November 9, 2025 • 41 mins
Mort & Bry discuss the Dallas Mavericks and Orlando Magic, both of whom are on their Panic Meter.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hi, and welcome to the NBA Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
My name is Morton Jensen, and this is part two
of the NBA Panic Oh Meter or whatever the hell
we're gonna call it. We uh were planning on doing
Ford seams in our last part. We were talking about
the Memphis Christlies and New Orleans Pelicans, and we were
planning on talking about Dallas and Orlando as well. But
then we ran along and we've figured why not split
this into two episodes. That also gives you guys a
(00:42):
little bit more content to consume, So why not it
works out for both sides. Here we are going to
start up talking about the Dallas Mavericks, and once again
it is my great buddy Brian Zapporik at the other
side of the mic. Brian, the Dallas Mavericks, Sir, Like
I have a lot of thoughts before.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
What have been your main takeaways from their start of
this season? What are you thinking about their long term perspective? Like,
just give everything to me unfiltered.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
You know when you trade Luca Doncic free win now
Anthony Davis and then Anthony Davis is already hurt. It's
really the first time in his career that he got hurt,
so no one could have seen this coming thing, right, correct, Yes, Yeah,
it's funny how quickly the concerns about that trade have materialized.
(01:35):
And they are very lucky, like unprecedentedly lucky almost that
the lottery balls broke in their favor, so naturally they're
trying to squander that too. I appreciate them trying to
spread the goodwill to all of their players.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, so let's get into that, because, like we talked
about with the Orleans in the last episode, we did
not want to put anything at the feet of Derek
Queen about the way he got drafted and that whole
situation right there, and that is going to be the
same exact thing about Cooper Flag.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Here.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
What we're going to talk about with him is not
criticism of him. It is criticism of Jason kitt It
is criticism of the direction of the franchise.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So let's get into that.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I understand the raw idea of wanting to put Cooper
Flag in a position where he has the ball a
lot and where he makes plays with the basketball in
terms of trying to accelerate his playmaking potential. What I
do not understand Brian, is that you do it at
he's eighteen years old, this is his rookie season. You
(02:45):
are clearly envisioning him to become a forward down the line,
presumably a four. This is not the time to do it.
It's too soon and it's too much like it's one
thing to go in and say, well, we did it
with Giannis. Giannest was what in year five at that
point in time, year four or year five, like he
(03:05):
wasn't a rookie. You didn't go into this kid's rookie
season and go, hey, you're a new starting point guard,
and let's completely ignore the fact that we are no
longer our starting point guard and we're gonna return you
to the forward spot. You're gonna have to go through
in an extremely long process of getting acclimated to that position. Now,
I know these numbers are noisy, but I'm gonna present
(03:28):
them to you anyway. According to Basketball Reference, Cooper, Flak
has played thirty nine percent of his minutes at the
one and fifty nine percent of his minutes at the two.
You can count out that you were missing the last
two percent that is at the three, zero percent at
power forward, zero percent at center, and again two percent
(03:50):
at the wing. Oh my god, is this just so
much to put an eighteen year old who you have
to get him to come in and have the right start.
You have to find some success stories for him.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You just have to.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Is that is the way you built up especially young rookies,
and you decide to play him entirely out of position
at the age of eighteen. At what point do we
just become so like, I don't even know what the word, like,
why do we keep accepting this? Why are we screaming
(04:27):
like the broader basketball community, why aren't we screaming against
Jason Kidd?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Like what what the hell are you doing?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, I mean it's weird because they I mean, obviously,
when Kyrie comes back, he'll be the starting point guard,
and so this is a more of a short term
concider in the long term one, right, But you know,
they signed DeAngelo Russell this summer, and I think the
assumption was that he would kind of be the stop
gap point guard until until Kyrie comes back. And they've
(04:54):
started him one time in their first eight games, So
I mean, maybe they are just looking around the league
and saying, like, we also want to go with a
ton of size you know, like Klay Thompson for the
first couple of games of the season was their smallest starter,
so lively Davis, PJ. Washington, Flag and Clay, Like, you're
(05:18):
following the footsteps of these super size like Houston Rockets teams,
and you just want to absolutely destroy teams on the
glass in particular, but you're not doing that. They're twenty
seventh in offensive rebounding, fifteenth in total rebounds per game,
so like the size isn't working in their favor. They
(05:39):
are dead last in made threes, twenty eighth and three
point percentage. Like, none of the tactical advantages from going
big are showing up, and it's obviously costing them on
the other end offensively right to the point that they're
you know, one of that. They are the lowest scoring
(06:02):
team in the league, the lowest offensive rating in the league.
Like their defense is great fourth that's defensive rating, but
you do occasionally need to score points to win a
basketball game, which they've not done very much of this year.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I'm so glad you said that and not me. How
many times have I said that over the years?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yes, yes, yeah, I feel like I was stealing your line.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I know, I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So Anthony Davis has missed the last three games, yep,
and yet Cooper Flag still sits at zero percent played
at power forward this year, and that that's like I
fully agree with the idea of giving him point guard minutes,
not like to start at the position, not to like
play him exclusively as a guard. Like it just it's
(06:51):
maybe I'm just being too much of a dad, Brian.
Like an eighteen year old kid. He comes in, he's
got like the hype of the world on his shoulder
because he's the best power forward prospect in what twenty
years somewhere along those lines, And the way you're going
about it, to me, it's just not optimizing him mentally whatsoever. Like, Hey,
(07:14):
you're eighteen years old. You let's throw you in to
learning the most difficult position in basketball right off the bat,
instead of giving you some reps at the position you
feel more natural with, to give you some confidence, to
give you some consinuation, some good experiences. No, no, no,
(07:34):
we're gonna make your life a struggle from the start.
I just I don't understand the thought process of that.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna start Gaffer Davis Washington,
like you're not going to be able to squeeze him
in at power forward. But yeah, you would think, like
you draft Flag in part because of his playmaking, but
you don't need him to be the prime primary playmaker
right away. You can be a secondary playmaker and that's fine. Like,
(08:08):
I agree with you having a veteran I'm not saying
D'Angelo Russell is like the long term answer, but he
doesn't need to be because they have Kyrie Irving. Just
you signed him to hold the floor for the first
couple of months of the year and then you can
shift Russell back to the bench. Kyrie will start eventually
(08:29):
once he's like fully up to speed. Flag will be
the secondary guy. Like a lot of these pieces will
fall back into place once Kyrie is healthy. But in
the meantime, yeah, I guess I really just don't don't
understand what they were going with. Like I know Anthony
Davis does not want to play center, so of course
you have to start one of lively you gaff for
next to him.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
PJ.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Washington is one of your best players, so you're going
to start him as well. So, like, the positioning is
going to be kind of goofy no matter what just
because you've got all these big dudes in your starting lineup.
I mean they did finally this last game put Russell
in over Klay Thompson. We'll see what happens. They're playing
Memphis in a couple hours here, so i'd imagine they'll
(09:13):
stick with that same group, and then Max Christy has
replaced Anthony Davis for the time being, so that's like
a much more conventional lineup. Yeah, I think that, frankly
makes a lot of sense until they start to get
a little healthier. But yes, I'm with you that you know,
the Cooper Flag point guard. It's like remember when the
(09:35):
Spurs tried to do it this with Jeremy Sohan for
all sort of a season.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yep, this isn't.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Quite as I'll advise, because Flag does have this in
his bag, but making him do this from day one
as a rookie probably not the best idea.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, because what I'm basically putting a question mark next
to is the whole vision of Cooper Flag was the
he would be like this play finisher and secondary playmaker,
Like he'd basically be, offensively speaking, you know, a hybrid
between Sean Marion and Amar Stodermayer. Someone who will finish
(10:13):
plays above the rim, someone who will be nasty in
the pick and roll, and someone who will occasionally also
be able to play make out of the pick and roll.
