April 29, 2025 • 45 mins
Mort & Dan Favale discuss the Miami Heat, and their options. They have some, but are those options worth it?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What is up? Fellasiko's I'm Dan fa Valley, once again
joined by Mort Jensen of the NBA Podcast, fame of
Yahoo Sports, Fame, of Forbes Fame, and of OnlyFans Celebrity
be on the lookout for his blend of naughty slash
NBA crossover content. We are here to talk about the
Miami Heat, beginning another off season of what the hell
(00:26):
do we do? Now? Where do we go? They are?
I find every team fascinating. I say it's about every
team when we do look ahead, I'm like, oh, this
team is so fascinating. Moret Well, before he gets started,
how are you doing since we last talked like five
seconds ago?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Doing well? Feeling slightly worse that we're talking about the
Miami Heat?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yes, yeah, so let's get let's get into some of
just their like off season vitals here, which are you know,
they're not going to be pretty, but they do exist.
So Miami, they're about nine point three million below the
luxury tax. That's not including a potential new deal for
Davion Mitchell, who was a restricted free agent and turned
out to be pretty important to them and pretty good
(01:04):
for them to be fair.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
By the way, Mayakopa on that because you and I
spoke about Davion Mitchell. I want to say a month ago,
where I was very dismissive of him. I was like, yeah, sure,
he's doing well in like March, like who cares. I
was very dismissive. I'm I'm owning up to it. God
was I wrong. He's doing this in a playoff setting
(01:27):
in important games. I thought this was just like one
of those I've just gotten to a new team sort
of reinnovation for a small period of time. This actually
looks sustainable. So good on you, Davion Mitchell for proving
my ass wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think I would have even
predicted this last thing, or him having even close to
the type of impact he had for the Like he's
been able to do stuff offensively, Whereas you look at
Chris Dunn for the Clippers and you worry about him
not being able to do some of the stuff that
Davian Mitchell's been able to do for Miami. That just
makes it harder to figure out what is contract look like.
I assume just because this is sort of a recent breakout,
(02:04):
it's not gonna exceed like far above the mid level
would be my guess.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I mean he's currently shooting above or well not above,
just under seventy percent in the playoffs and averaging seventeen
points per game. Whatever is gonna happen his eighteen, that's
gonna squeeze that for all it's worth. So you know,
we'll see.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I think that the cap landscape would be in favor
of the Heat keeping them no matter what. But they
have to ask themselves, are we be willing to go
in to attacks for a core of bam Tyler Hero,
Khalil Ware and Davion Mitchell's either Like I'm just being
tongue in cheeked there. Bam Adebayo after his extension, he's
gonna be under contract for another four years and two
hundred and two point four million dollars. Tyler Hero has
(02:43):
two years and sixty four million left on his deal.
If you're looking at this team getting better, they can
trade I believe up to two first round picks outright,
because they owe their twenty twenty seven first to Charlotte
with top two protection, and so they can conditionally trade
a twenty nine and a twenty thirty one pick. That's it.
Their twenty twenty five pick is headed to Okasee this year.
(03:04):
They do have, though, what could be some sizeable expiring contracts.
Terry Rozier the weirdest partial guarantee I've ever seen. He's
guaranteed like ninety five percent. He's being guaranteed, so they'll
have him. Duncan Robinson has an ETO, so maybe he
could be a free agent. I don't. I don't think
he'll opt out or to like exercise that. And then
(03:26):
Andrew Wiggins has a twenty six to twenty seven player option.
In theory, then he could be an expiring contract. So
they do have money that they could use to you know,
Matt's salaryes in a larger trade. I just I think
the playoffs, and this was true before the Jimmy trade.
It's kind of just reinforced, right. This team needs a
I think Tyler Hero has improved a bunch. Want to
make that clear. They need a best offensive player though,
(03:49):
Like that is what they need, and I don't know
where they go out and get that player, Like maybe
you could identify some names that would be interesting, but
do they have the assets to get them?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I don't think they do. And that's why I am
taking a pretty harsh approach to this team. You know,
they made it to the playoffs, which means they're not
gonna relinquish the twenty twenty six unprotected to Okay, see
that's a win. They got a Look, they they got
to restart this whole thing. I'm not saying take a sledgehammer,
(04:23):
but I'm also saying let's not take it. Not take
a sledgehammer, Like you can get a ton in return
for bam Adebayo even with the extension kicking in, but
you probably have to do it now while he's like
slapped that middle in his prime, like that's right now,
those are the years right now, Tyler hero is gonna
(04:43):
have two years stufft on his deal come summertime. You
want to get him out the door before that goes
down to one year, because then we're always looking at
that situation where it seem is like, ah, but we're
only getting him for one playoff here, that's not a
whole lot. That value diminishes. I think you got to
press that big red button and see what comes up.
(05:05):
What's unfortunate, of course, is they don't necessarily have their
own picks. They're in a situation where they don't control
their own outcome. So it's like there are more teams
like this out there. I feel like where they've shipped
out so many of their draft picks, meaning they don't
really control their own future, and now they have to
play catch up because there's just stuck the heat or
one of them. So if they can't control their own picks,
(05:26):
they have to control outside picks. That's the only thing
I come up with because running this back, my question
is to what end like even if you go out
and get a guy via the draft picks that you mentioned,
is that a guy who's good enough to be the
number one guy on it on that team, Is that
someone who can come in and be like a perennial
All star for them? No? They what's the alternative?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So I don't I'm actually if they, I think you
could argue that it's actually more appealing for them to
blow it up than even your giving them credit for,
just because it's really they're losing this year's pick, which
is outside the lottery. That's not nothing, but it's okay,
it's the twenty twenty seven pick, And so you could,
in theory say to whatever team wants, bam, you go out,
(06:14):
you find out what it takes to get that pick
from Charlotte, and you included in the package for Bam.
Maybe Charlott's even the team that wants to go out
and trade for BAM. Who, like who knows right here?
I can't I probably would explore that like you would.
I can't picture. Maybe if we know that pat Riley
no longer has to say and I know Andy Ellisberg
does a lot of the heavy lifting there, but this
(06:35):
team has kind of operated under the mantra of we
don't rebuild right, so exactly, I don't think they're gonna
look at that. But I think you're asking the right question.
It's if you can get better, to what end are
you getting better? And I don't know, Like I'll throw
a couple of names out to you that could theory
be on their radar. I just don't. I think you
have to ask two questions, and the first one is
(06:56):
is that player good enough to say, all right, we're
playing for something in the East home court advantage in
the East. And then two, does Miami have the assets
to get that player without training trading Bam at a bio?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Okay, oh, okay, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yep. The first name that comes up and it has
to come up, would be Trey Young.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
So the deal is probably Tyler Hero.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Picks other salary.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It's interesting. I'm gonna give you that. It's interesting. But
at the end of the day, if you give up
Tyler Hero as well, you're still like you're forcing Bam
to be more of an offensive, you know, influencer in
some capacity. Can he do that? Is Tyler Hero? Oh? Sorry,
is Trey Young Bam at a bio? I guess, Andrew
(07:48):
Wiggins and kill a Ware.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Look, maybe Atlanta wants Wigins istead a hero who knows.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Oh, that changes the calculus for me a little bit, though,
if you can get that, if you can get off
or not get off Wickens, because I don't think that's
that sounded negative. I actually think Wickens is good. But
if you can get tray for the Wigans contract and
I get what Kyla Anderson like, let let's actually find
the deal, right, it's gotta be Wickins Anderson, I guess,
(08:19):
and high Smith.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Or I mean you could have there's Rosiers expiring money,
there's Robinson's expiring money.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, then you can expand the trade, all right, and
then the two picks you I think.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
The two picks, especially if you're not including Hero would
have to be in there.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Right right, yeah, if you're If you're not including Hero,
I agree. So that leaves you with a trio, a
leading trio of Trey, Tyler, Hero, and Bam. That's intriguing.
I still I'm left with the same question, Dan, to
what end like, does that a team that I trust
over Cleveland? Is that a team I trust over Boston?
(08:57):
Is that a team I put pretty much at the
same level I dow York.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I do think that if they for some reason figured
out a way to have an above average offense while
playing Trey Young and Tyler Hero together, which they figured
out how to have an above average offense excuse me,
defense is what I meant while having liabilities on the
floor in the past. That gets interesting. But I think
that's what's fun about. I'm not even endorsing it, but
it's okay. Can you get Trey Young short? Is it?
For what you would have to give up to get him?
(09:24):
Doesn't make sense to get him? And that's where it
gets debatable, which comes back to your question. I probably
don't think like because the opportunity cost kind of feels
not that great. But then It's also like, well, Trey
Young needs a new deal, so we're gonna get mega expensive.
I don't think I'm looking at that, so I'll continue
to throw names here. Okay, zach Lavine, with the precursor
(09:45):
of Scott Perry's now in charge in Sacramento. He did
not trade for him. There's actually people have brought back
up the video of Scott Perry saying that Zack Lavine
is overpaid and doesn't provide enough value for what he
is paid. He has since said that him and Zack
Lavine have talked about it in hash out. The Kings
can go a bunch of different directions, but zach Lavine
is that guy where he's really good and you're not
(10:08):
including after matching money. I'm assuming you're not including everything
to get him.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
He's basically a better til of Hero.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Tyler here is probably better passor than him at this point.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I'm not gonna be a better passor. But Levine's efficiency
is no one's talking about it because he's you play
for Chicago and Sacramento this year, so rightfully, so efficiency
was ridiculous. I think he ended up in like the
mid sixties, true shooting percentage, high volume, as well. There's
they definitely get better offensively there because of the efficiency.
(10:40):
Like Sack has this weird reputation both in the league
and the media. I feel like where he's like a
chucker who's like inefficient, where he's like the exact opposite,
the offensive injection, there would be fun and alongside Bam.
