October 11, 2025 • 17 mins
All xStocks are freely transferable tokens. They can be used in lending protocols, on DEXs, or any DeFi app. Hold them in your own wallet, or buy on one venue and sell on another. xStocks are built to be usable.
GUEST: Adam Levi, Co-founder of Backed Finance
xStocks Website➜ https://xstocks.com/us
00:00 Intro
00:07 Tradfi vs Tokenization
00:37 Ken Griffin Slams Tokenized Stocks
00:26 Why Tokenization is superior
03:44 xStocks Massive Growth
04:52 Access to xStocks
05:30 Permissionless stocks is the future
06:30 Users vs Volume
08:09 Critical Mass Users
08:30 Shareholder benefits
08:55 Dividends
10:05 Ondo & Securitize vs xStocks
11:15 Cross-Chain xStocks
12:36 Robinhood Tokenized Stocks
13:34 Tokenized Silver Coming?
14:06 Tesla Popularity
15:00 U.S. Regulation
16:00 xStocks Token Airdrop?
17:15 outro
#Crypto #Solana #investingÂ
~Solana Tokenized Stocks vs TradFi🔥xStocks INTERVIEW~
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GUEST: Adam Levi, Co-founder of Backed Finance
xStocks Website➜ https://xstocks.com/us
00:00 Intro
00:07 Tradfi vs Tokenization
00:37 Ken Griffin Slams Tokenized Stocks
00:26 Why Tokenization is superior
03:44 xStocks Massive Growth
04:52 Access to xStocks
05:30 Permissionless stocks is the future
06:30 Users vs Volume
08:09 Critical Mass Users
08:30 Shareholder benefits
08:55 Dividends
10:05 Ondo & Securitize vs xStocks
11:15 Cross-Chain xStocks
12:36 Robinhood Tokenized Stocks
13:34 Tokenized Silver Coming?
14:06 Tesla Popularity
15:00 U.S. Regulation
16:00 xStocks Token Airdrop?
17:15 outro
#Crypto #Solana #investingÂ
~Solana Tokenized Stocks vs TradFi🔥xStocks INTERVIEW~
⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺
Join our community!
Diamond Circle Email (FREE)➜ https://bit.ly/pbnmembership
Private Telegram Group (FREE) ➜ https://t.me/+nISqoMxrok40NTcx
Subscribe on YouTube ✅ https://bit.ly/PBNYoutubeSubscribe
X/Twitter 📱 http://bit.ly/PBNtwitter
Get official PBN merch! ➜ https://merch.paulbarronnetwork.com/
~ The Best Self Custody Wallet ➜ https://tangem.com/en/ Use Code PBN for Additional Discounts!
~ The Best Crypto Exchange ➜ Coinbase, get up to $200 in crypto - coinbase-consumer.sjv.io/BARRON
~ Looking for the best tax havens for Crypto? Free Month with iTrust Capital ➜ Use PROMO CODE - PAUL BARRON https://rebrand.ly/PAULBARRON
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we're going to dive into token is stocks and
how this could be changing the entire financial system. You
don't want to miss it. Let's just jump in real quick.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I do have a.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Guest today and it is the CEO and co founder
of backed Finance. You guys will know as x stops.
So welcome in Adam. How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm good, I'm good. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Obviously there is a big, i won't say argument, but
consideration between traditional finance and what's going on with obviously
within X stocks and what we'll see around token is stocks.
I want to go to a clip real quick, play
this for you and then get your opinion of what
Ken Griffin had to say. Take a look, Ken, talk to.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Me about the tokenization push. I mean, I'm going to
tell you what I say.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
What a great opportunity for shysters. Let's find a new
way for retail America to just get absolutely host. The
US securities market is extraordinarily efficient. I love the members
of the tokenization community. Oh, it's so expensive to trade today.
I don't even know what my annual DTCC fees are.
