Hardwood Knocks Takeover: The Future Of NBA Parity

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
What is up, Fellasick goes, I am Dan for Valley,
coming at you with my one, my only, my certified
fantabulous go is mister Grant Hugh's time for another round
of hashtag w j AQ. We're just asking questions. We
cannot be held responsible for what those questions lead to.
The question of the week is not to be over dramatic,

(00:25):
but does the fate of NBA parody rest with one team? Grant?
And that one team is your Los Angeles Clippers. You're
running the Clippers there, you're a Clippers fan. I mean
the Warriors are kind of you know, they don't defend anymore,
according to Jimmy Butler. So is that question dramatic? Is
what we need to set out and why is it
a question at all? But we probably need to start

(00:46):
with this is why we're asking the questions. The Clippers
are not good at the moment. They are very old.
We knew this coming in, but everyone getting and playing
very old at the same time does not seem except
for James Harden apparently, who is been by and large
spectacular this season. Not something everyone saw coming or at
least didn't expect. Oklahoma City controls the next two Clippers

(01:10):
first round picks, So they're going to get this season's
and they're also this isn't talked about enough either, is
they're also going to get twenty twenty seven. If it's bad,
they have the right to swap. It's part of that
they have all these we won't complicate it for everybody,
but Denver's pick could be outgoing since they own the
right to Denver's pick in twenty twenty seven at top
five protection. But the Clippers essentially can have the twenty

(01:33):
six Clippers pick that's just outright no protections on it,
and then they have the ability to swap in twenty
twenty seven. So if the Clippers are bad, which as
of right now they are bad, and we're talking about
if this season ended today, they're going to have a
thirty percent chance of landing inside the top four of
the lottery ors or so there is a not insignificant

(01:57):
chance that the Clippers are going to end up sending
Oklahoma City a top five pick in one of the
next two drafts. Grant and what I want to start
before getting into the Clippers and whether they can turn
this around. What are the implications of that happening? And
I mean that in a sense of you can look
at it through and we should where does one of

(02:19):
these picks land? And looking at the twenty twenty six
class specifically, could you imagine just giving Okac cam Boozer
or aj Dibinsaz is absolutely terrifying. But it's also the
idea of just giving Okac a top ten pick is
kind of.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Insane, it is, and so it is a hyperbolic sort
of question to ask. But I think the reason it's
not just completely unhinged is that it's not like, well,
if sure boy would be nice if T Mex got
an extra or it seems unfair that T Max is
getting just another A good team is getting another crack

(02:56):
at like a franchise cornerstone type guy, which is what
you know, we're talking in extremes, but like that's on
the table if you get a top what you know,
if you're high in the lottery, the thing is the thunder.
This isn't an issue if the thunder aren't like this
level of good which is coming off the title set
the point differential record, smoking that point differential record this

(03:18):
year so far having lost one time as we're recording this,
so like It's not just a very good team getting
another bite at the apple. It's a team that like
as it is. If not if we didn't have any
of this draft pick stuff as a potential outcome, we'd
still be talking about have the Thunder ruined parody or

(03:39):
something like that, because they are so young, because they
have their three core guys locked down, because they have
movable money else Like, it's just that's the that's the
element of this is the Thunder are so good that
almost any little bit of help they get feels like
it might tip things into sort of uncomfortable territory for
a league that has achieved the goal of parody and

(03:59):
at least in terms of like who's winning titles, right,
do get some usual suspects at the top of the standings,
but that's just always going to happen. But but the league,
you know, has whether you're talking about the waiting of
the lottery odds or the play in tournament, or to
discourage tanking and kind of keep more teams grouped in
the middle, like goal achieved with respect to parody and
a lot of respects, and this would potentially kind of

(04:22):
cut against that. So I think for me, it's just
the fact that it is this Thunder team specifically makes
this more relevant, more interesting issue than if it were
just some other team that I don't know what what
if it was the Nuggets or something, you know that
that might have a crack at.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
These player because they're they're already kind of seeing some
of the problems where Aaron Gordon being injured right now,
Christian Brown is younger. But you're paying these guys and
there are I think there are two dangers for the
rest of the league where you say, well, okay, s
these window is going to be open for eternity is
deliberately over the top. But then you start to sit here,
we all we me and you have preached this a ton.

(05:02):
Something always changes in the NBA, not like we thought
the Brooklyn Nets during the KD Kyrie error were going
to be with James, Harm're going to be inevitable at
some point, even if it was shorter. That just implodes
the Celtics. Their windows been open ended. But they're going
through a gap year. No one would have thought that
the Pacers would have to go through a gap year
immediately after making consecutive conference finals and NBA Finals appearance.

(05:24):
Something always happens, injuries, teams get expensive. The Thunder seem
uniquely inoculated against all of this, with these picks coming
down the pipeline for a multitude of factors. One of
them is playing out in real time. Their second best
player as we record this has yet to play this season,
and all those numbers you outlined about one of the
best starts in NBA history is still taking place. The

(05:45):
other thing here is they could be in the Second
Apron as soon as next season. They don't have to
be if they don't want to. They have the Isaiah
Harnstein team option, and he's integral to the team. But
one maybe you keep him cheaper, you could get rid
of other guys. You're still going to be the odds
on favorite to win a title if you're relatively healthy,
even if you lose him. The other thing, though, is

(06:07):
because they have these inbound picks going into the Second
Apron if they're willing to pay. Isn't that, Oh, your
draft pick is frozen. Oh it gets moved to the
end of the first round. Guess where the Thunder are
going to be drafting for the foreseeable future anyway, grant
the end of the first round and then finally, so
you get to bring in these cost controlled prospects, which
should in theory, Let's say j dubb Chet and Shay

(06:30):
Gillis Alexander, this team isn't willing to pay all of
them over the next three to five years that you
lose someone Well, this is the higher end of it,
but if you have the chance to develop a Boozer
or Dabnza, that becomes kind of terrifying. I think you
can even We've yet to see Nicola topic play during
the regular season, but that's someone else they kind of
have waiting in the wings. And you can also argue

(06:52):
they don't need a look at where they found a
lot of these guys. Jalen Williams was who's in All
NBA player already, they got him a number twelve, Kayson
Wallace was at number ten, and then you start to
look at kind of the moves they make on the
margins to where it's all like Chris Youngblood went undrafted
and got minutes on this team. He's played more minutes
than Carter Bryant this year. Brooks Barnhearzer was taking forty

(07:15):
fourth overall this past June's And if you watched him
during Summer League. He has the outlines of, oh, this
is overall a guy, AJ Mitchell. Where was he drafted
thirty eighth overall and so first overall, fourth overall, tenth overall,
forty seventh overall. The thunder have proven that they can
find dudes. And if you give them enough higher end shots,

(07:36):
and the Clippers are maybe going to give them two
that are in the lottery, We're not even talking top
five picks necessarily. That is harrowing. And I think you
could even you kind of alluded to this already. You
could even make the case that even if these picks
don't turn into stars because of AJ Mitchell, because of
Big Jaalen Williams just finds like that because of if

(07:57):
Barnheiser turns into something, or even with Kayson Wallace, does
he become cheaper than Alex Caruso on his next deal
or something. They're just built to navigate this anyway. And
the final thing before throwing it back to you, Graham,
what happens if OKC just sits here and says we're
gonna roll with check, JDub and Shay until the wheels
fall off and we're gonna move the parts around them.

(08:19):
Do you realize how much more dangerous those draft picks
that they're getting from the Clippers become then when you
don't need any of them to be the guy?

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, it's it's hard to I think I think maybe
just to sort of like tamp down the panic level.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Sorry, do you view this as a legitimate existential crisis
for parody?

Speaker 2 (08:44):
I don't think so. And even even if even if
it is, that's okay. I like dynasties like so, I
kind of I'm kind of gonna win either way as a.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Do you why why would you say that you likednasty?

Speaker 2 (08:59):
You know, it's kind of kind of my favorite thing. Well,
so here's what I think. I think. One, it's very
very hard to be as good as the thunder are
right now, and so, just like law of averages, they
can't be this good for that long just because it's impossible,
Like you just can't stay at a seventy win pace forever.
What I think these extra picks might do is keep

(09:22):
the floor exceptionally high for way longer than it should be,
because you can use these to offload money you maybe
eventually don't want, Like what if one of your expensive
guys gets hurt and this is just dead money. Now, well,
having extra first to move that helps. What if Alex
Caruso gets old, Hardenstein doesn't fit anymore. Now those are
bad examples because their contracts are manageable and aren't forever.

