The Milwaukee Bucks Conundrum - Featuring Dan Favale - The NBA Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
What is up, Fellows, echoes On and Bampa Valley coming
at you with Mort Jensen of the NBA Podcast, fame
of Yahoo Sports, fame of Forbes, Fame, and of of
course OnlyFans celebrity. We're here to talk about stuff, a
lot of it depressing depending on which fan base you
root for. Before we get started and have to begin

(00:22):
with the dame stuff, of course, Mort, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
So?

Speaker 3 (00:27):
I'm actually doing pretty well. It's funny you bring up
the only fans thing because I had I had a
guy reach out to me and basically say, look, if
you don't make that one soon, I will, and like
he's he's like he was, he wasn't kidding. He's like,
you gotta make it reality just to have it now,
like just to have the account. So so now I'm

(00:49):
actually make an AI.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
They're gonna make an AI more Jensen OnlyFans, which means
that you have to beat them to it and make
the real Mort only fans.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Right, Yeah, No, Well he did say something interesting. He said,
Remember the people at OnlyFans actually wanted to go away
from the naughty stuff. Remember that they actually wanted to
close that whole thing down and become like quote unquote serious,
So like apparently there is content on that platform that
is naughty.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Like okay, okay, let's see there should be a can
you cross it over? You gotta meld it together. What's naughty?
NBA content look like naughty? Well, look, we just put
like the like the porn nineteen seventy porn music like
I think, and the staches behind behind right behind all
your monologues.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Let's do that right, and we go into all of
like the Luther head rude gay jokes out there, all
of them Kevin Love like, we go into all the
funny names. We we that's like, that's it right, because
it's it's actually funny. You asked me that because I
remember this goes ways way back to like when I
was sixteen seventeen, I had this idea that I don't

(01:56):
know why, but I maybe because I was still such
a fan at that point, I wasn't covering Lea, so
I just looked up to the NBA and I remember
at school there was a girl who came over and
I was looking at stats where they had player pictures
of players on it, and she was like, oh my god,
she said, like he's so ugly and I never looked
at it in that light. I was like, okay, look there,

(02:18):
surely there are more attractive NBA players than this guy.
I think she picked out like Petruch, Drupe Nutche or
something like that. It was greatious and I showed her
like fifty NBA players, thinking yeah, like she's gonna eat
her words, and she was like nope, every single one
of them was basically ugly until we arrived as Charul
Marry and she was like, oh, yeah, he can have it,

(02:39):
and so like maybe that's maybe that's a category. Maybe
maybe like let's simply rate NBA players, not on their skills,
but just on their way they look.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
I mean, that's wild regression. That's like Wags Territory from
ten years ago.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
It's the start of Facebook. The Facebook, that was the
whole point. Anyway, we just do it with NBA players.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, we need to move on from here because now
I'm depressed.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
I know me too.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
We begin with I think we need to start with
Dame Shocker. He's officially been diagnosed with the torn achilles
from that MRI. Yeah, he does have There are two
things I want to hit with this before getting into
the bucks. He does have a history of like lower
body calf stuff, and we know he was dealing with
the DVT that was in his right calf. There was
some speculation that he shouldn't have come back, the Bucks

(03:28):
shouldn't have been playing him. The medical sports experts and
like some of them are actual doctors, have all kind
of said that's not what happened here. So I'm not trying.
I'm just saying I don't think Damian Liller are the
Bucks did anything wrong. Here is what it seems like.
And then the second thing is this just sucks. Man.
This is just like he's gonna be thirty five. This
isn't you know Kevin Durant who can rise up and

(03:49):
jump shoot over everybody. He needs to dribble and create
and be crafty for the full breath of his impact
to be felt. It just sucks, even if you didn't
think the Bucks's window was open quote unquote with him
and Yannis together, it's just this blows. These serious injuries
always blow, but this is someone who's incredibly entertaining to watch.
I think he helped really reshape the way that NBA

(04:10):
offense is played. And it just even looking kind of
at the him and Yannis Lens of it all. They've
now played in what like to and change playoff games together.
Even if you didn't think their window was open, we
were supposed to get more than that from their time together.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Man, look, Dame for so many years was one of
my favorite players to watch, just one of the most
entertaining dudes. Like remember that shot against Okay see in
the playoffs, Like just to have the balls, the audacity
to take that shot, and was it. Paul George afterwards
was at well, it was a bad shot, Like everyone
was trying to downplay like the shot selection, but like

(04:48):
here's the thing nobody cares like, right, be fun, Paul George,
shut up, just acknowledge that it was a crazy good shot.
But it just to have that willpower, have that confidence
to take that shot at that point in time, and
the way that he did it, it's like the balls
of this guy. And that's that's always been the way
I've looked at Dame, like just the he's just so

(05:11):
unafraid of everything. So this sucks so much. It all Also,
obviously there's so many like rible effects that we'll get
into about the bucks and Gyanna's and all of this
because of this injury, Like you never want to see
a guy of this caliber potentially to alter his career
that way. I mean, look, we can't hide from the
fact that Kobe wasn't the same and that was a

(05:33):
similar age, right like thirty six, forty five, thirty six
and just never the same guy. And of course there
are guys who came back from Achilles tears and did well,
and I do think doctors nowaday are better than ever
in fixing it. But it'd be such a shame if
we are now going to see like a seventeen point

(05:54):
per game Damian Lillard who's like shooting in the mid
thirties from here on out. That would be got awful
in a and just a horrific way to like wrap
up the final few years of his career. So here's
hoping he'll have a KD turnaround.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, and even that, how old was KD? Because Loward's
gonna be thirty five this summer, I believe, and so
he's not gonna come back until he's thirty six, Like
he doesn't play next season, that would be pretty surprising,
right Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, uh well, I mean the Bucks do like to
rush him back, so we'll see.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, don't add fuel to that fire. You mentioned it though,
like the shot against Okay, see, even remember the Houston
series felt like his sort of that was just his
that was his Touchdowe moment in the sense of, oh,
this dude's going to be a problem, and I think
he'll go down like he's one of those players where
the anecdotes and the stats kind of a line where

(06:45):
he's probably just gonna go down as one of the
most most clutch players of all time, right.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah, oh, oh absolutely. And I hate the fact that
we have to say that like he's going to go
down as that, like we're always already talking about him
as if the career's over. Hate that.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
I don't mean to you eulogize it. It's just it's
very rare that players will I mean, I don't even
know if it's very rare so much as Kevin Durant
like came back and was basically Kevin Durant, and it's
just different, I think. So I hope he comes back,
and you know, I'll be in the final year of
his deal at that point, and he's just annihilatory. Just

(07:20):
it sucks though he's older and he's a small point
guard to begin with, which I think you would argue
those guys are typically at an inherent disadvantage when it
comes to the aging curve of their games, and you
throw an Achilles tear into this, and I it just
it sucks. That's what I keep going back to, is
it sucks.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
He's also one of those few active guys who are
like superstars and gets to the line that's on who's
actually drilling almost ninety percent for his career, like eighty
nine point nine for his career on like six and
a half attempts over nine hundred games. The concentration level

(07:59):
that you have to have to hit ninety percent of
your free throws over the course of nine hundred NBA games,
it's just ridiculous. Like nine hundred games played, twenty five
points per game as well, Like the rosstats like, oh
my god, no, this guy, like I'm not gonna utilgize either,
but like this guy is definitely going down as an
old timer for sure, and also in the entertainment atmosphere

(08:22):
as well, almost three thousand threes as well. Got I
mean this, no, this is this all suck?