(01:08):
There so low, great transparency in our companies. There's been
very little corporate fraud in the United States, not just
corporate profit, but consumer value created by Apple is stunning.
That is when a capitalist system is working for citizens,
and tokenization is not part of that story.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay, so I'm not going to respond to that. I'm
gonna let you Adam respond to that real quickly. What
do you think the kids kid's statement there?
Speaker 4 (01:35):
You know, I don't want to clash too much, but
I will say that, first, the world is not just
the US.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I know people in the US are very US centric,
and I can appreciate that, and I understand that, of course,
but there are many people around the world today that
don't have good access to the market. And I think
this is the first and outmost important thing that we're doing,
to be honest, democratizing in a way kind of access
(02:02):
to a wealth accumulation. So that's something that I think,
you know, is not existing well today in the world,
and I don't think anyone can debate that now whether
or not the market itself also for institutionals and in
the US today can also be let's say more efficient
(02:23):
in a way. I think, yes, you know, it took
them forty years to go from t plus two to
T plus one, where.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
In crypto we're doing atomic settlements.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
So I actually see a lot of similarity between stable
coins and tokenized equities.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Stable Coin started.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
As more of a crypt native thing and then went
more to accessibility to dollars around the world, and now
in a way it's coming back more of an infrastructure play,
even for companies like Stripe and Visa and master.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Cup, right exactly.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I think the same will happen when tokenize equities. You know,
I'm not saying that the current infrastructure today for the
average US retail is not good. You know, Robbin the
accounts work pretty well, you know, until they loon. We've
seen we've seen that also lately. But you know, I
think this is a very kind of US centric kind
of view. Tech Wise, you cannot argue that the current
(03:17):
infrastructure is as good as as scrypto rails.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
You know, that's just a tape perspective.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, And you know, when you look at a lot
of these Wall Street types, it seems like whether it's
Ken Griffy, Jamie Diamond, you got to look even Larry Finger.
I mean, they're all talking their book and they all
have a lot to lose. For a transition in a
market that eventually is going to be and happen the
way that we think it is and that is going
to be coming in terms of token is securities and
(03:44):
what this might look like. If you look at your
overall transaction volume right now in xdox reaching now a billion,
do you think this is going to explode in the
near future or do you think this is going to
take time to grow?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yeah, well that's say billion on and you can see
five billion on the left or plus plus tax again
going back to markets like stable coins and digital like
token aze, gold and others. This is creating new financial
primitives on chain. It's not going to whatever, fifty billion,
one hundred billion in three maths. Okay, that's not kind
(04:19):
of the kind of market it is. But we definitely
see the demand. We definitely secret the growth, We see
the excitement and the interest. We're building something that I
think is robust enough to grow into these numbers. And
you know, if you look back the time it took
to you know, for Teter, I think to go to
three million and then ten billion for sure. Yeah, it's
(04:39):
it's it's geometric growth, right, It takes you like a
certain time to go from one million to ten and
then from the same time to go from ten to
one hundred and then a billion and then to ten billion.
That's what I assume, and that's what I think you
know will happen in this market as well well.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And if you look at just the uptake that we've
seen with xtox obviously available on phantom, this has been
one of the biggest reasons now trading obviously within the
Salana ecosystem. We'll talk about that in a minute, because
that in itself I think has kind of created a
pretty big opportunity because it's still very early in terms
of how token is stocks are being done. But here's
(05:14):
the cool thing. I was looking at this right here.
You guys posted this out in terms of access by
bit seventy million users gate thirty million cracking. You can
kind of see the lineup here. It's not going to
be long before we start to see some pretty big
uptake on this for sure. Yeah, when you look at
Ken Griffin's position from a KYC standpoint versus a non
(05:37):
KYC standpoint, make the case for non KYC.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
To be honest.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
For me, I think permission assets are just not very interesting,
you know, I'm like kryptonative. I don't think stable coins
would have succeeded if they were KYC right, right, It's
just not It just doesn't work. It's much much harder
to grow, and it doesn't benefit from the inter probability
of crypto.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
And I believe that the future is permissionless.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
No doubt, permissionless is the way to go. I'm a
big believer that, you know, the non KOYC route will take.
