July 19, 2023 • 49 mins
Welcome back to a brand new episode! Join us on a tour of the Old City Jail in Charleston, South Carolina with our lovely guide, Katie. Katie's going to introduce us to John and Lavinia Fisher and their murder house complete with a cellar of spikes for their rich victims...and then I'll tell y'all the real story. Originally broadcast April 6, 2022.
Written and narrated by Schuyler Fastenau-Jones and executive produced by Daniel Fastenau-Jones. Additional voices by Jeremy Staple, Tamara Perry, Janette Zosche, Jordan Katcher, Maurice Whitfield, Juno Nifosi, and Daniel Fastenau-Jones. Cover artwork by Catherine Fastenau. Theme music by Tracy Zales. Editing and sound design by Brian Campbell.
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Written and narrated by Schuyler Fastenau-Jones and executive produced by Daniel Fastenau-Jones. Additional voices by Jeremy Staple, Tamara Perry, Janette Zosche, Jordan Katcher, Maurice Whitfield, Juno Nifosi, and Daniel Fastenau-Jones. Cover artwork by Catherine Fastenau. Theme music by Tracy Zales. Editing and sound design by Brian Campbell.
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Check out our other shows:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Do you know what's awful when somethingtotally innocent gets twisted in the mind of
someone else and becomes a completely fabricatedstory. Has this ever happened to you?
Who are you talking to? Monk? Our guests? You know,
these kind people right here who decidedto join us in Charleston. Oh right,
(00:29):
Sorry, you guys have been realquiet back there. Ignore him,
He's just being silly. Anyway.I was just thinking about this time that
I was in fifth grade. I'venever really been a fan of group projects,
but not a team player. Youshock it, do you mind?
I'm telling our friends a story.Husbands, I put the ring on his
(00:51):
finger and he became a totally differentperson. So fifth grade, we were
doing a group project, and well, I naturally assumed that my team would
totally screw up their portions and thatwe'd all fail. I was a stressed
child who constantly planned things out becauseI knew that people would let me down.
Well, I guess my teammates didn'treally like that I was handling all
(01:14):
the work nerds and complained to myteacher that I was doing everything and not
letting them help nerds. For thefirst time in my young life, I
was asked to go into the hallwaywith my teacher, and well, you
know that's never a good sign.So once in the hall she proceeded to
tell you you need to be funto the rest of the group and let
everyone take part. Wow. HaveI told you this story before? Once
(01:40):
or twice? Go on, monkeyman. Being the good boy that I
was. When my group comes backout into the hallway to continue working,
I took it upon myself to sitthem down and compliment each of them for
some contribution they made to the project, even if I had to fabricate a
bit and pretend that their work wasjust as good as mine. Lauren,
You're our work is great, Courtney. I love your wording of the sentence
(02:02):
here, Isaac. You really Butbefore I could finish, my teacher comes
back outside and what were we justtalking about? And you're still taking control?
No, missus O. I wastelling them that they did well and
don't lie. No, missus Z. He really was. You don't have
(02:23):
to come up for him. Wow, that was a great impression of my
teacher and friend. Thank you.Now, let's wrap it up. Back
then, I believed that adults werealways right and was so confused as to
how she couldn't see that I wastrying to do what she had told me
to do moments before. I dowant to note here that missus O was
(02:44):
genuinely an incredible teacher who, bythe way, taught all three of the
fast Now siblings over the course ofnearly a decade. Though this particular incident
was not my favorite moment from thatyear, the improv that we did to
learn American history, resume right toprep us for future careers, and readings
of books like The City November arejust some of the memories that I will
(03:05):
cherish. So missus Oh, ifyou're listening, thank you for being such
a hard working teacher. And mypersonalized clipboard, which you made for every
student that you ever taught, didtravel with me to LA when I moved
out here. Welcome to the OriginalDeadtime Stories, a podcast where I Skyler
(03:25):
fast Now go beyond to the crimeto investigate human psychology and history, so
maybe we don't make the same mistakesof our ancestors. Are you doing a
live episode of our podcast right hereon the street. If you're a fan
of the show and you would liketo support us even more, head on
over to a patreon dot com,slash og deadtime. I guess we'll start
(04:01):
the chapter once we get to theOld Charleston Jail. Do you have the
directions on your phone? I havethem pulled up, but we have to
listen to an ad before it'll start. An add on Google Maps. And
(04:23):
now on with our show. We'rein the courtyard of the Old City Jail
in Charleston and our tour group isjust up ahead. You're starting to creep
me out. Hey, y'all,are you here for the Ghost of the
Jail Tour? Yes? I havethe tickets all right here on my phone.
Oh don't worry, guys, Ibought tickets for all of us.
(04:44):
So thank you for joining us onour vacation. Oh Kenny, and you're
all chipped in umkakatie and I'll beyour dad this evening. Thank we're all
here, So let's get started abit. I hope this is yeah.
I'm so excited. I am soglad you're excited. Will allow me to
(05:06):
be the first to welcome you tothe Old City Jail. Now, this
structure here was built in eighteen otwo and actually stood at four stories.
Right there in the middle right therewas once a tower that added an additional
two stories. You'll notice it's missingto day, and that's because we had
(05:27):
a huge earthquake in eighteen eighty sixthat destroyed the tower and the fourth floor,
which is why we can only seeshe's talking so much. Who hares
while the earthquake? Why is thisearthquake so important? I heard that question
from the back there. Why isthis earthquake important? Why are we e
been talking about this, Katie?Why are we been talking about this today?
Well, some say it opened upa gateway for the spirits to enter
(05:49):
our world, because we saw anincreasing activity ever since. Shall we go
inside? Are you right? Guys? Right this way? So this prison
(06:13):
was closed in nineteen thirty nine,but a group purchased it in two thousand
and it's been undergoing constant preservation eversince. I don't think all the ghosts
have appreciated that, though, andthey have made their presence known to us.
His wife, Oh, I'm sorry, sir, Yes, sir,
Please don't touch the building. Yeah, oils will definitely damage it. Thank
you. So sometimes ghosts make themselvesknown to us on this tour. And
(06:35):
if you feel anything strange, pleaseplease tell me. So we can examine
that together. What kind of thingshave happened on your tours? Tons,
tons of different things. People haveseen an angry old jailer running towards them
before vanishing. There's been a slavein rags wandering the halls before. And
(06:55):
some lucky people have even seen Laviniain the wedding dress that she was in.
We're gonna head up these stairs overhere now to see the Salavinia state.
Oh wait a second, Katie,Katie, Hi, Sorry, I
didn't get a chance to tell myfriends here who Lavinia Fisher was. Can
(07:18):
you tell them as we walked totallyTo fully understand Lavinia and John Fisher,
you guys have to understand what Charlestonwas like in the eighteen hundreds. Our
population was actually predominantly slaves and freeblacks, but they essentially had no power.
Of course, right, the topfive percent of white people owned more
(07:40):
than a half the wealth, whichcaused a lot of tension. But Charleston
was a huge hump for trade withour ports and wagons coming into the city,
and it was not uncommon for piratesor highwaymen to attack these traders and
robbed them. Now, Jacky's gota lot of goods on him beating down
(08:18):
I'll kill him, I don't care, but take everything you can carry at
us house ahead, gentlemen, that'swhat John's been hiding out, hits that
(08:46):
Downfrow robbed from my names. Charlestonwas facing a huge depression, and they
didn't want their economy to crash,right, because if people heard they'd be
robbed in the city, they'd stoppedcoming into trade. So Lynch mobs often
took the law into their own handsand hunted down robbers at the ends along
the roads. Oh so they're likethe precursors to the guys who stormed the
(09:20):
capitol in January twenty twenty one.Yeah, that's moss while you're looking at
it. And those ends were calledfive mile House or six mile House because
that's how far they were from Charlestonexactly, and Lavinia and her husband John
operated out of six Mile House.Now I want all of you to imagine
you've been riding on horseback all dayand totally exhausted. You show up at
(09:45):
a little in six miles from thecity and knock on the door. You're
greeted by a gorgeou just woman,possibly of mixed race. Well, hello,
sir. This is Lavinia Fisher,a woman built by Satan. Are
(10:11):
you in need of lodging for thenight, yes, ma'am John. Do
we have a room, yes,darling, ah wonderful. Come on in,
sir and rest while we prepare theroom. Thank you, ma'am.
