September 19, 2025 • 18 mins
The Securities and Exchange Commission voted on Wednesday to approve proposed rule changes by three national securities exchanges, enabling them to adopt generic listing standards for new cryptocurrency and other spot commodity exchange-traded products. The commission vote removes the last remaining hurdle to dozens of new spot ETFs tied to cryptocurrencies ranging from solana to XRP.
~This Episode is Sponsored By Coinbase & Sui~
Buy $50 & Get $50 for getting started on Coinbase➜ https://bit.ly/CBARRON
Sui delivers the benefits of Web3 with the ease of Web2 - Visit ➜ https://bit.ly/SuiWebsite
Guest: James Seyffart, CFA, CAIA ETF Research Analyst Bloomberg Intelligence
00:00 Intro
00: 10 Sponsor: Coinbase
00:45 Coinbase in DC
02:00 Brian Armstrong vs JP Morgan
04:14 Ethereum & Wall Street
05:40 Bitcoin ETF rotation into Ethereum?
07:15 ETF floodgates now open
08:35 XRP ETF launch
10:45 Altcoin ETF apetite
11:45 Thoughts on the FOMC
13:45 David Tepper: Are we heading towards a disaster?
14:20 2026 predictions
17:45 Outro
#Crypto #Bitcoin #XRP
~Crypto ETF Floodgates Open!🚨Bloomberg Intelligence INTERVIEW🔥~
⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺
~This Episode is Sponsored By Coinbase & Sui~
Buy $50 & Get $50 for getting started on Coinbase➜ https://bit.ly/CBARRON
Sui delivers the benefits of Web3 with the ease of Web2 - Visit ➜ https://bit.ly/SuiWebsite
Guest: James Seyffart, CFA, CAIA ETF Research Analyst Bloomberg Intelligence
00:00 Intro
00: 10 Sponsor: Coinbase
00:45 Coinbase in DC
02:00 Brian Armstrong vs JP Morgan
04:14 Ethereum & Wall Street
05:40 Bitcoin ETF rotation into Ethereum?
07:15 ETF floodgates now open
08:35 XRP ETF launch
10:45 Altcoin ETF apetite
11:45 Thoughts on the FOMC
13:45 David Tepper: Are we heading towards a disaster?
14:20 2026 predictions
17:45 Outro
#Crypto #Bitcoin #XRP
~Crypto ETF Floodgates Open!🚨Bloomberg Intelligence INTERVIEW🔥~
⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's dive into some topics today around ETFs and also
the impact of what happened with the FED yesterday. It's
going to be a good one. My name is Paul Barron.
Welcome back into the show. I want to thank our sponsor,
and that is Coinbase. This is where you guys can
get started in crypto. And by the way, if you
haven't applied for early access to the coin based credit card,
you can do that as well, earning up to four
percent back in bitcoin on every purchase.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
So check it out.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You guys can go from there. Listen, we've had James
Seyfert on the show before. I wanted to welcome him
back in coming in from Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
How are you, James, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
How are you doing, Paul, happy to be back.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, nice to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Listen, a lot has happened yesterday with the FED. We're
going to break into all of that. Before I dive
INTOTO what's happening there, I want to go over to
what's going on in DC, and that is this right here.
Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong says he's in DC working to
get crypto market structure passed. This, of course, could change
things up a lot, and if you look at not
(00:57):
only that, and what he just announced yesterday or I
guess here early, was that they're getting ready to get
into allowing you to earn some more yields on lending
your USDC. So a lot of things active right now
in the markets. What is your take on how DC
is responding to all these new innovations, especially around market structure.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I feel like in the
crypto world everyone's screaming that they're moving too slowly, but
if like you know how fast things usually work down there,
it's like moving really fast. I mean things are moving
really quickly. Obviously they're pushing we get the stable coin
build a Genius act they went through, they're working on clarity,
the big news yesterday with ETFs and the generic listening
centers which we're going to get into. I mean, it's
(01:40):
moving quickly, and they're moving strongly in the direction that
most people in this space would like them to go.
So I mean, as far as like normal peoples, are
they moving fast. I guess not. I'd spend a few
months and not a lot has change, but there's enough
changing and things are moving fast enough that people should
be very grateful for what's happening right now.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
It is very bullet I want to play a clip
for you. This is Brian Armstrong talking about where he
sees the market heading. Obviously this is Coinbase's position. Let's
go ahead and play that one.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
We're trying to do. We're trying to create more economic
freedom in the world and update the financial system.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
At the heart of the debate, banks want to ban
crypto exchanges like coinbase from offering rewards to customers. Treasury
Department report found six point six trillion could be transferred
from bank deposits to stable coins, driven in part by
consumers trying to get the best bang for their buck.
