April 12, 2023 • 33 mins
Camp Scott was a place of peace, happiness, and beauty until someone snuck in the middle of the night and murdered three innocent Girl Scouts. Since the airing of this show, we learned something musical theatre dorks like me would love! The one and only Kristin Chenoweth would have been on this very trip had she not been ill. Isn't it fascinating how something small like that can totally change the outcome of our lives? Originally broadcast October 21, 2020.
Written by Schuyler Fastenau and executive produced by Daniel Jones. Additional voices by Sophia Sassone, Tamara Perry, Ariel Dale, Taylor Shurte, Marissa Pistone, Rainee Blake, Matt MacNelly, Daniel Jones, Vince Perez, Jordan Katcher, Grant Knakaoka, Janette Zosche, and Jeremy Staple. Cover artwork by Catherine Fastenau. Theme music by Tracy Zales.
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Written by Schuyler Fastenau and executive produced by Daniel Jones. Additional voices by Sophia Sassone, Tamara Perry, Ariel Dale, Taylor Shurte, Marissa Pistone, Rainee Blake, Matt MacNelly, Daniel Jones, Vince Perez, Jordan Katcher, Grant Knakaoka, Janette Zosche, and Jeremy Staple. Cover artwork by Catherine Fastenau. Theme music by Tracy Zales.
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Check out our other shows:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Okay, buy a show of hands. How many of you were a girl
or boy Scout. It's funny becauseI can't see you, but if you
did raise your hand, thank youfor taking part in my survey. I
can tell you I did not raisemy hand because I was not in the
Boy Scouts of America. I rememberin first grade getting a pamphlet about it.
(00:27):
Though my school used to send homeall kinds of flyers with students,
and while I was usually good aboutmaking sure my parents saw every single one,
I'm sure most kids littered them beforegetting home. I was sitting at
our kitchen table in the fall oneevening, and probably a week or two
before, we had been given theall important notice that the Boy Scouts were
(00:49):
coming to our school to recruit freshyoung men to join them, and it
seemed kind of cool, so I'dfigured I'd go to this meeting with my
dad. In my mind, wewere going to be building camp fires Wittenly
the way at Wood and doing other, you know, stereotypical boy things at
this meeting, and that seemed prettyfucking rad to me. As I sat
at the table, slurping my mom'sspaghetti dinner, it suddenly hit me that
(01:11):
I have to go back to schoolto do this meeting, and well,
that wasn't going to fly with me. I pushed my dinner away, went
into the family room where my parentswere watching World News Tonight with Peter Jennings,
and announced that I was renouncing mymembership with the Boy Scouts before it
even began. This is probably forthe better too, seeing us well their
(01:32):
belief on the gaze like me,was quote that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with
the obligations and the Scout Oath andScout law to be morally straight and clean
and thought word and deed. Butenough about the boys, Let's talk about
the girls. In all honesty,I care more about the Girl Scouts because
(01:53):
der they have cookies. Sure,Boy Scouts have popcorn. But I didn't
even know that existed until it poppedup in a sketch I was in my
junior year of high school. Ilook back now and wonder if maybe I
did miss out on something wonderful bynot going to that first meeting. And
then I read about Camp Scott Welcometo Deadtime stories. Come on, girls,
(02:47):
hustle ups and brad throat bag Let'sget on these buses. It was
a sunny Sunday June twelfth, nineteenseventy seven, in Locust Grove, Oklahoma,
and roughly one hundred and forty younggirls ran around a parking lot.
Since nineteen twenty eight, the GirlScouts ran an annual two week getaway at
Camp Scott, and more often thannot, the girls fell in love with
(03:09):
camping and returned year after year.Fifteen year old Michelle Hoffman recently aged out
of the camp, but was excitedto aid the camp director this year.
It all went well, she'd starttraining to be a counselor, and then
one day, the camp director asshe marked a few items off her checklist,
one little girl in particular caught hereye for two reasons. For starters,
(03:32):
this young lady was one of onlya handful of African American girls going
to Camp Scott that summer, andfor another, she was crying to her
mother, Oh baby, you're okay. I don't want to go, Mama,
I want to stay with you now, Baby girl, you've been begging
me to go on this trip formonths. My team scary now, but
(03:52):
you'll make lots of friends, andbefore you know it, you'll be telling
me how much you can't wait togo back. Hey, there the long
phase. Denise is a little homesickalready. Michelle looked down her list.
Ah, Denise Milner, and youmust be her mother, Betty. I'm
Michelle, and you'll be in mysection at Camp. I remember when I
(04:14):
first came to Camp Scott. You'reso scared of the woods at first,
But once you unfurl that sleeping backand meet your tentmates, you'll be so
excited. Here we can sit togetheron the bus, so it's less scary.
Ten year old Denise timidly walked awayas her mother gently tugged on Michelle's
elbow. Will you promise me you'llhelp call home if she doesn't feel better?
Well, miss Milner, that's notprotocol. We find it makes their
(04:36):
homesickness even worse. Promise me you'llmake an exception for Denise. Michelle thought
it over before giving Betty a gentlesmile and boarding the bus herself. Michelle
took a seat next to Denise,who solemnly waved goodbye to her mother,
like a soldier going off to war. We usually sing camp songs to pass
(04:57):
the time. You know any camsongs? Oh, you will soon come
on just repeat after me. Michellesmiled down warmly at Denise, who,
with the parking lot behind her,was beginning to feel a little more excited.
She pulled back her hair with apink clip and started to sing with
Michelle. Just a short hour anda half later, the bus pulled onto
(05:21):
the narrow Cookie trails. An excitedhush fell over the girls as the trees
began to shroud their view. Remembergirls, hold your breath as we passed
this street, or the ghosts willget you boom. Don't worry, Denise,
there aren't any real ghosts. Soonthe bus pulled in and the girls
(05:46):
were unloading their belongings. Michelle walkedwith Denise in their section of tents and
the Kiowa unit. Each unit wasnamed after an indigenous tribe cultural appropriation in
its prime, which makes me cringeto think about. Here we are tent
number eight. This is by farthe best one. I stayed here nearly
(06:08):
every year. Oh and look doyou see that building? Yes, ma'am,
that's the latrine. Your tent isthe closest one to it, so
you'll have to walk the least amountof distance if you need to releave yourself
at night. An eight year oldgirl with two long, blondish pigtails,
poked her head out of the tentflap. Michelle's just here, a brunette
with glasses and gapped front teeth,pushed by the pigtailed girl. Hi,
(06:30):
yeah, you're Denise, right,guys, this is gonna be a lot
of fun. I'm Michelle, andthis is Lorie. Hi. Denise walked
into the tent and counselor Michelle Hsmiled and walked off. Bring anything cool,
Denise, Just a sleeping bag andsome clothes. You got playing cards.
