Jesse P. Pollack: The Acid King ( Ricky Kasso )

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You never get radio.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's the Opera Report, joined digital fileensopher investigator in PI
at Operaan for an in depth discussion of conspiracy theories,
strategy of Blue World Order resistance, I fell court cases
in the news, and interviews with expert guests and authors
of these topics and more.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
It's the Opera Report. Hey no, you're is an investigator Upperman.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
Okay, welcome to the Operaman Report. I'm your host, private
investigator at Opperman and this show is brought to you
by none other than pscoco dot com, Phoebe Side's chocolate website.
Go to pscoco dot com psc oc o a dot
com and you get all kinds of silky smooth chocolates,
pancake pancake cake pixies, brownie mixes, martini mixes, sauces, all

(01:04):
kinds of wonderful stuff there at pscoco dot com. And
not only that too, but you can also go into
the cocoa business with Phoebe Sad. You can become like
her partner, her or independent distributor and you can all
be selling this uh the Chocolate Exchange and formerly Dove
Chocolate Discoveries but now known as the Chocolate Exchange. So
you go to pscoco dot com and then you click

(01:25):
on the shop now button and it will take you
to the wonderful site with all their menus and all
their wonderful chocolates and all kinds of stuff like that. Also,
don't forget email revealer dot com. That's where you can
get a copy of my book How to Become a
Successful Private Investigator. I'll autograph the book for you and
I'll mail it to you ultimately. And then also all
kinds of services we have for you on there. You
want to catch your spouse cheating online, you give us

(01:46):
their email address with trace it back to online dating
websites and catch mini act. Okay, okay, we got today.
Fascinating guy. He became recommended to us by our buddy
over there, a custodian of records. Shout out to my
buddyo o there, he said, Ed. Ed's always been talking
about doing a show about Ricky Casso, the Acid King.

(02:08):
And we have Jesse P. Pollack, who wrote the book
The Acid King. I don't think the book is even
out yet, but it's on the way out. And he's
also the author of another book called Death on the
Devil's Teeth. The Strange murder that shocks suburban New Jersey.
Great stuff. This is kind of our stuff. People love
this kind of stuff. So we have Jesse Pollock on
the show. Jesse, are you there?

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me?

Speaker 4 (02:30):
I hear you really good? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Awesome? Great.

Speaker 5 (02:33):
That means that this little Samsung microphone I got is
get me my money's worth.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Glad to hear it.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
Oh yeah, I can hear a pin drop over there.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
I'll be sure not to drop that, not again.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
Hurting my ears. Jesse, tell us about yourself, Jesse, Who
is Jesse Pollack? What do we need to know about you?

Speaker 1 (02:53):
You're the investigator, though, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 5 (02:57):
Basically, I get Oh God, where to star, especially coming
up with this weird stuff. I was born and raised
in the Garden state of New Jersey, and for the
last two decades now I have been a contributing writer
and a correspondent for Weird New Jersey magazine. And even
if you do not live in New Jersey or the

(03:18):
surrounding area, I cannot highly recommend this magazine enough. Everything
from true crime, personalized property, strange history, UFO sitings, cryptozoology.
If you're into weird stuff, weird. New Jersey is where
it's at. You can get online. Each issue is about
seven dollars including shipping, and if you live in New Jersey,

(03:41):
it's I think it's pretty much everywhere books are sold.
Barnes and Noble has books a million. Shout out to
Vintage Vinyl and Ford's.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
So yeah. I kind of got my start writing by.

Speaker 5 (03:54):
Doing these little articles for the magazine, which I just
loved as a reader. And then a few years back
I kind of went down the rabbit hole with a
case that where New Jersey started reporting on in the
late nineties. Somewhere around nineteen ninety eight, the magazine's editors,

(04:15):
Mark Morana Mark Skerman started getting a series of bizarre,
anonymous letters they had recently reported on a patch of
woods in central New Jersey known as the watch On Reservation.
And not to sound like too much out of a
horror movie or anything, but the watch Reservation is a
patch of sacred Indian land that is now sort of

(04:37):
like a state park and it's just rife with accounts
of ghosts, devil worshipers. There was a very famous suicide
that happened there in nineteen seventy five. So where New
Jersey started reporting on it, and then all these letters
started coming in saying like, oh, yeah, you know, you're

(04:58):
just scratching the surface. Remember when I was a kid
in the seventies, there was a girl who was found
dead like a mile or two away, and she was
a ritual Satanic sacrifice or a witch coven got her.
It was always one or the other. So at first,
the Marks kind of thought it was a bit of
an urban legend, like, oh, you know, you know, girl

(05:21):
found dead in the woods. You know, Satanist did it.
You know, I think every kind of suburban town has
an urban legend like that. But then they were publishing
these anonymous letters in the Weird Male section of the magazine,
and then more and more started coming in saying, oh,
I remember that too. Her name was Jeanette de Palma
and she was found on an altar.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
So now the Marks had a name.

Speaker 5 (05:46):
So they started going back in the newspaper archives and
they eventually found out that, yes, this was a thing.
In September nineteen seventy two, this girl's body was found
in a rock quarry and she was only found because
a dog brought home a piece of her arm. So

(06:06):
very you know, an incredibly eerie start to an already
strange case, and a long story short, they were never
They were never able to find out how she died.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Who killed her.

Speaker 5 (06:18):
The best they can figure is she was strangled, and
the reports coming from the crime scene at the time
were that she was found surrounded by quote unquote occult objects.
So of course this is the proto satanic panic, and
the rumor mill went wild. It was front page news

(06:39):
for two weeks in the New Jersey, New York area,
and then with no leads coming up, it just died out.
So fast forward thirty forty years later, with weird New
Jersey reporting on it. I said to Mark Moran, I said, hey,
have you heard any developments on this since you guys
started reporting on it years ago?

Speaker 1 (07:01):
And he goes, no, we haven't really heard anything.

Speaker 5 (07:04):
And me, I'm a voracious reader of true crime and history,
and it was kind of almost a disappointment to me
on a personal level because I was like, I would
really love to know more about this case. I'd love
to read a good book about this case, and if
no one's written one, I guess we should do it.
So Mark and I teamed up and for three years

(07:24):
We hunted down every lead we could, every anonymous piece
of mail, every microfilm role, anything we could get to
try and give an answer to this very strange murder.
And I think we've come very very close to it.
And the result of that investigation is the book that

(07:46):
we released in twenty fifteen called Death on the Devil's Teeth.

Speaker 4 (07:51):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting when I looked up Janet
the Palm, most of the story here talks about we're
in New Jersey magazine and stuff like that in your book,
So I guess you can as we have a real
catalyst here and getting this story back into the.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
News, well, it was a weird thing.

Speaker 5 (08:07):
Unlike the Casso case, which which as you and maybe
some of your listeners know, was.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Worldwide news for weeks.

Speaker 5 (08:14):
I mean that was really a big bang of the
satanic panic that we all knew in the eighties and
the nineties. The DiPalma case, like I said, was about
front page news for two weeks and then just died out.
No one wanted to talk about it anymore. The cops
wouldn't report on it, the newspapers had nothing, The family
stopped giving interviews, and if you talk to anyone in Springfield,

(08:36):
New Jersey, where this occurred.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Oh, I don't want to talk about that. No, we
need let it lie. And so.

Speaker 5 (08:45):
When we first started it, yeah, the only you could
if you googled her name, the only thing that would
come up was the word New Jersey page for it.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
So we literally had to start from scratch.

Speaker 5 (08:54):
I mean, it's it's funny and this digital era, everyone
is just like, oh, yeah, you know, I'll Google it,
or you know, I'll find you know, something on ancestry
dot com or some newspaper thing. But we had to
go literally back to analog, going to these dusty shelves
and libraries all across New Jersey, grabbing microfilm reels and
trying to find the original articles. And it just it

(09:17):
was real hands on work that I am especially proud
of Mark and I for doing because it was a
real labor of love. We really wanted this story to
get out there. We felt it had been suppressed for
so long, and you know, hopefully we brought some answers
to people that were looking for them.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
Did you get a chance to talk to her parents?
And this this somebody is of godpastor who came up
with these theories?

Speaker 5 (09:41):
Well, her parents have since passed away, but we spoke
with three of her sisters, a couple nieces and nephews
who were all, by and large, very very much supportive,
gave us hours and hours of interviews, worked with us
pretty much the whole way through, And yes we did.
The pastor that helped coin a lot of these these

(10:05):
rumors that were going around in like the New York
Daily News in the post, his name was Pastor Tate,
an evangelical preacher based in Elizabeth, New Jersey.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
It's a strange facet of the case.

Speaker 5 (10:18):
And I know I sound like a broken record there,
but you just keep peeling back all these layers and
it's okay.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Half of the.

Speaker 5 (10:26):
People that knew her say, oh, you know, she was
this wild child, party girl, you know, summer a love man,
and the other half will tell you no, she was
a pious and devout Christian who was targeted by Satanists
because of her devotion to her faith and she was
sacrificed because of it. And the bulk of that theory
came from that pastor. And the very weird thing about

(10:52):
that is when we tracked him down in twenty twelve,
he seemed to have very little memory of telling the
news papers that he did a complete one point eighty
on the phone with Mark and I are saying, oh no, no,
she was rebellious. She was reading a book on Satanism,
and she got caught up in this group meeting up
in the watch Young reservation, which kind of brought everything

(11:16):
back full circle. You know, our knowledge of the case
came through these letters about the Watchung reservation, and now
here we have her pastor telling us that she herself
was taking part in Satanic rituals in that patch of woods.
So trying, let alone, trying to find out who killed her,
trying to find the real Jeanette to Palma became an

(11:37):
adventure in and of itself.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
Now it says that she was It was sixteen years old,
and the only discovered the body because the dog found
a piece of a body and arm. Did her parents
report her missing? How long was she reported missing?

Speaker 5 (11:51):
She was reported missing almost immediately Jeanette, as you mention,
she was found on September nineteenth, nineteen seventy two, but
she'd actually gone missing on August seventh. She left her
home that day, telling her parents, I'm going to go
hop on a train and go see a friend of
mine in Berkeley Heights. While she never made it to

(12:12):
the train station, never made it to her friend's house.
She was never seen again. So that night the parents
called the Springfield Police Department and said, our daughter is missing.
And they said, oh yeah, you're gonna have to wait
twenty four hours to file a formal report. She could
just be a runaway. So they were shocked. They were horrified.

(12:33):
They thought, you know, you report a kid missing, you know,
the cops go out and find him right away. But
you know, there was nothing they could do, so they
waited the standard twenty four hours. They reported her missing
the next day, and from the mouths of the retired
officers themselves who we interviewed, we interviewed most of the
ones that are still alive, and they said we didn't

(12:54):
bother looking for She had a reputation as a partier.
She was also a teenager. You know, teenagers just run away.
We just did not put the manpower into it.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yeah, also too in nineteen seventy two. You got to remember,
the drinking age was eighteen, so sixteen year olds. You know,
I was sixteen year old. I would be in bars
at sixteen, you know, So it was like a whole
different world back in those days. How old are you?

Speaker 5 (13:18):
I am going to be twenty nine, kid? I can't,
So they keep telling me. I don't feel like one though.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
This this work ages you.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
Yeah, I know it does, because you got a podcast too, right,
And tell me about your podcast real quick and we'll
get back to the story.

Speaker 5 (13:34):
Well, I host too, well, I host one and I
co host the other. The first one that I host
is called the Devil's Teeth Podcast. If you're if you
come away from this interview tonight and you want to
read more about this case, but you don't want to
wait for the book to be shipped to you, or
you don't have a kindle, go over to Twitter. Go
to twitter dot com slash Devil's Teeth Pod, p O

(13:56):
d all one word And I've got a podcast all
of this case, and it's a narrative podcast. I narrate it,
and I utilize the interview tapes that myself and Mark
Moran recorded throughout the course of our investigation, so the
people that were there are telling you the story alongside me.
It's so it's it's almost like an interactive experience. So

(14:19):
go over there and listen to that, and I co
host another podcast, which is it's kind of like a
satirical I don't want to say lighthearted because it's definitely
not safe for work. We're from New Jersey, most of
us we have potty mouths. But it's called Podcast twelve
eighty nine one two eight nine, and we basically look

(14:40):
at the most bizarre UFO reports, conspiracy theories, ghost sightings, cryptids,
stuff like that, and we just kind of lampoon them,
We tear them, We tear them to shreds as only
a bunch of twenty something nerds can. And you can
find us at Twitter dot com. Slash Podcast twelve eighty nine.
We talk about everything from Bigfoot to D. B.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Cooper.

