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August 11, 2025 100 mins

This week Mike, Stephen & Devaughn go back to the beginning with George A Romero's Diary of the Dead. A reboot of sorts of the Living Dead series, Diary finds Romero dabbling in the found footage with mixed results. Clunk performances, unlikable characters and a reliance on CGI mar a solid social commentary on the emerging online media, which is a message that still resonates today.

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Episode Transcript

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(00:21):
I proclaim this the summer of George.
Hey there everyone, and welcome to the pod and the pendulum.

(00:42):
We are the horror movie podcast covers all the franchises one
movie and one episode at a time.And we are continuing the summer
of George with the 2007 found footage entry Diary of the Dead.
As always, I'm your host, Mike'sNoonan and I'm not alone.
There's no one else I'd rather be piloting a Winnebago with
while documenting the end of theworld with my two Co hosts from

(01:05):
today up first from the Disenfranchise podcast as well
as the new podcast Wells You theshow that covers all things
about the late, great Orson Welles.
Please welcome back Mr. Steven Foxworthy.
Steven, how are we? Doing great Mike, happy to be
here. Always a pleasure to be joined
by two such austere and auspicious individuals as

(01:25):
yourselves. Thank you.
You're here to make a good. You know what?
It's an amateur filmmaker yourself.
You might be able to weigh in tonight as a young thespian and.
Potentially. Such maybe?
Maybe not. Who knows?
Who knows? Also joining us, the Co host of
the Spectre Cinema Club as well as the podcast Tainted Love, a
show that looks at sex, dating and relationships as viewed

(01:47):
through the genre lens. Mr. Devon Taylor.
It is first go round talking about these zombie films this
time Devon, what's going on? Hello, hello, somebody take this
podcast mic away from me. It's too easy to use.
Which, you know, that could alsowork as the intro for Tainted
Love as well. We got some, I mean.

(02:07):
That is very true. Yeah.
We got some. Steven, would you say we have
some Shakespearean Murthy dialogue in this movie?
I don't know, maybe not Shakespeare, maybe more like
Marlow, but yeah, no. It's like, is that Laurence
Olivier in this film? Like what is going on here?
I. Just find it very funny that the

(02:28):
most the the one actor that really goes on to do anything
really big that we would probably Leonardo DiCaprio point
at the screen is killed off within the first half hour.
Yes, wisely, she's like, Get Me Out of here.
Great choice, George. Well done.
Although our lead would go on, we'll talk about it, but our

(02:48):
lead goes on to do a lot of stuff in Canada, including like
250 episodes of a television show in Canada.
We also have a Power Ranger in here.
We do, but we'll get to that here when we get to the cast
list as well. I mean, yeah, this is my first
go around for Summer of George and because I famously do not

(03:09):
like zombie movies. But if somebody would told me
this was the found footage 1, you wouldn't have had to even
talk me into it. I would have already signed up
for this one. Some footage deserves to not be
found. Some footage can stay can stay
kind of buried. Sometimes dead is better.
Yes, very. Good also coming to the wheel at
some point in the. Future looking forward to that.

(03:30):
No, I thought. I thought you all did that
already. I didn't realize that wasn't on
there. Lovely.
OK, super quick. Before we give our initial
thoughts on the film, a quick bit of housekeeping.
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(03:52):
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You can visit our site pod in the pendulum.com where all of
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(04:14):
with this one, and we'll talk about episode 300 at the end of
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If you really love what we do, please consider becoming a
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bonus shows. We cover a lot of movies.

(04:35):
The main feed wouldn't normally get to fan commentaries, shoot
the shit episodes, franchises like I Spit on Your Grave, all
the Nosferatu films. Stephen and I spent two hours
talking the new James Gun Superman.
So you know, if you really like what we do, for as little as 2
bucks a month you get access to all of that patreon.com pod and

(04:57):
the pendulum. All right, with that bit of
housekeeping out of the way, let's dive into the movie a
little bit into Vaughn. Let's start with you, since this
is your first time coming back on to talk any of the Romero
movies and maybe discuss your relationship with like the
zombie genre in general and Romero films in particular.

(05:17):
Well, I figure out why one of myeyes looks like I've been stung
by a Hornet. I mean, yeah, I'm not the
biggest zombie person. In our Patreon episode 28 Years
Later, I mentioned a little bit of history of that, but I mean,
it's basically like it's a combination of, I don't think
there's a ton of variety amongstmost zombie movies.
I think we mainly have like maybe four types of zombie

(05:41):
movies and like every movie kindof falls into one of those
categories, which is fine. That's kind of the same way with
a lot of other genres. But I don't know, they just but
they are just movies that don't.I usually don't care for whether
it's the ones that like lean into the military stuff.
Don't really care for that. Whether it's, you know, the like
big spectacle stuff. I'm usually more like the small
quiet stuff. So it's like there are zombie

(06:02):
movies that I do enjoy, but moreoften times than not, I don't.
I think also I've mentioned thison various franchises too, and
this is kind of a benchmark for me just in horror, in generals,
I think I would be fine against zombies.
Most zombies don't scare me likea zombie apocalypse.
I'm making quick decisions, I'm ready to go.
I'm athletic enough. We can do like I'm I'm fine.

(06:25):
So like, I think that's my my benchmark too, is like, how
would I do in that situation? Like, does that stir up any fear
in me? And most times when I watch
zombie movies, I just get frustrated by watching people
not get over their morality shitto survive.
Like come on, get with it, you know?
So you're going by like the Zombieland.
Get your cardio in a double tap rule of surviving.

(06:47):
With any apocalypse, like I'm I'm talking literally but
whatever zombie apocalypse situation is like, I feel fairly
confident in my survival skills.Because you don't.
Except, except maybe like World War Z, that one's kind of crazy
that that's a, that's a, that's a lot, that's kind of a lot
going on. But most other times I'm like, I
think I I could figure it out, you know, like I could get, I

(07:07):
could get my bearings and like we could figure it out.
But as far as Romero goes, I think that's, you know, kind of
my thing with this franchise as well.
Like I've seen now the living dead.
I've seen his dawn of the dead. I don't think I've seen day of
the dead or and I didn't know land of the dead was before this
one. I thought this was like the
start of his like more modern trilogy.

(07:28):
I wouldn't make sense. Wouldn't it?
Yeah, right. So now I'm going to go back and
watch Land of the Dead before wedo survival, but this one being
kind of a origin prequel, like kind of start was a nice one for
me to be able to hop into without having to re catch up on
everything y'all have been covering.
And this movie, it's not completely horrible, It's not

(07:49):
totally awful. There's there's some Nuggets
here and there. There's a few flashes where
Romero comes up with something creative that he hasn't done yet
and it's like, hey, look, I still got it.
There's a couple flashes of that, but mostly I put in my
letterbox review. This feels like a zombie
apocalypse via slam poetry performance.

(08:10):
This is like. That's not a compliment that no,
it's. Not like not to disrespect
Romero or anything, but this this movie kind of gives some
vibes of hey there, fellow kiddos, you know, him trying to
kind of, you know, match what the young film makers are doing
at the time and also comment on that and his legacy and
everything. It's all kind of, I don't know,

(08:31):
like I mean, there's, there's again, there's Nuggets and I
like the structure of this, thislike Rd. movie with like 5
different like distinct levels. I'm like, hey, that's kind of
interesting. Like we got a hospital, we got
the underground militia, we got the rich kid house.
Like, so like, on that aspect, I'm like, OK, like, you know,
we're given a little something. But man, this dialogue and the

(08:51):
performances are just awful, awful, awful.
And this movie is so on the noseabout what it's doing, being the
Diary of the Dead again, documenting legacy, all that
stuff. And maybe it only feels
heavy-handed because this came out in 2007.
We've gotten a lot more films inthis vein since then, you know?

(09:12):
Yeah. So mostly this movie's not good,
but it has a couple flashes. It did make me laugh a few times
and I wasn't completely bored, I'll say.
I want to get back to something you said a few minutes ago about
being able to survive in a zombie type apocalypse and being
able to kind of, you know, matchwits or avoid them.
So the litmus test I might use is like, how many?

(09:35):
Let's say you're in a school full of kindergarten kids,
right? Sure, we've discussed this.
Before, well, just follow my train of thought here.
I mean like. We probably classic might
question. I was gonna say this is this is
the Snooty in classic and we love.
It so how many like at what point do like you get I mean,
they're typically pretty weak, right?

(09:56):
I mean like they're. They're we're going with
kindergarteners this time. Let's.
Start with kindergarteners. 1st 5 year olds. 5-6 year old kids
again, legally you can be 6. Right.
And how many does it take for them?
Overwhelmed before you get overwhelmed.
Do I have not guns? Because I'm not a gun person?
But do I have a weapon? Sure.
Or is this just fists? Do I know?
If whatever is at hand, like whatever.

(10:18):
I if I can figure out a weapon in my situation, then I could
go. I mean, they're about four feet
tall, 70 lbs. I could I'd say 35.
I'd say 35. OK, before, if I have a, if I
have a solid weapon like a hammer or like a broomstick or a
baseball bat, I'd be going. Broomstick.
Yeah. I could, I could, I could handle

(10:38):
35 before I'm like really sweating.
Maybe even 50 if we're talking 5year old kindergarteners.
Because you're a fit guy. Like you play volleyball, you do
sports. I'm sure you've had to Chuck
some people out at the bar everynow and then, right?
So I'm sure you can hold your own if shit goes down.
But let's say you took out 50 kindergarten kids and then
eventually you get the tireless Atlas has fallen, right?

(11:02):
So now picture that like 50100200A thousand undead
kindergarten kids who you can't hurt with.
Just like a kick in the nuts, you can't hurt psychologically
with your Mama jokes. But this is impromptu.
But this is impromptu though. So like, you know, if I can
handle a wave and get settled and stuff and then you start

(11:23):
figuring out your plan, your infrastructure, then that all
that stuff completely changes. I'm talking about like off the
cuff and like when it, I guess it does depend on the on the
pace because sometimes in some, in some zombie movies, they do
multiply very quickly, more exponentially at the pace in
this one, pretty slow. Yeah, that's fine.

(11:44):
They have good closing speed. I think that's the thing about
when people talk about Romeros zombies being very slow, like
typically yes, but they tend to close that gap like very
quickly. They have a good like last step
to the whole, as I would say. And if we were talking
basketball? They're very, very quiet in
close quarters because they're always, there's always two or

(12:04):
three of them right there for a jump scare whenever you need
which. Kindergarteners are not quiet
kindergarteners. There's no element of surprise.
We had a kindergarten kid who did not.
The only word of English he spoke was bash, and when he said
that word, he was going to punchyou in the Nuggets as hard as he
did bash. But he was kind of adorable.

