Michael Jackson Conspiracy: How the Media Went After The King of Pop

An insightful read by the New York Times Bestselling author and star of True Crime with Aphrodite Jones. Michael Jackson was the pop icon the media loved to hate. Tremendously wealthy, inarguably eccentric, and one of the most famous people in the world, Jackson was the unenviable target of constant public humiliation. The media poked fun at his skin, his features, his sexuality, and his lifestyle. Here, seasoned crime reporter Aphrodite Jones condemns the media for perpetuating hateful rumors and innuendoes, recounting just the sordid details, and reporting only the most despicable accusations and grisly charges made against Michael Jackson during his criminal trial. They had built a highly profitable industry around the superstar's "freaky life" and banked on his conviction. And, it turns out, they got it all wrong. In their efforts to make money and win ratings, the media missed the truth. It wasn't until after the "not guilty" verdict that Jones had the insight and courage to admit her own unintentional role in the frenzy surrounding the shocking testimony, high drama, and countless celebrities in Michael Jackson's high-profile criminal trial. Bestselling author and TV host Jones makes amends with what is not only a truthful, well-documented chronicle of the entire trial but a powerful indictment against the media for conspiring to distort, dehumanize, and destroy Michael Jackson. She argues convincingly that the case against Jackson amounted to nothing more than a media-made, tax-paid scandal, and she makes an impassioned call to action for the public-at-large to think critically, question the integrity, and demand the truth in the “news”.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
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(00:26):
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Speaker 2 (00:34):
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(01:16):
stuff lately. But anyway, Oppermanreport dot Com. Sign up to
come a member, help support the show. Today we have
a very very exciting guest for you, Aphrodity Jones. She
is the star of the investigation Discovery Channel TV show
A True Crime with Afrodity Jones on Monday nights at
nine pm Eastern Time. Brand new book just came out,

(01:39):
Cruel Sacrifice. But today we're gonna be talking about the
the Michael Jackson case, Michael Jackson conspiracy. So Aphrodity Jones,
are you there?

Speaker 3 (01:47):
I am hi.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
A, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Okay, great, tell us about yourself and most people know
who Afterdty Jones is okay, people have a watch Core
TV or investigation.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
That's not really true. I find out a lot of
people don't know who I am. But I've been on
TV for twenty five years. I have had eight true
crime bestsellers, three of them have been made into films.
I have been doing TV the Talk So Sure So
Talk Show Cergut for many years back in time, and
then you know, more recently, I've appeared on everything from

(02:19):
CBS to NBC, the MSNBC Dateline, you know, CNN, HLN,
you name it. And I still do those appearances at times,
even though I have my show on ID now, and
my goodness, it's been a long career of twenty five
years of crime writing, crime reporting, investigative reporting, and being

(02:40):
an author and a television commentator. So all in yes,
I covered the Michael Jackson trial for Fox News for
Bill O'Reilly, and then I covered the Scott Peterson trial
for Fox as well as the BTK killer, which is
a huge serial killer story that terrorized which your Talk
Kansas for thirty years. So I mean, it's been a

(03:02):
large gamut of things and like I say, many many
years in following crime stories and trying to make sense
of senseless things.

Speaker 5 (03:11):
Perhaps that's the best way to put it.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
And I do consider it a calling ed because many
people like the idea of true crime nowadays, not so
much when I started, and I never liked it and
I still do not like it. It is not something
that I would have chosen for myself. I originally was
a columnist that chronicle the evolution of cable television, and

(03:36):
my job was to introduce stars and have fun. And
I had a column about game shows and a column
about you know, cable, and a column about daytime soap operas,
and you know that was to me what I was.
My interest was to be in that world. It didn't
turn out that way. A girl got killed in Kentucky
and she was an FBI informant and an FBI agent

(03:59):
killed her. I almost got away with it, and I
was so infuriated by the fact that nobody in the
media covered it. Back in nineteen eighty nine, when it
happened that I wrote a book proposal, it was bought
and I wrote the book not really knowing what I
was going into, because frankly, I was so blind to
think that the SBI would have cooperated with me.

Speaker 5 (04:18):
But I did the book.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
It became a movie with Patricia Arctt starring as the
woman who was killed and Stephen Webber as the SBI agent.
And that already was twenty some odd years ago. So
from there when I wrote my second book, Curl Sacrifice,
which is now first time being released as an ebook. Ever,
that book became a New York Times bestseller at number

(04:39):
four on the New York Times List, and because of that,
I then was considered a quote veteran true crime writer,
and I couldn't get out of the field. Though I
wanted to believe me, I just couldn't I couldn't sell
anything other than true crime. Publishers didn't want anything other
than true crime. I wound up stumbling on the story

(04:59):
of Brandon t which became my book All She Wanted,
which became the movie Boys Don't Cry, which launched the
career of Hillary Swank, And from that point forward, with
the after in Place and all the rest of it,
it was just virtually impossible for me to do anything
other than true crime. And so I realize it's a
calling because I do have an empathy for the victims

(05:23):
very much. So I have dealt with killers in prisons.

Speaker 5 (05:25):
I still do.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Sometimes I have empathy for them. Sometimes they're wrongfully accused,
other times I really wonder how it is they live
with themselves and believe their lives.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
Mostly it's that, but I.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Have dealt with people who have been exonerated as well.
And at the end of the day, I guess I
lost my parents when I was young, and so seeing
it as a calling has to do more with the
fact that I understand the pain of loss and it's
something that unfortunately I have to live with every day.