(09:43):
But you can move things around. You You can supplement
the rest of the core with new pieces using those.
The other thing you can do is like just take
the nets in this past draft for examples, like, well,
they're not going to use all these, they'll surely trade
a couple for like more long shot down the road assets.
The Thunder could just keep rolling these things over if
they want to, right, So it's like, yeah, you know,

(10:04):
maybe maybe they're maybe they're a second Apron team for
too long, and they they have to sacrifice if they
surrender a draft pick or they get it frozen or whatever.
It's like, well, we can trade this year's for maybe
a higher ceiling one in three years out or four
years beyond when this one's gonna convey, Like you can
just kick the can down the road a little bit
and assure that, you know, maybe we can't stay at

(10:26):
a seventy five win pace for like five years in
a row, but we might be able to stay at
like fifty five indefinitely if we just keep replenishing things
and keep kind of like stretching all these extra picks
and assets out a little farther, which, like normally for
a small market team like this, you might say, like, well,
that ought to be the goal, because that's just you
want to stay relevant and be like a top five,
top six playoff team for as long as you can.

(10:49):
That feels like aiming low for as good as the
Thunder are now. But I do think it just extends
whatever you call this run. It doesn't have to be
like their massive title favorites every year, but it might
be like they're top four team forever just because you can,
you know, for the next ten years, because you can
just use these things to kind of extend your window
of not contention, but like relevance. Maybe I don't know

(11:12):
that that is like that's easy. Yeah, spursying like where
you make the playoffs all, you know, every year for
fifteen or something like that. That that feels like, which again,
that was fun too. I didn't mind that when the
Spurs were just a clockwork, you know, relevant team that
it works out well. Now the other twenty nine teams
might not feel the same way. But if you don't
have skin in the game, I think this is not

(11:33):
a bad thing.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
This may be one of my most incendiary takes, but
that spurs run feels like the floor the way this
team is set up. Because even with because even with
almost so the JDub injury or the injuries to start
last year too, how the development there, because one of
the questions should be moving forward, Well, it gets tough

(11:54):
to develop. We're seeing this in some other cases with
lower end youngsters. But how do you balance prosper development
with trying to chase the title. Well, if you're gonna
blow out a bunch of teams, you know how to
use garbage time or the Thunder have just been able
to Aj Mitchell before he got injured last year as
a rookie was part of the rotation. Yep, he was
part of the Thunder rotation. And so if they're going

(12:16):
to continue to be able to find the developmental opportunities
to where they're able to make calls they understand, Oh,
this is what we have in Aj Mitchell, this is
what we have in j Will Now complications like Nicolae Topitch,
maybe missing what both of his first two seasons in
the league. Those will always come up. And I'm not
saying that every draft pick they make is going to

(12:36):
be a home run. It's also easy for me to
sit here and say a two decade run of just
being hyper relevance to the floor when they've yet to
suffer that first bit of collateral damage of how good
they are, and that will come. We don't Josh Giddy,
I guess was the first part. But they had decided
that wasn't about money as much as we think we're

(12:57):
better built if we move him for Alex Caruster will
win the They were right. I mean, Josh Getty's played
very well to start the season in Chicago this year,
but they were right to make that call. If there
comes a point to where Hartenstein might be a potential
not crossroads, but that's a pivot point. If they decide
he's too expensive to keep, perhaps the core is able

(13:18):
to react well to that, just because he wasn't there
from day day zero. But if Cason Wallace gets too expensive,
if aj Mitchell, when that highway robbery of a contract ends,
if someone else, if it comes a time where they
decided or if they have to move on from Kenrich
Williams Grant. He's going to get a statue, I woud
assume somewhere in Oklahoma City. So that would be the

(13:38):
variable that we aside from banking on injuries. And I
think what the next topic would be, well, are we
forgetting about other teams that are just going to be
in the mix to challenge the peak version of thunder?
But I think the one variable we haven't talked that
yet was well, what happens when they make the first
controversial collateral damage call? They have yet to need to

(13:58):
do that.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Maybe the segue is one of the teams that was
sort of similarly positioned and had to make decisions like
the ones you're talking about is the Houston Rockets because
like they did sign Jalen like, so there were the
talk was like, how are they gonna pay all these guys?
Right they Thompson, Shangoon, Green, Easton. I'm now Jabari Smith

(14:20):
reached there's several Jalen Green's gone. Uh Tar Easton doesn't
have a new deal yet. Jabari Smith signed up what
I think everybody most people agree is kind of a
bargain deal. They moved one of the picks to get
Kevin Durrant, like, so they had to kind of make
some of these shanguon they got. Now like this is
a little different because the Rockets kept getting guys on
blow market deals and the Thunder of kind of paid

(14:41):
market rates for their three big names. Well can I
push back there for a second, Well, are you gonna
mention the Jadub thing?

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Well they did. They with chat they didn't have to
get the all NBA language in there, and with with
j Dubb, they knew what was going. I know he
suffered complications, but that very much feels like they allowed
the agent to win the press release.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Which great, it makes Williams look better, like, well we
thought he was a super Max guy. But so Houston
is one of those teams I think you would cite
that has a young core that might be there to
challenge the Thunder for quite a while. But they're also
an example of like you can navigate this. This also
cuts the other way because it shows the Thunder like, yeah,
you can just navigate some of these like who do

(15:26):
you pay and how much situations as they arise and
come out like I don't know better in the end
for it, because this is again the Rockets are playing
without Van Vliet and that's forced some of the younger
guys to stretch a little bit, and so like they're
one of the first ones that comes to mind as
far as who's going to be challenging the Thunder going forward,
challenging the Thunder's efforts to destroy parody going forward?

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Right?

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Who is that the first team that comes to mind
for you? Or are there more?

Speaker 1 (15:50):
I think it's Houston just because of how high level
the because I think you could sit here and say
my answer would be Shangoun. But there be a debate
if you said, fast forward three years, who's the best
player on the Rockets? You have Aman Thompson, Reed Shepherd
maybe gets thrown into that mix. It's not gonna be
Kevin Durant, He's not their best player now, and then Shangun.

(16:10):
With other teams, you don't necessarily have that debate, and
the Spurs would just be the team that I would
name next because Wemby exists, But we still don't We
need more intel on Steph Castle. What does it look
like when he actually gets to play with darn Fox
and then Dylan Harper as well. But that's another team
to where it's they still have assets if they want
to go out and make another move. They have what

(16:30):
is a top five NBA player right now, a guy who,
if he plays in sixty five games will probably enough
will probably set the record for the most defensive Players
of the Year awards won in just having Wemby and
so the ability to move around that. But they're so
I know they started off the season like Gangbusters, but
don't they feel is there another team? My question, is

(16:51):
there another team you view on Houston's level moving forward
that you believe could consistently challenge? Okay, see, I.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Mean it depends on how far forward your because you mentioned, well,
the Spurs are there because of Wembin Yama, then the
Nuggets have to be there because of Jokic. That that's
just like on a five year time horizon, like maybe
the Nuggets are there, but probably not right, it's more
like three. I think you could say Jokic three years
from now. Like if Yoki is the best player in
the world still, it's like, well, all right, yeah, of

(17:18):
course he is. But five gets gets a little harry
and we start talking about five like Shay is the
only guy that's gonna be Like maybe like late prime
at that point. Everybody the other I mean, you know
everybody else might still is going to still be in
their twenties, right, Actually Jadob is like sneaky older than
you think, but like not late prime in five years. Yeah,

(17:40):
I you have to You can't find another team with
like a similar collection of young players. Maybe Detroit that's
the one I was gonna say, because it's like Cunningham's
young enough during Asar Thompson takes a leap ron Holland
learns to play offense like that. That's that's close. Like

(18:00):
Cleveland is going to age out, probably because Mitchell h
Garland health.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah, Garland can't stay healthy is the big thing.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
That's that's a good But you have the MOBILEI piece
where it's like, okay, he's the type of guy you
could see, not not on the Wemby level, but like,
well they have mobiley so they're relevant and dangerous.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah. See when you start to stretch it beyond the
two or three year windows where it gets done. Because
I was even gonna say Toronto with the way Scotty
Barnes is playing this year, but yeah, they're not the
youngest team.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
I mean. The thing is, though, how realistic is it
to think about anything in terms beyond a two or
three year window?

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Right?

