Trae Young Trade Breakdown - Featuring Dan Favale

Mort & Dan discuss the Trae Young trade.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
What is up, fella, sickos.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
I am Dana Valley coming at you with more Jansen
of the NBA Podcast, fame of Yahoo Sports, fame of HBO,
Max Fame, and of.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Course OnlyFans Celevity.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
We are here to talk about Trey Young being traded
to the Washington Wizards, as well as lupin our trade
deadline primer for both the Hawks and the Wizards. We
already recorded it for each team. We got about an
hour and a half of content between them that just
got absolutely dusted because as I was editing it, the
Trey Young trade went through. So you can consider this
your Trey Young trade reaction Hawks and Wizards fans and

(00:41):
general NBA fans, as well as the Hawks and Wizards
trade deadline primer, because we will be going through every
team on this channel. Trey Young was traded to the
Washington Wizards for CJ McCollum, Corey Kisspert, and zero draft picks.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
That's the thing everyone's talking about.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
I've seen a lot of I've seen a lot of
people say I can't, I'm in the minority, but I
really like this for Atlanta and those people feel like
they're in the majority at this point. More, which team
we want to start with the Wizards to break this
down from from there end. How did you feel about
this from their perspective? Well, I guess first and foremost,
how the heck are you doing? As I skip back,

(01:20):
I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Thank you so much. Look,
I actually gave both of them a B grade. I
think I gave Was it the Hawks that I gave
a B plus? I actually don't remember who I gave
a B plus?

Speaker 3 (01:34):
It was sorry close, Like, I don't think I have
a winner or a loser in this one. You and
I and I'm gonna I'm gonna reference a ton of
what we talked about yesterday on the podcast that got dumped,
because this is going to be brand new information for
people listening in. But what I said in that podcast
was there is really nothing in terms of like Washington

(01:57):
taking on this contract that bothers me, because they should
still have just oodles of cap space. They can go
in and try to extent Tray to a point where
he just doesn't pick up the player option and in
set signs for a specific amount. The number I felt
comfortable with was four years, one forty, with the potential

(02:17):
moving up to four years, one fifty.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
With them declining the player option, with him declining.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, with him declining the player option as part of
that negotiation. Absolutely, So I think that could be in
the cards. And I'm saying that without knowing for sure,
but like that wouldn't surprise me. And if that happens,
they should still have I think you actually made the calculations.
They should still have close to sixty million in cap space.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Right forty So the actual it turned out it was
like I think Bobby Marshad was forty five point nine,
So they're still working with more than forty million in
cap space. And it's funny because the podcasts that no
one will ever hear, we both kind of talked ourselves
not out of it for the Wizards, but we were
sort of done with the whole Oh this is fine.
I kind of I think maybe I saw it. Maybe

(03:06):
I'm just inherently contrarian now. I think I saw too
many people saying I really love this for the Hawks
with the Wizards doing and I get the risk involved,
and we'll get into the Trey Young fit of it all.
But when you're focusing on the finances like you were,
I operated under the assumption that they were going to
save Intlanta more money as part of this deal, because
you had other avenues of CJ. McCullum plus AJ Johnson

(03:28):
maybe plus another smaller contract. We've got more teams involved
to keep in Lanta further away from the tax than
they currently are now.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Getting off Kisspert, who's.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
A useful player, but I don't feel any which way
about his contract, Like paying him around fourteen million a
year is probably market value, maybe a slight overpay, it's
definitely not a bargain. And so he has another two
years and it's about twenty seven million left on his
deal after this one, with a club option for the
third year following that. To get off that deal in

(03:57):
the process, the way that the NBA's CBA now works,
you need to get to the salary floor before the season,
and so it was just you were never gonna just
one hundred million dollars in cap space. We're gonna save
sixty of it for the regular season. And so even
if Trey picks up his player option and you just
have this forty nine to fifty million dollar number, that's
like and that's what their cap space is based off

(04:19):
of the number that you mentioned if they sign him
to an extension, their cap space then goes through the
roof if he's declining his player option as part of that.
So I don't really think this took anything, especially while
getting the kiss Pert deal off the table and the
final point I want to make before getting into the
actual fit.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
I don't think we're gonna.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
See this fit until next season. And I think a
lot of people were worried. You know, the Wizards have
been a little friskier of late. Could they convey that
top a protected pick? I can't guarantee you even if
Trey Young plays in every single game once he makes
his debut moving forward, the Wizard's front office is not
gonna let that happen. This front office has been way
too smart with every step that they've made, which is

(04:57):
maybe also why I'm inclined to be SMI okay with
this trade for them, But I think they're gonna give him.
David Aldridge called it the brandon Ingram treatment to where
he got traded to the Raptors. They I don't think.
I don't think he'll extend right away. Maybe who does,
who knows? But he got traded to Toronto Raptors and
then they just shut him down basically for the season.
They could do the same thing with Trey Young if

(05:18):
they're worried about him making them better, and so just
knowing that the Wizards will do whatever to keep their
pick despite having acquired Trey Young, I'm more comfortable with
the idea behind the move now than I was, Like,
what was that eighteen hours ago whenever we.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Recorded, right, Yeah, I mean, look, I just generally am
not a posed to this thing because it was something
that we talked about yesterday as well.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
See, we're going to reference that pod, the Lost podcast.
We just want everyone to know that we were working still.
That wasn't a day off for us, right.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
But something that I said which you surprisingly agreed with,
because I actually think I said something clever for ones.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
I'm prepared to disagree now though, if it's any.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
Great great So I basically said that we as human
beings are far more open minded to changing our behavior
when we landed a new job, for example, So like
if the if the communication from the side of the
Washington and Trey Young arrives is, hey, look, we love
having you here. Let's try to work together to find

(06:26):
a way where we can optimize your potential, and they
actually have him leaning into more off ball stuff and
like integrating himself into the offense in a way that
he didn't do in Atlanta. That might be it like,
that might be something that could be looked at realistically.
It really comes down to Trey Young. And while I
do know that he's not necessarily someone who's adored within

(06:48):
the confines of a locker room, I don't think he's
like a cancer or anything. You know how we used
to label players that way. I was like, I don't.
I don't consider him of that ilk someone who comes
in and just rubs everyone the wrong way and it
just needs to go away. I don't think that's the
case in Atlanta. I think it was more of an

(07:11):
It was a salary situation, it was a fit situation.
I don't necessarily they all went around thought, look like
he didn't have value as a player or as a
human being. So now this is an opportunity for him
to also shit that and come into a new situation
say look, I'm here to play ball more.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
I think we have in the comments people saying they
can't hear you. So if you want to boost your
mic a little bit, if that's to me, I am
dan he is more. You can get us in the
comments and say you can't hear him, But I do
agree with the behavioral changes. You said that it's probably easier.
I kind of thought maybe bringing in Quinn Schneider would
have done that in Atlanta, like you changed the coach,
and maybe that has Trade doing more off the ball,

(07:51):
setting more screens. And we did see a little of that,
like last year the numbers. He set more off ball
screens than we've ever seen from him. That's great, but
we need to see him materially change that behavior even more.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
I'm very curious.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
I think you mentioned you were concerned about how do
we get Alex sar the ball more and easier advantageous positions.
He's done a heck of a job of scoring this year,
I think overall, but I'm absolutely in agreement with you
that Trey is going to make his job easier. Since
entering the league, Trey leads the entire NBA an assists
thrown at the rim and only Luka Doncic has thrown

(08:28):
more corner three point assists. That absolutely matters, and what
I think it really comes down to, so that element,
I think is going to help. Even for someone like
a Trey Johnson. We've seen him do a bunch of
things away from the ball. Keishawn George, I've been when
he's been healthy, the playmaking, I've been really intrigued by
what he could do. But he can do things away
from the ball. I think what's interesting is that Washington

(08:51):
doesn't have anybody that you should be overly concerned about
displacing from the ball. But that doesn't mean that you
want Trey Young on the ball for seventeen to twenty
one seconds of the shot clock. And that's what I'm
gonna be interested to see is not even how much
is Trey Young moving off the ball, but how long
are his touches lasting, how long are they getting in?
Is he getting them into their half court actions? I
think he tried at different points to do that in Atlanta.