(05:57):
Even though it's been so many years, forty years, it
still doesn't matter. I still suffer with. I wish my
parents were here to see what I'm doing or you know,
watch my you know, watch my accomplishments or my getting
married or whatever it is. And so's the it's the
thing that connects me to victims.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Wait a second, how did you lose your parents? Did
I miss something there? They were the crime victims.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
They were not crime victims. No, they just both died
relatively young. Each of them have heart attacks at different times,
but within a short period of each other. And that's
just how it was. And I am always had a
heart trouble. So she died young, and then my father
died not long after. So it was just one of
those freak things because at seventeen years old, you don't

(06:45):
you don't think that you're going to have no parents,
you know. So anyway, it's always stayed with me. It's
something I live with and like I say, it's it
never goes away. And so I do you understand the
emotional trauma that people go through, especially when you lose

(07:05):
somebody you meet overnight. There's no by both my parents
had heart attacks. So while it wasn't violent, it was
still absolutely shocking because they were fine when I left
the house. I came back and they were gone, both
of them forever, both of them, Yeah, each of them.
So you know, that experience is so so jolting, And

(07:26):
of course it's worse when there's a murder involved. There's
no doubt of that. I don't compare my life in
any way or shape or form to an actual victim
of a crime, but I do understand that what it
feels like to have someone there one minute and everything
is fine, and then not have them there the next
you know, it's a very crazy. It is not natural.

(07:49):
Let me put it that way. It's just not natural.
I mean, most of most people have some kind of illness,
some kind of warning, some kind of something, and you
can at least start to grieve or be a set
or prepare yourself or not prepare yourself, whatever the case
may be. But you have you have a hint, you
have a clue. And in a murder story, in a

(08:10):
in a any of the cases I cover are murders,
other than Michael Jackson being the sole exceptional that you
could argue he was murdered by Conrad Murray, which is
a separate subject. I was at that trial as well.
But you know, It's just it does feel the same
way like the person was taken from you, whether it's
because of the medicine they were on was wrong, whether

(08:32):
it was because they just have a heart attack and
no one caught it, whether it's because you know, someone
decided to take them out for whatever reason. The end
of the day, justice or no justice, you don't have
your loved one forever and ever more. And that's really
the thing in common that that I can empathize with
with with the people I have to, you know, grapple

(08:55):
with on a daily basis in what I do. And
so I would say that that's who I am.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
So that's interesting, you know, you say, because you know
you were the you went through this trauma, it makes
you sympathetic towards the victims, where whereas some of these
people who become serial killers go through that sometimes an
identical trauma as you did, but instead it deadn't something
in them and sets them off on this path of.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
You know, well, you know, interestingly enough, ed, I try
very hard to stay away from serial killer stories. And
I'll tell you why I did cover the BTK, and
it really affected me when I was at the sentence
saying watching these families who had been, like I say,
terrorized by this monster for thirty years. And he held
a job kind of a like a dog catcher type

(09:43):
of job, literally, like he was a town employee, so
he had access to his office was in the same
building as the police station, so he was a county
city worker. And all those years he was killing people
and taunting and torturing the Wichita area. When I had

(10:04):
to face those victims and actually interview them and talk
to them, I get chills. Just as I'm speaking with
you now, I wept like a child I'll never forget
in that airport in Kansas, in Wichita, in Kansas. I
just I couldn't bear the pain that was caused to

(10:25):
these people, to these families. And in the case of
a serial killer, what strikes me is no, there's no
rhyme or reason whatsoever. It's just completely senseless. It's completely insane.
You can't find a lesson in it. You can't see

(10:47):
how we can make this world a better place from it.
In that case, to me, those people have something off
in their genes, in the genetic code. And I actually
have been recent books about the anatomy of a killer
that there is proof now that there is a part

(11:08):
of the brain that is different in the mind of
a killer, any killer, but in particular serial killers where
they don't have any sense of consequence, empathy, sympathy, anything.
They just don't. They don't, it doesn't they don't think
that way. And their propensity for violence, since they have

(11:33):
no sense of consequences is can can occur and then
escalate and they enjoy it. And for me, that's not
something I want to erode. I want to go down
because it's it's just sickness, you know, it's just a sickness.
And I to me, those people should be locked up
forever and throw away the key, and they usually are.
The problem is that to catch them, and it's it's

(11:57):
just very very I find it frustrating because there's nothing
I can do in the in the murder cases I cover,
in the books I've written, and in all the episodes
I've done them in season six now at ID, each
story has a lesson whether it's you know, you should
have seen that your sister in law was having this

(12:17):
trouble and was starting to maybe you've got hints that
she was being abused, and you didn't realize you could
have made that report. You could have gone to her.
You could have done something like her husband was plotting something,
or you knew about an affair and you know the
girlfriend was jealous. Whatever the case may be. There's always
some love triangle, there's always some money angle, great angle.
But if you couldn't start to, you know, actually pay

(12:40):
attention to your family and friends, and you know, rather
than turn the other cheek, is it's not my business,
maybe it should become our business because it's possibly you
can save someone's life. And you know that said, are
we going to save everyone's lives? No, but if you
saved one life, it would be worth it. And I

(13:00):
know people are paying more attention, especially in our era today.
I mean, we're living in an era where you know,
it's not okay anymore to just say let the police
handle it. We're all going to just you know, walk
around blindly. You know. I think people are looking over
their shoulders a little more, and they should be. I
think people realize that the police aren't going to be
the panacea to the be all and the end all

(13:21):
to make their problems go away. And if there's violence
and danger around on any level, and this goes across
all classes and all races. This isn't just about gang
shootings or you know, ghetto things. This is mostly about
middle class people that you know, you would never suspect
teen girls would murder it another teenager, or in the

(13:43):
book Cruel Sacrifice, or that teen kids would would murder
a girl's parents because they are pretending they're vampires, which
is another book I wrote.

Speaker 5 (13:52):
The Embrace.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
You know you would never in Florida, you know, in
beautiful Orlando, you would never ever expect these things to
be real, and yet they are.