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Did you have a career stats pulled up? How many
points does he have.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
For his career twenty two and a half thousand.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
So hopefully he'll still join the twenty five thousand point club.
I think he'll He should still be around long enough
to do that.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
That'll be that'd be nice. And he just he cracked
six thousand assists this year, like he was never an
elite playmaker, So I actually think that's a pretty solid
mark for someone who isten like.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
He gets what was it the Pelican series that they
lost way back when it felt like he came not
that he was ever one of the best playmakers in
the game, but he came out of that series and
then came back the next season as just a different
type of passer when it was reacting to all his
attention defenses, We're throwing at him, and so that was
also super cool to see. And this was something where
you know, just to run counter to the doom and gloom,

(09:12):
maybe he comes back, and just because the way you
could technically leverage him off the ball, like yeah, he hear,
he wouldn't be able to pinball around the same way.
And maybe it gets harder to make sharp cuts or
even set screens. But as someone who's just a transcendent shooter,
Like there is the floor's basic elementive. Maybe you don't
need to dominate the action. You can still levy a
real impact.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, and look, I mean it's not like when Clay
went down. That was the ACLS here though, first and foremost,
and that was the accusy during his rehab Unfortunately, Like
Clay was a good defender before he went down, he
was actually a very good defender. Dame has never had
that you know, repetition, like reputation that was.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
The word he might. Yeah, he might also be one
of the worst transition defenders of all time.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Right, So like can we we can probably argue there's
stuff a lot lost in that department, probably with the
lack of footspeed coming back. So like if you can
just key in offensively and just space the floor, perhaps
that's the pathway. That'd be wonderful.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Maybe we'll get to a point, not that this would
be it, but kind of how there's still serious injuries.
But when someone suffers an ACL tear, it's not all over.
Could achilles eventually become this is this part? Like is
this part of that progression? I will cross my fingers
for it, even if that goes against what science says
at the moment.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Well, I will say this though, because I had a
conversation with someone about this, and that was like, because
both Kyrie and Dame Now went down in the same
year with like devastating injuries, and he made the same
point like, well, you know, an acl TERRRI, isn't that
bad anymore? Where I'm like, well, I mean sure, if
you're in your early twenties, that's true. Like for a
guy like Kyrie, who's what twenties, thirty three I want

(10:55):
to say, thirty two, forty three, somewhere along those lines,
I'm stilling. I'm entirely sure he's out of the woodshed,
although like knock on wood that he is. But like,
it just gets tough for coming back from injuries when
you're in your mid thirties, regardless of what it is.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, I mean I need more rest following like weightlifting workouts,
let alone playing high level physical, super athletic basketball for
thirty five plus minutes night in and night out.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
I mean, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Let's talk a little bit about what this means for
the Bucks and so this will be time stamps. So
if you want just to hop to the Yannis Trade stuff,
which has to be a conversation about all that, But
I really do think it deserves more of a setup
as to well, why are people going to jump to
the Yannis trade stuff? And I think a lot of that.
You just talked about this extensively, you said on another podcast.
I'm writing about this a little while ago. The Bucks

(11:50):
are going to enter this offseason about twenty three million
below the luxury tax. That does not include a new
deal for Brook Lopez, who was a free agent. It
also assumes that Bobby Porous Impactsnan pick up their player
option pack contan duh. Bobby portis kind of on the
fence about like if he might be able to get
a longer deal, it just gets him more money. Also,
notably though Dari Tranch Junior and Torrian Prince. Prince hasn't

(12:13):
been like a huge part of what they've been doing
in the playoffs, but as someone who's on a minimum contract,
they've both been hyper important. They can be free agent,
they are going to be free agents, and they have
they don't the Bucks don't have bird rights on them,
and so it's if they're not going to be able
to offer them what will be the tax player mid
level exception or maybe they're able to stay out of
the tax. If Lopez leaves, those are two guys that
are probably gone. Though Dame himself has two years in

(12:34):
one hundred and twelve point six million left on his contract.
I think he's actually this is the beginning of that
Portland extension, and I think he's also extension eligible this summer,
if that matters to anyone. And so you're not dealing
with a ton of financial flexibility. Here is the point.
And then you look at the Bucks's pick equity. They
can trade up to one first and one first round
swap this summer. That is it. And then you get

(12:55):
into all right, well, what's the best package you could
get for that? You have to attach it to salary
bro Colpez a free agent, Damian Lowerd just got injured.
Who are you attaching it to? Does Kyle Kuzma have
any value that he has not been great for the Bucks?
His contract is not. He's two years under forty one
million left, So it's not that's a deal you can move.
I just don't know wherever you want to start off
this list, Mord. But the Kyle Kuzma thing is I

(13:17):
think he's eminently movable. But I don't think he's part
of the value that you're sending out anything, right, probably.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
Right, No, you can. He's a contract, that's what he is.
He's a contract that you can send out. He's sort
of fulfiller. He is not someone who an NBA team
goes in and identifies and goes, oh, yeah, that's the
guy we want. If a team does that, Milwaukee needs
to squeeze everything they can out of that. And just
I don't know one right exactly, three exactly. I mean,

(13:46):
that's that has to be the thinking there, because he's
not an asset the issue here. Even so, I recorded
a Danish podcast about this, You're absolutely right, and we
spent like an hour and a half on it. This
was before a dam went down, so we also went
in to like the whole idea of trading Dame, and
even with him before the injury, we're both like my
co host and I were like, you know, Dame is

(14:08):
probably worth more as a player than as a trade
asset right now. Oh yeah, So that that also like
complicates matters a great deal. There isn't anything that just
stands as a major boom from Milwaukee outside of Giannest,
like even Ryan Ronald Robert Ryan Rollins. That was hardy Apparently,
I'm okay, okay, that was tough. That was a tough one.

(14:30):
All the rs. Good player, I actually I am. I'm
actually pretty optimistic about his future. He's going to be
a restricted free agent, so that there might be more
money on the cap from there. Like Kevin Porter Junior,
despite him as a human being as a basketball player,
he's fine and he's.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Been too important to them. Yeah, you're right, that's right
player option.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
I think he has right player option two and a
half mil He could leave, like it's just so contractually speaking,
there's not a whole lot to do here. But more importantly,
Yannis also wants to win. I understand how in love
with Milwaukee he is. And I will say on Blue
s guy, I did like air this. You know, the
possibility that he could leave a lot of Bucks fans

(15:14):
did take well. I mean I don't want to say
they took offense, but they were like no more. Like
Yannis loves Milwaukee. He's gonna stay regardless, And I'm I'm
reaching that point where that would be romantic, Like, yes,
that would absolutely be romantic if he was just like, yes,
I want to stay with this organization regardless. But I
don't think he's wired that way. Could you not see

(15:34):
Yanni's just by the twenty game mark next year, if
they it's still Doc Rivers on the sidelines and it's
like his poor roster all around him, they're playing like
four hundred ball and he's just like, no, Like, what
the hell what are we doing here? That scenario is
very very obvious to me.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
I think it's obvious, and I mean I do want
to go there, But what I really want to ask
you is like, what is the what is the case
for the Bucks to not take the initiative going down
that there isn't one?

Speaker 3 (16:05):
There isn't one? What like what can they work? Like
realistically speaking? Where can they go from here to build something?

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Well? I I don't for next season. I really don't know.
You would have to hope like Dame coming back in
twenty twenty six, twenty seven, and that are you able
to man? But it if so, you're operating out the
assumption Dame doesn't play next season. I get, what are
you obligated to bring back Brook? What is the best
and now all of a sudden, what's your primary like priority?

(16:33):
If you're going on the trademark and saying, you know,
we're gonna put the pick and the swap on the
table and attach whatever money we need to. It has
to be another self creator. And are you looking at
it through because you don't have Dame and you arguably
needed something like that as well anyway, and so you
have to look at it through two lenses of was
it just get the best player we can or are
you also trying to well, we also would like someone
who could fit with Dame, And you're honest, when Dame

(16:54):
is healthy enough to play down the line, I think
it's an imp This will say.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
I do think who's the play I'm sorry to interrupt
with who's that player? Like, give me a name or
give me like a talent level. What type of talent
level are we looking at here? Are we looking at
all Star? Are we looking at go to starter? What
type of player quality we're looking at here?

Speaker 1 (17:14):
Without Dame, it probably needs to skew all Star. And
that's the problem is that can you get that guy? No,
that's what I mean, That's what I was gonna say,
is that you can't find the ideal name, and so
then you can get into the pattern of We'll just
get the best player that you can and figure out
the rest later. But without Dame, the gap between them,
and like the Calves and the Celtics like is I

(17:37):
would say insurmountable. And then it's can they even catch
the Pacers or the Knicks with like a type of
like hitting a double on the trade market, So they
probably can. And so you look at next year specifically,
and you're saying it would have to be almost a
gap here, which rings hollow when you don't control the
fate of your own first round pick. Yiannis, that'll be
his age thirty one season. He's thirty nine.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
That's the thing. Yannis can't afford a gap year like
he is going to be thirty one this year.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
So I'm just gonna I'm gonna play Devil's advocate here though,
and say, hey, I don't know if Jannis isn't going
to ask for out, and I'm the Bucks just because
I don't control my own draft picks, I don't I
can see the case. It's sort of like Devid Booker
in Phoenix to where it's only it's worse because you
can't just trade him to one place and say, oh,

(18:27):
we're gonna get back right two of our first distance
or three of our distant first round picks, like that
option isn't really available to them. So like, yeah, if
there's a if there's a package that cut one of
the truth, like if Yannis, here's my point, if Jannis
doesn't ask for out and I this could be a
repeat of what we say that Portland should have taken

