Unfinished NBA Offseason Business (Eastern Conference) - Featuring Dan Favale - The NBA Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
What is up, fellas that goes, I am damp Valley,
coming at you with the one the Only Mort Jensen
of the NBA podcast, fame of Yahoo Sports, fame of
Forbes is Fame, and of OnlyFans celebrity. I wanted to
say only fans sooner, but I like to close with that,
So that's why I got tripped up at the beginning.
We're coming at you early to start your weekend so

(00:26):
that we can do the Eastern Conference portion of unfinished
business potentially for every NBA team in some situations, we're
just sort of asking questions this conference relative to the West.
Once you move past the restricted free agency trio of
Quentin Grimes, Josh Giddy, Cam Thomas, there's not like a
whole lot more that needs to get done. So we're
gonna find stuff to talk about because that's what we do.

(00:47):
But first and foremost more, how the heck are you well?

Speaker 2 (00:50):
I'm doing very well. It's funny you mentioned tripping, because
like when I do my OnlyFans content, I also trip.
You know that's that happens.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Just do acid on your only Evans? Is that?

Speaker 2 (01:02):
But dude?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
And you know what I just I closed the chat off,
so it's only me in there. That's that's the most
fun part.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Any thoughts notes on this exercise before we dive in,
and we're gonna try to not do we did like
two hours and ten minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
We went way too long. So like my one note
here is, let's just try to keep it to four
or five minutes per team, as we originally discussed and
agreed upon.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, I mean, if we get out of here in
seventy five, that's a that's a big accomplishment for us.
If you have questions in the chat, we do love.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
But yeah, I might actually open up the only fans
account if we get out of here in seventy five minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Well we did have. When I posted about this on
our like YouTube post community section whatever it is, someone
said the views would be higher if you would wear
a tank top, and clearly you didn't see that comment
because you're just in a regular T shirt.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
So I'm one somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
All right, let's get started. We're gonna go in alphabetical
order because we like to live dangerously in anyone who's
watch just before I understands that that's always a little
bit risky. We begin with the Atlanta Hawks. This one's
actually interesting. This might be actually the most interesting topic
of the entire thing, the Tree Young extension. Depending on
where you think the cap is going to come in
at next year, I just have it at seven percent

(02:16):
because I'm an alarmist. As we established so last time
when we did the Western Conference, he can sign for
like four years two hundred and twenty something million around there,
it does seem universal among people that he's not going
to get that, which I just find fascinating for someone
who's an All NBA caliber player. Where do you land
on this mort.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
So I've just written about this over at Yahoo here today.
I don't know if it's published yet, but basically, the
Mikhail Bridges extension that checked in at one hundred and
fifty million, I think thirty seven and a half million
per year. I think that's a big indicator of where
the market is right now. Like NBA teams are fully
aware that they just can't hand out you know, twenty

(02:59):
five or thirty percent max is to you know, fringe
all stars anymore because those aprons are legitimately restrictive. They
are a problem. So now they're really trying to communicate
with their players to let them. Know, Look, you'll get paid,
you just won't receive as big of a cap push
and it's as usual. Now. Obviously this doesn't include guys

(03:21):
like Luka, Dawn Chase, those guys. Obviously there are still
the super.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
You think Nico is a MAX players, that's.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Christ I know it's it's yeah right, Or the.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Dude cares more about horses than he does about winning
NBA games.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I actually do you think that's true? But that doesn't
then I don't care. I don't care about that. You
can care about two things at the same time.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Man, No you can't. No, you can't.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
That's right. That's NBA players.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
They only have. It's like those comments, I don't know
if they're still I don't know if they're still frequal people,
like why aren't you in the gym? Why are you
posting about your five year old birthday or some shit?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah I hear yeah, Like, oh yeah, the guys is
in the gym twenty fourth literally twenty four to seven.
He's not supposed to sleep with the hell.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
I prefer my celebrities to be more relatable, and so
the fact that like Kevin Durant is like terminally online.
I almost appreciate it. I don't agree with most of
what he says, but I just appreciate.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
It absolutely and like but but getting back to answering
your question, Dan.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Sorry, we got two and a half hours to phill.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Remember no, But I think we're seeing a major differential
between the superstars and the stars. And to me, the
Trey Young discussions doesn't start with Trey Young. It starts
in a couple day with the Aaron Fox. That's when
we really begin to see, like, what is the effect here?
And may it might have already have started with Bridges

(04:42):
like I don't think. And this was kind of the
point I made in the in the Who piece as well,
which is like, I think the Spurs, for example, have
to look at that contract, the Bridges contract and go, okay,
so where do we actually rank Fox and all this
because he's clearly not the most important player on the team.
He's clearly not like it's her one superstar, Like he's

(05:03):
in that middle area where he's an all star, but
he's not a superstar, Like can we even justify a
thirty percent cap hit on him? I don't think necessarily
they're going in and deciding already and saying no, but
they're not going in immediately going yeah automatically either, like
that's a conversation. I'm fairly sure that's a conversation they're

(05:24):
having internally and have had for a while. If he
agrees to something along the lines of twenty twenty two
percent instead of the thirty percent, I think that's going
to reflect something in Trey Young's extension box as well.
I basically, I'd be very surprised if teams are just
handing out full ride max level of contracts to guys

(05:45):
who aren't like the top tier lead.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
I would agree with you. The reason I think I
viewed Trey Young's extension as more of an inflection point
than the Aaron Fox's is because the Spurs have another
cornerstone there who's clearly more important and in Atlanta. I mean,
if you think that it could be Jallen Johnson, or
if you think that at Zachary Risi che, I would
say that's arguable. At best, I think Trey Young is
clearly the guide post for what this team is going

(06:11):
to do.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
So we're extending on a curve.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
No, I'm not saying we're extending on a curve, but
he has wouldn't you argue Trey Young is more important
to Atlanta than Daron Fox's to San Antonio.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, absolutely, and like you said, because of WEM people.
But like again, if you give Trey Young the max,
could we be looking at another cycle of inge situation
where we're like, oh, look, he's turning too much. But
like he was clearly the best player on the team.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
I'm not saying he's a no brainer max. I was
just making the point that I think what he gets
in his extension is going to be more tell tale
than what Daron Fox does, because, in theory, Trey Young
should have more leverage because he is more important to
his team.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Okay that way, Yeah, I can see that.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, and I but I agree with your other point
is that the benchmark for these max deals, especially after
the twenty five percent max, is I do think it's
going to go higher. I tend to be a little
bit higher entree as a player than most others, but
I at this point, if he gets max money on
a per year basis, I would be shocked. If it's

(07:08):
because he signed a full four year deal, I would
automatically think it's like two years plus a team option
or something. And I'm just curious, you know, I thought
Jaron Jackson Junior, there might be a little bit of this.
But is this something that he might just kick the
can on and not sign an extension and then go
into free agency, or he has that player option he
could extend off that if he wants. There are more
teams with cap space, but he's in next summer. But

(07:30):
he's in a weird situation where it's let's use micheal
Bridges as an example. If mckal bridges hit the open
market next year, I think he would have more suitors
than Trey Young just because he fits more places. It's
sort of the James Harden problem where he's he's very good,
but you have to tailor so much around him that
fewer teams were going to be in on him. And
like mchal Bridges is maybe someone he's so plug and play,

(07:53):
would a team like the Jazz that's for instance, that's
just earlier on in the rebuild take a look at him.
I honestly don't know how it's gonna but I think
I think that he's going to end up becoming this
financial touchstone for how a lot of these extensions and
free agency deals go moving forward, and I'm just I
don't what do you have any prediction or thoughts on
what you think is going to want? Like, do you

(08:13):
think he won signs one? What would you guess about
the price point.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
I'm guessing he's going to get the full ride. And
I think, well, because there are hints, Dan, they're hints.
So the Jalen Johnson contract for extent, for example, that's
a flat rate of an even thirty million. I think
they also had on Yako Kongo back on a very
team frankly deal. They obviously have some rookie contracts in

(08:38):
form of Sagari versus Chet. And by the way, I
have to say it right, I have I don't want
to become the americanized in the names of the French players.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
And then you have Kate, you're talking to a Patriot.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
I know, I'm sorry, thanks for your service. I guess
with with persincas he's an unrestricted free agent, it seems like,
you know, quote unquote, they can afford to go that route.
It seems like they're bracing themselves for that, you know,
impact of him signing the max deal or at least
very near max deal. I don't think We're gonna look

(09:13):
at the next tray young contract and go, oh, eighteen
percent of the cap, Like, no, wait, that's that's that's
not gonna be a realistic expectation. Now, Would I prefer
Trey at the fun max level? You know, the twenty five? Yeah,
that'd be fun. That'd be good, that'd be great. Are
we sure that he'd accept that, because I'm not.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
If I was him, I would be pushing for So
it's four years and two hundred and twenty two point four,
and it could be a little bit higher than that,
but i'd be put. I'd absolutely be pushing for the
full thing. I I don't think he's gonna get it.
If I was the Hawks, I might actually give it
to him. But I think you're like the first person
I've seen predicted he's gonna get the full ride. That's
what makes it so fascinating.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Look again, that's just trying to read the tea leaves
and look reading the sea leaves. You can be wrong,
like se Leeves can fuck you up.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Dan, Yeah, because I almost looked at it reverse where
it's like, Okay, they might be set up to accommodate
a higher salary now, but I looked at it as saying,
would they frontload it to where maybe he's making more
than his player option or his player option and then
you're declining. So it's like, oh, he got let's say
four year, what is it? So we had four and
two twenty two. Let's say they give him four and

(10:22):
two hundred, but it starts at his max and then
it goes down from there or something that's yeah, that's
that would be. That'd be because now you're talking about, Okay,
reche will eventually get more expensive, as you mentioned, if
you want to keep Porzingis, you do have to worry about, Okay,
next year, maybe it's easier to fit in the structure,
but if it's if it's more than one year and
Yekakungu is not going to be super cheap forever, you

(10:44):
have to start thinking about, well, I mean, Asa Newell
just came in the league, so it's they are set
up to where I guess they could, but I.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Realized has three years left on these steels, right, Oh.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
He's only one year into his extension.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Okay, yeah, it's got three more years.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
But I guess between the per Porzingis stuff, and then
all of a sudden this time next, like we're gonna
be at Zachary recesses extension eligibility in two years from now.
I'm just curious if they're gonna be worried about if
you give him the full max. You're talking about Trey
Young on an upswinging number, then the things start to
get difficult. So I think he will sign if he
signs for more than like two years, like I think

(11:19):
it'll be a frontloaded deal for less than the max.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think that I like that one better than my
prediction because I think that is just the smart play,
especially with the cap projection coming in at seven percent
instead of the ten percent, if you confront load the
everlasting crap out of that one, so it just lowers
your cap hit moving forward. Yeah, that's smart. I like
that solution.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
And the final thing I'll just say is where he
does lose leverage is why while there are more teams
with cap space next summer, like I don't think like
the Lakers or the Clippers probably aren't going to be
a Trey Young team. I wouldn't think Detroit if they
opt for cap space, because for some reason, they're not
going to keep Jay and Ivy or jayn Deurn or
maybe both or both are super cheap. That's not a

(12:02):
Tree Young team. Utah would really want to have to
fast track something and be out on Isaiah Collier, and
so that's where he might lose leverage. I guess I
don't know if the Clippers were getting rid of Harden
because the Lakers have Luca, they're not going after Trey Young.
I guess the Clippers could maybe talk themselves into it,
but I just don't. I don't have the clear cut
Trey Young team.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
I don't either, And we're twelve minutes in.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
That's what we had. A four minute intro. That's pretty
good for us. And some of these are gonna be
quicker because like this one. Moret the Boston Celtics. Let's
talk about the big man rotation. I know they're not
trying to be sorry.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Which rotation? What?

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah? Exactly? Their best big man is George Nian that's inarguable.
I want to ask you a question, who is Boston's
second best big man?

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (12:54):
God, yah, Luca Garza, name its Cada, Zavier Tillman. Does
Hugh go Gonzales count as a big kilman?

Speaker 2 (13:04):
I like Tilman. I like Tilman a lot. I actually do.
I think he's been underutilized for a while. But like,
I'm also beginning to reach that point where like the
stock that I had in him is starting to be
in a little bit because it can't it can't just
be me sitting on that island and everyone else is
like out on him. So like I think, I think
I mean the wrong there, but I would go to

(13:26):
Tilman just personally. But god, that's a depressing question. That's
a really depressing question.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
And by the way, there's because they're still looking to
cut money, Like there's no character that georgeid just stays
on this team because he is an expiring contract. I
would think it's kada. But I think the point stands that, Okay,
what what are we doing here? I know they're not
trying to get tend for a title? But are they're
not gonna sew? Are we expecting them to just so
egregiously tank that they're okay with this? You are? So?

(13:57):
I mean, have you so?

Speaker 2 (13:59):
How much do you know about the twenty twenty six draft?
Very little?

Speaker 1 (14:03):
You know, I only do a crash course.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Right, all right? But do you know there are three
guys at the top who are like potential franchise players.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Right, I think is this talking about maybe Ben Simmons
signing with the Celtics, So, I.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Mean smart, that'd be a tank commander. I'm not seriously,
I know that everyone is like, oh, the Celtics won't tank.
I get that. I'm not ruling out that scenario whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
So what do you do with Derek White and Jalen
Brown in that I know you don't? Are you shutting
them down? Putting them on a maintenance program?