Speaker 5 (14:02):
And so it's.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
Something that I really, truly, it's close to my heart.
But with a serial killer, to try to answer your question,
I don't know what I've studied of them, and I
have studied it over the years, there is other than
saying that there's something wrong genetically with them, which goes
for any killer. By the way, any sociopath or psychopath
has those same traits. But with a serial killer, they

(14:26):
still don't know, you know, enough about the brain to
say it's this, this, and this, whether or not it's
there's a sociological component. I don't think there is. I
just think those people are, like I said, sick, sick individuals.
And I think also, once they've killed one, it's easier

(14:47):
to kill another. And it's very for whatever reason, gratifying
to them, satifying them. That's what I've learned, and knowing
that I don't want to give them any inch of
my time.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Ask you this, and you sent through the whole BTK trial.

Speaker 5 (15:03):
No, No, only the sentencing.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Only the sentencing.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
No, yeah, he pled guilty, right right right.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Let me ask you a question, because even in the
sentencing phase was something was do you think he acted alone?

Speaker 3 (15:16):
Oh? Absolutely, I know he did.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
What do you make of those pictures of him in bondage?
How was he able to take those pictures? He's he's
in women's clothing and lingerie and bondage, tied up, he buried.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
She staged it. They talked about it during the sentence.
He staged it. And he had a camera set up
in the basement of his parents' house, and he was
able to put the camera on a tripod and actually
stage it so he could take pictures of himself in
his victims underwear and with his victims clothing on, and
and bondage and all of that. He He was that sick.

(15:49):
He actually at one point dug a grape and apparently
the victim he was planning on killing didn't. It didn't
work out for him, if you want to say it
that way. And curarently he got into the grave and
twisted himself up into this shallow grave and took pictures
of himself in there.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Oh yeah, And that's why I'm wondering.

Speaker 6 (16:11):
Now.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
They explained this to you in a way that you
were convinced that he did.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
This, convinced, absolutely convinced this man acted alone. In fact,
I was with the Kansas State Investigation people. I was
not just with the Wichita police. I was with the
You know, every state has their own investigation arm. In
other words, like there's the FBI, but then there's the KBI,

(16:35):
Kansas Bureau of Investigation, there's the every state has their
own Fear of investigation locally, and the Kansas fere of
Investigation people. I mean, we went to the locations where
this man pulled off these murders. We went, we talked
about beyond what went on at the sentencing, what was revealed.

Speaker 5 (16:54):
And I will tell you this.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
He would sit and wait and watch a person's house
and he would spend weeks. Apparently he must have told
him this, but if there's no question in mine weeks
watching their every move and eventually what he did he
had a five minute timer. He would go break into

(17:18):
the back of the house and if the person didn't
show up on their routine within five minutes, he left.
And there was one woman who actually got home. And
what he did is he cut all the phone cords.
This is back in time they no cell phones, cut
all the phone courts. You know was in the house,
and you know with his accouturement, his stocking on his

(17:39):
head and just very I mean, the boogey Man is
beyond you can't even call him that. I don't know
what you call him. And one woman came home in
the midst of the thirty years and all the sudden
there that BTK was there. The lines were cut. She
had altered her pattern. She called her son. He came

(18:00):
over and she had come home after the five minute window,
like maybe ten minutes later or something, and they knew
his alparandi enough that they realized it was him. The
son took her out of the house and the woman
never went back into the house. Ever, somebody else had
to go in and move.

Speaker 5 (18:20):
Her stuff out.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
Boy, I mean, this is the kind of thing. Also,
he had a very creepy thing he did. He would
take photographs from magazines and cut out the face and
he would paste it onto like a cardboard, and he
would drive around in his car with the face of
somebody as he's driving around like that.

Speaker 5 (18:40):
Was his friend. But what he was doing was looking.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
For someone out there in the streets that looked like
this person. Okay, I mean the stuff I found out
on him on Dennis Raider is so creepy, so bizarre. Frankly,
no movie has done a justice, no book that I
know of. I can't say that because I haven't read

(19:02):
any books. I don't want to know more about it.
I know too much. I know enough to know this
guy acted alone. There's no doubt in my mind. There
were cachets of these weird pictures found in the police
precinct office that he had, you know, all the mementos,
his creepy taunting of the police, very zodiac like. But

(19:25):
worse because ultimately, at some point he killed someone that
lived five houses down from him. So he was just
getting more brazen and more brazen and more brazen over
the years. And you know, I mean, no, no one
helped him.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
Okay, I don't believe it.

Speaker 5 (19:44):
I wouldn't believe it.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Now you discussed about how you have sympathy for the victims,
all right, extraordinary sympathy or empathy you might call it.
But yet in the Michael Jackson case, I guess you
started out like everybody.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Else, assuming.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Okay, So then how did you come to this place?
I'd tell you this you when I booked this interview.
All my interviews about Michael Jackson has always been that
he's guilty, and I'm convinced he's guilty. So and I
was shocked to see this today, so convince me.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Oh well, there's no question that he was innocent. Let
me tell you that trial in Santa Barbara, Santa Maria,
actually it was in Santa Barbara County was such a circus.

Speaker 5 (20:27):
It was such.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
A sham that really the media should be ashamed all
the way across the board for having done what they did.
It was like a lynching of Michael Jackson. And I'll
tell you why everyone went there with the preconceived notion
that he was guilty, which, by the way, is not
the way we're supposed to handle trials. But okay, it's

(20:49):
the media. However, everybody also only wanted to cover what
was the most salacious, the most damning, the most potentially
damning information of the trial. And that went also from
my work at Fox News, where they only wanted me
on when it was, you know, the most damning information
and if I had anything to say.

Speaker 7 (21:09):
That was.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
Exculpatory ish, which I wasn't really believing he wasn't guilty
throughout the trial, so I didn't have a lot to say.
But even if I wanted to reveal some things that
seemed exculpatory, it wasn't. There was no interest in that
from the producers because that's the mentality everybody seemed to
have in covering that trial. It was like Kasey Anthony,
where all of us believe she was guilty, and I

(21:33):
still believe she's guilty, but you know, the surprise at
the end that she didn't get found guilty was like shocking.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
I wasn't surprised one bit. I predicted that they never
proved they never proved even cause of death in that case,
and so it.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Turned out that way. And I actually did an episode
on it on True Crime. If you ever get a
chance to see it, I'd love to.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Get you back on show about that because I want
to do a Casey Anthony show.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah, okay, fantastic, Well we can do that. I covered
that entire trial. It was their gavel with gabble. Nonetheless,
back to Michael Jackson.

