The 2025 NBA Trade Deadline, 1 Month Later - Featuring Dan Favale - The NBA Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
What is up, Fellowsiko's I am Dana Valley coming at
you with mister Mort Jensen of the NBA Podcast, fame
of Yahoo Sports, fame of Forbes, fame of just general
celebrity internet influencer has a million plus subscribers on OnlyFans.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yes, at least, yeah, at least yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
You know what I'm not. I should have refreshed your page.
I'm not up to date on the and I know
you have the different tiers in bands, so that makes
it tough to see how many of you have Mort.
Anyone who knows Now it's crossover week here at the
NBA Podcast in Hardwood Knock's always a fun time of
the month, especially for Grant, who's like, I don't have
to talk to Dan as much does. He gets so
excited I I'm like, you want to join and he's like, oh,

(01:01):
are you gonna be on it? I was like, well yeah,
and he was like no, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah. Well, what he doesn't tell you is she actually
pays me to take these.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
I'm clearly paying him too much. Then if he has
that type of work, excuse me, we're clearly making too
much off of this podcast. If his half has the
disposable income necessary to write before you. We're gonna talk
about though, the NBA trade deadline one month ish, since
we're a couple days past the one month mark later,
which just a good time to do it. One month.
See how these bigger names or some of the more

(01:32):
consequential deals, how those are panning out. Sorry to New
Orleans Pelicans and Raptors fans like, there just hasn't been
enough fallout from your deal. Had brandon Ingram done more
than sign an extension, maybe we would have tackled both
ends of the spectrum. But before we get started, the
most important question we will ask on this podcast, how
the heck are you doing more?

Speaker 2 (01:50):
I'm doing well. I'm doing well. There's I was just
told that we're finally going ahead suits redoing my office
a little bit, because it's been like every time I
on webcam here, I feel bad because my entire situation
behind me looks like I'm a hermit, which just like
puts everything into one place and never does anything with it.

(02:11):
But we've had so much issue just getting stuff into
our place and buying the right cupboards and whatnot. Things
are looking up, Dan, So within the month we're finally
going to get a hang of my office to the
point where I can actually feel Presentablench look forward to me.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Does the finished product is just going to be wall
floor to ceiling mirrors and then you will podcast in
the nude? Is that like the.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
It's gonna be the very very exciting backdrop of a
major closet, which I've had endless fights with my wife about.
But obviously she prevailed that's fine. I say, it's fine.
It's not, but it is fine for the sake of
my marriage. So I'll just have to accept that the
backdrop is going to be a very boring ass closet

(02:54):
and if it excites you, yes, I will take my
damn shirt off.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
It's fine, you're fighting with your wife. I fought with
my wife over the weekend because I said, after Nuggets
thunder on Sunday, I said to her, I was like,
why don't you love me the way with the intensity
that Nuggets fans go to bat for Nicole Jokic for MVP. Right.
She looked at me this like look of disgust washed
over her face, and she took that to me that
I was going to vote for SGA. And now we're

(03:19):
in the middle of divorce proceedings. There was just an
innocuous question, I haven't made my MVP pick yet. I
thought that was I thought it was a totally over
the top response to a valid inquiry. But here we are.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
That's fair. That's fair. Look, look, that is the dream.
Maybe those that question should actually could be included when
you give your vows, like or when the minister is
like setting everything up like chaer is this person as
much as demmer Nuggets fans like their affection to Nicola
Jokic And if the answer is like, maybe it's not
good enough. Sorry, you know what.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
To be fair, this isn't a no I saw nugget.
I think because they lost, like the team lost. This
is just like I want someone to defend me with
the intensity that fan and like their MVP pick. That's
basically what this isn't anough mean, this isn't Nuggets. I've
seen some pretty like like over the top responses from
Thunder fans and media as well. So I just want
I just want someone to care for me and defend

(04:11):
for me like that.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
It's nice, Like you gotta feel cozy, I think if
you have someone fighting for you like that and just
give you that amount of love too. Like you, you,
you'd be bulletproof mentally, bulletproof going through the day.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
There's no natural segue to do this, but let's dig
into someone like the trade deadline fallout from this uh
and go check out more Moret's piece on Somebody. He
talks a lot about a lot of these deals a
month later on Yahoo Sports, so go check that out
as well. But we will begin right the hell now

(04:49):
where is the labels? We begin with the Atlanta Hawks
key additions, Karris Lavert, Terrence Man, George Yang, key subtractions,
Boute Dog Bardanovic, and DeAndre Hunter. I don't know how

(05:10):
you felt about what they did at the trade deadline
Moret in the moment, or if there's one player in particular,
I think Lavert's the easy one here to focus on.
I was not kind to them at the trade deadline.
How are you feeling about them, about any of these
specific guys one month?

Speaker 2 (05:24):
One month later, I'm feeling better because, like you, I
was not a happy camper. I thought it was I
thought it was a weird, weird, two weird trades, and
I thought, in particular the Yancer Hunter trade was puzzling
because it seemed like something like I'm still not in
love with it. I'm still not to the point where

(05:45):
I'm like, oh, great trade for Atlanta. Like I'm at
that point where, Okay, Karas Lavert and George and Yang
at least is giving you the amount of production and
efficiency right now that makes you kind of okay ish
with it for now. It could get ugly down the line, though,
so I'm not necessarily ready to say, oh, this was

(06:06):
brilliant for Atlanta, But at least I'll give them this.
It's working out right now in terms of their individual
production at the very least.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, I mean Georgia Yang's been shooting the hell out
of the ball and absurd volume from from three. I
think Karris Lavert it's only been at like thirty percent
on catching shoot threes, but shooting over fifty percent on drives.
I like the I think you can see the outlines
of what they're trying to build here more so than
I did in the moment, And like getting rid of
Hunter and Bogdanovic, I do think it's cleared the way

(06:36):
of you even more minutes for Reeseche, who's been shooting
really well from three since the trade, deadline. I just
I don't know, like like even some of the stuff
you like, like they've gotten some really good run out
of the Trey dice in Lavert Nyango Coongo lineups, but
they don't feel and I know Jalen Johnson's not there,
but like they don't feel big enough or dynamic enough
on the front court just now. But I think if

(06:58):
you squint you can kind of see right they're trying
to surround Trey with a bunch of defensive optionality, which
I guess would make a ton of sense, and then
the key there is kind of finding the secondary ball
handler that can fit within that. Maybe LeVert is that
the offense is in the eighty second percent tile when
he plays without Trey right now, which is a pretty
big deal getting smoked on defense during those minutes. Though

(07:21):
I don't know that. I guess I feel a little
bit better about it. Now they have a ton of
room under the tax leading into next season forty plus
million dollars they have to resign. Their only key free
agent is LeVert, so that money is you know, they'll
have plenty of wiggle room, I guess is the point.
And if you're exchanging like the Hunter and Bogdanovich money
from next year. Maybe that factors into this. It just

(07:43):
sort of I don't like there, even since the trademark,
their tenth in offense and twenty fifth in defense, and
like three point shooting has been floating a lot of
that offensive structure. This is just a team where like
I said, if I squint, I think I see the
outlines of what they're doing, but I don't really still
understand direction full fold, and I think the offseason will
probably be pretty telltale of that. Not the least of which,

(08:06):
as both you and I have mentioned a bunch of
times before, Trey Young just has the one more guaranteed
year left on his deal before free agency, and so
if they think that they're going to keep him, and
that's what I don't know if you read on the
trade deadline, was this or even just looking at the
setup of their roster with you know, prioritizing someone like
man you have Dyson Daniels, Reesa scha It does seem
to me that they're really trying to make it work

(08:29):
with Trey Young long term. Do you do you have
that type of read from them at all, Like from
the trade deadline.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
I think I'm not gonna say that I think he's
necessarily the first priority, like with a bullet, but I
think he is in their long term plans. It felt
like to me this was a move that kind of
was tailored around Jalen Johnson and Risa Scha moving forward,
because I do think those are their two most bendable

(08:58):
building blocks, like you can slide them up and down
multiple positions. You can't do that with Trey. So I
think what they're trying to do is basically say, Okay,
let's let's make sure that we have guys who can
produce at a certain level around these very these two
very all around level guys in Rishache and Jalen Johnson,
and then we have Trey Young as are not quite

(09:21):
you know, super elite quarterback, but like a quarterback who's
good enough to get you into the playoffs, and let's
let's just hope basically that the further evolution of Dyson Daniels,
the further evolution of Unego Kongbu, of Rishache himself, of
that matter, that's enough to take you up a level.
I think those are some of their thoughts that they've had.

(09:41):
We'll see, though, I still think they have to go
into the summer with a very open mindset in terms
of making roster alterations. I don't think they're done whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
If you were to keep quickly before we move on,
if they want to keep, say the bones of this
team in place, what do you think ends up being
their bigger need. Is it to kind of get like
a more of a front court upgrade, probably at the
five over in a Kungo Cappella type setup, or is
it would it be like the secondary playmaker route who
doesn't compromise your defense, which LeVert is like he filled

(10:13):
that role in Cleveland. He can't, so in theory he
could be able to fill that role, but he is
a free agent. What do you think becomes more pressing
for them?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
To me, it's it's you said it the center spot.
So like I I have admitted this for the past
couple of months because I was one of those guys
who spent two years banging the drum that hey On
Yecho Kungou was just too productive, too good to not start.
But at the end of the day, he's six 's eight,
and the league has pivoted back towards size. Capella is

(10:43):
getting older, He's he's very limited in what he can do.
You know, he's very he's a strong defender, he's a
good reboundery, he's a good rim runner. I'm not knocking that.
But outside of those three elements, there's not a lot
to you know, squeeze out additionally from from Capella at
this at this stage, so you're looking at given Okongo

(11:03):
a six to eight center more minutes, which kind of
negates the size advantage that you have in Johnson and Resche. Like,
if you want to be a big team, you also
need to make sure that you're big upfront. So I
think center is the most pressing issue for them. They
can find Karis Lavert types in free agency, like they
can go out and make those signings within like the

(11:28):
mL feels like I haven't. I have not yet looked
at their roster and like what they're projected to do
next year, like financially, if they can actually afford the
non tax emily, If they can, I think you can
find someone like him. You can try to resign him
at a lower deal. The center position to me is
the biggest one. Now how to upgrade that one is

(11:48):
also a big question mark to me, because do you
have the assets to actually go out and find someone
I don't know the entry to that.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
They probably could come together the assets. But it's also
so it's weird because you mentioned a kunglu like you're working,
you're trying to upgrade from what's a really good player.
It's just that defendally, I think that they have limitations
where it's you know, like use the a kungou Niang
minutes as an example here, like you're still not even
a league average defensive rebounding team during those stretches and
a lot of those minutes are coming with you mentioned

(12:18):
them Reesius say Dan Daniels, So you are getting good
positional size elsewhere and it's not enough to offset it.
And so I think I would be with you there,
especially because you say they could find Karros Lavert types.
They might just have Karros Lavert like yeah, coulcil Avert
money that they won't.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Sorry you cut you fell out a little bit at
the end. Were you asking me a question?

Speaker 1 (12:39):
No, it was just more rhetorical, like where you said
they can find Carouselvert LeVert type elsewhere, but it's they
have Carroslvert and who's gonna come in over the top
in free agency? And like give all this money to
Karris Lavert. Given that if they're not willing to pay
him non tax payer m l E money, then then
like we can have a different discussion and that would
lead to some you know, like more wholesale inquiries into
their direction. So with you that, I think it's the

(13:00):
front court. But it feels very weird to say because
a congu is so good and like he's held up
playing over thirty minutes per game since the trade deadline,
so expanding his role has been fine. But I do
think they're always going to be there's like kind of
a cap on their defense if if this is gonna
be your because even look, replace George and Yang with
Jalen Johnson, like you're gonna have a lot of the
same limitations because Jalen Johnson is not the greatest defender either.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Question before we move on, do you think there's a
world where in Kobe Buffkin comes in next year and
it's actually that Karislover type player.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
I don't know. I just we haven't seen enough of
him and so we need to stay healthy. And then
if you do have Trey Jung on your roster, like
what is going to be your stomach for development at
that level where it's okay, we have someone who's technically
two years into his career but hasn't played a ton
I like Kobe Buffkin coming out of the draft as
someone who like play will play hard defensively and kind

(13:55):
of be more of a steward on the offensive end,
not like a capslock playmaker, but maybe makes shots get
to the rim. But we just haven't we haven't seen that,
like with any emb ones of consistency at the NBA level.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, so only twenty seven games played over the course
of his career, but that that would that to me
would be like a major boon for them, like if
he comes in and gives you that off the bench hunch,
both in terms of like playmaking, scoring, defensive intensity, Like
if he comes in and it's actually like a six
man caliber player, and let's say he is that even
after you've re signed Lavert as well, all of a

(14:29):
sudden you have a trade piece. All of a sudden
you can make additional moves.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
And also just the the secondary playmaking stuff like if
you have enough spacing, Dyson Daniels can do some of that.
And then look, Jalon Johnson's just he's out for the year,
and there were some growing pins with his ball handling.
But they might just like he is their second best
like I would say playmaker or just you want to
put someone on the ball to either score or make decisions,
like he's their second best player at doing that right now,

