Ochelli Effect 8-27-2025 Pearse Redmond

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Get ready for.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
August twenty eight, twenty twenty five, allegedly, according to that
thing we call a calendar, this is Thursday. This is
the O'Kelly effect, and I am doing this live regardless
of whether people are listening or not. And apologies immediately.
My voice is not quite fully recovered from whatever the
itck was that I had there, some kind of cold flu,
I don't know, but I'm gonna shrudge through, and apologies

(00:36):
in advance for coughing and whatever else. Anyway, I'm really
grateful because I've been wanting to get Pierce Redmond back
on and I had him scheduled for a couple of
weeks ago, but that's when my internet was taken away,
so you know, I had no internet. I had no
way to contact peers, and he showed up thinking we
were doing a live show and I couldn't respond. So

(01:00):
he was one of those people that I didn't have.
I guess a number stored in a good spot. But whatever,
I'm not blaming anybody. I didn't have internet, couldn't tell
him I can't do the show. Would have been a
simple matter. But anyway, since then, I've been wanting to,
you know, get him back on and I told him
a sap. But he's got a life too, and why

(01:21):
do I want to talk to him? Well, the Epstein
thing and Porkin's Policy Review dot com. That is the
website still, isn't it, Piers?

Speaker 1 (01:31):
That is still the website.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Okay, I just want to make sure not much, not.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Much happening, but yeah, it is. It is still the website.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, but there's an archive, there isn't there.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
There is an archive. Yeah, if you and you know,
you can search any of the keywords that Epstein Maxwell.
I was actually searching it this this morning in preparation
for this, and I actually I actually saw that there
was stuff that I thought I had tagged that I
did it, and so there we go.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, look they have it, and anybody you know, independent
media wise who isn't blessed with a staff and you know,
a box of gold being delivered to their facility like
some people you know, And that's a literal true story
about somebody in the alleged all media. But we're not
here to talk about them today, are we. The thing is,
you know, Epstein Maxwell, the circumstances, the currently kind of

(02:27):
fading from the news cycle. I mean, we got new
mass shootings, you know, Catholic School in Minneapolis, which oddly
I heard media people saying, you know, this is probably
a hate crime before they had a motive or even
knowledge allegedly of the shooter. H So you know that
doesn't bode well because most things that come out of

(02:50):
the mouths of reporters during live action events like that,
and I do mean to say it as you know,
something that is ongoing in real time, most of those
quotes come from what their interaction with police. So police
must have been saying this has to be a hate crime.
Don't know what inspired that, not saying anybody's a crisis

(03:11):
actor or shaking anything, not at all. But isn't it
fascinating how the media begins to spend something before they
even have all the facts at all. I mean, even
if you're trying to be objective about it. Oh, anyway,
back to our topic at hand. You know Epstein, what's
going on the Epstein files. We were going to get

(03:32):
the client list, all that contramaisy and what do we got?
Not much, not much that we didn't already have. And
also phase one is apparently, hey, here's all the crap
the researchers did. We were not necessarily all your friends anymore,
but some of them are magnation and they already had this.

(03:52):
But take a look at it like it's a brand new,
shiny object. It reminds me of the guy that in
real time turned around, took a quarter from me, shined
it up really good, put it back in front of me,
and tried to convince me that it was a different quarter. Yeah,
that's what they do. In some circles. They might call
it polishing a turn. I'm gonna stop talking real soon, guys,

(04:14):
in case you're wondering, because I want to hear from
Pierce about how he's viewing the current changes and evolution
in the Epstein slash Maxwell saga, because don't forget, Maxwell
is a co conspirator. Although I got a little problem here.
I mean, was it just a conspiracy of Jeffrey Epstein
and Gilaine, just Laine whatever, however you say, you know, Maxwell,

(04:39):
Was it just a conspiracy between those two people or
whether others involved? Because I got this odd idea about
how nobody else has been prosecuted here. But anyway, put
that aside, let's think about the logic of the way
this is being sold and spun spind or spun must
be spun right, how it is being spun to people?

(05:02):
I mean, really, if it's political spinning not a spinning top,
is it something that spinned past tense or it's something
that was spun. What do you think, pers I mean,
I know you're not an English major, but.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
It's still spinning at the current right, I mean, it's
it's I think they're still spinning this story. And I think,
you know, I feel like at the time we last
talked about it, I might be wrong, but I think
you were. You were a little bit more. I think
I was more bullish in terms of this continuing. And

(05:36):
I think you thought, oh, I don't know. And and
I think that in many ways they are. It hasn't
gone away, and they are continuing. They're having to kind
of continue to kind of reinterpret this and and spin
new I wouldn't really say they're like it's like new evidence,
but certainly people are beginning, I think, to U no

(05:59):
longer uh sit on stories. So we've seen that with
the Wall Street Journal, with the S. Birtday Book. We've
seen it with the New York Times and these the
you know, these articles that they had about with photos
showing surveillance cameras in Epstein's brown house in Manhattan, and

(06:20):
also other things that I don't know if you that
I saw this. Uh earlier today, I was reading and
Reason magazine of of of all places, and published some
stuff I guess leaked emails from Ahood Barack, which there
was nothing in that that was all that like earth
shattering or or big, but it was kind of further

(06:42):
confirmation of a lot of things that we knew visa
visair relationship Epstein and A. H. Barock, this company Carbine
that they were both involved in that sort of changed names.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
There were also I guess, you know email exchange is
between them talking about Peter Teele and others. So you know,
I think there's there's a lot more eyeballs on it,
and there are more certainly in the I guess what
Trump would deem as a liberal leftist media like CNN
and MSNBC and outlets like that, they are covering it

(07:21):
every day, and I think that even places like Fox
News and Newsmax are kind of being forced to either
dismiss it or or change tuned completely. And somehow the
the story is evolving to a place where Maxwell is

(07:42):
actually the victim. And you're seeing a lot of these
right wing Trump kind of cult members that are certainly
following the orders of the Guru and are completely parroting
that idea that Maxwell is some sort of victim, that
she's very courageous for speaking with Todd Blanche and so, yeah,

(08:05):
I don't know, I mean, it's it's a I I
still I still think I'm not sure that this will
be his complete undoing. I think that that is probably
you know, that this one thing is I don't know
if it's enough, but it is certainly he's unraveling, I think.
And you see that more with I mean, it seems

(08:27):
like every you know, with each passing news report about this,
or just each each time that a reporter is bringing
this up, he's gonna declare martial law in another state.
You know, He's threatened New York. He's he's gonna go
to other places as well. He's obviously trying to take
over Washington.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
D C.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
So I mean, that's uh, it's it's it's fascinating that
for Trump, the way to distract people is not bringing
not fighting a war overseas, it's just bringing that war home,
declaring martial law in Washington, d c. Or threatening to

(09:05):
do it in other states, as opposed to just say bombing,
you know, a pharmacy in Sudan, right famously Bill Clinton
did so.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
I have one question for you about this, and that
is that have you taken note of any shift or
pivot from the people that are far right of Gutfeld
in the podcasting and media world who do make their
money off of you know, hey, you know what, I'm
all in on Trump, And by the way, by this

(09:37):
particular powder and I have my own energy drink, and
you know, I also have gun products, which, by the way,
I don't object to anybody hawking whatever people are willing
to buy. But when they tell you your literal freedom
depends on you know, your energy drink, it gets a
little weird for me. But anyway, have you taken note
of any of those guys and the strange pivot that's

(09:59):
gone on recently, because to me, I'm seeing that yes, indeed,
this is not something that could instantly quash in the
news cycle, but it is being incrementally changed. And quick
note on CNN, just real fast, I don't know, you know,
people have argued with me over the years You're ridiculous.
They're left bringers there after Trump. See, they don't understand
the dynamic here the major shareholders. If you take a