The concern I have right now is this transition period
between old finance traditional finance and what this will be
in terms of next generation finance, which is where I
think we are right now, a little bit in the middle.
How long that will take is the real question mark.
(06:27):
If you look at token is stocks in general and
this will this will be a good question for you.
And if you compare right now, this is just showing
by platform right there, is it more important in terms
of total value or do you feel like it's more
important by active addresses the actual people that's out there.
(06:48):
This is showing that what do you think.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
I can I can tell you that you know if
you go back to the give an analytics that we have before.
My most important kind of KPI is unique holders. That's
the most important thing. I think Exos just crossed thirty
four thousand unique holds. You know, you need people to
kind of engage with them and trust them, and you
need to create a network effect around them.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And that's you know, that takes.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Time for a big player, you know, like black Hawk,
or it doesn't matter right to create something with a
huge kind of am for a product. You know, for them,
a billion is nothing, right, so it doesn't really it
doesn't say anything. And you can have whatever one hundreds
of millions held by.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
A single entity. We've seen this also early on.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
You know, we've people have been talking about talking I
securities for a long time. We think we've seen banks
like something there in a way issue the debt or
bonds where you had basically one holder.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
It went from one pocket to the other of the bank.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So it's not interesting, right, It's it's basically them just
saying that or doing some crypto kind of or blockchain experiments,
you know, and like to have their own kind of
crypto people or blockchain people and brag about it. But
in the end, if you really want to bring it
into the messes and create a.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Real product, that people actually use around the world.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Right, what do you think critical mass would be? I'm
looking at here at your total unique holders, as you
said right there, thirty four thousand. Where would critical mass
happen for you? Do you think it's one hundred thousand
users a quarter of a million? What do you think
that would be?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I would say in the hundreds of thousands. Yes, that's
kind of crettical mess. Indeed.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, do most people care about shareholder rights like what
you see in traditional finance or just pure and simple
price I.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Think most people care mostly about financial exposure. You know,
they care about things like dividends or other things, but
mostly financially like less people that I care about voting rights.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Let's see you just mentioned dividends. How does this work
with x stox with if you have dividends within a stock,
how does that play out?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Where does that go?
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Actions is a very interesting kind of thing, right, because
you were bridging the old traditional finance into crypto and
these two just in many cases just doesn't it doesn't match. Right.
There are things that doesn't work the same tech wise
or or or the way that just uxys as people
expect things to work right and dividends.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I think it's one of them, although they are whatever.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Like at is something corporate actions that you can think of,
but dividends is probably the most important thing along with splits.
The way we choose is kind of very basing, similar
to an et F that is doing kind of accumulation
or drip I think they call it in the US. Basically,
when we receive and we buy more more shares, and
(09:45):
then we rebase the token so that people now have
more tokens I see.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Okay, so it's kind of bled into the system, which
creates kind of a better benefit for the user. Okay,
perfect correct.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Look, but the that is that we want to pass
the financial basically, you know, every financial value to the
end user.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
That would be interesting because obviously there's some tax benefits
there in playing it that way. I'm also looking at
a comparison right here. This is just a reference to
a tweet you had accessible for the people. There's a
statement here complying for institutions. You look at that and
if you kind of compare this to say Onto or Securitize,
which would be the other platforms that are working more
(10:26):
on the institutional side of things. Is it more risky
than going that route. Or do you feel like xdox
is starting to create its own security itself.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
I think we're you know, I think we're creating our
own brand, and I'm less to be honest in general,
I try less to look at what others are doing.
