort of WHAT i don't Think Mitchell
robinson should start for The, knicks which is What i'm getting.
AT i understand the appeal of, it BUT i think
that there's, More LIKE i like the idea Of yabuselli
And Mitchell robinson getting minutes and what you can still,
do BUT i don't know. THAT i think What i've
seen a lot of people talk about is, well is
Yab bucelli's three point shooting gonna?

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
Hold he was shooting.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
Really well in Real madrid like a half decade before
coming back to THE. Nba i'm more worried about what
does he look like defensively in some of the lineups
that they're gonna throw. Out, still, really they got him
to take less, two which gave them the flexibility to
get the one veteran, Minimum so a really good deal by.
THEM i think they had a really good offseason relative
to the hang. Ups for, me aside from what hasn't happened,

(01:21:43):
yet it's just there's really no way of knowing whether
it was the right move to go From tibbs to
my or how much of an upgrade was. It really
you're taking a risk like your best, player loved him
and you just made The Eastern conference, finals and we
can all point to what The knicks did. Wrong we
also know That Mike brown wasn't their first. Choice let's
just you have to weigh all of this.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
TOGETHER i think they had a really good offseason, Though,
yeah who's up, next? Sir?

Speaker 3 (01:22:08):
Oh The sixers nothing to talk. About so the big
thing of maybe we should lead with what has not.
Happened Quentin grimes is still a restricted free. Agent we
also like the quietest of all of The big, four
just because we don't know what the what the offers
going back and forth have been to the degree of
certainty that we do for so many of these other.

(01:22:28):
Guys as we record this hasn't signed the qualifying. Offer
don't really know what, like don't know what's going to happen,
there so file that. Away we'll come back to. It
what is done is they DRAFTED Vj edgecomb at number.
Three Andre drummond picked up his player option is. Back Kelly,
ubra same, thing eight point four million dollar player. Option he's.
Back they Declined Justin edwards team, option then brought him

(01:22:51):
back on a three, year seven point one million dollar.
Deal that's a minimum. Deal twenty seven twenty eight is
a team. Option Trenton watford got a two year minimum.
Deal Eric gordon And Kyle lowry both back on one year.
MINIMUMS i. Guess the other things to note Are Paul
george had knee surgery after getting. Injured this is just
it's not trans it may factor into our like like a.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
Grade.

Speaker 3 (01:23:16):
Uh and Then Joel, embiid as you'll, recall also had
surgery In april on his. Knee BUT i guess some
of the clips that have surfaced he looks pretty good
according to some. People so, YEAH i Don't i'm not
sure where to go, here The sixers goal maybe we
should try to lay that out is clearly they're built
Around joel Embiid and And Paul george And Tyrese maxey

(01:23:36):
and they're trying to. Win like they that, is that
is the goal right. Now they didn't seem TO i
GUESS i don't know how you would have given their health,
statuses but like didn't shop their big expensive. Veterans they're
trying to, win and bringing Back Gordon lowry on MINIMUMS
i think further emphasizes. That so it's a weird situation
because they have some, youth but that it's like it's

(01:23:59):
not like they're building AROUND. Vj edgecomb's. Timeline, so, uh
they're just a hard team to. EVALUATE i you, KNOW i.
DON'T i don't because so little of what we're gonna
think and talk and wonder about what them has to
do with Like kelly Youu bray And Andre drummond and
that kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
THING i think because The Quenton, grimes aside from DRAFTING. Vj,
EDGECOMBE i think was the right. Choice but like you
can't the draft pick can't necessarily define you're especially at
number three when there wasn't like as big of a
question as to what WAS i guess this year there were,
some But Konk nipple wasn't in like the top three
discussion As, BAILEY i guess was in. There But Quentin
grimes is going to be like the premier move of

(01:24:36):
their offseason unless it preempts other trades from. Them AND
i THINK i looked at it AND i like the
trend And waffer minimum deal is. GREAT i liked it
Justin edwards deal for, THEM i think like that was
like a three AND d wing who flew under the
radar a lot last. YEAR i guess what you could
point out as a like a bug rather than a
feature by waiting on The Quenton grimes, thing you don't

(01:24:57):
have clarity on your tax situation and so could you
have brought Back Gershan yabucelli using the same tool that
The knicks, Did, like did you have enough room to
have gone about? THAT i don't know That Gershon yabucelli
is a big enough cog and they're machine for me
to sit here and.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Say i'm comfortable giving them A.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
D SO i THINK i actually like a lot of
the moves that they. Want a lot of the MOVES
i Like edgecomb and as already, SAID i like The
watford And Justin edwards. DEALS i think you could go,
LIKE i don't know Why Eric gordon And kyle I
re need to be, here but like we're dealing with
minimums on those. MARGINS i went with an incomplete BECAUSE

(01:25:36):
i Don't the only way THAT i think you could
hammer them right now is to, say, like, oh they
should have like torn it, down AND i Would my
response to that would, be how who was trading For
Joel embiid right? Now did you want them to give
up the number three pick to get Off Paul george's?
Salary SO i don't know what, Else like what is
the road not taken for? Them what even if they

(01:25:59):
had hammered out The Quentin grimes deal?

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
Already So i'm.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
Very, Curious like their off season crazy for me is
gonna be rooted a lot and like what they end
up keeping him. For SO i can see this very
much being like A b plus off season from the
relative to the resources they are.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
Available but it is tough to, divorce like their.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
Off season from what happened last, summer and it's now
casting a pal over their entire.

Speaker 3 (01:26:20):
Organization Right it's like it's very much. AFFECTING i went
with A, c and it's it really is basically like an.
Incomplete it's kind of a punt just just because LIKE
i don't, know we'll call it average until they do
something With grimes and actually.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
Told me that you PUT c for. Complete you saw my,
complete you, said, SEE.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
I don't care what happens With Quentin. Grimes this is
average across the.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
Board it's not fair that you got such a quick
team there that you got to read through and Now
i'm gonna go through quick. Too oh, yeah The Toronto,
raptors we're fine. Here we we love what Some Toronto
raptors around these. Parts uh so The Toronto raptors quote
unquote parted ways With messi Eu.

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
Jerry do you think that that matters at?

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
All they Drafted Calmary boils at number, nine Drafted Elijah
martin at number thirty. Nine they Made Bobby webster the
lead executive without giving him the team president, title and
had they were had like the weirdest press release of
it of all. TIME i DON'T i guess it was
a money thing that they didn't want.

Speaker 3 (01:27:12):
To mean as they can pay him less the. President all, right.

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
Uh they then for some, reason they Extended Yaka pertl
on a three, year eighty four point five million dollar.
Deal he picked up his nineteen point five million dollar
team option as excuse, me nineteen point five million dollar
player option for twenty six to twenty seven is part
of this extension grant that, brings including this upcoming, season

(01:27:38):
The Yaka pertl contract grand totals now five years and
one hundred and twenty three point one million. Dollars find
you a team or just somebody who loves you as
much as The Toronto raptors Love Yaka. Purdle they Signed
Sandro mamerskvivli to a two year minimum deal with a
player option on the latter, year and Then garrett Temple
is back on a one year minimum. Deal well what

(01:28:01):
were they? Like AND i want to point out they
didn't do a TON i mean The Yaka purle EXTENSION
i think cost a. Ton they didn't do a ton
because Like brandon Ingram is their free agency, addition they
acquired him at the, deadline they extended. Him but what
what was the endgame of The Toronto raptors this? Offseason, granted, well.