(14:52):
even though he's not playing. Maybe Lavert has the edge
a little bit in that department, but you probably just say, well,
we'll piece meal together with buff Cam and Daniels and
like maybe research I can do more with that in
additional Avert and and Johnson. Next up on the docket
in the alphabet is Mort's Chicago Bulls. We assign possession
of the Chicago Bulls to Mort on this podcast all

(15:14):
the time. For anyone who's watching, he's he's flipping off
someone who's not me. I don't know who it's. They
must be off camera. Key additions more Kevin Herder, Zach Collins,
Trey Jones, key subtraction, Zack Lavine.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, well look, this was always a god nofl trade.
I understand why the Kings and Sons, Wow, the Spurs
obviously just the word in Chicago because they knew they
could dump those contracts. I will say this, Sack Collins
has actually played pretty decently. Kevin Herder as well, for
that matter, Like it hasn't been you know, Sacklovine level

(15:53):
production from any of them, but it's been you know,
Trey Jones has played probably to the extent that I expected,
because he's always been pretty solid. It's always low volume
with him, but he's perfectly capable of running the show.
Herder's playing off of everyone, like he's not hitting a
whole lot overall, but he is hitting the three ball. Finally,

(16:15):
Sack Collins is the big one for me. So I
wrote about this over at Forbes. Basically, the Bulls have
now been given somewhat fortunately a chance to do something
with that contract, which was otherwise going into the summer
as just like a big lumping nothing. Now you can
actually go into the summer and say, look, if you're

(16:36):
interested in a Sack Collins, we have some data on him.
Because he wasn't playing in San Antonio. The Spurs extended him,
and you kind of realized shortly after, like, oh, there's
actually no reason to do that because he doesn't fit
alongside Wemby. Now with Nikola Vucevich out, he's been given
a lot of minutes and he's producing at typical Sack
Collins fashion thirteen points almost nine rebounds. He's playing making

(17:00):
he's hitting the three ball, like you can actually go
out if you're the Bulls and shop him. Now, knowing
the Bulls, you'll probably do it too late and you'll
end up with the gruso. You know. Josh Ginty kind
of returned there. But at least it gives him some
optionality that I don't think they had before. So for
the Bulls is probably better than we thought. Still it
greaches all the same.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, I think Kevin heard herself, but he just has
such like low lows. Now he's only shooting thirty percent
on catching shoot threes. He's done a lot of his
damage efficiently off of pull ups, like thirty nine plus
percent there. Since the trade, Zach Collins has been weirdly okay,
Like you said, they've won his minutes, shooting like seventy
five percent at the rim, fifty six percent on twos
that are in the paint but away from the restricted area.

(17:44):
I just I think I think with Herder people still
kind of undervalue like the ability to maybe reboot his
value if you want an expiring contract or even if
you're just trying to inte increase your flexibility moving forward,
it's not about like getting off of longer term, Like
you get Kevin Herder, who be a useful player for you,
and also the Bulls could probably use him if you're
just looking at like even if you're rebuilding, I think

(18:06):
the skill set that I would overpay the most or
assign the most veteran value to as part of a
rebuilding team is good shooters. And I think Kevin Herder
can still get there. To that point, I think I
look at their trade deadline, though less favorably than I
did in the moment, because the zach Lavine return was
the zach Lavine return. It just seems like he was
owed too much money and the way that the league

(18:27):
is and teams are reticent of the acquiring these big
contracts in the new Aprons era. But like, how is
that the only thing you did? And I like Matus
bussellis is playing a ton. I appreciate that. I think
Nikola Vucevic, like his minutes can be pro tank when
he's healthy. Yeah, my whole thing is just how is
that the only thing you did? In hindsight, it beats me.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
I am in full agreement with you. I mean, look
the fact that that the Crowning Return was getting their
twenty twenty five draft pick back when they could have
bought them out and make sure that they kept it regardless.
That to me is again it shows a front office
that is lacking in imagination.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
I think my only counter to that, but this would
still be on the front office, is if you kind
of look what's going on in the East, even if
they attempted to bottom out, they might just still fall
ask backwards into the play in tournament, and so having
control of that pick and shores they get to keep it.
At the same time, had this organization been run properly,
they never would have been in a situation where they,

(19:33):
let's say they overachieved. They wouldn't have Like they didn't
need to get to this point where we might win
too many games or stumble into the play in like
you could have made up rebuilding or tanking ground. However
you want to frame it earlier, which you should have.
So is there very quickly any of these players, I
guess it's Zach Collins of the three like you just
feel maybe a lot better about like with them since

(19:53):
the trade is that where you were basically.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Getting not for the bull No. I just think I
like the fact that they now have a player I
think has been up in value a little bit compared
to what his value was perceived as what.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
He's definitely been better for them than he was for
San Antonio. Next team on the board, I think we're
gonna say a lot more kinder things about the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Key addition, nobody right, no key addition, DeAndre Hunter, key subtractions,
Karras Lavert, George Niang before I throw it to you,
I think one of the things that deserves more praise

(20:29):
than it has gotten is the Cavs' decision. I know
we all thought it was like a pretty good trade,
but to shake things up when they were still rolling
to the point where it's okay, you're gonna have the
one seed in the East, you're one of the best
teams in the league. It would have been very easy
and defensible by the way to just stan pat And
not only did they not do that, but like you
go after someone who, Okay, DeAndre Hunter hasn't started a

(20:50):
ton of games, but like he's a prominent part of
what you're doing. Like it was a real shakeup, and
so I commend them for having the gall to look
at themselves and say, you know what, we're amazing. We're
gonna roll the dice on trying to be even better than.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
That, you know who I commend. I commend DeAndre Hunter
for an entirely different reason as well. He was going
through a breakout year. He was taking more shots, he
was more aggressive on the floor, like he was basically
finally coming into his own Like I would understand the

(21:24):
motivation of a player getting traded mid season of a
breakout to come into that new team and say, no, no, no,
I'm not losing this momento. I'm still gonna jack shots.
He has been just a pillar of team oriented play
since coming to Cleveland. Like he takes open shots, He'll
take open driving lanes and get to the cup, but

(21:46):
he's not forcing anything. Like I wouldn't have blamed him
if he came in and was like, no, no, I
gotta look out for my stats. I gotta look out
for me. I need to get up to that eighteen
nineteen points. But this dude, just embrace this winning coultry
who's like, yeah, I'm gonna ingrain myself in the right
way my personal belief in DeAndre Hunter coming into this

(22:10):
season before we knew of the breakouts. Now just the
fact that we saw him break out first and foremost,
and now we're seeing this total team buy in. Like
I refuse to hear anyone call him an overpaid player
again at this point right now, He's not. He's just not.
He is a matri acid.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, I would echo everything you said there, But fifty
on threes since being in Cleveland, and they've used him
a lot where we haven't actually seen a ton of
him with the four other starters, they've only logged forty
possessions together, and they're killing it during that time because
of course, but so they're basically using him in a
lot of one of those one big setups. They are
plus twenty point four points per one hundred posessions with

(22:54):
DeAndre Hunter as the loan big and notably here too,
and like it's coming its span when Evan Mobley's three
point shooting is cooled off shootings, everyone was shooting seventy
one percent on twos when DeAndre Hunter's on the floor
next to him, like with no other big, they've opened up,
Like I know their offense was good to begin with,
has been their first and offense since the trade deadline.
Second in defense, they haven't lost yet since the trade deadline.

(23:17):
This team is if if there were any holdouts on
whether they're a contender or not, like it's time to
stop holding out there. So and the other thing too
with Hunter, like he's been I think he's done exactly
what they needed defensively and so like we're working with
small sample sizes because they've only played a game against
the Celtics. On possessions in which DeAndre Hunters guarded Jason Tatum,

(23:40):
the defense is allowing point four to six points per possession.
Flip it to Jalen Brown, the defense as a team
again allowing point nine to three points per possession. Like that,
he's gonna be a very very valuable body in the playoffs.
And I know that Luca was traded. I know that
there were some bigger names traded, but there's a chance
that this is the guy who warps the championship discussion

(24:01):
or outcome maybe more than anybody else who was traded
at the deadline. Yep, I think big time w from
the Cavs, who by the way, did not give up
an actual first round pick. To get him. Either, that's
another big deal here, another team. More. I don't really
know what you're gonna say about the Dallas Mavericks here, like, oh.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, yeah. At least Anthony Davis looked awesome in his
one game for the franchise, just.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Like the poetic I don't I don't want to say
it's poetic justice, but just like the forma of making
that trade and then having Anthony Davis get injured in
the first game for the Mavericks, it really sucks for
AD but it's man. Nico Harrison and I just look.
Max Christie's looked really good for them too. We could
at least say that.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
We can say that, but but can we also like
here's the thing to me, Like, obviously everyone's gonna talk
about the Luca trade. They also severely fumbled the Quentin
Grimes that too.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Well, did you see the reporting that he asked for
the trade? Because okay, I didn't see it at first either.
It was related to us in our discord. There's another reminder,
that's why you should be in our discord.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Mort What the fuck I should? Yes, I have the time, obviously,
I only work eighty hours a week. Yes, I'll come to.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, that's it, you've cut down. Congrats. So he he
apparently asked for a trade in the fallout of what
happened with Luca is how that's being framed. And I
just find that funny that the Luca Doncies fell out
began immediately, whereas players are looking at this organization and saying,
what the fuck is going on here? So they did
fumble it. I'm not saying like this doesn't give them

(25:42):
any cover at all, but honestly, look even worse.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
I mean, and that's a restricted free agent too, Like
he's like, think about it, if he went to a
team where he wouldn't play, for example, he would have
just murdered his own contract. Bella you. So this guy's
was This guy, apparently, as I'm just learning right now,
was so determined to get out of that situation. And

(26:08):
he was like, oh, screw the fact that I'm a
restrictive free agent. I'm just gonna I'm just not gonna
stay here, Like he would have had an open path
to like twenty points per game, he could even have
improved his own by staying with the Masks, and he
was like, well.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Nope, nope, maybe not because so I guess even if
you assume that, yeah, there definitely would have been more
opportunity there because you couldn't have predicted that Anthony Davis
and Kyrie Irving would both get injured. But you also
could have predicted that Anthony Davis would have been out
at some point and the offense needed right more options. Now,
if you are Quenton Grimes, though, if you just see
what they did the LUCA, even if you think you

(26:44):
up your value, you know how valuable bird rights are
and restricted free agency because no one hands out offer sheets.
Do you trust the Mavericks not to completely low ball
you slash play hardball because I don't think anyone is
gonna want to even maybe some would. Would they tie
up their non tax payer level exception in a Quent
and Grind's offer sheet? I don't know. I mean, he

(27:05):
looks like a genius after that look.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
I I was high on him all year long. I
know the Knicks fans beat me to the punch when
he came into the league. Like I'm not saying that
that that they weren't on the ball there, but then
he was. He kind of became a journeyman and he
was like added additions to a trade like he was
he was a throw in, like people sort of said, oh,
like this guy's never who you know who played for

(27:30):
the Knicks. This this he's done. I love how he's
played in Philly and it it on a personal note,
I take great pleasure out of it because I don't
like the way the MAVs handfled the post trade of Luke,
Like it's one thing to go in a different direction,
but to go on a two to three week Schmer
campaign of fat shaming him and calling out like traditions

(27:54):
and like just how he is as a human being
and even alluding to issue. It's just it was so
weak that I greatly enjoyed watching them lose the Quentin
Grimes trade as well.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Absolutely, and look it looks even worse because not only
has kle Mart not played, but like you needed to
adjust the parameters of the trade because the physical was
so bad. But Max Christy is really what should be
the focus, Like Cams lost the trade deadline. It doesn't
like it's what if you're any like something that stood
out to you. But what he's doing, I've definitely liked

(28:28):
putting the ball on the floor and attacking on drives
more I am curious, and we're gonna see more of
this as the season goes on. I assume there's still
limitations there, as like an actual creator where you're gonna
try and have him run pick and roll, which I
assume his volumes up and it's gonna continue to climb
with all these injuries in Dallas, I don't see it
like and defensively still solid. I still don't see if
you're looking for him to be a more dynamic offensive

(28:50):
player than maybe someone who can hit threes, get his
own offense going downhill, but not do much more. I
don't know if he has a higher ceiling than that,
but I will say I didn't think he was going
to play like that, like he became the Lakers like
go to perimeter defender by the end of his time there,
So I never would have predicted that either.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
I'll say as much though, and I'm I like Max Christie,
but I also think the superlatives have become a little
too aggressive because I'm just I'm just gonna read you
his last eight games all right, eight and a half
points per game, thirty four point seven percent shooting from
the field. Overall, that's where we are, so he's falling

(29:32):
back down to earth to a point where, you know,
he showed this bleep on the radar immediately after being traded,
which was very encouraging, But I have taken note of
the fact that he has dropped down significantly since. So
I'm like, I don't want to put him in a
situation where I'm just praising him too hard so he

