Ep. 414 - Cleveland Council President Blaine Griffin talks redistricting, targeting allegations, the Browns and more

Cleveland City Council President Blaine Griffin joins the show to talk about redistricting, the controversy from some about the process, the future of the Browns stadium, his political future and more. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the FCB Podcast Network. Great job boot change
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Tune in the charge for the Outdoor, Tune in the
Charge for the Outlaw.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Welcome to a special edition of the Outlaws. This is
Darvey ooda Kingvinmorrow. Don't forget to like us on Facebook
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sure that you go to the brand new website, The
Outlawsradio dot com. That's the Outlawsradio dot com. We have

(00:51):
a special interview with Cleveland Council President Blaine Griffith. Uh.
For those of you who are fromamiliar with what's going
on around here, it's a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Actually.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
There's issues with redistricting and how those situations played out,
and there was allegations of council people being of a
council person in particular, being targeted all of that, and
he addresses that, he addresses those allegations. He also addresses.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
A whole host of other issues.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
Concerning not only that process, but also some other issues
that are in the headlines in our city. We touched
on possibly what could be next for the Browns. We
also talked about what his future may be. Stay tuned

(01:49):
to hear that as well. All right, we're gonna jump
into that interview right now. All right, we have a
very special guest on the show today. He's been on
this show before, Cleveland Council President Blaine Griffin.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Welcome back.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
How you doing, Sirry, I'm doing good. How you doing, Darth,
I'm doing all right, man. So there's a lot of
stuff going on man in the city, a lot of
stuff you've had to deal with. Obviously, the biggest one
right now has been the situation with redistrict things. So
let's jump right into that. Just kind of talk me
through where we're at. Saw you had a press conference

(02:27):
a few days ago. Just kind of talk me through
the process and the ultimate outcome.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
So every you know, ten years in two thousand and eight,
let me start there. You know, because of population laws,
Cleveland has continued to have to shrink its council. Cleveland
at one time had thirty three members, and it was
on a trajectory to have similar to Chicago fifty members. However,
when Cleveland started losing population in approximately in the nineteen seventies,

(02:57):
you know, we started seeing a precipitous client that line
in population, which means that we had less wards that
were needed. Well, in two thousand and eight, fast forward,
the council made a decision to put a charter amendment
on the ballot that actually focused on that actually focused

(03:18):
on tying the ward seats, the council seats to the
decinial census. The voters overwhelmingly passed it, which means that
every ten years, based on the decinial census, once it's certified,
we have to start to figure out a redistricting process,

(03:40):
which meant that because we fail under the three hundred
and seventy five thousand mark down to three hundred and
seventy two three hundred and seventy thousand people or so,
we had to change our ward structure to now decrease
by from seventeen to fifteen. So basically, we had to
find two seats that we were able to eliminate through

(04:03):
the redistricting processes. Most of the population took place on
the northeast and southeast side. Therefore, you know, those areas
were heavily impacted based on the census.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
And so everybody's ward was impacted, even yours correct.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Even mine. Everybody in town their ward was impacted. We
had to try to get an average of about twenty
four thousand, eight hundred people per ward. The lowest that
you can go is about twenty three thousand, eight hundred
or so, or the highest you can go is approximately
twenty five thousand and six twenty five thousand, six hundred

(04:46):
or something like that. So bottom line is you can
only go either five percent below that average number or
five percent above that average number. So everybody's ward had
to fall within those areas, which means that we had
to combine a couple of wards. We had to move
some lines around in order for people to pick up populations.

(05:07):
What we've experienced in this city is a migration to
prime neighborhoods and neighborhoods of choice and affluent neighborhoods, and
we've seen a disc we've seen an exodus of people
in some of the neighborhoods that have more challenges. So unfortunately,

(05:28):
we had to eliminate two seats, and we tried to
take many factors in play. We had to look at
the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act in
order to make sure that we had competitive districts for
African Americans and Hispanics. We really tried to, you know,
see what we could do to try to give the

(05:49):
women on council an opportunity nobody's guaranteed, but an opportunity
to compete for these seats. We tried not to pit
incompass against each other. However, I made it clear with
all my colleagues that these were not our seats. And
quite frankly, if you end up in a seat where
you have an incumbent, or you know there are two incumbents,

(06:09):
then by law nobody's allowed to run as an incumbent.
You have to run in the open seat. So a
lot of musical chairs took place. We looked in, you know,
certain things around development. We tried to keep natural boundaries
and neighborhoods whole. However, Cleveland is not shaped like a square,
rectangle or triangle. It is shaped in a very awkward

(06:31):
fashion with four or five protrusions that looked like fingers.
And we started drawing the map from the edges of
the city and worked our way into the inner part
of the city where much of the population decrease took place,
with the exception of downtown, which we know has been

(06:51):
growing significantly over the last ten to fifteen years.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
We're talking with Cleveland Council President Blak Griffin, and I
wanted to go back to something that you touched on
and kind of dig into it a little bit more.
You talked about concerns pertaining to the Civil Rights Act
and the Voting Rights Act. Cleveland is a very diverse city,
its majority minority. What was the balancing Act? How were

(07:19):
you all able to kind of address that. I know
that there was something that's been said about increasing the
Hispanic population and the Hispanic wars as well. You have
to protect the majority black wards. So just talk us
a little bit through that, through that process, because I
don't think people really consider, like they know the Civil
Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, but I don't

