September 4, 2025 • 30 mins
The Ether Machine is creating the largest public vehicle for institutional-grade Ethereum exposure.The Ether Machine has raised $654 million worth of ether in private financing, it said on Tuesday, as the cryptocurrency firm expands its treasury strategy ahead of its Nasdaq listing later this year.
~This Episode is Sponsored By Coinbase~
 Buy $50 & Get $50 for getting started on Coinbase➜ https://bit.ly/CBARRON
Guest: Andrew Keys, Co-founder & Chairman at The Ether Machine
The Ether Machine Websiteâžœhttps://bit.ly/TheEtherMachine
00:00 Intro
00:10 Sponsor: Coinbase
00:40 Top 3 Treasury companies
01:35 Andrew Keys & $ETHM background
10:00 Corporate Strategy
13:10 Microsoft story
15:00 Ether for corporate treasuries
16:50 Microsoft adding ETH to its treasury vs buying $ETHM?
17:35 Microsoft XBOX the key to mass adoption?
19:25 Is $ETHM investing in any L2 tokens?
20:00 Why not create your own L2?
20:40 Buying out other treasury companies
23:00 Cathie Wood late to the ETH game?
24:45 ETH already hitting supply shock
26:00 Fusaka upgrade coming
28:15 Tokenizing $ETHM
29:00 ETH Price Prediction
29:50 Outro
#Crypto #Ethereum #ETH
~Microsoft Wants 100% Staked ETH🚀100X Potential🔥$ETHM The Ether Machine INTERVIEW ~
⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺
~This Episode is Sponsored By Coinbase~
 Buy $50 & Get $50 for getting started on Coinbase➜ https://bit.ly/CBARRON
Guest: Andrew Keys, Co-founder & Chairman at The Ether Machine
The Ether Machine Websiteâžœhttps://bit.ly/TheEtherMachine
00:00 Intro
00:10 Sponsor: Coinbase
00:40 Top 3 Treasury companies
01:35 Andrew Keys & $ETHM background
10:00 Corporate Strategy
13:10 Microsoft story
15:00 Ether for corporate treasuries
16:50 Microsoft adding ETH to its treasury vs buying $ETHM?
17:35 Microsoft XBOX the key to mass adoption?
19:25 Is $ETHM investing in any L2 tokens?
20:00 Why not create your own L2?
20:40 Buying out other treasury companies
23:00 Cathie Wood late to the ETH game?
24:45 ETH already hitting supply shock
26:00 Fusaka upgrade coming
28:15 Tokenizing $ETHM
29:00 ETH Price Prediction
29:50 Outro
#Crypto #Ethereum #ETH
~Microsoft Wants 100% Staked ETH🚀100X Potential🔥$ETHM The Ether Machine INTERVIEW ~
⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we'll be diving into Ethereum and we're going to
look at this through treasury companies. And today's going to
be a good one because we'll have a special treasury
company on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You don't want to miss up. My name is Paul Barren.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome back in let's get started. I do want to
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(00:30):
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You guys can't go wrong. Let's get into a couple
of points I want to hit on. And as everybody
is tracking this, the amount of companies that are starting
to move into strategic reserves treasury companies, dat's digital ashet
treasuries is growing and Ethereum, of course is one of
(00:52):
the biggest one out there. Bitmine, you guys will all
recognize some of these top few, and that is Tom
Lee's number one right there, Sharp Blink Gaming.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Of course, that's.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Joseph Lubin, and then you have the ether Machine also
coming right there at number three. So we thought let's
get them on the show and take a little bit
of a closer look under the hood. And if you've
never been over and learned a little bit about the
ether Machine, you can just go over to their website
just ethermachine dot com learn a little bit more about
what they're doing, but their team, their investors, and the
strategy going forward. I wanted to bring on their co
(01:24):
founder today, which is Andrew Keyes, who's the chairman at
the Ether Machine. Great to have you, Andrew, Thanks for
having me, Paul. Yeah, so let's get into the ether Machine.
First of all, great name. I mean, we have to
go and give you your flowers on that one. You
can't miss with this one. Tell us a little bit
about what you guys are doing, what makes you guys
different than what Tom Lee is out there spinning all
(01:45):
that good stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Sure, So maybe by way of background, I could just
give you one second on how I got to the
Ether Machine. I hoped Joe Lubine of Shark Clink build
a company called Census, which is the most well known
Ethereum ecosystem builder created three of the implementations of Ethereum
(02:09):
and also built a commodity pool operator for institutional staking
called DHARMA, which is an acronym for digital Asset risk
Management Advisors. And I got here a bit differently than
I would say most of the treasury companies. One of
the large institutional ETFs reached out to me about six
(02:30):
months ago and asked me to be a market maker
for them, because the ETFs are going to enable staking soon.