(06:53):
I brought playing cards and hair brushesand stuff. I wanted to bring
my plants with me, but mothersaid no, I wouldn't need em.
Golly, I hope she's watering myafrikin violets like I asked her. Oh.
I loved those, They're so pretty. The three girls had never met
(07:13):
until now, and although they wereinitially the quietest group, once the campfire
songs had been sung and the camperswere settling into bed, they were just
as noisy as the others. MichelleH pulled back the flat. Your girls
settling into bed and staying dry,Yes, ma'am, j Michelle, you
think it don't rain every night we'rehere. That thunderstorm was the wildest.
(07:36):
Hopefully not, but even if itdoes, we have plenty of activities to
keep you busy. Now go tosleep or you'll miss the excitement. Oh
do we have to? Michelle Hchecked behind her to ensure the coast was
clear, and then leaned in witha grin. They always say yes,
but sometimes we turn a deaf earif you stay up telling ghosts. Are
(08:01):
all right, girls, good night. Michelle H continued her rounds until one
by one the campers fell asleep.Around one thirty, Michelle H stirred in
her tent. Hey did any ofyou hear that? Probably a rabbit or
(08:24):
something. Michelle H wasn't satisfied withthat answer, grabbed her flashlight and headed
out into the pitch darkness. Theysay Camp Scott was shrouded and complete black
at night. You could never tellthe difference between having your eyes open or
closed. During the day, thearea was friendly enough, with girls running
(08:48):
around giggling, but at night everythingfelt sinister. Michelle carefully shined her flashlight
beam across the area harshly, hopingto find the source of this strange moaning
and harshly, hoping that she wouldn'tprobably a prank. Not finding anything,
Michelle returned to her tent and fellback asleep. For the next hour,
(09:16):
everything went back to normal, andthen in tent number seven, one spot
over from Denise Laurie and Michelle G'stent, another girl scout groaned as a
flashlight beam fell through the tent flapand into her eyes. Turn the light
off A quiet Amy, it's justthe counselor's scene. If you're asleep.
Oh yeah. The girl scouts weresoon asleep again, but this would only
(09:41):
last thirty minutes or so. Aroundthree, Amy, did you hear that?
Yeah? She should we get Michelleh I don't want to go out
there. Me neither. Well maybeit's a prank. Yeah, that's it.
A can I sleep with you?I's going to come asleep with you.
(10:05):
The terrified girls zipped the sleeping bagover their heads and tried not to
cry. Around six, Counselor Carlawill Height stretched and made her way to
the showers. She passed tent numberone, two, three, and so
on until she arrived at Tent numbereight. She rubbed her sleepy eyes and
(10:28):
swatted a fly from her arm girls, What are you doing out? Carla's
question was cut short. About onehundred yards from Tent number eight were three
colorful lumps. One was red withflowers, another was plaid, and the
third was Oh Lord, Denise.Carla was in shock. She took a
(10:50):
few more weak steps towards the lumpsand immediately knew that something terrible had happened
in the night. Forgetting all abouther shower, Carlos branted to the camp
director and camp nurse. As theywaited for police. Carla and Michelle h
stared anywhere but at the bloody sleepingbags. We can't let these girls know
(11:15):
anything is wrong. We have tokeep them occupied, sing songs and things.
Michelle h nodded as she waited forthe inevitable. The thought of putting
on a bright face for these innocentgirls terrified her, but she knew she
had to do it. This isterrible. Someone came in and killed three
(11:35):
of our kids. Sheriff Pete Weaverssoon arrived and felt his stomach turn as
the voices of singing girl scouts carriedover from some distance away. God,
they have no idea what happened.No, sir, we're waiting for the
buses to pick them off. Thankyou, miss you better go watch them.
This isn't a place for a woman. I found the girls, sir.
(11:56):
This way Carla and the camp directorled the sheriff's team to the bodies.
A coroner shook his head as heexamined the trauma. These two,
he pointed to, Laurie and Michellege each have blunt forced trauma to the
head. And the African American girl, Denise, as we know her,
seems to have been strangled with achord of some kind. And God,
(12:20):
the sickle raped the three of them. Can't be look at this scuff marks
in the dirt. Little girl putup a fight before he got her and
the others. They were already deadby the time he dropped them off.
Here which tent were the girls ineight? I didn't want to look inside.
Oh Jesus Christ. The tent wasmassacred with blood soaking everything. He
(12:46):
probably snuck in the back and beattheir skulls in. I think there's a
reason he chose these three. Hprobably didn't know them. This tents the
furthest from the others, so itwas easiest for the sick ba Askeda to
get in and out you okay,young lady, you've been awful quiet.
Oh yes, sir, it's justwell. I can't help but feel that
(13:13):
this is my faults. I shouldhave heard them last night. I should
have warned someone about what happened.Don't blame yourself, babe. You tried
to tell me last night, notlast night, our training weekend. I
forgot about that. You see,we did a special kiddet training session a
(13:35):
few weeks before camp started. Wehad been out all morning, and I
say, came back to my tent. Something felt wrong. Oh come on,
Carla, did you raid my tentthis morning? Because I'm new?
No, but that's a good idea. We'll have to remember that for next
Oh my goodness. There are boxesknocked over everywhere. Yeah, and the
(13:58):
worst part is someone eat my donuts. I was saving those. Hey,
what's that Is that a note?I don't know it fell out of the
box. There are like four orfive pages here, and oh pros.
The first two or three just saykill over and over again. Oh jeepers,
(14:20):
greepers, what what what's to say? We're on a mission to kill
three girls. You'd better watch outthis summer. I'm gonna sneak in the
middle of the night and snatch themup. Then I'll beat them up real
good. But oh, dream onwhat, don't worry about the pain they're
(14:43):
in. When the alien ship abductsthem, they'll be cured. This is
so bog but we got to tellthe director, you know. So like
when we took the note to thedirector, she was really serious about it,
(15:03):
you know. But a few girlsconfessed to writing the note, so
we totally forgot about it. Butwe don't know if they actually wrote it
or just said they did. Sothe director stopped dipping into everyone's cool aid.
Thank you, ladies. Well,it sounds like the buses are here.
Maybe you should go help your campersload up, preferably avoiding this area,
Yes, sir, any ideas whoit might be? One guy comes
(15:28):
right into my mind and he's beenescaping my clutches for four years now.
Who's that? Jean le Roy Hart? Mama, Mama, whoa slow down,
(16:00):
baby girl, wipe your feet beforeyou trump inside my house? Sorry,
mama, but I got the coolestnews. My troop's going to Camp
Scott this summer, are they now? These things cost money? You know?