But at the end of the day, you're not racing,
you're sealing a hold son Like, Okay, you're replacing tilent
Hero with Teclavine because they sure as heck can't play together.
(11:03):
Is that upgrade enough to even warrant such a trade,
I'm not sure. Like then I'd probably just rather gamble
on Hero, who's well five years younger.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I guess if more so is what I'm saying. What
if Sacramento just wanted like Wiggins and another expiring salary
and you're not getting giving up picks to get zac
Lavine was more so my point?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, all right, well, I mean there's still bees. Then
we still had need a follow up move because the
positional overlap between Hero and Levine is yucky.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, not neither of those. I Well, I don't know.
Tyler here has had some really good moments against the Calves,
but still the other name. Well, I have a couple
other names. Okay, okay, LaMelo ball your favorite.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And you're asking me of all people. Uh no, no,
I think pat Riley would go absolutely bananas after the
first couple of practices.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
I just for what the heat can give up. If
you can get LaMelo ball, I'm not gonna lie be
tempted because they just can't give up a ton.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Perhaps that's the place for LaMelo to iron out his
poor habits. I'll get Miami. That's the well, not the city.
I meant the organization. But you raise a fair point.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
What about we'll go to the other end of this
because we just talked about those two players. Not an
instinctive fit, but again, probably doesn't cost you everything. Zion Williamson.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Okay, now we're talking. That's fun. Now, now we're now
we're into this might actually be fun territory.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Hold on, if you don't think LaMelo ball is the
answer for a team or you have, that's fine. You
can't tell me LaMelo ball man Outebayo wouldn't make for
fun basketball. I refuse, I don't.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
We've been through this several times, you and I I
do not find LaMelo ball entertaining in the slightest I
am finding infuriatingly frustrating.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
We got we got aggregated on Twitter the other day
from that cons I don't know if you saw it,
and it was I saw. The response is they clearly
had no idea the tenor of the conversation because they
were saying we were both wrong and we were arguing
like there was one of two answers and we were
arguing in opposite side to them.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
And so it was no. I left to that a
great deal. I actually forgot to share it with you
because I did see it. But no, yeah, people are
are weird.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Look, oh, I have no getting aggregated.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I find oh no, no me neither sion when healthy, at
least when I'm saying fun, I do mean like in
terms of the production, right, Like when he's healthy, he's
he's right up there, like he's up there among the best,
Like he is so highly influential, He's gotten better as
a rebounder, he's gotten better defender. It's all about the
lack of availability. And you can say the same about
(13:49):
LaMelo too, Like both those guys are like tremendously unavailable.
But I do think Sion provides the higher ceiling, the
lamello and significantly so uh just off the impact there.
That would be fun because he would actually have that
type of center. Like remember I've said this a couple
of times where I thought the Pelicans should have gone
(14:11):
out in their way to find a way to get
killer Ware because I think that's the player you need
to put alongside Scion. Well, Kililware is in Miami. And
you know who's also is bam Adebayo Bamada. Bio's also
begins to stretch the floor. He's also a law threat.
He's also a defender rebounder. Now you have two guys
who are like Taylor made to be alongside Zion.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
My guess is, and maybe the Pelicans feel differently with
Eves Mesi being there. But if you're not trading Tyler Hero,
I think khalil Ware is certainly in the Zion Williams.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
That's fair, Okay, I can buy that. I can accept that.
But they as long as they still have Bam, I'll
live with it. I still love the idea of Kittill
where alongside Zion though, but like, yeah, it's Bam is better.
I get that if you run that well, like, let's
run that back by the way, if they offer one
of the picks instead of killerware, so.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
You're like you're thinking new or there's just gonna dump
Zion for a first round pick and Andrew Wiggins and
Kyle Anderson.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Maybe two picks they can offer two, right.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I mean, if if it's just the picks and then money,
sign me.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Up, right. I mean, I don't know, I don't I
don't think anybody really knows what Scion's value is right now,
especially now that Joe Dumars is leading the whole thing there.
We we have no idea, Like the Pelicans have just
turned everything inside out. Now they're making evaluations their own
evaluations of where they stamp with certain players. Like we
(15:33):
sort of had an idea of how David Griffin thought
of Sion for a long time, like he wasn't keen
on trading him, he was buying into the upside. It's
Joe dumar is doing that same thing. We have no idea,
like there might be an organizational shift where they are thinking, no,
you know what, like science not available, we don't think
highly of him. Let's just get out of that whole
situation where you know you could look at two picks
(15:56):
from Miami, where David Griffin would probably, you know, tell them,
tell my amage to shove it. Joe Tumors might be
telling them, tell me more.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, that was the Remember the initial reporting was in
that since moved back. I want to make it clear
that part of Joe the stipulation was Jojiymores needed to
move on for Zion Williamson, which is just I think
that's a dumb stipulation because his contract just giving the
number of outs is not toxic. And by the way,
you think the Heat would be in there trying to
renegotiate the weight limit protection where I think now he
(16:27):
needs to be less than two ninety five he're and
be like, you need to be less than two seventy
five or something. They would definitely try and do that.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So it's Winny, Yeah, oh my god, look it's it's
it's the heat, right, Heat culture. No, but that would
be fun, Like that's probably the one name where I
can talk myself into all right, let's let's try to
keep this going in some capacity.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
The good this is I'm not endorsing any of these,
I'm just trying to make us think I have a
couple other names. Okay, Kevin Durant.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
He's oh again, that's he'd be in that trade.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It's the picks and it's uh, it's salary, like you're
keeping Hero and Bam and where.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Look when you're trading draft picks for a guy who's
like that old, it's like you have like you have
to put yourself in a situation where you can win
a championship. I don't think you do that with DuRane necessarily,
as much as I love him.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
That's that's probably the most of all the names we mentioned, though,
that would be the most instinctual trio, right with Tyler,
HEROKD and Bam.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Right, yeah, yeah, Because look, I still subscribe to the
idea that if you want to run with like the
three stars setup, it is ultimately the best to have
like a main guard, a main wing, and a main big.
So yes, absolutely that would work.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
What about Ja Morant?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
No, no, thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I figure that was gonna be a quick note. Now
this is kind of on the smaller side, but again,
it enables you to keep a lot of your roster intact.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Kobe White, Yeah, yeah, absolutely immediately, because again, you the
salary alone is so easy to overcome from one year
and for one that's the thing. And because it's one year,
the Bulls can't even make like first and foremost they're
shitty negotiators, but they can't even make the argument that
they're going to have him, you know, for longer than
(18:25):
that one year. The Bulls should have traded them at
the trade deadline. They did not. So now you're left
in that situation where you're going to the summer, if
you're fielding offers from White, Everyone's going to say, well,
he's not locked up for a long time, and we
have to go into the same situation as you where
we can't offer him an extension because the one and
(18:46):
extension limit exists. All right. That lowers the price tag.
I'm sorry, but it just does. That's a name where
Miami can actually whether they rebuild or retool or not
or stay the course, they can still go get his ass,
would you do.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Let's just say no picks are involved. It's just a
matter of matching the money because they want to get
out of this contract. Do you see where I'm going
with this?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Not sure yet?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
No, Well, George, I'm just I don't even know. Maybe
the Sixers say no, but as an exercise. You're just
giving up. You're sending out contracts to make the money work,
roping in whatever other teams you need. No, I would
do it. You're out of your mind. Why no picks?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Well, like, okay, so no picks and I still get
to overpay him for the next four years. Lucky me
for three years three Sorry I corrected myself, sir.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Hold on, hold on, and two of those are important
to be semi competitive. But I guess you if you
want to do a one year tank, sure, but at
least twenty twenty seven, you need to be as good
as possible right now because your pick is headed out
so like and Paul George, he didn't ruin the Sixers
tank this year. He always misses some games. So if
you want to do the one year tank and run
it back with you know, age forty five, Paul George
(20:08):
in twenty twenty six and that top end draft pick, if.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
You don't realize that Paul George is turning thirty five
in like three days, right right.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Here's my thing. If the if Philly just decided they
don't want that contract and they're willing to take Terry
Rose year plus whatever money, like maybe it's Terry Rozier
and Andrew Wiggins. I might consider it.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Of course. I mean, look, yeah, if you're if you're Miami,
I wouldn't consider it. If look, of course you as
the Sixers. If that's what it takes to get off
that horrible.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
From Miami's perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Wheah, I know, but like that's that's such a win
for Philly. It's insane.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Andrew Wiggins could deftically have an extra year left on
this deal. So you're saying you'd rather just be out
of the Paul George business. You're so out on Paul George.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah? Absolutely? Did you have you seen this guy this
year and you expect him to get better? He's the
injury history.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
There's a higher baseline. It's not that I expect Paul
George to go to Miami and have a career year.
There's a much higher baseline than what he's working off
of from this season.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Are we sure there still is?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yes? I think Paul George is one of the most
plug and play stars in the league.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Great that worked out so well for Philly In the
forty one games he played this year.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
How many games? First of all, how many games would
he have played in if Philly actually had anything to
play for.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That is a fair quare Still the production, the production
that will drop like a rock.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I think if you're going to focus on why Miami
shouldn't do that, I think the plot is being missed
if you don't say, well, we want a primary advantage creator.
He comes in and we still favor Tyler Hero in
that instance, and you're trying to get around that.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
For the most part, I understand you. No, I understand
your argument. Just fine. It's the contract that scares the
Bejesus out of me.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I think if it's cast me because Terry Rozier doesn't
even look like he should be an NBA player, and
maybe he comes back and he is great, but if
it's costing me that and then Andrew Wiggins took like
as two years left on his deal and just you
can't unless unless he's gonna turn the clock back to
twenty twenty two, which is the anomaly on his career resume.