Speaker 2 (14:33):
I mean, look again, you're basically telling Jalleen Brown so like, oh, okay,
you want to channel your inner superstar because you've been
talking about like how you are a top NBA player
for you for years. Now go prove it. And look,
he's not so I wouldn't be worried he's gonna shoot
you out of a lot of games.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
That's full. First of all, I think that's a really
I think you might be a little low on Jalen Brown.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
With my bigger player, I am low on Jalen Brown. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
But my thing is is if Boston wants to go
to the tanking route, the actual to do would be no,
Jalen Brown, don't play because he's played a lot of
basketball the past few years, and he's dealt with some
of this injury weird lower body, like he has an
achilles issue this year. So if that's I just didn't
expect him.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
To shut down, you can cut it down. It's fine.
I don't think he moves the needle all that much.
And I think with with Derek White, I love Derek White,
but I don't think he is what's the what's the
wording here? A featured player, like I don't think he's
a guy you can give the ball and just basically say, hey,
your usage rate has to go up, but like fifteen

(15:32):
percentage points and he'll maintain his level of efficiency. I
don't think that is the case. I think we were
all so enamored by the Celtics won the title, and
rightfully so, because like that that was the perfect total
pole hierarchy. That hierarchy is completely broken now. So I'm
basically just sitting back with my popcorn, going, oh, yeah,

(15:56):
you guys want Darren Peterson next year? Uh huh, that's great,
Let's go for him, because I would not be shocked
whatsoever this team is thinking about trying to get one
of those guys in there.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
I think I'd be fairly surprised if it was a
mid season decision. Sure, but then you've you've lost valuable
tanking ground. I just to lead us back to the
actual topic here, though, So I guess you don't expect
them to do anything, like the big man rotation is.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
I don't want them to do anything because I actually
think tanking would be the right course of action here.
Like if you're look, if you're.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Gonna tank, you should trade Derek White, then just because.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
I don't care, that's fine, trade Derek White if you can,
I'm down with that, that's fine. I would. I think
if you're looking at this situation, you know that there's
no chance in hell to make a run in the
playoffs in twenty twenty six. Like you can see her
and say, oh, a gap year, we're taking a year off. No,
take a year off with purpose, and the purpose is

(16:52):
going to get try to get a guy who can
be a future franchise player for your team. Absolutely, And look,
it isn't like the Celtics haven't done it before, not
in this particular vein, but back in the eighties and
nineties they made sure to always have replenished cuppers like again,
what was it they had they drafted lent Bias. Second,
I think was that Meyer a trade They actually got

(17:13):
that pick, but like that was during Larry Bird years.
So this isn't a team that's afraid of having high
draft picks while they're also having like established players. Hell,
just going back to the Kyrie situation, when he was there,
they were trying to develop Jalen and Jason while also
trying to be competitive with Kyrie and whatnot. This is
the team that's shown that they can have one leg

(17:36):
into each camp.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
This is different though, because it's easier to like they
they reversed it. It's easier to already be young and
developing and say identify a star veteran versus doing it
in like the inverse order. I also think I think
you're underestimating how hard it is for them to tank.
Like the big man rotation is bad, but look at
the bad teams in like Utah is not trying to win.
The Pelicans think they're trying to win, but they're not

(18:00):
going to. Just to even be in the bottom six
of the league is just they're not.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
That Almost an asset nowadays with how the lottery shakes out.
Dan but then.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
I guess you could look at who's won the lottery
of the past few years. But then that's not tanking though,
that's them going through a gap year.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
What you just disparaged, So you're still trying to tank
to your best, to the best of your availability or
to the capability. Sorry, if they do.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
That, it better be in service of resting Jayalen Brown
rather than because I don't think he's like a There's
no way Jalen Brown's a tank command. Okay, that's that's
an awful whatever.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Whatever they need to do, I think it's the right
place because otherwise, what the hell are you trying to do?
Just win forty games and sneak yourself into like the
play in Big Whoop? What do you gain from that?

Speaker 1 (18:46):
Noah Odds says in the East of Celtics could stand
pat and still avoid the play in. That's probably fair.
Like Cleveland, the Knicks, the Pistons, the Magic, the Heat,
the Hawks should all be and then you have the
if the Sixers are healthy, the Raptors have a lot
of talent. What are the Pacers gonna do without Halburn?
And it seems like they're trying to win like I

(19:11):
think the Hornets are still probably gonna be pretty bad
because their center situation will get to them in a second.
Then you have Washington. Brooklyn's going to try to be bad.
The Bulls are just I mean, they'll win what thirty
four games and called thirty four between thirty four and
thirty nine games, and that'll be it. I just don't man,
generational hater, Derek White is an elite role player, not
a scalable star that can handle being the top scouting report.

(19:34):
I mean, that's probably true, but he's also shot like
forty percent from three in his time with Boston while
Jaylen Brown and or Jason Tatum's off the floor. So
I just wouldn't discount him still being good.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
No, No, he's good. I'm not sitting here and saying
he's a crappy NBA player when they're not there. I'm
saying you probably can't rely on him over the course
of a you know, an eighty two game schedule by
by increasing his workloads significantly.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
So so I guess what I was saying about the
big man rotations that they then need to tie this
together somehow, because I think that their front line sends
like a message that their Perimeter Core isn't sending the
same message as that makes sense. They're they're just the
big man rotation could scream we're trying to tank next year,
but there's just between Simon's and Brown and Derek White

(20:19):
and Peyton Pritchard and Sam Hauser, there's so much talent
on the perimeter that if you're gonna keep that and
you're not looking to cut more salary this summer, I
think they just need to go out and get a
more competent big I'm not saying go go trade for
Walker Kessler, but like, go out there and like, can
you sign Chris Bouchet. You knew I was gonna bring
his name. Go get Jonathan Mobo from the fucking Raptors.

(20:39):
They have nine trillion bigs right now. You want to
develop somebody. So I would like to see them do
something like that was my point. But if you had
to guess, do you think that they're not like they're
they're not gonna do something like that, that's how you're rising.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
I could guess. On I could sit here and guess
and say they want to have a a center or
a big man just to a piece the fan base.
Because again it's also a big cell to a fan
base where you won the championship, you know what, thirteen
fourteen months ago, and then just say, oh, hey, we're
trying to be deep in the lottery next year. That's

(21:12):
that's a that's a big sell. What I want them
to do is just don't focus on winning a single
game this year, like it has to be all about
like trades, the player development. Although looking at that roster,
who the hell is there really to develop?

Speaker 1 (21:30):
I mean, Yoganzales is there. They could give him Baylor Shireman.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
And Jordan Walls.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
I guess I'm over the Jordan.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Right Yeah, But honestly, I just I just think if
you have to have the gap here, I think you
had to do it with a purpose. That's it.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
I would agree with you. I just think that the
roster sending mixed messages right now, and so I think
you either better turn around.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
A dating app. This is the NBA man.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Like, so it's either there needs to be a big
man transactions here, or like you need to start like stripping.
There needs like Simons needs to be traded, or Pritchard
or Howser or just somebody to make you even breaker
on the primer, I mean, you just chat on him
for about another eight minutes. So what is the like,
who's gonna give up value for Jalen Brown?

Speaker 2 (22:14):
Saying that the rest of the NBA has as low
an opinion of Jalen Brown aside.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Do I think the Spurs the Raptors would be good
teams for him? Who elould be a.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Good jail the Raptors would be fun? Yeah? Yeah, just
add another wing, don't even send a wink back to Boston.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Just don't trade barrener Ingram as part of that trade.
That would be if you were looking for a real,
like sort of Galaxy branding, you trade Jalen Brown for
Ingram and stuff like picks, I don't know what else.
That deal looks like young players. And then you're saying, Okay,
brandon Ingram we think can be at least what so
he makes let's say seventy eighty percent of what Jalen
Brown does. They'll probably bet that he can be seventy

(22:51):
to eighty percent of Jaalen Brown. But you've ensured that
you'll probably be worse this year because you can say, oh,
Branding was coming back from his injury, we want to
slow play this. That would be that would be interesting.
What other team could I see giving up that? Like
what Atlanta think about it?

Speaker 2 (23:09):
I mean They've been mentioned White a lot whenever Jaylen
Brown trade scenarios has popped up, So I don't hate that.
The question is what do you give up?

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Uh? Would you trade Resache for John Brown? It'd have
to be Johnson and Resa Che as one of the
pieces going out.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Look, if I'm putting all my chips into the like
the Trey Young basket, I will have to accelerate it
a little bit because Rische is not gonna be you know,
in his prime until Trey is like closing in on
thirty pretty aggressively. So and we know what happens to
small guards when they hit that that age grouping. So

(23:49):
what I'd probably be willing to accelerate the timeline.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
I guess they don't have another I was gonna say Minnesota,
if you built something around go Bear and dilling him,
or maybe it would be Jade McDaniels and Dillingham and that,
but they don't have picks to give. That's tough. I'd
be curious if John Brown. I don't think he gets traded,
but if he is, I'd be curious to know who
what the winning bid looks like on that. So I
think the Boston Celtics need to add a big man.
It's more of the story and I'll be monitoring that.
And if they don't, I would expect another trade to

(24:14):
come that makes the worse the nets. So there's the
I think we can just blow through the cam Thomas thing.
What do you think happens with this mort What's like,
what's going on here?

Speaker 2 (24:24):
I think he gets re signed to a short deal
and with the mindset or agreement that hey, look, you're
gonna get this deal. It's gonna be short. We're gonna
try to trade you to a destination where you might
be able to earn more money in a couple of years, depending.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
On their order of I think, yeah, if he gets
more than two guaranteed years, like maybe they finally tack
on a third year with a team option, I'll be floored.
I think that's just what he's gonna end up doing.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Do you think there's any chance he's the one of these,
you know, core four restricted free agents that signs his
qualifying offer.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
I would probably look at Kamenka as the most likely
to do so, but I'm not ruling out this scenario
because he seems to be the most frustrated of the bunch.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Really, I feel like Kaminga seems to be the most
frustrated its years in the making.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Well, Kamena is like he's passive, aggressive, Cam seems outright
upsets sometimes like oh, look at he has to like
the few feud like him trying to pick a fight
with sack Lowe, Like oh, I'm that guy. I'm that guy,
Like he's he seems to be very frustrated about this situation.
And I'm not blaming him. I mean it's fair to
like not know what the hell is up, Like it's

(25:31):
it's August now and you don't really know what is
going on with your NBA team, Like, yeah, that makes sense.
I'd be frustrated too.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
I think he'll end up getting no more than two
guaranteed years. So and also just with the number of
like quote unquote could be ball handlers the Nets just drafted.
H they're clearly not thinking about Cam Thomas as the
long term part of the program. The other interesting thing
about them, though, is do you expect them Depending on
the order of operations, it could be twenty two to
twenty eight million cap space. It could be a lot
more than that if they just let Cam Thomas go.

(26:02):
Do you think that they'll use any more of that
before the off season is over, not necessarily to sign
somebody but it's part of a trade. Or do you
think they're saving it for more of a mid season acquisition,
if just to maybe even try and roll it over
into next summer.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Even so, let's see how close are they to the floor?
What are we looking at? Here? Are they at the floor?

Speaker 1 (26:24):
I thought they were there already after that, I thought
that's what I thought. That was also part of their
calculus with a Porter junior trade. Maybe I'm wrong there,
I'll double check it, but.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Okay, if they are. So, if they are at the floor, no,
I don't expect them to do anything major, Like yeah,
look if something it's realizes where they can get a
guy where they can absorb his deal, you know, maybe
a bad contract, and they can take a pick for
doing that. Yeah, I think they'd be open to that,
like immediately.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
They so they have their nine million below the salary floor,
and that's with I was actually caking in a higher
salary for camp Thomas, expecting them to get there, but
I think they'll need to use like another six million.
If it's two for twenty eight or two for thirty,
they would probably still have to spend like five or
six million bucks.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
So okay, Well, I mean there are enough talent left
in the free agency markets to get that done. So yeah,
I'm not worried about that. They'll find a way. But
they're definitely open to doing the scenario its just proposed before.
Absolutely if they can rent out that cap space, especially
if it's only for a year, like yeah, yeah, absolutely,

(27:28):
But the question is who out there are that desperate
to get off a deal to the point where they
willing to relinquish a god a draft pick. I don't
know who that is right now.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
It doesn't seem like there would be a lot of teams.
But mid season, if you're not as good as you
expect and you're trying to get out of the tax,
or you're a team that's trying to complete a trade
and like you have to navigate the aprons and you
need someone to take on money, I would argue because
the business, most of the bulk of the off season
business seems like it's already done. The cap space if

(27:59):
they least it out mid season would net them more
than if they were going around to teams right now.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
And I agree. So basically what we agree on the
path here is they meet the salary floor because you
have to do that before the start of the regular season,
and then they just use whatever remaining cap space they
have to go into the trade deadline and say, oh,
you guys need to facilitated facilitate a trade and you
need money to do so. Here we are.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
So unless our math is wrong because we I should
have checked the salary floor stuff before we did this,
let's do this question really quick. Is is cam Thomas
worth a first? If he takes say fifteen million times
two years. I could see a team like giving up
an end of the round first for him, But I
don't know the team, Like I don't look at I'm
looking trying to think of contenders and like they just

(28:48):
don't have a first to give, but like he might
make some kind of sense on Look, it's another score.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Two years, fifteen million, So what are we.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
No, No, it's two for thirty. I'm assuming is with
this if he's.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Sorry, yeah, no, no, I mean one, Yeah, I meant fifteen
million a year over two years. Right, Okay, so right,
so let's work shop this. So what when would that
trade happen? At the trade that line?

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Oh yeah, I mean it would have because his eligibility
would be exact January or whatever.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
So basically, what you're you're paying a first rounder to
have him for a year and a half. You're paying
a first rounder to have him for potentially two playoff years.
I don't hate that. Like, I think cam Thomas has
has become a little underrated. I think we're so quick
always with the undersized scores to like put them into

(29:37):
this bracket of oh, you're not affecting a game, you're
just there, and like, yeah, I get that he's not
a perfect player. I absolutely get that. But for a
guy who can come in and average twenty four, who
can get to the free throw line, who can hit
threes off the bounce, who can like make stuff happen
scoring wise, I think we have in a broad sense

(29:58):
over corrected and all always go, oh, well, I want
that six to eight wing who can play defense, that
great bunch. You know, I don't care that he only
scores four points per game, and I think that's that's ridiculous.
You also need guys who can come in and just
get you points because that is so crucial to win games.
So I think I would give up at first if
I'm a team that feels like a cam Thomas injection

(30:22):
can significantly improve my offense, especially heading into the playoffs.
So I have a guy who I can either start,
who I can bring off the bench where I can say, look,
I need you to just score. I don't need you
to facilitate. I don't need you to rebound. I just
need you to go get buggets. Yeah, I think that's the
first round worth. And again they're degrees to it, of course.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
And look there's part of the calculus too. Could be
you're able to send the Nets more money as well
while taking back can Thomas, So that could be part
of the value you're getting that too. The other thing, though,
is do you think the Nets have Like what would
be the harm in what I was saying about the
salary floor before is if you need let's say you
needed another like, like, what's the harm in giving him
a two year, forty million dollar deal with the team

(31:06):
option if that gets it done to get past the
salary floor? Like, wouldn't they maybe consider something like shouldn't
they consider something like that rather than like if they
don't even if they don't have even that puts you
past the salary floor. I kind of who cares. That
might make doing some business in the middle of the
season easier.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
I don't mind. Like you can go with either option. Really,
like if you if you find out that those you
guys are not meant to be or whatever, Okay, you
can take the money and you can use it in
at the trade at nine and see if you can
facilitate something and get assets in return, or you can
spend it on cam Thomas. Those are really your two options.