Speaker 4 (15:01):
Excellent. But now with this Devil's Teeth podcast, you have
enough content to do a weekly show about just this topic.

Speaker 5 (15:08):
It started out as weekly, but then bringing everything kind
of back to the beginning again just as I started.
It was when I got the phone call to do
the Ricky Casso books. So now it's it's kind of
been intermittent. It's going to start back up again in
a few weeks now because I'm actually scheduled to hand
in the manuscript in uh wow, about three weeks.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Actually, God, it's really creeping up on me.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
I get going on that now.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
A word yet, why do they.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
Call it devil's teeth? Is that what this place is
called a devil's teeth?

Speaker 5 (15:42):
Yeah, that's another and you're gonna hear this word a lot.
It's another strange aspect of the depaumacase. This girl was
found lying on top of a cliff that had been
known for at least fifty years as the Devil's Teeth.
And the reason why this cliff was known as that
is because if you're standing on the other side the

(16:04):
area where she was, she was right up against the
cliff edge. So you keep going, it's a straight drop
about forty feet to the quarry floor. Now, if you're
standing on that quarry floor and you're looking up at
this this cliff, it there's a cover. There's a picture
of it on the cover of our book. It's chilling.
It looks like an upside down skull, and it looked

(16:25):
even more like that during the time that she was
found because the rock quarry was owned by the Houdai
Materials Company and they used to deposit their waiste rock
onto the ridge of this u of this cliff top,
so it looked like a row of teeth on top
of this upside down skull. It's it's it's it's just

(16:47):
one of these weird things. It's like, Okay, this girl
is found, you know, because a lot of people will say, oh, well,
how do you know it was the murder? How do
you know she didn't just overdose up there or you know,
commit suicide, and it would just be too coincidentally. You know,
she's found on top of this cliff known to locals
for decades as the Devil's Teeth, you know, only a

(17:07):
mile away from this supposed hot spot of devil worshippers
in witchcuvens.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
It's you couldn't make.

Speaker 5 (17:14):
This stuff up. The best Hollywood screenwriter could not come
up with this.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
Now, you said that there there were satanic items. What
kind of items were found around the body?

Speaker 1 (17:23):
It depends on who you ask.

Speaker 5 (17:25):
We've heard everything from The first officer on the scene
told Mark and I that it was a large cross
that was made out of tree branches and sticks up
by the head of the body, and that the head,
which was little more than a skull, she had been
laying there during a very very hot summer for six weeks.
Around her skull was an arrangement of little stones in

(17:48):
the shape of the semi circle that he told us resembled,
you know, to him, it looked like a halo, which
is weird because the papers were saying, oh, you know,
a cult object, satanic stuff, and it was more Judeo
Christian symbols. Other variants of the crime scene that day
was supposedly there were logs around the body in the

(18:09):
shape of a coffin, and inside this coffin shape perimeter
were a bunch of smaller crosses made out of twigs
and stuff. The other more fantastical things that we've heard.
We got anonymous letters saying that there were dead animals
that were strewn about around her. Some of them were
supposedly in jars, other of them were hanging by rope

(18:31):
from trees. The cops that we spoke to say they
saw nothing like that, but you never know, I mean,
you know, so much time had passed and if not
to sound like you know too much like Jesse Ventura,
like it's a conspiracy. But if these people, you know,
don't want this hardcore gossip getting out there about cults,
you know of course, maybe they'll tell some people like, oh, no,

(18:54):
we didn't see anything like that, because you never know.
We never got a hold of the crime scene photos,
which is a whole other rabbit hole. But long story short,
the Springfield Police and the Union County Prosecutor's office absolutely
refused to let us look at anything from the file.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Not a peep.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
Really from a case from nineteen seventy two.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Absolutely nothing.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
Really.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
We said, you know, you can pick what we can
look at, will come in person, so you don't have
to scan it, so it won't leak, you know, we'll
give you the information that we had, will trade. Obviously
you'll want this information. And they said, nope, sorry, it's
an open case. Can't comment, can't show you nothing fascinating.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
Okay, So, now, did you get a chance to talk
off the record to any of the cops who worked
on the case, any of those old detectives.

Speaker 5 (19:38):
Yeah, we spoke to the officer that was first on
the scene, his partner, a couple people in the detective
bureau who were not on the scene, but we're coordinating
with the patrol officer, stuff like that. On one of
the unfortunate things was the lead detective on the case
a gentleman by the name of Sam Calabrese. He was

(20:00):
very dodgy when we asked him, like, hey, we understand
you were the lead investigator.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Could we interview you on or off the record? And
he sent us.

Speaker 5 (20:09):
An email reply saying, yeah, I was the detective. I'll
speak to you, but only after you tell me what
questions you're going to ask me, and I'm not going
to allow you to record it. So we said, okay,
you know it's you know sometimes when you're working in journalism,
you have to do that. And so we sent him
a list of the questions along with assurances that we

(20:30):
would not record him, asked him when and where he
wanted to meet, and he just stopped replying. We kept
on him, sending him an email and a letter once
every like six months for the next two years until
he died, taking whatever he knew about the case with him.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
It was.

Speaker 5 (20:46):
It was very frustrating. We were really open to talk
to him.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
Now, these rumors of a cult, right, was this, like
you said, yeah, letters to the magazine there, the weird
New Jersey magazine. Now were they describing like a ragtag
bunch of kids, kind of like the Ricky casto kind
of cult, rag tag acid kids, you know, out there
drinking beer and doing wackiness. Or was this more of

(21:11):
an organized cult like you hear about with a Son
of Sam case where they had millionaires and very powerful people,
and with the Process Church kind of cult. What kind
of cult were they talking about.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
I think it was somewhere a little more along the.

Speaker 5 (21:26):
Lines of the Ricky Casso quote unquote cult in Northport, basically,
because everyone sort of had their own vision of it,
Like we always spoke to one or two people that
actually claimed to have seen these people in action, like
and it's not like that these were these were bs
reports that these were phantom cult members. The cops were

(21:48):
finding stuff in this patch of woods all the time,
bowls of blood, animals torn apart, stuff like this. There
were police reports to back this stuff up. It wasn't
just suburban panic. But as far as it being anything
you know, shadowy, like the Bilderberg Group or anything like that,
it wasn't that. It was more I think that they

(22:08):
were afraid that the local teenagers had gotten together and
formed something along the lines of what the New York
Daily News and the New York Post thought that the
Knights of the Black Circle were about in the Castle case,
which we'll get to later. Basically teenage kids robes, chanting,

(22:29):
reading from the Satanic Bible and sacrificing animals and ultimately
later people. You know, it was kids, but they thought
they were organized and this they all told me, like,
this was the first time we started locking our doors.
I mean, what's scarier to a bunch of middle aged,
average suburban parents than the idea of their children's peers,

(22:50):
or worse, their own child falling hostage to the literal
devil and worrying about like who are they going to
go for next? Are they going to come for me?
So it was, it was. It was a shocking time.
It was the end of innocence for a lot of people.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
Yeah, it was. Yeah, I was seventy two. I guess
it was about like the fifth sixth grade, and it
was a scary time. You had all that Manson stuff
going on, and you know, and these hippie kids that
they're long hair, and you know, it was all new.
It was you know, it was scary stuff. You know,
it's just old, brand new, and you heard about LSD
and all its kind of so it was kind of
it was a scary time. I lived in the Bronx

(23:27):
at that time. Then we moved to Stanton Island later
because we talked a little bit.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Were you still in the Bronx when Old Son of
Sam came about?

Speaker 4 (23:34):
Oh yeah absolutely, Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (23:38):
We'll have to pick your brain about that sometime. I
bet you've got some stories there.

Speaker 4 (23:42):
Well, we do a bunch of shows about Son of
Sam and the Processed Church, and I was associated with
Morey Terry had on Mike Cadella.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
Yeah, we just had a Mike Cadella who was the
cop who reopened the case and then they shut them down.
They told them to shut down the case.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
I heard about that, Yeah, and it is a very
interesting thing.

Speaker 5 (24:01):
Not to go down a whole other tangent with that,
but I think the biggest smoking gun in that case
in my opinion, As you know, and I'm not one
hundred percent well read on this case, but I know
enough about it to go. I think it's very interesting
that David Berkowitz does not match any of the witness
descriptions of what the Son of Sam looked like from
the people that survived. Oh you look at all those
witness sketches and almost like five different people and Berkowitz

(24:24):
is none of them.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Oh yeah, yeah, there's a there's a wealth of information
in that case. Now back to this this girl here,
I got her name, and what's this.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Jeanette?

Speaker 4 (24:36):
Jeannette to Palma right now. She wants to have like
a best friend or a boyfriend or something like that.
Will those people contact them talk to U.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
We spoke with her best friend.

Speaker 5 (24:45):
The best friend was actually the girl she was going
to go see that day, and she is just as
confused as the rest. I mean, you know, she said
that she was coming over that day. She did mention
to us that she knew that Jette lied to her parents.
Jeanette told her parents that she was gonna hop a
train over to Berkeley Heights to met her there. But

(25:07):
Gail said, well, you know, she told her parents not
not to worry, but she was hitchhiking over. So that
was another aspect to the story of Okay, well, now
we have a scenario where because one of the big
things was how did she get in the woods? You know,
because this area of woods where she was found near
the quarry was the complete opposite direction of Berkeley Heights.

(25:30):
She would have no business being over there, for she
was trying to get to her friend's house. So, now
with the revelation of she was hitchhiking that day when
we knew that, there was now the possibility that she
was picked up by someone with.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Ulterior motives? Shall we say that's interesting?

Speaker 4 (25:46):
Now, let's say she was picked up in a car
hitchhiking and then the guy drove over to this devil's teeth.
How far would they have to walk from the nearest
parking spot to get over to that location.

Speaker 5 (25:58):
Well, that's the thing, It wouldn't have been something like that.
The side that her body was found on is off
of a two lane blacktop leading all the way up
the hill in Springfield to her neighborhood. There's no parking
lot on that side, and the parking lot on the
other side, the actual operational quarry side, is gated off. So,
without giving too much of that book away, we don't

(26:24):
think that she was there willingly. We think that something
may have happened in the car that ended up with
her being on that cliff.

Speaker 4 (26:34):
Okay, and now do you have any suspects in my
actual physical suspects with names they think might be behind us?

Speaker 5 (26:41):
Mark and I identified three people in our book that
we feel are the best candidates for being responsible for
the death of Jeanette to Palma. To be truthful under oath,
I am. I am on the fence between two of them.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
And.

Speaker 5 (27:02):
I would have been one hundred percent for one of
them if Mark and I did not make a discovery
very actually very late in the writing of the book.
If we had made this discovery a month later, it
would have never ended up in it. But it just
kind of threw everything up into arms where we were
just like, uh, okay, so now what it's it's you.

(27:24):
You answer one question in that case and five more
open up. But if there is any solution to that
unsolved cold case, I believe it lies with one of
those three people that we identified.

Speaker 4 (27:37):
What led you to those three people, and then ultimately
the one person that you have a strong suspicion on.

Speaker 6 (27:44):
Well.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
One of the things that went incredibly unreported in this
case was Jeanette de Palmel was not the only girl
to go missing in the area at that time and
later turn up dead. There was a young woman named
Joan Kramer who was abducted while hitchhiking only a week
after Jeanette vanished and only six miles away in South Orange,

(28:08):
she was picked up while.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Hitchhiking in the middle of the night.

Speaker 5 (28:11):
She had just gotten into an argument with her boyfriend,
stormed out of the house and went downtown, got into
a gentleman's car. Car drove off, and she was found
two weeks later, very similar to Jeanette, in a wooded area,
lying face down. There was a souvenir taken from the
body which matched a souvenir taken from Jeanette, and the

(28:32):
doctor's the best guess they could make was that because
there was also decomposition, the best guess the doctors could
make was that she had been strangled. Now, because especially
back then, police departments do not necessarily coordinate well with
each other, it kind of went unreported, save for one
or two tiny articles in the I believe it was

(28:54):
the Newark Star Ledger that reported it, saying, by the way,
another young woman was found dead in the same area,
Joan Kramer of South Orange, and if you have any tips,
call this special tip line at the Prosecutor's office. So
I started diving down the rabbit hole of the Kramer case,
which is also technically an unsolved case, and it's technically unsolved.

(29:17):
Because of this, a guy was arrested for the murder.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
In nineteen I believe he yes.