Speaker 3 (01:28:18):
This is this is the. Problem because what we're, trying
what we've committed to trying to lay, out is like
what's the goal right of the team in the, Offseason
and it's harder to say with any clarity what that
is for The raptors than it is for almost any
other team other than Like. Helicans just Like plican's goal
is to screw up and they're killing. It it just

(01:28:42):
feels like more of the, same, right like from From
webster being like the internal promotion basically as like a
guy that's been been there for a lot of the
transactions that got them to this, point, right.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
CAN i inerject to ask you a.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
QUESTION i don't know what to make of The messiah
Eu jerry stuff because was it if it was something
about his vision for the, roster letting him go and
then proceeding to do absolutely nothing to change the roster is.
Weird and that if it was a money, thing that
like that can't make you feel good about what's happening.

Speaker 3 (01:29:14):
Either, No AND i think actually what you're describing makes
it seem more likely that it was money because they
didn't like hard pivot to someone with a different. Ideology
it doesn't seem like maybe that'll be proved based on
what's happened so, Far it's sure doesn't seem.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
Like they extension is.

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
Proof, yeah really to culinary boyles like really interesting player
does a lot of things, well is a weird? Fit
is another guy that like maybe isn't gonna help you
as a space probably isn't gonna help you as a,
spacer does a lot just Some Scottie barnes vibes in
terms of just like, yeah he checks a lot of,
boxes but, LIKE i don't know how valuable is someone

(01:29:50):
that just isn't gonna get guarded seriously beyond the arc
when he doesn't have the, Ball, like they just have
a lot of those. Guys SO i don't know what
they're trying to do other than kind of preserve the status.
QUO i guess if you're going to be, charitable you
would say they're trying to see what the healthy version
of this team they've put together over the LAST i

(01:30:12):
guess eighteen months looks, like which is like the quickly
Barrett Ingram barnes, Pearl like what can that? Be they
didn't they didn't tinker with that because they haven't actually
seen what that looks. LIKE i think you AND i
are both kind of on the side of like that
looks like a team that tops out at forty one
wins or forty four or something like that and is

(01:30:32):
hampered by spacing all, year feels, unambitious feels, uninventive feels
LIKE i mean to be less kind about, it feels
like banging your head against the wall a little bit
from a like a direction. Standpoint so this is one
of the teams that kind of for, me it really
was always going to struggle to come out of this

(01:30:53):
with a good grade because, like, One i'm not totally
sure what you'd say they're, doing and two if this
this is what they're trying to, do whatever this, is,
LIKE i don't like. It SO i don't know which
which of the you mentioned the pearl, thing, like can
we talk them like why that's what do we need
to do that?

Speaker 1 (01:31:11):
For SO i what's interesting IS i actually disagree on
The raptors in the sense That i'm all for seeing
there's just a lot of talent, here, sure and there's
a lot of guys that can do stuff on. Ball
we've seen that they've GOTTEN. Rj barrett to do more
away from the. Ball maybe you can do the same
With Brandon. INGRAM i agree with what you said About Calamary.
Boyles the fit on offense is going to be hella awkward,

(01:31:32):
defensively THOUGH i think he could be really good right.

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
AWAY i.

Speaker 1 (01:31:35):
AGREE i think that this team could benefit Like that's
WHY i like The mamu, signing is to have a
floor spacing center that would help them a. TON i
think that we've kind of forgotten how good a manual
quickly can, be So i'm not as fast as some people, Think,
well you need to trade or should have Traded purtle
or gotten rid OF.

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
Rj barrett by.

Speaker 1 (01:31:51):
Now there is something weird about this team being into
the luxury TAX i totally agree with. THAT i think
their ceiling is more like forty, six forty, seven forty eight.
Wins everyone stays healthy because there's a lot of talent and.
Versatility WHAT i take issue with IS i already mentioned
the masaiu jery. Stuff if it was if it was financially,
motivated which you AND i both believe it, was that's
even more. Inexcusable if it was like philosophical, DIFFERENCES i get,

(01:32:13):
it you've already proven it wasn't, that or even if
you think it was that you don't get to then
sit here and do absolutely. Nothing not only did you
do absolutely, nothing you you doubled. Down and that's my
sticking point. Here the unambitious move to me was Extending Yaka.
Partle why what was the?

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
Urgency what was the.

Speaker 1 (01:32:30):
Urgency to Extend yaka peurdl because he had a player
option for twenty twenty six twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
Seven, LIKE i just don't. Like what was the if
he if he picked it up as part of that.
Deal you think he wasn't gonna be willing to do
that like In. JUNE i just.

Speaker 1 (01:32:45):
DON'T i don't understand that at. All and SO i
think that this was an unambitious offseason in the sense
of you got rid Of masaiu jury because you cheaped.
Out that's my read on. It maybe we're, wrong but
that's my read on. It and then you Extended Yaka
purl when you didn't have, to when he is among
the questionable fits for your roster given how you fleshed
it out, Elsewhere i'm open to the idea that we

(01:33:07):
still need to see this in. ACTION i seem to
be higher on the encore product than, you AND i
still think this was an abomination of an off season from.

Speaker 3 (01:33:13):
Them so if minus is What i'm, hearing.

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
Uh, NO i went WITH A i don't even remember
WHAT i went. WITH i went with A. D i
believe what did you go? WITH i want THE d
plus Because i'm high on The.

Speaker 3 (01:33:24):
Raptors you're welcome you you like The encore products exactly
one half grade more THAN i. DO i went with THE. D,
YEAH i JUST i don't like the. Vision the peeral
thing makes no. Sense, YEAH i, mean, yeah maybe you're
right about their ceiling in terms of like The east
sucks and somebody's got to win in the high, forties
and maybe they're.

Speaker 1 (01:33:41):
It even if you don't like their, vision aren't you
at least open to them trying to see how it
plays out because we haven't been able to see it play.

Speaker 3 (01:33:48):
OUT i think that's the. Best the best argument you
can make in their favor is they they don't they
don't know, yet like what this looks like with these
five guys, together and then like we're not even talking
about some of it because they're not off season moves,
really but like you, know What's Jacobe walter look? Like
what Like mobo And shed and Like Grady, Dick, like

(01:34:08):
there's their talent on this. Team there's no questioning. That
they just they're just continuing to Throw ingram in. Here
they're just continuing to pay guys that like why so?
Much why so? Soon and how and again without knowing
like if this player type In ingram's case or In purtle's,
case like can even get you to a level you

(01:34:29):
want to get.

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
To, HONESTLY i would say it's probably pretty rare that
a team that didn't give out more than a minimum
contract in free agency get the d, Right, like what's.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
The last time that would have?

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
Happened probably The.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
Bulls speaking of the, transition you really are a veteran
of the, show, sir all.

Speaker 3 (01:34:48):
Right i'll take. Them uh, spoiler this will factor into
my grade a little. Bit Signed Billy donovan too an,
extension and signed arturist Karnashov us to an. Extension they
Took Noah senga at number. Twelve he dunked. On they
traded number forty, five which Was Rocko. Zakarski i'm, sorry
it's gonna be the only thing we think of until
he does something. Else for number fifty, Five Lachlan olbrick and.

(01:35:09):
Cash they Traded Lonzo ball straight up one for one
to The cavs For Isaaca. Korro lot's a pretty interesting
deal to. Unpack there brought Back Trey jones on a three,
year twenty four million dollar deal that's a flat eight
million per year and twenty seven to twenty eight is
a team. Option and then most, recently they Got Josh,
giddy a restricted free agent back four, years one hundred,

(01:35:30):
million fully, guaranteed no, options a standard ascending. Scale he
wanted WHAT i guess it would have been one twenty
or one. Thirty they wanted. EIGHTY i think was their starting.
Point they they met in the, middle ALTHOUGH i have
some thoughts on if that was actually a meeting in the. Middle, So,
dan The bulls goal was to win between two. GAMES

(01:35:56):
i think they've done a bang up job of. Us
it's well WHAT i will, Say, uh we disagree with
their direction and have. Forever this is the perfect, offseason
uh in chasing that that goal that they've set out
for themselves just.