(29:54):
goes into like next season. Not that he would listen
to what I say at any point, but like, I
just think we shouldn't crown him too quickly here. We
should we should perhaps acknowledge he had a good first
leap of the radar after he was traded, and now
he has to find his sea legs.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
I you know, I honestly think though that might come
back to what I said, whereas he is so he
needs to be dependent on not just maybe others to
set him up with the threat of them. This is
someone who on the years in the eleventh percentile of
self created shot making efficiency, and I don't think he's
just not in the best situation to optimize himself. Now
they're driving though. For that's been something that I've been

(30:34):
like the volume of it and some of the finishes
there that I've been fairly impressed with. So I found
someone who's lower on me than Max Christie. That makes
me excited. Let's talk Detroit Pistons. Mark, go through all
their key subtractions at the deadline. Who did they lose
that They're just they're really missing at this point.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
I'm actually surprised that you brought up the Pistons, because
you know, I get it. It's it's Lindy Waters. That's
why it's it's a homage to to Grant. I get it. No,
they got Denny Shorter in there. That was nice. Do
I think this dramatically altered their season or their top
potential for this season? Not? Not specifically, No, I mean

(31:17):
Shorter has been fine ish.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
So can I counter that by saying I strongly disagree
with basically everything you're saying, except okay, Dennis Shooter individually
has been fine. If not, if you were to look
at it in a vacuum and say, well, maybe it's
a little disappointing. You added someone who helps you now
without having to take on any long term money or.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Give up as Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, so I think that you increase your ceiling while
also then increasing your or maintaining your ceiling for flexibility
moving forward. The biggest difference for me though, when you
watch the Pistons, Kay Cunningham gets getting to play off
the ball even more. We've seen the share of his
buckets that are coming off assists go up dramatically when
he's playing with Dennis shrewder Moret he is shooting fifty

(32:01):
three percent on twos and forty seven percent on threes.
Shooter as someone, if you're going to play him without Kaid,
he's going to struggle offensively himself. But the Pistons have
won those minutes mostly with defense, some good three point shooting,
and transition. I think that's fine. So I think this
is like a big deal to have someone who can
take the ball out of Caid's hands, Like during your

(32:22):
top end lineups lineup minutes, you're in the ninety nine
percent tile of offense with the two of them on
the floor right now. So I think that they've I
guess the thing I would disagree with the most. I
think they've probably materially changed their ceiling this year because
they see more dynamic with Kid on the floor. And
if you're talking about just eating innings during the regular season,

(32:43):
or trying to buy a little bit of time. In
a playoff series, you have more competent non kate lineups,
and this is all like coincided with I don't think
Dennis Shruder has been a driving force of this, but
they've the league's best defense since the trade deadline. If
you were sort of to nitpick where they feel still
offensively vulnerable, they're like bottom five and turnover rate during
this ban in their defense A lot of I think

(33:05):
their defense success excuse me, and I don't think this
has received enough attention. A lot of it's like predicated
on they need to be set, and it's like if
you're committing turnovers, like their defense is not going to
be set, and they've been getting blasted in those situations.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
I think that's fair. I think you raise some very
fair points there, especially because they didn't linquish anything and
you're play basically playing with house money in many ways.
With Shorter, I think to me, it's because I've seen
this movie before. I generally do not trust any Shorter
unless it's like a FETA competition, because that just seems

(33:39):
like that's where he's best wired. It seems to me
that in NBA context, He'll have these moments where he
goes in, has this positive influence for about fifteen to
twenty games, and all of a sudden, something just kind
of happens. Whether it's his it's intensity, it's his energy,

(34:02):
it's his commitment, it's its devotion, whatever you want to
call it, something slips. So I generally come into this
with a much lower opinion of Dennis Schroeder than most
other people. I've also watched a ton of him just
kind of messing up the Terman national team. Like, I know,
they won the World Championship. I'm not gonna sit here

(34:24):
and say they don't. But you have guys literally saying
I'm not going to join the national team because he's there.
So like there are issues, like he has locker room
issues as well. We've heard that ever since Atlanta, and
some of these issues just persist on the national level.
So whenever I hear like the name Dannis Schroeder and
upgrade in the same sentence, I'm just immediate, like for now, sure,

(34:49):
for now, it's fine. Ten games from now, fifteen games
from now, I guess.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
I guess My point though, is, even if Dennis Schroder
is bad, the malleability. It gives them to use Kate
Cunningham in different ways, even provide him in game breaks.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
And yeah, that and that's the one. That's that's the
I actually agree with you on that one because you're
right the fact that they don't have Jade and Ivy,
for example, available because he's out for the year, then
you need someone else to handle the ball because who
who else is out there to really do that out
on the perimeter, Like, yeah, Jalen Jerny is a good passer,
not necessarily from the perimeter, Like he's a good interior pastor,

(35:26):
Like he'll find people at the like at the elbow
or in the post and whatnot. User Thompson has some
potential as a playmaker, but not quite there yet, Like
who do you really trust with the ball in his hands?
A whole lot? Like I personally, I probably would have
tried out Marcus Asser a little bit more, but I

(35:46):
understand that he's younger, he's not at that level yet
and frankly he might have been a little overrated based
on what he did last year. So you're kind of
at a point where it's totally fair to wonder who
the hell is the offense going to flow through when
it's not Kate.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, so there I'm gonna I'm excited to see them
in the playoffs and they're like within striking distance of
fourth place in the East. Now it's this is just
freaking wild one of them. There's always like those big
disconnects for me, at least of impressions you have of
a team going into the season versus where they end up.
This is gonna be like if they finished I don't know,
like fifth or fourth in the East, this will be
like one of the all time just biggest disconnects that

(36:24):
I've I've ever had.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
I was hoping that they would actually end up with
trade Jones at the traded line. I was sitting there
hoping that they'd make like a play for him after
he came to Chicago, because then they could have traded
him as a singular contract. That was the player I
was looking for there for them, who I think would
have made a ton of sense.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Still do why do you trust him more? Why do
you like him more than.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
A shrewder, more more composed, more composed player. I think
I think he's far more disciplined in his game. I
think he is more intentional as well, defensively, he knows
what he's going for. Yeah, he's short of stature, and
I know that that Schroder is quicker, like more athletic.
In that regard, Jones is stronger. I think he's smarter.

(37:09):
I think his screen navigation is significantly better. I like
his his his playmaking more as well. Like shorter you can,
you can, you can sort of painted like this Schroed
high end Schroeder is a lot better than Trade Jones.
The question is to me, how often do we get
that version of Denis Shroeder, And I don't think it's
very often, whereas some with Trade Jones. I believe his

(37:31):
floor is fairly high, Like you get a level of
consistency there from game to game that you won't necessarily
get with Dennis ten or fifteen games from now. That's fair.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
I was rooting for them to get Dennis Shooter because
I pitched it so much on the podcast. Oh nicely,
That's why I was rooting for them to get Denis.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Sure fair congratulations, then thank you.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Congratulations to the Golden State Warriors who traded for Jimmy
Butler and who knew putting good players around Jeff Curry
can go a long way. There no no offense to
Andrew Wiggins, but there was a lot of the amount.
I'm not the type of people who would basically subscribe
to the thought process of people forgot who Jimmy Butler was,
but the pretzel twisting that went into trying to prove

(38:15):
why Andrew Wiggins would be more valuable to Golden State
than Andrew Wiggins, Why jud be less able to go
and State than Andrew Wigins. I just can never get
behind and they've look, they have Jimmy Butler, they' of
course lost Kyle Anderson, Denis Srueter, Andrew Wiggins, can't forget
Lindy Waters. The third either would have been your impressions
of the Jimmy Butler experience in Golden State so far.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
It's been when I think most of us anticipated that
here comes a guy who is an extraordinarily gifted to
AA player and you're giving that to Steph Curry to
wrap up the last couple of years of his career,
like you're making them competitive. Do we think it's, you know,
championship level competitive? I hesitate to go that far. Well

(38:58):
as you're at least getting a guy in there now
who is a secondary playmaker who gets you into the
free throw line, which, if memory serves, the last one
who could really do that at great lengths was Kevin Durbrant.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
And not in the same like you want like rim
pressure too, like your shot profile a little bit like
they've when's the last time like Johnathan Aminga comes close,
but it's just not nearly as dynamic as.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
You know, who is it's Corey mcgheeddy.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
That's that is a throwback name, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
But that's that's probably the last time they had a
guy that good at actually just getting to the foul line.
So so it's like we're not breaking news here. Jimmy
Butler coming onto this team was was good for them.
The fact that he's like he's actually struggling with his
shots a little bit, and and that only gives me
even more, you know, reasons to be optimistic moving forward,

(39:49):
because if there's a guy who will always find a way,
it's Jimmy. We know this, We've seen that historically. So
when his shooting percentages are going to increase and when
he like feels a little bit more relaxed in that system,
more comfortable, I could definitely see them level up a
little bit more. Again, I really hesitate to like call

(40:10):
them a championship contender over the next couple of years.
Maybe they surprised me. I am not there, but I
do think they're like that's super low, So.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
I have them. I wouldn't have them as Tier one,
but like, I probably view them as close to as
like as like they're on the Knicks Nuggets tier. Like.
I think they're a contender. If honestly, if you made
me rank my top five contenders, they probably come out
like I have, it'd be Denver, OKAC, Cleveland, and Boston
in some order for the top four. I probably have
Golden State fifth. Right now, I think I would echo

(40:42):
most of what you said. It's been interesting too, like
they've played generally so well with him, and you mentioned
him struggling within his shot. There's just been games where
feels like he's settling and not getting to the basket
as much and taking shots that you don't necessarily even
want him to take. You have to imagine that that's
not going to be every single game. And I think
you mentioned the free throw stuff. They are second in

(41:03):
free throw attempt rate since the Jimmy Butler trade. They
are in the ninety nine percentile of generating free throws
when Jimmy Butler's on the floor. That is just the
dynamic of this team. Where he's going to be, even
when he's not at his best, probably give you a
more consistent floor on offense and even defense than a
Jonathan Kaminga. And I think, look, this is big. I
know it may not matter as much in the playoffs,

(41:24):
but you know what, at the same time, small samples
matter in the postseason even more because of how short
the postseason is. They are destroying opponents. When Jimmy Butler
plays without Steph Curry right now, plus seventeen per one hundred,
that is an element. There were points during the Kevin
Durant era where like those numbers were still even murky.
So to have someone in Jimmy Butler who gives you
the ability to get Steph breaks by one, displacing him

(41:48):
from the ball even more when he's playing, but to
actually navigate minutes without him, I don't know that we
can overstate the importance of that, and the reason I
would be hesitant if I was to try and on
my own point to loop them in as a title contender.
And I don't actually mean this as disrespect to Jonathan kaminga.
How does this all work out when he's playing a

(42:09):
bigger role? Can he and Jimmy both be plugging play
at the same time when you're gonna have Draymond or
like another big on the court and so you're not
gonna have that spacing. I am way more optimistic about
it though than I was, just based off how well
they've performed since the trade deadline. And look, part of
that is Quintin Post being able to open up the

(42:29):
floor for minutes like that matters. Getting Brandon Pajemski. His
three point percentages is now dipped, but he's been playing
better since he came back from injury. I think that
this team, I don't know more, there's just something here,
and I framed it as at the time of the trade,
they've definitely increased their lightning in a bottle potential and
I'm not even saying they found it. I think that

(42:50):
they've they've elevated their floor in the playoff conversation, I
think a lot more than even optimists like myself said
they would at the time of the deal.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Before the season, did you ever think you'd make like
a legitimate Quinton Post point about like the NBA team like,
oh yeah, like his spacing opens to up. It just
came out of nowhere. I love that.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Yeah, I mean even Key Santo's like giving him a
good minutes. So like I did not think. I probably
could have predicted I'd be Mentioningy Santo's at some point
just because I had I have a track record of him.
But Quinton Post, no, no, I would have been if
someone would have mentioned that to me, I would have
I try to not be condescending when I disagree, but
I easily would have laughed someone off. You know, keep
an eye on Quinton Post.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
It's fantastic. I love I love those success success stories.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
And by the way, just the value going out because
we're gonna get into the heat in a second, perfectly
reasonable value for Jimmy Butler because like Dennis Shruter like
to then use his salary as part like it. Maybe
you could have cut out a step had you said, like, oh,
let's not give up three seconds for Dennis Shooter and
make this trade. But like Detroit was just willing to
take Dennis Shooter, they wouldn't have been able to do
that with Danthey Melton because he's injured for the rest

(43:59):
of the year. And I think Wiggins was good for
this team, but what Jimmy Butler gives you on offense
specifically is just so much more dynamic, even if you
like Andrew Wiggins at this point better as your primary
on ball defender.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
One final question before we move on, what don't we
make of tray Syaction Davis his future moving forward? I
can't figuring him out. We're one hundred and twenty games
into his career now, I'm still I can't figuring him out. Dan.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
So part of me thinks that he's gonna need to
be on a team that has better spacing in the
front court if he's ever gonna make like a true impact.
But I also just think that stuff with him is
going to come and go, and he'll have these small
berths when you look at his size and where he's
best suited positionally. So he sort of like he has
a lot of different skills that are worth plumbing, But
I don't know that he's ever gonna have a like

(44:48):
a skill set that you can market him for.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
No, he's extremely like when you think about it, right,
you know, excellent shot blocker, high efficiency player, he really
knows when to like take the right shots, like for
Fox's sakes, he shot seventy percent from the field in
his rookie season. He says he's a surprisingly good passer,
is especially like from the short role situation, strong ass, rebounder,

(45:12):
Like all those elements together should should give you something
even in today's league, And yet it's mob up beauty.
I just wonder what the hell is missing. If it's
between the ears, if it's like motivational stuff, it's like
de occasion, I don't know what it is. I just

(45:32):
don't know what it is.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know that I would even
call him a fantastic rebounder. And I don't think that
the shot blocking he has ever necessarily translates to like
deterrence or actual rim protection too. And I wonder if
he would be if you could say that your power
forward or maybe even your center, and you're like, you
can't play him with Clinton post them again, but if

(45:54):
there was more room to open up, Like it feels
like he needs to be on a team that is
going to have someone alongside him in the front court,
maybe two people. When you're looking at that three spot too,
that needs to open up the floor for him to
have his true impact. And even then, do you think
that he could be a classic case of like there's
value in versatility, but just because you're versatile doesn't mean
that you're valuable, If that makes any sense it does?