(12:26):
You couldn't even be mad. It's like, Yep, you're using my
ball bag as a speed bag. But kid, you're such a cutie
that I'm not even mad at you. I was hoping that Brian was
going to be on this episode because we both watch A Village
of the Damned on the same day the other day, and I was like
watching that. And I'm like watching these
people. I'm like, yeah, I know they got
the hypnotism, but you're letting these kids punk.
Y'all like come on, like pull upyour sleeves like let's get to

(12:50):
it. See, I thought you were going to
say I wish Brian was on this episode because if anyone likes
getting punched in the nuts by afive year old, that was going to
be very, very, very nervous. Very, very nervous for a minute.
So. Him in his tracksuit.
All right, well, we do have one man on the show who does like
getting kicked in the jimmies. Steven, what are your initial

(13:12):
thoughts on as we segue? What a wow.
What? What an what?
Again, just love. Love being assigned to that
superlative wonderful. I didn't say who, I just said
one of us likes getting kicked in the nuts and then threw it
over to you. You made that assumption, I'm
just saying. Right, me like everyone else,
listening. I guess like you here.

(13:32):
Correct. Yes, thank you.
Appreciate that as always. This is the second ever Living
Dead movie I or actually honestly second ever Romero
movie that I had ever seen afterthe original.
I saw this on the recommendationof my good friend and occasional
podcast Co host Brett Wright over at Disenfranchised.
I was putting together a Halloween horror marathon and he
was like, well, you need some, you need more zombies and you

(13:53):
need some found footage. So do Diary of the Dead.
And I was kind of like, why did you recommend that one to me?
And he was like, honestly, I andI still haven't seen.
I need to like do the do the work and get to wreck, honestly.
But that was one that he was very fond of or a diary is one
that he was very fond of. So he recommended that to me.
And I was just kind of like, I know, man.

(14:14):
And it kind of put me off watching any of the other Romero
movies until just a couple yearsago when I finally sat down with
Dead, I guess. OK, I guess I miss Book.
This is the third Romero movie because I saw Day first, then
Night, then Diary. I watched them all kinds of.
So you're like all over the map.Yeah, pretty much.
And then I watched a couple years ago, I watched Dawn and

(14:35):
then I watched Land like yesterday in Land.
I really, I thought Land was really fun.
I like that one. And then watching this one
back-to-back with Land was depressing.
Just just wholly depressing. It it felt somehow worse than I
remembered it being. I think it dropped the whole
star rating for me this time. It feels more like an extended

(14:57):
episode of like a Canadian BuffyRIP off than it does an actual
film from one of the most, you know, prominent and influential
directors in the genre. Just again.
That all that said, it's not entirely without its charms.
There are moments of this movie where I was legitimately
impressed by what he was able toput together, which I'll get
into more of what I did enjoy about this movie later on when

(15:19):
we get into the movie discussion.
But yeah, I'll, I'll second Devon.
It's not good. It's not good at all.
Yeah, this is another contender.Like we've had a lot of these
this year is like, what is the worst film we've covered for the
year? And like there's two entries in
the wrong term franchise. There's Exorcist to The Heretic
and then I think Devon, you would say like Wishmaster 3,

(15:43):
which I think Ari and I both thought was like better than it
was advertised to be like that one felt like very.
Amateurish, I'd say this is better than witch master 3 as
far as our far as our weekend trees go, But I also don't think
this is like like I don't I I don't put this in the I put it
in the tier above. I wouldn't put this in the re

(16:04):
evaluating the show, you know, no, it's definitely not shelf
life. It's not in that one, but it's
maybe the one above that. Like this is like kind of one of
the more just like kind of. Yeah.
Type of movies. It's like the worst thing the
parent can say to a kid is not amad at you, but I'm not mad.
I'm disappointed. And that's kind of how I feel
about this movie. Just because you have a, you

(16:26):
know, original trilogy of films which have which are held in
very high esteem, that Land of the Dead was a lot of fun for
what it was like. It's not a great movie, but it's
a lot of fun still like an enjoyable romp of a film.
And this is such a drastic reduction in quality that it's
kind. Of so many ways.
Yeah, it's just really amazing. And, you know, it's kind of

(16:50):
twofold. One, it's a director that so
many of us hold in really high esteem, I think some more than
others. And then to come off of like a
very successful return to the genre, although maybe still a
step down from things like Shawnof the Dead or I would argue
even the Dawn of the Dead remake, although not everyone
would agree like this, just feltreally tired.

(17:11):
It felt like someone who's getting a little bit older, They
don't have the fastball anymore and they're maybe trying to play
with with some techniques that are not suited very well to like
the skill set they bring. And we'll kind of talk about
that when we get into the background when.
George, you can't do the 17 seamknuckles screw.

(17:33):
You can't. And that's just not your that's
just not your style. George.
He's just. Throwing EFIS pitch after EFIS
pitch on this one. And I don't know, my wife and I
like we were like looking for something to watch in bed like a
month ago and she didn't want togo through anything in my
browser history. So I'm like, well, let's do
Diary of the Dead because like that's on Prime and I know we

(17:55):
have to watch it coming up very soon.
And we watched it for 10 minutes.
And then she looked at me. She's like, what do you think of
this? I'm like, this is not good.
She's like, do you want to just put on something else?
And I'm like, absolutely. And I forget what we watched,
but. Literally anything literally at
that point. She was probably OK with hitting

(18:15):
your browser history after that.We watched like Funniest Wakes,
2023, The Abolition, you know, And that was that was more
enjoyable. You know, I've gone back and
listened to a few old episodes, like early, early, like Friday
the 13th just to because we're coming up on 300.
I'm getting a little nostalgic and I used to take this really

(18:36):
seriously. Like there were no jokes.
There's no wise ass. And I'm kind of like what
happened to me. So yeah.
Anyway, listeners, that's something's just wrong with me.
All right, that's what that's what the the franchises do you
know you you when you again, it's all part of the experience.
We we sift through these ones sothat way we appreciate the

(18:58):
hidden gems more later. I feel like, I feel like Chucky,
like the first couple movies, they're fairly serious.
I mean, they've got through humor, but they're fairly
serious. And then by the time you get to
the mid 90s and you have like the bride of Chucky and the the
son of Shucky, whatever the fifth one is, you're.

(19:18):
Like seed, Seed of seed. Yeah, not.
We are no longer, that's right, we are no longer taking these
movies serious anymore. And I feel like that's happened
to me in some ways. Here I was going to say that I
think that's the most accurate depiction of the podcast in
general. I mean, absolutely went through
a couple different Co hosts. You had two permanent Co hosts

(19:39):
first and then we and then we switched a rotating table format
now. So I mean, hey, if we can have
the staying power of the Chucky franchises had through its
different evolutions, I'd say that's a win.
So I'd say that's a very apartment, the franchise
comparison for the podcast. And I mean, every podcast kind
of doesn't know what it wants tobe when it first starts out.

(20:01):
So it's got to find its footing and find its voice.
And I think the looser you've gotten and kind of the, the free
willing. I, I feel like that's the sense
of humor I think is what pulls people in and what makes people
want to engage so. You know your lips are the
listeners to download God's Ears.
All right, let's talk a little bit about the background here
and we're going to fly through. It's not a ton here to go

(20:23):
through it, but the basic idea like Romero actually had an idea
to talk about like the emerging media and the new the new media
techniques before he even did Land of the Dead.
But Land of the Dead was his first foray into studio
filmmaking when it comes to the living dead movies.
The other three were all essentially independent films

(20:45):
that he got to make with, like, his Pittsburgh crew, like the
people he loved making movies with.
And, you know, Romero is not someone who enjoys working
within the studio system. He felt like he wasn't allowed
to improvise that if, like, he got an idea on the fly that you
would have like to be, in his words, like the bean counter

(21:06):
behind him saying that's not in,like, the shooting script for
the day. That's not in the budget for the
day. So he kind of wanted to go back
to his roots and make a movie ascheap as possible, like in his
idea as low as 1/4 of 1,000,000 bucks.
And he actually wanted to use students from like, Full Sail
University, which is a media university in Florida.

(21:27):
In the commercials for that. Yes, where a lot of like NXT
wrestling is produced as well there and where a lot of it is
filmed. And the idea was like, we'll
make this as cheap as possible using actual student film
makers. But then the another production
company came in and said we won't give you any notes.
You can do whatever you want with it.

(21:49):
Here's a couple 1,000,000 bucks.I mean, I mean, there's worse
scenarios, but to have, you know, I especially in the the
arts where, you know, you weren't, you know, a backed up
studio film, you kind of weren'treally getting, you know, the
the resources that you could like, you know, we kind of
weren't in the the mid budget, like Blum house model that would

(22:10):
like kind of come a little bit later.
It's still a little bit before that.
So I mean, you know, it's not it's not the worst deal in the
world. You know, it's like, hey, you're
getting all the resources and nobody's over your shoulder.
Like, and it's kind of at that point, like especially again,
this point as career. It's like, hey, you know, he's
like, I can you know, he's not to say that he should, you know,
direct a movie on autopilot, buthe's kind of gotten to that

(22:32):
point where he can because it's just him.
He's got that much experience. So he's like, yeah, sure,
whatever, give me the college kids, give me the whatever set,
like I can make it happen, you know.
So and whether or not again, it's like, I want to know, you
know, it's curious on like kind of where he felt about like kind
of his career at this point. And like if he's doing this to

(22:53):
try to prove something to himself or if it is, again, just
because like they're handing, I have this deal, I'm going to
take it. It's a solid deal.
I feel like that's got to be part of it.
But also the fact that, like, these are the only movies he can
seem to get made. Like you can tell early in his
career that he's got loftier ambitions than just making
zombie movies. But it's the dance, monkey

(23:13):
dance. This is what we want you to do
and this is what we're going to fund and finance.
Say the line bar. 100% yes, absolutely.
So it yeah. And for a filmmaker like Romero,
who I would consider an auteur, the artistic freedom is the big
part of it. You look at stuff like Gremlins
2 and where Joe Dante basically gets a not only a shit ton of

(23:36):
money, but also complete artistic freedom to do whatever
the fuck he wants. And that's why that movie is so
cuckoo banana pants, but also pure distilled Joe Dante on
screen like Hellboy 2. The Golden Army is I think one
of those as well where Del Toro's like, yeah, I'll come
back and do a sequel. You're going to let me do what I
want. And they do like these kind of
pure distilled O tourist visionson screen and to be given, I

(23:59):
think, I think the real tension for Romero is he's got the
freedom, but he doesn't really have the budget.
And granted, he's got probably like 10 times the budget he was
initially expecting or wanting, but there's still only so much
that can buy. And it shows like when they say
you can see it all on screen. In this case you can, but you
can also see the limitations of that on screen as well.

(24:21):
And that's, I think, the part that hurts me the most.
You think about like day of the dead, he has like 3 ends up with
like $3,000,000 the budgets cut in half.
That's $3,000,000 in 1985 money versus like 2 and a half million
dollars like more than 20 years later.
And you saw every penny of that 3 million in Day of the Dead.