(10:22):
look at the people that actually own and control CNN, Okay,
not kidding CNN directly, but also you take a look
at the different corporate individuals and entities that are involved
in that media company, and you examine who it is
they gave money to in the last election cycle and
the last time that Trump was also victorious, You'll notice

(10:45):
that CNN is one of his best campaign contributor contributors,
not just on regular paper but through their shell companies,
through the packs. You know, it's sort of like, well,
you know, the Kochs are supporting these left bring organizations
times because they have different views, and I'm like, no,
they're supporting badly standing left wing organizations, so that the

(11:08):
right wing organizations are supporting what you can afford to do.
If you make a couple of million dollars an hour,
you know, you can support a poorly designed adversary and
a well designed enemy and allow them to fight in
public to make a point. Oh wait, that's kind of
the formula for the WWE, and that's what you do Okay,

(11:30):
so CNN is literally living off of the content they
make out of Trump, however you want to view it.
And eventually they do apologize back off, and they're being
inundated with plenty of mag of people now who are
making the other argument. And you know, they pay Abby
Phillips to sit there and go, well, that doesn't make
any sense. They do that now instead of Don Lemon

(11:53):
going this doesn't make any sense. And now in the
next hour we're going to play how racist is it?
You know, Don Lemon is out there trying to do
a thing and he's surviving as a blessed podcaster as well.
But on the left, nobody's paying attention. There's an interesting
guy named uh oh god, what is He's got an
odd name. He's an Arab guy who is on the left.

(12:15):
You know what I'm talking about, I'm not sure. On CNN,
no no, no, in the podcast sphere, if you will,
they were accusing him of taking money from Qatar for
a little bit, and then you know they found out
that wasn't true. And you know, he recently did a
round the uh no, the Arab guy very short had time.

(12:35):
He recently did a round thing where he brought a
bunch of magat people into a room, got surrounded by them,
and got them to admit that they liked fascism and
stuff like that. You know, is your thing? No, no,
it's not the guy I got. I gotta look it
up really quick. But anyway, my point that I wanted
in the question, which is now lost in my babbling,

(12:58):
is have you observed that the right wing media sphere
is doing And I do mean the constant radio shows
that still exist on you know, terrestrial radio, uh, you know,
mostly brought to you by Fox News, but there's still
some indies trying to creep in and become the next uh,
you know, Bondi, or or become the next you know,
deputy director of what is he the NBI d o J.

(13:20):
I forget, what's that guy anyway? Who cares? I don't know, Bino, Yeah,
whatever the hell he's allegedly doing and was outraged about,
or you know, the next cash Betel without money, Uh
you know, something like that.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Either way, there's a sphere that goes from the very
obvious in the corporate to the fringe, and they are
all effectively uh you know, living on the Trump side
of the fence regardless of what any of their past
you know, discussions, were their ideas about the Constitution in
air quotes, uh, et cetera. It's okay, constitution is something

(13:56):
we can beat everybody over the ad with until our
guy breaks it, in which case, you know what, That's
the way it was supposed to be. You know those
guys who are out there like Trump's a hero right now,
everything's going good. I mean, they're literally locked into a greater,
more intense propaganda machine than Fox News ever was. Have
you taken any observations as to their pivot lately.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
I mean, yeah, I've definitely. I mean I would say,
like the obviously, like the big one that I think
even people who are completely removed from this would know
is like the Joe Rogan kind of you know, pivot
from Trump is Messiah to what's going on here? He's
covering everything up and and I think that, I mean,

(14:42):
I think they're they're they're really uh, I think they
they're unsure of what they're supposed to be doing. I
think this is like so I think for any of them,
like the kind of more twirpy you know, Charlie Kirk,

(15:03):
I mean he he seems completely content to just do
whatever Trump calls him up and tells him to do.
So you're you know, you see him suddenly saying release
the files. And then the next day is I trust
the government. I love the government. They know what they're doing.
Maxwell as a hero, we should applaud her. But you know,
and that's kind of like part for the course. I
think that's like, of course you would be so spineless

(15:24):
as to defend a pedophile and certainly, you know, at
the best case scenario just an enabler of a pedophile
and at the worst case someone that was involved in
abuse and in trafficking people. That doesn't shock me. Some
of the other people, though, on the right wing, it
it I think they like I saw, I think.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
This was on.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Like Piers Morgan has a TV show. I don't even
know what the network is. I saw this on YouTube.
But there were even you know, even Jack Paso bit
or whatever the hell his name is, who works at
who Human Events now, and you know, he was a
Guantanamo intelligence officer. He's one of these just right wing

(16:11):
bigot Trump supporters. Even he is like super pissed. I mean,
this was this was arguably several weeks ago. I'm not
sure what his view is now, but he seemed to
be I think, kind of like shell shocked by this
realization that this person that was claiming to be the

(16:33):
answer to all of these things is actually covering it up.
And then the further question is like why are they
covering it up? So yeah, I mean I have noticed it.
I think that it's it's It's interesting though all the same,
how people are able to kind of dismiss it. I
mean I've seen you know, I mean, obviously people like
Alex Jones are you know, schizophrenic and the what they

(16:54):
will support of what they want support. And he seems
to be kind of just almost like a this whole
movement on steroids. She probably is on also, but he
doesn't seem to know which way he's going.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
You know.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
I saw that he was, you know, he was saying
that that people from Trump's office were calling him telling
him to stop doing this. He's defended Trump and I've
seen something he's gone after him. This is really Trump's
you know, double secret three D chess deep state ploy,
you know. So yeah, I don't know it. It's fascinating.

(17:30):
I think though, that the thing that is interesting to
me is that there are enough people within his movement
and and also just people are you know, right wingers
that dislike him for whatever reason. And we see that

(17:52):
with some of the people in Congress that are certainly
not you know, they're not I don't know that I
would say on ninety nine percent of the things they
would agree with Trump, but for whatever reason they dislike him.
There's enough of a I don't know, political will to
pursue it. And I think that I don't know that

(18:15):
I'm not sure that they're fully aware of what they
are pursuing. I think that many of these people think
they can. It's funny, I find the more and more
I look at this and you see all these people
like you see Trump and Bondye and the response they've had.
They always seem to think they can handle this. They

(18:38):
know what they're gonna do. And you see that too
with a lot of these like right wing radio hosts.
They think, no, no, I can spin this, I can
spin this. This is good for us, don't worry. And
I think what what is happening more and more is
that the people listening to these people are just even
more incensed. And and you see that like with like

(18:59):
the like the timeline of events that uh has transpired
with this like this the original you know, when they
initially sort of renegged on their promise to release the
Epstein files. Then you know, a few days later, Trump
is complaining to his bass. Then the Wall Street Journals

(19:20):
you know, comes out with the the this Epstein birthday
book story, and Bondie fires Maureen Comy. Then the Wall
Street Journal, you know, publishes the story. Then suddenly Blanche
is gonna meet with Maxwell, and you know, then they're

(19:41):
they're meeting with Maxwell, and then you know, initially Maxwell claims, oh,
I don't know anything about this, you know, recruiting from
mar Alago. And then you know, a day later, Maxwell says, oh, well,
you know what, actually maybe maybe we did recruit someone
from mar Alago. And there she's obviously talking about ju free,
but did her name? And then a few days later

(20:01):
Trump is says, oh, no, well, actually Jeffrey was stolen
from our a Lago. He you know, she worked there,
and I don't know Epstein, you know, hand picked her
and moved her over there. And then suddenly Maxwell's moved
to a new prison location. Then you've got the new
York Times Brownstone story where they published photos where you

(20:24):
can see the surveillance equipment, and then they released the
Maxwell transcripts, which you know, I was I have not
listened to all six hours of it, but just jumping
around listening to clips that, you know, the kind of
like newsworthy ones that all the kind of main media had,
and then plus I would just sort of I would
just sort of jump around between the six hours and

(20:46):
just sort of pick a spot, and it's it's like
a complete It is just six hours of Maxwell basically
saying she is the victim. Everything is everyone was against her,
nothing bad really happened. Everything is fake, you know, according
to her. I mean, it's like right out of Trump's playbook.