Speaker 2 (46:15):
You know? He really is his father? What you think
about it? Dale Davis? Just a complete non shooter. Just
everything around the rim, everything is like they're one to
one in so many ways. It's actually quite interesting. God damnit, Dale,
why didn't you teach your son to shoot?

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Why is it on him? How many levels of basketball? Like,
wasn't he busy being an NBA player? There should have
been a coach or something that helped him with the shooting.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
I don't care. It's his father's responsibility absolutely.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
At this point. Yeah, it was definitely blamed Dale Davis.
There's the there's the shout out of everybody was waiting
for on this part some Dale Davis slander. Next team
up and really player the Clippers so key addition, both
do bogdanovitch keys of Terence Man. I mean they did
add Ben Simmons. That was not a trade deadline move.
I am all over the place on this team on

(47:08):
both Bogdanovich on where this team is going moving forward?
Where are you at here?

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Same? I like, I do understand that they're going for
it right like they got older here and on paper
booked on Bogdanovic is the better player. He had a
rough start to the season in Atlanta, which was you know,
he had some injury concerns. I believe after the Olympics, right,
there was something there. There was something that limited him,
because after coming off the Olympics he looked fine. I

(47:35):
was like, oh, oh, it's gonna be one of those years.
And it turned out to very much not be that.
But in an optimized world where with an optimized booked
on Bogdanovic, that's an upgrade yep in and of itself.
And I don't know if it's the age. I don't
know if it's just a bad year that he has
to wash away over the course of summer. I don't

(47:58):
know what the hell it is. But he has to
look the same throughout all of it. If that changes
within the next fifteen twenty games going into the playoffs,
then all of a sudden we're looking at a clipper
seam that could be quite dangerous. But you got to
have booked down up of that level where he's averaging
fifteen seventeen points per game, shooting a ton of threes

(48:20):
and hitting them at thirty eight to forty percent. Like
this level of player you're getting right now where he's
not getting to the line, he's not making up for
it from three. He's not making up forward with efficiency,
like he's not making up forward with playmaking. You're just
kind of he's kind of there right now. It's not
good enough. You need more.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
I'm curious to see kind of what he looks like
in the larger context of their team, now that you
know you're gonna work. I think, look, getting him what
was kind of Loki huge is just like I don't
know if anyone understood how much time Norm Powell was
going to end up missing in the aggregate, right. I
think in Fury he's exactly what they've needed. He looks
way better in LA than he did it in Atlanta.
I think they're still yellman of is he trying to

(49:01):
get his sea legs back or still? But it looks
like he's moving better. I think the shot it's there,
what oh no, think of that? But they're the shot.
I don't think it's like all the way back because
there's that inconsistency there, but he's had some it feels
like higher end performances and that there's been at least
kind of more of an equilibrium than he ever found
in Atlanta with a shot making this season fifty five percent

(49:24):
on drives, shooting fifty plus percent on twos when he's
playing without James Harden and I think like that's kind
of the key there is when you're dealing with we
know a Kawhi Leonard can be at points just hits
a game winner the other night, but like when you're
dealing with some of the like Norman Powell. He's improved
a bunch, but there's some semblance of like deficit there,
especially when you're looking for playmaking. Can you get more

(49:45):
out of that from Bogdanovic. I think he's gonna end
up opening the floor a bunch for this team. He's
at thirty eight plus percent on his pull up threes
in la I. You you mentioned they're in on now
and they got someone who fits that motif without having
to give up assets that really say they're all in.
I do not know, though, how valuable he becomes to
them in the playoffs, where if we assume Kawhi, Norman Powell,

(50:06):
and Harden are all available, he might fall by the
wayside in certain matchups, but I think that he could
become critical to maybe some of those smaller stretches, shorter stretches,
excuse me, in the postseason where it's all right, James
Harden is on the bench, you might you definitely like
him more in those minutes than like Norman Powell if
you need to put the ball in someone's hands as
a as a playmaker. And then on top of like

(50:27):
if all of a sudden, now in those minutes and
that's like, by the way, that's what he is gonna
live a lot of the time. Now, it's different when
it's like Norman Powell without James Harden and then Kawhi
Leonards was injured, like a lot of the stuff we
saw at the beginning of the season. It's so much
different if it's, oh, James Harden's on the bench, and
you know what, like we could play Kawhi ed Bogdanovich
and Norman Powell if we wanted, And so look the

(50:48):
Clippers so far with Bugdanovich on the floor and no
James Harden plus nine per one hundred, and they're not
winning those minutes with defense either, which to me suggests
that their ceiling is still higher if everything hit. It's
it's just this is the consummate team where I don't
think you can count on or even predict whether everything
is gonna hit.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yep, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Loved that pickup, though, by the way, might have been
one of the more underrated moves for me at the
trade deadline. This move insane this team, this move insanely underrated.
Clearly more the Lakers added Luka and Ancic and Maxi
Kliba and they lost Anthony Davis and Max Christy.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
How are you nothing to talk about there? Obviously, that's
just you know, they they found some in the international
scrub with weight issues.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Apparently, who's not even like Lukadaanci you shooting forty five
percent on drives under thirty two percent on three since
being in LA and you could still just tell like
this was a bonker's move by the Maverick's not that
you ever would have been able to justify it. But
Luca's not even close to peak Luca Josh yet. I
wonder if we get that during this point of the season,

(51:54):
but I think like they're killing it in the minutes
he plays without Lebron, And so if you want to
kind of find silver linings to Lebron's injury, I mean
the off the on off splits have been all sorts
of wonky with Lebron this season. But like, if you
need to navigate time without Lebron and you're worried about it,
Luka Dancic is gonna help you do that more than
Anthony Gavid.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
It might be the perfect, Yes, it's the perfect guides
to that Responsibility's.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Only only Jokic would be the only Like if you
were to name another player, where's we can only have
one star, But we're trying to figure out a way
to survive on offense, it's Joki, Luka Tatcic and that fit.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
You know what's the really telling story here, It's it's
when Luca has struggled shooting, you know, from the field,
like efficiency wise, like you said, he's not where he's
usually at, Like he's still coming.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Still at like seventy five percent at the rim, which
because those Lakers have these not something I guess we
should have predicted it looking at their center rotation, but
they have this like small ball combos that become killers.
It's now Luca who does not look nearly as fast
or athletic as he was like what three years ago
or something. It's just get into the rim more gotch.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
But like the fact when he struggles you have MAVs
fans just like putting in excuses for him, which is
like fair, but like that was just interesting to me
because I thought there would be at least some fans
who would be like, yeah, like he's gonna struggle like that,
maybe this deal was like good enough anyway, like just
trying to talk themselves into it. MAVs fans have been

(53:22):
like the biggest Lucas supporters ever since he made it
to the Lakers, which in some way makes me sad,
like the fact that this fan base is so lost
right now that they're just gonna go, well, you know,
let's let's just watch our eternal enemies from Los Angeles
and let's root for the guy who was sent there.
I it's just it's the weirdest season I can remember

(53:47):
when it comes to like player acquisitions.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Yeah, bizarre for sure. And I still I just feel
for MAVs fans, and I really don't like it's just
you know, you know, we're laughing at this, but it's
like for the fans, this really does suck when and
you're looking at you can't win, like Kyrie gets injured,
Anthony Davis gets injured, and Quenton Grimes goes off in Philly.
They just they can't win, like Lakers specifically, though we

(54:11):
did a contender or pretender exercise shortly after the trade,
I don't even know if Luca debuted at that point.
I said the Lakers were not contenders. You try to
correct me. It seems like you were right. The two
questions I have the defense, like do you view this
as this? They are third in point slab per possession
since the trade deadline, but they're basically first since like

(54:32):
the middle of January. You look at the activity on
defense and it is there. I still just want to
look at the center situation. I'm like, some of the
lineups they need to rely on. I can't see that sustaining.
But I don't have reasoning beyond that to point. And
you could look at their schedule and say, Okay, it's
not like they're playing a top ten offense every single night.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Right, I mean, look, I don't think it's gonna rate
as well moving forward. But I mean, look, JJ Reddick
is a maths guy, you know, He's a guy who
understands we need to give teams the shots that we
want them to take. So like if we think that
player X who loves to get into the mid range

(55:13):
area and take a pull up, if we want to
live with that shot, let's give it to him. And
so that's part of it, right. Also, I think we've
seen a change with Lebron. I think what we've seen
and this is a coaching change as well, with Reddick
actually implementing something. So we all agree that Lebron is
not the same defender that he used to be. That

(55:35):
right now he plays more in spurts defensively than he
does like over the course of a full game, Like
he might have five minutes total in a game where
he just goes like old Lebron, like not old Lebron,
because this sold prime Lebron defensively. But under Darvin Ham,
those moments were pretty random. I think under Redick it's like, no,

(55:58):
we're gonna choose these those moments with more care. Like
he and Lebron you can see them just talking constantly
the Denver game, Like I don't remember the specific play,
but like eventually he ended up on Jokich and he's
at least initially and then I think he rotated off.
But like you could see there was a communication between

(56:21):
him and JJ Reddick where Reddick was kind of like,
now now is the time you go, Whereas under Darvin Ham,
I don't think he ever realized when that time was.
So Lebron himself kind of had to guess all the time, like, oh,
I'm gonna have to exert myself on Dorian Finney Smith
before he became a Laker obviously, So to me, it

(56:44):
seems everything is more purposeful, everything's like with more intent.
So now JJ Redick came into this situation, he knew,
all right, I might have five to seven good minutes
of Lebron defense every at my exposal, every single thing.
I'm gonna try to make sure I get the most
out of those at the right time against the right matchup,

(57:05):
just at the tone whatever his loggie is, that to
me matters a shit son to just if basically make
Lebron a way more efficient defender in the minutes that
he knows that he has at his disposal, Like I'm
not gonna sit here and say that's going to fix
the center situation, because it's not what I do think.
Having a coach who understands that the game plan, who

(57:26):
understands how to relinquish this quote unquote right shots and
understanding when to trigger his superstar into like assert himself
with the right times is invaluable.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
It's interesting you say the right shots too, because I
think one of the things they're allowing sub thirty two
percent shooting from three while conceding a ton of threes.
There's only like three teams allowing more. That's not going
to sustain. But I am sufficiently intrigued by is basically
the Lebron at the five lineup where you have Dorny
Phinny Smith and Rui plus Luca and Reeves. That lineup

(58:01):
has defended way better than I ever would have expected to.
And like the Lakers half court defense has been a
monster since the trade deadline. It's like a big part
of what they're doing is like if they're gonna be
able to avoid someone like the transition situations, that probably
gives them their best bet of sustaining this defense. But
I do think there's been like this noticeable uptick in Lebron,

(58:24):
which how much of it? And I apologies if I
just missed you saying this is also right, Like we
have Luca to put the ball in his hands on
top of Austin Reeves, Like those are really two options
that you could go to other than Lebron, and so
you're finding ways to get him more like in game
breaks while he's still playing on offense, which is just
not a luxury you've ever had, like since what they

(58:45):
could do that with Cleveland and Kyrie. But like when
you're looking at Reeves and Luca, like that's just a
different level of optionality there. But yeah, I'd like it's
tough for me to I think the defense is gonna slide,
but and I know the Luca Bron minutes I'm not
necessarily been a killer, and now Lebron's gonna miss some time.
But like just having to face these two in a
playoff setting, if the defense is even competent overall, that's

(59:08):
not a matchup any any team should feel comfortable.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
And that was the point I was making. It was
an idiot?

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Did I call you an idiot?