(24:44):
Like still to me, the best looking zombies ever committed
to screen. It looks good to this day.
It holds up. And now like what you have to do
to compromise now with that low amount of dough.
And Steven, to your point about these are the movies that he can
get made. Like he was pretty open.
Like, he does interviews at thistime with sites like Cinema

(25:04):
Blend where they ask, like, do you ever feel like you're known
as a zombie guy, that that's allyou do?
And he's very open about saying,I set out to be a filmmaker.
I didn't set out to be a horror filmmaker.
And he said, but unfortunately, every time I made a foray
outside of the genre, nine people would go see the movie.
So like it or not, like, these are the only movies that I

(25:27):
actually get to make. And he says like the other side
of that is he gets, you know, a lot of respect in a lot of I
guess like a lot of adulation asthe founder of this sub genre,
but it comes at a cost. It comes at like the he doesn't
get to create the art that he necessarily wanted to create.
And we talked a bit like we talked about Night of the living

(25:49):
dead. We talked a little bit about
Toby Hooper and Sam Raimi and like, their low budget for AIDS
in the horror and for Sam Raimi,that ended up being a calling
card into doing whatever he wanted to do.
Where, yeah, Romero goes more down the Hooper path.
Like these are the films he getsto make and.

(26:10):
Craven as well I would think would be another also emblematic
of that. Craven to agree wanted to be a
yeah something other than a horror film maker but that was
the only stuff he could get made.
Like when he finally gets his blank check after a scream or I
think the first 3 screams. He makes a Meryl Streep movie
about music. Music of the heart, yeah.
Yeah. So, like, I mean, he also
desperately wanted to be something else.

(26:31):
He just couldn't get those films.
No one wanted to see that from him.
He truly wanted more. Did he truly wanted to do more
Abe Snakeskin movies? That's what Craven really
wanted, I think. The difference is Craven gets a
lot more mainstream respect put on his name.
Do you know what I mean? Like he even at.
This time, you know, like if you're going like contempt like
around this like same time Euro like he was still getting a

(26:53):
budget for cursed. He was still getting in budget
for Red Eye and so like, yeah, he was still getting this stuff
and then four. I mean, the man reinvented the
genre three times. Like let's deservedly so.
He he got also, even though he stayed mostly within genre, he
got to play with a wider sandbox, like you said, making

(27:15):
movies like Red Eye, which are alot more of a thriller.
So he got to do things like the serpent and the rainbow, like
different. Yeah.
And the people under the stairs.Like he didn't necessarily get
pigeonholed into one style of movie where it Romero that this
is primarily what he's going to be known for are like these 6

(27:36):
movies and Creepshow, I think are the seven movies when you
and really when it comes to Romero, zombie movies, like not
many people talk about like thatlatter trilogy, like these
movies that are all made very close to one another.
So he decides at this point, allright, all this new media
exists. And the idea that he struck with

(27:56):
his, you know, one I think we still wrestle with today.
How do you sift through all of this unmanaged information to
get to the truth? Like what is true and what is
perspective? You know, he thought about echo
chambers. Like if you're only following
the points of view that you agree with, how informed can you
really be? So his idea is like, well, it
wouldn't make sense to have all these emerging media types and

(28:19):
the world that's been decimated by the zombies already.
Like all the infrastructure would be gone.
So we're going to essentially have to start the series over
again. Well, it it, it's very funny
because this is a funny movie. To follow up, I watched
Eddington last night and there'ssequences in between these two
movies that aren't very not too different.

(28:43):
It's kind of funny actually, as far as the themes of media and
things like that. And it's funny because like, you
know, as we kind of see it, you know, the reason of filming this
or in like Eddington, like, you know, things getting out of hand
because of media and social, social media stuff.
It also is because just like, well, you know, we also don't

(29:03):
need the media to like, you know, do this like the part of
like, you know, later in this movie comes down to it's just
like, well, if you know, people just trust each other, then like
it wouldn't really matter about,you know, like making sure we
have the video proof, making sure this if you just believe
somebody when they say something, then she's like, Oh,
well, then then there's that. You know, so it's like if we
ever got to that, you know, and things were like that at some

(29:26):
point. But you know, I guess that
doesn't make for as interesting for you know, to have zombies in
a pre media day. But very fascinating to watch
this in Eddington pack to back. Well, I think you're right.
I think that out of all of his movies, like this is the one
where the message still resonates the most today.
Like, it's still the most timely.

(29:47):
And he's a little bit ahead of the curve.
Like he's talking about things like Myspace and this.
And, you know, YouTube is still on the net.
You can see, you know, an old guy talking the Internet.
But like, YouTube was like a brand new thing at this point.
And there was still like, more message boards.
Like, we're not talking about things like Reddit at this

(30:07):
point, right? It's interesting to me this
movie is being made right aroundthe time when Time magazine
releases their person of the year.
And the person of the year is you, the mirror.
So I mean, because of because ofthe rise of streamable online
content in places like Myspace and YouTube and things like
that. So like, like Romero seems to be
hitting on this right around that time feels somewhat

(30:29):
prescient, although I do call this his old man yells at cloud
movie because it's, you know, there's a part of it that's
also, you know, damn kids, put down your phones, put down your
cameras and you know, have a have a fucking experience.
Why don't you? So I mean, there's there's some
elements of that where in it. And again, there are a lot of
elements where the dialogue is clearly written by someone who
doesn't understand the things he's talking about as well.

(30:50):
It's kind of like because I because I wouldn't say he's,
he's not full like shaking like like, you know, shaking his cane
from the porch like that. It's also because again, it's a
it's a hint of like, well, here,let me wait, let me see that
that Panasonic camera. I can, I can do this.
I can do some of this found footage handheld, like let me
see that. So it's it's a little bit of

(31:11):
that. So it's like, it's kind of the
vibes of like when Eminem puts out like a random like ass
shaking song and you're like, M,you're past this.
Come on, man, what are you doing?
It's kind of like that. Sir, you're in your 50s.
Calm down. Have a seat.
Happy guilt or twos, I'll have you, no.
Oh God I I have missed. That I've seen the clips, that's
actually kind of funny. Yeah.

(31:33):
So the other thing Romero does, he's like, hey, there's this
found footage thing and this is still, like pre Paranormal
Activity. Like, that movie would make its
premiere in festivals in 2007, but it's still two years away
from really, like, spurring thisrenaissance of, like, found
footage movies. Like, I don't think Cloverfield
had not even come out, but he's like intrigued by things like

(31:55):
The Blair Witch Project, although he calls that movie a
bit of a mess in like, really dizzying.
So say I want to do this right. So he's going to shoot on
handheld cameras and do this found footage thing.
And the idea is like because thebudget is so low, he can shoot
on the fly and do long takes andshoot multiple pages.

(32:15):
He talks about rather than doinglike 2 pages of filming a day,
he's able to get like 5 pages ofscript done in one day.
And I think maybe we'll talk about the problems that creates
when it comes to the performances later on.
Because Romero would talk how even though it was found footage
and handheld camera, he still uses Adop and he doesn't have

(32:39):
like the cast filming everything.
He's like, well they can't. They would suck at it.
So a lot of the things are very Corey.
There's like a lot of like long 1 takes and choreographs and
everything had to be precise in terms of movements.
And that didn't leave a lot of room for necessarily like,
nuanced performances. Which is interesting because he

(32:59):
says he's doing this because he wants the spontaneity of
improvisation, but everything's got to be so clearly planned out
that improvisation becomes impossible at that point.
Like, yeah, that's. Funny, it's a catch because I
was gonna like give him credit of being like, you know, like,
you know, he's trying to do a found footage movie like cuz and
in this era, a lot of film makers, especially of his

(33:20):
generation, were scoffing at found footage and you know like
whatever. So at first I was like, okay,
like cuz even if he he's almost doing it a service too much,
we'll get into the found footageaspect later.
But as far as like him over explaining his found footage, it
was actually kind of funny. So it's like a it's a weird of
him being like, OK, I can do this and I can improve on it.

(33:42):
So he's like that, like feels like him like trying to fill in
like the criticisms or like loopholes that other found
footage have gotten him been like, well, here, let me take my
traditional filmmaking and I canfix some of these things.
But in doing that, it goes against what the spirit of
fountain footage is mixed. 100% completely on board with you

(34:04):
there. So he does ask Greg Nicotero to
come back and oversee the practical effects work.
But Nicotero says like his workload is enough that he can't
be on set every day. So Nicotero recommended one of
his proteges, Kyle Glenn Cross, who had just started Gaslight
Studios. So it's Nick Nicotero overseeing

(34:27):
Kyle Glenn Gross and Chris Bridges partner in that.
And those who are really day-to-day doing all the work
and overseeing a small team, a Nicotero would come in and
oversee some of their work. He also has like a appearance as
a doctor, is one of the zombie doctors in the movie, which if
you remember how he met George Romero, is a kid.

(34:49):
Like he was going to go to medical school and become a
doctor and follow in his father's footsteps.
And eventually he was like, I just want to follow George
Romero around and started to work on things like Day of the
Dead, the special effects there.And he would go on to kind of be
the heir apparent to Tom Savini in a lot of ways in terms of
being the practical effects guruwhen it comes to horror movies.

(35:13):
Unfortunately, You know, Nick Ortero says, like, one of the
things like the challenge of this movie, and Savini talked
about this when he did Day of the Dead, that the practical
effects are a magic trick. Like the way that you cut in,
the way that you edit, you're able to do a lot of sleight of
hand and let the viewer's brain imagine what's going on.

(35:34):
You saw that with like like the characters of character of John
getting, not John, the characterof Miguel getting his arm cut
off in Day of the Dead and how amazing that look and how
visceral it felt. Well, here, because you have all
of these long takes, there's no real cutting away from it.
So there's a, and also because of the budget considerations of

(35:56):
Romero being like, we're just going to shoot, shoot, shoot and
save money that way. And then we can go on the back
end later on and do like more visual effects.
And you started to see the visual effects in Land of the
Dead, although they were used a lot more sparingly here.
Like it feels like this is driven much, much more by VFX

(36:17):
work and kind of appropriately like in the making of
documentary. This section on special effects
spends literally twice as much time on digital effects than it
does the practical effects, which just seems wrong.
They were handed by spin effectson a Toronto.
Kind of a little spoiler. If I were them, I don't think I
would use many things from this movie for their demo reel to

(36:39):
lure new clients in, even simplethings like the zombies in the
pool. Like rather than just have your
actors get in the pool, like, yeah, they do this complicated.
We're going to shoot the people on blue screen and then you
know, like it's really hard because the water is rippling.
So we're going to like render 3 because the.
Shop would go so hard if it wasn't so wonky looking like and

(37:03):
it's just first I was like, whoa, that's a striking image.
But then you look at it and it'slike like looks like a a window
looks like the. Screensaver.
It looks like The Sims. That's what it looks like.
It looks really bad and you're like, why can't you just put
like 5 people in a swimming pooland have them stand there for a
little bit like it's a 5 second shot?
Because you can't ruin the makeup.

(37:24):
And if you ruin the makeup, thenyou can't keep shooting.
So that's like another thing that's holding them back with
this like just no, we just need to keep shooting.
But then you're shooting too much and the makeup's falling
apart, and now you have. To go back and.
Fix though, and you have to fix that in visuals now after you've
worn down the makeup too much. They're all shot from behind.
Do you know what I mean? Like it's not even like you get

(37:44):
a close up of any of their facesand there's.
A couple, but then it's like theCGI blood splatter then too.
And then I mean, even at that point, like just hold cuz, you
know, just hold them until you know, the camera needs to go
outside and then you chase it out there.
Everyone's in the pool when theyneed to be and then you turn
away shortly after so everyone can come to the top and breathe.

