Cleveland City Council President Blaine Griffin joins the show to talk about being victorious on the "no on issue 38" campaign, how to get voters more involved and engaged in the process and more.
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(00:01):
This is the FCB Podcast Network.This is The l Laws Extra. Welcome
to the Outlaws Extra. This isDARVEYO to Kingpennmorrow. Don't forget too Like
(00:21):
us on Facebook at Facebook dot com, slash the Outlaws Radio, follow us
on Twitter and Instagram at the Outlawsor Radios. It's gonna be real quick.
We have a special episode once againwith Cleveland City Council President Blaine Griffin
talking about the results of the Issuethirty eight vote that we have talked about
numerous times on this show. Forthose of you who are unaware, Issue
(00:44):
thirty eight failed, which is theoutcome that I was rooting for and hoping
for. And so we're going totalk a little bit with Council President Griffin
about what to do next, whatcomes now moving forward. So stay tuned.
We are going to take a breaknow and go to the interview in
(01:07):
its entirety. You're listening to Theout Laws Extra. True Sir Pray,
welcome back, Welcome back, andnow is our interview with Cleveland City Council
President Griffin. All right, wehave a very special guest or with us
(01:30):
today back on the show, ClevelandCouncil President Blaine Griffin. I'm gonna say,
taken a little bit of a takinga little bit of a victory lap,
but there's more work to be done. Welcome back. How how you
doing, sir, How are youfeeling this morning. I'm doing great,
man, I'm doing great. Thanksfor asking, man. I know it
was a long day yesterday. Yeah, it was a long day. And
(01:53):
but you know, we're happy abouta hard part, you know, our
victory. And I really think thatI'm proud of my council. They really
fought for the citizens of the Cityof Cleveland, and we stuck together and
we built a great alliance with theresidents and organizers throughout the city of Cleveland,
as well as the labor unions.And I think we've built the momentum
(02:15):
and we've you know, started somethingin the City of Cleveland that hopefully we
can keep the momentum going. Yeah. For people who haven't seen, who
aren't aware, Issue thirty eight,which was the so called participatory budgeting initiative
failed in the City of Cleveland.I was personally glad to see that.
(02:38):
I mean, I've made no bonesabout the fact that I was opposed to
it. I've been opposed to itfrom the beginning publicly, what message do
you think and we'll talk about thefact that it was you know, it
was close later, but what messagedo you think the voter sent by rejecting
this proposal, that the voters aremore in tuned with government. Then people
(03:00):
may think, I think that somepeople have seen the flaws in the proposal.
I think that, you know,some people. The more that we
got a chance to educate people onthis, that we made people recognize that
they really had to take their timeand understand the issues, because we know
that there were like three populist issuesthat were going to be a yes.
(03:23):
So our entire conversation was to educateand persuade the voters to go our way.
And I think we did a greatjob of really articulating our position and
helping voters, which are very smartbecause you can't take advantage of Clevelander's helped
them understand how this would have beena catastrophic to their service delivery system,
(03:44):
right right, And I mean,obviously I believe that, I mean,
I agree with all of that.It's one of the reasons why I was
opposed to it, and people whofollowed me know that I, you know,
I don't often go all in onan issue or you know, make
it, make my views known publiclywhere I'm going to go on a certain
(04:08):
issue. But I thought this onewas important enough to h to address that
fully and publicly because it could havebeen catastrophic to the city had it passed.
Now, the fact is it wasa narrow victory, so that that
says that they were successful in convincingsome people. How do you reach out
(04:32):
to the people who voted for thisand bring them in. Well, what
it taught me is, you know, the lesson I learned from Fanny Lewis,
delay, Fanny Lewis, and alsomost recently Frank Jackson when he was
counseling Frank Jackson, is that wehave to spend a tremendous amount of time
educating people on how government works.That's number one. You know, how
(04:55):
council is structured, how our committeesare structured, our decisions are made,
the different parts of dollars that wehave, from the general fund to the
capital outlay, which is really donethrough restricted income tax dollars, which is
like one point nine percent of thebudget. Really helping people understand, you
know, the enterprise funds like thewater and the airport, and the reason
(05:18):
I'm mentioning all these things to you, even with council discretionary fund like CDBG
dollars and casino dollars, the reasonI'm mentioning this to you is because this
is a very you know, verycomplicated thread of funding streams from federal,
state, and local revenue that causesthis city to run. And I think
(05:41):
sometimes people put misinformation and they makepopulist messages, but the broader public doesn't
really understand how all of the dollarsreally work and what they are supposed to
be applied to. So we needto do a better job of really educating
our public, which I really wantto put out a call to the public,
even people like yourself. I thinkI would love to have more seminars
where we actually host how does thegovernment work for you? And how would
(06:05):
you like to see your government work, and being more inattentional with the you
know, the public on what theywould like to see. I also think
Darville, the biggest message that theywere trying to get across is this whole
stadiums over streets conversation. But whata lot of people don't realize is that
we fought hard as a community toget the Browns. Somebody made a decision,
(06:28):
you know, decades ago, ifnot more than that, to get
into the sports business as a majoreconomy and a major driver of our economy
in the city of Cleveland. Sothese stadium deals that people try to condemn,
they actually translate to the city servicesthat they're saying that they don't get
that. They translate to the streetsgetting paid. They translate to having more
(06:48):
police officers. They translate to tryingto make sure that you have your potholes
field and you know, that housetorn down. So what they don't realize
is these are you know, thatare going towards the capitalistic structure in order
for us to make sure that wehave the resources we need in order to
(07:09):
provide the city services. So wegot to do a bit of job of
showing people that they're getting a returnon their investment. We're talking with Cleveland
Council President Blank Griffin. I've alwaysfound the you know, the stadium,
the people over stadium's argument to bedisingenuous, partly because of what you said,
but also too I've seen, youknow, I've went behind the scenes
(07:30):
when you go to a Browns game, uh in particular, and you see
who who's working at the stadium,and the most of the people who are
working at the stadium look like usexactly. The ones that are doing the
concessions, the ones that are security, they're one. So it's not only
you know, the tax dollars youknow that the team brings in, but
(07:55):
there are people in our community whoare working there who were you know,
they have jobs from the stadiums andfrom the teams and stuff like that.