I know, and I broke itdown right here. See, if
I sell enough cookies this year,I'll have more than enough money to go.
Denise, Baby, you've always beenherd to go places. How's a
(16:25):
girl like you going to balance cookiesales with gymnastics, tap classes and church
choir. That's a lot for anybody, let alone a fifth grader. Help
do it somehow, Mamma. Denise'smother, Betty, took a seat at
the kitchen table, shaking her headand chuckling as she wrote a check to
the electric company. I'm impressed,baby, you raised more than enough money.
(16:49):
I don't think I want to goanymore. Some friends that they ain't
going anymore, so I don't thinkI want to go either. Oh no,
ma'am, you've worked too hard tothrow this opportunity away. Mmmmm,
but Mama, you've never let mesteal. No butts about it. March
to your bedroom and pack your bag. Denise trudged away, then turned back
(17:10):
to her mother and said, missusMilner, please come to the principal's office.
What miss Milner to the principal's officeplace? Betty shook her head and
found herself staring up at a blackboardfrom the back of a classroom. The
summer school students all stared back ather. Missus Milner, did you hear
that Principal Jones wants you? Butdon't worry, I can handle these students.
(17:32):
Betty nodded and quietly excused herself.By the summer of nineteen seventy seven,
Betty was divorced from her husband,Walter and worked as a teacher's aide
so she could properly raise her twodaughters. Please take a seat, miss
Milner's a It's about Denise. Lord, I knew she'd get homesick. I
(17:52):
never should have let her go tothat camp. Is it all right if
I go to pick her up?Principal Jones exchanged looks with his assistant pile
and his eyebrows knit together. Actually, Miss Milner, Denise doesn't need to
be picked up. Denise's dead,she and two other girls. Betty's heart
dropped into her stomach as she registeredthe horrible news. It seems that she
(18:17):
was baiting and and riped. OhLord, no, not my baby girl.
Are you sure it was a murder. She didn't fall into the lake
or something. I could accept that, but not a murder. What about
my other daughter? Kathy, Willthey go after her next? Now,
(18:37):
Miss Milner takes some deep breaths anddrink this water. The police will take
you through everything, but please gohome, rest and lock the doors.
There might be a sex killer.I'm release. While Betty and the other
parents were receiving news of the murdersand the girl Scouts were loading the buses
blissfully unaware that three of their ownwere missing, Sheriff Weaver and his team,
(19:02):
along with five hundred volunteers, combedthe surrounding area for the murderer,
who they were certain was Gene LeroyHart. What makes you so sure it's
mister Hart, Sheriff. We've beenhunting this guy down for years, and
I think he's been hiding right underour noses. Sixth son of a bitch
abducted two gals back in sixty sixand raped one of them. He was
in jail right, yes, Sir, supposed to serve three concurrent ten years
(19:27):
sentences, but they've rolled him aftertwenty eight months. Then I got him
three hundred and five years for fourcounts of first degree burglary in sixty nine.
He escaped about four years ago.Sheriff Weaver wouldn't find Jeane during this
initial search, but they did comeacross a network of caves overlooking the camp.
(19:48):
I'll be look at this note scrawledon the wall. The killer was
here. Bye bye fools. Wealso have some groceries, bandages, cigarettes,
web, photographs, and a bunchof other stuff. Does it mean
anything? Sure? Does Jean developedphotographs in jail. We can see if
these match the negatives he was given. I'll send the bandages and cigarettes to
(20:11):
the lab and see if we canget a match to him from the hairs
and saliva left on him. Sure. If Weaver wouldn't be alone in his
efforts to track Gene, Banks setup reward funds for anyone who could offer
information leading to his capture, andpeople from as far away as Florida donated
money. By August, Tulsa Worldnewspaper published a letter to Gene asking him
(20:33):
to surrender, with Governor David Bouren'sassurance that he'd receive a fair trial.
Nothing came of it, and aftermonths and months of searching, the media
frenzy on the case fizzled out.Chief Inspector Wilkerson here fascinating, Thank you
(20:56):
sir, We'll take a look.When it seemed like the Girl Scout murders
were forgotten, a tip came throughthe wire at the Oklahoma State Bureau of
Investigation or OSBI. It was Thursday, April sixth, nineteen seventy eight,
ten months since the murders. ChiefDick Wilkerson led his team to a cabin
(21:21):
in the woods. No surprise therewhere, according to the tip, they'd
find Jean. The cabin belonged tohis friend Sam Pigeon, a medicine man.
Go ahead and take him. Don'tkill him unless you have to,
but he can't get away. Ifhe's in there, he'll probably try to
run out the back, so makesure you're ready. Back there, Someone
handed Dick a megaphone. Jane,you're surrounded. Come out. As expected,
(21:45):
the Cherokee man ran out the backdoor of his friend's cabin, where
Dick's men were waiting to catch him. The five foot ten inch tall Jean
smirked at Dick, how'd you dowith Jane? How'd you get away from
us for so long? Simple?Ma, man know these woods better than
anyone. Never had to leave myown backyard. It was true. Jean
stayed within a thirty five square mileradius, hiding within plain sight for ten
(22:10):
months. During that time, anair of mystery and excitement surrounded Jean.
Nobody heard much about him after heescaped prison, but every once in a
while someone in town would say,I think I saw Jeanne at the market
today. He was buying milk rightnext to me. A similar showmanship would
surround Jean's trial. Preliminary hearings openedin June nineteen seventy eight. Defending Jean
(22:37):
initially was a Creek Indian lawyer namedLarry Oliver before Garvin Isaacs took over.
Betty Milner arrived along with Bow andSherry Farmer and Richard and George Anne Goose.
As Sherry stepped out of the car, she nervously clutched her husband's arm.
But look at these people. They'llnever find him guilty, and they
(22:59):
certainly don't want us wise invading theirterritory. Don't get yourself into a tizzi
yetun the Lord will help us fundjustice for Lourie. Bumber sticker to support
Jean. Oh, you're one ofthe families. Good luck friends. Sherry
clutched her husband even tighter as shelooked down at the bumper sticker in the
(23:22):
indigenous man's hands. Welcome to theheart of Jean Country. And it seemed
the people of prior Oklahoma had alreadymade up their minds about Jean's verdict.
He had been the star of LocustGrove highest football team in his day,
and several felt local law enforcement wasusing him as a scapegoat because of the
color of his skin. Some ofhis supporters went as far as bringing him
(23:45):
food and water for years after heescaped prison. The trial wouldn't officially get
underway until March fifth, after thelongest preliminary hearing in the state's history.