You're kind of can look at it and talking to
yourself in all right, well, it's really like two years
(22:21):
of Paul George like being extra on the wait.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think Andrew Wiggins right now is the better basketball player.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Oh sorry, I can't.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And oh oh we had snop Dan show up there. Okay,
fair enough to me.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
If you're saying Andrew Wiggins had the better season, I
don't think that's arguable.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I think you're right, right right.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
If you're asking me who, I would just rather have
an a vacuum next year if you want to get
I guess Okay, Andrew Wiggins is making what twenty million
dollars less than Paul George or whatever. That's probably fair.
But as players in a vacuum next season, I would
say that I want Paul George on my team rather
than Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I'm I'm I'm Wickins. I I don't because again I'm
also baking in availability. That's part of it.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
I g what is what is the argument? So your
arg so then what is the argument for Andrew Wickins
is the better basketball player? Just that your so?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Okay, So, first and foremost, the production level I think
is is comparable. First and foremost, I think Wiggins because
he's younger. I think he's found his game at a
much higher since this year than we've seen before. I
think we can throw last year and parts of the
year before out because there was a lot of personal
things that went on and people were way too quick
(23:37):
to kind of rule him out, like saying, oh, he
can't play anymore, he's peaked. Whatever we were seeing this year,
that was a bunch of bullshit. Okay, I think there's
a very good two way player in there. I think
his three point shot has gotten better. Yes, is he
look Is Paul George a better primary creator? Absolutely, I'm
not gonna dispute that. But there is a time when
(24:01):
someone reaches an age and they have that one year
drop off, I think, and that's like the new norm.
I'm not sure we can rule that out that that
was the year for PEG this year. Like I'm also
not saying it was with absolute certainty. There's a world
where in you could absolutely be right. But if this
was the drop off year and that trend is only
going to continue, like he's only getting gonna get worse,
(24:24):
I will not in any way sit here and argue
on behalf of him over Wickens.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Sorry, I think I would feel very uneasy about the
Paul George creation aspect, like I said before, because if
he comes in, I think you still look at Tyler
Hero as your best advantage creator, and that's somewhat problematic.
But the balance of one three five, I guess I'm
looking at it as if you're trying to swing for
the fences as Miami rather than rebuild. I think if
your highest end outcome is glitzier, if you have Paul
(24:53):
George versus if you have Andrew Wigins, you can talk
about the likelihood of reaching that highest end outcome. Yeah,
let's say I'll frame it this way. Let's say you're
seventy percent likely to reach your highest end outcome with
Andrew Wiggins and twenty percent likely to reach your highest
end outcome with Paul George. The highest end outcome that
you have a twenty percent chance at, I just think
is going to be so much higher than that Andrew
Wiggins highest end outcome that I'm just going to fill
(25:16):
your nice because otherwise you're just kind of spinning your
wheels in This is exact Miami team with some fuzzing
and fiddling on the margins. How good are they next year?
Can they get to forty five wins? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
No particularly, But I don't necessarily think they're going to
be a lot better with Paul George. But what I
do understand you're saying is that you want to swing,
you want to swing big, and you want to take
some risk. I appreciate the balsiness of that. I do,
but the contract loan is toxic and I don't think,
like I said, necessarily that I think he's even an
(25:48):
upgrade for intro Wiggins, although I do think he plucks
more holes that I will give you. But then there's
the availability or lack thereof, like it's just it's the
combined package of question marks.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
How many shamos does Andrew Wiggins' podcast too more?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
This is all said, God be there, you gotta be
there that Daniel we want the argument.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
This is all to say I wouldn't trade for Paul
George ifouls Miami. So we're arguing kind of over the
same thing. I have a couple other names. Again, I
actually don't think I might endorse one of these, and
I think his trade value would have had to drop
for the Heat to be able to get him. Larry Marketen.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
He is not off.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
You probably have to go to Utah and say, maybe
you could get away with not giving Khalil Whare But
there's a chance that it's probably both those picks swaps
or is it khalil ware a picks while it's it's
something like that.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
So it depends on what you think. So this is
actually interesting. Do you subscribe to the idea that Laurie
Marketing can be a good first option?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
It's so would you have could so ask another question,
would you have considered him? He was like a primary
option as a play finisher? And I think he can
do that.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
That is a good answer because that is exactly what
he is. So you were talking about play creation, right,
how does Lauri Markinen solve that? Well, especially his salary.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I think he makes it the jobs easier on Tyler
Hero and bam Adebayo to where it's the advantage creation
you get from them, which you want higher end of
it because there's a higher threat level on the court
who can give you a little bit of self creation,
but it's just a threat from anywhere. And is this
like he's I can't remember who said this, so I
apologize and I don't. This isn't like a perfect comparison,
but they compared Larry Market into a seven foot Clay Thompson.
(27:40):
It's just like that's if you put that, I think
by virtue putting that on your roster. It increases the
value of whatever self creation and facilitations already.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
There, right, Can I just can I just pickyback off
of that one and give Ricky O'Donnell some love on
this because even when market was in an Arizona, Ricky
O'Donnell back then, so way back in seven twenty seventeen
basically said he's a seven foot shooting guard. And I
think that is probably the best description of Lauri marketing
(28:10):
we've ever seen, and no one's really picked up on it,
and that is exactly what his career has been. I
love him as a play finisher. What I would worry
about if I'm Miami, presumably I'm staying like I'm keeping
this train moving because I want to make some noise
in the playoffs. I wonder if, even if they do
well in the regular season with him as a play finisher,
(28:31):
making life easier on both BAM and Hero, is, is
that going to be taken away in the playoffs? Because
I would imagine.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
So, I'm probably with you just because it would take
most of your assets and I don't think the payoff
is there, right, Would you rather give up your assets
to get Larry markin or just give up money to
get Paul George like contracts to get Paul George.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Uh, I'm just gonna instead jump off of the highest
cliff I find.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, I so we have to mention this name. We
mentioned it when we did our bucks. Where are they
going from here? Thing? You would do it, but we're
in agreement. I don't see the path to the heat
keeping Bam out of bio and getting honest attend tokopo's
non no correct.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Nope, nope, let's go back to a team.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Excuse me? Maybe wanted to get off a contract again.
I don't see it all right, Joel embiid.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Oh see that's at least more intriguing the PG. However,
what like Embat himself is like, no, I'm not going
to play in back to backs anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Like it's.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
You know what, I want to get there, but I
can't Dan like I want to get there. I just no,
I can't. It's too again. I'm I'm very risk averse.
You know this of me. I can't. I can't say
that leave, I can't commit. All right, I'll be I'll
be fleeing the altar if I'm standing there. I won't
do it. No, the contract cool stuff is too much.
(30:01):
The injury patterns are too much. I can't. Sorry, even if.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
It was just money in one first round pick and
my money, I do contracts. For anyone who's thinking that,
I'm like, I'm not Babe ruthing this or like giving
up just cash for right, So.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
It's like weekends Duncan Robinson and.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Terry Rode whatever the money whatever contract or bam.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Bam at the four would be fun next to bead.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I think that, by the way, I think the Sixers
only consider something like that if they win the lottery
and it's let's reorient around Cooper flag and exactly we're
done here.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I might get you could talk me into that, but
like the oh the potential downside again it's catastrophic.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Oh yeah, speaking of catastrophic, Oh no, you're coming with now,
this is another one. We don't want to give up
assets to do this, so we're just trying to get
better on the court.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Bradley Beal, I actually don't hate that as much.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Again I do so here we just can't hit all
over Paul George, Like Bradley Beal.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Here's the thing. Here's the thing I don't hate Bradley
Peel on a vacuum going there. However, because Tyler Hero
is there and I value him obviously significantly more than
Bradley Beale, I don't buy into it because again we've
seen him now he couldn't like the position to overlap.
I think it's I think it's real with the shooting
guards specifically, they have such a hard time finding their spots.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I think if you could get some of because I
viewed Devin Booker as one of the most underrated passers
in the league, but we've seen he has his limitations.
He kind of needs a decision making big is what
he's best next to, not necessarily these rim like flat
out rim runners in Miami's case though, and this was
similar with Devin Booker. So I think you would still
probably want like a Floord, like would Chris Paul come
in and make whatever money and you're playing a little smaller.
(32:04):
Tyler Hero can be so good off the ball that
it's just like I think it would feel less rid.
Not that Devin Booker can't be, but when you also
have Kevin Durant in the fold and like Bam plays
just a different position and it's used to being a
play finisher big when he's not having the ball. I
think you can make it work. And again, I think
it's all about the cost perspective of if you're just
giving up contracts to make this work like the Sons
(32:26):
are doing it for Terry Rozier and I take your pick.
You want Dougan Robinson or would you prefer to just
give up Andrew Wiggins in that?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Like, I'm still saying no, because I still like, despite
what you just outlined, I'm not necessarily buying into, you know,
real in a high volume ball handling capability like I
like him. I thought, I think it's interesting at the least.
I think that's that's a situation where you know, the
system would at least give him a chance to return
(32:55):
to some level of what he used to be, but
just not specifically alongside Tally Hero.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Uh So I wouldn't do it, Okay, I think you're
not an catch an argument for me on that I
have at least two more names.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I feel like you keep coming up with two more names.
It's great.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Some of them are. Some of them are just springing
to me. I don't I'm just saying because I don't
know what's gonna happen here. We already know this player
wants to re evaluate his future, right domas a bonus.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, I had a feeling you to go there.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Now, I think I want to say this. I'm not
necessarily in favor of it, but I think people would
hona actually assume no, that would shrink the floor. And
like Doma's been shooting the three pretty well the past
couple of seasons, we know Bam can give a little stretch.