So it feels like, right now Jason Kidd is basically saying, oh, yeah,
we're going to lean you way into that secondary playmaking
nature and then oh, the play finishing will just come.
At the NBA level, they'll fix itself. I think that
(10:35):
is so grotesquely optimistic, because you do need to find
the seams, You need to figure out who you're playing against,
you need to figure out like the personnel, the athleticism,
everything you're up against, Like, if anything, give him something
to start the season off in a positive way and
then build from there. It just seems extremely optimistic. Is
(10:58):
not irresponsible is a better way. But at the same time,
speaking about like the team at large, remember how they
went into or afterwards the Lukadanci's trade. They were like, Oh, yeah, no,
we're in it to win it now, like we're accelerated
our timeline, like we want to be the great defensive team.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
We want to win it within the next couple of seasons.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
So they go into that they do get Cooper flag,
and then suddenly it's like, oh no, now.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
We'll be patient. So you did.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
You didn't want to be patient with Lukadancic. You actually
wanted to pair it away from Luke freakin' Doncic to accelerate.
Oh now you won the lottery. Now you want to
be patient. But by being patient, you're not open minded
to pivoting off a lot of like the older players
who are taking away the opportunities to flag to play
at the right position, Like, you're not pivoting off PJ. Washington,
(11:51):
You're not trading Anthony Davis like you're signing to Angel
Russell as well, which is like wait, what, Like why
it they're in entire roster construction philosophy over this offseason
that's just concluded. Has just left me in such a
place where I don't know what the fuck they're trying
to do.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think they were trying to
win now with the the Davis lucaswab and then they
get Cooper flag and that almost makes them have to
go back and reevaluate what they're going to do now.
So it put them kind of back at square one,
where it would have made a lot of sense to no,
(12:36):
it would not have made a lot of sense. Sorry,
they committed to this path, so they would have been
on this path, this win now path. And then obviously
the Kyrie indury hurts that ad shockingly for the first
time in his career, being banged up hurts that. Yeah.
I mean, like, I don't think compared to Memphis and
(13:01):
New Orleans, who we talked about that last episode, where
like we don't know what the plan, the long term
plan is here, Like I think in Dallas in a
couple of months, things will feel much more stable than
they will for those other two organizations.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I do agree with that back, I think it's.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Still fair to wonder what the long long term plan is.
But like for the next year or two, you know,
you have a vision of how this actually could work. Well,
I mean like when they made that trade last year,
you could you could make the case like, yeah, you
could see this working for a year or two. It's
just you just gave up a ten year run with
(13:39):
Luca for like a two or three year run with
Ady and Kyrie.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Right, which.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Still made you worse, which never really made a whole
lot of sense to me. But okay, like, if you
want to try to pavot that way fair enough, then
I just don't understand after winning the flag lottery, why
you don't immediately then say, right, perhaps we don't need
Klay Thompson, Perhaps we don't need to go out and
sign you know, jan Joe Russell, who, despite the fact
(14:07):
that he should be in his prime years, definitely looks
like the best years are behind him. I mean, hell,
even even Anthony Davis, Like I think that's more of it,
like we don't want, we don't want, we want to
say face kind of thing, like we don't want to
trade him that soon. But like, if you're serious about
the patience level around Flack, obviously you should try to
(14:27):
figure out a new home for Anthony Davis and turning
you seem younger, like you should be applying the Washington
Wizards mindset fucking immediately.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yeah. Yeah, So what are.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
We expecting here from them before the trade deadline? Are
we even expecting them to do anything?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I wouldn't think nothing drastic, I don't think, because I
think Kyrie, I mean, it sounds like they are. You know,
Jason Kidd alluded to him possibly coming back in twenty
twenty five. Calendars running out pretty quickly here. I would
imagine he's back early twenty twenty six, at which point
they're only gonna have a couple weeks to evaluate their
(15:10):
roster with him before the trade deadline. So no, I
don't think anything drastic, in part because they've already traded
away I mean two future first round picks and two
future swaps, so they don't have a ton of draft
capital beyond they got the twenty twenty nine pick from
(15:30):
the Lakers. But yeah, I mean, they don't have a
ton of draft capital to even.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Dangle, which just leaves me thinking, again, how do they
optimize the rebuilding path around Flack.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah, I mean eventually the answer is trade a d
and Kyrie, but not anytime in the next year probably, No,
that's just next summer conversation, the absolute earliest.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I don't know what I think about that.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Like, I can see some of the louching and trying
to be competitive as a way to justify the trade,
because let's make no mistake here, they are still trying
to justify that trade.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
They are and they can't.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And I think moving off Davis now, even though it's
probably the right thing to do, seeing through the lens
of Hey let's reshape this thing around flag. I do
agree with you that they're just too callous to do that.
They just they don't have it in them. And Kyrie
they just what they or extended him, right.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, they're both signed through under guaranteed contract through twenty
six twenty seven, and they both have player options in
twenty seven to twenty eight. So I mean, that's the
other side of this is like both of those guys
could become free agents in twenty twenty seven. You know,
It's so much can change between now and then. But
like at the moment, a lot of teams see to
(17:00):
be trying to save up cap space for either twenty
six or twenty seven. So I think a lot of
free agents are also going to try to light up
their free agency for twenty six or twenty seven. You know,
do the Mavericks come to terms on new deals with
either of those guys beforehand? They're like, are they willing
to ride this out? And see, I mean Ad has
(17:20):
a sixty two point eight million dollar player option, he
might pick that up. Kyrie's forty two point four.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
That, yeah, that's in two years obviously he is.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yeah, he might. I mean, but like that's Yeah, if
they can get those guys to re sign, Like Kyrie
has taken a couple not discounts because he was his
value was compromised for a good reason, but they got
him on like what you would below max contracts. Like,
if they can get both of those guys back on
(17:54):
semi reasonable deals, that also changes the outlook a bit.
So I think like twenty twenty seven is the big
that's when the Mavericks need to really figure out their future.
They'll be Flag will be going into his third year,
so he'll be up for an extension after that season,
Klay Thompson comes off the books, then Caleb Martin will
definitely pick up his player option. Then yes, Max Christi
(18:17):
is probably going to decline his that's eight point nine
million then, So like they'll have a lot of big
decisions to make in twenty twenty seven. So I think
they use this year to figure out what they have next.
Summer is the first time they really have to start
thinking about, right, who's part of this core moving forward?
And what do we do with the guys who are not?
And then if they can't get Christy, Kyrie Anthony Davis
(18:42):
signed the new deals, then then we might start to
have some interesting conversations.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I'm almost surprised at your level of patience here. Like
if I was his team and I got a player
of Cooper Flag in the draft, I would definitely do
everything in my power to find more players who fit
that timeline. Not saying that everyone has to be eighteen
nineteen years old, but I think you know, a guy
(19:10):
who's eighteen playing on a roster with guys who are
forty two, forty three, forty five, that's just like a
bridge too far in terms of the age discrepancy. Like,
for sure, it's something to bridge that gap, right.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, I mean, like, though it's clear that Flag is
their future, Davis and Kyrie are not. But I also
think they want to try to win now. They're off
to a bad start obviously, and like they might dig
themselves into a pretty big hole it'll be hard to
climb out of by the time Kyrie is back. But
(19:43):
I think they'll have time between. You know, Flag, they're
going to have under contract and theory for nine years,
so they're gonna have plenty of time between when it's
his second contract is coming up and he's wondering at
age twenty five or twenty six, Like, all right, what's
what's the long term plan here? Like they have plenty
of time to figure out who would you flip Anthony
(20:05):
Davis for down the road? Who to flip Kyrie Irwin
for down the road? Who to flip Daniel Gafford? PJ. Washington, Like,
I think they've got a decent runway here. And you know,
we just talked about the Pelicans like kind of trying
to rush that process with Zion. I. I don't think
the Mavericks need to yet.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Right, No, I'm not saying that they should go out
and you know, for example, trade future draft picks or
I think they it's a question of trading the veterans
for something younger, like perhaps taking on, you know, crappy
deals and then players in return. But at the same time,
in lieu of their bad start of this year, there's
(20:46):
also part of me that says, you know what, stay
the course because you having your own draft pick next
year as well. In twenty six, there you have a
Darren Peterson for example, in the draft, you have an
ag Dubon, so that you have a camp Bo like
you have three guys who could legitimately be franchise altering players.