In JP Morgan chases. Jamie Diamond was also on Capitol
(02:35):
Hill yesterday, but he told me that he's not against crypto,
and so what banks are saying is, hey, if you
could just chap make that change, close that loophole, we'd
appreciate that. Crypto of course wants to make sure that
it's keeping open and really this is the big tension point.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
So James, what do you think is going to happen here?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Do you think we'll get some relief on Maybe banks
actually offering some yields here.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
What's your thoughts on this?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, right now, the loophole,
I don't know how you close that loophole, like offering
sorts of words with like only focusing on these stable
coins versus the banks, Like it's going to be very
hard to do that. And honestly, like you saw, I
don't remember which FED governor, but one of the FED
governors basically came out and said, our job is not
to protect banks from competition. Right, So, yeah, I think
(03:22):
I think ultimately I hope that this loophole reains open. Honestly,
I think I think it like I would prefer to
see it like explicit that they can actually offer interest
through these these stable coins. Right. So my personal view
is I really hope this doesn't happen. I won't say.
I'm not a DC insider though, so I don't know
how it's going to play out in the bank lob.
It is obviously very powerful, and they're pushing hard to
prevent this because they see this as a threat. But
(03:42):
at the end of the day, I mean, I don't
I don't think it's really going to be that impactful
to most of the banking industry anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's interesting when you mean not impactful, because it's going
to take a while for this to play out, or
do you think that it won't happen.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I think it'll take a long time for this to
play out.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I mean banks.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, they're going to be in this industry no matter
what you do, no matter how you slice it, They're
gonna they're gonna get into this and slice it up themselves.
So we're so early in figuring out exactly how this
is all exactly on the line.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, well, listen, Tom Lee, one of the proponents of blockchain,
is now out there saying, hey, Wall Street's preparing to
build its core infrastructure on eth. He calls it the
backbone of global finance. What is your take on what
Tom's been doing, because obviously he is he's got a
you know, he's got a dog in.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
The hunt with B M and R. But he is
out there, man, he is out there just preaching. What
are what are your thoughts about this?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah? I actually so. I was at the future Proof conference,
which is a big trad fire conference for wealth advisors,
and I actually was on stage after Tom. I had
to follow him and I was somewhat tokenization. I got
to talk with him for a little while about this.
I mean, he's so extremely bullish on this entire like
tokenization realm of things. Right. Yeah, he's putting his money
(04:59):
where a mouth is. I don't know how successful it's
going to be, but I mean I can tell you
right now the money is pouring in both from these
dat coos, these digitalish of treasury companies, and money was
pouring to the ETFs. I mean, if you look at
the etherory of metfs in the US alone, the spot ETFs,
they've taken in about nine billion since the end of June,
So in total, since they launched last July, they've taken
in about fourteen billion. Nine of that came in the
(05:21):
last like less than three months. So the narrative shift,
the momentum trending is is obviously very strong towards towards
eth and part of that Tom Lee and others are
definitely to blame or can take credit for for at
least what's happening in my view.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Rotation right now with inflows e versus Bitcoin. Do you
think this is just a seasonal thing or is this
a transition between the two asset classes.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I mean, if you look at if you look heer
to date, even still bitcoin ETFs are out flowing ETH.
So's if it's only the last three months that Eth
is And honestly, I feel like Eith got like obliterated
right going into this year, right, like things look good
around the election. Everyone was bullish eth more. So it
made sense that ETH would be benefit more from a
Trump victory because they have a lot more concerns around
DeFi and and all these things that you want to
(06:11):
do on the blockchain, where Bitcoin kind of was like settled,
it's a commodity, it's a digital store value. There wasn't
a lot of regulatory concerns. So in my mind, like
all this stuff is going to be very good for
the likes of Eath, Salona and these other products, not
necessarily Bitcoin, but Eth is the one that got hit
the hardest in the end of Q one and into
Q two. So yeah, I think part of this is
(06:31):
just a catch up trade and people are trying to
get exposure. And also the Eth ETFs came out too
close to the Bitcoin ETFs, like there wasn't enough time
for these issuers and wholesalers to talk about what this thing,
come up with a narrative, and Tom Lee is one
of the people pushing this narrative that it's the tokenization chains,
the chain where stable coin is going to happen, and
it's a chain where Wall Street is going to build
their products in the back of and we're seeing some
(06:53):
of that's now. I mean there's no offens or butts.
You look at some massive asset managers, some big players
in financial industry, they're trying out and building things on Ethereum.
