Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 1 (00:29):
It's time now for the Patti Conklin Show, exclusively on
healthylife dot net Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Hey everyone, thank you so much for joining the Patti
Coompon Show. I'm so happy to have you here today.
It's a beautiful hot day in Georgia, but I hope
it's okay where you are, wherever you are in the world.
So I have a wonderful guest.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
You know.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Typically I have co host Vanessa on with me, or
she has a guest on. But I have my guest
today and I'm really excited to have her on. We
have known each other close to thirty years now, and
she's been on some of my podcasts before and so forth.
(01:19):
But she always has so much information and just lots
of lots of insights. I think that where we are
in the world today, there's just a lot of stress,
a lot of stresses that are taking place, and I
think it's creating trauma for people and PTSD. And she
(01:41):
is an expert in this area, and so I wanted
to have her on today to kind of do overviews
and just kind of look at where her world is today.
So doctor Lori Nadell, thank you so much for being on.
I'm so happy to have you here.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Thank you so much much, Patty. It's a pleasure. And yes,
we have known each other for more than thirty years
and there's some incredible work together and had some great
colleagues together. So I'm honored to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I'm so happy you are. So I'm going to read
a long bio. I want you to tell us about you,
what your background is, what your specialties are, what you love.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
To cook, and whatever.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Tell us about you.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Well, I started my career in journalism for twenty years
and I had life changing, very traumatic experience when I
was working for Newsweek in Chile after the military had
taken over and assassinated President Allende, and I was actually
(02:57):
reporting on how many people had disappeared and one of
the sources who I was interviewing told me that he
really hated Americans and he needed American journalists, and he
especially hated American journalists for Newsweek. And he called one
of the general to be one of the heads of
(03:19):
the military junta and basically reported me to the junta
as asking questions of how many people had disappeared. And
fortunately for me, it was a Friday afternoon in summer,
which was said were there, and the general had already
gone in his helicopter to his beach house. So it
told me to be at his office on Monday morning
(03:41):
at eight thirty. And I was living with the family
of a political prisoner, and they hid me. Basically, they
drove me into the countryside and they hit me in
a basement until such time as I could get flight
out of the country, which was about six days. And
the night before I was going to the airport, they
(04:06):
had a you know, they call it a desputyo, like
a goodbye dinner for me. But there was an executive
you know, here we're dealing with executive decrees, and that
time is nineteen seventy four. They had military decrees and
one of them was called the Rule of three, and
only three people were allowed to be gathered in a
(04:28):
pot in a house at the same time, and if
more than three people were together, you could be reported
and interested and taken, you know, to detention central or
concentration camp. And there were nine people at the table
and at nine pm there was a knock at the
door and everybody froze. I mean we all thought that this,
(04:49):
you know, that they that they had finally found me
because I had not shown up for my day morning
interview with the General and I'll just never forget, you know,
what that was like. And it turned out to my
friends there. But as a result of that, and I
did manage to get on my flight the next day,
(05:12):
I had my notes taped to my body. They didn't
have X rays at the time, you know, they didn't
you know it. They didn't even have computers at the time.
And when I got back, I got very involved in
human rights and worked with Amnesty International, the National Council
of Churches and was very disturbed by the human rights
(05:36):
situations that were happening. Basically with the advice and help
of our own government that you know, nineteen seventy four,
seventy five, nobody nobody can nobody knew what human rights was,
so it was kind of an uphill battle. But I
did start two groups or journalists, and one of them
(06:01):
was at the Overseas Press Club, and the other group
that I founded is the Committee to Journalists, which is
still in existence. It is now the largest and most
powerful organization for journalists. And during that ten year period,
I was also working in TV news. I was a
(06:22):
writer and editor at CBS News, and I was able
to persuade Walter Cronkite and Dan Rather to join the
board of these new youth human rights organizations. And I
mentioned that because it was a couple of years after
I escaped from Chile with my life, that there was
(06:44):
a loud noise aside and I woke up and I
was underneath the bed. I was literally in a fetal position,
and I'm shamed now. And I actually developed had developed
PTSD from hearing the machine guns at night and knowing
that I was being hunted by the secret police, and
having developed go into hiding, and I was lucky I
(07:07):
was able to. I was able to find a doctor
who reassured me that this is like combat stress, this
is what veterans go through. And I was kind of
able to manage it and get it under control. But
if we were to fast forward another fifteen years or so,
(07:33):
I burned out in TV news and I developed a
chronic fatigue syndrome, which working in the Iran contry hearings
actually and I was sick for three years, but nobody,
you know, there's no conventional treatment, just like there's no
conventional treatment for COVID, and so I began to learn
(07:55):
how to meditate. I began to look at complimentary and
alternative ways of basically improving my own health. And that
led me to go back to school and get doctorates
in psychology and clinical hypnotherapy with a specialty stress and
(08:16):
health and trauma and PTSD. So it was because of
my own experience and my own determination to find a
natural and organic ways of helping people who we really
don't understand how powerful PTSD is. And I really believe
(08:42):
that as a culture and as a society and as
a people and as a nation, that we have collective
trauma right now, and it is it is causing a
tremendous amount. It's just it's an ordeal. I mean, people
are traumatized by watching the news listening through the news,
(09:06):
and the news is horrifying. I mean, there's an increase
in natural disasters that are ferocious, like the one in Texas,
where we have wars going on, and the wars that
we know about, but you know, we've been engaged in
secret wars for you know, for decades that we never
hear about. The worst that we know about are escalating
(09:29):
and so that so when we have trauma, to put
it simply, we don't feel in our own skin. We
literally were being flooded by molecules of emotion. All of
our emotions are stored as molecules, and those trauma molecules
will flood us and it's like when an engine floods
(09:50):
and we we we freeze or we re experience what
it felt like when we had that original event that
was traumatic. And you know, people use the word traumatic
all the time, but you know, and I know, trauma
is not a bad hair day. You know, it doesn't
(10:10):
mean that you had to fight with your friend. It
means that you were, you witnessed or were exposed to
a sudden and unexpected violent event. Could be a near
miss on the highway, and it could be something that
something happened in your stove, and you know, you pull
the pot off just in time to prevent you know,
(10:33):
your kids from getting hurt. These events that are sudden, unexpected,
they they caused those molecules of emotion to kind of
stay in our Olympic system, which is the part of
the brain that stores our emotion, and they can get reactivated.
And that's really what I've been working with net for
(10:56):
over thirty years. Yeah, that's that's that's that's how that's
how I got to commit myself, I guess, or it's
more appalling because of what I myself endured at a
time when there was no real information about this, right.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Right, And I mean I think that that's what's really
important and what you brought to the forefront, because I
want to go back if I know you've been involved
in helping in maschool shootings. When did that start? Was
that after Columbine or at Columbine?
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Well, I actually was, I helped the Parkland shooting. My
my last book, which is called The Five Gifts Discovering, Hope,
Healing and Strength and Disaster strikes that that book came
out right around the time of the Parkland school shooting,
(11:58):
and it was a publisher, was a Florida publisher, and
I was living in Florida at the time, and I
was working. I had a clinical supervisor, and I was
on the debriefing team for the Broward County Fire Department,
which meant that if a team of firefighters went out
(12:20):
to on a call and a child died or a
baby died, you know, they would come back and most
of most firefighters are young parents themselves, and you know,
we would debrief them and we would also we call it,
you know, psychological first aid, would give them and you know,
(12:41):
we give them certain exercises, things that they could do
for self care so that they would understand that there
are things that are going to come up. You know,
your body's going to be flooding with adrenaline. You might
not want to eat, you might be able to sleep,
you might not you know, you might be on edge,
you might want to talk to people. There were certain
(13:01):
things that are really important that you do to take
care of yourself that you know that there are people
like myself at the time and my clinical supervisor and
people who were actually trained in what we call critical
incident stress management who were available for you twenty four
(13:22):
to seven, because it's really important for people who were
in that field of being first responders to understand that
it's not weak to be just when you witness something
horrible like a child dying. And when the first responders
(13:43):
went in and found seventeen dead people, most of them children,
and another seventeen wounded by gunshots. It was I remember
one of the one of the thing. It was one
of police sergeants saying that you know that that looking
(14:03):
at those coffins was probably the worst day of his
life when I see all those those those young people's coffins.