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Because like you you just said, like things always change
two or three years ago, would you how hard would
we have laughed if Detroit had entered this conversation right, Like,
it's just like, I don't I know, we're trying to
look like operate on the thunders timeline, which like that
might be the maybe the Spurs, but Wemby's health is
who knows? The Thunder Like the only team you can

(18:58):
think about five years from now, everybody else else is
just gonna look so different. There'll be some team that
if we mentioned them right now, it would be laughable,
like Washington, Like, I don't know in five years where
who can say, maybe alex aar is a two time
MVP by then or something. Just anything's possible.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
It's but I think what's also tough too, is that
even if we were to stick within the more trunk
caated window, let's use this season, this season as an example,
before these picks with the Clippers have conveyed what are
the team's finals conference on whatever that you would give
a realistic chance of beating Okac four times and seven
tries right now, I think there's Denver. I'll give you mine,

(19:37):
and then I feel like Houston might belong there. They
feel is I think Rejeppard needs to like really kind
of he's been great, but probably needs to be even
better after that. I'm not taking anybody in the East
to give it. Okay, see a series right now, I
don't see the team maybe, yeah, Cleveland is the outlook
is muddy just because Darius Garland has not played enough

(19:58):
and they've looked bombed offensively when he's on the court.
But that's what's also so even if we're using the
two or three year window, like what are the teams
that you think are the Spurs need to make another move,
I would say before they're there or Dylan Harper, Steph
Castle go.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Kaboom yeah, which and at that then you're just talking.
We're they're the puncher's chance category, right, Well, they have
Wemby and like he might just be unsolvable and you know,
with a little bit of luck. But yeah, I know,
I think you're right. I think the list is really short.
I do think, like, well, what do you think about
the idea that like how relevant are these picks in
the two to three year window we're talking about, like,

(20:36):
do you think they can actually like what's that?

Speaker 1 (20:40):
That's what's disturbing to me, is that I see because they.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Don't need them in this short time horizon.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
And so if they're gonna so work. That's what allows
us to look ahead, is that if you believe that
they will be able to develop players while still being good.
If you give them let's say both of these picks
land in the top ten, and we need to get
to the clippers of it all now shortly. You're gonna
tell but what percentage chance let's say both of those
picks land in the top ten, what percentage chance would
you give one of them of turning it at at

(21:09):
least one of them turning into a Oh, that guy's
eventually going to be an All Star. I might go
over fifty percent.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Well, that's the thing that we haven't really talked about it.
It's like there's a Nushman Jang pick in there. So
the thunder don't get them all, you know, they don't
get them all.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Right, but but hashtag poku, yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Poku another one. So they don't always do it quite
you know, perfectly, But yeah, I mean, if you give
them two shots at it. They're getting one. They're getting
one guy that's at least like a plus starter on
a normal team.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Right, Because I was gonna say, who's the top ten
pick that they've missed on, you could say Josh Giddy,
But they got Alex Caruzzo for him, and Josh might
make an All Star team.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Right this year, it's hard. It's hard to find that guy.
Maybe impossible.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
My only final question on this, and this is a
broader stroke inquiry, could you see this reaching the level
of players are looking to join up to localize in
a location or to actively beat the thunder or do
you think because of the way that team salary structures
have become And also just I think players one when

(22:15):
you I think players more than ever realize when you're
playing with a cluster of stars how much it can
do to your role. And I don't think everybody wants
to be marginalized that way. But just as an example,
looking at what Golden State is right now, if these
players were in their prime, though, would this have been
our team's actively gonna or like what happened in Phoenix,
what happened in Brooklyn is at one point it felt

(22:37):
like Big Three's were being formed because that felt like
the model. Now I'm just wondering, even if it's two superstars,
might we see these elite mega NBA players cluster to say, no,
we need to take down the thunder. This is year
seven of them just annihilating the rest of the league.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
That's interesting. You mean, you could certainly imagine, well, I
don't know, just to pick two guys that ran it's like, well,
Anthony Edwards or something like, we were not quite good
enough in Minnesota and then I don't know, superstar. I can't.
I don't want to like start any like hypothetical, but
like you know, Kid Cunningham's like, ah, we're pretty good,
but we just we can't quite I.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Need to go play with Wemby or right.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, So I think that's a possibility. I think that's
gonna happen anyway, because that's just been the way things
have happened, regardless of what the CBA has looked like
over the last twenty years.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Has it ever happened, it's a team ever actively been
built to take down one because you can't. It's not
it's the Rockets with the Warriors would be the answer.
But it's irrational to say, well, they were only built
to beat the Warriors. They were built to contend, Yes,
but they were built in the image of contending during
the Warriors era. And as we've seen, teams try to
carve out these deeper rotations, in part because of the thunder,

(23:51):
in part because of the pacers. I think the rockets
have actually played a big role in that too. I
just think that we might see more outliers, Like there
might be a franchise that has the maybe one superstar
that has the pull to really reel and another and
they might whether it's for one or two years, they
might just do things that seem reckless and unthinkable because
of the thunder, which I don't know that Again, I

(24:13):
think Houston and Golden State is the closest we have
to an analog on that.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Right, and like, think about what the alternative to that is, Like, Man,
the thunder are really good, we better just kind of
lay back for a while and just wait it out. Right, Like,
nobody's gonna do that. Nobody, nobody's gonna like you. Just
you can't operate as a franchise that way. No, And see,
like I think.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
You're saying when you're saying teams such as the Wizards
really need like this is they have cap space this summer,
you need to go for it. That is something you
also have to consider to say.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Well why, I think I think the why is because
you really still don't know what's gonna happen, Like what
if Jada can never shoot again because of the risk,
and what if Check gets I mean, Chet's been hurt
two of his three years, right, like, yeah, what you know?
So the thunder approving that, like they can they're fine
without one of their three guys if they lose two.

(25:04):
So like the Wizards is the extreme case right where
it's like, you guys are so far away quote unquote
going for it is crazy.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
I'm I'm not trying to advocate that regular seasons all
of a sudden can't matter because of the thunder. I
hate chess, but I like the chess element of it.
You have to try and think all these steps ahead
to figure out like what made you don't know? I
don't want to purposely pull back, but you also do
have to, I would think, evaluate your moves and direction
against Well, this is this is the benchmark, right like,

(25:32):
this is the standard bearer for title contention right now.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Don't you think that we got to move on? But
don't you think that thinking about the Thunder that way
is more relevant to like, it's deadline time. We need
a guy. This needs to be someone that can be
on the floor against the Thunder and how they play,
as opposed to like these are the types of players
we're gonna draft, and like this is the type of
team we're gonna build. As a as a rebuilder, I

(25:56):
think it's more of a like, oh, we look like
we are gonna run into these guys. We need our
Alex Caruso, or we need someone that can slow you
know what I mean. I think that's when you see
the them thought about that way.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
I think in the early stages of a rebuild, sure,
because to use what's a team that, I mean the
Pelicans as an example. Maybe they don't know they're rebuilding yet,
but Derek Queen and Jeremiah Fears both look really good.
You don't take those players at the start of a
rebuild because you think that the Thunder are going to
be the standard Bear in five to seven years when
you're fully cooked and ready to go. At the same time,

(26:32):
I think if we're if we fast forward two or
three years and this is just the Thunder are still
really good and it doesn't look like they've now drafted
another big name or two, or just look like they're
set up to continue doing what they're doing now. I
think it changes, man. I think it not the rebuilding teams,
but we might see more wholesale like off season stuff,

(26:52):
not just trade deadline decisions off season stuff. Those directions
are made then based off a lot of what the
Thunder are doing.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
I would normally disagree, but this is an extreme case,
so it's I don't. I think it's much more plausible
than it has been in a long time.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Here's the question then, though, Can the Clippers do their
part turn things around and not make it easier for
the Thunder to last? And I think it might be
best framed through this prison. We could look at this
season and talk about what a disaster it is, and
we absolutely should. There's why would they be any better
next year? They're not. They're not getting any younger, and

(27:29):
it seems like they're kind of conserving flexibility to be
be spend heavy in the summer of twenty twenty seven.
This might be the the middle I mean, the draft class. Ever,
it's vaunted, so that matters. But this could be when
you look at where the pick lands, this could be
the middle ground outcome to where all this this is
like a next year is going to be four right right?

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, No, the arrow on the Clippers is angled down
that because they're coming in there were old, they all
got older. They're slow, like the the the route out
of this is what like Zubots is the guy you
would trade that you might get, Like, do you trade
Zubots to the thunder now and just get your pick back?
Like is that they do that? Zubots is better than

(28:13):
Hart and Sign. I don't know, like, but yeah, you're right,
like the I don't see a way out for the
Clippers other than the old guys just play better because
you can't, like, what are you trading to improve? You're
already just all in on now based on the age
of the roster and the types of players that they
brought in. So you're not trading your way out of this.