So I've always found that to bethat argument to be a little disingenuous.
You know. On the other hand, though, I do understand that there
(08:16):
are people who feel like they arenot full participants in the city's process,
in the city's decision making. Sowhat can be done to make people feel
like they are a bigger part ofthe process? Well, I mean,
and that's a good question. Howcan people feel a bigger part of the
(08:39):
process. One of the things thatwas frustrating through this whole conversation is,
first of all, there was alot of outside people and a lot of
outside money that was helping propel theYes side, And you know, there
were a lot of promises being madeas if you know, everybody was going
to get a chicken in every pot, and there was going to be grants
passed out. They were going tobe able to just you know, do
(09:01):
a bunch of things that it wasdisingenuous. You know. The reason that
I bring that up is because whatwe have to do is we have to
tell people the truth. We haveto start telling people how government is supposed
to work, and that you know, you got to put some skin in
the game. Like I said,a lot of the frustration that we had
was that yet outside people and peoplequite frankly that were a part of this
(09:24):
team, that were giving this informationto people, and that's dangerous. So
we got to make sure one wearen't people with the information. But then
number two, you got to comeand put some skin in the game.
You can't sit back on your couchand not participate. One of the reasons,
let's face it, the reason thatthey tried to take advantage of this
is because they used one of ourdisabilities as a community is our lack of
(09:48):
voting. So the fact that wedidn't vote, this group of people with
radical ideas, you know, waswere able to come and try to infiltrate
that, and you know, that'sso we got to get our voting percentages
up. And then, Garbrielle,I told you this several times before.
We have to do a better jobof attracting, you know, the middle
(10:09):
class, middle income, middle classfolks coming back into our neighborhoods because they
have more at stake. A lotof people behind this. They don't have
homes that they bought their children,don't go to the schools, they don't
live in the communities that you knowthey need safety in. They're basically renters
in a lot of cases where peoplethat don't have steak in the game.
(10:30):
So we got to make sure thatthe people that really have steak in the
game come to the table too,because they're going to be the ones that's
going to be more practical about whatthey'd like to see in their community as
opposed to less ideological. It's funnyyou said that too, because I was
actually just getting ready to bring thatup, because I do find it interesting
that you have people who are makingthis argument and they're attacking you because basically
(10:54):
you were the face of the opposition, but as far as what people are
actually saying that they need, you'reone of the only people in city leadership
that I ever hear talking about it. And I've told you, I've told
you that publicly and privately. Youknow, the middle class restoring the middle
(11:15):
class conversation is an important conversation tohave in this city, and you seem
to be the only one willing tohave it because that ultimately, that's really
what is needed. You have peoplewho came in from the outside who were
playing on the real, legitimate issuesthat parts of our community still have.