(09:14):
But this needs to be more of a if this
is going to work, if they view this as more
of a we're trying to rehabilitate his value, maybe sign
him to a cheaper deal or use him as this
large expiring contract next year. If this is going to
be more than a fly by night stop for him,
this needs to be it, and I think, just to
build on your point about it changing scenery, I wonder

(09:35):
if the context of how he's changing scenery ends up
mattering to him, because if you think about the report
came out that Tray Young prefers to end up with
the Wizards, and my first response was, yeah, no shit,
who else is in the Tray Young bidding right now?

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Like, what is the other team he would prefer?

Speaker 2 (09:53):
And so maybe that is because it would serve as
a reality check to all of us if all of
a sudden we had an audience of one for this
podcast when we're publishing episodes, And so I'm wondering if
that maybe is a catalyst for him actually changing. But
I'm I'm intrigued, even if morbidly so, about how this
is going to work on the court. But I am

(10:14):
doubting more and more that we're gonna even see the
chance for it to work on the court this season,
at least extensively.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yes, uh, hopefully we will just see a smitch of it,
But I agree with you that it's going to be
going through a training camp and then it's the start
of next season. By the way, I hope my mic
is fixed because I can't turn it up anymore. So
here's hoping, here's hoping. But yes, that would be I
do think the Wizards would love to at least see him,

(10:41):
because otherwise you're stepping into a situation where he could
turn down the player option and just leave out, right, Well,
so and then so what yeah, yeah, no, sure, but
perhaps you're probably you're I mean, you're still training for
him because you want to see him on the floor,
I presume, right.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, But it's I mean, at the end of the day,
unless you thought CJ. McComb was gonna come back, or
you were you really thought Corey Kisbert was gonna get right, bal,
what you've done if Trey Young leaves is actually increase
your projected cap space from where it was before the trade.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
Right Yeah, I mean there's no downside, is what you're saying,
And and I agree with that, But like I had
to assume the Wizards are hoping that Trey Young is
you know, going to be an active player for them,
and it's going to be an on cord acid right right,
I still think the most likely path forward is an
extension where it's is it is it fair to say

(11:32):
significantly below when it's like, you know, forty five billion
a year. Is that significantly below what he's learning now?
And now you're muted.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
I guess my question would be, if you're not gonna
give him a chance to like fit in within the
larger context of a team this year at least, I'm
gonna be shocked if I said, let's set the over
under right now, because they have We're like almost halfway
through the season over under of Trey Young playing in
twenty one games.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
For the Wizards.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
That was very specific.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
For a real number.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
So that means that he will have to end the
year like playing roughly thirty games total. That's and he's
got a quad issue, well quad issue.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
He's coming back the MCL thing, that's real, and that
that's a truth entry to come back from. Yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
All right, no, screwge, I'm gonna give you this one under, right,
And so how do you give I know the Raptors
did it with Brandon Ingram, but this feels even more
like a tenuous situation because we kind of knew the
Raptors were attempting to be a relevant team in the
East next year.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
We don't know that that's the mandate in Washington. And
if you don't see, if you see Trey play fewer
than twenty, fewer than fifteen games with the bulk of
this young core, would you prefer, as the Wizards to
have him on an extension at that lower number or
just kind of go into next season with him? Is
this massive expiring contract and if it pans out, then

(13:04):
you worry about paying him or his or his free agency.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
M So I don't actually feels strongly either way. Like
I don't think there's one of these options that I
think is like notably more attractive than the other. Because
when you have Trae Young and what we were talking
about is forty five million flat on that deal, I
think that's tradable, Like it's still Tray Young. I think
I think we've leaned a little too heavy on the

(13:31):
weaknesses of what he is as a player, and or
I have reached that point where we're sort of ignoring
what he does give you after all. So, so like
Trey Young on forty five million a year, if that's
the number, because that was the number I was comfortable with,
I would I would feel better about that because then
I know what I have coming. I know I can

(13:52):
set up my cap around that I know what type
of money is coming in, I can better plan ahead.
I like I I wouldn't hate that opportunity. But to
your point, coming in and you know, playing around with
a almost fifty million dollar expiring contract, that could be fun.
You can break it into smaller pieces. You could do
a bunch of fun stuff with that. That's the question. However,

(14:16):
when is the last time we've seen, you know, a
lot of examples of players earning that amount of dollars
being actually used as an expiring contract and where the
scene trading away has gotten good assets.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Right, I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
It's the same thing when it says cap space can
be used to facilitate trades, and yes it can when
you're taking on salary that's being dumped. But it's never
look at all a cap space the Nets have they're
able to get Yannis and.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Return.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
So yeah, you're you're right, and you know, functionally speaking,
Trey Young was almost treated as an expiring contract here,
at least by the Hawks, and maybe they view getting
kiss Burt as part of the value, but no, he wasn't. Yeah,
that's incorrect, because they they seemed based on the offer
they accepted, terrified that he was going to pick up
his player option. That's my just didn't read on this situation.

(15:06):
I if I'm Washington, I need to see him play.
And that's the That's the push and pull here is
that you don't want to put your draft pick in jeopardy.
But it's not like the Hawks, who have a better
second best player than the Wizards have as a best
player if you remove Trey Young, just Jalen Johnson's better
than anyone on the Wizards right now. So if you

(15:27):
have Trey Young, you could probably still like juggle it
to wherever he's playing, but we're still gonna end up
with a bottom five record. Is what they need to
keep the pick that gives the Knicks a zero percent
chance of getting it.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
I need if I'm.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Going to extend him, I need I need to see
him play basketball. But I can't do what the Raptors
did with Brandon Ingram. I guess although the number you say,
if it's really like three for like one hundred and
five or four for one forty, I would be tempted
to just do it, just because that's row enough where
he's taking he's slated for what forty nine to fifty

(15:59):
next year, if he's making thirty five, I mean, he's
just shaved off like twenty five percent of his salary
or so, I man, that's tough. I don't I think
I would be surprised if they gave him an extension
because with the Raptors, unless he plays and it goes well, maybe,
but if he doesn't play, or if he's playing a
fewer than fifteen games or something. The Raptors did give

(16:20):
up a first round pick in that trade, and the
Wizards didn't like they really like they they didn't give
up any picks. There was rumors that did they need
to get picks to make this happen? And so I
do think they have a tangible interest in seeing how
Trey Young fits. But this isn't married to Trey Young
the way that I think the Raptors were to brandon

(16:40):
a right if that makes any sense, and.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
It doesn't, it does make sense. And that's what we
don't know yet, Like we don't know where the Wizzards stand,
and it's entirely when it comes to Trey Young. And
that's going to be interesting to track over thecoming what
it's like seven months?

