Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
From wherever you are around the world, around the world.
Welcome to the Circle of Insight, a show that explores
the many facets of human behavior and the wonders of
the human mind. And now here's your host, Doctor Carlos.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Today we're going to be talking about the hero's journey,
but the heroes, Johnny is a way to look at myths.
Before we get started on this, I want to apologize
we did have some sound issues. We thank you for
your comments on Apple. Hey, if you have any questions,
if you want to tell us a philosophical concept you
want us to look at, or the psychological concept of
(00:45):
philosophical story, whatever it may be. If it's an Oedipus
Rex to the Odyssey, let us know. If you're on Apple.
We usually look at the comments on Apple podcasts, so
if you're listening there. If not, we'll try to catch
some of the other platforms and see what comments you have.
You can also comment at me at inside the Badge
(01:05):
or at Twitter, which is a doctor Carlos Twitter handle.
You can find me there, or you can also find
me on Instagram if you want to send me a
message there. Okay, we're here to serve you, and let's
get started. So a very brief history of the hero's journey.
It was the mono myth was first conceptualized by Joseph
Campbell in a great book if you like philosophy, The
Hero with a Thousand Faces, really cool stuff about myths
(01:29):
and Campbell's mono myth. The hero embarks on a circular
journey comprised of seventeen stages. Now, a Hollywood executive by
the name of Christopher Wogler changed that into twelve stages.
It would fit better for making movies, and that's what
he did, and we're going to look at some of
the movies in the twelve stages that Vogler chose. The
very first stage is called the ordinary world. The hero
(01:50):
is introduced in the ordinary world of mundane. Ordinary world
is presented at start contrast with the special world that
the hero will enter when they accept their quest. Spider Man,
Peter Parker's introduced as a regular nerdy teen, right, remember him,
And so is Clark Kent. He was a nerd as well.
Batman wasn't quite a nerd, but.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
A lot of these alter egos.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
You can see this kind of living in this boring
world and then they get called in that stage two,
which is the call to adventure. Think of Star Wars
if you're fan. The call to adventure comes in the
former Princess Leah's message delivered by R two D two,
that famous little hologram. The initiating incident of the story
takes place. The hero is introduced to the challenge of
the problem. Number three is the refusal. The hero hesitates
(02:34):
to accept the call, and this is more clearly seen
the Lord of the Rings trilogy, when Froudo is reluctant
to leave his comfortable and familiar life in the Shire
in order to face the unknown dangers and put his
life on the line. I wouldn't blame Frodo number four.
You can also see it actually in Harry Potter number four,
meeting with the Mentor. The hero meets a wise, usually
(02:55):
older woman or man, and of course this gives you
you can think of a lot of them, I'm sure right,
Dumbledore from Harry Potter, Gandal from Lord of the Rings,
and then of course Neo when he meets Morpheus, was
their version crossing the first threshold. Stage number five, the
hero commits whole hardly to the adventure and integrates it
into the Special World, and Spider Man Peter crosses that
(03:16):
threshold when he catches the thief who killed his uncle
Ben and realizes that he must use powers to stop crying.
Number six You test allies and enemies. The hero explores
the Special World, faces trial, and makes friends and enemies
along the way. This can be thought of as Harry
Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, where he makes friends with
(03:37):
Ron Weasley and Hermione and then becomes enemies with Draco
Malfoy even though he didn't want to. Number seven approach
to the innermost Cave. The hero draws closer to the
center of the story. Now, this innermost cave is where
the object your alexir is of the quest is hidden.
And if you want to look at it psychologically, this
could be where we actually start identifying who we are
in our lives, digging deep into who we are. And
(04:00):
movie wise, death Star and Star wars at Luke and
his companions must infiltrate the ship to save Leah.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
See how that works.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
You can see how you use these real life events
and then philosophize them more, psychologicalize.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Them, psychologize them. I can't even say it.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
By the way, if you listen to my other podcast,
Forensic Psychology is another podcast I do which I also
have to fix the audio on. But if you go
over there Forensic Psychology. One of the things we learned
about serial killers is when they do things, they represent
other things. They're symbolic, and that's hence the world.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Of the myth.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
That's why I think Joseph Campbell's book is pretty good.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Number eight is the Ordeal. The heroes push to.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
The brink of death or loss and faces the greatest
challenge yet. Think of the lion king Simba's ordeal means
he must face the guilt he feels for his father's death.