I don't think defenses would much care, but it'd be
would we have ever seen It's kind of like I
don't think that people are talking about have we ever
seen as much just like transcendent playmaking on one team
(33:49):
as you could get in Lebron and Luca? Have we
ever seen two playmaking bigs on the same team like
Doms and Bam And.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
And also you know what be funny is both of
them are sort of reluctant score like they can do
so much more offensively than what they're doing. Like heat
fans would lose their marbles after the first two months
because both those guys are gonna be like looking at
each other, They're gonna be averaging like a modest seventeen
per game, and everyone is just looking at it like,
oh nuts, one of you, Like one of you should
(34:17):
average twenty five because both have the capability of doing so.
But like, at least BAM represents a much more intriguing
big man pairing option for some bonus then and a
lot of other alternatives around the league, like that might
be the guy to pair up front with the bonus
of anything.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I don't think. I mean, i'd be interest see how
Spoe uses them together, but I don't think I could
get on board with that. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
It's gonna be difficult, Like spacing is real, I feel
like that should be so.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
The other one I have. I think it's an ultra
long shot. But let's say this team wants to get cheaper.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
If the rest of this list hasn't been long shots, yeah,
go ahead.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I'm just trying. I'm trying to have it. I'm not
advocating for any of these. I'm just trying to have
a discussion, and you're getting you're you're assigning I don't
know whatever to be here, sounding like.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Someone on Fox News. I'm just asking questions. I'm just.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I'm just trying to see your both sides wrong with that. Look,
this team want let's say this. I'm gonna lay the
ground here. This team wants to get cheaper. And what
you're looking at probably is like, okay, they're going to
get some smaller contracts in return. There's other teams that
are being roped into offset the cost you're probably commanding.
The two first round picks and Khalil laware in addition
(35:38):
to salary at minimum.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Jailing Brown, all right, yeah, yeah, you found an exception.
All right, you found a name that's interesting. He's the
primary win So.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Shocked I found it. I just named half the league.
I was bound to find a few.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, well you finally hit right, Okay, because you have
the you have the guard set up in Hero, you
have Bam. Now you have like the primary wing who
can focus a lot on scoring and the two way play.
So look, I'm I'm more interested in that. But I
do have a question, and I think it's I think
(36:17):
it's fair to ask. I think a lot of people
are probably glossing it over because you know, it's the Celtics.
Do they really take the regular season all that serious
and whatnot?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
But like.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
It feels like Jalen did not have a great scoring
year this year, and I feel I feel like last
year also wasn't, at least in some parts. He turned
it on in the playoffs, but like, I don't know
if he's the same guy that he used to be
a couple of years ago, Like can he regain that
(36:50):
high level scoring punch you think I think he needs to?
In my Yami specifically, I.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Just wonder, because you did mention last year like this
year how to be felt like it was injury related.
He was dealing with knee stuff for months.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah he was.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I just I think I would do it if I'm Miami,
and I probably woudn't even think twice. I'm more so
thinking is that enough value if if Boston was to
go look to move Jalen Brown? And I guess what
you're trying to accomplish is we want to get someone
like a young guy or a chief guy who's playable,
another cheap mid end contract. I'm assuming Andrew Wiggins is
maybe part of that, and then some draft equity just
(37:28):
checks those boxes. But is there a team that like
Khalil where Andrew Wiggins and two picks like that's But
I'm also like, well, would other teams just give up
more for Jalen Brown.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
See that's the thing I don't know. I mean the
contract that's also attached to Brown. I actually have no
idea how that's viewed around the league.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Especially now to where I think, and I actually think
you mentioned Jaron Jackson Junior, not on this podcast, but
another one we did. He might end up being like
a good case study in will how teams to give
out a supermax to these non top ten guys when
they're eligible.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Like even if you already read my Memphis piece, because
you know what I mentioned in there. I mentioned in
there that I think we might reaching that point where
we shouldn't dismiss the one hundred and forty percent extension
limit out of hand with him.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, I mean that feels almost extreme, but I guess
based off some of the moments we saw against the
like thunder Serial was a game one, he had more
turnovers than defensive rebounds, right, so eight.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
That would start, by the way, the veteran extensional started
forty two point seven million.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Maybe that's the right number, but I meant also, I
meant more so because I'm looking at it at Jaylen Brown,
just how his contract would be viewed is just like
if if Jared Jackson is Jafon jecktion're gonna be the
first test of not a top fifteen player. And it's
not even just about giving him the supermax, but like
you could technically give him less than the supermax. We
saw that happen with Rudy Gobert in Utah, right, But
(38:53):
is he the like kind of the first inflection point
of no, Like, we're not even doing that for these
guys unless they're just auto top ten may be like
auto top fifteen players, which Jalen Brown in any given
season sure as just an auto no. And so now
wondering as teams are structuring their books, how do you
view that contract, and it's it's a I think Jallen
(39:14):
Brown's fantastic player. He can make all NBA in a
given season, and it has to be fair. But that's
why I think, well, then maybe Miami if he was
available in Boston new ownership maybe looking to cut costs
make the rest of the core more sustainable. But then
the other part of me does think that there would
be more palatable offers on the table if I was
to guess what right for Jaalen you mean Jalen Brown.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Okay, can I throw out another name then if you're
out of the contract, Jaron Jackson Jr.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, might be the right team if they're pivoting on,
Like if Memphis is pivoting off both him and rand
which I wouldn't be against honestly, might be the right
to stop fouling and actually grab a freaking rebound.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Oh he's not gonna I think we've the rebounding and
the this is not gonna happen, I mean, And also,
is he giving you enough of a scoring punch? He's
a lot better as a scorer, but is it enough
because this is costing you. It's the two first and
khalil ware like that is plus other stuffy right of course.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
But to underline your scoring point, I mean, this dude
averages almost twenty seven per game per thirty six like this,
this is the ball he was.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
He was in the ninetieth percentile of self created shot
making efficiency this year. That's not that's a that's a
big deal for sure.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yep. It's it's a good one. It's a good It's
like again, it comes down to where are we with
him and in a playoff context, because as I was
writing that piece. Whatever he does in the regular season,
whatever however impressive it is, he sort of drops the
(40:56):
ball in the playoffs. He was very Julius Rantle with
the Knicks playoff experience. And if you're the heat, I
presume you're looking ahead and into a playoff series and
not just how you fare in the regular season. So
like that would concern me. I understand it's just the
twenty seven game sample size for the playoffs with JJJ,
(41:17):
I get that, like perhaps the change of scenery something
else might.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
And also if you're it's different for any team that's
acquiring him because you have to worry about free agency,
but it's not, Oh, you don't have to worry about,
oh do we pay him the super max? Are close
to it? Because that's just immediately off the table.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Then right, I'm not opposed to it, I will say.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Per Jalen, even on his current deal for its yes, I.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Think the baseline there is higher. And I again, it's
the thing with me when I look at these guys
who struggle in the postseason but dominate more or less
in the regular season, it just like it does affect
how I value them money wise, And like in terms
of what I would be willing to relinquish from in
a trade market. For example, I'm like some people might
(42:01):
be ready to just go get Jaron Jackson Junior for
basically whatever. I'm not there.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Do you have any other names that you'd like? Did
I throw out enough names for you, many of which
were off rip They weren't all in my notes.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
I appreciate the creativity, sir. I really do very glad
you didn't bring up Kyle Kuzma, because I would have
just left.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
No.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
So I think we're well, let me think, I think you.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I didn't expect you to go there right off the bat,
but I do think that if you're the heat, if
we were taking the cold, distant perspective, which that's kind
of our job to do, but we also try and
live in the reality of these teams. Tearing it down
is a pretty palatable course, but just giving their aversion
to rebuilding, and look, you can argue about the not
you specifically, you can argue about that pick headed Charlotte
(42:50):
in twenty seven. That's not enough of a debt, like
an impediment to me to say rebuilding shouldn't be on
the table. And if you think you can, for some
reason rebuild around Bam and Tyler Hero. Sure, but I
think the exercise that we just went through showed you
how difficult that would be.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yes, it's fun. There is one name that would just
make me reconsider everything. But He's he's gonna take so
much more to get to get that's book right, like
you would have to. It's Hero would have to be involved,
Like it would almost be like a major retooling process
you would do.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
You think it would become so if you went I
don't know why Houston would then do this if they
know that Miami is getting booked, but it's hey, can
we get any of those Phoenix suns picks and then
you include that in a package with Phoenix might appreciate that.
I mean, if you're training book they might even care
about getting Hero. So she's, oh, you're gonna have Like
maybe maybe Houston wants Hero because he costs less than
getting Booker.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah, that's fun.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
He's better. I think people they'll be pushed back from Rockston.
Tyler heroes better than Jalen Green on offense, right, just
the playmaking in general, yep.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, Offensively speaking, yes, and speaking off of this season, Yes,
but Devin Pooker is the one guy for me, ironically
also for Houston, who you just outlined there.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Like well, that's my point is like, well I wouldn't.
I'm not helping another.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Right, No, no exactly, But it's kind of funny that
I think the book specifically is a guy who can
go in and solve a lot of these teams that
are sort of not stuck. I don't want to say stuck,
but like where you can see there's there's ample reason
to continue this this path that we're on by getting
(44:27):
book because he can sort of elevate you, sorry, to
a different tier. So but the thing, rightfully, so Feoedix
should be asking for the moon.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, and the heat don't have the moon. They don't
even have they don't have the moon, they don't even
have the atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I don't think to get into that, correct, And that's
where they're in. Life's the issue.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Can you tell our listeners where they can find you
and all the work that you do, mister more Jensen.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yes, sir, you can find my work over at bluse
guy at m s J NBA where I link out
to Danish pop. It's the NBA pod Yahoo stuff, Forbes stuff,
occasionally sports illustrated stuff. I need to go back and
write something sometimes sometimes soon we need to go right
and go back and right there. It's been a while,
so you can find all my work over at Blue Sky.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Until next time, and as always, wet the shout out
to the one, the only, the future member of the
Miami Heat, mister Paul George
What is up? Fellasiko's I'm Dan fa Valley, once again
joined by Mort Jensen of the NBA Podcast, fame of
Yahoo Sports, Fame, of Forbes Fame, and of OnlyFans Celebrity
be on the lookout for his blend of naughty slash
NBA crossover content. We are here to talk about the
Miami Heat, beginning another off season of what the hell
(00:26):
do we do? Now? Where do we go? They are?
