What Are We Thinking: Western Conference - Featuring Bryan Toporek

Mort & Bry share their thoughts on select teams, this time from the Western Conference.

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https://www.fanduel.com/research/nba

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, my name is Morton Jensen and you're listening to
the NBA podcast. Hi, and welcome to the NBA Podcast.
My name is Morton Jensen, and today we'll be going
into the second episode of our East West What Are
the Thoughts Pop into Our Heads series, where I obviously

(00:31):
have Mike great buddy Brian Sapporik back on this show.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
How are you, sir?

Speaker 3 (00:35):
I am doing well. Thank you again for having me. Honestly,
I'm just so excited we made it through the East
without talking about the six Ers it all, so thank
you for that.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
That was a true gift, right, But you did have
to mention the bulls, which means the people tuned out
after the first five minutes.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
That's great. Hopefully they came back for the rest of it.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, let's hope.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
So at the very least, we're going into the Western
Conference and you want to start off like it's yours
if you're an ESPN talking head, because you want to
go into the Lakers.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I love it, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, I mean I feel like it's podcast tradition to
only talk about the Lakers, So let's let's lean right
into it. I mean, look, the Lebron's stuff is whatever.
At this point, it's Lebron being passive aggressive, which he
does every off season. No one's falling for it because
he's forty and he's, you know, probably the last year

(01:28):
of his career. No one thinks he's a real threat
to actually request out. He is a no trade clause anyway,
so he's going to have to approve any deal. It's very,
very hard to make a one that works for both sides,
but sure, let's leave the option open. I think my
bigger question for that moving forward is one. I mean,
Luca becomes eligible to assign an extension later this week,

(01:52):
do they get him to high that deal, because if not,
that's when shit really starts to hit the fan. But
even if they do, you know, we've been hearing like
when they did not re sign Dorian Finney Smith, a
lot of Lakers fans were mad, and you know, in retrospect,
their choice was basically Dorian Vinnie Smith or Aighton and

(02:17):
Jake Lauravia. And I think nine out of ten or
ninety nine of one hundred people would choose the latter,
So I don't fault them for that, right. But the
rationale that was cited by David Menneman was that they
wanted to maintain some long term financial flexibility to have
max cap space. He specifically cited twenty twenty seven, although

(02:38):
they could have it as early as next offseason. So
I guess I'm just wondering, like, do they have a
target in mind already. If so, who is it or
are they just deciding, like we want to just maintain
our flexibility for whatever Lebron retires, right it could because
we're the Lakers. If we have a max caps lot

(03:01):
and can make the pitch come play with Lex to
Luka Doncic, that's gonna be more appealing than like what
we were talking about last episode with the Wizards, Like
they'll have the max caps a lot next off season potentially,
But yeah, you're probably not gonna lure a superstar free
agent to the Wizards, whereas like the Lakers.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Come play with Carrington does.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Not not quite So Yeah, I guess you've been alluding
to Luca and Jogic wanting to play together, and now
it feels like, you know, Jokic did not sign the
extension with the Nuggets this offseason, which makes sense. He
can make more money if he resigns next year. The
Nuggets had a great off season. They I mean, after

(03:44):
years of bleeding out depth, they did a really really
good job replenishing that, bringing back Bruce Brown, flipping MPJ
for Cam Johnson, Like I loved a lot of Jonas Valanciunis,
assuming he actually stays stateside, So I think they had
a great off seas then, But like, is that the plan?
Is Giannis the plan? Like who is this star free

(04:05):
agent that they're going after? Because I thought it might
be Jared Jackson Junior, but he just re signed with
the Grizzlies, so he is now off the market.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
For way too much money if you ask me. But
that's a time for a different day. Sure, wouldn't it
be the weirdest thing ever if it's the Lakers that
end up having Jokisch and Vantage, because like you would
assume that those two guys would have preferred to stay
with an organization that's a little bit less of like
a media's engine draw right, like kis in the lake

(04:37):
with the Lakers. It doesn't have the same like an understated.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Element to it.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
I want to say, like him being in Tinseltown with
the cameras, you could easily see scenario or where he'd
be like, really, really here, Luca, this is where we
signed up, buddy.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
What No, But it's it's true.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
I do think we have a more pressing question as well,
before we start talking about like stars, I know they can't,
you know, extend him until what.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Is it August first, August third, third?

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Sorry second? No, second, second?

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Second?

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Daron Fox is August.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Third, Okay, So and that's right right around around the
corner admittedly, So, but are we sure that Luca is like, yeah,
sign me the f up or what that.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Trade from Dallas potentially have given him a more skeptical
your view of the NBA business at large. Like, look,
I'm not saying that he has. He might be just
waiting for the date to ride and then he'll sign immediately.
So I mean, but I'm like, like Dan Favali and

(05:55):
I always say, we're just asking questions.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Sure, No, I think that's the right question to be asking.
And I would imagine a lot of the NBA coverage
this week is going to be about both him and
Deer and Fox, who also is going to be eligible
for an extension toward the end of the week here,
and like, I fully expect that question to come up
from reporters as well. I mean they I feel like
they've been telegraphing that like Luca and the Lakers have

(06:19):
been working, have been aligned to this offseason, like Luco
apparently was the one who recruited Marcus Smart to sign
with them. So I don't think the Lakers have done
anything wrong since acquiring him, if anything, like, they have
sent a very clear message that we are building around
you and we are not building around Lebron James anymore,
which you know, I think is a very positive sign

(06:42):
if you were his camp, that you're not going to
bend over and just take it from Clutch sports anymore.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Oh, I saw you were just going to say you
don't want to bend a knee to the King.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
That would have been that I should.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
But I think what type of contract he signs, if
he does sign one, is also interesting because there's a
real argument that he should take three years instead of
four so he can get back and hit free agency
right when he hits the ten year and can get
the full thirty five percent max that he can no
longer get because the MAVs traded him. So I think

(07:19):
the only outcome that would actually shock me is if
he took a full four year deal. Yeah, or especially
I fully guaranteed, like no player option on it. But yeah,
I think that's a very fair question to have that
we're going to hear a lot about this week.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Then I'm wondering, Brian, if we should actually combine two
teams into this first segment. Okay, I just say Lakers
and Spurs because you bring up Daron Fox, that's one thing.
But I mean, are if you're Luka Dancic and if

(07:55):
you know how good big spas and obviously he's well
aware of the Spurs have very very many assets, and
they also have so many avenues to clear salary and easily.
So there it seemed who could absolutely enter next year
with a lot of free money and a lot or

(08:19):
freed up cap space and or a lot of avenues
to conduct a sin and trade. For example, Like if
you're Luca, that might be interesting because even if they
did get DeAndre Aiden, you're still looking at a situation
in Los Angeles where Lebron is gonna eventually age out
and just retire. How much faith do you have in