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
Terrific, yeah IT'S i get it seems, unambitious but isn't
that the goal of the franchise to be.

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
Unambitious that's Why i've had. Trouble it's a hard team to.

Speaker 3 (01:36:25):
Grade for that, reason they're nailing it in terms.

Speaker 2 (01:36:27):
Of what they want to. Do here's my.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Thing if you're going to be, unambitious you should have
Extended nikol and for that reason they get An alf's.

Speaker 3 (01:36:35):
Right they could have done so much. More is it
too soon to Extend Patrick williams?

Speaker 2 (01:36:40):
Again?

Speaker 1 (01:36:43):
So can his entire contract just be player options each?

Speaker 2 (01:36:47):
Year he's not negotiating Every you know.

Speaker 3 (01:36:49):
What you're in, charge. Man you want to come back,
great if, not.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
GODSPEED I, SO i actually don't have a problem with
The donovan. EXTENSION i don't know that we know and
not off about what he could do with a really good,
roster but like he's done things like help them at.
Points feel like the way they played on offense last
year was actually highly entertaining once they kind Of so
he moved on from Zach. Lvine you had moved on
from DeMar derozen before. That, Uh i'm fine with. THAT

(01:37:15):
i don't like the ak getting an, extension which we
don't know when that actually might not even be an
off season, thing but grandfathered in to hear that's an
f move because it's was announced, right and SO i
like a sangue like having watched him in suddenly like
he had a few plays where it was kind of, like,
oh all, right like, him look at him getting downhill
with the ball in his. Hands BUT i DON'T i
didn't love anything about their. OFFENSE i think The Trey

(01:37:35):
jones deal is really. Good now they just have all these.
Guards and if the biggest, COMPLIMENT i don't know where to.
Land let's start, here where do you land on a
corral For Lonzo? Ball because some of me understands. It in,
theory because it's a choral can play more, minutes they
needed more of a like a perimeter like attack dog
on defense Than Lonzo ball was ever gonna provide. You

(01:37:55):
and in theory they might have enough, offense So Isaaca
cora will hit his corner threes the regular season and
then they don't play beyond the regular season, really so
then who cares what he does in the. Playoffs BUT
i was also just sort of like, like, like why
you got the worst player on the worst contract and
you didn't get any picks for?

Speaker 2 (01:38:14):
It SO i didn't love.

Speaker 1 (01:38:15):
That and then the biggest compliment that it seems people
want to give is you Met Josh giddy in the.

Speaker 2 (01:38:21):
Middle JUST i think.

Speaker 3 (01:38:24):
YOU i think that's like, again The Trey jones. DEAL
i like that. DEAL i think that's objectively. GOOD i
think for the wrong, REASONS A coral probably is a
better player for this team Than lonzo ball is because
it's not a playoff type of situation for the you
know WHAT i, Mean, like, yeah, nope you're. Right we
don't care about the playoffs and the stuff that matters,

(01:38:45):
There so A coral makes. Sense who cares if he
gets played off the floor because nobody bothers to guard
him if he's shooting threes in the, corner not an
issue for. Us the big thing is just bundling up
The donovan And nak extension is just ownership saying looking
at the last half decade and saying we're good with

(01:39:05):
this and that sucks like, that that's that's dispiriting If
i'm a, fan because like this is. Boring who wants?
This it's JUST i hate that we used unambitious For
toronto right before, this because like this is the unambitious
team the Bull like it's it's a broken, Record LIKE
i JUST i don't understand the lack of desire to

(01:39:27):
like whatever you want to call, it take a big,
swing like do something, different peel off the, veterans start,
over or like make a big trade for just. Anything
So i'm just so disheartened by the let's do more
of this tenor of the coach and executive extensions that,
like it's hard to get excited about anything. Else and

(01:39:50):
then on The gidea, Front, yeah you you didn't give
him what he was asking, for SO i guess like
in some way that can be framed as a, win
except like nobody else was gonna give him, anything so
you could have held strong and said it's twenty a year,
tops or take the qualifying, offer LIKE i do feel

(01:40:13):
like even though they got down to one hundred, million
it felt like The bulls. Caved LIKE i don't view
this As giddy caving Because giddy had one team in
position to pay, him and it was The. Bulls he
didn't really have realistic. ALTERNATIVES i don't see Why chicago
had to do. This now it's possible he's a positive

(01:40:34):
value at this, Contract I'LL i personally don't think that's super.
LIKELY i just don't believe in what he. Does mattering
on a team that. Wins, again here we, are though
The bulls are a team that has low, ambitions and
maybe this is a value for. THEM i just think
given what the market was, yielding which is nothing for
restricted free, agents you could have held out. Longer you

(01:40:55):
could have dared him to take the qualifying.

Speaker 1 (01:40:57):
Offer SO i don't have gotten a team option on
the like in a fifth year or, AGAIN i.

Speaker 3 (01:41:03):
Don't view it as a. WIN i don't view it
as a.

Speaker 1 (01:41:05):
Win and it's even if THAT i just even if
in a vacuum he plays up to the standard of this,
contract the limitations he imposes on you from. It, like
let's let's look at what the best version Of Josh
giddy was last. Year him getting all the way, downhill
not bailing out on, floaters him hitting his, threes still
not bringing anything for you, defensively still borderline, useless is

(01:41:27):
probably too too, cruel but like not a threat away
from the, Ball and by, THREAT i, mean, okay you
might knock down spot up threes to how many teams, Care,
Right you're not gonna treat him like a. Threat and
the other, thing, too is so now you've paid him miss, Money,
kobe if Like Kobe white's.

Speaker 2 (01:41:44):
Better Like Kobe white is just.

Speaker 1 (01:41:46):
Better he's more plug and playing on the offensive, End
he's has the higher ceiling as a shot. Creator is
that your back court of the, future knowing what he's gonna.
Cost So i'm not saying they should have went and.
Traded they probably should have Traded Kobe white by, now
But i'm not digging him from not Trading Kobe. White
but that's the word, again as unambitious as you've decided
that these two or like your back quart of the,
future and if you're gonna choose between the, two you
picked the wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:42:06):
One so you're.

Speaker 1 (01:42:08):
Right it does feel like the deal is not bad
and the process WAS i say the process was, okay
but it's also just was it like it did because
it's like you, said they could have held out for,
More and it's not if you would have signed his
qualifying offer because he'd been restricted unrestricted free agent left for,
Nothing so what?

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
Right so?

Speaker 1 (01:42:28):
WHAT i don't know that he drives winning enough to
say they needed to do. THIS i think it's just
if they were gonna hold out as long as they,
did couldn't they, have like you, said push for? More
or like why not get this deal done then, Early,
like you can't tell me that this was he really
not signing for for one hundred earlier in the, Off
like what what made you decide that you wanted to go?

Speaker 2 (01:42:48):
UP i want to know what?

Speaker 1 (01:42:50):
Changed and so if they were going to do something
with him where it was costing them twenty plus million a,
year it felt like it should have been more team
because right now it's okay if he plays up to
snuff on this, deal like get to be a free agent.
Again like at the end of, it like you didn't
get a player, option but you also didn't get a
fifth year or a team option at any point you
didn't stick to the price that you wanted, to which

(01:43:11):
was twenty at the. Beginning SO i DON'T i guess
they got the years they wanted, though because didn't they
want four for eighty that's what you said at the, top.

Speaker 3 (01:43:18):
That WAS i THINK i remember it being they want
four for. Eighty he wants four for one to.

