August 25, 2025 • 55 mins
Welcome to Shooting The Bleep, a brand-new format on The NBA Podcast, in which Morten Jensen & Bryan Toporek chat about the NBA without any form of preparation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, my name is Morton Jensen and you're listening to
the NBA Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hi, and welcome to the NBA Podcast. My name is
Morton Jensen, and today we're launching and yes, I said we.
I'll get back to that in a second. We are
launching a new thing here on the show. We're launching
something called Shooting the Bleep, and that is basically a
free flowing conversation where we have no idea what topics
(00:40):
will be covered, which players will be mentioned. It is
basically what is coming to mind as we talk, as
we interact, and basically where the status quote the NBA
is of today. So nothing in terms of preparation. And
when I say we, it's very important to note that
the only person in the world who I would do
(01:01):
this particular series with is my old podcast buddy Brian Saborik.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Brian, how are you, sir?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I am good, Thank you for having me back. Good
to be back as always, excited to shoot the bleep
with you. Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, absolutely So.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I'm just gonna ask you in terms of, like the
past couple of weeks has something like stuck in your
mind about the league some a new tendency, a player
who you're like interested in in figuring more out in
terms of like next year, like just something that's tiggled
your fancy.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah. Well, I've got a real sicko project that I'm
not gonna spoil right now, but I should be coming
out sometime next week. I actually actually two sicko projects,
so have me back on in the next week or two,
and one one that I will be writing and then
one that I ideated and farmed out to a mutual
(01:59):
friend of ours that will be coming out Monday.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Nice.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
So yeah, lots to come there, but I don't want
to I don't want to spell what we can revisit
those down the line. I'd say two things. One the
darn Fox extension. Yeah, caught me not off guard, but
I just think the contrast between what's happening or what
(02:25):
happened with him where he got the max extension a
day after he was eligible, and then Trey Young not
getting an extension yet not seemingly close to getting an
extension yet. So I just think it's it's interesting to
compare those two right because I'm not sure which side
(02:49):
is right or wrong, or if there is even if
there is a right around Like both teams are in
different situations, so it might be that you know, both
are right given their current financial setups. But I find
it interesting, you know, in the larger league context of
like I have been wondering since this new CBA came about,
(03:10):
since teams are starting to feel the full ramifications of
the second apron, like will it change who is quote
unquote a full max player? And you know, I think
under the old CBA, Trey Young would have been a
full max player. I feel like he very likely would
(03:32):
be extended by now if we were operating under the
CBA from two or three years ago. Right, So Fox
getting that extension, Like I don't know that he's a
full max player in the CBA whereas you know, so
that that's That's what's caught my attention lately, is just
(03:55):
like the difference between those two and why the Spurs
were willing to do it and the Hawks were not.
So I'd be curious to pick your brain about that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah. No, So I'm right there with you.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
When I saw that contract extension, I was a little
flabbric astid, especially like you brought it up in terms
of like how close it came about. I still think
that if Luca hadn't signed the extension immediately, I think
the Spurs would have tried to like hold off a
little bit because who could offer him a better situation
(04:29):
next year if he went into like unrestrictive free agency. Yeah,
I mean, look, you call him up and you go,
you'd say one word, actually a name, you just say, Wempy.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That's your pitch, that's your whole pitch.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
But when Luca went off the board, I think the
Spurs were like, Okay, then let's lock in Fox because
at the very least he's probably more tradeable with having
more years.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Attached to him.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But then that circles back to the interesting conversation, is
he more tradeable now now that he's on a four
percent max? So it becomes one of those things where
you know he actively wanted to go there. I think
there's something there that also where he kind of deserves
a little bit of loyalty points in that perspective. But
(05:14):
I also think for the Spurs, and I think you
and I've talked about this before, they're allowed to be selective,
like it's it's wemby, Like they can't just say, oh,
a certain player wants to be here, Oh, let's lock
him up immediately. You and I have also talked before
about high fox this last year, not not this past year,
but the twenty three twenty four year. You know, that's
(05:36):
when he had strong three point shooting year. He was
taking per game, hitting thirty seven percent. But so far
that's the historic outlier. Everything else has been well, pretty bleepy,
to be quite frank, It's been bad.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's been very bad.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And do you really want to invest a full max
into a guy who's not a natural shooter? That's that's
a tough sell for me, especially in this day and age. Like,
I'm not saying he won't offer tremendous like transition opportunities.
He's a good defender, he's an underrated rebounder for his
size as well. The mid rain shot we know he's got.
(06:17):
But when things gets tough and it's like turns into
a playoff context and you just need the floor spacing,
do we trust him to become and deliver at a
full max number of thirty percent. I don't know the
answer to that, And I think it's such a reasonable
thing that you bring it up.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, And I think so. I wrote about it Forbes
first about Trey and then I think actually just published
the thing today on Fox, and I think it might
just boil down to where the two teams are financially
in that you know, Wemby's not even extension audible till
next year, so his extension won't start until twenty seven,
(06:59):
twenty eight, Stephan Castle not till the year after that,
and then Dylan Harper obviously just starting his rookie sales extension,
so he's got a four year window before they really
need to worry about you know, oh my god, Fox, Wemby, Harper,
and Castle will all be off their rookie deals at
which point that will not be financially sustainable, and so
they've got like, realistically a two year window. I would
(07:21):
say probably by the time Castle is extension eligible, or
definitely by the time Harper's extension eligible, they're going to
want to decide. You know, we're probably not keeping all
three of Castle, Harper and Darren Fox. But Fox was
just the first one up. So that's that's what we
had to We just had to make the decision now
because we we did not want to risk losing him
(07:42):
to unrestricted free agency next year. I mean, he could
have signed him at any time, So you know, part
of me was wondering, like do they wait to go
into the season to see how he fits with these
new pieces and see, like, you know, if it becomes
clear that Harper and Castle are the guys they want
to build around. To your point, like is Fox on
(08:04):
the thirty percent max? Like does that hurt or help
his trade value? I don't know, Like teams will prefer
the longer term security, but it's just hard to take
on long term money, especially like you know, I think
Fox is gonna have a great year playing next to Wemby.
I mean, Wenby is just an amplifier for everyone, especially
(08:24):
a point guard. So I'm not really concerned about the
near term. It's the longer term. You know, we've seen
these guards like if they lose half a step, he's
not an elite three point shooter by any means. So, like,
you know, do do you find yourself in a situation
three years from now where say the Denver Nuggets did
with Michael Porter Junior this summer, where like MPJ is
(08:46):
still a really good player just on that contract, wound
up needing to attach an unprotected distant first round pick
to get off of him to trade for Cameron Johnson.
So like maybe they can get you know, trade Deer
and Fox on the road, but are you going to
get significant positive value for him or do you have
to attach stuff to get someone else in his place
(09:07):
that might fit better with your castle? Harper wenby Core.
Where's that the Hawks already have Jalen Johnson signed to
a long term deal. You know, Dyson Daniels is up
for an extension between now and October. Porzingis is also
in the last year of his deal. You know, I
don't think Porzingis is getting anywhere near a max, especially
(09:29):
like he's he's very good, was like the X factor
for a championship team. What's fourteen months ago, but you know,
especially with all the health concerns his age, Like wouldn't
shock me if he's right around thirty million. So part
of me wonders if they're just kind of waiting, Like,
let's negotiate with Dyson Daniels first, Let's see if we
(09:51):
can get Chris Stop signed to an extension, Like see
where these other pieces fall, right, and then you circle
back to Trey because the one thing they won't want
to do is, you know, find themselves in second Apron
prison in the next couple of years. So they just
have some like longer term salary on their books and
they've got some big other financial decisions coming up, whereas
(10:11):
the Spurs just don't really. I mean, like Harrison Barnes
is gonna is an expiring contract and like I think,
uh Sohan is up for.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
An extension for an extension too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, but like I mean he's not I don't think
he's gonna break the bank necessarily, so like they just
have more.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Do you think he's even on the roster like after
the trade deadline?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, Like I struggle to see the.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Spurs like like wanting to deal with like a restricted
free agency mess with him, like he's good, but like
there's a limit.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, I mean, like I don't I don't know if
anyone's gonna throw him a huge bag. Like I think
this is this will get kind of dovetail into the
other big thing. I'm wondering. But you know, like right
now we're at this standstill with the four big restricted
free agents this summer. Like I'm not convinced that this
is how it's going to be moving forward. I think
(11:10):
this was kind of an outlier summer and that really
it was the Nets and nobody else had cap space.
Whereas next year more teams are currently projected to a
lot will change in the next year, right, you know,
I don't think like eight teams are going to enter
next offseason with max cap space. I would be surprised
by that. But I think more teams will have financial
(11:32):
flexibility next summer than they did this year. That said,
or any of them. Like you say, all right, I'm
gonna throw thirty million dollars a year, Jeremy Sohan, That's
how I'm using my financial flexibility. Probably not I would not.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
As I mean, the free agent class is like already
getting pretty thin though, like I mean Luca off the market,
Darren Fox off the market. I mean KD presumably is
gonna stay in Houston. Lebron who knows, like zach Lavine
is not turning down his forty nine million dollar player option.
I don't think. I mean Trey if he doesn't come
(12:13):
to terms with Atlanta, is the big name. But yeah,
like Fox is off the markets, like c J. McCollum, Middleton,
Christaps porzingis, Tobias Harris, Anthony Simon's I mean, there are names.
Ron I'm just going down the list of highest paid players.
Unfortunately he is not quite as high as he used
(12:36):
to be, with still pretty eye up there. But yeah,
I mean, they're just like there are a lot of
you know, decent fourth or fifth men, but there it's
we're short on star power already, right, especially if some
of the big names stay put as expected. So yeah,
I'm I'm curious where the Spurs go with him, because
(12:57):
I think they are. I mean, to me, it seems
like they are already doing what okay se did a
couple of years ago with like they structured their contracts
for lou Dort and Isaiah Hartenstein, specifically with Jalen Williams
and Chet Holmgren in mind, they like built escape hatches
into those contracts, knowing these guys we're about to get
(13:18):
a lot more expensive in twenty six twenty seven, and
we need to have some financial flexibility here, so the
Spurs won't be we won't get really expensive until like
twenty eight, twenty nine, or even twenty nine to thirty,
but they're already starting to build some escape hatches, Like
Louke Cornett's contract descends each year, not fully guaranteed in
(13:43):
twenty seven twenty eight, which is when Wemby's new deal
will kick in. Who is the other one they did,
Oh Devin Vessel right, twenty seven million, twenty seven million.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Art.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, so like they're they're aware that Wemby not that
only is going to get a twenty five percent max,
but like probably going to get a thirty percent mass.