(08:40):
Jandre Aiden ever turning into like a legitimate number two
that that number is probably closer to zero than it
is fifty or twenty five. You don't really have a
lot of weapons, like legitimately second level weapons around Luca there,
unless you believe that Ruya Hashima is bound to take
a big leap like you have Austin Reeves. But his

(09:01):
contractual status is also up at the air, because obviously
he's not going to sign extension off the number that
he's learning right now. Once again, Oh, Brian, we can
play one of the hits, the veteran extension limits.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
It's still bad. Surprise, surprise. We've been talking about this
for like seven years.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, so Austin Reeves still around, but you know, you
never know. I'm just saying Luca would be smart in
not rushing into a situation. Mm hmm. And if the
Spurs are right there, I just wouldn't close that door.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting thought, especially because like with
the Spurs, they make the trade for Daron Fox, and
you know, the I think the assumption was like, you
don't make that trade unless you're willing to pay him
what he wants and an extension. But that was before
they got Dylan Harper. So, like I have an article

(09:58):
that's set to go out sorry written and just ready
to drop it at the beginning of August, so it's
closer to when he actually signs. But like, are we
sure that he's getting the full four year two hundred
and twenty nine or whatever. I guess there's it will
be lower now it was the new cap projection, but
like two hundred and twenty plus million dollar extension because

(10:19):
should I No, Like, I don't think he should agreed.
I just think I think we're starting to see it,
and I think it's gonna become more apparent in the
next few years. But like the Michael Porter juniors of
the world, the I hate to lump him in here,
but like a Lori Markinen, a Jared Jackson junior who

(10:41):
mentioned earlier like those were guys under the old CBA
where no brain or maxes under the new one, I
don't think they are. I think there's room for negotiation,
and so I don't know that. I mean, the Spurs
have leverage over Fox because they have Harper and they

(11:02):
have Sefan Castle that like, yeah, it would suck to
lose him for nothing, especially given how much they gave
up to get him right. They did give up multiple
for John Bisram and that would suck for to your rental.
But I don't know. I just think you're gonna hamstering
yourself if you're just like handing him a blank check

(11:24):
like I you know, maybe it's twenty seven percent of
the cap instead thirty. I'm not saying he's like a
mid level guy, but I just don't know that he's
a no brainer. You max this guy when you already
like I guess if he was a cleaner fit with
Harper and Castle, it might be different, or if they
didn't have as much positional overlap with those three guys,

(11:46):
it would be different. But like not knowing which of
those three are gonna be the long term keepers next
to Wemby, you just don't want to sign Fox to
a deal that's gonna get underwater.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Certainly, I look this was this would be a little
bit harsh to fox By. I would just not extend
him until basically after the Lakers have extended Luca, Like
I wouldn't be the first one to blink here if
I'm the Spurs, because if I'm extending Taron Fox, I
you know, I'm not saying I'm stuck with him, because

(12:20):
that's a that's a very negative connensation stuck. But like
what I mean by that if if Luca had interest
in joining that you know, the team next summer, for example,
and or if the Spurs just actively wanted to be
a Luca Donci's destination.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
You kind of want to keep your options open a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
So if the like, you can go out and extend
Daron Fox if Luca, like was what was it August second?
You said, like, if Luca, Yeah, August second. If Luca signs,
then the day after when Daron Fox is eligible, yeah, sure,
go right ahead because you can still flip that contract.
But eventually, I do think the Spurs will have to

(12:59):
like swing big on something. Like I wrote an article
over at Forbes also about like there right now they're
spending over twenty four million this season on backup centers
in form of Kelly Linik and Luke Cornett. That gives
up some trade deadline vibes. In my opinion, that feels
like there's there might be a trade coming, or at

(13:19):
least they're open to making a trade near the deadline,
So like I we'll see what happens. I do think
they should be open minded to doing something major if
something comes out, Like we know, they were rumored to
be a destination for Yiannis if Yannis wanted to, you know,
go away from Milwaukee. I think all the big names

(13:42):
that are within, you know, the sphere of Wemby should
be And when I say sphere, I mean like close
to him and the level you should be open minded
to it for sure, and why not try to go
all out for Luca next year and that? But that
just necessitates that you don't add want millions of your
books in the coming years.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
If let's say Luca doesn't sign the extension and Fox
doesn't sign the extension, or they don't the Spurs because
Luca doesn't, they decide not to do Fox, and they
think where there's a real chance we could get Luca
either buy a sign and trade or I mean, you know,
if Luca doesn't sign the extension, like, do the Lakers

(14:24):
have to consider training him preemptively?

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I mean probably they have to consider it.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yes, So what's what would you be willing to give
up if you're the Spurs, Like would you do you know,
presumably Fox would be the major salary matching piece, and
then like would you throw in Harper and multiple future
first round picks? Would you throw in Carter Bryant? Like,

(14:51):
what what would the deal be that you'd be willing
to offer?

Speaker 1 (14:55):
I would, I would be willing to offer a substantial
amount of assets. Yes, I mean again, I look, we
can see here all and go back to like the
MAVs trade and of it all. Like I you know,
there were some people are trying to justify in some
weird way, but like, I would not use that as
a baseline. What I'm saying is, if I'm the Spurs,

(15:18):
I'm not approaching a second Dotchage trade with the mindset of, oh, well,
you guys only gave up X to get him, so
we're only open minded to giving up X to acquire
him too.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
I think that's out of the window.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
The Lakers made out like bandits in that trade, so
the Spurs can't go in with that mindset. They have
to say, all right, this offer starts with the Aaron
Fox and probably Dylan Harper too, like those like that's
a brand new backcourt for you guys, Like you get
an all star caliber point guard. You get a guy
who might become an all star combo two guard, one guard,

(15:53):
whatever you want to.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Label him as. And look, he wants to find Castle too.
We can probably rache that. But then eventually you do
have to make like some sort of like you know,
a stop gap or not a stop gap.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
You have to have limits where it's either this guy,
like let's say the Lakers insist on also adding heart
of Bryant to that package. You might go, well, you know,
you can take him, or you can say, you know,
a first of some capacity protecting some capacity or whatever,
because I don't think you should add like a substantial

(16:27):
amount of draft picks if you're sending out Fox and
Dylan Harper and Stefan Castle, for example, if those three
players are out going, you're not sending out four or five.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Draft picks, right right. No, definitely, not like.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
There are limits, but you do have to s spurs
go all out, because that is depairing Brian like that
is depairing I'm going to reference this again. Way back when,
when Luca was not a rookie, but I think he
was in his second year, I had like a Danish