And if you followed the ETPs, so their equivalents in
let's say Canada or Europe, they're staking at what I
call fifty percent capacity. So if you have a billion
(02:52):
dollars in a European ETP that is holding ether they're
only taking five hundred million euros worth of that worth
of that billion, and so they're only earning a yield
on fifty percent of the assets. And the reason why
that's happening is due to a technical nuance within Ethereum
(03:15):
called the withdrawal queue. And the withdrawal queue essentially means
that if you were to unstake today, you would get
your ether back and let's call it a week.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
But if God.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Forbid, there was some type of black swan event that
occurred and fifty percent of stakers or seventy percent of
stakers wanted to unstake at the same time, that withdrawal
queue would grow from a couple of days to six
months or even a year. So there's no way to
really underwrite this issue. And the ETFs the only thing
(03:47):
that they can do is basically just stake less than
full capacity. And we're already seeing this in Europe and
that's what's going to happen in the US. So I
started thinking about, well, if we could create an opera
raiding company that could stake at full capacity, and the
ETFs are only going to do what I call vanilla staking,
(04:09):
They're not going to be able to do restaking or
participate in DeFi. I believe that in the example where
the ETFs are earning three percent yield on only half
of their money, so a net one and a half percent,
we'd be able to earn that same yield on all
of the capital, plus we'd be able to engage in
(04:30):
DeFi and restaking, and then Furthermore, we'd be able to
employ some of the financial engineering that micro Strategy pioneered,
such as issuing convertible bonds or preferred shares, basically debt
that's inflating to buy digital assets where you're paying back
(04:52):
cheaper dollars years from now, and you're essentially acquiring the
underlying asset for shareholders that want to exposure in this
case to ethereum. So basically, we SOT set out to
actually deploy capital in this space, and we came across
kind of a paths, two paths, and one thing that
(05:16):
I think is materially different from us, and let's call
it the shell companies, is I was going to deploy
a material amount of my own capital in this. So
I've put one hundred and seventy thousand ether personally into
this vehicle. And when I started looking at this, there
were there were basically two paths you could go. You
(05:38):
could reverse takeover a dying microcap so you're failing biotech company,
you're failing bitcoin minor, you know, pick your poison of
some company that's not doing.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Well and in it.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Or you could create a denovo entity, so a brand
new entity that doesn't have a pre existing operating busines,
this pre existing cap table, pre existing governance issues.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Uh and and.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Basically I started looking at this and and and I
had three calls with three different shell companies. One was
a biotech where the where the CEO wanted to be
paid five million dollars a year to stay on the
board and he didn't know how to spell ethereum. Another
one was a bitcoin minor that was in year four
(06:28):
of a ten year lease of a data center, and
it was ten million dollars a year, you know, for
the next six years.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And I basically, Yeah, these are.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Failing companies with all these liabilities.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
And I was like, there's no way I want this
for myself, as you know, one of the larger shareholders
in the vehicle. And and I got very clear that
doing a special purpose acquisition company a SPAC with the
Genovo merger of a clean LLC was the right way
(07:00):
to go for institutional investors. And so where we've kind
of differed off the bat is basically, we've created a
pristine entity that we find to be extremely important to
institutional investors. And so the Devil's advocation to that is
we're going through what's called the S four registration process,
(07:23):
and S one is the process for an IPO, and
S four is the process of a merger. And basically
that's going to take us sixty days with the SEC's blessing, approximately,
and so basically once that happens, we'll be kind of
full steam ahead. And with that, I think a core
(07:48):
difference is what brought MSTR from a single billion dollar
vehicle to a cent to billion dollar vehicle was not
what's called at the money equity issuance or a t M,
which you may have heard of when when when discussing
these these treasury companies. What actually drove that was the
usage of convertible bonds and UH preferred shares, which are
(08:13):
credit instruments exactly, and and basically hedge funds are that
want volatility and want to acquire volatility. They're not necessarily
interested in buying the common equity of these these vehicles, right,
but they'll essentially acquire a convertible bond. And the good news, UH,
(08:33):
you know, versus bitcoin, Ether has double the volatility of
bitcoin and generates this yield.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
So basically we can we can.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Pay the coupon of a bond, and so furthermore, UH
we're going to be uniquely positioned. If if you've seen
the other shell companies, none of them have actually done
any of those convertible bond instruments or preferred share instruments
because they are shell companies that have to clean up
(09:04):
their books and all these messes. And so while we're
doing very well because basically in private we've been able
to raise nearly two and a half billion dollars not
being a public vehicle yet, So I think that alone
is a testament. And basically, once we're out the gates
(09:26):
of RS four registration process, we're going to be uniquely
positioned as the cleanest vehicle with a Big four auditor
to issue this convertible debt paper. And so basically what
we're optimizing for is kind of larger institutional scale using
(09:48):
the debt instruments rather than what we think could be
dilutive to shareholders rather than a creative to shareholders, which
are the ATMs.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, well, and it's unique because first to a lot
of questions here on that, but I think it's unique
because what we have seen on a lot of the
companies that have gone with the process of acquiring these
kind of these dead on the Vine companies is that
it's mostly more of a retail play versus what you know.
I think your strategy is going to be considerably different.
(10:19):
It's a cleaner product for institutions. Wall Street's going to
recognize it better. That's going to be, you know, kind
of the upside for it. And even if you look
at stuff that we just did a show on this
topic with Peter Thiel and him looking at the value
of what Ethereum is going to be doing more on
a broader basis, you guys are in the right place
at the right time. I'm looking at your corporate strategy
(10:39):
here on X obviously acquire e capitalize on additional capital
markets and opportunities, manage the eth holdings, which you know
you explained perfectly, which is very unique.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I was not aware of this issue.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Well, we've seen a little bit of nuance in the
market about this slowdown of unstaking and now I understand
what you're talking about. But steak and restake, I think
that's going to be a huge capacity to really compound
what you guys are doing.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So kudos to you.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Is there anything in here that in terms of the
growth side on that ecosystem and kind of zoom in
on that for you. That is going to really dial
in for future for you.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Yes, so I think we've already hit the three on
chain yield generation. So our north star is growing our
ether concentration per share. So if you add a thousand
shares of our company, let's call it for round numbers,
that would equal one ether. Our goal is a year
from now that should equal one and a quarter one
(11:40):
and a half two ether something larger. And so we're
constantly trying to grow our ether concentration for share. So
on chain we can do that with staking, restaking, and
defive participation. Traditionally we can issue convertible bonds and preferred shares.