The excitement of everything didn't calm downeither. Every day, eager spectators would
line up two hours before the trialbegan in hopes of getting a seat to
(24:06):
the black Friday like madness was controlledby three state Highway patrolmen, so you
can imagine how hectic it was.There's that godless saying worshiper bow. Looks
like he hasn't missed any meals.Prison guards must be sneaking him extra pun
or something. They certainly tried toclean the fallen angel up. What angle
(24:29):
are they go and fall with thatthree piece suit? College Professor boh Sherry
may join you. Oh Betty,of course, thank you. I don't
know how much more of this Ican take. A man chased me in
here, screaming how Jean didn't killmy Denise. It's terrible bow and I
don't eat in town anymore because everyplace we go has jars on the table
(24:52):
asking for donations for his defense.Will you be quiet? After ten days
and one hundred and ten individuals,the jury of six men and six women
was selected. District Attorney Buddy Fallisand Chief Prosecutor Ron Schaffer led the prosecution.
Buddy had chiseled his name into thelawyer wall of fame by representing big
(25:14):
name criminals in Tulsa, Oklahoma,and he had hoped this case would be
another slice of cake. As heshuffled papers from his briefcase, he shook
his head. What's wrong, Buddy. I hate to admit it, but
I wouldn't call any of our evidencea smoking gun. We don't have any
fingerprints, just some hair off aband aid and random paraphernalia from a few
campers we found in the trunk inhis cabin. They'll rip us to shreds.
(25:37):
There's a lot of circumstantial evidence,though, how can he explain the
photos he developed in prison, beingin the caves or matching footprints at the
crime scene. And the hair isfound on the girls are very similar to
his. Like I said, nota smoking gun. I want to be
optimistic. The rape kid said theDNA was quite similar to Jeans. Both
men's hearts would sing as defense attorneyGarvin Isaacs took the floor. You all
(26:03):
might remember the sperm and hair samplesubmitted yesterday. My expert says the hair
cannot be used to identify someone withcertainty, and the sperm sample was not
handled properly. But he shot Rounan exhausted look. As Garvin continued furthermore,
I believe evidence was planted to framemy client. I have a jailer
(26:27):
here who will testify he saw thewedding photos Jeane developed in the sheriff's desk,
as well as camper items in hisoffice they later claimed were found in
Jean's cabin. And who do youpropose did it, Bill Stevens. Witnesses
have testified Jean was in Tulsa duringthe murders, but we can't account for
(26:49):
mister Stevens. I'd ask him today, but he's currently incarcerated on rape charges,
which sounds similar to what we're allhere for today. That seems hard
to believe. Believe what you want. It really doesn't matter what happened,
since Jeanne will be serving over threehundred years for past crimes. Anyway,
(27:15):
strike that from the record at once. Yes, the defense accidentally let it
slide that whether the jury found jeanguilty of this crime or not, the
state had him in their hands againand he'd be going back to finish his
previous sentence for the rape and murderof the two pregnant women. On March
twenty ninth, the jury heard closingarguments from both sides and deliberated for six
(27:37):
hours before going home for the evening. The next morning, Friday, March
thirtieth, they deliberated for another halfhour before bringing their verdict to the judge.
We the jury find Jeane leroy Hartnot guilty. Betty, the farmers
and the Gooses felt a hard punchto their guts that was made worse when
(28:02):
it was announced authorities wouldn't be searchingfor any other suspects, as pretty much
all their eggs had been placed inJean's basket. It seemed the murders at
Camp Scott would stay unsolved. Jeannewas sent back to prison, with many
still fully believing that he didn't killthe girl scouts. He spent much of
(28:23):
his time exercising to try and stayin shape. Hart another reporter is here
to speak with you. You knowthe rules, man, Tell him no,
the record has been set straight.As far as I'm concerned. The
jury voted right when they voted notguilty, and my family and supporters knew
the entire process was a sham.It was June fifth, nineteen seventy nine,
(28:47):
roughly two months after being found notguilty, and jean was too busy
lifting weights to be bothered with reporters. That was how he had been throughout
most of the trial, keep alow profile. Shortly after this denial,
Gene died from a heart attack.Some speculated there was foul play a foot,
but even his lawyer recognized the Heartfamily had a history of heart problems.
(29:15):
If Gene was found innocent, thenwho could possibly be responsible? Well,
As long time listeners are well aware, DNA evidence wasn't the most reliable
back in the seventies, so astechnology advances, evidence needs to get a
second look. In nineteen eighty nine, a series of tests were conducted on
crime scene DNA. What's the verdict? Doesn't match gene? Well, three
(29:38):
of them match samples from gene,but the other two don't. I'll say
this sample matches only one and seventyseven hundred Indigenous Americans. So take that
how you want. We have tosay in conclusive results. In two thousand
and eight, another test was conductedusing siemenstains from a pillowcase and swab's taken
(30:00):
off the victims. This time,I'll be damned. We have a partial
female match. Could it have beenfrom one of the girls or someone else
entirely? Since not everyone involved withthe crime scene was able to provide DNA
samples, we unfortunately might not everknow, and the case has grown murkier.
(30:22):
Not all hope has been lost,though, As Sherry Farmer said to
me, this would be the finalpiece to the puzzle. I would know
this is what happened to my daughterin her final hours, but that would
still only be a test result.Wouldn't bring back my daughter. Since the
trial, Betty had another daughter namedCristel. Cristel is now grown up and
(30:45):
has a daughter of her own,who she named after the sister she never
had the chance to meet. Denny'sMichelle Hoffman may not have gotten the chance
to be camp director as Camp Scottclosed after the murders, but today she
recognizes that she suffered from PTSD.At the time, it was frowned upon
to talk about mental health issues,but today she has a therapist who encourages
(31:07):
her to approach others involved with themurders and talk with them for a documentary.
Finally, Richard Goose, father ofthe slain girl Scout, Michelle Goose,
spearheaded the passage of the Oklahoma Victim'sBill of Rights, which essentially gives
a victim and their family the rightto know where a defendant is at all
times or if they've escaped prison.Having felt left out in the cold during
(31:30):
the trial, Richard and his wifewanted to make a change so other families
wouldn't have to go through what theydid. They wanted something good to come
from the death of their daughter.Cookie Time was written and narrated by me
(31:51):
Skyler fasten Out and executive produced byDaniel Jones. Voice talent was provided by
Sophia Sasone Tamra Perry, harrield Old, Taylor Shirty, Marissapa Stone, Rainy
Blake, Matt McNelly, Daniel Jones, Vince Perez, Jordan Catcher, Grant
naca Oka, Jeanette Zosh, andJeremy Staple. Our theme music was performed
(32:13):
by Tracy Zals. I am veryhappy you joined us for another episode of
the Original Deadtime Stories. If youfeel like you are the ultimate fan of
our podcast, Jordan our Patreon toenjoy benefits like early access to new episodes,
add free episodes, and a director'scut with me where you can learn
more about the crime or my writingprocess. Want to know why a priest
(32:37):
was questioned during the Camp Scott investigation, We'll join our patreon to find out.