(10:33):
Here, sir, have some ofmy horrible tea. I'll ease your tired
bones. Thank you, ma'am.Ah, this is the best tea I've
had. It's an old recipe.Put you right at ease, I'll say
(10:56):
it does. So. Are youtraveling into Charleston, No, ma'am just
left. I spent the whole daysell them of first, and came from
up north with a wagon full ofthem and managed to sell almost everyone.
The room is ready. Come along, sir. You don't want to fall
(11:18):
asleep right here after a long dayat the market. It was Lavinia's job
to lure in mad with her beauty, chat them up to see if they
were rich, and if they metthe Fisher's criteria, they take the poor
(11:41):
guy to his room. You'll findthe bed quite comfortable, sir. Good
night. That tea, by theway, was poisoned with oleander, so
(12:05):
the men would either fall asleep ordie. Once they were sure he was
asleep, John sneak in and hekilled them and take whatever money or goods
(12:31):
were on them. I'm not gruesomeenough for you, young man. No,
well, then how about this.Sometimes if they wanted to have a
little fun with their guest, they'dsend him up to bed after tea good
night, and once he was asleep, John or Lavinia would pull a special
(12:58):
lever. The bed would open upand the unsuspecting traveler would fall into a
joint pit in the cellar. Theguests would be welcome to the basement by
a nice sharp spy. Right,isn't that incredible? And their method work
(13:26):
too until a man named John Peopleshowed up. He was a fur trader,
and Lavinia, like always, askedhim a zillion questions about what he
did good night. But what Laviniadidn't know was John hated tea and dumped
it out when she wasn't looking.He wasn't poisoned and was fully aware of
(13:50):
how weird the questions were afraid ofbeing ribed. Mister People's fell asleep in
a chair beside the door. Goodnessgracious, Once mister People's witness the bed
opened up, he latched the windowand ran like the wind into town to
(14:11):
report the attempted robbery to Sheriff NathanielGreen Cleary. Sheriff Cleary burned down six
small house and arrested John Lavinia intheir gang robbers. When the fire was
out, they found twenty to thirtybodies in the cellar. I know that's
(14:37):
too many bodies. John and Laviniaseemed to be pretty successful with their robberies,
but couldn't avoid this jail Behind meis these sail The Fishers were locked
in. What's with a crappy brickwork? Oh? I am so glad you
mentioned that jonesie that was actually patchedup. While the Fishers were here,
(15:03):
John Lavinia and one of their gangmembers named Joseph Robert had dug through the
wall to make an escape. Yougot them blankets, Lavina, Yes,
sir, tied a real tight Goodgirl, Joseph, you go first,
then I'll follow. If they holdus, they'll hold you, Lavina,
Go Joseph. I don't know whenthat guard will come back. M wait
(15:35):
until I give you the signal.Okay. Their blanket line failed and John
fell about ten twenty feet. Hesurvived the fall, but didn't want to
(15:58):
leave without his wife. Sure,him and Joseph put their heads together to
figure out how to save Lavinia,but every idea seemed like it would end
with their capture. In the end, a suspicious grocer saw them sneaking around
his property and followed them to aboat they were hiding under. The sheriff
(16:18):
was called and they were sent rightback to prison after all. Now,
if y'all look out this window,you'll see the courtyard we got serving in.
That's where the gallows was. Thefishers were quickly found guilty of highway
robbery and sentenced to be hung downthere, And that's where we're going next.
(16:48):
These stairs here would have been thesame ones Lavinia used the day she
died. Just imagine beautiful Lavinia walkingdown and a milky out wendrows. Christ,
what are you doing in that?The judge said, he'll hang you.
First of all, I can't saywe're married anymore. If a poor
(17:11):
gentleman in the crowd sees me inthis, then maybe he'll pity me and
ask me to marry him. Thenthey can't hate me because he'll be a
marrying again. It'll never work.Foolish girl, shut up your flag investts
(17:33):
you fluting bitches and priston this street. Y'all had husbands who voted everywhere guilty,
but we are innocent. Knock itoff, Lavinia. Oh please,
but you'll give me for everything I'vedone? Please you, sir? Who
would you let a poornessvented it?Yeah? You're gry me how a staff
(18:00):
stipid lash? Damn you ride yardbassets. A lot of y'all come on,
act like a lady. Dear HeavenlyFather, please bless mister and missus
John Fisher today. Forgive them fortheir sins. See that they have accepted
(18:21):
our Lord, and save you,Jesus Christ, into their hearts, and
wish to serve you at your gatesin heaven. Yes, Lord, forgive
me for my sins. Shove itup your hearts. God, forgive her
father before she knows not what shesays. Lavinia, find it in your
(18:41):
heart to accept Jesus. Let mepray for you. I can tell him
you are snease. I will havenone of it. Save your words for
others that want them. But ifyou have a message you want to send
to help, give it to me. I'll carrot. She lived right off
(19:07):
the platform without waiting for the executioner. The platform fell from under John right
after. It seems Lavinian never madeit to Hell to tell Satan any messages,
(19:36):
though, because people see her walkingthrough the Unitarian Church's cemetery where she's
buried. Unfortunately, we don't havetime to go there on this tour,
but I always encourage my guests todrop by and see if Lavinia will meet
with them. Ladies and gents,this concludes our ghost tour of the Old
City Jail. Oh up, whoa, whoa No No, Katie, Katie
(20:03):
Hi Hi Skyler Fastone, hosting creatorof the original Deadtime Stories, the best
true crime podcast out there. Myhumble opinion, you've been lovely, fabulous,
really truly, but that's not howthe story of the Fisher family goes.
Excuse me, sorry, guys,let me clear things up here with
Katie. You guys go over tothe bar and I'll meet up with you
(20:26):
in the same time it takes tohave a commercial break. Welcome back to
our show. We never left.Jonesy and I are sitting in a bar
(20:48):
after ripping apart our tour guide,and you guys are here just in time
to hear me tell Lavinia's real storyover here. We saved you us,
Jool Jim Love, Can you pourour friends and drinks? Okay, so
Katie was partially right about the Fishers. They did operate six Mile House,
(21:10):
and Charleston was based in a financialcrisis with an uptick and highway robbery,
and from what I can tell,Lavinia and John didn't mind robbing traders and
the tea. No record of Laviniagiving out only undertea trapdoor. Oh god,
I wish, but no. Also, something about a bed that opens
up into a basement with the flickof a switch in the eighteen hundreds just
(21:33):
seems highly unlikely to me. Nowlet's go back to February sixteen, eighteen
nineteen. Whoa, whoa clone,town fellow? You're you're driving a one
(21:59):
one? Where's the sheriff? Where'sthe sheriff? They've done a real lowdingish
shine, he'sb man. Well,who's the watch? It's my cow?
Then robbers came in a darn tonight and snapched her riders. What is
all this yelling about, y'all lookinglike a lunatic sheriff Clary, Thank the
(22:22):
Lord you're here. They ash agroup of robbers and Ashley Ferry and they
stole my cow. What did itlook like, old man? I don't
quite remember, but they were realme fished. Well, if you can't
describe them, Timmy, then Ican't go out and find them. Kenn
I good day, sir. Butthe folks of Charleston did not like that
(22:48):
answer. Our lord he knows.Come on, boys, this robbers ain't
just a chocking travelers anymore. Nowthey're going after our own. No alarm
here farm me last teacher, myassing. A lynch mob, determined to
(23:17):
take the law into their own hands, descended upon five Mile House, lasing
here there's been a robbery and we'llhave none of it. You'll have fifteen
minutes to clear out. Are youmad? This is my home and business.