Speaker 1 (01:43:22):
Twenty, Yeah SO I i guess that's WHAT I just
don't you already trying to play the leverage. Game And
i'm not saying restricted free agency is fair to the,
players but it is collectively bargained that it makes sense
for teams to push those pressure. Points and it's maybe
they saw Because Cam thomas signed his qualifying off for
first is that something that sort of pushed them over
the edge to, say oh, no like we.

Speaker 3 (01:43:44):
Did, Know, YEAH i, DON'T i don't. Know let's get
to the grades. Here we are not on Team. Bulls,
HERE i went du WENT d. Plus it's like it's
not an f because you can make a case for
The giddy. DEAL i guess we're not gonna make. It
and then we like some of the smaller, stuff but
overall direction is just we hate.

Speaker 1 (01:44:02):
It we're onto The Cleveland, cavaliers another team that did
not do too. Much but what they did Do grant
is they Signed Kobe autman to a two year, extension
so now he's on the books through or with them
through twenty twenty. Eight twenty. Nine they Drafted Tyrese proctor
at number forty, nine then signed him using the second
round exception a team. Option on that fourth. Year they

(01:44:23):
Drafted Salou niang at number fifty. Eight they traded Guyasa
acorol For Lonzo. Ball we just talked about that. Trade
they Resigned sam maryld a four, year thirty eight million
dollar deal fully guaranteed no, options and they Signed Larry
Nance junior to a one year minimum. Deal and, also
just as a, Note tijerrome is now with The. Grizzlies
he used to play for The. Cavaliers all, right what was?

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
There what was their?

Speaker 3 (01:44:43):
Goal trying to win the? Title? Man that's? It, like,
right that's they're trying to win? Championship they were? Once
what do they? Win sixty? Four last year number one
seed left the playoffs earlier than you should if you're
a sixty four win. Team injuries had something to do with.
That But i'm gonna focus here on, UH i guess
this is just the reverse of The chicago side of.

(01:45:04):
IT i THINK i think you're probably right if you
Assume ball is going to play less than A coorra
would have and the, injury the risk of him just
actually giving you nothing is probably among the highest of
any player in the. League. RIGHT i still think it
was a great trade for them because on the off
chance that he is healthy in the, POSTSEASON i can
imagine him closing. Games so, like that's that's where the

(01:45:28):
analysis ends for me on.

Speaker 2 (01:45:29):
That the other thing, too AND i think it could.

Speaker 1 (01:45:31):
BE i would, agree but it could be extended sort
of like we do With Norman powell just before The
Max strews injury makes What Lonzo ball does a lot
more like the connective passing and the shooting for, sure.

Speaker 3 (01:45:42):
Right he's he is very much a playoff player in
ways that A koro is. Not like teams are concerned
about his. Shooting he is valuable off of the. Ball
he's valuable with the, ball but doesn't need to be
the one that's scoring with. It and good good off ball,
defend good team defender like can help insulate Both mitchell
and Gar. Carland you, know just like just does stuff
that you want from what would clearly be like a

(01:46:04):
fifth guy you know on in any lineup you have
out there against really good. Teams so love, That Sam
merrill four for thirty, eight no. Problem, again another thing
that looks good with looks better With struce being. Hurt
just you still got plenty of shooting in the. Hole
and he's a better defender than most players like him.

Speaker 1 (01:46:21):
Are thank you for, saying, well it's just like the
bar is low, Right like we're comparing him against like
THE Aj greens And Luke kennards and trying to think
who Else i'd throw in, there your buddy heels like
that kind of, Thing like four for thirty eight for
him is totally.

Speaker 3 (01:46:34):
Reasonable that was true Before struce got. Hurt it's more true.
NOW i just Like Larry. NANCE i think that's a
great minimum. Signing i've always liked. Him can defend.

Speaker 1 (01:46:42):
Sea of players who risk giving you nothing though because of.
Injury SURE i WOULD i probably would. Have if we're,
NITPICKING i would have liked to have seen, them and
they still could add a big that, can like you,
know is gonna be, there, like let's. Not we don't
need like The Tristan Thompson Human victory cigar roster. Spot
the other, thing, too is just they could have Paid Ty.
JEROME i understand why they. Didn't they're in the second

(01:47:03):
apron like when teams are going into the second ape or, no,
no they are in the Second. April they're the only
team in the Second. April so you need to give
them kudos for. That but you do sort of, wonder
what's the ball handling look like in the half court
coming off the bench, now because that's not that's not
what a lonzo does it's not what Sam merril. Does
maybe that says a lot with how they feel About Jalalen.
Tyson we'll have to see for. Sure tyre's procter and

(01:47:24):
theory is someone could do some of that, Stuff BUT
i don't expect the number forty nine pick to be
a part of the.

Speaker 2 (01:47:28):
Rotation hot.

Speaker 3 (01:47:29):
TIG a gentleman Named Evan mobley might be able to
soak up, that.

Speaker 2 (01:47:34):
Right totally a phote of.

Speaker 1 (01:47:35):
Confidence but just if you're Playing, Domin Mitchell Darius ground
so much, together you'd like to have a third ball
handling guard come off the, BENCH i would think. So
not a big, thing but that's where they had no.
Resources what they had was the ability to retain. Talent
they found a way to, ADD i, think on to
their team With Lonzo. Ball the only thing THAT i
think you can really quibble over is right that like

(01:47:55):
third ball, handler should they have just kept like sucked
it up and Paid?

Speaker 2 (01:47:58):
Tygerome, YEAH i think that's. Fair would you give him
as a?

Speaker 3 (01:48:01):
GRADE i gave him A b and that that really
is just an acknowledgment THAT i pointed to of like,
you the downside risk is you get literally zero From
lonzo and Possibly, nance and SO i just have to
kind of price that. In but REALLY i love the
theory of basically everything they.

Speaker 1 (01:48:18):
DID i WENT p plus BECAUSE i think that highly
Of tyree's.

Speaker 2 (01:48:22):
Proctor that's really the OLDER.

Speaker 1 (01:48:24):
I HONESTLY i like The Sam meryl deal AND i
love THE I i guess it's a trade that it
was easy to justify for both teams in. Hindsight BUT
i really just even with the risk, INVOLVED i like
The lonzo deal.

Speaker 2 (01:48:35):
So much better For. Cleveland you got the better player
on the better. Contract As i've said like eight.

Speaker 1 (01:48:40):
Times now on this, podcast The Detroit, pistons they're your.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
Team grant all, right.

Speaker 3 (01:48:45):
Drafted Chas laniar at thirty. Seven he got the second
round special four years for eight point Seven you. DO
i did listen to the Look. Ahead you Love?

Speaker 2 (01:48:52):
Chazz, yeah, last, last, Last so.

Speaker 1 (01:48:58):
This Is.

Speaker 3 (01:48:59):
Grant they Signed karrislavert two years twenty eight point nine,
million Resigned Paul reid two years ten point nine Traded
Simoni fontechio For Duncan. Robinson that's a sign and, trade
And robinson has his deals have always been, weird but
signed a three, year forty five million dollar. Deal it's
a declining scale. Deal only two millions guaranteed in twenty

(01:49:19):
six twenty. Seven none of it is guaranteed in twenty
seven twenty. Eight this is an a plus for you
Signed Javonte green to one year. Minimum should dig the
bulls for? That one of The pelicans had who had
Von green did last? Year, well they both had him at.
POINTS i can't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:49:32):
Where it, was like the bulls let. Go at some
point they had a.

Speaker 3 (01:49:35):
F you're The Javonte? Green, well how about? This we
just don't believe in The pelicans or The. Bulls what
are they have in? Common gave up On Javonte? Green
they signed and. Traded talking about The pistons Now Dennis
shrewder to The kings with a twenty twenty nine second
that's the least favorable Of, Detroit milwaukee and The knicks
For charlotte's twenty six second top fifty five protection fake
second alert that created a fourteen point one million dollar

(01:49:58):
traded player.