(38:06):
You know, it's not, it's not toodifficult to do.
It's just logistically kind of anightmare, which.
I would venture to guess that ittook more time and energy to
create that in post production and cost just as much to do then
like cannonball into the pool and shoot it for a few seconds.
I mean, that's that's my opinion, but what do I know?

(38:27):
Romero does call in some favors.So some of the voice overs you
hear on television it, it's the work of his friends, Guillermo
del Toro, Quentin Tarantino, Stephen King, Wes Craven, Simon
Pegg. Like, they all record these
things over just the phone lines.
And he's like, just calls them up.
He's like, all right, go. And then they would read from

(38:48):
the script and then like literally just do one take of
it. Well, I wonder if that's why I
couldn't distinguish who is who because I saw that note before
before I started watching. So I was like, OK, let me try to
like keep an ear out. So if I can like see who is who,
I couldn't make out a single oneof them.
No, Stephen King's is fun. He does like the Baptist
preacher and he's like, get on your fucking knees for Jesus.

(39:11):
And he's like Stephen King is just kind of like, he's like
just a cutie. He's just like when he starts
like, well, get it ready for my Oscar.
And then like, goes into it, like, just, it's hard not to
love Stephen King. Sounds like how they filmed that
Eric Roberts talking cat movie, A Talking Cat, where they just
literally set up the recorder inhis living room and just let him
go one take. And then, yeah, we're just, they

(39:33):
just left. Thanks, Eric.
Bye. Yeah.
Oh Jesus. So.
Patreon special on a talking cat.
Oh my God jeez, do we do we do that?
Or all the Hellraiser movies? Like what would be the lesser of
what would be less pain? I don't think you need, I think
Devon and I are the last two people you need to ask that
question, right, because we havestrong opinions in the opposite.

(39:56):
Direction. Yeah, well, this has like a much
smaller release than Land of theDead.
Like it pulls in about 5 millionaltogether.
On a budget of like less than half of that, that's not too
bad. It opens and I think it only
gets like it doesn't even get to50 theaters.
Like it's a very limited release.
And that's the it's still biggerthan Survival is going to get,

(40:18):
but it's still coming off of Land of the Dead, which gets a
wide release and it's really championed and and pulls in good
three times its budget, but it'sreal.
Actors and real makeup effects and stuff like that.
You're working with a productionteam that just doesn't have the
money for. He really misses out on, like
you mentioned, Blumhouse, Devon,he really misses out on that

(40:42):
wave by like 5 years. Where if he had started five
years after with this next set of movies, you could very much
see Jason Blum saying here's 4 or $5,000,000 that's gonna make
gravy for. Blum House too, to.
Bring an arrow the. Name value.
That would have been huge for them.
Yeah, it would have been a win because, you know, Blum Houses

(41:04):
model has always been like, we're not going to give you a
lot of money, but you're going to get just about complete
creative freedom and then Universal would then distribute
it. So he would get which Universal
had distributed Land of the Dead.
So he would have gotten the bestof all Worlds does get a stellar
DVD and Blu-ray release. Like I have the Blu-ray of it.

(41:25):
It's like 9 bucks on Amazon. Why not?
So it comes out of DVD of like May of 2008 and then October
that year it's on Blu-ray, whichI think that was like, oh wait,
it's the first year. Like Blu-ray is actually a thing
Like that's very early in that format today.
But for like a you know, kind ofa lower end movie, it gets a
feature commentary, it gets likea full length making of

(41:46):
documentary. There's a Myspace short film
competition with like the five winners having like their short
zombie movies, like featured on the disc.
There are these character confessionals.
There's a bit more of like behind the scene items,
interviews, things like that. It's kind of like when you think
of like what Scream Factory doesor Vinegar Syndrome or Arrow,

(42:09):
it's kind of that level. And I'm not saying the features
are as good. Like when you watch a
documentary on Scream Factory that a Justin Beam or a Heather
Buckley produces, Like they tendto be really top notch.
And that's not this. But still like a lot of like you
really like a lot of items. If you give me more than four
bonus items, I'm happy. You know, that's like kind of

(42:32):
like the bare minimum for me. I hate like when you like, go to
the back and there's like one bullet point that's just like,
trailer real. Yeah, yeah.
It's like when they have interactive menus listed, you're
fucked. Because you're in for a good
time. Right.
Like that's, that's the bare minimum, right?
Interactive menus. What a feature.
Like, yeah, you can tell I've been collecting DVDs for a

(42:53):
while. I know.
And it's just like we used to bea country, you know, we used to
live in a world where we got really good things.
All right, well, that is the behind the scenes.
Let's talk briefly about this movie and I'll ask you both how
do you both feel like Romero handles the found footage aspect
of this? Movie.

(43:14):
So obviously I've been very passionate about found footage
on here. And The thing is he does just
like he does follow the rules. It's just he almost does it too
much to where again, it feels then it's like, well, now you're
calling the shots and you're doing everything too much.
Now it's just a regular movie. But I mean, I'll say I was

(43:35):
intrigued at the beginning when I thought it was going to be
more movie within the movie part.
But they like kind of just did that to like introduce it.
But but yeah, like it it was just like, yeah, very, very
strange. Like out the gate, be like, OK,
let me the the gal explain to you.
OK, just so you guys know, I didmake some editing cuts.

(43:57):
I did add some music here and there.
I am trying to scare you. It's like, girl, what do you
mean? It's already if it's already
real zombies, we're going to be scared to begin with.
What are you talking about? Like in the in the universe that
is. So her talking to us, the
audience, I thought was very silly and very ridiculous and
overplayed its hand the the moment.
Bringing that back to and it gets really old.

(44:18):
Yeah, there's like these like weird like interstitials that
she does. The moment that sent me though,
that I thought was fucking funnybecause again, it almost feels
like responding to criticisms ofother found footage when people
are like, hey, how did they get that angle from something?
I love the bit where they're at the the militia bunker and
fucking guys like he goes, oh man, I wish I would have gotten

(44:41):
the the angle of us driving in from the security Cam and
Elliot. It's like already did I got it.
I AirDrop got it from the from their server.
It's like my Got and they were editing the film like on the go,
like in the bunk. That's the scene that like
really sent me that it almost feels like he's trying to like
make. He's going to be like nobody's

(45:03):
going to criticize my found footed.
It is going to be airtight and it's like now that you're doing
too much. The scene that did it for me was
when they arrive at Elliot's house at the end, and Jason's
like, wait, wait, wait. Everybody step outside and like,
walk back in again. I want to capture that.
And that's what drove me nuts. I'm like, are we really?
They did that a couple times. Hey, say that again.

(45:24):
I didn't quite catch it. Yeah.
Like. My partner, like you Devon, is a
is a pretty big proponent of found footage.
She she went through a phase where she just watched a ton of
found footage movies and she waswatching this one with me.
And one of her major points of criticism was the fact that the
camera would, the camera knew who was going to talk.
Like you get this really neat pan over to someone and then

(45:46):
they would deliver a line. Not like someone starts talking
and then the camera pans over. Or you get those moments where
the guy shoots the bow and arrowand then get the camera turns
over and he's like right there, like perfectly framed about to
deliver a badass line. And you're just like, OK, is
George Romero too good? And I'm using air quotes when I
say too good. Is he too good of a filmmaker to
make this kind of moving? Yeah, I don't exactly trust

(46:09):
Jason's intuition on getting these shots, like ahead of, you
know, anticipating shots and things like that.
Right. Yeah.
There's a, there's a like a few different things there.
The like again, like them deciding it was very weird
because there was this back and forth of them criticizing Jason
for wanting to shoot stuff. But then there would be other

(46:30):
scenes where like shit's going down and rather than like try to
help the other people too, like whether it be Tony or Deborah,
then they just will start filming too.
So they like they pick and choose when to start drama over
Jason even doing this film to begin with.
But then it's like, but hey, we need the coverage make.
Sure. You get easily culpable here,

(46:50):
yeah. Yeah, you get the angles again,
also in the hospital when she walks out with a random camera
and goes, hey guys, I found this.
Good thing we have two cameras now in the hospital, like right.
Yeah, Jason. We'll talk about Jason because
he might be one of the more insufferable characters that
we've dealt with God on this show.

(47:12):
It's really hard to follow him around for like 90 minutes of a
movie. It's a It's a big ask.
Well, yeah. Well, let's talk about that now
because as far as like Romero folding in found footage, is
Jason meant to be a stand in forRomero criticizing his legacy or
is he, I hope is he criticizing the younger generation?

(47:33):
So I feel. Like Deborah is, I don't think
he's necessarily criticizing theyounger generation.
I think Deborah is more of the stand in for Romero's like point
of view, like right down to the chain smoking.
Like I feel like she's more of an avatar of that.
I feel like with the found footage angle, it's Romero
figuring out how to do this, like very quick and easy and not

(47:56):
having a lot of time to shoot with, but also not willing to
sacrifice. You know, when we talked about
Dawn of the Dead, part of the reason, like when they wanted to
convert it to 3D, it was so difficult was because of the way
that Romero stage and frame shots.
He has a very specific vision and mind.
So he has it played out in his head and he's still doing that

(48:19):
here. Where is like with a lot of
found footage movies, there is abit more of an improvisation
that goes with it, whether that's like how it is filmed or
whether it's the dialogue. Like when you look at, like, The
Blair Witch Project, for example, there are scenarios,
yeah, like the three actors playing the characters would get
every morning. Like, this is the scenario.

(48:42):
Mike, you have kicked the map inthe stream.
Heather and Josh don't know thatgo.
Like, it would be a lot of improv and they would playoff of
one another. And that's why I think there's
like, hundreds of hours of footage when it comes to that.
He's not willing to give in to that.
He still wants a traditionally made movie just using this new

(49:04):
technique. And that's why it's very true.
So ham fisted. When?
Deborah at the beginning is like, like you had said, you
know, we have music and we have I'm trying to scare you, like
letting you know, like I want tomake a traditional movie.
I think the only times that works in this style of film is

(49:24):
if it's a pure mockumentary likeLake Mungo or which I thought I
thought they were going to do that for.
A SEC too, but then it's like, no, it's really just like this
own like personal, like, you know, project manifesto type
deal. I think Devon, when you and I
talked about. That movie for your show, I had

(49:46):
always taken the approach that The Last Exorcist is like a
recruitment video for the cult. Like at the end of the day,
they're like, hey, join our cult, watch this.
This is what we're capable of. And that's why there's like,
Stingers and Amuse score to that.
So that's always been my opinion.
We're here. It's like you don't need to pull
the curtain back that much, likeyou don't trust your audience

(50:06):
enough. And I think that, like, to your
point, that's Romero not being the old man that yells at the
clouds, but being someone like my mom who just learned how to
text last year. It's 78 years old.
And it is sometimes very adorable when she tries to text
me. Like what you get for results,
right and and. There's also, again, like, not

(50:30):
sure where this character falls on Romeros directorial
introspection, the film Professor Maxwell.
Yeah, yeah, this guy. Is.
You know, very, very funny and again, like talking about like
the on the nose dialogue of oh, you want to record some sorts of
diary? No, this is a diary of cruelty.