Speaker 2 (59:15):
No? You didn't know? You didn't don't I was.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Like, I thought I told everybody else you were an
idiot off air that you didn't hear I thought was behind.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
That was certainly true, and that's honestly, that's a fair
point to make. Like every single day of the week,
just outside of that particular day that we apparently recorded.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
You were right there. The Lakers are gonna be good
with Lucaspicy take who knew?

Speaker 2 (59:33):
I know? Right?

Speaker 1 (59:34):
More Miami incomes Kyle Anderson, Davion Mitchell, Andrew Wiggins. Out
goes Jimmy Butler, CEO Big Face Coffee. I think because
he as the founder of Big Face Coffee.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Both maybe yeah, treacherous.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Well, I guess, So, how you feeling about this team?

Speaker 2 (59:56):
I mean they're there. I guess no.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Here.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Look, my opinion of the Heat hasn't changed. I think
they should go for it this year to make the playoffs.
Because of the draftic situation that we've talked about before.
They will relinquish their unprotected twenty twenty six if they
don't make it and will give up. This year's a
lot of reprotected if they make it, so like that
should still be the aim. And then immediately after they've

(01:00:22):
done that, I think they should blow it to bits
because I am not seeing what the hell where is
this team going? Like, yeah, sure you can run it
back next year with Tyler Herro and Bam and a
bios your leading men. Where does that take you? And
now all you got Andrew Wickens school Wiggins has played well,
not efficiency see wise, but like he's actually I like

(01:00:44):
the way he's moved. He's gotten to the club a
lot more than I thought he would, Like he's driving well,
defenses is where it should be. I still don't see
what like where this team is ultimately going to end up,
Like if they he returned this roster next year, what
like what is the highest high they can go to?

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
A right like maybe six in the East maybe, And
like I think that's a stretch when you look at
like Detroit, Indiana, Milwaukee doesn't blow it up, you have
a knick Celtics and Calves, so maybe eighth. And I
think what is the to kind of make it more
of a macro thing? When you look at what they've
done since the trade deadline, how Wiggins is fit them
using davey on Mitchell, Kyle Anderson, the whole nine, it's

(01:01:30):
very clear. I think that they're bigger, probably their biggest
problem is coming on the offensive end, right, Like Tyler
Herro has been good this year, but his job has
gotten a lot harder with this current makeup of the roster,
and so you've seen even his efficiency decline. We saw
like Khalil Ware three point shooting fell off a cliff,
bam Adebayo's got like he's been better on that any
shooting thirty six percent from three since the trade line.
They have the worst crunch time offense in the league,

(01:01:51):
one of the worst fourth quarter offenses overall in the league.
I just don't like you have Tyler Hero and bam
Adebayo are your most dynamic offensive players, and I think
when you're looking at at that as a driver of
offense for others specifically, that's incredibly problematic in ways that
Kyle Anderson Andrew Wiggins, like those guys aren't gonna address that.
We know that, Like in so far as Terry Rozier

(01:02:14):
ever could have, this version of Terry Rozier did not.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
What has Okay, Look, I know this is like a
post traded line pod. What the hell has happened to
taro O? Sheer like it's not even it's not even
that he's just struggling. It's that some of his decisions
are just like it Greaches. It's like he will he

(01:02:39):
will like, okay, look jump past this, are cool, Kaitlin Cooper.
I don't disagree with that, but not when they come
from Tarot Sheer, because Taro Sheer will spin in the
air for no apparent reason, turn the ball over and
not get back on defense. Like he'll be completely I
don't know what it is, like out of sorts, out
of whack, like no flow whatsoever. In his own game,

(01:03:00):
he'll airball open threes, even from the corner, like this
is so far removed from Charlotte version. Terros Hear, I
have no rational explanation, like it's fait. It's fine that
a player regresses to a ploy. It's interesting, just weird.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
It's interesting you bring him up because I actually think
that he's kind of a symptom of their situation where
that was a move that a lot of people panned
in the moment last year when he made it. But
if you were to give up the draft pick that
you did to get him when you if you didn't
think that things were copasetic with Jimmy Butler, like you
had to have some inkling that stuff was gonna come
to a head over this past offseason then leaking into

(01:03:40):
this year, and you then give up because you mentioned
they need to tear it down after this year, like
mort at this rate, they're gonna keep their pick and
then it just they oh unprotected picks basically in twenty
twenty six and twenty twenty eight at that point, So
how do you justify tearing it down like the Terry
Rose ear? Now, if you didn't have that pick headed
to Charlotte, maybe it makes your decisions like a little

(01:04:03):
bit easier from here moving forward. So I still that
seemed like risky at the time, just because you viewed
it as getting off of an expiring contract in Kyle
Lowry and saving money like immediately off the bottom line,
while in theory getting a helpful player. But if you
didn't have the Jimmy Butler situation, like you weren't completely
in tune with it, like to make that move is

(01:04:24):
so egregious and it's not a benefit of hindsight thing.
It's there's no way you got from Jimmy Butler, like
James hardening his way out. I mean, I guess he's
Jimmy butlering his way out of somewhere, Like it didn't
just happen overnight because pat Riley said something in a
press conference. That's not something that happens overnight, is my point,
And that's kind of a symptom of where they're at
right now. Like, yeah, the Jimmy Butler return was fine,

(01:04:45):
and I think I think Andrew Wiggins will make more
shots for Sean myacer. That is something that will absolutely happen.
I'm still look Hayward high Smith, Duncan Robinson like they've
cobbled together some good campaigns, but this team feels stranded,
like they're like they feel there are there, I guess
marginally better off than the Bulls and the Balls at
least control all their own picks moving forward. So are

(01:05:05):
they better off than the Bulls?

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Well, they're smarter, so that that's all your heroes good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
They have useful players that that was an extreme and
they can.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Relinquish a lot of draft picks this summer if they
give up Bam.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Who owns their picks. So you have Oka c and
I mean Charlotte, you can probably get your pick back
from Charlotte if you wanted to throw Bam at a
Bio on they and more probably and more I'm saying.
But normally it's like there is a limited downs there
is a limited upside to tearing it down. If you
can't get back your own picks. Like if you if
you owe picks in twenty six and twenty eight with

(01:05:40):
very loose to no protection on them, oh my god,
Like what like imagine trading bam Adebayo not getting even
one of those back.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
And that's that's where you call Charlotte, I'm guessing, and
you're telling Charlotte, Okay, look, we want some of our
picks back. We want the twenty twenty six one two,
So like you get BAM if you get that pick
from okayc Like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
That's interesting, that's an interesting way to look at it. Yeah,
I don't know who they have that would get I
mean they.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Okay, see we'll give them the middle finger and go Look, Charlotte,
you have no one of interest to us.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Well if you so, let's say Charlotte might get a
top five pick. If you're Charlotte, would you give up
a top five pick to get Bam out of Bio.
You probably can't, right, Like, just at this point in
your rebuild or you're gonna do that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
I mean, no, I wouldn't, but for it seemed like them.
I also understand why they would look at BAM and
go that's a known commodity, like right to some extent.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
I guess the problem is is that so they have
that Miami Heat pick. But like, so, let's say, I
like what you said, go out and get our twenty
six first round pick. What do you have a value
to go get like to give the like, Okayse's not
gonna want LaMelo, I don't think. And at that point, like,
so we're moving LaMelo to get We'll keep our top
five pick this year and then rebuild around that. In BAM,
I don't with Brandon Miller, I don't know, you're materially.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Ller not No, because they have Jada, like man, the
Heat are I don't want to say they're screwed, but
this is this is not looking pretty No, it is not.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
I mean I think it's more likely that they end
up trading another first round pick than getting back both
of their own first round picks. I think that that's
pretty clear. So Joy, Joy, have you liked just because
any of the players, have you liked or any observ
like Jamie, I'm Mitchell has been hitting threes in Miami.
Maybe that's something like pimp try to find a silver lining.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Oh okay, no, no, But I will say that despite
the efficiency concerns from from Wickens, I do think he's
playing with more freedom than what we've seen. And that's said,
that's wild to say because he did play with a
lot of like open flair responsibility in Golden State. But
it seems like he's been given the ball and sort

(01:07:53):
of being trusted to make more decisions now and I'm
not hating the decision making process from him. So there's
something definitely encouraging here. As for Davion Mitchell, Yeah, look,
historically I've just seen too much of him like break
threes to the point where this is this is a
Josh giddy thing for me. Right now. He's on a

(01:08:15):
hot streak. He's on like on a you know, February
March hot streak. I'm not gonna go into the summer
thinking daviy On Mitchell is anything close to like a
good shooter. So this doesn't have any effect on me whatsoever.
And Kyle, I'll be completely honest with you, I haven't
even paid a lot of attention to Kyle, like I've
registered when he's been on the court, but I haven't

(01:08:37):
really like paid attention to him specifically, like oh, I'm
gonna watch Kyle Anderson right now. It's just like no,
I mean, never mad pity.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
He's playing like under fifteen minutes a game, so I
think you could be forgiven if you're not feeling him.
I just this team is I I don't love it offensively,
and I've seen a lot of people criticize Eric Bowelster
even more than normal. And if you're following the heat
on a day to day, probably have more of an
in tune there, but you know, criticizing him for not
adjusting enough down the stretch of games. Why aren't they

(01:09:05):
playing more zone defense as an example? And I just
I look at the personnel of them, and I'm wondering, like,
what are the adjustments that you want coach Spoe to hit.
I'm not saying he's been perfect, and you're probably, to
be fair, they are better built to make actual defensive
adjustments than offensive adjustments. But I view the offense as
just their crowning limitation right now. And I don't know
how he's supposed to adjust much there if it like

(01:09:28):
if at all.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
Yeah, good luck Miami Heat fans. At least Andrew Wickins
is playing decent right now until he's probably traded in
the offseason for something.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
The Milwaukee Bucks pulled off, probably just one of the
more controversial moves of the deadline. Incomes Kyle Kuzma. They
also got Jericho Samson, Kevin Porter Junior out goes AJ
Johnson and Chris Middleton. Thoughts feels impressions of the Milwaukee
Bucks and the Kyle Kuzma era.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
So this must have been a little bit better lately,
just in terms of like efficiency wise, he seems like
he's finding some of his spots offensively. And that's about
the end of the extent that I'll go to in
being complimentary, because I still don't think he plays within
the flow of the offense. I still think he's an
odd fit. I understand. I think they're logic, and we

(01:10:23):
wanted to get a player in who could carry forty
four forty five minutes per game as opposed to Chris,
who is the better player but can probably only play
about twenty three to twenty four minutes. So they were
looking just to squeeze out more talent in the minutes department.
I probably would have gone just with retaining Chris and

(01:10:43):
gone that route instead. And if had that had been
twenty three minutes per game, yeah, I probably would have
just gone with that instead. I don't think Kuzma is
adding to, you know, the the list of problem solvers there.
I understand that they played better recently Milwaukee, but I

(01:11:05):
also think that's because Jannis is Yannis and Dame is
still around. Like it's I don't put that at the
feet of Kyle Kusman. I am. I am struggling to
see the long term benefits here. I do think in
the playoffs, yes, it'll be nice to have an as
the big player who can produce, but he's not the
shooter that you need. And you need floor spacing for Giannis,

(01:11:26):
you need floor spacing for Dame. That's where a guy
like Chris Middleson still been good. So I get what
they were trying to do. I'm not a fan of
it yet, and I don't think I ever will be.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
He's been to me better defensively than I would have expected,
and so maybe that's okay. You hit the play better button,
the defend a better button. Excuse me, when you go
to Milwaukee from Washington, that was always on the table.
I think he's what's interesting, and Eric Name had pointed
this out, I think like a week or two ago,
having him and I guess to a lesser extent, well
not to a extent, but also Kevin Porter Junior. It

(01:12:02):
hasn't boldened Doc Rivers to change up his staggering patterns.
Where you've seen a little bit more of Dame and
Yannis being on the bench together so that you can
more firmly tether their minutes as a tandem. And the
Bucks have won the minutes that Kyle Kusma's played without
the both of them, and if they if you know
you mentioned, I do think Kyle Kuzma moved on, He's
moved off the ball, I think pretty well. But I
agree that is this someone who's ever you're gonna look
at an offensive flow and say he's a perfect fit

(01:12:24):
within it. So if you're separating him and he could
become more of a focal point and you're able to
like survive or tread water during those minutes, it becomes
a big deal. I still think, and I'm not saying
that had they not made any of these moves, I
would have felt the same. I just don't trust this team. Yet.
The defense has been a lot better overall. They have

(01:12:44):
these like they can go to this jumbo size lineup
now with Kuzma and Prince and Giannis and then uh
Brook Lopez and so you could play that with Dame.
But the offense is just it feels like it should
be better than this, and I think that it comes
down to look honest, hit in the mid rangers. I
think that's also opened up more of his playmaking. But
you need another kind of I'll use the word traditional

(01:13:07):
or conventional initiator. Aside from Dame, Chris Middleton for even
twenty twenty five minutes a game was your best shot
at having that. And I wonder if it's going to
potentially break them in the playoffs, just because their crunch
time offense is still not great. Their fourth quarter offense
overall on the year is still not good, and you
can see just slip ups if like their situations where