(11:37):
There are issues in our community.There are times where development dollars and all
these other things don't get to theareas that they need to as quickly as
they as they could and should.We should be growing economically and making sure
that more people can participate in it. But it's interesting to me that they
(11:58):
hold you up as some roadblock whenyou, in my view, you're the
only one willing to have that conversationexactly. And you know, first of
all, people are always going totry to define, you know, someone
who's in opposition. The biggest issueis I'm in their way. You know,
they want they live their a microwavegeneration that feel like they just want
(12:18):
to press the butt that make change. But often tell people that change is
a process, not an event.Okay, so just because you arrived and
you got great ideas, you know, you got to recognize that sometimes there's
been guardrails put in place in orderto protect our democracy. And it's not
about me, which they try toclaim sometime upholding a status quo or anything
(12:39):
else like that. It's about mesometimes being the adult in the room and
telling some people that you know what, hey, guys, you know may
not be able to have all ofthat sugar because we need to actually have
something healthy in our diet. Andit's hard to have that conversation because you're
not talking about all of the sweetstuff that everybody want to see in all
of you know, nice feel goodstuff. Sometimes you got to have a
(13:01):
hard conversation with people and say whatwe can afford and what we can't afford,
what are our priorities and what arenot are our priorities? And when
you have to be that adult inthe room, you oftentimes are the person
that are seeing as the obstructionists ortrying to uphold the status quote. Know,
what I'm trying to do is protectpeople who have sacrificed for years to
(13:22):
make this a great city and I'llbe damned if I let people come to
the table and try to undermine it. All that hard work, with all
the posts that we do every daywell, and part of the issue too
is that you know, what theywere proposing still doesn't do anything to address
those underlying issues. Exactly exactly,it's minuscule if you would have divided up
(13:43):
that money. And we're not goingto rehash all the arguments, but if
you would have divided up all thatmoney, you know, it would have
been a minuscule amount. It wouldhave been less than it been. Let's
say on the top end, ifit was five hundred to seven hundred and
fifty thousand per district as they werepropos Each district has about five different wards.
If you would divide all of thatup, let's just say it's five
(14:05):
hundred thousand, that wud have beenabout one hundred thousand dollars plum ward.
You know, darf I can tellyou that there's no way possible that you're
gonna get people from Little Italy toEast ninety third to agree how to split
up one hundred thousand dollars on projects, because there's different priorities, that diversity
of neighborhoods, diversity of needs,so it was not it was not going
(14:26):
to be able to be implemented inan equitable and peasical way, and the
money would have been almost inconsequential.It'd been almost to almost one of those
sayings that just give you just enoughmoney to fail. And I think your
perspective was a little unique in thatregard because your ward is unique. You
(14:48):
have a ward that has areas ofwealth and areas of poverty in it,
so you see different things, andyou know that when competing interests to the
table, you know it's not gonnabe as pleasant and everybody holding hands as
people think it will, because theyall have different needs. Right, I
have seventeen. You know, there'sseventeen of us on council, and then
(15:11):
if you want to add the mayor, then there's eighteen elected officials at six
on one lake side. I cantell you right now, getting seventeen to
agree, even if you try toget to twelve to agree, or even
if you try to get nine toagree, which is what you need is
the threshold to get across. Andthen on top of that to make sure
that you hold the line, tomake sure that the mayor either comes around
(15:35):
or you know, or he workswith us on this building. Those kind
of collaboration, that coalitions and thatkind of agreement is a lot of work.
And it's not something to just geta bunch of people in the room
and say, you know, hey, what do you want to see you
nice in your neighborhood. That seemsnice, that seems like a great idea,
but it is a recipe for disaster. My friend. So we're talking
(16:00):
about Cleveland Council President Blaine Griffin,and as we you're ready to wind down
here, one thing I do wantto ask you, because I do think
it is an issue that needs tobe addressed. I have sympathy for the
people who believed that Issue thirty eightwould do what the proponent said it was
(16:22):
going to do. Now we bothbelieve it would not have done that,
But I sympathize with the people wholooked at this and said, hey,
we need this. Look, I'mfrom a poor section of the city,
so I get it. I understandthat. So from a policy perspective,
(16:47):
and again this kind of goes backto the middle class issue, the conversation
that I only see you having whatcan be done from a policy perspective to
make sure that everybody in the citygets to participate and feel the economic successes
(17:08):
that we have when when companies comein or or when we redevelop stadiums and
stuff like that. How do wemake sure that more people benefit from that.
Well, you know, Governor Bradthat you ask that, because that's
one of the reasons that we passthe Community Benefits coordinates. And the reason
that we pass that is because notjust the downtown projects. When you got
(17:32):
developments that's going on in the neighborhoodsand you got beautiful houses being put up,
even if it's you know, youknow, any kind of apartment complexes
or anything, and people build it. And sometimes the developers think, well,
the developer the development is the communitybenefit. No, no, no,
no, you got to offer thelong time residents that's been here sacrificing
(17:52):
something. Maybe put money in aland trust, maybe building some infrastructure,
maybe help with a public park,maybe you know, give access to broadband,
maybe you put in some kind ofcommunity art project. But what we've
done is we now have a biggerTILLI model that we are going to assess
every project before on the proactive side, before it happens, and that's big
(18:14):
or small. That's whether you're talkingabout a brown stadium or if you're talking
about a neighborhood project. So whenwe did the Community Benefit Agreement, it
wasn't just to get more you know, black folks, Hispanics and women and
Asians and others more jobs, eventhough that was part of it, it
was also to give the community abigger and better and broader voice and what
(18:36):
they would like to see whenever wedo development. That's why I say we
got to be better at articulating whatis the return on the investment whenever we
make these city taxpayer dollar investments.Well, and I think so too,
that there are things that are availableto people that people aren't aware of.