(50:51):
And then so it's like, OK, so now is that you're clear the
diary of the dead. Let's.
Let's make that clear right now.So then it's like is that?
Character him like kind of commenting on the state of the
horror genre like of the why areyou watching this for
entertainment and making making this a super somber zombie movie

(51:11):
because it really is like even though it's very corny and over
the top like dramatic, this movie is very serious and
somber. So like it almost feels like
that character is also being like, why would you enjoy
watching a zombie movie? They're supposed to be sad.
They're supposed to be, you know, upsetting, right?
And so. Then like kind of.
Grappling with that back and forth, like because again, they

(51:33):
spend the entire movie deciding back and forth, oh, why are you
recording this? But we're also recording this,
but why are you recording this moment?
But we should still record this.So it's like, you know, very
interesting what they were kind of doing without Maxwell, who
was he was kind of funny. He was one of the more
entertaining performances like him, you know, his priorities,

(51:53):
drinking and his, you know, trauma from his like past
military life or whatever. Like he's kind of, there's
something with this character here, but it also became like
very grating. I couldn't take him after all,
it's why are you there with your?
Film students like watching themmake this like super low budget
movie. And the only reason I could come

(52:15):
up with is like he is there to try to like bang one of the
coeds. Like that's really 100% all that
guy would be. About or.
Relive the He would be a bit more of a ledge, you know, or
reliving the. Glory days because he very much
seems like this is like one of those professors that like very
much burnt out of like, you know, trying to be a filmmaker
person himself and it's maybe jaded about teaching these young

(52:38):
film makers. So maybe a little bit of that as
well. That was such a random joke for
a kids movie and wants to think what like what's the puce file?
He's like that's puce. That's Pierce.
I mean, it's one of those. Colours.
It's it was one of those joke colours even when I was a kid
where one second. I'm sorry guys.
Give me one second no worries that like move.

(53:00):
Like just one of those, one of those colors that just was a
punch line in and of itself. So funny.
I always appreciate. Those little things.
What episode was I listen to? Because I know I listen to your
guys loop in the third episode recently.
Oh thank you. No, I.
Decided I think. The quintessential
disenfranchised episode is the Total Recall one.

(53:21):
It's got everybody. It's got it's got everybody.
You have Tucker trying to convince himself that he hates
this movie when I'm pretty sure he likes it.
He got to the end of that conversation.
I was like, I don't know, it sounds like you like this movie,
Tucker. But it's like convincing himself
that he hates it. That is 100% his MO.
Like I I started with this opinion and damn you if you're

(53:43):
going to make me change it. Yeah, that's his MO 100%.
Yeah, it was a. It was a really.
Funny one to listen to. Thank you so much, but the the.
Loop in one was. Also funny because like this is
a great movie to talk about, butalso Indiana 40 minute.
Oh my God, that and that tends to.
Happen when when we get together, particularly now that

(54:03):
Tucker has moved back to town. Gotcha.
But yeah, he moved back, I think.
Last month or so, So within the past month, he's there's been a
lot more Indiana talk. But yeah, I mean, yeah, that,
that, that definitely, I mean. Obviously that happens with me
and Garrett and it'll happen a little bit less now that will be
separated recording, but at the same time we both still have the

(54:24):
same knowledge. So yeah, it's like absolutely.
Especially on Patreon. Our Patreon episodes gets a lot
of LA brag talk in it. Like this is what you.
Guys pay for I can't. Fucking blame you?
No, I'd do. The same, the same damn thing.
And of course, now, anytime, once you once you move back over
here, you and I are gonna every podcast you and I are on
together is gonna end up devolving into about 20 minutes

(54:46):
at least of Chicago talk. So exactly.
Exactly. Although I am in South burbs
right now so. Well, so so I'm actually so at
the end of this. Month I'm actually moving back
to Saint Louis and Saint Louis OK, so I'm.
Gonna stay there for. Like a year and then once that
lease is up, then go to Chicago.Chicago's still the plan, but my

(55:06):
family just very much misses me.I miss them.
And it'll be a nice kind of recenter for a moment before
going to the next big city. But even still, I'll be like
going back and forth between Chicago like all the time until
I do actually move there. Well, sometime when you're in
town. Let Ari and I know and the three
of us can get together and do a Midwest converge, yes?

(55:27):
Pot and pendulum. Meet up.
Yes, we. Will converge.
We'll do it. That'll be awesome.
So you guys? Are all going to be relatively
close to one another? Ari is only like a couple hours
from me, right? Now, nice, I'm actually going to
be heading up her way sometime later this year to record some
stuff for Wells University, so that would be fun.
All good was a good news. Yeah, it was not a good thing.

(55:48):
It was like some. Monday posting some like self
harm stuff online that I know a little bit but don't have any
contact information for. So I reached out to a couple
folks to ask like can you check in on this person?
Oh my God, I'm so sorry. Yeah.
So it's just like. No, I'm no.
That's that's far more importantthan anything we can talk about

(56:10):
with this movie in particular. But yeah, soldier on.
With this sorry ever onward I had something.
We were talking about the professor.
That was kind of where we left off about the professor.
Doing like Hawkeye cosplay and trying to like hit on coeds and
yeah, that was a fucking the. Fucking that was a funny thing.

(56:31):
Yeah. You know, again, like throughout
the movie, there's this arguing back and forth about this like
sense of morality and whatnot. And like his whole thing of so
yeah, I used to be in the military.
I got too used to killing. And instead of being like oh now
it's OK to re engage with those feelings and skills, he goes Nah

(56:53):
I'm going to make it harder on myself and switch to bow and
arrow because he quote says it seems friendlier.
Feels friendlier right? Bro although although I will say
that kill where he pins that child, that zombie child through
the forehead was and that is that is probably my favorite
thing about this movie is that the zombie kills feel far more

(57:15):
inventive in this movie than a lot of the past entries.
Like, you get the defibrillator in the hospital.
Yeah, the eyes explode. That's.
Fun the one where the one where homie like sticks his gun
through the one that he just shot and then shoots another one
like, and then like there's there's some moments where you
can like see that like Romero got a little inspired.

(57:37):
He thought of something he hadn't done yet and was like,
oh, this would be fun. So there's like there's a couple
moments there where it's like, oh, OK, like that was fun.
That was unique hydrochloric acid, that was.
That was a great, that was actually a really great scene.
Like back and forth of like waiting for it because they like
couldn't shoot the the gasoline tanks.
That was a that was a fun set, alittle set piece, right?

(57:58):
And it just kind of slowly. Eroding his his head until he
just falls over like it's very creative zombie kills in this
movie. And that was the thing that kept
me on the hook is for for the low budget, the creativity with
regard to the kills, I think wasreally on full display in this
one. And it it that's, that's what

(58:18):
kept me engaged. That's the thing that keeps this
from being a complete slog of a film for me, is those kind of
moments of levity through those really creative.
Zombie, the sword. He just slices that dude's head
open. Fucking great.
Like, so, so fucking fun. Well, I think of Romero's
commenting. On anything in this movie, he's

(58:38):
commenting on other film makers like doing their kind of zombie
movies and talking about like you see that the beginning with
like Jason's film, like the Mummy movie and he's like, no,
you're slow moving. You'll get them eventually when
you need to get to them, like don't worry about it.
And Romero, like, if he's commenting on anything, he's
commenting about movies like Wreck and Day of the Dead and

(59:01):
this proliferation of like in 28Days Later where he's like, it
doesn't make any sense. And that's like his old man at
the cloud moment where he's like, no, he has.
To be this. Way it's like if you watch dumb
and if you watch there's something about Mary and the
dude who wants to do like the eight minute 7 minute AB video

(59:22):
and Ben's there's like what if someone does a 6 minute AB video
and the guy freaks out like thatfeels like Romero's moment, but
then again, but then again he. Also does still take a little
dig at himself too, even in thatscene, because like the person's
like he's like blah, blah. And then he goes, the other guy
goes, well, who's doing a Mummy movie anyways.
And that's basically Romero alsostill being like, well, who's

(59:44):
making zombie movies anyways? So even he's still making his
angry old man statement. But at least he does still have
the awareness to be like, hey, don't get me wrong, Hey, look at
me, I'm doing it right now. We always had a bit of a sense
of humor. We were like right in the
totally. So I mean.
Everyone's making zombie, yeah. Exactly.

(01:00:05):
Well, exactly. I was talking about like his
like kind of reluctance to come back.
He's like, don't get me wrong, He's like, hey, I'm back.
Like I'm I'm doing these movies again too, you know, but it kind
of like a little funny kind of dig in there.
The, I think the, the, the kind of structure also like is kind
of what mainly kept me engaged with again, it being this like

(01:00:26):
road trip movie that like jumps from like chunk to chunk like
little video game levels. And it's kind of like a Little
Mix tape of the, the various zombie movies we've seen.
It's like, OK, we got like the breakout and then now we got the
hospital scene. Now we got the, you know, you
know, militia bunker scene. And then now we get the, the
rich kid mansion scene. And, you know, and they kind of

(01:00:48):
really ends up with a siege. Yeah.
And then and of course. And that ends up with the siege
still like he really kind of hits like a little like Little
Mix tape of like classic zombie scenarios through this.
I just felt like even within those scenes though.
Like there was a sameness to them, like the empty hospital,
the empty go from the empty college to the empty hospital to

(01:01:10):
the empty barn to the empty bunker to the empty house, to
another empty house. Like.
And it wasn't. Starts slow, nothing's going on,
and then there's a small attack and then we bicker for a bit and
then there's a big attack and now we got to go to the next,
you know, location. It's almost anthology.
Yeah, yeah. A little bit.

(01:01:32):
But like but again like I. Kind of liked the kind of
different flavors that certain ones brought.
Like when they get to the the rich kids house and like he's
all delirious and you're like, at first I was just like, oh,
he's rich and they're just like hanging out doing a bunch of
drugs or something, which I thought that would have been
cool, but that wasn't the case. He was like, no, he's delirious
because like he like had to quote UN quote bury his family

(01:01:56):
and all the staff members in thepool.
I was like, so like it had this like kind of weird vibe to it.
Like when you like show up to this house and you're like, oh,
everything's going to be safe and like he's all like bugged
out from the situation. I was like, that's kind of like
AI thought it was like a weird flavor.
I thought it was interesting. He was still in his.
Zombie costume like 2 days laterYeah, two days and.