Speaker 5 (29:24):
He was arrested in January seventy five and his name
was Otto Nilsson. He was a disgraced alcoholic accountant that
was living in Maple Wood, which is the next town
over from South Orange. Basically, a witness put him at
the scene said I saw the Kramer girl get into
this guy's car, and the cops did a little bit

(29:44):
more investigating and eventually got a arrest warrant, so they
arrested him in January seventy five.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
They put him on trial in I Believe July.

Speaker 5 (29:56):
It's funny once you start another book, you start the
date starting to become fuzzy. I think probably should have
brought a copy in here. But long story short, the
jury didn't feel that, you know, one eyewitness saying yeah,
I saw him driving the car she got into was
enough to pin a murder wrap on this guy. So
they let him go. But the story with him did
not end there. He later was committed for taking a

(30:20):
rifle into the veterans hospital nearby and holding two doctors hostage.
So that was the first big suspect there. There was
also another person that Mark and I were informed of.
How would I, I don't know if groundskeeper is the

(30:40):
right word. He was a guy that occasionally caddied at
the golf course that's across the road from the quarry
where DePalma was found. There was a guy named Red Keir.
We don't know if Red was his proper name or
a nickname, but everyone just knew him.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
As Baltis roll Read.

Speaker 5 (30:57):
He worked at the golf course, the famous ball this
World golf course in Springfield. And what we were told
by the police was, oh, yeah, we got this tip
that this this caddy was living in the woods back there.
He would he would get up in the morning, wash
himself in the stream caddy at the golf course and
then come back and bury his money and had like

(31:18):
a little like a shack made out of like aated
tin sheet, and he was cooking with pots and pans
over fire. Stuff like that. Very very weird character. And
we were told that when the Springfield Police Department was
made aware of his existence, that they went back to

(31:39):
that area to try and interview and they found that
his camp had been completely deserted.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
They interviewed him. They eventually let him go for a very.

Speaker 5 (31:49):
Stupid reason that we get into in the book, and.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
We were never able to find him.

Speaker 5 (31:57):
We think we know what happened to him, but it's
kind of hard when you don't even know if that's
the guy's real name or the real spelling it's it was.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
It was a very very.

Speaker 5 (32:06):
Difficult avenue to go down, but we exhausted it as
best as we could.

Speaker 4 (32:11):
Oh yeah, if you're looking for a guy in a
tin shack to cooking outside over an open fire, that's
that's that's a good locate for you. That's a nice
little skip.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Now what about a ghost basically.

Speaker 4 (32:22):
Yeah, you know, and plus if it's a common name,
god forbid. But oh yeah, unless he has a criminal record. Now,
what about this guy read this homeless guy?

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Well, that was the thing with him. We had heard
rumors that he supposedly had family down in Georgia. We
tried tracking him down there, but unfortunately Kire is a
very very common name down there.

Speaker 5 (32:43):
We checked newspaper archives for any mention of him, like
if he had gotten picked up by the police or
anything like that. We submitted Freedom of Information Act requests
to the county cops to see if they ever arrested
him on anything. They went ignored. It was just it
was almost a blind ally with him. We think we
I'll put it to you this way. We don't believe

(33:04):
that he is still living, and we get into that
end of the book, which is another strange mystery. More
gossip from X cops. I mean, that is one of
the I don't want to call it a perk, but
it's one of the things that Mark and I get
to do with our job that is a very interesting thing.
We get to interview a lot of ex law enforcement
officers and I tell you what, You'll never get a

(33:27):
better story from any of them because they're bored. They
miss the glory days, and they want to tell you
all about the crazy stuff that went down.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
So we have.

Speaker 5 (33:36):
Tapes, hours and hours and hours of the retired investigator
on this case just spilling the beans on all of it.
And it was a huge help because if you don't
have the case file in front of you, well, guess what,
You're gonna have to go and make a case file
of your own. So you talk to the family, you
talk to the cops who originally did it, and you
try to piece all of these factions together to try

(34:00):
I make a coherent story.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Yeah, the book we're talking about is Death on Devil's Teeth,
the strange murder that shock suburban New Jersey and got
great reviews on Amazon, and there's a link. I put
the link up on the Opperman Report on Facebook and
stuff like that, and it already sold a couple of
books today. And he sold four books before the show
even aired. So I saw you. You're doing okay there.

Speaker 5 (34:22):
Now I gotta I gotta tell you not to pander
or anything. But I have the greatest readers on planet Earth.
I have the most supportive friends. The great thing that
really gave us a lot of motivation and inertia with
writing about the DePaul mccase was, you know Mark and

(34:43):
Mark and Mark the Mark Miranda Mark Skerman of We're
New Jersey had been writing about this case since nineteen
ninety eight, and Moran and I joined forces in twenty twelve.
So you had this this reader base where New Jersey
as over one hundred thousand subscribers on Facebook alone. You
know who knows how many magazine subscriptions. But all of

(35:05):
these people were waiting. They've been following the case too, like,
this is arguably the most unsettling thing that they had
reported on. And so we had all these people that
were behind us. They were like, go get the information.
Let's let's see if we can solve this together. And
we had a lot of subscribers and readers of the

(35:26):
magazine offer help, whether it be oh, well, I could
put you in touch with someone who knew the cops
back then, or yeah, I knew the family from down
the block. Yeah, So it was it was almost a
group effort. It was great having all of these people
cheering us on and helping us out with our research.
And then when the book came out, I mean, how

(35:47):
many times does a first book have a built in audience.
So I mean to what we're new Jersey lovingly refers
to as the cult of the letter senders. I bow
to you Wall, thank you very very much from the
bottom of my heart.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
And speaking of those letters, are the letters in the book?

Speaker 1 (36:04):
M hm? Those?

Speaker 4 (36:06):
Oh yeah?

Speaker 5 (36:06):
And they are weird, Yeah, okay, some of them are
are are blood curdling, Some of them are only a
sentence long. Others go on for nine pages and are
completely nonsensical. But there is a story there. There is
this strange thing of this event that united all of
these people to go, I have to tell this magazine

(36:28):
what I think happened. But these people were so afraid
of whatever repercussions might come their way that ninety nine
point nine percent of them are no return address, They're
they're unsigned, they're they're written on typewriters. The ones that
are signed underlined three times, do not use my name please,

(36:53):
I fear what will happen to me.

Speaker 4 (36:55):
So these are physical snail mail letters that would be
in mail to the magazine.

Speaker 5 (37:00):
Yeah, going all the way back to nineteen ninety eight,
and then there were some more. There were some more
emails and a kind of funny story about the research
process of this is, like I said, when you're going
all the way back into analog, using the microfilm reels
and trying to get a hold of youmatic tapes of
news broadcasts and all that, you kind of get into

(37:20):
this mentality of it's like archaeology. It's got to be
so hard to get this piece of information I need,
and you kind of forget, like, well, why don't you
just try emailing some of these people? Like Mark printed
out a stack of the original emails that he got
in like two thousand and three, two thousand and four
about the case, and I was trying to find because

(37:42):
the woman left her name. I was trying to find her.
She was a friend of Jeanette's, and I was coming
up empty because she had later married and taken on
a new last name. But then I just the last
resort was, well, let me try the email address on
here that's twelve years old, And sure enough, she was

(38:03):
still using it, and I got a reply, and it
was just one of those things. It was like, you know,
who still uses their email address from twelve years ago?
But it worked and and that's where a big break
in the case came. This person gave us a earth
shattering piece of information that really sets up the last

(38:24):
half of the book.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
With some of these other cases, you know, like that
that you know they made a movie about at the
River's Edge, and then even with the Castle case that
they were conducting my tours of the crime scene, like
the local kids were bringing people to see the body.
Were there local kids that were godsma about this? It's
it seemed to have more information than they were letting
go public.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
With the with the kids. No, not in the diploma case.

Speaker 5 (38:51):
People seemed to really be sincere when they told us
they had no idea what happened to Jeanette for the
six weeks that she was missing. Most people, Janette kind
of had a history of running away. There was some
turmoil in the family, nothing terribly out of the ordinary,
and she had been known to just run away and

(39:12):
stay with friends for a week or two. And so
when she had gotten missing, the family for some reason
thought that.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
She was in Manhattan. I guess she had said.

Speaker 5 (39:22):
Something at one point like, you know, I when I'm
done with school, I want to go to New York.
So the family went to New York City and posted
flyers looking for drove around looking for so everyone just
kind of assumed, oh, I guess, you know, maybe she
ran off with one of her friends, or she's in
New York or something, which made it all the more
shocking when the body was found. As far as anyone

(39:44):
actually knowing she was there, there is a theory that
a couple of the retired cops put forth to us
that Mark and I honestly don't think is true.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
A lot of.

Speaker 5 (39:56):
These investigators kind of wrote her off, like I said,
as a party girl and said, oh, well, you know,
maybe she was at this house party and she ohdeed
on something and the kids panicked and they just took
her body there, which is kind of weird because well
because one not a single person told us that Janetta
Palmer ever used any kind of hard drug, especially not.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Something that could kill you in one night.

Speaker 5 (40:21):
And the other thing too, is, of all the places
you're going to dump a body, like on top of
a forty foot cliff inside of an active construction site,
there are a million other places that they could have
put her other than there, that would have been easier,
and she never would have been found. So that whole
theory to us fell apart rather quickly. So as far

(40:46):
as people knowing she was there, I think the only
people that knew she was there is the person that
killed her.

Speaker 4 (40:53):
Could one person have carried the body up there? Was
it a bit of a hike or are taking it?

Speaker 1 (40:59):
I'll put it this way.

Speaker 5 (41:00):
I've been to the Devil's Teeth four times in the
course of writing the book. I am six foot three
over two undred fifty. I'm built like a linebacker, I'll
put it to you that way. And each time I
have tried to scale this hill because it's a very steep.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
You know, forget the quarry side.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
The quarry side is a total vertical drop, so you're
not getting up that unless you got a ladder. In fact,
they the fire department, had to get her remains down
with a ladder. That's that's how steep it was. Each
time that I went to the Devil's Teeth. Despite you
know my build, I've fallen, and I've fallen pretty hard,

(41:42):
and I wasn't carrying anything.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
I was carrying a camera.

Speaker 5 (41:44):
So the idea of one person just throwing her over
their shoulder and scaling to the top of this cliff,
I don't think so. And even bringing in more people,
a concentrated effort between two, three, four or five people,
especially at night, you know, there's nothing but trees in

(42:06):
this place.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
No moonlight would have shined through. It's very dark. I
don't think they would have been able to do it. It
just makes no sense.

Speaker 5 (42:13):
It just falls apart pretty quickly. But you know, there's
always this zero points zero zero one percent chance that
could have happened. Stranger things have happened. But in my
personal opinion, over the four years of research I did
for this book, I don't think that's what happened.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
Okay, gotcha? And back to the letters. Did the letters
point to any specific person and actually name a name?

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (42:34):
Really, which presented a problem for the magazine because I mean,
they're libel laws. Most of these people that were referred
to were still living at the time, and so the
Marks couldn't print them. There were a couple they printed
where the name was redacted, and then the people that
wrote the letters would call the office and say, I
told you who did it?

Speaker 1 (42:56):
You know, why didn't you print it?

Speaker 5 (42:57):
And of course you know, Mark, Well there are libel laws.
You know, we're trying to keep the magazine running. But
behind the scenes we were able to use those names
and start doing some investigation of our own, and that
turned out that's where suspect number three came from. And
that is where I'm gonna say, you'll have to read
the book because that's the twist in the book.

Speaker 4 (43:21):
Okay, the book is Devil, It's not Devil. The book
is Death on Devil's Tae, the strange murder that shock
suburban New Jersey. It's up on amazon dot com. The
author's name is Jesse Pollack. Now, did you turn those
letters over to the cops.

Speaker 5 (43:37):
Oh yeah, yeah, the cops actually came knocking for him
another you know, here we go like a broken record.
Another weird aspect of this case was.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
The family.

Speaker 5 (43:50):
A member of the family saw the initial weird New
Jersey coverage and mistakenly felt that they were withholding information
that they must have known something that they weren't printing
that would have solved the case. And this is going
back like two thousand and three, two thousand and four.
So the Springfield police called Mark Moran and said, we

(44:12):
understand you have some information on the DePalma case.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
We would like it.