They're also testing out some other chains, but for the
most part, Ethereum is the chain of choice.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
A couple of ETF news items here. Canary Capital twenty
one shares filing for new crypto ETFs. This one is
in reference to launching on suy. So this is another
chain that's been talked about here recently. When you look
at that along with some of the others that have
here been recently launched, is there room for this many
(07:26):
ETFs with all these different assets coming in?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So there is room for all these different assets to
have their own ETF. Is there room for all these
different assets to have ten ETFs like we have for
bitcoin or ten or nine or e whatever it is
for ethereum probably not right. So there's going to be
a long tail of assets that are going to get
crypto ETPs within the next I mean, we just had
the generic listing standards to prove yesterday, but like we're
going to see a whole bunch of these things, like
(07:53):
north of one hundred products related to crypto ETPs launch
in the next month. So I think there will be
a lot of demand for basket type products which will
hold like basically an index version. I think that will
be good for advisors and then some of these other
things that people are going to want to trade these
things no matter what they are, right, So you could
you might have just one ETF or two ets or
something like suiy. You can probably have a couple more
(08:13):
for something like xorp and soul with the way things
are going right now. But you're not going to need
you know, nine ETFs for some of these other longer
tail assets, whether that's you know, like coin or cardano
or you name it. But they're all going to have
ETFs probably within the next couple months.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Hey, your partner Eric came out here with the semi
shock statement. They're talking about the resc the rex Ospree.
This of course is of the ETF for x ORP
heavy turnover in a short period of time. I think
it was like ninety minutes at the time he tweeted.
This is this thing still tracking at this.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Kind of growth right now? Have you looked at the
most recent numbers.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I haven't looked in a little while. But it did
slow down a little bit after initial opening, but it's
happening an extremely strong day. Like it's a very strong
launch for a product. So these products, so the screenshet
you had up before with with this, this this general
listening standards approval. It's related to this in a way.
So the product you were just showing fits into the
nineteen forty ACT wrapper. And what that does is there
(09:10):
was a generic listening centers that were created for products
that fit into the nineteen forty ACT. I don't want
to get too far in the weeds, but essentially that
was a generic listing center. So that's why those future
products were able to launch after seventy five days after
filling your perspectus. That's rex Osprey basically forced Solana XRP
doge into that forty ACT rapper with like regulatory and
legal workarounds, and they were able to launch because the
SEC couldn't stop it because it fit the rules exactly.
(09:31):
And so part of this what's happened with those generic
listening standards is basically like now, even the pure spot products,
the ones that usually have to go through that nineteen
before process that I've talked about many many times, it's
like a two hundred and sixty day long process. You're
going back and forth with the SEC that there are delays,
there's denials. That's going to be gone now with this
generic Listening center. So basically the pure spot products that
are going to hold nothing but the spot underlying asset
(09:53):
are going to have the same sort of streamline process.
They only need to get the perspectives approved. Usually you
had to go through another DIVISI known as division or
training in markets to get your nineteen before approved, which
is like requesting a rule change, and you would have
had to do that for every asset under the sun
that was coming with this sort of wrapper. And I
think the SEC was like, one, we should have had
a streamline process from the get go. We should have
(10:13):
done this already. And two, I mean, we don't want
to be issuing twenty thirty forty page reports approving every
single product that's trying to list a new crypto asset,
Like that's just not something they're trying to do well.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And I think this is good in the sense that
we are going to maybe simplify things around ETFs.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I'm just curious when you look.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
At the appetite because it is a shift right now
in terms of the investor. We're talking to more and
more structured capital, but also high networth individuals that are
looking at these ETFs as real opportunities for growth. So
there could be a big market here. So you and
Eric are going to be very busy in the coming
months and years.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It looks like, yeah, there's yeah. I would say like
I said, I think the index products are going to
be huge for the advisors and people who like don't
want to necessarily actively pick, like this protocol is going
to be better than this one. It might be something like, oh,
I'll throw some in bitcoin and then ethan then maybe
like a basket product or something along those lines. So
how much demand is actually going to be there for
all of these I mean, I don't I can't see
(11:12):
the future, but it's going to be less than what
we saw for the Bitcoin ETFs, which are the best
ETF launch of all time, and ironically enough, now a
month and a year and change into the Etherey METF launches,
those are I shares as etha the Etherory METF one
of the second second best launches of all time. So
I mean, I don't know if this is going to
continue down the line for the next crypto acids to come,
(11:33):
I probably say no, but this this category is going
to grow tremendously, is our vue?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Hey, listen, yesterday we had the FOMC meeting, Bianco's on
here basically saying this was a shambles in terms of
just the situation where one, you know, the fat is
really challenged with a very difficult position right now with
what seems to be rising inflation, and also the job
situation that continues to be in a position when you
(12:01):
look at just Wall Street in general and their perception
of how Powell handled this with a twenty five basis
point cut and looking to what could be another couple
of cuts even though he said more than zero, but
that could also mean one going into the rest of
this year. What is your feeling of how Wall Street
(12:21):
is taking this, because obviously the markets are up all
that good stuff. I went to your tweet. This was
one in reference to a favor of a fifty basis point.