(12:00):
And then lastly to your point about growth, Uh, we
we hired for our CEO a gentleman by the name
of Dave Merrin, which was the person in charge of
M and A at consensus. And basically what we have
to think about are things that are ether accretive, where
(12:20):
we could basically acquire a firm that is generating ether,
so things like staking facilities, custodians.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
You know, anything that we could think about is cash
flow a positive positive ether a creative positions. There are
also treasury companies that are trading at a discount to
nav that we could potentially acquire, you know, via a
tender offer. So so we're we're structuring this to be
kind of the cleanest vehicle for institutional adoption.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
All right, So you hit on a lot of good
points there, and I think it right now, it's a
huge race on these digital asset treasury companies to kind
of get to that micro strategy level to where we're
starting to see the adoption curve start to take place.
And to the point that you're hitting on it really
kind of zones in on one area that I know
you have expertise on, and that is the idea of
(13:17):
pitching the concept of ethereum for treasuries inside major corporations.
We did a show on this very topic around Microsoft,
looking at where they would potentially play into the ecosystem
and get exposure. Do you see companies like Microsoft and
Amazon and others saying hey, this is where we need
(13:37):
to go right here, this would be a vehicle and
being able to get direct exposure.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
So I have a very soft spot in my heart
in particular for Microsoft.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Okay, all that tell you a quick.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
One minute detour twenty fifteen was the first year of
Ethereum's inception, and I met with the team at Microsoft
that was to become the blockchain team because there wasn't
a blockchain team yet, And basically I pitched them to
(14:11):
put the Java implementation onto Azure so that they could
basically have a permission version of Ethereum, so every fortune
five hundred could could tokenize an asset and send it
around to counterparties. And we created blockchain as a service
on Azure. We put a two hundred word article in
(14:34):
the Wall Street Journal and basically gave birth to the concept,
consensus and Microsoft to blockchain as a service. And that
was the first time Ether crossed one dollar.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Beautiful beautiful and so yes, so this is a natural
So now to this question, and it was it was
a slightly different question.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Was basically Ether four corporate treasuries, you know, and and
we're talking about let's just not we're we're bifurcating the
ones that are just solely purposed uh treasuries here. So
I mean, I think there are two considerations. One is,
as we actually see smart contract functionality come to life,
(15:19):
and and we've really kind of seen the first iteration
of product market fit with stable coins, Uh, we're going
to require a micro payment of this commodity of ether,
uh to to to adjudicate and compute smart contracts.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
So so basically corporates.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Are gonna need the micro payment of this fuel just
like they need Azure credits or a WS credits. So
that's going to be a small I would say, a
small bucket, just like you know, a corporation is going
to need gasoline in their cars.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
To to to to to ship via you know, goods now.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Now, secondarily, I think what we're seeing now is, uh,
bitcoin has been the opening act, but uh, there is
room for hedges against the US dollar with digital asset
commodities and and and kind of how bitcoin has been
(16:21):
deemed kind of digital gold, either being deemed digital oil
and and and basically it's sitting on balance sheets as
an inflationary hedge or potentially even speculative play.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Mmm.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Well, it's going to be intriguing because as we start
to see major corporations, I think the key here is
going to be staking component. You guys have kind of
solved that with one hundred percent staking option, which is
really different than what we're seeing in the other dats,
so that's a big one. I'm further, I'm intrigued with
the Microsoft connection here because if again we hit on
this very topic and we were talking about maybe being
(16:58):
a crypto strategies specifically to Xbox, we anticipate that's going
to be another play and Ethereum most likely could go
into that, and I'll explain that in a second. But
when you look at all of this kind of coming
to the market all at once, stable coins, the digital asset, treasury, companies,
regulatory framework, everything's lining up. Do you think we're going
(17:21):
to see major companies like a Microsoft and others start
to make their move into these areas hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
You know, one hundred percent and like to your Xbox
like notion, what we've seen children teenagers flock to is
like the gamification of assets and really like we see
this with things like roadblocks, but but they're basically not
keeping the value. If you basically pay the dollar for
(17:51):
the sword and then you kind of lose the sword
or you don't you don't earn the dollar. But now
you have these digital tokens that actually represent a dollar,
and there is a secondary market for trading my sword
for your sword and my shield for your shield, and
and there's actually true value that subscribed to this because
(18:11):
basically they've been it's been a one way street where
you know, we as the consumers buy the video game,
but we don't get to kind of necessarily keep the
assets that we earn within the gaming contours. And as
soon as you know, the first movers start sharing that
value with the consumers and it blurs the line where
(18:34):
the consumer actually could could basically own the assets within
their game and they could appreciate in value. That's what's
never happened, is like the asset actually appreciating in value.
And I think as soon as that happens, kind of
kind of behavioral economics and game theory will kick in
(18:54):
that it's a one way street that you know, once
you own the assets and see them appreciate it, and
then you have the ability to sell the assets. Uh,
that's one way street. And I don't think there'll be
any going back to, you know, the video games of yesteryear,
where all we do is pay for them and never
own the asset.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
And I think we're we're in that phase right now.