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah about Yeah, I hope he plays this year because
now I just want to see him on this team.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
What else though?

Speaker 2 (17:06):
So if the Wizards view Trey Young as someone they're
gonna keep, this gets into Okay, how do they approach
the trade deadline?

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Now?

Speaker 2 (17:12):
What is it you're looking for? Do you think this team?
Is there any other business you'd like to see them
go about? They still have plenty of room beneath the
luxury tax they have after this deal. They took on
like one point seven million dollars, you have thirty million
beneath the luxury tax. So they have flexibility on the
trade market. They have Chris Middleton's expiring contract. There are
things they could do. What would you like to see

(17:33):
them do now that you know Trey Young is for
sure on this roster?

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah? So I don't want to go out and, you know,
go all out for a veteran. That's not what I
want to do. I don't want to use Chris Middleton
to go out and get some bonus for example.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
I don't you know what you do?

Speaker 2 (17:52):
You snipe the Hawks on Anthony Davis, Now that's what
they're that's what you do. I'm not advocating for that.
Anybody any Wizards fans that are out therapy.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
You know how I feel about acquiring Anthony Davis. So
we're not going to get into all that today because
that is besides the point. Or maybe we are because
we are we are actually, yeah, it's coming. I look
what I would like to do if I'm Washington, and
that's more of like a short term thing. I would
like more debt upfront, and especially defensive debt. Now is

(18:26):
that something that's super crucial to the success of this season?
Not really because you're trying to freaking lose, You're trying
to hold onto a traffic pick, But like, I also
don't want to see Alex Saar like get injured because
he has to do too much stuff both sides of
the wall. So like I would like to see someone
come in and just help out a little bit defensively

(18:48):
on the class something of that ilk that that wouldn't
be something I'll be against, are they?

Speaker 2 (18:54):
I mean this is interesting because then you're probably in
the realm of would you give up second picks to
make would you go after a day Ron Sharp?

Speaker 1 (19:02):
That's not some of the nets are looking at dump.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
That'd be interesting. What he's six' nine six ten, thereabouts,
right he's that. SMALL i thought he was six ten six?
Eleven my, god see is? HE i, MEAN i might be.
Wrong WHENEVER i watch him, PLAY i just feel like
he's a little bit on the short.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Side HIS i guess his body is just like he's
so strong looking that maybe that yeas.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
Sixteen, no he's six sixty, ten you're, Right, okay, okay
my my Fault Dayron, okay that's, Fine I'll i'll lay
down and accept lame. Here that would be interesting because
he fits the. Timeline he just turned twenty. Four, yeah
was he had like six million or something along those.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Lines, YEAH i mean they could match. THAT i think A.
J johnson plus something done and there's.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yeah, yeah that wouldn't be a.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Problem, yeah maybe Even, again getting to the, money you're
probably looking at different teams because, now now what's interesting
about The wizard's situation is they don't have their best salary.
Matching you don't want to trade any of the actual
young guys that are making sort of the middle rung
salaries at this. Point so you have Either Chris, middleton

(20:10):
who's making thirty three point three, million and then after,
THAT i would say the next most expensive expendable player
Is Malachi branham has that five million dollar.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Five million is looking at restricted free, agencies so like
they might want to try to get out of that as,
well just pivot off of. Him he'stop playing that a whole.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
LOT i guess, honestly if you combine him with you
combine his salary with Aj, johnson so you're looking at
eight point one million in total with the money that
they can actually. Take but they can actually get a
pretty reasonably.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Priced player at. That i'm trying to.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Save any other names spring to, mind there's NOT i,
Mean Robert williams the third be pretty easy to match.
THIS i think the two names we named get it.
Done not yeah without, picks but, WAY i mean he's
playing this, season he is relative to his track, record.
Right would you be interested in a lightly to moderately

(21:06):
Use Mitchell robinson as a backup to sarn maybe some
minutes where they played it, Again, yes.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
YES i would with The. Knicks would The knicks be
willing to pivot?

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Off?

Speaker 3 (21:15):
Well?

Speaker 2 (21:16):
There, so WHAT i will say about The knicks front
office is that they have historically traded guys that they
don't want to pay moving forward and so if they're
terrified of his next, CONTRACT i would expect them to trade.
Him and if they don't trade, HIM i almost expect
him to sign a deal before he reaches free.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Agency we.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Mentioned let's reference the PODCAST i will ever Hear E'S
mesi a little smaller six' nine might not be A
bad i.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
Would again you could throw fifty different centers at Me
and i'd probably be very receptive, to it because my
entire focus point here is just Not Letting alek sar
stand with that much responsibility on. The, SHOULDERS well.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
I think the AYAH and i guess you're right they
maybe you could talk yourself into needing more perimeter, defensive
juice but You, Have blake george. Is Fine justin champenni.
IS good i guess if you wanted a like a guard,
stopper type Like A chris dunn on this team to
go muck ship up on the Floor, With trey i'm
Like bub Carrington Or trey johnson isn't necessarily gonna do that, For?

Speaker 3 (22:17):
You right do? We want do we? Want that if you're.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Just as an as, An option i'm not saying you
need To Play chris DUNN or, I Mean jamal shad
would be interesting on, this team like play one of
those guys over Bub Or, trey johnson but just to
have that tool in. Your, belt ooh he'd. Be good
kean ellis be interesting. To, us, yeah, Yeah GO but
I think i think That's the i'm with You on

(22:45):
it be cool to see a big just to someone
Who's Not marvin Bagley Or tristan Vuksovich behind. Alex R
maybe i think sars dynamic and off offensively that this
would not be my Default If I'm, brian keith but
you could play him alongside pretty much any big at.
This stage with the way that he shot the ball,
THIS year. I agree do you final thing On. The

(23:05):
wizards do you expect them to do anything else that
you'll clock in, your head or do you think this
is gonna be a relatively quiet, Trade downline maybe they
take on they've kind of already shown they're not afraid
to take on money for. NEXT year i could see
them still going that route if they're gonna get compensated.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
For, it yeah so it seemed that just. Did this
i'm not closing the door on them doing, something ELSE
but i don't think they're in a rush to. DO
anything i don't think they're gonna panic their way into
the trade to find, and, say oh we need To
Flip chris midleton for something because he's an expiring and
like we have to utilize that. Cap slot, LIKE no
i think this is a question of waiting and reading.

(23:45):
The market, like again they Gave up ce McCollum And
corey kisbert. For, trade yawk, That's it like that's a trade.
You do that's a trade you don't even think twice
about because, it's, like yeah. It's fine so if there's
a deal that pops up that is so richridiculously lopsided
for from, their PERSPECTIVE then i expect them to. Pursue

(24:05):
it but if, THERE isn't i think they're just fine
saying this will? Our deadline would they?