You can also follow our Instagram,Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube to
meet the cast and see what CampScott and the Girl Scouts looked like.
The links to all of those arein the episode description. As a reminder,
the Original Deadtime Stories is now aweekly podcast, so we will be
(32:58):
back in just one week with ourfinal Halloween special for the year. We'll
be getting pretty spooky in this one. Until then, stay safe out there.
I don't want you to become thenext chapter's topic on the original Deadtime stories,
Okay, buy a show of hands. How many of you were a girl
or boy Scout. It's funny becauseI can't see you, but if you
did raise your hand, thank youfor taking part in my survey. I
can tell you I did not raisemy hand because I was not in the
Boy Scouts of America. I rememberin first grade getting a pamphlet about it.
(00:27):
Though my school used to send homeall kinds of flyers with students,
and while I was usually good aboutmaking sure my parents saw every single one,
I'm sure most kids littered them beforegetting home. I was sitting at
our kitchen table in the fall oneevening, and probably a week or two
before, we had been given theall important notice that the Boy Scouts were
(00:49):
coming to our school to recruit freshyoung men to join them, and it
seemed kind of cool, so I'dfigured I'd go to this meeting with my
dad. In my mind, wewere going to be building camp fires Wittenly
the way at Wood and doing other, you know, stereotypical boy things at
this meeting, and that seemed prettyfucking rad to me. As I sat
at the table, slurping my mom'sspaghetti dinner, it suddenly hit me that
(01:11):
I have to go back to schoolto do this meeting, and well,
that wasn't going to fly with me. I pushed my dinner away, went
into the family room where my parentswere watching World News Tonight with Peter Jennings,
and announced that I was renouncing mymembership with the Boy Scouts before it
even began. This is probably forthe better too, seeing us well their
(01:32):
belief on the gaze like me,was quote that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with
the obligations and the Scout Oath andScout law to be morally straight and clean
and thought word and deed. Butenough about the boys, Let's talk about
the girls. In all honesty,I care more about the Girl Scouts because
(01:53):
der they have cookies. Sure,Boy Scouts have popcorn. But I didn't
even know that existed until it poppedup in a sketch I was in my
junior year of high school. Ilook back now and wonder if maybe I
did miss out on something wonderful bynot going to that first meeting. And
then I read about Camp Scott Welcometo Deadtime stories. Come on, girls,
(02:47):
hustle ups and brad throat bag Let'sget on these buses. It was
a sunny Sunday June twelfth, nineteenseventy seven, in Locust Grove, Oklahoma,
and roughly one hundred and forty younggirls ran around a parking lot.
Since nineteen twenty eight, the GirlScouts ran an annual two week getaway at
Camp Scott, and more often thannot, the girls fell in love with
(03:09):
camping and returned year after year.Fifteen year old Michelle Hoffman recently aged out
of the camp, but was excitedto aid the camp director this year.
It all went well, she'd starttraining to be a counselor, and then
one day, the camp director asshe marked a few items off her checklist,
one little girl in particular caught hereye for two reasons. For starters,
(03:32):
this young lady was one of onlya handful of African American girls going
to Camp Scott that summer, andfor another, she was crying to her
mother, Oh baby, you're okay. I don't want to go, Mama,
I want to stay with you now, Baby girl, you've been begging
me to go on this trip formonths. My team scary now, but
(03:52):
you'll make lots of friends, andbefore you know it, you'll be telling
me how much you can't wait togo back. Hey, there the long
phase. Denise is a little homesickalready. Michelle looked down her list.
Ah, Denise Milner, and youmust be her mother, Betty. I'm
Michelle, and you'll be in mysection at Camp. I remember when I
(04:14):
first came to Camp Scott. You'reso scared of the woods at first,
But once you unfurl that sleeping backand meet your tentmates, you'll be so
excited. Here we can sit togetheron the bus, so it's less scary.
Ten year old Denise timidly walked awayas her mother gently tugged on Michelle's
elbow. Will you promise me you'llhelp call home if she doesn't feel better?
Well, miss Milner, that's notprotocol. We find it makes their
(04:36):
homesickness even worse. Promise me you'llmake an exception for Denise. Michelle thought
it over before giving Betty a gentlesmile and boarding the bus herself. Michelle
took a seat next to Denise,who solemnly waved goodbye to her mother,
like a soldier going off to war. We usually sing camp songs to pass
(04:57):
the time. You know any camsongs? Oh, you will soon come
on just repeat after me. Michellesmiled down warmly at Denise, who,
with the parking lot behind her,was beginning to feel a little more excited.
She pulled back her hair with apink clip and started to sing with
Michelle. Just a short hour anda half later, the bus pulled onto
(05:21):
the narrow Cookie trails. An excitedhush fell over the girls as the trees
began to shroud their view. Remembergirls, hold your breath as we passed
this street, or the ghosts willget you boom. Don't worry, Denise,
there aren't any real ghosts. Soonthe bus pulled in and the girls
(05:46):
were unloading their belongings. Michelle walkedwith Denise in their section of tents and
the Kiowa unit. Each unit wasnamed after an indigenous tribe cultural appropriation in
its prime, which makes me cringeto think about. Here we are tent
number eight. This is by farthe best one. I stayed here nearly
(06:08):
every year. Oh and look doyou see that building? Yes, ma'am,
that's the latrine. Your tent isthe closest one to it, so
you'll have to walk the least amountof distance if you need to releave yourself
at night. An eight year oldgirl with two long, blondish pigtails,
poked her head out of the tentflap. Michelle's just here, a brunette
with glasses and gapped front teeth,pushed by the pigtailed girl. Hi,
(06:30):
yeah, you're Denise, right,guys, this is gonna be a lot
of fun. I'm Michelle, andthis is Lorie. Hi. Denise walked
into the tent and counselor Michelle Hsmiled and walked off. Bring anything cool,
Denise, Just a sleeping bag andsome clothes. You got playing cards.
(06:53):
I brought playing cards and hair brushesand stuff. I wanted to bring
my plants with me, but mothersaid no, I wouldn't need em.
Golly, I hope she's watering myafrikin violets like I asked her. Oh.
I loved those, They're so pretty. The three girls had never met
(07:13):
until now, and although they wereinitially the quietest group, once the campfire
songs had been sung and the camperswere settling into bed, they were just
as noisy as the others. MichelleH pulled back the flat. Your girls
settling into bed and staying dry,Yes, ma'am, j Michelle, you
think it don't rain every night we'rehere. That thunderstorm was the wildest.