Like he plays sixty five games, he's getting a thirty
percent mass.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And like it also feels like with the Spurs there's
another shoot to drop because right now they're paying twenty
four and a half million this year for backup centers.
That smells a little off to me, that that seems
a little unsustainable. That like that feels to me that
like there's something brewing near the tradeadline in some capacity
(14:31):
because they still have draft picks, they still have money
to or not sorry, money like assets to go burn
through if they want to like go out and match
salary stuff, like they can make another piece and look,
if you want to add more money, Hi, Kilton Johnson
and you're seventeen and a half million a year, which
more than several teams would say, Yeah, that's fine for Kelton,
(14:52):
that's cool.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Did you see Jake Fisher drop something earlier today that
said thank you, I believe if he said they were
one of the teams that has reached out to New
Orleans about trade.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, I saw that. I saw that.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
The tray that is is funny because Dan Favalley and
I who podcasted a lot recently, have like kind of
said that's the player for them, for the Spurs specifically,
and it just it makes so much sense.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
And they can get to his money very to your point,
like yeah, Kelly linnok and Harrison Barnes Colin Johnson, like
it's got to be those two one of the But
I mean that gets you to get thirty plus million
and trays it twenty five.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Is twenty five.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, I mean you could go if you just wanted
to make it like a like a draft picks oriented,
you know, value alignment, you could go Barnes and so
hand more or less.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, that gets you there. Like, yeah, they have the Spurs.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
That's something I think flyes on of the radar a
little bit with San Antonio. It's all in like the
midsier contracts that they have, which like some teams prefer
to spend big on certain players and then they kind
kind of go down a little bit further down. For
this PERSA had this many like mixture contracts that has
to be viewed as an acid, especially under this CBA.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Mm hmm, yeah, I think so. I mean, like Rick
Carlisle just gave an interview with the goat Caitlin Cooper
recently where he's talking about like he didn't say big
threes are dead, but he kind of alluded to it. Yeah,
he said, like, you know, youth and depth are kind
(16:34):
of the ways to go moving forward. So I mean
we've been talking about this long before the new CBA,
but really the new CBA like kind of forced team's
hands in that regard them. Yeah, you know, I mean, like, okay,
see might be the rare example, and like san Antonio
(16:54):
in a couple of years could also be the outlier
where if you've built rebuilt really well that you are
able to sustain a big three for a little while.
But like, I think the more long term sustainable approach
is the two stars in depth and then like having
these mid tier contracts to your point where you can
(17:17):
reshuffle some pieces as needed. And even Trey Murphy like
if if you get him at twenty five million, he's
not I mean, what is that percentage of the cap
this year?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Six sixty point two and he only goes up by
two million a year, So it like he's such a cheap,
cheap contract Like that might be a very natural pivot point, honestly,
because like Trey's contract, I think also is such an
ascid for the Pelicans that I understand why Pels fans,
all five of them, are like.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
That was cool.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Look he's cruel because my friends are two of them.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
We know, yeah, but look if they look this year,
someone has to have just gone off the wagon, right,
like they must have just jumped ship. But like I
understand their point is like, no, you can't trade Tray unless,
like you also get the team to pay for the
contract that he has, so you're not only paying for
(18:16):
the player, you're actually also relinquishing assets to get you know,
Tray's specifically tailored contract onto the books, which I think
is a great point. Like that is such a good
especially under this CBA, Like now contracts, like the volume
of the contracts, the value rather of the contracts they
themselves can now be such an asset that you can
(18:39):
force teams to fork up additional draft picks or young
players or whatever you want to say, Okay, you want
this good ass contract.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
It's why I.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Still think the Bulls just completely messed up by not
trading Kobe White like when they had because when he
not this season, but going into the last season, a
team could have traded for him and had him for
two playoff years at what twelve million a year? Like
you could have ad you could have set your own
price on that. And I think that is probably what
(19:08):
we're gonna be seeing with this new CBA. I think
we're gonna see more and more teams have guys who
are on great deals who are like beginning to flirt
with the idea of pivoting off of them because they
could just get something excellent. Like are we now I'm
really gonna pivot hard here? Are we going to close
the door on the Blazers? For example, saying, all right,
(19:30):
so what would you give us for Danny and his
dissenting contract that ends at like ten point eight million
or something ridiculous? Mm hmm, Man, I don't know the
answers to that, like maybe.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's gonna be really interesting how
teams like balance because like the Blazers in theory are
feeling very good right now about how they ended last year, yeah,
and are gonna like not want to do that because
they want to continue taking steps forward, right, and that
would be a big step backward, like the Pelicans with
(20:06):
Trey Murphy. You know, I think a lot obviously depends
on Zion's health for the umpteenth time, but.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
His soft court issues.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah, right, But like if if at any point, I mean,
it could go one of two ways. They could decide
to just cut bait on Zion completely and just say
like screw it, we need to just fully rebuild now
and let's get what we can for Trey Murphy and
or Jones and like let's really embrace the suck for
a couple of years. I know there's some like financial
(20:35):
ramifications for them, and like can they sustain a franchise
in New Orleans when like can you rebuild to that extent?
I don't know, especially with all the expansions talk like that.
There's a lot of reasons why they might be reluctant
to do that, but maybe they go that route, or
(20:56):
if they cut it on Zion, say like all right,
we're building around Trey Murphy moving forward. I think you
can certainly make a case like remove the will New
Orleans still have a basketball team from the equation, because
I think that's a totally separate conversation, and like you
could certainly make a case that this Pelicans team is
going nowhere and that they should be willing to you know,
(21:18):
Trey Murphy, you were gonna get probably a pretty massive
hall for right now.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Well, there is dependence.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Do you trust your Dumores to make that trade? I'm
not trying to make right exactly, Like I'm not even
trying to be funny, Like I just don't trust Dumores
to make that.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Deal, right right?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
No, no, again.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
I feel this needs to be reiterated because it happened
a few months ago. Now the Hawks called them back
to like ask them, is this literally the package you're
offering us?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Is this actually it? Like they had to double check Bride.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah, yeah, for good reason. I mean, just truly insane.
One of the most insane things I've seen in a
long time.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Like, right, we just.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Haven't had we haven't had a trade like that other
than Luca deal obviously, Like that, I felt like a
relic from like two thousand and seven. Yeah, where teams
used to do that crap all the time?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah? Right? Was it?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Was it the Kyrie selection the King courtesy of the
Clippers because they wanted Baron Davis.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
And and well, I mean, look that probably fits with Joe.
I mean when did he win the title with Detroit.
It was two thousand and four. That's that's roughly the
same era.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, he just never he just never quite.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Hey man, Darryl Morriing might be operating in that time too,
so I can't make too much fun. Oh certainly not
operating twin twenty five right now.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, I mean you're becoming an Oklahoma City Thunder super fan,
so you.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Know that's already there, already there. All these all these
years of Thunder blogging really paid off for me this year.
I got to see the Eagles and the thunderwent a
title like I'm Good.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I forget thought about that.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
That was the second title for the Birds, right, that is,
right in recent years?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, yeah, no, I still remember the first one where your.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
What where your wife sends me a video of you
drunk off your ass.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, this one was more controlled, no, because we were
this was just a straight belt to ass the whole time.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
So I didn't have to like your parents.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Sure, yeah right, having my four year old watching it
with me, certainly. I mean, if this one went as
closely contested as the twenty seventeen one was, he would
have been in bed at halftime, because we would not.
We're lucky that this one was just a nice, easy
blowout win for the Eagles, no sweat after the second quarter.
(24:03):
But yes, it's been a lovely year. If you just
forget the Philadelphia seventy six ers exists.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, no, I try to. I acted me too.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So let's take a quick commercial break and let's beep
back with more random thoughts in shooting the bleep. All right, right, So,
one thing that I've been thinking about lately is and
this is controversial, and I put this out on my
Danish podcast and the response was very mixed. Some were like, oh,
(24:35):
that's a good idea. Some were like what the f
are you doing? Like, don't even put that bad voodoo
on me. The Celtics like not Tatum. Obviously, they're trying
to save money. They're trying to like basically take a
gap year, so to speak. They have their own draft pick.
(24:56):
They are also three players who could all turn into
ranchise caliber cornerstones in this upcoming twenty twenty six draft.
I made the claim, or not the claim, but I
came up with the idea the Celtics should just not
prioritize getting front court this year, and so far that
seems to be like the approach that they that they
(25:18):
have regard right and if they end up in the
deep lottery that might actually be a.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Good thing for them. Am I wrong here? Is it
too big of a gamble?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Is it too big of a risk to just basically
tell Jalen Brown and Anfony Simon's take fifty shots per game?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Please?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
I don't think so. I mean, they're certainly not trying
to put their best foot forward to win this year,
right like they are clearly. I mean, there is no
Celtics fan that can argue they're motivated by winning this year,
and I don't, especially in the wake of the Tatum injury.
They shouldn't be because they aren't gonna win without Jason Tatum.
(26:02):
And like salary dumping and Drew Holliday and christopsporzingis I
mean they just salary dumped George Niang as well.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Like it.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
To me, it seems like not only are they concerned
about the Aprons, that they're trying to duck the tax entirely. So, like,
I do not think Anthony Simons is on this team.
After the trade deadline, they will flip him for a
much cheaper player. They're twelve ish million over the tax
right now, so you know, it might be like a
(26:32):
Russian Nesting Dolls type move with Simons where they like
trade him for a twenty two million dollar player and
then trade the twenty two. But like, he's not long
for Boston.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I mean, will you take Anthony Simons for Terrence Man?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Terrence Man is untouchable. He can't be traded, right, be serious?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Was that two years ago? That Proclamation game? Yes?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yes, it was.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Oh god.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I mean, like, I like the Chris Bouchet signing was
nice for you know, a minimum contract. Like, they've got
a bunch of guys that you might as well just
see what you have in them. This is just kind
of a reset year for them and they can see
like if any of these depth pieces make sense for
them moving forward, Like if you have something in Baylor Shireman,
(27:25):
then you've got him under contract for three more years
and he's cheap. That's great, but.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
He's shooting guard. He will have to play the four here.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
That's true. Well, Jalen Brown will be playing the four.
It'll be just Derek White, Simon's Peyton Pritrut will be Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Are we were like, can we lock in that Sam
Houser was going to play center?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I mean it's at some point.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You have to. I mean, they have a bunch of centers.