(23:41):
If you ain't paying for a night, then get off my property.
He ain't leaving, fellas teach hima lesson. When the good folks at
five Mile House refused to leave,little Lynch mob decided to burn it down.
(24:11):
Christ Look at that smoke, John, It's like a building's been burned
down or something. One mile away, at six Mile House, John Lavina
and the gang of about ten otherswatched the smoke billowing in the distance.
They knew this could not be agood sign. Let me handle this,
(24:33):
darling. Good evening, gentlemen.Listen our faults. We hear some Roberts
happy working around this area. Youhave ten minutes to clear out, or
of course, sir, we'll leaveright away. Look around all night if
(24:53):
you'd like, come on Lavinia,gentlemen. The gang instantly shuffled out,
not wanting the same fate at thefell five mile House and the mob cheered,
what game the base gone? DavidDavid Ross, come out, yes,
(25:22):
sir, be a good man andkeep watching half the naughty If those
brutes come back, you know whatto do. Of course, come on
fellas tink soon may tonight in drNo. Young mister Ross was left alone
(25:45):
at six Mile House while the otherscelebrated whatever victory they had made up for
themselves. But the Fishers, theywere fighters and this was technically their home.
So early the next morning they returned. Let's show him why he shouldn't
have messed with us. The Fishersreturned with their ten or so gang members.
(26:06):
The key player here was William Hayward. If you're good morning, folks,
we ain't too pleased with what youand your friends did last night.
Oh oh, that little gentleman,mister Hayward, that was my idea.
(26:32):
William smashed David's face with the endof his rifle. All right, all
right, I'll leave. Please letme grab my things first. William reached
into the breast of his slightly unbuttonedshirt. You damned, infernal rascal.
If you lay your hand on anything, I will blow your brains out.
(26:52):
David stumbled back. It was aboutthis time that he noticed the sweet Lavinia
Fisher. Please miss tell me,is there a word to let me grab
my belongings? I don't think so. With a devilish smirk, Lavinia choked
David with surprising force and then smashedhis head through a window. What a
badass, right, I fucking lovethat part. John and William, along
(27:18):
with two other unidentified men, grabbedwhips and started lashing David somehow, mister
David Rose was David sneak away intothe woods. Get him? Whoa slow
(27:45):
down there, fella. This isJohn Peeples, right, Yeah, the
guy that Lavinia poisons, but heescapes in the night in the legend.
Yes, Ah, why are youlaving the city? Go back? There
are a bunch of madmen on afew crazed women. Applehead, poor gentleman's
(28:11):
off his rocker. Come along,boy, the horse is a time.
Six Mile House should be just arounda band here. In reality, John
and David's path actually probably didn't cross, since John arrived at six Mile House
(28:33):
about two hours after David's assault.Now, so the horse was being fed,
John turned to a young traveling companionand requested he hand over a bucket.
I need to water the horse now, don't be difficult. What are
you too doing? John turned tosee Lavinia with her gang staring down at
him, armed mostly with sticks anda couple of guns here and there.
(28:59):
Without uttering a word, they lungedat him. Lavinia gave John's face a
few good scrapes before they returned tothe house and locked the door. John
stood up and huffily adjusted his wrinkledshirt. A bunch of scoundrels, come
(29:22):
on, we won't be staying hereany longer. He hopped into his wagon
and continued down the road, Butwithin two hundred yards two men from the
Fisher gang jumped upon his wagon,stole about forty bucks, and took off.
Flabbergasted air and scared, John rushedback to Charleston to report the crime
to the sheriff. First, misterRoss, and now you can you describe
(29:48):
the man for me, sir.I didn't quite catch every detail of them,
Sheriff, but I'm certain John andLavinia Fisher and William Heywood well among
them. Wow, the Fishers hadquite the reputation, didn't they. Well,
this is where the story gets alittle cussed. John Peoples was a
trader from Georgia. So how onearth did he know these folks by name?
(30:14):
Did the sheriff feed him the names? Unclear, but historians have a
few suspicions about this. I'll findsome gentlemen and we'll handle the folks.
A six mile house with a partyof gentlemen, as he calls them,
sheriff clear, he headed for theFishers. Hello, folks here, there
(30:38):
were a few incidents here this morning. Yes, sir, come on,
fellas, sheriff wants to take usinto town. Yes, they gave themselves
over without a scuffle. We thinkthis was either because John didn't want Lavinia
to get hurt, or well morelikely because the police had them surrounded.
Take them to the jail. Gentlemen, we'll search the house and make sure
(31:00):
they can't use it for their terrorgames any longer. As the Fishers and
company were taken away in the pattiwagon, Sheriff Cleary emptied the house and found
a cowhide, presumably belonging to StephenLacoste. Nobodies just too, but they
(31:21):
were found the ways away and aboutten days after the storming of six Mile
House, and those were the onesthat the Fishers were found guilty of murdering.
No one was nothing more than askeleton that they think belonged to a
black woman. She was most likelya slave that someone had dumped and forgot
about. The second was Fresher,and he seemed to have been shot.
(31:44):
A coroner thought that he might havedied in the scuffle at the house,
but nobody really knows for sure.I mean, technically, we don't even
know if he was murdered. Sothen who did the Fishers murder? Hey,
Bud, can we get some moredrinks over here? Please? We're
going to need them. I needto catch my breath. Okay, back
(32:13):
to our story. At least twentywitnesses watched John Peoples identify the gang members
who attacked him and the group waspromptly sent to jail. Well kind of
see, some of these people werelost to history, so I like to
imagine that they skipped town and livedhappily. Ever after, John Lavinia,
William, and a man named JosephRoberts were not as lucky though. On
(32:36):
March twenty third, Judge Ellahu Bay, a cranky old death man who stuttered
terribly, ruled that there was enoughevidence to hold the gang members in jail
on bond. While Joseph and Williamwere fortunate enough to post bail, the
Fishers were not and placed back inprison together. Wasn't Joseph the guy that
our tour guide set escaped with theFishers? If that's even true? He
(33:00):
is, and they did escape together, But Joseph led a life of crime,
and while he was returned to prisonon March twenty third after he threatened
a butcher, and what became ofWilliam Well after posting bail, he ran
away from Charleston and refused to comeback for their hearing on May tenth,
where a jury decided that there wasenough evidence to send all of them to
(33:21):
trial for assault with intent to killDavid Ross. But basically it was now
down to just the Fishers, sinceWilliam was m Ia and Joseph Roberts was
in jail for pleading guilty to assaultingMatt Butcher. So the Fishers got screwed.
Yeah, pretty much. Their trialhappened on May twenty seven, where
they were promptly found guilty and sentback to jail again. Well, at
(33:46):
least we get to be in acell together on an upper floor. Oh
no, need to thank me forfloating with that guard to get us here.
You know, I'm always thankful,especially if it gives us a chance
to escape. But don Joseph havethat whole ready yet? Just about you
(34:06):
show we should escape. Mister Heathsays he can get us out in the
Constitutional Court or whatever. This wasbasically the Court of Appeals before it existed.
That lawyer knows nothing. If thethree of us escape this week,
we don't have to wait for Januaryto see if a judge might give us
freedom. I trust you. Still, I don't think the judge will hang
(34:29):
us. I am a beautiful youngwoman, after all, a passing woman.
If they found out they're not white, they sh someone's coming. As
(34:50):
we already learned their escape on Septemberthirteenth did not work. Welcome gentlemen.