So I mean you're out there working at it, so
you tell me, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I mean so, I actually sit right next to our
rage strategists, so two of them they cover this, and
they were saying the same similar things to what Bianca
was saying. That this was like kind of all over
the place. It was you could obviously point out Moran
on the dot plot that he was calling for a
fifty base cut in a descent. There was somebody that
basically wanted to stay flat or technically I think it
looked like a hike on the dot plot. So things
(12:55):
are all over the place. And I think that's also
because like some of the readings are all over the
place right inflation, people are earned, some are concerns, some
are less concerned about whether or not the tariffs are
going to have a long lasting impact or it's going
to be transitory, if you will. So I think things
are all over the place. And if you just look
at like the inter day pricing on you know, yields
and even the S and P five hundred than Nasdaq
one hundred. During house press, I mean things were shooting
(13:17):
up and shooting down. It was just like the more
he sent kind of signaled that we were going to
get a couple more cuts. It drove everything. And but
I will say, our rage strategists think two more this year,
two more fifty base two more twenty five bases point cuts.
So for fifty total is their expectation right now and
was their expectation going into this so so farther in line.
But yeah, I won't pretend to be an economist or
a rage strategist, so but I do sit next to them.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Okay, hey, I want to play a clip for our audience.
This is more around what does this look like economically
as we start to see these cuts going into the
end of the year.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Let me go to saw too.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
I think the market knows there's another east coming, could
be two more east coming. You know when they eased
after long term capital and then they used to get
into Y two K. I mean, we weren't in a
bad economy. Then the market went a little bit nuts.
I'm not saying the market is going to be nuts now,
but and by the way the other side of that
was a disaster.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
But are you Are you excited about the stock market
for the next couple of years.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
I'm look excited. I'm constructed because of the easing right now,
but I'm also miserable because of the levels. Does that
make sense, all right?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
So basically, you know, he's talking about a little bit
over indulgence here, and you look at credit card depth
piling up. This is definitely serious for a lot of Americans,
and with that along with high prices. Now the Fed's
going over here and cutting. Everybody's worried about this. Even
Peter Schiff came on and said, hey, look here, I
(14:43):
told you so, we're getting ready to get a money
printer engaged again. How do you think this plays out
into twenty twenty six if we do get two more cuts,
is there a market correction coming down the pipeline?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, I mean, I can't pretend to to see the future,
but right now, obviously the market is expecting those two
more cuts, more liquidity, more easy, and obviously that's theoretically
good for risk assets. I mean, the risk here is
is obviously inflation. Tepper seems very pulled up. And then
your term I think he's just worried about the other
side of what happens what you're asking, and yeah, I
(15:19):
don't know. We're we're getting close to the end of
the year here, we only have three and change more months.
So well, I'm yeah, this is a little bit out
of my wheelhouse, I guess, I would say, but it's
it certainly looks relatively positive from that.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Interesting, All right, Well, well, I think the key here
too is if the jobs numbers can get you know,
normalized as we go into it, if businesses actually take
advantage of this, this will have some impact on mortgage rate,
car loans, If businesses, you know, get engaged again in
hiring people, maybe on the flip side for you know,
Q one two for twenty twenty six, we could see
(15:55):
some positive things.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Good thing is eachs will be right there back in
the day.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And the other thing I would say
is like, but there's been a bunch of studies out
now that like the top ten percent of income earners
are like the ones driving all of the spending exactly,
and the sock market returns, and you know, that's that's
kind of way the way the market been has gone recently,
and Also, the thing I would say is like higher
rates were actually kind of a boon for anyone who
had a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Like the yes, the.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Assets didn't get hit nearly as hard as most people
expected them to, and and all of a sudden, so
you're you're at all time highs and you're earning more
interests than you've earned in you know, a couple decades,
and things feel pretty good. If you're one of those
people that's sitting on enough assets to talking about.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Seven and a half trillion in money market, I'm kind
of curious if we start to see some deployment of
that capital as we start to see the rates edge down.