(18:47):
the initiative and moved Damian Lillard. I think this is
different in the sense that Portland never even did enough
to optimize the Damian Liward window, and they were very
clearly moving toward a future timeline. It seems like they
just didn't want to be the ones to lose the
press conference or end the relationship, and they put the
onus on him. In this case, it's you're not like

(19:07):
because at the end of this shit stained rainbow, I
guess if you're rebuilding, you don't control your own picks.
If Giannis doesn't want to leave and he wants to
give it another season, I'm not sure if I could
take the initiative and move him anyway. Maybe they could,
because we did see Horst he like kept Drew Holliday's
name out of trade talks, and they say that that

(19:27):
was out of respect to Drew, but that was really
out of respect to the Bucks, because Drew probably would
have liked the heads up that a trade was coming
when we just saw the move Chris Middleton to Washington.
I don't think he you know, I'm not not saying
he was a malcontent in Washington. It seems like they
really appreciate his voice. But I'm sure he didn't want
to go to the Wizards. So maybe they have the
gall to move Giannis without him asking. But man, if

(19:49):
he says I want to give it at least another year,
he just know I'm not gonna request a trade mid season.
I'll gut it out. I would have a tough time
moving him because this is a once in a lifetime
type of talent and I don't even see the and
we can get to that. I think that's the next phase.
But I wanted to ask. If he doesn't ask for out,
that doesn't change your calculus here at all.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
No, it doesn't what I do if he doesn't ask out,
Even if he comes to me and says, look, I
want to be here another year, I'm going to ask
him for a meeting him and his agent, and I'm
gonna sit them both down and say, look, while we
greatly appreciate that, while we absolutely understand that having you
on this roster is an enormous asset and you mean

(20:30):
everything to us as a franchise, you're the best player
in franchise history, there is no way we're going to
be better in the long run here unless we have
to replenish our cupboard. So how about you and I
work together, You and your agent and me, we work
together on finding a situation that's optimal for you and

(20:51):
where the trade return is optimal for us, because this
is just kicking the can down the road, and we,
as an organization who have grown fond of you, also
don't want to see you waste a year of your prime.
We are fans of yours. We've seen you grown up,
grow up right in front of our eyes. We want
to make sure that you are happy with the rest
of your career, and we also want to make sure

(21:13):
that we're on the right path moving forward as an organization.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
I think I lean towards that argument. I just think
when that play like replenishing your cupboard, unless it's someone
you're getting back that you believe you can rebuild around.
It just gets so tough because then you're getting into
shorting futures of other teams because you can't dictate, Like
you just don't have control over your own first round picks.
Their nextre don't have control of their own first round

(21:39):
until twenty thirty one, correct, and that's a long time.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
But that means you've got to get the draft picks elsewhere.
And look, I have a trade. I don't know if
we should get there already. I can save it for later,
but I have one.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Well, I guess let's move on to that. Just to
like the cliff notes on the Yanni stuff is that
I would call his and you could tell me if
you disagree with this nutshell. He basically has said I
will stay in Milwaukee until I decide that I can't
contend there, And that's basically just been what he said.
So like he has sound someone not like he's, you know,
throwing out these threats. But I don't think where there's

(22:13):
other players that maybe you couldn't envision request to get trade.
I do think Giannis is the type of player that
would We also had Chris Haynes, whose cousin is Gianni's
fiance for people who care about that stuff, says he
doesn't think I tend to Coopo finish his career in Milwaukee.
I don't know how much I read into that specifically,
because I think we can say that about literally any
player who's yet to change teams in the NBA, Like
what is the It'd be hard to envision Yokic on

(22:34):
another team, But I'm not going to rule out JOKICR
finishing his career on another team. Uh. He has three
years and one hundred and seventy five million left on
his deal player option at the end of that. Uh,
you said you had a trade, Is there like a
you know, let's hear that first trade then, because I'm
interested to see like how you're because I think when
you mentioned the not like having control of their own

(22:55):
draft picks. I know you say you got to get
the draft picks somewhere else, but if you're trading Giannis somewhere,
you're inherently I would say, diminishing the value of that
team's own draft picks, which I think really complicates. Oh
that back.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
If you don't if you think I haven't taken that
into account, sir, you must think very lowly of me.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
I didn't think you would have taken into account. I'm
saying it. I'm gonna fascinated to see how your packages
account for that.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
So there are two picks in a package of total,
a total of five picks first rounders, all first rounders
that are that team's own, where you just kind of say,
all right, well, but they're in twenty nine and forty one,
so like they might actually be good. It's the San
Antonio Spurs. The deal is Devin Vessel, Harrison Barnes, jerem

(23:39):
Is Sohan. Then the Chicago pick in twenty twenty six,
the unprotected Atlanta pick in twenty twenty seven, which could
be pretty juicy, and there's a Boston pick in twenty
twenty eight, which you know it's I'm not closing the
door on that being more interesting than what it is
right now because we have kept her. We've heard the

(24:01):
rumplings about like the Celtics might actually eventually think it's
time to be concerned about the tax and new ownership.
We don't really know. And then it's the Spurs themselves
that send out two unprotected picks from the from themselves
in twenty nine and forty one.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
That's a really good package. And I love me some
Devin Vesselle. I actually like that Steph Castle's not in
there because I'm just lower on him long term than
a lot of other people. If he feels very if
he never develops like any sembuce of a jumper, I
don't know like what his ceiling then becomes, and so
I don't I think to me, I'd rather try to
have to start building a team around Devin vessel than

(24:41):
I would Steph Castle. With that said, now, is that
Boston pick that's a swap? Right? Oh, it might be.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
I'm looking at a screen crap that I did of it,
so I don't remember the details of that. It's the
I do think, so perhaps it's a swap, yeah, which.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Is still I mean pretty like you said distant having
the having a bulls pick in there. But you said
a bulls.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Pick right, correct in twenty twenty six. It's protected though,
so like to be yes, correct, But it's the bulls
so who knows.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Right, they're gonna do everything in their power to make
sure they convey that pick. Maybe, so yeah, so I
think the Boston one is a swap. So, but that's
it's top one protected that's a really loose swap. That's
a good the Atlanta pick of course. Then you said,
so it's a Spurs twenty nine.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
Pick and thirty one.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, that's a really good package. I actually don't the
idea of having I guess Wemby's a good enough shooter,
but to have Steph cast On Giannis on the same team.
Gianness has improved a lot from the mid range though,
But like the Aaron Fox Steph Gianni, like, that's a
lot of iffy shooting.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yes, so that's it's interesting you bring that up because
that was something in Danish of course we were talking
about as well. Like, yes, the spacing would be an issue.
So basically mandate from ownership and from leadership would be
to just surround those guys with shooters like you would
have to like from the bench, and guys who can
come in like everyone else on the roster more or

(26:06):
less would have to be floor spacers.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
I don't hate it, that's like that. What's wild about
that with the Spurs is so what assets do they
have left in their clip after that?

Speaker 3 (26:18):
They actually still had a fair bit.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Believe it or not, they saw the Wolves picks right
or they.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
Say the wolves had the wolf. Yeah, and then of
course because of the Stepien role, they would still have
their own picks, some of their own picks, because you
just can't trade everything. And then, like as you kind
of alluded to you you might not be high on
Stefan Castle. I'm enormously high on him, although I do
share concerns about the shooting because that shooting is, oh boy,

(26:48):
Like when you break it down in terms of how
he hits and how he misses, it's it's pretty bleak.
It's that's said.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
It's a weird. I just want to clarify, because we
always catch shit when I talk about Steph Castle. For
some reason, I actually think his ceiling is higher than
I expected, because like the defense was kind of has
an advertised. The passing is just so good, some of
the reads that he was making, and so I'm like, man,
if that guy had like a consistent and we know
he can get and finish to the rim, if he
had a consistent set jumper or like the in between

(27:15):
just like floater, just like an operable mid range jumper,
that his ceiling becomes way higher than I would have
thought coming out of the draft. I just think there's
a higher chance that he hits his floor, not that
he hits his ceiling, just that there's a higher chance
than you would like that he kind of never hits
his ceiling. Like that's uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah, no, I hear you. I think to me, it's
the fact that he's I thought he was far more
intelligent on the courin that I thought he would be,
Not not that I thought he would be dumb like
I watched him at Yukon, but I thought it would
take a couple of years for that basketball IQ to
sort of carry you over and improve to like NBA standard.