We understand how the product should look like and how
the market is expecting the product to behave, and also
what we think about regulatory and we've done you know,
we've been doing this for several years, and I think
(10:56):
we have good understanding of how regulation works, and we've
done I think the most extensive regulatory work in the
space by far. Our products are basically IFI two great
yere right, and we have a full perspectives like an
S one in the US for example, for our products,
we can stay behind this like it when.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
You look at other chains out there. One here's two
Network first two in history talking about and this is
a reference to Apple and this is their first ever
synthetic stock purchase now on sweet Network, starting with Apple,
So Apple acts available over there. Do you think is
every chain going to have their Apple version of synthetic
(11:38):
stocks or do you think this is something eventually you
guys will look at cross chain, and.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
We started the X stalks on Soana, which is great.
Has been absolutely amazing with the SOA Foundation and the
community around Soana, to be honest, and we're very happy
about this choice. And now we actually launched on a
feu and recently so the tokens are also on a
few and we're planning other other changes as well.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
You know, I think there's going to.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Be basically what we're building a native bridge so that
you can go, you know, from chain to chain. So definitely,
I don't think it'll be you know, there's no DC
for each chain, right, there's one US DC and you
can basically move it.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
That's that's how I see the.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Future well, and I think, you know, you have to
look at the opportunity here in terms of growth, which
is if this really starts to take off to the
scale that you're talking about, I think a lot of
these key chains are really going to be in a
position to start offering these which is only going to
expand token ised securities as a whole. Speaking of that robinhood,
(12:39):
once they launch tokenized stocks, how what happens to X
stocks at that time? What happens to token iszed securities
want a behemoth like Robinhood, who has a much different
you know, profile in terms of their investor than traditional
finance does. What happens after that?
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Until now what we've seen, at least what I've seen,
the Robinhood product are not supposed to be permissionless, which
is I said, I think is less.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Interesting for the market or you know, maybe let me
rephrase that.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Maybe it's a different market, you know, Okay, but the
market that I see as a crypton eightyve, I think
the permission kind of approached that I believe robin Ude
is taking is I think is less interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
So just a different profile in terms of investors that
are going to be looking at that. So it's really
investors going after two different even though they might be
buying you know, traditional finance stocks over on Robinhood. The
question is whether or not they're going to leap into
the token I side of it. I'm looking here at
gold reaching an all time high four thousand. You guys
of course have gold axe available. What about silver? Any
(13:44):
plans for tokenizing silver with silver booming right now in
the market, Well, I.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Can tell you that we're doing another batch of products
right now, Okay, I cannot say if.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Silver is there, and well we'll have a new big bets.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
All right, you're telling me silver's there, that's what you're saying, Adam, Adam,
here's my question. Tesla absolutely killing it. You know, why
is everybody holding Tesla XOC right here? Why do you
think this is such a popular one?
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Well, I think you know, this is a very at
the moment, this is a very retail kind of you know,
yeah product, we know retail like test Line, we know
crypto retail like test Line in particular, So I cannot
say that I'm surprised to be honest, this is very
much what we expected. And you know, you can see
I think we're holding I think there's almost twenty five
(14:39):
million dollars of token eyes like Tesla test Lax, and
over ten thousand holders just for test Lax.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So I think remarkable.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, it is quite remarkable when you look at that.
And I think the opportunity to your point is that
you know that profile of investor matches up so perfectly
with the crypto retail profile that we're seeing. So I
tell I agree with you. Clarity Act could be right now,
very close to an approval if we get it through Congress.
(15:08):
How does that change what's happening for you guys. Do
we start to see a whole bunch of X stocks
starting to make it here into the US markets or
do you think this will just benefit what you guys
are doing.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
You know, I think in general, you know, we've taken
for years, because of the previous administration that has been
very anti crypto, We've taken an approach that was in
a way kind of you know, stepping back from the US.
We've built on the top of European regulation that gave
clarity and kind of avoided US of.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Course clients altogether.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
And you know now that with the new administration and
the very much more pro crypt to SEC, we're of
course engaging and we want to bring axtos to the US.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
But you know, we've been very careful throughout the years.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
We respect the regulation and we'll of course not do
anything before we have regulatory clouds, but we are we're
definitely engaged in that.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I like it, all right, So the future is bright.