(31:44):
I don't think there's a wrong answer there.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
And the final note here is it does seem like,
just based off what they're offering cam Thomas that they
also do want to have and then their draft pick
situation it's headed to Houston in twenty seven, it does
seem like they still want to have maybe not one
hundred million dollars in cap space or whatever, but it
seems like they want to have like thirty or forty
million dollars in cap space still in the tank for
next summer.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Sure, who wouldn't, Well, I'm.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Do you like is that something that they should prioritize,
is my point, given where they're at in their competitive
life cycle. Is what I was asking, Hey.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Well, I mean, look, trying to get cap space nowadays,
some will view it as a fool's errant because who
is out there, But that's not how you should gauge
and view free agency. If you have money during the summer,
it also makes you a trade candidate. It gives you
so many options in terms of taking on bad money,

(32:39):
help facility trades like it. Just the flexibility of having
money is not to be undersold. But eventually we're also
going to have to be realistic because if we keep
seeing seeing guys sign extensions and they're just like nobody
on the market year after year after year, then seems

(33:00):
are also pretty aware that, oh there's a team that's
going in to enter the season trying to facilitate instead
of signing someone, we're not gonna give up anyone to
just give them more draft picks. So look, there are
a lot of ways to skin a cat. We'll see
what they try to do.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
I actually just don't think it should be as big
of a priority for them. I'm fine with them doing it,
but it's just not something I was playing hairs over.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
You can do them anyway. You can do many different things.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
We move on to another big man rotation that to
me is questionable, the Charlotte Hornets the center rotation. Is
this the planet center? Is it just we have musa diabate. Well,
I'm actually, like, to be fair, I'm kind of intrigued
by like he's shown flashes while he's been in Charlotte's.
But then it's Mason Plumbly, like what are like, what
are we doing? Or do you want to play Tjon
Salon at the five sometime next year? I just if

(33:45):
they're a team that's not trying to tank, if you
have a healthy LaMelo ball and you just also like
have all these other guards. You acquired Colin Sexton, you
draft Liam McNeely, Khan Knipple. I mean those guys have size,
but they're like two threes at best, Like, don't they're
a team. Just when you look at maybe what Boston
is trying to do to going through a gap year

(34:06):
versus what Charlotte's trying to do after moving Mark Williams,
it feels like they could use a flyer at the
center position too.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
They have Ryan Kelpprenner and you didn't even mention it.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
That's just I did mention him in the article I
wrote about their center positions.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Great, that doesn't help us right now, though.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yes it does because I just mentioned it.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
So you're all, I'm not really worried about their center position.
I'm more worried about their health. I'm more worried about
getting Miles Breeches off the damn roster. I'm more worried
about a plethora of other things. The center position is
like what point seven or something like on my to
do list there this team, if we want to center

(34:42):
on centers, you can go in a different directions there
and just test things out. Like what are your internal expectations?
I think it's going to be my question here, because yeah,
you're going to need someone at the five who can
really play consistent minutes and give you consistent production if
you're trying to make the playoffs? Is that your aspiration?
What are you trying to achieve this year? That's what

(35:04):
I want to know.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, the internal evaluation of themselves that is that is
a fair question. I just there's also something to the
effect of you. I would think would want more of
a consistent or bankable center to do work that's going
to open up things, whether it's screening for LaMelo or
some of the other guards, and like right now I
point to Diabat, they just like their best option, like

(35:26):
Mason Plumley isn't gonna do. You can still set screens,
but like teams aren't worried about Mason Plumley, and so
I think that's where there's value because it's interesting you
can over index on not having enough I don't want
to say just veterans, but like dependable talent because I'm
really a big believer in impact players, even if you
don't view them as long term pieces, or even if
they're not young, they can streamline the development for everybody else.

(35:50):
And you know, looking at a Ca Nipple and McNeely,
guys like kJ Simpson if they have any equity investment,
like depending on what they think about him, or if
you're trying to boost up Colin Sexton's trade value, you
I think getting a better big even if you, as
Chandler SV says in the chat, feels like a soft
tank show promise with some talented young guards and wings
but still not win too many games. I totally think

(36:10):
that's fine. I think they need at least one higher
end center. And I'm not saying a star go trade
a first round pick for a center or anything, but
I think to help in service of that agenda, you
need to get a better like top center option in here.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
But at least we know they won't struggle at the
center position when they play the Celtics.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah, who is there? These are pretty clearly the two
worst center positions in the league, Like rotation in the
league right now?

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, I think so. Right, I'm struggling to come up
with someone else.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
I don't know. I mean, like Indiana's is questionable, Like
I like Jay Huff, but then it's James Wiseman and
then it's Isaiah Jack. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, that's pretty bad too. And it's all in the East, Okay, right.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
I mean does that does that surprise you?

Speaker 2 (36:57):
No? Not really?

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Well, I'm just asking, well, no, they have eaves me.
I was about to name the Pelicans to where it's
like defensively if you if you want Derek Queen to
be a center, even what is kevon Ludie have left,
but they have used me c So just has.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
To throw in there for Pelicans fans you just have
to swisch.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
I mean, like if the Hornets or the Celtics should
just turn around and trade for Duop Breath. Already the
Blazers keep burying him up, like they get rid of me,
but they add Jan Hansen, So go get Duop Wreath.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
But for Jalns Smith from Chicago too. There are guys
on the benches around the league who can do something. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Uh, Chandler Rescivie says, I also think they really believe
in Musa. I'm a fan, but I don't know. I
don't see a starting center, like kind of a fringe
starting center or something. I think that he's he has
shown a lot. Actually just wrote something about him that'll
go live soon, so I won't spoil it. I like him,
I just want someone other than like Mason Plumbley or
a calf Renner or or let's downsize I'd echo with

(37:51):
more and hey, let's get rid of Miles Bridges. I mean,
you could take on maybe a more expensive center than
teams want if they're interested in Myles Bridges, so that
would be a route they could go. My final question here,
based off the Hornets' roster, what type of big would
you rather see added. Is it more of a like
a screen and rim runner lob threat or do you
think that they could benefit from having more of a

(38:11):
stretch five next to their ball handlers right now?

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Give them all the space that they need. Like if
the Bulls and Nicola Vusovich are finally on the op.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Ooh that's a good one. Yeah, I don't know how
do they get The Bulls probably want Miles Bridges because
they're the Bulls, right, So like that's I trade Miles
Bridges for Nicola. He's like one of the least impactful
scores I think in NBA history. Just full stop. So yep,
we move on speaking of the Bulls more, we move
on to them. This one's easy. What will Josh gid

(38:44):
he get?

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah, that's super easy. He wants thirty. They want to
pay him closer to twenty. I think he should get
like fifteen m Yeah, I mean, look, I don't know
what he's gonna get, but if it's between twenty and thirty,
I have questions. And but again it's not a sur
christ look last season, or rather last summer, I said

(39:06):
as much on the NBA podcast. I said, this is
what's going to happen. In twenty four to twenty five,
Josh Giddy will have these outrageous numbers, like the raw numbers,
He'll have the triple doubles. Everyone will get so infatuated
with the raw stats that they will say, oh, he's
worth twenty five thirty million lo and behold, this is
what happenss like the efficiency numbers are bad. He's not

(39:28):
a great finisher. There are so many question marks around him.
If he walks away with a long term deal at
more than twenty five, I think that's very, very optimistic
on behalf of the bulls. But I think might me personally,
what I think would be a smart solution here is
somewhat similar to the Cam Thomas situation, a two year

(39:50):
balloon deal. Perhaps, like okay, you can get him, give
him twenty or whatever, twenty five million a year over
not over two years per year over two years, so
forty five to fifty million, whatever, and then go from there,
like why not?

Speaker 1 (40:08):
They do have all the leverage. I just man, if
he goes only too, if he only gets two guaranteed years,
I probably set the minimum at three for him, and
I would argue that the fourth would be a player option,
even if it's not guaranteed, so for him it would
be guaranteed. I guess they do have the leverage. This
cool because who's coming in, Like the Jazz have the
huge trade exception, and there's the nets with like they're

(40:29):
not Giddy teams. I wouldn't think anyway. I mean, because
you talk about me.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
And it seems like the bulls want the years as well. Right, No,
wait a second, Actually, I'm gonna correct myself there, because
I do believe that case that Casey Johnson said about
three or four weeks ago that they were also disagreeing
on the years. I might be misremembering if someone in
the chat remembers that, please let me know. That seems

(40:52):
to be ringing a bell. So like if they disagree
about the years as well, like I imagine Josh Giddy
would want a lot of years plus the first million,
right like that seems like they ask.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Let's set the over because I don't know. I just
don't have anything to add. I'm with you where it's
I don't think he's worth thirty million dollars a year.
I don't know what he's worth. It's probably it's closer
to fifteen than thirty. You would think ye, I'm gonna
set the over under a twenty two and a half
million dollars average on average for the life of the contract.
Are you going to take the over of the under
on that?

Speaker 2 (41:23):
On what I think or what he should?

Speaker 1 (41:25):
No, no, not what he should on what you think
ends up having I think over. I agree. Now, I'm
going to set the over under a guarantee years at
two point five, so it has to be three or
more you take.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Unfortunately, thinking the over again, I don't expect competence from
the bulls whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Now if I set it at three and a half,
so we have to be four, would you still take
the over because I think I would.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, I think I would too. Unfortunately, Yeah, look again,
it's it's a great way to, you know, get a
guy in who gets nice stats and keep butts and
seats for whatever reason while they roll ahead to forty
eight wins and a playing seed like that's yeah, stay
the chorus, Bulls don't ever change. You're the most predictable

(42:08):
thing ever in the history of sports.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
So would you like to talk about the Billy Donovan
extension next? Is that what you're saying? We can move on?
I think that's I I honestly, would this be a
signal if you saw he got maybe maybe he still
gets four years, but it's like twenty million dollars a year,
even if it's just a two plus one, would you
take that as a signal as, oh, the bulls are
not like completely out of their minds.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
I mean, that would definitely improve things. Like I'm not
one to sit here and just crap on the bulls
retentitlessly for when they do good things like that's not
like again, I've complimented them up the Wasu when it
came to the new deals for for Kobe White and Iotosumu.
Then I've criticized them for not getting rid of those
not getting rint that's the wrong wording, but not training
those guys where their value were at the higher highest.

(42:54):
That's like for them to negotiate those deals. I thought
that was very very smart that you Smith contract. I
thought was extremely well done. Like so, they have some
strengths in terms of roster construction, but they just they
so rarely lean into it. And that's and if that's
their only strength contract negotiation, but they still are just

(43:17):
so bad at making trades and they're so bad at
making draft picks, and they're so bad at every other
asset and facet of team building. What the hell will
you that it all result in that, Oh, we can
resign our guys at good cost. Great, your guys suck?

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Whoa Do you think there might be something too? There?
Better at negotiating contracts in the back court than the
front court?

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Just you look at good UK at Patrick Williams. Yeah, look,
I mean to your point, trade Jones, they did a
pretty good Yeah, they do good work on that one too.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
So yeah, here's this. The Lozzo contract was really good
and then they proceeded to trade him for some lot
of worse cost. He's corus more of a guard though,
but you could count him as a three if you
want to. So there might be.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Something like three than the two personally.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
But like, yeah, well then there you go.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah it's dan, It's all pointless. Let's move on.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
We go to the Cleveland Cavaliers. Will we get any
veteran extensions? More? And the names to circle Dean Wade,
DeAndre Hunter, Darius Garland, and Max Strus are all extension eligible?
Do you think any of them will get an extension?

Speaker 2 (44:26):
So here's I have a take about the DeAndre Hunter thing.
I loved his season. We saw genuine improvement. Uh this season.
He stopped hesitating. He became you know, when you say
trigger happy, it sounds negative, but not in in not
with him because he was always one of those guys
where when he was in Atlanta you were kind of

(44:49):
pissed off when he was like he would look at
an open three, he'll think about it, and he wouldn't
do it. We saw a different mindset for him this year.
So like on his surface, I would be like, hey, yeah,
definitely extend DeAndre Hunter. But at the same time, we
only have one year of data with him with this
improved play, So there's a part of me that wants

(45:10):
to be a little cautious here and just just be
on the safe side, like, let us see it one
more year before we're like investing twenty five twenty eight
million a year into the sky or whatever the number
might be. I just need to see more of it.
I'm not there where I feel one comfortable extending him

(45:34):
off of the play from this year.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
That's interesting because I think I might be just I
would be a little bit worried when you're looking at
okay now, Michal Bridges is one wing off the twenty
six free agency market. There's not just like to get
a plug and play wing who you said more comfortable
taking his threes and he also, oh, he's not. That's right.
He has two years left on his deal. So now
I'm with you. I thought he only had one, So no, no, no,

(45:58):
I think yeah, so that's totally I think that's a
fine stance to take. Then it's the same thing with
Max Struce. He has two years left on his deal.
The Dean Wade one is if you're gonna guarantee his salary.
I don't think they've guaranteed it yet. That's maybe semi
interesting just if he's willing to resign at kind of
the same number to have him as either a future
trade chip or just I mean, like the stuff he
could do defensively for them when he's healthy is really important.