(21:07):
But and we could we should get to that a
little bit. But I just find this story it just
keeps unraveling, and they keep thinking that, oh, Okay, if
we do this, then everyone will kind of move on,
and it doesn't work. So I I think that with
the I think that the the congressional hearings that are
going into this, my sense is that they I think

(21:31):
they're looking for something. I think they're obviously from who
they want to subpoena that they're obviously, you know, with
the power the Republicans have in the House, they're trying
to kind of pin this onto the Democrats. But they
are also asking people like Acosta is going to be there,
He's going to be answering questions, and you know it's

(21:54):
Acosta has said some pretty crazy things in the past,
including that, you know, he was told to back off
of the Epstein stuff because of his connections to intelligence.
I think anyone you know, on that committee that gets
there five minutes or whatever can ask him, you know,
what the hell, why what happened? Why did Trump? You know,

(22:17):
did you what was going on there? What about the
Sweetheart deal? So I think that they believe that they
can kind of control this story, but this story is uncontrollable,
and it just seems to be getting worse.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
And.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
This constant attempt Like I saw some interview with Jim
Jordan basically on Fox being like, yeah, there's nothing to
see here. You know, Maxwell is innocent, and you know,
she said that Trump didn't do anything wrong. Let's move on.
And I mean it's just insane. Can you imagine if
this was Biden, right, and these allegations were about him.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Well, that's the interesting thing. There's always a hypocrisy built in,
and I'll just like, let you run here. I didn't
want to interrupt you because I wanted to listen in
real time to your thought process. And I've got to say,
you know, look, you and I disagree from time to
time on certain things, and occasionally I gotta be fair
with you. You know, sometimes you got to flip a
coin as to which one of us sees this the

(23:15):
correct way when it comes to the way certain things
are going to play out. And that's what's happened over
the years. That's why I love talking to you, by
the way, because I'm not always right and you're not
always wrong. You know what I'm saying. It's greatest. We
haven't a back and forth here, and my argument is
very simple. Oh, by the way, Ziteo is the name

(23:35):
of the media organization this guy started, and his last
name is a San. I thought you meant his first
name was the San, but I didn't have that off
the top of my head, Mehdi or something like that.
I'm probably butchering the name. Eh oh. Yes, So it's
like Mehdi Hassan. He's a left wing guy who literally said,

(23:56):
you know what, surround me with maga people, and I'm
gonna have him at the mic one by one and
let the other mag of people throw up red flags
around us, you know, to say, you know, when it's
time to cut this guy off and let them debate
me with whatever points they think I'm an idiot liberal about.
And it was pretty fascinating to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
I know, I know him. He used to work for
Al Jazeera for many years, and then he went to
The Intercept and then MSNBC and now yeah, he has
his own I know him from from interviewing recently Miss Rachel.
She is a kids she makes kids content, but she's

(24:37):
also been very outspoken about the atrocities in Gaza. So
anyone with a one year old or you know, older
will probably know who Miss Rachel is.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Okay, cool. I you know, I don't know Miss Rachel
because my my youngest is now eleven. But believe me,
I understand.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, I think Frankie is probably
phased out of the Miss Rachel sort of. She's sort
of like a the new mister Rogers.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Gotcha, No, No, I understand. Look, there are these trends
that come along. When Frankie was little, they were doing this,
you know, say hello to your fingers thing online and
somebody created that. That was a big deal. And the
gaming channels where there were families playing games were a
huge thing for your kids to watch. And it came

(25:24):
along with songs and everything else. You know, you go
into the nineties. I remember women, I knew young women
with kids, and you couldn't escape Barney. Look, there's always
a trend among kids that you can't escape if they're
ever exposed to the media broadcast other kids.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Forget it.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
It's over that you're stuck with something. And I guess
miss Rachel's the current thing. Don't tell me anything else
about it, please, because no matter what it is, whether
it's baby shark, it doesn't matter. It's gonna drive you
insane if you're a parent for a little while, I
promise you, okay, And you know, look, and I'm very

(26:07):
happy for you. I don't want to discuss things, but
I'm very happy for your change in family situation, which
is very recent. And as a first time parent, you're
going to experience some things that no matter what I
tell you, you're just gonna have to do them. Quite frankly
and sorry to say, and look for those people to
take them all on the left wing side. I always

(26:27):
love to point these things out, and Pierce might disagree
with me about this too. Just current event, totally not
tied to the Epstein thing or anything. What's happening at
the CDC right now. I'm kind of happy about it,
but I worry as to what the payoff to Big
Farm is going to be, because they're not going to

(26:48):
just go out of business. So I'm a little worried
about the other shoe that drops that nobody hears in
the woods when it comes to things like this. So
you know, Bobby Kennedy legitimately wants to do some of
what he's doing. How far that'll go and what the
background deal on that is going to be or is

(27:10):
already in place, We're going to find out later and
it's going to probably be unfortunate. But on the surface,
I'm happy about what I see there a peers. You
might not be when it comes to vaccinations and you know,
and the weird things going on and people resigning and saying, oh,
it's now more dangerous in America because we don't have
the ability to you know, enforce these things on people

(27:31):
if we don't have all these people in place, and
we did the science, even though they didn't do a
lot of studies. People like me have said this for years.
They made declarations without studies, despite what the propaganda says,
and that, no matter what your position is, should be alarming. So,
you know the fact that some people are resigning and

(27:51):
being fired over that, I'm not upset. I'm actually if
Trump wasn't a complete disaster in eighty other places might
be starting to side with his administration over this. And
in fact, that's a dangerous lesson for a lot of
people who got their niche thing addressed without ever taking

(28:12):
into account the ramifications of that or the rest of
what goes on around. You know, if this place serves
me a good cheeseburger, I don't care if they're raping
and murdering people in the back room is almost a lot.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
I mean, yeah, look at all the people, I mean
just say in that with what you're saying, Look at
all the people that voted for him, because he was
going to round up all the pedophiles. He was gonna
he was going to blow the you know, blow the
lid off of Epstein and how it's all the Democrats
and they're they're murdering children, and you know they're they're

(28:48):
using their adrenaline and sex parties and all this. You
know that that's that's it was a broad swath of
people voted for him, probably for that one thing. I mean,
you could look at the same people to all these
I mean, I don't want to call them idiots, but
you see you see this like every day when you're
on YouTube, it's like another news clip of some poor

(29:13):
you know, Hispanic voter who voted for Trump and now
they're like, you know, niece is being deported, or they're
being deported, or someone they love is is being rounded up.
I mean, these are people that like voted for him
and they were like convinced, no, no, he's going to
you know, he's going to round up the drug dealers,

(29:35):
not the you know, the guys that are you know,
hanging out at home depot getting contracting work. Well yeah,
I mean there's so many of them. We're willing to
look beyond what he has been saying about, you know,
these evil immigrants coming in and stealing our jobs and

(29:55):
raping everybody and stuff. And you know that you just
assume no, no, no, it'll be fine, and you know it's
completely working against them.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah. Well that's the funny thing is like there's still
a look of shock. See there's two things going on
that are interesting though. The look of shock on the
lady who goes. I didn't think they were going to
come and take Jose the ice cream man, which they did.
In a couple of communities they took.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Like, yeah, the one in like, uh, what is it in,
like Los Angeles or something, Well.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
There's one in LA. But there was a couple like
somewhere in the Midwest too, where it was like, this
is like Jose the ice cream guy. He's been around
here for thirty years. He never bothered anybody, and they're like,
they took that guy. And recently they also took firefighters
who were fighting you know, massive wild fighters. They fires.
They went to the fire department where like you have
any illegal immigrants and they were like, well, you could check,

(30:44):
but we're in the middle of fighting fires. They waited
for them to go on break and took them. You know,
that doesn't sound to me like the murders and rapists
and you know, cartel people. But then again, you know,
I'm told they are anyway, and oh well, you know,
nobody wants to pay attention to that part of it.
But here's here's the amazing thing. You see the individual

(31:05):
look of horror on why did they take the maid?
Why did they take the guy who sweeps the sidewalk?
Why did they take the ice cream man? Why did
they take your guys from home depot?