Last question I have for you in terms of a
potential token and an air drop, could that be in
the future.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
You know, at the moment, there is no kind of
plans for back to do. To do a token back
is kind of an equity company, which I think suits
the business quite well. You can you can do I
think other air drops of interesting things. So I think
you can do you can still use this mechanism maybe,
but at the moment there are no plans for an
(16:36):
air drop or for sorry for a token.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Well.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
I like the idea is that maybe there are some
other mechanisms for air drops, because obviously, as we start
to see the user base grow, that kind of reward
does so well in this community, as you know, and
it does create into that huge community effort that really
starts to coalesce around something like x stox. So, hey, Adam,
this is great. We're going to contain. We need to
(17:00):
watch this because we believe this is a huge opportunity
for the industry. It's a huge opportunity for crypto worldwide.
I commend you for doing just that, making it more
of an available process of building wealth really around the world.
So thanks for coming in on the show today. We
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Thank you, Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Are you guys make sure and get in on the
diamond circle. We love to get your comments too. If
you like these kind of shows, and you like us
to explore the broader base of crypto, let us know
in the comments down below. Of course, you can join
the Diamond Circle also, just with the link. It's free,
so jump in on that and follow me out there
on x at Paul Baron. We'll catch you next time
right here on the Paul Baron Show.
Today we're going to dive into token is stocks and
how this could be changing the entire financial system. You
don't want to miss it. Let's just jump in real quick.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I do have a.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Guest today and it is the CEO and co founder
of backed Finance. You guys will know as x stops.
So welcome in Adam. How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm good, I'm good. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Obviously there is a big, i won't say argument, but
consideration between traditional finance and what's going on with obviously
within X stocks and what we'll see around token is stocks.
I want to go to a clip real quick, play
this for you and then get your opinion of what
Ken Griffin had to say. Take a look, Ken, talk to.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Me about the tokenization push. I mean, I'm going to
tell you what I say.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
What a great opportunity for shysters. Let's find a new
way for retail America to just get absolutely host. The
US securities market is extraordinarily efficient. I love the members
of the tokenization community. Oh, it's so expensive to trade today.
I don't even know what my annual DTCC fees are.
(01:08):
There so low, great transparency in our companies. There's been
very little corporate fraud in the United States, not just
corporate profit, but consumer value created by Apple is stunning.
That is when a capitalist system is working for citizens,
and tokenization is not part of that story.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay, so I'm not going to respond to that. I'm
gonna let you Adam respond to that real quickly. What
do you think the kids kid's statement there?
Speaker 4 (01:35):
You know, I don't want to clash too much, but
I will say that, first, the world is not just
the US.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I know people in the US are very US centric,
and I can appreciate that, and I understand that, of course,
but there are many people around the world today that
don't have good access to the market. And I think
this is the first and outmost important thing that we're doing,
to be honest, democratizing in a way kind of access
(02:02):
to a wealth accumulation. So that's something that I think,
you know, is not existing well today in the world,
and I don't think anyone can debate that now whether
or not the market itself also for institutionals and in
the US today can also be let's say more efficient
(02:23):
in a way. I think, yes, you know, it took
them forty years to go from t plus two to
T plus one, where.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
In crypto we're doing atomic settlements.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
So I actually see a lot of similarity between stable
coins and tokenized equities.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Stable Coin started.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
As more of a crypt native thing and then went
more to accessibility to dollars around the world, and now
in a way it's coming back more of an infrastructure play,
even for companies like Stripe and Visa and master.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Cup, right exactly.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I think the same will happen when tokenize equities. You know,
I'm not saying that the current infrastructure today for the
average US retail is not good. You know, Robbin the
accounts work pretty well, you know, until they loon. We've
seen we've seen that also lately. But you know, I
think this is a very kind of US centric kind
of view. Tech Wise, you cannot argue that the current
(03:17):
infrastructure is as good as as scrypto rails.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
You know, that's just a tape perspective.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, And you know, when you look at a lot
of these Wall Street types, it seems like whether it's
Ken Griffy, Jamie Diamond, you got to look even Larry Finger.