I find every team fascinating. I say it's about every
team when we do look ahead, I'm like, oh, this
team is so fascinating. Moret Well, before he gets started,
how are you doing since we last talked like five
seconds ago?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Doing well? Feeling slightly worse that we're talking about the
Miami Heat?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yes, yeah, so let's get let's get into some of
just their like off season vitals here, which are you know,
they're not going to be pretty, but they do exist.
So Miami, they're about nine point three million below the
luxury tax. That's not including a potential new deal for
Davion Mitchell, who was a restricted free agent and turned
out to be pretty important to them and pretty good
(01:04):
for them to be fair.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
By the way, Mayakopa on that because you and I
spoke about Davion Mitchell. I want to say a month ago,
where I was very dismissive of him. I was like, yeah, sure,
he's doing well in like March, like who cares. I
was very dismissive. I'm I'm owning up to it. God
was I wrong. He's doing this in a playoff setting
(01:27):
in important games. I thought this was just like one
of those I've just gotten to a new team sort
of reinnovation for a small period of time. This actually
looks sustainable. So good on you, Davion Mitchell for proving
my ass wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think I would have even
predicted this last thing, or him having even close to
the type of impact he had for the Like he's
been able to do stuff offensively, Whereas you look at
Chris Dunn for the Clippers and you worry about him
not being able to do some of the stuff that
Davian Mitchell's been able to do for Miami. That just
makes it harder to figure out what is contract look like.
I assume just because this is sort of a recent breakout,
(02:04):
it's not gonna exceed like far above the mid level
would be my guess.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I mean he's currently shooting above or well not above,
just under seventy percent in the playoffs and averaging seventeen
points per game. Whatever is gonna happen his eighteen, that's
gonna squeeze that for all it's worth. So you know,
we'll see.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I think that the cap landscape would be in favor
of the Heat keeping them no matter what. But they
have to ask themselves, are we be willing to go
in to attacks for a core of bam Tyler Hero,
Khalil Ware and Davion Mitchell's either Like I'm just being
tongue in cheeked there. Bam Adebayo after his extension, he's
gonna be under contract for another four years and two
hundred and two point four million dollars. Tyler Hero has
(02:43):
two years and sixty four million left on his deal.
If you're looking at this team getting better, they can
trade I believe up to two first round picks outright,
because they owe their twenty twenty seven first to Charlotte
with top two protection, and so they can conditionally trade
a twenty nine and a twenty thirty one pick. That's it.
Their twenty twenty five pick is headed to Okasee this year.
(03:04):
They do have, though, what could be some sizeable expiring contracts.
Terry Rozier the weirdest partial guarantee I've ever seen. He's
guaranteed like ninety five percent. He's being guaranteed, so they'll
have him. Duncan Robinson has an ETO, so maybe he
could be a free agent. I don't. I don't think
he'll opt out or to like exercise that. And then
(03:26):
Andrew Wiggins has a twenty six to twenty seven player option.
In theory, then he could be an expiring contract. So
they do have money that they could use to you know,
Matt's salaryes in a larger trade. I just I think
the playoffs, and this was true before the Jimmy trade.
It's kind of just reinforced, right. This team needs a
I think Tyler Hero has improved a bunch. Want to
make that clear. They need a best offensive player though,
(03:49):
Like that is what they need, and I don't know
where they go out and get that player, Like maybe
you could identify some names that would be interesting, but
do they have the assets to get them?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I don't think they do. And that's why I am
taking a pretty harsh approach to this team. You know,
they made it to the playoffs, which means they're not
gonna relinquish the twenty twenty six unprotected to Okay, see
that's a win. They got a Look, they they got
to restart this whole thing. I'm not saying take a sledgehammer,
(04:23):
but I'm also saying let's not take it. Not take
a sledgehammer, Like you can get a ton in return
for bam Adebayo even with the extension kicking in, but
you probably have to do it now while he's like
slapped that middle in his prime, like that's right now,
those are the years right now, Tyler hero is gonna
(04:43):
have two years stufft on his deal come summertime. You
want to get him out the door before that goes
down to one year, because then we're always looking at
that situation where it seem is like, ah, but we're
only getting him for one playoff here, that's not a
whole lot. That value diminishes. I think you got to
press that big red button and see what comes up.
(05:05):
What's unfortunate, of course, is they don't necessarily have their
own picks. They're in a situation where they don't control
their own outcome. So it's like there are more teams
like this out there. I feel like where they've shipped
out so many of their draft picks, meaning they don't
really control their own future, and now they have to
play catch up because there's just stuck the heat or
one of them. So if they can't control their own picks,
(05:26):
they have to control outside picks. That's the only thing
I come up with because running this back, my question
is to what end like even if you go out
and get a guy via the draft picks that you mentioned,
is that a guy who's good enough to be the
number one guy on it on that team, Is that
someone who can come in and be like a perennial
All star for them? No? They what's the alternative?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So I don't I'm actually if they, I think you
could argue that it's actually more appealing for them to
blow it up than even your giving them credit for,
just because it's really they're losing this year's pick, which
is outside the lottery. That's not nothing, but it's okay,
it's the twenty twenty seven pick, And so you could,
in theory say to whatever team wants, bam, you go out,
(06:14):
you find out what it takes to get that pick
from Charlotte, and you included in the package for Bam.
Maybe Charlott's even the team that wants to go out
and trade for BAM. Who, like who knows right here?
I can't I probably would explore that like you would.
I can't picture. Maybe if we know that pat Riley
no longer has to say and I know Andy Ellisberg
does a lot of the heavy lifting there, but this
(06:35):
team has kind of operated under the mantra of we
don't rebuild right, so exactly, I don't think they're gonna
look at that. But I think you're asking the right question.
It's if you can get better, to what end are
you getting better? And I don't know, Like I'll throw
a couple of names out to you that could theory
be on their radar. I just don't. I think you
have to ask two questions, and the first one is
(06:56):
is that player good enough to say, all right, we're
playing for something in the East home court advantage in
the East. And then two, does Miami have the assets
to get that player without training trading Bam at a bio?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Okay, oh, okay, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yep. The first name that comes up and it has
to come up, would be Trey Young.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
So the deal is probably Tyler Hero.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Picks other salary.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It's interesting. I'm gonna give you that. It's interesting. But
at the end of the day, if you give up
Tyler Hero as well, you're still like you're forcing Bam
to be more of an offensive, you know, influencer in
some capacity. Can he do that? Is Tyler Hero? Oh? Sorry,
is Trey Young Bam at a bio? I guess, Andrew
(07:48):
Wiggins and kill a Ware.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Look, maybe Atlanta wants Wigins istead a hero who knows.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Oh, that changes the calculus for me a little bit, though,
if you can get that, if you can get off
or not get off Wickens, because I don't think that's
that sounded negative. I actually think Wickens is good. But
if you can get tray for the Wigans contract and
I get what Kyla Anderson like, let let's actually find
the deal, right, it's gotta be Wickins Anderson, I guess,
(08:19):
and high Smith.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Or I mean you could have there's Rosiers expiring money,
there's Robinson's expiring money.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, then you can expand the trade, all right, and
then the two picks you I think.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
The two picks, especially if you're not including Hero would
have to be in there.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Right right, yeah, if you're If you're not including Hero,
I agree. So that leaves you with a trio, a
leading trio of Trey, Tyler, Hero, and Bam. That's intriguing.
I still I'm left with the same question, Dan, to
what end like, does that a team that I trust
over Cleveland? Is that a team I trust over Boston?
(08:57):
Is that a team I put pretty much at the
same level I dow York.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I do think that if they for some reason figured
out a way to have an above average offense while
playing Trey Young and Tyler Hero together, which they figured
out how to have an above average offense excuse me,
defense is what I meant while having liabilities on the
floor in the past. That gets interesting. But I think
that's what's fun about. I'm not even endorsing it, but
it's okay. Can you get Trey Young short? Is it?
For what you would have to give up to get him?
(09:24):
Doesn't make sense to get him? And that's where it
gets debatable, which comes back to your question. I probably
don't think like because the opportunity cost kind of feels
not that great. But then It's also like, well, Trey
Young needs a new deal, so we're gonna get mega expensive.
I don't think I'm looking at that, so I'll continue
to throw names here. Okay, zach Lavine, with the precursor
(09:45):
of Scott Perry's now in charge in Sacramento. He did
not trade for him. There's actually people have brought back
up the video of Scott Perry saying that Zack Lavine
is overpaid and doesn't provide enough value for what he
is paid. He has since said that him and Zack
Lavine have talked about it in hash out. The Kings
can go a bunch of different directions, but zach Lavine
is that guy where he's really good and you're not
(10:08):
including after matching money. I'm assuming you're not including everything
to get him.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
He's basically a better til of Hero.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Tyler here is probably better passor than him at this point.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I'm not gonna be a better passor. But Levine's efficiency
is no one's talking about it because he's you play
for Chicago and Sacramento this year, so rightfully, so efficiency
was ridiculous. I think he ended up in like the
mid sixties, true shooting percentage, high volume, as well. There's
they definitely get better offensively there because of the efficiency.
(10:40):
Like Sack has this weird reputation both in the league
and the media. I feel like where he's like a
chucker who's like inefficient, where he's like the exact opposite,
the offensive injection, there would be fun and alongside Bam.