(17:01):
Patreon and we did a podcast where we're like, well,
how do you best build around Lukadantic? And I remember
the player we came up with was it was actually
Anthony Davis because like, oh inside outside, game, defensive, anchored
all that. The interest has changed. Now Brian the player in,
it's one player. It's Wemby. That is the Luka donc

(17:25):
fit like that is the big man spare him with.
And I say that as a guy who would love
to see Yokichen Luca together. But that's primarily offensively from
its way perspective. It's Wemby and it's not even remotely.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Close, yep yep fully fully, I mean that's the thing.
Like the Spurs did not have to give up a ton.
They gave up like some some actual value to get
Darren Fox, but they did not dip, like so they
did not do what the Bucks did with Drew with Dame,

(18:01):
Like they still have plenty.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Of chips, yeah yeah, but like.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
This is where they need to be careful because a
lot of guys are gonna want I mean, Darren Fox
wanted to come to San Antonio to play with Wemby.
A lot of guys are gonna want to come to
San Antonio and play with Wemby. And this is where
you need to start being selective because once you do
start depleting your chips if a guy like Luca or
you'll get your Giannis later, decides I want to come
and you have already spent them on three like lesser stars,

(18:33):
then you're gonna be kicking yourself. So absolutely, I mean,
like I it would not totally shock me if Luca
did want to play with Wemby, and I think it
would be I mean, hell, we could be predicting a
very fun week in the NBA coming up, especially for
late July early August. If we start to get some

(18:55):
sounds of like, oh, Luca's not going to sign this succession,
the Spurs aren't gonna sign Fox and the succession, you're
gonna start to get the Windhorst like what are they doing.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
To Yeah, no, it's a really good point. I like
the fact about the point about being selective. I mean, look,
not to put too fine a point on it, but
like the Spurs right now with Weimby, they're Salmahayak. They
have a world of suitors. Like, look, I might get
in line for Salma Jyak. That doesn't mean she she

(19:24):
will pick my ass man. There are plenty of better alternatives.
So like if she chose me, she'll have chosen poorly.
To be selective, right, and that is the situation they
find themselves in with with Wemby, and I do think
Fox was like, how to phrase this, like, I think
the Spurs were like, wow, Jaron Fox wants to come here. Great,

(19:44):
Like that's an that's a former All NBA guard, he's
under thirty, he's like super fast, he's good defensively. Oh,
like they were because they've never been you know, quote
unquote a star free agents destination. So I also think
for them that was something new. Oh, Jerr Fox wants
to come, let's go grab his ass, and they did
very cheaply. So fortunately for them, by the way the

(20:06):
Bulls held out helped out in that regard because the
Kings and the Spurs called them up after having dealt
with them individually before, were like, who can we dumb
these contracts on bulls?

Speaker 2 (20:18):
The bulls absolutely.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Bulls and behold the Bulls are like, yeah, we'll take
those contracts.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
That's fine, that's fine. So like that that was a
pretty strong play on their part. But yes, they the
Spurs will absolutely have to look at the market and
they will have to be probably better than they've been
years past in finding intel. I think just in terms
of figuring out who wants.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
To be here who doesn't, which like what kind of player,
who's the best player out there? Who wants to play
with Wemby?

Speaker 3 (20:50):
Yeah? Right, and it could. I mean that's the thing,
like if it's Lukas, like those are the big three
at anyone else unless I mean Shay, I guess, but
Shange's luck, he's not even okay. See, so you know,
maybe like a Cooper Flag gets there one day, maybe

(21:11):
one of these kids next year. You know, the top
of the draft is supposed to be loaded, like maybe
one of them gets to that point at some point
in their careers. But like, those are the big three too.
Before you are locking in a major commitment, you need
to make sure you have zero chance at getting any
of those three. Or again, if you do, like you
want to sign Daron Fox to a contract that eventually,

(21:33):
if you need to flip him in a package for
Luka Dncic, the Lakers are not going to recoil and
say we don't want him on this contract. You're gonna
have to give us even more to use him as
part of the package.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Right.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
But it's also it's the difficulty here because let's say
Luca is interested in joining the Spurs, then he sees
them extend Daron Fox, you want to be really careful there,
because if lucas like, oh, I guess that options on
the table, let me just go sign with the Lakers,
Like somehow, some way, this burst will have to make
Luca aware of the fact that, yeah, we extended him

(22:09):
with the idea of somehow getting to you, and that's
where you know, we enter murky waters. But then again, Brian,
what is the penalty for yo tampering? Is that a second?

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Oh no? Did it cost us a second to tamper
to get Luca Dancic? How will we ever survive?

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Are you implying that teams tamper and Adam Silver's NBA? No?

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Oh stop?

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Did you did you see what Seth Seth part Now
wrote on Blue Sky. I want to say three or
four weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (22:49):
He was like like he was quote quoting someone who
has had a problem with tampering, and he was like,
you have no idea, like how much more aggressive it is?

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Like?

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Oh sure?

Speaker 2 (23:03):
He was like what everyone thinks it is. It is
like so much worse. It's so much worse.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Hollinger has I think he's even written at some point.
The free agency is basically like ninety nine percent of
free agency is done before it even begins, yeah, which
is yeah. I remember like a couple of years ago
when the Next got thing and the Sixers got thing
that I got very pissed because it's like, what are
we doing here, Like, either enforce it for everyone, to
enforce it for no one, But you can't just like
selectively enforce it just because whatever, like yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, yes, well so short.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
The Spurs have to make Luca painfully aware that they
regard whether they have a lot of guards right now
or not, they will clear them the fuck out if
he's available in the summer. And they also have to
like make sure he's very aware that Wembey would have
to play with him, which I also assume like for

(23:58):
Wenby two, you have to ass him that he wants
to play with Luca, because I mean, come on, totally,
the amount of lops like the pick and roll action
are we kidding? You could even see inverted picking rolls
with those two.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
It's insane. Also, did you read the Men's Health issue
or the Men's Health article?