Speaker 2 (24:13):
This, isn't Yeah They andre Drummond And quint capella fit
Into That jonnas valancunas trade exception on two teams that
might be looking at. Duct attacks that might be something
they they could.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Look At but i'm with you, playing right like he's
not playing a whole bunch doesn't feel, like.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Well they mean they have like how many Bigs does
houston technically have So.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
And austin's comment think About the hawks are about to get.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
To them the Final thing i'll say On the WIZARDS
is i think part OF why i do feel COMFORTABLE
is i Know that timdansis is still the owner of,
this team But The michael Winger And will dawkins led.
Front OFFICE and, I mean i guess it's if you're
a little uneasy Because The travis slank Link, to trey
if that makes you a, little unsettled do you think
they're going to pay him more than? They should we
could talk, about IT but i just trust the way

(24:56):
this front office has taken steps so Far that i'm
open minded about. This act like If the kings had,
done this, YOU absolutely i absolutely it was gonna. Ether
them but they But the wizards. DOING it i think
that they have an actual plan or, an idea a
realistic idea of what this could do for him And
other i've heard in some of the reactions people talk

(25:18):
about this and, it matters. You know shout Out to,
matt mcderno friend of the podcast Over At Believe, in
wizards did mention From The puts butts in. Seat standpoint
he talked a lot about seeing Jerseys of LaMelo BALL
around dc of seeing jerseys of. Other players you don't
See alex aar jerseys around there. As Much trey young
still kind of has, That appeal and if you Want

(25:41):
the wizards to just be a little bit, more interesting
IRRELEVANT with i think out obliterating everything that they've put,
in place there are way worse things that they could
that they could have, Done here And so i'm willing
to give Even though i'm not sold entirely on, The
fit i'm willing to give this front office and right
now a ton of leeway the benefit of a.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Doubt same would.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
You like to talk About The atlanta hawks end of
the trade for this They Got corey KISBURT. And.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Cj McCollum were you at all surprised by.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Or maybe you didn't see these reactions as MUCH as
i did the mass Amount of, You know i'm in the,
minority HERE but.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
I really love this For.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
THE hawks i was surprised at how many people actually did.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Love it For.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
THE hawks i thought it was at LEAST worth i
gave THEM a c PLUS when i, grated IT and
i Gave the WIZARDS a B plus over a.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
BLEACHER report i thought it.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
WAS fine i think that there's value in getting Out
Of trey young's player option because you were going to be,
you know now, you go you might have twenty five
plus million in cap space if You Renounced canard porzingis the.
Whole nine and if you put trays fifty million ish on,
the books you're all of, A, sudden oh can we
Re sign porzingis and stay under the tax and continue
to add to. Our team but let's also kind of

(26:53):
not forget the two things that are standing out to
Me Is trey young is shouldering an awful lot of
blame For this hawks season for someone who's only appeared in.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Ten. Games correct, and.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
Two this is something, where like how long have we
been Having The tray young Conversation?

Speaker 1 (27:09):
In atlanta feels like two to, three years.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Four years. Four years the point.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Being this Is, not oh with the benefit, of hindsight
they would have moved. Him sooner it seemed very clear
that they weren't completely married to him for. A while
they waited past the pinnacle of his value to where
you're not getting any.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
PICKS now i just think the optics on that are.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Unless you're gonna sit here and tell me that in
twenty twenty four they couldn't have gotten a single draft
Pick For. TREY young I don't i understand. THIS deal
i don't KNOW that i. LOVE it i don't know
That the hawks are a slight net positive with barely
a league average offense this Year When trey young is off,
THE court i don't. KNOW that I think corey kisspertin,
seek him call, him FIT but i don't know that

(27:53):
they diversify your.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Attack enough To where atlanta.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Is better, to me this was more about dredging up
more flexibility into. The summer and that's rather than maybe
even give it a grade or a final verdict that
FEELS very tbd, to me it's what do they parlay this.
Flexibility INTO so i looked at it a little. BIT
differently i Gave the HAWKS a b plus or. A
jahoo and THE reason i did is because they found

(28:21):
in an arcic type of GUARD who i think Works Alongside.
JALEN johnson i THINK getting ct mccollumy in there is
basically the perfect player to Pair, with Johnston, With Nikhiel,
alexander Walker With John, Jiaco Kungu, sagarary rushachet. Those guys
so my thinking here is they are going to basically

(28:43):
be able to just gather so much data as humanly
possible on having a type of combo guard who isn't
your Lead Playmaker jalen, johnson is but who can take
over playmaking duties when he, Needs to someone who offers
a some space, in gravity someone who is able to
play off, the ball someone who won't monopolize. THE offense

(29:07):
i think this is LIKE. If cj McCollum had been
just five, years younger this would have been the perfect
fit and, long TERM but i still think they can
use him for now and use like his archet type
in terms Of, identifying okay this is what works alongside
these guys like this is the type of player we need,

(29:29):
to identify just on a, younger scale and trying to
figure out how can we find this guy who Works With,
dyson daniels Works With, gale johnson works With The keelexander Walker,
on Yokungo Potentially. Chris tops we don't know what's gonna
happen with that contract, moving forward but like that has
to be part of.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
The CALCULUS so I personally i love it, for That
but i'm also worried that they're gonna fuck it up
and go Trade For. Anthony davis but that's a that's
a talk for to live down.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
The Road this chams did put out there that they're
lining themselves up for a bigger move and or might
still be In On. ANTHONY davis i, would, argue now
had They Traded trey YOUNG. For cj McCollum And aj
Johnson Or, MALACHI brandham i would, Have, said okay now
they can DO the i don't know what the pick

(30:19):
cost would, have been but they Can Do porzingis canard
SMALL salary X For anthony davis and remain under.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
The tax they can't do that now because you CAN'T.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Aggregate cj McCollum Or corey kisbert alongside, other players and
so you if you're not willing To Include, zachary RESISCHE
which i. Am not to, Be clear i'm not saying.
THEY should i wouldn't include him In An anthony. DAVIS
trade i think it's way too early to say we're
just out on. This guy AND also i don't want
a Part Of anthony davis and there he'd be Interesting.
In atlanta but now that the more they look at.

(30:49):
This roster i'm like he'd be more Interesting. In Atlanta
christophs porzingis was, still there and so it's Him And
jaellen Johnson And. Christops porzingis YOU'RE being kp off the
bench and then you kind of. Paper over we KNOW
both kp and eighty a're gonna, miss time but there's
just unless they're putting recessche on. The Table this hawks
team is not paying. The tax what do we Know about.
Hawk's ownership it's not it's not. Flippant HAPPENING so i

(31:11):
think an ad trade is off the, Table now but
is it off the table over the summer when they
could have twenty five plus million dollars in cap space
to build a. LOPSIDED trade i, just now if you're
gonna go to the cap, space route you DON'T. Have
cj McCollum or kp on. Your books so then who's
the magic salary in?

Speaker 1 (31:30):
That trade Is It?

