The Dance of Love: Leadership and Followship in Relationships with Linda Sutton | S7E56 - The No Fruit Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What can a dance like tango teach us about leadership, love,
and letting go? Today we sit down with Leanda Sutton
to explore how every step in a relationship tells a
story and how learning to lead with grace might be
the key to deeper connections. Let's go about loving movement

(00:29):
of God in life, experience to.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Be show God, God, Love God.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Transford, thank you so much Lenda for coming on today
with the No Fruit Podcast. We're so excited to have you.
My first question for you is, because you've been such
an made such a powerful connection between tango and relationships,

(01:05):
what is it about this dance, the tango that reflects
the deeper truth about how we lead, follow and how
we can stay connected in love?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Oh wow? She starts out with the power questions. I
was still in the praise moment. Yeah, into music. But
that's okay because I would us a person. So let
me start by first saying that the tango is one
that kind of consumed my life or kind of took
over my life. But it wasn't the first dance that
I taught and performed and studied. I was actually a

(01:41):
professor of African dances and was studying the African roots
of tango throughout the world, and I started studying and
doing research on the African roots of Gongo. And when I'm,
you know, doing research and doing work with a dance,
I not only do kind of the historical significance, but
I actually do the I kN esthetic, the movement, the
actual learning of the dance. And Tango was one of

(02:04):
those first dances that really required me to bring all
of me to the dance, like there was no faking it,
there was no pretending, there was no pattern that I
could lean on, like I really had to bring all
of myself to the dance and to my partner in

(02:25):
order for the dance to work. If I held back anything,
if I wasn't really completely present with my partner, then
I found that the dance would just be a struggle
or it just wouldn't work at all. So that was
the beginning of me doing the deep dive on how
tango reflects relationships because I realized it was a direct

(02:49):
reflection of the relationship I was having with my partner
in the moment. Tango is specific because number one, it
doesn't have a set pattern. It really is pure leading
follow It's pure relationship and tangle is one of those
rare dances that moves in a progressive fashion. So not
only it's not like you're like salsur where you're in

(03:10):
your own kind of bubble or area, you not only
have to be in step with your partner, but you
have to be in step with every other couple on
the floor. And it really becomes a metaphor for not
only being in connection with your partnership, your own intimate partnership,
but how your partnership impacts the world around you.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
And after that I was looked, yeah, yeah, and that's remarkable,
like again not only connecting in the dance, but also
connecting in the relationship. Absolutely yeah, So this is like
really good in reference to being able how do we
connect in our relationships and then how did that reflect
again in dance and how do we grow those things?

Speaker 2 (03:56):
This exact same process that it takes for two dancers
to get in step and connect and surrender and have
trust in one another are the same exact steps that
you have to use off the dance floor. I literally,
so just to be clear, even though we talk about
it metaphorically, I am a dance instructor. I work with
couples and know all their business when they come to

(04:19):
my class, not because they tell me, but because I
can see it in their dance within three songs. And
so the same process that I walk them through to
get in step in synergy and connected and trust and
surrender and cooperate in their dance, same exact process off
the dance floor.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Well, I mean you're saying those buzzwords trust, surrender and
a lot of those words that we have difficulty with.
But I can see how some can maybe understand it
a little bit more on the dance floor and be
more trustworthy on the dance floor, be more giving on
the dance floor. So how does that play in relationships?
Like how do we become more trustworthy and more giving

(05:01):
and submissive if you will, in our relationships just as
we would on.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
The dance floor. And that's beautiful because I think what
is important for people to understand is even though there
are buzzwords and things that we use kind of talking points,
there are actually experiences on the floor. So trust is
not a talking point in my class, and the leaders
understand that quickly. It's like one of their biggest Aha

(05:27):
moments is that my partner trusting me and my leadership
is not just a metaphor. It's something I can feel
in her body. It's something that I can feel in
the level of tension, the level of resistance, the level
of ease that she feels in her balance, all of
these kinds of things. And so it's an experience that
you are seeking and so off the dance floor. In relationships,