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Damn it?

Speaker 2 (31:16):
How come I can't get guys to do my field work,
et cetera. You know, I wonder what these guys with
the I mean, I guess there's machines now, maybe at
the wineries, the vineyards in calip I don't know how
that's gonna work out. But anyway, you see looks of
surprise from that, and yet is there a significant drop

(31:36):
in his support? No. See, that's the thing is that,
as much as it may horrify that women they get
on camera, who's willing to talk to the local newsperson
standing there with their you know, phone on a stick,
because that's how they send out most reporters now in
most cities, by the way, here, take your phone on
a stick, use your own car. We'll give you some gas. Go.
That's what they do. In serious, in mid in mid

(31:59):
and even major size cities, they don't have a cameraman
at a truck anymore. Mostly they have down sized. And
it's usually the you know, you got a good iPhone, Great,
here's a stick so you can film yourself. Is literally
what's happening. It's cheaper, way, easier, faster anyway. But that

(32:21):
look of horror is not counterbalanced by a significant group
of people disappearing. Sure, it's an example of somebody going,
I can't believe this is happening. How come there's no
guys at the own deepo to help me fix my cabinets?
You know, holcome the ice cream man got taken away?
They took firefighters. Oh my god. Yet you didn't realize
how many people might have not had their paperwork straight.

(32:43):
They were doing a lot of jobs. I get it, okay,
And that is the point, or it's the liberal media
trying to sell it to you. He's not really losing anything,
and he's still pretty much maintaining his support. I mean,
en mass. And here's the thing, even if you want
to bring up this immigration thing, I got got to
play this TikTok video please because and it's the audio

(33:04):
and I think it's less than it might be a
minute in something, but it's it's titled let's talk about
immigration hypocrisy in the Trump family. And the reason why
I bring this up is not even to attack him.
I just wonder how it is that we can be
morally indignant about so many things that are in our

(33:29):
wheelhouse of issues and when it's your guy and it
doesn't matter, by the way, any side does this. You know,
we care about family values until their guy doesn't care
about family values. We care about drug problems until they
find out, you know, their kids have a drug problem.
We care about It's amazing. I mean, we are literally

(33:50):
the land of hypocrisy that doesn't want to, you know,
face itself. I don't know what do you even call
that anymore? You know, telling the truth? I mean that's
a bygone conclusion because whose truth is it? But here's
this this TikTok, which yeah, obviously it's somebody who's opposed
to Trump, But can you argue with the facts that

(34:13):
are in this And even if you can argue with
one or two, can you eliminate all of this interesting
information about the dynamic when somebody's trying to remove if
you're born here, you're a citizen. If you have this,
you're a citizen. Also. Can I just take you know,
people who have their citizen papers and send them to
foreign countries to screw them. Uh? You know those statements,

(34:36):
all that stuff line it up against a little bit
of recent ancestral history. You know that you should be
able to see on ancestry dot com regarding you know,
the current president. That's all. That's the point of listen.
Let's take a listen, peers and see if we can
learn anything from this. I'm sure you know all this,

(34:57):
but let's see if we can learn something here. Let's
see come on.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
The green cards for me, but not for thee.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
Today we're gonna roll back the tape and do a
quick bick recap on first gen American Donald Trump and
his immigrant family. Of course, the story begends with Grandpa Drum,
German immigrant came to the US at sixteen, eventually tried
to return to Germany but was deported for dodging military service.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Okay, you can hear this right, yes, okay, good. I
just want to make sure you could hear it clearly.
And obviously we've covered you know, original drump coming to America,
tried to return to Germany and was ejected from Germany
because he had failed to take care of his military service,
so they didn't want him back. That's by the way,

(35:47):
I had no objection. Who knows, maybe he was a pacifist.
I'm not saying there's a problem there. But let's just
face the reality of the history. And now I'm gonna
let it continue unmolested here and Pierce and I are
going to listen. But I wanted to be sure Pierce
could hear this because I didn't test to begin with
guys forty listening. Anyway, here we go.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
Friedrich Drumf married another German woman and together they had
Fred Donnie T's dad. Fred Trump built his fortune using
government subsidies to build affordable housing. He was later investigated
by the Senate for profiteering and sued by the Justice
Department for racially discriminatory housing practices.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Okay, a little inaccuracy there. I'm not sure how much
of the government subsidized housing he actually built, but he
did bring in a lot of money from government subsidies
to maintain things, to install new things, to improve the
government housing that he was offering up as here's my

(36:42):
chief alternative, so I can get you know, like section
eight payments, it was called something else then, I think,
But either way, this was the business he was in,
and that's just you know, I just point that out,
and I'm not sure if she's entirely accurate there. Anyway,
let's let it continue.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
Fred married Mary Ann trump Done' mom. She was a
poor Scottish immigrant who came to New York and worked
as a maid. In a nineteen forty US census, she
falsely claimed that she was a US citizen, even though
records showed that she didn't become a citizen until two
years later nineteen forty two.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Now let's talk wives.

Speaker 4 (37:15):
Donni TI's first wife, Evanna, was an immigrant from Czechoslovakia.
All three of their children, Eric, Ivanka, and Don Junior
were all born before she was a US citizen, and
despite being married to a US citizen, Donald Trump, it
still took her eleven years to get her citizenship. And then,
of course, his third and current wife, Milania, born in Slovenia,
came on a visitor visa, worked illegally as a model,

(37:37):
and somehow landed in Einstein visa and then used chain
migration to bring her parents over. Her son, Baron, also
born before she was a US citizen.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
So essentially, what we've learned is that.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
Trump's entire existence and that of his children is thanks
to the very same immigration policies that he's fought so
hard to destroy. So next time somebody says come the
right way, ask them if that also includes the Trump family.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Oh yeah, So I do find that an interesting question, right,
because according to a lot of things that have been argued, supported,
demanded as of late by the president, is you know, acolytes,
his sick offhants and the rest of the people that
show up at rallies. You know, seems to me like

(38:29):
most of his family, ex wives, everybody should have been
deported at certain points here, you know, and maybe he
doesn't belong here. Oh, by the way, does that mean
he shouldn't be president? I mean, I'm just questioning. So really,
if you follow the chain, now, I don't agree with
any of that. By the way, I think that if

(38:51):
you're born here, as I've understood it, that's your citizen.
They change the law or change up the constitution after that,
you know, there's this thing called a grandfather clause where
you know, that's the way the law was before. When
you did this thing, we can't rewind to go. They
changed the law, so now we got to punish you
for a crime. Now we have to deport you because

(39:13):
you're not I think that's the way the law works.
But then again, I'm crazy. So you know, there's a
logic there that if you try and present this to
somebody who is all in, they just, you know, completely
spit it. It's sort of like throwing a cat onto

(39:37):
a table when you're trying to build a house of cards.
You know, they might not be interested in that house
of cards, but that house card is going to fall
if you throw that cat on the table. And that's
what they do to your logical argument. That's what they
do to their own arguments. That's what happens to everything.
And at the end of it, you're just happy the
cat didn't scratch you. I mean, that's literally the metaphorum