Actually they're just we don't know if any of them
are good. But I mean they have Xavier Tillman, Luca
Garza Quita, They've got Bouchet who can I mean, smaller
than the typical center, but like they've got and.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Like Jordan Walsh in a pinch, I guess sure.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Sure they have Amari Williams on a two way deal.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
We got a lot of tremendous size. Love it.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah, yeah, but I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
It's just it's.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It's when you think of the players like that could
come in, right, and it's it's twofold, like if you
do get this high draft pick and if like somehow
you put yourself in a position where you at least
can jump up and jump into like the top three.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
It's you.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
You safeguard yourself something here first and foremost you're like,
you may actually get a real star who's young, cheap,
which would help their cap sheet moving forward. But secondly,
and this might be a little bit more of the
unspoken thing, we don't know how Jason Tatum is gonna
look when he gets back. Like I understand that KD
came back. I understand the players who come back from
(28:59):
this injury.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I get it. I'm not saying that I'm.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Sitting here thinking that Jason Tatum will be a shelvy himself,
like I hope not like I hope that he'll be
back to being just the regular ass self that he
used to be. But I don't think with these type
of injuries you can write it in stone. And I
see when I'm like looking at people talking about it,
it's like, oh, yeah, then Jason Satum is gonna come
(29:23):
back and he's gonna be like a top five player.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
I'm just like, oh, okay, let's relax. We don't know that.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
And it sucks that we don't know that obviously, but
having like a Darren Peterson or someone come in instead,
it also kind of safe scars you from, Like if
Tatum is what seventy percent of he used to be, like,
then you have another bite of a top tier potential star.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
So I was just hated for the Celtics to end
up in like I don't know, the ninth seed, or
like to totally stuck in like nowhere, no man's land.
I think at some point, maybe close to the deadline,
they're like, oh, did we just get a good offer
from for Derek White and Anthony Simon's let's go just's
just be super sucky and give Jalen Brown literally all
(30:11):
the shots.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah, I mean the only tricky thing is that they're
in the East, and I mean that's like Washington. Washington
is not like we both are very high on like
the long term prospects of how Washington is building, but
they're not gonna be good this year. Brooklyn's not gonna
(30:33):
be good this year. Charlotte could like at some point
it's gotta work for Charlotte, right, like maybe maybe this
is the year, but probably not.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
The well, I don't know have they traded the middle
Paul yet?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Not yet warm Miles Bridges for that matter, right, the Pacers,
like I think they'll be okay, like they'll smoke and
mirrors their way to thirty five wins probably, but like
they're not gonna be great without Halle.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
So I mean, like, I just don't know if they're
gonna be able to successfully out tank. You know, I
guess they don't have to write. Maybe even if they
make the play in they lose in the plan, they
still get a two percent chance to the lottery.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
And look what happens with the Mavericks.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
And I was about to say, like, when is the
last time you even won the lottery with having the
worst thoughts?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Right? That's right? Wow?
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah, so Adam Silver will just rig it for them anyway.
So yeah, just make the play in losing the plan,
you'll get the number two pick.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
The worst thing is when you say that, I just
know they're like thirty percent of the people listening actually
genuinely believe.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Yeah, of course, right Will? That is accurate? Right?
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Oh God?
Speaker 2 (31:49):
I had Howard Beg on the Danish pod about this
because it bothered me how many people actually bought into
like the conspiracy theory. Because he's he's been behind you know,
the scene, He's seen how the sausage gets me like
three times, and he was just like he almost like
really upset at Like no, like I would have known,
Like I want that story because everyone is also like, oh,
(32:10):
the reporters are in on it and how hard it was, Like, No,
that would make my career if I could uncover that,
like if I could be the ones who exposed the draft, Like,
don't you think that would be something that like, I'm
a bloodhout, I would go for that. It's fair. Okay,
So we agree that Boston will have a hard time?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Yes, has the uh? Before we move on? Has the
story made it over to you guys? About Eric Adams,
the current New York mayor and running to be mayor again.
One of his aids confidants, I don't know what her
official title is, try to bribe a reporter the other
day by sticking money in a potato chip bag.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I saw that on Blue Sky. I haven't seen it
in Danish news. I saw that. That was wild.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I'm wondering what the NBA do they use a potato
chip bag to give reporters of basketball? Like where did
they hide the money for the bribes.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
To keep sell the phone with? Oh? They have to
you know what? I know, let's get deep into this.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
So they have to like they have to hand over
the devices, right, But if you think about it, Brian,
that device doesn't have to be a phone. That could
be like a big tablet too sure. And if you
that tablet might have a cover, you can put more
honeys down there in like the cover of a taplet
than a phone, right right, you.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Know, like in squid game where you get the card
at the end that you can put in the ATM
and you get millions of dollars, maybe they just put
the NBA slips a little credit card in every reporters
phone case. Here's here's ten million dollars. Don't tell anyone
that we put beyond the spurs.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I love how, you know, I could just imagine us
getting aggrogated for this. Poduo exposes the.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Saither that are gonna get swatted and I'm not sure
which is.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Oh god, it's so dumb.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Oh no, But like the East that that's that's a
pretty good pivot point. Honestly, like the East, you know,
I think the NBA is in overall pretty good health.
But again, like the whole ideology of parody, it kind
of falls a little deaf this year. Like, I know
that the NBA really believes in it. Mark Tatum has
(34:32):
told me repeatedly that this is something that they are
just they're in. They they love the idea of a
team being able to win any given year, And I
get that. I get the why that would be attracted
to fans because it makes the game way more unpredictable.
It gives more like it provides more fans worldwide to
a specific team that wins. Like, are we gonna siderate
(34:54):
in and pretend that as if the Thunder didn't just
gain a ton of international fans after winning the title. No, certain,
they absolutely did, And I think that's your strategy moving forward.
But at the same time, you kind of look at
the East and you go, oh, oh, that's bad.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
To the East are like standing there with with like
an MC Bowl. Can we have some parody please.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Like the West is going to help the NBA game fans,
the East is gonna help the NBA lose fans.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, I mean, look at least the East has Kyle
Kusma or something that's great.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Well, I will say, like I think Atlanta is gonna
be yeah, fun and on the rise this year. Orlando
obviously was already on the rise. The Desmond Band acquisition
is going to supercharge them. So like from the standpoint of,
you know, some of the teams that have been kind
of superpowers in recent years or taking a step back.
(35:57):
Boston obviously is Milwaukee is Philly, like who the f
knows just with health but like even I mean, like
I hate the Sixers, to be clear, but like the
just the young guards will be fun. So like there's
even signs of hope for some of these downtrodden teams
(36:20):
like Boston maybe not, but this is I mean, you
just want a title.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Who cares?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
This is a gap year deal with it, Like Indiana,
We'll get to see Matherin and Ben Shephard and bigger roles.
We'll get to see Andrew nem Hard be the full
time point guard. Like they have depth. I think they
really actually you know, are not going to make it
back to the finals obviously, but like right, they will
be able to survive. Detroit on the rise already last year.
(36:46):
We're getting Jade and Ivy back in the fold this year,
so like there's still it will be fun.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
They're just Toronto with Ingram.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
While I didn't love the acquisition, like there, we can't
sit here and and close the door or on them
potentially being better as well. We don't know, like maybe
this is the year the Bulls actually make it to
the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Who knows.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Congratulations Jerry, Oh.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
God, yeah, I thought you were congratulating me. I was
about to get up.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
You two of course, No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
But it's funny though, because you said I hate the Sixers.
Remember when we started this podcast like nine years ago,
Like I was a Bullskuy, you were a Sixers guy.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Both of them are like nah, we're leaving that text
message on Brett now.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Like okay, we've realized things about our respective ownership groups.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Like if they hit them on the phone, like you up,
Like nope.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Nope, no, nope, sorry watching the Thunder.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I'm I'm watching Spurs.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yeah, well that's it. I think like you could make
a pretty realistic case that at least the two best teams,
if not the three best teams, are all in the
West this year. I mean, like, I guess we'll see
where Cleveland and New York fit in there. But like, okay, see,
obviously I think Denver, with all the movies they made,
are better than any team in the East. I think, honestly,
(38:10):
the Rockets are probably gonna be better than any team
in the East.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I don't know. I think you're sleeping on Cleveland a
little bit though, Like I could be.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
I could be.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I thought everyone was a little quick after they got bounced, right,
Like they came off sixty four wins and they were
injured like right at the start of the Pacers series
and whatnot, and it was a bad matchup. So like
I'm not saying that they don't deserve criticism, but like
the immediate reaction was, oh.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Well, then you've got to tear it down. I'm like,
you did this.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
This was year one of Kenny Atkinson first and foremost,
Like you just won sixty four games, and the relationship
between Garland and and Donovan Mitchell was finally like those
two weren't like not friends or anything, but like the
actual basketball fit, which was a little strange that got
figured out, Like the relationship between Evan Mobley and Jared
(38:57):
Allen that got figured out. Like think that it's such
a quick trigger to go like into this immediate spiel
of oh, now you've got to break things off, Like
now now you've got to start over, like seriously after
sixty four wins and like playing that way in the
regular season, and let's also not forget like well they should,
(39:17):
but they still did ever, like they spank the Heats
into oblivion in the first round, like they did what
they were supposed to do. Then they lost to the Pacers,
who also felt like they had this team of destiny
vibe over them like something. I'm the Pacers are now
irrelevant for this season. Like this just means all the
more reason.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
To kind of believe that the Cavaliers are going to
come out of the East. I would suspect.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yeah, I mean I think it's either them or the
next or the clear front runners, right, yeah, I mean,
like I have every reasona believe the Caves are gonna
win fifty plus games again, and I think they are very,
very good. I guess my two concerns with them are
one which Fisher touched upon earlier today. I think they
(40:04):
have one or two open roster spots already and they're
not planning on let me see how he phrased it.
Cleveland has two open roster spots, but they're expected to
leave their fifteenth roster spot open given their hefty luxury
tax bill. They're also likely to attempt to sign a
fourteenth player on a non guaranteed contract because of those
(40:26):
tax concerns. So you know, we'll see who they get
for the fourteenth spot, right, But I just worry that
their financial situation is going to force them into that
kind of fork in the wrong moment at some point soon. Yeah,
And I mean, you know, if we're saying like youth
(40:46):
and depth of the way to go, They've got plenty
of youth. But you know, Lonzo, I hope to god
he stays healthy, but I'm not going to bank on that.
And so what happened. You know, we're going in the
season with fourteen guys, one guy on a not guaranteed contract.