The game companies are starting to realize it.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Now.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
The framework you know, the highways are being built literally
as we speak, so that in.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Itself is big. Are you guys buying any L two tokens?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
We're not right now.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
So so basically what we what we've learned in our
journey is that institutional investors are very interested in single
play exposure. Okay, they want a vehicle that is not diluted,
you know, with five different uh you know, digital assets
like a basket. They want specific exposure to ethereum, more
(19:53):
specific exposure to bitcoin, and and like that's simpler for
their investment committee UH to to allocate.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
According Yeah, for sure, why not create your own L
two Then it would so essentially play right into it, So.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
We could create our own L two.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I mean, this is a let's just call it operating
stock company that UH is solely purposed and maniacally focused
on increasing ether concentration per share. We have other vehicles
that are that that would benefit from the usage of
an L two, UH, but but not for this particular
(20:31):
vehicle that is really kind of bearing the flag of
ether concentration per share.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I'm going to go back to a statement you made earlier,
and that and that is you know how you're going
to grow. Some of that will be through acquiring you know,
strategic ether assets in general. If you look at the
current landscape of Digital Asset Treasury Company, some of which
are trading below nav mnav would they be would you
(20:59):
be able to go in and look at a possible
tender offer on some.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Of these before you guys go live? Okay, so that's on.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
That, well, not before we go live.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I think that that would happen after there's this kind
of finite point in time, which is this S four
registration process. Once we're through the S four registration process,
so basically, we have two and a half billion dollars
of committed capital, which is you know, five hundred thousand
ether plus another around three hundred and seventy million dollars
(21:30):
of cash, and currently the ETHM stock is just trading
at the book value of the cash.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
And trust, which is two hundred million dollars. Right.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
We will be issuing shares for that additional ether accordingly,
and once that happens upon our S four registration, this
will be trading at a two and a half billion
dollar market cap. And due to the fact that we
believe that we're going to be able to have a
multiple of yield generation over the ETFs, we're going to
(22:07):
be able to issue convertible debt, which we believe is
very important in terms of generating ether concentration for share.
We believe that both of those factors are necessary for
commanding a multiple two NAB in perpetuity. Right, And we've
(22:28):
seen probably lower lift I would just call it lower
lift efforts where you know, maybe it's there's liability in
these shell companies that have been found out. Maybe they
just don't know how to run ether strategies properly. Maybe
they have a basket approach where they're not commanding a
(22:49):
premium multiple to NAB, and that would be where we
could potentially issue tender offers.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, okay, I'm looking at Kathy Wood's recent move with
BM and R. Here it was one hundred and sixteen
mil of Tom Lee's at their treasuring play BM and R.
And you know, Kathy has been a very innovative investor
in Wall Street. Why do you think she was I
won't say late to the game, maybe just so she
didn't have the vehicle on to Ethan. Do you think
(23:16):
we'll see more investors kind of following her lead?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Now? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:21):
So what I would say, is I don't know if
she's been late to the game. She did create an
Ether ETF, and I would say, broadly speaking, the ETFs
have not done as well as let's call it the
bitcoiny tfs, and I think a big reason of it
is because they haven't enabled staking.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
So she did do that.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
I think Tom has done a remarkable job of acquiring Ether.
I wouldn't have deployed my capital or others investors capital
in a shell company.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I just don't think it's the right structure.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And so I would say that she has chosen to
do so, and you know that's her prerogative. But what
we've seen with respect to institutional investors is the Investment
Committee cares about these types of contingent liabilities and skeletons
in the closets of of I would just say, broader speaking,
(24:19):
these dying shells.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, I think that's that's something that everybody's got to
pay attention to because it's gonna it's gonna be a
little bit of a battle I think on Wall Street
as to which asset is the best to go with,
so intriguing that you guys have gone, you know, kind
of gone that direction. In terms of uh, if you
think about what percent on I'm just looking at the
(24:43):
eight reserve historical data right now. At what percent do
you feel that we're going to be at before we
would potentially see an eath supply shock.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Well, I mean, I think we're already seeing it, right,
I mean, the we've gone from twenty five hundred, you know,
three months ago to forty five hundred you know, back
of the napkin, So that's nearly a you know, a
forty percent increase in the price. And I think we're
going to continue to see this. I don't think we're
going to see a slowing and acquisition because you know,
(25:18):
vehicles like mine are just getting started and are going
to be able to acquire via converts.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
I do think it'll be very interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
As you've seen, the m nabs that are primarily equity
based ATM issuances are starting. What I think we're seeing
is a little bit of exhaustion. Is that people are
starting to think that the next additional ATM offering could
be dilutive to shareholders rather than a creative and and
(25:50):
and basically that's why I believe we're starting to see
some m NAV compressions.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
When you look at Okay, so last question to you,
and I'm looking at just what's going on in the
eth development ecosystem. You're very familiar with this for soccer
right now, Vittallics talking about this maybe late this year.
Are people sleeping on this right now because FUCACA will
really changed things around a bit?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yes, I think that Fusaco will happen this year, and
I think that, you know, broadly speaking, we've seen an
expedition of the upgrades to the consensus layer and the
execution layer of ethereum, and I don't necessarily know if
(26:34):
any more like the big one was the transition from
proof of work to proof of steak, you were literally
having like pick your metaphor, where you were having open
heart surgery and or you were, you know, changing the
engine of the plane while it was flying. I think
that these subsequent increments, incremental upgrades are not as you know,
(26:55):
foundational or you know, as as something like the train
xsition for the proof of work to proof of steak,
which really de risked ethereum. So I don't necessarily think
that that is going to be let's call it a
catalyst for price rise I think much more important to
price rise is you saw Genius Act occurred, which was
(27:19):
stable coins, and so eighty percent of stable coins are
settled to Ethereum layer one. So Ethereum was the largest
beneficiary of Genius. And then furthermore in November you have
Clarity which is market structure, so equities, derivatives, bonds all
being tokenized, and basically the largest beneficiary of that will
(27:44):
also be Ethereum because high quality liquid assets. They are
about two hundred and fifty billion dollars of high quality
liquid assets on blockchains.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Ninety percent of those are on Ethereum.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
So both of these tailwinds, I would just say, in
and the Genius Act and Clarity Act are going to
hugely benefit Ethereum at the application layer. And then the
more applications that are built, the more gas that's used.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
It's kind of its own virtuous cycle.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, all right, So one just kind of a follow
up question here is the idea of tokenizing ether machine itself.