I mean, they're all talking their book and they all
have a lot to lose. For a transition in a
market that eventually is going to be and happen the
way that we think it is and that is going
to be coming in terms of token is securities and
(03:44):
what this might look like. If you look at your
overall transaction volume right now in xdox reaching now a billion,
do you think this is going to explode in the
near future or do you think this is going to
take time to grow?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yeah, well that's say billion on and you can see
five billion on the left or plus plus tax again
going back to markets like stable coins and digital like
token aze, gold and others. This is creating new financial
primitives on chain. It's not going to whatever, fifty billion,
one hundred billion in three maths. Okay, that's not kind
(04:19):
of the kind of market it is. But we definitely
see the demand. We definitely secret the growth, We see
the excitement and the interest. We're building something that I
think is robust enough to grow into these numbers. And
you know, if you look back the time it took
to you know, for Teter, I think to go to
three million and then ten billion for sure. Yeah, it's
(04:39):
it's it's geometric growth, right, It takes you like a
certain time to go from one million to ten and
then from the same time to go from ten to
one hundred and then a billion and then to ten billion.
That's what I assume, and that's what I think you
know will happen in this market as well well.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And if you look at just the uptake that we've
seen with xtox obviously available on phantom, this has been
one of the biggest reasons now trading obviously within the
Salana ecosystem. We'll talk about that in a minute, because
that in itself I think has kind of created a
pretty big opportunity because it's still very early in terms
of how token is stocks are being done. But here's
(05:14):
the cool thing. I was looking at this right here.
You guys posted this out in terms of access by
bit seventy million users gate thirty million cracking. You can
kind of see the lineup here. It's not going to
be long before we start to see some pretty big
uptake on this for sure. Yeah, when you look at
Ken Griffin's position from a KYC standpoint versus a non
(05:37):
KYC standpoint, make the case for non KYC.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
To be honest.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
For me, I think permission assets are just not very interesting,
you know, I'm like kryptonative. I don't think stable coins
would have succeeded if they were KYC right, right, It's
just not It just doesn't work. It's much much harder
to grow, and it doesn't benefit from the inter probability
of crypto.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
And I believe that the future is permissionless.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
No doubt, permissionless is the way to go. I'm a
big believer that, you know, the non KOYC route will take.
The concern I have right now is this transition period
between old finance traditional finance and what this will be
in terms of next generation finance, which is where I
think we are right now, a little bit in the middle.
How long that will take is the real question mark.
(06:27):
If you look at token is stocks in general and
this will this will be a good question for you.
And if you compare right now, this is just showing
by platform right there, is it more important in terms
of total value or do you feel like it's more
important by active addresses the actual people that's out there.
(06:48):
This is showing that what do you think.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
I can I can tell you that you know if
you go back to the give an analytics that we have before.