(01:13:30):
should there have been a pass there, there's turnovers that
could have been avoided. I just don't trust them, and
I don't know, actually don't know how much of criticism
though that is at this point because I don't know
that having Chris Middleton, yeah, would have made me trust
them in certain situations more. Would I've trusted Chris Middleton
to be healthier the Bucks to get to those situations.
I don't know they've been I'll say this, I'm probably

(01:13:52):
a little bit more optimistic about what they did at
the deadline than I was at the time. But I
don't think it's been enough to say that it's moved
the needle from me to be like, oh, I definitively
trust them more than New York and Indiana and in
Detroit for that matter.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
And then there's another pattern emerging that has me concerned.
Last year they had Malik Beasley, didn't unleash him in
any way, didn't find any greater ways to get him open.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
You know, he I think, pardon I said he made
shots anyway, though he did, but like you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
Didn't, like they failed at getting him the ball enough
or getting him enough shots. Now we're seeing that kind
of get copied over with Gary Trent Junior as well,
someone who is in a similar role, Like I think
Milwaukee is not emphasizing, prioritizing whatever you want to call it.
Shooters enough because that's where you get additional points, that's

(01:14:46):
where you get optimized four spacing, that's where you get,
especially in playoff contexts, those crucial, like I said before,
extra points, and if they just cannot figure out how
to those two guards involved more to actually lift up
their offensive responsibility, then you're going to have a lot

(01:15:09):
of time where you're playing four on five basketball offensively,
which Giannis is a superhero, Dame is still Dame, but
those are odds that you're just not gonna win with
in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
I'm curious too whether, like what do you think ends
up being their best five man unit? And I think
four of the spots are kind of set in stone
by default, but would you do you like seeing Torrian
Prince kind of that jumbosales lineup, or do you think
that they should lend themselves to more. Maybe it's Aj
Green or Gary Trent Junior who has played well since
a very poor start to the season.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Yeah, yeah, so definitely someone who has the potential to
go off, because I think that's where the fear is
from other teams, right Like, even if you have a
stable shooter. That's why I never went fully in on
the PJ. Tucker train. Like, here's the thing. I know
he on a title.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
I know, but he's about to save the Knicks too,
so you buy your.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
But like you always knew he was not gonna pop
off for fifteen or twenty or twenty five, Like that
was just not that was never in the cards. So
I would say that last final member of that lineup
has to be someone who can put the fear of
God into the opponents. Be that as a shooter, be
that as a slasher, I don't care. Just someone who

(01:16:28):
where teams know, oh in this random ass game for
this guy can go off for twenty five. He can
create stuff. He can get something going which allows Giannis,
which allows Dame to play off of that. Who is
that guy? Is that Aj Green? I'm not sure? Is
it Gary Trent theoretically, but like I don't know if

(01:16:49):
I trust the Bucks in finding out how to use
Gary Trent to the direct way.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
I think he's been really good and he's my answer.
I want to like the jumbo size lineup with Tory
and Prince, and they've done just enough offensively, but there's
still just a lack of three point shooting there. That
unit is sub thirty five percent, and when you have
Damian Lillod and Brook Lopez as part of that unit,
that is that's concerning. So I think the answer is
Gary Trent. And I was looking before we started recording

(01:17:17):
this that lineup, so like Kuzma, Lopez, Giannis and Dame
with Gary Trent has played five possessions since the trade deadline.
It's just like that's I'm just surprised they haven't gone
to it more.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Yeah, I that number actually blows me away. Yeah, that's wild.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
So I think that's gonna end up being the answer.
But I will say I, like you mentioned, I think
at the top, this is what it comes back to
before we move on. They did acquire someone who, in
theory will just eat more minutes even in the postseason,
like you trust him to be more durable there, and
we'll see. That's the gamble it feels like they made
and we'll have to see whether it pays off. Shout
out to Jericho Sims though true superstar of this of

(01:17:57):
their trade deadline the Philadelphia we already talked Quentin Grimes.
They have Quentin Grimes. They got Jared Butler as well,
then they lost Caleb Martin and kJ Martin were the
most notable subtractions in their effort to duck the tax.
And it like looks better just because Quentin Grimes has
been really good. But the season is gone so off
the rails. I you know, we know what we feel

(01:18:20):
about Quentin Grimes. I'm curious just the stuff we're seeing
from him on offense. How much value does it have
if the plan is eventually to have Joel Embiid and
Paul George and Tyres Maxe next year. But for sure
I think that he's He's someone who fits more next
to those guys than Jared McCain is going to just
because Jared McCain and Tyre's Maxie could end up being
like real defensive problems together in the back court.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
I agree. I don't know what to add to that.
The Sixers right now are just in such disarray. I
did an hour with Keith Smith on just their situation,
where we basically after an hour just kind of just
raise our shoulders a little bit, where like, fuck if
I know, like this team is just it's so out there.

(01:19:03):
We can sit here and talk all day long about
how Quentin Grimes has looked and he's looked amazing. By
the way, I fully fully support that trade. I have
no idea where they go from here, Like Jared Butler
has played well as well, and that is, after all,
who the two guys that we have to talk about
right now, but like right now is just putting lipstick
on a pick, right, It's just you have no idea

(01:19:25):
where this team is going long term. The injury patterns
are severe. They're probably probably gonna shut down PG pretty soon,
which they probably should have done some time ago. Everything
is bleak. So I guess good on them that they
found a Quinton Rhymes like Tyre's Maxi Quinton Rhymes and
Jared McCain as like your future three guard lineup. I

(01:19:48):
don't hate that. That's got some juice, plus making your
draft pick, plus your draft pick, But then you have
the Paul George and joeln Bee contracts where I'm just like,
fuck if I know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
I think if you could tell me that you can
get like fifty games of Joel Embiid next year and
he'll be even what we've seen in the playoffs before.
So I'm not even saying getting peak Joel in the playoffs.
I really am not as low on the six er
future as everybody else. I don't think the Paul George
contract is gonna, you know, devolve into maybe this offseason.
But there's a way, like, remember Chris Paul, how poorly

(01:20:23):
that contract was you before he was traded to Oklahoma City,
Like Houston had to compensate Oklahoma City as part of
that Russell Westbrook trade. Like Paul George is plugging play
enough that if you had healthier talent around him, Like,
I just don't think. I think the criticisms have been
largely fair. I also think they've been exaggerated because of
just how melt much else has gone wrong in Philly.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Well, I think part of it is also he got
a freaking player option. Who were they negotiating against here?
Who were they bidding against?

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
Like to me that it was the Warriors trying to
figure something out. Then the Nuggets try and get involved there.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Yeah, well, I mean then you let them have it then,
because that player option is going to be that was
such an unnecessary inclusion, And I think that's where people,
especially Philly fans, are like, like, what are we gonna
do with here? Because if he was going to enter
this summer and then he had two years left you
sort of like if you squint, you can sort of

(01:21:22):
see the light at the end of the sunnel there,
Like one year later, you can actually flip him as
an expiring if that's what you wanted to do in
some capacity, break that deal up in whatever means.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
The fact that it goes to twenty eight though, that
is nasty business. Yeah, so yes, especially given what we
know now. But like that was kind of a cost
of poaching him in free agency. And I think I'll
speak for myself here. We lauded the Sixers for their
even the Caleb Martin side, Like we thought they were

(01:21:54):
creative and they had a hell of an offseason and
it's yeah, you could have seen this stuff. I guess
turning in this direction because we all know about the
Joel and beat injury risk, we all know about how
agent curves work in general with players, I just like,
I don't know. I guess I don't fault them, like
you then have to fault the plan to just build
around Joel Embiad in general, I guess, is my point.

(01:22:16):
And if that's where we were at last year, like,
if that's the stance you had, like then totally fine.
But as of right now, like, yeah, the Paul George
contract looks worse, and I think everyone we acknowledge this.
I'm sure you did. Like the latter two years were
always gonna be iffy, probably, and it looks worse now
because you've burned just one of the two good years
to guaranteed years you thought you were gonna get. I

(01:22:38):
just I don't think they're in this. The way they're
in an navigable situation is if Joel Embiid is just cooked,
and that would have always been where they're going to
end up, regardless of whether they didn't give Paul George
a player option or not.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
No, So those are two those are two distinct conversations.
I agree with you. I like em bed signed a
three year, one hundred and ninety million, one hundred ninety
three million dollar extension last fall, which was also when
we heard of that. I remember my first thought being
that was optimistic, Like I thought they wanted to see

(01:23:15):
more of him this year before they made that call,
Like he was obviously pushing for that money. So I
also understand not wanting to piss off your star. So
there are some politics involved there, But like I was
never a fan of the Paul George contract. Like I
understood the logic behind it, as you said, you had
to go do something if you're the Sixers, you had to.
But I also thought Darren Moriych chose a really weird

(01:23:37):
summer to clear all that cap space because there weren't
a lot of options out there, like free agency is
in many ways not what it used to be. And
for him to go out in the market where you
could make an argument that Paul George at least unrestricted
rice and was viewed as one of the main guys

(01:23:58):
that to me was always associated with a great, great
level of risk, and considering the amount of risk you
already had in Joel just being Joel with his in
in his injury history, I thought it was a little irresponsible.
But I'm also Danish, like I'm wearing seatbelts on everything, Okay,

(01:24:21):
I'm most for safety.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
Well you could, Yeah, last summer wasn't the summer to
have cap space, But we would have said the same
thing about this summer, like where was what summer were
they supposed to choose?

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
Well, maybe they should have chosen that direction, then maybe
they should have done something else.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Which then makes the Cardinals saying, could they have done
anything differently in the James Harden trade, and that's tough
because it seems like they were dealing with the market
of one.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
Team yep, ironically a deal I also did not like
when they made it, But like I hear you, I
just think they've been in a very tough situation for
a while now, and I don't think they've made life
easier for themselves, is basically my point. I don't think
they Their course of events over the past year and

(01:25:05):
a half has just not filled me at any point
with confidence.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
And I think that's fair. I think the Joelle embiid
the lack of transparency behind how they were handling him,
because it's easy for us to say they should have
shut him down like well before they did, which that's
probably the case, but just the lack of transparency behind
what they were doing a failure, and then their reaction
even to that failure of just like it is wildly
unspectacular that kJ Martin, who you signed to be a

(01:25:33):
human trade exception to get you someone you then had
to like attached stuff to to dump in service of
ducking attacks the Caleb Martin situation, I thought that was
a good signing. He has that hip injury. Do you
ding them for that or then give them kudos for
figuring out how to get Quentin Grimes out of the
Kleb Martin contract. It's really all over the place, and
it feels like there's paths not traveled. I guess with

(01:25:54):
James Harden, but it feels like this all comes back
to if your impressions of the seventy six ers are down,
it's the fact that they elected to hitch their wagon
too Joel Embiid, and I think that, like the hesitance
over the extension is Yeah, sure, I totally agree with you,
because they have played hardball and said, let's see what
you do this season before we go that direction. I

(01:26:14):
just don't know if Joel Embiid was their present and future.
I just don't know what else was the more appealing path.
It felt like they would have needed to have done
something even more nuclear, which I think would have been
unrealistic to expect any executive controlling the Sixers to do. Well.

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
Yeah, I think that's very reasonable. I do remember last
summer I race this point to our mutual friend Ryan Supporik.
I don't remember if I did it on a podcast
or I did it privately what I did race like
the question of should the Sixers actually pivot towards like
building more actively around Maxi instead and that like in

(01:26:52):
a way where Embiaid is still featured, what in a
way where you don't structure everything around him. But that again,
like hindsight is twenty twenty, right, Like I'm not gonna
see if you're in and say, oh, Darryl Mory is
a bad general manager because A, B and C.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
Like No, I just well not. But I do think
what's fair though about the way you're looking at it
as it was? Definitely if you're it's if you're concerned
about Joel Embiid's career moving forward, that's not a novel concern,
Like you could have very well felt this way like
a year and a half too, like four years ago,

(01:27:28):
even like he was not that he was always a
taking time bombe, but there was always that level of
risk there. I just don't know what if the answer
was moved Joel Embiid sooner, do you think that they're
maybe because he has the injury history. No, But if
you would have traded Joel Embiid like two years, like
coming off the MVP season, wouldn't the reaction have been
similar to what Dallas fans were doing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
Well, I mean yes and no, because I think even
at that point people were very much aware of the history.
I think I even pitched that at one point on
the plot.

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
And also, although rebuilding is not really his style, but
like you would think that Daryl Morey might have had
more of the foresight to be like, well, we're not
going to target like players and hopes to get better.
We're going to rebuild this thing from the ground up
more appropriately. So I don't have gone he.

Speaker 2 (01:28:17):
Should have gone after Cyclovine though. That was one of
the things I said last summer before like with the
cap Space, because at that point in time, we know
that the Levine was talked about, as you know, a
bad contract, and I basically made the assumption that if
Philly called up Chicaguin said well we'll take him into
cap Space, interesting, that would have been something I think

(01:28:39):
that would have beaten the alternative.