And because you know, I thinkthat like there we know that the conditions
(19:00):
are real, there are people whoare really suffering, and I think that
there's a disconnect between the people whoneed the help and the help that's out
there, the options, the opportunitiesthat are out there. It's such a
like the messaging I think from theother side was just so negative that there
(19:22):
was essentially if we don't do this, there's no hope, right, And
how that trust it was an indictmenton counsel. And let me say this,
Council people work their butt off.And the one thing that I thought
was totally agregious that the other sidewas doing is that they really wanted to
try to target counsel people to saytrust us, don't trust them. They're
(19:45):
the dark side, They're the peoplethat are not spending your money, right,
And I thought that was a verydisgagous argument. Is one thing to
promote up philosophy, it's another thingto try to promote yourself and your own
interests over were the people who wereduly elected right right? So no,
no, no, no, reallyprocess, No, that's good, that's
(20:10):
good. But so I think it'show do you what do you think counsel
can do to make sure that peopleare more aware of the things that they
can that they can do right now? And I'm not saying that there isn't
more work to be done. Ido. I'm a strong believer in what
(20:32):
you talk about when it comes torestoring the middle class like that has to
happen for a number of reasons.But what what can be done to make
sure that people know and participate inthe things that are available to them right
now this moment. You got tobe high touched and high tech. Okay.
(20:53):
You know the reason that a lotof these people do some of the
outreach that they do is because they'regood on Twitter. They're good on not
Twitter, what is an excellent Instagramand all these other things like that.
And I've always been concerned about themisinformation and the disinformation that those kind of
platforms can put out. But I'velearned that you got to battle on that
(21:15):
side. You got to keep messingout. I have a young man named
Darryl Torbert that works closely with meand is a master at that and has
been able to really help counsel upour game on helping to educate people and
correct the story whenever misinformation and disinformationis being put out there. So you
got to do hot tech, butyou also got to do hot touch.
Your best ability in this business isyour availability. You got to have people
(21:38):
to see you. People need tosee you show up. Leaders show up
part of Leadership Cleveland and I'm onthe board and I went through that class
with you know, the Leadership Cleanand Cleveland Leadership Center, and that's one
of the things they talk about ishow leaders show up. We got to
be able to be present. Wegot to go to those block clubs.
We got to be in those hotchurch basements. In the summer, we
got to be in those cold uhyou know, backyards, and in the
(22:02):
fall, we got to be outhere so that anywhere people are available,
we have to be able to articulatewhat we're doing and really, you know,
tell our story, because if youdon't tell your story, somebody would
tell it for you, right right, Man, you know this is ah.
I know you've you've been been througha lot these past couple months.
Man, I appreciate you don't knowto have I appreciate you stopping by.
(22:29):
Man. I do think we needto continue this conversation, especially economically.
We need to uh continue to makesure that we're doing things to have to
open doors for people to be ableto participate more in the process economically,
because folks who are folks who aremaking money and paying taxes and and and
(22:52):
owning a home in the city ofCleveland are less likely to be willing to
uh to listen to revolutionaries. Sothat's why I said, man, we
need people who are practical, peoplewho have skin in the game. If
your house and your neighborhood and yourinvestment and your livelihood is on the line.
Those are the people that I wantto come to the table and say,
hey, this is what we wantto see for our community. Right
(23:15):
absolutely, So thank you for takingsome time, man, Go get you
some rests. Man, I knowit's been a long few once and congratulations.
Probably people could probably hear it inmy voice man, and Darby R
I do honestly want to say this. First of all, thank you to
all the voters of Cleveland. Iknow this might have been a tough decision.
People want to see more out oftheir government, and we get it,
(23:37):
and we understand that as taking thesejobs, you have to have a
level of humility in order to reallyunderstand when people are really saying, hey,
we want our government to be anddo better. I also want to
say this, man, is thatthank you Darbo. One of the things
I like about your show is thatyou really take the time to really try
to help people understand different points ofview. And I think that that kind
(24:00):
of really middle of the line,let's get the fats out there really kind
of is what we need to kindof break this polarization, this extreme polarization
that we're seeing on all of thesedifferent issues, whether they're local, state,
national, international. You know,you really really have put a sober
voice to this. So thank youand I appreciate you, my friend.
(24:22):
I appreciate that, brother, andjust try to make sure that the people
know what's going on and we needto address these issues seriously and not always
have you know, some of thebombastic language that surrounds these and kind of
poisons poisons the well and distracts theconversation. So thank you, my friend,
and thank you for taking the time. Man, I appreciate it.
(24:45):
Thank you to all your listeners,thank you so much. One more time,
shout out to Cleveland City Council PresidentBlaine Griffin for coming on the show.
Really appreciated. We are out ofhere, see you next time.