That'll be interesting, especially into December, because that'll be a
hard decision to make. Is redeploying capital at the end
of the year big deal for sure?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I think the number is it's
just shy of seven a half seven point three seven
point four trillion, roughly. A lot of that is fixed, right,
That stuff's not going to go anywhere, But there is
a chunk of that, maybe be a trillion that could
come out and go somewhere else. So people like to say, oh,
it's all money on the sidelines. The vast majority of
that isn't going anywhere. Even if you look back to
two thousand and eight when we had issues with potential
money market concerns, breaking the buck and stuff like, they
(17:12):
didn't see that much in outflows. But when you go
to zero percent, it's certainly a lot less comparatively speaking,
a lot less interesting or intriguing when you're looking at
comparing it to other risk assets, particularly as rates are falling. So,
I mean, that's what it is supposed to do, right,
That's kind of what the FED is hoping people will do.
They'll take money out of those assets and put them
towards risk assets and prop up the economy in very
(17:33):
different ways.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Well, here we go, James.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
It has been good having you back on the show.
Thank you so much for stopping in. I love to
get your take on where the ETF heartbeat is with
you and Eric, so great job you guys are doing
up there.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
But thanks again for stopping it.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Paul, This is fun.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
You bet all right?
Speaker 1 (17:50):
You guys, if you're not part of the diamond circle,
get in right now. That is the additional way that
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on x at Paul Baron. We'll catch you next time
(18:11):
right here on The Paul Baron Show.
Let's dive into some topics today around ETFs and also
the impact of what happened with the FED yesterday. It's
going to be a good one. My name is Paul Barron.
Welcome back into the show. I want to thank our sponsor,
and that is Coinbase. This is where you guys can
get started in crypto. And by the way, if you
haven't applied for early access to the coin based credit card,
you can do that as well, earning up to four
percent back in bitcoin on every purchase.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
So check it out.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You guys can go from there. Listen, we've had James
Seyfert on the show before. I wanted to welcome him
back in coming in from Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
How are you, James, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
How are you doing, Paul, happy to be back.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, nice to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Listen, a lot has happened yesterday with the FED. We're
going to break into all of that. Before I dive
INTOTO what's happening there, I want to go over to
what's going on in DC, and that is this right here.
Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong says he's in DC working to
get crypto market structure passed. This, of course, could change
things up a lot, and if you look at not
(00:57):
only that, and what he just announced yesterday or I
guess here early, was that they're getting ready to get
into allowing you to earn some more yields on lending
your USDC. So a lot of things active right now
in the markets. What is your take on how DC
is responding to all these new innovations, especially around market structure.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I feel like in the
crypto world everyone's screaming that they're moving too slowly, but
if like you know how fast things usually work down there,
it's like moving really fast. I mean things are moving
really quickly. Obviously they're pushing we get the stable coin
build a Genius act they went through, they're working on clarity,
the big news yesterday with ETFs and the generic listening
centers which we're going to get into. I mean, it's
(01:40):
moving quickly, and they're moving strongly in the direction that
most people in this space would like them to go.
So I mean, as far as like normal peoples, are
they moving fast. I guess not. I'd spend a few
months and not a lot has change, but there's enough
changing and things are moving fast enough that people should
be very grateful for what's happening right now.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
It is very bullet I want to play a clip
for you. This is Brian Armstrong talking about where he
sees the market heading. Obviously this is Coinbase's position. Let's
go ahead and play that one.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
We're trying to do. We're trying to create more economic
freedom in the world and update the financial system.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
At the heart of the debate, banks want to ban
crypto exchanges like coinbase from offering rewards to customers. Treasury
Department report found six point six trillion could be transferred
from bank deposits to stable coins, driven in part by
consumers trying to get the best bang for their buck.
In JP Morgan chases. Jamie Diamond was also on Capitol
(02:35):
Hill yesterday, but he told me that he's not against crypto,
and so what banks are saying is, hey, if you
could just chap make that change, close that loophole, we'd
appreciate that. Crypto of course wants to make sure that
it's keeping open and really this is the big tension point.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
So James, what do you think is going to happen here?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Do you think we'll get some relief on Maybe banks
actually offering some yields here.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
What's your thoughts on this?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, right now, the loophole,
I don't know how you close that loophole, like offering
sorts of words with like only focusing on these stable
coins versus the banks, Like it's going to be very
hard to do that. And honestly, like you saw, I
don't remember which FED governor, but one of the FED
governors basically came out and said, our job is not
to protect banks from competition. Right, So, yeah, I think
(03:22):
I think ultimately I hope that this loophole reains open. Honestly,
I think I think it like I would prefer to
see it like explicit that they can actually offer interest
through these these stable coins. Right. So my personal view
is I really hope this doesn't happen. I won't say.
I'm not a DC insider though, so I don't know
how it's going to play out in the bank lob.