Speaker 1 (01:28:42):
That's an interesting road not traveled direction because it's it's okay, Well,
then how does that impact the rest of their offseason?
How does that affect that Jared McCain breakout to where
I know he had an injury. But if you have
zach Leen, do you know how Jared McCain is this
asset either on your team or as a trade chip
like viewed it's that's fascinating, But you are I do
think that I think you can say, even in the moment,

(01:29:02):
would have been the debate between would you rather just
take Zach Lavine give Paul George the fourth year? That
would have been a real debate in real time, So
that that's definitely fair to say. Our next team. Speaking
of teams that confuse the ever live in hell out
of me, the Sacramento Kings. They got Zack Lavine, Jonas Valentcunis,
and Ja Laurabia, all of whom, by the way, have

(01:29:24):
been super helpful to them. No misses there they lose
dearon Fox Kevin Herder, zach Lavine's been balling. Is what
is he up to ninety seven percent shooting from three
in Sacramento?

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
Is that he's he's at fifty forty ninety since becoming
a King.

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Yeah, he's been great. The Kings overall, they've they're dealing
with the domas a bonus injury is kind of a bummer.
He did look a little I don't want to say
out of sorts, but like he was trying to figure
out his place within kind of the new offensive world
order Sacramento. As ever, you look at the Vitals and
they're like, all right, seventh in offense, eleventh in defense,
and they're eight and four since the trade deadline. Malik

(01:30:04):
Monk has been meh since then, Keith and Murray's hitting
his three since then, DeMar deroz In shooting forty percent
from three on nearly five attempts per game since the
trade deadline. Jake Laavia causes like a special kind of
bedroom defensively when he's on the court, and I fucking
love it. And I still just look at this team
moving forward and I'm just I don't like anything. I

(01:30:25):
shouldn't say that. I like Zach Lavine there, I like
del Masa Bonis there. I love Keith and Murray. I
just don't feel I mean, we all know how I
feel about Keon Ellis too. There's just a lot of
individual players and developments that have happened that should make
you feel good, and I just don't feel good about
the Sacramento Kings' future. Can you explain? Can you reason it?

(01:30:45):
For me.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
So I think the biggest issue here is so I'm
actually for years, like Lavina has obviously been a talking
point for years because of the trade chatter and whatnot.
Like I just mentioned earlier about six or example, that
I wanted to send him there, there was a point
in time where I also wanted to send him to Sacramento,
not in at Iron Fox deal, because the idea would

(01:31:08):
be to pair him with the Iron Fox. So I
think the Kings are actually pretty close to having a
very interesting, dynamic product now. They just need a quote
unquote real point guard. What I mean by that is, yeah,
you can hide Malik Monk as a pseudo point guard
only for so long. You can also run the offense
through some bonus sure, but you need someone to initiate

(01:31:30):
actions at a great, great level on the perimeter from
someone who's just not on the roster. With all due
respect to Mark kill Folds, if there is a guy
out there who you can sort of implement on that team.

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
Oh, they're gonna go back to the bulls. Well for
Kobe White, they're just let's just keep saying you're gonna
hate this, and it's fair, but.

Speaker 2 (01:31:56):
Just just give me a chance to go to explain
this one. Okay, Ties Jones, so why is that? Come on,
like that's not a big name, Like, come on, that's
all right. But I'm glad, I'm glad you were with
me on this one. Fine Ties Jones, a past first
point guard, who's low turnover, who sets the tone, who

(01:32:20):
is a much better shooter than people seem to realize.
There's a guy who you can reasonably expect to get,
I believe, financially speaking, who can be installed as your
starter right off the bat. So you have him, Saclovin
is running off of him. Sabonus is your secondary creator.

(01:32:42):
You have a league mong as you're Super six man.
I think there's something there that grows within that unit.
Because I agree with you right now, everything is like
good player here, good player there, good player everywhere, without
every any type of cohesion. Ties Jones is the glue.
He is the cohesion connector. I think there's a there

(01:33:03):
is a solution to this if you get a guy
like that in there who can sort of just calm
everyone that fucked down and run the show. Now, am
I gonna say that they're gonna be a championship considered? No?
Am I gonna say that they should still consider training
demardin Rosen, Absolutely, but that would go a long way

(01:33:25):
in getting these Kings to a place where it replaces
individuality with cohesion. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:33:32):
You know, one of my stances had been I feel
like they have two major If we entered this season,
they had two major holes to fill where it was like,
you need kind of another more dynamic type of player
on the wing or that you can play next to
the bonus, particularly on defense, and then you needed like
I was probably gonna say, like a backup big. And
now if you fast forward after the trade deadline, you

(01:33:54):
keep that front line wing thing, and it's they kind
of need a floor general because I just don't think
Malik Monk was the answer, and that they're offense I
think in the regular season can get by, but when
you look at them at full strength, I think they
have four players in DeRozan, Monks, Sabonis, and Levigne who
you feel great about if they are your second best playmaker,
as your first best playmaker not so great. And maybe

(01:34:15):
you would have felt the same way with Diron Fox too.
That's that's fair, but I feel comfortable enough based off Okay,
now you have Jonus Valanciunas with Keegan Murray, with Keon Ellis,
with Jake Laavia. If you figure out a way to
keep him, I know they're liminited what they could offer.
It does feel like they might be all right. The
addition of an actual floor general away from being something special.

(01:34:35):
The thing that I would disagree with is I think
that player needs to be appreciably better than a Tias
Jones to get that.

Speaker 2 (01:34:45):
That's why I knew you were gonna hate it. I
know you're not hating.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
If you're trying to look at how do we make
this team better without giving up anyone? Like they what
is Sacramento, Like twenty five million dollars under the tax
next year, they'll be able to get Tyas Jones without
bust like whatever version of the mid level or however
the like he's not even gonna be with the season
he's had in Phoenix. I don't even know if he's
gonna get Maybe he'll get mini mid level money. I
don't think he's gonna get the full non tax players
mid level from anybody. So that's like a like a

(01:35:14):
pretty good situation to be in, I guess, but I
just don't think that them using what flexibility they have
for free agents, and maybe keeping La Rabia is gonna
necessarily get them there. And it feels like it needs
to be like I'm looking at what can I attach to,
preferably Derozen, but maybe Malik Monk and then go out
and get more of a higher end option. The problem

(01:35:35):
is what is the name? Like, I don't think Colin
Sexton's not gonna do it, Like that's too too Malik
Monk adjacent there for sure, Trey Young on this team
would be just a disaster defensively for them. So what
name is gonna become available? That kind of Kobe White?
I think you need a better playmaker than that. And
please I made a joke before, but do not go

(01:35:55):
back to the bulls well kings, like we've seen enough
of that and that would be like will LaMelo ball?
Like that's probably too big of a swing. And then
you're worrying about like the defense there as well, though, like.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
How do you even get him? Though? That's the thing right, Well, I.

Speaker 1 (01:36:08):
Think if you were willing to move Monk and de
Rosen and picks like, you can get a lot of
interesting salary matching material there. But there needs to be
a realistic name and to that, which is why it
bugs me because you said it at the top, like
dearon Fox on this team right now instead of Jamata Rosenen,
like it would be super interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:36:28):
I guess that's that's the one. That is the one.
Like seriously, I have had and at least five hours
collectively on the Danish podcast talking about Fox Lavine some
bonus as the primary trio with Keith and Murray playing
like a fourth option, that would rule. That would be

(01:36:48):
the funnest team in the NBA to watch on a
night to night basis.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
So I have a couple of questions, just as like
theoretical names, none of which I'm endorsing, which is why
up does he could be a free agent? Could happen
via trade? Does Fred van Fleet do anything for you
on this scene?

Speaker 2 (01:37:05):
Yeah, he's he's a table center. What I would be
concerned about is his offensive efficiency, which historically has been
not great. So like, but is that on a team
where that effect is minimized? I would argue yes, like
if he can come in and just kind of focus

(01:37:25):
on taking the spot up threes, you know, being the
point of attack defender, playing primary playmaker on the perimeter
at least. Yeah, that does a lot for me. I
don't hate that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:38):
Should they be a team if he becomes available again,
if John Moramp becomes available, should they be an Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:37:44):
Of course, of course. Again it depends on what you
should give up, like you, you have to have an
idea of one time of team you have afterwards. Like again,
I think what the Kings needs to do right now
is at least stick with the Lavigne uh Se Bonus
pairing and say, okay, what can we add to those
two to enhance them as a unit and actually add

(01:38:06):
to it, because if you break those two up as well,
he's kind of starting a little bit over. Like you
need an off ball wizzard like Levine, you really do
the way that he just bend's defenses. That is the key.
So if you get a guy like jam Moran in
there and you actually retain Levine and you retain some
bonus that that's a fun team. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:28):
Two more names for you, all right. This one's a
free agent who in theory they could probably afford. I
don't know if he'd want to play for them, Chris Paul.

Speaker 2 (01:38:36):
Oh, that'd be fun. Yeah, I would say yes. To
that too, because even though he's on, you know it's
gonna be forty right in a couple of weeks. That's
a table setter. Like he's basically an older version of
Tis Jones at this point, just more seasoned and more determined.
So yeah, I don't hate that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:57):
I don't know if they would trade him this offseason,
but I I wouldn't call him untouchable Andrew Nemhard.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
Is he a point guard?

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
Though I think he can be. I would have questions
about if I'm trying to up the quality of assaying
from Malik Monk and even de Rosen. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
I'm gonna say no because we don't know that, Like,
that's that's too risky for me.

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
So I'll throw another name out there. Then then I
let's just say this team flames out in the playoffs
and maybe someone else requests a trade and that leads
to this.

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
But oh, you're gonna throw Dennis Schroeder at me right now? Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:39:30):
No, I said he wasn't a free agent. Oh sorry,
Damian Lillard?

Speaker 2 (01:39:37):
Oh man, I mean yes, I think that's a lot
of shots though, But like if bonus is if it's
a bonus Lavine and and Dame as your big three
bonus is not a hungry shot taker, No, you can.

(01:39:58):
You can probably absorb that and the dripple handoff actions
for some bonus with both Levine and Dame on the floor. Yeah,
you know what, I'm rolling the dice on that for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:40:12):
Yeah. It's my favorite fit, by the way, would be
Damian Lillard if things go bad in Milwaukee, which I
don't know that I expect him too, but that's my
favorite one. Grip Paul would be funny though, if they
signed him just because they then facilitated like his exit
from San Antonio, be like, well they have dearon Fox
and Steph Castle the word like he's not going back there.

Speaker 2 (01:40:30):
I the thing one is fun I like that he's older,
but like that seems also kind of built to.

Speaker 1 (01:40:36):
But then if you have some then if you have
Sabonis and Levine, like you're built to kind of right,
you're expensive with those three, but like not for a
long time when you look at the length of the
Lillard and Levine contracts, but like that team is then
built inferior at least with Sabonis and Levine to kind
of let Damian Lillard I would say age more gracefully
than Milwaukee even Ken at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:40:57):
Right, and if memory is sure, just gonna double check
Lavine is extension eligible next this summer, so you can
even lock him in at a lower number.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
So you get him to decline. You're saying, decline his
player option to lower that twenty six number.

Speaker 2 (01:41:17):
Yeah, like you have to.

Speaker 1 (01:41:18):
You have to make with Minnesota this year.

Speaker 2 (01:41:21):
Right, exactly, like you make up for it in years.

Speaker 1 (01:41:25):
That'd be really smart. Isn't Dame extension eligible this summer too?
Couldn't he do the same thing?

Speaker 2 (01:41:29):
Let me just check.

Speaker 1 (01:41:30):
You have to look, maybe I'm wrong on my that
was off the cuff there, but I mean he.

Speaker 2 (01:41:34):
Will It doesn't wow spot track. It doesn't even say.

Speaker 1 (01:41:39):
Well, he could just not be extension older then I
thought he would be. But I might be wrong there regardless.
I mean, if Levine's enough to balance out the long
term books, if you extend one of them, right and there,
by the way, there will be pressure. This is not traup.
We know we haven't spent a ton of time on
the trade deadline like Lavini. Well we talked about Levin
though they've and they by the way, they vought like
Yona sound Chun. It's like they've all had he and

(01:42:00):
Jake Laavia. I look, if you're the Kings, not that
you need to keep him, but like you hope he
doesn't command more than his team option money. I don't
think he will, because I think he like he can
be really good for them. He's not hitting his threes
at the clip he was when he was as I'm
choking here, as he was before the trade deadline, but like,
that's someone who could be like, between him and Ellis
and Murray, you might just have enough perimeter defense cobbled together.

(01:42:21):
And by the way, I haven't even mentioned Devin Carter.

Speaker 2 (01:42:23):
I was just about to say, yeah, there's Devin Carter
who's probably gonna have a good year next year.

Speaker 1 (01:42:28):
Do you think he's just got you're just penciling him
for a good year next year.

Speaker 2 (01:42:31):
I thought very very highly off him as a prospect
as well well.