(28:34):
It just the guys. And Kawai came back just a
day before we recorded this and looked like pretty close
to Kawhi, So you know you've you've got right, Yeah,
looks man, imagine how good. They you know, Okay, well,
we'll see if he plays three out of every five
games going forward that that would be a pretty good benchmark.
Hard but they're terrible when he's been great. So what

(28:57):
do you do there?

Speaker 1 (28:58):
I was gonna ask, let's say they can trade two
first round picks. I think one of them might need
to be conditional, but twenty thirty and twenty thirty two.
You can include a swap in there as well. If
you were able to get let's say, LaMelo Ball or
Trey Young or name. I don't even know what the
I mean. The Clippers feel like they need so many things.
I don't know what other If they get Giannis, it's

(29:20):
a no. I'm trying to think of a player that
would be more debatable. I one don't think they have
enough to get any of those players anyone I just named.
But even if you said, if you could get Zion
from the Pelicans, I don't even know what you need
to give up a first round pick for that. At
this point, do you just do it because or no?
You have to think for them specifically. You look, no,
we've these picks, those outlays are there. We're not throwing

(29:43):
good money after bed because whatever you do, unless you
believe that Trey Young or LaMelo Ball or Zion for
some reasons the bridge to the future, and you're going
to rebuild through free agency, which, by the way, basically
since the Clippers did it and even that required a trade,
weren't really no team is being built through free Who
was the last was it Brooklyn when they got Kyrie
and Kevin Durant the same summer?

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Was the last profile? For sure?

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Just the Knicks got Jalen Brunson is the lone name
they got in free agent. The rest is trade. So
that's the risk there is that for the rest of
the league. This feels yeah, okay, the Clippers like let's go,
Like you need to make this move, of course. But
if I'm the Clippers, I'm like, no.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
No, you. If they you're I agree. If if they
make a move, it has to be because wow, this
team is old and we need something to bridge us
to the next, to the post Hard and post Kawhi
stage of our existence. It can't be like making a
trade so you're better, So the pick you convey to
another team is worse, is like pure insanity. That pick's gone,

(30:45):
Like it doesn't the Ki doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Make the move.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Okay, great, so that's how you're justifying it. Yeah, no,
I think that's not the Clippers. You can't just say, well,
the Clippers aren't like a team that should be making trades. Sure,
but it has to be for someone. It can't. The
outgoing picks cannot have any factor. It cannot be a
factor whatsoever in the trades that they make. They're They're gone,

(31:11):
don't they don't exist anymore.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Then this is the final question for them, just based
off how the roster's currently constructed, baking in the fact
that we don't foresee them even if they could making
what would be considered a headlining deal. Right now as
we're recording this, they've been hovering between the sixth, seventh
and eighth best lottery odds. Did you expect them to
finish the season? I'll set the over under of lottery

(31:34):
odds at the seventh best lottery odds, better or worse
than that?

Speaker 2 (31:38):
So are they the seventh word? Are they the twenty
third best team in the league at the end of
the season. I don't think. I think they'll be better
than that.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
I do do.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
A lot of that has to do with other teams
that I think will be worse, that have outperformed expectations,
like I still think your Boston's are just come on, fellas,
like this this respect the restart is pretty good, but
like I just you don't want this. This isn't worth it,
you know. So I think I think, you know, Dallas

(32:09):
is down there, but Dallas needs to keep its pick.
There's lots of teams that I think should be much
more motivated to get real bad as soon as possible.
And the Clippers, I mean.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
The Jazz front office has to be furious right.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Now, right, I know, But the Clippers just like you know,
maybe all these maybe Brook Lopez is really truly done,
and Chris Paula has announced officially he is going to
be done. Just these they all can't stay this bad
all season. So I think Clippers will be a little better.
I think the teams around them and slightly above them
will be a little worse, and they'll they'll narrowly avoid

(32:40):
that seventh worst spot.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
And I have a quick soapboxy thing, please, I think
it's unfair to relitigate why the thunder in this position
and why the Clippers are now if you want to,
there's the James Harden trade. That that is debatable, but
if you look in hindsight, it's not unfair to say
this is going to go down as one of the
worst trades in NBA history. It absolutely is. But I
don't think we get to I mean, I appreciate the jokes,

(33:04):
but I don't think we get to troll the Clippers
for making the move because this wasn't even a Remember
when Kevin Durant was traded from the Nets to the Suns.
I think you and I both when we did our reaction,
pod landed on that's a lot. It's debatable. We probably
still would have made it, but we don't understand why
the Suns didn't negotiate harder when that happened with you

(33:26):
got Kawhi MPG that summer for the Clippers. Nobody was
saying that they recognized that it was a lot. I
think people said, well, you don't care because they'll either
still be good. Look at Kawhi and PG, look at
this is the model the two all NBA wings, or
they said you might be bad, but fuck it because
this is going to be worth it. It ended up

(33:47):
being a bad trade. I didn't see and I if
you have receipts of yourself saying it, feel free to
send it to us in discorder somewhere. I don't remember
a single soul saying they would not have made that trade.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
I agree, and I think it's just the Shay part
of it, right, because at the time, again, show me
the receipts, there were I'm sure there were people that
were like, this guy might be an All Star or
you know, he I really like him, he's he's he's
Quietly nobody was like, you know who the centerpiece of
this deal is. It's it's Shay, Like nobody was saying that.

(34:20):
So if you knew that the right If you knew that,
then great, But no one foresaw an MVP best player
on a championship team future for him, so right, and
and from the Clipper side, it's like, yeah, you give
up a guy and Shay that you like, and you
pay the picks at costs to get Kawhi, Leonard and
Paul George. So it's not just it's a it's a

(34:43):
bad trade that like full stop, it's a bad trade
because the result it was. It wasn't even like the
sticker shock was there just because of the number of picks,
but it wasn't one that. There's so many other trades
that were more obviously questionable. This one has just worked
out poor for the Clippers. And last thing I'd say
is maybe betting on the health of Kawhi and Paul.

(35:06):
George was like that was your core mistake. But at
the time it was like, these guys are great and
they're exactly the types of players you need, and you
get two of them, you give up what it costs.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
I don't know. Yeah, I think that's the I think
that's the right place to land another edition of stat padding.
We're gonna be bouncing all over the spectrum of topics here, Grant,
where would you like to start for this one?

Speaker 2 (35:33):
I am very, very interested in some trade chatter, so
maybe we should start there.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, LaMelo baw might be a little bit unhappy, So
let's play who says no LaMelo Ball? Edition will take
turns exchanging Grant. I'm gonna start okay, who says no
LaMelo Ball? For Jonathan Kaminga, Brandon Pajemski Buddy healed Gary
Payton a second and two first round.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
HM, man, if you wait like another two weeks and
the Warriors keep playing like they're playing. I think nobody
says no, but I think the Warriors say yes because
that's a lot of fun. So I guess Charlotte says
no by default. But man, that's what an interest like.
Maybe they get the guy that they should have taken

(36:23):
way back instead of Jonathan, instead of James Wiseman. Just
everybody ends up where they're supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
You don't think Joe lacub comes in and vetos this
because you're giving away two future All Stars and JK
and Pods.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
I think LaMelo would just instantly become a Lake Up
guy and then it all be fine.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
I don't know what the depth would look like. You
still have the Anthony Melton, you still have Moses Moody,
Al Horford, Draymond, Jimmy Butler, Steph. I'm it's not the
most durable team, but I would absolutely but shout out
to a video editor of Hardwin Knox Andrew for coming up.
He sent that to me and said, I want to
see what your Grant's reaction is to it, and I said,
I think it's gonna break his brain. But you were

(37:01):
pretty on board with that.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
I mean, I just know that what they've got right
now isn't quite enough and they are gonna trade cominga anyway,
So why not? And what have I said has been
the Warriors' biggest limitation for a couple of years now,
just secondary creation. I think LaMelo might help, just to
touch in the shot creation department. All right, I've got
one for you, Dan, LaMelo ball for Tyler Hero, Casper

(37:26):
s Yacuccionis and the Miami Heat take the protections off
of the lottery protected pick they already owe Charlotte in
twenty twenty seven. Who says no?