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Dison daniels all of, A sudden THAT'S why i need
to see what this flexibility. Turns INTO and i do
agree with a lot of what you SAID. About cj
mccoum being an easier fit with Not Only jalen johnson,
but now you can you Know the hawks having all
these other secondary ball handlers In, The Keith alexander Walker
And dyson Daniels Plus. JALEN johnson I think jj is

(31:52):
the only one caliber of player who's equipped to run
like that's that's an, alpha type but okay to help
that and. HE'S not i don't think he makes guys around,
him better but he'll draw attention when he's on, the
ball so that will help out other guys on. The
team but what does this team need now moving forward
or what is the direction for it. MOVING forward i

(32:14):
don't think we're gonna necessarily find out at the.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Trade deadline this is not.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
A deal if they were in the market for a
higher End big they've been mentioned For A vita zu box.
As well this trade doesn't like negate that need AND
they i think you could also argue you need Another
Non jalen johnson at least someone who's close to a
primary playmaker or floor general, type now because no one

(32:38):
else on the roster unless you really Believe In Nikhil,
Alexander Walker vic fraichie Or Or dyson. Daniels himself they
just don't have that. Right NOW and i want to
throw it to you to prompt you to bring up
a name for free agency that you had brought up in.
The podcast no one will Ever Hear. Austin reeves do

(33:00):
you think that that is still someone that they should
have so they'd have to carve out, More space but
is that someone that they should, Have circle does that
still a name that you like for this team now
that you've seen this trade?

Speaker 3 (33:08):
Go, down yeah. ABSOLUTELY So, I look i Know That
austin reeves takes a lot of, shit for, you know
the lack of defense that he's, you know primarily an offensive.
DRIVEN player i agree, With that.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
But do you think he plays more Defense Than? TREY yung.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
I do. THINK that i do think the size alone
is going to be more of. An Advantage but i'm
just looking at a guy who is playing a ton
of pig and, roll basketball who can also spot up
if he, needs to who is very capable of setting up,
his teammates who is very capable of getting to, the
basket who's getting to the, foul line but he's doing
so within the fabric of the team offense instead of,

(33:48):
just launching, you know pull up threes from the logo
more or LESS so i would Love For austin reeves
to join. THIS roster i think that would be a
tremendous fit because he'd be that secondary slash Primary when
jalen is, sitting playmaker, play initiator or someone who can
just make. Things happen like they can play in conjunction with,

(34:10):
each other they can. PLAY separately i think that's how
a guard would be superb.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
For, THEM frankly i think what you get in the
issue of so do you think it'll take if he's
Leaving THE lakers maxi money to? Get him, PROBABLY right
i mean that's forty one zero point five. Million dollars
they need to figure out a way to come up
with another like fourteen to fifteen million bug you could
sign and you could.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Make it work via sign, AND trade. I suppose but
that's where it.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Gets dicey AND so i think that's also the challenge
here is the guard market overall this summer is not.
Especially deep if you were looking for a big man
on the, open market you're probably gonna have a better
chance of filling that void than of going to get.
Another guard and so are they gonna Have to. I'm
wondering i'm almost wondering if should there be an urge

(35:00):
and see, for them because if they don't address it
at this trade deadline where you COULD.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Trade cg McCullum on his.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Standalone deal you also Do have KP's, expiring contract You,
have canard You, have kisspert you could trade him alone
should there be maybe an urgency while YOU have i
would say a surplus of salary matching tools to try
and find a player of, that caliber because if, YOU
don't i don't know that that player is going to
be available for the cap space range they're going to

(35:26):
be in. This summer so you put yourself in a position, to,
where well we have to sign these other contracts with
the intent of them becoming trade ballast down, the line
whether it's the twenty twenty seven trade deadline.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
OR beyond i think that's a really good question, to
ask because you're right, it again going into, free agency
we just don't know WHAT shakes, ofuf right like we've seen,
it before the cap, space plan how often does that
really work even for like teams that are, you know high,

(36:00):
market teams big, market teams some of them even fall
through once in, A while like they'll spend years saving
up money for a specific summer and, they'll go we're
gonna get a superstar because we're The Goddamn Los angeles
lakers or whatever. It was and then they ended up
with a long nose, because nope. They weren't like they
just completely. Flamed out and if it can happen to everyone,

(36:21):
like that it's not necessarily a. Staple PLAN so i
do think that they have to exercise every single opportunity that,
they have or at least theorize. About it have. Some
meetings if you can flip, you know On Ye ko
kongo with, someone else, for example and turn that into
a major, balloon package like you give up your entire.

(36:44):
BigMan DEATH so i was about, to, Say oh Kongo
and KP's that's suddenly giving up your BigMan. Rotation altogether
but like you catch my trist if you can gather
a couple, of contracts stitch them together for something big
and there's something there. That's, INTERESTING yeah, I mean i
don't think they're. Against that i'm not. Against that it just,

(37:04):
to me the entire crux of the issue comes down
to does, this player whoever that player is Fit With
jalen johnson's specific, playing style because that has to be
the revolving question now that we're talking about in every
future transaction, for them at least over the, next year,
two years, three years maybe that has to be the
question does this player Fit With? JALEN johnson i think that's.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
The Question but i'm also find myself wondering what's the
bare minimum level of player they need in, that spot
because it's not you're not gonna say if they were,
To trade i'm just gonna thrown names Here For, Jose,
alvarado right that's not gonna do it, for, You, right.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
No we were talking about it because we did a
long podcast yesterday With Like. Kobe white we Brought up
kobe as a a. PLAY broke i believe you said
that would be a, player who, while good felt a
little small in terms of, like, scale right And Like
austin reeves fit more along like the the star caliber

(38:06):
player you're.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Looking, FOR yeah i think he just does More like
kobe fits away from. The ball but if you were
looking to like, be dynamic like dynamic movement away from,
THE ball I Think austin reeves does a lot more.
Of That By, Koby, white yes you KNOW what i
hadn't given this. Much thought he's injured, right now so
this would be an. Offseason thing but this team is,
getting expensive and if they're going to Resign tar Easan

(38:28):
And van fleet picks up that, player option isn't he
just flat? Twenty five that could be interesting if they.
WERE willing I maybe land has to give, up something
or maybe they. Get off maybe It's kiss Bert for
Fred van fleet at that point that might. Be AN
he's i know he's getting older and coming off, an
injury but that you want to talk about someone who.
WOULD fit i don't know if he's a level of
playmaker you'd normally want.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
And, EFFICIENCY wise i don't. Love it fair it's he's,
So small like that's also. A name, you're small? He's
small is he Smaller Than? Trey?

Speaker 1 (39:01):
Young? Right yeah he.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Is, smaller yeah he's like he's he's sturdier and like
he's he's, you know he has like what about forty
Pounds on trey? After all that's like that's, Fair enough
but at the, same time like this is a guy
who routinely hits like forty seven thirty eight percent from the.
Field overall AND while i appreciate that a large percentage

(39:23):
of his shots. Are threes i'm still not in love
with his offensive game in terms of like being an
off ball guy and coming off the. Major, Injury like
i'm seeing some, Red FLAGS but i don't hate. THE
name i think that was like the. Right, approach YEAH there's,
I mean I'd Love. PEYTON pritchard i just can't See

(39:43):
the celtics trading him as contra.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Great good he would. Be perfect he'd. Be, perfect yeah he'd.
Be perfect now is this too big of. A name
let's say this team, flames out which is not a
stretch because it's. Now, Happened, OKAY yeah i was Gonna
Say arius garland if he.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
BECOMES available.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
I hate to ask, this Question Is Darius garland is
he the same caliber of name now that he was a.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
YEAR ago i still think, of maybe with the Exception.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Of reeves at, THIS moment I Like darius garland is
the best player that.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
We've, NAMED look I Love, darius GARLAND but i mean
there's beginning to be an injury pattern pattern. That's, emerging
yeah if, HE could i ACTUALLY could i take a
moment to Appeal To darius garland In The cleveland. CAVALIERS
organization i would love it if he would throw fewer,
jump passes just because it feels like he's asking to