(05:50):
when you understand that, even though you're thinking in your
head that your relationship is literally have happening in your bodies,
your bodies are talking, then you can start to have
an awareness of what's going on in your relationship beside, behind,
besides or behind the words you speak.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good. And I think you know.
I've watched dance on television and it's it's it's such
a beautiful thing when the two are becoming one and
move so fluidly across the dance floor. You can see it,
you can feel it just watching it. So I can

(06:28):
only imagine when the two dancers are in that situation
what that feels like. And like you said, it's an experience,
and so talk to a little bit about that experience
and what it feels like.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Well, Number one is the reason why I'm sitting I'm
sitting here on this couch right now, as I say,
I'm sitting in the couch of therapy right now. No,
the first time I had that true experience is the
reason that I'm literally here now. I had an experience
with a dancer abroad, and it was something that the

(07:02):
young ladies they were talking about this one particular dancer
had no idea who they were. But I was like,
I was like, okay, ladies talk about the gentleman's here,
and I just this dancer actually happened to ask me
to dance. And it was a very crowded floor, and
all of a sudden, it felt like we were the

(07:23):
only two people in the room. And I was not
a new dancer, so I was just kind of like WHOA,
And I had that first experience where I felt like
we merged and it was like we were one person.
I knew his thoughts, I knew what he was going
to do. The room dissolved, and so when I came
out of that experience, I realized I was like, oh

(07:45):
my god, when they say man and woman become one
in marriage, when they say entangled to become one, it
is not a metaphor. It is an energetic, spiritual reality.
And when I had that epiphany, that was I wanted
to learn how do you get there? And if I
could ever teach other people to replicate that one and

(08:07):
that is that is why we do it. So for
people you know who are wondering, you know about surrender
and submission and trust, when you come out of your
head and the analogies and really try to pay attention
to the experience of your partner, you'll tap into that wisdom.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's good. I think what you're
describing that experience, I think we all kind of want that.
And if you have that as your focus, then you're
willing to lead for those that don't want to lead,
because you know, some people are like I don't want
to be a leader. I don't want you know, and
then you have those hey, I don't want to surrender.
So I think those are the things that if you

(08:44):
remove some of that, like you say, get out of
your head somewhat and you think about the beauty of
it all and what that oneness looks like and will
feel like, means so so much more, and then you'll
be able to remove that doubt. So what happens when
someone does have that doubt? Like you're an instructor and
I'm sure everyone doesn't come in with, you know, all

(09:05):
of the bells and whistles and the fluidity that's needed
to get through a wonderful dance like tango. How do
how do you deal with that? Like what happens when
someone is feeling that they can't do this?

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Oh, the resistance I was I'm the day one on that. Yeah,
the dragon bb kicking, screaming, and especially following my first
response to it as a dancer when I was a
new dancer was like, ain't no man gonna tell me right?
You know, man, gon be the boss of me. So
it literally took me a year and a half to

(09:39):
work through that resistance and understanding what it means to
be a follower, what it means to be a leader,
and the trust that comes. And it's not like it's
sometimes in therapy and it's and it's different for everyone,
but we think of a trust as a past thing, right,
and trust is really an actual kind of dynamic that

(10:00):
occurs just because of the position that you're putting yourself
in in the moment. Walking backwards in heel heels is
not a common thing for a woman, right, like head
it up. So when a woman is concerned and looking
for trust and reassurances and signs that she can trust
her leader, that's not something from the past. That's literally
and in the moment what you're asking of her and

(10:23):
her response to that request. So when a person is
concerned and don't think that they can when they come
into our session, I'm like, you can, and it's a process,
and it's okay that you don't have trust. It's okay
that you're resistant to his lead is okay because the
process of the dance is like the process of a relationship.

(10:48):
You don't trust that person immediately when you first meet
them on the street. You go through this process of
getting to know them and increasing levels of trust, and
it's the same on the dance floor. And so once
people are okay with the process, it unfolds for them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah, And I think that's the key is just kind
of knowing yourself a little bit. If Maurice was here,
he would say, you know, checking the man in the mirror,
like understanding yourself, and then you can show up as
yourself authentically and then be able to move through the process,
because it is a process, as you stayed, absolutely, So

(11:25):
tell us a little bit about like that part of
individuals kind of knowing who they are. Like again, they
come and thinking one thing and you're somehow able to
pull out more from them. So how are you able
to do that and what's that process like?