Speaker 5 (44:16):
And Mark said, yeah, sure. I mean all we've really
got are some anonymous letters. A lot of them are
pretty kooky, but I'll be more than happy to give
them to you. In the meantime, do you think we
could look at the case file? And the guy said,
oh no, no, we can't. I believe this was the
lieutenant in charge of homicide that had called Mark and
he said, oh no, no, we can't show that to you.

(44:38):
It's an open case. And even if it wasn't, we
don't have it anymore. And Mark's like what and.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
He goes, yeah, yeah, no, we lost the case file
in nineteen ninety nine when Hurricane Floyd rolled through, so
that there was that.

Speaker 5 (44:53):
And then what was even weirder was I spoke to
another person from the homicide unit who would since retired,
and he told me in twenty thirteen, oh nose, that
case file was missing long before Hurricane Floyd. I was
looking for that case file in our archives in nineteen
eighty four and I couldn't find it. So there's this

(45:16):
element now of the Springfield Police Department is saying it
was either lost or destroyed, whether intentionally so or not.
And then there's the matter of in any homicide case,
the Union County Prosecutor's office would have been given a
copy because if an arrest is made, the prosecutor's office
handles the criminal proceedings. And that's where we got the

(45:40):
door slammed in our face by saying, yeah, we got
a copy, but no, you can't see it, have a
good one. So they have more or less everything that
we have, but we have nothing from them.

Speaker 7 (45:50):
You know.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
That's really fascinating, you know, because one of the oldest
tricks in the book is when you go to interview someone,
you bring a big, giant file you know it, could
we get have a phone book in It doesn't matter
what's in there. You put the you know, you print
that some stuff and you got a big file and you
just kind of slamm it and has the guy's name
on it. You know, you slam it down there on

(46:11):
the desk.

Speaker 7 (46:11):
Listen.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
We got to talk, you know it. I need I
need answers. So I talked to for a police department
to admit that they lost the file. It's such a
you've just given away such an interrogation technique. How big
is this police department?

Speaker 1 (46:26):
It's a moderate size.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
I mean had a coffee pot.

Speaker 5 (46:31):
Yeah, no, well it's it's it's not a small village
or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
I mean it's not a city. But uh it's a
decent size and it's a nice town. You know this.

Speaker 5 (46:41):
It isn't rinky dink and it's not Mayberry either. So
it was very surprising that it's like, wait, you're base.
You kept these in the basement first off, and you
let it flood. But that's just one story they tell you.
Like I said, we talked to another guy that said, no,
what that file was missing in eighty four? So there
and on top of all that, it just gets weirder

(47:03):
and weirder. We got an email while writing the book
from a guy in the fire department that said, oh yeah, hey,
I hear you're rattling some cages with the DiPalma case.
I just went back to Springfield over Christmas time and
said hi to my buddies in the police department, and
they told me that they found the diploma file in
the attic of the old Girl Scout house which they
were using for storage. So I said, oh great, So

(47:25):
I sent a Freedom of Information Act request over to
Springfield and of course was oh, no, you must have
been given mistaken information. We never found any file. The
file is lost and destroyed. Have a nice day.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
So it's it just.

Speaker 5 (47:40):
Begs the question, why, you know, if they are concealing something,
why what's the point. It's it's forty something years later.
I mean, it's obvious BS that they don't have the
file anymore. And that's coming from their own mouth. Their
own retirees are saying no, it wasn't destroyed in Floyd.
It was long gone years before. So it was just

(48:04):
another avenue that Mark and I had to go down.
In this case. It was just another piece of the
spider web.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
I rememberround that time in the seventies, how many homicides
were there handling in a year.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
Not a lot if I remember correctly.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
The DePalma case is one of only two unsolved homicides
in Springfield history, and it was the first homicide since
the nineteen fifties.

Speaker 4 (48:33):
Now and looking into this, is there any possibility in
your mind that this could be an elaborate satanic cult
or which is cult that has political influence and influence
within the police department, because you hear about that kind
of stuff all the time.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Wouldn't surprised me.

Speaker 5 (48:51):
We definitely found some occult connections. And this is still
I just want to put this out there because we
get a lot of questions about this whole time. This
is still a moving case just because we put the
book out almost two years ago. Now, God time goes fast,
it is, We're not done with it. We still get tips, emails, letters,

(49:13):
everything about this case. That's one of the reasons why
I started up the Devil's Teeth podcast because Mark and
I went to our publisher and basically said, listen, we've
gotten this wave of new information in since the book
came out because people that we were not able to find.
While we were looking for them, literally started calling us saying, hey,
I just walked into a Barnes Noble and I saw

(49:35):
a book and looked interesting.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
It turns out my name's in it. It's a case
that I worked. You want to talk?

Speaker 5 (49:40):
Yeah, So then there's another two hour interview on tape,
and it keeps branching out from there, and we said
to our publisher, look, can we please do a revised
and updated edition because there's all these new facts and
they told us.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Now, we don't really do that.

Speaker 5 (49:55):
So the one way that we're able to keep this
information out there, keep investigating it is through the podcast
and of course through the updates that we're going to
be doing through the magazine itself. So if you're interested
in this case now or after reading the book, you
can keep up with it at Devil's Teeth Pod on
Twitter or go to a weirdnja dot com and grab

(50:19):
yourself a subscription.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
And if people want to contact you with tips right now,
how would they get a hold of you on Twitter?

Speaker 7 (50:25):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (50:25):
Yeah, get a hold of me on Twitter. I'm at
J Pollock author, That's J. P O L l A
c K. Author, and uh yeah, just send me a
message or just send an email over to Weird New Jersey.
If you don't use Twitter, we all we all forward
each other on whatever emails we get related to the case.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
So if you can't find me on.

Speaker 5 (50:44):
Twitter you don't use Twitter, just go over to Weirdnew
Jersey dot com and hit that contact button.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
And I'm not sure if I asked you this, if
it slipped my mind or what, But I actually just
made it man it to the studio like five minutes
before the show starting because I got to hold little
bit here. So I'm a little u distracted, but I
made it out alive. Now, these suspects that you came
up with and then the people name, did you actually
get a chance to talk to these people on the
phone or meet them in person?

Speaker 5 (51:12):
No, there are all three of them are no longer living,
and one of them we just missed by about ten months.
He died ten months before we started the book.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
So not to give too much away, I.

Speaker 5 (51:25):
Don't want I don't want that to frustrate any potential
listeners because it wasn't too much of a hampering because,
let's face it, those guys probably wouldn't have talked to
us anyway, but we got documents on them.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
We interviewed people who.

Speaker 5 (51:36):
Knew them, and the cops that looked into them when
they were reported to them. So there is it is
a very intriguing part of this case that I think.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
You know, I mean, one of the.

Speaker 5 (51:50):
Roadblocks we kind of encountered while trying to get this
book published was all of the big names turned us down,
including my current publisher, Simon.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
Basically just because he said, look, it doesn't have an ending.
You know, it.

Speaker 5 (52:04):
Doesn't have you know, you don't there's no rest to
end it with. You can't definitively answer it. And we
never really you know, we could kind of see why
that was a hindrance to them. But at the same time,
the whole reason we went into this is because, deep
down inside everyone loves good mystery. I mean, look at
the Zodiac case. No one knows who that was. But

(52:25):
there was the Gray Smith book. There was the incredible
David Fincher film Lizzie Borden that's technically unsolved, and she's
gotten got a dozen movies, a TV series with Christina Ricci,
Jack the Ripper got how many Jack the Ripper books
are there now. I mean, now there's theories that Jack
the Ripper was actually a woman, and then there's Patricia

(52:47):
Cornwell saying it was the painter Walter Sickert. So it's
we never saw that personally as a hinderance. We always
felt that the story of this case was the journey
it took into finding answers, because it was never ever
just about, oh, this question is answered, Okay, we're done
with that one. No, it always blossomed into this whole,

(53:09):
brand new web of intrigue. And I know I'm talking
a whole lot about the case right now, but trust me,
I'm just barely scratching the surface. Definitely check out the book.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
Yeah. In the book is a Death on Devil's Teeth,
The Strange Murder that shocks suburban New Jersey by Jesse
pollicktz up on Amazon dot com. Now, but now, these
three suspects, these three guys, did you get a chance
to talk to the air ex wives or disgrunt little
girlfriends or kids and neighbors stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (53:34):
We tried and we did not hear a reply back,
which we took as a polite Now, I mean the
one person that had kids, the kids were very young,
they wouldn't have known anything. Like I said, we're going back,
you know, forty years at this point. But it wasn't
a terrible hindrance. The one suspect, Otto Nilsen, had caused

(53:57):
so much trouble in his neighborhood during the years that
he was there while this was all going on, that
his neighbors were more than happy to give interviews to
us to say, listen, this is why this guy was
arrested for killing the Kramer girl.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
You know, it wasn't It wasn't just.

Speaker 5 (54:12):
That, you know, the cops wanted a suspect and they
grabbed some poor innocent guy. This guy had been causing
trouble for years and had been suspected of another murder
I want to say, five, six, maybe seven years before
the Kramer girl died. So there's a lot of backstory
with that particular suspect. It's it's incredible how scary it is.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
We are at the break. We'll be coming back. Lenn'
talk with more with Jesse Polloch about the Acid Tangs,
your book coming out, mccasso. But you can find death
on Devil's Team, the strange murder that shots at Revenew Jersey,
amathon dot com.

Speaker 6 (54:51):
Also at operammerpark dot com and the book thought when
you right back at these lessons.

Speaker 4 (55:42):
And now a word from our sponsors. Did you know
that thirty of all people on online dating websites and
personal ads are either married or in a monogamous relationship.
If you suspect that your husband, your wife, your boyfriend,

(56:05):
your girlfriend may be cheating online, go to email revealer
dot com at our online infidelity investigation. You give us
their email address and we could trace it back to
online personal ads, dating sites and social networks. We can
even expand the investigation and find them cheating on escort

(56:27):
service sites or even porn sites if they're registered to
porn sites and swinger sites. So check out email rebuila
dot com if you suspect your spouse is cheating and
check out our online infidelity investigation. William Ramsay is a

(56:47):
producer here at the Opperaman Report, and he's just come
out with a new book, Children of the Beast, Alistair
Crowley's Shadow over Humanity. Now, he just sent me a
copy of this book. Oh boy, it's about two inch
thick and there's a chapter on just about everybody in
this book that you can imagine the Beatles and Jack Parsons. Uh,

(57:16):
everybody's in here. It's incredible and I definitely recommend this book.
There's a bunch of pictures in here too, of all
these people in a different chapters and uh information uh
antson LeVay and people I've never heard of too. It's
whole bunch of here.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
J C.

Speaker 4 (57:33):
JFC Fuller, I don't know who he is, but it's
great stuff by our producer here, William Ramsey. So check
out Children of the Beast Alistair Crowley's Shadow Over Humanity.
You can find it on Amazon dot com or you
could find it in the Opperman Report dot com bookstore.

(57:58):
We have an urgent bulletin. It seems that the straw
Man is still on the loose. It has been confirmed
that straw Man are Canadian, okay.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
And that.

Speaker 4 (58:12):
Authorities are asking people to stay indoors, lock your doors
and windows until this group can be dealt with. You
could find more information about this group, this group of
Canadians at Strawmanmusic dot com. You can have your ad

(58:33):
played here. Okay. We're looking for sponsors, okay. In fact,
we desperately need sponsors right now to take this show
to the next level, so you can have your advertise,
your ed played here red live, you know, like I'm
doing now so artfully. Or we can even work up
a little jingle for you with some music and stuff
like that and play here. You have no idea how
inexpensive it would be to have your ad played on

(58:57):
the Opperaman Report on seven stations live Friday night and
another seven stations live on Saturday night, plus replayed every
day of the week on different stations, and then archived
on YouTube, Speaker, iHeartRadio, iTunes and all different kinds of podcasts,
Pod this, and podbeing all different kinds of places who

(59:20):
archive the show for us, and on those archives your
ad would play indefinitely forever. The range covers five million
people in population where your ad would be broadcast, and
all these other stations would be thrown in for free,
so really affordable prices to sponsor Opermanreport dot com. Get

(59:46):
a copy of my book How to Become a Successful
Private Investigator. You can get a copy of that book
at email revealer dot com. Or you can get a
copy of that book now we's back up on Amazon
dot com. How to Become a Successful Private Investigator by
Ed Oberman and this book has been updated a little
bit from the previous book that we had that was

(01:00:06):
available to our wonderful listeners.

Speaker 8 (01:00:15):
Conspiracy theory, strategy of word order resistance. I built our
court cases in the news and interviews with extra guests
and authors. Are these topics and more.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
It's the Operaman Report, and now here is an investigator.