Speaker 3 (24:19):
I saw Lucas skinny Now the Mavericks successfully fat chained
him into getting skinny.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
I was thinking about the MAVs throughout that entire particle.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Oh yeah, I mean there is never gonna live it
down like if if he unless he completely busts. They
are just I don't like how many championships would they
have to win? Like I know it, they fell ass
backwards into Cooper Flag, which like helps take some of

(24:49):
this thing out of it, But still like the results,
the process does not justify the results. You got unprecedentedly lucky.
You had a two percent chance or one chance of
winning that lottery. Like all right, if you want to
pin your hopes on a two percent flyer by all means,
but ninety eight percent of the time that blows up
in your face.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
So to wrap up, I think we've covered the Lakers
at length there and also most of the Spurs. Do
we have any additional Spurs thoughts here? Because this was
very future oriented for the Spurs. What do we think
about this year? Because this might actually influence the broader
picture of this dange situation or sorry, the Doncic theoretical

(25:34):
that we just presented. Let's say Dylan Harber just comes
out slamming just It's like a rookifty year candidate is like,
you know, one who looks like a future not just
All Star, but like a future all NBA guy. What then,
like do you just go, oh, if everything, let's just
build around these guys. And then the Daron Fox situation

(25:56):
that's also going to be deemed by how well Dylan
Harper looks.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, I mean that's I think the big question for
the Spurs beyond, like hopefully Wemby is just completely over
the health stuff and we don't need to worry about
that that moving forward because if not, I mean, that's
by far the biggest question, right, But yeah, just how
the three go, how Fox, Castle and Harper mesh with

(26:22):
one another given that none of them are prolific long
range shooters, Like do they have the enough spacing around
those guys and around Wemby. I know, Wemby can stretch
the floor. I mean he hit like three threes a game,
which is just insane for a seven foot three guy.
So maybe it's less of an issue and maybe his
spacing will open up the floor for those guys to

(26:43):
work closer to the basket. But especially given the context
of Fox's upcoming extension, negotiations like which if any I
mean I think any three of any of those three
could be long term keepers. But which one winds up
being or which two wind up being long term keepers?

(27:04):
I think that's the step one in how do we
build a title contender around Wemby? But like, look, having
taking gambles on three young high upside guards, when you
got a seven foot three guy like as talented as
Wenby as, you need someone to get him the ball?

Speaker 2 (27:21):
So why just shrink Wemby?

Speaker 3 (27:24):
Is he is he taller than seven three? Now?

Speaker 2 (27:28):
He's been so when he came in as a rookie
he was seven to four bare foot.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
So I have not been able to get official word
on this, but it's something that I've been tracking about. And
this is something apparently that there's a little thing that's
going on right now where people are actually trying to
figure out, like learn about his height because he's apparently
grown and from what I can gather, seven to five

(27:56):
is like considered the minimum right now, Like there's a
world wearing these in shoes between seven six and seven seven.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
That's wild. He's listed as seventh three. I was going
by his listed hype.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, but like the list, there's always yeah, but that Yeah,
but that's always been been pretty messy because he was
like I think it was seven three point seventy five
bare foot before the draft, so and he came in
at nineteen. Like I'm just saying, like seven three always

(28:31):
seems like the absolute lowest number, which is like, yeah,
it if he's closer to seven six seven seven with shoes. Now,
that also means Bride, he's grown. His wingspan has freaking
grown as well. Yeah, and that means it's no longer
eight feet. It could be eight one eight two, which
is even more frightening. The lob radius, like that's radius.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
I had not watched Court of Gold on Netflix until recently,
m hm, and it just got me that much more
excited to see Victor W. Wemen Yamaa play basketball again.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah. Same, it's no, he's he's I think he's a
good shout though, you know, for him, just to make
sure that that's by far the biggest question that he's
fully healthy. I appreciate he's not going to play in
euro Basket this year. I think that's the right move.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
Yeah, oh yeah, just yes, please, Like it would just
be such a bummer I mean we've seen you know
Yao in the past. We're dealing with it with NBA now,
like these generational big men whose bodies just can't hold up.
I mean Wemby like, if he stays healthy, he like
he has goat within his realistic range of outcomes. And

(29:48):
there are very few, if any other players you can
say that about the NBA. It's Lebron and that's it,
like Luca.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
So that's the player that the Bucks fans are expecting
to choose, someone who's better than Yannest Okay.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, so I I selfishly like for the NBA community,
I just really really hope Wemby stays healthy and we
can see with this there's just never been anyone like him,
and it like, I'm not a Spurs fan, but I'm
going to watch a lot of Spurs games this year

(30:28):
because of him.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
I think they're going to be the number one on
my League Pass rankings.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
For a while.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Like I always tend to you know this, because we've
been doing the pod for so many years, I always
tend to like skew with you know, young players because
we haven't seen them before. I always want to watch
some of the new stuff and like, yeah, I want
to watch a coop of flaggots on. Obviously, Wemby is
the one player who I just kind of got stuck
on who's like, oh, yeah, you know what number one
of my league pasts? Oh wait, a Secon year two

(30:57):
leag past number one, Like it's I there, I'm just yep.
It's gonna be a lead pass team for me for years.
I don't want to miss his career.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Yeah yeah, but without question, there's just never been anyone
like him, not this height and array of skills, like
I mean never, he is a legitimate create a player
in NBA two K, Like this was I want a
seven foot five player who has all the guard skills
go and they're like, okay, we will spit this out

(31:30):
in real life. And his name is Victor woman Yama.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
It's funny you mentioned that because before the two K
franchise had a you know, the official wimpy in the
game and whatnot, Bruce, who was a big gamer. We're
always like created in whatever year that must have been
twenty twenty three or whatever, and he was used like
the reported wingspan, the reported height and whatnot, and like

(31:55):
trying to get the dimensions right and the physics would break,
like literally like his shoes when he would dunk, his
shoes would be like in the floor, not over the floor.
Like it's just the he literally broke a basketball game.
That's that's insane, all.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Right, sir? Which team do you have on the docket
for our thirteen?

Speaker 3 (32:21):
Have you had anyone on to discuss the Pelicans and
whatever is going on with the New Orleans Pelicans.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
As I have not, So I would love to get
into that because I can't wait for a Jordan Poole
Sion Williamson year man great.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
I this is just another team where it's like I
wish you would be more realistic with yourselves. Yeah, and
I I mean, look, I hope Zion Okay, well, we
need to preface this with Zion was accused of some
terrible things this offseason, and if any of that is

(33:00):
I never want to see Zion williamsit on the NBA
court again. If he gets cleared of all of that
or if none of it is true, that we can
talk about him as a basketball player. In that case,
I hope he stays healthy and I hope we can
finally see what he can do over the course of
a full season. But like there is that overhanging all

(33:21):
of the Pelicans moving forward.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
I'm sorry, I'm so glad you brought that up, because
I had actually forgotten about that because this offseason and
like the playoffs had just been completely bonkers. I'm so
glad you brought that up. That has slipped my mind.
That's a very very very good point.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
Well, I think that's by design, right, Like they want
it to be out of sight, out of mind, Like
if the news happened I think like late May, early
June and then yeah, like a lot of other stuff
happened in the NBA and we haven't heard anything about it,
So like they, the Pelicans would prefer that everyone forgets
about it. I just want to, you know, put it

(34:03):
out there that like there is beyond just the overall
uncertainty with his health in general, there was also that.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
So with that said, like I'm gonna I'm not making
any assumptions either way about that case. I'm just evaluating
him purely from a basketball standpoint, right, the Pelicans purely
is from a basketball standpoint. So, like the Pelicans, they
have a lot of interesting talent. Even with the John
Saint Murray, He's gonna miss most of the season recovering