It is obviously very powerful, and they're pushing hard to
prevent this because they see this as a threat. But
(03:42):
at the end of the day, I mean, I don't
I don't think it's really going to be that impactful
to most of the banking industry anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's interesting when you mean not impactful, because it's going
to take a while for this to play out, or
do you think that it won't happen.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I think it'll take a long time for this to
play out.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I mean banks.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, they're going to be in this industry no matter
what you do, no matter how you slice it, They're
gonna they're gonna get into this and slice it up themselves.
So we're so early in figuring out exactly how this
is all exactly on the line.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, well, listen, Tom Lee, one of the proponents of blockchain,
is now out there saying, hey, Wall Street's preparing to
build its core infrastructure on eth. He calls it the
backbone of global finance. What is your take on what
Tom's been doing, because obviously he is he's got a
you know, he's got a dog in.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
The hunt with B M and R. But he is
out there, man, he is out there just preaching. What
are what are your thoughts about this?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah? I actually so. I was at the future Proof conference,
which is a big trad fire conference for wealth advisors,
and I actually was on stage after Tom. I had
to follow him and I was somewhat tokenization. I got
to talk with him for a little while about this.
I mean, he's so extremely bullish on this entire like
tokenization realm of things. Right. Yeah, he's putting his money
(04:59):
where a mouth is. I don't know how successful it's
going to be, but I mean I can tell you
right now the money is pouring in both from these
dat coos, these digitalish of treasury companies, and money was
pouring to the ETFs. I mean, if you look at
the etherory of metfs in the US alone, the spot ETFs,
they've taken in about nine billion since the end of June,
So in total, since they launched last July, they've taken
in about fourteen billion. Nine of that came in the
(05:21):
last like less than three months. So the narrative shift,
the momentum trending is is obviously very strong towards towards
eth and part of that Tom Lee and others are
definitely to blame or can take credit for for at
least what's happening in my view.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Rotation right now with inflows e versus Bitcoin. Do you
think this is just a seasonal thing or is this
a transition between the two asset classes.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I mean, if you look at if you look heer
to date, even still bitcoin ETFs are out flowing ETH.
So's if it's only the last three months that Eth
is And honestly, I feel like Eith got like obliterated
right going into this year, right, like things look good
around the election. Everyone was bullish eth more. So it
made sense that ETH would be benefit more from a
Trump victory because they have a lot more concerns around
DeFi and and all these things that you want to
(06:11):
do on the blockchain, where Bitcoin kind of was like settled,
it's a commodity, it's a digital store value. There wasn't
a lot of regulatory concerns. So in my mind, like
all this stuff is going to be very good for
the likes of Eath, Salona and these other products, not
necessarily Bitcoin, but Eth is the one that got hit
the hardest in the end of Q one and into
Q two. So yeah, I think part of this is
(06:31):
just a catch up trade and people are trying to
get exposure. And also the Eth ETFs came out too
close to the Bitcoin ETFs, like there wasn't enough time
for these issuers and wholesalers to talk about what this thing,
come up with a narrative, and Tom Lee is one
of the people pushing this narrative that it's the tokenization chains,
the chain where stable coin is going to happen, and
it's a chain where Wall Street is going to build
their products in the back of and we're seeing some
(06:53):
of that's now. I mean there's no offens or butts.
You look at some massive asset managers, some big players
in financial industry, they're trying out and building things on Ethereum.
They're also testing out some other chains, but for the
most part, Ethereum is the chain of choice.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
A couple of ETF news items here. Canary Capital twenty
one shares filing for new crypto ETFs. This one is
in reference to launching on suy. So this is another
chain that's been talked about here recently. When you look
at that along with some of the others that have
here been recently launched, is there room for this many
(07:26):
ETFs with all these different assets coming in?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So there is room for all these different assets to
have their own ETF. Is there room for all these
different assets to have ten ETFs like we have for
bitcoin or ten or nine or e whatever it is
for ethereum probably not right. So there's going to be
a long tail of assets that are going to get
crypto ETPs within the next I mean, we just had
the generic listing standards to prove yesterday, but like we're
going to see a whole bunch of these things, like
(07:53):
north of one hundred products related to crypto ETPs launch
in the next month. So I think there will be
a lot of demand for basket type products which will
hold like basically an index version. I think that will
be good for advisors and then some of these other
things that people are going to want to trade these
things no matter what they are, right, So you could
you might have just one ETF or two ets or
something like suiy. You can probably have a couple more
(08:13):
for something like xorp and soul with the way things
are going right now. But you're not going to need
you know, nine ETFs for some of these other longer
tail assets, whether that's you know, like coin or cardano
or you name it. But they're all going to have
ETFs probably within the next couple months.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Hey, your partner Eric came out here with the semi
shock statement. They're talking about the resc the rex Ospree.