I was on the debriefing team for the Parkland teachers
and custodial staff and administrators. We did several days and
then because of the book, which we gave copies of
(14:26):
the book to every teacher at Marjorie Stone in Douglas
High School, I knew that when the new term started
in September that it would be six months after the event.
In six months after a traumatic event is very triggering
him because you're just starting to kind of get over
(14:49):
the shock. But something like a fire drilled bell can
cause everybody to start streaking and feel like you're going
to jump out of your skin. And as the result
of all the work I had done, you know, I
think you and I had spoken. I had a program
for several years for teenagers whose fathers were killed in
(15:10):
the World Trade Center. So I has learned a lot
about helping kids, and helping teachers and helping parents to
help kids. And I've developed something that I call it's
a psychological first aid kind of toolkit. And I developed
a program for the teachers at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas so
(15:31):
that there were things that they could do very quickly
if there was a fire, droll or an announcement, and
they could see that there were some kids that were
getting scared of they themselves were feeling unsafe in their
own skin. And I did that workshop for every teacher
in Marjorie Stoneman Douglas. And I'm thrilled that from time
(15:54):
to time I'll get an email from one of the
teachers like, oh, doctor Laurie, about whatever you taught us
that day, it really really helps. So right, these are
things that we can learn how to do which would
help to stop a panic attack from forming when you
start to feel the early warning signs of those surges
of stress. Warm on self care ultimately is the most
(16:18):
important thing we can learn about ourselves if we have
experienced something traumatic where it was last week, last year,
or in childhood. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Yeah, It's amazing to me on how many people don't
realize that they're in a PTSD situation or a trauma
experience and being triggered because of something that happened in
the past, and they're you know, I've had so many
(16:53):
people ask me, you know, so when we were kids,
you know, we had to hide underneath our death during drills,
you know, I remember that, right, And and so people
have said, you know, what's what's the difference? Okay, so
we were going through our drills when we were kids,
(17:14):
and you know that didn't traumatize us. Why are why
are kids so traumatized now and having to do school
shooting drills, you know what to do to stay safe?
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Like it's it's it's incredibly different.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
We weren't going through bombings, you know, right right we were.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
We weren't exposed to the level of physical violence, you know, shooting, abuse,
you know, bloodshed. I mean, it's just it's it's it's
like relentless and the the that has taken place because
(17:58):
of everybody has these cell phones and they want to
have whether you want, whether you want to sit down
and watch a new show or not. You know, if
something happens and you're going to get something flash on
your phone and you're going to see, you know, throughout
the day, I wrote in the introduction to the Five Gifts,
throughout the day, you're bombarded with you in little flash
(18:22):
frames of segments of videos by three seconds, five seconds,
absolutely terrific images. Now, I worked in the newsrooms for
twenty years and I would be we'd have a ten
hour shift and I'd be looking up in a wall
with maybe you know, five to eight monitors or screens
(18:44):
and suffering feats coming in from all over the world,
and it would be bombings, it would be assassination to
be plane crashes, but I mean just death and devastation
on every single screen and people screaming as you know,
sounds of gunfire, and you know, after a while, I
think you develop a clinical compassion. And that's what happened
(19:09):
to me. And one day I looked up and all
I could see was like death and destruction, and I thought,
is this what God sees when God looks at us?
You know? Is this really Is this really who we've become?
God's creation of humanity? Is this really? Is this really
(19:30):
who we are? I mean, it quite shocking, And in
that moment, I knew that I was going to have
to find a way to offer some kind of help
and support to people who had gone through these life
shattering events. You know, when I spoke to my colleague
(19:50):
and the newsroom, I said, you know, like, what's going
to happen to these people? This person just lost the children,
you know, when the building fell on them. And they
would look at me like like, why are you even
think thinking that? It's just you know, it's a completely
different shift. And it's not that anybody took pleasure in
watching the death and destruction and suffering. It affected. People
(20:13):
were concerned, and you know, nobody likes to feel helpless,
and watching a lot of death and destruction can cause
you to feel really quite helpless. And the big picture,
but I think that that was a turning point for
me and knowing that I would I had to find
a way to support and offer help to people who
(20:38):
had just had sub Yeah, he had taken away from them.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
It's so amazing. I mean, your life is just amazing
in how You've been able to see things and understand
things and be able to help people. And I want
to continue on that on that thought when we come back,
because there's so much that you're doing now. You're so
incredible and folks, when we get back, we'll continue with
(21:06):
doctor Lori matel and she's got lots of books out there,
so we'll talk about that later, but we'll be back
in just a minute.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Thank you.
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Speaker 3 (23:46):
Hey everyone, thanks for coming back with us. It's Patty
and doctor Lori nadell as my guest today, and we're
talking about trauma and some of the experiences that said
Laurie has had. And I had forgotten that you lost
your house during Hurricane Sandy. I remember driving up the
(24:08):
East Coast during a Hurricane Sandy and how awful it
was when.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
I was up there.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
But you actually lost your home and if I recall
having to climb up into the attic. But in addition
to that, not like there haven't been many of those traumas.
I think that's why you understand it so well. You
I had a home.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
There in.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I don't know if it was Long Island at the
time or a while.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Yeah, yeah, I had my dream beach cottage that my
little girl found, which is ten years old, said Mummy,
can we have can we buy this house? And it was.
I used to joke after a while that the house
called to me, but it was it really was magical,
(25:02):
and you know, you could see boats from the front yard,
and yeah, it's just it was. It was very very special.
And I did a lot of healing work there and
workshops there, you know, and it was this very meditative space.
And when the when the storm stewage started and and
this this is all you'll love this story because six
(25:25):
months before Hurricane Sandy, my dad came to me in
a dream and he had died in nineteen eighty nine,
and he said, Laurie, you need to get more water.
And this was like around at the end of May.
He said, you're going to have an emergency. You're going
to need extra water, so go out and get more
water for the house. Okay. So I went to the
(25:47):
store and I bought a few gallons of water, you know,
and I stored them. And then around the fourth of July,
my my best friend, I think of his my favorite uncle.
He showed up in a dream. He said, you know,
if your dad's up set, you're not taking it seriously enough.
You really don't have enough earth. Something's going to happen
and it's going to be an emergency. You do need
(26:10):
to take it seriously and get more water to go along.
Oh okay, I think, well they spent you know all,
it's very hard to reach somebody in a dream from
the other side. I thought, they worked very hard to
get to me. So I went out a case of water,
and I got some more gallons of water, and I thought,
I don't know what this is about. And then about
(26:32):
every day, my dad showed up again in a dream.
This time he had been a dentist. He was wearing
his lab coat and he's very stern, and he said,
you are not taking this seriously. You do not have
enough water for what is to come. And I said
what is to come? And he said, you need more water.
(26:53):
So I went out. I bought thirteen gallons of water,
cases of drinking water. And the night of the storm,
the storm surge because there was a full moon and
a high tide and this megastorm that covered people don't
realize it was a thousand miles of coastline. A million
of us lost our homes. We never heard anything about
(27:14):
this anymore. A million of us lost our homes, and
most of us were like me. We had little beach cottages.
We weren't, you know. It wasn't like like celebrity vlle
like that, like entrance. So the storm searge came in
and it destroyed the town's sewage treat plants. And when
(27:36):
the tide went out, everything in the house and all
of the gardens and all of the land, everything was
covered with fecal matter and oil and raw sewage. FEMA
didn't show up per days. The red crust didn't show
up for days. The water, you know, there was some
kind of announcement went out somehow, word of mouth, don't
(27:59):
use the water to drink the water, don't cook with
the water. And I had water. I was the only
one the block had water that I was able to
give to my neighbors. Was because of the chow.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, that's just yeah. I remember talking to you after that.
It was traumatic.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Traumatic, it really was.
Speaker 6 (28:22):
You know.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
One of the lawyers that I interviewed for of the
five Gifts and one of the pieces that never gets disgusted.