Speaker 5 (22:04):
Here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
When the jury came back not guilty, I had my
jaw dropping like everybody else. But as they continued to
stay not guilty for all fourteen counts, there was like
literally like a curtain came up from over my eyes.
It was like, all of a sudden, I realized the
emperor had no clothes, the emperor being COM's ned and
the prosecutor why Because this family of accusers had gone

(22:34):
after Chris Tucker who testified, George Lopez who testified, Jay
Leno who testified, and I can continue to name more,
Larry King who overheard, and their lawyer who they hired
gets who they hired, Larry Feldman, who was the lawyer
for Jordy Chandler. They didn't go to the police about

(22:56):
being sexually molested. They went to Larry Feldman. Jeordy Chandler's
lay or have coincidental that they get to Michael Jackson
after they've already builket because the kid had cancer. They
builked Georgia Lopez.

Speaker 5 (23:11):
He testified to it.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
They built Chris Tucker on the set of Rush Hour,
and they wanted hotels, and they wanted to move hotels,
and they wanted this, and they wanted that, and they
what Lopez was doing charity drives for them for blood.
And turns out they had insurance. They didn't need that
for blood. But bob blah bah, everybody that testified had
another story. Jay Leno said it was to make a
wish for request and he said the kids sounded overly afu,

(23:34):
overly effusive. Those were Leno's words. And if you remember,
Leno was making a career out of making fun of
Michael Jackson being a pedophile back then. He testified as
a witness for the defense really only because they had
him on tape saying what he was saying with the kid,
and so you know the truth was that this kid,

(23:57):
Gaviner Viso, and the family were a living in the
barrio of La East, East La in a one room apartment,
a studio. So it's three kids and two parents, five
people in a studio apartment. The kid winds up with cancer.
He somehow goes to a camp where he's at a
comedy store where all these performers are performing. Lenno and

(24:20):
Tucker and Lopez, et cetera gain access to these people.
After they go through whatever they can to get moneys
and favors and freebes and charity drives out of these
people and others local LA celebrities. Then they hit the
biggest mark of all, Michael Jackson Bingo. Michael Jackson at

(24:41):
that time wanted desperately to repair his image. He couldn't
get through the payment he made to Jordi Chandler in
the nineties. It's now in the two thousands. He desperately
wants to have a makeover. He wants to get past it.
He can't. Martin Basheer enter, Martin Basher, mister Wonderful, Who's
and the only documentary on Princess Diana. And of course

(25:03):
Michael loves to be a celebrity, loves to be thinking
of himself as Royalty falls in love with this guy.
Bashir invites him to the United States. They make a deal,
unbeknownst to any of Jackson's people, that Bashir will have
complete and total access to Jackson for I don't know
how long a year, and during that time he's not

(25:23):
even he's not paying a dime. Jackson's doing it for free.
Since when does the superstar do things for free? Because
Basher has convinced him, and this is all on tape.
I've seen the tapes. We have full tapes of their
interviews that were never seen on Basher's documentary.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
How'd you get that court?

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Where'd you get that from it?

Speaker 3 (25:44):
It was shown in court?

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Okay, two and a.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Half hours the footage that was never seen.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Okay, So you get that from the defense stand or
you watched it in court.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
I watched it in court, and I also have a
copy copy I do, I do. So here's the thing is.
But Sheer convinced Michael Jackson because Michael always had the thing.
He never had a childhood, which he didn't I met
Joe Jackson. He's beyond a monster. I can't even explain,

(26:17):
not the kind of a killer monster, but just a
sociological monster. Okay, And we know Michael didn't have a child,
so he talked about it in the Sheer tapes blah
blah blah. And they're not tapes, they're videotapes, you see Michael,
and he wanted to have what he called national an
international children's holiday because in his mind, children weren't paid
enough attention to, and especially children all over the world

(26:40):
who are suffering and are you know, in their world countries,
And so he wanted to have an international children's holiday
which everything was about the child that you know, they
would have they could play, they could not go to school,
they could have you know, special events.

Speaker 4 (26:54):
And bedtime story.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Sorry it was in his bill of rights they shall
have a bedtime story.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
But I don't know about a bedtime story.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
And he had a bill of rights. He wanted for
children that they should have a bad sense.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Do you see you know more about that than I do.
That was not brought up in the theer tapes. What
was brought up was this international children's holiday, and Michael
talked specifically about things that he wanted children to have,
and butsher kept referring to it and saying, yes, we're
going to talk about your special holiday and what you
want to do for children, all the work you've done
for children, which by the way, Michael Jackson did give

(27:30):
to hospitals and children and go in in person and
bring toys and stuffed animals. No one never knows about
that because no one ever heard about it, because that
was interesting. But he did do it all his life.
And you know, so here's this family. Think about this
the Butsher documentary airs number one. Basher picked that family

(27:53):
because Michael had already helped the kid when he was
in a wheelchair with no hair in his head, and
that's when he brought them to never Land to help
this kid through his cancer. It wasn't until after the
Basher documentary aired that this family was.

Speaker 5 (28:08):
Long gone for Michael Jackson's life.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
That suddenly because Basher managed to get the kid on
the same bed with Michael. Have them hold hands, which apparently,
according to the family who testified, said was set up
by Basher. Had them hold hands. They didn't testify to it.
They talked about it in a taped interview for Michael

(28:32):
Jackson before the trial. Then they changed the story in
the trial, but the.