I mean, you're mentioning Clarity Act. Obviously this will be
the big one live here.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Sure, so that's that's gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yeah, So absolutely, we are in conversations right now about
tokenizing the equity it will be on ethereum, and that
is something to stay tuned for.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
But undoubtedly we will be tokenizing the shares.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
We are proponents of dog fooding our own assets and
people do so.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Excellent. Good for you, Andrew.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I mean, with all this good news, we're going to
get clarity act. Obviously we're going to see I think
we have just seen the gates unlocked for what we're
going to see in stable coins. That's going to just
be a no brainer, multi trillions coming in. What do
you think Ethereum's price is going to be by this
time next year?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
What's the theory?
Speaker 4 (29:12):
I easily think within five years the price of ether
should eclipse the price of bitcoin the market cap, So
first and foremost, the market cap of bitcoin will be
less than the market cap of ethereum within five years,
and I think that we easily have twenty two one
hundred x in the price of ether.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Interesting, all right, well, listen.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
What's the tam of the internet?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, well exactly, you can't put it on there. That
is a very good point, and I think a lot
of people sleep on that in the sense of where
eth is right now? For sure, So anyway, we are
here with Andrew Keys coming in from the Ether machine.
Thank you, thanks again for coming in. We appreciate you
you dropping in.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
You bet all right.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
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(30:17):
x at Paul Baron. We'll catch you next time right
here on the Paul Baron Show.
Today we'll be diving into Ethereum and we're going to
look at this through treasury companies. And today's going to
be a good one because we'll have a special treasury
company on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You don't want to miss up. My name is Paul Barren.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome back in let's get started. I do want to
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You guys can't go wrong. Let's get into a couple
of points I want to hit on. And as everybody
is tracking this, the amount of companies that are starting
to move into strategic reserves treasury companies, dat's digital ashet
treasuries is growing and Ethereum, of course is one of
(00:52):
the biggest one out there. Bitmine, you guys will all
recognize some of these top few, and that is Tom
Lee's number one right there, Sharp Blink Gaming.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Of course, that's.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Joseph Lubin, and then you have the ether Machine also
coming right there at number three. So we thought let's
get them on the show and take a little bit
of a closer look under the hood. And if you've
never been over and learned a little bit about the
ether Machine, you can just go over to their website
just ethermachine dot com learn a little bit more about
what they're doing, but their team, their investors, and the
strategy going forward. I wanted to bring on their co
(01:24):
founder today, which is Andrew Keyes, who's the chairman at
the Ether Machine. Great to have you, Andrew, Thanks for
having me, Paul. Yeah, so let's get into the ether Machine.
First of all, great name. I mean, we have to
go and give you your flowers on that one. You
can't miss with this one. Tell us a little bit
about what you guys are doing, what makes you guys
different than what Tom Lee is out there spinning all
(01:45):
that good stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Sure, So maybe by way of background, I could just
give you one second on how I got to the
Ether Machine. I hoped Joe Lubine of Shark Clink build
a company called Census, which is the most well known
Ethereum ecosystem builder created three of the implementations of Ethereum
(02:09):
and also built a commodity pool operator for institutional staking
called DHARMA, which is an acronym for digital Asset risk
Management Advisors. And I got here a bit differently than
I would say most of the treasury companies. One of
the large institutional ETFs reached out to me about six
(02:30):
months ago and asked me to be a market maker
for them, because the ETFs are going to enable staking soon.
And if you followed the ETPs, so their equivalents in
let's say Canada or Europe, they're staking at what I
call fifty percent capacity. So if you have a billion
(02:52):
dollars in a European ETP that is holding ether they're
only taking five hundred million euros worth of that worth
of that billion, and so they're only earning a yield
on fifty percent of the assets. And the reason why
that's happening is due to a technical nuance within Ethereum
(03:15):
called the withdrawal queue. And the withdrawal queue essentially means
that if you were to unstake today, you would get
your ether back and let's call it a week.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
But if God.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Forbid, there was some type of black swan event that
occurred and fifty percent of stakers or seventy percent of
stakers wanted to unstake at the same time, that withdrawal
queue would grow from a couple of days to six
months or even a year. So there's no way to
really underwrite this issue. And the ETFs the only thing
(03:47):
that they can do is basically just stake less than
full capacity. And we're already seeing this in Europe and
that's what's going to happen in the US. So I
started thinking about, well, if we could create an opera
raiding company that could stake at full capacity, and the
ETFs are only going to do what I call vanilla staking,
(04:09):
They're not going to be able to do restaking or
participate in DeFi. I believe that in the example where
the ETFs are earning three percent yield on only half
of their money, so a net one and a half percent,
we'd be able to earn that same yield on all
of the capital, plus we'd be able to engage in
(04:30):
DeFi and restaking, and then Furthermore, we'd be able to
employ some of the financial engineering that micro Strategy pioneered,
such as issuing convertible bonds or preferred shares, basically debt
that's inflating to buy digital assets where you're paying back
(04:52):
cheaper dollars years from now, and you're essentially acquiring the
underlying asset for shareholders that want to exposure in this
case to ethereum. So basically, we SOT set out to
actually deploy capital in this space, and we came across
kind of a paths, two paths, and one thing that
(05:16):
I think is materially different from us, and let's call
it the shell companies, is I was going to deploy
a material amount of my own capital in this. So
I've put one hundred and seventy thousand ether personally into
this vehicle. And when I started looking at this, there
were there were basically two paths you could go. You
(05:38):