(07:39):
think they really consider that that has an impact on
how you draw the lines also.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Exactly, and that's a very good point. African American population
is approximately forty eight to forty nine percent in the
city of Cleveland, predominantly on the east side. As we
all know. Hints where a lot of the population laws
took place. So once again we had to make sure

(08:03):
that we at least took into consideration to make sure
that African Americans were in a position that they could
be competitive, which in a lot of those wars, they're
probably about sixty percent or more African American population. The
West side is a little bit different because the Hispanic
community is the fastest growing population. The Hispanic Roundtable put

(08:27):
in several community requests to say, hey, we should be
able to compete. Remember there is no such thing as
a guarantee, but we should be able to compete in
multiple wards. So we made sure that we have one
ward that is presently represented by Councilwoman Jazmine Santana, which
had to pick up some census tracks in order to

(08:47):
make sure that it was at about a forty percent
opportunity of forty percent Hispanic population to give her an
opportunity to compete. In addition to that, we actually have
the New War of eleven, which is the old Ward
thirteen and the old Ward fifteen that we combined that
gives us a significant Hispanic population, almost about twenty nine

(09:11):
percent in those locations. In addition to that, we have
approximately three other wards that represent approximately twenty two the
twenty three percent Hispanic population as well. So we had
to make sure that we had wars that were proportional
where they had opportunities, which means that there was significant
areas that you know, we had to pick up from

(09:35):
other wards in order to make sure that we had
a Hispanic population that was able to compete and have
an opportunity to compete. I didn't make those laws. I
didn't make those civil rights rules. I did not make
those voting rights rules. That's the law. And if we
did not follow the law, there could have been a
potential lawsuit for us not making wards proportional to give

(10:00):
Hispanic community a better opportunity. Hence Alabama. If you look
at the reapportionment process in Alabama, they almost got sued
because they had to make a competitive seat for a
second African American congressional seat due to population dynamics in Alabama.
So this is not just relegated to Cleveland. This was

(10:21):
not personal, This was not aimed at anyone. This was
a process where we took multiple factors into you know,
into consideration in order to come up with the maps
that we believe are fair and transparent.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
And for those of you who follow me on social media,
you know I've been very critical. I was very critical
of Alabama and how they handled how they stupidly handled
that process where they had to be threatened with a
lawsuit in order to present that district that Thomas mc
griffin was talking about. They had to do it legally.

(10:55):
The Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act are real things.
So obviously there's been a lot of controversy. You kind
of alluded to it. There's been a lot of controversy
about this process.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Just a quick question.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
I'm curious, based on this conversation for the people who
are critics of the process, were any of those concerns,
you know, concerning like the Voting.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Rights Act and Civil Rights Act?

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Did that come up in any of your conversations with
some of the people.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
No, between some people who have an affinity for their
council person, between some of the people that have an
affinity for their award and their community, between some of
the council members that just wanted what they wanted. And
I want to say that it wasn't just relegated to
one council member. It was several council members that really

(11:42):
jockeyed and really lobbied for several different reasons, nobody got
what they wanted. I now have to go all the
way over the Huff, and as much as I know
this city and love this city, I don't know a
lot of people there. So I considered an opportunity for
me to go into a new area, meet new people here,
their concerns, and hopefully integrate them into the new Ward six.

(12:06):
So nobody got what they wanted. And at the end
of the day, you had some council members that wanted
to keep the same maps that were done ten years ago,
which quite frankly, you know, laughably, were very very gerrymander.
I mean, you know, I will tell you that. As
I said in the press conference the other day, and

(12:27):
I'm not even sure if this is even a word,
but I had to unjerrymander the jerrymander. So I had
to put the genie back in the bottle. But because
so many council members were used to dealing with the
wards that crossed you know, weird boundaries, and one ward
went all the way from South Collinwood all the way
down the east fifty fifth in order to try to
help a council member. Another ward went all the way

(12:49):
from the Slavic Village area, and it circled through the
Industrial Valley, and it went over to the Tremont area.
All of those things were, you know, boundaries that were
done years ago, which quite frankly didn't fit the proportionality
of the city then. And what I tried to do
is try to eliminate that as much as possible and

(13:10):
work with the consultants that now the only ward that
really crosses the kyle Hoga River is the old Ward three,
which would be the new Ward seven, which is a
lot of the downtown area, which covers a lot of
the lakefront. So I kept that in tact so that
whoever is working on the lakefront and the NCA and
all of those things can have a very good opportunity

(13:33):
to be able to coordinate that all in one area.
So we really were intentional about how we tried to
give everybody assets, landmarks, development projects. We didn't want to
stick every one group or one person with all the poverty.
We didn't want to get one group and one person
with all of the assets and all of the wealth.