Speaker 1 (37:37):
I think Miami probably says no to that. And I
think that's right because if you're Charlotte, you kind of
know LaMelo Ball's availability, and so if you know you're
gonna get an unprotected pick from the Heat next summer,
but you also kind of look at the depth they
have and they've still been pretty good without Hero this year.
I think I think maybe both sides say no. I
think both sides say I think, don't you think Charlotte

(37:58):
will want more than that Lamello trade.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Well, that's interesting. I think both sides do say no.
But I was going to go with, well, I think
maybe the Heat want to see a longer stretch with
Tyler Herro before they may pull any triggers here, Plus, like,
can LaMelo ball play this new screenless style that the
heat play? Does he need a ball screen to be
his best? I don't know. It'd be a weird, weird adjustment,
weird experiment.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Who says no Lamello ball for Scoot Henderson, Robert Williams,
the third Matisse Thibel and two first round picks.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
I kind of think Charlotte says no to that. The
two first are intriguing, But at this point, with Scoot
and the hamstring and the underwhelming first couple of years,
we're still kind of Scoot guys around here. But I
don't know if you're getting enough as Charlotte here. Williams
has his own injury concerns and thigh will is. I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
I don't know if that's a value at it pure
salary filler ken Ard.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
I think I think Charlotte says no there.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
I agree Portland shold pounds on it. If it's I
think I like Scoot.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
But yeah, I'm so glad I get to administer this
one to you. This We've got a challenge trade alert.
We need a sound effect for that Ja Morant for
LaMelo Ball, that is the trade who says no.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
I think the Grizzlies say no. I don't think that
they should. I think the Hornets should say no. I
Ja Morant is an exceptional player. The Grizzlies since he's
coming to the NBA have had an elite offense when
he's on the court. I have not seen his game
expand enough to think that someone who is so still
reliant on quickness and athleticism. He's a smart passer, Don't

(39:34):
get me wrong. I just don't think between the defense,
the shaky jumper, and what does he look like in
two to three years athletically, he's not someone that I
want to be building my team around right now.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
I think that's right. I think for Charlotte's kind of
longer view timeline too, the agent curve for Jaw, which
you mentioned, has to be like just top of mind,
Like by the time Charlotte has a real team built,
what like, how good is Jaw when he's not as athletic.
I mean, he's already losing athleticism, so like, what does
that look like? I think I think Charlotte's Charlotte's gonna pass.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
On that one. Sound the challenge trade alert again. I'm
stealing this one. Domont is a bonus for LaMelo ball.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
The Kings should and would definitely should, probably would say
yes to this real quick. I think just Charlotte guards
Charlotte should say no. Well, just getting LaMelo ball in
there gives you like something to build around, and I
think that's what the King should be doing, is just
tearing it all the way down and trying to find

(40:34):
a new cornerstone and ball. Plenty of risk, plenty of
injury concerns. Never really seen him sustain things on a winner.
But man, that's just like you have something to sort
of orbit around as the Kings, which is what they're
gonna need. All right, I've got one for you here.
This is tough. There's a couple to look at. I'm
gonna give you the three teamer. The Chicago Bulls get

(40:58):
Anthony Davis, Dallas gets LaMelo Ball, Zach Collins, Charlotte gets
Deep Breath, Kobe White, Kevin Herder, Brandon Williams, an unprotected
Bulls pick, and the Lakers twenty twenty nine pick via Dallas.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
So Dallas is basically giving up the Lakers pick and
Anthony Davis to get LaMelo ball That seems bizarre, But
the Lakers pick in twenty twenty nine with Luca I
think Charlotte getting Kobe White and two and two picks
for LaMelo and then Brandon Williams is useful. I think

(41:36):
Dallas is probably the team that says no, right or
is it Chicago says yes, they're they're getting Anthony Davis
for a first round pick in Kobe White. I think
they wind up saying yes because of Chicago.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
I think too, we need to know if Dallas still
believes defense wins championships now the Nico Harrison has gone,
and if that stance has changed, maybe we're talking a
deal here. But if not, I don't think you're well.
You could still build a pretty good defense with what
Dallas has left over at Lamello, Right.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Like is insane? That's Pamelo. Yeah, I think Dallas. The
fact that you have to give up Anthony Davis in
a first round pick, though, is kind of a bummer
if you're there. Yep, final trade idea grant the Milwaukee
Bucks are gonna take a final swing. Kyle Kuzma Bobby
Portist an unprotected twenty thirty one first round pick and

(42:23):
an unprotected twenty thirty two first round swap for LaMelo
Ball and Mason Plumbley, who says, now, I.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Think Charlotte has to say yes to this. So I
guess just because you're you're buying, you're buying in on
the Bucks post Giannis or extreme decline Gianni's future, And
the only thing that might keep those picks from being really,
really good is LaMelo Ball is staying healthy. Like, I
think that's a bet Charlotte should be willing to make

(42:53):
if you're the Bucks. This is fascinating because in theory,
it's a little bit like the King's argument, where LaMelo
Balls in your new centerpiece. He's the guy that's gonna
be the guy after Giannis. I get that in theory,
But you're just the cupboards bear, and is LaMelo gonna
help Giannis chase the title in the next couple of years?
I don't that's a weird fit, right, We have to concede.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
If I'm the Bucks, I probably just do it. But
you know how I feel Aboutlamelo Ball. I think Charlotte
says no just because those picks are so far out.
Jeff Peterson, is he going to be the one making
them or what is your intention of using them? There
needs to be some type of a core player or
imminent pick coming back. So I like it less for
Charlotte than I do for because even if Jannis leaves
and you're Milwaukee, you could still view LaMelo as a

(43:37):
tent pole guy potentially.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Sure, that's how you know it's a good trade. As
we've each said, the opposite team would say no.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
All right, that does it for the LaMelo trades. Let's
talk this is. I think this is gonna be fun
and ultra difficult. Difficult gramp. So, who's the one NBA
player you'd pick to guard each of the top five
stars in the league. Is Once you select a defender,
he's off the board. So the top five player pool,

(44:06):
we'll just go through them one by one. I'll start
throwing it to you. Who's the one player you're picking
to defend Nikola Jokic?

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Okay, So this will seem counterintuitive at first, but I
am choosing Alex Caruso, who I will not really most
people would know. Well, Ruy does tie in here a
little bit because the Lakers kind of offered the theory
a little bit. So The reason I'm picking Kruso ultimately
is because he's the last thing that actually worked against Jokich,

(44:33):
because in Game seven of the Western Conference Semifinals last year,
the thunder just put Caruso on Jokic instead of kind
of using him as a helper, and so Jokic has
not technically had time to solve that, which he will,
but for the moment, it's the only thing we know
that has worked relatively well against Jokic. Obviously there's help coming,
but Caruso fronting him, getting up underneath him, nullifying the

(44:57):
two man game with Jamal Murray, which is critical because
he can just switch it. Uh. I think Caruso and
help is just the only thing we've seen work remotely.
Uh And until Yoki solves it, that's that's my default.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
That's I was not expected. I don't know who I
was expecting you to pick. It wasn't someone who's a
foot shorter than Nikola Jokic.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
No, and like one hundred pounds lad or two. But yeah,
sometimes you got to think outside the box with Jokic. Now,
do you want to nominate a Yokic defender? Would you
like me to give you another of the top five
that you've got to find the defender.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
No, I think we just have to move. That's the
gives the element. If we can't pick him twice, you.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Cannot use Alex Caruso and this would be awkward if
you did. To defend Shay Gil just Alexander. So who
are you picking?

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Lou Dort? Can we use their own too?

Speaker 2 (45:40):
No?

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah, So I'm curious if this will surprise you. I'm
gonna go with Tamani Kamara because I think with I
think with Shay, it's not just you need someone who
could keep pace with him and Tomany Kamara is basically
a five position defender. If you need someone who's not
going to come out of their shoes anytime he sort
of tries to draw contact, he's changing directions. He's just

(46:01):
so shifty and eccentric with the way that he moves.
I trust Tamani Kamara to be both versatile and disciplined
against him. And he's also not in fury. No.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
He is.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
He as strong as o Gian and Obi No, but
he's not someone that shake Gilders. Alexander should be able
to because Shay's kind of sneakily strong, especially if he's
able to use his off.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Arm YEP I like that one.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
So I get to throw you Gianni's attent to Kompo.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Okay, So I think it's Draymond, and the numbers kind
of back it up. Giannis has shot forty six percent
against Straymond fifty three point six true shooting in games
against Straymond. He's not being guarded exclusively by him. Under
twenty points a game for Rannest, which is like, you'll
take that. And I think Draymond is obviously like at

(46:46):
an athletic disadvantage, but he's not someone you're successfully gonna
drive straight through over and over again, because he will
get in position. He will he will ratchet up the
physicality to the point where like it's a you can't
call all of them kind of thing. He'll make it
harder for Jannis to pass, he can stray off of
him away from the ball, because that's really what Draymond