Speaker 2 (01:49:58):
Exception i'm, Sorry CAN i be a? Nerd could we
be at dorks for a?

Speaker 3 (01:50:01):
Second love?

Speaker 1 (01:50:02):
It that sign and trade move was, Brilliant like you
found a way to use the non tax payer mid
level and then still have it if you want to
go out and make a trade in the off. Season
that was JUST i don't know That i've seen that
talk to. IT i thought that was a great move by.
Them they got a plus for the off. Season let's
move on to the next.

Speaker 3 (01:50:17):
Team so The pistons, goal As i've said a trillion
times and written probably two trillion, times basically tripled their
win total year over. Year their goal is to just
continue climbing The east. Hierarchy, basically they got a taste
of it last Year Kid cunningham. Arrived they are trying to.

(01:50:38):
WIN i don't think it's realistic to say that they're
on like The, Orlando New, York, cleveland whatever, level but
they would like to get. There, OKAY i think we
need to we need to view. That we'll just talk
An Eastern, conference The thunder their own, thing.

Speaker 2 (01:50:52):
So that's.

Speaker 3 (01:50:53):
You we've got to view these moves through that lens
like they are in the business of needing to at
least stay as good as they were from a person no,
standpoint and or get. Better and we. DON'T i don't.
Know maybe this is a question like how much do
you consider the likelihood of organic growth from so many
of their younger players when you're, evaluating like how much

(01:51:13):
they needed to do in terms of like bringing in new.
Bodies you, KNOW i just.

Speaker 2 (01:51:20):
Wait SO i don't GUESS i don't understand that. Question so.

Speaker 3 (01:51:24):
On, Internal, No i'm, asking like how in your evaluating
if you're evaluating The, pistons and let's, Say i'm not
sure Carousel vert's that big of an, upgrade and like
they're gonna Miss Dennis. SHREWDER i don't know That Duncan
robinson is better than is gonna give you What Malik
beasley would. Have now that's a wild. Card maybe he'll be,

(01:51:45):
back who, Knows but like does that matter if you
Think Ron, HOLLAND. Anosr thompson And jalen Duran and And
jade And ivy are all gonna, pop like you know
WHAT i, Mean, like do we need to worry as
much about, oh these new guys are downgrades if you
think their minutes are going to be small, anyway because
all these young guys are just gonna be, awesome you
know WHAT i?

Speaker 1 (01:52:04):
Mean so, YEAH i actually Think karrislvert's an upgrade BECAUSE
i think he's underrated defensively and he's more of an
off ball threat Than Detis shulder at this point, specifically,
Right but to your, point what you're mentioning about the young,
guys you have to find out.

Speaker 2 (01:52:19):
Too and so IT'S i don't know WHERE i land
On jade And. Ivy you've always been a little bit
higher on him THAN i, Have.

Speaker 1 (01:52:24):
Yeah BUT i understand, that, like it's easier to carve
out a major role For jade And ivy if you
Have Karros lavert instead Of Detis. Shrewder and so even
if karrislivert ends up being a, downgrade you need to
still find out What and the fact that we haven't
heard about it during or An ivy extension yet both
are extension eligible kind of seems like The pistons are
still trying to figure out what they. Have but that's
kind of the point and one of the REASONS i

(01:52:45):
liked their offseason so.

Speaker 2 (01:52:46):
Much so there are two factors for, me The Malik beasley.

Speaker 1 (01:52:49):
Stuff the three, year forty two million dollars deal that
was on the table got kabashed because of the federal gambling,
probe and maybe he will be back on The pistons
on a cheaper. DEAL i thought they rebounded very nice
by getting To Duncan. Robinson you Lose Simoni, fontacio but
he had a down.

Speaker 2 (01:53:04):
Year wasn't IN. Jb bickerstaff's most important.

Speaker 1 (01:53:06):
Rotations and what you've done IS i think you've at
least held the status quo so that you don't get
tempted to marginalize the development of your most important players BEYOND.

Speaker 2 (01:53:18):
Keg cunningham of.

Speaker 1 (01:53:19):
Course AND i think there was a risk for The
pistons to look at last, season to look at the
vacuum that was created in The east after that with
The halliburton, injury The tatum, injury what the hell or
the heat And bucks doing and they could have really
went for. It the fact that they, DIDN'T i just
think was so it's the safer, Call but it was
just it's the smart call for, me because you don't

(01:53:39):
want to do anything that won either short circuits the
development of any of these prospects or these young players
that you still don't have enough information, on or two
put yourself in a positions, where if they were making
a trade, grant you have to render a verdict on
at least one of these like four young players In
jaye And, Ivey Durantasar thompson around hollow because you're not
making major move without including one of. Them and the

(01:54:03):
final Thing i'll say, IS i think we also need
to remember that progress isn't. Linear so The pisons could
win like five fewer. Games but if if you now know, that,
Okay jade And ivy isn't part of the long term,
plan Or jaye And ivy got, better like that's as
valuable as winning like four or five more games than
they did last season to this.

Speaker 3 (01:54:22):
Group. OKAY i THINK i asked the question, about like
how do you factor in the young guys Because I'm
i'm struggling with. IT i do THINK i THINK i
mostly agree that like this sort of like, yeah They
i'm not. SURE i Think LeVert is an upgrade Over,
Shrewder and it'll be really hard for, someone Even robinson

(01:54:44):
to come in and provide the value That beasley did last.
Year Now beasley this year Versus robinson this, year it
might be, like first of, all they might be, teammates
and second of all it might be not the. Same
But beasley was so, good so valuable for them last
season like that just so to, Me i'm trying to
decide how MUCH i think it matters that they're a
little worse in terms of who went out and who's coming.

(01:55:06):
IN i, think and maybe that doesn't matter at, all
because like it's close enough and the young guys will
all get, better and you want those minutes going to
the young guys, Anyway so like the little bit worse
that they are matters less because those they're just you're
not gonna Play livert as much as you Played, True
you're not gonna Play robinson as much as you Played.
Beasley SO i don't.

Speaker 2 (01:55:23):
KNOW i.

Speaker 3 (01:55:26):
Are you, well let me ask. You this just accurse to.
Me are you surprised we haven't seen much extension talk
for For Ivan? Duran, like do you do you think.

Speaker 1 (01:55:34):
THE i mean part of it is just like worth
the time of the offseason where when they arrive for trading,
CAMP i assume maybe we'll hear more about, It BUT
i Don't ivy, specifically how do you make any sort
of decision on? HIM i just don't after the injury
from last season and just, okay he had shown that
he was improving as as a like a second side
creator and like an off ball, Shooter but, like is

(01:55:56):
that worth twenty five million dollars a year based off
that's the most sample Size duran is. More that's a
little red flaggy for me because IT'S i think he's
probably like he showed more Than ivy at this, point
and just like he did improve defensively last, season we
know he played more within himself on.

Speaker 2 (01:56:11):
Offense for.

Speaker 1 (01:56:12):
Sure you don't have a lot of just other center.
OPS i mean you Have Isaiah stewart And Paul, reid
But Isaiah stewart's like he didn't play a ton of
minutes last. Year he was also injured by the end
of the. Season And Paul reid IS i, mean He's Paul.
Reid he's gonna be A hall Of. Famer but SO
i don't, KNOW i don't make too much of. It
AND i also like they're a team like those players,
specifically maybe Not ivy because he was picked so, High

(01:56:35):
like would they prefer to work with their cap ples next?
Summer and they know how restricted free agency? Works so
is that the the route there?

Speaker 2 (01:56:42):
Now With?