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
Okay, welcome back to the Opperman Report. I'm your host,
private investigator Ed Opperman. Before we get back to our guest,
Jesse P. Pollock, author of the book Death on Devil's Teeth,
the strange murder that shocks suburban New Jersey. Don't forget
our great sponsor, Phoebe side pscoco dot com. That's psc

(01:00:54):
o c o A dot com. They got the finest
silky smooth chocolates you could ever want. They have all
kinds of cake mixes and brownie mixes, martini mixes, barbecue sauces.
Check out pscoco dot com, click on the purchase now
button or shop now. I think it's called at phoebe
Sans Chocolate website. And you can also go into the

(01:01:18):
chocolate business. You can sell some chocolate. You can set
up your own little website there and and have it
promoted there sell you and get a little piece of
the action. There at a piece of the pie. They
got chocolate pie too, I think they have on it
to Okay, we got uh Jesse Pollock, Jesse, let me
ask you a question?

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Sure, Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
Can I see where are you that day when this
girl got killed? Okay? They have an alibi, Jesse. Let's
get to the bottoms. Are there any questions if.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
I am declining to answer upon advice of colcl.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
Wise man, Wise Man, is there any questions you think
I forgot to ask you about the uh this girl?

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Jeanette? Jeanette, No, I don't think, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:02:01):
I think if I give away too much more, I
don't think anyone's gonna want to go out and read
the book. So I will just say about that, like,
if you are looking for a real, a true life
American mystery that does not reveal its secrets easily and
does not, you know, t tie everything up in a
nice little bow for you, go out and read Death

(01:02:24):
on the Devil's Teeth. It really it was a life
changing experience researching and writing that book.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
And it's a case it's still being and I can't.

Speaker 5 (01:02:34):
Speak for the police, but it's being actively investigated by
Mark Moran and myself. It's a it's a it's a
real life American nightmare.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Definitely go check it out.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
This other book it's not out yet, called Acid Can
mm hmm.

Speaker 5 (01:02:49):
Yeah, oh sorry, No, that was something that it really
is a spiritual sequel, almost to death on the Devil's
Teeth because after Devil's Teeth came out, I was approached
by Simon and Schuster that said, hey, listen, we're getting
ready to start up this new true crime line that's

(01:03:13):
being spearheaded by an author friend of mine, Eve Pornschak.
Her book One Cut comes out in gosh, I believe
two months already.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Now.

Speaker 5 (01:03:22):
It comes out in May, along with Deep Water, the
next book in the series, but it's called Simon True
And basically they came to me and said, what do
you got. We're looking for something with that kind of
teenage nostalgia edge that we're seeing, you know, with stuff
like Stranger Things of the like right now. And I said, well,

(01:03:43):
there was this case that I know about in Long
Island in nineteen eighty four. There was a kid named
Ricky Casso who brutally and I mean brutally murdered a
friend of his name, Gary Lowers, in the woods, and
when he was arrested for it, straight up told the cops, yeah,

(01:04:03):
I sacrificed him to the devil, and they said, all right,
run with it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Go.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
And so I've spent the last fifteen to sixteen months
of my life working on this case, and it is
just as confusing and frustrating and horrifying as the Depauma
case was, if not more. This it's another thing where

(01:04:30):
the greatest Hollywood screenwriter could not come up with how
shocking this story really is. And it's really been an
eye opening experience to go back and look at the information.
Unlike the Depaulmer case, I have gotten the majority of
the case files for this one. I've spoken to the
families of both Ricky and Gary and interviewed the cops

(01:04:54):
that worked the case. So unlike the first one where
I really had to star from scratch. As far as
documents were concerned with the Acid King, I have a
pile of documents that is probably about ten inches thick.

Speaker 4 (01:05:11):
So now people will remember Castle because he was wearing
an ac DC T shirt when he got caught and
it was parading around hamming it up for the cameras
when we were taking him in there. You're not gonna
forget this, can It looks not like my cousin looked
at the time too, oh boy, because nineteen eighty four
this happened. So this is right in the middle of

(01:05:32):
the kind of wild time that was going on around
Long Island with this kind of stuff. So give us
tell us about Ricky Castle talks about him?

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
Well, I guess to go to the start of this case.

Speaker 5 (01:05:43):
Rickey Castle was, by all accounts, originally your average suburban kid.
He was born in March nineteen sixty seven in Huntington,
Long Island. His parents were both school teachers in the
Northport School district. The father was a football co coach,
also coached basketball and I believe wrestling. Very suburban, white bread,

(01:06:06):
white picket fence, you know, upbringing. And then something went
drastically wrong around the time he was eleven or twelve
years old, started getting caught up in drugs. He got
arrested for burglary when he was in the eighth grade.
With five other kids, broke into a church at one point,
stole all the cash from a collection box and supposedly

(01:06:29):
stole some of the hosts too, which is weird because
I wonder what he did with those. But definitely just
started heading down the wrong path. And a few years
after going down that dark road, things got even worse when,
by all accounts, he just became obsessed with the idea
of being a Satanist. Now, after the murder, the newspapers

(01:06:54):
went wild and claimed that there was a cult on
Long Island, but I don't don't believe that to be
the case. The police straight up deny it. They say
that that whole cult thing was a misunderstanding between their
press officer and the you know, the newspapers. But he
definitely was a person that was seduced by his own

(01:07:18):
idea of the dark side.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
And he wasn't the only one either. He had friends
that were interested in too.

Speaker 7 (01:07:23):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:07:23):
There's some accounts that say that Gary Lawers walked around
with a copy of the Satanic Bible in order to
kind of show off to Ricky before he was murdered.
So there was this culture of teenage rebellion in the
late seventies early eighties on Long Island, where you know,
kids as young as ten or eleven were dropping acid,

(01:07:44):
smoking angel dust and walking around saying, yeah, I'm a
Satanist to scare people.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
And you throw that in with the you.

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):
Know, the the panic that was already going on against
And it's kind of hilarious to think of it now,
but I mean, you'll remember this. Back then, parents were
terrified the dungeons and dragons were going to turn their
kids into Satanists. So there was these kids were going
out of their way to be the scariest thing that
they could be to their parents. And I saw it

(01:08:14):
as like a raised in a Fista society in general.
So this all was already brewing. It had been a
long time coming, and it culminated in April of nineteen
eighty four when Ricky passed out at a party that
he was attending with a bunch of his friends, Gary
Lowers included, and Gary, who was known to be kind

(01:08:37):
of a pickpocket around town, reached into Ricky's pocket and
stole ten bags of angel dust from him.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
He thought no one was watching him. He was wrong.

Speaker 5 (01:08:49):
Word quickly got back to Ricky. Ricky gave him a
pretty good beating, and you know, where's my angel dust?

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
He he had five bags of it.

Speaker 5 (01:09:02):
He said that he had smoked the other five, but
that he would get him, you know, the value of
at the fifty dollars that he owed towards it, which
he did. It took him a while, but he eventually
paid it back and by late June, Gary Lowers thought
that everything was fine between he and Ricky, and Ricky
definitely made it seem that way to everyone around them too.

(01:09:24):
On the night at June nineteenth, it was it was
erroneously reported as June sixteenth, but through my investigation I
found out it was actually the nineteenth. Everyone got together
downtown school was ending. There's a park at the end
of Main Street in Northport. There's a gazebo there, a
child's playground which was quickly taken over by the quote

(01:09:47):
unquote Durnk bag of teenagers in Northport, and they all
just convening down there. They're smoking angel dust, dropping acid,
boozing it up, and Ricky, along with two of his
friends Jimmy trus and Albert Canonez, said to Gary Hay,
why don't you come up to as take you a
woods with us and party. Now, as Takia Woods had

(01:10:10):
a long history, it is kind of like the watch
On Reservation in the de Palma case. There's this large
patch of woods on the southeast corner of Northport that
had a bit of a weird history to it because,
and here's the thing, no one will give you a
definitive answer on where these things came from. But there
were structures that were in the woods. There was like
a half completed church in there. There was I think,

(01:10:34):
like a weird sort of bread oven, like old school
bread oven that was left in there. But basically these
structures that kids would hang out in. And there are
three different stories, but they all revolve around an idea
of some strange preacher coming to Northport, either in the
nineteen twenties, the nineteen fifties or the nineteen seventies, setting

(01:10:54):
up shop and then leaving before he finished building the church.
And then of course all the little stoner kids in
town took over the woods and now they had a
place to hang.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
Out in, you know what I mean. It beat the rain.

Speaker 5 (01:11:06):
So there were rumors going all the way back to
the nineteen sixties that a few high school seniors at
Northport High School had put a witch's coven together and
they were meeting in these structures in Astakia.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
But by this.

Speaker 5 (01:11:21):
Point in June nineteen eighty four. To these kids, it
was just a party spot. It was a place you
could go where the cops didn't get you because it
was private property. The land was owned by New York
Senator Bernard Smith or Schmidt sorry, and it was secluded
enough where you could start a fire in there and

(01:11:42):
no one would really see it. You could play your
boombox and no one would really hear it. So they
all went up there to party, and at some point
during the night a fight broke out. Gary Lowers was
stabbed to death, and, according to Ricky, Jimmy, and Albert
in all of their statements when when they were later
arrested for this, during the course of the stabbing, Ricky

(01:12:05):
Casso made Gary Lowers proclaim his love for Satan. He said,
say I love you Satan while stabbing him, and at first,
Gary defiantly, to his credit, looked his killer in the
eye and said, no, I love my mother. And Ricky
just would not, He would not let up say you

(01:12:25):
love Satan, Say I love you Satan, until finally Gary
said it, and he was He died shortly afterwards. They
covered him with leaves and branches and went home washed
their bloody clothing off and resumed.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
Life as normal. And one of the tragic things about
this case is Gary Lowers was never reported missing. He
was kind of a street kid like Casso was. He
had the word that the term that was used by
the and everyone else was this kid had run away
so many times before that the parents never even thought

(01:13:05):
to report him missing. And here's where.

Speaker 5 (01:13:10):
Now one might say, oh, you know, goofy drug kids
in Long Island killed themselves over drugs. You know, it
happens all the time. You know what's so important about that?

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
I think the thing that really shocks people about this
case is for two weeks after the murder, Casso and
Triano were leading almost daily towards to the body. When
people would ask them.

Speaker 5 (01:13:35):
Hey, where's Gary man, I haven't seen Gary in a while,
they would tell them straight up, Oh we killed him.
Oh no, no way, Oh yeah, you want to see
the body, And he would lead these kids into his take.
He woulds and show them Gary Lowers's rotting corpse and
say I sacrificed him to the devil and.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
No one called.

Speaker 5 (01:13:56):
Not a single person that was shown the remains called
the police or told the adult there was It was
a combination of this code of silence among these kids
in Northport. You don't rat on your friend, and there
was also this fear that Ricky might come after them,
where the cops might even try to pin it on them,

(01:14:17):
so no one told anyone anything until July first. Troiano
met up with a girlfriend to go see a movie
and the girlfriend brought along a friend of hers who said, hey,
have you seen Gary, I mean Ricky around lately, And
Jimmy said, oh, yeah, he and I just killed a guy,

(01:14:38):
Gary Lowers, And just like everyone else, she thought that
he was making it up until he said, yeah, you
want to go see the body? And she said no,
of course not. So she went home and called Gary's
mother and said, you know, hey, is Gary there? She said, no,
we haven't seen Gary in almost three weeks, So that's
when she called the police. The police of it took

(01:15:00):
three days, but the police eventually found the body, and
then they found Caso and Troiano sleeping in a car.
And like you mentioned, it was a perfect package to
set off the satanic panic, because not only did you
have an admission from the killer that this was supposedly
a Satanic sacrifice, but also You had this, this real

(01:15:23):
dirt merchant of a kid on TV Living Color with
this ACDC shirt with a picture of a demon right
on the shirt, just growling at the camera. He was
every paranoid suburban parent's worst fear come to life, and
it was you couldn't escape it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
It was on all the three major network CBS, ABC
and NBC. It was front page news on the daily news,
in the Post every day for ten days running. I
believe the only thing that knocked it off the front
page was the McDonald's shooting that year, which at the
time was the large mass shooting on American soil. So

(01:16:03):
unlike the DePalma case, which went away pretty quickly, this
just kept ballooning and ballooning outwards, and it really gripped
the nation.