But at the end of the day, you're not racing,
you're sealing a hold son Like, Okay, you're replacing tilent
Hero with Teclavine because they sure as heck can't play together.
(11:03):
Is that upgrade enough to even warrant such a trade,
I'm not sure. Like then I'd probably just rather gamble
on Hero, who's well five years younger.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I guess if more so is what I'm saying. What
if Sacramento just wanted like Wiggins and another expiring salary
and you're not getting giving up picks to get zac
Lavine was more so my point?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, all right, well, I mean there's still bees. Then
we still had need a follow up move because the
positional overlap between Hero and Levine is yucky.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, not neither of those. I Well, I don't know.
Tyler here has had some really good moments against the Calves,
but still the other name. Well, I have a couple
other names. Okay, okay, LaMelo ball your favorite.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And you're asking me of all people. Uh no, no,
I think pat Riley would go absolutely bananas after the
first couple of practices.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
I just for what the heat can give up. If
you can get LaMelo ball, I'm not gonna lie be
tempted because they just can't give up a ton.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Perhaps that's the place for LaMelo to iron out his
poor habits. I'll get Miami. That's the well, not the city.
I meant the organization. But you raise a fair point.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
What about we'll go to the other end of this
because we just talked about those two players. Not an
instinctive fit, but again, probably doesn't cost you everything. Zion Williamson.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Okay, now we're talking. That's fun. Now, now we're now
we're into this might actually be fun territory.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Hold on, if you don't think LaMelo ball is the
answer for a team or you have, that's fine. You
can't tell me LaMelo ball man Outebayo wouldn't make for
fun basketball. I refuse, I don't.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
We've been through this several times, you and I I
do not find LaMelo ball entertaining in the slightest I
am finding infuriatingly frustrating.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
We got we got aggregated on Twitter the other day
from that cons I don't know if you saw it,
and it was I saw. The response is they clearly
had no idea the tenor of the conversation because they
were saying we were both wrong and we were arguing
like there was one of two answers and we were
arguing in opposite side to them.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
And so it was no. I left to that a
great deal. I actually forgot to share it with you
because I did see it. But no, yeah, people are
are weird.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Look, oh, I have no getting aggregated.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I find oh no, no me neither sion when healthy, at
least when I'm saying fun, I do mean like in
terms of the production, right, Like when he's healthy, he's
he's right up there, like he's up there among the best,
Like he is so highly influential, He's gotten better as
a rebounder, he's gotten better defender. It's all about the
lack of availability. And you can say the same about
(13:49):
LaMelo too, Like both those guys are like tremendously unavailable.
But I do think Sion provides the higher ceiling, the
lamello and significantly so uh just off the impact there.
That would be fun because he would actually have that
type of center. Like remember I've said this a couple
of times where I thought the Pelicans should have gone
(14:11):
out in their way to find a way to get
killer Ware because I think that's the player you need
to put alongside Scion. Well, Kililware is in Miami. And
you know who's also is bam Adebayo Bamada. Bio's also
begins to stretch the floor. He's also a law threat.
He's also a defender rebounder. Now you have two guys
who are like Taylor made to be alongside Zion.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
My guess is, and maybe the Pelicans feel differently with
Eves Mesi being there. But if you're not trading Tyler Hero,
I think khalil Ware is certainly in the Zion Williams.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
That's fair, Okay, I can buy that. I can accept that.
But they as long as they still have Bam, I'll
live with it. I still love the idea of Kittill
where alongside Zion though, but like, yeah, it's Bam is better.
I get that if you run that well, like, let's
run that back by the way, if they offer one
of the picks instead of killerware, so.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
You're like you're thinking new or there's just gonna dump
Zion for a first round pick and Andrew Wiggins and
Kyle Anderson.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Maybe two picks they can offer two, right.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I mean, if if it's just the picks and then money,
sign me.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Up, right. I mean, I don't know, I don't I
don't think anybody really knows what Scion's value is right now,
especially now that Joe Dumars is leading the whole thing there.
We we have no idea, Like the Pelicans have just
turned everything inside out. Now they're making evaluations their own
evaluations of where they stamp with certain players. Like we
(15:33):
sort of had an idea of how David Griffin thought
of Sion for a long time, like he wasn't keen
on trading him, he was buying into the upside. It's
Joe dumar is doing that same thing. We have no idea,
like there might be an organizational shift where they are thinking, no,
you know what, like science not available, we don't think
highly of him. Let's just get out of that whole
situation where you know you could look at two picks
(15:56):
from Miami, where David Griffin would probably, you know, tell them,
tell my amage to shove it. Joe Tumors might be
telling them, tell me more.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, that was the Remember the initial reporting was in
that since moved back. I want to make it clear
that part of Joe the stipulation was Jojiymores needed to
move on for Zion Williamson, which is just I think
that's a dumb stipulation because his contract just giving the
number of outs is not toxic. And by the way,
you think the Heat would be in there trying to
renegotiate the weight limit protection where I think now he
(16:27):
needs to be less than two ninety five he're and
be like, you need to be less than two seventy
five or something. They would definitely try and do that.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So it's Winny, Yeah, oh my god, look it's it's
it's the heat, right, Heat culture. No, but that would
be fun, Like that's probably the one name where I
can talk myself into all right, let's let's try to
keep this going in some capacity.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
The good this is I'm not endorsing any of these,
I'm just trying to make us think I have a
couple other names. Okay, Kevin Durant.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
He's oh again, that's he'd be in that trade.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It's the picks and it's uh, it's salary, like you're
keeping Hero and Bam and where.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Look when you're trading draft picks for a guy who's
like that old, it's like you have like you have
to put yourself in a situation where you can win
a championship. I don't think you do that with DuRane necessarily,
as much as I love him.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
That's that's probably the most of all the names we mentioned, though,
that would be the most instinctual trio, right with Tyler,
HEROKD and Bam.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Right, yeah, yeah, Because look, I still subscribe to the
idea that if you want to run with like the
three stars setup, it is ultimately the best to have
like a main guard, a main wing, and a main big.
So yes, absolutely that would work.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
What about Ja Morant?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
No, no, thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I figure that was gonna be a quick note. Now
this is kind of on the smaller side, but again,
it enables you to keep a lot of your roster intact.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Kobe White, Yeah, yeah, absolutely immediately, because again, you the
salary alone is so easy to overcome from one year
and for one that's the thing. And because it's one year,
the Bulls can't even make like first and foremost they're
shitty negotiators, but they can't even make the argument that
they're going to have him, you know, for longer than
(18:25):
that one year. The Bulls should have traded them at
the trade deadline. They did not. So now you're left
in that situation where you're going to the summer, if
you're fielding offers from White, Everyone's going to say, well,
he's not locked up for a long time, and we
have to go into the same situation as you where
we can't offer him an extension because the one and
(18:46):
extension limit exists. All right. That lowers the price tag.
I'm sorry, but it just does. That's a name where
Miami can actually whether they rebuild or retool or not
or stay the course, they can still go get his ass,
would you do.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Let's just say no picks are involved. It's just a
matter of matching the money because they want to get
out of this contract. Do you see where I'm going
with this?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Not sure yet?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
No, Well, George, I'm just I don't even know. Maybe
the Sixers say no, but as an exercise. You're just
giving up. You're sending out contracts to make the money work,
roping in whatever other teams you need. No, I would
do it. You're out of your mind. Why no picks?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Well, like, okay, so no picks and I still get
to overpay him for the next four years. Lucky me
for three years three Sorry I corrected myself, sir.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Hold on, hold on, and two of those are important
to be semi competitive. But I guess you if you
want to do a one year tank, sure, but at
least twenty twenty seven, you need to be as good
as possible right now because your pick is headed out
so like and Paul George, he didn't ruin the Sixers
tank this year. He always misses some games. So if
you want to do the one year tank and run
it back with you know, age forty five, Paul George
(20:08):
in twenty twenty six and that top end draft pick, if.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
You don't realize that Paul George is turning thirty five
in like three days, right right.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Here's my thing. If the if Philly just decided they
don't want that contract and they're willing to take Terry
Rose year plus whatever money, like maybe it's Terry Rozier
and Andrew Wiggins. I might consider it.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Of course. I mean, look, yeah, if you're if you're Miami,
I wouldn't consider it. If look, of course you as
the Sixers. If that's what it takes to get off
that horrible.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
From Miami's perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Wheah, I know, but like that's that's such a win
for Philly. It's insane.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Andrew Wiggins could deftically have an extra year left on
this deal. So you're saying you'd rather just be out
of the Paul George business. You're so out on Paul George.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah? Absolutely? Did you have you seen this guy this
year and you expect him to get better? He's the
injury history.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
There's a higher baseline. It's not that I expect Paul
George to go to Miami and have a career year.
There's a much higher baseline than what he's working off
of from this season.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Are we sure there still is?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yes? I think Paul George is one of the most
plug and play stars in the league.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Great that worked out so well for Philly In the
forty one games he played this year.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
How many games? First of all, how many games would
he have played in if Philly actually had anything to
play for.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That is a fair quare Still the production, the production
that will drop like a rock.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I think if you're going to focus on why Miami
shouldn't do that, I think the plot is being missed
if you don't say, well, we want a primary advantage creator.
He comes in and we still favor Tyler Hero in
that instance, and you're trying to get around that.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
For the most part, I understand you. No, I understand
your argument. Just fine. It's the contract that scares the
Bejesus out of me.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I think if it's cast me because Terry Rozier doesn't
even look like he should be an NBA player, and
maybe he comes back and he is great, but if
it's costing me that and then Andrew Wiggins took like
as two years left on his deal and just you
can't unless unless he's gonna turn the clock back to
twenty twenty two, which is the anomaly on his career resume.