(13:54):
So everybody has a different ward and I want to
say this, Darvio, which is even more important to this
process because while some people make a big stink about
you know what the wardlines look like, council is a
body and we all have to work together and we
have to have a majority in a plurality whenever we

(14:15):
pass anything from a simple street repavement to a budget allocation,
to a major policy to major oversight that we're doing.
So we're not many mayors, which some people like to
consider themselves, so we have to work across boundaries and
lines anyway, And maybe this is an opportunity for us
to approach how we do the work of council in

(14:37):
a different way, because it is virtually impossible, especially with
the lack of resources, that we have to govern a
community like a mayor, because we're actually meant to be
a governing council and a body, not a collection of
individuals in an area.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
We're talking with Cleveland Council President Blaine Griffin, and you
said something.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Again that I really want to dig into some more.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
You talked about trying not to have put wards that
have all of the poverty or all of the resources.
Talk about why that was important, why that was important
to you to make sure that there was.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Some balance so that everybody can have the equal you know, balance,
you know, to be able to deal with the Dickenzie
model of a city that we have. You know, you
got to be able to serve the affluent communities, but
you also need to make sure that you have communities
that actually have you know, that actually have good proportionalities

(15:39):
so that people can see both sides of the spectrum,
you know. So that's what we really tried to do,
is really try to make sure that you know, every
council member, you know, realizes both sides of the coin,
the extreme poverty, the crushing poverty that this community and
city experiences, and also where we have some opportunities to
grow and develop. Once again, I believe everybody has that

(16:03):
opportunity in this map process, and I'm looking forward to
seeing how it turns out.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Yeah, and I would argue that it that having that
kind of balance, you can maybe give all the players
involved more of an incentive to have a rise and
tide lift all boats. Is that kind of what the
thought process was.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Absolutely, And like I said, everybody needs to share the
pain and everybody needs to share the glory.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Right So.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
During this process. There's been allegations that the process and
you specifically, we're targeting a specific member of council.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Can you address that?

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Not true? I actually worked with that member of council
and actually, to be honest with you, if anything, really
tried to work with that member of council to really
try to figure out a way for them to continue
working with this body. I don't have anything personal against
this council person. Quite frankly to the contrary, I've worked
with this council person, so this wasn't personal. What I

(17:12):
did is we got We started off by getting community feedback.
We had community meetings, which has never been done before.
We put up a website where people gave feedback. We
gave people tutorial lessons where they can actually look at
a day's redistricting map. The only caveat that I told
everybody is don't just draw your ward. You would totally

(17:32):
miss the operation if you tried to draw your ward
because putting this together is like putting a puzzle together,
and one piece can be a domino effect on the
other area. So you know, after I got that kind
of feedback and then looked at data and crunched data
and really work closely with the consultants. I kind of

(17:53):
stayed away from the process, and the only time that
I really leaned in and really got involved is when
the council member came to the table. Because after we
got all of the raw data, after we compared some
of the notes that we got in, the recommendations and
suggestions from people like the Hispanic Roundtable and the hundreds
of other people that gave feedback, we took it in consideration,

(18:15):
and then we brought council members in. Council members who
quite frankly know their community more than I do. Danny Kelly,
I always use him as an example, said Blame said,
you know, you may know this city well, but I
know this West Side and I know my community, and
here are a few things that we need to consider
that was important to him, like having a church. He
wanted to make sure that he had a Catholic parish,

(18:37):
and other kind of critical things that I, quite frankly,
as much as I know this city, there were areas
that I did not know. But then the council members
got the way in and you know, a couple of them,
one of their streeter to hear a development project that
they were, you know, currently working on I made it
clear from the outset that I was not a big

(18:58):
fan of cross river cross river jurisdictions because, quite frankly,
I think that they did that to try to make
a few things fit for council members in the past,
and I just don't think that was a good idea. However,
when the maps were first built and put together, I
tried to work with that council person in order to

(19:19):
stretch them across the industrial valley to where I thought
that they really wanted to have a base of people,
which was South Hills in Brooklyn Center. However, I believed
that they felt that they wanted more of that area,
so they decided to go public. And when they decided
to go public and make accusations that I somehow was

(19:39):
trying to target them and I somehow was trying to
divide up this area into you know, like a Thanksgiving turkey,
I guess what they said. I defended the process, and
I felt that our process was fair and I felt
that council members at the appropriate time were able to
give feedback, and that council person felt like they wanted
to go to public to try to implode the map

(20:03):
drawing process and create a level of disillusion, especially amongst
their ward. But I got a message to their award.
Slavic Village has never been one large community drawn together.
I looked at old maps, Darvy, and you could look
at our website because I really spent a lot of
time before and after we made the announcement last week

(20:25):
of the maps, and I could tell you former Councilman
Joe Simperman, who lived in Treamont and then in Ohio
City area, used to stretch all the way to the
industrial Valley to have the Forest City neighborhood that this
council person is talking about. So this is nothing new.
This goes back to the late nineties, early two thousands,
and any iteration of maps that I've looked at throughout

(20:48):
history in the city of Cleveland, it has not been
the shapes. And you know thirty seven neighborhoods that we
currently have that were all drawn into one. Our population
migration and decline has not made every neighborhood equal in
order to draw maps according to the statistical planning areas,
which we have thirty seven of in the entire city.

(21:10):
So just by nature of that alone, you had you know,
thirty seven neighborhoods that you had to in sub neighborhoods
that some people will call that you had to fit
into fifteen wards. And let me say this, nobody was
as irate when they cut up the east side and
moved some of the wards and the things on the
east side like they did. I will tell you that

(21:30):
I used to go in the old map from Little
to Italy all the way down the east sixty fifth
and it was untenable to try to think that you
can manage all of that, you know, with the way
that it was put together. And at the end of
the day, I had eight community development corporations that I
had to work with in order to get things done

(21:51):
in Ward six. So nobody cried tears for Ward six.
When former councilwoman Mammi Mitchell and myself had to deal
with a huge territory. Nobody said anything when Kevin conwill
you know, got you know, moved around significantly, So you know,
there was you know, if people look at the history

(22:11):
of these things, they'll see how certain people try to
actually were the ones who really tried to draw the
map that they wanted, and I tried to deal with
the big picture.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
More with Cleveland City Council President Black Griffin. When we
come back here only all lost, real talk, real conversations.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
We got the heat. Yeah, this is the youll lost
radio show.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Welcome back.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
Let's jump right back into our interview with Cleveland Council
President Black Griffin. So, how difficult Obviously this is already
a difficult process. But how much does that add to
the difficulty when something like that happens and it ends
up going in the public and you end up having
negotiations through the media. How much more difficult does it
make the process when that ends?