(46:20):
Darius Garland's interesting though, because part of me is like, well,
he has three years, like in total left on his
current deal, but there's been some risky business there with
the injuries. Would it make more sense to just sign
him to the two year extension so you're not into
him for as many years? Or are you just kind
of trying to roll this along and see where you're at.
When he's eligible for a three year extension next summer.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Will he see a discount?

Speaker 1 (46:46):
I don't. I don't know, I mean, but my guess
would be probably not. I mean, we just had this
conversation about Tree Young. This is another instance where are
you kind of are the calves hoping, Oh, is he
gonna get a reality check from seeing what de Aaron
Fox and Young get and then next summer like they'll
be able to broker an extension that they think more
reflects not maybe not well his market value, but just

(47:08):
more Okay, where are these non top fifteen players going
to be? Like Darius Garland for much of last season
was borderline all NBA. So I think if you were
signing over the year.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah, I have Garland over Tray and Fox. Personally, I'd
probably have.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Trey in front of Garland and Garland in front of
Fox if we're building out, like if you're saying the
next five years or whatever. But yeah, that's a that's
a good point taking. So no, I don't think you
would give them a discount on a two year extension
right now, unless when like d'aron Fox, signs the deal
and it's oh, like, did Thearon Fox just signed for
thirty million dollars a year or some shit. I need
to lock this in and now if the Cavs are
gonna give me more, but they've what's been interesting about

(47:48):
the Calves is okay, Evan mobiley Donoin Mitchell, like those
extensions were no brainers, but like Jared Auten, like, they've
seem to prioritize, Oh, we want to have the if
we're gonna get rid of players, like, we'll do it trade.
We don't want to let them get the free agency,
which is what a lot of other teams are doing.
But they're doing it with guys who maybe you wouldn't
necessarily think should be Like the Jared Allen stuff. Him

(48:09):
signing an extension after the way like he was thrown
under the bus at one point was fascinating. So I
don't think we're gonna get any veteran an extensions, especially
because they're so deep into If I had to, here's
a good question, and I'll answer it myself. Are they
more likely to sign someone to an extension of the
players we named or actually cut salary from their luxury
tax bill for the rest of the offseason, and I

(48:31):
would pick the ladder pretty confidently. I'm not saying they'll
do either, but I think it's more likely that they say, yeah,
we just want to trim Like they're twenty million dollars
past the second apron right, so if they don't want
to pay for a roster that's approaching I think like
four hundred million dollars in like player salary and taxes.
I know Dan Gilbert has been willing to spend on

(48:53):
players in the past, but this is unprecedented spending for
them basically, So yeah, three hundred and ninety five point
seven million is their projected team salary plus tax bill.
They're good enough to do it for one year. I
don't get like if I'm if I'm the Cavs, I
just pay it. I think they're good enough, but I
think that would be more likely than getting an extension.

(49:13):
Your silence means that you want to move on rather
than you try to set yourself.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
We are are way behind.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Well, you don't respond to some of my points, which
is just it's dishearten sometimes.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Mort I know, look that's because I agree with you. You
make so so great points. I'm just sitting there writing it.
It's great, uh.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
With the head nod leaving me hanging while I'm trying
to timestamp here. But the Detroit Pistons, we don't typically
talk about rookie extensions during this exercise, but unless you
think that they need to make another addition, do you
want to see them get another like how do they
have us star Thompson and Tobias Harris? Do you want
a better Ford? Do you want a better big than Stewart?
Or I just don't. There's do you want a veteran
ball handler? When you have Jade and Ivy and already

(49:54):
got Carselver, it just feels like they're done unless there's
a star player that becomes available that they it was
a really good fit. Thoughts on these extensions. Do you
think that no otage in the chat says Jade and
Ivy is he good? I mean it's a question that
a lot of he showed flashes last year, but that's
part of the extension discussion. We know you like him,
Do you think he gets an extension?

Speaker 2 (50:15):
I don't because he got injured. We never see like, Okay,
so he's been We've been talking about this before. So
year two that was the whole money Williams year where
he got jerked around in terms of role and minutes,
and so we didn't really see an optimized version of
him in his second year. Then he came into year three,

(50:37):
I think that we're beginning to see like the real
version of him, and then he went down miss fifty
two games, so like we only have a furdy game
sample size where we could see sort of the vision
of him alongside Kate and within this system. So I'm
probably not inclined to extend him right now, but I

(50:58):
will say this, if he and his agents are opened
to like a sweetheart deal, sure, why not a sweetheart
deal for the from benefiting the Pistons obviously, Like if
he's down to signing some for your extension to what
do I know, like an even twenty a year.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Which like, wow, I don't even I don't even know.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Oh I'm doing that immediately, Yeah, I believe, and even
twenty are you kidding? Four years eighty? Come on? You
can't be that low on him.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
It's not that I'm low on him. But so he's
coming back from here's my thing. He's coming back from
a major injury. The offense with him and caide. While
we agree that this is the best we've seen Jay
and Ivy, you could still get better. Was still about
league average with them on the floor, and they lost
those minutes last season. I don't have enough information to
just commit. And if it's here's my thing. If he's

(51:53):
getting twenty million a year, his cap pled next summer
before he signs a new deals twenty seven, that's not
enough of just a haircut for me to say no.
Like if it's you know, if it's three years, it's
like going out four years on. It's just we don't
have enough information on him and this fit like for
this iteration of the pistons, and also just how much
does JB. Bickerstaff value him when we know that he's

(52:15):
not the greatest defender and we've see JB. Bickerstaff kind
of ding guys when they or not. I also think
that the off ball shooting improvement, it's important what's the
volume at which he could do it? Because Ron Holland
and Asar Thompson are guys that you want to put
like need on ball touches. I know Ron Holland had
a really good he had a better his jumper looked
better in summer League. But the game against the Knicks
where he shot I don't know, like eleven of ten

(52:36):
out of three on threes. We're doing a lot of
heavy lifting there. I just don't know that we have
enough information on how he fits within this structure of
the team, and it would probably have to be like
four for sixty or something. And I'm not saying I
think Jaye and Ivey shouldn't sign that. I still think
it'd be a good player. But we also know how
restricted free agency works now more. Even if you think

(52:57):
Jane n Ivy's really who's coming in with the offer sheet,
maybe and maybe help me somebody.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
But I would say that's the thing because I was
looking at it as an outside team, because if that
was like the thing where you know, he wanted twenty,
let's say twenty, and the Detroit were like, nah, if
I'm an outside team and I have money, I'm like, yes, sir,
because I don't look at Jaden Ivy in through the
you know, Cam Thomas Lens. I love Cam Thomas, but

(53:22):
I also realized that he has some significant weaknesses and
some shortcomings. I don't necessarily attach those same weaknesses to Ivy.
I think there's a player in there, who is so
much better, who plays under more control, who has better
floor presence, also in terms of playmaking and floor spacing
and off the cat shooting, there's so much more stuff

(53:43):
to like, Now, I understand you're bringing up the numbers
with Kate and like, how did that look? That's totally fair.
It's not like I'm ruling that out as all. That's
totally relevant, but it's not something I'm baking everything around,
not saying you are either, don't worry, but it's it's
something that just fills less with me. It's not something
I put that much on because this is a weird

(54:05):
Pistons team. However, want to slice it. There's a center
who's a non spacing center, first and foremost. We also
know that Osar Thompson not a floor spacer either. So
like the pendulum swings a lot depending on how they play,
do they establishing themselves on the interium more often than not?
Like it. It's a little bit of the Wild Wall

(54:26):
West in Detroit in terms of how they play. And
I would just like to have another gun in my
holster for that type of play style. And I think
IVY is that if they think they can get them
for even cheaper by all means, I think there's a
player in there. And if I'm a team who, if
I'm young, I'm up and coming, and I'm smelling that

(54:49):
the pistons are not necessarily in on the IVY experience.
I'm pouncing. I'm absolutely pouncing. I'm high on this kid.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
I don't think I'm low on him, and I think
it's encouraging. He ended up shooting like forty three percent
from three when Kate Gunningham was off the floor last year,
but the offense was also dog shit in those minutes,
and so I don't know what to think of him
as a floor general yet. I think we might have
a pretty good feel of what he could do as
a score, both on and off the ball. But I
worry about Okay, if you are investing in him, you

(55:22):
can't do so because if you're investing in him and saying, well,
he's just basically a two at that point, if you
don't think he could like run your offense during the
minutes that Kate is absent, like with the what the
ten to fifteen minutes a game that Kate does not play.
That's what I'm still hung up on. Probably more than anything.
And I like to go out four years in twenty
million per I wouldn't be able to do that just yet. Still,

(55:42):
I still very much like him and he's worth And
by the way, I think the Pistons offseason was fine.
I think it was smart that they didn't do anything dramatic,
especially after the Malik Beasley news, and that they're still
set up to be really good in the East, like
this could easily be a top four team in the East.
It certainly, I think it's certainly probably a top six team.
I'm sure I had them in the top six when
we did tears.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
While you were talking, we have news and stew up
Wreath news. Is it? The Blazers are fully guaranteeing his contract?
There we go.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
I mean, good for him, but someone go fucking trade
for that guy. Now, my god, Hey, you just said
the Pistons don't really have a force basing center. Let's
get du Op brief in here. That's the Should the
Pistons go add Duop Wreath? Yes, the answer is yes.
Final thing to wrap up on the Pistons, and we've
talked a lot about the Durant extension, big extensions. Who
do you think is more likely to get an extension

(56:32):
between these two.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
During during because of the Yeah, you know, he's a
big man who has been steadily improving defensively, elite rebounder,
and more importantly, he's been on the floor, like he
hasn't missed all that much time. I think the inter
play between him and Kate has grown. I think you
also need to have someone of his caliber, you know,

(56:59):
to catch law to grab boards, like you need to
give a guy like Kate cunning him a legitimate big
man to actually feed the ball too, like you can't
not have that. So I think he's their priority. But
I don't think it's like miles ahead, don't. I think
they want to take care of both at the same time.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
That you would think that they want to get extensions
hashed out rather than taking either one of them.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Or I yeah, so I on, yeah, I wouldn't be
surprised if they want to again, depending on you know,
them taking a deals that are beneficial to the Pistons,
because they've acted like that before. A lot of teams
basically approach rookie extensions as if we're doing you a favor,
so like take less. So it's it's through that perspective too,

(57:45):
and like, look, if Jaden or Jalen or both say
hell no, let's go into a strict a free agency.
Okay by all means, but I would understand why agents
would be like, huh, let's not. Let's not because are
you are you seeing what's going on right now? Like?
Are you seeing this? So we'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
I wonder if they would be less likely to give
Duran an extension if let's say both Mark Williams and
Walker Kessler don't get one, because then they might look
at it as Walker Kesler. Certainly, if a team is
gonna give an offer sheet to a big manner restricted
free agency, I think it would be Walker Kessler before
Jalen Duran at this point. So that could be part
of this calculus too.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
That is not an unfair suggestion.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Yeah, I think I'm gonna say I agree with you.
I think Durren would be more likely to get the extension.
I actually would be pretty surprised if both of them
get extensions, though that's interesting that you think that that
would be a possibility. I think I'd value the flexibility
of letting them both go to RFA. But maybe that's
about to turn we move on to the Indiana Pacers.

(58:49):
Don't have Tyres Albert next year, no longer have Miles
Turner either. Are they gonna do anything with like their
non tax payer mid level or their disabled player exception?
I guess the deep like that, you could say both
for the middle of the season, but they I like
the Jay huff deal, but like the center position doesn't
have a ton of juice on it. Could you do
you want like another maybe like veteran type ball handler,

(59:11):
like as a placeholder to help you maybe run the offense.
I know Michael Pena made the case for the Pacers
to be the Ben Simmons team. That's certainly interesting. So
sometimes saying use the entire mL but this doesn't feel
like a team that should be done if they're trying
to be competitive next season.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Right, So there's six million under the tax line.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Right, so they have room to do Who doesn't have
to be the entire MF. They have room to do something.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
They can they can do something. Yeah, I mean again,
I'm sort of sitting here thinking what's the big point,
what's the big idea? But like, like whom they could
they get a real difference maker in with that financial flexibility.
Maybe not, but why not swing on something. I would
hate for them to go old with that money, if anything,

(01:00:02):
because of the situation they find themselves in where expectations
are low, you know, no tyreees. I would love for
them to see if they can find someone cheap on
the market, someone who's flying under the radar where they
can get in and try to get minutes. And I
don't really care about the position, but the question is

(01:00:23):
who is out there, Like, because I'm just speaking hypothetically
and generally I don't have a name, but I do
want that player to be young, like give them, give
yourselves a chance some upside.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
So like I'm trying to think, because they're not, they
should not be a team. We both agree that would
trade a first round pick for somebody at this point,
and it's like a jail and picket from Denver maybe,
or Kobe Bufkin from Atlanta if.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Yeah, And I was even thinking for the free agency
market or something, but like, yeah, you can go scour
other teams bench just so sure, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Who are you thinking on the free agency market? Then
that's like, is there even any no.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
I was, That's what I'm saying. I wasn't thinking like
I was. I was basically saying, if there's a young
guy out there, like I need to go in and
and actually look at who's out there, Like you can
go tray for someone, or you can go sign someone
if there's someone out there, Like again, remember every single
organization have you know, looked at virtually everyone who's gone

(01:01:22):
through the draft before, some like other players more than others.
And if there was a guy out there who the Pistons, Wow,
who the Pacers have had through the doors before, where
they were like, yeah, you know what, we have a
good eye to him. Why not like if someone gets
waved within the next couple of weeks or something, who
they were like, Oh, we actually like this dude, bring

(01:01:43):
him in. I think they just what's the upsiding going
for Ben Simmons? Really? What is the upside of going for.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
I would argue if you're using the minimum to do,
I'm not saying they should go give Ben Simmons more
than anybody else's offering. Right for how they like to
play in the open floor, Ben Simmons could still probably
help them there, could probably help them defensively, and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
It's a one year for him and for them and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
If it doesn't work out, you can get rid of
him when this opportunity that you're talking about presents itself, okay,
or even I don't know if he does enough of
what they would want with the situation he's always injured.
But Malcolm brocked In, I mean, if he would take
the minimum or a little bit more to come play
for the Pacers is just he doesn't have to be
on the ball, So that's a bonus. Ben Zimmons kind
of has to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Be yeah, you can, you can hear. I'm not exactly enthused.
And again it's because it's the same thing with the Celtics,
right like when you're going through that one year where
you just kind of know, yeah, we're not gonna make
noise this year, then I'm I automatically just switch into oh, okay,
let's see what we can do upsidewise, like what youth