Speaker 1 (01:56:42):
IVY i think that he's gonna end up getting like
less than his cap hold would be FOR i THINK
i can't remember What duran's cap Pold, is but it
should be.

Speaker 2 (01:56:50):
Lower, YEAH i just.

Speaker 1 (01:56:53):
Like, yeah nineteen nineteen million dollars cap holds For. DURAN
i think he's gonna get more than.

Speaker 3 (01:56:58):
That so and you THINK ivy AND ivy has got
to be up in the mid, twenties right or something
like what was he the fourth? Pick fifth? PICK i can't.

Speaker 2 (01:57:05):
Remember this is going to be more like thirty thirty point.

Speaker 3 (01:57:08):
Three so, yeah he's getting less than, That.

Speaker 2 (01:57:10):
Ivy it just feels like a lack of information.

Speaker 3 (01:57:13):
Thing, Right, yeah if he's anywhere close to, that The
pistons are ecstatic because it means he really he pops all, Right,
WELL i don't, know you want to get some. GRADES
i think we're a little bit far apart on, this but,
LIKE i don't think our logic is all that. DIFFERENT
i went with A, c you went with A. B
mine is JUST i THINK i ultimately focused more on
Like i'm not again flashing neon. SIGNS c is not.

(01:57:36):
BAD c is. Fine and that's just kind of HOW
i view the swap Of LeVert And robinson For beasley
And shrewd or under the CIRCUMSTANCES.

Speaker 1 (01:57:46):
I might be, COMING i think it was a bee
because Of i'm caking in that there was a temptation
for them to do more and they, didn't WHICH i like.
That and by the, way the other thing too is
this isn't part of my. Grade but and you kind
of already alluded to, this there's a chance that the
Whole beasley drama ends with them going From shrewder And, Beasley,
Shrewder beasley And fontechio To Caris, Lever Duncan robinson And,

(01:58:08):
beasley WHICH i think that the that's an.

Speaker 3 (01:58:09):
Upgrade, YEAH i mean just it's funny, that, like, yeah
this might really work out well for The, pistons, ironically
because they'll just Get beasley for a third of what
they were gonna have to pay, him and maybe he'll
be as good as he was last, year although AGAIN
i think that's hard to gonna be hard to.

Speaker 2 (01:58:24):
Beat we're onto The Indiana.

Speaker 1 (01:58:25):
Pacers this is. Rough they do not Have Miles turner.
Anymore we should start. There but they Signed Reck carlisle
to a multi year. Extension they Drafted Taylor peter at
number fifty. Four they Traded sacramento's two thousand and thirty
second round pick and two point five million dollars in
cash to The spurs for number thirty, eight which they
used On Cam. Jones he signed with the second round
exception team. Option on that fourth, season they Traded portland

(01:58:47):
twenty twenty nine second round pick and a twenty and
thirty one second round.

Speaker 2 (01:58:51):
Swap For Jay. Huff, grant do we give the eight
plus right? Now or we just, like what do we?
Do do we move on from? There what did they also?

Speaker 1 (01:58:59):
Do they resign And Isaiah jackson to a three, year
twenty one million dollar, deal declining scale fully. Guaranteed they
Resigned James wiseman to a two year minimum deal team
option on the second, season and probably honestly the most
mission critical deal thing they did of all was picked
Up Tony bradley's two point nine million dollar team.

Speaker 2 (01:59:15):
Option where are you at with this? Team? Grant, well
what was their? Goal?

Speaker 3 (01:59:20):
Then let's establish that.

Speaker 1 (01:59:22):
Tread water in the absence Of Tyre's haliburton right not
To they kind of know they're not getting back to the.
Finals and by the, WAY i don't know how you
they reacquired their own pick for this coming, season but
they did it like while they were still playing, basketball
even though with some other teams this.

Speaker 2 (01:59:35):
Offseason how do you did you factor that in at?

Speaker 3 (01:59:37):
ALL i, know BUT i did have a morbid thought about,
that like did they know That Haliburton's achilles was just
like a time? Bomb like did they have like? Inform
of course, not but, like, boy that worked out well
for a, gap you, know like that's you want the
player to be, healthy but if he's not going to be,
healthy having the safety net of that pick is pretty.

(01:59:57):
Sweet SO i Guess i'm really just focused On Miles
turner leaving for What Jack fisher reported was a refusal
On indiana's part to pay more than twenty two million a.
YEAR i Think there've been other numbers out, there But
i'm very much anchored to that The bucks swoop them

(02:00:18):
up for uh what four for one oh, seven one oh.
EIGHT i just think that. SUCKS i think If i'm
A pacers, Fan i'm really, LIKE i Think Miles turner's
worth what he got from The bucks. Won, Yep he's
certainly worth more than what The pacers were offering. Him
so it's just it's such a, DISAPPOINTING i don't, know,

(02:00:39):
cowardly like whatever whatever word you want to use to
let a starting center on A finals team go even
if he sucked in the finals over a couple million
bucks because you don't want to spend. IT i hate.
It that's, like that's the beginning and end of My
pacers offseason.

Speaker 2 (02:00:56):
Analysis that is why the off season is so.

Speaker 1 (02:00:58):
Bad you hit on it right at the end because
they were willing to go TO x and he ends
up getting a few million bucks. More it wasn't that
they went into the offseason and decided This Tyre's haliburton
injury is going to force us into a wholesale. Pivot
you your cutoff point was too, low and you mentioned
how bad he was in the. Finals i've seen the
shooting numbers When Tyre's halliburton's off the. Court the entire

(02:01:21):
reason you bring Back Miles turner is to have him
on the court When Tyre's halliburton is.

Speaker 2 (02:01:25):
There and it's. Not it wasn't about this coming.

Speaker 1 (02:01:28):
Season we could talk about the, tax but then that
gets into well then should did?

Speaker 2 (02:01:32):
They you, Know john.

Speaker 1 (02:01:33):
Hollingerd pointed this. Out you, know we went against him
on the Mchal bridges, stuff but he said The pacer
shouldn't have extended To Andrew nemhard as early as they
did because they would have had another year of very
cost controlled money that would have been theory allowed them
to Pay Miles turner ducked the tax this.

Speaker 2 (02:01:46):
Year that's something to consider in.

Speaker 1 (02:01:48):
Himsight but, like you just made the, finals and if
you're trying to keep the idea of because what does
that say to you That Miles turner is? Gone how
are you planning on getting back to THAT Nba finals
level with what's left in place at the center, rotation
which is Now Isaiah jackson who's coming off An achilles,
Injury James, wiseman who's coming off in An achilles.

Speaker 2 (02:02:07):
INJURY i guess you could.

Speaker 1 (02:02:08):
Play i'm intrigued by like The obi top And Pascal
siakam front court of, it all those minutes with them,
together even Without tyre's haliburt rctually really good last. SEASON
i don't Like jay huff is. Good you can't he's
not like you can't play as aggressively on defense with,
him and he's a per minute darling in part because
he doesn't play a lot of minutes and him being

(02:02:30):
billed as, like, oh he was in the rotation of
like a Good Memphis grizzlies, team for like a, second
like by like the latter two thirds of the, season
he basically wasn't in the. Rotation i'm not, Saying, look the,
trade The Jay huff trade was actually.

Speaker 2 (02:02:42):
Good he's not A Miles turner.

Speaker 1 (02:02:44):
Replacement he's like a facsimile of a fac simile of
a fac simile Of Miles. Turner and he's twenty, seven
SO i don't, know or twenty Eight. Tony he's actually
correct me WHAT i called him twenty seven the other.
DAY i don't know what the upside is there, again
a good, trade you know, what it would have looked
even Better he's still Have Miles turner on the, roster
because now you Have Miles turner and another cost controlled

(02:03:04):
floor spacing rint protecting center, potentially like Imagine Jay huff
is like rather than the idea of well should he
start As Miles turner's?