(47:07):
is best at. I just think he's smart enough and
has enough length to bother Jannis. And some of the
numbers are kind of compelling, So you don't feel good
about anybody against the honest But I think that's where
i'd go.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
That's a I'm I don't know. I feel like I
would have went with someone else there, but I get
the pick. It's just current Draymond. You think that's still the.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
That's that's the issue is. I think if I think
the Jannis numbers would look a little better if they
were all against current Draymond. So the past is doing
some work here. I just think he's I mean, you can't.
There's no good choice, Like it just seees so physically overwhelming.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
The board for somebody else though, which I think is
kind of important.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Yeah, well, that's good. I made it hard on you,
all right. You got to guard Luka Doncic with one
player who's going to.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Be Should I be tempted at all just to go
with Jaden McDaniels, because there's the proof of concept during
that one playoffs here and even this season, I think
that the Lakers offense hasn't been great when Luca's being
guarded by Jane McDaniels. But I feel in my heart
that the answer should be someone like Ogananobi because Lucadntrich
is so big, can be physical, has a finesse part

(48:14):
of his game. I don't like the idea necessarily of
og having to spend so much time defending the point
of attack and going around screens. Ah, I'm just gonna
stick with og Anobe. I feel like that's a high reward,
low floor type of pick.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Yeah, did you give any thought? I think so. My
I would have gone Aaron Gordon.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Oh, just a good one.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
The size, You're not gonna bait him into dumb stuff. Uh,
he's still really mobile. I mean you you have to
pick og and Gordon are kind of a piece, right,
Like you have to pick someone that is physically strong
enough to not just get put on Luca's hip and eliminated.
So Og. I mean, there's again, surprise, there's no good
option here.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
I think this is the only debatable player in so
to round out the top five players is Victor webin Yama?
Who are you picking to defend him?

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Well, so it's tempting to kind of take the Jokic
approach of we need somebody small, everybody smaller, but like
you want somebody to get underneath him, right like you
Drew Holliday used to bother Kevin Durant this way right.
I just think I think the height and length advantage
is so profound that, like Wemby will just turn around
and shoot or turn around and pass and see every angle.

(49:30):
So I'm gonna go with Chet Holmgren. And I think
part of that is I like the theater of We've
seen some really contentious matchups between the two of them,
and I think Chet, in his heart of hearts, believes
that he's as good as Weeban Yama, and so that
makes it as much as anything, like a fun thing
to see these guys go at each other. But he's

(49:50):
Chet's long, he's mobile. I think, like you know, he's
as good as you're gonna do unless you find someone
that can really just move Wemby off his spot and
is still somehow able to just like bother his length,
which I don't know who that guy is.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
I think that's a good call. Did you give any
thought or my overthinking this to an amen Thompson? Well,
physicality at him?

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Yeah, we haven't used him, And I think if you
want someone to just make life difficult, that's probably your guy.
You could throw him at almost anybody we've mentioned. By
the way, uh so that that's a good one. And
then by extension, just why isn't it a star Thompson, Like,
there's if you're gonna pick one, Let's let's do both. Hey,
do you know what package deal both Thompsons?

Speaker 1 (50:36):
First of all, that's in real life. That's how Wemby
would be defended, is with more than one guy. Anyway,
So did you give thought to putting Wemby on any
of the other players we mentioned.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Basically all of them? Just but then like, don't you
just want him roving a little bit more?

Speaker 1 (50:52):
And also he's fit, he's gotten stronger. But all the
dudes that we named Yokic that that would be Wemby die,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
I would say the one I gave the most thought
to was using him on Shay because he could back
off and like the Shay getting his shoulder into you
isn't like a thing, because Wemby could just meet him
at the spot and he could if Shae wants to
shoot long two's that Wemby jumps out at great.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
I mean, I don't know, it was funny. So I
didn't pick Aaron Gordon for Luka Dancic, which I kind
of like better now that you mentioned it. I was
saving Gordon and it wasn't sure how we were going
to do this. In my head, I thought Aaron Gordon
needed to be the Wemby defender and so but there
is Yeah, is there anyone who could slow down any
of these guys? It's the real question.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
No, That's why this is a fun exercise.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
We have a couple Grant only exercises to go through.
Are you ready for those?

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Perfect? I don't need to prepare anything, Grant.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
I am giving you a chance at redemption. Here, seven
active NBA players have at least five twenty five, five
and five seasons for their career. Twenty five points, five rebounds,
five assists, still a meaningful stat line. How many of them?
Can you name? You have three strikes and no pressure?

(52:09):
Make me prouder?

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Else, I would like to start by guessing Lebron has a.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Correct and he has twenty twenty five to five and
five seasons.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Can I transfer some of those over to the other
players that I will guess? That will be wrong?

Speaker 1 (52:25):
What does the say I will say? If this is
any help, nobody has even half as many seasons as
Lebron of twenty five to five surprising?

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Okay, so how many twenty five, five and five seasons? Sorry?

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Seven guys have at least five of them?

Speaker 2 (52:39):
At least five Okay, I think Luca's gotta be on there.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Right, Luca is that's two of two.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
This is how I started last time, So I'm now
I'm concerned. Man. I'm gonna hope that James Harden has
the rebounds because we know he's got the points and assists.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
James Harden has has Him and Luca both had seven
such season, So you are three of three.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Hmm twenty five five? Ooh, does jannest I'm gonna say, Yannis,
I know, I don't know about the assists for him.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Jannis is tied in second place with eight. You are
currently four of four.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
I should retire now, but yeah, the assists or the
tricky part, let's I'm sure there's some obvious ones. I
don't think Durant has the Durant is not an official guest.
I do not think he's got the assists.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Jimmy Butler, Jimmy Butler's not on the list. Strike one mm,
that hurts.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Let's see. I might. I'm not gonna ask you for
hints yet, but when I get to strike two, I
definitely will. Uh well, yokich that.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
There you go. That's number five on one strike.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
Yeah, I don't think Embiid has the assists. I will
not guess him. Let's see, I don't think man, I
know there's a lot of dead air. I hope you
can edit around this.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Um, he says to the viewers who will be watching
him and watch this.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yeah, let's see. I'll just fire off some guesses like, uhine.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
You need to game it out.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
How about Jason Tatum? Is he on there that strike too?
I will say, give me a hint.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
I don't think you're gonna get one of them because
of something you already said.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Oh well, let's see who I I I guess I'll
say Duran. How about that?

Speaker 1 (54:32):
That is he's he's tied for second with eight such seasons.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Surprise the assist up there? So I got I got
one strike?

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Would you like a clue?

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yes? Please?

Speaker 1 (54:44):
If you don't get this one, you were going to
feel terrible about yourself and everything you stand for.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Okay, then Steph has to be my guess.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
That is correct, you did it. He has six such season.
Shout out to Steph getting those rebounds And I thought,
I thought for a second you weren't gonna yo kitch.
And that was the most aside from Lebron was the
most obvious one.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
To me, Yeah, no, it absolutely is. They probably should
have been the second guess, but I just was thinking,
once you start with Lebron, you start thinking about the
the hard I almost said Kawhi, but I don't think
he had the assists. You start thinking about the older
classic guys that just have so many seasons that they
have to be on there, which again, should I almost
guess Lillard, but I don't think he ever had the rebounds.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
I'm sure he did, but yeah, five times is a lot,
and Lebron is a psychopath. We are on guess a
player first, Guess a player of the season. We're only
gonna do one of them. As a reminder, you can
submit them, and also if you want to submit the
type of trivia that Grant just did with the players
in stats, you can send those to us as well.
We're always wanting to take audience input from him, but
because we're pressed for time, we're only gonna do one.