If you speak to anybody who's going through this in Asheville,
North Carolina after the floodsphere. The financial trauma that lingers
after a disaster. You know that the disaster, the natural disaster,
(28:44):
the event. It it's like the first scene, it's the
opening scene in a disaster movie. That goes on and
on and on, and you get luck to, you get
lied to, you get ripped off, you get people. You know,
FEMA tells you one thing one week and the next
week they tell you something else, and your insurance company
(29:05):
tries to cheat you. And then if you do get money,
the bank that holds your mortgage confiscates your insurance check
and puts it in ESCO and makes you jump through
all your soups and they treat you like your I mean,
it really is quite horrifying what people go through in
this country. There is no network, no social network of
(29:25):
support for people who are going through natural disaster recovery,
and the financial trauma destroys people for years, and many
people never ever recover. So I ain't it really.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I mean, it takes that financial, emotional, everything drained. But
you know, before before Hurricane Sandy, you went through nine
to eleven, you know, and that.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Was that was huge.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
You had your home on the coast. The office in Manhattan,
all right.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
My office was in the FEMA zone. I office was
across from Saint Vincent's Hospital, And ironically, you know, I
worked late. Nine to eleven was on a Tuesday, and
I worked Monday nights, and I worked. I left at
a little after nine thirty pm, and I left the
(30:22):
windows open because it was very hot. It's like eighty
degrees outside, and the windows faced south, which was where
the World Grade Center was. And when the after the disaster,
that the FEMIS at a boundary of fourteenth Street. My
office was south of fourteenth Street, and when we weren't
(30:45):
back into the office because only residents were allowed into
that zone. So it was two weeks before we could
go into the office. And we walked into the office.
Everything was covered in that test and that polverized steel chemicals,
tuxans and pulverized human remains, and it was in everything.
(31:09):
It was in the little holes and the receivers of
the landline phone, it was in the plants, it was
in the carpet, it was in the counter. I mean,
so you know, we vacuumed it up and we got
air cleaners and air filters, but it was it was
so pervasive and you could smell it in the street
for a year. It's when we talked to people who
(31:31):
lived through nine to eleven who were downtown. The thing
that we always, you know, mentioned first is the smell.
You know, it's like like like burnt plastic and locals
and there's weird almost like a barbecue smell because of
all the people who got killed, you know, like incinerated, right,
(31:54):
And it was it was horrifying, and I did some
volunteer work down at graund Yere. I actually organized a
holistic healthcare for people at Borough of Manhattan Community College,
which is just north of the World Trade Center. And
it was a few months after and people were having
nightmares and ashbacts, and people who lived in that area
(32:17):
weren't able to come back to their houses because they
were so traumatized. They were camped out on people's sofas,
some of them for a couple of years. So it's
a huge thing to be able to offer any kind
of support and healing to you know, the support staff right,
(32:37):
students who had to had to try to figure out
how how are they going to continue, how are they
going to go back to school? How are they going
to go back right into that area because for years
people were afraid to come downtown.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Right right. I know that we're going to be coming
up on a break here in a few minutes, but
I really wanted to talk about finish up with talking
about long COVID, because you know, that's really been hitting
in the last five years. I mean, you have been
(33:15):
such a blessing to so many people, and I want
to talk about long COVID and how that's been affecting
people in the last five years. So when we come back,
folks on the other side, we're going to be talking
about that.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
So we'll see you.
Speaker 7 (33:30):
In just a minute.
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(34:54):
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If you're on Pattyconklin dot com, you might want to
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(35:44):
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Speaker 3 (36:04):
Hey everyone, thank you for joining us today. I know
this is you might consider this a heavy topic, but
it's such an important topic because we all go through
trauma at times, and some of us we go through
a trauma once in our life, and some of us
have multiple traumas in our life. And I think that
(36:26):
you know, even given the state of the world and
what's taking place and so forth. I know trauma is triggering,
even if it's not directly affecting you. But I do
want to talk about long COVID because certainly affected one
member of my family. And Laurie, you've really been quirking
(36:49):
a lot with long COVID. So talk to us about
COVID when it first hit in twenty twenty and what
the effects have been and what you're seeing a psychologists
and people's reactions in dealing with long COVID.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
You know with people, you know, people were in shock,
of course, and I mean it was quite terrifying. We
sow not more more refrigerated, more trucks outside of hospitals
and not We didn't see it in New York, but
I know that in certain countries they're just piles of
body bags in the streets. You know, it's kind of
(37:27):
like yes, a flague, yep. And the you know, the numbers,
the fatality numbers for the first year and a half
were horrifying, so you know, there and then there was lockdown,
so there was you know, there was there was a
kind of like a soul trauma or humanity that we
suddenly had this disease that was rampant, that nobody knew
(37:50):
anything about that. People you know, health works were you know,
like wearing radiation suits to walk into to work every day.
And after a few months, So because of their own
experience with chronic fatigue and having worked with people who
(38:10):
have cancer and other catasrophic illnesses ms, traumatic brain injury
over the years, I was aware that there's a psychological
components to being seriously ill and that you know, and
(38:32):
I say this as someone who's experienced it, there is
a stigma against people who are sick. If you were sick,
you were sidelined, you are considered not valuable society. We
worship athletes, young people, celebrities, healthy people. And if all
of a sudden you are too sick you can't work,
(38:54):
or you can't cook dinner because you can't stand up
long enough to dinner for your kids, you can't drive,
you're bedridden, that is a it's a different kind of
trauma because well, I say, like, you meet three elephants
when you have an illness that doesn't heal, And the
(39:17):
first one, the first elephant, is the loss of control,
the loss of physical control. Your body doesn't do what
you needed to do, you can't breathe, you can't talk,
you can't walk, you can't sleep, you can't eat whatever.
That's the first elephant. The second elephant is loss of safety,
and that's really where the trauma element comes in. You
(39:38):
feel vulnerable, you feel fragile, you don't feel safe in
your own skin. You're worried like what if it happens again?
Or what if I have an accident? Or who's going
to come and help me? And the first elephant, which
is the more complex piece of a puzzle, is the
loss of identity. Who you start to ask who am I?
(40:01):
He am I if I can't run? Who am I
if I can't well? Who am I if I can't
go to work? Who am I if I can't be
a parent? And so I was talking to a doctor,
Noah green Fan, who is one of the leading pulmonary
rehabilitation therapist who is also an MS person during nine
(40:22):
to eleven, and he was starting an online support group
for people who had survived the first acute state of COVID.
But we're now developing weird symptoms, neurological symptoms, dysautonomia where
your heartbeat changes if you move, if you roll over
(40:45):
in your sleep, your heartbeat goes up to one hundred
eighty one hundred eighty five, even though you were previously
in good help or help, or you can lose consciousness,
to lose your balance, basically you have brain fog. Fog
is a huge issue for people with long COVID, and
(41:05):
so we started uh He and Erica, his sisters, also
a therapist. The three of us started the first and
still ongoing free support group for people with COVID, and
(41:26):
people had no they couldn't even talk about this with
people because once you're sick, nobody realizes there's an inner
world that you have to navigate that is no longer
a safe place, and how do you do that? And
so one of the I did well some of the
(41:46):
trauma emotional first aid techniques and you can find these
on my website. The Pulmonary Wellness Foundation put up two
of my workshops on my website which is Lorraine tail
dot com and guided meditations for people here they could
begin to find that safe place, that refuge within themselves.
(42:10):
And I also I also use the Jungian archetype of
the explorer, and I know that for myself. When I
developed chronic fatigue, I was a physically active person. I
was a windsurfer and suddenly I'm like bedridden for years,
and then I discovered that I had been inner world.
(42:32):
And you know, when we're very busy in the outer world,
we don't even and nobody uses the term in our
society anyway, because we're very externally focused, that we have
a whole inner world that we can begin to discover
and we can find resilience, and we can find creativity,
and we can find intuition, and we can be bad
(42:54):
and we can still become explorers. And by reframing that
and also there's a beautiful quote about a sacred illness.