This of course is of the ETF for x ORP
heavy turnover in a short period of time. I think
it was like ninety minutes at the time he tweeted.
This is this thing still tracking at this.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Kind of growth right now? Have you looked at the
most recent numbers.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I haven't looked in a little while. But it did
slow down a little bit after initial opening, but it's
happening an extremely strong day. Like it's a very strong
launch for a product. So these products, so the screenshet
you had up before with with this, this this general
listening standards approval. It's related to this in a way.
So the product you were just showing fits into the
nineteen forty ACT wrapper. And what that does is there
(09:10):
was a generic listening centers that were created for products
that fit into the nineteen forty ACT. I don't want
to get too far in the weeds, but essentially that
was a generic listing center. So that's why those future
products were able to launch after seventy five days after
filling your perspectus. That's rex Osprey basically forced Solana XRP
doge into that forty ACT rapper with like regulatory and
legal workarounds, and they were able to launch because the
SEC couldn't stop it because it fit the rules exactly.
(09:31):
And so part of this what's happened with those generic
listening standards is basically like now, even the pure spot products,
the ones that usually have to go through that nineteen
before process that I've talked about many many times, it's
like a two hundred and sixty day long process. You're
going back and forth with the SEC that there are delays,
there's denials. That's going to be gone now with this
generic Listening center. So basically the pure spot products that
are going to hold nothing but the spot underlying asset
(09:53):
are going to have the same sort of streamline process.
They only need to get the perspectives approved. Usually you
had to go through another DIVISI known as division or
training in markets to get your nineteen before approved, which
is like requesting a rule change, and you would have
had to do that for every asset under the sun
that was coming with this sort of wrapper. And I
think the SEC was like, one, we should have had
a streamline process from the get go. We should have
(10:13):
done this already. And two, I mean, we don't want
to be issuing twenty thirty forty page reports approving every
single product that's trying to list a new crypto asset,
Like that's just not something they're trying to do well.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And I think this is good in the sense that
we are going to maybe simplify things around ETFs.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I'm just curious when you look.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
At the appetite because it is a shift right now
in terms of the investor. We're talking to more and
more structured capital, but also high networth individuals that are
looking at these ETFs as real opportunities for growth. So
there could be a big market here. So you and
Eric are going to be very busy in the coming
months and years.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It looks like, yeah, there's yeah. I would say like
I said, I think the index products are going to
be huge for the advisors and people who like don't
want to necessarily actively pick, like this protocol is going
to be better than this one. It might be something like, oh,
I'll throw some in bitcoin and then ethan then maybe
like a basket product or something along those lines. So
how much demand is actually going to be there for
all of these I mean, I don't I can't see
(11:12):
the future, but it's going to be less than what
we saw for the Bitcoin ETFs, which are the best
ETF launch of all time, and ironically enough, now a
month and a year and change into the Etherey METF launches,
those are I shares as etha the Etherory METF one
of the second second best launches of all time. So
I mean, I don't know if this is going to
continue down the line for the next crypto acids to come,
(11:33):
I probably say no, but this this category is going
to grow tremendously, is our vue?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Hey, listen, yesterday we had the FOMC meeting, Bianco's on
here basically saying this was a shambles in terms of
just the situation where one, you know, the fat is
really challenged with a very difficult position right now with
what seems to be rising inflation, and also the job
situation that continues to be in a position when you
(12:01):
look at just Wall Street in general and their perception
of how Powell handled this with a twenty five basis
point cut and looking to what could be another couple
of cuts even though he said more than zero, but
that could also mean one going into the rest of
this year. What is your feeling of how Wall Street
(12:21):
is taking this, because obviously the markets are up all
that good stuff. I went to your tweet. This was
one in reference to a favor of a fifty basis point.
So I mean you're out there working at it, so
you tell me, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I mean so, I actually sit right next to our
rage strategists, so two of them they cover this, and
they were saying the same similar things to what Bianca
was saying. That this was like kind of all over
the place. It was you could obviously point out Moran
on the dot plot that he was calling for a
fifty base cut in a descent. There was somebody that
basically wanted to stay flat or technically I think it
looked like a hike on the dot plot. So things
(12:55):
are all over the place. And I think that's also
because like some of the readings are all over the
place right inflation, people are earned, some are concerns, some
are less concerned about whether or not the tariffs are
going to have a long lasting impact or it's going
to be transitory, if you will. So I think things
are all over the place. And if you just look
at like the inter day pricing on you know, yields
and even the S and P five hundred than Nasdaq
one hundred. During house press, I mean things were shooting
(13:17):
up and shooting down. It was just like the more
he sent kind of signaled that we were going to
get a couple more cuts. It drove everything. And but
I will say, our rage strategists think two more this year,
two more fifty base two more twenty five bases point cuts.