(34:31):
from his injury. But like Trey Murphy, you know, one
of the only good things about last season for them
was that Trey Murphy finally broke out, and like you
can't put that genie back in the bottle like Trey Murphy. No,
I know, our friends schmid Dua and Mason Ginsburg, like
they're of the mindset like you, he should be a

(34:52):
focal point moving forward, whether Shn is healthy or not.
I liked the Herb Jones extension. I fact that was
a good piece of business by them, is you know
that he was. I still think he'll have value on
that contract, Like I don't think it's gonna impact his
trade value either way, Like the Jordan Poole deal, if
you're just looking at it from like we don't care,

(35:14):
like CJ was expiring and he was old, and like
we weren't gonna make use of that cap space anyway
because we have so many other big contracts flipping him
for Jordan Poole has got an extra year on his deal, younger,
higher upside. Sure, I guess my question is just like
it really is just from the draft, Like that trade
on Draft night was so insane that it begs bigger

(35:39):
questions of like what do the Pelicans expect out of
themselves this year? Because the East is you know, you
you put together an ambulatory roster and you're gonna make
the play in tournament? Like there there are enough teams
out there that either are dealing with major injuries or
have zero interest in actually win, like the Wizards, the

(36:03):
Nets like they don't they don't want to win. The
Hornets want to win, they're just bad, like the Celtics
and Pacers are very much rebuilding. So like that's five
teams off the bat. You know, the Sixers will see
if they get anything out of them Bed or Paul
George like they could.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
They're a question mark.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
They're just so like they're at, you know, point being
it should be fairly easy to make the play in
in the West or in the East. The West not
at all. Utah is the only team in the West
that does not want to win this season. So do
the Pelicans think they are better than four other teams

(36:44):
in the West, Phoenix, maybe the Kings because they're just
a total mess. But I'm not saying the Pelicans can't
make the play In or or make the playoffs, but
like they are not a lock to do so, and
trading a fully unprotected first round pick of either Theirs

(37:05):
or the Bucks, just completely failing to capitalize on the
potential Yiannis disasterus situation, whether it's a trade or an injury.
Just for Derek Queen, who yeah, great, Like he fell
further than I thought he would in the draft. But
and you can correct me if I'm wrong. You know,
I'm not a big draft guy. But like he doesn't

(37:26):
seem like he's gonna be a great on court fit
with Zion, right Queen? No, Yeah, like he's slightly undersized
for a true center, not a great defender.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Oh it's worse so not a great shooter.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah, that's so Ricky O'Donnell, who is a guy we've
spoken to at links even though he loves Derek Queen
for because he's He's basically said, like he's one of
the best creation centers in terms of like offense, like
he can score. And the more that I went to
my personal you know, pre draft of value or not
pre well scouting off him, it seems like he does

(38:03):
have like a DeMarcus Cousins esque scoring game where you know,
the ball handling is very creative.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
It's high quality. But Ricky called him a No. D No.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Three center, which in today's league is just like a
death penalty in many y. I like, if this shot
comes around, I could see a scenario wherein he and
Zion would be fun and interesting and perhaps even capable.
But if you have to play around the fact that
Sion and Derek Queen, neither of them could space the floor,

(38:37):
Like you, why do you do that? Yeah, you would
need Trey Murphy and another Trey Murphy. Basically you'd probably
need treating three Trey Murphy's. You need so much ridiculous shooting,
and you know, high quality shooting, not just volume shooting,
but efficiency shooting.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
Where do you get that? Jordan Poole, the high volume
was the.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
Right Jeremiah Fears, I mean, yeah, it's and.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Fear herself, this is like a developing shooter, like I do.
I think he's.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
A better shooter shooter than what his college percentages indicate,
because he was taking like a lot of deep threes
off the dribble and whatnot in the NBA.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
I think he's gonna calm himself down a little bit.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
But like Jordan Hawkins, remember when he was drafted as oh, yeah,
this is like a guy. He's gonna be, you know,
a high quality three point shooter next to everyone else.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
He's going to space the four for Sion. We expect
everything out of him. He's been mad over the first
ten years.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
I'm pretty sure that schmid Dua, who you referenced before,
has been very very down on Hawkins too. And if
there's someone who knows the Pels, it certainly Smidt.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Yeah. I mean, like overall to your point about spacing
Pelicans last year twenty fourth and three point percentage twenty
fifth and three point attempts per game twenty seventh and
made threes. They have now lost Brandon Ingram, who was
their most accurate three point shooter thirty seven point four percent,
and CJ. McCollum, who was their second highest volume three
point shooter and he was a thirty seven point three percent.

(40:10):
So they saw Trey Murphy. But like Herb Jones last
year thirty point six percent from deep on three point
six at times per game, de Jon Say Murray twenty
nine point nine percent from deep on five point six
at temes per game. So where like Missy is not
a three point shooter at all.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yet Yeah, like.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
The spacing just see and I mean Zion is not
He takes them but barely and is not a good
three point shooter. So like, yes, the floor spacing. In general,
it's gonna be Trey Murphy and who and.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
We'll come down host Alvarado.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
I mean pool like two pools credit. He took nine
point one attemps per game last year, shot it career
high thirty seven point eight percent from three, and that
was on a crappy Wizard's team where he was the
number one option. So like he's going to help a lot.
It's going to be him and Trey Murphy. But you
can't only have two voy spacers, correct, And I don't
I mean Sadik Bay We you know, missed all of

(41:17):
last week with the ACL. Yeah, but like he he
could be an option. I actually liked the pickup getting
him in that McCollum deal. I thought was actually pretty smart. Hey,
I don't know, I I worry about the on court
fit offensively, and then just Joe Dumar is seeming to

(41:37):
have an inflated expectation for this roster in general is
a much bigger, concerned big picture. But like I I'm
not even sure this team makes sense on the court
as currently constructed.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
You and I have been over this so many times before.
Why do teams go back to the well of you know,
poor team constructors like Joe Dumar does not have a
good rep as someone like even though he built the
championship team in four, everything he did after that was
questionable and like his long term vision was always what's

(42:14):
what's a kind word for barely incomposite or barely competent.
I mean that's it's we're there, right, It's just so egregious.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
I just don't understand why.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
And now they're probably thinking, oh, well we let Joe
to go now, we'll say face yeah, but he could
also undermind you for the next two or three years
before you're ready, right.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Well, like, yeah, you build a championship pross two thousand
and four, that was how many cbas ago? Like four?
Now at this point, I mean, things have completely changed
in the last twenty years, Like the right team building
strategies have changed, and even no innovative gms have gotten
left behind. So you're just starting from a position of