You're kind of can look at it and talking to
yourself in all right, well, it's really like two years
(22:21):
of Paul George like being extra on the wait.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think Andrew Wiggins right now is the better basketball player.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Oh sorry, I can't.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And oh oh we had snop Dan show up there. Okay,
fair enough to me.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
If you're saying Andrew Wiggins had the better season, I
don't think that's arguable.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I think you're right, right right.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
If you're asking me who, I would just rather have
an a vacuum next year if you want to get
I guess Okay, Andrew Wiggins is making what twenty million
dollars less than Paul George or whatever. That's probably fair.
But as players in a vacuum next season, I would
say that I want Paul George on my team rather
than Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I'm I'm I'm Wickins. I I don't because again I'm
also baking in availability. That's part of it.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
I g what is what is the argument? So your
arg so then what is the argument for Andrew Wickins
is the better basketball player? Just that your so?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Okay, So, first and foremost, the production level I think
is is comparable. First and foremost, I think Wiggins because
he's younger. I think he's found his game at a
much higher since this year than we've seen before. I
think we can throw last year and parts of the
year before out because there was a lot of personal
things that went on and people were way too quick
(23:37):
to kind of rule him out, like saying, oh, he
can't play anymore, he's peaked. Whatever we were seeing this year,
that was a bunch of bullshit. Okay, I think there's
a very good two way player in there. I think
his three point shot has gotten better. Yes, is he
look Is Paul George a better primary creator? Absolutely, I'm
not gonna dispute that. But there is a time when
(24:01):
someone reaches an age and they have that one year
drop off, I think, and that's like the new norm.
I'm not sure we can rule that out that that
was the year for PEG this year. Like I'm also
not saying it was with absolute certainty. There's a world
where in you could absolutely be right. But if this
was the drop off year and that trend is only
going to continue, like he's only getting gonna get worse,
(24:24):
I will not in any way sit here and argue
on behalf of him over Wickens.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Sorry, I think I would feel very uneasy about the
Paul George creation aspect, like I said before, because if
he comes in, I think you still look at Tyler
Hero as your best advantage creator, and that's somewhat problematic.
But the balance of one three five, I guess I'm
looking at it as if you're trying to swing for
the fences as Miami rather than rebuild. I think if
your highest end outcome is glitzier, if you have Paul
(24:53):
George versus if you have Andrew Wigins, you can talk
about the likelihood of reaching that highest end outcome. Yeah,
let's say I'll frame it this way. Let's say you're
seventy percent likely to reach your highest end outcome with
Andrew Wiggins and twenty percent likely to reach your highest
end outcome with Paul George. The highest end outcome that
you have a twenty percent chance at, I just think
is going to be so much higher than that Andrew
Wiggins highest end outcome that I'm just going to fill
(25:16):
your nice because otherwise you're just kind of spinning your
wheels in This is exact Miami team with some fuzzing
and fiddling on the margins. How good are they next year?
Can they get to forty five wins? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
No particularly, But I don't necessarily think they're going to
be a lot better with Paul George. But what I
do understand you're saying is that you want to swing,
you want to swing big, and you want to take
some risk. I appreciate the balsiness of that. I do,
but the contract loan is toxic and I don't think,
like I said, necessarily that I think he's even an
(25:48):
upgrade for intro Wiggins, although I do think he plucks
more holes that I will give you. But then there's
the availability or lack thereof, like it's just it's the
combined package of question marks.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
How many shamos does Andrew Wiggins' podcast too more?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
This is all said, God be there, you gotta be
there that Daniel we want the argument.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
This is all to say I wouldn't trade for Paul
George ifouls Miami. So we're arguing kind of over the
same thing. I have a couple other names. Again, I
actually don't think I might endorse one of these, and
I think his trade value would have had to drop
for the Heat to be able to get him. Larry Marketen.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
He is not off.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
You probably have to go to Utah and say, maybe
you could get away with not giving Khalil Whare But
there's a chance that it's probably both those picks swaps
or is it khalil ware a picks while it's it's
something like that.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
So it depends on what you think. So this is
actually interesting. Do you subscribe to the idea that Laurie
Marketing can be a good first option?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
It's so would you have could so ask another question,
would you have considered him? He was like a primary
option as a play finisher? And I think he can
do that.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
That is a good answer because that is exactly what
he is. So you were talking about play creation, right,
how does Lauri Markinen solve that? Well, especially his salary.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I think he makes it the jobs easier on Tyler
Hero and bam Adebayo to where it's the advantage creation
you get from them, which you want higher end of
it because there's a higher threat level on the court
who can give you a little bit of self creation,
but it's just a threat from anywhere. And is this
like he's I can't remember who said this, so I
apologize and I don't. This isn't like a perfect comparison,
but they compared Larry Market into a seven foot Clay Thompson.
(27:40):
It's just like that's if you put that, I think
by virtue putting that on your roster. It increases the
value of whatever self creation and facilitations already.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
There, right, Can I just can I just pickyback off
of that one and give Ricky O'Donnell some love on
this because even when market was in an Arizona, Ricky
O'Donnell back then, so way back in seven twenty seventeen
basically said he's a seven foot shooting guard. And I
think that is probably the best description of Lauri marketing
(28:10):
we've ever seen, and no one's really picked up on it,
and that is exactly what his career has been. I
love him as a play finisher. What I would worry
about if I'm Miami, presumably I'm staying like I'm keeping
this train moving because I want to make some noise
in the playoffs. I wonder if, even if they do
well in the regular season with him as a play finisher,
(28:31):
making life easier on both BAM and Hero, is, is
that going to be taken away in the playoffs? Because
I would imagine.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
So, I'm probably with you just because it would take
most of your assets and I don't think the payoff
is there, right, Would you rather give up your assets
to get Larry markin or just give up money to
get Paul George like contracts to get Paul George.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Uh, I'm just gonna instead jump off of the highest
cliff I find.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, I so we have to mention this name. We
mentioned it when we did our bucks. Where are they
going from here? Thing? You would do it, but we're
in agreement. I don't see the path to the heat
keeping Bam out of bio and getting honest attend tokopo's
non no correct.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Nope, nope, let's go back to a team.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Excuse me? Maybe wanted to get off a contract again.
I don't see it all right, Joel embiid.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Oh see that's at least more intriguing the PG. However,
what like Embat himself is like, no, I'm not going
to play in back to backs anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Like it's.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
You know what, I want to get there, but I
can't Dan like I want to get there. I just no,
I can't. It's too again. I'm I'm very risk averse.
You know this of me. I can't. I can't say
that leave, I can't commit. All right, I'll be I'll
be fleeing the altar if I'm standing there. I won't
do it. No, the contract cool stuff is too much.
(30:01):
The injury patterns are too much. I can't. Sorry, even if.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
It was just money in one first round pick and
my money, I do contracts. For anyone who's thinking that,
I'm like, I'm not Babe ruthing this or like giving
up just cash for right, So.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
It's like weekends Duncan Robinson and.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Terry Rode whatever the money whatever contract or bam.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Bam at the four would be fun next to bead.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I think that, by the way, I think the Sixers
only consider something like that if they win the lottery
and it's let's reorient around Cooper flag and exactly we're
done here.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I might get you could talk me into that, but
like the oh the potential downside again it's catastrophic.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Oh yeah, speaking of catastrophic, Oh no, you're coming with now,
this is another one. We don't want to give up
assets to do this, so we're just trying to get
better on the court.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Bradley Beal, I actually don't hate that as much.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Again I do so here we just can't hit all
over Paul George, Like Bradley Beal.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Here's the thing. Here's the thing I don't hate Bradley
Peel on a vacuum going there. However, because Tyler Hero
is there and I value him obviously significantly more than
Bradley Beale, I don't buy into it because again we've
seen him now he couldn't like the position to overlap.
I think it's I think it's real with the shooting
guards specifically, they have such a hard time finding their spots.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I think if you could get some of because I
viewed Devin Booker as one of the most underrated passers
in the league, but we've seen he has his limitations.
He kind of needs a decision making big is what
he's best next to, not necessarily these rim like flat
out rim runners in Miami's case though, and this was
similar with Devin Booker. So I think you would still
probably want like a Floord, like would Chris Paul come
in and make whatever money and you're playing a little smaller.
(32:04):
Tyler Hero can be so good off the ball that
it's just like I think it would feel less rid.
Not that Devin Booker can't be, but when you also
have Kevin Durant in the fold and like Bam plays
just a different position and it's used to being a
play finisher big when he's not having the ball. I
think you can make it work. And again, I think
it's all about the cost perspective of if you're just
giving up contracts to make this work like the Sons
(32:26):
are doing it for Terry Rozier and I take your pick.
You want Dougan Robinson or would you prefer to just
give up Andrew Wiggins in that?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Like, I'm still saying no, because I still like, despite
what you just outlined, I'm not necessarily buying into, you know,
real in a high volume ball handling capability like I
like him. I thought, I think it's interesting at the least.
I think that's that's a situation where you know, the
system would at least give him a chance to return
(32:55):
to some level of what he used to be, but
just not specifically alongside Tally Hero.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Uh So I wouldn't do it, Okay, I think you're
not an catch an argument for me on that I
have at least two more names.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I feel like you keep coming up with two more names.
It's great.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Some of them are. Some of them are just springing
to me. I don't I'm just saying because I don't
know what's gonna happen here. We already know this player
wants to re evaluate his future, right domas a bonus.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, I had a feeling you to go there.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Now, I think I want to say this. I'm not
necessarily in favor of it, but I think people would
hona actually assume no, that would shrink the floor. And
like Doma's been shooting the three pretty well the past
couple of seasons, we know Bam can give a little stretch.