could reverse takeover a dying microcap so you're failing biotech company,
you're failing bitcoin minor, you know, pick your poison of
some company that's not doing.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Well and in it.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Or you could create a denovo entity, so a brand
new entity that doesn't have a pre existing operating busines,
this pre existing cap table, pre existing governance issues.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Uh and and.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Basically I started looking at this and and and I
had three calls with three different shell companies. One was
a biotech where the where the CEO wanted to be
paid five million dollars a year to stay on the
board and he didn't know how to spell ethereum. Another
one was a bitcoin minor that was in year four
(06:28):
of a ten year lease of a data center, and
it was ten million dollars a year, you know, for
the next six years.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And I basically, Yeah, these are.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Failing companies with all these liabilities.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
And I was like, there's no way I want this
for myself, as you know, one of the larger shareholders
in the vehicle. And and I got very clear that
doing a special purpose acquisition company a SPAC with the
Genovo merger of a clean LLC was the right way
(07:00):
to go for institutional investors. And so where we've kind
of differed off the bat is basically, we've created a
pristine entity that we find to be extremely important to
institutional investors. And so the Devil's advocation to that is
we're going through what's called the S four registration process,
(07:23):
and S one is the process for an IPO, and
S four is the process of a merger. And basically
that's going to take us sixty days with the SEC's blessing, approximately,
and so basically once that happens, we'll be kind of
full steam ahead. And with that, I think a core
(07:48):
difference is what brought MSTR from a single billion dollar
vehicle to a cent to billion dollar vehicle was not
what's called at the money equity issuance or a t M,
which you may have heard of when when when discussing
these these treasury companies. What actually drove that was the
usage of convertible bonds and UH preferred shares, which are
(08:13):
credit instruments exactly, and and basically hedge funds are that
want volatility and want to acquire volatility. They're not necessarily
interested in buying the common equity of these these vehicles, right,
but they'll essentially acquire a convertible bond. And the good news, UH,
(08:33):
you know, versus bitcoin, Ether has double the volatility of
bitcoin and generates this yield.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
So basically we can we can.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Pay the coupon of a bond, and so furthermore, UH
we're going to be uniquely positioned. If if you've seen
the other shell companies, none of them have actually done
any of those convertible bond instruments or preferred share instruments
because they are shell companies that have to clean up
(09:04):
their books and all these messes. And so while we're
doing very well because basically in private we've been able
to raise nearly two and a half billion dollars not
being a public vehicle yet, So I think that alone
is a testament. And basically, once we're out the gates
(09:26):
of RS four registration process, we're going to be uniquely
positioned as the cleanest vehicle with a Big four auditor
to issue this convertible debt paper. And so basically what
we're optimizing for is kind of larger institutional scale using
(09:48):
the debt instruments rather than what we think could be
dilutive to shareholders rather than a creative to shareholders, which
are the ATMs.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, well, and it's unique because first to a lot
of questions here on that, but I think it's unique
because what we have seen on a lot of the
companies that have gone with the process of acquiring these
kind of these dead on the Vine companies is that
it's mostly more of a retail play versus what you know.
I think your strategy is going to be considerably different.
(10:19):
It's a cleaner product for institutions. Wall Street's going to
recognize it better. That's going to be, you know, kind
of the upside for it. And even if you look
at stuff that we just did a show on this
topic with Peter Thiel and him looking at the value
of what Ethereum is going to be doing more on
a broader basis, you guys are in the right place
at the right time. I'm looking at your corporate strategy
(10:39):
here on X obviously acquire e capitalize on additional capital
markets and opportunities, manage the eth holdings, which you know
you explained perfectly, which is very unique.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I was not aware of this issue.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Well, we've seen a little bit of nuance in the
market about this slowdown of unstaking and now I understand
what you're talking about. But steak and restake, I think
that's going to be a huge capacity to really compound
what you guys are doing.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So kudos to you.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Is there anything in here that in terms of the
growth side on that ecosystem and kind of zoom in
on that for you. That is going to really dial
in for future for you.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Yes, so I think we've already hit the three on
chain yield generation. So our north star is growing our
ether concentration per share. So if you add a thousand
shares of our company, let's call it for round numbers,
that would equal one ether. Our goal is a year
from now that should equal one and a quarter one
(11:40):
and a half two ether something larger. And so we're
constantly trying to grow our ether concentration for share. So
on chain we can do that with staking, restaking, and
defive participation. Traditionally we can issue convertible bonds and preferred shares.
(12:00):
And then lastly to your point about growth, Uh, we
we hired for our CEO a gentleman by the name
of Dave Merrin, which was the person in charge of
M and A at consensus. And basically what we have
to think about are things that are ether accretive, where
(12:20):
we could basically acquire a firm that is generating ether,
so things like staking facilities, custodians.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
You know, anything that we could think about is cash
flow a positive positive ether a creative positions. There are
also treasury companies that are trading at a discount to
nav that we could potentially acquire, you know, via a
tender offer. So so we're we're structuring this to be
kind of the cleanest vehicle for institutional adoption.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
All right, So you hit on a lot of good
points there, and I think it right now, it's a
huge race on these digital asset treasury companies to kind
of get to that micro strategy level to where we're
starting to see the adoption curve start to take place.
And to the point that you're hitting on it really
kind of zones in on one area that I know
you have expertise on, and that is the idea of
(13:17):
pitching the concept of ethereum for treasuries inside major corporations.