Speaker 4 (01:16:12):
A couple questions for you. Casso was influenced by an
older guy that was a Vietnam veteran. Did you look
into that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
Yes, that guy had a million nicknames in town. A
lot of people called him Pagan Pat.

Speaker 5 (01:16:28):
His name was Pat Tucson, Pagan Pat, Grandpa, dirt old
man Pat, all these names, and by.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
And large, what I have heard from the people.

Speaker 5 (01:16:38):
Who knew him was that he was a mentally disturbed
Vietnam veteran. He was about forty years old that hung
around downtown in Northport and just hung around all these
teenage kids in the park. He would sell his librium
to them, which I believe is a medication that he
used to calm down the detail when you're trying to

(01:17:00):
get off booze. It as a kind of an opioid effect.
He was also selling a variety of other drugs, mainly
prescription stuff he was getting through the VA hospital. But
he was your all around generic bad influence on these
kids and how it corresponded with Ricky is supposedly he

(01:17:24):
was possibly the person that introduced Ricky Casso to the
Satanic Bible.

Speaker 4 (01:17:30):
Right where is he today? Is he dead now or what?

Speaker 7 (01:17:32):
Probably? Right?

Speaker 5 (01:17:34):
Yes, he actually committed suicide. In the months right after
this whole thing blew up. There were a lot of
conspiracy theories going around that may he may have been
up there that night. It was actually kind of interesting,
you know how how recollections get molded together in people's brains.

(01:17:54):
I talked to a couple of Ricky's friends that were like, oh,
we think that he may have actually killed Pat two.
He pushed Pat in front of the train, and then
I have to kind of awkwardly remind them it's like,
well Pat didn't die until five months after Ricky died,
and then it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 5 (01:18:09):
But it just shows the kind of fear, this shock
wave that it left behind. You know, it wasn't just
you know, so much that it was this this horrible murder,
but the element of fear, the fear that he instilled
in these people was so much so that thirty two,
thirty three years later, people are still like, well, I
think he may have got one other person. It wasn't

(01:18:31):
out of their frame of mind to suspect that. But
by and large I have heard that this guy was
this you know. You know, it's it's unfortunate there there
was a large drug problem in Northport. There was a
big problem with alcoholic and drug addicted veterans with the
VA hospital that was built there, and unfortunately these two

(01:18:54):
forces combined and it really if he did not introduce
Ricky Casso to Satanism, he fanned the flames of it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:03):
Interesting too that in a time, because you know, I
have a daughter right now who's seventeen years old, you know,
and to think how these three kids could murder somebody
come home. They had to have blood on him. They're
clothing had blood on it. But you know, how could
the parents not notice this?

Speaker 3 (01:19:21):
Or or.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
It was very very late at night.

Speaker 5 (01:19:26):
They didn't leave the woods until about three in the morning.
So they walked back to Albert Canonas his house, and
Ricky and Jimmy each took showers, and they threw out
the bloody clothes in a neighbor's trash can, and Albert
lent them a shirt, and they just went back downtown
where kids were still hanging out and partying at four

(01:19:47):
or five in the morning.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Just like nothing ever happened. Incredible, it was, it was
nothing to these kids.

Speaker 4 (01:19:53):
Just such a different world back in those days. Now,
Trana and Quinonas, there's varying versions of the story where
either they were holding Gary or they weren't holding Gary,
and what did you come up with?

Speaker 5 (01:20:07):
I don't think anyone will ever know what happened there
that night, because the two of them have told such
differing stories. There were two separate confessions that were taken
from Jimmy on the day that he was arrested. One
of them, he's very innocent, in the other one not
so much. Albert Canonez, in exchange for immunity, gave the

(01:20:30):
police a confession that said that Jimmy held Gary down
while Ricky stabbed, but then surprised everyone during the trial
by tearfully breaking down and saying, no, Jimmy didn't do it,
but I ran up and kicked Gary in the face
while he was being stabbed. So unfortunately, who knows at

(01:20:51):
this point does it change the outcome? Probably not, but
it's horrifying to think of. It's just the absolute callousness
shown towards someone that I mean, Ricky had known this
kid since second grade. The two of them were on
the same Little League team together, and it all came

(01:21:13):
you know, if you take one side of it, it
all came down to fifty dollars of drug money and
he snuffed his friend's life out. There's also the whole
satanic element. Like I said, the newspapers quickly latched onto
this idea of a satanic cult operating in Northport, New York,

(01:21:34):
and the way that that happened basically was a up
press release was prepared after the arrest that just whoever
wrote it just took it upon themselves to say Ricky
Casso is a member of a Satanic cult that performs
rituals to honor the devil. Ricky Casso did perform rituals
to honor the devil.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
He actually went to.

Speaker 5 (01:21:56):
The Amityville Horror House on Walpurgis knocked few months before
the murder and performed a ritual outside.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
There was he part of an organized cult.

Speaker 5 (01:22:06):
No, there was another issue that reinforced it where there
was a group of kids that were around a few
years beforehand known as the Knights of the Black Circle.
The Knights of the Black Circle entered this whole mess
when the police chief was giving an interview and basically
the interviewer said, well, have you had trouble.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
Like this in Northport before? And he said, well, there
was a goat.

Speaker 5 (01:22:30):
Fetus that we found burned in the gazebo where Castle
hung out in nineteen eighty one, but we later found
out it was this group called Knights of the Black
Circle that may have done it. So all of a sudden,
the press is just like, oh, it was where Castle
hung out, group called Knights of the Black Circle. Casto
was in the Knights of the Black Circle. So then

(01:22:52):
the next day, another article runs says Castle was the
leader of the Knights of the Black Circle, who weren't
even a standic cult. They were group of drug dealers,
but they used satanic imagery to scare competing people away.
They were apparently a bunch of nerdy, hippie piece freaks
that were getting their butts kicked by competing dealers and

(01:23:13):
having their stash stolen from them. So they figured, well,
why don't we just paint some pentagrams on the back
of our jackets and people will leave us alone.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
And boy did they leave them alone. The people were
horrified to these kids.

Speaker 5 (01:23:25):
But then the tables kind of got turned on them when,
just because of a total error in reporting, the Daily
News in the New York Post were telling the country
these kids are the satanic cult that killed Gary Lawers.
So these guys, you know, I don't want to be,
you know, too poor them or anything, but they had
to go in hiding, and the Daily News in the

(01:23:46):
Post never corrected this.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
So this idea of Ricky.

Speaker 5 (01:23:49):
Casso being this teenage satanic cult leader just flew out
into the ether and it really stuck. Now that's not
to say they're Ricky, so was not a Satanist. We
know that he did walk around with a copy of
the Satanic Bible. And a very chilling revelation that came
to me recently was there was a reporter that went

(01:24:13):
to Northport in the wake of this all happening by
the name of David Breskin. Breskin is a very very
talented reporter who had done work for Rolling Stone in
the past, and he was assigned this story and he
really integrated himself into this community of kids trying to
get the true story while the daily papers were, you know,

(01:24:34):
just selling, you know, all these crazy, sillacious headlines, you know,
really hyping it up when it was it didn't really
need to be.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
The truth was horrifying enough. But basically, Breskin gave me
his tapes that he recorded all of the forty four
hours worth of interviews, and then gave me access to
his notebooks. And I noticed in his notebooks that he
was marking down very specific pages from the Satanic Bible,

(01:25:02):
you know, page eighty eight, page eighty nine.

Speaker 5 (01:25:05):
So I went and I got to copy myself for
my research, and I'm flipping through it. And the interesting
thing about the modern Satanic Church is a lot of
it's it's it's almost compared to libertarianism these days in
the sense that it's like, no, this is about personal freedom.
It's about basically getting ahead in life. You know, a

(01:25:28):
lot of this spooky stuff is stuff that's all just
you know, thrown on us by the media. It's just
basically acknowledging man as a carnal beast is one of
the ways I like to call it. So when you
hear that, I was honestly under the impression that, you know, oh,
the Satanic Bible doesn't advocate sacrifice then, or if you
probably couldn't publish a book in America that advocates murder,

(01:25:53):
you know, there's probably some laws against that. But sure enough,
while going through Breskin's notes, there's a reference to an
entire chapter in the Satanic Bible called on the Choice
of a Human Sacrifice, and in it it makes very
clear based not instructions, but it says, to quote, the

(01:26:14):
only time a Satanist would perform a human sacrifice would
be if it were to serve a twofold purpose, that
being to release the magician's wrath, the magician being the
killer in the throwing of a curse and more important
to dispose of a totally obnoxious and deserving individual. Now,

(01:26:34):
one of the things that we know about Ricky Casso
is he owned a.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
Copy of this book. And the other thing is I
have a copy of his confession, and he ends his
confession by saying, Gary Lawers was ripping off everyone in
town and he got what he deserved.

Speaker 5 (01:26:51):
Which I mean, it's a bit of a leap, but
it does make me wonder. Is by stressing, by ending
his last recorded statement as saying, as you know, really
pounding the point home, he got what he deserved.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Was he making.

Speaker 5 (01:27:06):
Reference to this passage in this book that he had
read so many times that your human sacrifice has to
be a deserving individual who had wronged you, who had
caused you pain. So it really does make you wonder.
You know, if you're a seventeen year old kid living
in the woods, strung out on angel dust, fifty pounds underweight,

(01:27:26):
with no prospects ahead of you, and you're sitting across
from this kid who had wronged you, had embarrassed you,
he stole from you when you really had nothing to
your name, it really makes you wonder if the drugs
really pounded that home. You know, this kid's gotta come in.
It's It gave me chills reading that passage because I

(01:27:47):
honestly did not know what was in there. I hadn't
had time to read the Satanic Bible cover to cover yet,
but sure enough, there it is, giving almost an excuse
for a human sacrifice. So was rickyso the robe wearing
leader of a Satanic cult on Long Island?

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
No?

Speaker 5 (01:28:05):
But is it out of the realm of possibility that
in his own mind Ricky Casso was sacrificing Gary Lawers
to Satan as revenge for the drug theft, I would argue, definitely.

Speaker 4 (01:28:18):
So oh yeah, so what I Now? Let me ask
a question, what is your faith? Do you have a
faith that you follow a practice or believe in.

Speaker 5 (01:28:28):
I guess you would say I'm agnostic. I really I
I don't know. I I it's one of the things.
It's like I hunt for answers for a living, but
I don't have one on this. Culturally, I was raised
Roman Catholic for a period of time, but now I
don't know. You know, it's you know, for a while,

(01:28:49):
I was your edgy college atheist man, but now I've
seen enough weird things in my life, paranormal things, things
that are pretty hard to write off as coincidence, where
I do have to kind of take a step back
and wonder, like, is there something pulling the strings out there?

Speaker 1 (01:29:08):
So I guess I'll play it safe. It's say I'm agnostic.

Speaker 4 (01:29:11):
Now these Rolling Stone, He's forty four hours of tapes,
you have any of that stuff with transcripts included in
the book.

Speaker 5 (01:29:19):
I used them as a way to because it's incredible
listening to them. They were really highly regarded as you know,
the holy grail of this case, so much so that
when Troyano went on trial, his lawyer Eric and Iberg,
who later became famous for the Amy Fisher case the
Long Island Lolita, he subpoenaed Breaskin for these tapes and

(01:29:46):
lost Like these were very highly desired and they were
never made public. They were used to make a I
think it's a seven or eight page article in Rolling Stone.
Go to David Breskin's website if you I want to
read something before the asp Kin comes out, which is
possibly the most reliable piece of reporting on this case.

(01:30:06):
Go to Davidbreskin dot com b R E s KI
N and search for Kids in the Dark, which is
the name of his article. Like I said, he spent
several weeks in Northport living amongst these teenagers, collecting forty
four hours interview tape, including from Canonez a absolutely chilling

(01:30:27):
description of the murder, and basically I got him to
send them to me. I digitized them. They had never
been digitally preserved before, and listening to them was it
was almost like theater of the mind because he he
almost never turned the tape recorder off, and it's from

(01:30:48):
beginning to end, so it's almost like hearing a radio
play of him going and meeting all these people. And
it was kind of, you know, for lack of a
better word, trippy to hear because half of the people
he's spoke to I spoke to before I got the
tapes as forty five to fifty year old adults, so
it's like, oh, there's a there's a young.

Speaker 1 (01:31:08):
Version of that guy. Wow, his voice changed.