Speaker 1 (23:04):
But first of all, in this business, you should never
negotiate in public. You should always have conversations, and you
should always have those kind of especially when you're building something.
You should you know, you build trust by working with
your colleagues. You don't build trust by going right out
to the community and the media and creating a critical

(23:28):
nature because you know, people already have trust issues with systems.
So to try to, you know, drop the word gerrymander.
It's almost like like I tell people oftentimes DARVYO I
can say, or you can say, let me put me
on this spot. You can say, Blaine Griffin's are racist.
I will tell you at the end of the day,
even though you know me and other people know me

(23:49):
and can say that this guy is the farthest thing
from a racist, But you know what, you planted the seed,
so you planned a seed of doubt. You planted a
seed of you know, miss information and disinformation that quite frankly,
was unfortunate because it created a cavalcade of complaints and
messages that we've had to deal with since that took place,

(24:12):
that people were making that were just completely untrue. And
at the end of the day, like I said, everybody
had to sacrifice. Myself, me and councilwoman Grade we split
buck Eye, know down the middle. So it's not like
that they're the only neighborhoods that have you know, you know,
communities and neighborhoods that you had to move one block

(24:34):
over or split a block down the middle. That's asinine.
And at the end of the day, you know, I
hope that venues like this, where people are able to
tell the truth and talk about how the process took
place and how the sausage was really made, will will
go a long way, and helping people understand how this
Council was really transparent and above board and how we

(24:55):
put maps in place.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
We're talking with Cleveland Council President Blaine Griffin.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
And also one thing that has kind of come up
during this whole process is you know this idea that
maybe this should go to an outside group or an
outside body to do this and in full transparency. I'll
just just be honest and say, I think that's a
terrible idea. We need to stop giving more power to

(25:20):
unelected bureaucrats. But where do you stand on the idea
of taking the whole process and giving it to some.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Outside body or outside commission?

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Pretty much the same. I will tell you that you
know the question that I always ask you. I mean,
I always try to listen and always want to see
new ideas and what people are bringing to the table.
If you're just trying to you know, you know, this
is one of those things I forget how to say
and goes. But you know, a problem, a problem is
a solution and search for a problem. You know, it's uh,

(25:53):
it's unfortunate because what I always question is what makes
these independent, beer democratic bodies more credible than us. I
happen to live in a neighborhood. I'm available. I have
done nothing to say that I'm doing anything. You know
that is not credible. However, just putting out the allegation

(26:17):
like somehow politician is a bad word and we can't
trust those politicians with our maps. Well, you're going to
be just as political, You're gonna be just as biased,
you're gonna be just as you know, as as vocal.
And I will tell you this, Darvo, there's no way
in hell, no way possible that a thousand people. Let

(26:38):
me make it even better, that if we're really being fair,
no way in hell that three hundred and seventy two thousand,
six hundred and seventy four people can get in the
room and draw a map. So who makes this fifteen
seventeen twenty one member body that's going to draw maps,
and what makes them less political than the body that's
in place already that put forth what we believe is

(27:01):
a good process in a fair map. At the end
of the day, once again, the consultants did most of
the work. The only time that I really weighed in
is when I had to call balls and strengths and
referee between my colleagues.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, I mean, I just think the idea that an
outside commission wouldn't be political or it is just laughable,
and you end up losing more. The voters lose more
because you can't vote those people out if they do
something that you don't like.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
So I totally agree.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
So there is one thing, though, that one concern that
has come up that I do think is something worth
looking at. Is the idea that the body could, potentially
God forbid, drop even more in the next census. Is
there any thought to going to the voters and maybe
trying to cap it at no less than fifteen? Is

(27:51):
there any thought to that.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
There was people wanted to do that this year. However,
in the polling and other information that I've seen, it
wasn't why for us to do it this year. You know,
I believe that at some point in time we need
to cap it because this whole notion that you know,
we need to keep shrinking and shrinking and shrinking doesn't work.

(28:14):
I will tell you that the closest interaction that anybody
has with government is with their council person. You may
not see your congress person, your mayor, your governor, none
of these people at you know where you can interact
with them, but you could rest assured that they know
how to catch up and find their counsel person. They
see their council person at the local store, so they're

(28:36):
able to address their grievances and petition their government in
a special way when they have council members. So, if anything,
I think we need more representation and not less representation.
So we'll look at all of those things, but I
will tell you that we might need to look at,
you know, other reforms that we look at with counsel
in order to make sure that we're the most effective
body as possible.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, and I want to dig into that a little
bit more conversation on social media with one of one
of your members, councrom with Chris Harrison.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
We were talking about this, and.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
You know, I said, the idea of tying council representation
to population was something that I used to be in
favor of, but when you look at it now and
you see the delicate balancing act that that cause, especially
with all of the different groups in the city because
the city is very diverse and all the groups that