(01:02:19):
He's like. I could change or, you know, and
I don't know if that's like Romero not trusting the audience
to remember who he was. So I was going to say, have I
kind of put him in? This.
Here's the question if he weren't.
Wearing that, would you have recognized that actor by his
face? Right.
It's not like a gunner. Hanson situation where like, no,

(01:02:41):
we have so little money we only have this outfit.
Like the man I'm sure did not show up to set in the mummy
costume and could have worn likea hoodie in a pair of jeans if
he wanted to. But we had to do that here.
So it's Speaking of insufferable.
Let's talk talk about Jason and Deborah, because Romeo and

(01:03:02):
Juliet star crossed lovers like this is not and fuck no, it
hurts to watch. Like I can only imagine being in
like the in the Winnebago with them and just hearing these two
just fight decree. Manifestos at each other back
and forth like they are both so annoying and it's the same

(01:03:24):
conversation every. Time there's no very over yeah,
yeah, they both have two very. Different.
Perspectives and they can't cometo any sort of agreement, but
they just can't help themselves.They just have to keep doing it
all the fucking time. Yeah it it's the scene that
really got me because it also plays into the George Romero.
Not that great. It found footage is there's that

(01:03:44):
long shot that that conversationwas like, well, if it's not on
camera, it didn't happen. And they're having this like
intimate conversation. And there are, I kid you not, no
fewer than 5 edits within that one conversation.
I'm like, George, you could not get unusable single take.
You had to edit that thing 5 fucking times.
Really. And they're obvious too, because

(01:04:06):
he adds a little beep every timehe adds an edit.
And then like, but the conversation isn't like jumping
to a different point. We're picking it right where we
left off. So the fact that there's an edit
makes it very clear that this was you.
You feel multiple takes and thenjust picked the five moments
from those takes that you liked the best rather than just
picking one that you could live with.

(01:04:26):
Like it. My God, it I think drove to
like. The way that scene starts is
like you get the voice over where the character of Deborah
is like it was a one way conversation.
And then it's not a one way conversation.
Like it's a lot of back and forth.
Like we can't even get the voiceover correct in these moments,
which is like really bizarre. You know, poor Michelle Morgan.

(01:04:48):
Like, it feels like she's patterned after Elijah Dushku
and Faith from Buffy the VampireSlayer.
Like, right to the hairstyle andthe way, like, her style of
clothes and like, the kind of the cadence with which she
speaks. Yeah, I was about to say she has
like a. She has like a stance and like a

(01:05:09):
like a face that she's doing that is even emulating it.
And I was like, Oh my God, it was like.
Every time she like. Spoke.
She spoke like there was a spotlight on her.
Yeah. I mean, I guess there's a camera
on her. But like, but she would like,
like, kind of again, like, that's what like, gave this,
like, slam poetry vibe. But whenever she's just, like,
spouting just, like, you know, really random things that are

(01:05:31):
supposed to. It's US against them.
Except they are US. I was like, girl, calm down.
It's main character syndrome. It is I was like chill out but
it also. Reeks of like stage actor.
On screen for the first time kind of stuff too, like the over
emotion, like the like really playing up the signature.
She's a classic like Back of theHouse.

(01:05:52):
Yeah, she's like a classic smallblack box theater actor.
And this is. This is what happens when you're
like, OK, we have these long takes and we have to stage it
and we can't, like, cut and redo, cut and redo.
So you're getting like these, like, did you deliver the line?
Great. We'll just go ahead and use it.
Like it's going to say, like she's gone on to have, like in

(01:06:15):
Canada, a pretty successful television career.
Like, she's been on a couple shows where she's been a
recurring character. She was on one for about 50
episodes where she was like the lead character in Heartland.
Heartland, Yeah, which was like a ran for 15 years.
You know, it's not like this as a person with no talent, she's

(01:06:37):
just not utilized well here. Just the way like Romero writes
her character to be as unlikableas possible.
And she's supposed to be our point of view character at the
end of the day. Like just little things like
when OK, we know Jason is like filming everything and he wants
to do like a character introduction.
Like who are you? Where are you?
Stuff that you would always do at the start of a documentary.

(01:07:01):
And her response is like, if youdon't know who I am right now,
then you better get your stuff out of my closet.
And it's like, girl, you know why he's doing this, you know?
And she just takes every opportunity.
Like Jason sucks. Like, I'm not defending Jason.
Like he he'll get his flowers here in a minute.
We're coming for him in a minute.

(01:07:21):
But it just feels like it just felt like even if there wasn't a
zombie apocalypse going on, Deborah feels like the kind of
partner that exists to cut down her partner's dreams.
Every step along the way. It's like, how do we like, you
just want to make your film? And it's.
Like, yeah, that's what he's in fucking film school for.

(01:07:45):
Like, duh. Like, yes, he does want to make
films. Like when he's.
Like you used to always shoot better than me.
She's like, I know that's why I stopped.
And it's like, oh, fuck, you know, she's just, she did have
house like that. She didn't.
Have one bar she she had one barthat I liked during the

(01:08:06):
voiceover. It was like during the
voiceover, whenever we have likewe're cutting to random footage
that she got she even I love howshe even took like external
clips and B roll, but during thevoiceover and then she goes, we
don't stop to help. We stop to look and I was like,
OK, you cooked one time, but that's it.
As the one I'll give you. That's the one I'll give you,

(01:08:26):
Deb. But her decision to end?
To like, stick behind like I'm going to finish the film.
It's so unearned. Like Devon, you and I were
talking about together the new Allison Brie and Dave Franco
film and how the end of that film feels completely unearned
and comes like almost like, hey,this movie can't be two hours

(01:08:47):
long. Let's cut 15 minutes of
character development. It feels like that here as well.
At the end of this movie, she's like, I'm just going to, if she
were to say like, I'm going to stick behind and stay in this
panic room that has a lot of food and they can't get in and
there's like APS 4 here, I'm just going to chill here and
wait this out. Like that I could get behind,

(01:09:09):
but her decision, like I'm goingto finish Jason's movie, which I
really hated the whole time. I don't know, unless you think
she's going to get like an awardat like the Tribeca Film Fest,
like put her name on it and justit was no beginning.
It's his movie. Like it's it.
She credits it to Jason. Like but it's like y'all didn't
work anything. Out this entire movie, the

(01:09:30):
entire movie, you guys write each other's throat bickering
and like literally never you do.The end you did.
Not like work anything out. So yeah, it's yeah, it comes off
a very shallow. And again, it's like kind of
almost this like in vain thing of again, like, yeah, even
though she's showing at the festival and she's crediting
him, that still plays into it all.
You know, that still plays into,you know, glorifying her main

(01:09:53):
character syndrome even more. Yeah.
So she's she's, yeah, very annoying.
I feel like she gives him creditbecause.
As she's editing it, she's like,this is a real piece of shit and
I don't want to put my name on it.
So she's like, just so everybodyknows, this is Jason's.
This is Jason who? All right, Jason.
Probably one of the most insufferable characters we've

(01:10:16):
had to follow. Like not an inch of sympathy for
what anyone is going through. Completely unhelpful during this
whole situation. Like George Romero wanted to
capture what it would be like tolike make a student film and I
feel like he did too good of a job because this is like a such
a bad student movie. I'm like, dude, you made the end

(01:10:39):
of the world seem boring. Yes, even the characters that
we. Hate in the Blair Witch Project
are still compelling. What do you guys hate in the
Blair Witch Project? Like you're.
Going to say Heather, aren't you?
No. I'm not.
I'm going to say you're. Going to say Heather Mike
Little. Mikey, I hate Mike, not you, I.
Love you Mike. I hate Mike in the Blair Witch
Projects. OK, but I mean.

(01:11:03):
I mean, he's. He kicks the fucking map in the.
Stream Mike, that map was useless and he knew.
Everyone knew it. No, it was OK.
They were. They were caught in a spectral
whatever the fuck, but like theycould have potentially gotten
out of their head. They had the Josh is the shitty
one I. Love, I love that we all have.
Opinions on this? But but but still, Jason is

(01:11:23):
worse than all of those motherfuckers like and those
those guys are legitimately screaming at each other for most
of that movie. And yet still Jay comes off as
that much worse in this like there's nothing redeemable about
this piece of shit guy. And at the end when he's like
giving his creed, like I'm goingto capture it.
You're just like, you're a fucking douchebag.
You got yourself and several of your friends killed.

(01:11:45):
Fuck you. Like it doesn't do anything to
redeem him. I don't.
I mean, I don't hate Jason. I don't hate him because he gets
he's kind of a he gets to a point where he's such a non
factor. And I don't know if that's
either a because I've seen this character so many times.
You like the person, the driven filmmaker and the way he it
affects his relationships with those around him.

(01:12:07):
But at the same time, like I think this movie also benefits
from like they are mostly using his shots.
Like that is even built into like the subplot, like you don't
want to be the one on camera. You don't like it when we turn
it around on you. But at the same time, since the
fact that Jason really isn't on screen most of the time, like

(01:12:28):
most of his performance is voiceover, I'm kind of a little
bit more detached from him and he doesn't bother me as much.
Like he might as well just be a talking camera at that point.
I'm like, OK, oh, that was a funny.
That was a good one. Camera like, yeah, like that
point you made, camera. Like he's really kind of not
even a person after that. Like he's just camera I do
appreciate. Like one thing I want to say I

(01:12:49):
do like about this is I do what's unfortunate and not being
like a particularly well made movie is I think it has a very
strong, clear, coherent message about these new digital medias
that are popping up. Like you have, you know, now,
although like the iPhone wasn't out yet, like digital film

(01:13:09):
technology and handheld technology.
He'd gotten to a degree where just about anybody could afford
to film and could afford to maketheir own movie.
I mean, you look at 28 Days Later had come out a few years
before this and that was shot onSony consumer grade camcorders.
Like that's what that movie was shot on.

(01:13:30):
Like you could do this. And Romero is looking at when
the larger press gets involved, the larger press being basically
in cahoots with government organizations, and the cover up
begins like what starts out the footage to have the truth.
Yep, but what starts out? As and but is ham fist is that's

(01:13:51):
delivered. What do we not see today?
But like media organizations that are all about worried about
losing access. Like you have the Maggie
Haberman school of journalism where it's like I am going to
save this for my book. And you end up finding out such
super important pieces of information that are really

(01:14:12):
damning on politicians that you don't publish in the moment
because you're worried about losing access.
Or you see, you know, like, we're seeing this with, like,
the Mandami mayoral race in The New York Times, where The New
York Times is saying things like, oh, there's an SAT

(01:14:32):
scandal. He did not do as well on his
Sats as you would have expected him to do to get into the
prestigious Ivy League school. People are talking about this.
Well, the only reason people aretalking about it is because
you've invented this issue wholecloth.
Like, so you're seeing mainstream media, not even
misinformation, but media manipulation.