I don't think defenses would much care, but it'd be
would we have ever seen It's kind of like I
don't think that people are talking about have we ever
seen as much just like transcendent playmaking on one team
(33:49):
as you could get in Lebron and Luca? Have we
ever seen two playmaking bigs on the same team like
Doms and Bam And.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
And also you know what be funny is both of
them are sort of reluctant score like they can do
so much more offensively than what they're doing. Like heat
fans would lose their marbles after the first two months
because both those guys are gonna be like looking at
each other, They're gonna be averaging like a modest seventeen
per game, and everyone is just looking at it like,
oh nuts, one of you, Like one of you should
(34:17):
average twenty five because both have the capability of doing so.
But like, at least BAM represents a much more intriguing
big man pairing option for some bonus then and a
lot of other alternatives around the league, like that might
be the guy to pair up front with the bonus
of anything.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I don't think. I mean, i'd be interest see how
Spoe uses them together, but I don't think I could
get on board with that. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
It's gonna be difficult, Like spacing is real, I feel
like that should be so.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
The other one I have. I think it's an ultra
long shot. But let's say this team wants to get cheaper.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
If the rest of this list hasn't been long shots, yeah,
go ahead.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I'm just trying. I'm trying to have it. I'm not
advocating for any of these. I'm just trying to have
a discussion, and you're getting you're you're assigning I don't
know whatever to be here, sounding like.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Someone on Fox News. I'm just asking questions. I'm just.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I'm just trying to see your both sides wrong with that. Look,
this team want let's say this. I'm gonna lay the
ground here. This team wants to get cheaper. And what
you're looking at probably is like, okay, they're going to
get some smaller contracts in return. There's other teams that
are being roped into offset the cost you're probably commanding.
The two first round picks and Khalil laware in addition
(35:38):
to salary at minimum.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Jailing Brown, all right, yeah, yeah, you found an exception.
All right, you found a name that's interesting. He's the
primary win So.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Shocked I found it. I just named half the league.
I was bound to find a few.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, well you finally hit right, Okay, because you have
the you have the guard set up in Hero, you
have Bam. Now you have like the primary wing who
can focus a lot on scoring and the two way play.
So look, I'm I'm more interested in that. But I
do have a question, and I think it's I think
(36:17):
it's fair to ask. I think a lot of people
are probably glossing it over because you know, it's the Celtics.
Do they really take the regular season all that serious
and whatnot?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
But like.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
It feels like Jalen did not have a great scoring
year this year, and I feel I feel like last
year also wasn't, at least in some parts. He turned
it on in the playoffs, but like, I don't know
if he's the same guy that he used to be
a couple of years ago, Like can he regain that
(36:50):
high level scoring punch you think I think he needs to?
In my Yami specifically, I.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Just wonder, because you did mention last year like this
year how to be felt like it was injury related.
He was dealing with knee stuff for months.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah he was.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I just I think I would do it if I'm Miami,
and I probably woudn't even think twice. I'm more so
thinking is that enough value if if Boston was to
go look to move Jalen Brown? And I guess what
you're trying to accomplish is we want to get someone
like a young guy or a chief guy who's playable,
another cheap mid end contract. I'm assuming Andrew Wiggins is
maybe part of that, and then some draft equity just
(37:28):
checks those boxes. But is there a team that like
Khalil where Andrew Wiggins and two picks like that's But
I'm also like, well, would other teams just give up
more for Jalen Brown.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
See that's the thing I don't know. I mean the
contract that's also attached to Brown. I actually have no
idea how that's viewed around the league.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Especially now to where I think, and I actually think
you mentioned Jaron Jackson Junior, not on this podcast, but
another one we did. He might end up being like
a good case study in will how teams to give
out a supermax to these non top ten guys when
they're eligible.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Like even if you already read my Memphis piece, because
you know what I mentioned in there. I mentioned in
there that I think we might reaching that point where
we shouldn't dismiss the one hundred and forty percent extension
limit out of hand with him.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, I mean that feels almost extreme, but I guess
based off some of the moments we saw against the
like thunder Serial was a game one, he had more
turnovers than defensive rebounds, right, so eight.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
That would start, by the way, the veteran extensional started
forty two point seven million.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Maybe that's the right number, but I meant also, I
meant more so because I'm looking at it at Jaylen Brown,
just how his contract would be viewed is just like
if if Jared Jackson is Jafon jecktion're gonna be the
first test of not a top fifteen player. And it's
not even just about giving him the supermax, but like
you could technically give him less than the supermax. We
saw that happen with Rudy Gobert in Utah, right, But
(38:53):
is he the like kind of the first inflection point
of no, Like, we're not even doing that for these
guys unless they're just auto top ten may be like
auto top fifteen players, which Jalen Brown in any given
season sure as just an auto no. And so now
wondering as teams are structuring their books, how do you
view that contract, and it's it's a I think Jallen
(39:14):
Brown's fantastic player. He can make all NBA in a
given season, and it has to be fair. But that's
why I think, well, then maybe Miami if he was
available in Boston new ownership maybe looking to cut costs
make the rest of the core more sustainable. But then
the other part of me does think that there would
be more palatable offers on the table if I was
to guess what right for Jaalen you mean Jalen Brown.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Okay, can I throw out another name then if you're
out of the contract, Jaron Jackson Jr.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, might be the right team if they're pivoting on,
Like if Memphis is pivoting off both him and rand
which I wouldn't be against honestly, might be the right
to stop fouling and actually grab a freaking rebound.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Oh he's not gonna I think we've the rebounding and
the this is not gonna happen, I mean, And also,
is he giving you enough of a scoring punch? He's
a lot better as a scorer, but is it enough
because this is costing you. It's the two first and
khalil ware like that is plus other stuffy right of course.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
But to underline your scoring point, I mean, this dude
averages almost twenty seven per game per thirty six like this,
this is the ball he was.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
He was in the ninetieth percentile of self created shot
making efficiency this year. That's not that's a that's a
big deal for sure.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yep. It's it's a good one. It's a good It's
like again, it comes down to where are we with
him and in a playoff context, because as I was
writing that piece. Whatever he does in the regular season,
whatever however impressive it is, he sort of drops the
(40:56):
ball in the playoffs. He was very Julius Rantle with
the Knicks playoff experience. And if you're the heat, I
presume you're looking ahead and into a playoff series and
not just how you fare in the regular season. So
like that would concern me. I understand it's just the
twenty seven game sample size for the playoffs with JJJ,
(41:17):
I get that, like perhaps the change of scenery something
else might.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
And also if you're it's different for any team that's
acquiring him because you have to worry about free agency,
but it's not, Oh, you don't have to worry about,
oh do we pay him the super max? Are close
to it? Because that's just immediately off the table.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Then right, I'm not opposed to it, I will say.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Per Jalen, even on his current deal for its yes, I.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Think the baseline there is higher. And I again, it's
the thing with me when I look at these guys
who struggle in the postseason but dominate more or less
in the regular season, it just like it does affect
how I value them money wise, And like in terms
of what I would be willing to relinquish from in
a trade market. For example, I'm like some people might
(42:01):
be ready to just go get Jaron Jackson Junior for
basically whatever. I'm not there.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Do you have any other names that you'd like? Did
I throw out enough names for you, many of which
were off rip They weren't all in my notes.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
I appreciate the creativity, sir. I really do very glad
you didn't bring up Kyle Kuzma, because I would have
just left.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
No.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
So I think we're well, let me think, I think you.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I didn't expect you to go there right off the bat,
but I do think that if you're the heat, if
we were taking the cold, distant perspective, which that's kind
of our job to do, but we also try and
live in the reality of these teams. Tearing it down
is a pretty palatable course, but just giving their aversion
to rebuilding, and look, you can argue about the not
you specifically, you can argue about that pick headed Charlotte
(42:50):
in twenty seven. That's not enough of a debt, like
an impediment to me to say rebuilding shouldn't be on
the table. And if you think you can, for some
reason rebuild around Bam and Tyler Hero. Sure, but I
think the exercise that we just went through showed you
how difficult that would be.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yes, it's fun. There is one name that would just
make me reconsider everything. But He's he's gonna take so
much more to get to get that's book right, like
you would have to. It's Hero would have to be involved,
Like it would almost be like a major retooling process
you would do.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
You think it would become so if you went I
don't know why Houston would then do this if they
know that Miami is getting booked, but it's hey, can
we get any of those Phoenix suns picks and then
you include that in a package with Phoenix might appreciate that.
I mean, if you're training book they might even care
about getting Hero. So she's, oh, you're gonna have Like
maybe maybe Houston wants Hero because he costs less than
getting Booker.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah, that's fun.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
He's better. I think people they'll be pushed back from Rockston.
Tyler heroes better than Jalen Green on offense, right, just
the playmaking in general, yep.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, Offensively speaking, yes, and speaking off of this season, Yes,
but Devin Pooker is the one guy for me, ironically
also for Houston, who you just outlined there.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Like well, that's my point is like, well I wouldn't.
I'm not helping another.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Right, No, no exactly, But it's kind of funny that
I think the book specifically is a guy who can
go in and solve a lot of these teams that
are sort of not stuck. I don't want to say stuck,
but like where you can see there's there's ample reason
to continue this this path that we're on by getting
(44:27):
book because he can sort of elevate you, sorry, to
a different tier. So but the thing, rightfully, so Feoedix
should be asking for the moon.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, and the heat don't have the moon. They don't
even have they don't have the moon, they don't even
have the atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I don't think to get into that, correct, And that's
where they're in. Life's the issue.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Can you tell our listeners where they can find you
and all the work that you do, mister more Jensen.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yes, sir, you can find my work over at bluse
guy at m s J NBA where I link out
to Danish pop. It's the NBA pod Yahoo stuff, Forbes stuff,
occasionally sports illustrated stuff. I need to go back and
write something sometimes sometimes soon we need to go right
and go back and right there. It's been a while,
so you can find all my work over at Blue Sky.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Until next time, and as always, wet the shout out
to the one, the only, the future member of the
Miami Heat, mister Paul George
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