A sacred illness is one that although it takes away
things that you used to be able to do, by
taking those if you wait, if you like activities away,
(43:16):
it gives us the opportunity to look within ourselves and
to develop strengths and resources and abilities we never knew
we had. We can use them to help ourselves and
other people. And you know, that's that's that's been the scene, uh,
for the work that I've been doing with long COVID
(43:37):
people now going on five years going on, right.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
But you know, one of the things that that I
always think about with long COVID is you know when
when COVID first hit, you know, however it hit, I'm
not even going to go there. I you know, I
remember getting I was getting a leap for Israel when
the first cases started coming forward. It might doctor was
just like, you're not going to go, And I'm like,
(44:03):
why can't I go to Israel? And she said, it's
not that you can't go, I'm just not sure you're
going to get back in the country. Unfortunately I didn't
go because it was like three months of a band
of coming back in the country. So we had this,
We had this very traumatic experience that kind of hit everyone.
(44:24):
My daughter being a daughter in law, being a frontline
person as a pharmacist. You know, they stopped bringing the
kids to me because I've always had lung issues. I'm older,
and everybody seemed to be intact.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Yeah, but of dying.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
So so we went through this this time period of drama, trauma,
not knowing what it was and so forth, and then
people getting it and so on. But the thing that
really sticks to me and I really want to talk
about this is the fact that people with long COVID
(45:08):
it may be mild symptoms that may be really heavy
duty symptoms, but the sympathy empathy factor from everyday people
is no longer in there in the beginning, and we'll
talk about this when we come back. But in the beginning,
everybody was seeing what they could do to help each other.
(45:29):
And now it's like, oh, you've got COVID and it's
kind of brushed off. So when we get back, let's
talk about because so many of the symptoms are unseen.
The person's going through it, but other people don't see it.
So folks, when we come back, we'll continue this conversation.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
We're so thankfully important.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
That you've joined us on Healthy Life Network, and Laurie
and I'll be back in just a minute.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Patti Conklin is busy, but she's never too busy for you,
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(46:30):
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(48:04):
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Speaker 2 (48:13):
Radio Your Way healthylike dot net.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Hey everyone, thank you so much for being a part
of today's show.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
Laurie.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Before we get into this next segment, talk about uh
if you take a few minutes and talk about your
books and where people can find more information about you
so that they can get into some of this great understanding.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
Well, thank you, Patty. I've published eight books. It's hard
to believe one of them when you and I met
was a four time bestseller called Sixth Sense, Unlocking Your
Ultimate Mind Power, and it was the first book that
talked about intuition as a natural mental ability that we
(49:15):
can all develop, whether you believe in it or not.
It's like gravity. It works whether you believe it or not.
It's part of you. It's like your blood type, and
we do have different types and styles of intuition. It
looked at multiple intelligence and it was the first I
was actually the first reporter, if you will, to break
(49:36):
the story of the Pentagon's secret psychic espionage program. And
as a result of that, when they finally to classify
this program, I called it stargate or remote viewing.
Speaker 8 (49:50):
I had an.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
Opportunity to interview about six of the officers who had
been recruited into that kind of men in black kind
of program, and I've gradied with several of them, and
it's fascinate. It's a fascinating subject. But Sixth Sense, Unlocking
Your Ultimate Mind Power is an audiobook now and it's
(50:13):
still in print after thirty five years, and it's available
on Amazon and probably Barnes and Noble.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (50:20):
My most recent book is it's called The Five Gifts
discovering hope, healing, and strength when disaster strikes. And as
I said, it came out, literally came off the press
as the Parkland school shooting was happening. And I'm very
honored and proud that Dan Rather wrote the forward to
(50:44):
my book. And you know, I'm talking about updating it
and kind of freshening it up because unfortunately, several of
the predictions that I made in the opening chapter of
the book, having increased school shootings have increased mass you know,
(51:04):
they called mass casualty events have increased, Climate change has
intensified and gotten worse, and political instability is now something
that we live with on a day to day basis,
and we need And the point of the five Gifts
was that we need to learn from other cultures and
(51:27):
other traditions. How does it? How do how do people
who don't have television, who don't have indoor plumbing, who
deal with catastrophes and wars and revolutions and plagues, and
yet they have balance and equanimity and gratitude and they're
happier than we are, Like, what can we learn from them?
(51:50):
And that's where the gifts come from. That's that was
the point of the five gifts. We don't have the
skill set to deal with long periods of hardship. We
react to everything because we think that any hardship should
just go away immediately. And writ resilience so true. The
humility we need patients, we need empathy, forgiveness and growth,
(52:14):
and those are the five gifts. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
Yeah, let's let's kind of grafting stuff on and they're
all wonderful books, by the way, hope. Let's let's kind
of give people some you know that are listening, that
are going through long COVID. What do you recommend I mean,
support groups, readings, getting in touch with themselves, getting in
(52:39):
touch with their body. What what would you recommends as
first to do well?
Speaker 4 (52:47):
There is a free Sunday night support group you know
that that's been going now for five years. And if
somebody likes to, you know, reach out to me through
my website. There's a phone number. I prefer to speak
to peace people. I can hear your voice.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
Website is doctor Lori Nadel.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
No, it's Nadel dot com. It's just Lori l a
U r I E n A d E l dot
com dot com. And there's a phone number to contact me.
I prefer that because you know, we we make a
much stronger connection voice to voice than we do. Yeah,
and I'll get the I'll get the information, uh, how
(53:29):
to register for that Sunday night support group. I also
have a free YouTube channel which will find a link
to that on my website. And I have meditations to
help you feel calm and safe in your own skin,
which is very important when you're dealing with a chronic illness.
And I think that that's the most important. And you know,
(53:52):
to be gentle with yourself because healing is not a
straight line. And really we don't really this is a
this is a new disease. We don't need you know,
the medicine, the field of medicine doesn't really understand long
COVID and thirty three million people that we know of
who have long COVID or really a forgotten population. You know,
(54:15):
they's are abandoned. And that because you're making it up
or overreacting is because you have been abandoned. And the pharma,
big pharma obviously field there's not enough money in developing
you know, conventional treatments and so there are things like
(54:36):
adding electrolytes to your water wearing compression garments and learning.
Stress management is very important because stress triggers inflammation, and
inflammation triggers long COVID flare ups. And that's science. And
so you can go to go to my YouTube channel,
(54:57):
I have some short meditation, some longermented pation. Know what
your stress triggers are, and be kind to yourself.
Speaker 3 (55:06):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's so important. And I think to
be kind to yourself because we are really good at.
Speaker 4 (55:15):
Just plamming ourselves.
Speaker 3 (55:16):
You know, I should, I could have, I would have,
you know, be the judgment that we pass on ourselves
that what's wrongs?
Speaker 4 (55:26):
You know, I should be better by now, and you
know we're harsh. Judgment.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
The judgment is just so much of a chance challenge
for people. So give yourself grace, smoke, you know, really
take time to give yourself grace to know, you know,
to to know that you're going through something that we
really don't understand. Your body is amazing. Thank it every
(55:56):
day for healing. Even if you don't feel like your
symptoms are getting better. Thank you every day it will
listen and and just help yourself get through the traumas
in your life, no matter what they are, because we
all have them, and yeah, there's just so many great
(56:17):
releases and great things that we can be doing with it.
So just be grace, being grace, be in touch with
LORI because you really mean goodness, You've had quite a
lifetime of these and I think it probably just regenerates
into creating and awesome, an awesome database in your mind
(56:46):
of how I have a.
Speaker 4 (56:47):
Lot of resources for people. A lot of them are
available on the website. I'm also a medical reiki master
and for animals and distress and people, so they can
get on that website. Animal Ricky planet dot com. Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah,
you know, feel free to call and ask me how
(57:09):
I can help. Okay.
Speaker 3 (57:11):
I so appreciate you coming on the show today and
just sharing your knowledge and experiences and information.
Speaker 4 (57:18):
I love you dearly. I'm glad you have called.
Speaker 3 (57:22):
You friends for the last thirty years, and we'll get
you back on So thank you so much, folks, thank
you so much for listening, and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 4 (57:34):
Oh, thank you.