(27:54):
He came out rolling like that, just with reading the
floor in great ways, both defense and offensively. I think
him immediately realizing that his strength and his body is
an asset is also something that makes me feel very
comfortable about his future. Like I don't I can't even
tell you how many Spurs games I've seen where he'll

(28:15):
attack from the baseline and he'll have a bigger dude
on him, like rotate over. He will power through that
motherfucker's chest and go up and dunk him in the face,
where I'm like, did that just happen? Did a six
six dude just bump off a six eleven, two sixty
center and just yam in his face. Oh yeah, Like

(28:36):
so there's something there. There's a fearlessness that I adore.
There's the ability to get to the free throw line,
there's the passing, there's obviously the defense. He's also, in
my perspective, a pretty good rebounder and someone who will
only get better. In that regard. It all comes down
to the three. The three is going to be the
swing skill. But if there's an organization out there where

(28:57):
I'm perhaps less worried about is probably san Antonio.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
The other thing too, would be fun. I don't know
if we'd be there the next season, but like there'd
be a time, probably soon where Giannis is all of
a sudden just the third best defender on a team,
and that's kind of terrifying.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
Yep, yep, I don't.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
That package is right in line. I'd be I'd have
some hesitance, just like what san Antonio's offense ends up
looking like with the talent on that team would just
be so undeniable, and you're just I mean.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Do we really worry about Wemby's shooting and all this?

Speaker 1 (29:29):
If you're still playing with three questionable shooters at least
in the interim as part of your core lineup. I
think that's a pretty risky gamber.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Right, well, Gianni's Fox and Castle I presume.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, and so it's it would work. I just don't know,
like what would the ceiling on that offense be in
the playoffs? I really do a lot would hinge on
wemby the Aaron Fox and Stephan Castle, just like how
those guys develop or does the Aaron Fox, Like can
his shooting kind of make the right turn where it
dipped a little bit this year? I think compensation is
probably right in line with what Milwaukee should be thinking about.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
Though perhaps perhaps you do something like this will take
some convincing, but perhaps you go to Castle and his
team and you say, look, we have this opportunity to
go get Giannis and make a run, like a real run.
How about you become you know, our our our six

(30:25):
man sounds so horrible, but like just our our you know,
our sixth starter, Like you're gonna play for any minutes,
but you're gonna come off the bench just so you
can sort of take over those second units. They might
still help to keep Chris Paul around, Like, hey, I
would imagine Chris could be convinced to return for a year. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
I mean the fact that he stayed there all year
this year.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah. And if you're starting Julian Champagne at the three,
which I presume you would, you're probably pivoting off Kelton
Johnson for more depth. All of a sudden, your starting
lineup could be CP three, Darren Fox, do you Champenni,
Jannan and then you have Steffan Castle and a couple
guys coming off the bench who can who can do stuff?

Speaker 1 (31:09):
I'd be intrigued. Let's talk about another team that I
think is mentioned a ton. There's two that I feel
like we're obligated to mention h Houston. A lot of
this to me feels like they just have the assets
and so this is what they should do, I guess,
but work like what what is young like Gianni's does
bring another offensive weapon to what they're doing. He's certainly

(31:32):
better than any of just their playoff performers, right, Like
you're gonna trust him more than a jail and Green,
You're gonna trust him more than an Alpa Echion goon
than a Fred van Fleet. But like, are you? I
don't know what does that package begin to look like?
And then to me, I'd still look at them and say,
like they still need to go out and either hope
that if he's not traded, Reed Shepherd, is that dude,

(31:52):
or they need to go out and find that dude
who can still be kind of the the outside in
like we saw Jannis loveolp is playmaking this year without Dame.
So I'm not trying to short shrift Gianness here, but
I still think they would need that top like play
like that advantage creator from one of the perimeters.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
No, they would. They would. I mean because presumably a
package would be Dylan Brooks, Jabari Smith, am and Thompson
and like Torry Eastn or something along those lines, where
like you're that's a lot of guys who are heavily
involved in both the defense and offense would go the
other way. So you are going to be reliant on

(32:30):
someone coming in and taking over some bald handling duties
just basically taking making decisions with the ball in their hands.
Who is that going to be? Like Gianni's is going
to take some of that. But like if if you're
looking at a frontman Vliet Jalen Green Gianni Sanse Tokumbo Corp.
Which while Shinkun is in there as well, Like do
you trust the bald handling from a perimeter creation perspective,

(32:54):
I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Would you? If you're the Rockets, do you make you
just kind of outline that if it's gonna cost you,
Amen Thompson additional picks. I'd be curious see what they
would prefer to salary to be. It's because they could
pick up Fred Van Fleet's team option and say, maybe
maybe Milwaukee doesn't want to deal with just that expiring cun,
but maybe they do. Maybe they want that type of
to offload that type of number, and in one year
they have a bunch of different routes that they could

(33:18):
go when it comes to matching salaries.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
Right, And they also have one note, by the way,
they also have guys who can step into some of
those roles like you pivot off I'm and Thompson Nintari
Easton for example, Like I'm not saying it's one to one,
but you can give Ken whipmore some of those minutes.
You can make sure that Jason Jayson Tat is back
and give him some of those mins Like there aren't
guys who can come in and take some of those

(33:41):
mins like they're not empty.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Do you know what's also interesting to me? And maybe
the Bucks wouldn't be interested in this, but in this scenario,
I think he's really good, but just because there would
still be redundancies, and they would be more expensive redundancies.
Now when you look at what they're both making, are
you trying to include alp In Shangoon in this instead
of a man Thompson. I guess if you're not getting

(34:04):
the kind of top level offensive creator we're talking about,
maybe you don't want to. But if your plan is
to go out and get that player, or you think
it could be reached Shepherd or he could be going
to Milwaukee's part of this. I just the player that
we want the Rockets to get. And it's not even
necessarily y honest, I think they invariably by default come

(34:25):
in and they infringe upon shng Goon's importance because you're
looking for someone who would deserve to operate with the
ball more than him.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yeah, that's that's a really good point. I wouldn't I
wouldn't be a guest.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
I would say if he's not included, this would increase
the likelihood that he is then moved as part of
another deal is what I would.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
That's that is that is also fair. I mean, at
this look, I don't think there's anyone on the Rockets
where I'm like, no, this guy is just off the
table for Yannis, like everyone's in play. And that's I
say that fully realizing how much I love the iteration
of Houston and and the youthfulness of this roster. But

(35:04):
if you want to take that one step up Jannis
or Devin Booker, that is the type of guy. Kevin
Durraine is not the guy because he might retire a
year and a half from now, Like we don't know.
It's just I don't want to go after you know,
the super old guys.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
They you know, we could say this about one other
team aside from the Rockets. They could just get both
like Yiannis and I guess the Sons don't want to
move Devin Booker. But like in theory, if you don't
include those Sons picks because you have other picks, but
depending like you would just still My point is you
still we talk about san Antonio would have some assets

(35:38):
left over, but Houston could trade for Joannis and then
probably turn around and go get another all NBA type player.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
That's interesting Jannis and book And like if we we
have to make some assumptions on who's left on this roster,
like is Wary Smith I think.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
That?

Speaker 3 (35:57):
And Fred what that? And Fred I assume right?

Speaker 1 (36:02):
One thing? Well, I guess I was thinking in my head,
you're using Fred as like you're picking up his team
option and sending him to one of these teams as
like a salary anchor.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
So Jalen Green is still around?

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Well, I guess there's so many different there's so many
different paths they could travel down, Like because right, maybe
I think you can get away making one mega trade
without including a like one of your younger large salaries
like Jayalen Green your outpri and Shangun is my point.
But if you're trying to make two, one of them
is gone, you'd probably prefer it to be Jayen Green.

(36:34):
But I also think of Yannis is coming in, you're
probably more open. And if it's Devin Booker coming in,
does it make sense like Jalen Green is the out one?
But they could there's so many different ways they could
game it is would you prefer that like they declined
Fred ran Fleet's team option bring him back on a
smaller number, And you've now traded Jail and Green and
Ouprin Sheng Gun as like part of getting Giannis and Book.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yeah, look, sir, we've just seen two years a positional
overlap in Phoenix with Devin Book and Bradley Beale. I
am not playing that fucking game again, No way. And
we are we going into the positional overlap the thing again. Nope,
the whole idea that, oh well, then Book can play
the one because he's a great big and roll guy.
Let's let's just not. Let's not let's actually unleash him

(37:15):
in the capacity that he was meant to be unleashed,
which is traditionally speaking, a shooting guard.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
So I disagree in the sense. I do think that
I think what happened with the Suns said more about
the lack of adaptability on that too for Braddy Beal's game,
and I expect that Jalen Green has not necessarily needed
to be and like we've seen it this year, like yeah,
they need him to get buckets, but like he is
not needed to monopolize the offense the way that some

(37:41):
of these other higher end guys have, but I am
with you. I want to make that clear. If I'm
getting Devin Booker, I probably don't I want Jalen Green
to be a part of that package or whatever. Other man.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Yes, yes, Fred Van Lead, Devin Booker can win more
Giannis on Tookombo and who the hell will their center be?
I don't know, but that's a pretty dangerous for him
right there.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
So I guess you laid out a package at the beginning.
If we're looking at this from Milwaukee's perspective, like, what
is the what is the end game? Intern so like
we know the picks can be you figure out the
picks later, but is it what are the players you're
do you would you prefer to get Amen Thompson over
Alpern Shangoon just because do you think Thompson has the
higher ceiling? He's just cheaper right now? What is like?