(07:36):
Hopefully not, but even if itdoes, we have plenty of activities to
keep you busy. Now go tosleep or you'll miss the excitement. Oh
do we have to? Michelle Hchecked behind her to ensure the coast was
clear, and then leaned in witha grin. They always say yes,
but sometimes we turn a deaf earif you stay up telling ghosts. Are
(08:01):
all right, girls, good night. Michelle H continued her rounds until one
by one the campers fell asleep.Around one thirty, Michelle H stirred in
her tent. Hey did any ofyou hear that? Probably a rabbit or
(08:24):
something. Michelle H wasn't satisfied withthat answer, grabbed her flashlight and headed
out into the pitch darkness. Theysay Camp Scott was shrouded and complete black
at night. You could never tellthe difference between having your eyes open or
closed. During the day, thearea was friendly enough, with girls running
(08:48):
around giggling, but at night everythingfelt sinister. Michelle carefully shined her flashlight
beam across the area harshly, hopingto find the source of this strange moaning
and harshly, hoping that she wouldn'tprobably a prank. Not finding anything,
Michelle returned to her tent and fellback asleep. For the next hour,
(09:16):
everything went back to normal, andthen in tent number seven, one spot
over from Denise Laurie and Michelle G'stent, another girl scout groaned as a
flashlight beam fell through the tent flapand into her eyes. Turn the light
off A quiet Amy, it's justthe counselor's scene. If you're asleep.
Oh yeah. The girl scouts weresoon asleep again, but this would only
(09:41):
last thirty minutes or so. Aroundthree, Amy, did you hear that?
Yeah? She should we get Michelleh I don't want to go out
there. Me neither. Well maybeit's a prank. Yeah, that's it.
A can I sleep with you?I's going to come asleep with you.
(10:05):
The terrified girls zipped the sleeping bagover their heads and tried not to
cry. Around six, Counselor Carlawill Height stretched and made her way to
the showers. She passed tent numberone, two, three, and so
on until she arrived at Tent numbereight. She rubbed her sleepy eyes and
(10:28):
swatted a fly from her arm girls, What are you doing out? Carla's
question was cut short. About onehundred yards from Tent number eight were three
colorful lumps. One was red withflowers, another was plaid, and the
third was Oh Lord, Denise.Carla was in shock. She took a
(10:50):
few more weak steps towards the lumpsand immediately knew that something terrible had happened
in the night. Forgetting all abouther shower, Carlos branted to the camp
director and camp nurse. As theywaited for police. Carla and Michelle h
stared anywhere but at the bloody sleepingbags. We can't let these girls know
(11:15):
anything is wrong. We have tokeep them occupied, sing songs and things.
Michelle h nodded as she waited forthe inevitable. The thought of putting
on a bright face for these innocentgirls terrified her, but she knew she
had to do it. This isterrible. Someone came in and killed three
(11:35):
of our kids. Sheriff Pete Weaverssoon arrived and felt his stomach turn as
the voices of singing girl scouts carriedover from some distance away. God,
they have no idea what happened.No, sir, we're waiting for the
buses to pick them off. Thankyou, miss you better go watch them.
This isn't a place for a woman. I found the girls, sir.
(11:56):
This way Carla and the camp directorled the sheriff's team to the bodies.
A coroner shook his head as heexamined the trauma. These two,
he pointed to, Laurie and Michellege each have blunt forced trauma to the
head. And the African American girl, Denise, as we know her,
seems to have been strangled with achord of some kind. And God,
(12:20):
the sickle raped the three of them. Can't be look at this scuff marks
in the dirt. Little girl putup a fight before he got her and
the others. They were already deadby the time he dropped them off.
Here which tent were the girls ineight? I didn't want to look inside.
Oh Jesus Christ. The tent wasmassacred with blood soaking everything. He
(12:46):
probably snuck in the back and beattheir skulls in. I think there's a
reason he chose these three. Hprobably didn't know them. This tents the
furthest from the others, so itwas easiest for the sick ba Askeda to
get in and out you okay,young lady, you've been awful quiet.
Oh yes, sir, it's justwell. I can't help but feel that
(13:13):
this is my faults. I shouldhave heard them last night. I should
have warned someone about what happened.Don't blame yourself, babe. You tried
to tell me last night, notlast night, our training weekend. I
forgot about that. You see,we did a special kiddet training session a
(13:35):
few weeks before camp started. Wehad been out all morning, and I
say, came back to my tent. Something felt wrong. Oh come on,
Carla, did you raid my tentthis morning? Because I'm new?
No, but that's a good idea. We'll have to remember that for next
Oh my goodness. There are boxesknocked over everywhere. Yeah, and the
(13:58):
worst part is someone eat my donuts. I was saving those. Hey,
what's that Is that a note?I don't know it fell out of the
box. There are like four orfive pages here, and oh pros.
The first two or three just saykill over and over again. Oh jeepers,
(14:20):
greepers, what what what's to say? We're on a mission to kill
three girls. You'd better watch outthis summer. I'm gonna sneak in the
middle of the night and snatch themup. Then I'll beat them up real
good. But oh, dream onwhat, don't worry about the pain they're
(14:43):
in. When the alien ship abductsthem, they'll be cured. This is
so bog but we got to tellthe director, you know. So like
when we took the note to thedirector, she was really serious about it,
(15:03):
you know. But a few girlsconfessed to writing the note, so
we totally forgot about it. Butwe don't know if they actually wrote it
or just said they did. Sothe director stopped dipping into everyone's cool aid.
Thank you, ladies. Well,it sounds like the buses are here.
Maybe you should go help your campersload up, preferably avoiding this area,
Yes, sir, any ideas whoit might be? One guy comes
(15:28):
right into my mind and he's beenescaping my clutches for four years now.
Who's that? Jean le Roy Hart? Mama, Mama, whoa slow down,
(16:00):
baby girl, wipe your feet beforeyou trump inside my house? Sorry,
mama, but I got the coolestnews. My troop's going to Camp
Scott this summer, are they now? These things cost money? You know?
I know, and I broke itdown right here. See, if
I sell enough cookies this year,I'll have more than enough money to go.
Denise, Baby, you've always beenherd to go places. How's a
(16:25):
girl like you going to balance cookiesales with gymnastics, tap classes and church
choir. That's a lot for anybody, let alone a fifth grader. Help
do it somehow, Mamma. Denise'smother, Betty, took a seat at
the kitchen table, shaking her headand chuckling as she wrote a check to
the electric company. I'm impressed,baby, you raised more than enough money.