(42:58):
like this guy I was working for the NBA previously,
it was not like deep in the weeds of this stuff.
You have a very complicated situation with Zion already, Like
you should be going for the best of the best,
not a retread who wasn't in this position recently and
like has no experience actually working with this CBA in particular.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Right right, it's it's definitely uphill all year.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
It's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
I mean, look, you have the off court issues, you
have the obvious on court issues is I just don't.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Know what the long.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Term vision, the short term vision is because like hell,
even if Joe Dumars is like okay, let me just
start pivoting to the long term. You just gave up
a selection for next year where you might be able
to pick, you honestly, a and franchise player. Like there
are there are three players at the top of the

(43:58):
draft next year who could We're not saying will be
because as we know, the draft is you remember Mark
kill fussaults, Well that situation. My apologies, I'm sorry I
just triggered something there, but like you know, you always
have to go off of expectations, and there are three
players in next year's draft who could become you know

(44:19):
that dude or going that for a guy who's an
if you fit next to Sion, it's I I I
have a fear that the that Pelicans fans are going
to be entering the next couple of years with this mindset. Oh,
the now isn't working, the future isn't working, and like
worse than worst of all, the process isn't working. Right, Like,

(44:42):
if I'm a Pelicans fans right now, I'm looking at
the Wizzards and I'm jealous.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
I'm jealous.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Well, like going to the on court fit again, like
de Jonte again will miss presumably most of all the
season with recovering from this injury, You're going to lean
heavily into points Ion. You have Fears off the bench,
You have Alvarado off the bench. If Zion gets hurt,
are you leaning on Jordan Poole as your primary playmaker?

(45:12):
Are you laning on a nineteen year old rookie and
Jeremiah Fears like they are kind of paper thin at
playmaking until Dejonte returns, unless you get the miracle Zion
stays healthy the whole season year. Yeah, and that's again
really terrifying a place to be when you just gave

(45:33):
up your unprotected first round pick.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
It is the Houston Rockets, Brian.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
Yes, far, far fewer questions about them than I have.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Still some still some.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Loved how Fred van Leet, you know, took a smaller deal.
I love that that's far more like the current for him.
Like he's twenty five billion this year, twenty five million
next year, but that's a player option so he can
opt out.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
But just this year, I think a twenty five million
price tags just so much better for him, considering his age,
his production, and let's be honest, his lack of shooting efficiency,
which has been a thing for the vast majority of
his career.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Now you get Katy in there, KD is going to
be like the one primary tier one score now, which
they needed. They needed that one guy to sit at
the top of the totem bowl like they tried with
Jalen Green, they tried with Shinkun, they tried a little
bit with Van Vleet. No one really had that scoring ability.

(46:38):
Now they do, and now I think that's going to
just streamline this entire roster. One of the questions I
do have, though, a little Rand and Shinggoon fit given
that shin Gun is not a floor spacer or at
least a consistent one.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Mm. I mean, I'm I feel like they've just built
their team around that archetype, even with the back I mean,
like Stephen Adams and Clint Capella are also not floor spacers,
so they've just decided that were fine with that from
that position regardless, Like obviously Schangun is a much better

(47:17):
playmaker than those other two. But I think between Van
Vliet Durant and then whether it's Reed Shepherd or Jabari
Smith Junior, even Dorian Finney Smith, like they've got enough
shooters that I'm not especially worried. It's really when I mean,
I'm in Thompson his development shooting wise, because like, look,

(47:40):
he had an incredible season last year, Like the sky
is the limit for that kid. I'm super super super
high on him. But the one weakness he has right
now is three point shooting was not high volume. Only
shot twenty seven five percent last year, and that was
significantly better than what he did as a rookie eight
of fifty eight from deep. So it does spacing become

(48:04):
a concern with him and Shanguna on the floor, I
think is a fair consideration, especially for the playoffs, because
like there's no good, Like you need him. He's your
best defender now by far, and you don't have unless
you're gonna play like small ball five with Jabari Smith Junior.
Like all of your bigs can't shoot. So I think
it's a fair concern to raise. But you know, Kevin

(48:28):
Durant helps, certainly helps.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
He sort of changes the calculus a little bit.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Right, right, right, yeah, But like I mean it's to
your point, like if Amen is on the perimeter, can
you shade away from him and send extra help at
Kadi or at I mean, you're probably not doubling Fred
van Vleet or Jabari Smith, but like that could lead
to KD getting more defensive attention and that you live
with it. So like I guess, really that's the strategy,

(48:56):
and it's really how do the Rockets counter that? It
would by making Amen a cutter?

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah. Amen, to me is.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Like if he takes that step and becomes that clear
number two guy, not as a score, Like you can
be a number two guy without being you know, twenty
five thirty point score. You can be that by being
a table setter, by being a devastating defender, by being
a lead rebounder, like he has so many of those
avenues to play on.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
If he hits that.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
The ripple effects, you know, it's just going to be
so huge because if he's your secondary creator, Oh okay,
Shankun's going to be like your tertiary creator in the post,
which means he's going to be able to be far
more selective as well. Then you can say, oh, does
that actually negate the floor spacing inconsistencies probably a pit. Yeah,

(49:50):
Like if you suddenly have a shan Gun who's being
far more selective with his opportunities, we could see him
coming in with lower turnovers that will higher at rim efficiency.
Like it's I'm very excited just to see how this
team just shapes out. Like, sorry, Easton is also still
there as someone who's just gonna, you know, put a
wrench into everything the opponents are doing.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
You can still play him with Ahmen.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Like those two together on the floor off the bench
for long stretches last season were ridiculous. You can still
have that going for you now you can just sort
of combine it with Kevin Freakin durand.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
The big question to me though, is how long do
the vibes hold up? Because it feels like wherever Katie goes.
I'm not and I'm not gonna sit here and say
it's on KD because I don't think so. I also
think situation matters, but I feel as though it's become
like a legitimate thing to at least track. He doesn't

(50:49):
always seem like a happy camper.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
It's kind of my yeah, yeah, I mean, I think
that's the concern long term, although one would think that,
you know, it seemed like he kind of signed off
on the deal to Houston, and you know, I think
I get that perception, especially given her the last seven

(51:11):
eight years have gone off his career, but I would
also look at it from his perspective, especially after joining
the Nets, whereas like he missed his whole first season,
then it's the COVID season and they were still good.
Then they get James Harden. Then you get the Kyrie
vaccine stuff, Then you have the Kyrie anti semmensism stuff.
Then you get James Harden dogging it and wanting out,