(01:02:50):
I immediately transition into youth.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Well, I think it's fine to think that way, but
then you I feel like you should still do something
like I just because it the kind of wait is
so because if you're not going we had this conversation
with the Celtics, if you're not going to be committed,
Like the Pacers definitely seem even less likely from the
onset of the season to say, hey, we're gonna tank.
Maybe they get to that point because they're not as

(01:03:14):
good as expected, but they seem like just because that's
how they've done things historically. And also Nemhard and Pascal Siakam,
Benanicmathrin and like all these good players Aaron E. Smith
are still on the team. They're trying to be They
understand they probably won't win a title, but I think
that they're still trying to be a top six team
in the East, and I'd probably like to see them
go get more. I mean, I love Jay Huff and

(01:03:36):
like I guess you technically have some big man depth
if you're willing to scale up Siakam, Jaris Walker getting
more minutes would be a great thing. And you don't,
I want to be clear, you don't want to do
anything that's gonna make you play Benanicmathrin or Jarris Walker less.
So I want to make that clear. But I think
that if you're trying to be good, I think there's
value in whether it's an upside swing play or signing
a veteran who's not gonna cost you much. I would

(01:03:58):
like to see, like maybe someone who could like just
generate offense for others on them, aside from TJ McConnell
and having to place that responsibility on and Andrew Nemhard.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Caleb Houston was waived, right, No, he was not. I'm
pretty sure he's a free agent.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Caleb Houston is a free agent.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Oh, I mean, no appenda is on their payroll, so yeah,
that would make sense. Then Caleb Houston was waived.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
No. See, that's the type of name I'm looking for
if I'm the Pacers, that's the type of swing that
i'd sink. Twenty two year old six eight wing shoots it.
There's a two wave potential there. Like, that's how I'm thinking.
I get what you're thinking is though, Like I'm not
saying that there is no merit to it, but like,

(01:04:50):
let's assume that they bring in Ben all right, he
does fairly well whatever, he's twenty nine thirty ish. Then
he used to get next year, big whoop, what have
you accomplished? I want someone who you can bring along
when Tyrese comes back too, where you can say, oh,

(01:05:12):
now we have this guy as well.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Yeah, I mean I would support that. I think I
support them making like then more addition, I don't I
don't know. I'd probably rather it be like at the
point guard spot or the center spot, like go you
go get Dominic Barlow right now, and you have a
fan in me uh forever, so they okay, Dominic Barlow
is still out there. I guess The other thing that

(01:05:37):
I at least haven't considered throughout having this discussion is
they they even have, like how many bodies on the
roster they already have? They have their fifteen like with
Cam Jones, Johnny Furphy, James huff That's the issue you
run into is though you're gonna get rid of it
Tony Bradley. So that's the other thing that we would
need to mention here. So it would almost have to
be whatever they're gonna do would have to be sort

(01:05:58):
of a trade or they're gonna dump somebody or way
somebody Which of the names that we mentioned is anybody
more sort of intriguing than anyone else on their roster.
That is a problem that you run I mean, like,
I'm not a big Tony Bradley guy, so maybe he
would be the one where if you want to Caleb Houston.
If you want to go get a young guard, if
you want to take a look at Dominic Barlow, I
wouldn't have a problem getting rid of him.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Agreed.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
Our next team up will be the Miami Heat. The
Tyler Hero extension discussion moret three years, one hundred and
forty nine point seven million dollars they could give him,
Would you extend him? Do you think that he's worth
all of that? Which is not the actual max, but
is the max that he could receive? Where how do
you think it ends? What are your thoughts here?

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
Give me the number again, please, three.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Years and one hundred and forty nine point seven million
dollars is the maximum? Doesn't have to be the number
that they sign him for, but that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Is the max he so roughly fifty million a year?

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Yes, no, okay, I get that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Yeah, I like Tyler Hero, but that like we're just
going right back to the discussion we had about like
the fox you know thing. Where where is this d like?
Where is he at? Is he a superstar? Is he
an all star? Who's not a superstar? Is he a
fringe all star? Like? What level is he in? Tyler
Hero is certainly not in that top tier thing, and

(01:07:21):
I would argue fifty roughly fifty million a year. That's
that's that's juicy potential, a little bit juicy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
So what it ends up being like that deal would
be worth the three years about twenty eight percent twenty
eight and a half percent of the salary cap, which
actually isn't so egregious. I actually it's it's interesting that
you just approached it from the pure finances standpoint. I
looked at it saying everything they've done is telegraphed that
they either want to maybe have cap space next year
or have a shit ton of flexibility in twenty twenty seven,

(01:07:51):
which is when a Tyler Hero extension would kick in.
And so I just don't think they're gonna give him one,
like if they make a trade. That's the other thing
here too, is that by the time he's extension eligible,
he's not going to be able to be traded in season.
And are they gonna want to keep all their options
open if a Jannis Attentakupo becomes available or someone else.
But the main thing for me would be, like, what's

(01:08:11):
the number as the heat that if you're planning on
trying to remain malleable flexible in the summer of twenty
twenty seven, that Tyler Hero has to be willing to
accept for you to eat into that by putting him
on the books pack because right now he would be
a free agent. That like, that's part of the appeal
is he comes off the books that year. If Andrew
Wiggins picks up his player option, he comes off the
books as well. Daveian Mitchell's deal comes off the books

(01:08:34):
by then, So I'm curious as to what number they
would especially because they can say, well, he's under contract
for two more years. We can revisit this next summer
if we would like. I'm wondering what the number would
need to be for them to say no, like, let's
do this extension right now, not right now when he's eligible.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
You know what I mean, not to under the current
I guess are roughly the same. I don't think it's
substantially more than what he's learning right now.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Oh interesting, what is he at right now? He's at
thirty million three next year? You could probably talk me
into to pounce on it. I get what you're saying. Yeah,
like thirty five.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
The story you set up, I think, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
If that's the if it's like three years at thirty
five million a pop. I'm probably jumping on it. That's
the deal that you could if you want cap space.
I think you could just trade it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
Yeah, like if you're going above forty or forty five
or goes to fifty, that it's not worth it your
pounds if it's something that is so dramatically beneficial to you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Yes, And I think they've done a good job balancing
because he's not a point guard, nor is Norman Powell,
but Heroes improved a lot as a playmaker. I almost
like the idea where like a Daveian Mitchell we know
is not a point guard because you have pel Larson
and because you have yakachonas like put the ball, give
them reps, put the ball in their hands because Norman

(01:10:00):
how when Tyler hero can play so well off of it.
So you're a Heat team that isn't rebuilding or resetting
next year. You're still trying to be good, but you've
left clear runway to develop like those two players specifically
I'm looking at. I'm curious to see though, whether the
Heat indulge that or if we're gonna see a lot
of Okay, like we're gonna try and make Tyrer Rozier

(01:10:20):
happen again. Or Hero is gonna have the ball a Ton,
Norman Pale is gonna have the ball a Ton. I think, look,
there's room for them to have the ball a ton
and develop those guys. But I do think that's why
Tyler Hero is so important to them. I just don't
know that he is like hashtag we need to get
this extension.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Oh yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Our next team is the Milwaukee Bucks. Mort do they
need another wing or does Kyle Kuzma and Torrian Prince
really do.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
It for you? Do they need more talent? Do they
need like here's the list? Yeah, sure they need not wing,
they need another guard, they need another everything. This is
a team that it is so unbaked that it's yeah, yes,
to answer your question instead of going long term here,

(01:11:07):
they need another wing. Absolutely, they need another wing. Who
who do you have in mind?

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
I don't have targets for them to go after. I
mean when you look at the that's the thing that's
a problem with them. If you look at the free
agency list, it's gonna be pretty slim pickings here, and
then trading gets fairly complicated. So like of the free
agents that are left, Like do they need a reunion
with like they're kind of entered. Oh, which Javonte Green, Tory,
Craig J. Crowder doing Caleb Houston be interesting for them,

(01:11:34):
for sure, that'd be another good name there. I wouldn't
mind them taking a flyer on Kessler Edwards either. I've
always been a little bit intrigued by him. They do
have fifteen guaranteed contracts on the roster, but I'm not
like a Tyler Smith guy, so if you just kind
of need to need to get rid of him, that's
not something that I would be broken up about. They
have sixteen million dollars under the tax as well, so
there are some things they could game if they wanted

(01:11:56):
to go to the trade market, Like if fore, I
don't know what the outgoing money would need to be
to help that. And that's the other problem with this
is so like Kevin Porter, Junior, Ryan Rollins, Gary Trench,
Junior Garrett, they're so cheap after they're and so all
of that. This is something I haven't really realized until
he did this. More than half of their roster just
signed a deal, so they can't even be traded. So

(01:12:17):
Giannis Kuzma, like, you could trade those guys, and that's
basically Aj Green. You could trade him. I think he's
probably more likely to get extended than traded, so that
would be another issue that they're up against. But I
look at them, I don't know that they need another guard.
They just they have a ton and if Jannie is
gonna run enough of the offense, you have Cole Anthony

(01:12:38):
of Ryan Rollins, KPJ. I'm more okay with that. I
look at the win and then bigs with Bobby Portis,
Turner and Giannis. I think you're fine. Jericho Sims is
a great number for them. I just look at It's okay,
Gary trentch Junior, Gary Harris, Torrian Prince. Aj Green not
really a wing. I would like to just see like that,
like if they could get like a veteran in there

(01:12:58):
or a cheap guy, or there is a.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
Trade to be something I can dripple.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
Kuzma thinks he could dribble. What's wrong with Kyle Kuzma?

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Oh do you have?

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Pendulum has really swung? I went from like being a
Kyle Kuzma defender to just like the last season and
a half two seasons, it's been like tough sledding here.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
I look the way that he played this past season.
That was gretious basketball. It was some of the most
selfish basketball I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Just yeah, But it was a little different in Milwaukee,
and I have to imagine he would shoot them like,
because you can't really play worse than he did different
in Milwaukee.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
I hated his shot selection. Also in Milwaukee, I actually
expected him to come in and go, Okay, now I'm
on a team that at least has his chance. Now
I'm really gonna apply myself. I'm gonna be smarter with
my shot selection. I'm gonna go the extra mile, I'm
gonna do all the small stuff. Fat chance. This he
coasted and it was bad shot selection and the decision

(01:14:00):
making was all over the floor. I'm so out on
the cock who's experience in Milwaukee. I'm so out of it,
And like I love that we're just bringing up the Bucks,
Like do they need another wing? We're putting lipstick on
a pig here. They don't like you said that. Oh,
if Giannis is gonna be the guy who's gonna handle
the ball a lot, sure, if we wanted him to
break down by game fifty. Sure, I think this roster

(01:14:24):
is just so bad. I don't trust that Doc Rivers
is gonna play anyone under the age of twenty eight anyway.
Like so, even if Ky Caleb Houston would have been
a nice addition, fat chance getting Doc to play him,
because Doc is an old fart who doesn't know what
to like build long term on his roster or sorry rotations.

(01:14:47):
I just I'm so out on this team this year.
I'm so there's no upside here whatsoever for me. I
absolutely loathe this roster.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
That's interesting. I think you're way too low on them.
I don't even have the Kuzma stuff. He took way
fewer shots on a permanent basis of Milwaukee, so I
think that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
You are still bad. You could say fewer shots and
them still being bad.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
I think, I guess what's tough here is that so
now Damian Lillard's gone, and if there's not a clear
who's the second best player on this roster, that might
embolden him to be more Washington Kuzma than trying to
fit in on a good team. But I think when
there's a clear best player and it's Giannas at tenth,
Kumpo he's gonna have the ball a lot. I'm not
worried about him being as bad or worse, and you
seem to be Viva.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
They would need you to be right. It's kind of
my point here. The Bucks are are hoping that what
you just said is what turns out to be true.
I hope that as well. I just don't have much
faith in it. And also I'm not exactly loving the
idea of, oh, well, it's not Kyle Kushma, let's pivot
to Kevin Porter Junior. That's that's not exactly a recipe

(01:15:53):
for success to me, and I just I still think
this team needs more off of florid leader. And I
say that as a Ryan Rawlins fan, by the way,
I do like that, dude. I mean, I still think
they're short of guard.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
What's interesting is I would agree with you when it
comes to the floor general aspect, but then when you
look at like what they could do and who's tradeable,
like they can only make a massive move because it's
like Kyle Kuzma's the most But then that would make sense.
I just you have to attach a first round pick
to Kyle Kuzma, And I think part of their Giannest
pitch right now was we'll have three tradable first round
picks next summer, So they won't do that, and so

(01:16:29):
they'd be very much kind of like shopping on the margins,
whether it's the trade market. I was trying to figure
out a way to get them Sam Hauser, but they
just run into Boston. Is Boston isn't gonna take Kyle Kuzma.
That's more money and the trade gets so complicated.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Well, if it helps them know Darren Peterson's we are,
would you do?

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
I mean, I think they could get close that would
bring them like uh No, they just run into so
many contract issues like an Anthony Simon's and Sam Hauser
for Kyle if you really want to tank Kyle Kuzma deal,
but I think Boston w want to first. It's part
that equation and the Bucks need to include more money
in there, and it gets tough to get to that point.
So I think they need to I was good call

(01:17:08):
out on the floor general thing. I think the wing
it's easier for them to take a like you now
you have enough flyers at the guard spot, whether it's
Ryan Rollins or kp like ball handlers or Cole Anthony,
so I probably want to see. It doesn't feel like
there's enough upside on the wings for me, where like
Ryan Rollins could pop. You could talk me to that
as a guard spot.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
He could pop. I don't disagree with that. I like him.
He's a good guy.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
So on the wings, who are you saying that about?
Like aj Green? Maybe? Like he's been a better defender
than people expects. I hope he plays a bunch. But
do we trust Doc too? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
I don't think there's any wing here that could like pop.
I like Garret Trump Junior, like I think he could
have a better year than what he had last year,
which wasn't bad. But I think there's there's more to him.
But that's kind of it again. I'm very low one
on the roster construction of these bucks, I really am.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
Let's go on to your New York Knicks. We don't
have to talk about the Michel Bridges extension anymore because
he got one. Did you did you have a problem
with that? By the way, I saw a lot of
people thought it was bad, and he's slated to be
like the fifty fifth highest paid player when it kicks in.
I don't think that that's yeah, I was. Were you surprised?
And how many people did?