(29:29):
still need to be represented.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Talk a little bit about like what the role.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Of the council is in that representation because I think
sometimes people may not fully understand your job and what
it is you.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Do outside of the legislating part.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
Talk a little bit about why that's why that's important
because I know for me it is like seeing this
process and not only just this year, but even years
you know leading up to this has really even changed
the way that I think about this problem.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Well, let me say this, there is no job descriptions
for counsel. You got to be able to come in
and be able to multitasks, and you got to be
able to do multiple things. But if I was to
boil it down to a few things, I will tell
you that Council's job is to one set the budget
number two, provide oversight for departments to make sure that

(30:21):
the tax payer dollars are being utilized in a way
that are efficient and getting the services and quality of
life that they're looking for. And then to be creative
and put together innovative policy and policy initiatives. Those are
the things we really are focused on as a council. However,
let's be honest, probably the largest part of our job

(30:44):
is really being that of a of an our budsman.
How we advocate and make sure that people get the
services that they're looking for. You know that people aren't
just looked at as a number that pops up, you
know on the screen, that people actually feel like they
have some way to petition and their government for redress.
So at the end of the day, we represent the

(31:07):
voice of people that want to address their government, and
that's what we do right now. For example, big issue,
we had a waterman break in Little Italy and people
want to see trucks and sweep street sweepers and hoses
and other things in order to really try to you know,

(31:27):
get all this mud that was caked up when the
water main break took place a week or so ago.
You know, I'm the one advocating for that. I'm the
one making sure that that service is delivered. And then
if there is a breakdown, I get a chance to
address it in the committee to see if they need
more resources, if they need more oversight to come into
us more regular basis, or if we need to pass

(31:50):
other type of laws in order to give them the
technical ability in order to address some of these things
that are out there. That's how you tie the macro
to the micro. We have to be able to translate
the boardroom and the streets and be able to go
vice versa from the streets to the boardroom and make
sure that the boardroom understand what the streets need and
make sure that the streets understand how the boardroom is

(32:14):
contributing to the greater good of Cleveland, especially when we
do some of these deals to make sure that the
community in the city is getting a good return on
your investment.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
Yeah, and also, you know, one thing that's very important
is constituent services.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
That's something that a lot of you are very involved in.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
I know that there's some people who think you that
you all care about constituent services too much, but.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Talk a little bit about why that's important.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Well, you call it, you call it constituent services. I'm saying,
I'm buzzman. I'm telling my age. It's the old word.
But basically what you just said, constituent services. We get
more calls of people that are talking about that noisy
house down the street, the potholes that are down the way,
and once again they feel familiar and comfortable reaching out

(33:03):
and talking to their council person to try to get
those things addressed. So I will tell you that every
council person you know, some council people ironically don't want
to do those constituent services and kind of early on
in their tenure, you know, wrote papers and other things
about how you know it's hard to do the job

(33:23):
because I can't do policy because you got to do
constituent services. Well, that's the job. And I know that
a lot of people don't like that part of it
because they'd rather sit in the room and write policy
and have you know, a lot of debates. But I
would tell you any legislative body, even if you look
at Congress, there's some level of constituency services and interface
that you have to have in the public. I will

(33:46):
tell you that that's the proudest part of this job
is to be able to address and solve some of
the most vexingan complex issues that people bring to you,
which is done through constituency services, listening to people walk
in your neighborhood, hearing what the concerns of the community
are and being able to be a voice to speak
to those And even though I call it budsman, you

(34:08):
made it more clear and more playing. Constituency services are
a huge role of council people. That is inevitable, and
you can't get.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Out of We're talking with Cleveland Council President Blaine Griffin.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
We have a few minutes left and I want to
want to go real quick.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
And this is still kind of part of this because
obviously one of the issues, one of the reasons why
we had to lose two members of council is because
of the continued population decline.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
And I know that from our.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Previous conversations, both on air and off, that one of
the things that you care about is trying to rebuild
and re establish the middle class in the city of Cleveland.
Talk a little bit about in particular, I've seen something
that you guys have been starting to do, the whole
modular homes thing, which I think is absolutely brilliant. Talk

(34:58):
a little bit about some of the efforts that you
all are trying to address to increase our population so
that we don't have to continue to go through So.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
There was a great paper that was done by a
guy named Richie Paparian a few years ago, and it
talked about how the job creation was being done on
the east side. However, the affordable housing options were not
available on the east side, whereas on the west side
there was an abundance of affordable and market rate housing. However,

(35:32):
the job market was mainly on the East side, so
that tied us right there, especially along the corridor of
East ninety third one hundred and fifth in Woodhill, where
we've made a tremendous effort to try to provide affordable
housing options, several different type of housing options, where we've
looked at some single family houses where we can you know,

(35:55):
bring people into the community that are like some of
those folks that you don't always recognize in these hospitals
like Cleveland Clinic, which is the largest employer your environmental specialists,
which is a fancy word for janitor while we're interchanging words,
and those kind of things, nurses and those type of
folks that are not the doctors that are getting paid

(36:17):
the high end dollars, but are just working families that
are middle class families that want a good quality education,
want to live close to their job, want to walk
or you know, ride their bike to work. All of
those things are important, take public transit to work. So
really to try to bring the middle class and bring
you know, affordable housing options to pair them with the

(36:38):
job growth which is happening in the ads and meds
institutions that are in the university circle area has been
a priority of mind. How do we, you know, go
to these universities and colleges and really try to do
what we can to you know, retain the talent that
a lot of those colleges and universities and institutions are
producing and convince them to stay right here in these neighborhoods.