Speaker 5 (28:36):
Tape was shown to us. I also have a copy
of that.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
They are viso family and missus our viso janitor visa.
The mother said that Basher put their hands together, suggested
that they hold hands. Now you have that moment where
he asked them, so do you sleep in the bed together,
and Michael, trying to make up for the past, says, oh, yes,
we do. We have milicane keys, and it's all wonderful

(29:01):
and innocent.

Speaker 5 (29:02):
Boom.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
That thing goes viral. It goes around the globe. The
whole world is calling Michael Jackson, CBS President, every president
of every network, Barbara Walters sees sixty minutes, you name it.
Of course they can't get through to Michael. Michael's people
are horrified. How did he do this documentary without even
telling anyone. The one thing he did do is hire

(29:26):
his own videographer to tape everything, just as a safety
which is what I'm talking about what I have. Okay,
that's the only thing he did that was his safeguard.
The sheer ran with that, and he was the first
person to testify called to the witness stand by the
prosecution at the trial. It was that documentary that led

(29:49):
those people, the Arvizos, to go after Michael Jackson, not
as a criminal because they didn't report it to the police,
but for the money. Because they went to Larry Feldman,
which is Georgie's candler's lawyer, that got the twenty five
million dollars settlement. So now you're going to tell me
that Michael Jackson And this is when they claim it happened.

(30:12):
By the way, this is the timeline in trial, not
during when the kid had the It was in the
wheelchair and no hair in his head that needed blood
drives that Michael did for him. But after the Baser
documentary aired, when the Jackson camp said, get this family
out of the burrial, bring them up here so that
they don't start giving interviews to the National Inquirer and

(30:33):
whatever they're trying to do, right, that's when they claim
that Michael molested this boy while he's in the midst
of a firestorm of media insanity all over the globe.
This is when they say that Michael molested the boy.
Now think about.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
That for a moment, right, Okay, But but looking at
Michael's history, that's this surprives me that much.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, except except that, what do.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
You think about the Jordi Channels story.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Do you believe that one Michael was not interested in this boy?

Speaker 5 (31:10):
Okay whatsoever?

Speaker 3 (31:11):
And actually what was testified to is that the boy
was upset because Michael had dumped him once the kid
got healed and they did the documentary. Michael moved on,
but these people kept coming back to Neverland because they
wanted to feed off the fat of the land. Never
Land is twenty seven hundred acres. Neverland is not what
people think.

Speaker 5 (31:31):
It's not an amusement park.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
It's twenty seven hundred acres.

Speaker 5 (31:35):
Think about that.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
So they're living on the fat of the land. And
he's realizing seeing Michael Jackson in and out of somewhere
some building in Neverland, and realizing Michael's not having anything
to do with him anymore. So the kid is hurt
because he's thinking he's Michael's best friend, because that's the
way Michael was with kids and people. So again it

(31:59):
goes on. I can tell you more. If you read
the book, you know Michael Jackson Conspiracy, they'll understand that
not only that they claimed they were kidnapped, but yet
they were taking limousines to and from La she was
using his money to get full body waxes, and just insanity,
complete insanity. And yet the media bought it book Fun

(32:19):
and Thinker because it stood in with like you're asking
me about the Jordy chandled right narrative and so and
then when he was sound innocent. By the way, who've
talked about it, nobody. Everybody packed up, twenty four hundred journalists,
credential journalists packed up, and we're gone. Wasn't a story anymore.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
We got to take a commercial break. But I would
love to ask you some questions right now, but let's
take a little break. We're worth Aphrodity Jones. The book
we're talking about right now is Michael Jackson Conspiracy. But
if you go to Aphrodity Jones dot com, there's like,
forget it, there's a million books. Another one I'm going
to try and get into is Cruel Sacrifice That it's
a twenty year old story, but it just came back
up on a digital version available on Amazon on and

(33:00):
don't forget Investigation Discovery True Crime with Afridandy Jones every
Monday night, nine pm Pacific Standards time, Eastern sign Eastern
time Pacific nine pm Eastern time on Pacific Standards. I
don't have a show, Okay, we'll be right back with
more of after Danny Jones right after these messages. This

(33:23):
is your host, Private Investigator Ed Opperman. And if you're
enjoying the show right now, there's more.

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Speaker 8 (34:49):
The Son of a Polish immigrant who grew up in
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(35:13):
Now he's taking on Wall Street and a corrupt political
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People are sick and tired of establishment politics and a
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Enough is enough. Wall Street's greed and illegal behavior drove
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and then, after getting a huge tax mayor bailout because
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three out of the four largest banks are bigger today

(36:37):
than they were before we bailed them out. That's crazy.
I'm Bernie Sanders. My plan break up the big banks
were strangling our economy and make them pay their fair
share of taxes. Then we can invest in the middle class,
expand social security, and provide universal college education. I'll reign

(36:57):
in Wall Street behavior so they can't crash our economy again.

Speaker 9 (37:02):
Will they like me?

Speaker 8 (37:03):
No?

Speaker 10 (37:04):
Will they begin to play by the rules of I'm president?
You better believe it. I'm Bernie Sanders, Democratic candidate for president,
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Speaker 2 (37:18):
You know you can get a copy of my book
how to Succeed as a Private Investigator. If you go
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a limited edition book, okay, and you can get a
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(37:39):
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Speaker 6 (37:51):
He's fought injustice and inequality his whole life, Bernie Sanders.
As a college student, he was arrested for challenging segregated housing.
Bernie marched with doctor King and thousands of others for
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(38:11):
banks and a corrupt political system that keeps in place
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Speaker 9 (38:25):
Bernie Sanders, there is no president who will fight hard
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Speaker 6 (38:38):
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Message paid for by Bernie twenty sixteen.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Okay, welcome back to the Opperman Report. I'm your host,
private investigator at Opperman. We're here with Afrodettie Jones, author
of MIKEL Jackson Conspiracy. You can also find out Afridaity
Jones on Investigation Discovery every Monday night, nine pm Eastern
Standard Time, True Crime with Aphrodity Jones.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Are you there?