(01:14:54):
Whereas like at the start of thefilm, you're getting like local
news broadcast footage and it's being shown as it's happened.
Like the camera's not lying to you.
You get like the little snippetsof like the character in Tokyo
who's on YouTube, YouTube sayingit's very bad here in Tokyo, the
dead or rising. And it's not your professionals

(01:15:15):
that are pushing this forward. It is like the people on the
ground that Romero saying there's a whole world of, like,
video journalists and bloggers in this predates Twitter being a
thing. But this idea that there's going
to be all of this access to information, how do we sort
through it? Why yeah, I love.
The the modern. Or the the the context from when

(01:15:38):
this came out that like big numbers.
He was like, babe, MD 7000 I'm reaching the masses.
It's like, oh, that's cute. Like, I mean, like I could, you
know, like, you know, people getthat on little 15 second Tik
Toks now. But like, yeah, you know, so
kind of funny, you know, recontextualizing back to the
2008 or, you know, and like whatthe they kind of spread because

(01:16:00):
again, like, you know, YouTube was fairly new at this point.
So it was like kind of this new thing.
But then I was also confused. I was like, well, how long do we
think that like the Internet andphone grids would last during
these like, kind of, you know, with how fast this outbreak is
seemingly happening? And so, you know, I always kind
of had a little question that I love when they're in the militia

(01:16:22):
bunker and he's like, hey, can Igo online?
They're like, yeah, in the back.You know, it was very wholesome
to watch early or mid aughts Internet stuff.
It's kind of very funny, very nostalgic in a weird way, it.
Does speak. To that addiction that.
You know, I'd say we now have like, I would say like one of

(01:16:43):
the worst, one of the most damaging inventions is the
smartphone. Like we're all addicted to it.
We're all addicted to these little dopamine hits from reels
and hits and views. I would kill for 72,000
downloads for this show in like an hour.
Like, are you kidding me? Like if we we do not approach
anything close to that level on our best day.

(01:17:04):
So like, that is a pipe dream. But even within that moment, you
see like as soon as he sees the numbers, you see the wheels
turning in Jason's head. And like the mission changes
now, it's no longer about, well,we got to get the truth out
there. It's like once you get that
taste of success, when do you start becoming more of a

(01:17:24):
manipulator of the media? And it's predicting like
influence or culture in a lot ofways.
You know, and maybe it's a bit ham fisted and a bit kludgy
because I don't think any of us could predict in 2008 this is
what the media landscape and it's going to look like less
than two decades from now. Yeah.
And it's. Like, you know, it gets to a

(01:17:46):
point to where it's like, yeah, like how much good is it doing,
you know, versus, you know what you could be doing, you know,
versus like there's like a one point whenever the militia
captain guy is like, oh, what are you recording for?
And he like said something is like, well, who's going to be
left to watch? And I was like, that's a great
point. Like, you know, like it's like,

(01:18:08):
so at some point, Jay, I want you start using that camera as
like a hammer and start bashing some heads in, you know, versus
him just being like, no, that's Oh my God, you're you got bit.
I would do something, but I gotta get the shot.
Can you actually stay in frame? I know you just got bit, but can
you stay in frame for me for a SEC?
Like man, it's a shame I have tostand here and film.
This otherwise I could actually like help you.

(01:18:30):
Well, that's the other thing that's so.
Upsetting about this movie is like, I know we often say we
asked like, why are they filming?
Why are you have to kind of let go of that conceit?
But there are at least three instances in this movie where
multiple people are filming as their friends are being
attacked. There's a point where the 2
camera. People look at each other, yeah.

(01:18:52):
While they're look at each otherwhile they're.
Filming the thing. Being like, shouldn't we do
something? They're both like and that's
we're getting really good. Coverage right now.
This will take care itself. I'm.
Sure, I think we should. Keep doing this.
This is more important, actually, Yeah.
And that's where you get like the real.
Ham fisted line like where like the professor gives away the

(01:19:12):
gun. He's like, take this, it's too
easy to use. And then Deborah like 30 seconds
later does the same thing with the camera and it's like, OK, we
get it. We absolutely get it.
And then you Fast forward to theend when like Jason is bit and
his last line is shoot me. That's like a double entendre,
like a shooting in the head. But also make sure you capture

(01:19:33):
this on camera. And it's like it's, it's like
it's so ham fisted. It's just annoying.
Love her other line. Don't.
Try to speak just shoot but not a gun the camera it's like a
girl yeah we get it girly and when he says just shoot me he.
Hands the camera and like you like the other camera like zooms

(01:19:55):
in on the camera that he's that he's been holding the whole
movie and you're just like that that one show starring Drew.
Carey Yeah. No, that was, that was David
Spade. Not Drew Carey, David Spade.
Yeah. And Enrico Cohen, Tony, Wendy.
Shaw, George Siegel. What?
What is fucking wrong with me? I'm sorry.
Was it Linda Cardelli? No, that's.
Your no cardellini. No.

(01:20:18):
She's in Freaks and. Geeks.
Yeah, only she was into shootingme, but who am I thinking of?
Thinking of someone. Beautiful.
I don't know. Speaking of, I work Andrew Como.
Yes, thank you. Sorry, go ahead.
Devon, Speaking of. Casts and.
Things. I think one thing that usually
holds zombie movies back, it's like almost all zombie movies
have to have a big ensemble cast.

(01:20:40):
Like small 2-3 character zombie movies don't really work all
that well unless you're the battery.
I mean, yeah, there's. A I'm not saying there's no.
Exceptions, but it just almost baked into the premise because
zombies is a societal outbreak, pandemic type deal.
They almost always have to have ensembles, which makes it suffer

(01:21:03):
from when you have just a movie filled with so many characters
that you barely get to like, youknow, know of anything.
Like there's a lot of charactersand they really do take at least
half the movie before they like really start trimming them down.
Like I mean like like that that that scene in the hospital goes
on a little bit too long becausethere's too many any of them and

(01:21:24):
there's just got to be like, we got to give everybody something
to do in this hospital. So therefore the hospital scene
ended up going too long. As they progress and the cast
gets smaller, then the like little segments kind of get
leaner and they get a little bitmore focused.
But like early on when there's just so many people in this cast
and like so many of them are bad.

(01:21:46):
It's like gal with country accent, don't know what she's
all about. And then there's I like Tracy.
She's the mess with Texas, Devon.
Yeah. Don't mess with.
Texas there was. There was Gordo.
The the guy that like he's like the designated shooter for like
the group for the bit and he's like struggling morally.

(01:22:06):
So that guy, that actor, he was a power Ranger.
He was he was the blue Ranger and Power Rangers SPD.
Yes, I'm a Power Rangers nerd, OK, and very funny.
One of the regulars at my bar iswas the red Ranger on this same
team and it's the guy with dreadlocks and Tucker and Dale

(01:22:28):
versus evil that guy. He's a regular at my bar.
And he's not very proud of his Power Rangers history.
When I brought it up, he like, rolled his eyes.
And I was like, bro, I'm trying to give you, like, actual props.
But the guy in this movie, Michael Violet, He was the Blue
Ranger in of that iteration. He also had an uncredited role

(01:22:50):
in Return To. Sleep away camp I'm seeing here.
Hey, there we go, Genre Daddy I.Guess I so.
I like Tracy. I thought Amy Lalonde, who plays
Tracy, like the girl from Texas,she's fun and her whole thing
and she's like, fuck it, I'm just getting out of here and
taking the van with me. Like, she had the best idea out
of anybody there. And if there's one thing I do

(01:23:13):
like, and maybe we end on, like a note of appreciation is how
the end of the film, like, her plight when she's getting chased
by the mummy zombie, it like, mirrors exactly what happened at
the beginning. And he's like, look, I told you
they'd move really slow. Like, I was like, all right.
That's actually a bit of like the cheeky humor that Romero can

(01:23:33):
do. It's definitely forced in,
wedged in, but it's so bad. It's good.
I did like that in this movie. I would also like to shout out.
My dude, George Bouza, who playsthe biker who's stealing the TV
from the dorm, when he goes backto get Deb, that is, he's one of
my he's one of my guys. He was the voice of Beast in

(01:23:55):
X-Men and X-Men 97. It's just like, yeah, yeah.
No, none was. So funny and he is just like.
One of those. Like great Canadian actors who's
been in fucking everything. He's even in the the X-Men
Movie, he plays the truck driverthat drops Rogue off at the
Canadian bar where she meets Wolverine.
Like he's just, he's one of those guys that just does shit.

(01:24:18):
And I recognized him immediatelyand I got so excited.
And then he's just like out of the movie.
And I was so bummed. I was like, George Bouza.
Yeah. And he's gone.
I'm like, what are you? What are you doing in here?
I'm stealing shit. What are you doing here?
What are you? What are you doing?
Girl video camera I also. Liked didn't like the character,

(01:24:38):
but the character Elliot, he hada moment that I really liked the
one in the hospital whenever he's stabbing that one zombie.
And it's like the point where he's like trying to like, like
wake everybody up being like, look, guys, we are not in a real
situation. I'm stabbing it in the heart and
it's not dying. And he's like, do you see what's

(01:25:00):
happening? Like I thought that was a really
funny because I always hate likehow long that takes in these
movies sometimes of being like, OK, hey, you got to wrap your
head, your mind around this likemuch quicker than than you know
where we're going here. And I've really liked that
scene. It's just like, OK, let's get
everybody on the same level, everybody except the situation.

(01:25:20):
We can proceed now the rest of the movie without having to
convince somebody that zombies are a thing, which once again,
this movie does not say. This movie has the silliest
sidestep. They keep saying they're
walking, but dead. Yeah.
Which is yeah, because Greg Nicotero go on, do Walking Dead

(01:25:41):
not too long after. But.
So Romero was asked about that. Romero was asked like, why
people don't know like what zombies are and how to act.
His answer was like, well, my movies don't exist in this
world. Like this is the reboot.
Like he's like, I kind of invented that sub genre.
Like he's like when you think ofzombie movies before Night of
the Living Dead, you think of like the Haitian voodoo movies

(01:26:04):
and people that are like puttingothers under and having them do
their bidding. Like you don't think of The
Walking Dead type of, you know, the Dead Rising up from the
grave. So he's like, that wouldn't
exist in this world because he'sbe frank.
He's like flexing. He's like, I invented this shit.
So why would it be? Why would people know what to

(01:26:24):
do? And I think that's kind of
awesome. Like to have that level of a
flex when that would be like John Carpenter only say like the
only slasher rules you can ever follow are the rules I laid out
in Halloween. And yes, I know black Christmas
and psycho and peeping Tom, but it's Halloween kicked off the
boom. OK, 100%.
I mean it is a. Flex but.

(01:26:45):
Then at the same time, that means now every single movie we
have to have a scene where it's we have to explain you got to
shoot them in the head to kill them.
You can't kill them this way. We have to literally do that
every single movie because of nobody's knowledge of zombies.
So, I mean, yeah, flex away, George.
I guess the fact that we're evenasking that question.

(01:27:06):
Goes to show the extent to whichScream had such an influence on
horror, because the big conceit of Scream is what if these
characters had actually seen a horror movie before and like
understood the rules? Like, so I mean, the fact that
that becomes the meta horror aspect kind of becomes the norm
and that Romero's kind of breaking away from that.
The fact that we're like, have these guys seen Night of the

(01:27:28):
Living Dead? And he's like, fuck no.
Well, you see a little bit of that though.
You see a little bit of. That in like the filmmaking at
the beginning of the movie when they're like, why would this
move fast? It should move slow.
And why does the femme fatale's like dress always fall open like
right at the right spot so her breasts are falling out.
So you see him trying to add that level of meta to it that

(01:27:51):
Scream had done and not really succeeding.
Where is like, you know, I'm re watching all the Friday the 13th
movies because I just feel like it.
And you get to part 6. No, they're just.
They're fun, I mean. Every single one of them is fun.
I said this when we cover the series or like the five guys of
franchises and that like it's isit the best burger ever?