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
I've seen it over the course of today that a
lot of people were like, oh, look at how expensive
the Knicks are now, and I'm just I've been just
shaking my head all day long.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
I saw it. I saw it a screenshot of a
tweet Blue Sky that was actually really funny. Someone tweeted
the Knicks Jalen Brunton took a pay cut so the
Knicks could build the team around him, and they turned
around and gave that money to three other guys, And
I was just like, using it as isn't that the
point then? Like, that's why Jalen Brunson took a pay cut.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Just do you understand NBA roster construction much? No, that's
that's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
But yeah, we're not here to talk about that. I
think it was fine. He does need to be better,
but I don't he if it's not, I just I
don't know. And he could still be traded this season
if they need to. I was surprised. I guess at
how many people thought it was just bad. You could
argue about the Tradekacker the player option, sure, but I
bet you if he hit the open market next summer
that I don't know if a team would have given

(01:19:15):
him the max of four years and two hundred and
thirteen an outside team, I bet you he would have
gotten like a four year, two hundred million dollar offer
from somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
I bet, Like, I will say this the last year,
the last guaranteed year, because he has a player option
twenty nine to twenty or twenty thirty, Like, yeah, if
he picks up the player option in the last two years,
that those they have a chance of being a little
not bad. But like where you're thinking, oh, okay, that's
probably a little too rich for where he might be

(01:19:44):
at that point in time. But like you can just
say that about what seventy eighty contracts currently in the NBA.
So like, I'm not just gonna sit there and go, oh,
Mikhil brig has got a horrible deal. It's gonna age Boortley, Like, no, yeah,
do I love the last two years?

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
I not necessarily do I have a problem with it? No, No,
it's it's that is how business gets done.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
So Mitchell Robinson extension, He's basically could get like somewhere
as a max, like somewhere between eighty and ninety is
there a number that you would be comfortable extending him at,
especially now that you know I think part of the
value of Michael Bridge's extension is, oh, we we have
a number for him in twenty twenty six, So they
could as of right now, I think they depending on

(01:20:32):
where the cap lands, they could be like twelve million
bucks below the second apron. That's not including a Mitchell
Robinson deal. And I think it's okay to go in
the second apron. You just can't live there. But is
there a number that would make you be like, okay, yeah,
Le's extend. Would it have to be for the exact
same amount he's making this season, which is about thirteen million?
Would you go a little higher? Are you looking at
the health question marks and just like.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
Go teen million straight flat rate over three years? So
three years forty five I think that feels reasonable.

Speaker 1 (01:21:04):
I mean, if he's wanting to take that, I if he's.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
Not fair enough, like that's his progative, But like, given
how much he's been injured, I think that's a fair offer.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
I feel like it's would you say three for forty five? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
Three forty five?

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
Yeah, that's a number I'm comfortab giving I'm just wondering,
do you think he would accept that?

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
Again, I don't know, but like, if we're being honest here,
you know, fifty nine games in twenty two, twenty three,
thirty one games in twenty three, twenty four, seventeen games
this last season. I mean, you have an argument on
your side here in terms of offering that deal and saying, look, guy,

(01:21:49):
you played forty eight total regular season games over the
past two years. Like, let's let's meet half way, bud,
come on, fifty million, that still gets your food on
the table a year, any single year. That's not it's
even a race crying out.

Speaker 1 (01:22:04):
I do think they probably have a better chance of
him maybe accepting a lower number if all the other
bigs we've already talked about, like a Duran, a Mark Williams,
a Walker Kessler, end up not getting extensions because then
it's teams will have that have the money to go
after Mitchell Robinson. Might I guess some of those guys
would be more expensive. Where's Mitchell Robinson? You've view is
a mid level type guy. But if they're gonna if

(01:22:25):
you're gonna get mid level money, you just offered it
at three for forty five.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
So I'm really think there are teams out there who
are gonna be looking at that same injury pattern and go,
oh yeah for eighty four ninety for Mitch.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
I mean if the teams that have cap space, probably not.
I mean, like some of the teams that have capsleances
already have it, which I wouldn't put it past the Bulls.
Could see them doing something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
Oh you know what, that's smart for like for Mitch
and his agent, that's just that should be a plan
for so many teams. Just all right, the bulls exist,
let's put that in our back pocket and then let's
go to the negotiate with that's.

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
Noage with a good point would on more it's basically
your deal. More like you get it done in average
on your value of fifteen million. It's tradable. It's also
then immediately, well not immediately, but like you would be
immediate because it's less than one hundred and twenty percent raise.
I think so that would probably be an ideal outcome
for the Knicks. But I also wonder. My takeaway is
that I don't think Robinson and Josh Hart are going

(01:23:22):
to be on the team pass this season. So I'm
curious if the Knicks would value having the flexibility of
Mitchell Robinson being one good if he's healthy, but also
when expiring contract and trade talks this season and so
are they just not in a rush to get it,
Like even if he would accept three for forty five,
do the Knicks sit there and say, what if we
have like a Robert Williams situation in our hands, which

(01:23:44):
is a borderline right, like transcendent defender. But he's just
not playing enough games for teams to view that deal,
which is digestible as a value deal.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
I mean, if you went three forty five and you
somehow negotiated a team option into the third year, that
makes this the entire contract so much easier to pivot
off from. Well, at the same time, I think, to
your point, moving him as an expiring contract, just what

(01:24:15):
that is thirteen.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
Roughly forboirteen a little older.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Yeah, to just get right off the cap next year,
especially in a year where the cap is expected to
increase by a smaller the amount than expected. Yeah, I
don't hate that approach at all.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
I had wondered if you were the Boston Celtics and
able to get off other money in the process, so
you need a third team. If you were able to
do something like Mitchell Robinson goes to Boston and then
Boston is getting off of George Niang and Sam Hauser.
Is that something Boston considers, Yeah, you have to compensate

(01:24:53):
a team to take on Niang.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
So that is a great way to sneak tank because
then Mitch plays like twenty two games. Yeah, right, and
they absolutely know I'm getting Yeah, if he's healthy and
if you want to be competitive, absolutely that's a smart way.
If he's just.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
Different from the bigs they kind of normally target though, Right,
that's the that's.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
What might be beggars can't be choosers. And at this
point when it comes to centers and big men, the
Celtics are absolutely beggars. You if Mitch gives you sixty
five seventy games in a year, you're getting incredible value
for the money as well, even if it's an and

(01:25:34):
expiring and you may not even be able to retain
them afterwards. That's like for the Celtics, that's a win
and easy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
This is you just made me think that this is
an extension that I think if it gets done, contrary
to like Bridges or Tyler Hero or even a d
Aaron Fox. I know those are higher level players, but
if it gets done, it feels like it's way more
likely to end up being team friendlier than not. Where
though some of those other ones could have downside this one,
it's you don't offer it, or like, give him a

(01:26:00):
offer that is anything less than this is guaranteed to
be team friendly.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:26:04):
Just the final quick question here their last veterans minimum
they've been tied to just a bunch of players. Is
there either an archetype or a player that you like
or you on board the Ben Simmons experiment. I would
be not on board with it because I think it
essentially means that Josh Hart is always going to be
playing with a non shooter on the court, whether it's
Robinson or Simmons. Good point and the number. I was

(01:26:26):
actually writing about this the other day, Josh Hart like
forty five percent of his shots came at the rim
when he played without Mitchell Robinson last year. That dropped
a twenty six point five percent or around there when
Mitchell Robinson was like on the floor. So if you're
just saying he's playing with another like detrimental non shooter,
like most of his minutes, you negate a lot of

(01:26:48):
what Josh Hart does the best, So I would rather
see them get they only have the minimum, the Vets minimum.
I would rather see them get a Malcolm Brogden and
a mere coffee. A Chris Bouchet, of course, is Cody
Martin healthy. I would even be more okay, and I
actually think Simmons still has some upside as a player.
I'd mean more okay of them just saying you know what,
we're gonna sign Kevin mccullor Junior Diuara, because they they

(01:27:11):
can't afford to sign if they sign a veteran, they
have to give it to sign someone who has zero
years of experience. So if you want mccullor Junior as
like a guaranteed player, I'd rather see them do that,
because one, it signals, oh, they might play some young players.
But two, I just I think Ben Simmons again can
do some things for them defensively, push the pace. But
unless you're planning on trading Josh Hart, I don't like

(01:27:31):
the idea of Ben Simmons on this team.

Speaker 2 (01:27:34):
That's fair. I had actually not considered the josh Hart
Ben Simmons problem, which it would be that's a fair shout.
Otherwise I'd actually been in on that, do we.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
I mean, it's the minimum so you can always say
how many minutes is Ben Simmons gonna play? You can
get rid of them later. So I'm not saying Ben
Simmons is coming in and they're deciding he's better than
Josh Hart. It's just well, if you're paying him with
the intention to play a veteran ten to fifteen minutes
a game, pencil in Robinson's and it's like, you're not
gonna be able to stagger Josh Hart from both of
those guys for most of his minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
Is this Caleb Houston destination?

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
If the Knicks thought in those terms, I would love it,
But there's They had an executive even say to Keith
Smith of spow Track like it's gonna be hard for
the young guys to crack our rotation. And so if
they feel that way about Pocom, Dottie Tyler Kohlick, are
they gonna feel much differently about Caleb? I think they
their biggest need to me, it might be a ball

(01:28:30):
handler they could trust.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
But I think it's just Morris.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
I'd rather see Brogda I'd rather take this thing on
Brogdam if they're gonna go guard, definitely not Russell Westbrook.
You run into a lot of the same Ben Simmons
stuff that we just talked about. But I love the
Emir coffee. I just don't know if he's gonna go
for the for the minimum. So I love Caleb Houston.
I would ask Caleb Houston Cody Martin. Uh, honestly, Cody
Martin if he was healthy, which he has not been. Uh.

(01:28:57):
He blends the line of oh, that guy can do
like little things with the ball in his hand for
other players, but he's also like he will defend some wings.
That might make the most sense. But I really think
they probably need a wing more than a just because
you can have heart and let's just give mchal Bridges
and Ogiananobe more on ball touches. And but I think
you could also make the case they do need another
backup ball handler here just they have Jordan Clarkson. I

(01:29:19):
had mentioned his name. He's just not much your three
point shooter and he could be a defensive detriment. So
if he's playing a bunch of minutes with Yabuseli, I
don't know what that looks like. I would advocate for
their final veterans minimum slot if they use it to
go to a wing though. Yeah, the Orlando Magic mort
they don't really have a lot to talk about other
than do you think they're so let's start here, they're

(01:29:42):
within seven million dollars of ducking the tacks. We agree
that they're gonna duck the tacks at some point this.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
Year, right, Yes, that would seem very very likely.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
Do you think they're gonna do it before the offseason
is over or is this something that'll just get done
in the middle of the season or even after the
regular season ends.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
Trade deadline seems like a reasonable point in time, because
then you have an idea of where you are as
a basketball team. Like if the Magic comes out and
are just gamebusters, perhaps the need to get under the
tax isn't quite so greaches that he might even act
as buyers to some extent at the tradea line, to

(01:30:22):
the extent that they can, because they won't have a
lot of flexibility. But no, if they're just like humming
along that nicely, yeah, I mean you're looking at it.
I mean Jet Howard if he's not playing once again,
which God damn it, Orlando. If that's the case, it's
going to be so upset, then yeah, he because he

(01:30:43):
gets you closer to getting under that. That could be
a guy coming out. We'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
Yeah, he gets some. He has some. So they are
five point six million under the tax. He makes five
point five million. They would need to replace that roster
spot though, So I honestly the name and he's if
you're watching on YouTube was picture here is just. I
think there'd be a team that would just take all
of Gogo Batadz's money. And if you think Mo Wagner's
healthy and you paid Wendall Carter paid in quotes like

(01:31:08):
he's not even on that extension yet, he's so cheap
still ten point nine million, and maybe if you want,
you have Jonathan Isaac Palvin Carroll could play some vive
if you wanted it to. That's the name that I
have circled. Even though he's valuable to just I think
someone would just take him into a trade exception or
their non tax payer mid level and then it's you
duck the tax by doing that. You sign someone to
a minimum and you're done.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
But are you sure he's not gonna be your starting center.

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
So what if are you saying Wendell Carter Junior is
not healthy?

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
I'm saying Wendell Carter Junior has not exactly been great
as of late, including the year before last as well.

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
I think if you're so the at least, I'll say this,
the idea of Wendell Carter Jr. Is way more important
to actualizing the message that you tried to send this summer,
which is that spacing matters. Right, So if you're not,
if you're gonna turn around and you're gonna start go
goo batadze and then you're just shrinking the floor in
another position while inserting Desmond Baine and again, I say

(01:32:10):
this what your rebuke could be. Wen Carter Juniors to
two point three like three point attempts per game last.

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):
Year, that was like he that was an outlier. I'm
very aware that he was hurt. He didn't like that
is the optimizedertion of him was the version of him
three and four years ago, right, And that's what they're
hoping that they're gonna get back.