(16:49):
I don't think I want to goanymore. Some friends that they ain't
going anymore, so I don't thinkI want to go either. Oh no,
ma'am, you've worked too hard tothrow this opportunity away. Mmmmm,
but Mama, you've never let mesteal. No butts about it. March
to your bedroom and pack your bag. Denise trudged away, then turned back
(17:10):
to her mother and said, missusMilner, please come to the principal's office.
What miss Milner to the principal's officeplace? Betty shook her head and
found herself staring up at a blackboardfrom the back of a classroom. The
summer school students all stared back ather. Missus Milner, did you hear
that Principal Jones wants you? Butdon't worry, I can handle these students.
(17:32):
Betty nodded and quietly excused herself.By the summer of nineteen seventy seven,
Betty was divorced from her husband,Walter and worked as a teacher's aide
so she could properly raise her twodaughters. Please take a seat, miss
Milner's a It's about Denise. Lord, I knew she'd get homesick. I
(17:52):
never should have let her go tothat camp. Is it all right if
I go to pick her up?Principal Jones exchanged looks with his assistant pile
and his eyebrows knit together. Actually, Miss Milner, Denise doesn't need to
be picked up. Denise's dead,she and two other girls. Betty's heart
dropped into her stomach as she registeredthe horrible news. It seems that she
(18:17):
was baiting and and riped. OhLord, no, not my baby girl.
Are you sure it was a murder. She didn't fall into the lake
or something. I could accept that, but not a murder. What about
my other daughter? Kathy, Willthey go after her next? Now,
(18:37):
Miss Milner takes some deep breaths anddrink this water. The police will take
you through everything, but please gohome, rest and lock the doors.
There might be a sex killer.I'm release. While Betty and the other
parents were receiving news of the murdersand the girl Scouts were loading the buses
blissfully unaware that three of their ownwere missing, Sheriff Weaver and his team,
(19:02):
along with five hundred volunteers, combedthe surrounding area for the murderer,
who they were certain was Gene LeroyHart. What makes you so sure it's
mister Hart, Sheriff. We've beenhunting this guy down for years, and
I think he's been hiding right underour noses. Sixth son of a bitch
abducted two gals back in sixty sixand raped one of them. He was
in jail right, yes, Sir, supposed to serve three concurrent ten years
(19:27):
sentences, but they've rolled him aftertwenty eight months. Then I got him
three hundred and five years for fourcounts of first degree burglary in sixty nine.
He escaped about four years ago.Sheriff Weaver wouldn't find Jeane during this
initial search, but they did comeacross a network of caves overlooking the camp.
(19:48):
I'll be look at this note scrawledon the wall. The killer was
here. Bye bye fools. Wealso have some groceries, bandages, cigarettes,
web, photographs, and a bunchof other stuff. Does it mean
anything? Sure? Does Jean developedphotographs in jail. We can see if
these match the negatives he was given. I'll send the bandages and cigarettes to
(20:11):
the lab and see if we canget a match to him from the hairs
and saliva left on him. Sure. If Weaver wouldn't be alone in his
efforts to track Gene, Banks setup reward funds for anyone who could offer
information leading to his capture, andpeople from as far away as Florida donated
money. By August, Tulsa Worldnewspaper published a letter to Gene asking him
(20:33):
to surrender, with Governor David Bouren'sassurance that he'd receive a fair trial.
Nothing came of it, and aftermonths and months of searching, the media
frenzy on the case fizzled out.Chief Inspector Wilkerson here fascinating, Thank you
(20:56):
sir, We'll take a look.When it seemed like the Girl Scout murders
were forgotten, a tip came throughthe wire at the Oklahoma State Bureau of
Investigation or OSBI. It was Thursday, April sixth, nineteen seventy eight,
ten months since the murders. ChiefDick Wilkerson led his team to a cabin
(21:21):
in the woods. No surprise therewhere, according to the tip, they'd
find Jean. The cabin belonged tohis friend Sam Pigeon, a medicine man.
Go ahead and take him. Don'tkill him unless you have to,
but he can't get away. Ifhe's in there, he'll probably try to
run out the back, so makesure you're ready. Back there, Someone
handed Dick a megaphone. Jane,you're surrounded. Come out. As expected,
(21:45):
the Cherokee man ran out the backdoor of his friend's cabin, where
Dick's men were waiting to catch him. The five foot ten inch tall Jean
smirked at Dick, how'd you dowith Jane? How'd you get away from
us for so long? Simple?Ma, man know these woods better than
anyone. Never had to leave myown backyard. It was true. Jean
stayed within a thirty five square mileradius, hiding within plain sight for ten
(22:10):
months. During that time, anair of mystery and excitement surrounded Jean.
Nobody heard much about him after heescaped prison, but every once in a
while someone in town would say,I think I saw Jeanne at the market
today. He was buying milk rightnext to me. A similar showmanship would
surround Jean's trial. Preliminary hearings openedin June nineteen seventy eight. Defending Jean
(22:37):
initially was a Creek Indian lawyer namedLarry Oliver before Garvin Isaacs took over.
Betty Milner arrived along with Bow andSherry Farmer and Richard and George Anne Goose.
As Sherry stepped out of the car, she nervously clutched her husband's arm.
But look at these people. They'llnever find him guilty, and they
(22:59):
certainly don't want us wise invading theirterritory. Don't get yourself into a tizzi
yetun the Lord will help us fundjustice for Lourie. Bumber sticker to support
Jean. Oh, you're one ofthe families. Good luck friends. Sherry
clutched her husband even tighter as shelooked down at the bumper sticker in the
(23:22):
indigenous man's hands. Welcome to theheart of Jean Country. And it seemed
the people of prior Oklahoma had alreadymade up their minds about Jean's verdict.
He had been the star of LocustGrove highest football team in his day,
and several felt local law enforcement wasusing him as a scapegoat because of the
color of his skin. Some ofhis supporters went as far as bringing him
(23:45):
food and water for years after heescaped prison. The trial wouldn't officially get
underway until March fifth, after thelongest preliminary hearing in the state's history.
The excitement of everything didn't calm downeither. Every day, eager spectators would
line up two hours before the trialbegan in hopes of getting a seat to
(24:06):
the black Friday like madness was controlledby three state Highway patrolmen, so you
can imagine how hectic it was.There's that godless saying worshiper bow. Looks
like he hasn't missed any meals.Prison guards must be sneaking him extra pun
or something. They certainly tried toclean the fallen angel up. What angle
(24:29):
are they go and fall with thatthree piece suit? College Professor boh Sherry
may join you. Oh Betty,of course, thank you. I don't
know how much more of this Ican take. A man chased me in
here, screaming how Jean didn't killmy Denise. It's terrible bow and I
don't eat in town anymore because everyplace we go has jars on the table
(24:52):
asking for donations for his defense.Will you be quiet? After ten days
and one hundred and ten individuals,the jury of six men and six women
was selected. District Attorney Buddy Fallisand Chief Prosecutor Ron Schaffer led the prosecution.