On this seventeenth day of January eighteentwenty, we gather to hear the retrial
(35:14):
John and Leavini if Fisher. Theyare charged with highway robbery against mister John
People's. Yes. Somehow, overthe year their charges were changed from assault
on David Ross to highway robbery ofJohn Peoples. Don't forget that, it'll
(35:36):
be important later. We have decidedto deny emotion for retrial John and Leavini
if Fisher are to be hanged onFebruary fourth, Your honor, please,
the Fishers need time for their salvationnow. It's one of the greatest Baptist
(36:01):
preachers of our time. The Governor'swoods, not mine. I cannot stand
by and let these souls enter hell. What about February team saved? No,
after all, after they killed allthose people two months, that's all
(36:22):
I can give them. Anymore willbe unfair to anyone who didn't kill thirty
people. Yes, your honor,that should be ample time. I am
the good people of Charleston. Thankyou, Thank you Reverend for speaking up
in court. Thank our Lord,mister Fisher Lavina come here for the prayer
(36:44):
day. Please, Lavinya, wewill have salvation. No, I don't
want salvation. I want that Godto bring me a letter releasing me from
this house. This prison will beingcompared to the hell you'll soon burning if
you don't listen. Come, Lavinia, here the man out. Fine,
(37:15):
but make it quick, Dear heavenlyFather. I come to you as humbly
as I know how, asking foryour forgiveness and salvation for John and Lavinia
on today. We know that theyhave a troubling past, but we know
(37:38):
that you. February twenty first,eighteen twenty quickly came and the Fishers were
rushered into a prep room, soto speak. No, no, no,
Lavinia, my love sh shot.Wow, it's okay, I'm gonna
(38:05):
die today. It's okay, mylove refend Furman has prayed for us,
and we will go peacefully together.You wait that calm? Are you not?
Really? No? Oh? John, your robes, pretty little creatment
out, The executioner grinned as hehanded the couple their white robes. Wait,
(38:34):
not the wet in dress. No, Lavinia wearing a wedding dress for
the execution is yet another old wivestale. And we know this because well,
logically, if six Mile House wasburned, she'd have no belongings.
But there was also a John BlakeWhite present that day, and in eighteen
thirty four he published an article titledEssays on Capital Punishment, which went into
(38:59):
great detail about the couple's execution.They way to your chariot, my lord
and lady. I'll see you onthe stage for your final bow. Here,
(39:20):
my love, take my hand andI'll help you into the patty wagon.
H good, god, there itis. Oh John, don't go
(39:42):
weak in the knees. I needyou to hold me up. You're right
hit up? Oh something, Ishall go no further. I will not
(40:04):
be hateful a crime I have notcommitted. Please please, will you tell
them I'm an honest, kind woman. Come on, Lavinia, don't make
me use force to get you upthere. Drag me along that, you
bastard. I will not move.Come home, boys, drag the young
(40:25):
lady to the scaffold. Get yourhands off for you, faster dirty hands
on the baster bite you get me, bastards. She sure? What's a
letter in your head? Is itmy parting? No, it's a letter
(40:46):
for the reverend to read. Itis a pardon from the Governor. I
know it. Haven't you figured itout yet? You stupid, simple minded
girl. You ain't getting a pardon. You get and the gallows is the
only one you can depend on now. He won't let you down. Please
(41:15):
God, dear God, please forgiveme a vices. I am a good
girl. I am I haven't donemuch wrong in my life. Please let
me come to heaven. Please?What about you, dirty John Fisher?
(41:37):
What worse do you want to be? Your last? Good folks of Charleston,
Please hear me. My wife andI are innocent of the crime we
are being hanged for today. Iwill not lie before my God. We
are victims. If there are anyamong you I have done wrong, please
(41:58):
forgive me. Reverend Furman has afew words on my behalf. This letter
excuse me. This letter has beenwritten by mister Fisher. Reverend and dear
Sir, the appointed day has arrived, the moment soon to come which will
(42:25):
finish my earthly career, and itbehooves me for the last time to address
you and the reverend gentleman associated inyour pies care. In a few moments
and the world to me shall havepassed away before the throne of the eternal
Majesty of Heaven. I must standshall then, at this dreadful hour,
(42:50):
my convulsed, agitated lips still proclaima falsehood. No been by that awful
majesty. I swear I am innocent. May the Redeemer of the world plead
for those who have sworn away mylife. The hour is come. Farewell,
(43:13):
sir, Farewell John Fisher. NowI would like to ask mister and
missus Fisher if there are any finalprayers they like me to save for.
I will have none of it,save your word for others that want them.
(43:36):
But if you have a message youwant to send the health, give
it to me. I'll carry it. Oh she really said that, yes,
sir, but in a far lessdramatic way. She just kind of
said it and then stepped back intolines of the execution and could do his
job. In their white robes.The couple hugs one final time, and
(44:08):
then at two in the afternoon,the platform fell out from under them.
Lavinia was dead instantly, but John'srope was not the right length, and
he ended up struggling for seventeen long, hygonizing minutes. Oh So, in
(44:37):
the end, John and Lavinia.Fisher were hanged for a crime that they
never really went on trial for.Now. They were criminals, for sure,
but it's a little sketchy that theydied and now their story lives on
in a much more exaggerated version.Nobody really much talks about how the government
had wronged them. You know that'sthe story I want. Well, you're
(44:59):
in luck because I have it.See, John Fisher had claimed that they
were being set up and strongly insinuatedthat it was the sheriff's doing. He
claimed that the sheriff had fed JohnPeoples their names when he was identifying his
attackers and confirmed that they were thefolks who did it. But as she
will remember, John Peoples was fromGeorgia, so I doubt that he would
(45:22):
know them by name. And BruceOr mentions in his book Six Miles to
Charleston, it's odd that John Peoplescontinued to six Mile House after passing by
the burned down five Mile House.Where's the sheriff coming to play? Well?
Mister Or speculates that John Peoples wasactually never robbed, and I would
say that the sheriff paid him offto say that he was that way.
(45:44):
The lynch mob could ride in,arrest the Fishers, and Sheriff Cleary comes
out a hero. He was upfor reelection that year, and people will
do anything to win an election.Did he win the election? No?
Then, how did an election leadto their debt? Well, that's something
else that nobody has a solid answerfor, because the records from eighteen nineteen
(46:05):
are few and far between. Ilike Bruce Orris theory though. See,
local politicians wanted the land that sixMile House stood on for a naval base,
but they needed some way to getthat land. Some of Charleston's politicians
had previously taken part in sketchy landdeals in Florida, which was the first
time this happened in America, andthey knew that if the Fishers were dead,
(46:27):
the land would become theirs. Sothe couple is arrested for assault,
but that can't easily end in ahanging but highway robbery cam So pay off
John Peoples to lie about being robbed, casually changed the charges between trials,
and then let the dumb, dirtycriminals hang because well, nobody would believe
them anyway. Do you think that'swhat happened, though, Monkey, I
(46:50):
don't know honestly, it wouldn't surpriseme though. What I do know though,
is even though the Fishers were criminals, feel a little sorry that they
God dealt such a bad hand andthen may have lost their lives for an
unfair, slightly sketchy trial. LegendsNever Die was written and narrated by me
(47:13):
Skyler Fasten Now, Monkey Man,what are you doing sh and executive produced
by mister Talkative Daniel Jones. Voicetalent was provided by Jeremy Staple, taram
Er, Perry, Jeanette Sash,Jordan Catcher, Maurice Whitfield, Juno Nafosi,
and Daniel Jones. Our theme musicwas written and performed by Tracy Zales,
(47:34):
Editing and sound designed by Brian Campbell, and cover artwork by Catherine Fasten
Now. Thank you friends for joiningus on our ghost tour of Charleston Today.
If you liked this episode, letus know by leaving a five star
review wherever you listen. It helpsothers find our show and makes me not
cry myself to sleep every night.To be the ultimate fan, checkout patreon
dot com slash og dead Time fora vault of old episodes, early access
(47:59):
to new content, merchandise, andbehind the scenes videos with me. If
you're unable to pay for Patreon rightnow, hey, I totally get that
girl. We're in a pandemic.You can still follow us on Instagram,
TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter forfree. It's a great way to keep
up with the show and tell uswhat sort of crimes you'd like to see
us cover next. The links toall of that is in our episode description.