Speaker 1 (01:32:28):
So I think go Goo Batase is a great like
reserve big if if Orlando is starting him and Wendell
Carter Junior is healthy. There are two things I take
away from that, what the hell is going on with
Wendow Carter Junior? But also, do the magic get it yet?
Because I've taken this offseason is assigned that. Okay, they
understand what they need and they're a little late on
doing it, but they did it in caps lock fashion

(01:32:50):
at least with Tyas Jones and Desmond Bain. So you
can absolutely not start I'm sorry. If Wendell Carter Junior
is healthy, there's no way that I would rather start
Palo Bankaro at the then like put Go Goo Bata
or Mo Wogner even who's not gonna be as much
of a three point shooter either.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
I mean, yeah, I look an optimized version of are
optimized that's the wrong word. A healthy window Carter Junior.
If we're seeing the play that we've seen from him before, Yeah,
I'm taking that and I'm pivoting off Go Go pretty easily.
But are you not concerned about the I don't want
to say lack of availability, but when it's the last

(01:33:29):
time he's ever he's he's actually never cracked seventy games. Wow.
Last season, which we felt was like an injury riddled season,
that was actually the most games played.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
Oh no, I didn't think last year didn't seem like
injury riddled to me, he just had. He definitely had
a down year relative to what he was doing. But
you do raise a good point. And by the way,
I'm mo Wagner. I'm aware he took more three pointers
last year per game than well before. He he just
barely played before he got it or didn't play as
much because he was injured. I just so, let's say
you get rid of Gogo Batadze, you're left with Wendell

(01:34:02):
Carter Junior, Isaac and Moe Wagner as your centers. Wagner
hasn't been injury prone, but he's coming off a major injury.
And then Wendell Carter Junior and Johathan Isaac are not
what you would call durable, so that would be the
thing you'd run into. I think I would just bet on, okay,
those three we will figure out a full center rotation
on any given night without Goga, and I think it's anyone.

(01:34:24):
I'm not advocating that team shouldn't pay the tax. I
just think when you've committed so much money to Bane
Palo and his extension, kicks in Franz Jayeen Suggs. The
longer you can delay there a Peter clock from starting,
the better. And so that's why I bet on them
ducking the tacks.

Speaker 2 (01:34:39):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
Is there a second player, it's just Jet Howard instead
of Gogo Batadze. The fact that would be a discussion
is like pretty damning. I would probably if you told
me getting rid of Jet Howard dump ducks the tax
and you can keep Goga. Sure, but it doesn't. And
so like that's where and then so we're gonna have
to get rid of another player to just duck the game.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
I also want to keep Jet around.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
By the way he should have. I just can't believe,
I know how they feel about defense. I just can't
believe he hasn't gotten more of an extended look with
the Big Club a couple of nights.

Speaker 2 (01:35:12):
Yeah, it's it's it's honestly annoying. And I'm at that
point where I just want to save him. I want
someone to save him and just give him consistent minutes
for like three months, just twenty five minutes right off
the bat somewhere. Let's just see what you have.

Speaker 1 (01:35:29):
Do you know, want to be a really good team
for him. I think Detroit.

Speaker 2 (01:35:34):
Oh I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:35):
Yeah, I think they would play him. I mean, he's
not gonna like they have. They just drafted Chaslinier in
the second round and Jamie Bickerstaff doesn't like to play
youngsters and will play defense YadA YadA. They can insulate
him defensively, and they just I know they got Duncan Robinson,
but you lost both Malik Beasley and Simoni Fontech kiyo,
and so that could be someone who comes in and

(01:35:56):
maybe you trust him to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
The Atlanta would be fun too. They also feel like
they could use just one more wing.

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
Oh, that'd be interesting. Do you think they have the
defense of insulation to play both him and Trey at
the same time.

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
If Dyson Daniels is on the floor with them, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
Fair, Yeah, there are Yeah, Jet Howard, I'm still intrigued
by more So who are you won't treat by Jet
Howard or Jordan Hawkins?

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
Jet Howard easily?

Speaker 1 (01:36:26):
So my is that? Do you think are we falling
victim to he's more of a mystery box because we've
seen more.

Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
Yes, No, I'm not even hiding that that is absolutely
the case.

Speaker 1 (01:36:36):
Yes, surprise, surprise, the Sixers. More, what will Quentin Grimes get?
This is the final restricted free agency?

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
Get him money?

Speaker 1 (01:36:45):
No, I think he'll get bitcoin.

Speaker 2 (01:36:47):
Fuck you, I think that's true. Oh he spends he's
Spencer didn't Winny?

Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
Now, Spencer did Winny? Odell Beckham Junior. Yeah, take your pick.
How do you think it ends with him? We've gone
through Giddy, We've gone through cam Thomas. He seems like
he's the by far of these three. He's the most
intriguing to me just as a player.

Speaker 2 (01:37:06):
Yep. Same, And it feels like everyone is talking about like, oh,
we would like him bad, like seventeen million a year,
which I think would be a fantastic contract. I understand
why he wants a lot, like he came onto the
sixth or seen he showed like I wrote about this
recently over Force, like he showed you showed everyone that

(01:37:27):
he got he had way more on ball chops than
everyone kind of thought, like every NBA player is actually
better than you think he is, like every bit player
because like everyone seeing is kind of thinking, oh, Duncan
Robinson the only thing he can shoot? Like, no, if
you get him into like a pickup game at the local,
while would the local why he tripled wr ass like

(01:37:49):
in a minute. Every single one of these guys are
are extremely good all around players. But I don't think
we understood the extent of how good Quentin Grimes was
on the ball and in terms of creating some three
point looks and just creating offense for himself. I love
his game, love his game, and if the Sixers somehow

(01:38:13):
get him back to deal that averages somewhere of between
like seventeen and twenty million a year, good lord, that's
good business. I don't know what he'll get. I just
don't have a good read on that situation.

Speaker 1 (01:38:28):
I think he's gonna end up getting a little bit
more than the mid level. So like seventeen sounds about right,
and what's interesting, I guess the context of the team
gets iffy, But just because of what we know about
the durability of Paul George and Joelle Embiid, I actually
think he I'll aflaid. I want to make this clear.
I think Jonathan Camika is the most likely restricted free
agent to take his qualifying offer. Same I actually think

(01:38:50):
Quentin Grimes is the one who has the strongest case
to do it because I think more teams would be
interested in him next summer based off what he could
do defensively and just as a plug and play guard,
fringe wing type, and what you could push back and say, well,
just like Jonathan Kaminga might see his role being consistent
with Golden State. Look at all this depth that Philly

(01:39:10):
kind of has and all these on ball players. Someone's
get injured in Philly, like or just gonna miss time.
We already Joel Be's not gonna play back to backs
and Tyres Maxie can't create everything, And because of what
he could do defensively, you're gonna have him above Jared
McCain in the pecking order, I would think. So there
is some risk there, but I actually think he's the

(01:39:31):
one that has the highest upside and also the lowest
risk if he signs his qualifying offer.

Speaker 2 (01:39:37):
I think that's a very good point. So what we
took away from this is that Quentin Grime should take
the qualifying offer.

Speaker 1 (01:39:44):
If they're giving him, let's say, four years and sixty
eight million, I think he should probably just take it,
because ye it's when you're not It's just the whole
situation with free agents is so weird. Being an unrestricted
free agent certainly helps. But do you think for if
it's for weren't sixty eight and they won't go any higher,
would you take it as him or would you roll
the dice on the qualifying offer.

Speaker 2 (01:40:04):
I'm rolling the dice if I'm yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:06):
I think that's Honestly, I think that that's the smart answer.
I gave you the safe answer. I think your answer
was the smart answer, because my bet would be that
he gets more than four for sixty eight next year
in the open market. That would be my guess what
do you think? I think he ends up signing a
deal at least three years for seventeen million on average.

(01:40:29):
I would be surprised if he gets more than nineteen
or twenty million on average, though.

Speaker 2 (01:40:35):
I think they're gonna split the difference a little bit.
It's gonna be a two year balloon deal. Two years
forty ooh.

Speaker 1 (01:40:43):
That'd be interesting. And it seems like that would be
a deal that was built to trade.

Speaker 2 (01:40:47):
M hm, yep, dude, we you know we've talked.

Speaker 1 (01:40:52):
Sorry, Kaminga is involved in like all these trade discussions
that could you see like any team coming in with
their traded player, except like should Utah have interesting Grimes
and try and build a package with with Philly that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
Way Utah of all teams, okay, well.

Speaker 1 (01:41:05):
They have like that massive like Tree. I mean I think, yeah,
don't they.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
Still have Yes? See Atlanta would be seeing. The thing
about Grimes is also he's not necessarily a young player.
He's twenty five, so he's approaching like the win now
time of his career. You have to like balance that
out with the team like interested in him. So who

(01:41:29):
is that team who's like, yeah, we can use him.
Oh I have a fun one. Although ah, well they
have Austin Reeves, so the Lakers can. I would just
like to see him next to Luca again, but in
this different framework where he isn't just the spot up
shooter that he was in Dallas, where Luca is like,

(01:41:52):
oh you got more in the tank, like you you
have more than just being the spot up shooter. I
don't hate that, like Austin Reeves is stares that that
wasn't that's not a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:42:05):
I would love him in Atlanta if they have the
salary to structure to make it work. They don't when
they're close to the tacks and they just don't have
big salaries to trade other than Christops or Trey Young.

Speaker 2 (01:42:13):
I kind of like Utah.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
I know they have Gianta George and Isaiah Collier, but
like Ace, Bailey's gonna do a lot of the on
ball work, so Quentin Grimes can kind of blend what
he does best there. And they have two traded player
exceptions of twenty five million dollars or more.

Speaker 2 (01:42:28):
Is there any fricking way we can get Grimes to
the thunder?

Speaker 1 (01:42:34):
No, he's gonna know. I mean, I don't know. Let
me correct myself. Yes, there are ways, but at that point,
it's just like what are how like? How much are
you paying? You like to pay his price point for
the minutes that he would end up playing for them,
though I don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
That'd be dominant as hell.

Speaker 1 (01:42:51):
I'd love that they're already dominant as hell.

Speaker 2 (01:42:53):
Yeah, I want more. It's also because I think they
still need shooting. We've talked about this, how I didn't
think they should go into this season and be somewhat complacented, Like,
I still think their offense needed some adjusting. Quentin Grimes
would save a lot of that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:12):
Quent Wars be fun in Denver.

Speaker 2 (01:43:16):
That's good Okay, how what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:43:20):
You're giving up they don't have a first round pick
to trade in like Philly's salary structure, they're not gonna
want like like Jonas Valan Judas and Zeke Nagy for
Quenton Grins when there's no first round pick attached. Yeah
what about Yeah, Minnesota doesn't really have anything to work out,
would you. Yeah, I mean there's just he has so
few levers. So yeah, he'll be back in Philly. It

(01:43:41):
feels more likely.

Speaker 2 (01:43:42):
Let's revisit this come trade headline.

Speaker 1 (01:43:45):
You know what sucks too, is that two of the
teams that already gave up on him, Detroit and Dallas
or he would make some sense on too.

Speaker 2 (01:43:53):
The Detroit situation there with him never made sense, Like
how could you not at least see there was a
player in there.

Speaker 1 (01:44:01):
He had some knee stuff. But there's also he had
this in New York too. He was kind of grumbly
behind the scenes about his lack of on ball touches.
So I would assume it. I assume that might have
played a role into it, but also maybe they really
wanted Tim Hardaway junior Michigan. Alum, that's not it. Yeah,
so we move on to the Toronto Raptors. I don't.

(01:44:21):
I mean, they're a team that fascinates me in both
good and bad ways. I don't know what their offseason
unless you think that there's a chance of RJ. Barrett's
going to get an extension, I don't really and Ochack Baji,
I think he should get an extension, but I didn't
want to pick another rookie scale guy. Does this team
need to reorient itself before seeing what they have on
the floor, You kind of know, like, let's wait and

(01:44:42):
see what's going on here before they make any further decision.

Speaker 2 (01:44:45):
I mean, I've made my opinion on this very very clear.
I actually liked them coming into last year. Then they
got super injured, and then they weirdly traded for Brandon Ingram.
Like they did have to do something with that Bruce
Brown contract. So I'm not against them doing something, but
Ingram specifically was a weird choice than the gameame Ingram
a race on an extension without having you know, while

(01:45:07):
he was gonna be an understood free agent, but like
they didn't know anything about like the fit here. So
they're loaded with wings, presumably something's got to go.

Speaker 1 (01:45:16):
They're over the tax too, which is just what were
little d They're like million over that's without filling out.
No they have four where they have how many players
are on their roster? Oh no, they have fifteen spots.
So that's fine. No'll ducket. That's not right.

Speaker 2 (01:45:27):
And Colin mury Boyle's a player I just adore got
drafted in some possibly the worst situation for him, precisely
because they have the three wings that have to play
out of position and like you're gonna have to play
Scottie Barnes a ton at the four. I just don't
know what this roster is. I think it's it seems unfinished.

(01:45:51):
It seems like it's like in a stage of something
and we're just kind of waiting for something to happen.
So everything is kind of more.

Speaker 1 (01:46:01):
Which, by the way, you get rid of MESSI U
jiy and right, and so the optics of that are bad.
There's obviously things brewing behind the scenes. Further, but what
was the this The fact that nothing else has happened
leads me to question what was the actual catalyst behind it?
Was it money power? Because if it was his vision,

(01:46:22):
if you claim he didn't deliver, what have you done
to pivot away from said vision. You've done absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:46:27):
Nothing right, right, That's a good point.

Speaker 1 (01:46:32):
I think I'm so intrigued. Maybe it's morbid curiosity that,
like with this roster, I could see them just saying,
let's see what we have before we make any moves.
But I really think they need just they have so
many bigs who don't shoot, like they need to be
the du operation team. I'd like, just get someone in here,
or bring Chris Muchet back for crime. Just get someone

(01:46:53):
in here who can potentially provide some floor spacing at
the four slash five on a consistent basis. It could
be a shot in the dark. But please, for the
love of everything, take that shot in the dark.

Speaker 2 (01:47:05):
I interest you in a slightly used in Kola Busevich.

Speaker 1 (01:47:09):
Ooh, what's that trade look like? Because they already have
Yaka Pearl, so you're just paying forty million bucks for
Vouch and y'ah. First of all, Yaka Pearl is gonna
get a statue in Toronto. I'm assuming at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:47:21):
They love him so they it might not be that
guy coming back. I don't know. Maybe it's a larger
framework with RJ. Barrett going to Chicago.

Speaker 1 (01:47:28):
I don't honestly RJ Barrett for Vouch and Iodsunmu should
the Bulls take a flyer on that? Or would the.