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Well, the first part is we have the Tu Tu Tango,
which is the show but our tagline for the television
show it not only takes two to tango, it takes
you to tango, yes, And the premise of that is
is that you have to bring you, the whole you
and your whole self to the dance to be in
partnership with another. But the caveat is when you bring
all of you to the dance, all of you is

(12:02):
there operating in the dance. So something that I tell leaders,
especially you know, because of the power dynamic that should
come that always rears its head in the dance is
that everything you as a leader, everything you do, and
everything you are, has an impact on your partner and

(12:23):
it has an impact on the world around you. The
other couples on the floor. You can't get beyond that.
So you have to be very mindful in your leadership,
that what you see in your partner and what you
see in the world around you is a reflection of
what you're doing. Because the leader is responsible for initiation,

(12:45):
so there's responsibilities that come with that. And so if
your power is initiating the dance and initiating the couple,
then there's responsibilities that come in with that. So you're
always having to look to self as you as in
the world is a mirror of your leadership. Yeah, you
can't pass the buck. If you're the leader, you can't

(13:05):
pass it. Have the lead, yes, exactly, and so you're
responsible for your leadership. So this is an area where
the gentlemen, for example, that are leading, are constantly like, wow,
I never had to look at myself in that way.
That what I'm seeing in my children, what I'm seeing
in my partner, what I'm seeing and my coworkers and
my teams is in large part how I'm showing up

(13:27):
and how I'm leading, whether directly or indirectly, and so
it becomes a real powerful awakening and awareness for them.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
That's good. That's good. I think I've heard you also
talk metaphorically in reference to the dance and relationships as
one driving down the road.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yea, and.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
How you have to pay attention to You just said
something like that leader cannot pass the buck. Well, if
I'm the one behind the wheel, I can't pass the buck.
No one else can take the wheel but me, you know.
So when you said that, I was like, I get it,
you know, so tell us a little bit about that part, Like, hey,
when you're driving down the road, like, you have to
be aware of everyone else. I think one of my

(14:08):
first lessons when I was little, my dad said to me, like,
it's not about you in control, it's about being concerned
about everyone else on the road because you have to
know if they don't make a turn, signal that they're
going to turn. So you have to be cautious of
other people as well, and that helps you to make
your own decisions on what to do and how to
move and how to lead in that regard.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
And so interesting that you say it's absolutely like that.
And the first thing I thought it was like, Jesus
take the lead. Yes, So leadership and that's one of
the we go through the definitions of what the words mean,
and to lead we think of it as a control thing,
but actually to lead, and you see it in the
dance is to guide a longer path. So that's literally

(14:53):
what to lead means. Now, leadership we tend to think
of it in a hierarchical fashion, like a ball us
and a manager, but no, a boss is a manager
of people. We hope that they have leadership skills, we
hope that they are a leader, but by nature of position,
it does not make them a leader. Just like in
the car, even though you're the one behind the wheel,

(15:15):
you're responsible for the care and safety and the well
being of your passengers. Yes, and so if your passenger
is you know, gripping onto their seat for dear life,
then just because you're like, but I'm the one that's driving,
does not mean that it's going to be a good
experience for your partner and that they're going to be

(15:37):
desire to travel with you more and relax and just
close their eyes and sleep during the trip. And not
that the woman sleeps, but you know, you understand the
kind of the ease. I also exactly because you trust
your driver, like you're not having to keep one out
there is we go get there, and one bees do

(15:57):
is we go we go end up in Idaho? Like
you don't have those questions because your partner and through
your experience, has reassured you, I can relax. He's going
to get us there safely, and he's going to get
us to our destination and it's going to be a
pleasurable experience. The same thing in the dance. There's ways
that a gentleman signals that. But not only that, you

(16:18):
have to be aware and conscious of the other people
as the both, like I said, as the dancer and
as the driver, so that everybody gets there safe, so
that everybody can have a pleasant experience getting to and from.
It's not just what I'm going to get there, but
the other car. They're going to be scared and I'm
going to crash into them because I'm driving recklessly because

(16:41):
of how I want to keep drive. It's the same thing.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, yeah, And it's it's interesting, you know, I think again,
as leaders, we kind of think just about ourselves and
how we're going to be and how we're going to
show up as leaders. And that's that's a part of it.
Like you said, we have to dig deep into ourselves
and understand ourselves, but we also have to, as you said,
understand those that are our passengers. Who's in the car