(48:23):
Cool, are you done? No, we will be back in one
week with another chapter for your eagerears. This time we're going to Florida,
and I am stoked for Florida.Yes, because this one is going
to be personal to me. Floridais personal to you. No, but
I took part in the Florida ManChallenge and I have three stories ready for
(48:44):
our friends. Take me home,babe, all right until next week,
stay safe out there. We don'twant you to become the next chapter's topic
on the original Deadtime Stories,
Do you know what's awful when somethingtotally innocent gets twisted in the mind of
someone else and becomes a completely fabricatedstory. Has this ever happened to you?
Who are you talking to? Monk? Our guests? You know,
these kind people right here who decidedto join us in Charleston. Oh right,
(00:29):
Sorry, you guys have been realquiet back there. Ignore him,
He's just being silly. Anyway.I was just thinking about this time that
I was in fifth grade. I'venever really been a fan of group projects,
but not a team player. Youshock it, do you mind?
I'm telling our friends a story.Husbands, I put the ring on his
(00:51):
finger and he became a totally differentperson. So fifth grade, we were
doing a group project, and well, I naturally assumed that my team would
totally screw up their portions and thatwe'd all fail. I was a stressed
child who constantly planned things out becauseI knew that people would let me down.
Well, I guess my teammates didn'treally like that I was handling all
(01:14):
the work nerds and complained to myteacher that I was doing everything and not
letting them help nerds. For thefirst time in my young life, I
was asked to go into the hallwaywith my teacher, and well, you
know that's never a good sign.So once in the hall she proceeded to
tell you you need to be funto the rest of the group and let
everyone take part. Wow. HaveI told you this story before? Once
(01:40):
or twice? Go on, monkeyman. Being the good boy that I
was. When my group comes backout into the hallway to continue working,
I took it upon myself to sitthem down and compliment each of them for
some contribution they made to the project, even if I had to fabricate a
bit and pretend that their work wasjust as good as mine. Lauren,
You're our work is great, Courtney. I love your wording of the sentence
(02:02):
here, Isaac. You really Butbefore I could finish, my teacher comes
back outside and what were we justtalking about? And you're still taking control?
No, missus O. I wastelling them that they did well and
don't lie. No, missus Z. He really was. You don't have
(02:23):
to come up for him. Wow, that was a great impression of my
teacher and friend. Thank you.Now, let's wrap it up. Back
then, I believed that adults werealways right and was so confused as to
how she couldn't see that I wastrying to do what she had told me
to do moments before. I dowant to note here that missus O was
(02:44):
genuinely an incredible teacher who, bythe way, taught all three of the
fast Now siblings over the course ofnearly a decade. Though this particular incident
was not my favorite moment from thatyear, the improv that we did to
learn American history, resume right toprep us for future careers, and readings
of books like The City November arejust some of the memories that I will
(03:05):
cherish. So missus Oh, ifyou're listening, thank you for being such
a hard working teacher. And mypersonalized clipboard, which you made for every
student that you ever taught, didtravel with me to LA when I moved
out here. Welcome to the OriginalDeadtime Stories, a podcast where I Skyler
(03:25):
fast Now go beyond to the crimeto investigate human psychology and history, so
maybe we don't make the same mistakesof our ancestors. Are you doing a
live episode of our podcast right hereon the street. If you're a fan
of the show and you would liketo support us even more, head on
over to a patreon dot com,slash og deadtime. I guess we'll start
(04:01):
the chapter once we get to theOld Charleston Jail. Do you have the
directions on your phone? I havethem pulled up, but we have to
listen to an ad before it'll start. An add on Google Maps. And
(04:23):
now on with our show. We'rein the courtyard of the Old City Jail
in Charleston and our tour group isjust up ahead. You're starting to creep
me out. Hey, y'all,are you here for the Ghost of the
Jail Tour? Yes? I havethe tickets all right here on my phone.
Oh don't worry, guys, Ibought tickets for all of us.
(04:44):
So thank you for joining us onour vacation. Oh Kenny, and you're
all chipped in umkakatie and I'll beyour dad this evening. Thank we're all
here, So let's get started abit. I hope this is yeah.
I'm so excited. I am soglad you're excited. Will allow me to
(05:06):
be the first to welcome you tothe Old City Jail. Now, this
structure here was built in eighteen otwo and actually stood at four stories.
Right there in the middle right therewas once a tower that added an additional
two stories. You'll notice it's missingto day, and that's because we had
(05:27):
a huge earthquake in eighteen eighty sixthat destroyed the tower and the fourth floor,
which is why we can only seeshe's talking so much. Who hares
while the earthquake? Why is thisearthquake so important? I heard that question
from the back there. Why isthis earthquake important? Why are we e
been talking about this, Katie?Why are we been talking about this today?
Well, some say it opened upa gateway for the spirits to enter
(05:49):
our world, because we saw anincreasing activity ever since. Shall we go
inside? Are you right? Guys? Right this way? So this prison
(06:13):
was closed in nineteen thirty nine,but a group purchased it in two thousand
and it's been undergoing constant preservation eversince. I don't think all the ghosts
have appreciated that, though, andthey have made their presence known to us.
His wife, Oh, I'm sorry, sir, Yes, sir,
Please don't touch the building. Yeah, oils will definitely damage it. Thank
you. So sometimes ghosts make themselvesknown to us on this tour. And
(06:35):
if you feel anything strange, pleaseplease tell me. So we can examine
that together. What kind of thingshave happened on your tours? Tons,
tons of different things. People haveseen an angry old jailer running towards them
before vanishing. There's been a slavein rags wandering the halls before. And
(06:55):
some lucky people have even seen Laviniain the wedding dress that she was in.
We're gonna head up these stairs overhere now to see the Salavinia state.
Oh wait a second, Katie,Katie, Hi, Sorry, I
didn't get a chance to tell myfriends here who Lavinia Fisher was. Can
(07:18):
you tell them as we walked totallyTo fully understand Lavinia and John Fisher,
you guys have to understand what Charlestonwas like in the eighteen hundreds. Our
population was actually predominantly slaves and freeblacks, but they essentially had no power.
Of course, right, the topfive percent of white people owned more
(07:40):
than a half the wealth, whichcaused a lot of tension. But Charleston
was a huge hump for trade withour ports and wagons coming into the city,
and it was not uncommon for piratesor highwaymen to attack these traders and
robbed them. Now, Jacky's gota lot of goods on him beating down
(08:18):
I'll kill him, I don't care, but take everything you can carry at
us house ahead, gentlemen, that'swhat John's been hiding out, hits that
(08:46):
Downfrow robbed from my names. Charlestonwas facing a huge depression, and they
didn't want their economy to crash,right, because if people heard they'd be
robbed in the city, they'd stoppedcoming into trade. So Lynch mobs often
took the law into their own handsand hunted down robbers at the ends along
the roads. Oh so they're likethe precursors to the guys who stormed the
(09:20):
capitol in January twenty twenty one.Yeah, that's moss while you're looking at
it. And those ends were calledfive mile House or six mile House because
that's how far they were from Charlestonexactly, and Lavinia and her husband John
operated out of six Mile House.Now I want all of you to imagine
you've been riding on horseback all dayand totally exhausted. You show up at
(09:45):
a little in six miles from thecity and knock on the door. You're
greeted by a gorgeou just woman,possibly of mixed race. Well, hello,
sir. This is Lavinia Fisher,a woman built by Satan. Are
(10:11):
you in need of lodging for thenight, yes, ma'am John. Do
we have a room, yes,darling, ah wonderful. Come on in,
sir and rest while we prepare theroom. Thank you, ma'am.