Remember he blamed himself for that for a while and
scar his uncle encouraged it. But he also has to
reclaim his right to pride. Rock Number nine the reward,
which is the hero experiences of the costs a quences
(05:00):
of surviving death and retrieves the object of the quest.
Now this isn't the end of it yet, but Harry
Potter and the philosopher Ston'll give you a great examples.
He overcomes and finds the stone in his pocket. Number
ten is the road back. Their hero returns to the
ordinary world or continues onward to an ultimate destination.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
But the trials aren't just over. This is the good
example of the Lord of the Rings again.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
This is where Gallum confronts Froudo at the ledge of
the Volcano and tries to take the ring back from him.
So he's got this obsessive compulsiveness Gollum has and he
can't give it up.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
He needs to have it, needs to have it.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
His whole identity, his life, his self esteem is based on.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
This actually reminds me a little bit about gangs.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
A lot of times their identity is wrapped into the
who they are, their self esteem and this tough guy character,
and if anybody disrespects them, they feel it's incredibly violated.
Kind of a little segue there, Number eleven. The resurrection
that here emerges from that special world fundamentally changed by
the experiences. Simba learned the truth that it was Scar
(06:01):
who orchestrated Mufoss's death, and Simba threw a Scar off
of Pride Rock in order.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
To reclaim his place as king.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
And this happens to us all, doesn't it, No matter
what trauma we've experienced or what great events we've experienced
it changes us forever.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Number twelve and the ending. Here the hero brings with
them the.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Object of their quest, and they also tell the world
that we're here to make it a better place. You
can remember Matrix the classic scene. Armed with the knowledge
of the truth, Neil delivers a message to the Matrix
that he will save humanity.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And that's it for today's folks. What others?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
What stories can you think over more?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Or movies?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Stories and movies, maybe even TV shows not so much though,
but stories are TV shows where you can apply this
hero's journey. Can you apply it to your own life?
We all seem to have these challenges and sometimes we
didn't ask for them, but we have to overcome them.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Just food for thought. Thanks for listening, everyone,
From wherever you are around the world, around the world.
Welcome to the Circle of Insight, a show that explores
the many facets of human behavior and the wonders of
the human mind. And now here's your host, Doctor Carlos.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Today we're going to be talking about the hero's journey,
but the heroes, Johnny is a way to look at myths.
Before we get started on this, I want to apologize
we did have some sound issues. We thank you for
your comments on Apple. Hey, if you have any questions,
if you want to tell us a philosophical concept you
want us to look at, or the psychological concept of
(00:45):
philosophical story, whatever it may be. If it's an Oedipus
Rex to the Odyssey, let us know. If you're on Apple.
We usually look at the comments on Apple podcasts, so
if you're listening there. If not, we'll try to catch
some of the other platforms and see what comments you have.
You can also comment at me at inside the Badge
(01:05):
or at Twitter, which is a doctor Carlos Twitter handle.
You can find me there, or you can also find
me on Instagram if you want to send me a
message there. Okay, we're here to serve you, and let's
get started. So a very brief history of the hero's journey.
It was the mono myth was first conceptualized by Joseph
Campbell in a great book if you like philosophy, The
Hero with a Thousand Faces, really cool stuff about myths
(01:29):
and Campbell's mono myth. The hero embarks on a circular
journey comprised of seventeen stages. Now, a Hollywood executive by
the name of Christopher Wogler changed that into twelve stages.
It would fit better for making movies, and that's what
he did, and we're going to look at some of
the movies in the twelve stages that Vogler chose. The
very first stage is called the ordinary world. The hero
(01:50):
is introduced in the ordinary world of mundane. Ordinary world
is presented at start contrast with the special world that
the hero will enter when they accept their quest. Spider Man,
Peter Parker's introduced as a regular nerdy teen, right, remember him,
And so is Clark Kent. He was a nerd as well.