Buddy had chiseled his name into thelawyer wall of fame by representing big
(25:14):
name criminals in Tulsa, Oklahoma,and he had hoped this case would be
another slice of cake. As heshuffled papers from his briefcase, he shook
his head. What's wrong, Buddy. I hate to admit it, but
I wouldn't call any of our evidencea smoking gun. We don't have any
fingerprints, just some hair off aband aid and random paraphernalia from a few
campers we found in the trunk inhis cabin. They'll rip us to shreds.
(25:37):
There's a lot of circumstantial evidence,though, how can he explain the
photos he developed in prison, beingin the caves or matching footprints at the
crime scene. And the hair isfound on the girls are very similar to
his. Like I said, nota smoking gun. I want to be
optimistic. The rape kid said theDNA was quite similar to Jeans. Both
men's hearts would sing as defense attorneyGarvin Isaacs took the floor. You all
(26:03):
might remember the sperm and hair samplesubmitted yesterday. My expert says the hair
cannot be used to identify someone withcertainty, and the sperm sample was not
handled properly. But he shot Rounan exhausted look. As Garvin continued furthermore,
I believe evidence was planted to framemy client. I have a jailer
(26:27):
here who will testify he saw thewedding photos Jeane developed in the sheriff's desk,
as well as camper items in hisoffice they later claimed were found in
Jean's cabin. And who do youpropose did it, Bill Stevens. Witnesses
have testified Jean was in Tulsa duringthe murders, but we can't account for
(26:49):
mister Stevens. I'd ask him today, but he's currently incarcerated on rape charges,
which sounds similar to what we're allhere for today. That seems hard
to believe. Believe what you want. It really doesn't matter what happened,
since Jeanne will be serving over threehundred years for past crimes. Anyway,
(27:15):
strike that from the record at once. Yes, the defense accidentally let it
slide that whether the jury found jeanguilty of this crime or not, the
state had him in their hands againand he'd be going back to finish his
previous sentence for the rape and murderof the two pregnant women. On March
twenty ninth, the jury heard closingarguments from both sides and deliberated for six
(27:37):
hours before going home for the evening. The next morning, Friday, March
thirtieth, they deliberated for another halfhour before bringing their verdict to the judge.
We the jury find Jeane leroy Hartnot guilty. Betty, the farmers
and the Gooses felt a hard punchto their guts that was made worse when
(28:02):
it was announced authorities wouldn't be searchingfor any other suspects, as pretty much
all their eggs had been placed inJean's basket. It seemed the murders at
Camp Scott would stay unsolved. Jeannewas sent back to prison, with many
still fully believing that he didn't killthe girl scouts. He spent much of
(28:23):
his time exercising to try and stayin shape. Hart another reporter is here
to speak with you. You knowthe rules, man, Tell him no,
the record has been set straight.As far as I'm concerned. The
jury voted right when they voted notguilty, and my family and supporters knew
the entire process was a sham.It was June fifth, nineteen seventy nine,
(28:47):
roughly two months after being found notguilty, and jean was too busy
lifting weights to be bothered with reporters. That was how he had been throughout
most of the trial, keep alow profile. Shortly after this denial,
Gene died from a heart attack.Some speculated there was foul play a foot,
but even his lawyer recognized the Heartfamily had a history of heart problems.
(29:15):
If Gene was found innocent, thenwho could possibly be responsible? Well,
As long time listeners are well aware, DNA evidence wasn't the most reliable
back in the seventies, so astechnology advances, evidence needs to get a
second look. In nineteen eighty nine, a series of tests were conducted on
crime scene DNA. What's the verdict? Doesn't match gene? Well, three
(29:38):
of them match samples from gene,but the other two don't. I'll say
this sample matches only one and seventyseven hundred Indigenous Americans. So take that
how you want. We have tosay in conclusive results. In two thousand
and eight, another test was conductedusing siemenstains from a pillowcase and swab's taken
(30:00):
off the victims. This time,I'll be damned. We have a partial
female match. Could it have beenfrom one of the girls or someone else
entirely? Since not everyone involved withthe crime scene was able to provide DNA
samples, we unfortunately might not everknow, and the case has grown murkier.
(30:22):
Not all hope has been lost,though, As Sherry Farmer said to
me, this would be the finalpiece to the puzzle. I would know
this is what happened to my daughterin her final hours, but that would
still only be a test result.Wouldn't bring back my daughter. Since the
trial, Betty had another daughter namedCristel. Cristel is now grown up and
(30:45):
has a daughter of her own,who she named after the sister she never
had the chance to meet. Denny'sMichelle Hoffman may not have gotten the chance
to be camp director as Camp Scottclosed after the murders, but today she
recognizes that she suffered from PTSD.At the time, it was frowned upon
to talk about mental health issues,but today she has a therapist who encourages
(31:07):
her to approach others involved with themurders and talk with them for a documentary.
Finally, Richard Goose, father ofthe slain girl Scout, Michelle Goose,
spearheaded the passage of the Oklahoma Victim'sBill of Rights, which essentially gives
a victim and their family the rightto know where a defendant is at all
times or if they've escaped prison.Having felt left out in the cold during
(31:30):
the trial, Richard and his wifewanted to make a change so other families
wouldn't have to go through what theydid. They wanted something good to come
from the death of their daughter.Cookie Time was written and narrated by me
(31:51):
Skyler fasten Out and executive produced byDaniel Jones. Voice talent was provided by
Sophia Sasone Tamra Perry, harrield Old, Taylor Shirty, Marissapa Stone, Rainy
Blake, Matt McNelly, Daniel Jones, Vince Perez, Jordan Catcher, Grant
naca Oka, Jeanette Zosh, andJeremy Staple. Our theme music was performed
(32:13):
by Tracy Zals. I am veryhappy you joined us for another episode of
the Original Deadtime Stories. If youfeel like you are the ultimate fan of
our podcast, Jordan our Patreon toenjoy benefits like early access to new episodes,
add free episodes, and a director'scut with me where you can learn
more about the crime or my writingprocess. Want to know why a priest
(32:37):
was questioned during the Camp Scott investigation, We'll join our patreon to find out.
You can also follow our Instagram,Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube to
meet the cast and see what CampScott and the Girl Scouts looked like.
The links to all of those arein the episode description. As a reminder,
the Original Deadtime Stories is now aweekly podcast, so we will be
(32:58):
back in just one week with ourfinal Halloween special for the year. We'll
be getting pretty spooky in this one. Until then, stay safe out there.
I don't want you to become thenext chapter's topic on the original Deadtime stories,
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.