(51:31):
like there was just so much drama in Brooklyn the
whole time, and Kadi, if there's one thing he's been
consistent about throughout his career, it's just like I just
want to hoop. I don't want to deal with any
of this extra crap. And then he goes to Phoenix
and then you get Bradley Beal and like that goes
south very quickly, and like there was just a lot
of drama there, and you know, Beale, I think it

(51:54):
was just very frustrating to everyone there that he was
such a bad fit. And it was so obvious right away,
Like he's going to this Houston team now where he
is going to be he is the best player on
this team. But he's got a bunch of talent around him.
He's got a guy like Aman who I think he's
going to absolutely love, just a straight up dog. He's

(52:17):
you know, he's got like an actual supporting cast for
the first time since Golden State. Really, like the Nets
were also just very top heavy because they had three
guys on Max Eel's, Like the Rockets are a lot
more spaced out. They've got plenty of good young talent.
Like he knows that he is not their long term

(52:39):
answer here. He is effectively you know, I'm guessing he'll
sign an extension. So I don't want to say he's
like a one year rental, but he has a short
term solution here, he's not part.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Of the future short term solution, right.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
Yeah, like he he fills their biggest need. Like, I
think it actually is a marriage of convenience that will
work out well for both sides. And like, I don't
think you know, the Rockets trading Jalen Green whatever, trading
Dylan Brooks like he was good for them, but no
big deal. You got im and Thompson and frankly, trading
Jalen Green is going to open up minutes to read Shepherd.

(53:13):
So that could also be I don't want to say
addition by subtraction, but kind of so like the number
time pick might be the biggest loss from that, and
you'd make that trade for Kevin Durant every time. So
I think it was a super smart trade for them.
I'm very very bullish on them moving forward. I think
they are. I think it's them in Denver are the

(53:35):
two Like Legit threats to Okay, see this year, Golden
State can get there if they're healthy. The Clippers can
get there if they're healthy. But when you're building around that,
many old guys talk to me in mid April, like,
let me see you get through the regular season before
I actually buy you as a real contender, like these
two teams built very differently. Like Houston, I think is

(53:56):
just going to be hillacious defensively.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
With the benefit of having its twenty five point scorer who.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Can right, I mean read Shepherd is like a total
X factor here because he barely played as a rookie.
We have no idea what you.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Just send up the bad signal for Dan for Valley.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Okay, oh yeah, he's a real Shepherd guy big time.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
I don't think there's a single episode where he's not
like Reachiper, this Rechipper that we can be talking about
an Eastern conference scene.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
I'm not quite there because he's just a mystery box.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
We don't know what he is.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
But I would imagine like they didn't pick him number
three for no reason like I think, hell, I don't
know what the floor is or what the ceiling is.
But would not shock me if he is overall better
for them than Jalen Green in the long run. But
I mean, really, my fascination with his team is Im
and Thompson like I especially if he develops as a shooter. No,

(54:52):
I know you you have Cam Whitmore as your MIP pick.
I don't think Amen will win MIP but as he
already took the leap last year, but I think he's.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Taken that apparently doesn't matter anymore with this award, right.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Well, I think he's taking another leap this year. And
like people who are not paying attention to Aman Thompson already,
I think he was still like mostly a niche, like
hardcore NBA fans know him. Casual NBA fans do not.
There are some hardcore like he's he's gonna be a
casual NBA fan name by the end of the season.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
I mean, sure, he was an lead defender already. He
was a number four overall pick. Yeah, give him a
m I P sure.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Though that is true. That fished my.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Critsia thirteen year, but still like fourteen sure or fourth
overall pick.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (55:50):
All right, so we got one more team to go.
I have a team if you don't have any, But like,
is there a specific team that you want to talk
about here?

Speaker 3 (55:58):
No fire Away Kings? Oh boy?

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Right, I just want to know what the hell it's like,
because remember we heard all the murmurs about Bonus want
to sit down with the team this summer.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yep, have we ever gotten a real update on that.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
Uh, we have not from what I've seen, So, like,
what did they.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Have the conversation? He's like super down to play, Like
what is up? You hot?

Speaker 3 (56:25):
So why Dennis Shrudters solved everything?

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Yes he does, right, he doesn't make enemies anywhere.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Right, Yeah? Yeah, we had to talk about Bulls the
East last time, as we're doing Bulls West this time.
I see you.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Yeah, I mean, look, hey, we at least you started
the podcast last time.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
That's like I at least wait until the end so
people could tune out.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
Yeah afterwards, Yeah, I mean like you can talk me
into the Kings having a legit like eight man rotation
that is actually pretty interesting with Levine's bonus de Rosan Monk, Shrewder,
Keegan Murray, Devin Carter, Kean Ellis, who is actually very good.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah he is.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
I'm surprised they did not take advantage of his contract status,
but that the Kings are what they are. But yeah,
like the overall long term plan, I have no idea.
I mean, Zach Colvine is not turning down a forty
nine million dollar player option next year, so yes, I
do not want to hear that he is a potentially
expiring contract. No, unless unless it's like a Fred van

(57:33):
Vliet thing where he signs, you know, ops out to
resign for like three for one hundred or something like that.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
But well, he is extension eligible, you could perhaps convince
him to turn on down the player option to give him,
you know, more security long term.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Yeah, sure, either way, he's right. I don't think he's
a major flight risk next offseason. If anything, he'll just
pick up the player option, deal with it. In twenty seven.
I mean, damar is non guaranteed or yeah, how much
is fully guaranteed and partially? Right in twenty six seven?

(58:09):
Let's see ten million?

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yep? Or wait it is it ten million?

Speaker 3 (58:16):
Ten million? If oh, fully guaranteed if the Kings make
the twenty twenty six NBA Finals and he plays at
least sixty regular season games, so there.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
We go, then obviously fully guaranteed.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Right, could could very well be. But yeah, I mean
like they're not going to have financial flexibility. They're not
free agent destination either way. I mean, Tika Murray's eligible
for an extension, so they're about to get even more
expensive next offseason. Yeah, it's hard to see the path forward,
and it is I mean, that's been the case with

(58:53):
the Kings forever.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
But they had that one blip, Yeah, one freaking blip,
and you're kind of like, oh, they found their identity.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
Now.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
I remember you and I were pretty high on them.
We thought they were fun.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
They leaned into offense, we thought that was the right approach,
and then they started like slowing down their offense, and
every advantage they had started becoming a disadvantage and you're
just like, what is actually going on? And there was
a coaching change, and it just it's the good vibes

(59:28):
are like almost entirely gone.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Yeah, oh for sure. I mean can we Is it
mean to revisit the Sabonus and Haliburton trade? No?