(37:02):
That's what my number one priority has been since day one,
and we're getting closer every day. You know. I will
tell you that there is no shortage of rooftops that
we've built in the Ward six area. I have a
tendency to believe that our population numbers in the central
area like Ward six, Ward five, and Ward seven currently

(37:26):
in the current configuration which is like Central Fairfax, Buckeye Huff,
all of those neighborhoods, Saint Clair Superior. I have a
sneaky suspicion that they're going to boom over the next
five or so years with some of the seeds that
we plan it in order to really try to turn
the trajectory around in those areas takes a lot of work,
takes a lot of being able to multitask and look

(37:49):
at various different strategies and funding streams to make it happen.
But that's why you need council people who are able
to navigate those multiple systems in order to attract the
talent and have the end goal that we need, which
is a strong, vibrant middle class, which I would tell
you that why I always say Cleveland is a Dickenzie
model of a city where we're the best of times

(38:11):
and worse times is because people usually migrate to affluent
neighborhoods O How City, Tremont, Downtown, Little Italy, those kind
of places, University Circle, Glenville, and then they usually have
a mass exodus from some of the other areas like
Mount Pleasant, Buckeye and you know, some of the Broadway
area as well as some of the areas on the

(38:32):
West Side that we see in a tremendous amount of
migration from as well. So really, how we could find
that good, strong quality middle class I believe will have
a ripple effect on crime, It will have better health outcomes,
it will have better economic mobility and wealth creation, will
have better issues around our criminal justice system. I will

(38:55):
tell you a lot of these folks that move out
to some of the suburban communities are starting to have
buyers remorse and wish they would have just stayed in
the city of Cleveland. Because sometimes when you're trying to
run away from a problem, you run right there smack
into another one.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, we're seeing that in our county, in
our region.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Right now.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Now, this is your this is your first, this is
your first redistricting process, right this is the first time
you went through this.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yes, the first time that I've gone through this, and
unfortunately I've had to be the one that shepherd us
through this one, which is a thankless job, to say
the least.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
Well, that kind of goes to my next question, what
what is What do you think is the biggest thing
that you discovered or learned through this process that maybe
you didn't know going into it.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Oh, well, that's a good question. Dark I would have
to say that the thing that I've learned more is
about the intimacy that people have with their neighborhoods. I
will tell you that people really love of their neighborhoods.
East and West. People are very fond of their enclaves
and their communities. And I know some people will call

(40:08):
it selfish, but I think it's a good thing to
have that kind of community pride. I'm looking at a
glass have full answer on this one, because if nothing else,
I've seen the pride and the love that people have
for their communities. I've seen the support that they have
for several of their council people and and really really
lean in on, you know, trying to make sure that

(40:29):
they're supportive of their council person. So it taught me
about what the spirit of Cleveland, you know, is, and
it really exists, and how people really feel about these neighborhoods.
It also taught me where we have some opportunities, We
have some opportunities for growth, as you just mentioned in
some of the most red line historically red lined area

(40:51):
throughout our city, which means that we need to really
be very cognizant of how we bring in those organizations
and groups and not create islands of poverty, but where
we can actually create mixed neighborhoods, not just mixed racially
or not just diverse neighborhoods racially, but economic diversity, you know,

(41:15):
not just having you know, wide wide swaps where you know,
seventy percent of the households are headed by single female
heads of households, But how we bring back families. How
do we make sure that we you know, center some
of our assets like Shaker Square and you know, the
Hough community, looking at what's going on at the Cleveland

(41:37):
Foundation and other places like that, and really try to
make sure that we help them to leverage housing opportunities
and quality of life opportunities and work opportunities in those areas.
I tell people, we got to focus more on triple
bottom line, especially like when you mentioned the modular housing.
We're addressing and environmental need because we're trying to get

(42:00):
people homes. We're addressing a social need because we're trying
to you know, deal with you know, getting people off
of the street and into stable housing. We're dealing with
the economics because we're creating wealth. We know that the
best pathway to wealth creation is home ownership. You know,
we're trying to do that triple bottom line where we

(42:22):
have that impact that we're not just trying to address
one thing or the other and leave the other deficient,
but how we try to address things holistically in the
city of Cleveland. So it's taught me a lot to
go through this exercise and at the end, of the day.
I will tell you that I'm a better person for it.
I wish that I would have had more colleagues and
more community members that leaned in on this as opposed

(42:45):
to just lining up and making insinuations, accusations and allegations,
but really trying to roll up their sleeve and learn
about the every nook and cranny of this city. I
can tell you that. And I don't want to compare
myself to any other politician, but I can tell you
that I will probably rival any other politician in understanding
the intricacies of these neighborhoods in these communities by going

(43:08):
through this process.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
The conclusion of our interview with Cleveland Console President Blaine
Griffin is up next tier on the Outlaws. Sir, welcome
back and listening to the Outlaws. Make sure that you
subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart, or

(43:32):
wherever you get your podcasts. And if you listen to
this show on Apple, please make sure you leave us
a five star review and a comment is very important
for the algorithm and for those of you who have
already done so. Thank you oh so very much. And
now to the conclusion of our interview. With Cleveland Council
President Blaine Griffin. We're talking with Cleveland Console President Blaine Griffin,
and as we get ready to wind down here, there's