(38:24):
What is what is the are you trying to get
Ama Thompson En Read Shepherd? Then that means you're probably
not getting as much paid, Like what is what are
you trying to do with Milwaukee? If Houston is the
team to which you're sending you honest.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
Much to your joy reached Shepherd isn't going anywhere in
my perspective.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Well, now I have to interrupt again. Does that mean
he's gonna play?

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yes? Okay, then then I'm all for this. Keep going
all right. So it's a good question. I have Shan
Gun and Thompson rated somewhat similarly, but I will say this,
Thompson's contract, first and foremost is obviously a bigger asset. Secondarily,

(39:04):
I think his trajectory is so ridiculously high that I
could see a scenario where in the box go yeah,
Thompson is the guy we're betting on as opposed to Shanegon.
Shanegun has the higher floor though, Like that's the thing
we know for sure, like what his floor is, and
we're not sure whether Thompson can get there. We're hoping

(39:24):
because it looks that way, but we've yet seen it
full time. So it comes down to, like a roll
of the dice, what do you believe in? Do you
believe there's a second layer of potential in Shanegon that
he's just yet to reach because he was playing on
a fully stock roster that emphasized defense far more than offense.

(39:44):
Or do you just want to say, look, I'm and
Thompson is clay. He can be molded into anything we want,
and we're rolling the dice on that. That depends on
how your front office look looks at things.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
I think I would go the route of who does
Houston deem less valuable in the honest trade and also
after I think after Yanni's trade is part of that,
because as Milwaukee, I want as many bites at either
the prospect or draft pick apple as I could get.
And I think Shangun is young enough and that contract
is just yeah, he got paid, but it's so innocuous
enough and it's five like they have him for five years.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
Oh yeah, the contract is good. Oh yeah, No, No,
I'm just saying, in contrast to Thompson, who's like only
in year what two of his roomque it's yea.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Is if you were who do you think Houston if
they're sending that out, do do you think they view
Thompson as the more nomalous asset? And so if they
were sending out Shangun instead, you might get Yeah, Like,
if I'm Milwaukee, I'm playing the well. If you're saying
omen let's just I'll use this as a an analog,
and I'm not trying to be provery of better. Let's
say Houston views Amen Thompson as the equivalent of three

(40:49):
first round picks and Opera and Shangun the equivalent of two.
I'm going to want alprin Shangun and then an additional
draft pick rather than just Domin if I'm the Bucks.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Like again,
personally speaking, I don't have a preference. It's everything's on
the table, and like if this is the way they go,
and they decide to go top heavy, like the one
thing I would give me some pause is it could
feel a little like the Nets with d Rand and Kyrie,

(41:20):
Like it's almost the exact same situation. The Nets were
finally finding their footing then they were went all in
on those two guys. This could be a similar thing.
That said, I kind of trust Book and Gianni is
a little bit more because of their the current age,
and like I do think Houston might have more like

(41:40):
just loaded up than the Brooklyn have that back then.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Right, And the other thing was too, is like Brooklyn
still had a lot of stuff left over, and it
was they their cardinals in, wasn't I guess it was
Kyrie it was Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant, but it
also was they just made a lot of bad decisions
after that, DeAndre Jordan over Jared Allen for one of them.
Then you made right that James Harden trade in general,
and to be fair, that doesn't look good in hindsight.

(42:04):
But if there weren't injuries or Kyrie Irvings pandemic views
whatever the pandemic itself, like that team looked inevitable, like
it looked like it was going to win a championship,
and so I would trust it more, and like you would,
you're getting two guys rather than like it was. Once
they got the third is when it felt like Brooklyn
all of a sudden was operating on this ultra thin

(42:25):
margin for error.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Right.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
The other team that is going to be mentioned, which
is wild because they're favored to win the title. I
believe the Yoklahoma City Thunder Where are your this is?
I hate getting into them because we know that the
Rockets are gonna lose at something like this is not
a title team and I'm not trying to poopoo over
Rockets fans dreams. Maybe they get past the Warriors. I
don't think they will I picked the Warriors in seven,

(42:49):
I think, but the thunder just might win it all.
And so you have to come at this from two perspectives.
If they don't win it all, is Yiannis that it
might even be three perspectives, it's does Giannis get them
over that hump? Then if they win it all, it's
do you just go get Yannis freaking attent to Kupo anyway?
And then the third part of all of that is
or I guess it's like an extend the extension to
one of those outcomes, like what are you like, how

(43:12):
how high are you going to go with your offer?
Because you have whatever picks you need. But if Milwaukee
says we want j dub or chet Holmegrin, otherwise we're
not making this deal. Are you moving one? Do you
not care which one? Which one? Are you moving? If
you have to move one? Where do you land on
that part in order?

Speaker 3 (43:33):
Yes? Yes, And I'm so glad you asked about Jada
because this is the exact conversation I had on the
Danish pod. And here's my take on it. Because I'm
absolutely loaded with draft picks as well, and I can
get more if I want to, because I can pivot
off of other guys who are rotation level players who

(43:53):
might not be playing us. Much Like let's say I
wanted to get even more draft picks. I could shop
Alex Scruso. I could shop I say it, Joe. I
could shop Aaron Wickins if I wanted to. All Right,
So what I do is if Milwaukee says Jaylen Williams,
that's the guy we want, I'm gonna ask Milwaukee, all right,

(44:16):
how many picks will cost us for you guys to
take Jadab off the table? And I'll get an answer
and I'll say, yes, please, heil call in.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
I agree with that approach. But if that's not an option.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yeah, if that's not an option, that's a real conversation,
because then you get into like the whole thing about
do you want the long term window or do you
just want let's just be real about this, the better player,
Like and I'm sorry, look, no, but here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
No one should get mad that you said Yanis is
a better player than Jada.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Oh no, no, no, no no. But like I have
seen some pretty wild takes from from Thunder fans, like
in basically saying, look, in twelve months time that might
not be the case, and like, look, I'm high on Jadap,
I'm extremely high on Jada, but like, let's slow a
role a little bit here it's Giannis, Like let's relax.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Do you know where I get so? Well, let's first
start here. Who would you if you had if you're
allowed to choose, are you would you give up chet
Holmgrin instead of J Dub. I'm assuming because you could
argue that comes more important with Gianni's there, because he
really got him up against Memphis by the way, Chet
was like permitted. I don't think he's ever fired more
threes for Oklahoma City, but you could argue I think

(45:41):
Jay Dubb is the better player, and I think I think.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
So too, But I, like you, I would prefer I
would prefer to keep Shed around Giannis.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yes, oh no, I actually would prefer to keep Ja Dub.
I'm gonna go with the upside, even though I think
that's the better fit. I'm going because about would Chet
be the thunder second best player? I think JDub is,
Like I'm a Grant is really high on JDub, so
I can't high on him as he is, But like
I love JDub the.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
Same say that's the thing, Like if you choose one
of the other, people are gonna be like, oh so
you hate that guy? Like no, no, this isn't one
of those issues like what's your favorite fruit? Apples? Oh
so why do you hate oranges? Right, it's one of
those situations like no, I it's it's Sophie's choice. It's
what it is. If you're looking at it like that,

(46:29):
just all right Jadub or Chat, Oh my god, Like
that's so tough. Like I agree with you guys that
Jadub is better. But I do think you can replicate
him in the A aggregate to quote Moneyball a little bit.
I mean I think you can.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
You can, man, I don't know that that size and
being in a guards.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
I know, I know, okay, okay, recreate a version of
him perhaps, Like I just think it's easier to find
flexible wings.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
But I know.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
I hear you though, Like I hear you. That's why
I wanted to go the first approach, just like dear Milwaukee,
tell us what it is that you want instead, like
how many additional draft picks do you want? Like that
has to be the plan.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
And there's also a part of me that, let's say
the Thunder don't win a title. That I still just
there's a real part of me. It might even be
the part that wins out that says, if that's the
breaking point you want Chet or Jadab, then no, I'm
gonna say no. But that runs counter to everything we
know about championship windows, is that for every team that
is able to sustain or reorient, and I think Golden