Speaker 2 (02:03:13):
Backup m?

Speaker 3 (02:03:15):
Weird? RIGHT i, mean we, can we can Like Jay
huff and think he's an interesting player and still but
but to say, that, like, WELL i don't know WHAT i.
CAN i think there are people that would Say Jay
huff can be eighty five percent eighty percent of What
Miles turner was in the same size role and he's

(02:03:37):
a fraz he's what tenth of the? Cost he can't do?

Speaker 1 (02:03:40):
THAT i.

Speaker 2 (02:03:40):
WON'T i.

Speaker 3 (02:03:41):
Will and if you think he can do, that point
point to. Me point out to, me like what In
Jay huff's history suggests that that is. Possible LIKE i,
AGAIN i Like. JAY i think he's an interesting. PLAYER
i think he's he has the potential to be a
really good. Backup he's just never been more than. That
and it's not like he's twenty. Two SO i just like,
again the big picture is just, like you can't lose

(02:04:04):
a starter on a finals team who's still good and
is almost unique in terms of skill, set, right like
like a skeleton key of a player for your offense
over a couple of million dollars a year like. THAT
i just you're gonna have to really persuade me how
that's anything other than a just.

Speaker 1 (02:04:22):
Disaster and by the, way the two things miles like
there are now that Brook lopez is just like super.
Old how many players that's the floor there's christ.

Speaker 3 (02:04:37):
Might be remiss IF i didn't mag. It Guinn post
should have said him. First it's been too. Long Chris.
Bouche chris obviously do op. Breath if we're gonna run
through the, Pah i'm just gonna throw Young hanson in,
there young hands.

Speaker 1 (02:04:53):
Hope so but like that's it after the so my other,
thing it's more of a question THAT i did in
fact my. Grade would you have been more persuaded by
this had The pacers leaned into a gap year of
we're gonna maximize the volt like right, now they don't
need anything else to happen another injury to where it
looked like they were just. TELEGRAMED i don't know what
that would have looked. Like i'm not saying they should

(02:05:14):
have Traded, siakam but where we've, Been, oh they're clearly
just trying to be bad next. Year would that have
made The Miles turner decision look any?

Speaker 3 (02:05:21):
BETTER i, mean if it's, WELL i guess if it
looked like more of a concerted plan to like we
got a we have a, plan we're gonna retool really
hard in this, way but like they have too many
good players to like really pull that, off because you're
gonna have to get rid of Nies smith And nemhart and, like,
Yeah siakam And top and it's just like by the, way,
though to to The nemhart, THING i still just think

(02:05:46):
that's a great deal for. HIM i don't care that
it made it so you didn't have the too many
like if you needed to duck the tax trade topping,
Trade matherin, like there's other ways to do, this and
M hart is on a great. Deal Like i've kind
of done.

Speaker 1 (02:05:58):
Discussing, YEAH i didn't meaned to BE i didn't mean
to be smirch his value as a.

Speaker 2 (02:06:01):
Player i'm just, saying, no, NO i know what it's.

Speaker 3 (02:06:03):
It it's Just i'm not persuaded By hollander on that.

Speaker 2 (02:06:06):
One i'll say, There, LOOK i like The Rick carlisle.

Speaker 1 (02:06:09):
Extension he has done great, things and we Like Jay,
huff but we're both in agreement that this offseason for The,
pacers even knowing what their goals, are it's an f
and Maybe Isaiah jackson as a breakout year coming off an.
ACHILLES i Like Isaiah, jackson but a lot of the
stuff he does seems like it's predicated on having not
torn his.

Speaker 2 (02:06:24):
Achilles but, yep we will say.

Speaker 1 (02:06:26):
Our final, team, right last, team The Milwaukee. Bucks you
want to take us through their, transactions, sir.

Speaker 3 (02:06:32):
Sure Drafted Boglio markovich at number forty. Seven that's the
Name i've not said. BEFORE i THINK i got it.
Right Signed John horst to a multi year. Extension re
Signed Bobby portis three, years forty three point six million.
Dollars the player option is twenty twenty seven to twenty
eight is a player. Option waved and stretched One Damian
lillard two, years one hundred and sixteen million dollars. Left

(02:06:54):
they will Pay Damian lillard twenty two and a half
million every year until twenty nine to. Thirty they Traded
Pat coninson For Vasilia michic bottom, out then waved and.
Stretched that's a slightly smaller six hundred and sixty seven
grand every year through twenty seven to twenty. Eight that's
the kind of wave and stretch you want to, do
if you if you can pick and. Choose they Signed Miles.

(02:07:15):
Turner spent some time talking about him a moment. Ago four,
years one hundred and eight point nine million dollars twenty
eight twenty nine is a player. Option he's got a
fifteen percent trade. Kicker several minimums to get through. Here oh,
no not quite. Yet Kevin Porter junior got a two,
year ten and a half million dollar, deal player option
on the second, Year Gary Trent junior two years seven
point six, million also player option second, Year Torrian prince

(02:07:36):
two year seven point One Jericho simms two. Years player
options on the end of both of those is player
option palooza, Here Gary harris two years seven and a half,
million player, Option Ryan rollins back three, years twelve million.
Dollars that's a flat four per year player. Option last
year that, Deal Cole anthony bounced around a little bit
From orlando To memphis for five, seconds waved. There he

(02:07:59):
got a one year. Minimum kind of sneaky like, that as,
like why not for The? Bucks AND i know you're
holding your. Breath, uh the nastis back on a one year,
minimum And Chris livingston the.

Speaker 1 (02:08:11):
Signal That giannis was. Staying AND i think That's i'm
gonna break. In the question is what were The bucks
trying to? Do and the answer was keep keeping on
the ko. Buy and here's the, thing BECAUSE i think
we're gonna run into a lot of people calling hypocrisy
when we talk about what The suns did With Bradley
beal versus The bucks With Damian. Lillard your end goal
was to buy another year With, giannis so that here's
what you can do is hope that you're either good

(02:08:32):
enough for, him just want to stay or next. Summer
as of right, now they'll have the ability to trade
three first round. Picks Kyle kuzma will be an expiring.
Contract you have, him you Have Miles. Turner they were
also were creative with The i'm looking more at The
Gary Trent junior, thing like now you have his early
bird rights next summer if you need.

Speaker 2 (02:08:51):
Him there's a ton of flexibility.

Speaker 1 (02:08:53):
Here but the main thing, is, yeah THERE'S i don't
trust like the perimeter depth.

Speaker 2 (02:08:57):
Here it feels like they need another.

Speaker 1 (02:08:59):
CREATOR i don't trust To Cole anthony Or Kevin Porter
junior in that. Role but you bought yourself another year With,
giannis And i'm. Sorry you can set the twenty two
and a half million dollars on fire for a half,
Decade like regardless of what you, did Was Damian lower
was gonna give you a zero at fifty plus million per.
Year you now turn that Into Miles turner other. Flexibility

(02:09:20):
AND i also just twenty two and a half, Million
like that's a lot of dead. Money i'm not saying
it's not if you Trade, giannis how long is it
gonna take for you to be in a position to
where that dead money is gonna bother. You you're already ticking
one year off because of this upcoming. Season if you
Trade giannis next, summer like you're not gonna be really
good and in a position to where you need that

(02:09:42):
flexibility for at least four years, anyway, Probably.

Speaker 3 (02:09:45):
So it sounds like you're you're answering, what to me
is the most interesting question, here which.

Speaker 2 (02:09:50):
Is why Did Bobby portis get a player? OPTION i don't.