We did a show on this very topic around Microsoft,
looking at where they would potentially play into the ecosystem
and get exposure. Do you see companies like Microsoft and
Amazon and others saying hey, this is where we need
(13:37):
to go right here, this would be a vehicle and
being able to get direct exposure.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
So I have a very soft spot in my heart
in particular for Microsoft.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Okay, all that tell you a quick.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
One minute detour twenty fifteen was the first year of
Ethereum's inception, and I met with the team at Microsoft
that was to become the blockchain team because there wasn't
a blockchain team yet, And basically I pitched them to
(14:11):
put the Java implementation onto Azure so that they could
basically have a permission version of Ethereum, so every fortune
five hundred could could tokenize an asset and send it
around to counterparties. And we created blockchain as a service
on Azure. We put a two hundred word article in
(14:34):
the Wall Street Journal and basically gave birth to the concept,
consensus and Microsoft to blockchain as a service. And that
was the first time Ether crossed one dollar.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Beautiful beautiful and so yes, so this is a natural
So now to this question, and it was it was
a slightly different question.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Was basically Ether four corporate treasuries, you know, and and
we're talking about let's just not we're we're bifurcating the
ones that are just solely purposed uh treasuries here. So
I mean, I think there are two considerations. One is,
as we actually see smart contract functionality come to life,
(15:19):
and and we've really kind of seen the first iteration
of product market fit with stable coins, Uh, we're going
to require a micro payment of this commodity of ether,
uh to to to adjudicate and compute smart contracts.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
So so basically corporates.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Are gonna need the micro payment of this fuel just
like they need Azure credits or a WS credits. So
that's going to be a small I would say, a
small bucket, just like you know, a corporation is going
to need gasoline in their cars.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
To to to to to ship via you know, goods now.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Now, secondarily, I think what we're seeing now is, uh,
bitcoin has been the opening act, but uh, there is
room for hedges against the US dollar with digital asset
commodities and and and kind of how bitcoin has been
(16:21):
deemed kind of digital gold, either being deemed digital oil
and and and basically it's sitting on balance sheets as
an inflationary hedge or potentially even speculative play.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Mmm.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Well, it's going to be intriguing because as we start
to see major corporations, I think the key here is
going to be staking component. You guys have kind of
solved that with one hundred percent staking option, which is
really different than what we're seeing in the other dats,
so that's a big one. I'm further, I'm intrigued with
the Microsoft connection here because if again we hit on
this very topic and we were talking about maybe being
(16:58):
a crypto strategies specifically to Xbox, we anticipate that's going
to be another play and Ethereum most likely could go
into that, and I'll explain that in a second. But
when you look at all of this kind of coming
to the market all at once, stable coins, the digital asset, treasury, companies,
regulatory framework, everything's lining up. Do you think we're going
(17:21):
to see major companies like a Microsoft and others start
to make their move into these areas hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
You know, one hundred percent and like to your Xbox
like notion, what we've seen children teenagers flock to is
like the gamification of assets and really like we see
this with things like roadblocks, but but they're basically not
keeping the value. If you basically pay the dollar for
(17:51):
the sword and then you kind of lose the sword
or you don't you don't earn the dollar. But now
you have these digital tokens that actually represent a dollar,
and there is a secondary market for trading my sword
for your sword and my shield for your shield, and
and there's actually true value that subscribed to this because
(18:11):
basically they've been it's been a one way street where
you know, we as the consumers buy the video game,
but we don't get to kind of necessarily keep the
assets that we earn within the gaming contours. And as
soon as you know, the first movers start sharing that
value with the consumers and it blurs the line where
(18:34):
the consumer actually could could basically own the assets within
their game and they could appreciate in value. That's what's
never happened, is like the asset actually appreciating in value.
And I think as soon as that happens, kind of
kind of behavioral economics and game theory will kick in
(18:54):
that it's a one way street that you know, once
you own the assets and see them appreciate it, and
then you have the ability to sell the assets. Uh,
that's one way street. And I don't think there'll be
any going back to, you know, the video games of yesteryear,
where all we do is pay for them and never
own the asset.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
And I think we're we're in that phase right now.
The game companies are starting to realize it.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Now.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
The framework you know, the highways are being built literally
as we speak, so that in.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Itself is big. Are you guys buying any L two tokens?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
We're not right now.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
So so basically what we what we've learned in our
journey is that institutional investors are very interested in single
play exposure. Okay, they want a vehicle that is not diluted,
you know, with five different uh you know, digital assets
like a basket. They want specific exposure to ethereum, more
(19:53):
specific exposure to bitcoin, and and like that's simpler for
their investment committee UH to to allocate.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
According Yeah, for sure, why not create your own L
two Then it would so essentially play right into it, So.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
We could create our own L two.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I mean, this is a let's just call it operating
stock company that UH is solely purposed and maniacally focused
on increasing ether concentration per share. We have other vehicles
that are that that would benefit from the usage of
an L two, UH, but but not for this particular
(20:31):
vehicle that is really kind of bearing the flag of
ether concentration per share.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I'm going to go back to a statement you made earlier,
and that and that is you know how you're going
to grow. Some of that will be through acquiring you know,
strategic ether assets in general. If you look at the
current landscape of Digital Asset Treasury Company, some of which
are trading below nav mnav would they be would you
(20:59):
be able to go in and look at a possible
tender offer on some.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Of these before you guys go live? Okay, so that's on.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
That, well, not before we go live.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I think that that would happen after there's this kind
of finite point in time, which is this S four
registration process. Once we're through the S four registration process,
so basically, we have two and a half billion dollars
of committed capital, which is you know, five hundred thousand
ether plus another around three hundred and seventy million dollars
(21:30):
of cash, and currently the ETHM stock is just trading
at the book value of the cash.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
And trust, which is two hundred million dollars. Right.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
We will be issuing shares for that additional ether accordingly,
and once that happens upon our S four registration, this
will be trading at a two and a half billion
dollar market cap. And due to the fact that we
believe that we're going to be able to have a
multiple of yield generation over the ETFs, we're going to
(22:07):
be able to issue convertible debt, which we believe is
very important in terms of generating ether concentration for share.
We believe that both of those factors are necessary for
commanding a multiple two NAB in perpetuity. Right, And we've
(22:28):
seen probably lower lift I would just call it lower
lift efforts where you know, maybe it's there's liability in
these shell companies that have been found out. Maybe they
just don't know how to run ether strategies properly. Maybe
they have a basket approach where they're not commanding a
(22:49):
premium multiple to NAB, and that would be where we
could potentially issue tender offers.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, okay, I'm looking at Kathy Wood's recent move with
BM and R. Here it was one hundred and sixteen
mil of Tom Lee's at their treasuring play BM and R.