(47:36):
State and Boston are kind of the two primary examples there.
There's everything else. There's you mentioned Brooklyn already, there's the
current state of the Suns. There's ever the fuck happened
to Philly since twenty twenty one every single year, and
that list kind of goes on, and so that part
of me is like, all right, you need to if
it's gonna cost one of these guys and you don't
win the title this year, yeah, if you win the title,

(47:58):
you can just say no. But we just want the title.
We're not giving up either of these dudes. If you don't,
I think it has to be a discussion. I don't
know where I would land. I still might say no
if you won't let us go out and get you
as many first rounders as you need for the equivalent
of Chet or j dub and look, I actually that's fair.
The one underrated thing though about what you said. Those
guys are both extension eligible, and so Milwaukee might be

(48:20):
thinking at it through that where it's okay, those fun
maxes are fun, but they might say, yeah, there is
a number of first round picks you could do to
kind of offset that. It might make it more likely
that you're able to just get Yannis while keeping both of.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
Them right, which would be preposterous.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Are there any other teams that you think stood out?
I wanted to mention one is sort of a I've
seen it crop up, but I don't think people understand
that they would It would cost them like one of
their three primary components on the roster, and that's Memphis
h They don't have like large tradable salaries aside from
Jaron Jackson, Juice Desmond Bane and John Morant, and so

(48:56):
you can include they also don't have a bunch of
extra first round picks. They have all their own extens
for this year. Sure, that's like a tough I don't
I'd be interested to see what Jiannis and Jared Jackson
Junior can do together. But if I'm the Bucks, Jaren
might be the player that I'm talking because you know,
I don't think you want I mean, it'd be an
interesting challenge trade, I guess, because you know Damian Miller's
injured now. But like, do you want a package built

(49:18):
around John Moran? If you're all the picks some of
those like cheap prospects, you you would get Zach Edie.
I'm assuming, like jaw ead and picks for Yannis? Are
you doing that if you're Milwaukee.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
I hadn't even thought about Memphis in terms of as
a Janni's destination because just earlier today I just published
a piece over at Yahoo about basically breaking them up
or well at least training Morant and then frankly not
giving that kind of a contract to Tarn Jackson Junior
that everyone's envisioning because I'm not sure I'm there. Uh

(49:53):
what does that do? Like I'm trying to think of
a way where like we can collect a roster, gather
a roster in Memphis that makes sense for Yiannis to
go there. Like I agree that if there is a
front court partner that would make sense, it's Jaron Jackson
Junior and Giannis Like those two just yeah, but it

(50:16):
would take morand like, what is the is your primary guard,
Desmond Baine?

Speaker 1 (50:23):
It would have I mean you have if you're keeping
Scottie Pippen Jr.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Yeah, Scotty is looking good, so Scottie Bain.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Maybe Chris Paul signs there.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
M hmm. I don't know, man, I like the first
I like the first couple of traits instead a lot
better the first three.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
This one. I probably do it. If I'm Memphis, I don't.
Milwaukee's where I give Paul strip because I don't know
what the end game becomes with John Heady and then
like damon, I no, I do it.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
If I'm Memphis, I'm just asking, like what's what's the
long term motivation or what's the title? Sure, but like
can they really surround him? Well maybe they can still
they still have sec climens who can pick up like
Gold at the end of the second round if he
wants to. It's just I think that I think Giannis

(51:17):
is age just pressing a little bit on that one.
Like if Gianni's was twenty seven and you gave Memphis
like two years of runway for it, all right, you
know what I'm all in. But it feels like it's
a now situation for him. Can Memphis a comedy that?
I don't know?

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Ah? I think they. I mean they're not. What you
have to give credit to Milwaukee for is they've had misses,
like they've generally paid, and they did duck the second
Apron this year. I get it, like Members Members hasn't
gone to that extent even where it's oh, are they
gonna duck the second April. No, it's oh, they're just
gonna duckt the tax. So that's a really fair question.

(51:54):
You're not in love with the Memphis idea? Nope? What
are What are some other teams that you think need
to be mentioned here?

Speaker 3 (52:00):
I think those are the primary ones. We can add
in those teams that are just kind of stuck in
nowhere nowhere territory. But like if they give up the
vast majority of their you know, they're good pieces on
a roster, even training for Giannis, there's a pretty good
chance they're gonna get stuck again, just in a different way.
So it has to be those teams that have assets

(52:24):
to burn and are close enough to make a run.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
So let me throw a couple out at us candidates,
all right, I do think there's probably Lakers fans. I
think that they could get Yannis now because of what
happened with the Lucas stuff. But it's not gonna be
the Lakers. You think Atlanta. They they're gonna have a
new like front office figurehead there. But if they decide
they want to keep Trey Young, they already don't have
their own picks moving for the next this year twenty
six and twenty seven. They just decided, well, we're gonna

(52:51):
set the rest of those on fire to repair Giannis
and Trey Young. And look they have if you're putting
Jon Johnson on the table, yep, super insuring. I don't
know that might be a and you do have some
imminent first where we don't know if the King's pick
is going to technically convey this year, but like they
could build a real package for Giannis. I think if

(53:11):
they wanted to.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
That's one of those teams where I was thinking about that, like,
what is a team that's sort of stuck. That's Atlanta.
But I do think there's salary structure specifically is a
major asset to of them. I mean, look, they Clint
Capella is coming off the books. Karsta Verde is coming
off the books, you might want to retain him, especially
if we get Yannis, but preferably at a lower price point.

(53:35):
You can always move on from Yeko Kongbu like you
can also pivot off of Terrence Man if you want to,
not saying that those two guys don't have a spot there,
but perhaps you need to optimize fit if you get
Giannis in there. Those two guys are tradable. You can
also pivot off George Nieing if you want to. Personally,
I would probably keep him there just because of the
spacing that he provides you. But no, there are some

(53:59):
interesting parts here in play that might actually elevate them
a fair bit. So that might be the one team
currently stuck in the middle of nowhere that might see
themselves slither out of that by making that trade.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Yes, this team is not stuck in the middle of nowhere,
but I feel like they've been mentioned with Giannis for years.
Is there a pathway to Golden State building a real offer?
They have some picks they could give up their odds.
I don't think it.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
Jimmy right, An is Jimmy the guy that goes out
has to be right.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
I think you're yeah, and in that situation, I'm wondering
it's and he's going to a third team that is
sending stuff to Milwaukee because Milwaukee's not gonna want Butler.
I think you might be able to get there. It'd
be tight if it's a cominga sign in trade and
you're also trading Draymond. But I don't know, are you
ready to do that, because honestly, I'd prefer Janis, Jimmy, Butler,
Steph then Draymond, Giannis, Steph. I'm not gonna go.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
Oh same, same, but like you can't probably can't get.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
I think Jimmy has more standalone value than Draymond then Draymond.
Draymond certainly has more emotional value to the Warriors than Jimmy.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Right, even if you wanted to move Draymond instead, you'd
be looking at three guys being earning in like the
mid fifties. That is top heavy as shit.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
That is super top heavy. So it would have to
be Butler going to teamwhere and it's not gonna be Phoenix.
They don't have the assets to like facilitate that for anyone.
I just don't they have real stuff to trade. But
like I don't think they don't have like Yiannis level assets,
because this is going to be even if they're trying
to accommodate where Yannis wants to go, this is going

(55:46):
to be a bidding war.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
If they can turn in Butler. Like now, wait a second,
they're because what they're going to use the Butler trade
or the Butler contract to get honest m who is
the team that.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Wants to give up a bunch of stuff for Jimmy
Butler while also helping another team require Giannis?

Speaker 3 (56:05):
No I was, I was sort of, that's that is fair.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Dallas, Dallas, the balls, Jimmy Butler, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
The bulls. The bulls got looped into the tr and
Fox trade because we just need to dump assets on you.
And they were like, oh cool, thanks, thanks for thinking
of us. No, I was actually thinking of someone something
else here, because if you get Giannis in there, presumably
you want to pivot away from Draymond, right, Like, that's
I would assume, so like you, that's when you can

(56:31):
make him available. And and what what by thinking here
is if you can turn Butler and stuff into Gianni's
and you can turn Draymond and stuff into Saclovine, I
would not hate that.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
I just I think I probably agree with you, but
then you still kind of need Giannis isn't his best
at the five, Draymond can be his best four five.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Yeah, and that's that's where it is. I just I
think that team needs more floor spacing. I need. I
think that team will just you kind of like imagine
if it's Lavine Steph in the back court and then
Gianna's just sort of handling everything else. Offensively speaking, That's
that's tough, Like that is extremely tough to guard.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
I want to mention a couple other teams. Miami is
just gonna be mentioned, But what is the You could
throw khalil Ware in there? Okay, fine, but unless you're
including Bam, you can only trade two outright first round
picks this summer. And I know Tyler Hero's value is better,
but Tyler Hero, Hanway Hawk is khalil Ware in two
first round picks and swaps? And I don't, well, one,

(57:37):
are they even throwing all that on the table, because
what's left after that?