Speaker 2 (01:47:34):
Rafting you've pitched that exact trade on one point?

Speaker 1 (01:47:37):
Actually, oh have I I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:47:39):
I think you don't think you have because that rings
a bell and I think we both liked it.

Speaker 1 (01:47:44):
Do it well, Isaaca Corals now in Chicago and you've
Josh Giddy. I don't really love Barrett's fit there. I
also feel bad putting him on the balls.

Speaker 2 (01:47:51):
I feel bad about everyone getting drafted or assigned to
the Bulls. It's all bad.

Speaker 1 (01:47:56):
It is. So you have RJ under contract for a
couple more years, higher upside than to Sue Mo revooch
so I think you can easily justify it from Chicago's
and knowing that dis soon was going to be a
free agent. But I don't know, man, the idea of
just having a Coro and Giddy and Barren on the
same team.

Speaker 2 (01:48:11):
Honestly, I just want to know how you get Sanely
and Caulinmary Bulls on the floor. That's what I need
to know. I need to get those two minutes and
I and if they don't get minutes. I'm going to
be pissed.

Speaker 1 (01:48:22):
Do we trust because I didn't mention mais Vivili. Do
we trust that he can be the guy that just
like plays actual minutes and gets up more threes than
we've seen him take?

Speaker 2 (01:48:32):
Yeah? I trust.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
Maybe they could just let it ride if the if
the plan is to actually play him, then maybe you
just want.

Speaker 2 (01:48:41):
To some team needs to eventually. I'm getting very really
tired of this. Like I played literally story mis Johnson
in Paris in January, like why is this dude not
playing anymore?

Speaker 1 (01:48:54):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:48:54):
And he was like he was. He was being very polite,
but he was like, well, we like how he stays ready,
which is always an answer for he's just not playing.
And I needed to know why he's too good free
mamu for I.

Speaker 1 (01:49:07):
Mean he was, he's on the Raptors now he is,
he is in Theory free. If you're gonna play him,
I guess you just let it ride. I still would
like to see Chris Bouchet brought back as another well no,
but doesn't as another potential floor space or I just
don't know who do you want to boot from this roster?

Speaker 2 (01:49:25):
Have you seen the movie The prestige. Yes, all right,
So you remember that machine that that just copies every
single person, all all the Hugh Jackman characters, They just
keep getting copied. You want that for Chris Bouchet, just
for your damn self, that's what you want. You want
you want to be consistently surrounded by Chris Bouget. You
want Chris Bouchy on every single goddamn roster in this league.

Speaker 1 (01:49:49):
Just honestly, if I wasn't so determined to put another
wing on the Knicks, I would be advocating, like hell
for them beside him, and I still kind of hope
they do.

Speaker 2 (01:49:56):
But this is my shocked face. Yes, I would prefer.

Speaker 1 (01:49:59):
To see him go somewhere. I know he'll play a
bunch and I don't know if that's even Toronto anymore.
Because you have no that's oh what is your What
do you have against Chris Bouchet?

Speaker 2 (01:50:09):
I no, no, no, I like Chris Bouche, I have
something against you. No, I actually don't have something against
your eternal obtimism about it. I just need to see
the vision, like I need to understand what it is.
Does he have something on you? Mister Favalley has his
age and reached out.

Speaker 1 (01:50:31):
He has he has on me. He has his heart
and he has my heart. That's what That's what's happening here.

Speaker 2 (01:50:37):
Okay, God damn it. That was sweet, fair enough.

Speaker 1 (01:50:39):
I think, Look, I think it'd be nice to have
someone other than mom who could stretch the floor at
that four or five spot. But I just don't maybe
get rid of Jamison Battle. I know he showed some
signs as a shooter last year. We know Garrett Temple's
like not gonna leave. So if there's an Arjae Barrett
trade where you somehow wind up with a roster spot,
although that seems unlikely at the moment, I would like
to see them do that. But I think this team

(01:51:00):
does have a lot of just oh these are these
are NBA players, so they're probably in wait and see mode.
But we know they're gonna duck attacks eventually. And when
they do, whether it's his offseason or during the season,
I hope they add some stretch to the front court
or MoMu what did he How many years ago was
it when MoMu played that glorious stretch whereas like twenty
something games with the Spurs and he was playing like
twenty plus minutes per game or was that four years ago?

(01:51:22):
Three years ago, two years ago?

Speaker 2 (01:51:24):
Thing? Right? That was.

Speaker 1 (01:51:28):
It wasn't last season. It definitely wasn't the season before.
So twenty twenty two wasn't it?

Speaker 2 (01:51:32):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:51:33):
Yeah? Double yeah? So he was with the Spurs. Yeah,
oh that was twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:51:36):
Two, three years yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:51:39):
Yep, glorious. He got to play twenty three point three
minutes per game in nineteen games with the Spurs.

Speaker 2 (01:51:47):
So I was seven trade from Milwaukee.

Speaker 1 (01:51:49):
Yeah, so they the Raptors have their answer at the
five trade. They should after extending Perol, they should wave him.
I'm excited about Johnson Mogo, but I just I hate
is fit on this roster. It's like a Cala Murray
Boyles situation here. So do you have anything else on them?

Speaker 2 (01:52:05):
I do not.

Speaker 1 (01:52:07):
We move on to the final team, the Washington Wizards.
I don't like. I like. I think they're solid, offseason,
solid draft. My two things with them, let's start here.
Are you fine with the center position with the Tristan
Vuksovich and you have Marvin Bagley and then you have
Alex arr Are you okay with them sitting that way?
Or do you think it'd be nice to have, like
maybe more of a veteran guy in there who's not Badley.

Speaker 2 (01:52:30):
I wouldn't hate one more center, primarily because Sar has
been very vocal about wanting to play the four. So like,
all right, if that's like it.

Speaker 1 (01:52:38):
Was his favorite player, Anthony Davis growing up, do we know?

Speaker 2 (01:52:41):
I know? And you know what actually scratched that if
you kind of forced me into the center spot and
you basically left them out, don't become the next well
you want to be. You wanted to become the next
Anthony Davis from a skill perspective, but not from like
the weird I need to be a four ideology. That's
just bad. But maybe you just show him, horn him

(01:53:03):
in as the center and say live with it. Fine.
But yeah, assuming they want to appease him and play
him more so forward, Yeah, they're probably gonna need a center.
What are they? Should they be in a rush? I
don't think so. I mean, they're not trying to win
right now, they're trying to develop it. If anything, I.

Speaker 1 (01:53:24):
Think I'm probably fin I mean, it's also just they
don't have roster spots at the moment, I guess, which
would leave you my second question I'm kind of intrigued
by Vuksovich, and I say that without being like ironic.
That provide some stretch there. But my question to you
is because all their roster spots are taken up right now,
and they do have sort of a ton of guard
types or even just perimeter types, like after getting Dylan Jones,

(01:53:49):
and as of now, Malachi Brandam is still on this roster.
And of course you have bub Carrington, you have Will Riley.
A J. Johnson did some thing for them last year.
There's Keishaan George. Would there be any benefit they already
bought out Marcus Art Is there any benefit to doing
the same with one of CJ. McCollum or Chris Middleton?
Or you're trying to hold onto both of them and
reboot some of the value or use them as mentors mentors.

Speaker 2 (01:54:09):
That's why I actually hated they bought out Marcus Smart,
but he actively wanted out of that situation, so they
did right by him. Thus they courage favored with some agents.
That's never a better.

Speaker 1 (01:54:20):
That's so kind of proof that expiring contracts aren't what
they used to be. Just like it seems like you
wouldn't normally see a buyout like that in the off season.
Ditto with DeAndre Ayton.

Speaker 2 (01:54:29):
Yeah no, and again with the with the rules of
not being able to sign guys if you're over the
second apron, it's a guy or is that even the
first a print as well? I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:54:42):
Well, in the off season, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:54:43):
So that's the that's the point. That's the yeah, because
since you can't do that in the regular season, now
you've got to get that business out of the way earlier.

Speaker 1 (01:54:52):
Oh, that's a great point. So yeah, it's maybe not
a comment on expiring contracts as much as it is
the era of aprons.

Speaker 2 (01:54:59):
Yeah, except so I would not buy out Chris or CJ.
Great mentors like those like I think you and I
have both heard the same things that those guys are
great locker room guys, great leaders. That is the right
way to establish a culture. That is the right way
to establish something, you know, a not a track record,

(01:55:21):
what's the word. I'm looking for a new beginning for
young players, just in terms of understanding what it takes
to be a successful NBA guy like Middleton, former All Star.
I don't think McCollum ever made an All Star team,
but he was freaking close. So like the high caliber players,
they can tell those guys, look, if you want to

(01:55:42):
stick around for twelve fifteen years, this is the recipe.
This is how you get it done. They're going to
act as extended arms of the coaching staffs on the
floor in the games. You can never put a price
tag on that. That is invaluable. So I just love
the process over from the Wizards here. I'm not sitting

(01:56:02):
here and saying the results are automatically gonna be there.
Like I have question marks. Is Trey Johnson the next
Jordan Hawkins? Is he the next Ray Allen? That's a
legit question, like he can fall anywhere between that. Like
Alex Sar, we still don't know fully what the hell
he is, also a guy who needs more time. Bob Carrington.

(01:56:23):
Still question marks. But the process of having those guys
and buying low on Cam Whitmore, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Cam Whitmore,
who apparently, according to me, will average twenty three points
per game this coming season. Book it. Yeah, It's I

(01:56:43):
just I just yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:56:44):
I think what's tough is one of the like one
or both of those guys isn't going to finish the
season in Washington. But that also would then mean they
might have been the vehicle through which the Wizards got
more assets by taking on salary, which is what they
did at the trade deadline like that. I mean they
did it twice last year. They did it with Marcus Art.
They got that pick and then they got value from
the Bucks as part of Kya Kuzma trades. That wasn't

(01:57:06):
that was that was like a salary dump on their part.
But it's a salary dump on the Bucks part. It's
just so, yeah, I'm with you, and if they I
think it helps that if they really want to create
a roster spot. Malachi Brandam is someone that you could
trade like the five million dollar salary for another player
or just wave.

Speaker 2 (01:57:20):
Here you go, NBA team take Malachi Brandam. That should
be doable.

Speaker 1 (01:57:25):
Well no, I meant more so if it's if you
need to sign somebody, you wave him. But if you're
if it's a trade like that's a five million dollar
you could save a team money because of how far
beneath the tacks they are right now.

Speaker 2 (01:57:37):
So there's like a type just to like the nets
for something just uh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:57:45):
But I'm saying so if if they didn't have another
person who felt like an obvious Oh, we could get
rid of this roster spot. I might just I would wonder,
But I am a big believer in like, Okay, you
have these two high character guys around, and they're also
probably more so. CJ. Mccollumy so much money. I'd be
surprised if he's well, they're both in the thirties, but
these are like Chris Middleton to me, I'm still a

(01:58:05):
sucker for to where it's all. I could see him
a team really wanting him with the deadline so they
could still have value. But I would have thought that
if you made me pick between who would have been
easier to trade between Smart or McCollum, I would have
picked Smart. And yet he's gone, So I don't think
they need to by any stretch. But I'm curious to
see this deviates from the topic. Just what does this

(01:58:27):
mean for the rest of the season. Do they just
want those guys coming off the books you get a
full year of that mentorship, or is this a situation
they look at buyouts after the trade deadline if they
can't move them.

Speaker 2 (01:58:38):
I wouldn't be shocked if it's the mentorship for a
full year. Don't underestimate just how much that means to
have that consistent presence throughout an NBA calendar year.

Speaker 1 (01:58:49):
I could so see that from the Wizard's perspective. But
if you're Middleton or CJ. McCollum, and especially if you're not,
like which do you expect both of them to play
A ton?

Speaker 2 (01:58:59):
I expect to play a ton is a different like
what is that categorization? I mean Middleton, we know that
he physically is probably best suited for a round twenty
minutes per game now, right, Like we know he can't
handle forty forty five minutes anymore. M colum probably can
handle more minutes. I don't know the answer to that, honestly.

(01:59:20):
But I also think that those two guys who are
not gonna make a fuss.

Speaker 1 (01:59:24):
That's interesting because I would just wonder. And the Wizards,
I don't think are gonna need to like Tank. I
think they'll be organically bad. Yeah, But if you're CJ. McCollum,
if you're Chris Middleton and you're healthy, you're not playing
a bunch of minutes the team's not winning. Are they
at the point in their career where they're content to
just spend this entire season being that.

Speaker 2 (01:59:45):
I mean, the collectively collectively have sixty three million reasons
to be satisfied.

Speaker 1 (01:59:51):
I understand that. But that's not you know, that's not
how this I.

Speaker 2 (01:59:53):
Know, I know. I actually just think those two guys
are very understanding of how the NP works. McCollum, especially
like whenever you hear him talk about like the workings
of the league, he seems to be very like, oh, yeah,
this is what happens, this is what happens. I think
he gets it. I think he understands that this is
actually best for the franchise. Whether he's gonna say, hey,

(02:00:15):
that's not best for me, that remains to be seen.
I mean, this is I think.

Speaker 1 (02:00:19):
Middle Trade is the one who's more likely to say that.
If I had to guess, Okay, interesting, but yeah, uh
pretty good offseason from the Wizards. Well, I'll have to
do report We'll have to do report card grades at
some point. You have anything else before we skid at all.
We did it in almost less than two hours.

Speaker 2 (02:00:37):
We certainly did not know.

Speaker 1 (02:00:40):
Can you tell everyone where they can find you at
all the great work that you do, sir?

Speaker 2 (02:00:44):
Thank you? Yeah, you can find my work over at
Yahoo Sports or at Forbes. You can listen to my
podcast at the MP Podcast and if you speak Thingish,
you don't find my podcast at the Post.

Speaker 1 (02:00:54):
Until next time, and as always, leave you with the
shout out for the one, the only we're going off
script because More hates him for no good reason. Shout
out mister Chris black Shack

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Unfinished NBA Offseason Business (Eastern Conference) - Featuring Dan Favale

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Unfinished NBA Offseason Business (Eastern Conference) - Featuring Dan Favale