(21:07):
You kind of need that, you kind of need one
of those guys next to Flack, especially at Darren Peterson's type, Like, yeah,
would you would have to basically win the lottery all
once again. But if you get truly bad enough, that's
in play. So like if you, I guess what I'm
saying here is if you want to try to be
competitive this year and that's going to come at the
(21:28):
expense of having a good pick next year, for what,
making it to the first round and getting bounced, is
that worth it? Just because like we know how they'll
frame it, well, Cooper Flack got playoff experience that is invaluable. Yeah,
it's so invaluable that when you're when you're then starting
(21:51):
you know, d'anchel, Russello and stuff, Darren Peterson because you
didn't loose enough. Oh yeah, sure that one year of
getting you know, skull fucked in four games in the
first round. Yeah, that's that's for sure, more worth that experience. Yeah. No,
I'm tired of that argument, honestly, just sure. Yeah, I
(22:13):
just what is the plan? Should they just crap the
hell out of this season? Because That's where I'm leaning.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
They do have their pick this year.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
According to the spot track they do.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yes, Yeah, I mean I think, especially with Davis and
Kyrie like that, twenty twenty seven is going to come
up pretty fast on them. So I'm not saying they
should like make some win now trades, but I think
you need to kind of evaluate what you have with
those guys and how they mesh with Flag because you're
(22:49):
not going to have a ton of time to do
that before they come, before they potentially become free agents.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's going to be interesting, though. I just this is
a team I am. I'm very skeptical of them, and
in large part because of the way they conducted that
Luca trade two, Because let's just be real about it,
it was there was a personal vendetta in place there,
and instead of going out and actually getting the most
(23:18):
for their buck, they decided, no, we're going to negotiate
with one partner because that's how we retain his trade value. Sure, guys,
that's the way it works. Don't start a bidding war
for an arguably top three NBA player, No, No, negotiate
with one team so they can dictate the return. Smart smart.
And it's it's probably that approach that just makes me
(23:41):
sit here and go do I even trust this team
to make.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
The right sure? Sure, yeah, that's a fair concern.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, let's wrap up Brian with the Orlando Magic. I
have some concerns. They are three and five, so it's
not the end of the world. Like it's that they
can get they can find their way after this start,
is what I'm trying to say. Like it's they're not
completely screwed quite yet. But I am questioning some things,
(24:13):
and in large part, I am questioning whether the Powa
Bancaro is ever going to be that guy. The more
I see of him, the more questions I just have. Like,
he's undoubtedly a good player. I love watching him play.
He's fun to watch too. He's productive, he's big, he's strong,
(24:35):
he's got on ball fluidity and all ball creation. There's
lots of like there. He is just not efficient whatsoever.
His rebounding is so so his playmaking isn't at that
level where it needs to be to justify the lacks
of everything else. And we're just coming back to somewhat
the same argument of oh, he's tough to build around,
(24:57):
like we are Scion and other players around this league.
Do we trust Paula ben carro Is the number one option.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I don't know yet. I mean, like the jury's out still. Yeah,
I mean he's only what in his age twenty three season.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
He's yeah, he's gonna be twenty three in five days.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yes, yeah, So, I like, I just don't want to
slam the door on anyone that young. I get that,
especially like he had what three assists combined in his
first three games this year, But the playmaking has really
ratcheted up over the last five. He's averaging almost seven
assists per game over the last five, to go with
(25:44):
almost twenty five points, ten rebounds, seven assists roughly over
his last five games. And you know, three of them
were against Philly, Detroit, in Atlanta. He played two cupcakes
in there as well, Charlotte and Washington. But you know,
like we've had some near triple doubles from him twice
(26:04):
now or three times, so frankly, so if that playmaking
jump is real, I think that raises the floor. I mean,
I would imagine your concern is that he is not
still not a great three point shooter, shooting a career
worse twenty.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Four defenses off the ball what soever.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, and just takes a lot of for lack of
a better phrase, dickhead shots.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Uh that that was definitely a rough way I was
basically so far. I'm actually going to call him like
the six to ten to Marto Rosen. That's kind of like,
okay I view him.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Yeah, sure, yeah, I mean I guess he's like cut
down on the long twos this year, shooting a career low. Yes, yeah,
in terms of volume there, but still takes a decent
amount of mid range stuff that you'd like to see
either be threes or close to the basket. And given
(27:04):
his size especially, Yeah, I mean, I'm not like fully
out on Palo especially because, like you know, they make
this Desmond Main trade over the offseason to juice their offense,
juice their offensive spacing. Desmond Main is shooting twenty eight
point six percent from three point range. They are twenty
(27:25):
seventh and three point attempts twenty eight and made threes
this year, so what they intended to accomplish has not
come to fruition yet. But also Desmond Bain, I would
be very surprised if he continue shooting below thirty percent
from three when he has shot thirty eight percent or
better from three on much higher volume in each of
(27:48):
his first five seasons.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
But he hasn't come an afterthought though.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, I mean, like, I think that's probably the thing
I'm most concerned about in Orlando so far, is that
you make this what he gave up, didn't They give
up like four first round picks for him, four first Yeah,
and he's averaging.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Under fourteen points.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, the fewest points since his rookie year, shooting by
far the worst he ever has, averaging only twenty nine
minutes a game. I mean that's down from his last
couple of seasons as well. Like, if you're gonna not
utilize him like that, the four point four, three point
of times three game is the biggest red flag to me.
(28:32):
He shot six or above in each of the last
four Like, if he's not getting a ton of three
pointers up, why did you trade first four first round
picks for him? And I think if he does start
to become the player that they expected to get in
that trade, that's also going to lift the rest of
the Orlando offense, Like that should create more spacing for
(28:55):
Powlo and Franz to work inside the arc. It's going
to give more playmaking up tuning is for Polo as well.
So yeah, I mean, to go back to your original question,
I'm not out on Pallo being a potential franchise player.