Peace. This has been a presentationof the FCB podcast Network, where Real
(25:17):
Talk Lives. Visit us online atfcbpodcasts dot com.
This is the FCB Podcast Network.This is The l Laws Extra. Welcome
to the Outlaws Extra. This isDARVEYO to Kingpennmorrow. Don't forget too Like
(00:21):
us on Facebook at Facebook dot com, slash the Outlaws Radio, follow us
on Twitter and Instagram at the Outlawsor Radios. It's gonna be real quick.
We have a special episode once againwith Cleveland City Council President Blaine Griffin
talking about the results of the Issuethirty eight vote that we have talked about
numerous times on this show. Forthose of you who are unaware, Issue
(00:44):
thirty eight failed, which is theoutcome that I was rooting for and hoping
for. And so we're going totalk a little bit with Council President Griffin
about what to do next, whatcomes now moving forward. So stay tuned.
We are going to take a breaknow and go to the interview in
(01:07):
its entirety. You're listening to Theout Laws Extra. True Sir Pray,
welcome back, Welcome back, andnow is our interview with Cleveland City Council
President Griffin. All right, wehave a very special guest or with us
(01:30):
today back on the show, ClevelandCouncil President Blaine Griffin. I'm gonna say,
taken a little bit of a takinga little bit of a victory lap,
but there's more work to be done. Welcome back. How how you
doing, sir, How are youfeeling this morning. I'm doing great,
man, I'm doing great. Thanksfor asking, man. I know it
was a long day yesterday. Yeah, it was a long day. And
(01:53):
but you know, we're happy abouta hard part, you know, our
victory. And I really think thatI'm proud of my council. They really
fought for the citizens of the Cityof Cleveland, and we stuck together and
we built a great alliance with theresidents and organizers throughout the city of Cleveland,
as well as the labor unions.And I think we've built the momentum
(02:15):
and we've you know, started somethingin the City of Cleveland that hopefully we
can keep the momentum going. Yeah. For people who haven't seen, who
aren't aware, Issue thirty eight,which was the so called participatory budgeting initiative
failed in the City of Cleveland.I was personally glad to see that.
(02:38):
I mean, I've made no bonesabout the fact that I was opposed to
it. I've been opposed to itfrom the beginning publicly, what message do
you think and we'll talk about thefact that it was you know, it
was close later, but what messagedo you think the voter sent by rejecting
this proposal, that the voters aremore in tuned with government. Then people
(03:00):
may think, I think that somepeople have seen the flaws in the proposal.
I think that, you know,some people. The more that we
got a chance to educate people onthis, that we made people recognize that
they really had to take their timeand understand the issues, because we know
that there were like three populist issuesthat were going to be a yes.
(03:23):
So our entire conversation was to educateand persuade the voters to go our way.
And I think we did a greatjob of really articulating our position and
helping voters, which are very smartbecause you can't take advantage of Clevelander's helped
them understand how this would have beena catastrophic to their service delivery system,
(03:44):
right right, And I mean,obviously I believe that, I mean,
I agree with all of that.It's one of the reasons why I was
opposed to it, and people whofollowed me know that I, you know,
I don't often go all in onan issue or you know, make
it, make my views known publiclywhere I'm going to go on a certain
(04:08):
issue. But I thought this onewas important enough to h to address that
fully and publicly because it could havebeen catastrophic to the city had it passed.
Now, the fact is it wasa narrow victory, so that that
says that they were successful in convincingsome people. How do you reach out
(04:32):
to the people who voted for thisand bring them in. Well, what
it taught me is, you know, the lesson I learned from Fanny Lewis,
delay, Fanny Lewis, and alsomost recently Frank Jackson when he was
counseling Frank Jackson, is that wehave to spend a tremendous amount of time
educating people on how government works.That's number one. You know, how
(04:55):
council is structured, how our committeesare structured, our decisions are made,
the different parts of dollars that wehave, from the general fund to the
capital outlay, which is really donethrough restricted income tax dollars, which is
like one point nine percent of thebudget. Really helping people understand, you
know, the enterprise funds like thewater and the airport, and the reason
(05:18):
I'm mentioning all these things to you, even with council discretionary fund like CDBG
dollars and casino dollars, the reasonI'm mentioning this to you is because this
is a very you know, verycomplicated thread of funding streams from federal,
state, and local revenue that causesthis city to run. And I think
(05:41):
sometimes people put misinformation and they makepopulist messages, but the broader public doesn't
really understand how all of the dollarsreally work and what they are supposed to
be applied to. So we needto do a better job of really educating
our public, which I really wantto put out a call to the public,
even people like yourself. I thinkI would love to have more seminars
where we actually host how does thegovernment work for you? And how would
(06:05):
you like to see your government work, and being more inattentional with the you
know, the public on what theywould like to see. I also think
Darville, the biggest message that theywere trying to get across is this whole
stadiums over streets conversation. But whata lot of people don't realize is that
we fought hard as a community toget the Browns. Somebody made a decision,
(06:28):
you know, decades ago, ifnot more than that, to get
into the sports business as a majoreconomy and a major driver of our economy
in the city of Cleveland. Sothese stadium deals that people try to condemn,
they actually translate to the city servicesthat they're saying that they don't get
that. They translate to the streetsgetting paid. They translate to having more
(06:48):
police officers. They translate to tryingto make sure that you have your potholes
field and you know, that housetorn down. So what they don't realize
is these are you know, thatare going towards the capitalistic structure in order
for us to make sure that wehave the resources we need in order to
(07:09):
provide the city services. So wegot to do a bit of job of
showing people that they're getting a returnon their investment. We're talking with Cleveland
Council President Blank Griffin. I've alwaysfound the you know, the stadium,
the people over stadium's argument to bedisingenuous, partly because of what you said,
but also too I've seen, youknow, I've went behind the scenes
(07:30):
when you go to a Browns game, uh in particular, and you see
who who's working at the stadium,and the most of the people who are
working at the stadium look like usexactly. The ones that are doing the
concessions, the ones that are security, they're one. So it's not only
you know, the tax dollars youknow that the team brings in, but
(07:55):
there are people in our community whoare working there who were you know,
they have jobs from the stadiums andfrom the teams and stuff like that.