If we have a couple of injuries. You know, I
(41:09):
really really like their top six, top seven, top eight,
But beyond that, you know, I don't know that they
have the same type of depth to whip stand the
full eighty two game season, right And if they do, now,
are they gonna make it to the playoffs in one piece?
Or do we see a repeat of what happened this
(41:29):
past year?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Well, I mean, look, they succeed in not playing their
guys a lot of minutes this last season, right, and
they lost Tydrome all right, fair enough, so like you've
got to stretch Garland and Mitchell's minutes probably a little bit.
But it also felt like they put away teams pretty early. Yeah,
Like if they can do that again to some extent,
(41:53):
I want to say, then who cares who mops the
floor in the fourth quarter in a way like yeah, yeah,
but I hear you though, like if you lose a
rotation player, which I definitely was, like, you're gonna have
to make up for that, and lonso as we like
I don't even know where I put the over under
in terms of like hope for Lonso, Like I'm probably
(42:16):
a little bit more skeptical at this point, even though
I think highly off of the Messa player, Like I
might consider just a freaking win if he plays forty games, like.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
That's for sure. Yeah, I mean it sucks, but I
feel like anything you get from him is icing on
the cake. But if you're going into the season expecting
a lot out of him.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, exactly, that's that's a good way of reason.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
So like Acoro wasn't really a huge factor. I mean
he was tenth in total minutes for him last year,
So like not a huge loss there, I mean right
that Yeah, like Jordan Yang they traded for a little vert,
so I mean it's so that was another loss though, that.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, Avert, Yeah, Lavert in Detroit, that's true. Well, Malik
Beastly just got cleared.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
More or less, that's right.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Maybe that's the trade that that actually would be a
pretty good fit.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
I mean they're already what, yeah, nineteen million over the
second apron, so if they can get him on a
Men deal.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Right, I mean, look how much money out there?
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Okay, there are some teams that can dig into their exceptions,
that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
And Brooklyn still has a decent amount, that's true. That's
an homeboy might have some debts to pay off from
based on the reporting that's come out, since.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
There was a lot there was.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Yeah, I don't know if a Mind deal is going
to cut it.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Unfortunately, There's one more thing that I've been thinking about,
and this is a major pivot as well. So the
Christmas Day games, why they like, I get that, you
that Cooper flag is exciting, but like outside of that,
the MAVs on Christmas Day, the MAVs Brian.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
I think was on vacation last week when these came out,
So I'm not even convinced I've seen the Christmas Day
Let me see, let me see this.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Most of them, like the five, like four out of
the five games are nice, like though, like properly filled
out with good teams that make sense and everything.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Oh right, right right, okay, yeah I do remember this now, Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
The MAVs just seems so oddly placed in that lineup
of teams because you just know there's no certainty that
Anthony Davis is playing at that point. You just don't know,
like you're, what thirty percent into the season, like he
could have beat day to day at that point, Kyrie
I don't think has returned, and if he has, he's
(44:46):
like probably a shall of himself at that point before
he's like getting ramped up. It's like, Merry Christmas, guys,
go watch the Angel Russell pull up from eight scene.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
What I mean, we're done to deserve that.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
I I think I know why they did it this way.
I'm assuming they did Rockets Lakers because this will be
like one of the last lebron kdi showdowns. Yeah yeah,
but like Rockets and Warriors, you could have just switched
the Rockets and the Mavericks both his road teams and
done Rockets Warriors with Katie going back to Golden State,
(45:24):
and then Mavericks Lakers with Luca versus the Mavericks and
Adi versus the Lakers. Like it felt like there was
that is such a layup and they probably don't want
to like lean into the hostility angle on Christmas Day,
I guess, but man, I mean like those would have
been more fun made for TV matchups.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Right yeah. Yeah. And also it's the third game on
the docket, Like if you want to show them MAVs,
put them at the ten forty slot, like push them
yea all the way to the latest one. Like oh
but that just that just kind.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Of weirded me out that they you would put the
mask there, Like again, if it's the Cooper flag effect
and that's it, Like if that's the only thing the
NBA thought of when making this, you know, making the schedule,
they were like Christmas Day flag cool, Okay, you know what,
sold I get it. It's just everything around it. It's like,
(46:23):
could you I'm just imagining like a Christmas Day where
they're trying to say Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Klay Thompson
and like two of the three armed playing and play
is like struggling to run up and down the floor.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Right yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean you're totally right, Like
Iray is not.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Going to be back by then.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
I don't think I would be.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Shocked, Like, yeah, there's there's a non zero chance that
the leading score from the mass in that game is
like Jadeen Hardy.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
I guess who would you have put in place of them?
Assuming Rockets get moved over to the Warriors.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Well, I mean okay, so it would have to be
basically a West team.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Like the Clippers. I mean, why not Harden Beal, cp
Kawhi maybe right, Like I know the again, you know
that's that's never a certainty as well, the trade for
John Collins, Like the Clippers are deep and fun, like
they should be fun at least, like there's a lot
of like name recognition there. I would watch that.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah yeah, I mean, I'm I'm surprised that the NBA
is gonna frustrate me because they're not gonna market Orlando
and Atlanta as much as they should be this year,
and I'm gonna be really bummed.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
But I also want to see them first though.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
You do, Like, well, welcome to the NBA on Prime
or whatever. Here we have Franz Wackner who's hitting twenty.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Yeah right, well, but like this is this is gonna
be a bigger issue for the NBA in the coming
years if they continue to market the league as they
have where they're like so still fixated on the steph
Katie lebron Era.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
What wait, you don't appeal to young young like young
people by pushing forty year olds, is that what they're saying?
Speaker 3 (48:28):
Right, Like, there is a I mean like Wemby is
obviously breaking through, Luca broke through and broke through. Yeah,
Flag presumably will, but like, I don't think Paolo has.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
To a national level yet.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
No, No, Hollie did because of the playoffs and because
of the end season tournament.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Tatum did too, but nobody cared because he's so boring.
I'm sorry, he's just yeah, he's boring.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
We made that the nicest way possible.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah, yes, yeah, and it's that's a good thing because
rather boring than go all John moraned, Right, I.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Mean right, let's be real. Yeah yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
But I hear you, like it's but is Orlando just
difficult to market?
Speaker 3 (49:12):
You think, Yeah, they might be like I mean, like,
I mean, Paolo would be the guy to do eventually.
But yeah, I mean they might be more of like
the mid twenty ten's Hawks, where it's like the summons
greater than the parts.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
So it's like Paul millsap Al Horford, Kyle Korver, Demy Carroll,
jenf Z.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah, yeah, the player of the month where it was
just the whole starting line holes.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
And wait they did they not?
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Also four of them make the same All Star team,
and Demark Carroll was just like waving on the outside like, Hi, guys,
I couldn't get.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
In, That's right. Yeah yeah, but yeah, I mean I
guess you're right, like they want to market Cooper Flag
as part of that. But yeah, the like the pairings,
just I just wish they flipped the pairings if nothing else, Yeah,
the same Nico Harrison would have had a lovely Christmas.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
So ah, how the over under on how many close.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
Ups, especially because it's in LA he would not have
gone presumably, right, I hope, I mean maybe maybe he
would have. Actually, he's probably a hero in that city. Yeah,
you know, just twenty thousand thank you NCO signs.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
But you're right it should have been it should have
been mass Lakers at least that would have been understandable.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Like I understand that.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
At the same time, you know, to your point, the
league doesn't want to be all like, let's get the
animosity up around Christmas. But as a as a viewer,
as an NBA pundit give me all the drama, man,
even a Christmas like alast fight at Christmas.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
That's right, And like Rockets Warriors beyond just like Ky
going back to Golden State angle, like Katie versus Jimmy Butler,
I'm in Thompson versus Stephan Curry. Yeah, yeah, like that
from an on court perspective, and I mean, hell Lebron
James versus Cooper Flag.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
That'd be fun. Yeah, there are so many subplots.
Speaker 3 (51:24):
Yeah, right, Like we wouldn't even need to lean into
the off court mess. I mean maybe that is it, though,
like maybe I don't know. I mean, I guess we'll
see how how if at all the league like marketing
and like these new national TV contracts, like this could
be an interesting subplot this season. If the way that
(51:44):
the game is marketed from the major media outlets showing
these games is different. And if like the NBA wants
to dial back on the focus on the messiness and
like the off court stuff and the trade rumor and
like they want, I would think they would want people
to focus more on the actual on court product, like
(52:05):
they in an ideal world, I'm sure they would prefer
the NBA is covered like the NFL is. Yes, so maybe,
like I can't tell.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
You where I have this from, but I can confirm
your your theory.
Speaker 3 (52:21):
Okay, So like you know, maybe this new Amazon panel
does a much better job of that than.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
Which looks amazing. Yeah the way, oh my god, it.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Was like Blake Dirk, who else they got?
Speaker 1 (52:37):
They just they just got John wall too.
Speaker 3 (52:39):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, like I and.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
And like Taylor Brooks hand like it's just basically what
do you call administrating everything?
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Like what the host? The host? That the Arnie Yeah
like that that is just that OOS is quality throughout.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
I love that. So no, it's it's gonna be interesting.
I'm look, I'm still.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Gonna be a soucker for trade rumors though, I mean.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
I mean always like that's where our broken brains are.
But but like I you know, I think I would
imagine at least the NBA would prefer it to not
be so off court driven. But like, yeah, that also
speaks to a much larger problem that they have no
(53:28):
control over in that you know, so many fans are
on social media, and like, that's what the algorithms are
feeding people. So that's what. Yeah, that's what they're gonna
get fat on.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
Among a lot of other things that they're feeding.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Right right, right right.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Well, Brian, thank you so much for for jumping on.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
And that was this was first the first episode of
Shooting the Bleep and this hopefully is gonna be a
returning segment.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Look, let's just be real about this. This is our
eleventh season with this pot gotta try something new occasionally,
that's right, Just like in life, sometimes you got to
try something else. And I hope to see you back
soon because you know you now you you're a year
past the birth of your second child.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Now you've grown a little bit accustomed to the everyday
life of having two little rascals, which, speaking of someone
who's the father of two rascals myself, it.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Sucks, but.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
That's correct. Don't do it. If you are listening and
you have zero or one kid. Congratulations, stop while you're ahead.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
Yeah, obviously we don't mean that if our wives were listening,
and that that we love our children. It was so
nice to talk to you, Bud, and uh, well, I'll
talk to you next time.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
Sounds good. Thank you as always for having me looking
forward to the shooting.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
More bleep with you for everyone listening in.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Thank you for doing so, and until we talk again,
stay safe everyone,
Hi, my name is Morton Jensen and you're listening to
the NBA Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hi, and welcome to the NBA Podcast. My name is
Morton Jensen, and today we're launching and yes, I said we.