Speaker 1 (01:42:35):
And I yeah, I will say if you feel that
way internally, like not not just you, but the King's organization,
you should have less pause about getting rid of one
or both of DeRozan and Malik Monk in service of
the type of upgrades that we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:42:48):
Agreed.

Speaker 1 (01:42:49):
Let's move on to I'll give you ownership of this team,
your San Antonio Spurs. I will say I think their
biggest trade deadline act position, Yes, they got darn Fox,
you get rid of Trade Jones, Zach Collins. I feel
like their biggest trade deadline acquisition was Steph Castle's shot making.

Speaker 2 (01:43:08):
Yeah, right, my god. That look. I don't want to
spend too much time on this team. This was just
we called it at the time. Great trade Fox. Yeah,
like his percentage just a down a little bit. He's
also playing with Yeah, as you can if you're watching
this on YouTube, you can see it on the Spinker

(01:43:31):
dislocated right if memory serves like he's even considering some surgery,
I believe. But even if you shut him down for
the rest of the season, this trade is still a
plus because that's not a long term issue thing. He
can come back fully healthy next year with a full
training camp under his belt, with Wempy healthy, hopefully knock

(01:43:53):
on Wood, everything goes smoothly there. They'll have draft picks,
they'll have optionality in free agent and see or just
on the trade market. I don't hate it. This is
what they've done right now is they've stayed the course.
They didn't over invest in Tierrean Fox, like you said previously, Dan,
like they didn't give up a ton for him. This

(01:44:15):
was a very modest return for Tiaron Fox.

Speaker 1 (01:44:19):
Do you, and I know you wrote about this, which
is why I'm asking you, do you have any level
of concern about the way that Darn Fox has like
made shots or not made shots while he's in Sanate
during his time in San Antonio.

Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
Not concerned whatsoever yet. I mean this, This guy has
just spent what seven and a half years, eight and
a half, seven and a half, seven and a half
years in Sacramento, so he was kind of uprooting his
entire life. He came from an organization that we didn't
even cover that with the Kings before, which we probably
should have. Like the ownership situation and like the order

(01:44:59):
of power therein is super odd and super weird. So
for him to come to an organization that, for all
intents and purposes, is way more streamlined, professional, whatever you
want to call it, that is going to take an adjustment.
That's going to be an adjustment for him not having
to look over his shoulder and think what likes the
owner's daughter all of a sudden going to have influence

(01:45:20):
on roster decisions. Like so, I'm just not worried about
him right now, as well as the injury, like Wemby
went out so shortly after his arrival too, that I
think he was sort of like having to adjust to
that on the fly because he was just getting used
to playing with a seven to four guy who is
the most unique big man arguably in NBA history, and

(01:45:44):
all of a sudden instead it's like, oh, hi, bismcbiumbo,
who I now have to play with. That's that's an
adjustment as well, right, So, I'm not worried, not nervous.

Speaker 1 (01:45:55):
I'm with you too. I think it's a lot just
some of the threes are going to start to fall,
Like the quality of threes like that he's been missing.
I think those are, even by his own shooting standards,
will fall. He's actually shot almost forty excuse me, almost
fifty percent from mid range in San Antonio. That's fine.
If you were to be concerned about anything, it'd be
the finishing at the rim. But I think you just
laid out in part why that is on the decline,
like the spacing elements, like even if Sacramento floor balance

(01:46:18):
wasn't perfect. He has familiarity there, and then just it
probably was better floor balance than you're seeing in a
lot of the lineups in San Antonio. The thing that
I guess does worry me is like the minutes he's
played without Wemby have just been a disaster. But again
the lack of familiarity there. The offense at least creeps
close to league average during those minutes, and you could
look at some of the you know, like the most

(01:46:40):
used combinations where it's okay, he's playing with Castle and
Champagne and Keldon Johnson and so hands at the five
in those minutes, or you're playing with Byambo and Chris Paul,
so you're like an off guard, but the spacing is
all sort of off. I'm not too too worried, but
that is like, even regardless of what you gave up
to get him, because he's making so much money, the
idea should be that we have someone to float us

(01:47:00):
finally in the non Wemby minutes, and we don't necessarily
have evidence of that. Again, the sample size is so
small that you could chalk it up, but that will
be something that especially after he gets to go through
a training camp with them, like I'm gonna monitor that
like a hawk.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
Yeah that's fair. I mean again, also the finker is
on his shooting hand, Like I'm not gonna put that
aside and say, oh that doesn't matter, Like that obviously matter.

Speaker 1 (01:47:24):
There's three point shooting specifically when you're talking about that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:27):
Yeah, yeah, Like I'm just not worried about that. I
get the finishing though. That's a fair point. Yeah, I
look that this roster minus Wemby, Like if you just
isolate the Aaron Fox and just puts him outside the
window for a second, it's not it's not fantastic. Like
Devin the Cell has struggled mightily this year compared to

(01:47:49):
last year. This has not been a good year for you.
Like Harrison Barnes love him. Still a bit on the
older side, like definitely a fifth ops in a starting lineup.
So hand has made some major improvements, but has been
in the in and out of the lineup like constantly.
He's this year, he's just been picking up injury after

(01:48:11):
injury after injury. I'm not sure what the fuck is
going on with Calton Johnson. That's also been a weird
year for him. So like there are some issues that
the Spurs have to clean up with worth the summer. Like,
I don't think Calton Johnson is back next year. I
think he's gonna get moved. I'm not sure what other
moves they're gonna make are. They're basically going to say, look, Jeremy,

(01:48:33):
so hang, you're gonna get another year. They're gonna sell
you're gonna get another year, Like let's have some level
of patience here. But a guy like Calton Johnson, I
would be pretty surprised if he's back. So we'll see.
It's basically my my end point here. I think we're
gonna see a drastically different foster coming up.

Speaker 1 (01:48:49):
Back then, yeah, I thought Vacell was gonna have an
easier time kind of fitting into the New World Order,
and that'll be some like he's getting less shots ever
since the trade, Like the usage just changes when you're
integrating someone like the Aaron Fox and you're worried obviously
about Steph Castle. But I would have made the trade
that's like, oh yeah, I'm out of ten thing. But
if you were hoping that this was going to be
more of a seamless transition, I think both with him
without Wemby then it's been a little bit disappointing by

(01:49:12):
that regard.

Speaker 2 (01:49:12):
Well, it's it's more than that, So I you know obviously,
you know me, I watch way too much Wemby. So
Bassell has been on my radar a lot over the
past two years. And what has changed this year is
his lack of willingness to take tough shots. So last
year he was one of the best tough shots makers
in the NBA. This year he's sort of like not

(01:49:36):
even dared. It's like when he's coming off the initial
screen and he's drippling into like the mid range area.
Before if he had a seven to one guy just
rushing out at him, last year, he would shoot that
that boy, and he would actually hit it at a
pretty good clip. This year, he's like hesitating. He's passing
even like semi open shots that he wouldn't even think

(01:49:58):
about twice last year. He's passing up like this is
the season to forget for him. Next year, if they
retain him, it has to be with a different mindset.
If he pulls this level of season again, they're gonna
have to make a very different call on him.

Speaker 1 (01:50:15):
Yeah, that's fair and just I think spending. I think
some of the tough shot making too. If you look,
he's probably spent more time off the ball, and I
wonder how much of that impacts them there. But this team,
I still think just the bones of it. When you
have Fox and Bissell and Wemby and Castle, of course,
like there's really something there and you might have we'll
see where they land, Like they have Atlanta's pick this year.
They have their own pick still this year. Yeah, they

(01:50:37):
have their own and then I mean if they want,
they can make stuff happen on the trade market. And
they're they're still far enough beneath the luxury tax that
they could they'll have like a mid level exception that
they could use. They're like almost yeah, they're forty almost
forty five million under the tax. Next year's like maybe
they get someone good with a non tax payer mid
level and as we just saw with Fox, they have
someone who everybody apparently wants to play with.

Speaker 2 (01:50:58):
Yeah. I mean, look, it's funny because we're sitting here
talking about, oh, yeah, they have these options, like theories
have chance that they over the next what eighteen games
for how many of games they have left of the season,
they just go completely into the basement and they move
up the draft ranks, like this could be a team

(01:51:19):
that walks away with Cooper Flag or a Dylan Harper
or in Ace Bailey or in VJ. Edgecombe, Like that's preposterous.

Speaker 1 (01:51:28):
Yeah, I mean that if they end up winning the lottery,
that'll be.

Speaker 2 (01:51:32):
Oh, that's it, that's it. Just like sixteen franchises just
just full. I think the next time year.

Speaker 1 (01:51:39):
They shoot into the top four, that just becomes like,
oh shit, yeah, all right. You wanted to talk about
this team, the Phoenix Suns, owners of the NBA's worst defense,
uh since the trade deadline. Nick Richards shoot almost seventy
percent from the floor. They have Cody Martin, Vasa Msich,
They got rid of use of Nurkic and Josha Koge.

(01:51:59):
We all know about that first round pick trade twenty
thirty one to Utah for three less favorable first round picks.
What like, yeah, what are your thoughts on this team?
Prost trade deadline?

Speaker 2 (01:52:11):
More so I wanted to trade. I wanted to talk
about them solely because Nick Richards was a pred trade
deadline deal. Like, he wasn't traded near the trade deadline.
He was like Luka Doncic timing guy. He's been playing well.
Like these Sons have been grotesquely disappointing this year, but

(01:52:32):
we at least got to give them credit for identifying accurately.
So Nick Richards getting him into the fold, He's played well.
I've really enjoyed watching him play. Like, yes, the numbers
are you know, ten points, nine and a half rebounds,
so it's not like it's all star caliber numbers or anything,
but you can tell that the motivation level of just

(01:52:56):
getting out of Charlotte was huge. Like he's he's in,
He's like involved in every single play. He's way more focused.
I just love how he's looked there. Unfortunately, the rest
of the roster, for whatever reason that we probably won't
really know, has not found a way to win games.

(01:53:17):
That's obviously tough, but I'm just gonna want to I
want to give Nick Richards his flowers. I think he deserves.

Speaker 1 (01:53:24):
Fair does not make a difference because this team is
depressing as hell, and even more depressing Cody Martin has
never even played for them because of a abdominal injury,
which I'm just gonna blame that on the Suns too,
even though he clearly did not suffer it with the team.
Shout out con Gillespie, though he's had some good minutes
for them. No, you're just staring at me like I'm
an idiot, not a Congoleespie fan might have saved their

(01:53:46):
their season in future.

Speaker 2 (01:53:47):
No, look, if we're at that point, then then we
know shit hit the fan.

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
Well, well let me fix this the hell's going on there?
Well that was fun? Would you be able to tell
our fine listeners and viewers subscribers in general, they can

(01:54:27):
find you more than all the fantastic work that you do.

Speaker 2 (01:54:30):
Absolutely, you can find me over at Blue Sky, at
msj n b A. If you want to go find
my articles, you can find them over at Yahoo Sports
or at four. So I'm taking a break from SI
these days. If you speak Danish, you can go catch
Buzzer Beater, or you can go to the NPA podcast

(01:54:51):
if you are a native English speaker instead.

Speaker 1 (01:54:57):
I ego everything he said more does great work, does
a fantas that's a job covering the entirely. You have
a Danish word for me of Dan.

Speaker 2 (01:55:03):
Learns dangers and I've even added props.

Speaker 1 (01:55:08):
Oh, he's got props. If you're watching on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (01:55:11):
That is a spoon, that is indeed a spoon, and
that is called eski eskapek s k e skate sk
skate ski.

Speaker 2 (01:55:23):
There we go. That was a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:55:25):
So it's like, is it it's skate? I still like
Nihilis sucks the beck.

Speaker 2 (01:55:31):
I'm so amazed that that's the one you remember. I
thought for sure that was the most complicated one, and you're.

Speaker 1 (01:55:36):
Like, yeah, incompetent, Like, isn't that incompetent?

Speaker 2 (01:55:41):
God, damn Dan, that's good. That was very good. Oh
my god, I'm very proud of you right now.

Speaker 1 (01:55:47):
You know the one I forgot, but I know I
can't say it when you came up with the one
for hat, I keep getting it wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:55:53):
Kiskit eskit?

Speaker 1 (01:55:56):
Was that not the one?

Speaker 2 (01:55:57):
Yeah, kiskit kis kit.

Speaker 1 (01:55:58):
That's the one that I can't get right.

Speaker 2 (01:56:00):
Yeah that was you actually pronounced it pretty well.

Speaker 1 (01:56:02):
All right. There we go. But I will always know clippers,
so we need to care about mail clippers specific specifically.

Speaker 2 (01:56:10):
I'm sure it's gonna benefit you greatly when you visit Copenhagen.

Speaker 1 (01:56:14):
Until next time, and as always, I leave you with
a shout out to the one, the only, the indelible,
still floating around out there and can save your favorite
NBA team season two if they just let him. Mister
Frank Nila Keina

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The 2025 NBA Trade Deadline, 1 Month Later - Featuring Dan Favale

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The 2025 NBA Trade Deadline, 1 Month Later - Featuring Dan Favale