(40:00):
looking for you here. Maybe I'm again out of line,
and I'm not even trying to be against the guy.
In fact, today would be a good day for me
to be for the Trump administration because of the action
at the CDC. I mean, I could pick out that
and I could say, finally, somebody's doing the things and
saying some of the things, including we're one of the
most medicated populations on the planet and yet we're still

(40:21):
very sick. Something doesn't make sense here. Bobby Kennedy was
saying that today and has said that many times, and
that's a sentence that comes out of my mouth almost
similar one often. So somebody who is actually enacting my
will under the Trump administration, I'm still concerned as to

(40:41):
what the price of that is going to be. And
even though it may be a nice little victory here
or there, you know, I always have this sneaking suspicion
that when they give you something nice, you know, there
are certain people that only give you something to either
a get something or to distract you from something there
taking from you, and they give you a little prize,

(41:03):
you know, when somebody's house burns down and they show
up with a sandwich. Yes, you're grateful for the sandwich,
but if the same person who gave you the sandwich
burned your house down, you're thinking maybe you lost in
that equation. Just saying, but I know, none of that
makes any sense, Piers. Maybe that's your thoughts for later.
But when we look at this Maxwell slash Epstein situation,

(41:26):
I have that same feeling. You know, here we go,
we're not going to give you much, but by the
time we do. Maybe it's my experience with the JFK
stuff that's done this to me. You know, by the
time they give you something, they've already stolen ten things,
They've already declined to prosecute certain people, they've already removed

(41:46):
people from the list in quotes, they've already so, you know,
and the spin is happening. I think incrementally it's going
to get cushed and over time, this outrage it's not
even going to put a dent in his popularity and
his efforts to maybe even take a third term, which,
by the way, according to the Constitution. You know, that

(42:08):
thing I thought wasn't even a question, But everything is
now questionable, depending on what you want the answer to
be anymore in America. That's the new reality in which
we find ourselves, which is why I figure not only
is his positive media going to quash it, but his
alleged opposite, you know, the media that's allegedly in opposition

(42:30):
to him, is going to let it fade. I think
they're already doing it. It's not at the top of
the headlines anymore, Piers not mostly. But then again, here's
the version your algorithms. Your algorithms may vary goohd no, No,
I think.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
That's true too. I mean, you know, what, what I'm
looking at when I google it is probably different than
what you know everyone else is seeing when they google it.
It's listening. But I think I still, I still believe
this has serious traction, and I think it might be

(43:10):
going away among certain aspects or certain swaths of his
supporters and stuff are willing to kind of turn a
blind eye and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
But I.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Still think that I'm fairly certain he won't pardon Maxwell.
But even that seems like, I don't know, maybe he will,
you know, I mean, I would like to think that
that is like a red line that even he won't cross.
I don't know how he would explain that. But the
fact that that's even being floated, that he's even floating it,

(43:48):
is shocking, and I think that that's shocking to people.
But I still think that there are now so many
eyeballs on it that weren't previously, And I think there
are people that are that we're sitting on stories like
the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, CNN, others like that,

(44:12):
and they now see an opening and I'm gonna see
more of that. I don't think that it's necessary, Like,
you know, there is no smoking gun. There's not going
to be a you know, video that's going to come
out that definitively proves that, you know, Trump was with
Epstein partying and having sex with you know, underage individuals.

(44:36):
I don't think that's ever going to come out. But
I think that this has the potential to really unravel
the administration. And I still think that at this moment
right now, he is so the administration has become so insular,

(45:00):
and now it's like he's kind of he's stuck. He
can't replace any of these people. He can't get rid
of Bondie, he can't get rid of Ptellit, he can't
get rid of Bongino, you know, all these Todd Blanche
and others. I mean, And in some ways you could think, oh, well, yeah,
it's just sort of strengthening it. But in other ways,
I think it really kind of like it locks him
in and now these people also have power over him.

(45:22):
You know, you can't get rid of me, because if
you get rid of me, I'll, you know, I'll leak
such and such a story. And I still think that
also that this particular story is so vast and far reaching.
There are so many people involved in this, and it

(45:42):
is it is an event or you know, a period
of time that has never I don't think that people
have ever really been able to control the narrative at times,
people on the left, people on the right, they've been
able to kind of control it to an extent. You know,
it's all Bill Clinton. No, it's all Donald Trump, you know,

(46:06):
those sort of looking at through everything in these sort
of political lenses. But I think more people are beginning
to see that there are victims involved in this. There
are people that want to know there are there's more
at stake than this, and I think that none of
them really have a sense of how powerful this is. Now.

(46:28):
It's it's completely possible too on the you know that
because so many people are involved in this, will never
really know to somehow it will get, you know, quashed.
But I think that even if it does get quashed
like that, enough people will will understand and will remember
why is that, you know, I mean just just thinking

(46:51):
you know about this before and then you know, when
you were talking about you know, CNN, and then the
true sort of like puppet masters there. This was something
that I didn't know until you know, a few days
ago or today actually is that you know, Bill Gates
has been meeting with Donald Trump in the White House.
They would have these private now and I really really

(47:14):
doubt that they were talking about Gates, you know, global
health initiatives. I'm sure they were talking about Epstein and
I'm sure they were talking about Epstein when they had
this private dinner, you know, before he was inaugurated. And
you know, it's that kind of stuck you know, I mean,
which you could look at that and be like, nothing
is going to come out because if Bill Gates and

(47:34):
Donald Trump can agree on one thing, and it's that.
But at the same time, I really do think that
there are so many more eyeballs on this. There are
more people that are speaking out about this, even you know,
people that had like Maria Farmer, who and maybe I'm wrong,
but I you know, before all of this came out,

(47:55):
I don't believe she ever spoke really negatively about Donald Trump.
And now she is she is telling people about you know,
stories when you know, going to Epstein's office in the
middle of the night and seeing Donald Trump there and
Epstein telling her no that you know, she's not for you,
or something to that effect.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Yeah. There, here's here's the issue I have with what
you're saying. And look, you're my friend. You know, I'm
not trying to destroy you, Okay, I'm not trying to
even debate you full on. I just offer some counterpoints.
And here's the problem with this idea of well, he
can't get rid of BONDI and you can't get rid

(48:35):
of bond Gino. I think that's bs. And here's why
in order to you know, leverage somebody with that kind
of information in order to perform blackmail. Let's remove all
of the issues from this, except that in order to
blackmail somebody, in order to leverage somebody with information, right,

(48:56):
you have to be able to identify that is, you know, valuable.
You have to be able to access it and control it, okay,
and then you have to be able to communicate to
your mark that you have the ability. And a lot
of people get to that part and they can communicate

(49:18):
the threat or the ability. I mean, you know, Elon
Musk communicate it a threat on Twitter and then changes
his mind about it. You know, Trump is in the
epstet piles. I'm sorry, I was angry. Yeah, I mean, okay,
Bondi and Bongino could communicate that threat. But the level
of competence it would require to identify, capture, and then

(49:40):
control information in order to successfully utilize it as leverage
requires a level of competence that I think these characters
that you think are locked in do not possess, and
you know, evident by making public statements that make you
look like a fool. Uh, you know, regarding he's ready

(50:03):
to quit, you know how many months ago now Longino,
he's ready to quit over this?

Speaker 1 (50:08):
No, No, I agree, I agree. I think that they I
mean I think that if anything, it just illustrates that
the I mean, how incompetent. Yeah, they are as an
administrat you know. And it's so funny too because it's like, oh,
they're gonna they're gonna do, you know, destroy the deep state,
and it's like, well, best case scenario, they're completely incompetent.