Speaker 3 (02:09:52):
Know, well that's a good deal For Bobby, porters which
is the goal we agree was Keep, Jannis and the
question to me that's most interesting is is that the
right goal for this. Team i've gone back and forth
because there's a cold side of the analysis here that
is absolutely Not you're not contending ever again because of

(02:10:16):
all you because that's the cost of contending for a
long time and winning a title with a player Like
gianness is you can't do it. Forever so the cold
side is to say this is. Done we could have
some decent, seasons we're never going to win another title
Before jannis gets way past his, prime so we should
trade him and we should start all. Over like that's

(02:10:38):
not just like a straw man. ARGUMENT i Think i've
probably made that. ARGUMENT i think plenty of people have
looked at the situation and, said, like that's just if
you want to be realistic about, this this is the
way forward For, Milwaukee like, you what are you? DOING
i Think i've come around to, like if you have
a player as great As yiannis and he's brought you
a title and he still gives a, shit which he clearly,

(02:10:59):
does and he's still close enough to being Like Apex
giannis that, LIKE i don't, know maybe you make a conference,
finals who. Knows LIKE i think the right decision to
me is to just do what it takes to keep.
Him do You it seems like you agree with, that
like you just gotta AND.

Speaker 2 (02:11:15):
I think you want to know. Why to, me it's
not even a.

Speaker 1 (02:11:17):
Question you don't control your own first round pick again
until twenty thirty? One what is that unless you were
gonna get your picks, back which that would have been
super complicated because of how many teams own them Trading
like what how valuable would the draft? Deck would he
need to?

Speaker 3 (02:11:30):
Be?

Speaker 1 (02:11:31):
No you might have been compelled to trade him for
like a package built around immedia, talent which is always
just a risky gambit when you're moving.

Speaker 3 (02:11:39):
Your warriors or Whoever miami and you get every pick they,
have and that's like pretty. Good but like we always talk,
about like you really just want your own picks back
in this. SITUATION i and LIKE i would say, Too
giannis is one of like what would you, say like
four or five guys where the Argument i'm making that

(02:11:59):
you just you just keep him and you deal with,
it like is HOW i. FEEL i think the vast
majority of even like ALL nba, GUYS i just, think
like you you, do just start. Over but he's in
that rarefied air of like brought a title, one MVP's
wants to be. There you're not a big market, team
like all the all the factors are, like, yeah he's

(02:12:19):
an exception to the rule that you do just keep
throwing good money after bad because like you're never gonna
have it A yannis, again so like you just need
To it's it's it's the. Exception so to that, end
like pretty good, offseason like they did what they could
with what they.

Speaker 1 (02:12:35):
HAD i think what you do have to factor and
is the opportunity costs and also just the risk. Involved
it's not AN a plus move what they. Did they
get AN a for creativity or they get AN a for.

Speaker 3 (02:12:44):
Guts that's a Sourcefulness like they did what they.

Speaker 1 (02:12:47):
Could but like with the, flexibility why was there not
more of an emphasis on getting like a tried and
true ball handler in? HERE i Think Miles, turner like
you also did lose Brook lopez, here and so it's
just Like miles turns an, upgrade he's gonna be more
athletic than Brook. LOPEZ i think you could do some
more aggressive things defensively with, him for, sure but Not
i'm not everything wasn't a home.

Speaker 2 (02:13:06):
Run there's a risk.

Speaker 1 (02:13:07):
Involved BUT i, mean, like just to get to the grades,
HERE i went with A, b you went with A
c plus an above average off season when you waved
and stretched the one hundred and sixty million dollars left
On Damien Li like that's an. Accomplishment and it's more
so LIKE i could easily see them us doing a
regrade and looking back saying If giannis is still, here
re signs like we didn't give this a high enough.

(02:13:28):
GRADE i don't know how good they're gonna be in
the context of The Eastern. CONFERENCE i worry about the,
offense LIKE i think they have a chance to be
really good. Defensively The Ryan robins deal excellent piece of
business for. Them maybe you get enough, shooting like Having
Gary Tran junior, There but like the fact That Kyle
kuzma might be their second option Or Kevin Porter junior
might be their SECOND i don't feel great about.

Speaker 2 (02:13:48):
It and if you were gonna go to.

Speaker 1 (02:13:50):
The lengths that you did to to Keep, giannest but
like that money that you have on your books now
from The Damian lillard wave and, stretch you would have
liked to have seen them address that a little more.
Capably but what they did do now they're all player,
options but they're all cheap.

Speaker 2 (02:14:04):
Enough that you could get rid of.

Speaker 1 (02:14:05):
Them probably you're super flexible next offseason as. Well and
So turner is one Of we went through the definitive,
list which like the real list Was, Turner porzeingis And
Chris bouchet were the only bigs that are like perfect
fits next To. Gianni's you got one of those three
because Like, Brook lopez is no longer perfect in that, regard.

Speaker 3 (02:14:23):
He's a backup now probably, right LIKE i.

Speaker 1 (02:14:25):
Mean or even if he's, not even you want to
add him to the, list there's still like only five
guys on it at. Most so and by the, way
The turner deal like four for one, hour, sure like
that's not even a bad. Deal it's not, like, oh
they had to give him thirty million dollars a.

Speaker 3 (02:14:38):
Year, well because when you, say, like, well what what's
a comp for, him it's like there's two in the
league and and one of printer and that's. It they're
just just like, yeah so, again, YEAH i think you
said it right up, front like getting above average grades
in a season in an off season where you just
burned one hundred and sixteen million dollars and basically like

(02:14:59):
how not quite a starter's salary and dead money every
year for the next Five like The, bucks they came
out of this as well as you could given what
they had available resource.

Speaker 2 (02:15:12):
Wise do you have anything? Else are you ready to
take us out of?

Speaker 3 (02:15:14):
HERE i think that's more than enough from under three,
hours look at. US i don't know what last year,
was it was probably pretty.

Speaker 2 (02:15:20):
Close one of ours was three. HOURS i think it
might have been The.

Speaker 3 (02:15:23):
West that's.

Speaker 2 (02:15:24):
Stupid, yeah we'll go for when we do The. West,
yeah not.

Speaker 3 (02:15:28):
Enough thanks everybody for, listening for Watching Rate. Review subscribe
to all those things on the YouTube's you? CAN i
you know What, DAN i did give hype? POINTS i, okay,
GOOD i gave it TO. A i think it was
The blazers. Podcast so just To tara And rose apparently
THINK i don't understand the hype. THING i don't think
there's is there a finite amount of hype That i'm

(02:15:49):
allowed TO i.

Speaker 2 (02:15:50):
Think per video you can hype it once If i'm not.

Speaker 3 (02:15:52):
Mistake, okay We i'm gonna hpe it. All i'm gonna
hype all of. Them what else it's? Been it feels
like it's been forever SINCE i got to do. This
what else DO i usually? Say? Dan?

Speaker 2 (02:16:03):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (02:16:04):
Subscriber you subscribe YouTube? Podcast discord podcast? Description oh, yeah,
yeah that's.

Speaker 1 (02:16:11):
Enough competition gonna be starting probably In, october so join
the discord for.

Speaker 3 (02:16:16):
That where's the link for?

Speaker 2 (02:16:18):
That?

Speaker 3 (02:16:18):
Dan YouTube and podcast? Description? THERE i remember to say.

Speaker 2 (02:16:21):
THAT i hype hype. IT i no longer FAVORITE i hype.

Speaker 3 (02:16:24):
It can we hype? Things just in? General hype The west.
Grades when we do, THOSE i guess in a week
or so those are coming up and we will go
for hours on. Those, yeah that's gonna do. It thanks,
Everybody thank You dan for putting together beautiful slides uh
and helping me reapings Shouts Franklin Keen, Apologies Jared allen