I'm more concerned about what we've seen from Bain so
far and why it hasn't worked as they thought it
(29:16):
was going to.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
That's fair.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I think for me, it's just the archetypes that I'm
getting more and more aware of of certain players, like
just the off ball gravity or lack thereof. Like it's
it's becoming so difficult to find guys who, you know,
are Tier one players who don't have the capability of
going outside the three point line and doing stuff like
(29:40):
Shay and Jokic. While they're not like pro prolific three
point shooters, we know they can hit it, and then
they're so good, like so good everywhere else that their
efficiency is just that.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Much more higher.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And you know, Polo historically, just in terms of like
raw two point field goal convert has also been pretty
pedestrian is probably the kind word. He's not really a
knockdown free throw shooter either. And it's we're in year
four now, and I think that's part of why I'm
(30:13):
beginning to get that question raised in my own head
a little bit more like shouldn't he be slightly.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Further along by now?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
And I'm not saying that, you know, because he's obviously
he's gonna be twenty three, Like he's super young. I'm
not gonna sit here and say that, oh he's done,
like put Steve four in him. But I do think
it's fair that when you get this long in a
rebuilding situation, which was the situation that they entered back
in twenty twenty two, that you have to ask the
(30:42):
big questions like are we on the right path? Is
this the right constellation? Like for him and Franz, I
think it's becoming more of a coin toss, like whoever
gets the real three point shot first is probably going
to be the primary player.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yeah, a two credit after a horrific year shooting last
year back up to thirty nine point four career high,
Yeah nine point four this year.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, I mean it's been it's been bad for a
couple of years. Like it was it was bad last year,
it was bad year before. It was bad at like
international competitions. He was just that shot looked broken.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But like apparently they've been working with him and trying
to figure out, like how can we fix this. It
seems like it's working for now, so knock on wood
that that stays. But like that is part of why
I'm asking that question about Polo, because if you suddenly
have a six to ten wing in France who can board,
who can play make and who can suddenly shoot from outside,
(31:40):
who can also get to the free throw line, who
can convert at a high percentage, I'd probably am more
inclined to give him the ball and say, you know what,
you're a number one guy. Sorry, Like that's sorry, Poolo,
but like we just trust this more efficient basketball player
to have the ball in his hands more.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yeah, I mean, I think we're still at the fundamental
question of like can they build long term around both
of those guys? Do they need to pick one or
the other? Right, I would imagine the Magic's response is like,
didn't we just do this with Jason Tatum and Jalen
Brown in Boston? And I would say the counter through
that is that both of those guys are good, high
(32:23):
volume three point shooters, right, Like, that's to your point
if if that never develops or Pallow, it's just I mean,
it goes back to what we were talking about with
Memphis with like having to build around the weaknesses of
Jaron Jackson Junior as a rebounder, or John Morant as
a three point shooter, or Zion with a three point
(32:43):
shooter and not a good like rim protector for a
power forward. I mean, Polow leaves the team in shop blocking,
so that's nice to see. But if he is going
to continue shooting twenty four percent from three point ranger,
even in the low thirties from three point range, you
need to have some higher volume three point shooters around him,
(33:03):
which again is why you trade for Desmond Bane right
only to have him not attempt threes. So yeah, I mean,
and like you know, Jalen Suggs is shooting thirty nine
point one percent from three this year, which is great
to see because he also did not come in the
league renowned as a high volume, high efficiency three point shooter.
(33:25):
He's really developed to that over the course of his
NBA career. But still, like I mean, he was at
three almost seven threes per game last year. He played
only thirty five games five threes the year before that
at four, right now, you know, playing only nineteen point
five minutes per game, So that's the main reason for it.
(33:47):
But they just got to get more threesa It's as
simple as that. I mean, they're twenty sixth and three
point attempt rate this year, Like this is just not
modern basketball. And you know, you bring these guys in
to juice your offense and you have the twenty fourth
best offense in the league. So what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Which brings me to my next question. Jimal mostly.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
I like him as a coach, but this guy doubles
down on defense every chance he gets.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
There is not a lot.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Of offensive innovation there. I thought he started off the
year last year really good because he was like leaning
into the three point shot. The matching over the first
five games, I believe were like leading the league in
three point field goald Sims or were like among the
top three. I think they were just launching, and I
(34:43):
love the strategy because that was what they were trying
to do, Like put Paulo in Franz in the middle
of the floor and just splay it out all outside
the three point line. Then those two guys both went down.
I think it was with the same injury, right with
the with the stomach thing, and everything kind of died
from there, Like the three point shot never really returned
(35:04):
in volume.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
For this team.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
And when that happened, I was like, okay, so what
are you gonna do now, Like what's the next play? Like, well,
how are you going to adjust? And the answer to
that was, Oh, I'm not gonna adjust. I'm just gonna
keep doubling down on defense all the time. It's it's
just a short, termed way of looking at things in
my opinion, Like I understand you want to build a
(35:27):
team that has a set identity and that I can respect.
I can actually respect the hell out of that. And
it's fine if that's a defensive identity. But you can't
go out and then say well the offense will take
care of itself. That is such an eighties nineties approach
that just does not work anymore. Like you have to
(35:48):
be more creative in your sets. You have to make
sure that your primary guys are getting up the right shots.
I mean, again, just the shot died of Ben care
for example. It's not just it's again, he's not converting
on a lot of twos, Like he's a low efficiency
player considering the amount of touches an amount of shots
that he's getting. And so either it's a coaching issue
(36:09):
where Jamal Mostley and his staff are just failing and
identifying at the right type of shots for Poolo, or
it's a question of Poulo just completely playing you know,
unhinged basketball with very few limits attached to him. So
which of those two is true?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
I don't know. I'm not a fly on the wall
within that locker room. But something's not working.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Yeah, I mean, this would not be the first time
where a coach drags a team out of a rebuild
but is not you know, there's a type of coach
who can do that, but it is not great at
going from the right. Now we're good, How do we
turn you into a great team? You know Mark Jackson
and Steve Kirby in the famous example, and what is
(36:55):
his quote, Yeah, can't have a butterfly without a caterpillar
or something along those line. So I can't respect or
pay respect to the caterpillar. So maybe Jamal Mosley is
the caterpillar, and maybe they need to buy any new
coach who is the butterfly in this situation.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Then I like the Brent Barrys quote back in nineteen
ninety nine when he was playing with the Bulls when
he said, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Yeah, clearly my dog likes that too.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah that Hey, I said, chicken salad. It's my bad.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Well, I mean, look, first and foremost, he gave us
a nice break there from parking. That was well done.
That was well done, and that is maybe a good
time to sort of wrap this up. Actually, So the Magic,
we're worried a little bit about what their long term
future is. We're a little bit worried about this year.
(37:54):
It seems they're not getting up enough of the great shots.
We're trying to figure out what type of offense that
are going to run in the long term. We feel
that Desmond Bain has not been involved enough, and we're
asking some questions in terms of whether we trusted coaching staff.
Is that how we roughly surmize the Orlando Magic this year.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I think that is a fair assessment.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yes, And they also need a center who is better
than one of the Carter Junior at this point, I
think sure. Yeah, So of all the teams here, we
didn't even do this with the first two teams of
last episode, but we'll do it here with the Mavericks
and the Magic. Are these two teams just victims of
a bad start, Like will these two teams make the playoffs?
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, I think so. I would throw the Clippers into
that mix too, because I am I mean, I might
be even more concerned about the Clippers start than I
am about either of these two teams.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Okay, wow, all right, So it wasn't even a panic
meter today, I guess.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
I mean again, I think the Clippers will normalized. But
we'll see how how long Kawhi is out with this injury.
You know, Harden was out against the Suns, but it
sounds like that's more of a short term thing. But yeah,
I'm I. You know, we we had the talk coming
into the season about Bradley Beal. I think very concerned,
(39:24):
deeply concerned about Bradley.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
That nice. Nice. You just have to poke me there, Okay.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yeah, I mean I've been tagging you.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
I know I've seen.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
There's been quote to getting you with every Lot Murray
update about different lineup combinations they're trying and Bradley Beal
being not very good this year.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Just I haven't I haven't disagreed by the way. I
was just optimistic going into the season, and clearly I
was wrong.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
That's what you get for being optimistic. I know your
optimism was misplaced. It should have been placed on your
Cogo bulls clearly.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Wow. Wow, that is the way we have to wrap
up this episode. Huh.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
All right, well, Brian, despite being an asshole, can you
tell the people when you're.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Working mostly training my dog? But beyond that, Yeah, I
got a piece up about the Pelicans today. I'm going
to have something at some point about the Sixers and
the meltdown that they had against the Bulls the other night,
because I think it's it's time for the Joel embiid
(40:32):
hero ball era to be over.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Yeah, that was a nice harsh reminder of It is
Tyree Smaxy and VJ Edge Cloba team and you were
in the passenger seat, my friend. So I cannot promise
when that will be up because my wife is working
this weekend, so I will be solo parenting to kids
and a crazy dog. But it will be up at
(40:55):
some point, probably by the time this episode is out.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Sounds good, love it everyone listening in. Thank you for
doing so.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Until we speak again, have a good one and stay
safe everyone.