(50:29):
They can't even crisis manage this story. So I don't
know how they're gonna take on the deep state, and
then it's like, you know, worst case scenario, this is
the deep state. This is how incompetent they are, you know,
this is like this is well, these are the front
the best that they can offer.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
These are the front men and the secondary front man.
Because reality is different. Look, never forget that he had
to get rid of Komy, even though Komi had successfully
put out information right before an election that he won
that undermined you know, Hillary, which I you know, I
still say to this day, the CIA could not have

(51:07):
even convincingly, uh, you know, stolen that election for her
in public. But you know, so that's why we got
Trump in the first place. But remember this, He replaced
Komi and got Christopher Ray in there because that was
his guy, and he seemed to be doing his bidding.
He seemed to be doing a lot of stuff. And
then eventually Christopher Ray is actually an enemy of these

(51:30):
other people.

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Right, Well, what do you want to know?

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Speaker 2 (55:21):
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Speaker 2 (58:52):
So we returned from a quick break. There little technical issue,
but I was in the midst of talking about Christopher
Ray and the changeover from He's Trump's guy to replace
call me too, he's part of the deep state, but
also recognized that John Bolton had to be removed. Uh
and then he was no longer a good guy, and
he was on a media tour, and then he put
out a book, and then recently they raided his house.

(59:15):
So you go from being I know, the best people
to your an enemy of the state. And I don't know,
it doesn't seem like these guys' behaviors changed.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
So I'm thinking, you know, Bondi Bongino, I mean, what,
they're not eligible for the John Bolton or the Christopher
Ray treatment appears. I mean, that's my objection, and I
turn it to you with that.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
I think you're I think it's a valid point, and
I think that it's totally possible, especially with someone as
mercurial as Trump. He could turn on a dime, obviously,
and he does every day.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
And he's transactional He's transactional always, so you know, remember
that it's about the last transaction. What have you done
for me lately? They might have said in the eighties,
but you know, here, here we go.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Sorry, go ahead, No, No, I mean I think that,
but maybe I'm wrong. I might be I might be
over estimating this, But I think that when it comes
to this particular issue, the Epstein stuff, this child trafficking, pedophilia,

(01:00:20):
this hits with his base in a way that almost
nothing else does. And and it was interesting we were
talking earlier about these you know, these poor people that
are getting uh, you know, rounded up by ice and
they're being you know, rendered to different prisons across the

(01:00:40):
United States or being sent you know to El Salvador
or Mexico or you know, and then sometimes places they're
not even actually from. And that that makes you know,
some people that vote for oh, I can't believe they
you know, they got rid of this guy who was
his beloved ice cream man and blah blah blah, and
it's kind of like a blip, and it kind of

(01:01:01):
like leaves. But and that's like someone that they might
actually have a personal relationship with. Yet there's all of
these these kind of faceless, nameless victims out there that
you know mean everything to these people. And it's funny

(01:01:21):
because even even the actual like victims that are involved
in this, like you know, Jeffree who's no longer with us,
Maria Farmer, Courtney Wild, Sarah Ransom, you know, so these
people that are their names have come out. I mean,
to them, they don't even really like see those people,
you know, but it's it's all the all the girls,

(01:01:42):
all the women, you know, Epstein, They're just they're they're
doing all somehow that this amorphous group of people they
can't really name that means everything to them. And I
think there is some power there, and I think that
they the for me, at least the number of people
that voted for him based on that. I don't think

(01:02:05):
that he can just turn that off and convince them no.
So I don't know. To me, I think it's just
true he could totally turn on these people like Bondi
and others. And I think it's interesting that someone like
Bolton does does have a little bit of juice enough
to go on CNN and be like he's an idiot

(01:02:29):
to write a book, and you see the response to
that is that they're raiding his house and you know,
I don't know, he's keeping national security secrets and he's
being removed from the you know, his CIA daily briefings
and all that kind of stuff. But I think Bolton
has enough juice to you know, for him, it's like okay, whatever,

(01:02:50):
like let's let's do it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
I mean, this is like a Neocon these Neocon royalty.
I don't know, but I don't think he's gonna like,
I don't think that Bolton is and it suddenly just stop.
But and I do think that he could turn on
these other people, but I think that if he does,
I do think his base is going to have a reaction.

(01:03:11):
And I think that he's he's trying his best to
tiptoe around it and to manage it, and in some
respects it is working because I think you are right,
the kind of like magnifying glass on this is maybe
not as powerful as it was a few weeks ago,
but it's not going away. Johnson's attempts to make it disappear,

(01:03:36):
you know, at the summer recess, I mean it's completely meaningless.
They're going to come back and they're going to vote
on this. There's already a committee that is subpoenaing all
sorts of people, including Acosta, And I don't think it's
going to end with this one committee hearing. And yeah,

(01:03:57):
I don't know, I think it. I don't think it
has the power to like take down the presidency the
way that some people in the media that dislike him
might think. But for me, at least, the fact that
there will never be a history book written that doesn't
have to have a chapter on this that I think

(01:04:19):
is like a pretty big blow to someone like Trump.
And I think that's what drives him. It's not, you know,
it's not what the media thinks about him. It's the
fact that this is going to be in the history books.
There's no way to avoid this. And I do think
that there now you're beginning to see not like cracks

(01:04:41):
in this, but he has said this is all made up,
it's none of it's real. Maxwell is saying none of
this is real. And then you have people like Brad Edwards,
who he was, you know, an attorney for that represented
many of the victims, he's saying, who has actually been
favorable to Trump, but he's always said that Trump cooperated

(01:05:03):
with him. Trump was willing to go on the record
with him. You know when when Courtney Wilde was one
of his clients, was suing Epstein, So you know, Trump
is one that was you know at the time he
wanted to talk to Edwards. Okay, okay, any thing I
know about Epstein.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
I now have to interrupt you, because, first of all,
if you examine the way that Trump has handled depositions
and lawsuits in the past, you know that's not going
to be a productive deposition no matter what you're looking for,
because that is.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
His and I think it's BS two. And in fact,
it wasn't even a deposition he did. They did not.
I don't think they truly subpoenaed him. He spoke just
on the record to him. He's just like talked on
the phone. But even worse, there was no deposition.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Even worse because when he's in an adversarial position with
lawyers actually questioning him, it gets really strange. I mean,
you can look at any of the released stuff from
you know, various lawsuits against whether it's Trump University or
it's you know, the sex assault you know deal, It
is such a nightmare of this guy is actually skilled

(01:06:11):
in making sure you get nothing done when it comes
to trying to depose him. So no matter what methodology,
how loose it is, how committed it is, how legal
and lawful it is, how much on the record, it's
all irrelevant. One. Two here's another thing that just amazes me.
See this will have to be in the history, but

(01:06:31):
you're forgetting something. The people that were with him on
the He's going to get the pedophiles thing were with
him in twenty fifteen. They witnessed what happened with Epstein.
They witnessed the suicide, which they questioned. They witnessed all
of that. Then he left office and Maxwell was taken
in while Biden was in office. If you listen to

(01:06:53):
those people now about the history, they're fully willing to
accept that Epstein committed suicide under no I know, I know.
So the adjustment of the timeline is like these people
that argue Mandela effect with me, it's just nope, it
was this way, but it wasn't yes, it was what

(01:07:16):
do you do with that? So the acceptable history that
could be written out of this. And I talked to
Larry Hancock last night about how history is being manipulated
and politicized, and this is exactly the kind of thing
that's going to create false histories, and people are celebrating
over false histories that claim to want the truth the history.