So I've always found that to bethat argument to be a little disingenuous.
You know. On the other hand, though, I do understand that there
(08:16):
are people who feel like they arenot full participants in the city's process,
in the city's decision making. Sowhat can be done to make people feel
like they are a bigger part ofthe process? Well, I mean,
and that's a good question. Howcan people feel a bigger part of the
(08:39):
process. One of the things thatwas frustrating through this whole conversation is,
first of all, there was alot of outside people and a lot of
outside money that was helping propel theYes side, And you know, there
were a lot of promises being madeas if you know, everybody was going
to get a chicken in every pot, and there was going to be grants
passed out. They were going tobe able to just you know, do
(09:01):
a bunch of things that it wasdisingenuous. You know. The reason that
I bring that up is because whatwe have to do is we have to
tell people the truth. We haveto start telling people how government is supposed
to work, and that you know, you got to put some skin in
the game. Like I said,a lot of the frustration that we had
was that yet outside people and peoplequite frankly that were a part of this
(09:24):
team, that were giving this informationto people, and that's dangerous. So
we got to make sure one wearen't people with the information. But then
number two, you got to comeand put some skin in the game.
You can't sit back on your couchand not participate. One of the reasons,
let's face it, the reason thatthey tried to take advantage of this
is because they used one of ourdisabilities as a community is our lack of
(09:48):
voting. So the fact that wedidn't vote, this group of people with
radical ideas, you know, waswere able to come and try to infiltrate
that, and you know, that'sso we got to get our voting percentages
up. And then, Garbrielle,I told you this several times before.
We have to do a better jobof attracting, you know, the middle
(10:09):
class, middle income, middle classfolks coming back into our neighborhoods because they
have more at stake. A lotof people behind this. They don't have
homes that they bought their children,don't go to the schools, they don't
live in the communities that you knowthey need safety in. They're basically renters
in a lot of cases where peoplethat don't have steak in the game.
(10:30):
So we got to make sure thatthe people that really have steak in the
game come to the table too,because they're going to be the ones that's
going to be more practical about whatthey'd like to see in their community as
opposed to less ideological. It's funnyyou said that too, because I was
actually just getting ready to bring thatup, because I do find it interesting
that you have people who are makingthis argument and they're attacking you because basically
(10:54):
you were the face of the opposition, but as far as what people are
actually saying that they need, you'reone of the only people in city leadership
that I ever hear talking about it. And I've told you, I've told
you that publicly and privately. Youknow, the middle class restoring the middle
(11:15):
class conversation is an important conversation tohave in this city, and you seem
to be the only one willing tohave it because that ultimately, that's really
what is needed. You have peoplewho came in from the outside who were
playing on the real, legitimate issuesthat parts of our community still have.