(43:54):
two questions that I have to ask you. I gotta
ask you, brother. I wouldn't be doing my job if.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
I didn't ask you these next two questions. First of all,
what's up with the Browns.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Well, you know, we keep our we keep the lines
of communications open. I have met with the HASM Sports
Group and the family, you know, just to make sure
that we keep the level lines of communication open. They're
really focused on trying to go to Brook Park, and myself,
the county exec the mayor, as well as the council

(44:28):
president have all made it publicly known that we believe
that it needs to be in the central business district.
Once again, I always believe that any politicians should always
keep its eyes and ears their eyes and ears open
in order to make sure that we keep the lines
of communication open. Because if they are successful, which the
county executives said that he's not able to do it

(44:50):
from the county level, but they are successful in getting
the governor to commit to giving the six hundred million,
then we got some things we got to figure out
with the present stadium and other things. So I think
it's always good to have the lines of communication open. However,
I remain resolute that it should be in the Central
Business District. I believe we made too many big bets

(45:12):
with the convention centers, with the Global Health Center, with
the infrastructure that we put in place, the investments that
so many of the small business and small business owners
and restaurants have made in order to make downtown vibrant.
I think it would be a huge blow to the
psyche as well as the economic you know, vitality, vitility

(45:34):
of the city of Cleveland if it moves out the
Brook Park, where I believe it'll become a self licking
ice cream cone, you know, where it'd be just basically
the city or the county won't see any money. It'll
be all basically be in centives that primarily would benefit
the developer and the owner. So, you know, I remain

(45:55):
stand fast that it should be in the Central Business District.
But it's not personal with me. I still belie believe that,
you know, the haslms do have a hard decision to make,
and they want a legacy project, and I'm going to
try to help convince them and continue to try to
convince them to stay in the central business district. But
at the end of the day, you know, if they
spent their own money or they're able to get other

(46:16):
money outside of the city, who am I to be
able to stop them? Might to be able to have
enough of a relationship with them to make sure that
they understand the years of investment and sacrifice that this
community has made in order to prop up that team.
And I think I've imposed that upon them. But once again,
the conversation and the struggle continues. Right now, there is

(46:37):
no resolution, and we're going to continue to have these conversations.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
How's the relationship between the city and brook Park? Is
there any thought of trying to work something out, do
something together.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
I know that I've made some overtures about you know,
these kind of things are the reasons why we've had
no poaching agreements and other things in the past, so
that we don't pit city against city. I made some
overtures of about you know, land swaps and other things
it's been done in the past when we had to
deal with IX Center and other things. May be a
little difficult, but if it comes down to that, then

(47:09):
that's a discussion that we'll have. But right now, I
believe that that is a far off plan D or E.
Right now I'm still stuck at A or B, so
I haven't even moved to C, B or E yet.
But you know, any good politician always wants to, you know,
think about you know, what is the plan A, B, C,

(47:30):
D and E. So yes, those conversations are taking place.
I will tell you that some of the business owners
are starting to get a little bit more vocal and
you know, starting to help everybody's shape and understand how
they will be impacted if this takes I anticipate that
it would take downtown a good fifteen years to reset itself,

(47:52):
which I think would be devastating not just to Cleveland,
but to the entire region. And others don't believe that.
And I know that people have all these economic studies
out there. Well, I'm from the hood. I just use
my common sense, and my common sense tells me that
we will see you know, what are those those cobble
with those cobwebs up and down the street? Uh, you know,

(48:15):
like old Western movie on downtown. If this happens, and
I'm resolute or not allowing that to happen until it
absolutely has to, all.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
Right, And of course I have to ask you, is
there any news on the future, what the future holds
for Black Griffin?

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Well, right now, I just wanted to get through the
redistricting process. I will tell you that people have asked me,
Am I running for mayor. I don't know yet. People
have asked me, am I going to run again for council.
I don't know yet. People asking me, am I running
again for county council president. I don't know yet. People
asking me, am I looking at state seats? I don't
know yet. I usually use this time of year to

(48:53):
reflect on Black Griffin. I look at myself in the
mirror and I say, am I still effective? Am I
still a person that has that firing my belly to
be able to do the things that are needed and
make this city run. I ask a lot of questions
to people in the public. I try to go to
the local watering holes and restaurants just to try to
hear what people are thinking and if they're looking for

(49:15):
a change and what kind of issues are important for
them right now. Safety is paramount people as much as
a lot of people are trying to reinforce that you know,
safety is paramount. I would tell you that people still
feel like it's unhinged in a lot of places, especially
in certain poverty stricken areas of Cleveland. Last, but not least,

(49:35):
I look and see where I can best serve and
I'm trying. I know I have my trusted ally, Darryl Torbin,
on the line with me. I am trying hard to
sign off for about two weeks so that I can
really go through those exercises and be able to come
out in the beginning of January and say where my
head is at and what I plan on doing. And

(49:57):
I think every politician should examine themselves that way in
order to make sure that they're providing the best service
to the constituents that they can.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
All Right, Well, when you make that decision one way
or the other, I hope you pay us another.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Visit, you'll be one of the first to know. Darvyoe,
I will tell you that I love serving the city.
I do believe that I can should and you know
we'll play a bigger, better Boulder role in its future.
Where and how that looks is debatable, and at the
right time, I plan on getting with a good group
of trusted advisors that can help me think through this