Hi, and welcome to the NBA Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
My name is Morton Jensen, and this is part two
of the NBA Panic Oh Meter or whatever the hell
we're gonna call it. We uh were planning on doing
Ford seams in our last part. We were talking about
the Memphis Christlies and New Orleans Pelicans, and we were
planning on talking about Dallas and Orlando as well. But
then we ran along and we've figured why not split
this into two episodes. That also gives you guys a
(00:42):
little bit more content to consume, So why not it
works out for both sides. Here we are going to
start up talking about the Dallas Mavericks, and once again
it is my great buddy Brian Zapporik at the other
side of the mic. Brian, the Dallas Mavericks, Sir, Like
I have a lot of thoughts before.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
What have been your main takeaways from their start of
this season? What are you thinking about their long term perspective? Like,
just give everything to me unfiltered.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
You know when you trade Luca Doncic free win now
Anthony Davis and then Anthony Davis is already hurt. It's
really the first time in his career that he got hurt,
so no one could have seen this coming thing, right, correct, Yes, Yeah,
it's funny how quickly the concerns about that trade have materialized.
(01:35):
And they are very lucky, like unprecedentedly lucky almost that
the lottery balls broke in their favor, so naturally they're
trying to squander that too. I appreciate them trying to
spread the goodwill to all of their players.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, so let's get into that, because, like we talked
about with the Orleans in the last episode, we did
not want to put anything at the feet of Derek
Queen about the way he got drafted and that whole
situation right there, and that is going to be the
same exact thing about Cooper Flag.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Here.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
What we're going to talk about with him is not
criticism of him. It is criticism of Jason kitt It
is criticism of the direction of the franchise.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So let's get into that.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I understand the raw idea of wanting to put Cooper
Flag in a position where he has the ball a
lot and where he makes plays with the basketball in
terms of trying to accelerate his playmaking potential. What I
do not understand Brian, is that you do it at
he's eighteen years old, this is his rookie season. You
(02:45):
are clearly envisioning him to become a forward down the line,
presumably a four. This is not the time to do it.
It's too soon and it's too much like it's one
thing to go in and say, well, we did it
with Giannis. Giannest was what in year five at that
point in time, year four or year five, like he
(03:05):
wasn't a rookie. You didn't go into this kid's rookie
season and go, hey, you're a new starting point guard,
and let's completely ignore the fact that we are no
longer our starting point guard and we're gonna return you
to the forward spot. You're gonna have to go through
in an extremely long process of getting acclimated to that position. Now,
I know these numbers are noisy, but I'm gonna present
(03:28):
them to you anyway. According to Basketball Reference, Cooper, Flak
has played thirty nine percent of his minutes at the
one and fifty nine percent of his minutes at the two.
You can count out that you were missing the last
two percent that is at the three, zero percent at
power forward, zero percent at center, and again two percent
(03:50):
at the wing. Oh my god, is this just so
much to put an eighteen year old who you have
to get him to come in and have the right start.
You have to find some success stories for him.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You just have to.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Is that is the way you built up especially young rookies,
and you decide to play him entirely out of position
at the age of eighteen. At what point do we
just become so like, I don't even know what the word, like,
why do we keep accepting this? Why are we screaming
(04:27):
like the broader basketball community, why aren't we screaming against
Jason Kidd?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Like what what the hell are you doing?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, I mean it's weird because they I mean, obviously,
when Kyrie comes back, he'll be the starting point guard,
and so this is a more of a short term
concider in the long term one, right, But you know,
they signed DeAngelo Russell this summer, and I think the
assumption was that he would kind of be the stop
gap point guard until until Kyrie comes back. And they've
(04:54):
started him one time in their first eight games, So
I mean, maybe they are just looking around the league
and saying, like, we also want to go with a
ton of size you know, like Klay Thompson for the
first couple of games of the season was their smallest starter,
so lively Davis, PJ. Washington, Flag and Clay, Like, you're
(05:18):
following the footsteps of these super size like Houston Rockets teams,
and you just want to absolutely destroy teams on the
glass in particular, but you're not doing that. They're twenty
seventh in offensive rebounding, fifteenth in total rebounds per game,
so like the size isn't working in their favor. They
(05:39):
are dead last in made threes, twenty eighth and three
point percentage. Like, none of the tactical advantages from going
big are showing up, and it's obviously costing them on
the other end offensively right to the point that they're
you know, one of that. They are the lowest scoring
(06:02):
team in the league, the lowest offensive rating in the league.
Like their defense is great fourth that's defensive rating, but
you do occasionally need to score points to win a
basketball game, which they've not done very much of this year.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I'm so glad you said that and not me. How
many times have I said that over the years?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yes, yes, yeah, I feel like I was stealing your line.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I know, I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So Anthony Davis has missed the last three games, yep,
and yet Cooper Flag still sits at zero percent played
at power forward this year, and that that's like I
fully agree with the idea of giving him point guard minutes,
not like to start at the position, not to like
play him exclusively as a guard. Like it just it's
(06:51):
maybe I'm just being too much of a dad, Brian.
Like an eighteen year old kid. He comes in, he's
got like the hype of the world on his shoulder
because he's the best power forward prospect in what twenty
years somewhere along those lines, And the way you're going
about it, to me, it's just not optimizing him mentally whatsoever. Like, Hey,
(07:14):
you're eighteen years old. You let's throw you in to
learning the most difficult position in basketball right off the bat,
instead of giving you some reps at the position you
feel more natural with, to give you some confidence, to
give you some consinuation, some good experiences. No, no, no,
(07:34):
we're gonna make your life a struggle from the start.
I just I don't understand the thought process of that.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna start Gaffer Davis Washington,
like you're not going to be able to squeeze him
in at power forward. But yeah, you would think, like
you draft Flag in part because of his playmaking, but
you don't need him to be the prime primary playmaker
right away. You can be a secondary playmaker and that's fine. Like,
(08:08):
I agree with you having a veteran I'm not saying
D'Angelo Russell is like the long term answer, but he
doesn't need to be because they have Kyrie Irving. Just
you signed him to hold the floor for the first
couple of months of the year and then you can
shift Russell back to the bench. Kyrie will start eventually
(08:29):
once he's like fully up to speed. Flag will be
the secondary guy. Like a lot of these pieces will
fall back into place once Kyrie is healthy. But in
the meantime, yeah, I guess I really just don't don't
understand what they were going with. Like I know Anthony
Davis does not want to play center, so of course
you have to start one of lively you gaff for
next to him.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
PJ.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Washington is one of your best players, so you're going
to start him as well. So, like, the positioning is
going to be kind of goofy no matter what just
because you've got all these big dudes in your starting lineup.
I mean they did finally this last game put Russell
in over Klay Thompson. We'll see what happens. They're playing
Memphis in a couple hours here, so i'd imagine they'll
(09:13):
stick with that same group, and then Max Christy has
replaced Anthony Davis for the time being, so that's like
a much more conventional lineup. Yeah, I think that, frankly
makes a lot of sense until they start to get
a little healthier. But yes, I'm with you that you know,
the Cooper Flag point guard. It's like remember when the
(09:35):
Spurs tried to do it this with Jeremy Sohan for
all sort of a season.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yep, this isn't.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Quite as I'll advise, because Flag does have this in
his bag, but making him do this from day one
as a rookie probably not the best idea.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, because what I'm basically putting a question mark next
to is the whole vision of Cooper Flag was the
he would be like this play finisher and secondary playmaker,
Like he'd basically be, offensively speaking, you know, a hybrid
between Sean Marion and Amar Stodermayer. Someone who will finish
(10:13):
plays above the rim, someone who will be nasty in
the pick and roll, and someone who will occasionally also
be able to play make out of the pick and roll.