Speaker 5 (01:31:10):
So I was able to utilize because there was just
so much on the tapes, I was able to utilize
them into creat creating and crafting these scenes in the book.
Like nothing is invented, no dialogue is invented. But I
was able to use the tapes as a way to

(01:31:30):
show like, he went here, this is who he spoke to,
and this is what happened, And you really really get
a sense of what it was like to be up
against the impossible in a town that did not want
to talk about this. The kids were hiding, you know,
a lot of them were to gaggle orders from lawyers
and cops, and it just shows that this guy persevered

(01:31:54):
and was able to get the closest thing to the
true story out there in nineteen eighty four.

Speaker 4 (01:32:00):
Say it's funny the way he said it a couple
of times that the Rolling Stone reporter was living amongst
these teenagers, almost like it's an African tribe, like this
pigmy tribe in Africa.

Speaker 5 (01:32:13):
You would laugh, but you would have to hear these
cakes because it is. It is exactly like that there
was a code amongst these kids. They were wary of
any reporter because I mean, gosh, you know, a couple
of them spoke to the first wave of reporters that
came and then all of a sudden they pick up
the copy the next day and it's like, wait, I

(01:32:35):
didn't say that. My words were there's no cult here,
Ricky the leader of a cult. What are you talking about?
This kid was a dirt bag living in the woods.
He didn't have any money to eat, he couldn't take
care of himself, he couldn't organize anything. So it was
very much like that. You know, these kids were very guarded,
They stuck together. There was a code of silence, there
was a code of honor among them. But he was

(01:32:56):
able to I don't want to say infiltrate, because there
wasn't anything farious behind his intentions. But he was able
to go there and find these kids and aimed their
trust in trusting him to tell their story, and most
of them to this day say he was the only
one that did a good job. He was the only

(01:33:16):
one that didn't lie. He didn't put words in our mouth,
and it was the closest thing out there to the truth.
The book that came out in nineteen eighty seven, however,
is a completely other story. That's just Oh, it put
a bad taste in my mouth reading it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:32):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:33:33):
Triano and Quinones, Okay, did you because Tryanna was given
interviews now today, have you talked to either of these people.

Speaker 5 (01:33:40):
Tryana was actually in jail right now on a charge
for in two thousand and four, he held up a
CVS pharmacy in Maine. He took his step kids bicycle
and rode over to a CVS with a cap gun
in his hand and forced the pharmacist to get him
a whole bunch of oxycon and I believe fentanyl patches.

(01:34:04):
And he was busted right away in the in the
parking lot. So he's in jail right now. On that
Cononas I did contact Cononez, refused to speak with me
unless I paid him and assured him that there was
a movie deal attached.

Speaker 1 (01:34:21):
So that did not happen.

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
Very interesting, Okay, Now Quinona's got a deal. He went,
he got he got busted right away that he brought
him in and he gave a confession and he agreed
to testify against the other two guys. Right then we
have Ricky commit suicide.

Speaker 5 (01:34:39):
Yes, Ricky hung himself with a prison bedsheet only eight
or nine hours after being transferred into the Suffa County
jail in Riverhead. He left no suicide note, gave no
indications that he was going to do it. In fact,
one of the most shocking things when you really start
reading deep into this case is you realize that he

(01:34:59):
was in interviewed right away by a prison psychologist, a
guy by the name of doctor Richard Dacow. And Dacau
interviewed both Ricky and Jimmy back to back and determined
that Ricky was fine. He was cool, calm, collected.

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
He was not.

Speaker 5 (01:35:18):
He was not lashing out. His thoughts were coherent, grounded
in reality. He asked to see the drug counselor because
he wanted to get himself clean in jail. So he said, okay,
he's fine, and then Triano, he said, oh, this guy's
suicidal Triana was in a fetal position on the bench
in the holding pen, wouldn't make eye contact, was in despair,

(01:35:43):
saying his life was over, his life was ruined by
all this. So he ordered him to the sick bay
immediately for a twenty four hour suicide watch. And you know,
I can't fault the guy because the guy was tricked.
Ricky had trick doctors before, but yeah, they got the
wrong one.

Speaker 4 (01:36:03):
Now were we able to talk to Trano.

Speaker 1 (01:36:08):
No, he's in jail right now.

Speaker 5 (01:36:09):
Was not able to get a hold of him, and
the people that were close to him in Northport all
told me, this is not a guy you want having
your address, and he's probably not going to give you
the truth anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:36:21):
So I took the word on it.

Speaker 5 (01:36:23):
But I do have access to interviews that he gave
several interviews to the newspaper after the trial was over,
and there is a filmed interview between him and Peter Fallardi,
a filmmaker who made an unreleased film in the late
nineteen nineties early two thousands called Ricky Six. It wasn't

(01:36:44):
released because I believe the story is the bank that
was financing the film went under, so now the film
is stuck in perpetual like legal limbo, like the entity
that owns it is no.

Speaker 1 (01:36:57):
Longer a thing.

Speaker 5 (01:36:57):
So but you can watch a the master print of
it up on YouTube. Just type in Ricky six. I
think even if he just type in Ricky Casso, it
comes up. But he had directed that, and he was
also involved in a Discovery Channel documentary at the same
time called Satan in the Suburbs, and during the production
of that Trianto was interviewed extensively. So I have his

(01:37:19):
interviews from that documentary in addition to a ten minute
one that he does with Peter Fallardi and it's kind
of chilling. At the end of if FALLARTI asks him like,
is there anything that you wish you could say to
Ricky now? And he just goes, you know, hope you
said your prayers before.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
You hung up.

Speaker 5 (01:37:37):
It's just this total total nihilism towards each other that
these kids had. You know, these there was there was
really no honor among them. There was no regard for
human life. It's chilling. You know, forget the Satan stuff.
I mean even without the Satan stuff, it's just it's brutal,
it's it's and then you realize it's like these kids
were all under eighteen, you know, it's and this wasn't

(01:38:02):
This wasn't a ghetto where you imagine violent crime to
happen all the time. Because of the sensational reporting of
the media. This was, you know, oh, beautiful Northport, Hey,
Jack Carouac is from here. You know, we're this wonderful
liberal you know, Artsy FARTSI community, you know, with our
nice schools and our beautiful Marina, and what these kids

(01:38:23):
did instantly turned it into Satan Town USA.

Speaker 4 (01:38:28):
Natarano stood trial and he was found not guilty.

Speaker 5 (01:38:36):
Yeah, Nyberg, to his credit, found an incredible defense. The
way that he explained it to me when I interviewed
him last year was he goes. I met him for
the first time, and he told me an incredibly believable,
solid story.

Speaker 1 (01:38:51):
About what happened that night.

Speaker 5 (01:38:53):
And then I met up with him again and he
told me a second, completely credible and agreeable story, but
it was one hundred percent different from the last one. Wow,
he did this a third time, and I said, you
know what, I need to get him released from the
jail so I can bring him back to his Takia woods,

(01:39:13):
to the murder site, and maybe that will trigger his
proper memory of what happened. The judge signed off on
it and said, sure, you know this is important. So
brought him back to the crime scene, and according to Nyberg,
Jimmy gave him a fourth completely believable story. What was
one hundred percent different from the previous three. So he said, Jimmy,

(01:39:37):
we got a problem here. You've told me four completely
different stories. And he said, well, mister Niberg, when you're
on PCP and acid and the stars are shooting across
the sky and the trees are are changing colors, it's
hard to remember what happened that night, and a light
bulb went off in Nyberg's head and he said, that's

(01:39:58):
our defense. You know, the kids had no idea what
they were doing. None of the testimony is reliable, Cassos
Toronto's Cononez is, none of them because they were out
of their mind on drugs. How do we know what
really happened that night? How do we know who held
who down? How do we know who stabbed too? And
he made his case to the jury and the jury said,

(01:40:19):
he's right. You know how we especially after they watched
Cononez on the stand completely change his story, did a
total one point eighty and they let him go. So
there really was no justice for Gary Lowers in this case.

Speaker 4 (01:40:37):
Do you think they got to Quantonas with an offer.

Speaker 5 (01:40:41):
Well, yeah, he was the first one they got.

Speaker 4 (01:40:45):
I mean the defense. They think the defense approached the
Quantonas and got him to change his story.

Speaker 1 (01:40:50):
Oh them, No, No, I I honestly think that that
he because he had tried.

Speaker 5 (01:40:59):
Nyberg had tried to get to Cononas. That was the
whole aspect of him trying to get Breskin's tapes. Because
when the Rolling Stone article came out in late November
nineteen eighty four. The trial was still on the planning stage.
So Eric Niberg picks up a copy of this article
and sees Albert Conona is interviewed in it, and he's
talking about how the cops beat a confession out of him,

(01:41:23):
which may or not be true. The cops that were
there when he was interrogated all and says, no, he
was not beaten. We would tell you if he was, so,
you know, for whatever that's worth. But Nyberg is reading
this and going, wait, if his confession was coerced violently
out of him, you know, there's no credibility to the witness,
you know. So he wanted to hear if there was

(01:41:44):
anything else on the tapes relating to that he was
blocked at every move. I believe, well, I know Cononas
was taken out of Northport during this period leading up
to the trial. I believe he was sent to Georgia.
I can't be on percent certain, but that was the
rumor on the streets. So now he never got to
them on the stand there. I honestly think that this

(01:42:06):
was a kid that was also very confused about what
happened that night, Because these were kids that were ingesting
an astronomical amount of technically dirty drugs because what they
were also taking that night in in addition to smoking
marijuana that was laced with PCP, was what they were
calling mesk.

Speaker 1 (01:42:26):
They thought it was mescaline.

Speaker 5 (01:42:27):
They were these little things called purple micro dots that
were sold on the street as mescaline, but they really weren't.
They were like real bottom grade LSD cut with a
little bit of PCP and shockingly enough, with strychnine, which
is for you know, you non chemistry nerds out there,
it's rat poison. So these kids were swallowing rat poison,

(01:42:49):
PCP and LSD thinking it was a natural drug that's
taken from taken from a cactus plant.

Speaker 1 (01:42:58):
I believe mescaline is. And no, they they were They were,
you know, drinking.

Speaker 5 (01:43:02):
These kids were drinking draino as they say, so they
were out of their minds on all this stuff. So
I really think that that's the essence of what their
peers were telling me while I were while I was
interviewing them, and they said, you will not get a
straight story from them. They have no no reason to
give you one because they don't want to end up

(01:43:23):
in jail, which they would in any way because of
double jeopardy laws.

Speaker 1 (01:43:27):
But also they've.

Speaker 5 (01:43:29):
Had thirty two years to mold this story in their
minds the way that they want to to make them
look good to themselves.

Speaker 1 (01:43:36):
So I wouldn't trust them.

Speaker 4 (01:43:39):
No, that too, But the story has been there's been
a lot of movies about this story.

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:43:43):
Even one of the Wahlberg brothers was in one of
these movies. It was loosely placed based on the story.

Speaker 5 (01:43:49):
Oh the Oh God, what was the name of it?
The one was based on the book recently, the fiction book. Yeah,
I think it was up by Jillian Flynn in a
Dark Wood.

Speaker 4 (01:43:59):
I don't know what much, but one of the Wallburg
brothers is in.

Speaker 5 (01:44:01):
It's because there's also there's Ricky Six, There's Black Circle Boys.
There's the one that Jim Van Beber did My Sweet Satan,
and then there was the one that Tommy Turner and
I'm gonna butcher this guy's last name. I think it's
Well Jarnis David Wojarnis did called Where Evil Dwells? So

(01:44:23):
this is yeah, it's never left the pop culture consciousness.

Speaker 4 (01:44:28):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Black Circle Boys is the one
with the Wahlberg in it. I was just watching, And
why do you think it's so popular.

Speaker 5 (01:44:38):
There's so many elements to it, because, like I said,
even if you take the Satanism out of it, it's
still horrifying. If you take the murder out of it,
a group of kids being seduced by satan is still horrifying.
Then even if you take the drugs out of it
and all that stuff, it's like, well, I can excuse, like,
you know, someone flipping out on PCP and murdering someone.

Speaker 1 (01:45:01):
I mean you can see that.

Speaker 5 (01:45:03):
I mean, look at all the urban legends we heard
growing up about Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:45:07):
Yeah, man, a new guy. He took PCP and he
cut his face off and fitted to his dogs. Man,
it was crazy. So it's not out of the roma possibilities.