(55:48):
It comes from Matti L. Grant, so shout out Matty L.
Are you ready.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
To remember who Matti L? Is a fan of? This
is always helpful, but that's okay.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
We'll go clue number one. I was named lot Vian
League Newcomer of the Year.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Okay, well, now we're speaking my language. Let's see lot
Ving League. Well again, it's been a while since we've
done this. But this doesn't necessarily mean this is a
lot Vian player. But I have to attempt the one
shot kill. We don't have a year. He was just
named lot Vian League newcomer of the Year. That's it.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Yep, Andre Spiadrinch, You just one shot killed it, did I?
That's insane? That's insane.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
Well, when you think lot Via Dan, there's only one
place to start.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Now you can't. I don't know if we've ever turned
guests a player into a short. I think we did.
We've now we've been shout out to aw is doing
great work for us. You guys will meet him on
the pod soon. By the way, Uh, we can't even
cut this up because no one.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Here's some more clues. I just want to walk down
memory lane with Goose.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
We need to cut that one out. The first ten
second clip that we ever post. So clue number two
was I was drafted in the teams in the same
draft as Dwight Howard and Lewell. Dang, would you've gotten it?
At that point.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
No, in my mind, Bedrince is like the eleventh pick
or something, which is I guess wrong.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
But clue number three. I averaged three point six points,
three point nine rebounds, point eight blocks, and two point
nine foy twelve point eight minutes in thirty games during
my rookie season and was the youngest player in the league.
I did not know he was ever the youngest player
in the league.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
I do remember that a lot was made on Warriors
broadcast at the time of anytime he did something wrong,
there would be the excuse of he's the youngest player
in the league.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
I might have got there. I'm curious if you would
have known this one. In my second season, this is
clue four. I was called the one minute man for
my constant foul trouble.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
No, that was an issue. I don't remember that.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Clue five. In my third season, I was given the
starting center spot after a changing coaching and aDNA Foyle
getting benched.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
I would have had it there. I think, okay, for sure.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
That's still five out of it. You would have gotten
a five, So we're going through. Clu six was after this.
After my fifth season, I finished fifth in Most Improved
voting behind a teammate.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yeah, if we know the year, because because Monte got
it right that year, that had.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
To be the I don't even remember that b Adrians
had finished that high. Yeah, these things were fun because
I'm learning in real time.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Yeah, you're learning about like a that was ultimately a
dark but like weirdly bright stretch of Bad Warriors teams
because Beadrinch and Ellis were like, Okay, we got like
some young guys that are fun to watch, but I
mean they just weren't like winning players. But that's the
best we could do at the time.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Clue seven wasn't eight oh nine. I signed a six
year contract to keep me with the team that drafted
me and was named a co captain. You definitely would
have had that. Between nine and ten and then twenty
twelve thirteen, I struggled with injury and form, constantly being
pulled out of the starting lineup for such names as
at gate Udo and Jeremy Tyler.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Yeah, I would have had it.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
There.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
Does he get into the free throw issues because that
became like that ruined his career. He was he was
Ben Simmons. He was terrified to get fouled.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
No, the final two clues Clue nine. In July twenty thirteen,
I was part of a trade to the Utah Jazz
in order for my team to clear cap space for
Andrea Gadala. Include ten was I played six games with
the Jazz, with game six being my last ever NBA game.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Yeah. Yeah. The only other thing I would have thrown
in there to get the full picture is he was
incredibly tanned, just a terrifically tan human being for someone
from Latvia.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
The skin complexion was just on point. An NBA very.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Jailed hair, extreme jail user. He was a lot of fun, though.
I really the Beadrinch experience was overall positive.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
All right, we have one more thing to do again,
send us Guessa players more, and also send to if
you want to move from Guessa players the type of
trivia stuff, so then I could do them as well.
If you send them to grant a docs or in
our discord, Hey go join our discord. Look at that
our final one grant Are you ready and more importantly,
are you excited?

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
I am beyond excited because I know what this is.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Let's rank these groups of three NBA players according to
their current trade value. You will start us off by
going with LaMelo, Ball, John Morant, and Shrey Young.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Okay, I would like to before I answer, can we
operate collectively here? Because this is these are all so difficult,
So I think I think LaMelo has to have the
most trade value of this time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yes. This is inspired by Schmid Duovi in the Know,
who posted a question on Socials asking about it. I
just younger. The injury history is okay, yeah it's bad,
but the stuff he can do as a shooter even
if he's off the ball, and just the positional size
is up, so he's not a great defender and he
can be stiff, but you can still kind of make

(01:00:56):
plays defensively because he's so big. So I'd bet on him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
And fun Man right, he's still on the fun Max.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
My controversial take would be I think Trey belongs at
number two.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Okay, good just and for me it's strictly you have
to I know John Morant's contract runs a little longer,
so maybe you're worried about Trey's player option. I just
worry about the way John Morant is gonna age, and
so he's already both him and Trey our defensive liabilities
Tray's worse, of course, but he is despite what we've
seen this season, he's the better shooter. I think he's
the player that's gonna age better. And also the other

(01:01:30):
thing that we're not talking about is because his contract
is shorter, who's to say he's not gonna get He
might not get another Max deal and so his contract
could become more team friendly.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
He's gonna be a real test of the league's tolerance
for max salaries. I think we have to acknowledge that
there's a I don't know how big of a chance
it is, but there is one that Jaw changes teams
and looks very much like the guy that we thought
he was two three years ago. I just like, you
can't bet on that, and that has to be priced
into the trade value thing. Got ittle, Let's see if

(01:02:01):
it sticks. All right, you and with my help, have
to order the trade value of Anthony Davis, James Harden,
and Karl Anthony Towns a very different list.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
This is really is this tough? This is tough? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Yeah? These are all tough.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
I well, I don't know who to pick.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Number.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
My instinct says that you should just bet on Ad
being the He's still at the Adria could be a
transformative player. But am I two? And part of me
is two, blinded by what we've seen in Dallas, and
then the recency biases. The Clippers are awful, but James
Harden is amazing. But then should we be worried that
the Clippers are awful just by James Harden being amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Here's I think where we start. I think Towns is
just third because the best version of Towns is not
on these two guys level. Exclude age or whatever, like,
it's not like Towns is that young anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
And you boil it down to you can't pay thirty
five percent of the cap to a floor spacing center
who is reluctant to space the floor and does and
can't play center.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
That is not a center.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Yes, right, so work our way backwards. Yeah, it's hard.
Hard has to be two because he's older. That's really
his contract. I feel better because he's already signing for less,
so there, I think they're deals. He has the player
option after this year, and Anthony Davis is gonna be
up for an extension. I just you can make a
case based on this season alone that it needs to

(01:03:20):
be hardened. But I think he's older and he's less
plug and play than a healthy a day.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Right, right, If you trade for James Harden, it's very difficult.
It's just not not just any team can do that.
I think Davis is someone. Davis has to have the
highest trade value. So it's got to be Davis one,
hardened two cat three.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Our next one gonna start off with these three calling
an audible here, based off peak behind the curtain, based
off how this is going to be separated. Bam Adebayo,
Jalen Brown and Jaron Jackson Junior. Who would you have
this is? This is another tough one.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
You know, this is a little easier for me. Let me.
I think has the highest trade value of the three.
I just I think you get some plug and play
elements there. They're all these guys are are portable. But
I think Bam can anchor the defense of a team
that looks a lot of different ways. I think the

(01:04:16):
playmaking he provides at center, I just I feel safe.
I feel I feel safe with Bam in ways I
don't with the other two. Do you agree that Bam
is the highest trade value there?

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
I think that's right. He's the I mean he is
the most versatile defender in the NBA, or at least
one of the most five, right, so when that and
then offensively, he can do things as a passer but
doesn't need to be dominating, and.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
The three point shot emerging this year for him makes
it so like you can't just say, well, it's Jackson
because of because of that, I think I think Bam
on offense now is just I don't know, as good
or better than Jaron Jackson. Certainly better than the version
of Jackson that's played this year so far. But who
knows what to make that Jalen Brown is. I think
I feel like a lot of people will be like, no,

(01:05:03):
it's Jalen Brown. He's a two way wing that's career
high in efficiency in an alpha role. All of a
sudden this year, how is it not him?

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
I think the contract makes you a little nervous. He
hasn't always been the healthiest, but I think he's more
than thinking about it. He's the clear number two, right
because Jared Jackson Junior might be a transformative defender, but
the same problems we've always kind of that feels solvable,
the rebounding, the foul trouble, those are still the same
problems we're talking about for the better part of a

(01:05:32):
decade at this point, So he might be I don't know.
I mean it's Jalen Brown has been the more reliably
available one too his contra. The only reason to pick
Jared Jackson Junior might be the contract, and now that
he was renegotiating and extended. I don't think that argument
is strong anyway, right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
And I think too you can use the reductive argument
of like finals MVP. I've seen Jalen Brown do it,
so there's huge value there. Also, like I think what
he's done this year, now, who knows if this is
gonna hold up. But there was a real question of like,
so what's it look like if Jalen Brown is your
number one option? Offensively not bad? Is the answer? Like,

(01:06:09):
I think the contract's a huge deal, because that's it's
just massive. But I think it's out of bio one,
Brown two, Jackson three.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
I like everything we say. I think that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
All right. I will now force you, with my help
again to rank the trade value of Yannis, Anthony Edwards,
and Cooper flag.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
This one feels impossible because Giannis is three distinct phases
of career that we got to figure out. I think
I think Cooper Flag is number one. You have to
roll the dice on being and even because his rookie
year in Dallas, they've done everything they can to sabotage him,
and you know that the defense of the vision of

(01:06:55):
him defensively is going to work. What you might not
feel great about is what would he do if he
was the primary ball handler? As Jiannis has shown throughout
his career, is that you don't. You can win MVPs
without being the primary ball handler. Jannis feels safest. But
the age I'm giving up more to roll the dice
on Cooper Flag than for Yannis me is that dumb.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
I'm having a really hard time here. So here's how
I would try to answer the question. The Mavericks call
the Wolves and say we will give you salaries don't exist.
You can have Cooper Flag, give us Anthony Edwards. I
think Minnesota says no. I think Minnesota says we what
do you? We can't we have? It's Anthony Edwards like,

(01:07:38):
you can't what else are you offering?