(10:33):
Here, sir, have some ofmy horrible tea. I'll ease your tired
bones. Thank you, ma'am.Ah, this is the best tea I've
had. It's an old recipe.Put you right at ease, I'll say
(10:56):
it does. So. Are youtraveling into Charleston, No, ma'am just
left. I spent the whole daysell them of first, and came from
up north with a wagon full ofthem and managed to sell almost everyone.
The room is ready. Come along, sir. You don't want to fall
(11:18):
asleep right here after a long dayat the market. It was Lavinia's job
to lure in mad with her beauty, chat them up to see if they
were rich, and if they metthe Fisher's criteria, they take the poor
(11:41):
guy to his room. You'll findthe bed quite comfortable, sir. Good
night. That tea, by theway, was poisoned with oleander, so
(12:05):
the men would either fall asleep ordie. Once they were sure he was
asleep, John sneak in and hekilled them and take whatever money or goods
(12:31):
were on them. I'm not gruesomeenough for you, young man. No,
well, then how about this.Sometimes if they wanted to have a
little fun with their guest, they'dsend him up to bed after tea good
night, and once he was asleep, John or Lavinia would pull a special
(12:58):
lever. The bed would open upand the unsuspecting traveler would fall into a
joint pit in the cellar. Theguests would be welcome to the basement by
a nice sharp spy. Right,isn't that incredible? And their method work
(13:26):
too until a man named John Peopleshowed up. He was a fur trader,
and Lavinia, like always, askedhim a zillion questions about what he
did good night. But what Laviniadidn't know was John hated tea and dumped
it out when she wasn't looking.He wasn't poisoned and was fully aware of
(13:50):
how weird the questions were afraid ofbeing ribed. Mister People's fell asleep in
a chair beside the door. Goodnessgracious, Once mister People's witness the bed
opened up, he latched the windowand ran like the wind into town to
(14:11):
report the attempted robbery to Sheriff NathanielGreen Cleary. Sheriff Cleary burned down six
small house and arrested John Lavinia intheir gang robbers. When the fire was
out, they found twenty to thirtybodies in the cellar. I know that's
(14:37):
too many bodies. John and Laviniaseemed to be pretty successful with their robberies,
but couldn't avoid this jail Behind meis these sail The Fishers were locked
in. What's with a crappy brickwork? Oh? I am so glad you
mentioned that jonesie that was actually patchedup. While the Fishers were here,
(15:03):
John Lavinia and one of their gangmembers named Joseph Robert had dug through the
wall to make an escape. Yougot them blankets, Lavina, Yes,
sir, tied a real tight Goodgirl, Joseph, you go first,
then I'll follow. If they holdus, they'll hold you, Lavina,
Go Joseph. I don't know whenthat guard will come back. M wait
(15:35):
until I give you the signal.Okay. Their blanket line failed and John
fell about ten twenty feet. Hesurvived the fall, but didn't want to
(15:58):
leave without his wife. Sure,him and Joseph put their heads together to
figure out how to save Lavinia,but every idea seemed like it would end
with their capture. In the end, a suspicious grocer saw them sneaking around
his property and followed them to aboat they were hiding under. The sheriff
(16:18):
was called and they were sent rightback to prison after all. Now,
if y'all look out this window,you'll see the courtyard we got serving in.
That's where the gallows was. Thefishers were quickly found guilty of highway
robbery and sentenced to be hung downthere, And that's where we're going next.
(16:48):
These stairs here would have been thesame ones Lavinia used the day she
died. Just imagine beautiful Lavinia walkingdown and a milky out wendrows. Christ,
what are you doing in that?The judge said, he'll hang you.
First of all, I can't saywe're married anymore. If a poor
(17:11):
gentleman in the crowd sees me inthis, then maybe he'll pity me and
ask me to marry him. Thenthey can't hate me because he'll be a
marrying again. It'll never work.Foolish girl, shut up your flag investts
(17:33):
you fluting bitches and priston this street. Y'all had husbands who voted everywhere guilty,
but we are innocent. Knock itoff, Lavinia. Oh please,
but you'll give me for everything I'vedone? Please you, sir? Who
would you let a poornessvented it?Yeah? You're gry me how a staff
(18:00):
stipid lash? Damn you ride yardbassets. A lot of y'all come on,
act like a lady. Dear HeavenlyFather, please bless mister and missus
John Fisher today. Forgive them fortheir sins. See that they have accepted
(18:21):
our Lord, and save you,Jesus Christ, into their hearts, and
wish to serve you at your gatesin heaven. Yes, Lord, forgive
me for my sins. Shove itup your hearts. God, forgive her
father before she knows not what shesays. Lavinia, find it in your
(18:41):
heart to accept Jesus. Let mepray for you. I can tell him
you are snease. I will havenone of it. Save your words for
others that want them. But ifyou have a message you want to send
to help, give it to me. I'll carrot. She lived right off
(19:07):
the platform without waiting for the executioner. The platform fell from under John right
after. It seems Lavinian never madeit to Hell to tell Satan any messages,
(19:36):
though, because people see her walkingthrough the Unitarian Church's cemetery where she's
buried. Unfortunately, we don't havetime to go there on this tour,
but I always encourage my guests todrop by and see if Lavinia will meet
with them. Ladies and gents,this concludes our ghost tour of the Old
City Jail. Oh up, whoa, whoa No No, Katie, Katie
(20:03):
Hi Hi Skyler Fastone, hosting creatorof the original Deadtime Stories, the best
true crime podcast out there. Myhumble opinion, you've been lovely, fabulous,
really truly, but that's not howthe story of the Fisher family goes.
Excuse me, sorry, guys,let me clear things up here with
Katie. You guys go over tothe bar and I'll meet up with you
(20:26):
in the same time it takes tohave a commercial break. Welcome back to
our show. We never left.Jonesy and I are sitting in a bar
(20:48):
after ripping apart our tour guide,and you guys are here just in time
to hear me tell Lavinia's real storyover here. We saved you us,
Jool Jim Love, Can you pourour friends and drinks? Okay, so
Katie was partially right about the Fishers. They did operate six Mile House,
(21:10):
and Charleston was based in a financialcrisis with an uptick and highway robbery,
and from what I can tell,Lavinia and John didn't mind robbing traders and
the tea. No record of Laviniagiving out only undertea trapdoor. Oh god,
I wish, but no. Also, something about a bed that opens
up into a basement with the flickof a switch in the eighteen hundreds just
(21:33):
seems highly unlikely to me. Nowlet's go back to February sixteen, eighteen
nineteen. Whoa, whoa clone,town fellow? You're you're driving a one
(21:59):
one? Where's the sheriff? Where'sthe sheriff? They've done a real lowdingish
shine, he'sb man. Well,who's the watch? It's my cow?
Then robbers came in a darn tonight and snapched her riders. What is
all this yelling about, y'all lookinglike a lunatic sheriff Clary, Thank the
(22:22):
Lord you're here. They ash agroup of robbers and Ashley Ferry and they
stole my cow. What did itlook like, old man? I don't
quite remember, but they were realme fished. Well, if you can't
describe them, Timmy, then Ican't go out and find them. Kenn
I good day, sir. Butthe folks of Charleston did not like that
(22:48):
answer. Our lord he knows.Come on, boys, this robbers ain't
just a chocking travelers anymore. Nowthey're going after our own. No alarm
here farm me last teacher, myassing. A lynch mob, determined to
(23:17):
take the law into their own hands, descended upon five Mile House, lasing
here there's been a robbery and we'llhave none of it. You'll have fifteen
minutes to clear out. Are youmad? This is my home and business.
(23:41):
If you ain't paying for a night, then get off my property.
He ain't leaving, fellas teach hima lesson. When the good folks at
five Mile House refused to leave,little Lynch mob decided to burn it down.
(24:11):
Christ Look at that smoke, John, It's like a building's been burned
down or something. One mile away, at six Mile House, John Lavina
and the gang of about ten otherswatched the smoke billowing in the distance.