So it feels like, right now Jason Kidd is basically saying, oh, yeah,
we're going to lean you way into that secondary playmaking
nature and then oh, the play finishing will just come.
At the NBA level, they'll fix itself. I think that
(10:35):
is so grotesquely optimistic, because you do need to find
the seams, You need to figure out who you're playing against,
you need to figure out like the personnel, the athleticism,
everything you're up against, Like, if anything, give him something
to start the season off in a positive way and
then build from there. It just seems extremely optimistic. Is
(10:58):
not irresponsible is a better way. But at the same time,
speaking about like the team at large, remember how they
went into or afterwards the Lukadanci's trade. They were like, Oh, yeah, no,
we're in it to win it now, like we're accelerated
our timeline, like we want to be the great defensive team.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
We want to win it within the next couple of seasons.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
So they go into that they do get Cooper flag,
and then suddenly it's like, oh no, now.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
We'll be patient. So you did.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
You didn't want to be patient with Lukadancic. You actually
wanted to pair it away from Luke freakin' Doncic to accelerate.
Oh now you won the lottery. Now you want to
be patient. But by being patient, you're not open minded
to pivoting off a lot of like the older players
who are taking away the opportunities to flag to play
at the right position, Like, you're not pivoting off PJ. Washington,
(11:51):
You're not trading Anthony Davis like you're signing to Angel
Russell as well, which is like wait, what, Like why
it they're in entire roster construction philosophy over this offseason
that's just concluded. Has just left me in such a
place where I don't know what the fuck they're trying
to do.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think they were trying to
win now with the the Davis lucaswab and then they
get Cooper flag and that almost makes them have to
go back and reevaluate what they're going to do now.
So it put them kind of back at square one,
where it would have made a lot of sense to no,
(12:36):
it would not have made a lot of sense. Sorry,
they committed to this path, so they would have been
on this path, this win now path. And then obviously
the Kyrie indury hurts that ad shockingly for the first
time in his career, being banged up hurts that. Yeah.
I mean, like, I don't think compared to Memphis and
(13:01):
New Orleans, who we talked about that last episode, where
like we don't know what the plan, the long term
plan is here, Like I think in Dallas in a
couple of months, things will feel much more stable than
they will for those other two organizations.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I do agree with that back, I think it's.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Still fair to wonder what the long long term plan is.
But like for the next year or two, you know,
you have a vision of how this actually could work. Well,
I mean like when they made that trade last year,
you could you could make the case like, yeah, you
could see this working for a year or two. It's
just you just gave up a ten year run with
(13:39):
Luca for like a two or three year run with
Ady and Kyrie.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Right, which.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Still made you worse, which never really made a whole
lot of sense to me. But okay, like, if you
want to try to pavot that way fair enough, then
I just don't understand after winning the flag lottery, why
you don't immediately then say, right, perhaps we don't need
Klay Thompson, Perhaps we don't need to go out and
sign you know, jan Joe Russell, who, despite the fact
(14:07):
that he should be in his prime years, definitely looks
like the best years are behind him. I mean, hell,
even even Anthony Davis, Like I think that's more of it,
like we don't want, we don't want, we want to
say face kind of thing, like we don't want to
trade him that soon. But like, if you're serious about
the patience level around Flack, obviously you should try to
(14:27):
figure out a new home for Anthony Davis and turning
you seem younger, like you should be applying the Washington
Wizards mindset fucking immediately.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yeah. Yeah, So what are.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
We expecting here from them before the trade deadline? Are
we even expecting them to do anything?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I wouldn't think nothing drastic, I don't think, because I
think Kyrie, I mean, it sounds like they are. You know,
Jason Kidd alluded to him possibly coming back in twenty
twenty five. Calendars running out pretty quickly here. I would
imagine he's back early twenty twenty six, at which point
they're only gonna have a couple weeks to evaluate their
(15:10):
roster with him before the trade deadline. So no, I
don't think anything drastic, in part because they've already traded
away I mean two future first round picks and two
future swaps, so they don't have a ton of draft
capital beyond they got the twenty twenty nine pick from
(15:30):
the Lakers. But yeah, I mean, they don't have a
ton of draft capital to even.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Dangle, which just leaves me thinking, again, how do they
optimize the rebuilding path around Flack.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah, I mean eventually the answer is trade a d
and Kyrie, but not anytime in the next year probably, No,
that's just next summer conversation, the absolute earliest.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I don't know what I think about that.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Like, I can see some of the louching and trying
to be competitive as a way to justify the trade,
because let's make no mistake here, they are still trying
to justify that trade.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
They are and they can't.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And I think moving off Davis now, even though it's
probably the right thing to do, seeing through the lens
of Hey let's reshape this thing around flag. I do
agree with you that they're just too callous to do that.
They just they don't have it in them. And Kyrie
they just what they or extended him, right.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, they're both signed through under guaranteed contract through twenty
six twenty seven, and they both have player options in
twenty seven to twenty eight. So I mean, that's the
other side of this is like both of those guys
could become free agents in twenty twenty seven. You know,
It's so much can change between now and then. But
like at the moment, a lot of teams see to
(17:00):
be trying to save up cap space for either twenty
six or twenty seven. So I think a lot of
free agents are also going to try to light up
their free agency for twenty six or twenty seven. You know,
do the Mavericks come to terms on new deals with
either of those guys beforehand? They're like, are they willing
to ride this out? And see, I mean Ad has
(17:20):
a sixty two point eight million dollar player option, he
might pick that up. Kyrie's forty two point four.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
That, yeah, that's in two years obviously he is.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yeah, he might. I mean, but like that's Yeah, if
they can get those guys to re sign, Like Kyrie
has taken a couple not discounts because he was his
value was compromised for a good reason, but they got
him on like what you would below max contracts. Like,
if they can get both of those guys back on
(17:54):
semi reasonable deals, that also changes the outlook a bit.
So I think like twenty twenty seven is the big
that's when the Mavericks need to really figure out their future.
They'll be Flag will be going into his third year,
so he'll be up for an extension after that season,
Klay Thompson comes off the books, then Caleb Martin will
definitely pick up his player option. Then yes, Max Christi
(18:17):
is probably going to decline his that's eight point nine
million then, So like they'll have a lot of big
decisions to make in twenty twenty seven. So I think
they use this year to figure out what they have next.
Summer is the first time they really have to start
thinking about, right, who's part of this core moving forward?
And what do we do with the guys who are not?
And then if they can't get Christy, Kyrie Anthony Davis
(18:42):
signed the new deals, then then we might start to
have some interesting conversations.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I'm almost surprised at your level of patience here. Like
if I was his team and I got a player
of Cooper Flag in the draft, I would definitely do
everything in my power to find more players who fit
that timeline. Not saying that everyone has to be eighteen
nineteen years old, but I think you know, a guy
(19:10):
who's eighteen playing on a roster with guys who are
forty two, forty three, forty five, that's just like a
bridge too far in terms of the age discrepancy. Like,
for sure, it's something to bridge that gap, right.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, I mean, like, though it's clear that Flag is
their future, Davis and Kyrie are not. But I also
think they want to try to win now. They're off
to a bad start obviously, and like they might dig
themselves into a pretty big hole it'll be hard to
climb out of by the time Kyrie is back. But
(19:43):
I think they'll have time between. You know, Flag, they're
going to have under contract and theory for nine years,
so they're gonna have plenty of time between when it's
his second contract is coming up and he's wondering at
age twenty five or twenty six, Like, all right, what's
what's the long term plan here? Like they have plenty
of time to figure out who would you flip Anthony
(20:05):
Davis for down the road? Who to flip Kyrie Irwin
for down the road? Who to flip Daniel Gafford? PJ. Washington, Like,
I think they've got a decent runway here. And you know,
we just talked about the Pelicans like kind of trying
to rush that process with Zion. I. I don't think
the Mavericks need to yet.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Right, No, I'm not saying that they should go out
and you know, for example, trade future draft picks or
I think they it's a question of trading the veterans
for something younger, like perhaps taking on, you know, crappy
deals and then players in return. But at the same time,
in lieu of their bad start of this year, there's
(20:46):
also part of me that says, you know what, stay
the course because you having your own draft pick next
year as well. In twenty six, there you have a
Darren Peterson for example, in the draft, you have an
ag Dubon, so that you have a camp Bo like
you have three guys who could legitimately be franchise altering players.