Batman wasn't quite a nerd, but.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
A lot of these alter egos.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
You can see this kind of living in this boring
world and then they get called in that stage two,
which is the call to adventure. Think of Star Wars
if you're fan. The call to adventure comes in the
former Princess Leah's message delivered by R two D two,
that famous little hologram. The initiating incident of the story
takes place. The hero is introduced to the challenge of
the problem. Number three is the refusal. The hero hesitates
(02:34):
to accept the call, and this is more clearly seen
the Lord of the Rings trilogy, when Froudo is reluctant
to leave his comfortable and familiar life in the Shire
in order to face the unknown dangers and put his
life on the line. I wouldn't blame Frodo number four.
You can also see it actually in Harry Potter number four,
meeting with the Mentor. The hero meets a wise, usually
(02:55):
older woman or man, and of course this gives you
you can think of a lot of them, I'm sure right,
Dumbledore from Harry Potter, Gandal from Lord of the Rings,
and then of course Neo when he meets Morpheus, was
their version crossing the first threshold. Stage number five, the
hero commits whole hardly to the adventure and integrates it
into the Special World, and Spider Man Peter crosses that
(03:16):
threshold when he catches the thief who killed his uncle
Ben and realizes that he must use powers to stop crying.
Number six You test allies and enemies. The hero explores
the Special World, faces trial, and makes friends and enemies
along the way. This can be thought of as Harry
Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, where he makes friends with
(03:37):
Ron Weasley and Hermione and then becomes enemies with Draco
Malfoy even though he didn't want to. Number seven approach
to the innermost Cave. The hero draws closer to the
center of the story. Now, this innermost cave is where
the object your alexir is of the quest is hidden.
And if you want to look at it psychologically, this
could be where we actually start identifying who we are
in our lives, digging deep into who we are. And
(04:00):
movie wise, death Star and Star wars at Luke and
his companions must infiltrate the ship to save Leah.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
See how that works.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
You can see how you use these real life events
and then philosophize them more, psychologicalize.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Them, psychologize them. I can't even say it.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
By the way, if you listen to my other podcast,
Forensic Psychology is another podcast I do which I also
have to fix the audio on. But if you go
over there Forensic Psychology. One of the things we learned
about serial killers is when they do things, they represent
other things. They're symbolic, and that's hence the world.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Of the myth.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
That's why I think Joseph Campbell's book is pretty good.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Number eight is the Ordeal. The heroes push to.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
The brink of death or loss and faces the greatest
challenge yet. Think of the lion king Simba's ordeal means
he must face the guilt he feels for his father's death.
Remember he blamed himself for that for a while and
scar his uncle encouraged it. But he also has to
reclaim his right to pride. Rock Number nine the reward,
which is the hero experiences of the costs a quences
(05:00):
of surviving death and retrieves the object of the quest.
Now this isn't the end of it yet, but Harry
Potter and the philosopher Ston'll give you a great examples.
He overcomes and finds the stone in his pocket. Number
ten is the road back. Their hero returns to the
ordinary world or continues onward to an ultimate destination.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
But the trials aren't just over. This is the good
example of the Lord of the Rings again.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
This is where Gallum confronts Froudo at the ledge of
the Volcano and tries to take the ring back from him.
So he's got this obsessive compulsiveness Gollum has and he
can't give it up.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
He needs to have it, needs to have it.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
His whole identity, his life, his self esteem is based on.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
This actually reminds me a little bit about gangs.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
A lot of times their identity is wrapped into the
who they are, their self esteem and this tough guy character,
and if anybody disrespects them, they feel it's incredibly violated.
Kind of a little segue there, Number eleven. The resurrection
that here emerges from that special world fundamentally changed by
the experiences. Simba learned the truth that it was Scar
(06:01):
who orchestrated Mufoss's death, and Simba threw a Scar off
of Pride Rock in order.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
To reclaim his place as king.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
And this happens to us all, doesn't it, No matter
what trauma we've experienced or what great events we've experienced
it changes us forever.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Number twelve and the ending. Here the hero brings with
them the.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Object of their quest, and they also tell the world
that we're here to make it a better place. You
can remember Matrix the classic scene. Armed with the knowledge
of the truth, Neil delivers a message to the Matrix
that he will save humanity.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And that's it for today's folks. What others?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
What stories can you think over more?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Or movies?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Stories and movies, maybe even TV shows not so much though,
but stories are TV shows where you can apply this
hero's journey. Can you apply it to your own life?
We all seem to have these challenges and sometimes we
didn't ask for them, but we have to overcome them.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Just food for thought. Thanks for listening, everyone,
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