(50:32):
and help me make the best decision, not just for
Blaine Griffin. A lot of times people say what's best
for me. I want what's best for the city. I
want what's best for the public. And if I believe,
you know, it's nothing personal against the present mayor or
the present leadership. If I believe that I'm the best
player on the field, then I'm gonna compete. It's like
it's like a professional athlete. I'm an ex athlete, but

(50:55):
you know, the best team should always be on the field,
and if I feel like I'm the best player that
needs to be on the field, then I'm going to compete.
But if the public and myself are convinced that, you know,
I can continue to serve in this role and can
continue to move the needle, or if they feel like
I might need to move to the private sector and

(51:15):
do like my do like you and my other friends,
or make some real money, then then I might do that.
But as of this time, I just plan on hanging
out in the Griffin household and trying to decompress as
much as possible so that I can make the best,
most sound decision, like I said, not just for myself,
but what's best for this city.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
So last thing, and I've noticed and I hear this
you know a lot during this interview.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
The way that you use the word politician.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
Now you it doesn't have a dirty connotation.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
It's not a dirty word for you when you when
you talk about it.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
And I think that's really interesting because obviously, as you mentioned,
you know that people have are are so disenchanted with systems,
and we've seen so many people do.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Politics the wrong way.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Talk about what, in your mind, what the role of
a politician, of a good politician actually is.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
That's a good question. First of all, I consider myself
a public servant, and the number one thing as a
public servant that you have to recognize is that your
best ability is your availability. You have to be able
to interface with people of all walks of life. And
you know, I pride myself being able to walk in
that boardroom where a lot of times I'm the only
African American, I'm the only person that grew up in

(52:37):
an urban environment, but I'm able to speak truth to
people because of my experience. My wife and me could
have left our neighborhood right here at a large mirror
and MLK years ago. But we made a conscious decision
that we wanted to be here for this community and
this neighborhood, and we wanted kids in this neighborhood to
see families. And we raised our three sons in this neighborhood.

(53:00):
And you know, it's it's been challenges that time. So
I believe a politician needs to be a great public servant,
who is accessible, who listens to people, who makes the
tough decisions, who wears the jacket, who at the end
of the day, does not you know, can look themselves
in the mirror and recognize who they are, and and
and and and say that that's the guy who I

(53:22):
will follow into a fox hole if I need to.
I will tell you that I'll put another lens on this.
That is a little bit how I look at life.
And I truly, truly believe that there's the right way
to do the right thing, just like there's the right
way to do the wrong thing. And I also believe
that there's the wrong way to do the right thing
and the wrong way to do the wrong thing. So

(53:44):
of course I try to stay in that box. The
right way to do the right thing. And you know,
if you stay true to yourself and you stay true
to you know, your authenticity, then it doesn't matter what
all the all the people say. I tell people this,
Darby O, and I apologize, but I think I'm speaking
to an audience that's mature enough to handle this. We
get more f used than we get thank yous. But

(54:06):
at the end of the day, we love the people
of this city, and we sacrifice our family sacrifice and
the people that we love sacrifice in order to lend
us to do this job. And you got to have
a love. You got to hav an agape love. You
got to have an unwavering love to deal with the
people of this city because at times you get let down.
At times you get burnt out, at times, you get
stressed out. But if you really love the people that

(54:28):
you're here to serve, then man is no better feeling
than to help people stay in their homes, to help
them address age old issues, to help them get employment
and help them create wealth, and policies that really help
people thrive, not just survive, but thrive. And you know
that's a mix of me learning from great leaders like

(54:50):
a Frank Jackson who's a good friend, a great friend
and mentor, Arnold Pinkney who is one of the master politicians.
Stephanie Tubbs Jones who had a heart for people and
understood this and a whole different way. Fanny Lewis. I
just had Paul Hill, who was my mentor at the SCD,
the neighborhood House. I had good upbringing who put good
value systems in me that made it possible for me

(55:12):
to really love what I do. And even though I
get a little tired like I am today, it gives
me the strength to carry on.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
Let everybody know how to follow you on social media,
how to get in touch with you, keep up with
what's going on all I guess sure.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
Council President Blaine Griffin on Facebook, on Instagram is Griff
for c l E six. You can always follow me there.
I am on Twitter or x or whatever they're calling
it these days. However, I don't often get on there,
but I do view it every once in a while,
and that's Griff for c l E as well. But

(55:52):
at the end of the day, you can always anybody
can always call my office. And I want to say this,
Darvy O, I think that I mean, out of this
last election, we got to realize something that whether you're
a Republican or Democrat or independent or whatever you declare,
that we got to get back to the basics of
civility and being able to govern in a way that

(56:16):
the people of this city starts to trust institutions again,
because right now I will tell you that the trust
and institutions and government officials is at an all time low.
And if nothing else, we really really got to change
that dynamic if we want to be a successful democracy.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Thank you so much for coming on the show and
spending some time with us.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Man, I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
Thank you Darthy. You keep up the great work. Man,
one of the best journalists in the city.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
I appreciate it. Man, Thank you, Thank you. One more time.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Want to send a special shout out to Cleveland City
Council President Blaine Griffin for coming on the show.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
We really appreciate it. We are out of here. We'll
see you next time.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
This has been a presentation of the FCB podcast Network,
where Real Talk Lives.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Visit us online at fcbpodcasts dot com.