(01:28:12):
No, but every single one of themit's consistent.
You get to Jason Lives Part 6 and Tom, the Goughlin script is
filled with stuff like that. Like at 1.2 characters and
counter Jason when they're in their car, they're like, we need
to turn around. I've seen enough horror movies
to know how this is going to go.And then like, there's like an
American Express card floating after a kill.

(01:28:34):
And he's like, I knew every timesomeone watch that an audience
member would yell don't leave home without.
Like, so you get like a level ofMeadow filmmaking or even like a
decade before Scream, you know, Friday the 13th movie, which is
a lot of fun. I don't know.
Do we have anything else here onDiary of the Dead or are we?

(01:28:55):
I just need to make sure I shoutout.
Tatiana Maslany, who I referenced earlier.
She Hulk herself. She Hulk orphan.
Blue or orphan? Black like just again kind of
the actress yes and and Osgood Perkins is the mummy or the
monkey Mummy is the thing in this movie.
Sorry, no, she's just a phenomenal actress.
And the fact that that Romero kills her off so quickly leads

(01:29:18):
me to believe that he didn't quite know what he had here.
But yeah, I think, I think we. Hit most of it.
I not going to lie, I kind of forgot how this movie ended
because I got distracted. Me and Rocco were debating the
movie together on Instagram, so I kind of got more distracted by
that because I kind of was not locked into this movie.

(01:29:40):
So I kind of take so hard to believe you.
Weren't locked in here. Devon.
Yeah, right. Easy, huh?
Yeah, so it's like, I don't evenreally know how the movie ended,
but it was kind of, doesn't it all I.
Remember, is yet like that. What was up with that, that
final scene with the the All American Joes?
What was that? Whenever she's like showing them

(01:30:01):
like, you know, like these two like hit guys, like, you know,
like torturing, torturing these zombies and like, you know,
like, you know, taking Glee and the killing and then she goes,
is humanity worth saving? What was that all about?
Well, that feels like a very tonight.
Like just he does see the enemy and he is yes, yeah, he in each
movie. The mob, when they return, gets

(01:30:24):
less and less humane, like in Night of the Living Dead.
Yes, they kill Ben at the end, but that's accidental.
Like they don't know that he's not a zombie.
And then by the time you get to dawn, the mob is like taking
much more. It's almost like a grand day
out. Like they're drinking beer and
there's fun music playing and you get to hear.
And it's definitely, oh, these are good old boy rednecks at

(01:30:46):
this point. So you definitely see him.
I said this in another episode, like I think Romero is someone
who loved people but hated humanity.
He definitely has a bleak view of humanity.
And also it did feel like a verydab way to end.
You could see her putting that in and being like, all right,

(01:31:06):
point made, gonna win me a Spirit Award.
You know I'm trying to scare youand here's.
How I do it? Well, all right, we only have
one more. Romero movie, then the Night of
the Living Dead remake and then date and then Dawn of the Dead
remake. And then let's talk a little bit
about what's coming up. So before we pitch, you know,

(01:31:27):
what projects are working on. We're coming up in episode 300,
which is really humbling. And part of me wants to make a
big deal of it. And part of me thinks we should
just kind of let it happen. We didn't really do anything.
We got to five years. I think we had a little chat.
But, you know, not many shows make it past 30 episodes, let

(01:31:50):
alone 300. So what we're going to do is we
are going to do like a mega episode where Steven is going to
rank every guest we've ever had on in terms of what he thinks of
them. And he had some unkind words to
say for some of them. And buckle up.
No, what we're going to do is might just chucking me under.
The bus this episode, what we'regoing to do is we are going to

(01:32:11):
do. The top 25 horror movies of this
century. So the team has a list.
We're going to be doing our rankings.
I'll be tabulating the votes. I think I'm going to invite some
of our fellow podcasters and writers and friends to just kind
of weigh in with their votes andthen we'll do the episode.

(01:32:31):
But that will come on, I think after Survival of the the Dead.
That should be the 300th episodeor no, I'm sorry, after the Dawn
of the Dead remake, that will beour 300th.
So I, I gave the wrong episode number earlier.
I am not going to fix that in post because I don't have time
for that shit. But yeah, I mean to to.

(01:32:53):
Pull back the curtain for you guys, the Slack channel.
There was much debate on what episodes counted towards the
count. And I was just like, I just, I
was just like, I just want to get to it as fast as possible.
So however we counted to where we get to 300.
The quickest. Works for me.
So whatever that is, yeah, 300 episodes.
The only thing I took out the. Only thing I took out were like

(01:33:15):
patron snippets. So if we had like a 15 minute
patron preview, I did delete those because I don't think
those count as an episode, but miniature episodes or we just
did brief interviews or whatnot.We counted as an episode.
But yeah, that'll be 300. We thank our listeners for the
ones that the real ones that have been with us from day one.

(01:33:36):
We really appreciate you. I really appreciate my Co host
for again putting up with me because I am a lot.
I am a lot to deal with and thisteam is amazing, all of them.
Who among us? My incredible who?
Among us is not a lot. So.
That will be coming, Yvonne. Had a really good idea for like

(01:33:56):
a screen draft style episode maybe.
And I think we haven't talked about it, but I will now and say
maybe we do like a franchise ranking episode this Halloween
where we do like a draft of the franchises.
So we have some time to put thattogether, and we basically just
shamelessly steal the format of someone who's much more

(01:34:16):
successful than us. But that's so OK.
Yeah. You know, 41 franchises by the
end of the year. Mike, we call that a homage.
Mike Yeah. Come on now.
Are you paying homage to screen drafts?
No. There's no sorts of, there's no
stealing. Right in here, yeah.
Good artist borrow, great artiststealing, Yeah.
I just read a book on the. History of Lollapalooza and to
quote Jane's addiction. Been caught stealing.

(01:34:38):
You know, it's all right. All right, Steven.
Yeah. What do you have coming up in
the world? Well, we're still working on.
Disenfranchised. We're I don't know well past 200
episodes at this point, you know, following ever in your
footsteps, Mike toward 300. But no, we've got we've got a
fun month. August is got some good stuff.
Honestly, I'm very excited. We're going to be covering

(01:34:59):
Sergeant Kabuki Minh NYPD for the release of toxic avenger
whenever that comes out. And we're going to it's I think
our 200 and this episode may be coming up soon.
So we're going to do Twin Peaks fire walk with me at the end of
the month to round out our fifthseason, 5 full years of that
very silly podcast called the disenfranchised podcast with Jim

(01:35:23):
Rayner and James McCormick, formerly of the cast of Cthulhu,
a good friends of the show as well.
And then on Wells University, our we're finally into the work
capital, TV capital W work. And we just recorded an episode
that will drop sometime in, I think late August about the book
that Wells put out called Everybody Shakespeare.

(01:35:45):
So we got to talk about The Merchant of Venice and 12th
Knight and Julius Caesar. And then we'll talk very soon
about Hearts of Age, his very first short film.
So lots of good stuff coming down the pipeline there for
sure. Excellent.
And Devon? How about yourself?
We also hit some. Milestones, I just hit 250
episodes on Spectre Cinema Club.We did the Terminator for the

(01:36:08):
250th episode, a super fun and right now we are doing suburban
horror. And so we just did an episode on
Get out that's coming out this week as well as we doing the
month for weapons. We got to go to the the fancy
premiere for that. That was a good time.
So that's gonna be a fun episode, but you can hear me
over on Tainted Love every otherWednesday talking horror about

(01:36:31):
sex, romance, relationships. We did a little shallow moment
with the forbidden photos of a lady above suspicion and we are
coming up on at Necromantic 2 returning to that world.
And I even forget to plug this on my show.
Me and my friends, we did our first DND live play nice and we

(01:36:51):
just started releasing those episodes.
So those episodes, we premiere them live on YouTube and Twitch
every Wednesday on a spell wastewasted productions.
It is a little swashbuckling pirate adventure.
It's a this is a nine part mini series.
And so those go up every Wednesday and they're super fun
because I've always wanted to domore with a like I'm a bagel DND

(01:37:17):
nerd as well behind the scenes. Again, I think that also plays
into like my zombie scenarios. I think I let my DND brain creep
in while I think about handling these horror scenarios, so you
can find me at all the usual places at under score.
Daddy Disco one of my classmatesfrom high school.
Loved D&D, like they actually invited me one night to like a

(01:37:39):
sleepover where they did like their Call of Cthulhu game and I
and they took it very serious. And me being me, I did not.
And I did the whole, the whole game as like our history teacher
who had a very distinct voice and mannerisms and also did a
lot of impersonations of RichardNixon.
So I played my character as thatand I was not invited back to

(01:38:05):
play during COVID. Like, I mean, that's just,
that's just good role play. I don't.
Know. Yeah, well, it was I think more
you. Know I don't think it was
anything like we hate you now but just things didn't work out
but he's like gone on to be one of the head honchos at Dungeons
and Dragons like he's one of theIT edits all the manuals and
overseas the editions like during Kovid what I mentioned

(01:38:28):
online. I think we followed each other
on Twitter or Facebook. I'm like, I would like to start
doing this in. He reached out and sent me like
every edition, like all the updates and I need to like get
into this like it would be a lotof fun.
I've done like basic stuff like Monster of the week, which is
easy to pick up, but I would really like to start playing

(01:38:49):
D&D. So, Yvonne, I have to know
what's your? What's your class of choice in
D&D? So so for.
The for the live Let's play, I play as a monk called a wind
warrior uses his key to manipulate wind and things like
that. He's a a 17 year old to backseat

(01:39:10):
that's a cat person. But but we since I'm about to
move, we're doing like a a last like a kind of battle Royale
session for our group that we'vebeen playing for like 3 years
together of this like same campaign.
So this is like the one like we're like real deep in with
these characters. And he is a subclass rogue as

(01:39:33):
well as a blade singer. So he's like how like an
acrobatic swordsman, but also uses magic and rogi type of
abilities. He's a former assassin, reformed
murderer or he does not murder. Now he's reformed, he's a former
assassin, but not not anymore. Yeah.
For some reason I had you peggedas a.

(01:39:53):
Bard like I've played as a Bard before, but I'm.
Not the most theatrical person in my group play with.
I play with like all people thatare like actors.
I'm not an actor. I'm a writer, director person.
So I gotcha. I specialize in battle listeners
and things like that. Yeah, but anyways.
DND fun times, no listeners. Thanks so much.

(01:40:14):
For tuning in, you can follow usat pod of the pendulum.com pod
and Pendulum over on Blue Sky and Instagram.
Follow me at Mike under score Snoonian over on Blue Sky.
And we'll be back next week withthe last ever George Romero
movie, Survival of the Dead. Yeah, it's a movie and that's

(01:40:37):
really about it. We have a few more left in our
summer of George. Until then, have a great week.
Thanks for listening and we'll see you then.
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