Broadcasting from Manhattan Beach and the world wide Web. You're
listening to CHSR healthylife dot net.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
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Speaker 1 (00:29):
It's time now for the Patti Conklin Show, exclusively on
healthylife dot net Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Hey everyone, thank you so much for joining the Patti
Coompon Show. I'm so happy to have you here today.
It's a beautiful hot day in Georgia, but I hope
it's okay where you are, wherever you are in the world.
So I have a wonderful guest.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
You know.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Typically I have co host Vanessa on with me, or
she has a guest on. But I have my guest
today and I'm really excited to have her on. We
have known each other close to thirty years now, and
she's been on some of my podcasts before and so forth.
(01:19):
But she always has so much information and just lots
of lots of insights. I think that where we are
in the world today, there's just a lot of stress,
a lot of stresses that are taking place, and I
think it's creating trauma for people and PTSD. And she
(01:41):
is an expert in this area, and so I wanted
to have her on today to kind of do overviews
and just kind of look at where her world is today.
So doctor Lori Nadell, thank you so much for being on.
I'm so happy to have you here.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Thank you so much much, Patty. It's a pleasure. And yes,
we have known each other for more than thirty years
and there's some incredible work together and had some great
colleagues together. So I'm honored to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I'm so happy you are. So I'm going to read
a long bio. I want you to tell us about you,
what your background is, what your specialties are, what you love.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
To cook, and whatever.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Tell us about you.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Well, I started my career in journalism for twenty years
and I had life changing, very traumatic experience when I
was working for Newsweek in Chile after the military had
taken over and assassinated President Allende, and I was actually
(02:57):
reporting on how many people had disappeared and one of
the sources who I was interviewing told me that he
really hated Americans and he needed American journalists, and he
especially hated American journalists for Newsweek. And he called one
of the general to be one of the heads of
(03:19):
the military junta and basically reported me to the junta
as asking questions of how many people had disappeared. And
fortunately for me, it was a Friday afternoon in summer,
which was said were there, and the general had already
gone in his helicopter to his beach house. So it
told me to be at his office on Monday morning
(03:41):
at eight thirty. And I was living with the family
of a political prisoner, and they hid me. Basically, they
drove me into the countryside and they hit me in
a basement until such time as I could get flight
out of the country, which was about six days. And
the night before I was going to the airport, they
(04:06):
had a you know, they call it a desputyo, like
a goodbye dinner for me. But there was an executive
you know, here we're dealing with executive decrees, and that
time is nineteen seventy four. They had military decrees and
one of them was called the Rule of three, and
only three people were allowed to be gathered in a
(04:28):
pot in a house at the same time, and if
more than three people were together, you could be reported
and interested and taken, you know, to detention central or
concentration camp. And there were nine people at the table
and at nine pm there was a knock at the
door and everybody froze. I mean we all thought that this,
(04:49):
you know, that they that they had finally found me
because I had not shown up for my day morning
interview with the General and I'll just never forget, you know,
what that was like. And it turned out to my
friends there. But as a result of that, and I
did manage to get on my flight the next day,
(05:12):
I had my notes taped to my body. They didn't
have X rays at the time, you know, they didn't
you know it. They didn't even have computers at the time.
And when I got back, I got very involved in
human rights and worked with Amnesty International, the National Council
of Churches and was very disturbed by the human rights
(05:36):
situations that were happening. Basically with the advice and help
of our own government that you know, nineteen seventy four,
seventy five, nobody nobody can nobody knew what human rights was,
so it was kind of an uphill battle. But I
did start two groups or journalists, and one of them
(06:01):
was at the Overseas Press Club, and the other group
that I founded is the Committee to Journalists, which is
still in existence. It is now the largest and most
powerful organization for journalists. And during that ten year period,
I was also working in TV news. I was a
(06:22):
writer and editor at CBS News, and I was able
to persuade Walter Cronkite and Dan Rather to join the
board of these new youth human rights organizations. And I
mentioned that because it was a couple of years after
I escaped from Chile with my life, that there was
(06:44):
a loud noise aside and I woke up and I
was underneath the bed. I was literally in a fetal position,
and I'm shamed now. And I actually developed had developed
PTSD from hearing the machine guns at night and knowing
that I was being hunted by the secret police, and
having developed go into hiding, and I was lucky I
(07:07):
was able to. I was able to find a doctor
who reassured me that this is like combat stress, this
is what veterans go through. And I was kind of
able to manage it and get it under control. But
if we were to fast forward another fifteen years or so,
(07:33):
I burned out in TV news and I developed a
chronic fatigue syndrome, which working in the Iran contry hearings
actually and I was sick for three years, but nobody,
you know, there's no conventional treatment, just like there's no
conventional treatment for COVID, and so I began to learn
(07:55):
how to meditate. I began to look at complimentary and
alternative ways of basically improving my own health. And that
led me to go back to school and get doctorates
in psychology and clinical hypnotherapy with a specialty stress and
(08:16):
health and trauma and PTSD. So it was because of
my own experience and my own determination to find a
natural and organic ways of helping people who we really
don't understand how powerful PTSD is. And I really believe
(08:42):
that as a culture and as a society and as
a people and as a nation, that we have collective
trauma right now, and it is it is causing a
tremendous amount. It's just it's an ordeal. I mean, people
are traumatized by watching the news listening through the news,
(09:06):
and the news is horrifying. I mean, there's an increase
in natural disasters that are ferocious, like the one in Texas,
where we have wars going on, and the wars that
we know about, but you know, we've been engaged in
secret wars for you know, for decades that we never
hear about. The worst that we know about are escalating
(09:29):
and so that so when we have trauma, to put
it simply, we don't feel in our own skin. We
literally were being flooded by molecules of emotion. All of
our emotions are stored as molecules, and those trauma molecules
will flood us and it's like when an engine floods
(09:50):
and we we we freeze or we re experience what
it felt like when we had that original event that
was traumatic. And you know, people use the word traumatic
all the time, but you know, and I know, trauma
is not a bad hair day. You know, it doesn't
(10:10):
mean that you had to fight with your friend. It
means that you were, you witnessed or were exposed to
a sudden and unexpected violent event. Could be a near
miss on the highway, and it could be something that
something happened in your stove, and you know, you pull
the pot off just in time to prevent you know,
(10:33):
your kids from getting hurt. These events that are sudden, unexpected,
they they caused those molecules of emotion to kind of
stay in our Olympic system, which is the part of
the brain that stores our emotion, and they can get reactivated.
And that's really what I've been working with net for
(10:56):
over thirty years. Yeah, that's that's that's that's how that's
how I got to commit myself, I guess, or it's
more appalling because of what I myself endured at a
time when there was no real information about this, right.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Right, And I mean I think that that's what's really
important and what you brought to the forefront, because I
want to go back if I know you've been involved
in helping in maschool shootings. When did that start? Was
that after Columbine or at Columbine?
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Well, I actually was, I helped the Parkland shooting. My
my last book, which is called The Five Gifts Discovering, Hope,
Healing and Strength and Disaster strikes that that book came
out right around the time of the Parkland school shooting,
(11:58):
and it was a publisher, was a Florida publisher, and
I was living in Florida at the time, and I
was working. I had a clinical supervisor, and I was
on the debriefing team for the Broward County Fire Department,
which meant that if a team of firefighters went out
(12:20):
to on a call and a child died or a
baby died, you know, they would come back and most
of most firefighters are young parents themselves, and you know,
we would debrief them and we would also we call it,
you know, psychological first aid, would give them and you know,
(12:41):
we give them certain exercises, things that they could do
for self care so that they would understand that there
are things that are going to come up. You know,
your body's going to be flooding with adrenaline. You might
not want to eat, you might be able to sleep,
you might not you know, you might be on edge,
you might want to talk to people. There were certain
(13:01):
things that are really important that you do to take
care of yourself that you know that there are people
like myself at the time and my clinical supervisor and
people who were actually trained in what we call critical
incident stress management who were available for you twenty four
(13:22):
to seven, because it's really important for people who were
in that field of being first responders to understand that
it's not weak to be just when you witness something
horrible like a child dying. And when the first responders
(13:43):
went in and found seventeen dead people, most of them children,
and another seventeen wounded by gunshots. It was I remember
one of the one of the thing. It was one
of police sergeants saying that you know that that looking
(14:03):
at those coffins was probably the worst day of his
life when I see all those those those young people's coffins.