They knew this could not be agood sign. Let me handle this,
(24:33):
darling. Good evening, gentlemen.Listen our faults. We hear some Roberts
happy working around this area. Youhave ten minutes to clear out, or
of course, sir, we'll leaveright away. Look around all night if
(24:53):
you'd like, come on Lavinia,gentlemen. The gang instantly shuffled out,
not wanting the same fate at thefell five mile House and the mob cheered,
what game the base gone? DavidDavid Ross, come out, yes,
(25:22):
sir, be a good man andkeep watching half the naughty If those
brutes come back, you know whatto do. Of course, come on
fellas tink soon may tonight in drNo. Young mister Ross was left alone
(25:45):
at six Mile House while the otherscelebrated whatever victory they had made up for
themselves. But the Fishers, theywere fighters and this was technically their home.
So early the next morning they returned. Let's show him why he shouldn't
have messed with us. The Fishersreturned with their ten or so gang members.
(26:06):
The key player here was William Hayward. If you're good morning, folks,
we ain't too pleased with what youand your friends did last night.
Oh oh, that little gentleman,mister Hayward, that was my idea.
(26:32):
William smashed David's face with the endof his rifle. All right, all
right, I'll leave. Please letme grab my things first. William reached
into the breast of his slightly unbuttonedshirt. You damned, infernal rascal.
If you lay your hand on anything, I will blow your brains out.
(26:52):
David stumbled back. It was aboutthis time that he noticed the sweet Lavinia
Fisher. Please miss tell me,is there a word to let me grab
my belongings? I don't think so. With a devilish smirk, Lavinia choked
David with surprising force and then smashedhis head through a window. What a
badass, right, I fucking lovethat part. John and William, along
(27:18):
with two other unidentified men, grabbedwhips and started lashing David somehow, mister
David Rose was David sneak away intothe woods. Get him? Whoa slow
(27:45):
down there, fella. This isJohn Peeples, right, Yeah, the
guy that Lavinia poisons, but heescapes in the night in the legend.
Yes, Ah, why are youlaving the city? Go back? There
are a bunch of madmen on afew crazed women. Applehead, poor gentleman's
(28:11):
off his rocker. Come along,boy, the horse is a time.
Six Mile House should be just arounda band here. In reality, John
and David's path actually probably didn't cross, since John arrived at six Mile House
(28:33):
about two hours after David's assault.Now, so the horse was being fed,
John turned to a young traveling companionand requested he hand over a bucket.
I need to water the horse now, don't be difficult. What are
you too doing? John turned tosee Lavinia with her gang staring down at
him, armed mostly with sticks anda couple of guns here and there.
(28:59):
Without uttering a word, they lungedat him. Lavinia gave John's face a
few good scrapes before they returned tothe house and locked the door. John
stood up and huffily adjusted his wrinkledshirt. A bunch of scoundrels, come
(29:22):
on, we won't be staying hereany longer. He hopped into his wagon
and continued down the road, Butwithin two hundred yards two men from the
Fisher gang jumped upon his wagon,stole about forty bucks, and took off.
Flabbergasted air and scared, John rushedback to Charleston to report the crime
to the sheriff. First, misterRoss, and now you can you describe
(29:48):
the man for me, sir.I didn't quite catch every detail of them,
Sheriff, but I'm certain John andLavinia Fisher and William Heywood well among
them. Wow, the Fishers hadquite the reputation, didn't they. Well,
this is where the story gets alittle cussed. John Peoples was a
trader from Georgia. So how onearth did he know these folks by name?
(30:14):
Did the sheriff feed him the names? Unclear, but historians have a
few suspicions about this. I'll findsome gentlemen and we'll handle the folks.
A six mile house with a partyof gentlemen, as he calls them,
sheriff clear, he headed for theFishers. Hello, folks here, there
(30:38):
were a few incidents here this morning. Yes, sir, come on,
fellas, sheriff wants to take usinto town. Yes, they gave themselves
over without a scuffle. We thinkthis was either because John didn't want Lavinia
to get hurt, or well morelikely because the police had them surrounded.
Take them to the jail. Gentlemen, we'll search the house and make sure
(31:00):
they can't use it for their terrorgames any longer. As the Fishers and
company were taken away in the pattiwagon, Sheriff Cleary emptied the house and found
a cowhide, presumably belonging to StephenLacoste. Nobodies just too, but they
(31:21):
were found the ways away and aboutten days after the storming of six Mile
House, and those were the onesthat the Fishers were found guilty of murdering.
No one was nothing more than askeleton that they think belonged to a
black woman. She was most likelya slave that someone had dumped and forgot
about. The second was Fresher,and he seemed to have been shot.
(31:44):
A coroner thought that he might havedied in the scuffle at the house,
but nobody really knows for sure.I mean, technically, we don't even
know if he was murdered. Sothen who did the Fishers murder? Hey,
Bud, can we get some moredrinks over here? Please? We're
going to need them. I needto catch my breath. Okay, back
(32:13):
to our story. At least twentywitnesses watched John Peoples identify the gang members
who attacked him and the group waspromptly sent to jail. Well kind of
see, some of these people werelost to history, so I like to
imagine that they skipped town and livedhappily. Ever after, John Lavinia,
William, and a man named JosephRoberts were not as lucky though. On
(32:36):
March twenty third, Judge Ellahu Bay, a cranky old death man who stuttered
terribly, ruled that there was enoughevidence to hold the gang members in jail
on bond. While Joseph and Williamwere fortunate enough to post bail, the
Fishers were not and placed back inprison together. Wasn't Joseph the guy that
our tour guide set escaped with theFishers? If that's even true? He
(33:00):
is, and they did escape together, But Joseph led a life of crime,
and while he was returned to prisonon March twenty third after he threatened
a butcher, and what became ofWilliam Well after posting bail, he ran
away from Charleston and refused to comeback for their hearing on May tenth,
where a jury decided that there wasenough evidence to send all of them to
(33:21):
trial for assault with intent to killDavid Ross. But basically it was now
down to just the Fishers, sinceWilliam was m Ia and Joseph Roberts was
in jail for pleading guilty to assaultingMatt Butcher. So the Fishers got screwed.
Yeah, pretty much. Their trialhappened on May twenty seven, where
they were promptly found guilty and sentback to jail again. Well, at
(33:46):
least we get to be in acell together on an upper floor. Oh
no, need to thank me forfloating with that guard to get us here.
You know, I'm always thankful,especially if it gives us a chance
to escape. But don Joseph havethat whole ready yet? Just about you
(34:06):
show we should escape. Mister Heathsays he can get us out in the
Constitutional Court or whatever. This wasbasically the Court of Appeals before it existed.
That lawyer knows nothing. If thethree of us escape this week,
we don't have to wait for Januaryto see if a judge might give us
freedom. I trust you. Still, I don't think the judge will hang
(34:29):
us. I am a beautiful youngwoman, after all, a passing woman.
If they found out they're not white, they sh someone's coming. As
(34:50):
we already learned their escape on Septemberthirteenth did not work. Welcome gentlemen.