(21:07):
You kind of need that, you kind of need one
of those guys next to Flack, especially at Darren Peterson's type, Like, yeah,
would you would have to basically win the lottery all
once again. But if you get truly bad enough, that's
in play. So like if you, I guess what I'm
saying here is if you want to try to be
competitive this year and that's going to come at the
(21:28):
expense of having a good pick next year, for what,
making it to the first round and getting bounced, is
that worth it? Just because like we know how they'll
frame it, well, Cooper Flack got playoff experience that is invaluable. Yeah,
it's so invaluable that when you're when you're then starting
(21:51):
you know, d'anchel, Russello and stuff, Darren Peterson because you
didn't loose enough. Oh yeah, sure that one year of
getting you know, skull fucked in four games in the
first round. Yeah, that's that's for sure, more worth that experience. Yeah. No,
I'm tired of that argument, honestly, just sure. Yeah, I
(22:13):
just what is the plan? Should they just crap the
hell out of this season? Because That's where I'm leaning.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
They do have their pick this year.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
According to the spot track they do.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yes, Yeah, I mean I think, especially with Davis and
Kyrie like that, twenty twenty seven is going to come
up pretty fast on them. So I'm not saying they
should like make some win now trades, but I think
you need to kind of evaluate what you have with
those guys and how they mesh with Flag because you're
(22:49):
not going to have a ton of time to do
that before they come, before they potentially become free agents.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's going to be interesting, though. I just this is
a team I am. I'm very skeptical of them, and
in large part because of the way they conducted that
Luca trade two, Because let's just be real about it,
it was there was a personal vendetta in place there,
and instead of going out and actually getting the most
(23:18):
for their buck, they decided, no, we're going to negotiate
with one partner because that's how we retain his trade value. Sure, guys,
that's the way it works. Don't start a bidding war
for an arguably top three NBA player, No, No, negotiate
with one team so they can dictate the return. Smart smart.
And it's it's probably that approach that just makes me
(23:41):
sit here and go do I even trust this team
to make.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
The right sure? Sure, yeah, that's a fair concern.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, let's wrap up Brian with the Orlando Magic. I
have some concerns. They are three and five, so it's
not the end of the world. Like it's that they
can get they can find their way after this start,
is what I'm trying to say. Like it's they're not
completely screwed quite yet. But I am questioning some things,
(24:13):
and in large part, I am questioning whether the Powa
Bancaro is ever going to be that guy. The more
I see of him, the more questions I just have. Like,
he's undoubtedly a good player. I love watching him play.
He's fun to watch too. He's productive, he's big, he's strong,
(24:35):
he's got on ball fluidity and all ball creation. There's
lots of like there. He is just not efficient whatsoever.
His rebounding is so so his playmaking isn't at that
level where it needs to be to justify the lacks
of everything else. And we're just coming back to somewhat
the same argument of oh, he's tough to build around,
(24:57):
like we are Scion and other players around this league.
Do we trust Paula ben carro Is the number one option.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I don't know yet. I mean, like the jury's out still. Yeah,
I mean he's only what in his age twenty three season.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
He's yeah, he's gonna be twenty three in five days.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yes, yeah, So, I like, I just don't want to
slam the door on anyone that young. I get that,
especially like he had what three assists combined in his
first three games this year, But the playmaking has really
ratcheted up over the last five. He's averaging almost seven
assists per game over the last five, to go with
(25:44):
almost twenty five points, ten rebounds, seven assists roughly over
his last five games. And you know, three of them
were against Philly, Detroit, in Atlanta. He played two cupcakes
in there as well, Charlotte and Washington. But you know,
like we've had some near triple doubles from him twice
(26:04):
now or three times, so frankly, so if that playmaking
jump is real, I think that raises the floor. I mean,
I would imagine your concern is that he is not
still not a great three point shooter, shooting a career
worse twenty.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Four defenses off the ball what soever.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, and just takes a lot of for lack of
a better phrase, dickhead shots.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Uh that that was definitely a rough way I was
basically so far. I'm actually going to call him like
the six to ten to Marto Rosen. That's kind of like,
okay I view him.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Yeah, sure, yeah, I mean I guess he's like cut
down on the long twos this year, shooting a career low. Yes, yeah,
in terms of volume there, but still takes a decent
amount of mid range stuff that you'd like to see
either be threes or close to the basket. And given
(27:04):
his size especially, Yeah, I mean, I'm not like fully
out on Palo especially because, like you know, they make
this Desmond Main trade over the offseason to juice their offense,
juice their offensive spacing. Desmond Main is shooting twenty eight
point six percent from three point range. They are twenty
(27:25):
seventh and three point attempts twenty eight and made threes
this year, so what they intended to accomplish has not
come to fruition yet. But also Desmond Bain, I would
be very surprised if he continue shooting below thirty percent
from three when he has shot thirty eight percent or
better from three on much higher volume in each of
(27:48):
his first five seasons.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
But he hasn't come an afterthought though.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, I mean, like, I think that's probably the thing
I'm most concerned about in Orlando so far, is that
you make this what he gave up, didn't They give
up like four first round picks for him, four first Yeah,
and he's averaging.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Under fourteen points.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, the fewest points since his rookie year, shooting by
far the worst he ever has, averaging only twenty nine
minutes a game. I mean that's down from his last
couple of seasons as well. Like, if you're gonna not
utilize him like that, the four point four, three point
of times three game is the biggest red flag to me.
(28:32):
He shot six or above in each of the last
four Like, if he's not getting a ton of three
pointers up, why did you trade first four first round
picks for him? And I think if he does start
to become the player that they expected to get in
that trade, that's also going to lift the rest of
the Orlando offense, Like that should create more spacing for
(28:55):
Powlo and Franz to work inside the arc. It's going
to give more playmaking up tuning is for Polo as well.
So yeah, I mean, to go back to your original question,
I'm not out on Pallo being a potential franchise player.