I was on the debriefing team for the Parkland teachers
and custodial staff and administrators. We did several days and
then because of the book, which we gave copies of
(14:26):
the book to every teacher at Marjorie Stone in Douglas
High School, I knew that when the new term started
in September that it would be six months after the event.
In six months after a traumatic event is very triggering
him because you're just starting to kind of get over
(14:49):
the shock. But something like a fire drilled bell can
cause everybody to start streaking and feel like you're going
to jump out of your skin. And as the result
of all the work I had done, you know, I
think you and I had spoken. I had a program
for several years for teenagers whose fathers were killed in
(15:10):
the World Trade Center. So I has learned a lot
about helping kids, and helping teachers and helping parents to
help kids. And I've developed something that I call it's
a psychological first aid kind of toolkit. And I developed
a program for the teachers at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas so
(15:31):
that there were things that they could do very quickly
if there was a fire, droll or an announcement, and
they could see that there were some kids that were
getting scared of they themselves were feeling unsafe in their
own skin. And I did that workshop for every teacher
in Marjorie Stoneman Douglas. And I'm thrilled that from time
(15:54):
to time I'll get an email from one of the
teachers like, oh, doctor Laurie, about whatever you taught us
that day, it really really helps. So right, these are
things that we can learn how to do which would
help to stop a panic attack from forming when you
start to feel the early warning signs of those surges
of stress. Warm on self care ultimately is the most
(16:18):
important thing we can learn about ourselves if we have
experienced something traumatic where it was last week, last year,
or in childhood. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Yeah, It's amazing to me on how many people don't
realize that they're in a PTSD situation or a trauma
experience and being triggered because of something that happened in
the past, and they're you know, I've had so many
(16:53):
people ask me, you know, so when we were kids,
you know, we had to hide underneath our death during drills,
you know, I remember that, right, And and so people
have said, you know, what's what's the difference? Okay, so
we were going through our drills when we were kids,
(17:14):
and you know that didn't traumatize us. Why are why
are kids so traumatized now and having to do school
shooting drills, you know what to do to stay safe?
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Like it's it's it's incredibly different.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
We weren't going through bombings, you know, right right we were.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
We weren't exposed to the level of physical violence, you know, shooting, abuse,
you know, bloodshed. I mean, it's just it's it's it's
like relentless and the the that has taken place because
(17:58):
of everybody has these cell phones and they want to
have whether you want, whether you want to sit down
and watch a new show or not. You know, if
something happens and you're going to get something flash on
your phone and you're going to see, you know, throughout
the day, I wrote in the introduction to the Five Gifts,
throughout the day, you're bombarded with you in little flash
(18:22):
frames of segments of videos by three seconds, five seconds,
absolutely terrific images. Now, I worked in the newsrooms for
twenty years and I would be we'd have a ten
hour shift and I'd be looking up in a wall
with maybe you know, five to eight monitors or screens
(18:44):
and suffering feats coming in from all over the world,
and it would be bombings, it would be assassination to
be plane crashes, but I mean just death and devastation
on every single screen and people screaming as you know,
sounds of gunfire, and you know, after a while, I
think you develop a clinical compassion. And that's what happened
(19:09):
to me. And one day I looked up and all
I could see was like death and destruction, and I thought,
is this what God sees when God looks at us?
You know? Is this really Is this really who we've become?
God's creation of humanity? Is this really? Is this really
(19:30):
who we are? I mean, it quite shocking, And in
that moment, I knew that I was going to have
to find a way to offer some kind of help
and support to people who had gone through these life
shattering events. You know, when I spoke to my colleague
(19:50):
and the newsroom, I said, you know, like, what's going
to happen to these people? This person just lost the children,
you know, when the building fell on them. And they
would look at me like like, why are you even
think thinking that? It's just you know, it's a completely
different shift. And it's not that anybody took pleasure in
watching the death and destruction and suffering. It affected. People
(20:13):
were concerned, and you know, nobody likes to feel helpless,
and watching a lot of death and destruction can cause
you to feel really quite helpless. And the big picture,
but I think that that was a turning point for
me and knowing that I would I had to find
a way to support and offer help to people who
(20:38):
had just had sub Yeah, he had taken away from them.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
It's so amazing. I mean, your life is just amazing
in how You've been able to see things and understand
things and be able to help people. And I want
to continue on that on that thought when we come back,
because there's so much that you're doing now. You're so
incredible and folks, when we get back, we'll continue with
(21:06):
doctor Lori matel and she's got lots of books out there,
so we'll talk about that later, but we'll be back
in just a minute.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Thank you.
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Speaker 3 (23:46):
Hey everyone, thanks for coming back with us. It's Patty
and doctor Lori nadell as my guest today, and we're
talking about trauma and some of the experiences that said
Laurie has had. And I had forgotten that you lost
your house during Hurricane Sandy. I remember driving up the
(24:08):
East Coast during a Hurricane Sandy and how awful it
was when.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
I was up there.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
But you actually lost your home and if I recall
having to climb up into the attic. But in addition
to that, not like there haven't been many of those traumas.
I think that's why you understand it so well. You
I had a home.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
There in.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I don't know if it was Long Island at the
time or a while.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Yeah, yeah, I had my dream beach cottage that my
little girl found, which is ten years old, said Mummy,
can we have can we buy this house? And it was.
I used to joke after a while that the house
called to me, but it was it really was magical,
(25:02):
and you know, you could see boats from the front yard,
and yeah, it's just it was. It was very very special.
And I did a lot of healing work there and
workshops there, you know, and it was this very meditative space.
And when the when the storm stewage started and and
this this is all you'll love this story because six
(25:25):
months before Hurricane Sandy, my dad came to me in
a dream and he had died in nineteen eighty nine,
and he said, Laurie, you need to get more water.
And this was like around at the end of May.
He said, you're going to have an emergency. You're going
to need extra water, so go out and get more
water for the house. Okay. So I went to the
(25:47):
store and I bought a few gallons of water, you know,
and I stored them. And then around the fourth of July,
my my best friend, I think of his my favorite uncle.
He showed up in a dream. He said, you know,
if your dad's up set, you're not taking it seriously enough.
You really don't have enough earth. Something's going to happen
and it's going to be an emergency. You do need
(26:10):
to take it seriously and get more water to go along.
Oh okay, I think, well they spent you know all,
it's very hard to reach somebody in a dream from
the other side. I thought, they worked very hard to
get to me. So I went out a case of water,
and I got some more gallons of water, and I thought,
I don't know what this is about. And then about
(26:32):
every day, my dad showed up again in a dream.
This time he had been a dentist. He was wearing
his lab coat and he's very stern, and he said,
you are not taking this seriously. You do not have
enough water for what is to come. And I said
what is to come? And he said, you need more water.
(26:53):
So I went out. I bought thirteen gallons of water,
cases of drinking water. And the night of the storm,
the storm surge because there was a full moon and
a high tide and this megastorm that covered people don't
realize it was a thousand miles of coastline. A million
of us lost our homes. We never heard anything about
(27:14):
this anymore. A million of us lost our homes, and
most of us were like me. We had little beach cottages.
We weren't, you know. It wasn't like like celebrity vlle
like that, like entrance. So the storm searge came in
and it destroyed the town's sewage treat plants. And when
(27:36):
the tide went out, everything in the house and all
of the gardens and all of the land, everything was
covered with fecal matter and oil and raw sewage. FEMA
didn't show up per days. The red crust didn't show
up for days. The water, you know, there was some
kind of announcement went out somehow, word of mouth, don't
(27:59):
use the water to drink the water, don't cook with
the water. And I had water. I was the only
one the block had water that I was able to
give to my neighbors. Was because of the chow.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, that's just yeah. I remember talking to you after that.
It was traumatic.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Traumatic, it really was.
Speaker 6 (28:22):
You know.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
One of the lawyers that I interviewed for of the
five Gifts and one of the pieces that never gets disgusted.