(11:37):
There are issues in our community.There are times where development dollars and all
these other things don't get to theareas that they need to as quickly as
they as they could and should.We should be growing economically and making sure
that more people can participate in it. But it's interesting to me that they
(11:58):
hold you up as some roadblock whenyou, in my view, you're the
only one willing to have that conversationexactly. And you know, first of
all, people are always going totry to define, you know, someone
who's in opposition. The biggest issueis I'm in their way. You know,
they want they live their a microwavegeneration that feel like they just want
(12:18):
to press the butt that make change. But often tell people that change is
a process, not an event.Okay, so just because you arrived and
you got great ideas, you know, you got to recognize that sometimes there's
been guardrails put in place in orderto protect our democracy. And it's not
about me, which they try toclaim sometime upholding a status quo or anything
(12:39):
else like that. It's about mesometimes being the adult in the room and
telling some people that you know what, hey, guys, you know may
not be able to have all ofthat sugar because we need to actually have
something healthy in our diet. Andit's hard to have that conversation because you're
not talking about all of the sweetstuff that everybody want to see in all
of you know, nice feel goodstuff. Sometimes you got to have a
(13:01):
hard conversation with people and say whatwe can afford and what we can't afford,
what are our priorities and what arenot are our priorities? And when
you have to be that adult inthe room, you oftentimes are the person
that are seeing as the obstructionists ortrying to uphold the status quote. Know,
what I'm trying to do is protectpeople who have sacrificed for years to
(13:22):
make this a great city and I'llbe damned if I let people come to
the table and try to undermine it. All that hard work, with all
the posts that we do every daywell, and part of the issue too
is that you know, what theywere proposing still doesn't do anything to address
those underlying issues. Exactly exactly,it's minuscule if you would have divided up
(13:43):
that money. And we're not goingto rehash all the arguments, but if
you would have divided up all thatmoney, you know, it would have
been a minuscule amount. It wouldhave been less than it been. Let's
say on the top end, ifit was five hundred to seven hundred and
fifty thousand per district as they werepropos Each district has about five different wards.
If you would divide all of thatup, let's just say it's five
(14:05):
hundred thousand, that wud have beenabout one hundred thousand dollars plum ward.
You know, darf I can tellyou that there's no way possible that you're
gonna get people from Little Italy toEast ninety third to agree how to split
up one hundred thousand dollars on projects, because there's different priorities, that diversity
of neighborhoods, diversity of needs,so it was not it was not going
(14:26):
to be able to be implemented inan equitable and peasical way, and the
money would have been almost inconsequential.It'd been almost to almost one of those
sayings that just give you just enoughmoney to fail. And I think your
perspective was a little unique in thatregard because your ward is unique. You
(14:48):
have a ward that has areas ofwealth and areas of poverty in it,
so you see different things, andyou know that when competing interests to the
table, you know it's not gonnabe as pleasant and everybody holding hands as
people think it will, because theyall have different needs. Right, I
have seventeen. You know, there'sseventeen of us on council, and then
(15:11):
if you want to add the mayor, then there's eighteen elected officials at six
on one lake side. I cantell you right now, getting seventeen to
agree, even if you try toget to twelve to agree, or even
if you try to get nine toagree, which is what you need is
the threshold to get across. Andthen on top of that to make sure
that you hold the line, tomake sure that the mayor either comes around
(15:35):
or you know, or he workswith us on this building. Those kind
of collaboration, that coalitions and thatkind of agreement is a lot of work.
And it's not something to just geta bunch of people in the room
and say, you know, hey, what do you want to see you
nice in your neighborhood. That seemsnice, that seems like a great idea,
but it is a recipe for disaster. My friend. So we're talking
(16:00):
about Cleveland Council President Blaine Griffin,and as we you're ready to wind down
here, one thing I do wantto ask you, because I do think
it is an issue that needs tobe addressed. I have sympathy for the
people who believed that Issue thirty eightwould do what the proponent said it was
(16:22):
going to do. Now we bothbelieve it would not have done that,
But I sympathize with the people wholooked at this and said, hey,
we need this. Look, I'mfrom a poor section of the city,
so I get it. I understandthat. So from a policy perspective,
(16:47):
and again this kind of goes backto the middle class issue, the conversation
that I only see you having whatcan be done from a policy perspective to
make sure that everybody in the citygets to participate and feel the economic successes
(17:08):
that we have when when companies comein or or when we redevelop stadiums and
stuff like that. How do wemake sure that more people benefit from that.
Well, you know, Governor Bradthat you ask that, because that's
one of the reasons that we passthe Community Benefits coordinates. And the reason
that we pass that is because notjust the downtown projects. When you got
(17:32):
developments that's going on in the neighborhoodsand you got beautiful houses being put up,
even if it's you know, youknow, any kind of apartment complexes
or anything, and people build it. And sometimes the developers think, well,
the developer the development is the communitybenefit. No, no, no,
no, you got to offer thelong time residents that's been here sacrificing
(17:52):
something. Maybe put money in aland trust, maybe building some infrastructure,
maybe help with a public park,maybe you know, give access to broadband,
maybe you put in some kind ofcommunity art project. But what we've
done is we now have a biggerTILLI model that we are going to assess
every project before on the proactive side, before it happens, and that's big
(18:14):
or small. That's whether you're talkingabout a brown stadium or if you're talking
about a neighborhood project. So whenwe did the Community Benefit Agreement, it
wasn't just to get more you know, black folks, Hispanics and women and
Asians and others more jobs, eventhough that was part of it, it
was also to give the community abigger and better and broader voice and what
(18:36):
they would like to see whenever wedo development. That's why I say we
got to be better at articulating whatis the return on the investment whenever we
make these city taxpayer dollar investments.Well, and I think so too,
that there are things that are availableto people that people aren't aware of.