I'll get back to that in a second. We are
launching a new thing here on the show. We're launching
something called Shooting the Bleep, and that is basically a
free flowing conversation where we have no idea what topics
(00:40):
will be covered, which players will be mentioned. It is
basically what is coming to mind as we talk, as
we interact, and basically where the status quote the NBA
is of today. So nothing in terms of preparation. And
when I say we, it's very important to note that
the only person in the world who I would do
(01:01):
this particular series with is my old podcast buddy Brian Saborik.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Brian, how are you, sir?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I am good, Thank you for having me back. Good
to be back as always, excited to shoot the bleep
with you. Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, absolutely So.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I'm just gonna ask you in terms of, like the
past couple of weeks has something like stuck in your
mind about the league some a new tendency, a player
who you're like interested in in figuring more out in
terms of like next year, like just something that's tiggled
your fancy.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah. Well, I've got a real sicko project that I'm
not gonna spoil right now, but I should be coming
out sometime next week. I actually actually two sicko projects,
so have me back on in the next week or two,
and one one that I will be writing and then
one that I ideated and farmed out to a mutual
(01:59):
friend of ours that will be coming out Monday.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Nice.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
So yeah, lots to come there, but I don't want
to I don't want to spell what we can revisit
those down the line. I'd say two things. One the
darn Fox extension. Yeah, caught me not off guard, but
I just think the contrast between what's happening or what
(02:25):
happened with him where he got the max extension a
day after he was eligible, and then Trey Young not
getting an extension yet not seemingly close to getting an
extension yet. So I just think it's it's interesting to
compare those two right because I'm not sure which side
(02:49):
is right or wrong, or if there is even if
there is a right around Like both teams are in
different situations, so it might be that you know, both
are right given their current financial setups. But I find
it interesting, you know, in the larger league context of
like I have been wondering since this new CBA came about,
(03:10):
since teams are starting to feel the full ramifications of
the second apron, like will it change who is quote
unquote a full max player? And you know, I think
under the old CBA, Trey Young would have been a
full max player. I feel like he very likely would
(03:32):
be extended by now if we were operating under the
CBA from two or three years ago. Right, So Fox
getting that extension, Like I don't know that he's a
full max player in the CBA whereas you know, so
that that's That's what's caught my attention lately, is just
(03:55):
like the difference between those two and why the Spurs
were willing to do it and the Hawks were not.
So I'd be curious to pick your brain about that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah. No, So I'm right there with you.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
When I saw that contract extension, I was a little
flabbric astid, especially like you brought it up in terms
of like how close it came about. I still think
that if Luca hadn't signed the extension immediately, I think
the Spurs would have tried to like hold off a
little bit because who could offer him a better situation
(04:29):
next year if he went into like unrestrictive free agency. Yeah,
I mean, look, you call him up and you go,
you'd say one word, actually a name, you just say, Wempy.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That's your pitch, that's your whole pitch.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
But when Luca went off the board, I think the
Spurs were like, Okay, then let's lock in Fox because
at the very least he's probably more tradeable with having
more years.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Attached to him.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But then that circles back to the interesting conversation, is
he more tradeable now now that he's on a four
percent max? So it becomes one of those things where
you know he actively wanted to go there. I think
there's something there that also where he kind of deserves
a little bit of loyalty points in that perspective. But
(05:14):
I also think for the Spurs, and I think you
and I've talked about this before, they're allowed to be selective,
like it's it's wemby, Like they can't just say, oh,
a certain player wants to be here, Oh, let's lock
him up immediately. You and I have also talked before
about high fox this last year, not not this past year,
but the twenty three twenty four year. You know, that's
(05:36):
when he had strong three point shooting year. He was
taking per game, hitting thirty seven percent. But so far
that's the historic outlier. Everything else has been well, pretty bleepy,
to be quite frank, It's been bad.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's been very bad.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And do you really want to invest a full max
into a guy who's not a natural shooter? That's that's
a tough sell for me, especially in this day and age. Like,
I'm not saying he won't offer tremendous like transition opportunities.
He's a good defender, he's an underrated rebounder for his
size as well. The mid rain shot we know he's got.
(06:17):
But when things gets tough and it's like turns into
a playoff context and you just need the floor spacing,
do we trust him to become and deliver at a
full max number of thirty percent. I don't know the
answer to that, And I think it's such a reasonable
thing that you bring it up.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, And I think so. I wrote about it Forbes
first about Trey and then I think actually just published
the thing today on Fox, and I think it might
just boil down to where the two teams are financially
in that you know, Wemby's not even extension audible till
next year, so his extension won't start until twenty seven,
(06:59):
twenty eight, Stephan Castle not till the year after that,
and then Dylan Harper obviously just starting his rookie sales extension,
so he's got a four year window before they really
need to worry about you know, oh my god, Fox, Wemby, Harper,
and Castle will all be off their rookie deals at
which point that will not be financially sustainable, and so
they've got like, realistically a two year window. I would
(07:21):
say probably by the time Castle is extension eligible, or
definitely by the time Harper's extension eligible, they're going to
want to decide. You know, we're probably not keeping all
three of Castle, Harper and Darren Fox. But Fox was
just the first one up. So that's that's what we
had to We just had to make the decision now
because we we did not want to risk losing him
(07:42):
to unrestricted free agency next year. I mean, he could
have signed him at any time, So you know, part
of me was wondering, like do they wait to go
into the season to see how he fits with these
new pieces and see, like, you know, if it becomes
clear that Harper and Castle are the guys they want
to build around. To your point, like is Fox on
(08:04):
the thirty percent max? Like does that hurt or help
his trade value? I don't know, Like teams will prefer
the longer term security, but it's just hard to take
on long term money, especially like you know, I think
Fox is gonna have a great year playing next to Wemby.
I mean, Wenby is just an amplifier for everyone, especially
(08:24):
a point guard. So I'm not really concerned about the
near term. It's the longer term. You know, we've seen
these guards like if they lose half a step, he's
not an elite three point shooter by any means. So, like,
you know, do do you find yourself in a situation
three years from now where say the Denver Nuggets did
with Michael Porter Junior this summer, where like MPJ is
(08:46):
still a really good player just on that contract, wound
up needing to attach an unprotected distant first round pick
to get off of him to trade for Cameron Johnson.
So like maybe they can get you know, trade Deer
and Fox on the road, but are you going to
get significant positive value for him or do you have
to attach stuff to get someone else in his place
(09:07):
that might fit better with your castle? Harper wenby Core.
Where's that the Hawks already have Jalen Johnson signed to
a long term deal. You know, Dyson Daniels is up
for an extension between now and October. Porzingis is also
in the last year of his deal. You know, I
don't think Porzingis is getting anywhere near a max, especially
(09:29):
like he's he's very good, was like the X factor
for a championship team. What's fourteen months ago, but you know,
especially with all the health concerns his age, Like wouldn't
shock me if he's right around thirty million. So part
of me wonders if they're just kind of waiting, Like,
let's negotiate with Dyson Daniels first, Let's see if we
(09:51):
can get Chris Stop signed to an extension, Like see
where these other pieces fall, right, and then you circle
back to Trey because the one thing they won't want
to do is, you know, find themselves in second Apron
prison in the next couple of years. So they just
have some like longer term salary on their books and
they've got some big other financial decisions coming up, whereas
(10:11):
the Spurs just don't really. I mean, like Harrison Barnes
is gonna is an expiring contract and like I think,
uh Sohan is up for.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
An extension for an extension too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, but like I mean he's not I don't think
he's gonna break the bank necessarily, so like they just
have more.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Do you think he's even on the roster like after
the trade deadline?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, Like I struggle to see the.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Spurs like like wanting to deal with like a restricted
free agency mess with him, like he's good, but like
there's a limit.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, I mean, like I don't I don't know if
anyone's gonna throw him a huge bag. Like I think
this is this will get kind of dovetail into the
other big thing. I'm wondering. But you know, like right
now we're at this standstill with the four big restricted
free agents this summer. Like I'm not convinced that this
is how it's going to be moving forward. I think
(11:10):
this was kind of an outlier summer and that really
it was the Nets and nobody else had cap space.
Whereas next year more teams are currently projected to a
lot will change in the next year, right, you know,
I don't think like eight teams are going to enter
next offseason with max cap space. I would be surprised
by that. But I think more teams will have financial
(11:32):
flexibility next summer than they did this year. That said,
or any of them. Like you say, all right, I'm
gonna throw thirty million dollars a year, Jeremy Sohan, That's
how I'm using my financial flexibility. Probably not I would not.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
As I mean, the free agent class is like already
getting pretty thin though, like I mean Luca off the market,
Darren Fox off the market. I mean KD presumably is
gonna stay in Houston. Lebron who knows, like zach Lavine
is not turning down his forty nine million dollar player option.
I don't think. I mean Trey if he doesn't come
(12:13):
to terms with Atlanta, is the big name. But yeah,
like Fox is off the markets, like c J. McCollum, Middleton,
Christaps porzingis, Tobias Harris, Anthony Simon's I mean, there are names.
Ron I'm just going down the list of highest paid players.
Unfortunately he is not quite as high as he used
(12:36):
to be, with still pretty eye up there. But yeah,
I mean, they're just like there are a lot of
you know, decent fourth or fifth men, but there it's
we're short on star power already, right, especially if some
of the big names stay put as expected. So yeah,
I'm I'm curious where the Spurs go with him, because
(12:57):
I think they are. I mean, to me, it seems
like they are already doing what okay se did a
couple of years ago with like they structured their contracts
for lou Dort and Isaiah Hartenstein, specifically with Jalen Williams
and Chet Holmgren in mind, they like built escape hatches
into those contracts, knowing these guys we're about to get
(13:18):
a lot more expensive in twenty six twenty seven, and
we need to have some financial flexibility here, so the
Spurs won't be we won't get really expensive until like
twenty eight, twenty nine, or even twenty nine to thirty,
but they're already starting to build some escape hatches, Like
Louke Cornett's contract descends each year, not fully guaranteed in
(13:43):
twenty seven twenty eight, which is when Wemby's new deal
will kick in. Who is the other one they did,
Oh Devin Vessel right, twenty seven million, twenty seven million.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Art.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, so like they're they're aware that Wemby not that
only is going to get a twenty five percent max,
but like probably going to get a thirty percent mass.