(40:42):
injure his toe on, Those landing like does he just
want to continue to injure his feet stay on, The ground,
my guy we don't.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Need you we don't need you playing off.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Your feet. That's, FAIR yeah i hope he listens that.
That too like he is also the type of leek
GUARD that i think would Fit. In, ATLANTA frankly I Think,
darius garland, if healthy fits on, Most teams like he
was the POINT guard i had circled Before the spurs
Went After, tieran fox, for example but Like the cavaliers

(41:11):
were finding, their groove like it wasn't realistic at that point,
In Time but garland was the guy, For me like
he would just fit so seamlessly offensively onto so. Many
TEAMS so i don't think that's a bad name to
to throw into.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
The mix what about he's not when you're looking at
the playmaking of. It all you Mentioned, the spurs which
is why he kind of just popped into. My Mind
But devin vessel, mm hmm we seem to do a
little more playmaking on different iterations Of.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
THE spurs i mean the PLAY so i WOULD trust,
I look I Love, DEVIN missel i trust CURRENT AGE.
C j McCollum moore with the ball in. His HANDS
that i Do devn missel SO at i don't think
there is that playmaking chops OR like i think he
is more of like a one to two triple pull.

(42:04):
Up guy, if anything could he expand himself a little
bit More in atlanta so we can see if there's.
Something there not ruling, that out but it does feel
Like the spurs have given him ample opportunity to showcase
that where it's just. Not HAPPENED so i don't know
what to put.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
In that you know?

Speaker 2 (42:24):
What's interesting the names we're, throwing out we haven't. Even
considered you Just Traded trey young and like your future you?
Have flexibility do you have a lotty, They're signed You've Paid,
dison daniels You've Paid. Jon johnson we haven't even. Considered
that Are the hawks like taking a more gradual? Approach
here we're just like they're being Linked To. Anthony davis
should they go after a big Name big should they
go after A current all star guard or just a

(42:45):
much BETTER guard i think that that's the direction they're gonna,
Ultimately Take but i'm just curious, As that like should
they be in the market for some OF these i
don't even want to call them Second draft i'd be
Like a rob dilling him taking a flyer. On him
or If the sixers want to get Rid of, Jared
McCain like should that be something they're willing to look
at or is it you want more bankable value at

(43:07):
this point because you have paid some of these.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Guys already, SO.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
No, I mean i'm always of the opinion that you should.
Explore Everything Like, ROB dillingham i would be interested, in that,
but like given how little data we have on him
Because the wolves just aren't, Playing him it's it's one
of THOSE situations i could see go, South quickly like
how many times did we not see someone go for
a second draft guy where we're all, got like oh,

(43:33):
my god they, got him and then that player just
flamed out and turned. Into Nothing like i'm old enough
to Remember the bulls Trading for Jimmer, For dead like
that didn't, work, Out sir Like.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
That's Hardwoo knocks Podcast guest Jimmer for dead was on
this podcast.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
All, RIGHT well, i, mean, look hey Good. On jimmer
that's got to be a career highlight because she's sure
a cell wasn't playing For.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
The bulls, Oh.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Man, i'm sorry but Like To, rob dillingham like there's
just not enough date on the kip yet to a
Point where, i'm, like yeah go. For it like he's
played seventy.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Nine games that's the point of a second, draft, Guy
though so what you're saying is That the hawk should
not be in that type of.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
A market the whole idea of a second draft Guy.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Is willingham have played in one hundred and twenty games
and sucked even more because.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Then you have.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
The, data, no no, but no not. Not necessarily But
what i'm SAYING is i need something. IN between I
think i don't need the fully, fletched STAR but i
also need something WITH where i have a little bit
more knowledge of. The SITUATION like i understand what. You're
saying it comes down, to, Compensation right like what can
You Get rob dillingham? For now we're just gonna use

(44:48):
him as, An example like what is going to be the?
PRICE tack i have, no, idea right if it's like a, First,
rounder no Frickin way i'm.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Doing, that no, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
THAT'S yeah i mean maybe it's a three team thing
Where like minnesota Is getting ayah and you're Getting dealing
ham and sending seconds to the BULLSER because i think
other teams would Value dilling cam less Than. The wolves
know what they invested to Get dialing ham at. Number
Eight the boys would.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Be like receiving. Draft picks what? Is that that's a.
Foreign concept what are we what are we supposed to do?

Speaker 2 (45:21):
WITH these i do ultimately think that If the hawks
are still trying to make something of, this season they
shouldn't be reckless at the, trade deadline but they should
be poking around, the names like Even A, cam spencer
what does it take to get him from like to
come plug in play this this year doesn't, cost like
doesn't cost you this long. Term flexibility but that does
feel like a missing piece of. This team Although maybe i'm.

(45:42):
Just wrong maybe getting Rid Of trey young and fully
leaning Into The jalen johnson experience and getting SOMEONE. Like
cj McCollum prompts this second half of the. Season surge.
I'M skeptical i think Maybe the hawks end up being
a little bit better because they get natural Progression, from
well What if resis? Is better What If dyson daniels
does a little bit more?

Speaker 1 (46:03):
On?

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Offense uh? WHAT if i guess you could also say
What If Meikie alexander walker? Gets worse that would. Be
something What If, jalon, johnson though just continues to get
better With christophs porzingis is. More Available so i'm open
to the idea that they could, Be better but this trade,
in general, to me it's either underwhelming or skews very
HEAVILY towards i just need to see what they do

(46:23):
with the newfound flexibility that, they prioritize because That's how i'm.
Reading this do have one final topic that we need to,
get to what should there be any other teams that
are looking at this tray young trade and scared shitless
as to what their star or fringe star, Trade value
like they're approaching a decision to where maybe we should

(46:47):
look at moving this guy now or did we already
missed the boat? On it, OH man i have. A
name it better be the.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
RIGHT name i think, it IS and I think heat
fans are going to be pissed. At, Me.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
BAM so i thought you were gonna Say, Job, morant.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
No no well that that secret. Is out he doesn't
have value just because of what happens off.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
The floor But if I'm, the grizzlies it kind of.
JUST reinforces, i, guess like do we just keep him
because that's what it's, gonna.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
Like, Gone right, oh yeah they're not Gonna get jack shipped.
For Him they're they're. Just NOT but I think miami
for a long While had bam pegged as someone who
they could probably get four or five draft. PICKS for
i don't think that's. True, anymore like, you, know again
these players with significant warts in, their games and let's

(47:37):
just be real. About it bam has a ward in
his game that's called. Offensive execution he is not great.
At it he's, scoring wise he is very pedestrian. Defensively
fantastic does you know when we talk about players would
do the, little things he literally does all of the.
Little Things so i'm not trying to say that he's
not a great, basketball player but he comes with, a ceiling.