(01:07:39):
This is where we're at. So I gotta tell you
your point doesn't stand very well with me considering what
I'm watching happen in real time. I mean, it's like
they blame stuff on Obama when he's not even in office.
They say, well, you had control from the outside. I mean,

(01:07:59):
I have no way of stopping the intellectual contortions of
those that will change the timeline, change the power dynamic
change who was responsible? And they're also fully on board
with that wind of change there. When Bolton was brought
in by Trump, he's a great guy. When Trump rejected him,

(01:08:20):
no longer, I need to grow up.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
I don't know. And I think again, that's a valid point,
and I think that those people are too far gone.
They are you know, these are the equivalent of you know,
Trump's own sort of sea Org with these individuals.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
They're they're they're so.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Immeshed in his culture personality. But I mean, you're never
going to really convince. I mean, again, they could see
a video of Trump with Epstein and doing god knows
what and it would be fake, right, you know, I
mean everything is already fake. But I I mean those people,

(01:09:03):
you're never gonna convince it one way or the other.
I mean, you know, they would be willing to turn
on their own family members, and some of them, I
think do because of that. But I do think that
there are enough people. I think there are still people
that are on the fence. I think there are people
that were more recently conned by him, and he's utilized

(01:09:26):
those people, and those are the people that I think
he's pissed that he's losing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Yeah, but see, here's the thing about that hardcore group
that you were talking about will never leave him and
the barnacles you know, on the bottom of the whale
or whatever. Here's the deal with that. Though a lot
of them have podcasts, a lot and a lot of
them have if they don't have that, they're popular on
social media. They have platforms one way or another, and

(01:09:51):
if they didn't have one, they could go get one
untruth social So the thing is it's not just about
them and that percentage. It's about the influen that has
continued to give reasonable doubt to those that wish to
believe and given cover to those that insist on believing
that are out there that are not speaking out. That's

(01:10:11):
what's maintaining his numbers. And I think everybody is underestimating that.
I really do, because these are the people that have
stuck with him. When he said I didn't know the guy,
then video comes out, Well, I was around him some
you know, we lived in the same neighborhood. What are
you going to do? Yeah, okay, but you know, every
excuse is acceptable unless you're somebody I don't like that.

(01:10:36):
None of your excuses are acceptable. Matter of fact, there's
a cover up, and your excuses represent something else.

Speaker 4 (01:10:42):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
It's literally that weird strategy of not only am I
going to deny what you're accusing me of, but I'm
now going to accuse you of it. And I don't
know what that is called. Necessarily there's a term for
it that I can't think of, but it's a real
thing and it's working think so, you know, and maybe
not one hundred percent, maybe not even more than thirty

(01:11:04):
five percent, but it's working enough to create the coalition,
and the other part of that coalition could be I
don't like any of the stuff he does or says
but he's doing what I want, you know, the camp
that I could fall into and what.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
I said, Yes, I'm just saying I think a lot
willing to.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
But if you stitch these things together, that's a majority.
That's what's happening in my mind. And I think this again, incrementally,
it's going to get quashed and then the way the
history will be written is going to be determined by
a whole lot of things, because they're going to have
to say, look, the president said this at the end
of the day, doesn't matter if he's a pathological war

(01:11:48):
doesn't matter if he switches, you know, based on well,
why does that guy you know, literally I watched him
recently go when they say what do you think about
what this guy said? And he goes, does that guy
like me or not? Like? Literally, that's part of what
it's based on for him at that level, but it
represents something else to these other people. They're not just

(01:12:10):
against Trump, they're against America. And there were people always
like that that said you can't talk about the president.
I mean you were alive for Bush Junior, for sure.
You remember you talk about the president. Boy, you were
talking against America. What are you with the terrorists. That
is still there, except now it's what are you against Trump?

(01:12:32):
You're against America. You must be with the democrats, the terrorists,
the pedophiles. You're with that. And that's the real thing.
There are people that see that's a straight face, not like,
are you trying to make a ridiculous argument. I mean,
the weirdest thing I saw. I got a guy to
take down a YouTube video which I was totally shocked at,
and maybe it came from other places and I'm just

(01:12:53):
thinking too big about the comments I threw at him.
But this moron was trying to Edward j Epstein, the
you know, suspect critic of the Kennedy assassination, one of
the first ones who seemed to be, you know, constantly undermining,
you know, legitimate questions against the official story, even though

(01:13:14):
he was supposed to be a critic of the official story.
That guy who did a whole bunch of weird stuff,
and I'm convinced was an intelligence asset. Edward j Epstein.
This guy was wondering aloud on his YouTube channel how
that guy who wrote books on JFK still looked so
good in the nineties and the early two thousands, when

(01:13:35):
he was a sex trafficker because it's Jay Epstein, you see, right?
And I went, you know, is this a joke? Because
you are playing the straight man way too well and
you do realize these are two entirely different human beings
that simply share a last name, which I'm not saying.

(01:13:59):
I know they're related or not, but you obviously don't
know either, and you're relating this guy being a critic
of the Kennedys. How do you even get there? Is
this a joke? And a couple of days later the
YouTube video disappeared, but it was funny because he's got
a following. I'm not gonna even give his name. I

(01:14:20):
don't even remember it off the top of my head.
But either way, this guy is one of those social
commentator guys out there who is on the MAGA side
for sure, but was asking that question. So you know,
how many stupid things can they throw at the wall
before you get lost in their stupid things and forget
about the core issue? Is my major question? So you know,

(01:14:45):
here we go. How is this going to be written?
I have no idea, but I don't see it affecting
him at all, and I don't see it affecting him
in the long term or his legacy or any of that.
And I'll give you the final word on this, Pier,
because I held you a little longer, but we got disconnected,
et cetera. And next time we talk, I really want
to talk about South Park, just saying because there's there's

(01:15:07):
something weird going on there too, boys and girls, and
you know, obviously go over to Porkins Policy Review dot
com check out his archive on Epstein. You could probably
learn a hell of a lot more than you will
from reading any of the current stuff or any of
the propaganda related to it. How about the core issues
And oh, by the way, it was the alternative media
picked up on this first, the actual alternative media, and

(01:15:30):
then it was hijacked by the right wing all media,
and then it became a thing, and now it is
a mainstream I mean, you would think that people like
myself and Pierce would see this as a victory. And
there are some people out there that are claiming that,
which is funny, even though they sit in somewhere in
Central or South America and never go anywhere and seem to,

(01:15:51):
you know, be proclaimed as the greatest journalists ever. I'm
not talking about anybody in particular, am I anyway? You know,
and your book sales do well when nobody buys books.
I mean, it's just you know, it remarkable anyway, and
that was a couple of people. Now I just shot fired,
you know, warning shots at But anyway, perce, I mean,

(01:16:14):
this is not so unique, and yet maybe it is
a little and I think it's just going to disappear
down the memory hole along with everything else. I mean,
in the past less than nine months, we've had Trump
bomb Iran. Okay, literally, you know, tell people that no

(01:16:34):
matter what Israel does, it's okay, screw Ukraine if the
guy can't wear the right clothes and say thank you enough. Uh.
And all of that has happened in less than nine months,
along with the big beautiful bill, the various tariffs that
you know, he claims is making great progress for everybody,
even though your prices are still up all over the place,

(01:16:55):
but he says eggs and gas are down. All of
this has happened in nine month once. And I don't know,
I don't really see his support wavering. Matter of fact,
you know, sitting here in Georgia, and maybe it's because
I am in a truly red state. You know, even
though people can play bulled, Lada's not read road blueoo Democrats,

(01:17:16):
And yet that doesn't account for the whole rest of
the state that is controlled top to bottom by the GOP.
But you know, maybe it's just because I'm sitting here,
and I'm even sitting in an allegedly liberal area. They're
all for everything he's doing. And they've announced that recently
we're going to see more ICE activity here, just like
in Los Angeles and everywhere else. Get ready for that

(01:17:38):
ice is going to be in your face in your
community locally. They're making sure to let us know that,
you know, same time they're going to Chicago and everywhere else.
That couldn't be a coordinated agenda, couldn't. Anyway, I don't
even know of that many, you know, people that could
even be potentially illegals around here. There are a handful,
But you know, Georgia I don't think is the hottest
bed of it. But maybe it's. Maybe maybe I'm wrong,

(01:18:01):
and they'll pull out another one hundred thousand from here, Pierce,
But in real time, I think we're losing the thread
on this and we're gonna lose the fight and they're
going to bury something that you know, people like you
and me said should be brought to the light, and
they brought it to the light. But now they're going
to pull the rug right out from under the lamp.