I'm more concerned about what we've seen from Bain so
far and why it hasn't worked as they thought it
(29:16):
was going to.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
That's fair.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I think for me, it's just the archetypes that I'm
getting more and more aware of of certain players, like
just the off ball gravity or lack thereof. Like it's
it's becoming so difficult to find guys who, you know,
are Tier one players who don't have the capability of
going outside the three point line and doing stuff like
(29:40):
Shay and Jokic. While they're not like pro prolific three
point shooters, we know they can hit it, and then
they're so good, like so good everywhere else that their
efficiency is just that.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Much more higher.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And you know, Polo historically, just in terms of like
raw two point field goal convert has also been pretty
pedestrian is probably the kind word. He's not really a
knockdown free throw shooter either. And it's we're in year
four now, and I think that's part of why I'm
(30:13):
beginning to get that question raised in my own head
a little bit more like shouldn't he be slightly.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Further along by now?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
And I'm not saying that, you know, because he's obviously
he's gonna be twenty three, Like he's super young. I'm
not gonna sit here and say that, oh he's done,
like put Steve four in him. But I do think
it's fair that when you get this long in a
rebuilding situation, which was the situation that they entered back
in twenty twenty two, that you have to ask the
(30:42):
big questions like are we on the right path? Is
this the right constellation? Like for him and Franz, I
think it's becoming more of a coin toss, like whoever
gets the real three point shot first is probably going
to be the primary player.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yeah, a two credit after a horrific year shooting last
year back up to thirty nine point four career high,
Yeah nine point four this year.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, I mean it's been it's been bad for a
couple of years. Like it was it was bad last year,
it was bad year before. It was bad at like
international competitions. He was just that shot looked broken.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But like apparently they've been working with him and trying
to figure out, like how can we fix this. It
seems like it's working for now, so knock on wood
that that stays. But like that is part of why
I'm asking that question about Polo, because if you suddenly
have a six to ten wing in France who can board,
who can play make and who can suddenly shoot from outside,
(31:40):
who can also get to the free throw line, who
can convert at a high percentage, I'd probably am more
inclined to give him the ball and say, you know what,
you're a number one guy. Sorry, Like that's sorry, Poolo,
but like we just trust this more efficient basketball player
to have the ball in his hands more.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yeah, I mean, I think we're still at the fundamental
question of like can they build long term around both
of those guys? Do they need to pick one or
the other? Right, I would imagine the Magic's response is like,
didn't we just do this with Jason Tatum and Jalen
Brown in Boston? And I would say the counter through
that is that both of those guys are good, high
(32:23):
volume three point shooters, right, Like, that's to your point
if if that never develops or Pallow, it's just I mean,
it goes back to what we were talking about with
Memphis with like having to build around the weaknesses of
Jaron Jackson Junior as a rebounder, or John Morant as
a three point shooter, or Zion with a three point
(32:43):
shooter and not a good like rim protector for a
power forward. I mean, Polow leaves the team in shop blocking,
so that's nice to see. But if he is going
to continue shooting twenty four percent from three point ranger,
even in the low thirties from three point range, you
need to have some higher volume three point shooters around him,
(33:03):
which again is why you trade for Desmond Bane right
only to have him not attempt threes. So yeah, I mean,
and like you know, Jalen Suggs is shooting thirty nine
point one percent from three this year, which is great
to see because he also did not come in the
league renowned as a high volume, high efficiency three point shooter.
(33:25):
He's really developed to that over the course of his
NBA career. But still, like I mean, he was at
three almost seven threes per game last year. He played
only thirty five games five threes the year before that
at four, right now, you know, playing only nineteen point
five minutes per game, So that's the main reason for it.
(33:47):
But they just got to get more threesa It's as
simple as that. I mean, they're twenty sixth and three
point attempt rate this year, Like this is just not
modern basketball. And you know, you bring these guys in
to juice your offense and you have the twenty fourth
best offense in the league. So what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Which brings me to my next question. Jimal mostly.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
I like him as a coach, but this guy doubles
down on defense every chance he gets.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
There is not a lot.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Of offensive innovation there. I thought he started off the
year last year really good because he was like leaning
into the three point shot. The matching over the first
five games, I believe were like leading the league in
three point field goald Sims or were like among the
top three. I think they were just launching, and I
(34:43):
love the strategy because that was what they were trying
to do, Like put Paulo in Franz in the middle
of the floor and just splay it out all outside
the three point line. Then those two guys both went down.
I think it was with the same injury, right with
the with the stomach thing, and everything kind of died
from there, Like the three point shot never really returned
(35:04):
in volume.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
For this team.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
And when that happened, I was like, okay, so what
are you gonna do now, Like what's the next play? Like, well,
how are you going to adjust? And the answer to
that was, Oh, I'm not gonna adjust. I'm just gonna
keep doubling down on defense all the time. It's it's
just a short, termed way of looking at things in
my opinion, Like I understand you want to build a
(35:27):
team that has a set identity and that I can respect.
I can actually respect the hell out of that. And
it's fine if that's a defensive identity. But you can't
go out and then say well the offense will take
care of itself. That is such an eighties nineties approach
that just does not work anymore. Like you have to
(35:48):
be more creative in your sets. You have to make
sure that your primary guys are getting up the right shots.
I mean, again, just the shot died of Ben care
for example. It's not just it's again, he's not converting
on a lot of twos, Like he's a low efficiency
player considering the amount of touches an amount of shots
that he's getting. And so either it's a coaching issue
(36:09):
where Jamal Mostley and his staff are just failing and
identifying at the right type of shots for Poolo, or
it's a question of Poulo just completely playing you know,
unhinged basketball with very few limits attached to him. So
which of those two is true?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
I don't know. I'm not a fly on the wall
within that locker room. But something's not working.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Yeah, I mean, this would not be the first time
where a coach drags a team out of a rebuild
but is not you know, there's a type of coach
who can do that, but it is not great at
going from the right. Now we're good, How do we
turn you into a great team? You know Mark Jackson
and Steve Kirby in the famous example, and what is
(36:55):
his quote, Yeah, can't have a butterfly without a caterpillar
or something along those line. So I can't respect or
pay respect to the caterpillar. So maybe Jamal Mosley is
the caterpillar, and maybe they need to buy any new
coach who is the butterfly in this situation.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Then I like the Brent Barrys quote back in nineteen
ninety nine when he was playing with the Bulls when
he said, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Yeah, clearly my dog likes that too.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah that Hey, I said, chicken salad. It's my bad.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Well, I mean, look, first and foremost, he gave us
a nice break there from parking. That was well done.
That was well done, and that is maybe a good
time to sort of wrap this up. Actually, So the Magic,
we're worried a little bit about what their long term
future is. We're a little bit worried about this year.
(37:54):
It seems they're not getting up enough of the great shots.
We're trying to figure out what type of offense that
are going to run in the long term. We feel
that Desmond Bain has not been involved enough, and we're
asking some questions in terms of whether we trusted coaching staff.
Is that how we roughly surmize the Orlando Magic this year.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I think that is a fair assessment.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yes, And they also need a center who is better
than one of the Carter Junior at this point, I
think sure. Yeah, So of all the teams here, we
didn't even do this with the first two teams of
last episode, but we'll do it here with the Mavericks
and the Magic. Are these two teams just victims of
a bad start, Like will these two teams make the playoffs?
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, I think so. I would throw the Clippers into
that mix too, because I am I mean, I might
be even more concerned about the Clippers start than I
am about either of these two teams.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Okay, wow, all right, So it wasn't even a panic
meter today, I guess.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
I mean again, I think the Clippers will normalized. But
we'll see how how long Kawhi is out with this injury.
You know, Harden was out against the Suns, but it
sounds like that's more of a short term thing. But yeah,
I'm I. You know, we we had the talk coming
into the season about Bradley Beal. I think very concerned,
(39:24):
deeply concerned about Bradley.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
That nice. Nice. You just have to poke me there, Okay.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yeah, I mean I've been tagging you.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
I know I've seen.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
There's been quote to getting you with every Lot Murray
update about different lineup combinations they're trying and Bradley Beal
being not very good this year.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Just I haven't I haven't disagreed by the way. I
was just optimistic going into the season, and clearly I
was wrong.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
That's what you get for being optimistic. I know your
optimism was misplaced. It should have been placed on your
Cogo bulls clearly.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Wow. Wow, that is the way we have to wrap
up this episode. Huh.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
All right, well, Brian, despite being an asshole, can you
tell the people when you're.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Working mostly training my dog? But beyond that, Yeah, I
got a piece up about the Pelicans today. I'm going
to have something at some point about the Sixers and
the meltdown that they had against the Bulls the other night,
because I think it's it's time for the Joel embiid
(40:32):
hero ball era to be over.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Yeah, that was a nice harsh reminder of It is
Tyree Smaxy and VJ Edge Cloba team and you were
in the passenger seat, my friend. So I cannot promise
when that will be up because my wife is working
this weekend, so I will be solo parenting to kids
and a crazy dog. But it will be up at
(40:55):
some point, probably by the time this episode is out.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Sounds good, love it everyone listening in. Thank you for
doing so.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Until we speak again, have a good one and stay
safe everyone.
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