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Would Milwaukee even accept that? Would?

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Right?

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Are the teams suddenly could beat it? Yes?

Speaker 1 (57:45):
So they're a tough one. And something I can't remember
where I saw the report. This was earlier in the year,
but there was speculation that the Knicks acquired Karl Anthony
Towns to make it easier to pull off a Joanna's
attent to Kupo trade. Now, if you if you look
at that through the prism of saying Karl Anthony Towns
has more value than Julius Randall Dante DiVincenzo in that

(58:05):
Detroit pick, which ended up being number seventeen. Sure, I
think that's fair to say. I just don't. I'm like,
I don't even know what That package has a ton
of moving parts. There's like three and four and eight
teams involved, and Jannis has to really push to go
to New York. I didn't see that logic, although Jannis
and Jalen Brunson would be fun as hell. And then

(58:27):
if I'm the Knicks, like I think most teams regard,
if you're trying to get picks to send to Milwaukee,
ors Milwaukee just want players, They're probably being insistent on
getting Og and Andobi over mckel bridget. At this point,
I don't know, and I would prefer to pair Og
with Giannison Brunson. And even then, sure we talk about
a Knicks team doesn't take enough threes Johannis coming in

(58:48):
and you're losing Karl Anthony town to it's I was
just fascinated. I couldn't bring myself to figure out the
logic behind how does a Karl Anthony trade make it easier?

Speaker 3 (58:56):
Aside from well, don't don't don't move him, don't move
him because he is that's a three point threat. Yeah,
like an anop Mitchell Robinson. That probably works financially.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
And then what what like that is getting you there?

Speaker 3 (59:09):
That's where that's what that look. There's a reason I
brought up saying that somebody else my first one, because
they have picks like that has to be one of
the major demands from Milwaukee.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
I have to assume, so I would tell you would
hope if it's not, I have some questions about the
same same. Uh Are there any what about I think
can Denver do anything?

Speaker 3 (59:32):
That's the fun one, right, that's the fun one, because
you want that to be like Michael Porter Junior and something.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
They can trade one first round pick. I think there's
they have some swaps they could give up in there.
That's I mean. But you're also you're including if they
asked for it, you're including Christian Brown and or Peyton.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
Watson, Right, yeah, gotta it's Yob Jane.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Watson might as well go. I don't really see a
pathway to him and yan Is playing together, right, But
even do they have the financial stomach for us. You're
gonna pay Yanis, Gordon, jokicch and Murray, Yeah, can make
more than MPJA, that's all. Like that's you might be
able to offset that money next year, but moving forward,
that's gonna be pricey.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
I think right now they absolutely have the stomach forward.
For one reason, they are being slaughtered in the media
for never having given Nikola jokicch an All Star like
that is all everyone's talking about. This would send a message.
And look, if there's a guy worth his contract, it's
also Janni's under the gumbo. So I honestly, I don't
think NBA team's mind playing paying a ton of money

(01:00:36):
as long as they get production in return. That's obviously outweighing,
you know, the compensation level. You don't have to worry
about that with jokicch or Yannis or Luka that some
of you know, some of those guys, if you pair them,
it becomes a question, right, where are you going to
get the same production out of this guy, Like I
Shanna's going to trickle down from thirty and twelve and

(01:00:58):
six to twenty three nine and four? Is that worth it?
Like that's some teams have that line of thought, right,
I don't think so personally, because he'll be playing with Jokic.
If anything, I i'd see a scoring go.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Up at that point. Though, it's can you keep Aaron
like functionally? And to the Nuggets credit. I don't mean
to gloss over this. They've paid players, it's they've kind
of they more so cheap out if it comes to
keeping front office executives. So I don't I'm with you
that they would pay it. But Aaron Gordon and Giannis
on the same team where Yokic is your center, I'd
be I'd be fascinated. But like someone needs to take

(01:01:35):
threes there, so you're probably looking at moving. If you're
moving MPJ, you're then moving Aaron Gordon to get shooting
i' or at least trying to write.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
I would have traded Gordon over Porter, but the contract
is just not big enough. Not right now?

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Do you think that Gordon has more even more? Does
he even have more trade value? Than MPJ.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
I think you're probably right. Maybe the Bucks would value
the stability of just having him under contract, but they'd
also probably be leery of what we've seen what this
guy looks like without Nikola jokicch And we certainly do
not have Nicola Jokic.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
Right So, And honestly, I think that's part of the
calculus for a lot of teams dealing with Denver, Like
they're looking at those guys and go like, again, Jamal Murray.
We've talked about this on this podcast before, Like, are
we sure that any team that wants to trade for
Jamal Murray is thinking, oh, yeah, he'll be better without
jokicch Like, is anyone thinking that? I doubt it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
No, are there any like Super dark Horse or fun
teams you want to throw out there that we haven't
mentioned yet. No, I don't think they would do it.
Detroit would be fun, so throw him.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Trod would be fun. But but like, again, what's the package?
Do they have enough? Like what makes sense?

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
I mean between I'm not saying you include all these guys,
but they have all their own picks. J and Ivys R. Thompson,
Ron Holland there's I think they could put together a
real offer.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Cadan Giannis would be fun and if that's the nucleus
you can build around that, those guys probably extend his
window a little bit Giannis is by pairing him with
a younger secondary star as well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
It doesn't interesting kind of the like maniacal competitor that
might think in those terms. Two mm hmm, maybe not.
Maybe he wants to go to a Golden State or
a Lakers or in New York where he's just fine,
like oh Houston or o casee san Antonio like they have.
But Wenby would be him thinking like that where it's
San Antonio is not an undesirable market. But players traditionally
aren't trying to force their way there necessarily. But then

(01:03:39):
the Iron Fox did because Wenby exists, and what have
we heard everyone say on and off the record that
he's not gonna He's not gonna be the last player
to do that, right, right?

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Someone DM me after the Danish episode bringing up the
Bulls through the peas the spectrum of Bhuslas, and I
was like, that's just not enough because while he's say, have.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
To send something else to Chicago, and right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Exactly right, and but and then I started like work
shopping it. And that's kind of why I came up
with the with the whole thing where it's so tough
for like these teams that are stuck to go anywhere,
Like let's even say, no, I'm just gonna use the bulls.
And as an example, let's say they removed or not
well traded out all of their best players and all

(01:04:29):
the draft picks that they own, all their draft picks,
all of all of the draft picks. Where the hell
does that leave them? Right back at the beginning, Like,
it's those teams that I'm really fearful it's going to
like make a strong play on Giannis and then without
realizing they just kind of biting their own tails.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Do you think there's any chance that Danny Ainge would
just they have all these picks that he just might
be I don't know who they're trying, like Parry Giannis
with Lowry marketing. It would be a lot of fun.
And if let's say, are they one of the teams
that if they won the lottery, they could build a
package for Giannis without including that Cooper flag pick, Because
then that gets like Jannis and Lowry and Cooper flag.

(01:05:10):
That's the team.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Hm hmm. Can we just acknowledge how odd it be
if he ended up in Utah of all places like that.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun, but like.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
What, I favor it when like I loved it when
Cleveland came out of the woodwork and got Donovan Mitchell.
I loved that because I want it. First of all.
I want to see those teams take risks and if
he rewarded for it, like Donovan Mitchell resigning in Cleveland.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
That's true, That is true.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Yes, I just the Jazz don't the Jazz don't have
like the guy yet. And Jannis wherever he goes, that
team is already gonna have at least one of the guys.
Even if they view Jannis as the best of the guys.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
I mean, I still view Laurius four. I know he's
playing the three a lot. I still think he's best
at the four. John Collins is exclusively a four. So
like I, if you get honest.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
There healthy Taylor, Hendrix, Joannis and Lowry, they can all
play together.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
You know, I am glad you bring up Tailor Hendricks
also a four. They've got a lot of force. There.
Kyle Philipowski's a four Kyle pill.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
You talk about pure fours, Kyle Philipowski might be the purest.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
For right, Like, they have so many power forwards coming
through their ass right now, it's like how how the hell?
Like it has to come with a plan, Like, if
you get honest, it has to come with the plan,
Like how do we actually round out this roster?