Speaker 3 (39:10):
Yes, I'm here. Actually, the show is all across the country.

Speaker 5 (39:14):
It's on nine pm, also a Pacific time.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Okay, of course it would be, of course, all right,
I'm just so excited to answer you the next question.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
I'm kind of stumbling over myself here.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Now, wouldn't you agree, Okay, Okay, the Orvizo family is
a troubled family. Okay, but what at you troubled?

Speaker 5 (39:33):
I'm sorry, beyond trouble.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
They grifters.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
But now, wouldn't you agree that pedophiles and convicted sex
defenders target children from trouble families just like Jordi Chandler
was from a trouble family as well.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
Well, you know, here's the thing. If I hadn't heard
the testimony of Chris Checker, who talked about how they
got to him and how they on the set of
Ours Are Two were demanding, and how went to Michael
and said watch out, Mike, don't let these people in
your life, if I hadn't heard George Lopez testify that

(40:08):
knowledge did he take them to his home and buy
clothes and this and that for them, but that also
they claimed that they lost their wallet at his house,
and when he found the wallet that they claimed there
was hundreds of dollars that was in it that was missing,
and Lopez's assistant apparently replaced that money when the money
was never there.

Speaker 5 (40:28):
These are the kind of testimonies that.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Came out during the trial. And again Jay Leno's saying
that he got a call from this kid. And Leno
is somebody who would make anyone's wish come true. He's
truly a giving soul. I've met the man. I've seen
him do charity work beyond anyone's wildest dreams. And he
testified that he did not trust the voice of this
kid on the phone that the kid sounded coached. He

(40:52):
could hear a woman in the background, and he was
quote overly effusive in asking for whatever favor it was.
These people were gris and litters by the way. They
hounded for fun and drive fundraiser, but drives to the
point that he had done some of it and then
he couldn't continue to do more, and they were after
him and hounding him. He testified to this, I'm.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Wanting to concede. I'm willing to concede that they're grifters. Okay,
may not be my opinion, but I want to concede
that point because I don't think it's important. Because even
the parents again of Jordie Chandler's, they've been accused of
being grifters as well.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Uh, and they made they would negotiate.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
And I've read the transcripts to the negotiations between Pelicano
and the father over that little boy. Sorry, yeah, okay,
anything you don't know. Sorry, And Pelicano today people should
know not is in prison. This is Michael Jackson's proud
investigators in prison for possession of C four explosive and
hand grenades and all kinds of activities.

Speaker 5 (41:50):
But they had nothing to do with Michael Jackson, by
the way.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
But I mean, it's the guy he chose to hire.
It doesn't matter to negotiate with a kid.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
I was at his sentence thing. He's his own man.
Remember that Jackson wasn't the only one who hired mister Pelicano.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
On what do you make of the Jordi Chandler case.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
What do you make of the Jordi Chandler case is
entirely a different matter, because you know, that's a situation
where for whatever reason, Michael gave a twenty five million
dollar payout. And from what I do know through the
Pelicano tapes and transcriptions for what I saw June Chandler
testified at the Rviso trial, at the Jackson trial, and

(42:34):
all I can say is all of it seemed very
questionable to me. However, nothing was proven. And with that said,
at the end of the day, you know, one of
the things that I've always find curious with Michael Jackson

(42:56):
is that he did have the mentality of a child.
Seems up until the day he died, he really just
never whatever part of his brain that got stuck in
the adolescent child's says stayed there and because of that,
if you'll notice any of these accusers who have been

(43:17):
given their million dollars or whatever they were able to
eke out of Jackson over the years, if you'll notice,
none of them have ever said that he raped them.

Speaker 5 (43:26):
None of them have.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Ever said that he there was actual intercourse, None of
them have ever said that the kind of sexual acts
that are unspeakable, but that they would have referred to
with trying to get the monies out of Jackson that
they did so. I truly believe that he had a
need for that, an adolescent kind of exploratory if you will, sexuality,

(43:54):
if that's what it was, and I don't believe anything
more than that went on. Honestly, does that make him
a pedophile? I mean yeah, the answer is it doesn't.

Speaker 5 (44:04):
It doesn't clear.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
Him of being a pedophile. But I was not I
am not present. There was no trial with Jeordi Chandler
and the kids who testified, by the way, at the
Orvisa trial, some of them said that they were scarred
for life because Michael Jackson tickled me over my pants,
over my genes, and somehow were able to squeeze a

(44:27):
million dollar settlement out of him.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Well, I got to tell you that for that. You know,
I'm a grown man now, but from when I was
thirteen years old, if a grown man was tickling me
my genofiles through my jens, I would be I would
remember that to this day.

Speaker 5 (44:38):
You remember it? Would you be?

Speaker 10 (44:39):
So?

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Would that have caused you to have to go into
therapy for ten years?

Speaker 2 (44:45):
I think I've been to therapy for less than that.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
You know, Yeah, I cannot.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
I can't condone that, Okay, whatsoever? And also to you
talk about how why would you say anything?

Speaker 3 (44:57):
I'm just questioning they of the statements people, I'm condoning nothing.

Speaker 5 (45:02):
I'm condoning pedophilia.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
No, no, I don't think I said that.

Speaker 5 (45:05):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
Well, what I'm saying is, uh, you say that you no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
I'm asking specific.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Questions the trial that happened in Santa Maria.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Right, and you're saying that's no doubt of that.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
You don't think mind whatsoever. You read the book and
you will see he was set up from the get
go by Martin Busheer and then the prosecutor and the
Scrifter family. What happened in the past with each individual
case is also something for scrutiny, something for question, and
something that in the case of Jeority Chandler, I really

(45:42):
have to think twice about, because I'm not willing to
go that far to say that nothing happened there. I
think that that would be foolish of anybody to think
that nothing happened there. But I am also saying to
you Ed that on some bizarre level, for Michael Jackson,
a one of a kind person in this world, he
had a one of a kind proclivity that was perhaps

(46:06):
I mean obviously destroyed kids minds or whatever happened. I
don't know, but it was I believe in his mind
he was still that agent.