(47:59):
Especially Offense, so miami who's probably spent, years, thinking, oh
yeah we whenever we need, to pivot we can lock
in at least like three high quality first round draft PICKS.
FOR bam i don't think that's that's out. There, Anymore NO.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
And i think especially when he's on his, new deal
that changes a lot of because. It's easier so let's
Use Even john Morant Or LaMelo ball because they're making
so much Less Than trey young, right now might be
easier to talk to yourself and them. GETTING value i
have another name to throw out for the, same reason
and it's.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Probably more of.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
An issue it's just it's an, issue now would be
more of an issue when his deal starts.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Next Year Jared. Jackson junior you want to talk about
holes in the game.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
A lot now you're just setting. Me up. That's, UNFAIR
well i.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Have another ONE that i don't think is probably. Being
taught and this team is good But.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Con.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Anthony towns but he has two years left on his
deal after, this one with a sixty plus million dollar
player option on that. Second season if You're, the knicks
and this IS why i would advocate for teams to,
do this is you need to negotiate and point to
players like these deeply flawed big Names Like, Trey Young,
John Morant. Coronathy towns you need to be pushing to

(49:13):
get extensions done that lower their average. Annual value so
that makes it one easier for you to build out,
your team but two maybe more appealing as a, trade
asset because you don't want to run into a situation
Like the hawks just Did With trey young to where
it's the fun they waited too long to, move him
and it's he's in the technically the quote unquote final
year of his deal or has that huge, player option

(49:34):
and you just have to take a bath on.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
His VALUE and i know that.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
PEOPLE think i Think karnthy town is a, good example
but like what is he four time Three TIME all,
Nba player like that seems insane and what, he does
the driving and the shooting is still anomaloist at. His
position we don't know if he can be your center in. The,
playoffs Still the wolves decided it needed To Be. Rudy
Gobert the nickson banded about does it need to Be
mitched can we get away with him at? The five

(50:00):
that is something like that's one of the Situations, where Okay,
Bam Adebayo Jaron, jackson junior they have more years left on.
Their Deal but i'm now Watching The Karl anthony town
situation even, more Closely Including john morantz.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
As WELL but i think that this was sort.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Of a this kind of proved the shift of a
certain type of star if they're on a certain type.
Of Contract Where daron fox was still kind Of on
he's on that, first max so it's just easier to
get value out and to, be fair like he, was
performing he was performing way Better Than trey young was
at the Time That trey young. WAS traded i think
we're gonna See a we've already kind of seen a

(50:35):
shift in how.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
These teams want to or will pay.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
THESE players i think we're gonna see even more of
a shift on how they're valued.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
In, TRADES.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Yeah i very. MUCH agree, i look this is a
point that when our Mutual Buddy brian SUPPORT and i
DID the nba podcast together for practically, ten years this
is something we talked about, at length and this what
you're basically saying connects very beautifully with the thirty five
percent max that is eligible after you played your. Tenth

(51:07):
year like if you're a tenth year, of service it
never made freaking sense that the time that you were
earning the most money was when you were initiating, a,
decline right it just never made a whole bunch. Of
sense now we're seeing guys who are approaching the ten
year years of, service marker and teams, ARE, Like whoa

(51:28):
like that thing is. Coming up that is not something
we want to get into, because like we don't want
to pay someone who's like forty two, forty three thirty
four sixty, million dollars like forty five percent of. The
cap that's just not something we were interested. In doing
and that's the correct way to look. At it, SO
yes i do think there are always going to be

(51:48):
some asshole in the league who's going to max someone an,
old guy and then that's going to be what agents
use as, you know a, directive, say look Look The.
Sacramento kings just there's, maxed out, You Know damian lillard, or,
whatever right like something something's. Gonna happen someone's gonna do,
that thing and then agents everywhere are, gonna, GO yeah

(52:11):
i want that from my. Guy too but that's where
the league at large just has, to, say no you
know you want, that money go find it, somewhere Else
because i'm just not going to put my organization, through
that which is Also why i've been so against the
well Training For. ANTHONY davis i wrote this Over At
yahoo sports A basic i actually wrote an article which

(52:32):
is all about stay Away From anthony davis because, of
that the, salary commitment the fact that he's, getting older
the fact he's not the lack, of availability and He
And clutch sports are also fishing for an Extension where,
I'm like i'm not extending you, At all like, You
No you're I'm not and.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Are we still waiting or?

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Did it has it quietly Happened With james harden when
you look at the contracts that he's signed since Leaving,
The Sixers because i've tried to look at WHAT'S the
i thought it was Gonna Be Jaron. JACKSON junior i
thought it was gonna Be. Dearon Fox now i'm looking
at it, as, Oh Okay. Trey young if he signs
a new deal With, the wizards that would be one to,
monitors like because we're still sort of waiting to see

(53:12):
the star That's NOT and i Would Say james harden's.
Just older but the star who's maybe not yet, thirty
four thirty five and older is there gonna be more
of a, negotiation there but maybe it's already, quietly happened
like we've just seen It With james harden as his
annual value has not been as high as it as it.
COULD be I Think trey young will still be a
good flashball moment for That because i'm Assuming the wizards

(53:35):
are not going to maxim out whether they extend him
or wait until twenty twenty seven, free agency but we're
still sort of waiting. For.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
That first we've seen it.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
WITH trades, i mean even Happened With luka doncic was
Maybe That nico harrison was out of, his mind but
he was worried about paying, this star like paying.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
This amount of money for a guy in. His, prime
again that. Was unique yeah that. Was dumb yeah that.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Was dumb but, like now we've seen it now happen
a few times with trade values or even trades that
haven't happened Because Oh, John moran, LaMelo ball they're still
On the hornet's not that those teams were actively, shopping
then but it doesn't seem like these mega offers were
out there. For them the Fact That trey young was
On the hawks as long as he did speaks. To
it i'm still sort of waiting for. That, first oh
this is a star kind of in his he's still in.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
His prime but there was a negotiation.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Happening here it's not His, fun max it's that In
between max or even that thirst contract that. He signed
brunton was that, was, Different, right yeah they would have,
Given him, yeah exactly, he's.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Yeah but, like that, you're right that. Wasn't negotiation but
like he took twenty two percent of, the cap that's.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
He was he.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Took them he took the max he Could, on well
he could, have waited, and god he could.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Have, waited yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
You're, RIGHT like i THINK every nba team just applauded
Like what jalen did because that's that's what they're hoping
to see out of a lot. Of players it's, just,
oh oh like my primary guy is accepting like twenty
two twenty three percent of the. Salary cap.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
THAT'S so i think that was unique though in this
sense of one they employ, his dad and then two
he came from just his career arc was not the Same.
As trey It's like trey was billed as THIS all
nba talent from, the Jump and brunson not that he stumbled,
into stardom but he could him more so than some

(55:21):
of these other guys can look at it and worry
about the floor for falling out from, Underneath him like
What if i'm just a bad season away from perception.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Completely flipping this is ALSO why i didn't love The darn, fox,
Extension honestly like that was a lot of money for
someone who is quickly.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Approaching, THIRTY right i wonder if now context matters. With
everything the fact that you don't have To like wemby
isn't going to be more expensive until the season. After
next so now you've already ticked off what two years
of That dearon fox extension by then when you start
to get. More expensive is that right?