Like he plays sixty five games, he's getting a thirty
percent mass.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And like it also feels like with the Spurs there's
another shoot to drop because right now they're paying twenty
four and a half million this year for backup centers.
That smells a little off to me, that that seems
a little unsustainable. That like that feels to me that
like there's something brewing near the tradeadline in some capacity
(14:31):
because they still have draft picks, they still have money
to or not sorry, money like assets to go burn
through if they want to like go out and match
salary stuff, like they can make another piece and look,
if you want to add more money, Hi, Kilton Johnson
and you're seventeen and a half million a year, which
more than several teams would say, Yeah, that's fine for Kelton,
(14:52):
that's cool.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Did you see Jake Fisher drop something earlier today that
said thank you, I believe if he said they were
one of the teams that has reached out to New
Orleans about trade.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, I saw that. I saw that.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
The tray that is is funny because Dan Favalley and
I who podcasted a lot recently, have like kind of
said that's the player for them, for the Spurs specifically,
and it just it makes so much sense.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
And they can get to his money very to your point,
like yeah, Kelly linnok and Harrison Barnes Colin Johnson, like
it's got to be those two one of the But
I mean that gets you to get thirty plus million
and trays it twenty five.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Is twenty five.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, I mean you could go if you just wanted
to make it like a like a draft picks oriented,
you know, value alignment, you could go Barnes and so
hand more or less.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, that gets you there. Like, yeah, they have the Spurs.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
That's something I think flyes on of the radar a
little bit with San Antonio. It's all in like the
midsier contracts that they have, which like some teams prefer
to spend big on certain players and then they kind
kind of go down a little bit further down. For
this PERSA had this many like mixture contracts that has
to be viewed as an acid, especially under this CBA.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Mm hmm, yeah, I think so. I mean, like Rick
Carlisle just gave an interview with the goat Caitlin Cooper
recently where he's talking about like he didn't say big
threes are dead, but he kind of alluded to it. Yeah,
he said, like, you know, youth and depth are kind
(16:34):
of the ways to go moving forward. So I mean
we've been talking about this long before the new CBA,
but really the new CBA like kind of forced team's
hands in that regard them. Yeah, you know, I mean, like, okay,
see might be the rare example, and like san Antonio
(16:54):
in a couple of years could also be the outlier
where if you've built rebuilt really well that you are
able to sustain a big three for a little while.
But like, I think the more long term sustainable approach
is the two stars in depth and then like having
these mid tier contracts to your point where you can
(17:17):
reshuffle some pieces as needed. And even Trey Murphy like
if if you get him at twenty five million, he's
not I mean, what is that percentage of the cap
this year?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Six sixty point two and he only goes up by
two million a year, So it like he's such a cheap,
cheap contract Like that might be a very natural pivot point, honestly,
because like Trey's contract, I think also is such an
ascid for the Pelicans that I understand why Pels fans,
all five of them, are like.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
That was cool.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Look he's cruel because my friends are two of them.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
We know, yeah, but look if they look this year,
someone has to have just gone off the wagon, right,
like they must have just jumped ship. But like I
understand their point is like, no, you can't trade Tray unless,
like you also get the team to pay for the
contract that he has, so you're not only paying for
(18:16):
the player, you're actually also relinquishing assets to get you know,
Tray's specifically tailored contract onto the books, which I think
is a great point. Like that is such a good
especially under this CBA, Like now contracts, like the volume
of the contracts, the value rather of the contracts they
themselves can now be such an asset that you can
(18:39):
force teams to fork up additional draft picks or young
players or whatever you want to say, Okay, you want
this good ass contract.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
It's why I.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Still think the Bulls just completely messed up by not
trading Kobe White like when they had because when he
not this season, but going into the last season, a
team could have traded for him and had him for
two playoff years at what twelve million a year? Like
you could have ad you could have set your own
price on that. And I think that is probably what
(19:08):
we're gonna be seeing with this new CBA. I think
we're gonna see more and more teams have guys who
are on great deals who are like beginning to flirt
with the idea of pivoting off of them because they
could just get something excellent. Like are we now I'm
really gonna pivot hard here? Are we going to close
the door on the Blazers? For example, saying, all right,
(19:30):
so what would you give us for Danny and his
dissenting contract that ends at like ten point eight million
or something ridiculous? Mm hmm, Man, I don't know the
answers to that, like maybe.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's gonna be really interesting how
teams like balance because like the Blazers in theory are
feeling very good right now about how they ended last year, yeah,
and are gonna like not want to do that because
they want to continue taking steps forward, right, and that
would be a big step backward, like the Pelicans with
(20:06):
Trey Murphy. You know, I think a lot obviously depends
on Zion's health for the umpteenth time, but.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
His soft court issues.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah, right, But like if if at any point, I mean,
it could go one of two ways. They could decide
to just cut bait on Zion completely and just say
like screw it, we need to just fully rebuild now
and let's get what we can for Trey Murphy and
or Jones and like let's really embrace the suck for
a couple of years. I know there's some like financial
(20:35):
ramifications for them, and like can they sustain a franchise
in New Orleans when like can you rebuild to that extent?
I don't know, especially with all the expansions talk like that.
There's a lot of reasons why they might be reluctant
to do that, but maybe they go that route, or
(20:56):
if they cut it on Zion, say like all right,
we're building around Trey Murphy moving forward. I think you
can certainly make a case like remove the will New
Orleans still have a basketball team from the equation, because
I think that's a totally separate conversation, and like you
could certainly make a case that this Pelicans team is
going nowhere and that they should be willing to you know,
(21:18):
Trey Murphy, you were gonna get probably a pretty massive
hall for right now.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Well, there is dependence.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Do you trust your Dumores to make that trade? I'm
not trying to make right exactly, Like I'm not even
trying to be funny, Like I just don't trust Dumores
to make that.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Deal, right right?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
No, no, again.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
I feel this needs to be reiterated because it happened
a few months ago. Now the Hawks called them back
to like ask them, is this literally the package you're
offering us?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Is this actually it? Like they had to double check Bride.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah, yeah, for good reason. I mean, just truly insane.
One of the most insane things I've seen in a
long time.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Like, right, we just.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Haven't had we haven't had a trade like that other
than Luca deal obviously, Like that, I felt like a
relic from like two thousand and seven. Yeah, where teams
used to do that crap all the time?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah? Right? Was it?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Was it the Kyrie selection the King courtesy of the
Clippers because they wanted Baron Davis.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
And and well, I mean, look that probably fits with Joe.
I mean when did he win the title with Detroit.
It was two thousand and four. That's that's roughly the
same era.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, he just never he just never quite.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Hey man, Darryl Morriing might be operating in that time too,
so I can't make too much fun. Oh certainly not
operating twin twenty five right now.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, I mean you're becoming an Oklahoma City Thunder super fan,
so you.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Know that's already there, already there. All these all these
years of Thunder blogging really paid off for me this year.
I got to see the Eagles and the thunderwent a
title like I'm Good.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I forget thought about that.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
That was the second title for the Birds, right, that is,
right in recent years?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, yeah, no, I still remember the first one where your.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
What where your wife sends me a video of you
drunk off your ass.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, this one was more controlled, no, because we were
this was just a straight belt to ass the whole time.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
So I didn't have to like your parents.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Sure, yeah right, having my four year old watching it
with me, certainly. I mean, if this one went as
closely contested as the twenty seventeen one was, he would
have been in bed at halftime, because we would not.
We're lucky that this one was just a nice, easy
blowout win for the Eagles, no sweat after the second quarter.
(24:03):
But yes, it's been a lovely year. If you just
forget the Philadelphia seventy six ers exists.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, no, I try to. I acted me too.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So let's take a quick commercial break and let's beep
back with more random thoughts in shooting the bleep. All right, right, So,
one thing that I've been thinking about lately is and
this is controversial, and I put this out on my
Danish podcast and the response was very mixed. Some were like, oh,
(24:35):
that's a good idea. Some were like what the f
are you doing? Like, don't even put that bad voodoo
on me. The Celtics like not Tatum. Obviously, they're trying
to save money. They're trying to like basically take a
gap year, so to speak. They have their own draft pick.
(24:56):
They are also three players who could all turn into
ranchise caliber cornerstones in this upcoming twenty twenty six draft.
I made the claim, or not the claim, but I
came up with the idea the Celtics should just not
prioritize getting front court this year, and so far that
seems to be like the approach that they that they
(25:18):
have regard right and if they end up in the
deep lottery that might actually be a.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Good thing for them. Am I wrong here? Is it
too big of a gamble?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Is it too big of a risk to just basically
tell Jalen Brown and Anfony Simon's take fifty shots per game?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Please?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
I don't think so. I mean, they're certainly not trying
to put their best foot forward to win this year,
right like they are clearly. I mean, there is no
Celtics fan that can argue they're motivated by winning this year,
and I don't, especially in the wake of the Tatum injury.
They shouldn't be because they aren't gonna win without Jason Tatum.
(26:02):
And like salary dumping and Drew Holliday and christopsporzingis I
mean they just salary dumped George Niang as well.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Like it.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
To me, it seems like not only are they concerned
about the Aprons, that they're trying to duck the tax entirely. So, like,
I do not think Anthony Simons is on this team.
After the trade deadline, they will flip him for a
much cheaper player. They're twelve ish million over the tax
right now, so you know, it might be like a
(26:32):
Russian Nesting Dolls type move with Simons where they like
trade him for a twenty two million dollar player and
then trade the twenty two. But like, he's not long
for Boston.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I mean, will you take Anthony Simons for Terrence Man?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Terrence Man is untouchable. He can't be traded, right, be serious?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Was that two years ago? That Proclamation game? Yes?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yes, it was.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Oh god.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I mean, like, I like the Chris Bouchet signing was
nice for you know, a minimum contract. Like, they've got
a bunch of guys that you might as well just
see what you have in them. This is just kind
of a reset year for them and they can see
like if any of these depth pieces make sense for
them moving forward, Like if you have something in Baylor Shireman,
(27:25):
then you've got him under contract for three more years
and he's cheap. That's great, but.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
He's shooting guard. He will have to play the four here.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
That's true. Well, Jalen Brown will be playing the four.
It'll be just Derek White, Simon's Peyton Pritrut will be Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Are we were like, can we lock in that Sam
Houser was going to play center?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I mean it's at some point.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You have to. I mean, they have a bunch of centers.