Speaker 5 (46:19):
It was okay, it wasn't.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
It's not clear to me that you can put him
in a category of what we consider to be pedophiles.
I don't think he thought he was going after young kids,
that's the point. Well, yeah, he thought he was a
peer of these kids.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, but who cares what he thinks. He's still it's
what the law is, first of all. But my question
is this, You keep saying that after he was taped
holding hands with this little boy and the Bisher video,
that it would just be unreasonable and unthinkable for him
to then start molesting this kid when all the scrutiny
was upon.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Him und months later. Right, and yes, and.

Speaker 5 (46:58):
I'll tell you why.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
But why would in the Jordy Chandler case, he was
in their home, in this kid's bedroom for days and
days and days not leaving that bedroom. That's pretty extreme. Yeah,
that's pretty extreme behavior as well. I think he gets off.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
On I kind of extreme uh twenty problem.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
The problem is testimony of the two boys that were
their viso boys don't match as to when this quote
unquote molestation occurred and who witnessed it. Number one, number two.
According to the kid's own mouth, he wasn't sure if
he was molested two, three, or four or five times.
There's a lot of problems with their testimony. I have

(47:39):
the police tapes as well, and I will tell you
that they are not believable. The jury, the foreman of
the jury, who I interviewed for my show True Crime
I did an hour on this, okay, said that the jury,
the final crowning piece was that they did not believe
not only the testimony of the accuser, but did they

(48:00):
believe the initial statements of the accuser to the police,
and they watched that video over and over again to
see if there was any truth to it. I have
that video. I've seen the video. I've watched it myself
a few times. And I asked the court clerk when
I was watching that video the first time, I don't
have a thirteen year old boy, I don't have a
teen child. Is this how a teen child would discuss

(48:22):
having sex or being involved in sex with anybody? And
she said absolutely not. So all I can go by
is what the jury thought, what impartial parties thought, and
what I now think looking at it. The kid, Yes,
kids don't like to talk about being molested, and you
get that, and you know that. You go in watching

(48:43):
the video thinking that.

Speaker 5 (48:44):
You get that.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
But this kid was having police put words in his mouth,
and you watch it and you see it. And so again,
there's a reason the jury found Michael Jackson innocent, and
it wasn't because they were, you know, impressed by his stardom.
Believe me, these people took their jobs very seriously. I

(49:07):
interviewed not just the foreman, more than one juror on
on that trial, and these people took their job very seriously,
and they sat there, they listened to all the evidence
and they realized what it was. It was a game
by a bunch of drifters who were looking for a
big payout, and it was a way for a prosecutor,

(49:29):
namely Tom Senden, to get back at Jackson for the
case he never was able to try regarding Jordi Chandler
because there was a settlement. That's what that was all about.
My opinion. Yeah, and I will never change it because
I lived it.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Okay, clarify a couple of things from you said you've
never had any teen children yourself.

Speaker 5 (49:49):
No, I don't have any children.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Okay, we're just checking. Okay, now, just to clarify. You know,
I'm a defense investigator. I like to you know, I
want my clients to see a fair trial every time.
And I don't mind if my client gets a better
deal than he deserves. You know, I'll go along with that.
So I have no problem with a guy getting off
on a case. Now, as far as Snedden goes, he

(50:12):
has no history of any kind of complaints against him,
does he?

Speaker 3 (50:16):
He has a history of going around the world trying
to find people to charge Michael Jackson with molestation against.

Speaker 5 (50:25):
Did you know that?

Speaker 4 (50:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (50:26):
Actually, did the country to try to bring people in
to try to continue to try Michael Jackson. It was
a mission for him for his wife.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Well because some of that, some of these other Yeah, sure,
I know this case where he will and even even before,
by the way, I'm gonna ware of this case before
Jordie Chandler. I've heard about these allegations before Jordi Chandler
became public. I didn't want to spring that on you,
but you know, but the thing is, I've thought.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
About the allegations too. None of us are living in
a bubble here, Okay. I mean I have friends who
claim they've seen him with little boys in Mexico an elevator.
I don't know. I wasn't there, you weren't there. All
I know is that from what I'm telling you, the
trial that happened in Santa Maria was a sham and

(51:12):
it was a game. Now, what happened prior to that,
some of it, I don't know if I believe some
of it. Maybe I do believe. I don't know what
to believe anymore because the man is dead and gone.
But I will say this without a doubt. The media
wanted to lynch Michael Jackson, and they managed to do
it because.

Speaker 5 (51:31):
After that trial he never really recovered.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
He left the country and by the time he got
back here, he was already you know, physically and mentally gone.
That's what happened to Michael Jackson.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
Right.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
You know what I'm not too Son, is that the
focus of your book is that he was treated unfairly
by the media.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
No, the focus of my book is what happened in
the trial.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Right, Okay, now, because besides, and you talk about them,
but sheer video. But beside, he talked about sleeping with
other boys in his bed, the Macaulay Culkin boy and
his younger brother. But it was all innocent and it
was all okay.

Speaker 4 (52:13):
Now, that that alone.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Should raise concern, But also too on there on video.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
He seems that nothing ever happened.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
You do know that, I do know that. But still
it's more than wildly inappropriate for a grown man to
be sleeping in a bed with strange little boys.

Speaker 8 (52:34):
Ed.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Ed, Why are we having this conversation? How many people
have had this conversation for years on end. We know
that we feel it's inappropriate. It's not a question do
you think that I'm sitting here saying oh, it's everybody
sleeps with little boys in their bed. Of course we
know that's not the case. Michael Jackson had a chimpanzee named.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Bubbles, right, Okay, I mean it was also abused by.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
The way, you know, I mean, what was it from
Michael Jackson's life that was normal?