And you know, Kathy has been a very innovative investor
in Wall Street. Why do you think she was I
won't say late to the game, maybe just so she
didn't have the vehicle on to Ethan. Do you think
(23:16):
we'll see more investors kind of following her lead?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Now? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:21):
So what I would say, is I don't know if
she's been late to the game. She did create an
Ether ETF, and I would say, broadly speaking, the ETFs
have not done as well as let's call it the
bitcoiny tfs, and I think a big reason of it
is because they haven't enabled staking.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
So she did do that.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
I think Tom has done a remarkable job of acquiring Ether.
I wouldn't have deployed my capital or others investors capital
in a shell company.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I just don't think it's the right structure.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And so I would say that she has chosen to
do so, and you know that's her prerogative. But what
we've seen with respect to institutional investors is the Investment
Committee cares about these types of contingent liabilities and skeletons
in the closets of of I would just say, broader speaking,
(24:19):
these dying shells.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, I think that's that's something that everybody's got to
pay attention to because it's gonna it's gonna be a
little bit of a battle I think on Wall Street
as to which asset is the best to go with,
so intriguing that you guys have gone, you know, kind
of gone that direction. In terms of uh, if you
think about what percent on I'm just looking at the
(24:43):
eight reserve historical data right now. At what percent do
you feel that we're going to be at before we
would potentially see an eath supply shock.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Well, I mean, I think we're already seeing it, right,
I mean, the we've gone from twenty five hundred, you know,
three months ago to forty five hundred you know, back
of the napkin, So that's nearly a you know, a
forty percent increase in the price. And I think we're
going to continue to see this. I don't think we're
going to see a slowing and acquisition because you know,
(25:18):
vehicles like mine are just getting started and are going
to be able to acquire via converts.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
I do think it'll be very interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
As you've seen, the m nabs that are primarily equity
based ATM issuances are starting. What I think we're seeing
is a little bit of exhaustion. Is that people are
starting to think that the next additional ATM offering could
be dilutive to shareholders rather than a creative and and
(25:50):
and basically that's why I believe we're starting to see
some m NAV compressions.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
When you look at Okay, so last question to you,
and I'm looking at just what's going on in the
eth development ecosystem. You're very familiar with this for soccer
right now, Vittallics talking about this maybe late this year.
Are people sleeping on this right now because FUCACA will
really changed things around a bit?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yes, I think that Fusaco will happen this year, and
I think that, you know, broadly speaking, we've seen an
expedition of the upgrades to the consensus layer and the
execution layer of ethereum, and I don't necessarily know if
(26:34):
any more like the big one was the transition from
proof of work to proof of steak, you were literally
having like pick your metaphor, where you were having open
heart surgery and or you were, you know, changing the
engine of the plane while it was flying. I think
that these subsequent increments, incremental upgrades are not as you know,
(26:55):
foundational or you know, as as something like the train
xsition for the proof of work to proof of steak,
which really de risked ethereum. So I don't necessarily think
that that is going to be let's call it a
catalyst for price rise I think much more important to
price rise is you saw Genius Act occurred, which was
(27:19):
stable coins, and so eighty percent of stable coins are
settled to Ethereum layer one. So Ethereum was the largest
beneficiary of Genius. And then furthermore in November you have
Clarity which is market structure, so equities, derivatives, bonds all
being tokenized, and basically the largest beneficiary of that will
(27:44):
also be Ethereum because high quality liquid assets. They are
about two hundred and fifty billion dollars of high quality
liquid assets on blockchains.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Ninety percent of those are on Ethereum.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
So both of these tailwinds, I would just say, in
and the Genius Act and Clarity Act are going to
hugely benefit Ethereum at the application layer. And then the
more applications that are built, the more gas that's used.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
It's kind of its own virtuous cycle.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, all right, So one just kind of a follow
up question here is the idea of tokenizing ether machine itself.
I mean, you're mentioning Clarity Act. Obviously this will be
the big one live here.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Sure, so that's that's gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yeah, So absolutely, we are in conversations right now about
tokenizing the equity it will be on ethereum, and that
is something to stay tuned for.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
But undoubtedly we will be tokenizing the shares.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
We are proponents of dog fooding our own assets and
people do so.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Excellent. Good for you, Andrew.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I mean, with all this good news, we're going to
get clarity act. Obviously we're going to see I think
we have just seen the gates unlocked for what we're
going to see in stable coins. That's going to just
be a no brainer, multi trillions coming in. What do
you think Ethereum's price is going to be by this
time next year?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
What's the theory?
Speaker 4 (29:12):
I easily think within five years the price of ether
should eclipse the price of bitcoin the market cap, So
first and foremost, the market cap of bitcoin will be
less than the market cap of ethereum within five years,
and I think that we easily have twenty two one
hundred x in the price of ether.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Interesting, all right, well, listen.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
What's the tam of the internet?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, well exactly, you can't put it on there. That
is a very good point, and I think a lot
of people sleep on that in the sense of where
eth is right now? For sure, So anyway, we are
here with Andrew Keys coming in from the Ether machine.
Thank you, thanks again for coming in. We appreciate you
you dropping in.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
You bet all right.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Guys, if you're not in the Diamond circle, well you're
going to get additional content from us. It's also where
we drop the Baron Market Edge email and that is
my own analysis on what's happening in the market. All
of our research are compiled, even some of our analysis
on our own data points that we look at the
market on. So make sure and just join down below.
It's free, very easy to do, and follow me on
(30:17):
x at Paul Baron. We'll catch you next time right
here on the Paul Baron Show.
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