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
I don't you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Imagine that's how it goes.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
I could see that, Well, let's work our way backwards,
then Jannis is probably at three strictly because of the age,
And I don't know the.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
That's the thing, these guys that this is such an
apples to oranges, to pairs like comparison. These guys are
it would this is it's a cop out. We will
rank them, but like it depends on what stage of
your team, what stage of the evolution of your team
you're at, Cause if you're like, we gotta win immediately,
then it well, okay, Yannis, right. And then if it's

(01:08:13):
like we're kind of trying to split the difference, it's Edwards.
And if it's we'd like to be good in twenty
thirty one, it might still be Edwards, but it's more
likely going to be Flag. So I why isn't it
just Jannie's number one? And then it's Edwards and it's Flag.
Why isn't it just the the quality of the player today?

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
If you're because you're trying to you're trying to scale forward,
But the way that you're framing it now makes me
think you should go when we're talking about a multi
time MVP who can still be the best over thirty though,
I hate to frame it through that. Okay, do you
feel more comfortable giving up right now four first round
picks and three swaps for Giannis or Cooper Flag? What

(01:08:57):
makes you more comfortable?

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Uh? Man, I wish I'd seen more than like fifteen
games of Cooper Flag is my answer to that. So
maybe here's where I'm leaning. Why isn't it? Why how
about Edwards is number one? Because you get a little
bit of the difference, right, because honest, I agree, like
your time horizon with the honest is just too short.
I think to give up like the god just the

(01:09:22):
massive package of picks and players.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
And I do think you're right if you just put
Anthony Edwards, Like if you put Anthony Edwards and Giannis
attent to Koompo on the open market at the same time,
I wonder if Anthony Edwards is gonna like that's the
the Timberwolves are getting the call first.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
I think so. I think so because you could imagine
the next five years you don't have Jianness declining was
a concern coming into this year, and with Edwards is like,
that's ridiculous. He's still getting better and like Giannis is
a better player now. But it's like the difference between
the third, fourth best player in the league and the
eighth or whatever. I think Edwards is won. I think

(01:09:59):
Edwards has the highest tree val flag.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
I just don't know what to do with I'm putting
him to. Okay, well, I think it's Giannis is the
safe bet at one even, but I'll go Edwards flag Jannis.
I'm going to invest more in the guy that I
think might be around for the next fifteen years. That's
just what I feel more comfortable doing.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Yeah, I want to get out of this one, so
I'm gonna agree with you because this is too hard.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Okay, Trade value rankings. Jerry Allen, Rudy Gobert, Domontes Sabonis.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Boy, these feel pretty close. I kind of feel like
Alan what I wish I could remember his contract. It's
not the super cheap one. I think both. I think
Sabonis has three years left, So.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Jared Allen's going to start a three year extension after
this season.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
At what per year? Thirty?

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
He's in the thirties.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
Man, is it Rudy Gobert because his contract is the shortest,
Because didn't they ill?

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
I would say it's absolutely not Rudy Gobert.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Who do you feel good? Well, you're gonna have to
help him the collaboratives side this because.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
I just Jared Allen's probably the clear number one for me,
and it's so he starts that so he's even under
thirty Yeah, I mean signing the contract is three years
and ninety million that starts next year. That's under eighteen
percent of the salary cap.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Okay, I'm gonna go Jared Allen. It's because of that,
because I think most people would look at this list
and say Jared Allen is the third best player on it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
Maybe okay, but he is. He seems easier to fit
in anywhere. Jamanti Suportis is the best player on this list.
I think not the season so far. The issue for
me is so Jared Allen has better hands than Rudy
Gobert and not the same defender, but probably a little
more versatile. Rudy is still during his minutes can kind
of be the defense under himself, but you're not. You're

(01:11:56):
giving something away on each end of the floor with
Gobert and some bonus go bear offensively, sabonus defensively. You're
not giving too much away with Allen unless the floors
basing element, but the screening is vertical spacing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
Yep, Okay, I have it. I think I agree with you.
Allan is the number one in value. I think it's
Gobert to Sabonis three, and I think that's because of
what Gobert can be the defense. Unto himself. Sabonis has
been part of very good offenses, but like the defense
just isn't there, and you don't know what you've got
to build. Kind of creatively, I think around Sabonis on

(01:12:30):
offense and then certainly on defense, that might be.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
I think I might put sabonus at two and go
Bear at three. In fact, it's age and then I
just value someone who can drive your entire offense more
than I drive someone who can drive your entire defense.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Yeah. Me, I it's close. I think I think where
we do. I think Allen is one. I think that's
I think we've kind of officially landed there. I just
don't know, man, I think I still have Sabonis third.
The durability until this year was a pretty big.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
You're bonus hater. I'm shocked. I'm shocked. I'm shocked.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
All Right, we have one more here, another former former
king Diaron Fox, Laurie Markinen and Austin Reeves, who has
the highest trade value here.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
So maybe I'm galaxy braining this, but we don't know
what reeves Is next contract is gonna be, if he's
gonna be on a Max, which I'm just gonna assume, Okay,
he's on a Max. I'm I think I'm taking dearon
Fox one here. He's looked pretty good this season's is
coming back from injury with the Spurs. He's the better defender.

(01:13:36):
Austin Reeves is probably, I mean, who's the better shot maker?
I know Reeves can do more things away from the ball.
He does the relocate stuff really well. I'm gonna go
with d Aaron Fox at one. I think he's the
of this bunch that we named, isn't he the most
bankable star? Reeves is what into his second season as
being the kind of it guy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
Yeah, I think it's I think partly because of the
sally and because he's a complimentary guy for sure. Marketing
is probably third, right, So we can start at the
end with with that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
He's three, but this season he's having is that there's
a case for him to be two. He can't be one,
but two for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Like, what's he look like, Yeah, what is market in
what does this version of marketing look like? With average
you know, shop creation and supporting offensive players.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Here's the thing. He has less than average offensive creation
and shop making around him now, and that's what he looks.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
That's what I mean. So is he definitely won if
if if the supporting cast is better, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
I think that I value from scratch things a little
bit more, and so that's why I would lean Fox there.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
No, I agree, I think I think I think market
is three Fox and Reeves is a lot closer than
I would have thought. Reeves is a more efficient play
Reeves has more off ball value I think is fairly
well established. Right Like, I think you're as a defense,
you're more worried about him being left open. Fox Is
track record is just longer though.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
Reeves is probably the better passer out of pick and rolls, right, No.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Yeah, and he's like just more creative. There's more he
could do more, there's more variety in what Reeves does.
I think on the ball, this isn't easy. And you
worry about Fox as a guy that has depended on
speed and athleticism and what happens right when that goes
Reeves though counter Reeves doesn't have a step to lose athletically,

(01:15:29):
but he's he might be more skilled. It's kind of
tied into like these more variety as like as he
splits a pick and roll, like what happens? I don't know.
Reeves will just like do whatever the situation calls for.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Did you just sell me on Reeves at one?

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
I'm trying to sell myself. I think I think we
have to honor the just the body of work and
say Fox is won. But if Reeves tell me this,
if Reeves is not maxed out, if Reeves is making
thirty to thirty five a year, it's it's probably right him.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
Yeah, it's him, and that's wow. So Fox one, Reeves two,
market In three.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
I think.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
So these were good. I feel terrible about myself. Are
you ready to take us out of here?

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
You know what we collaborated on these, and when we
are collaborating and feeling terrible about ourselves. Thanks everybody for listening,
for watching, Remember to rate, review, subscribe Joiner discordants for
that and they do YouTube and podcast description. Please let
us know how you would order, especially these trade values
and weigh in on any of the other stat adding
stuff we did, because I feel like this is all
pretty ripe for discussion and the comments that's going to

(01:16:34):
do it. Shouts Franklin Keen and apologies Jared Allen

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