Actually they're just we don't know if any of them
are good. But I mean they have Xavier Tillman, Luca
Garza Quita, They've got Bouchet who can I mean, smaller
than the typical center, but like they've got and.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Like Jordan Walsh in a pinch, I guess sure.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Sure they have Amari Williams on a two way deal.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
We got a lot of tremendous size. Love it.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah, yeah, but I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
It's just it's.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It's when you think of the players like that could
come in, right, and it's it's twofold, like if you
do get this high draft pick and if like somehow
you put yourself in a position where you at least
can jump up and jump into like the top three.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
It's you.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
You safeguard yourself something here first and foremost you're like,
you may actually get a real star who's young, cheap,
which would help their cap sheet moving forward. But secondly,
and this might be a little bit more of the
unspoken thing, we don't know how Jason Tatum is gonna
look when he gets back. Like I understand that KD
came back. I understand the players who come back from
(28:59):
this injury.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I get it. I'm not saying that I'm.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Sitting here thinking that Jason Tatum will be a shelvy himself,
like I hope not like I hope that he'll be
back to being just the regular ass self that he
used to be. But I don't think with these type
of injuries you can write it in stone. And I
see when I'm like looking at people talking about it,
it's like, oh, yeah, then Jason Satum is gonna come
(29:23):
back and he's gonna be like a top five player.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
I'm just like, oh, okay, let's relax. We don't know that.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
And it sucks that we don't know that obviously, but
having like a Darren Peterson or someone come in instead,
it also kind of safe scars you from, Like if
Tatum is what seventy percent of he used to be, like,
then you have another bite of a top tier potential star.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
So I was just hated for the Celtics to end
up in like I don't know, the ninth seed, or
like to totally stuck in like nowhere, no man's land.
I think at some point, maybe close to the deadline,
they're like, oh, did we just get a good offer
from for Derek White and Anthony Simon's let's go just's
just be super sucky and give Jalen Brown literally all
(30:11):
the shots.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah, I mean the only tricky thing is that they're
in the East, and I mean that's like Washington. Washington
is not like we both are very high on like
the long term prospects of how Washington is building, but
they're not gonna be good this year. Brooklyn's not gonna
(30:33):
be good this year. Charlotte could like at some point
it's gotta work for Charlotte, right, like maybe maybe this
is the year, but probably not.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
The well, I don't know have they traded the middle
Paul yet?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Not yet warm Miles Bridges for that matter, right, the Pacers,
like I think they'll be okay, like they'll smoke and
mirrors their way to thirty five wins probably, but like
they're not gonna be great without Halle.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
So I mean, like, I just don't know if they're
gonna be able to successfully out tank. You know, I
guess they don't have to write. Maybe even if they
make the play in they lose in the plan, they
still get a two percent chance to the lottery.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
And look what happens with the Mavericks.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
And I was about to say, like, when is the
last time you even won the lottery with having the
worst thoughts?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Right? That's right? Wow?
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah, so Adam Silver will just rig it for them anyway.
So yeah, just make the play in losing the plan,
you'll get the number two pick.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
The worst thing is when you say that, I just
know they're like thirty percent of the people listening actually
genuinely believe.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Yeah, of course, right Will? That is accurate? Right?
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Oh God?
Speaker 2 (31:49):
I had Howard Beg on the Danish pod about this
because it bothered me how many people actually bought into
like the conspiracy theory. Because he's he's been behind you know,
the scene, He's seen how the sausage gets me like
three times, and he was just like he almost like
really upset at Like no, like I would have known,
Like I want that story because everyone is also like, oh,
(32:10):
the reporters are in on it and how hard it was, Like, No,
that would make my career if I could uncover that,
like if I could be the ones who exposed the draft, Like,
don't you think that would be something that like, I'm
a bloodhout, I would go for that. It's fair. Okay,
So we agree that Boston will have a hard time?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Yes, has the uh? Before we move on? Has the
story made it over to you guys? About Eric Adams,
the current New York mayor and running to be mayor again.
One of his aids confidants, I don't know what her
official title is, try to bribe a reporter the other
day by sticking money in a potato chip bag.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I saw that on Blue Sky. I haven't seen it
in Danish news. I saw that. That was wild.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I'm wondering what the NBA do they use a potato
chip bag to give reporters of basketball? Like where did
they hide the money for the bribes.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
To keep sell the phone with? Oh? They have to
you know what? I know, let's get deep into this.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
So they have to like they have to hand over
the devices, right, But if you think about it, Brian,
that device doesn't have to be a phone. That could
be like a big tablet too sure. And if you
that tablet might have a cover, you can put more
honeys down there in like the cover of a taplet
than a phone, right right, you.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Know, like in squid game where you get the card
at the end that you can put in the ATM
and you get millions of dollars, maybe they just put
the NBA slips a little credit card in every reporters
phone case. Here's here's ten million dollars. Don't tell anyone
that we put beyond the spurs.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I love how, you know, I could just imagine us
getting aggrogated for this. Poduo exposes the.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Saither that are gonna get swatted and I'm not sure
which is.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Oh god, it's so dumb.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Oh no, But like the East that that's that's a
pretty good pivot point. Honestly, like the East, you know,
I think the NBA is in overall pretty good health.
But again, like the whole ideology of parody, it kind
of falls a little deaf this year. Like, I know
that the NBA really believes in it. Mark Tatum has
(34:32):
told me repeatedly that this is something that they are
just they're in. They they love the idea of a
team being able to win any given year, And I
get that. I get the why that would be attracted
to fans because it makes the game way more unpredictable.
It gives more like it provides more fans worldwide to
a specific team that wins. Like, are we gonna siderate
(34:54):
in and pretend that as if the Thunder didn't just
gain a ton of international fans after winning the title. No, certain,
they absolutely did, And I think that's your strategy moving forward.
But at the same time, you kind of look at
the East and you go, oh, oh, that's bad.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
To the East are like standing there with with like
an MC Bowl. Can we have some parody please.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Like the West is going to help the NBA game fans,
the East is gonna help the NBA lose fans.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, I mean, look at least the East has Kyle
Kusma or something that's great.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Well, I will say, like I think Atlanta is gonna
be yeah, fun and on the rise this year. Orlando
obviously was already on the rise. The Desmond Band acquisition
is going to supercharge them. So like from the standpoint of,
you know, some of the teams that have been kind
of superpowers in recent years or taking a step back.
(35:57):
Boston obviously is Milwaukee is Philly, like who the f
knows just with health but like even I mean, like
I hate the Sixers, to be clear, but like the
just the young guards will be fun. So like there's
even signs of hope for some of these downtrodden teams
(36:20):
like Boston maybe not, but this is I mean, you
just want a title.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Who cares?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
This is a gap year deal with it, Like Indiana,
We'll get to see Matherin and Ben Shephard and bigger roles.
We'll get to see Andrew nem Hard be the full
time point guard. Like they have depth. I think they
really actually you know, are not going to make it
back to the finals obviously, but like right, they will
be able to survive. Detroit on the rise already last year.
(36:46):
We're getting Jade and Ivy back in the fold this year,
so like there's still it will be fun.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
They're just Toronto with Ingram.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
While I didn't love the acquisition, like there, we can't
sit here and and close the door or on them
potentially being better as well. We don't know, like maybe
this is the year the Bulls actually make it to
the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Who knows.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Congratulations Jerry, Oh.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
God, yeah, I thought you were congratulating me. I was
about to get up.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
You two of course, No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
But it's funny though, because you said I hate the Sixers.
Remember when we started this podcast like nine years ago,
Like I was a Bullskuy, you were a Sixers guy.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Both of them are like nah, we're leaving that text
message on Brett now.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Like okay, we've realized things about our respective ownership groups.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Like if they hit them on the phone, like you up,
Like nope.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Nope, no, nope, sorry watching the Thunder.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I'm I'm watching Spurs.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yeah, well that's it. I think like you could make
a pretty realistic case that at least the two best teams,
if not the three best teams, are all in the
West this year. I mean, like, I guess we'll see
where Cleveland and New York fit in there. But like, okay, see,
obviously I think Denver, with all the movies they made,
are better than any team in the East. I think, honestly,
(38:10):
the Rockets are probably gonna be better than any team
in the East.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I don't know. I think you're sleeping on Cleveland a
little bit though, Like I could be.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
I could be.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I thought everyone was a little quick after they got bounced, right,
Like they came off sixty four wins and they were
injured like right at the start of the Pacers series
and whatnot, and it was a bad matchup. So like
I'm not saying that they don't deserve criticism, but like
the immediate reaction was, oh.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Well, then you've got to tear it down. I'm like,
you did this.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
This was year one of Kenny Atkinson first and foremost,
Like you just won sixty four games, and the relationship
between Garland and and Donovan Mitchell was finally like those
two weren't like not friends or anything, but like the
actual basketball fit, which was a little strange that got
figured out, Like the relationship between Evan Mobley and Jared
(38:57):
Allen that got figured out. Like think that it's such
a quick trigger to go like into this immediate spiel
of oh, now you've got to break things off, Like
now now you've got to start over, like seriously after
sixty four wins and like playing that way in the
regular season, and let's also not forget like well they should,
(39:17):
but they still did ever, like they spank the Heats
into oblivion in the first round, like they did what
they were supposed to do. Then they lost to the Pacers,
who also felt like they had this team of destiny
vibe over them like something. I'm the Pacers are now
irrelevant for this season. Like this just means all the
more reason.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
To kind of believe that the Cavaliers are going to
come out of the East. I would suspect.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yeah, I mean I think it's either them or the
next or the clear front runners, right, yeah, I mean,
like I have every reasona believe the Caves are gonna
win fifty plus games again, and I think they are very,
very good. I guess my two concerns with them are
one which Fisher touched upon earlier today. I think they
(40:04):
have one or two open roster spots already and they're
not planning on let me see how he phrased it.
Cleveland has two open roster spots, but they're expected to
leave their fifteenth roster spot open given their hefty luxury
tax bill. They're also likely to attempt to sign a
fourteenth player on a non guaranteed contract because of those
(40:26):
tax concerns. So you know, we'll see who they get
for the fourteenth spot, right, But I just worry that
their financial situation is going to force them into that
kind of fork in the wrong moment at some point soon. Yeah,
And I mean, you know, if we're saying like youth
(40:46):
and depth of the way to go, They've got plenty
of youth. But you know, Lonzo, I hope to god
he stays healthy, but I'm not going to bank on that.
And so what happened. You know, we're going in the
season with fourteen guys, one guy on a not guaranteed contract.