Speaker 5 (53:02):
Exactly right.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
It's a pattern of behavior, even in the video he's
dangling his.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
In all the aspects of his life.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yeah right, not just not just.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
The accusations about whether or not he was a pedophile,
but all the other bizarre things he had in his life.
But what's the pattern of having chimpanzees and lamas and
animals and wanting the friends of the He would talk
about how animals were his friends. He wanted to have
a celebrity animal birthday party. I mean, what is normal

(53:35):
about Michael Jackson?

Speaker 10 (53:38):
Right?

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Nothing normal, including his disregard for his own children. That
he dangled a baby from a terrace, and that.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Is such an unfair characterization of him, by the way.
That was part of the Basher documentary, which was shre
was lucky enough to have brought along to Germany with
Jackson in his one hour, one year tour with Michael
and by the way, Mike, I'll hold that baby out
because he had hundreds, if not thousands, of fans below
waiting and wanting to see his new baby. If you

(54:07):
watch what Michael said about it, which you can't because
it's all the tapes that were never shown, Michael says,
I never was holding a baby out so that he
could be falling. I showed my fans my baby because
they were begging to see him. I held them up
for a second or to a few seconds so they
could see him. And the media ran it over and

(54:30):
over and over again, making it look like I was
trying to throw my baby over a balcony. I have
that tape.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Well yeah, I heard him say that too, but my god,
it is. I can't think of anything more irresponsible than
holding Whether the fans are screaming, I don't care if
it's a million fans, I don't care if they got
guns down there.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
I'm not going to hang my kid over the balcony.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
I they'll know that you would be having a balcony
with hundreds of people's underneath you begging you to show
them your baby.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Either if they step far a building.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
I went to hang my baby out the window. I'm
my god. Okay, well I tell.

Speaker 5 (55:03):
Them for fifteen seconds.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Even one second? Well, for what point?

Speaker 3 (55:07):
For what point did show his fans who are begging
to see the baby? You know, here's the thing, ed, Yeah,
and this is what really what you've got my hair
standing up on its end, is that everything you're saying
are all the uh accepted inappropriate behaviors of Michael Jackson

(55:29):
that just fish for whatever reason, because the media decided
to blow it up beyond belief. It's just that's all
we want to remember about this person. You know, you
try having a camera on you every minute of your
life and stalkers and paparazzi and everything else.

Speaker 5 (55:50):
You see what that feels like.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
I got a taste of it being at that trial,
and let me tell you.

Speaker 5 (55:55):
It was not fun. Not fun.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
And so you know, you can't look at Michael Jackson's
every move and decide to scrutinize whatever it was he
did because the media was able to capture it on
a film and run it over and over and over
again to the point that that's what we remember. Well,
put it on splash it on the covers of brag
magazines endlessly.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Well, okay, the like the media. This documentary film company
Jinx followed William Durst right, and they caught him confessing
to murder for one second. Movie, So he only did
it for one second. He only held a baby out
there for one second. He was only holding hands at
this little boy in admitting he slept in a bit
in the bed with his little boy for one second. Sure,
it's all one second because we were lucky enough to

(56:40):
capture this on film and see what he was doing.

Speaker 5 (56:43):
Okay, look, I see that this is going to go
nowhere with you.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Well, we got a couple of minutes anyway.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
I get your point.

Speaker 5 (56:49):
Yeah, you think he's guilty.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
I'm telling you I think he's not. And I think
we need to leave it at that because I am
not going to continue to go around the rosie with
you on this. I could, but I'm getting aggravated and
I really don't like to be aggravated in interviews.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Okay, now I can tell you be an aggravator.

Speaker 4 (57:04):
I don't want you to be aggravator.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Okay, we only got a couple of minutes left anyway.

Speaker 5 (57:08):
Okay, great, So I'm not going to convince you, and
you're not going to convince you.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Well, no, of course, but you know, I'm sorry you
didn't enjoy your time on the show. I really am,
because I thought you'll enjoy it.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
I just don't like to be so so argumentative. It's
just not my style. Okay, you know, I mean really
and clearly, we are not going to convince each other now.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Now, I'm very convinced of this case. I've been dealing
with this before the anyway before Okay, I'm.

Speaker 5 (57:40):
Very convinced, way after right, very convinced.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
You want to real quick tell us about Cruel Sacrifice.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Cruel Sacrifice is a story of four teenage girls that killed, tortured,
and burned alive a twelve year old girl because of
a lesbian love triangle that, for whatever reason, they decided
a twelve year old knew she was a lesbian. It
is the most twisted tale of psychological trauma, and how

(58:13):
these girls got to be where they were through peer
pressure and bizarre home behaviors of their families is really
what the book's about. So the crime is something that
happens early on, but it's really the psychological drama that
leads these girls at fifteen and sixteen years old to

(58:34):
do what they did. And that's what the book explores,
and it tells it through the eyes of the chill
of the teenagers, of the of the girls who whom
I interviewed. It's a very compelling, mortifying story about something

(58:57):
that happened in America with teen violence that before any
of the teen violence that we're quote unquote used to
seeing these days. And frankly, when I wrote it, I
had no idea that it would have be impact it
did on teens and coming generations. But it has, and
it was a cult classic back in time, and it

(59:18):
is now just been released as an ebook and it's
already number fifteen on Amazon, and that's because it's a
completely different story than Michael Jackson. I'm not trying to
convince anyone of anything in it. I'm chronicling something that happened,
a crime that never should have happened. And why the backdrop,
as I talked to you in the beginning of this interview,

(59:39):
why some of the signs, many of the signs which
were ignored should not have been.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Okay, after Dity, we've got ten seconds left. We got
ten seconds left, Thank you so much, Aphrodity Jones. We we're
talking about Michael Jackson, conspiracy and also cruel sacrifice. It's
just rereleased right now Investigation Discovery, nine pm, Monday nights.
Thank you so much for Ddy Joan, Thank you, Ed,