So for fifty total is their expectation right now and
was their expectation going into this so so farther in line.
But yeah, I won't pretend to be an economist or
a rage strategist, so but I do sit next to them.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Okay, hey, I want to play a clip for our audience.
This is more around what does this look like economically
as we start to see these cuts going into the
end of the year.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Let me go to saw too.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
I think the market knows there's another east coming, could
be two more east coming. You know when they eased
after long term capital and then they used to get
into Y two K. I mean, we weren't in a
bad economy. Then the market went a little bit nuts.
I'm not saying the market is going to be nuts now,
but and by the way the other side of that
was a disaster.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
But are you Are you excited about the stock market
for the next couple of years.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
I'm look excited. I'm constructed because of the easing right now,
but I'm also miserable because of the levels. Does that
make sense, all right?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
So basically, you know, he's talking about a little bit
over indulgence here, and you look at credit card depth
piling up. This is definitely serious for a lot of Americans,
and with that along with high prices. Now the Fed's
going over here and cutting. Everybody's worried about this. Even
Peter Schiff came on and said, hey, look here, I
(14:43):
told you so, we're getting ready to get a money
printer engaged again. How do you think this plays out
into twenty twenty six if we do get two more cuts,
is there a market correction coming down the pipeline?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, I mean, I can't pretend to to see the future,
but right now, obviously the market is expecting those two
more cuts, more liquidity, more easy, and obviously that's theoretically
good for risk assets. I mean, the risk here is
is obviously inflation. Tepper seems very pulled up. And then
your term I think he's just worried about the other
side of what happens what you're asking, and yeah, I
(15:19):
don't know. We're we're getting close to the end of
the year here, we only have three and change more months.
So well, I'm yeah, this is a little bit out
of my wheelhouse, I guess, I would say, but it's
it certainly looks relatively positive from that.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Interesting, All right, Well, well, I think the key here
too is if the jobs numbers can get you know,
normalized as we go into it, if businesses actually take
advantage of this, this will have some impact on mortgage rate,
car loans, If businesses, you know, get engaged again in
hiring people, maybe on the flip side for you know,
Q one two for twenty twenty six, we could see
(15:55):
some positive things.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Good thing is eachs will be right there back in
the day.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And the other thing I would say
is like, but there's been a bunch of studies out
now that like the top ten percent of income earners
are like the ones driving all of the spending exactly,
and the sock market returns, and you know, that's that's
kind of way the way the market been has gone recently,
and Also, the thing I would say is like higher
rates were actually kind of a boon for anyone who
had a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Like the yes, the.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Assets didn't get hit nearly as hard as most people
expected them to, and and all of a sudden, so
you're you're at all time highs and you're earning more
interests than you've earned in you know, a couple decades,
and things feel pretty good. If you're one of those
people that's sitting on enough assets to talking about.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Seven and a half trillion in money market, I'm kind
of curious if we start to see some deployment of
that capital as we start to see the rates edge down.
That'll be interesting, especially into December, because that'll be a
hard decision to make. Is redeploying capital at the end
of the year big deal for sure?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I think the number is it's
just shy of seven a half seven point three seven
point four trillion, roughly. A lot of that is fixed, right,
That stuff's not going to go anywhere, But there is
a chunk of that, maybe be a trillion that could
come out and go somewhere else. So people like to say, oh,
it's all money on the sidelines. The vast majority of
that isn't going anywhere. Even if you look back to
two thousand and eight when we had issues with potential
money market concerns, breaking the buck and stuff like, they
(17:12):
didn't see that much in outflows. But when you go
to zero percent, it's certainly a lot less comparatively speaking,
a lot less interesting or intriguing when you're looking at
comparing it to other risk assets, particularly as rates are falling. So,
I mean, that's what it is supposed to do, right,
That's kind of what the FED is hoping people will do.
They'll take money out of those assets and put them
towards risk assets and prop up the economy in very
(17:33):
different ways.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Well, here we go, James.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
It has been good having you back on the show.
Thank you so much for stopping in. I love to
get your take on where the ETF heartbeat is with
you and Eric, so great job you guys are doing
up there.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
But thanks again for stopping it.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Paul, This is fun.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
You bet all right?
Speaker 1 (17:50):
You guys, if you're not part of the diamond circle,
get in right now. That is the additional way that
you can communicate with us. We drop an additional email
out to you guys. It goes into not only markets,
but how we're playing a lot of the research in
what we're seeing in the markets in general, so it's
a great place to get additional info. Also follow me
on x at Paul Baron. We'll catch you next time
(18:11):
right here on The Paul Baron Show.
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