My most important kind of KPI is unique holders. That's
the most important thing. I think Exos just crossed thirty
four thousand unique holds. You know, you need people to
kind of engage with them and trust them, and you
need to create a network effect around them.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And that's you know, that takes.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Time for a big player, you know, like black Hawk,
or it doesn't matter right to create something with a
huge kind of am for a product. You know, for them,
a billion is nothing, right, so it doesn't really it
doesn't say anything. And you can have whatever one hundreds
of millions held by.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
A single entity. We've seen this also early on.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
You know, we've people have been talking about talking I
securities for a long time. We think we've seen banks
like something there in a way issue the debt or
bonds where you had basically one holder.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
It went from one pocket to the other of the bank.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So it's not interesting, right, It's it's basically them just
saying that or doing some crypto kind of or blockchain experiments,
you know, and like to have their own kind of
crypto people or blockchain people and brag about it. But
in the end, if you really want to bring it
into the messes and create a.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Real product, that people actually use around the world.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Right, what do you think critical mass would be? I'm
looking at here at your total unique holders, as you
said right there, thirty four thousand. Where would critical mass
happen for you? Do you think it's one hundred thousand
users a quarter of a million? What do you think
that would be?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I would say in the hundreds of thousands. Yes, that's
kind of crettical mess. Indeed.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, do most people care about shareholder rights like what
you see in traditional finance or just pure and simple
price I.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Think most people care mostly about financial exposure. You know,
they care about things like dividends or other things, but
mostly financially like less people that I care about voting rights.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Let's see you just mentioned dividends. How does this work
with x stox with if you have dividends within a stock,
how does that play out?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Where does that go?
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Actions is a very interesting kind of thing, right, because
you were bridging the old traditional finance into crypto and
these two just in many cases just doesn't it doesn't match. Right.
There are things that doesn't work the same tech wise
or or or the way that just uxys as people
expect things to work right and dividends.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I think it's one of them, although they are whatever.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Like at is something corporate actions that you can think of,
but dividends is probably the most important thing along with splits.
The way we choose is kind of very basing, similar
to an et F that is doing kind of accumulation
or drip I think they call it in the US. Basically,
when we receive and we buy more more shares, and
(09:45):
then we rebase the token so that people now have
more tokens I see.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Okay, so it's kind of bled into the system, which
creates kind of a better benefit for the user. Okay,
perfect correct.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Look, but the that is that we want to pass
the financial basically, you know, every financial value to the
end user.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
That would be interesting because obviously there's some tax benefits
there in playing it that way. I'm also looking at
a comparison right here. This is just a reference to
a tweet you had accessible for the people. There's a
statement here complying for institutions. You look at that and
if you kind of compare this to say Onto or Securitize,
which would be the other platforms that are working more
(10:26):
on the institutional side of things. Is it more risky
than going that route. Or do you feel like xdox
is starting to create its own security itself.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
I think we're you know, I think we're creating our
own brand, and I'm less to be honest in general,
I try less to look at what others are doing.
We understand how the product should look like and how
the market is expecting the product to behave, and also
what we think about regulatory and we've done you know,
we've been doing this for several years, and I think
(10:56):
we have good understanding of how regulation works, and we've
done I think the most extensive regulatory work in the
space by far. Our products are basically IFI two great
yere right, and we have a full perspectives like an
S one in the US for example, for our products,
we can stay behind this like it when.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
You look at other chains out there. One here's two
Network first two in history talking about and this is
a reference to Apple and this is their first ever
synthetic stock purchase now on sweet Network, starting with Apple,
So Apple acts available over there. Do you think is
every chain going to have their Apple version of synthetic
(11:38):
stocks or do you think this is something eventually you
guys will look at cross chain, and.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
We started the X stalks on Soana, which is great.
Has been absolutely amazing with the SOA Foundation and the
community around Soana, to be honest, and we're very happy
about this choice. And now we actually launched on a
feu and recently so the tokens are also on a
few and we're planning other other changes as well.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
You know, I think there's going to.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Be basically what we're building a native bridge so that
you can go, you know, from chain to chain. So definitely,
I don't think it'll be you know, there's no DC
for each chain, right, there's one US DC and you
can basically move it.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
That's that's how I see the.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Future well, and I think, you know, you have to
look at the opportunity here in terms of growth, which
is if this really starts to take off to the
scale that you're talking about, I think a lot of
these key chains are really going to be in a
position to start offering these which is only going to
expand token ised securities as a whole. Speaking of that robinhood,
(12:39):
once they launch tokenized stocks, how what happens to X
stocks at that time? What happens to token iszed securities
want a behemoth like Robinhood, who has a much different
you know, profile in terms of their investor than traditional
finance does. What happens after that?