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Or wrong there was.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
Only one year because you, only, oh sorry. One, year yes.
You're right So when wempy's new deal hits in twenty seven,
Twenty eight fox will be arning almost fifty, four million
that will jump to fifty, eight million and then chop
out at sixty almost sixty. Two million but you get.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Kind of two years because the women gets more expensive
and then so you have a little bit. Of time
so it's like that situation can. Game it but you
could certainly look at year three and four, and, go
oh cast, hole exactly we'll be more expensive by That
point harper as well by the end of.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
That, deal yeah but.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Maybe they've timed it just right to where you might
have one or two years because if he's an expiring
contract in theories at least easier. To move so there
might be just be one or two. Awkward years but that's,
the exception that's not. The rule this perfect exactly uniquely
built to and it's also just maybe we've seen It.
With houston they negotiated every single like With, Durant Alprin

(56:55):
Shangun Jabari. Smith junior nobody just came in there and
got like all. His money, all right it's a, good
play you.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Have to and here's the thing that people don't seem,
to understand because a lot of people, are, saying oh,
you know the salary cap. Keeps increasing, you know players
are just earning so much more raw money now than
why should players care about the cap percentage and and.
Et cetera there's a level of truth, to that, for
sure but that's not really why teams are trying to.

(57:25):
Avoid this it's because of the aprons it's just important
to get that. Out there it's it's the aprons that
are just handcuffing teams to a perverse degree and not
in a. Fun way so we're looking at a situation
where these teams just have to find a way to,
make themselves, you know competitive year, after year and if

(57:47):
you're going into your third year of being over The,
second apron, for example you're pretty. Much screwed there are
not a lot.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Of, it yeah it's not even it's it's not even
so much about, the money but the roster building restrictions
is down to at, that point frozen, draft picks picks
being moved at the end of the, first, round, which
honestly do you think we will ever see that that
a team will stay in The? Second APRIL that i
kind of just feel like that's. THE taboo i don't
care whether you think it's gonna Be the Thunder or
boston that's gonna. Do it that feels that feels like.

(58:17):
A line i don't know that any team is gonna
if there was a.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Just emotionally it feels like, you can't.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Right because Maybe the thunder own enough of other teams's
drafts that they're like you, know what, it's FINE but i.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Don't, know yes, it's, grew.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Yeah no BUT but i mean it's just to put
a bow on it in terms of like the salary
commitments and LIKE again i think going Back to brunson,
FOR example i think he too acknowledged like this is
a ton, of Money like i'm Never getting i'm never
gonna go broke oft off of this.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
RIGHT back i JUST like i hate shifting that responsibility onto,
the PLAYERS though i do because.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
It's yes because of.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
The, billionaires yeah at the, same time at the, same
time to be, completely fair this is collectively bargained and
so it is on the players. To something this is
what your, representation negotiated and if you want to be
on a, sustainable contender something Like What jalen, brunson did signed.
An extension but even it has to be something Different

(59:18):
Than jalen brunson because he still.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Took it wasn't he.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Didn't wait he signed a matt what was a max
extension for him rather than waiting to get. More money in,
free agency it has to be a what is the,
player That Like, anthony edwards is eligible for more and
active like in, the moment it takes less. Type deal
not advocating, for That but, i'm wondering is that where
all this? Is, now hey so we're talking about stars
that are kind of being squeezed out Of the? Max

(59:42):
tire are there going to be names that you would
pay but they're gonna look, AND say i want to
be on a team that's relevant and don't want to have,
To move i'm gonna need to.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Take less we're still sort of waiting for that right.
TO happen.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
I think, I mean i'm thinking about this more from the,
Team perspective like there's a guy whose extension is gonna.
Kick in The fun max is going to kick in
this Summer where, I'm, like okay YOU know i can
sort of see It Power, ben carrol like when he's
up for like A, real max if that, ever comes
if he's good enough to, earn that which that remains to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
BE seen i think some people, might argue we're not
even sure if he's going to be on A. Fun
max it could be a not So fun, Max.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
Exactly like that's that's THE deal i. Don't want that's
that's A problem i don't want. To have like if
he has a lot of like raw stats and fancies
himself a superstar in twenty nine thirty looking for. An
extension i'm just probably trying to get out of The polab,
carrol business which.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Which that's still he's still young enough to where.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
You hi, but again, YOU know i mean the tendencies,
right now they are not really trending the. Right direction
there are a lot of. Issues there my point is
just there, are these as, you said these stars who
aren't superstars where you kind of have to figure out
what is the real? Value here, like again we're talking

(01:01:03):
about forty five million a Year For, tree young a
guy who was dangerously close at having a season where
he was averaging thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
And ten, even so this would be a good example of,
a name especially because of the year. He's having let's
say he is two years or three years younger whenever he.
Signed it he's having the season he's having, right now
and he's still that age when he initially signed.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
A Deal is Boston giving Jaalen? The? Supermax oh.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
They shouldn't They should that's the thing, is like that's
if you're, not willing then how many of these players
would be like five To seven i'm not, probably.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
THAT'S yeah, I mean i don't even want to say.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
That's insane its kind of just is what.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
It is but it's kind of bonkers to think that
if This Was jalen brown two, years ago so we're
not gonna try to factor the age change.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
In here you were, just no can't.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
Do, THAT yeah i DON'T think. I could i DON'T think.
I could and, you're right and it's that is THE
new nba that we have to navigate in and that,
is difficult by, the way that is. NOT easy i
under this is SOMETHING that, i think, you know people
like YOU and i who cover the league and who
have podcasts and who write like this is something that

(01:02:16):
we probably should spend more, time on just in terms
of like fans following the league and reading free agency
news and may not, you know be as geey about
the salary cap as YOU. AND i i completely understand
my fans react that the way that they do sometimes
when they hear these major contracts and then you have
us idiots sitting behind a mic, and, go well that

(01:02:39):
was actually? Below value how could you ever settle for
only two hundred and? TEN million i understand why that
line of thinking now because the solar cap just just
exploded over the. Past DECADE like i understand why that,
sounds crazy but like we really have to think in
terms of, Cap Percentage Like keith smith has been hammering
this for. A, year.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
YEAH and i, THINK right i Do think I'll Give hardwood.
Knox credit like that's how we try to frame a lot.
Of things but we're also reaching a, point though where
it transcends that a, little bit because you have to
look at the broader salary picture of, these aprons and
that's something we could all probably do a. BETTER job,
i mean fuck. That though how long did it take
for YOU and i to get a hold and like
we're cap dorks and so it's just. This stuff and

(01:03:20):
it's ALSO why i understand when fans are just like,
they now they're at the point they don't want to
pay attention to it BECAUSE the nba has twisted itself
into a pressol making these functional. Logistics absurd, but yeah
it's this is a very real thing that seems like,
it's happening And so i'm gonna be interesting to track it,
moving forward perhaps now more so. Than ever do you
have anything else here or are you ready to tell, the,

(01:03:41):
listeners watchers audience members where they can find you and
all the work that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
YOU do i don't have anything else outside of this
was fun. As producial you can find my work Over At.
YAHOO sports i DO the nba podcast you if you Somehow,
understand damish you can listen to another Podcast Called, buzzer
beater or you can catch me calling GAMES On. Hbo max.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Until, next time and as always we heat the shout
out To, the One, the only.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
The indelible just.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Say look if you're, not subscribed GoJ you want to
learn more about the salary cap or, second aprons go
Join The Hard one. Knocks discord the link is in
the YouTube and podcast description and hit that Sub Button
apple spotify YouTube if you have. Not already until, next
time and, as always with the shout out to, the One,
the only, the indelible the player for whom there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Is no max salary that is. Too High, mister frank
you know