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Boston wouldn't look at Yiannis, right, they would their second April,
But like, what if it was just they're trying to
simultaneously lop off payroll without I guess getting too much
more Like if it's Jaalen Brown and Porzingis as the
baseline and they're gonna take back less money, then oh
they can't aggregate. But if they finish under the second apron,
they could, right, just that's super I mean they could

(01:06:56):
in the off season. You could certainly work it. So
Giannis and jail like basically at the same salary level.
So you'd basically be looking at the difference between Porzingis's
salary and you have to shed whatever it is that
gets you onto the second apron without Horford getting older,
the Christaps porzingis injury risk and I wonder if like
you could play Gianness without Horford, just bring him back,
and then they would use Jiannis at the five. I

(01:07:17):
have no doubt about.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
That, right, I mean, yeah, if you do, you want
to give Boston a stranglehold on the league for three years.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
A stranglehold would be can they game it where it's
Porzingis and Drew Holliday and they get Joannison figures they
finished beneath the second April.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
I also have a double standard there, because let's let's
face it, if he goes to OKC, that's probably the
same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Yeah, I'm trying. I think we've covered all the Is
there a team that if they won the lottery, you'd
want to see them dangle the number one pick for
your honest.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Oh right, let's see. Let's go to the tangathon.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Why is it Portland?

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Yeah, that's fun. That could be fun with Denny there,
with Scoot there, you have Donald Kling any fun. Yeah,
you'll pivot off Jeremy Grant immediately finally have an excuse
for it. You still have Simons, You'll have the role
player shade and Sharp is still there. That's fun. I

(01:08:19):
like that one. That's not bad.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
They feel like a dark horse. But I don't know
if that's the right move for where they are.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
Here's a fun one.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Oh, I know, I know the team you're gonna say,
because I was gonna bring them up next. I bet
you I can guess.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
Yeah, all right, the rators?

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
No, Oh, what is it?

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
Lebron?

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Look just Lebron for just three No, well we'll figure
it in.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
Like, look, Rob Bolinka, Like I know that basically Clutch
owns the Lakers at this point, but like he did
move ad and that came without warning, right right?

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
But has a no trade clause?

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
All right, he does? I keep forgetting like, for some reason,
I still have it stuck in my head that Bradley
Beal is the only one the league who does that,
who has that? All right? Fair enough?

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
And I guess if there's a I mean, if Milwaukee
just wants to put butts in seats, and Lebron is
wanting to come to Milwaukee, but if you could send
Lebron to they you're running into It's golden state. Would
be the team that he probably wants to go to.
Are they sending enough stuff to Milwaukee to make.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
Or New York? He's always had his eye on New
York as well.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
I'm not gonna lie after watching these Nicks and how
difficult they make life on the offensive end at times.
For offensives in the top five, I'd favor it. I
probably do.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
I wonder if you could actually go to Lebron and say, look,
we need to talk. You probably can't. Uh, Look, we'll
trade Browny alongside you. Don't worry, You'll stay together. That's
a promise. No, Milwaukee wouldn't do it. Milwaukee wouldn't do it, Like,
what's their incentive?

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Would Dallas dangle Anthony Davis for? Be honest? Are they
trying like all the picks with Derek Lively and salary?

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
But why would you do that. I'm trying to get
I'm trying to get Giannis in with a Euro here.
I'm trying to get Giannis along with Luca. Come on,
help me out.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
That'd be fun. It's not possible, I know. Is that
a real offer? Though? Dallas, Derek Lively, all the picks
they could offer, and then you're step laddering your way
there with salaries? Probably not a d Ad and Giannis
would be a defensive terror Ad becomes a vive again,
so he probably what's the trade.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Yeah, he's gonna be pissed. So that's not gonna work
out for anyone. You still have Kyrie, but he's gonna
be back.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
Like mid next year. Might be able to see the
vision I think in that circumstance at but like.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
We still don't know what state he's going to be
in Kyrie. I mean, that's risky. I don't like it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
That feels very I mean, especially because they were coming
off Kevin Durant a case, is coming off an injury.
That feels very Brooklyn nets esque, Like it's a different
side of the floor where it's interesting, but it's okay.
These dudes are a little bit older, and Kyrie's obviously
older I think than anyone on Brooklyn was at the time.
But I it wouldn't I mean, I mean, that's probably

(01:11:13):
not even one of like the top five offers that
would be on the table. I guess Derek Wiley and
all the picks. So it doesn't really.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
Mean again, I keep going back to the Spurs package.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
I think that's the one we talked about that we
don't need to go back.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
No, no, no, I know I keep going back to that
being the best one and that's the one you have
to beat.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
I think that Okay See or Houston are the only
teams that could beat it. But I think I mentioned
that before. A team that could beat it, it'd probably
be prided on where they end up in the lottery.
But Toronto, right.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
All right, so let's get into Toronto. You brought them
up a couple times.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
I think it's if they won the lottery, could they
talk themselves into right, here's this pick, we could move
other picks. There's some salaries, like just between r J
brent Ingram could be part of the magic salary going out.
They've already kind of said fuck the three point volume
or floor spacing aspect of this. When you look at
kind of how their core is built right now, they
just have a ton. They have a ton of digestible salaries.

(01:12:03):
I would say, don't want.

Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
To move Scottie instead of Inkram because of the floor spacing.
Remember what Scottie Barnes gives you. Giannis is gonna take
a lot out of like the all aroundlessness of Scottie
Barnes is not gonna be as big of an asset
alongside Giannis. He's gonna stand there a fair fairly significant

(01:12:28):
amount of time with just his thumb firmly placed up
his backside.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
I think if you had the number one pick, you
could maybe get away with Cooper flag and picks. And
you're keeping Ingram and Barnes to pair with Giannis, and
you're using the there's the Yakup Peertl salary, there's the
Archie Barrett salary, there's a manual quickly, but I think
he becomes super critical if you're bringing in Gianness. So
there would be ways for them to game. And we know,
like miss I's kind of had his eye, like at

(01:12:54):
least his side eye on Giannis for a while. M hm.
I don't hate the Yiannis Barnes pairing. I think that
Barnes could turn into like a better spot up shooter.
We've seen a little bit of it. Have we seen
enough you make the bet on talent figuring that one
out that would just be that would be one of
the more fascinating ones where I wouldn't feel immediately good
about him arriving there, but I wouldn't hate it if

(01:13:16):
they did it. Yeah, anything else you want to mention
before we get out of here?

Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
No, No, I'm I think we went through half the
league if not more on this one. And I'm still
very much sold on my personal trade package. Nothing that
has been said has convinced me of otherwise.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Sorry you nothing but humble. Why so why it's weird
to talk about in Houston and Okay s terms because
they're still in the playoffs. I do think if one
of those teams wanted, honest, they would just be in
a position to go get Giannis over San Antonio.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
That's my maybe maybe I'm alstiny you have they have
I think any of the young players that hoping young
players the Spurs, even if they're putting Steph Castle on
the table, you're not beating Shane gun or Am and
Thoms And I'd argue they're not even beating the Jabari
Smith junior if he's on the table.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
And to part with.

Speaker 3 (01:14:11):
Okay, now, this step too far. Okay s. He's the one,
like okay, see's the one that's That's the one where
I agree they can go in and get it. That's
where it comes down to, do they want to give
up Jadub? Like yes, if they want to give up
Jadab and all the picks, you're absolutely right, that's the
one to beat. Uh That can't be beaten. That's that's
the leader. The Rockets one I'm just not so sure of.

(01:14:33):
I still have a lot of questions about their individual
skill set as players. A lot of these guys, this
feels like a lot of them have major warts. I
do think the same can be said if the Spurs
players going out, But the Picks package is pretty significant.
And also I'm baking in that I assume it's not
going to be one of those cold ass trades where
Giannis has no idea where he's going. I have to

(01:14:55):
assume it's going to be a conversation and I'm pretty
certain if you're asking do you want to go to
Houston or San Antonio, He's going to go to the
Big Fellow.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
We'll be interesting to see how it plays out. You
want to tell our subscribers where they can find you
in all the work that you do.

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
Yes, sir, you can find me over at Blue Sky
at MSJ NPA, where I share links to the Danish pods,
my work at Yahoo, to the work at Forbes and
so on so and of course links to the NBA podcast,
where this episode will also be

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
Until next time, and as always, lead with the shout
out to the one, the only, the indelible frank Nila
Keina

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The Milwaukee Bucks Conundrum - Featuring Dan Favale

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Milwaukee Bucks Conundrum - Featuring Dan Favale