If you speak to anybody who's going through this in Asheville,
North Carolina after the floodsphere. The financial trauma that lingers
after a disaster. You know that the disaster, the natural disaster,
(28:44):
the event. It it's like the first scene, it's the
opening scene in a disaster movie. That goes on and
on and on, and you get luck to, you get
lied to, you get ripped off, you get people. You know,
FEMA tells you one thing one week and the next
week they tell you something else, and your insurance company
(29:05):
tries to cheat you. And then if you do get money,
the bank that holds your mortgage confiscates your insurance check
and puts it in ESCO and makes you jump through
all your soups and they treat you like your I mean,
it really is quite horrifying what people go through in
this country. There is no network, no social network of
(29:25):
support for people who are going through natural disaster recovery,
and the financial trauma destroys people for years, and many
people never ever recover. So I ain't it really.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I mean, it takes that financial, emotional, everything drained. But
you know, before before Hurricane Sandy, you went through nine
to eleven, you know, and that.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Was that was huge.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
You had your home on the coast. The office in Manhattan,
all right.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
My office was in the FEMA zone. I office was
across from Saint Vincent's Hospital, And ironically, you know, I
worked late. Nine to eleven was on a Tuesday, and
I worked Monday nights, and I worked. I left at
a little after nine thirty pm, and I left the
(30:22):
windows open because it was very hot. It's like eighty
degrees outside, and the windows faced south, which was where
the World Grade Center was. And when the after the disaster,
that the FEMIS at a boundary of fourteenth Street. My
office was south of fourteenth Street, and when we weren't
(30:45):
back into the office because only residents were allowed into
that zone. So it was two weeks before we could
go into the office. And we walked into the office.
Everything was covered in that test and that polverized steel chemicals,
tuxans and pulverized human remains, and it was in everything.
(31:09):
It was in the little holes and the receivers of
the landline phone, it was in the plants, it was
in the carpet, it was in the counter. I mean,
so you know, we vacuumed it up and we got
air cleaners and air filters, but it was it was
so pervasive and you could smell it in the street
for a year. It's when we talked to people who
(31:31):
lived through nine to eleven who were downtown. The thing
that we always, you know, mentioned first is the smell.
You know, it's like like like burnt plastic and locals
and there's weird almost like a barbecue smell because of
all the people who got killed, you know, like incinerated, right,
(31:54):
And it was it was horrifying, and I did some
volunteer work down at graund Yere. I actually organized a
holistic healthcare for people at Borough of Manhattan Community College,
which is just north of the World Trade Center. And
it was a few months after and people were having
nightmares and ashbacts, and people who lived in that area
(32:17):
weren't able to come back to their houses because they
were so traumatized. They were camped out on people's sofas,
some of them for a couple of years. So it's
a huge thing to be able to offer any kind
of support and healing to you know, the support staff right,
(32:37):
students who had to had to try to figure out
how how are they going to continue, how are they
going to go back to school? How are they going
to go back right into that area because for years
people were afraid to come downtown.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Right right. I know that we're going to be coming
up on a break here in a few minutes, but
I really wanted to talk about finish up with talking
about long COVID, because you know, that's really been hitting
in the last five years. I mean, you have been
(33:15):
such a blessing to so many people, and I want
to talk about long COVID and how that's been affecting
people in the last five years. So when we come back,
folks on the other side, we're going to be talking
about that.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
So we'll see you.
Speaker 7 (33:30):
In just a minute.
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Speaker 3 (36:04):
Hey everyone, thank you for joining us today. I know
this is you might consider this a heavy topic, but
it's such an important topic because we all go through
trauma at times, and some of us we go through
a trauma once in our life, and some of us
have multiple traumas in our life. And I think that
(36:26):
you know, even given the state of the world and
what's taking place and so forth. I know trauma is triggering,
even if it's not directly affecting you. But I do
want to talk about long COVID because certainly affected one
member of my family. And Laurie, you've really been quirking
(36:49):
a lot with long COVID. So talk to us about
COVID when it first hit in twenty twenty and what
the effects have been and what you're seeing a psychologists
and people's reactions in dealing with long COVID.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
You know with people, you know, people were in shock,
of course, and I mean it was quite terrifying. We
sow not more more refrigerated, more trucks outside of hospitals
and not We didn't see it in New York, but
I know that in certain countries they're just piles of
body bags in the streets. You know, it's kind of
(37:27):
like yes, a flague, yep. And the you know, the numbers,
the fatality numbers for the first year and a half
were horrifying, so you know, there and then there was lockdown,
so there was you know, there was there was a
kind of like a soul trauma or humanity that we
suddenly had this disease that was rampant, that nobody knew
(37:50):
anything about that. People you know, health works were you know,
like wearing radiation suits to walk into to work every day.
And after a few months, So because of their own
experience with chronic fatigue and having worked with people who
(38:10):
have cancer and other catasrophic illnesses ms, traumatic brain injury
over the years, I was aware that there's a psychological
components to being seriously ill and that you know, and
(38:32):
I say this as someone who's experienced it, there is
a stigma against people who are sick. If you were sick,
you were sidelined, you are considered not valuable society. We
worship athletes, young people, celebrities, healthy people. And if all
of a sudden you are too sick you can't work,
(38:54):
or you can't cook dinner because you can't stand up
long enough to dinner for your kids, you can't drive,
you're bedridden, that is a it's a different kind of
trauma because well, I say, like, you meet three elephants
when you have an illness that doesn't heal, And the
(39:17):
first one, the first elephant, is the loss of control,
the loss of physical control. Your body doesn't do what
you needed to do, you can't breathe, you can't talk,
you can't walk, you can't sleep, you can't eat whatever.
That's the first elephant. The second elephant is loss of safety,
and that's really where the trauma element comes in. You
(39:38):
feel vulnerable, you feel fragile, you don't feel safe in
your own skin. You're worried like what if it happens again?
Or what if I have an accident? Or who's going
to come and help me? And the first elephant, which
is the more complex piece of a puzzle, is the
loss of identity. Who you start to ask who am I?
(40:01):
He am I if I can't run? Who am I
if I can't well? Who am I if I can't
go to work? Who am I if I can't be
a parent? And so I was talking to a doctor,
Noah green Fan, who is one of the leading pulmonary
rehabilitation therapist who is also an MS person during nine
(40:22):
to eleven, and he was starting an online support group
for people who had survived the first acute state of COVID.
But we're now developing weird symptoms, neurological symptoms, dysautonomia where
your heartbeat changes if you move, if you roll over
(40:45):
in your sleep, your heartbeat goes up to one hundred
eighty one hundred eighty five, even though you were previously
in good help or help, or you can lose consciousness,
to lose your balance, basically you have brain fog. Fog
is a huge issue for people with long COVID, and
(41:05):
so we started uh He and Erica, his sisters, also
a therapist. The three of us started the first and
still ongoing free support group for people with COVID, and
(41:26):
people had no they couldn't even talk about this with
people because once you're sick, nobody realizes there's an inner
world that you have to navigate that is no longer
a safe place, and how do you do that? And
so one of the I did well some of the
(41:46):
trauma emotional first aid techniques and you can find these
on my website. The Pulmonary Wellness Foundation put up two
of my workshops on my website which is Lorraine tail
dot com and guided meditations for people here they could
begin to find that safe place, that refuge within themselves.
(42:10):
And I also I also use the Jungian archetype of
the explorer, and I know that for myself. When I
developed chronic fatigue, I was a physically active person. I
was a windsurfer and suddenly I'm like bedridden for years,
and then I discovered that I had been inner world.
(42:32):
And you know, when we're very busy in the outer world,
we don't even and nobody uses the term in our
society anyway, because we're very externally focused, that we have
a whole inner world that we can begin to discover
and we can find resilience, and we can find creativity,
and we can find intuition, and we can be bad
(42:54):
and we can still become explorers. And by reframing that
and also there's a beautiful quote about a sacred illness.