On this seventeenth day of January eighteentwenty, we gather to hear the retrial
(35:14):
John and Leavini if Fisher. Theyare charged with highway robbery against mister John
People's. Yes. Somehow, overthe year their charges were changed from assault
on David Ross to highway robbery ofJohn Peoples. Don't forget that, it'll
(35:36):
be important later. We have decidedto deny emotion for retrial John and Leavini
if Fisher are to be hanged onFebruary fourth, Your honor, please,
the Fishers need time for their salvationnow. It's one of the greatest Baptist
(36:01):
preachers of our time. The Governor'swoods, not mine. I cannot stand
by and let these souls enter hell. What about February team saved? No,
after all, after they killed allthose people two months, that's all
(36:22):
I can give them. Anymore willbe unfair to anyone who didn't kill thirty
people. Yes, your honor,that should be ample time. I am
the good people of Charleston. Thankyou, Thank you Reverend for speaking up
in court. Thank our Lord,mister Fisher Lavina come here for the prayer
(36:44):
day. Please, Lavinya, wewill have salvation. No, I don't
want salvation. I want that Godto bring me a letter releasing me from
this house. This prison will beingcompared to the hell you'll soon burning if
you don't listen. Come, Lavinia, here the man out. Fine,
(37:15):
but make it quick, Dear heavenlyFather. I come to you as humbly
as I know how, asking foryour forgiveness and salvation for John and Lavinia
on today. We know that theyhave a troubling past, but we know
(37:38):
that you. February twenty first,eighteen twenty quickly came and the Fishers were
rushered into a prep room, soto speak. No, no, no,
Lavinia, my love sh shot.Wow, it's okay, I'm gonna
(38:05):
die today. It's okay, mylove refend Furman has prayed for us,
and we will go peacefully together.You wait that calm? Are you not?
Really? No? Oh? John, your robes, pretty little creatment
out, The executioner grinned as hehanded the couple their white robes. Wait,
(38:34):
not the wet in dress. No, Lavinia wearing a wedding dress for
the execution is yet another old wivestale. And we know this because well,
logically, if six Mile House wasburned, she'd have no belongings.
But there was also a John BlakeWhite present that day, and in eighteen
thirty four he published an article titledEssays on Capital Punishment, which went into
(38:59):
great detail about the couple's execution.They way to your chariot, my lord
and lady. I'll see you onthe stage for your final bow. Here,
(39:20):
my love, take my hand andI'll help you into the patty wagon.
H good, god, there itis. Oh John, don't go
(39:42):
weak in the knees. I needyou to hold me up. You're right
hit up? Oh something, Ishall go no further. I will not
(40:04):
be hateful a crime I have notcommitted. Please please, will you tell
them I'm an honest, kind woman. Come on, Lavinia, don't make
me use force to get you upthere. Drag me along that, you
bastard. I will not move.Come home, boys, drag the young
(40:25):
lady to the scaffold. Get yourhands off for you, faster dirty hands
on the baster bite you get me, bastards. She sure? What's a
letter in your head? Is itmy parting? No, it's a letter
(40:46):
for the reverend to read. Itis a pardon from the Governor. I
know it. Haven't you figured itout yet? You stupid, simple minded
girl. You ain't getting a pardon. You get and the gallows is the
only one you can depend on now. He won't let you down. Please
(41:15):
God, dear God, please forgiveme a vices. I am a good
girl. I am I haven't donemuch wrong in my life. Please let
me come to heaven. Please?What about you, dirty John Fisher?
(41:37):
What worse do you want to be? Your last? Good folks of Charleston,
Please hear me. My wife andI are innocent of the crime we
are being hanged for today. Iwill not lie before my God. We
are victims. If there are anyamong you I have done wrong, please
(41:58):
forgive me. Reverend Furman has afew words on my behalf. This letter
excuse me. This letter has beenwritten by mister Fisher. Reverend and dear
Sir, the appointed day has arrived, the moment soon to come which will
(42:25):
finish my earthly career, and itbehooves me for the last time to address
you and the reverend gentleman associated inyour pies care. In a few moments
and the world to me shall havepassed away before the throne of the eternal
Majesty of Heaven. I must standshall then, at this dreadful hour,
(42:50):
my convulsed, agitated lips still proclaima falsehood. No been by that awful
majesty. I swear I am innocent. May the Redeemer of the world plead
for those who have sworn away mylife. The hour is come. Farewell,
(43:13):
sir, Farewell John Fisher. NowI would like to ask mister and
missus Fisher if there are any finalprayers they like me to save for.
I will have none of it,save your word for others that want them.
(43:36):
But if you have a message youwant to send the health, give
it to me. I'll carry it. Oh she really said that, yes,
sir, but in a far lessdramatic way. She just kind of
said it and then stepped back intolines of the execution and could do his
job. In their white robes.The couple hugs one final time, and
(44:08):
then at two in the afternoon,the platform fell out from under them.
Lavinia was dead instantly, but John'srope was not the right length, and
he ended up struggling for seventeen long, hygonizing minutes. Oh So, in
(44:37):
the end, John and Lavinia.Fisher were hanged for a crime that they
never really went on trial for.Now. They were criminals, for sure,
but it's a little sketchy that theydied and now their story lives on
in a much more exaggerated version.Nobody really much talks about how the government
had wronged them. You know that'sthe story I want. Well, you're
(44:59):
in luck because I have it.See, John Fisher had claimed that they
were being set up and strongly insinuatedthat it was the sheriff's doing. He
claimed that the sheriff had fed JohnPeoples their names when he was identifying his
attackers and confirmed that they were thefolks who did it. But as she
will remember, John Peoples was fromGeorgia, so I doubt that he would
(45:22):
know them by name. And BruceOr mentions in his book Six Miles to
Charleston, it's odd that John Peoplescontinued to six Mile House after passing by
the burned down five Mile House.Where's the sheriff coming to play? Well?
Mister Or speculates that John Peoples wasactually never robbed, and I would
say that the sheriff paid him offto say that he was that way.
(45:44):
The lynch mob could ride in,arrest the Fishers, and Sheriff Cleary comes
out a hero. He was upfor reelection that year, and people will
do anything to win an election.Did he win the election? No?
Then, how did an election leadto their debt? Well, that's something
else that nobody has a solid answerfor, because the records from eighteen nineteen
(46:05):
are few and far between. Ilike Bruce Orris theory though. See,
local politicians wanted the land that sixMile House stood on for a naval base,
but they needed some way to getthat land. Some of Charleston's politicians
had previously taken part in sketchy landdeals in Florida, which was the first
time this happened in America, andthey knew that if the Fishers were dead,
(46:27):
the land would become theirs. Sothe couple is arrested for assault,
but that can't easily end in ahanging but highway robbery cam So pay off
John Peoples to lie about being robbed, casually changed the charges between trials,
and then let the dumb, dirtycriminals hang because well, nobody would believe
them anyway. Do you think that'swhat happened, though, Monkey, I
(46:50):
don't know honestly, it wouldn't surpriseme though. What I do know though,
is even though the Fishers were criminals, feel a little sorry that they
God dealt such a bad hand andthen may have lost their lives for an
unfair, slightly sketchy trial. LegendsNever Die was written and narrated by me
(47:13):
Skyler Fasten Now, Monkey Man,what are you doing sh and executive produced
by mister Talkative Daniel Jones. Voicetalent was provided by Jeremy Staple, taram
Er, Perry, Jeanette Sash,Jordan Catcher, Maurice Whitfield, Juno Nafosi,
and Daniel Jones. Our theme musicwas written and performed by Tracy Zales,
(47:34):
Editing and sound designed by Brian Campbell, and cover artwork by Catherine Fasten
Now. Thank you friends for joiningus on our ghost tour of Charleston Today.
If you liked this episode, letus know by leaving a five star
review wherever you listen. It helpsothers find our show and makes me not
cry myself to sleep every night.To be the ultimate fan, checkout patreon
dot com slash og dead Time fora vault of old episodes, early access
(47:59):
to new content, merchandise, andbehind the scenes videos with me. If
you're unable to pay for Patreon rightnow, hey, I totally get that
girl. We're in a pandemic.You can still follow us on Instagram,
TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter forfree. It's a great way to keep
up with the show and tell uswhat sort of crimes you'd like to see
us cover next. The links toall of that is in our episode description.
(48:23):
Cool, are you done? No, we will be back in one
week with another chapter for your eagerears. This time we're going to Florida,
and I am stoked for Florida.Yes, because this one is going
to be personal to me. Floridais personal to you. No, but
I took part in the Florida ManChallenge and I have three stories ready for
(48:44):
our friends. Take me home,babe, all right until next week,
stay safe out there. We don'twant you to become the next chapter's topic
on the original Deadtime Stories,
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