If we have a couple of injuries. You know, I
(41:09):
really really like their top six, top seven, top eight,
But beyond that, you know, I don't know that they
have the same type of depth to whip stand the
full eighty two game season, right And if they do, now,
are they gonna make it to the playoffs in one piece?
Or do we see a repeat of what happened this
(41:29):
past year?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Well, I mean, look, they succeed in not playing their
guys a lot of minutes this last season, right, and
they lost Tydrome all right, fair enough, so like you've
got to stretch Garland and Mitchell's minutes probably a little bit.
But it also felt like they put away teams pretty early. Yeah,
Like if they can do that again to some extent,
(41:53):
I want to say, then who cares who mops the
floor in the fourth quarter in a way like yeah, yeah,
but I hear you though, like if you lose a
rotation player, which I definitely was, like, you're gonna have
to make up for that, and lonso as we like
I don't even know where I put the over under
in terms of like hope for Lonso, Like I'm probably
(42:16):
a little bit more skeptical at this point, even though
I think highly off of the Messa player, Like I
might consider just a freaking win if he plays forty games, like.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
That's for sure. Yeah, I mean it sucks, but I
feel like anything you get from him is icing on
the cake. But if you're going into the season expecting
a lot out of him.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, exactly, that's that's a good way of reason.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
So like Acoro wasn't really a huge factor. I mean
he was tenth in total minutes for him last year,
So like not a huge loss there, I mean right
that Yeah, like Jordan Yang they traded for a little vert,
so I mean it's so that was another loss though, that.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, Avert, Yeah, Lavert in Detroit, that's true. Well, Malik
Beastly just got cleared.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
More or less, that's right.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Maybe that's the trade that that actually would be a
pretty good fit.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
I mean they're already what, yeah, nineteen million over the
second apron, so if they can get him on a
Men deal.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Right, I mean, look how much money out there?
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Okay, there are some teams that can dig into their exceptions,
that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
And Brooklyn still has a decent amount, that's true. That's
an homeboy might have some debts to pay off from
based on the reporting that's come out, since.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
There was a lot there was.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Yeah, I don't know if a Mind deal is going
to cut it.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Unfortunately, There's one more thing that I've been thinking about,
and this is a major pivot as well. So the
Christmas Day games, why they like, I get that, you
that Cooper flag is exciting, but like outside of that,
the MAVs on Christmas Day, the MAVs Brian.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
I think was on vacation last week when these came out,
So I'm not even convinced I've seen the Christmas Day
Let me see, let me see this.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Most of them, like the five, like four out of
the five games are nice, like though, like properly filled
out with good teams that make sense and everything.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Oh right, right right, okay, yeah I do remember this now, Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
The MAVs just seems so oddly placed in that lineup
of teams because you just know there's no certainty that
Anthony Davis is playing at that point. You just don't know,
like you're, what thirty percent into the season, like he
could have beat day to day at that point, Kyrie
I don't think has returned, and if he has, he's
(44:46):
like probably a shall of himself at that point before
he's like getting ramped up. It's like, Merry Christmas, guys,
go watch the Angel Russell pull up from eight scene.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
What I mean, we're done to deserve that.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
I I think I know why they did it this way.
I'm assuming they did Rockets Lakers because this will be
like one of the last lebron kdi showdowns. Yeah yeah,
but like Rockets and Warriors, you could have just switched
the Rockets and the Mavericks both his road teams and
done Rockets Warriors with Katie going back to Golden State,
(45:24):
and then Mavericks Lakers with Luca versus the Mavericks and
Adi versus the Lakers. Like it felt like there was
that is such a layup and they probably don't want
to like lean into the hostility angle on Christmas Day,
I guess, but man, I mean like those would have
been more fun made for TV matchups.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Right yeah. Yeah. And also it's the third game on
the docket, Like if you want to show them MAVs,
put them at the ten forty slot, like push them
yea all the way to the latest one. Like oh
but that just that just kind.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Of weirded me out that they you would put the
mask there, Like again, if it's the Cooper flag effect
and that's it, Like if that's the only thing the
NBA thought of when making this, you know, making the schedule,
they were like Christmas Day flag cool, Okay, you know what,
sold I get it. It's just everything around it. It's like,
(46:23):
could you I'm just imagining like a Christmas Day where
they're trying to say Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Klay Thompson
and like two of the three armed playing and play
is like struggling to run up and down the floor.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Right yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean you're totally right, Like
Iray is not.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Going to be back by then.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
I don't think I would be.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Shocked, Like, yeah, there's there's a non zero chance that
the leading score from the mass in that game is
like Jadeen Hardy.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
I guess who would you have put in place of them?
Assuming Rockets get moved over to the Warriors.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Well, I mean okay, so it would have to be
basically a West team.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Like the Clippers. I mean, why not Harden Beal, cp
Kawhi maybe right, Like I know the again, you know
that's that's never a certainty as well, the trade for
John Collins, Like the Clippers are deep and fun, like
they should be fun at least, like there's a lot
of like name recognition there. I would watch that.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah yeah, I mean, I'm I'm surprised that the NBA
is gonna frustrate me because they're not gonna market Orlando
and Atlanta as much as they should be this year,
and I'm gonna be really bummed.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
But I also want to see them first though.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
You do, Like, well, welcome to the NBA on Prime
or whatever. Here we have Franz Wackner who's hitting twenty.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Yeah right, well, but like this is this is gonna
be a bigger issue for the NBA in the coming
years if they continue to market the league as they
have where they're like so still fixated on the steph
Katie lebron Era.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
What wait, you don't appeal to young young like young
people by pushing forty year olds, is that what they're saying?
Speaker 3 (48:28):
Right, Like, there is a I mean like Wemby is
obviously breaking through, Luca broke through and broke through. Yeah,
Flag presumably will, but like, I don't think Paolo has.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
To a national level yet.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
No, No, Hollie did because of the playoffs and because
of the end season tournament.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Tatum did too, but nobody cared because he's so boring.
I'm sorry, he's just yeah, he's boring.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
We made that the nicest way possible.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah, yes, yeah, and it's that's a good thing because
rather boring than go all John moraned, Right, I.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Mean right, let's be real. Yeah yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
But I hear you, like it's but is Orlando just
difficult to market?
Speaker 3 (49:12):
You think, Yeah, they might be like I mean, like,
I mean, Paolo would be the guy to do eventually.
But yeah, I mean they might be more of like
the mid twenty ten's Hawks, where it's like the summons
greater than the parts.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
So it's like Paul millsap Al Horford, Kyle Korver, Demy Carroll,
jenf Z.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah, yeah, the player of the month where it was
just the whole starting line holes.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
And wait they did they not?
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Also four of them make the same All Star team,
and Demark Carroll was just like waving on the outside like, Hi, guys,
I couldn't get.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
In, That's right. Yeah yeah, but yeah, I mean I
guess you're right, like they want to market Cooper Flag
as part of that. But yeah, the like the pairings,
just I just wish they flipped the pairings if nothing else, Yeah,
the same Nico Harrison would have had a lovely Christmas.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
So ah, how the over under on how many close.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
Ups, especially because it's in LA he would not have
gone presumably, right, I hope, I mean maybe maybe he
would have. Actually, he's probably a hero in that city. Yeah,
you know, just twenty thousand thank you NCO signs.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
But you're right it should have been it should have
been mass Lakers at least that would have been understandable.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Like I understand that.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
At the same time, you know, to your point, the
league doesn't want to be all like, let's get the
animosity up around Christmas. But as a as a viewer,
as an NBA pundit give me all the drama, man,
even a Christmas like alast fight at Christmas.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
That's right, And like Rockets Warriors beyond just like Ky
going back to Golden State angle, like Katie versus Jimmy Butler,
I'm in Thompson versus Stephan Curry. Yeah, yeah, like that
from an on court perspective, and I mean, hell Lebron
James versus Cooper Flag.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
That'd be fun. Yeah, there are so many subplots.
Speaker 3 (51:24):
Yeah, right, Like we wouldn't even need to lean into
the off court mess. I mean maybe that is it, though,
like maybe I don't know. I mean, I guess we'll
see how how if at all the league like marketing
and like these new national TV contracts, like this could
be an interesting subplot this season. If the way that
(51:44):
the game is marketed from the major media outlets showing
these games is different. And if like the NBA wants
to dial back on the focus on the messiness and
like the off court stuff and the trade rumor and
like they want, I would think they would want people
to focus more on the actual on court product, like
(52:05):
they in an ideal world, I'm sure they would prefer
the NBA is covered like the NFL is. Yes, so maybe,
like I can't tell.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
You where I have this from, but I can confirm
your your theory.
Speaker 3 (52:21):
Okay, So like you know, maybe this new Amazon panel
does a much better job of that than.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
Which looks amazing. Yeah the way, oh my god, it.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Was like Blake Dirk, who else they got?
Speaker 1 (52:37):
They just they just got John wall too.
Speaker 3 (52:39):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, like I and.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
And like Taylor Brooks hand like it's just basically what
do you call administrating everything?
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Like what the host? The host? That the Arnie Yeah
like that that is just that OOS is quality throughout.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
I love that. So no, it's it's gonna be interesting.
I'm look, I'm still.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Gonna be a soucker for trade rumors though, I mean.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
I mean always like that's where our broken brains are.
But but like I you know, I think I would
imagine at least the NBA would prefer it to not
be so off court driven. But like, yeah, that also
speaks to a much larger problem that they have no
(53:28):
control over in that you know, so many fans are
on social media, and like, that's what the algorithms are
feeding people. So that's what. Yeah, that's what they're gonna
get fat on.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
Among a lot of other things that they're feeding.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Right right, right right.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Well, Brian, thank you so much for for jumping on.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
And that was this was first the first episode of
Shooting the Bleep and this hopefully is gonna be a
returning segment.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Look, let's just be real about this. This is our
eleventh season with this pot gotta try something new occasionally,
that's right, Just like in life, sometimes you got to
try something else. And I hope to see you back
soon because you know you now you you're a year
past the birth of your second child.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Now you've grown a little bit accustomed to the everyday
life of having two little rascals, which, speaking of someone
who's the father of two rascals myself, it.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Sucks, but.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
That's correct. Don't do it. If you are listening and
you have zero or one kid. Congratulations, stop while you're ahead.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
Yeah, obviously we don't mean that if our wives were listening,
and that that we love our children. It was so
nice to talk to you, Bud, and uh, well, I'll
talk to you next time.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
Sounds good. Thank you as always for having me looking
forward to the shooting.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
More bleep with you for everyone listening in.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Thank you for doing so, and until we talk again,
stay safe everyone,
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