A sacred illness is one that although it takes away
things that you used to be able to do, by
taking those if you wait, if you like activities away,
(43:16):
it gives us the opportunity to look within ourselves and
to develop strengths and resources and abilities we never knew
we had. We can use them to help ourselves and
other people. And you know, that's that's that's been the scene, uh,
for the work that I've been doing with long COVID
(43:37):
people now going on five years going on, right.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
But you know, one of the things that that I
always think about with long COVID is you know when
when COVID first hit, you know, however it hit, I'm
not even going to go there. I you know, I
remember getting I was getting a leap for Israel when
the first cases started coming forward. It might doctor was
just like, you're not going to go, And I'm like,
(44:03):
why can't I go to Israel? And she said, it's
not that you can't go, I'm just not sure you're
going to get back in the country. Unfortunately I didn't
go because it was like three months of a band
of coming back in the country. So we had this,
We had this very traumatic experience that kind of hit everyone.
(44:24):
My daughter being a daughter in law, being a frontline
person as a pharmacist. You know, they stopped bringing the
kids to me because I've always had lung issues. I'm older,
and everybody seemed to be intact.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Yeah, but of dying.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
So so we went through this this time period of drama, trauma,
not knowing what it was and so forth, and then
people getting it and so on. But the thing that
really sticks to me and I really want to talk
about this is the fact that people with long COVID
(45:08):
it may be mild symptoms that may be really heavy
duty symptoms, but the sympathy empathy factor from everyday people
is no longer in there in the beginning, and we'll
talk about this when we come back. But in the beginning,
everybody was seeing what they could do to help each other.
(45:29):
And now it's like, oh, you've got COVID and it's
kind of brushed off. So when we get back, let's
talk about because so many of the symptoms are unseen.
The person's going through it, but other people don't see it.
So folks, when we come back, we'll continue this conversation.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
We're so thankfully important.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
That you've joined us on Healthy Life Network, and Laurie
and I'll be back in just a minute.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Patti Conklin is busy, but she's never too busy for you,
and there are lots of ways to get a healing
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a mind, body, spirit level, from angs to pain. You
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(46:30):
session and embark on your own personal healing journey. Visit
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Speaker 1 (47:42):
If you're wondering if Patty can help you heal, why
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(48:04):
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Speaker 2 (48:13):
Radio Your Way healthylike dot net.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Hey everyone, thank you so much for being a part
of today's show.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
Laurie.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Before we get into this next segment, talk about uh
if you take a few minutes and talk about your
books and where people can find more information about you
so that they can get into some of this great understanding.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
Well, thank you, Patty. I've published eight books. It's hard
to believe one of them when you and I met
was a four time bestseller called Sixth Sense, Unlocking Your
Ultimate Mind Power, and it was the first book that
talked about intuition as a natural mental ability that we
(49:15):
can all develop, whether you believe in it or not.
It's like gravity. It works whether you believe it or not.
It's part of you. It's like your blood type, and
we do have different types and styles of intuition. It
looked at multiple intelligence and it was the first I
was actually the first reporter, if you will, to break
(49:36):
the story of the Pentagon's secret psychic espionage program. And
as a result of that, when they finally to classify
this program, I called it stargate or remote viewing.
Speaker 8 (49:50):
I had an.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
Opportunity to interview about six of the officers who had
been recruited into that kind of men in black kind
of program, and I've gradied with several of them, and
it's fascinate. It's a fascinating subject. But Sixth Sense, Unlocking
Your Ultimate Mind Power is an audiobook now and it's
(50:13):
still in print after thirty five years, and it's available
on Amazon and probably Barnes and Noble.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (50:20):
My most recent book is it's called The Five Gifts
discovering hope, healing, and strength when disaster strikes. And as
I said, it came out, literally came off the press
as the Parkland school shooting was happening. And I'm very
honored and proud that Dan Rather wrote the forward to
(50:44):
my book. And you know, I'm talking about updating it
and kind of freshening it up because unfortunately, several of
the predictions that I made in the opening chapter of
the book, having increased school shootings have increased mass you know,
(51:04):
they called mass casualty events have increased, Climate change has
intensified and gotten worse, and political instability is now something
that we live with on a day to day basis,
and we need And the point of the five Gifts
was that we need to learn from other cultures and
(51:27):
other traditions. How does it? How do how do people
who don't have television, who don't have indoor plumbing, who
deal with catastrophes and wars and revolutions and plagues, and
yet they have balance and equanimity and gratitude and they're
happier than we are, Like, what can we learn from them?
(51:50):
And that's where the gifts come from. That's that was
the point of the five gifts. We don't have the
skill set to deal with long periods of hardship. We
react to everything because we think that any hardship should
just go away immediately. And writ resilience so true. The
humility we need patients, we need empathy, forgiveness and growth,
(52:14):
and those are the five gifts. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
Yeah, let's let's kind of grafting stuff on and they're
all wonderful books, by the way, hope. Let's let's kind
of give people some you know that are listening, that
are going through long COVID. What do you recommend I mean,
support groups, readings, getting in touch with themselves, getting in
(52:39):
touch with their body. What what would you recommends as
first to do well?
Speaker 4 (52:47):
There is a free Sunday night support group you know
that that's been going now for five years. And if
somebody likes to, you know, reach out to me through
my website. There's a phone number. I prefer to speak
to peace people. I can hear your voice.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
Website is doctor Lori Nadel.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
No, it's Nadel dot com. It's just Lori l a
U r I E n A d E l dot
com dot com. And there's a phone number to contact me.
I prefer that because you know, we we make a
much stronger connection voice to voice than we do. Yeah,
and I'll get the I'll get the information, uh, how
(53:29):
to register for that Sunday night support group. I also
have a free YouTube channel which will find a link
to that on my website. And I have meditations to
help you feel calm and safe in your own skin,
which is very important when you're dealing with a chronic illness.
And I think that that's the most important. And you know,
(53:52):
to be gentle with yourself because healing is not a
straight line. And really we don't really this is a
this is a new disease. We don't need you know,
the medicine, the field of medicine doesn't really understand long
COVID and thirty three million people that we know of
who have long COVID or really a forgotten population. You know,
(54:15):
they's are abandoned. And that because you're making it up
or overreacting is because you have been abandoned. And the pharma,
big pharma obviously field there's not enough money in developing
you know, conventional treatments and so there are things like
(54:36):
adding electrolytes to your water wearing compression garments and learning.
Stress management is very important because stress triggers inflammation, and
inflammation triggers long COVID flare ups. And that's science. And
so you can go to go to my YouTube channel,
(54:57):
I have some short meditation, some longermented pation. Know what
your stress triggers are, and be kind to yourself.
Speaker 3 (55:06):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's so important. And I think to
be kind to yourself because we are really good at.
Speaker 4 (55:15):
Just plamming ourselves.
Speaker 3 (55:16):
You know, I should, I could have, I would have,
you know, be the judgment that we pass on ourselves
that what's wrongs?
Speaker 4 (55:26):
You know, I should be better by now, and you
know we're harsh. Judgment.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
The judgment is just so much of a chance challenge
for people. So give yourself grace, smoke, you know, really
take time to give yourself grace to know, you know,
to to know that you're going through something that we
really don't understand. Your body is amazing. Thank it every
(55:56):
day for healing. Even if you don't feel like your
symptoms are getting better. Thank you every day it will
listen and and just help yourself get through the traumas
in your life, no matter what they are, because we
all have them, and yeah, there's just so many great
(56:17):
releases and great things that we can be doing with it.
So just be grace, being grace, be in touch with
LORI because you really mean goodness, You've had quite a
lifetime of these and I think it probably just regenerates
into creating and awesome, an awesome database in your mind
(56:46):
of how I have a.
Speaker 4 (56:47):
Lot of resources for people. A lot of them are
available on the website. I'm also a medical reiki master
and for animals and distress and people, so they can
get on that website. Animal Ricky planet dot com. Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah,
you know, feel free to call and ask me how
(57:09):
I can help. Okay.
Speaker 3 (57:11):
I so appreciate you coming on the show today and
just sharing your knowledge and experiences and information.
Speaker 4 (57:18):
I love you dearly. I'm glad you have called.
Speaker 3 (57:22):
You friends for the last thirty years, and we'll get
you back on So thank you so much, folks, thank
you so much for listening, and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 4 (57:34):
Oh, thank you.
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