Speaker 5 (01:45:16):
But then you have to account for the period of
time where he came down from that high and showed
no remorse for it and led tours to the body,
and so much so that people think that it's that
River's Edge was based on this case, which it was,
and it was. It was based on the Conrad case

(01:45:37):
a couple of years later. But I think people just
can't wrap their heads around it and That's why it's
it's immediately appealing to them. And also, like I said,
it is kind of the perfect package. You have all
of these these really spooky circumstances of the case, and
then you have accompanying it one of the most striking
images in all of pop culture. You have the photograph

(01:46:00):
that Tony Jerome took of Ricky Castle walking into his
arraignment and his eyes are burning a hole into your soul.
He's got the ac DC shirt on, he's sneering at
the camera. I mean, it's to me, it's as iconic
as the photograph of Oswald holding the rifle and the
communist newspapers in the backyard. It's just I mean, who

(01:46:21):
that summer in nineteen eighty four, you couldn't pick up
a newspaper without seeing that image. And it's it's striking,
it's shocking, it's horrifying, and it's all real.

Speaker 4 (01:46:32):
Did you talk to any of the kids now grown
up who went on that tour or what about the
Rolling Stone guy? Did he talked to any of those
one on the tours that he's of the body?

Speaker 1 (01:46:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:46:41):
Yeah, he spoke with at least two of them who
are quoted in the kids in the dark story. I
briefly spoke with one of them, who was not happy
to hear that this case is still being written about.
He really wants he wants the story to go away
because he got his act together, so I can't fault
him for that. I spoke to another guy who was

(01:47:03):
the one that was brought up to the body when
Ricky and Jimmy decided they wanted to bury it, and
he told me an absolutely chilling story because at the
time I had not made this this discovery in Preskin's
notebooks about the Satanic Bible and how that may have
influenced Ricky, because because everyone always says, oh, the Satanic

(01:47:25):
Bible was an influence, but no one ever points to
a specific passage.

Speaker 1 (01:47:30):
And this was the.

Speaker 5 (01:47:30):
First time that I found something where, oh, my god, yeah,
this is this is completely advocating everything.

Speaker 1 (01:47:36):
That he did.

Speaker 5 (01:47:37):
And there's a word that appears in here that also
appears in the confession.

Speaker 1 (01:47:41):
So before that, I.

Speaker 5 (01:47:42):
Was kind of of the mind that, a, yeah, the
Satan thing was exaggerated by the media.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
This was just drug thing.

Speaker 5 (01:47:48):
And I said that to this guy because I mean,
that is one of the ways that I get people
to talk to me. I'm not being deceptive. I'm saying, look,
I understand that the media has sensationalized this before, but
I'm not trying to do that. From what I understand,
this was a drug murder. This wasn't about Satan, and
I just want to write the truth. And this guy
told me, he said, listen, I would not discount the

(01:48:11):
Satanic element of this. I will tell you right now.
I stood next to the body of Gary Lowers in
Astakia Woods with Ricky and Jimmy, and they both looked
at me and said, Gary is in hell now because
we made him say he loved Satan before he died.
And the hairs on the back of my next stood up.
It wasn't enough to take this kid's life away from him.

(01:48:35):
They had to send him to hell too.

Speaker 7 (01:48:40):
Amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:48:40):
Now did Ricky tell Because in these movies, and almost
in every movie, they say that Ricky told Tryanna he
was going to kill himself there in prison. What did
you find out about that?

Speaker 5 (01:48:52):
According to the jailhouse psychologist that spoke to both of them,
he said after the suicide, he went and asked Jimmy,
did he tell you he was going to do this?

Speaker 1 (01:49:01):
And Jimmy allegedly told him.

Speaker 5 (01:49:03):
Yeah, he said he he might do it if it
looked like the trial was going to go on long.

Speaker 1 (01:49:10):
But I didn't. I didn't think he was going to
do it this quick.

Speaker 5 (01:49:13):
You talk to his other friends on the street, and
they will tell you, since this kid was in middle
school that he was saying, if I ever end up
in jail, I'm going to kill myself. Now, however, much
of that is hindsight. Being twenty twenty, of course, we'll
never know, but it is something that I've heard from
over a dozen people that supposedly this kid knew from
a very young age that he was possibly heading down

(01:49:36):
the wrong path and that if he ever did something
that would land him with serious jail time, he was
going to take the easy way out.

Speaker 4 (01:49:42):
Just imagine, you know, living your life that way. You know,
with that kind of concept in your mind, you know,
you have a suicide plan in your head because you
know you have a planet you're going to wind up
in prison somehow. Just a life. Seventeen year old, several
seventeen year old lives just down the drain. Now, we
only got about five minutes left. Are there any questions

(01:50:03):
you think I've forgotten to ask you that are important for.

Speaker 1 (01:50:05):
This h No.

Speaker 5 (01:50:07):
I think we've really covered the gamut here without giving
too much of the book away. And it was really
good to talk about this like because, like I said,
I'm very close to handing in the manuscript, and it
just shows like people, I think, have this idea that
and for all I know, maybe some true crime writers
do write this way, but people kind of have this

(01:50:27):
idea that when you're working on a case, it's already
you know, finished, it's over and done with. It was
thirty two years ago, thirty three I think this year,
that you do your research and then there's a there's
a fine line where the research is over and then
you go away and write your book. When for me,
at least, it's a constant there's a million moving pieces
in this thing, the investigation, the research is constantly going.

Speaker 1 (01:50:51):
And here I am.

Speaker 5 (01:50:52):
I'm three weeks away from handing in the Acid King
to Simon and Schuster, and this week I found the
past in the Satanic Bible that may have not told
Ricky to do this, but justified the idea in his
drug addled mind. So it just goes to show that,

(01:51:12):
I mean you could be right up against your deadline
and you can make these discoveries. And it was it
was a pleasure to actually discuss this with you, because
I like to keep the readers informed.

Speaker 1 (01:51:23):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:51:23):
It's you know, when I'm waiting for, you know, one
of my favorite authors to put out a book, it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:51:29):
I want updates.

Speaker 5 (01:51:29):
I want to know when can I get it, what
you're doing, how's the investigation. And I like to keep
my readers informed with that because you know, it's kind
of like it's we're all going through this together.

Speaker 1 (01:51:39):
This is a it's a very strange journey.

Speaker 5 (01:51:41):
I've been very, very lucky to do what I've done,
Like I said, to have this community of we're New
Jersey behind me, working with me, helping me out with things,
it's just been incredible. I wouldn't trade it for the world.
I have the best readers and the best friends in
the world. And uh, it's always a pleasure come on
shows like yours and just telling people like, hey, you know,

(01:52:03):
this is what's going on, and you're going to get
to read it soon.

Speaker 4 (01:52:06):
And this book is going to be called The Acid King,
and it's going to be available on Amazon when.

Speaker 1 (01:52:12):
Somewhere within the next year.

Speaker 5 (01:52:13):
I'll have a firm date once it's handed in and
it's edited, but if you want updates on when that
date is coming, you can follow me on Twitter at
j Pollock author. That's JP o ll Ack author, and
just keep googling the Acid King Ricky Casso. I'm going
to be doing press on this leading up to a

(01:52:34):
keeping everyone posted because I know this is a case
that I mean, you grew up with it, you know
all about it, and I think a lot of people
because the public was largely duped. Like I won't go
too much into it, but in nineteen eighty seven there
was a paperback book that came out called Say You
Love Satan, and Say You Love Satan upset a lot

(01:52:55):
of people who were around back then because this author,
David Saint Clair, all he did was read a couple
of newspaper articles and literally made the rest up like
it's invented, and he plagiarized the Rolling Stone article in it,
a couple of the Newsday articles and let's face it,
in an era before Google and instant fact checking, if

(01:53:17):
you don live on Long Island at the time, you
picked up this book and read this you thought that
was how it happened. It's like, well, it's a book,
it's gotta be true. So I think now that more
and more people are able to go on the Internet
and find out like, oh wow, that that book that
I bought and I read wasn't true. Like I really
want to, you know, leave the door open to people

(01:53:37):
to know, like, this is how I'm writing this book,
this is how the research and the investigation is going,
and soon it'll all be out there for everyone to
know that this is the true story of what happened
with Ricky Casso in Northport, and the truth is literally.

Speaker 1 (01:53:53):
Stranger than fiction.

Speaker 5 (01:53:55):
Like I don't see why anyone would make anything up
with this story because the story's horrifying.

Speaker 4 (01:54:00):
Where can people find you podcasts again.

Speaker 5 (01:54:03):
Well, the Devil's Teeth podcast you can find that. You
can search for it on Google just Devil's Teeth Podcast.
There's a Twitter account that I run with it. It's
at Devil's.

Speaker 1 (01:54:13):
Teeth Pod p o D.

Speaker 5 (01:54:15):
And if you want some more of the kind of
lighthearted side of conspiracy theories, UFO Sightings, Bigfoot, a little
bit of true crime, you know, with a satirical edge.
I'm lucky enough to co host a podcast with my
best friends in the world. It's called Podcast twelve eighty
nine one two eight nine.

Speaker 1 (01:54:34):
You can follow us on Twitter.

Speaker 4 (01:54:36):
Yeah, don't forget Weird New Jersey too. He right for
Weird New Jersey.

Speaker 1 (01:54:39):
Yes, Weirdnew Jersey dot com. Also on Twitter and Facebook.

Speaker 4 (01:54:43):
Jesse Pollock, thank you so much, my friend ed.

Speaker 1 (01:54:46):
Thank you for having me keep in touch. Okay, thank you,
We'll do thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:54:50):
Okay, yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:54:57):
All you guys. Thanks you got it, got all right, man.

Speaker 4 (01:55:11):
Okay, that's super weird.

Speaker 7 (01:55:12):
I had actually hung up on that.

Speaker 4 (01:55:13):
Okay, I'm exhausted. Let's see. Okay, well they had Jesse Pollock.
The book is called The Acid King, and I forget
the name of the first book. I'm exhausted. I got
pulled over by the cops like fifteen minutes before I
was doing the show, so that's why I was kind

(01:55:35):
of rushed in here and a little distracted.

Speaker 7 (01:55:38):
Let's see.

Speaker 4 (01:55:40):
Coming up next week on Saturday, we have Michelle Stevens.
Doctor Michelle Stephens. She was just on Doctor Phil there.
She has a fascinating story. But when she was brought
up a dog cage basically from the age of eight
and raped them molested by this creep of a stepfather.
Fascinating story there. Yeah, her mother just met this guy

(01:56:01):
and the guy said, hey, let me take your daughter
in my house for the week, and the mother said okay,
and that was pretty much the end of her innocence.
A lot of stuff coming up tomorrow. I'm taping with
this big story. I don't want to mention the names,
but it involves mk Ultra and a woman who was
assassinated and I have her boyfriend coming on the show.
We're gonna get to the bottom of that. A lot

(01:56:22):
of stuff going on and tape of the show Monday
about a girl here in Las Vegas who died in
a hospital. Because you have the right kind of medical insurance,
I shouldn't receive the kind of treatment.

Speaker 3 (01:56:36):
That she needed.

Speaker 4 (01:56:39):
A lot of updates and stuff going on in Oppermanreport
dot com. That's our member section where you can go
and find new content, additional content, all kind of great stuff.
Stuff you won't hear live on Friday nights. I won't
hear it live on Saturday nights. You have to log
in to Oppermanreport dot com, sign up, become a member,
and that's how you get that content only exclusive. It's

(01:57:00):
the only way to get don't forget our sponsors pscoco
dot com and email Revealer dot com and oh go
to good old subash technoses. Don't forget subash technosis dot com.
I haven't mentioned him in a while.

Speaker 7 (01:57:12):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:57:13):
Our sponsorship with them is a little more casual. But
don't need any kind of search engine mopization or a
website design or outsourcing any kind of fun stuff like that.
Subash technosis dot com. They can handle all your needs there,
any kind you need thing there any time on the Internet. Okay, guys,
I want to thank you so much. I had nothing

(01:57:34):
left to say.

Speaker 7 (01:57:35):
We just stop.

Speaker 4 (01:57:35):
The next show. Next show will be coming up is
a repeat of William Ramsey from last week, and then
Doug Campbell with the Dallas Action coming on one hour
after that will be all live, brand new content. So
stay tuned over here on a Wake radio and People's
Internet Radio and PSN Radio, and I think a couple

(01:57:58):
of those other guys too play us as well. Okay,
let me find a nice show here from uh there you.

Speaker 7 (01:58:07):
William Ramsey.

Speaker 1 (01:58:37):
H m hm hm hm h m hm h

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Jesse P. Pollack: The Acid King ( Ricky Kasso )

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

All Episodes

Jesse P. Pollack: The Acid King ( Ricky Kasso )

Stuff You Should Know