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Until now what we've seen, at least what I've seen,
the Robinhood product are not supposed to be permissionless, which
is I said, I think is less.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Interesting for the market or you know, maybe let me
rephrase that.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Maybe it's a different market, you know, Okay, but the
market that I see as a crypton eightyve, I think
the permission kind of approached that I believe robin Ude
is taking is I think is less interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
So just a different profile in terms of investors that
are going to be looking at that. So it's really
investors going after two different even though they might be
buying you know, traditional finance stocks over on Robinhood. The
question is whether or not they're going to leap into
the token I side of it. I'm looking here at
gold reaching an all time high four thousand. You guys
of course have gold axe available. What about silver? Any
(13:44):
plans for tokenizing silver with silver booming right now in
the market, Well, I.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Can tell you that we're doing another batch of products
right now, Okay, I cannot say if.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Silver is there, and well we'll have a new big bets.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
All right, you're telling me silver's there, that's what you're saying, Adam, Adam,
here's my question. Tesla absolutely killing it. You know, why
is everybody holding Tesla XOC right here? Why do you
think this is such a popular one?
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Well, I think you know, this is a very at
the moment, this is a very retail kind of you know,
yeah product, we know retail like test Line, we know
crypto retail like test Line in particular, So I cannot
say that I'm surprised to be honest, this is very
much what we expected. And you know, you can see
I think we're holding I think there's almost twenty five
(14:39):
million dollars of token eyes like Tesla test Lax, and
over ten thousand holders just for test Lax.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So I think remarkable.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, it is quite remarkable when you look at that.
And I think the opportunity to your point is that
you know that profile of investor matches up so perfectly
with the crypto retail profile that we're seeing. So I
tell I agree with you. Clarity Act could be right now,
very close to an approval if we get it through Congress.
(15:08):
How does that change what's happening for you guys. Do
we start to see a whole bunch of X stocks
starting to make it here into the US markets or
do you think this will just benefit what you guys
are doing.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
You know, I think in general, you know, we've taken
for years, because of the previous administration that has been
very anti crypto, We've taken an approach that was in
a way kind of you know, stepping back from the US.
We've built on the top of European regulation that gave
clarity and kind of avoided US of.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Course clients altogether.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
And you know now that with the new administration and
the very much more pro crypt to SEC, we're of
course engaging and we want to bring axtos to the US.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
But you know, we've been very careful throughout the years.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
We respect the regulation and we'll of course not do
anything before we have regulatory clouds, but we are we're
definitely engaged in that.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I like it, all right, So the future is bright.
Last question I have for you in terms of a
potential token and an air drop, could that be in
the future.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
You know, at the moment, there is no kind of
plans for back to do. To do a token back
is kind of an equity company, which I think suits
the business quite well. You can you can do I
think other air drops of interesting things. So I think
you can do you can still use this mechanism maybe,
but at the moment there are no plans for an
(16:36):
air drop or for sorry for a token.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Well.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
I like the idea is that maybe there are some
other mechanisms for air drops, because obviously, as we start
to see the user base grow, that kind of reward
does so well in this community, as you know, and
it does create into that huge community effort that really
starts to coalesce around something like x stox. So, hey, Adam,
this is great. We're going to contain. We need to
(17:00):
watch this because we believe this is a huge opportunity
for the industry. It's a huge opportunity for crypto worldwide.
I commend you for doing just that, making it more
of an available process of building wealth really around the world.
So thanks for coming in on the show today. We
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Thank you, Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Are you guys make sure and get in on the
diamond circle. We love to get your comments too. If
you like these kind of shows, and you like us
to explore the broader base of crypto, let us know
in the comments down below. Of course, you can join
the Diamond Circle also, just with the link. It's free,
so jump in on that and follow me out there
on x at Paul Baron. We'll catch you next time
right here on the Paul Baron Show.
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