(17:05):
with us and make them comfortable and maybe do things
differently so that they are comfortable. So again, leading that dance,
they may not be able to lead it the same
way each time with every partner because it's the same dance,
but they have to make that individual feel comfortable as
well as the others on the road or those others
that are on the dance floor. So it's multi leveled

(17:28):
on what that leader has to do on taking care
of themselves, taking care of those that are closest to them,
and then also taking care of those, as you said,
family members or those that are on the road that
are further away from them. So there's so much that
goes on during this dance, during this process, and kudos
to those who have to be leaders and do all

(17:50):
of that. And I think you know we do it
in so many ways and sometimes without thinking about it,
but to be able to take that time which you do,
to say, pause for a moment and think about what
we're doing and then the beauty of it all. So
I thank you so much for how you're doing all
of that tell us a little bit how people who

(18:10):
are listening to us today can get a hold of
you and learn more about Two to Tango and learn
more about Linda Sutton.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Absolutely well. They can find me all on all of
the social media platforms, YouTube and Facebook. Is the our
most active in Instagram. Also, I have two books out now,
so that's exciting. So you can always find us in Amazon.
And it Takes Two to Tango is the first book,
and so you think you can't dance as the second
that just came out this month a few days ago. Congratulations,

(18:38):
We're excited so they can come and dance with me,
follow me literally and figurative and looking forward to helping
you transform all of your relationships.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Wonderful, wonderful. All of that information that Linda just shared
will be in the show notes. Linda, Before I let
you go, I have one other question that I've been
dying to ask you please? Did you talk so much
about dancing and music? If you could sing a duet
with anyone in the world, living or deceased, who would

(19:08):
you sing that duet with?

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Duet?

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Because I listened to so much music, I don't usually
think of singing. I could sing a duet. Well, I
want them to be living. That's a tough one. That's
a very very tough one. Who would I want to
sing a do it with?

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Hm?

Speaker 2 (19:31):
I shall eat up all the time.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Living or deceased, Living or deceased? Yes, who would you
sing a duet with?

Speaker 2 (19:41):
It would be better if you asked me if I
had a convers I wouldn't have a conversation. But if
I wanted to sing a duet, well, go.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Ahead, conversation. Who would you have a conversation with living
or deceased?

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Probably James Earl Jones James, Oh yeah, yeah, and not
for all of the other reasons. I was able to
pull that one out of there. Yes, even with all
projects that he has done in his career, he did
the voiceover for the Bible, and I was always fascinating
because whenever I talk to my friends about you know,

(20:13):
how do you hear from God? And how do you
you know whatever? And I used to always say, in
a joking fashion, you know, God doesn't always speak to
us like James Earl Jones booming out of the sky.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Like I used to always say that even before he
did the work, oh wow, even before he did the
work that was the metaphor. I was like, you know,
you know, it's not always sounding like James Earl Jols
in your living room and then he did the work
and I was like, oh my god. So I always
wanted to ask, like what that experience was to connect
for him to connect with the Word of God to
deliver it in that audiobook. So that's that would be it.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, that's beautiful, that's beautiful. Yeah, you know he's he
has a voice that you know is one to remember.
And but sometimes God does whisper to us, you know,
and in a still small voice, and you're like, what
is did you hear that? You know? And you're like,
repeat it, God, I didn't get it all because you whispered,
you know. So, but thank you so much. It's been

(21:08):
a joy having you on the show today and we
wish you all the best with the two books and again, listeners,
if you please just join Linda and visit her site
and step one into it.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Thank you so much, Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Chell.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of a No
Fruit podcast where we bring you fruitful conversations, ripen wisdom
and love that's deeply rooted. If you enjoyed this episode,
don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review, and share
it with someone who could use a little inspiration in
their death. Until next time, stay rooted in love, and
remember every seed you plant today shapes the fruit of tomorrow.

All Episodes

The Dance of Love: Leadership and Followship in Relationships with Linda Sutton | S7E56

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Dance of Love: Leadership and Followship in Relationships with Linda Sutton | S7E56