(01:18:23):
I think, But maybe I'm wrong. What's what's your way
of closing this one out?

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
Well? I think maybe I'm just trying to be more
optimistic in a very pessimistic and sort of negative environment
that we all find ourselves in. But and I think
that what you're saying is is absolutely true and valid,
and I think that it can certainly go that way.

(01:18:49):
But I still tend to maintain some hope that this
story is too difficult to control, and I think that
there will be more that will come out. It's not
going to be I think what we all are hoping for.
You know, there's no client list, there's a smoking gun,

(01:19:12):
something like that video evidence. But I don't think it's
going to completely go away. I think it's going to
make it harder just in a you know, on a
kind of like personal level for him. I don't know
that it's in an impact policy, but yeah, I don't know.
I think I'm just I just tend to be a
little bit more optimistic. Maybe I don't know if that's

(01:19:33):
quite the right word regarding this, but I think that
I think the fact that it's even still an issue
now it is evidence of the power that it has.
And I think that while certainly his most ardent devotees

(01:19:55):
are have really demonstrated the lengths they're willing to go,
oh I'm not, I do wonder if they're I mean,
Jeffree's memoir is going to be coming out soon. Her
family has been, you know, speaking out a lot about
this and speaking out about these weird meetings with Maxwell

(01:20:18):
and others, and I do I do wonder if at
some point there will be you know, enough pressure there
will become this sort of you know, the these sort
of drips and drabs that are coming. There will be
enough that more will begin to come out, and it
will be really hard to control the narrative and and

(01:20:42):
of course they will probably just lie, deny it was
the other people, It wasn't me, This is all fabricated.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
But I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
For me, I think there there might be a breaking
point where where people are because you know, I think
that sometimes it's it's really easy to kind of view
this world we live in where you know, all of
his supporters are cult members, and cult members have no
free will. They're completely you know, we use this term

(01:21:12):
like brainwashed all the time. Other brainwashed. You can't you
can't undo that. You know, they're crazy, my you know,
friends and relatives and all that. You know, they've completely
gone over and I can't speak to them. And so
and I think that there's no cult that that operates
like that. There's that's impossible. You cannot control people to

(01:21:34):
that degree every single day of their life. I mean,
even people deep in high control groups always have doubts.
That's you know, I mean that that's that's kind of
like that that that can be part of the kind
of pull and push and the control, but there's always doubts.

(01:21:55):
And I think that we don't know the level to which.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
This can be.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
Pushed to where these people are going to really begin
to doubt, you know, the leader, the guru. So I
don't know, maybe that is is being a little bit
too optimistic, but that's that's just how I view this.
I I tend to think that there is an upper
limit to this. And you know, you can't fool all

(01:22:25):
the people all the time. That's that's sort of how
I tend to look at this, but I might be
completely wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:22:32):
Well, you know, again, it's still my basic counterpoint. You
don't have to pool all the people, you know, all
you have to do is have a Any revolution is
not based on a majority. You know, a lot of
people think that revolutions changes for the better or for
the worse, or based on a majority of people decide No,

(01:22:52):
there's a small minority that sticks to it, and through fear,
they have a bubble of people they influence. Through convenience,
they have a bubble of people they influence. And that's
how that majority is built. Not all for the core
of the people that believe it, but you know, the
people that are bending their knees in the corporate world,

(01:23:14):
the people that are literally making the payments to the
Trump Presidential Library, the people that are paying the fines
and turning around because they want to be able to
sell their company, the people that are et cetera. This
is what we're at. You know, even the you know,
the supported comedians are honest to this and that they're
doing a Saudi Arabian event. Now you know what I'm saying,

(01:23:35):
This is transactional and reveals the real ugly about how
a lot of people don't have principles, but they will
act like they do, you know, and they're just looking
for a new leader. That's all they're ever doing. So
this is one of the time and I think somebody

(01:23:58):
who is managing this for him, not him directly, I
mean he knows how to, you know, just act as though.
I mean, it's that that guy that gets away with it.
You ever see somebody in a store, in a movie
theater or whatever who gets away with doing something and
you literally look at it and you go, how the

(01:24:18):
hell did that happen? One hundred people could have tried
that and would have never gotten away with it. You know,
the guy that gets his food free at the restaurant
because he made the right complaint to the right person,
and consistently, that guy does that because that's how he lives.
You know, the guy that paid seventy five percent of

(01:24:40):
what he could or sixty percent of what he had
to to get work done, and then turned around and
failed to finish paying it off and then said sue
me and then paid, you know, fifteen percent more of
what he should have paid initially. He ends up with
a fifteen percent discount across the board on the whole project.

(01:25:01):
And I am talking about Trump and I am talking
about Atlantic City. Now right, this is the way it's done.
He's got a discount that he builds in through resistance,
and fine, take me to court. I got all kinds
of lawsuits. I don't care. I got lawyers that are
on the car all the time. I don't pay them either.
You know, it is amazing. So I don't know. I

(01:25:24):
think that we weren't all prepared for this, the majority
of us. So anyway, maybe I'm the pessimist and Pierce
is the optimist. Judge for yourselves, but go to Porkins
Policy review dot com. Check out Pierce. I don't know
how much you tweet anymore, but maybe I'll put your
Twitter profile link in the show notes. Anyway, you know,

(01:25:45):
contact Piers, question them, ask him, you know, whatever it
is you want to do. He'll handle it his way.
And we haven't seen any new podcasts lately, but life
sometimes gets in the way, and I'm kind of glad
it has for you actually, So you know, I hope

(01:26:05):
that you have enjoyed these guys and appears anything you
want to say in closing. Ope, I guess I either
lost them or something. All right, revel like sorry travel like,
oh okay, I paused my music. Sorry you weren't there.

(01:26:26):
I thought maybe I lost you.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
No, I just I just muted my microphone for some reason.
So no, I didn't know. Nothing much else to add
just other than this. I just am fascinated that this
story has taken on the scope that it has, and
it is just really it's amazing that something that was

(01:26:49):
so kind of niche to me and other people and now,
you know, when you're like I was sitting on the
train the other day and like looked over and it's
someone I was like watching some stupid YouTube, you know,
all media influencer podcast talking about Epstein and I did.

(01:27:10):
That is just amazing. The reach that this story has
continue to have. And I think it's just because it's
such a fascinating story. And again, as I said, I
think it's really hard to control it. So yeah, I
would just continue to kind of to look at it,
and yeah, and hopefully I might have some stuff on
this on my show, some new material as well.

Speaker 2 (01:27:32):
Excellent. Look, you know, you know you've crossed over when
we went from four or five podcasters literally in the
English speaking world talking about this some years back to
you know. Now it's everywhere and literally you can find
Epstein icebergs on YouTube. If you don't know what an
iceberg is, go check it out. It's pretty funny to me.

(01:27:53):
I actually do watch the icebergs to see what it
is people think are important. The iceberg concept that kills me.
But anyway, we have transitioned, that's for sure. But you know,
just like people question other transitions, is it a good one? Anyway?
That's up to you guys. Like I said, and like

(01:28:15):
I said before Pierson, I might have different opinions about this,
but I think both of us are a little concerned
about the future of it one way or another. And
maybe you will be too, but then again, maybe not.
I guess we'll have to see. Amili o'celly, all of
you are the effect. Thanks Sage.

Speaker 7 (01:28:36):
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Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
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(01:29:22):
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Speaker 1 (01:30:11):
Sush

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