Speaker 1 (59:42):
I mean obviously, you like it's better to revisit trades
after years instead of like right away. So yeah, no,
I think that's fair.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
Remember when a lot of people were trying to spin
it as a win win.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Us, sir, I don't. I were.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
I was higher on the return there, but you fully
acknowledged that there was a win win element in place.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
I do remember this, sure, and I'll stand by that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
But yeah, I mean the Pacers got the better end
of that deal, like even with Hollie's Achilles, right, yeah,
I mean it was they were in a tough situation
because they thought that Fox and Halle I guess they
thought that they weren't compatible.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Althoy're like in retrospect, multiple ballhanders, what the hell? What
is the sorcery? That's why they didn't pick Lucas, right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
I know, I know, I know, Oh my god. Yeah,
And like in retrospect, now, we've seen teams get within
one game of winning a championship when you're starting multiple
ball handlers. So yeah, I mean it just speaks to
a like fundamental lack of vision or an understanding of

(01:00:57):
how today's NBA is being played. Like Sabonis is a
great player. I do not want to take anything away
from him. He's an all Star caliber player. He uplifts
his teammates, He's an eighty two game player. Like, I
do not think you were going to win a championship
with him is given his defensive deficiencies. Is hard to
build it around a big man like that unless you

(01:01:19):
have a very specific archetype around him, Like if you
put him next to Wemby, sure, sure, yeah, but there
are you know, there's only one Webby, Like a Miles
Turner and Anthony Davis someone like that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Maybe, well he played with Myles Turner for a few years.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Yeah, it's true, fair point, all right, then just Anthony
Davis's Anthony Davis and went healthy and Victor Webbin yaba.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
But Davies I would argue against because like, where did
his jumper go?

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
True? Yeah, well he left it in Disney World.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
He really did.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
That's true. Tu bonus would play they have to play
the five because Anthony Davis wants to play the fourth's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
This is true too.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
But it's interesting because you know, we're just talking about
Derek Queen, you know, no d no three center that
sort of applayable, which is a bonus as well, and
he's on a major deal. He's just so elite in
other areas, like he's literally the league's best rebounder, Like
he's been the best rebound in the league of three

(01:02:22):
straight years.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
He's one of the best playmakers regardless of position in
the NBA as well. I know he didn't average it
as many assists, but again, assists. This is such a weird,
you know stat because it's not just that playmaking. It's
more than just raw assists. And plus the team got
you know, a bit of a makeover, so his raw

(01:02:44):
numbers declined it a little bit, but he's still one
of the best playmakers out there, he said. Lead to
finishing as well, Like he's a great, great, you know
play finisher two when he gets the ball, especially deep
in the post and whatnot.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
But you just can't get around the fact that building
around No.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
D No.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Three centers nowadays is a major challenge. Like you you
have to build the team so specifically. Like again, we've
been talking about this for years with Sion too. Sion
is one of the weirdest players to build around from
the guard position. It was Trey Young because he never
really was a strong catch and shoot guy. Everything had

(01:03:22):
to go through the dripple first. Like some players are
just wonky to build around as the core piece.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Is one of them.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Yeah, and like we're saying that if Sabonis was on
a mid level exception deal, oh yeah, no issue, they
would fine. It would be you know, you can have
enough room to have another big man who would compliments
him better. But it's Levigne as well, Like if Lavin
was earning half as much as he is, totally different story.

(01:03:55):
But because these two guys are on these the higher
than twenty five percent. Levine's around thirty right now and
Sabona is twenty seven percent. Like, because these guys are
on near max contracts, that's where you run into issues.
Like DeMar de Rosen at twenty five million less of

(01:04:16):
a problem. But if DeMar Derozen was earning thirty five
million or forty million, then like you'd be saying the
exact same thing about him. And you know, I saw
Kyrie recently said, like NBA's salary player salaries shouldn't be
made public, which like I understand to some extent because
it does skew the perception of the player, right, Like

(01:04:41):
six Ers fans went through this with Tobias Harris for
an entire half decade, where if that guy was making
half as much as he was, one of Hamstrong, the
team to the same extent wouldn't have cared that he was,
you know, good for seventeen and six no matter the circumstance,
Everyone's out still getting seventeen s. Yes, these guys, like

(01:05:03):
it's the size of their contracts is what really complicates
building around them, because like I know, you are a
big Zach Lavine guy saying like he was, you know,
undervalued as a player, which I agree, but the contract
is what is killer, Like if it's if Leavine. If

(01:05:25):
Levine turns down the player option and does like three
for ninety next offseason, all of a sudden, he's gonna
be a probably swing back to the positive side of
the ledger, but right now he's negative strictly because of
his contract and situation.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
And situation I always argue this, like when when that
trade went down, because he was involved obviously in the
Tier and Fox trade. What I always wanted and I
think I remember saying this to you as well. I
wanted Levine on the Kings, uh, dating back to like
a year and a half, maybe even two years ago,

(01:06:03):
because my point was he's never been surrounded by elite
playmakers out of Lonzo ball for what how many games,
thirty five games or something along those lines, which is
just the sample size was so small. I wanted to
be next to Fox, next to the bonus, so he
could be like there that you know, the one probably
the main scorer, but like the tertiary playmaker, so he

(01:06:24):
wouldn't have to do everything like he would be playing
off ball whatnot. Him being involved in the Fox trade
was just like, oh, that's that wasn't the goal, Like, sure,
you ended up with Syclobenians in Sacramento, put not to
play alongside Fox, which would have been the idea.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
So I'm just.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
I would like to see Levine in a system where
he plays alongside an elite playmaker like Luca, like Jo Kich,
that time of player, right, who just knows, Oh yeah,
you're best off the catch, Like, let's let's give you that.
Because I will say this about Levine, I've been very
surprised at how good he's been at maintaining his efficiency

(01:07:06):
while simultaneously being miscast as a number one option.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Totally. Yeah, yeah, I mean, like again, I have nothing
against him as a player. I have nothing against the
Bonus as a player. It's just the size of their
contracts make it really hard to build around one of them,
much less both agree, and that raises some launderer questions
for the Kings moving forward.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
Yeah, Ryan Sipporik, thank you so much for joining yet
another episode. Here, we've completed our East West Big Questions ponderings.
Apparently we've also turned Luka Danchiz into a San Antonio spur.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
I like that, but I see that. I think that's fits.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
That's uh, you know, we're doing the Lord's work here.
Because I hesitate to say this because I're write for
a Lakers blog, But it would be very funny to
see the meltdown coming from Lakers fans if after the
victory laughs they've taken and the correct victory lapse they're taken. Luka,
donca trade if they have to end up swallowing like

(01:08:07):
you know, if it ends up being Anthony Davis for
Deer and Fox and Stefan Castle all of a sudden,
the victory laps still still good, it's not quite as good.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Get ready to learn Fox guys.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
Yeah that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Or everyone listening and thank you for

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Doing so, and until we talk again, stay safe, Have
a good one everyone,