And because you know, I thinkthat like there we know that the conditions
(19:00):
are real, there are people whoare really suffering, and I think that
there's a disconnect between the people whoneed the help and the help that's out
there, the options, the opportunitiesthat are out there. It's such a
like the messaging I think from theother side was just so negative that there
(19:22):
was essentially if we don't do this, there's no hope, right, And
how that trust it was an indictmenton counsel. And let me say this,
Council people work their butt off.And the one thing that I thought
was totally agregious that the other sidewas doing is that they really wanted to
try to target counsel people to saytrust us, don't trust them. They're
(19:45):
the dark side, They're the peoplethat are not spending your money, right,
And I thought that was a verydisgagous argument. Is one thing to
promote up philosophy, it's another thingto try to promote yourself and your own
interests over were the people who wereduly elected right right? So no,
no, no, no, reallyprocess, No, that's good, that's
(20:10):
good. But so I think it'show do you what do you think counsel
can do to make sure that peopleare more aware of the things that they
can that they can do right now? And I'm not saying that there isn't
more work to be done. Ido. I'm a strong believer in what
(20:32):
you talk about when it comes torestoring the middle class like that has to
happen for a number of reasons.But what what can be done to make
sure that people know and participate inthe things that are available to them right
now this moment. You got tobe high touched and high tech. Okay.
(20:53):
You know the reason that a lotof these people do some of the
outreach that they do is because they'regood on Twitter. They're good on not
Twitter, what is an excellent Instagramand all these other things like that.
And I've always been concerned about themisinformation and the disinformation that those kind of
platforms can put out. But I'velearned that you got to battle on that
(21:15):
side. You got to keep messingout. I have a young man named
Darryl Torbert that works closely with meand is a master at that and has
been able to really help counsel upour game on helping to educate people and
correct the story whenever misinformation and disinformationis being put out there. So you
got to do hot tech, butyou also got to do hot touch.
Your best ability in this business isyour availability. You got to have people
(21:38):
to see you. People need tosee you show up. Leaders show up
part of Leadership Cleveland and I'm onthe board and I went through that class
with you know, the Leadership Cleanand Cleveland Leadership Center, and that's one
of the things they talk about ishow leaders show up. We got to
be able to be present. Wegot to go to those block clubs.
We got to be in those hotchurch basements. In the summer, we
got to be in those cold uhyou know, backyards, and in the
(22:02):
fall, we got to be outhere so that anywhere people are available,
we have to be able to articulatewhat we're doing and really, you know,
tell our story, because if youdon't tell your story, somebody would
tell it for you, right right, Man, you know this is ah.
I know you've you've been been througha lot these past couple months.
Man, I appreciate you don't knowto have I appreciate you stopping by.
(22:29):
Man. I do think we needto continue this conversation, especially economically.
We need to uh continue to makesure that we're doing things to have to
open doors for people to be ableto participate more in the process economically,
because folks who are folks who aremaking money and paying taxes and and and
(22:52):
owning a home in the city ofCleveland are less likely to be willing to
uh to listen to revolutionaries. Sothat's why I said, man, we
need people who are practical, peoplewho have skin in the game. If
your house and your neighborhood and yourinvestment and your livelihood is on the line.
Those are the people that I wantto come to the table and say,
hey, this is what we wantto see for our community. Right
(23:15):
absolutely, So thank you for takingsome time, man, Go get you
some rests. Man, I knowit's been a long few once and congratulations.
Probably people could probably hear it inmy voice man, and Darby R
I do honestly want to say this. First of all, thank you to
all the voters of Cleveland. Iknow this might have been a tough decision.
People want to see more out oftheir government, and we get it,
(23:37):
and we understand that as taking thesejobs, you have to have a
level of humility in order to reallyunderstand when people are really saying, hey,
we want our government to be anddo better. I also want to
say this, man, is thatthank you Darbo. One of the things
I like about your show is thatyou really take the time to really try
to help people understand different points ofview. And I think that that kind
(24:00):
of really middle of the line,let's get the fats out there really kind
of is what we need to kindof break this polarization, this extreme polarization
that we're seeing on all of thesedifferent issues, whether they're local, state,
national, international. You know,you really really have put a sober
voice to this. So thank youand I appreciate you, my friend.
(24:22):
I appreciate that, brother, andjust try to make sure that the people
know what's going on and we needto address these issues seriously and not always
have you know, some of thebombastic language that surrounds these and kind of
poisons poisons the well and distracts theconversation. So thank you, my friend,
and thank you for taking the time. Man, I appreciate it.
(24:45):
Thank you to all your listeners,thank you so much. One more time,
shout out to Cleveland City Council PresidentBlaine Griffin for coming on the show.
Really appreciated. We are out ofhere, see you next time.
Peace. This has been a presentationof the FCB podcast Network, where Real
(25:17):
Talk Lives. Visit us online atfcbpodcasts dot com.
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